third Party Installations/PPC's [RE-wrenches]

[Chris Daum]

Dear Wrenches:

We offer a service a lot like Jeff's at Dunimis Technology.  Part of our 
mark up on components (which is not the "typical" low-baller dot-com deal! 
 --at least, not from what I hear) pays for the basic wiring diagrams that 
any reasonable electrician can follow.  If the folks installing have no 
previous experience, we insist that we'll work with their electrician, 
contractor, installer--someone who knows the basic guts of DC and AC 
electricity.  Even though we are a "net-based" business, we do not "match 
or beat" other dot-comers--we just say--"that's a great deal, but if you 
buy this from them, and want us to trouble shoot it, you're out of luck". 
 Or they can send us a check for trouble-shooting.  It's AMAZING how much 
we CAN solve over the phone.  And scary how many folks with installed 
systems don't even own a multi-meter. We also do a fair amount of 
trouble-shooting for folks with existing systems.  (As a side issue for 
future discussion, how about this "certified Trace dealer stuff?  I've 
already heard of some BAD stuff from a "certified dealer"  from a customer 
of his....).

The original topic, though, was power panel centers.  We spec a lot of off 
grid systems, and, since we cannot install through sheer geography  (all 
that we sell), they do fill a niche.  If folks aren't concerned about the 
last nickel, we do spec these in perhaps 30% to 40% of the gen/verter 
systems we propose (these are off-grid).  Remote resorts with big fuel 
generators are a good market for us.  I don't like to sell generators 
(being fuel-gobbling, smelly mechanical beasts) but they serve a purpose in 
the right situation.  We are very clear as to the fact the Trace PPC's are 
a truck freight item and it takes a few folks to hang 'em on the wall--and 
we are very clear as to the geographics of battery installation, proper 
ventilation of the battery box, etc., etc. and we do have to "beat up" 
folks on wire sizing from time to time, when the distances between the DC 
power sources and batteries become too great ("Oh, we decided to put the 
array here...."), as well as battery maintenance--you know--THE BASICS. 
 When you CAN'T see the site you have to rely on what the customer tells 
you; but you also have to ask the right questions.  I think we have become 
very proficient in doing that.

No far, NO bitchin on any of the systems we have out there.  My actual 
local installations (locally, here in Montana) tend to be remote power 
systems, usually utilizing DR or UX inverters; small and quick and easy. 
 Montana in not a wealthy state (47th, I believe, in per capita 
income....followed by Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi, as I recall).  So 
folks living off grid here are happy to have a radio, TV or occasional 
water pump.  Simple load crunching and happy customers.

Some of you wrenching snobs on this list (you know who you are!) need to 
know what a wonderful resource this list is for those who only do a few 
installations--no, installations may not be our bread and butter, but your 
wonderful technical advice improves the quality of installations, service 
and customer happiness for all.

Isn't that worth it?  If you're not making enough for installations, maybe 
it's time to vote yourself a pay increase.  Here in Montana, I want $15 an 
hour--plus drive time--but if I were in any other state, I'd want $50 an 
hour.  Or maybe more, depending on the situation, and the installation you 
were troubleshooting.  When I deal with a customer with an existing system, 
my pricing of components is based on the amount of time I'll be spending 
with him/her.  And if they're a pain in the derriere, and the system 
incompetently installed, you can bet the price will go up.

Just my two cents worth!!!!

Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4321 or 4309
406-777-2632  fax
http://www.oasismontana.com


-----Original Message-----
From:	Jeff Yago [SMTP:jryago at earthlink.net]
Sent:	Sunday, November 04, 2001 6:22 AM
To:	RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject:	RE: third Party Installations [RE-wrenches]

We have very strong system design support and sell custom "packaged 
systems"
to our clients.  Our sell price includes up front fees for site visit to
select equipment locations, system design, and quotation based on several
different options to help client fit into their budget.

We use as much pre-wired panels and switchgear we can fit into the design 
to
avoid field wiring.  Our fee also includes a very professional prepared set
of wiring diagrams that any licensed electrician can follow.  Our quotation
also includes full phone support during the installation and a second site
visit when the install is complete to verify proper connections and to
program inverter and charge controllers.  (Complex systems may include 
added
site visits if needed.)

However, we do not do the actual installation!.  We advise client that we
will work with a licensed electrician in their area who is providing the
actual equipment installation.  Since we have provided pre-wired electrical
panels, factory made pre-drilled mounting hardware for the modules, we are
using the electrician for his skills, not his "solar" experience.  We have
completed many installations that the electrician did not know what he was
installing or how it worked.

A good commercial electrician usually has already installed many transfer
switches, generator sub-panels, and can follow a simple wiring diagram that
shows what wire to use, where to mount the equipment, and can do it
according to the NEC.

I know many solar dealers may provide their own installation work, but we
have found a market that works for us and our clients, and end up with a
future "local" technical contact available to respond to basic service
issues for us.

Jeff Yago
Dunimis Technology Inc.

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com
<A HREF=" http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9 ">
AOL users click here.</A>

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================