From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Who Else [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.1923921821-212058698-943464636@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.19991124094839.00ba4300@mail.mindspring.com> At 09:30 AM 11/24/1999 -0800, Steve Hicks wrote:
   I'd like to see the list stay just the way it is.
Do-it-yourselfers have Home Power to turn to and their
existing dealers.  I have been burned too many times
over the years providing free consulting advice to the
feeloaders.

Hi Steve,

The problem is, "just the way it is" has not been adequately defined. As list manager, I am not clear on who should be able to sign up.

We certainly don't want to include casual do-it-yourselfers, but at what level do we say somebody becomes a legitimate wrench? I have amateur friends that have installed more systems than some of the newer storefront RE dealers. The same friends have done a better job at these installations than some "pro" installations I've seen.

And we need to address the important question of folks doing tech support on phones as opposed to the employees out in the field. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Earth Day Plans? [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.1381627290-951758591-951844911@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229093119.00a73100@pop.mindspring.com> Hi Wally

At 09:21 AM 02/29/2000 -0800, you wrote:
 
I am planning on taking  my Solar energy trailer to the Earth Day event in downtown San Luis Obispo for show and tell, as well as powering up the stage.

The catch is I am still working on it and not sure which inverter to go with as far as avoiding audio buzz goes.  I am sitting on a  U2512 ( a buzz box ) and a 24v XP1100.  So I am torn between  capacity and sine wave quality. I am willing to install a SW in it but curious if it is noise free in ALL sound systems.  Any negative encounters out there with the SW and stage equipment?

I have used and seen used the SW series several times for small sound stages. First two times got a heck of a buzz which was corrected by sinking a ground rod and attaching it to the SW ground lug. Now I sink the ground rod as a matter of course, with nary a problem.

The solar crew used SWs (two 5548s and two 4024s) at the Hog Farm's Pignic for several years, but switched over to an 12 kw Exeltech MX (and a 20 ton truck nearly full of batteries). The SWs performed well, but were too big to haul around and install easily, and the Exeltech gave us power that was cleaner.

One thing to be prepared for: generally sound people do not trust RE, they are afraid it will hurt their equipment and sound bad. You may have to prove to them that the power quality and voltage level is sufficient for what they want to do. For that reason, avoid anything that will buzz, and be very careful to over-size the inverter a bit.

I suspect the Prosine would be the best for capacity and waveform but want to become more intimate with the day to day reality of the SW as it is most prevalent.

One idea is for you to put together a small rolling  system on a cart, wheelbarrow, or pickup truck and let folks see how easy (hee hee) it is to turn sunlight into 120 volts.

We built such a little wagon for the Oregon Country Fair's Energy Park, and used it to power an electric band one night. Northern Tools has a great "Big Red Wagon" that we used, it will easily handle the weight of 6-8 T105s and a big inverter. Heart donated the mod sine inverter, and it worked great --as long as the band kept playing and didn't take a break, you could not hear the buzz. Mostly the cart was used for construction at the fair, and not powering electronics. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Transformer T240 [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.1985800093-951758591-953839000@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000323114353.00a421b0@pop.mindspring.com> At 11:16 AM 03/23/2000 -0800, you wrote:
 
2) the Trace T240 is rated for 3900 watts continously. You're pushing its limits with a 4600 watt generator.

I'd recommend a larger generator (6 kw) min. At least you'd have 20 minimum available amps for household loads if the Trace charger were operating at maximum ouput of 30 amps([6000 watts /120 vac] - 30 = 20 amps). You'll have to use a larger transformer for step down than the T240. Call me if you're interested in finding a source.

AEE has "Autotransformers" in NEMA 1 enclosures, 98% efficient, <0.2% no load idle loss, quiet. 2.5, 4, & 8 kw. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Explorer Products? [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.478022027-212058698-953861804@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000323181933.00a68ec0@pop.mindspring.com> At 05:36 PM 03/23/2000 -0800, Bob wrote:
 
It seems like Sunfrost would rather have orders backed up for a year than to
take steps to increase production. To bad, I have lost at least 3 sales due
to the wait. One of the more efficient new fridges is the Jenn Air or the
Whirlpool models, or one of Dan Always chest refrigerators, they are as
efficient as a Sun Frost if you can get over it being a chest unit and he
will NOT give dealers a break on sales.

Sun Frost's lead times are down to around a month. In retrospect, it was probably a good idea for our community here and individual job security that Larry wasn't able to over-ramp for Y2K buy-mania.

Larry was advertising in the local paper for help for the last several months, and just recently took his ad out of the paper. I know that he was hurtin' and trying to find help for a long time. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Water Wheel hydro power? [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.701221092-951758591-955490070@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000411171401.00a8f6b0@pop.mindspring.com> At 02:54 PM 4/11/2000 -0700, you wrote:
 
Hi Gang,

Anybody have any experience with calculating power available from a hydro site when using the overshot water wheel?  I remember reading an article in an old Home Power, but I can't find the formula.

Thanks!
Wes Kennedy

There's a pretty good microhydro discussion list and the members seem very ready to help answer questions. Subscribe by sending a message to
microhydro-subscribe at eGroups.com From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Trace gridtied [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.21210213-951758591-955929317@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000417143319.00a692d0@pop.mindspring.com> At 04:55 PM 04/16/2000 -0700, sunwise at win.bright.net wrote:
 
Hey Sharkey,

I'd be interested in seeing that re-posted or send to me at
sunwise at win.bright.net.  I vaguely remember the previous discussion, but
was less focused on it back then.  Thanks -- Kurt

I don't mind seeing re-posts on stuff, but I want to remind everyone that all our previous messages are archived at http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/ From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: wrenches self promotion [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.464003981-212058698-956800537@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000427084619.00abec80@pop.mindspring.com> At 06:55 PM 04/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > I have had an idea! This may not be the appropriate place to make > this suggestion. But------------ What do the rest of you wrenchers > think about doing a combined advertisement in Home Power listing us on > one page, geographically listing our locations and the fact that we > install, service and sell, because we are wrenchers. This would give > readers of Home Power a convenient list (possibly found every issue in > a specific area of the magazine) for us! Maybe qualifying those > listed to ensure quality installers and building a reputation for this > list that may be respected by the industry. I would like to arrange > all of this, if there is an interest! Scott CarlsonCarlson Solar I would rather see you all join IPP and help give it the strength it needs to help do your bidding, which could include joint advertising and maybe even a more active referrall service. Advertising and marketing was not the original intention of this list, but what you all do with a communications forum like this is up to you (within reason, of course). From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Who Else [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.1923921821-212058698-943464636@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.19991124094839.00ba4300@mail.mindspring.com> At 09:30 AM 11/24/1999 -0800, Steve Hicks wrote:
   I'd like to see the list stay just the way it is.
Do-it-yourselfers have Home Power to turn to and their
existing dealers.  I have been burned too many times
over the years providing free consulting advice to the
feeloaders.

Hi Steve,

The problem is, "just the way it is" has not been adequately defined. As list manager, I am not clear on who should be able to sign up.

We certainly don't want to include casual do-it-yourselfers, but at what level do we say somebody becomes a legitimate wrench? I have amateur friends that have installed more systems than some of the newer storefront RE dealers. The same friends have done a better job at these installations than some "pro" installations I've seen.

And we need to address the important question of folks doing tech support on phones as opposed to the employees out in the field. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Earth Day Plans? [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.1381627290-951758591-951844911@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000229093119.00a73100@pop.mindspring.com> Hi Wally

At 09:21 AM 02/29/2000 -0800, you wrote:
 
I am planning on taking  my Solar energy trailer to the Earth Day event in downtown San Luis Obispo for show and tell, as well as powering up the stage.

The catch is I am still working on it and not sure which inverter to go with as far as avoiding audio buzz goes.  I am sitting on a  U2512 ( a buzz box ) and a 24v XP1100.  So I am torn between  capacity and sine wave quality. I am willing to install a SW in it but curious if it is noise free in ALL sound systems.  Any negative encounters out there with the SW and stage equipment?

I have used and seen used the SW series several times for small sound stages. First two times got a heck of a buzz which was corrected by sinking a ground rod and attaching it to the SW ground lug. Now I sink the ground rod as a matter of course, with nary a problem.

The solar crew used SWs (two 5548s and two 4024s) at the Hog Farm's Pignic for several years, but switched over to an 12 kw Exeltech MX (and a 20 ton truck nearly full of batteries). The SWs performed well, but were too big to haul around and install easily, and the Exeltech gave us power that was cleaner.

One thing to be prepared for: generally sound people do not trust RE, they are afraid it will hurt their equipment and sound bad. You may have to prove to them that the power quality and voltage level is sufficient for what they want to do. For that reason, avoid anything that will buzz, and be very careful to over-size the inverter a bit.

I suspect the Prosine would be the best for capacity and waveform but want to become more intimate with the day to day reality of the SW as it is most prevalent.

One idea is for you to put together a small rolling  system on a cart, wheelbarrow, or pickup truck and let folks see how easy (hee hee) it is to turn sunlight into 120 volts.

We built such a little wagon for the Oregon Country Fair's Energy Park, and used it to power an electric band one night. Northern Tools has a great "Big Red Wagon" that we used, it will easily handle the weight of 6-8 T105s and a big inverter. Heart donated the mod sine inverter, and it worked great --as long as the band kept playing and didn't take a break, you could not hear the buzz. Mostly the cart was used for construction at the fair, and not powering electronics. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Transformer T240 [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.1985800093-951758591-953839000@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000323114353.00a421b0@pop.mindspring.com> At 11:16 AM 03/23/2000 -0800, you wrote:
 
2) the Trace T240 is rated for 3900 watts continously. You're pushing its limits with a 4600 watt generator.

