*&^% Subsidies (was Proposed Changes to C.E.C. rebates in California) [RE

[Joel Davidson]

I agree with you and Bill. I just have a different perspective. All the rules
and licenses and safer installations have not helped PV grow as much as lower
prices. Sure, we must strive to make PV safer. We must teach others how to do PV
safer. We must report and stop people who are unsafe. But shadetree mechanics
and shoddy installations are not holding PV back from full commercialization.
Solar module high prices are holding PV back. A little of the pioneer in me dies
with each new rule, each new regulation, every added cost. The new people
flooding the industry need the freedom to try new ideas. Evolution is scary.


"Allan Sindelar, Positive Energy, Inc." wrote:

> > I welcome the new people flooding the industry. Evolution works.
>
> Warning: Rant: ON:
> Joel,
>     On this one I think you're way off the mark. In New Mexico we see poorly
> installed systems on a regular basis. There's nothing we can do to stop bad
> installers, whether they're licensed or not. Most people shop price. Thank
> God our reputation for quality is growing, as we refuse to waste our time
> competing on price. We're getting more and more who appreciate our quality.
> We're way more expensive than some "installers" around here anyway.
>
>     This is a technical field being sold to the average Joe Sixpak who
> hasn't a clue how to evaluate the installation. I don't like being the
> technician called in two years later on a system that can't keep up with
> what was promised, and have to find delicate ways of saying to the owner
> that he was sold an expensive bill of goods because of third-rate
> installation..."Oh, and by the way, I'll spend the time with you to analyze
> your phantom loads, multiwire branch circuits, multiple code violations,
> etc., at $60/hour including travel time, but I won't correct them for you
> unless we completely rebuild your system to our standards and get it
> inspected. It'll cost about $4-5K for us to do that, top-of-the-head.
> Otherwise, sir, we won't take on the liability of touching your system"...
>
>     Joel, this isn't theoretical. I'm describing a situation that really
> happened 3 weeks ago, a referral to a friend of one of our clients. And I
> was returning from a job we had just rebuilt, to the tune of $15K including
> new Surrettes, inverter and voltage upgrade to 24V, for another client of
> the same "installer" (I'm close to naming names here--it's a well-known Taos
> dealer).
>
>     Locally we've got a licensed electrical contractor who's been doing PV
> around here for years who we rant about for shoddy and unsafe work. We have
> twice corrected parallel ground paths on AC generators he's wired in. We see
> the same consistent mistakes when we see his work on service calls. He's
> very threatened by us, but what do we do? We correct what we can, turn some
> of these calls down, try to stay above it, but no customer wants to pay
> twice for work, especially when they didn't know that what they had was
> unsafe or just didn't work like it could.
>
> >Bad installations by licensed or unlicensed contractors
> > that are either bootlegged or permitted, can be indentified and dealt with
> in
> > various ways.
>  I'd like to hear your ideas how this can be done.
>
>     California looks like a nightmare waiting to happen, especially if
> subsidies start bringing every fast-buck solar salesman in because it's
> easier than used cars or mutual funds. There are nowhere near enough
> skilled, experienced installers to handle the demand with daily rolling
> blackouts. You will see a lot of poor work or I owe you a bunch of brews.
>
>     Answers: I dunno. Independent, third-party evaluation of each system
> before rebates, without industry kickbacks. Subsidies that increase in
> percentage each year, then diminish to 0 or 10 or 15%, so no upheavals like
> the last round. IPP or somebody's certification. Some sort of structure to
> review poor work so quick buckers are sent packing.
>
>     And manufacturers can design grid-tie systems for installers, but not
> standalone systems.
>
> Rant: OFF
>
> Allan at Positive Energy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel Davidson" <joeldavidson at earthlink.net>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Proposed Changes to C.E.C. rebates in California [RE-wrenches]
>
> > Of course, we are concerned about quality and sleeze bags. Our concern is
> a
> > continuing thread in almost all conversations among PV professionals. One
> reason
> > solar thermal got out of hand is poor policing. I believe that when a
> > responsible person sees bad design, installation, equipment, business
> practices,
> > then it is his or her responsibility to do something to improve the
> situation.
> > That's why I always try to convert general grumblings into specifics. So
> > specifically,
> > 1. Bad design is often the result of module and inverter manufacturers who
> > refuse to take responsibility and provide good designs for their products.
> Not
> > all manufacturers are guilty. For example, Siemens recently designed their
> > Earthsafe system.
> > 2. Installations will improve when installers collaborate. Some people may
> > believe that installation problems are endemic and seek blanket solutions.
> I do
> > not like one-size-fits-all so-called solutions. I prefer to deal with
> problems
> > on a case by case basis.
> > 3. If anyone knows of any equipment with real problems, please share this
> > information.
> >
>
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