third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]

Fri Nov 2 08:29:14 PST 2001

Hello Baran,

We have had a few rounds about this very subject and many of it's
derivations.  One derivation being "would we even install equipment sold by
others?".  Many of us expressed no desire to do that.  Too many problems
with design, liability after the install, and the one that really matters
(to me anyway and I've been doing this for over 10 years), total job profit.
 Just making wages installing other peoples sale is a great way to go out of
business.  It's pretty hard to show up to $20K+ of equipment and customer
who was told "a good installer can do it in one day".  Then be expected to
show up and trouble shoot any equipment that fails for free.  If you had
made the margin off the equipment then it's expected that you do that.  

It does seem like several of the mail order folks on this list stated that
they made every effort to refer those people to local installers.  Yet, I
have had several folks come visit my shop with catalogues from those very
same mail order people whom they had talked to several times and had never
mentioned that there was a local installer nearby, even after the customer
requested local help.  Several of them claiming to be distributors only who
promise not to sell to end users.  Clearly there is some issues regarding
Wrenches vs. the Catalogues still and probably always will be.

Historically, I have generally liked the Power Panel and I agree it does
shave some drawbacks.  From memory most of the installers didn't like the PP
at all as it next to impossible to install by yourself and the DC175/250 box
is too small for anything but a very basic system.  I do really like the
inverter bypass switch even for off grid use as they do allow you to run off
the generator should you loose an inverter.  And don't forget it is a UL
listed assembly that might pass inspection quicker than your field assembled
components.

With the arrival of the Outback stuff my use of the Power Panel may reduce. 
I have yet to use any since I heard of them though.  I plan to use their
stuff on the next job I do but who knows when that will be.  Doing most
commercial lighting these days and unless a solar job falls in my lap I'm
not looking for any.  We currently have well over 1 million sq. ft of
lighting to upgrade which equates to at least 4 months of work inside during
the winter.

Travis

----------
>From: Baran Galocy <livewire at c-zone.net>
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]
>Date: Fri, Nov 2, 2001, 9:16 AM
>

>Wrenches,
>
>I am seeking feedback from installers and making a request of the companies
>for whom I install pv systems.
>
>I am often sought out by pv sales outfits as an installer for a sale that
>was made in my service area.   The systems most always uses a Trace Power
>Panel as the core.  This practice of selling owner/builders power panels
>seems to be ubiquitous.  I can only speculate that these devices have a nice
>margin of profit for the sales rep. (duh!) and it is easier to spec. out a
>power panel rather than an inverter, DC250, charge controller, etc.  The
>problem is that the Trace Power Panel is not a one-size-fits-all solution.
>I have had to remove devices from the steel backing for installation on a
>job because the p.p. wouldn't fit.  The sales people are not following
>through asking the right questions about location, and letting the customer
>know just how ungainly these are.  They also limit my clients' choice
>(whether or not my client knows it at the time of purchase) by coming
>pre-installed with non-MPPT charge controllers, switching boxes that will
>never be used off-the-grid, and various lengths of 4/0 wire and metal flex
>that have little bearing on the real world.
>
>Fellow wrenches - what say you?  Do you prefer the power panels or
>assembling the components yourself?  I, for one, prefer a choice.
>
>Sales reps - Your input, please.  I know that some of you sell to people who
>don't  even know the panels go "blue side up", and the power panel saves a
>multitude of sins.  On the other hand, my request would be for you to ask
>the person for local input, especially if you feel that they will be looking
>for help before this whole project is through.    You may sell the system,
>but I am the person who gets to marry the system.  I'm wedded to all me
>installations - when people have a problem, they call me.  I am always happy
>to work time and material as a consultant / installer for any client of any
>sales person.  No, I won't try to sell them something instead of you - I
>could do that about once before getting black listed.  What I guess I am
>asking is for the clients' needs to be placed ahead of commissions - all
>things being equal.  When I am not included in the equipment choosing
>process, I am generally forced to make chicken salad out of chicken poo -
>the old square peg in the round hole complaint.  I also hate seeing a client
>receive bits and pieces of wire, flex, etc. that they will never use, but
>must still pay for.
>
>If this is an old or well-beaten subject, you need not respond.  I would
>enjoy a consensus, however.
>
>Namaste - Baran Galocy DBA HelioElectric
>
>- - - -
>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
>Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
>
>List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
>
>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
>
>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>
>

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email To: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================