I'd recommend a larger generator (6 kw) min. At least you'd have 20 minimum available amps for household loads if the Trace charger were operating at maximum ouput of 30 amps([6000 watts /120 vac] - 30 = 20 amps). You'll have to use a larger transformer for step down than the T240. Call me if you're interested in finding a source.

AEE has "Autotransformers" in NEMA 1 enclosures, 98% efficient, <0.2% no load idle loss, quiet. 2.5, 4, & 8 kw. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Explorer Products? [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.478022027-212058698-953861804@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000323181933.00a68ec0@pop.mindspring.com> At 05:36 PM 03/23/2000 -0800, Bob wrote:
 
It seems like Sunfrost would rather have orders backed up for a year than to
take steps to increase production. To bad, I have lost at least 3 sales due
to the wait. One of the more efficient new fridges is the Jenn Air or the
Whirlpool models, or one of Dan Always chest refrigerators, they are as
efficient as a Sun Frost if you can get over it being a chest unit and he
will NOT give dealers a break on sales.

Sun Frost's lead times are down to around a month. In retrospect, it was probably a good idea for our community here and individual job security that Larry wasn't able to over-ramp for Y2K buy-mania.

Larry was advertising in the local paper for help for the last several months, and just recently took his ad out of the paper. I know that he was hurtin' and trying to find help for a long time. From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Water Wheel hydro power? [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.701221092-951758591-955490070@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000411171401.00a8f6b0@pop.mindspring.com> At 02:54 PM 4/11/2000 -0700, you wrote:
 
Hi Gang,

Anybody have any experience with calculating power available from a hydro site when using the overshot water wheel?  I remember reading an article in an old Home Power, but I can't find the formula.

Thanks!
Wes Kennedy

There's a pretty good microhydro discussion list and the members seem very ready to help answer questions. Subscribe by sending a message to
microhydro-subscribe at eGroups.com From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: Trace gridtied [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.21210213-951758591-955929317@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000417143319.00a692d0@pop.mindspring.com> At 04:55 PM 04/16/2000 -0700, sunwise at win.bright.net wrote:
 
Hey Sharkey,

I'd be interested in seeing that re-posted or send to me at
sunwise at win.bright.net.  I vaguely remember the previous discussion, but
was less focused on it back then.  Thanks -- Kurt

I don't mind seeing re-posts on stuff, but I want to remind everyone that all our previous messages are archived at http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/ From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Aug 10 12:45:57 2026 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 16:45:57 -0000 Subject: wrenches self promotion [RE-wrenches] In-Reply-To: <0.1300002502.464003981-212058698-956800537@topica.com> Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000427084619.00abec80@pop.mindspring.com> At 06:55 PM 04/26/2000 -0700, you wrote: > I have had an idea! This may not be the appropriate place to make > this suggestion. But------------ What do the rest of you wrenchers > think about doing a combined advertisement in Home Power listing us on > one page, geographically listing our locations and the fact that we > install, service and sell, because we are wrenchers. This would give > readers of Home Power a convenient list (possibly found every issue in > a specific area of the magazine) for us! Maybe qualifying those > listed to ensure quality installers and building a reputation for this > list that may be respected by the industry. I would like to arrange > all of this, if there is an interest! Scott CarlsonCarlson Solar I would rather see you all join IPP and help give it the strength it needs to help do your bidding, which could include joint advertising and maybe even a more active referrall service. Advertising and marketing was not the original intention of this list, but what you all do with a communications forum like this is up to you (within reason, of course). From gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com Thu Jan 1 12:14:31 2026 From: gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com (Jim Gowdy) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2026 09:14:31 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] kilovault 2400 HLX Lithium Battery Charging..... In-Reply-To: References: <2A00ADB2-065B-487D-BEA1-1ACE997D25DC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all the input. I'm going to the client's house today and see what he's got. On Wed, Dec 31, 2025 at 12:08 PM Starlight via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Darryl, Quote: "When a cell in the battery reaches full charge the > circuit bypasses that cell” > > Not exactly. The BMS balance circuit reduces current (example 300ma) to > any cell that has reached the balance voltage setting (example 3.55v) while > other lower SoC cells in series continue charging. > > If a cell reaches the over voltage protection limit (about 3.8V for LFP), > the BMS will disable all current flow. All batteries in series with this > battery will stop charging due to the open circuit BMS. This can quickly > cause a series battery bank to become out of balance. A battery balancer > like Victron is very effective in preventing this. > > > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Power Systems > > > > On Dec 31, 2025, at 11:30 AM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I hope I am responding correctly. Each battery has a built-in circuit > that is called a top balancer. When a cell in the battery reaches full > charge the circuit bypasses that cell with a top balance current making the > whole battery drop to that top balance current. any battery connected in > series with that battery is forced to that current, such that it will have > to charge at the top balance current of the first battery to go to top > balance current. best thing is to use a 48 volt lithium battery. If you > must use these batteries use a good battery balancer, Victron is the best > but still not as a 48 volt battery. > > On Wed, Dec 31, 2025 at 12:01 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> >> Hi jim >> >> As you have 4 battereis in series, you should use balancing devices >> between them. The kilovaukt are very susceptible to getting out of balance >> between batteries. >> >> I had to work with a customer to fix his kilovault battereis. Numerous >> failures which was traced back to broken balancers. >> >> Victron make good ones. >> >> Jay >> >> >> > On Dec 30, 2025, at 9:39 PM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> > >> >  >> > Does anyone have any experience with the Kilovault 2400 HLX 12v >> batteries. I have a customer that wants to hook up a generator to his >> system and go over programming on an outback system. I looked up this >> battery company and they don't have a website and their phone number didn't >> work so I assume the company is out of business. I found a manual and the >> specs state that the bulk charge time is 2 minutes per battery I assume. >> I'm still a rookie and learning the proper charging parameters for >> different kinds of batteries so any help would be appreciated. He hasn't >> given me much info, but apparently there are...... >> > -8 batteries on a 48v system. I assume the batteries are 2 strings of >> 4 batteries. >> > >> > -Outback FXR 30/48 inverter >> > >> > -Outback FM Charge Controller. He didn't say what size, but the >> assumption is 80a >> > >> > -MATE 3 controller >> > >> > -Solar....not known at the moment >> > >> > -Gasoline powered 120v output portable generator.....KW is unknown at >> the moment. *I don't like this, but it's what the customer bought. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jim with Gowdy Electric >> > Cambria, Ca 93428 >> > business 805 927 2630 >> > cell 805 975 5279 >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Jim with Gowdy Electric Cambria, Ca 93428 business 805 927 2630 cell 805 975 5279 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 14:31:37 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2026 12:31:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LFP storage Message-ID: <16B95724-199F-49F1-8D32-8D338338A035@gmail.com> Hi all I’m wondering what the consensus is on storing LFP battereis like for a lightly used RV. A customer was asking me and I just don’t have a solid answer. Some companies say drain to 50% Others say it’s ok to charge to full, just don’t keep them on a charger. For example if you have a lightly used stand alone system that’s full every day for many hours, it would seem that’s just like charging up to full but keeping it in float. Thanks in advance Jay From larry at starlightsolar.com Sat Jan 3 11:15:19 2026 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (Starlight) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2026 09:15:19 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LFP storage In-Reply-To: <16B95724-199F-49F1-8D32-8D338338A035@gmail.com> References: <16B95724-199F-49F1-8D32-8D338338A035@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Jay, We have been in the Li-ion battery business for 13 years. I can share our experience with our LiFeBlue brand and also with GBS cells. In our shop we have LFP test cells that have been sitting disconnected for over 7 years. Each time we test these, the capacity loss is negligible. Some are stored at 50%, some at 100% SoC. There are other factors I wont get into but the longevity is remarkable. Our recommend storage method for periods over 30 days is to establish about a 50% SoC (about 13.2V) and disconnect the battery. Make sure it’s full disconnected as a small load can drain over 4kWh per month. When ready for use, recharge fully for cell balancing and to calibrate the internal SoC meter. Some customers use batteries in a UPS configuration for radio systems backup. The voltage is fixed at 14.2V. The cells are only discharged during a power outage. Some of these systems are over a decade old. Our RV and Marine batteries are often left on float charge of 13.8V while being stored for many months. The downside of this is if the charger malfunctions you might over-discharge the battery. This could be difficult to recover if left in a full discharge state. If you’re going to disconnect the battery, be sure to check it occasionally as some batteries have a high self discharge rate. Our brand has a hibernate mode after 15 days of non use. Current drops to 5uA. Let me know if I covered it all. Thank you, Larry Crutcher Starlight Power Systems On Jan 2, 2026, at 12:31 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi all I’m wondering what the consensus is on storing LFP battereis like for a lightly used RV. A customer was asking me and I just don’t have a solid answer. Some companies say drain to 50% Others say it’s ok to charge to full, just don’t keep them on a charger. For example if you have a lightly used stand alone system that’s full every day for many hours, it would seem that’s just like charging up to full but keeping it in float. Thanks in advance Jay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 14:34:25 2026 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2026 13:34:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LFP storage In-Reply-To: <16B95724-199F-49F1-8D32-8D338338A035@gmail.com> References: <16B95724-199F-49F1-8D32-8D338338A035@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have some experience. I have a customer that had a parasitic load on for 3 years, I warned him, now he wants to use the battery and it is dead and I can not get them to recharge, Another customer with the same battery has had them on float, at 80% of full charge voltage battery works fine. On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 1:35 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all > > I’m wondering what the consensus is on storing LFP battereis like for a > lightly used RV. > A customer was asking me and I just don’t have a solid answer. > > Some companies say drain to 50% > Others say it’s ok to charge to full, just don’t keep them on a charger. > > For example if you have a lightly used stand alone system that’s full > every day for many hours, it would seem that’s just like charging up to > full but keeping it in float. > > Thanks in advance > > Jay > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 14:38:44 2026 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2026 13:38:44 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LFP storage In-Reply-To: References: <16B95724-199F-49F1-8D32-8D338338A035@gmail.com> Message-ID: Listen to Larry, he is on target. On Sat, Jan 3, 2026 at 1:34 PM Darryl Thayer wrote: > I have some experience. I have a customer that had a parasitic load on for > 3 years, I warned him, now he wants to use the battery and it is dead and I > can not get them to recharge, Another customer with the same battery has > had them on float, at 80% of full charge voltage battery works fine. > > On Fri, Jan 2, 2026 at 1:35 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> I’m wondering what the consensus is on storing LFP battereis like for a >> lightly used RV. >> A customer was asking me and I just don’t have a solid answer. >> >> Some companies say drain to 50% >> Others say it’s ok to charge to full, just don’t keep them on a charger. >> >> For example if you have a lightly used stand alone system that’s full >> every day for many hours, it would seem that’s just like charging up to >> full but keeping it in float. >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lawrencesteven at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 10:35:37 2026 From: lawrencesteven at gmail.com (Steven Lawrence) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2026 10:35:37 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LFP storage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you store your batteries at room temperature? What degradation do you see when it's not at room temperature? On large BESS containers, I get a long term storage document from the OEM and the only major item in there is ambient temperature. You get increasing degradation with colder temperatures. It becomes a major discussion point on projects as we have to get temp generators to power the HVAC, or schedule BESS deliveries towards the end of the project, or store the BESS containers in a climate controlled environment. > > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2026 09:15:19 -0700 > From: Starlight > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LFP storage > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello Jay, > > We have been in the Li-ion battery business for 13 years. I can share our > experience with our LiFeBlue brand and also with GBS cells. > > In our shop we have LFP test cells that have been sitting disconnected for > over 7 years. Each time we test these, the capacity loss is negligible. > Some are stored at 50%, some at 100% SoC. There are other factors I wont > get into but the longevity is remarkable. > > Our recommend storage method for periods over 30 days is to establish > about a 50% SoC (about 13.2V) and disconnect the battery. Make sure it?s > full disconnected as a small load can drain over 4kWh per month. When ready > for use, recharge fully for cell balancing and to calibrate the internal > SoC meter. > > Some customers use batteries in a UPS configuration for radio systems > backup. The voltage is fixed at 14.2V. The cells are only discharged during > a power outage. Some of these systems are over a decade old. > > Our RV and Marine batteries are often left on float charge of 13.8V while > being stored for many months. The downside of this is if the charger > malfunctions you might over-discharge the battery. This could be difficult > to recover if left in a full discharge state. > > If you?re going to disconnect the battery, be sure to check it > occasionally as some batteries have a high self discharge rate. Our brand > has a hibernate mode after 15 days of non use. Current drops to 5uA. > > Let me know if I covered it all. > > Thank you, > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Power Systems > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 17:41:36 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2026 15:41:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] batteryevo question Message-ID: HI All someone contacted me about a system with a battery from batteryevo. they don’t have any active phone numbers, and the website doesn’t have info on legacy equipment. Does anyone have battery charge settings? thanks jay From maverick at mavericksolar.com Thu Jan 8 06:49:19 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:49:19 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] batteryevo question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <513F74B5-E2CB-43E0-AC3E-60653911F5B1@mavericksolar.com> Jay Which BatteryEVO battery model is it? Which inverter / charge controller combo? Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 6, 2026, at 4:43 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > HI All > > someone contacted me about a system with a battery from batteryevo. > > they don’t have any active phone numbers, and the website doesn’t have info on legacy equipment. > > Does anyone have battery charge settings? > > thanks > > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 08:50:34 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 06:50:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] batteryevo question In-Reply-To: <513F74B5-E2CB-43E0-AC3E-60653911F5B1@mavericksolar.com> References: <513F74B5-E2CB-43E0-AC3E-60653911F5B1@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: Hi maverick I don’t know the model. This is all I have from the customer. The system came with the house. 24v I believe. It’s an outback system. Roughly 7 years old so most likely vfxr. Cusomter says he has no paperwork on the system. I’m just trying to get charge settings so I can make sure the programming is correct Here is a picture. Again the customer cannot find any other info. Thanks jay > On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:51 AM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Jay > > Which BatteryEVO battery model is it? > > Which inverter / charge controller combo? > > Thank you, > > Maverick > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > • Solar Commander Remote Power > • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > >>> On Jan 6, 2026, at 4:43 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >> HI All >> >> someone contacted me about a system with a battery from batteryevo. >> >> they don’t have any active phone numbers, and the website doesn’t have info on legacy equipment. >> >> Does anyone have battery charge settings? >> >> thanks >> >> jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 5541572445813852058.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 324277 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 08:56:47 2026 From: gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com (Jim Gowdy) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:56:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Optics RE Issue Message-ID: I'm having issues with all my profiles on Optics....I can access each of my profile's dashboard and gear icon settings, but I can't get into the events or device map. Is anyone else experiencing this? -- Jim with Gowdy Electric Cambria, Ca 93428 business 805 927 2630 cell 805 975 5279 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toddcory at finestplanet.com Thu Jan 8 09:24:03 2026 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (toddcory at finestplanet.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 06:24:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Optics RE Issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1767882243.941514313@webmail.finestplanet.com> Hi Jim, I have full access to the OpticsRE dashboard and gear icon for my home's system, but there has been a recent change to the interface... namely a scroll across the top stating to ensure optimal performance after 2-1-26 they will no longer be offering any data more then 6 months old. I love how they characterize giving us less functionality as a good thing... sigh. And interestingly I was recently looking at the 2025 year graph to compare it to the 2024's and only saw data until May, so the problems with, and cutbacks in services by OB continues. Todd Data older than 6 months will no longer be stored on the cloud. To keep your historical data, you must archive it. We recommend using the built-in export tools in OpticsRE: Manual Export: Download reports from the "Reports" tile in the System Tools section found on the upper right corner of your system screens. Select the date range and time interval of data you wish to download. Press "EMAIL ME" Note that large date ranges and/or short time intervals can take several hours to process. Recurring Download (Recommended): You can set up a recurring report with the next function below the Manual Export option, with reports being sent every 1-day, 1-week or 1-month. For step-by-step instructions, see our guide at [ this YouTube link ]( https://nam13.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmlpeeLK1YWw&data=05%7C02%7Cparth.talaviya%40outbackpower.com%7C18d2ecfb244648dd0fac08de368f63d5%7Cea54f580f0494bcb83f9de5097f4d3ac%7C0%7C0%7C639008186632538431%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=D%2FjtsXagzS88%2FoAgPAaTLWAa5teYs5kgJLd9JXxsUcU%3D&reserved=0 ). If you have questions, please contact our support team: [ support at outbackpower.com ]( mailto:support at outbackpower.com ) or via live chat at [ www.outbackpower.com ]( https://www.outbackpower.com/ ) ******************************************* On Thursday, January 8, 2026 5:56am, "Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches" said: I'm having issues with all my profiles on Optics....I can access each of my profile's dashboard and gear icon settings, but I can't get into the events or device map. Is anyone else experiencing this?-- Jim with Gowdy Electric Cambria, Ca 93428 business 805 927 2630 cell 805 975 5279 Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Jan 8 17:00:34 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2026 17:00:34 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 Message-ID: A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was removed. The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. Is there any way to turn off the warning light? Thank you, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Thu Jan 8 17:09:05 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 15:09:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8d1b0a3f-936e-41ec-b7d5-dada4af2cfda@solarray.com> I'm not 100%, but I think the warning light might be for the temp sensor on the FET board internal to the inverter.  I've had to replace those a few times.  I think I even have a replacement sensor on the shelf, if you need. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 1/8/2026 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to > LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was > removed. > The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned > out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message > showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. > Is there any way to turn off the warning light? > Thank you, > Drake > > /Drake Chamberlin/ > > /Athens Electric LLC/ > > /Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/ > > /NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/ > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgsrenewables at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 17:58:55 2026 From: sgsrenewables at gmail.com (Luke Christy) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 15:58:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Drake, I agree with Ray, The message you’re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent for years- it’s an issue with an internal sensor. I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is persistent then you’ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the sensor. Luke Christy Renewable energy consultant NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO 81144 719.588.3044 sgsrenewables at gmail.com > On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was removed. > > The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. > > Is there any way to turn off the warning light? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > > Athens Electric LLC > > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 18:06:39 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 15:06:39 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's quite possible the internal fan in the VFX needs to be replaced too... worth checking for. On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 2:01 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to > LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was > removed. > > The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to > be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, > as the sensor has been gone for years. > > Is there any way to turn off the warning light? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 18:25:05 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 16:25:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. Or vice versa. Jay > On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01 PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Drake, > I agree with Ray, > The message you’re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent for years- it’s an issue with an internal sensor. > I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is persistent then you’ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the sensor. > > Luke Christy > Renewable energy consultant > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: > > Solar Gain Services, LLC > PO Box 531 > Monte Vista, CO 81144 > 719.588.3044 > sgsrenewables at gmail.com > >> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was removed. >> >> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >> >> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> >> Athens Electric LLC >> >> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 >> >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> >> >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 21:11:05 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 18:11:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches, Jay, Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. FunTimes On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. > > I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. > > Or vice versa. > > Jay > > On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01 PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Drake, > I agree with Ray, > The message you’re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent > for years- it’s an issue with an internal sensor. > I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX > units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is > persistent then you’ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the > sensor. > > Luke Christy > Renewable energy consultant > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: > > Solar Gain Services, LLC > PO Box 531 > Monte Vista, CO 81144 > 719.588.3044 > sgsrenewables at gmail.com > > On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to > LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was > removed. > > The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to > be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, > as the sensor has been gone for years. > > Is there any way to turn off the warning light? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 22:24:47 2026 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2026 22:24:47 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Optics RE Issue In-Reply-To: <1767882243.941514313@webmail.finestplanet.com> References: <1767882243.941514313@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: Todd &Jim, I have full access too but continuing gaps in the graphs. Chris at tech support explained why there are so many problems in optics now due to losses of programming notes when the platform was transferred so they are flying a little blind. As far as past data, I looked at downloading to excel but it looks like a lot of trouble for something rarely used. Nice to know but not needed. I just need full 2 way access for all my off grid second home unattended systems. Just added a new one today after ripping out a Schneider XW and replacing it with a Radian. 3 battery banks burned up with runaway charge voltages. All my time spent with tech support and firmware upgrades never fixed it. John On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:26 AM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I have full access to the OpticsRE dashboard and gear icon for my home's > system, but there has been a recent change to the interface... namely a > scroll across the top stating to ensure optimal performance after 2-1-26 > they will no longer be offering any data more then 6 months old. > > I love how they characterize giving us less functionality as a good > thing... sigh. > > And interestingly I was recently looking at the 2025 year graph to compare > it to the 2024's and only saw data until May, so the problems with, and > cutbacks in services by OB continues. > > > > Todd > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Thu Jan 8 23:29:43 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2026 23:29:43 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Optics RE Issue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3ee177e5-042b-4f9c-8e17-6ac66327956d@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump3391 at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 09:08:05 2026 From: tump3391 at gmail.com (Blair May) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 09:08:05 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Optics RE Issue In-Reply-To: <3ee177e5-042b-4f9c-8e17-6ac66327956d@email.android.com> References: <3ee177e5-042b-4f9c-8e17-6ac66327956d@email.android.com> Message-ID: <300A10FF-B747-4865-91AC-FA7D9D7526ED@gmail.com> Was your Schneider equip the Plus or Pro? On grid or Off. One was able to buy the XWPros still @ NAZ solar. Ive had the XWPlus battery voltages go whacky and just set the float for the asorb set point. The Pros, use the original firmware, seen below. Contact me off list for additional set up info.Tump > On Jan 8, 2026, at 11:29 PM, Glenn via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi John, what kind of Schneider gear did you remove? I am trying to rebuild a system for someone who just had one entire power shed burn to the ground. > > -Glenn > > On Jan 8, 2026 22:24, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote: > Todd &Jim, > I have full access too but continuing gaps in the graphs. Chris at tech support explained why there are so many problems in optics now due to losses of programming notes when the platform was transferred so they are flying a little blind. As far as past data, I looked at downloading to excel but it looks like a lot of trouble for something rarely used. Nice to know but not needed. I just need full 2 way access for all my off grid second home unattended systems. Just added a new one today after ripping out a Schneider XW and replacing it with a Radian. > 3 battery banks burned up with runaway charge voltages. All my time spent with tech support and firmware upgrades never fixed it. > > John Blair “TUMP” May Solarwinds Northernlights east "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we all will perish as fools." MLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 865-6848-21.01_11_01.BN0049.xf0 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1139080 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Fri Jan 9 10:25:57 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 09:25:57 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Optics RE Issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A75B8F6-1F7E-4279-9914-25031FAB0D8F@mavericksolar.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Jan 9 11:07:56 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 08:07:56 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider failure In-Reply-To: <300A10FF-B747-4865-91AC-FA7D9D7526ED@gmail.com> References: <3ee177e5-042b-4f9c-8e17-6ac66327956d@email.android.com> <300A10FF-B747-4865-91AC-FA7D9D7526ED@gmail.com> Message-ID: I fixed the subject line on this thread. . William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 6:15 AM Blair May via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Was your Schneider equip the Plus or Pro? On grid or Off. One was able to > buy the XWPros still @ NAZ solar. Ive had the XWPlus battery voltages go > whacky and just set the float for the asorb set point. The Pros, use the > original firmware, seen below. Contact me off list for additional set up > info.Tump > > On Jan 8, 2026, at 11:29 PM, Glenn via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi John, what kind of Schneider gear did you remove? I am trying to > rebuild a system for someone who just had one entire power shed burn to the > ground. > > -Glenn > > On Jan 8, 2026 22:24, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Todd &Jim, > I have full access too but continuing gaps in the graphs. Chris at tech > support explained why there are so many problems in optics now due to > losses of programming notes when the platform was transferred so they are > flying a little blind. As far as past data, I looked at downloading to > excel but it looks like a lot of trouble for something rarely used. Nice > to know but not needed. I just need full 2 way access for all my off grid > second home unattended systems. Just added a new one today after ripping > out a Schneider XW and replacing it with a Radian. > 3 battery banks burned up with runaway charge voltages. All my time spent > with tech support and firmware upgrades never fixed it. > > John > > > Blair “TUMP” May > Solarwinds Northernlights east > "We must all learn to live together as brothers, > or we all will perish as fools." > MLK > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Jan 9 13:53:25 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 13:53:25 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress envy 12kw battery sell back Message-ID: Hello, I'm setting up a Fortress 12kw inverter w/ the 18.5kwh evault. This system is using an H2 fuel cell to charge the evault, no comms, open loop. I want to sell down battery excess to the grid at regular SOC start/stop intervals. Any ideas on the best way to accomplish this? There is a "forced discharge" tab in the programming menu, this might work, but is there a better way? Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Fri Jan 9 17:56:47 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 14:56:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole system down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 cell LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show that the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it should have. Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always kind of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that it says it was changed. I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the FM100 may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still investigating that one. Zeke -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 18:08:24 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:08:24 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have had that happen before on at least 3 different occasions. Specifically with the fm100. Totally random and couldn't come up with a logical explanation. I just reprogram and roll with it...always seemed odd though. On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 2:58 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to > default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole system > down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 cell > LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show that > the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default > settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back > remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it should > have. > > Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always kind > of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this > time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that it > says it was changed. > > I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the FM100 > may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium > batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still > investigating that one. > > Zeke > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Fri Jan 9 18:35:43 2026 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:35:43 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor feeds its information too? Thanks, Christopher On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, Jay, > Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to > overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback > was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with > fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a > new location. > FunTimes > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I’ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >> >> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >> >> Or vice versa. >> >> Jay >> >> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01 PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Drake, >> I agree with Ray, >> The message you’re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent >> for years- it’s an issue with an internal sensor. >> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX >> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >> persistent then you’ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the >> sensor. >> >> Luke Christy >> Renewable energy consultant >> >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: >> >> Solar Gain Services, LLC >> PO Box 531 >> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >> 719.588.3044 >> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >> >> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to >> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was >> removed. >> >> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out >> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up >> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >> >> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> >> *Drake Chamberlin* >> >> *Athens Electric LLC* >> >> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* >> >> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >> >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 18:51:02 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 16:51:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Chris, They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units jay > On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35 PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches wrote: > > While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor feeds its information too? > > Thanks, > Christopher > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> Wrenches, Jay, >> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >> FunTimes >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26 PM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>> I’ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>> >>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>> >>> Or vice versa. >>> >>> Jay >>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01 PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>> >>>> Drake, >>>> I agree with Ray, >>>> The message you’re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent for years- it’s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is persistent then you’ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the sensor. >>>> >>>> Luke Christy >>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>> >>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: >>>> >>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>> PO Box 531 >>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>> 719.588.3044 >>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>> >>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was removed. >>>>> >>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>>> >>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Drake >>>>> >>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>> >>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>> >>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 >>>>> >>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > > -- > Chris Schaefer’s > > Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 > 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 > www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 18:56:22 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:56:22 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches. Jay As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top of the xfmr. Fun times On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52 PM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI Chris, > > They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units > > jay > > On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35 PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal > temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to > have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got > many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan > out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan > is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr > temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a > 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor > feeds its information too? > > Thanks, > Christopher > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, Jay, >> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to >> overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback >> was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with >> fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a >> new location. >> FunTimes >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I’ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>> >>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>> >>> Or vice versa. >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01 PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> Drake, >>> I agree with Ray, >>> The message you’re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent >>> for years- it’s an issue with an internal sensor. >>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX >>> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >>> persistent then you’ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the >>> sensor. >>> >>> Luke Christy >>> Renewable energy consultant >>> >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: >>> >>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>> PO Box 531 >>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>> 719.588.3044 >>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to >>> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was >>> removed. >>> >>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out >>> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up >>> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>> >>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Drake >>> >>> >>> *Drake Chamberlin* >>> >>> *Athens Electric LLC* >>> >>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* >>> >>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Chris Schaefer’s > > > *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 > **www.solarandwindfx.com > ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > * > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 19:06:33 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 17:06:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It’s been a lot of years since replaced one, but from memory, the early FX had the temp sensor plugged into the board. Later models, I don’t know when it started had the temp sensor attached to the transformer with tape but it still attaches to the same plug on the board. The replacement temp sensors attach to the transformer and include the high temp tape to attach to the transformer. it takes all of about 2 minutes to do, once you have the top taken off the inverter. Since the cost of the site visit and time to remove the inverter to replace the $20 temp sensor is high, i also replace the fan as its also inexpensive but the service call is expensive for the client I presume that Zonna has the temp sensors and maybe fans again. Jay > On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:56 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > > Wrenches. Jay > As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top of the xfmr. > Fun times > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52 PM jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> HI Chris, >> >> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >> >> jay >> >>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35 PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>> >>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor feeds its information too? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Christopher >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >>>> FunTimes >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26 PM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>> I’ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>> >>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>> >>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>> >>>>> Jay >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01 PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Drake, >>>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>>> The message you’re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent for years- it’s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is persistent then you’ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the sensor. >>>>>> >>>>>> Luke Christy >>>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>>> >>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: >>>>>> >>>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was removed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Drake >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris Schaefer’s >>> >>> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 14:17:41 2026 From: lucchesesolar at gmail.com (Nick Lucchese) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 11:17:41 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, it keeps happening to me as well. At least 8 times now. The first couple times I blamed myself and thought I had made the rookie default settings mistake I see on other's sites but now I know better. Only the FM100. Just got back from a site that resulted in the client's Radian shutting down due to battery volt sense faults from it. First time it has caused shutdowns though. Looks like her Blue Ions had been sitting at 57.6 for months now. Unfortunately she has Hughesnet that almost never works with Opticsre otherwise I would have caught it. Extremely frustrating, I've easily eaten enough service calls and equipment failures for Outback over the years that I could have paid off a Toyota Yaris. No exaggeration. Nick On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 2:58 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to > default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole system > down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 cell > LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show that > the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default > settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back > remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it should > have. > > Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always kind > of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this > time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that it > says it was changed. > > I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the FM100 > may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium > batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still > investigating that one. > > Zeke > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palumbo131m at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 16:12:56 2026 From: palumbo131m at gmail.com (David Palumbo) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 21:12:56 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid Message-ID: Wrench, An off-grid installation of mine from many years ago has is now using grid power instead of a generator. The utility is telling the homeowner that they are going to disconnect him because his house is back feeding 1 amp into their grid power. I've been retired for many years now and did not do any of the work to connect the utility power to his Trace SW4024 inverter/charger. The utility power became available when his son brought in utility power for his maple sugaring operation in the neighborhood, and the father connected power to his house to replace his fossil fueled generator for additional charging into his battery bank. They do not have a grid interconnect sellback agreement with the utility. I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that the utility grid is seeing power from its input connection to his Trace SW4024. Does that sound right? If so, is there a simple solution to fix this problem while continuing to use the grid power through his SW inverter? Thanks for any advice that may help. David Palumbo Hyde Park, VT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 16:54:45 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 14:54:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <572561F1-1274-4322-81BB-B158848FFC54@gmail.com> I seem to remember this was an issue a long time ago. The GTI was some sort of fix. I’d install a manual transfer switch as I presume the inverter/solar is now battery backup? Or you could use a breaker box with an interlock kit. Good luck Jay > On Jan 10, 2026, at 2:13 PM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Wrench, > > An off-grid installation of mine from many years ago has is now using grid power instead of a generator. The utility is telling the homeowner that they are going to disconnect him because his house is back feeding 1 amp into their grid power. > > I've been retired for many years now and did not do any of the work to connect the utility power to his Trace SW4024 inverter/charger. The utility power became available when his son brought in utility power for his maple sugaring operation in the neighborhood, and the father connected power to his house to replace his fossil fueled generator for additional charging into his battery bank. They do not have a grid interconnect sellback agreement with the utility. > > I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that the utility grid is seeing power from its input connection to his Trace SW4024. Does that sound right? If so, is there a simple solution to fix this problem while continuing to use the grid power through his SW inverter? > > Thanks for any advice that may help. > > David Palumbo > Hyde Park, VT > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brett at oregonsunwrangler.com Sat Jan 10 17:37:19 2026 From: brett at oregonsunwrangler.com (Brett Stigile) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 15:37:19 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95970272258f2ef9af8ed3148d633439@oregonsunwrangler.com> I just had an FM 60 reset to factory specs. This is on an old lead acid set up so can't blame lithium. Not online. --- Brett Stigile Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician 503-317-7950 brett at oregonsunwrangler.com Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC CCB: 240661 License: 66LRT NABCEP PV Installation Professional certification: PV 100414-008123 On 2026-01-10 14:02, re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous > lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings > (Zeke Yewdall) > 2. Re: Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings > (Tyrone Houck) > 3. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (Chris Schaefer) > 4. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (jay) > 5. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (Jerry Shafer) > 6. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (jay) > 7. Re: Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings > (Nick Lucchese) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 14:56:47 -0800 > From: Zeke Yewdall > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default > settings > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to > default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole > system > down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 > cell > LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show > that > the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default > settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back > remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it > should > have. > > Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always > kind of > chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this > time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that > it > says it was changed. > > I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the > FM100 > may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium > batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still > investigating that one. > > Zeke > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:08:24 -0800 > From: Tyrone Houck > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to > default settings > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have had that happen before on at least 3 different occasions. > Specifically with the fm100. Totally random and couldn't come up with > a > logical explanation. I just reprogram and roll with it...always seemed > odd > though. > > > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 2:58?PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting >> to >> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole >> system >> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 >> cell >> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show >> that >> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default >> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them >> back >> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it >> should >> have. >> >> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always >> kind >> of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but >> this >> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time >> that it >> says it was changed. >> >> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the >> FM100 >> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >> investigating that one. >> >> Zeke >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:35:43 -0500 > From: Chris Schaefer > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and > internal > temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears > to > have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've > got > many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a > fan > out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the > fan > is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the > xfmr > temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on > a > 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp > sensor > feeds its information too? > > Thanks, > Christopher > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, Jay, >> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards >> to >> overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When >> outback >> was still running the parts department you always got temp senders >> with >> fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor >> in a >> new location. >> FunTimes >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>> >>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>> >>> Or vice versa. >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> ?Drake, >>> I agree with Ray, >>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been >>> absent >>> for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX >>> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >>> persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace >>> the >>> sensor. >>> >>> Luke Christy >>> Renewable energy consultant >>> >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>> >>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>> PO Box 531 >>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>> 719.588.3044 >>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to >>> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was >>> removed. >>> >>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned >>> out >>> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message >>> showed up >>> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>> >>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Drake >>> >>> >>> *Drake Chamberlin* >>> >>> *Athens Electric LLC* >>> >>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810* >>> >>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Chris Schaefer?s > > > *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com > ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > * > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 16:51:02 -0700 > From: jay > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > HI Chris, > > They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units > > jay > >> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and >> internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 >> that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt >> inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question >> is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 >> volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the readings >> above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. Again, can I >> take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v unit? Which board >> might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor feeds its >> information too? >> >> Thanks, >> Christopher >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >> > > wrote: >>> Wrenches, Jay, >>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet >>> boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the >>> intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you >>> always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation procedure, >>> yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >>> FunTimes >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches >>> >> > wrote: >>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>> >>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>> >>>> Or vice versa. >>>> >>>> Jay >>>> >>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ?Drake, >>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been >>>>> absent for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on >>>>> VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning >>>>> is persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and >>>>> replace the sensor. >>>>> >>>>> Luke Christy >>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>> >>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>> >>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >>>>>> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries >>>>>> to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature >>>>>> sensor was removed. >>>>>> >>>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning >>>>>> turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this >>>>>> message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Drake >>>>>> >>>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>>> >>>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>>> >>>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810 >>>>>> >>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>> try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>> try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris Schaefer?s >> >> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: >> chris at solarandwindfx.com >> >> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >> willing to work and give to those who would not." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:56:22 -0800 > From: Jerry Shafer > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Wrenches. Jay > As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just > relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top > of > the xfmr. > Fun times > > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52?PM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> HI Chris, >> >> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >> >> jay >> >> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and >> internal >> temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears >> to >> have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've >> got >> many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize >> a fan >> out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say >> the fan >> is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the >> xfmr >> temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on >> a >> 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp >> sensor >> feeds its information too? >> >> Thanks, >> Christopher >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Wrenches, Jay, >>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet >>> boards to >>> overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When >>> outback >>> was still running the parts department you always got temp senders >>> with >>> fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor >>> in a >>> new location. >>> FunTimes >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>> >>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>> >>>> Or vice versa. >>>> >>>> Jay >>>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Drake, >>>> I agree with Ray, >>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been >>>> absent >>>> for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on >>>> VFX >>>> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >>>> persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace >>>> the >>>> sensor. >>>> >>>> Luke Christy >>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>> >>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>> >>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>> PO Box 531 >>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>> 719.588.3044 >>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to >>>> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was >>>> removed. >>>> >>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned >>>> out >>>> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message >>>> showed up >>>> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>> >>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Drake >>>> >>>> >>>> *Drake Chamberlin* >>>> >>>> *Athens Electric LLC* >>>> >>>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810* >>>> >>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> Chris Schaefer?s >> >> >> *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >> *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >> **www.solarandwindfx.com >> ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >> * >> >> >> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >> willing to work and give to those who would not." >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 17:06:33 -0700 > From: jay > To: Jerry Shafer > Cc: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > It?s been a lot of years since replaced one, but from memory, the early > FX had the temp sensor plugged into the board. > > Later models, I don?t know when it started had the temp sensor attached > to the transformer with tape but it still attaches to the same plug on > the board. > > The replacement temp sensors attach to the transformer and include the > high temp tape to attach to the transformer. > > it takes all of about 2 minutes to do, once you have the top taken off > the inverter. > > Since the cost of the site visit and time to remove the inverter to > replace the $20 temp sensor is high, i also replace the fan as its also > inexpensive but the service call is expensive for the client > > > I presume that Zonna has the temp sensors and maybe fans again. > > Jay > > > >> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:56?PM, Jerry Shafer >> wrote: >> >> Wrenches. Jay >> As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just >> relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top >> of the xfmr. >> Fun times >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52?PM jay via RE-wrenches >> > > wrote: >>> HI Chris, >>> >>> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >>> >>> jay >>> >>>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and >>>> internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 >>>> that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 >>>> volt inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My >>>> question is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it >>>> in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the >>>> readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. >>>> Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v >>>> unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor >>>> feeds its information too? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Christopher >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet >>>>> boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the >>>>> intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you >>>>> always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation >>>>> procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >>>>> FunTimes >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jay >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches >>>>>>> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ?Drake, >>>>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been >>>>>>> absent for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on >>>>>>> VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the >>>>>>> warning is persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up >>>>>>> and replace the sensor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Luke Christy >>>>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid >>>>>>>> batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the >>>>>>>> temperature sensor was removed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning >>>>>>>> turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that >>>>>>>> this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for >>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Drake >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>>>>>>> work, try the other: >>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>>> try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>> try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>> try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chris Schaefer?s >>>> >>>> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>>> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>>> >>>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: >>>> chris at solarandwindfx.com >>>> >>>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who >>>> are willing to work and give to those who would not." >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 11:17:41 -0800 > From: Nick Lucchese > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to > default settings > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Yes, it keeps happening to me as well. At least 8 times now. The first > couple times I blamed myself and thought I had made the rookie default > settings mistake I see on other's sites but now I know better. Only the > FM100. Just got back from a site that resulted in the client's Radian > shutting down due to battery volt sense faults from it. First time it > has > caused shutdowns though. Looks like her Blue Ions had been sitting at > 57.6 > for months now. Unfortunately she has Hughesnet that almost never works > with Opticsre otherwise I would have caught it. Extremely frustrating, > I've > easily eaten enough service calls and equipment failures for Outback > over > the years that I could have paid off a Toyota Yaris. No exaggeration. > > Nick > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 2:58?PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting >> to >> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole >> system >> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 >> cell >> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show >> that >> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default >> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them >> back >> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it >> should >> have. >> >> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always >> kind >> of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but >> this >> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time >> that it >> says it was changed. >> >> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the >> FM100 >> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >> investigating that one. >> >> Zeke >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10 > ******************************************* From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 17:47:37 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 15:47:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: <95970272258f2ef9af8ed3148d633439@oregonsunwrangler.com> References: <95970272258f2ef9af8ed3148d633439@oregonsunwrangler.com> Message-ID: <7F351F01-5477-4AEA-B843-A0FA35191303@gmail.com> Are any of these running mate3? Not 3s? > On Jan 10, 2026, at 3:38 PM, Brett Stigile via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I just had an FM 60 reset to factory specs. This is on an old lead acid set up so can't blame lithium. Not online. > > --- > Brett Stigile > Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician > 503-317-7950 > brett at oregonsunwrangler.com > > Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC > CCB: 240661 > License: 66LRT > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > certification: PV 100414-008123 > >> On 2026-01-10 14:02, re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: >> Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." >> When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. >> Today's Topics: >> 1. Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings >> (Zeke Yewdall) >> 2. Re: Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings >> (Tyrone Houck) >> 3. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (Chris Schaefer) >> 4. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (jay) >> 5. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (Jerry Shafer) >> 6. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (jay) >> 7. Re: Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings >> (Nick Lucchese) >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 14:56:47 -0800 >> From: Zeke Yewdall >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default >> settings >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to >> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole system >> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 cell >> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show that >> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default >> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back >> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it should >> have. >> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always kind of >> chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this >> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that it >> says it was changed. >> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the FM100 >> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >> investigating that one. >> Zeke >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:08:24 -0800 >> From: Tyrone Houck >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to >> default settings >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> I have had that happen before on at least 3 different occasions. >> Specifically with the fm100. Totally random and couldn't come up with a >> logical explanation. I just reprogram and roll with it...always seemed odd >> though. >>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 2:58?PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to >>> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole system >>> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 cell >>> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show that >>> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default >>> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back >>> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it should >>> have. >>> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always kind >>> of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this >>> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that it >>> says it was changed. >>> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the FM100 >>> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >>> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >>> investigating that one. >>> Zeke >>> -- >>> Zeke Yewdall >>> PV Engineer >>> NABCEP #031508-89 >>> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >>> 303-523-3592 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:35:43 -0500 >> From: Chris Schaefer >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal >> temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to >> have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got >> many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan >> out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan >> is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr >> temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a >> 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor >> feeds its information too? >> Thanks, >> Christopher >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> Wrenches, Jay, >>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to >>> overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback >>> was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with >>> fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a >>> new location. >>> FunTimes >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>> Or vice versa. >>>> Jay >>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> ?Drake, >>>> I agree with Ray, >>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent >>>> for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX >>>> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >>>> persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the >>>> sensor. >>>> Luke Christy >>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>> PO Box 531 >>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>> 719.588.3044 >>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to >>>> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was >>>> removed. >>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out >>>> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up >>>> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>> Thank you, >>>> Drake >>>> *Drake Chamberlin* >>>> *Athens Electric LLC* >>>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810* >>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >>>> -- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -- >> Chris Schaefer?s >> *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >> *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com >> ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >> * >> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >> willing to work and give to those who would not." >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 16:51:02 -0700 >> From: jay >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> HI Chris, >> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >> jay >>>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor feeds its information too? >>> Thanks, >>> Christopher >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >>>> FunTimes >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>> Jay >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>> ?Drake, >>>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the sensor. >>>>>> Luke Christy >>>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was removed. >>>>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> Drake >>>>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810 >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> -- >>> Chris Schaefer?s >>> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:56:22 -0800 >> From: Jerry Shafer >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> Wrenches. Jay >> As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just >> relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top of >> the xfmr. >> Fun times >>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52?PM jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> HI Chris, >>> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >>> jay >>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal >>> temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to >>> have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got >>> many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan >>> out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan >>> is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr >>> temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a >>> 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor >>> feeds its information too? >>> Thanks, >>> Christopher >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to >>>> overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback >>>> was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with >>>> fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a >>>> new location. >>>> FunTimes >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>> Jay >>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> ?Drake, >>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent >>>>> for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX >>>>> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >>>>> persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the >>>>> sensor. >>>>> Luke Christy >>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to >>>>> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was >>>>> removed. >>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out >>>>> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up >>>>> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Drake >>>>> *Drake Chamberlin* >>>>> *Athens Electric LLC* >>>>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810* >>>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >>>>> -- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> -- >>> Chris Schaefer?s >>> *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >>> *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> **www.solarandwindfx.com >>> ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >>> * >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 17:06:33 -0700 >> From: jay >> To: Jerry Shafer >> Cc: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> It?s been a lot of years since replaced one, but from memory, the early FX had the temp sensor plugged into the board. >> Later models, I don?t know when it started had the temp sensor attached to the transformer with tape but it still attaches to the same plug on the board. >> The replacement temp sensors attach to the transformer and include the high temp tape to attach to the transformer. >> it takes all of about 2 minutes to do, once you have the top taken off the inverter. >> Since the cost of the site visit and time to remove the inverter to replace the $20 temp sensor is high, i also replace the fan as its also inexpensive but the service call is expensive for the client >> I presume that Zonna has the temp sensors and maybe fans again. >> Jay >>>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:56?PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: >>> Wrenches. Jay >>> As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top of the xfmr. >>> Fun times >>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52?PM jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>> HI Chris, >>>> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >>>> jay >>>>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor feeds its information too? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Christopher >>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >>>>>> FunTimes >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>>>> Jay >>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>>>> ?Drake, >>>>>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been absent for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace the sensor. >>>>>>>> Luke Christy >>>>>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>>>>>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was removed. >>>>>>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>>>>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>> Drake >>>>>>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>>>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>>>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810 >>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> -- >>>>> Chris Schaefer?s >>>>> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>>>> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>>>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >>>>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 11:17:41 -0800 >> From: Nick Lucchese >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to >> default settings >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> Yes, it keeps happening to me as well. At least 8 times now. The first >> couple times I blamed myself and thought I had made the rookie default >> settings mistake I see on other's sites but now I know better. Only the >> FM100. Just got back from a site that resulted in the client's Radian >> shutting down due to battery volt sense faults from it. First time it has >> caused shutdowns though. Looks like her Blue Ions had been sitting at 57.6 >> for months now. Unfortunately she has Hughesnet that almost never works >> with Opticsre otherwise I would have caught it. Extremely frustrating, I've >> easily eaten enough service calls and equipment failures for Outback over >> the years that I could have paid off a Toyota Yaris. No exaggeration. >> Nick >>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 2:58?PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to >>> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole system >>> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 cell >>> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show that >>> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default >>> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back >>> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it should >>> have. >>> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always kind >>> of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this >>> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that it >>> says it was changed. >>> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the FM100 >>> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >>> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >>> investigating that one. >>> Zeke >>> -- >>> Zeke Yewdall >>> PV Engineer >>> NABCEP #031508-89 >>> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >>> 303-523-3592 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> ------------------------------ >> Subject: Digest Footer >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> ------------------------------ >> End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10 >> ******************************************* > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From brett at oregonsunwrangler.com Sat Jan 10 18:09:29 2026 From: brett at oregonsunwrangler.com (Brett Stigile) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 16:09:29 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: <95970272258f2ef9af8ed3148d633439@oregonsunwrangler.com> References: <95970272258f2ef9af8ed3148d633439@oregonsunwrangler.com> Message-ID: <7124f8a62bdb966a37c4029e4c152b79@oregonsunwrangler.com> No Mate. : ) This job was a bring your own mate to the party. Apparently, it has never had one so when I put in new batteries (AGM) a few months back I brought an old Mate 1/2 to check settings on inverter. Client sent me a picture of screen showing what battery voltage to select and language selection. Factory settings. But they said it wasn't charging batteries. Only thing I can think that happened is CC faulted. Client flipped off breakers to CC and back on to power cycle. Perhaps the PV breaker before the CC breaker from battery (does it matter?). I doubt they pushed and held first and third button. They know very little of the system. I head out there tomorrow to see if it is still functioning and re program. Very timely that others posted similar reset problems. --- Brett Stigile Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician 503-317-7950 brett at oregonsunwrangler.com Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC CCB: 240661 License: 66LRT NABCEP PV Installation Professional certification: PV 100414-008123 On 2026-01-10 15:37, Brett Stigile wrote: > I just had an FM 60 reset to factory specs. This is on an old lead > acid set up so can't blame lithium. Not online. > > --- > Brett Stigile > Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician > 503-317-7950 > brett at oregonsunwrangler.com > > Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC > CCB: 240661 > License: 66LRT > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > certification: PV 100414-008123 > > On 2026-01-10 14:02, re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: >> Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." >> >> >> When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the >> Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any >> extraneous lines from the quoted message. >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings >> (Zeke Yewdall) >> 2. Re: Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings >> (Tyrone Houck) >> 3. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (Chris Schaefer) >> 4. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (jay) >> 5. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (Jerry Shafer) >> 6. Re: Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 (jay) >> 7. Re: Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings >> (Nick Lucchese) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 14:56:47 -0800 >> From: Zeke Yewdall >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default >> settings >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting >> to >> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole >> system >> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 >> cell >> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show >> that >> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default >> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them >> back >> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it >> should >> have. >> >> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always >> kind of >> chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but >> this >> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time >> that it >> says it was changed. >> >> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the >> FM100 >> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >> investigating that one. >> >> Zeke >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:08:24 -0800 >> From: Tyrone Houck >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to >> default settings >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I have had that happen before on at least 3 different occasions. >> Specifically with the fm100. Totally random and couldn't come up with >> a >> logical explanation. I just reprogram and roll with it...always seemed >> odd >> though. >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 2:58?PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting >>> to >>> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole >>> system >>> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 >>> cell >>> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show >>> that >>> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the >>> default >>> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them >>> back >>> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it >>> should >>> have. >>> >>> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always >>> kind >>> of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but >>> this >>> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time >>> that it >>> says it was changed. >>> >>> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the >>> FM100 >>> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >>> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >>> investigating that one. >>> >>> Zeke >>> >>> -- >>> Zeke Yewdall >>> PV Engineer >>> NABCEP #031508-89 >>> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >>> 303-523-3592 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:35:43 -0500 >> From: Chris Schaefer >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and >> internal >> temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that appears >> to >> have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've >> got >> many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize >> a fan >> out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say >> the fan >> is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing the >> xfmr >> temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on >> a >> 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp >> sensor >> feeds its information too? >> >> Thanks, >> Christopher >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Wrenches, Jay, >>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet >>> boards to >>> overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When >>> outback >>> was still running the parts department you always got temp senders >>> with >>> fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor >>> in a >>> new location. >>> FunTimes >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>> >>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>> >>>> Or vice versa. >>>> >>>> Jay >>>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Drake, >>>> I agree with Ray, >>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been >>>> absent >>>> for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on >>>> VFX >>>> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >>>> persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace >>>> the >>>> sensor. >>>> >>>> Luke Christy >>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>> >>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>> >>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>> PO Box 531 >>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>> 719.588.3044 >>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries to >>>> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor was >>>> removed. >>>> >>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned >>>> out >>>> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message >>>> showed up >>>> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>> >>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Drake >>>> >>>> >>>> *Drake Chamberlin* >>>> >>>> *Athens Electric LLC* >>>> >>>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810* >>>> >>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> Chris Schaefer?s >> >> >> *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >> *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com >> ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >> * >> >> >> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >> willing to work and give to those who would not." >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 16:51:02 -0700 >> From: jay >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> HI Chris, >> >> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >> >> jay >> >>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches >>> wrote: >>> >>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and >>> internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 >>> that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt >>> inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question >>> is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 >>> volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on the readings >>> above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp sensor. Again, can I >>> take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a 24v unit? Which board >>> might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp sensor feeds its >>> information too? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Christopher >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>> >> > wrote: >>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet >>>> boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the >>>> intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you >>>> always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation >>>> procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >>>> FunTimes >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>> >>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>> >>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>> >>>>> Jay >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches >>>>>> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ?Drake, >>>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been >>>>>> absent for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on >>>>>> VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the >>>>>> warning is persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up >>>>>> and replace the sensor. >>>>>> >>>>>> Luke Christy >>>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>>> >>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>>> >>>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >>>>>>> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries >>>>>>> to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature >>>>>>> sensor was removed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning >>>>>>> turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that >>>>>>> this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for >>>>>>> years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Drake >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>>> try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>> try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>> try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris Schaefer?s >>> >>> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: >>> chris at solarandwindfx.com >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 15:56:22 -0800 >> From: Jerry Shafer >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Wrenches. Jay >> As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just >> relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top >> of >> the xfmr. >> Fun times >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52?PM jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> HI Chris, >>> >>> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >>> >>> jay >>> >>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and >>> internal >>> temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 that >>> appears to >>> have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 volt inverters. I've >>> got >>> many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My question is can I cannibalize >>> a fan >>> out of a 48 volt unit and put it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say >>> the fan >>> is ok and based on the readings above I should look into replacing >>> the xfmr >>> temp sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it >>> on a >>> 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp >>> sensor >>> feeds its information too? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Christopher >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet >>>> boards to >>>> overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the intervals. When >>>> outback >>>> was still running the parts department you always got temp senders >>>> with >>>> fans, boards and a relocation procedure, yes you must put the sensor >>>> in a >>>> new location. >>>> FunTimes >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>> >>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>> >>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>> >>>>> Jay >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ?Drake, >>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has been >>>>> absent >>>>> for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors on >>>>> VFX >>>>> units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the warning is >>>>> persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit up and replace >>>>> the >>>>> sensor. >>>>> >>>>> Luke Christy >>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>> >>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>> >>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid batteries >>>>> to >>>>> LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the temperature sensor >>>>> was >>>>> removed. >>>>> >>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning turned >>>>> out >>>>> to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that this message >>>>> showed up >>>>> now, as the sensor has been gone for years. >>>>> >>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Drake >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Drake Chamberlin* >>>>> >>>>> *Athens Electric LLC* >>>>> >>>>> *Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810* >>>>> >>>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>> try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>> try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>> try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the >>>> other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Chris Schaefer?s >>> >>> >>> *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >>> *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> **www.solarandwindfx.com >>> ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >>> * >>> >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2026 17:06:33 -0700 >> From: jay >> To: Jerry Shafer >> Cc: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Sensor Light on VFX3648 >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> It?s been a lot of years since replaced one, but from memory, the >> early FX had the temp sensor plugged into the board. >> >> Later models, I don?t know when it started had the temp sensor >> attached to the transformer with tape but it still attaches to the >> same plug on the board. >> >> The replacement temp sensors attach to the transformer and include the >> high temp tape to attach to the transformer. >> >> it takes all of about 2 minutes to do, once you have the top taken off >> the inverter. >> >> Since the cost of the site visit and time to remove the inverter to >> replace the $20 temp sensor is high, i also replace the fan as its >> also inexpensive but the service call is expensive for the client >> >> >> I presume that Zonna has the temp sensors and maybe fans again. >> >> Jay >> >> >> >>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:56?PM, Jerry Shafer >>> wrote: >>> >>> Wrenches. Jay >>> As l recall all the fans are the same PN same with the sensors. Just >>> relocate the temp sender to the new location as l recall it is on top >>> of the xfmr. >>> Fun times >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026, 3:52?PM jay via RE-wrenches >>> >> > wrote: >>>> HI Chris, >>>> >>>> They are all 12v fans and universal between 12,24,48v units >>>> >>>> jay >>>> >>>>> On Jan 9, 2026, at 4:35?PM, Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> While on the subject of VFX inverters in regards to the fan and >>>>> internal temp sensors, I've got a client with a circa 2010 VFX3624 >>>>> that appears to have a failed fan. I don't normally deal with 24 >>>>> volt inverters. I've got many dead VFX3648 units hanging out. My >>>>> question is can I cannibalize a fan out of a 48 volt unit and put >>>>> it in a 24 volt unit? Next, let's say the fan is ok and based on >>>>> the readings above I should look into replacing the xfmr temp >>>>> sensor. Again, can I take one out of a 48v inverter and use it on a >>>>> 24v unit? Which board might be suspect as well that the xfmr temp >>>>> sensor feeds its information too? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Christopher >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026 at 9:23?PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>>> Wrenches, Jay, >>>>>> Transformer temp sensors in the FX Fails, fans fail causing fet >>>>>> boards to overheat, dirty filters cause high temps on all the >>>>>> intervals. When outback was still running the parts department you >>>>>> always got temp senders with fans, boards and a relocation >>>>>> procedure, yes you must put the sensor in a new location. >>>>>> FunTimes >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2026, 3:26?PM Jay via RE-wrenches >>>>>> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> I?ve replaced dozens of internal temp sensors over the years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I learned to also replace the fan at the same time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or vice versa. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jay >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 4:01?PM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ?Drake, >>>>>>>> I agree with Ray, >>>>>>>> The message you?re seeing does not refer to the RTS that has >>>>>>>> been absent for years- it?s an issue with an internal sensor. >>>>>>>> I have seen intermittent warnings relating to internal sensors >>>>>>>> on VFX units that have self-resolved with a reboot, but if the >>>>>>>> warning is persistent then you?ll likely need to open the unit >>>>>>>> up and replace the sensor. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Luke Christy >>>>>>>> Renewable energy consultant >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>>>>>> PO Box 531 >>>>>>>> Monte Vista, CO 81144 >>>>>>>> 719.588.3044 >>>>>>>> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2026, at 3:00?PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A couple of years back, a client changed from lead acid >>>>>>>>> batteries to LiFeBlue, lithium batteries. At that time the >>>>>>>>> temperature sensor was removed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The other day, a warning light started blinking. The warning >>>>>>>>> turned out to be a bad temperature sensor. It is strange that >>>>>>>>> this message showed up now, as the sensor has been gone for >>>>>>>>> years. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is there any way to turn off the warning light? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Drake >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Drake Chamberlin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Athens Electric LLC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ohio Electrical Contractor?s License 44810 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>>>>>>>> work, try the other: >>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>>>>>>> work, try the other: >>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>>> try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>> try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Chris Schaefer?s >>>>> >>>>> Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>>>> 5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>>>> >>>>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: >>>>> chris at solarandwindfx.com >>>>> >>>>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>>>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who >>>>> are willing to work and give to those who would not." >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>> try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 11:17:41 -0800 >> From: Nick Lucchese >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to >> default settings >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Yes, it keeps happening to me as well. At least 8 times now. The first >> couple times I blamed myself and thought I had made the rookie default >> settings mistake I see on other's sites but now I know better. Only >> the >> FM100. Just got back from a site that resulted in the client's Radian >> shutting down due to battery volt sense faults from it. First time it >> has >> caused shutdowns though. Looks like her Blue Ions had been sitting at >> 57.6 >> for months now. Unfortunately she has Hughesnet that almost never >> works >> with Opticsre otherwise I would have caught it. Extremely frustrating, >> I've >> easily eaten enough service calls and equipment failures for Outback >> over >> the years that I could have paid off a Toyota Yaris. No exaggeration. >> >> Nick >> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 2:58?PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting >>> to >>> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole >>> system >>> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 >>> cell >>> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show >>> that >>> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the >>> default >>> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them >>> back >>> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it >>> should >>> have. >>> >>> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always >>> kind >>> of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but >>> this >>> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time >>> that it >>> says it was changed. >>> >>> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the >>> FM100 >>> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >>> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >>> investigating that one. >>> >>> Zeke >>> >>> -- >>> Zeke Yewdall >>> PV Engineer >>> NABCEP #031508-89 >>> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >>> 303-523-3592 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 10 >> ******************************************* From kent at coveoregon.com Sat Jan 10 19:50:18 2026 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2026 16:50:18 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, The SW4024 inverter has a SELL mode that allows power to flow back to the grid from the AC1 terminals. Make sure that the SELL mode is not selected; that may take of the problem. If not, connect the utility power to the AC2 terminals, it shouldn't be possible for the SW inverter to backfeed power to the the AC2 terminals. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 1/10/2026 1:12 PM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: > Wrench, > > An off-grid installation of mine from many years ago has is now using > grid power instead of a generator. The utility is telling the > homeowner that they are going to disconnect him because his house is > back feeding 1 amp into their grid power. > > I've been retired for many years now and did not do any of the work to > connect the utility power to his Trace SW4024 inverter/charger. The > utility power became available when his son brought in utility power > for his maple sugaring operation in the neighborhood, and the father > connected power to his house to replace his fossil fueled generator > for additional charging into his battery bank. They do not have a grid > interconnect sellback agreement with the utility. > > I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that the utility grid > is seeing power from its input connection to his Trace SW4024. Does > that sound right? If so, is there a simple solution to fix this > problem while continuing to use the grid power through his SW inverter? > > Thanks for any advice that may help. > > David Palumbo > Hyde Park, VT > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Jan 11 11:34:03 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2026 08:34:03 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of my customers thinks it happens after the charge controller loses power due to a battery BMS shutdown. And the other one, it did happen on the charge controller that was disconnected for a while for a new array being wired in. So... I'm wondering, how does the FM100 store programming data? Is it in some sort of memory that requires power? And if so, does it have a coin battery in there or how does it remember the settings when battery power is removed? I know this is a common thing in old ham radios of a certain vintage, that they have an internal coin battery to remember settings and after 5 or 10 years, it has to be replaced. The Midnite Classics also have the coin battery in the display... so, does the FM100 have something like this? Zeke From: Tyrone Houck To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have had that happen before on at least 3 different occasions. Specifically with the fm100. Totally random and couldn't come up with a logical explanation. I just reprogram and roll with it...always seemed odd though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 11:48:07 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2026 08:48:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hmmm. I don't know..the ones I've seen do it never actually lost power. I had two at the same site do it and my intuition was that the mate was somehow responsible. On Sun, Jan 11, 2026, 8:34 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > One of my customers thinks it happens after the charge controller loses > power due to a battery BMS shutdown. And the other one, it did happen on > the charge controller that was disconnected for a while for a new array > being wired in. So... I'm wondering, how does the FM100 store programming > data? Is it in some sort of memory that requires power? And if so, does > it have a coin battery in there or how does it remember the settings when > battery power is removed? I know this is a common thing in old ham radios > of a certain vintage, that they have an internal coin battery to remember > settings and after 5 or 10 years, it has to be replaced. The Midnite > Classics also have the coin battery in the display... so, does the FM100 > have something like this? > > Zeke > > > From: Tyrone Houck > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] > Message-ID: > DNxM-buzrijftd+ZpnmkPe_haQy_7539RyxwcFDpSkA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have had that happen before on at least 3 different occasions. > Specifically with the fm100. Totally random and couldn't come up with a > logical explanation. I just reprogram and roll with it...always seemed odd > though. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sue at midnitesolar.com Mon Jan 12 08:18:40 2026 From: Sue at midnitesolar.com (Sue Stankevitz) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 13:18:40 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the Classic the coin battery does not affect the solar programming of the unit, only the time and date. Did the FM have a date/time setting? I don’t recall for sure, if not it likely does not have a battery in the display. If only we could have boB back, he would know. Sue Stankevitz MidNite Solar, Inc. (360) 403-7207 (XT122) [cid:image001.gif at 01DC839B.3543FD50] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2026 11:48 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Tyrone Houck Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings Hmmm. I don't know..the ones I've seen do it never actually lost power. I had two at the same site do it and my intuition was that the mate was somehow responsible. On Sun, Jan 11, 2026, 8:34 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches > wrote: One of my customers thinks it happens after the charge controller loses power due to a battery BMS shutdown. And the other one, it did happen on the charge controller that was disconnected for a while for a new array being wired in. So... I'm wondering, how does the FM100 store programming data? Is it in some sort of memory that requires power? And if so, does it have a coin battery in there or how does it remember the settings when battery power is removed? I know this is a common thing in old ham radios of a certain vintage, that they have an internal coin battery to remember settings and after 5 or 10 years, it has to be replaced. The Midnite Classics also have the coin battery in the display... so, does the FM100 have something like this? Zeke From: Tyrone Houck > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have had that happen before on at least 3 different occasions. Specifically with the fm100. Totally random and couldn't come up with a logical explanation. I just reprogram and roll with it...always seemed odd though. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4417 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Mon Jan 12 14:28:08 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 11:28:08 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like this could happen. The (really) old SW input had an option to do this. Disconnect this. Do you have the manual? I might but not nearby now. Good Luck Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-10 1:12 pm, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: > Wrench, > > An off-grid installation of mine from many years ago has is now using > grid power instead of a generator. The utility is telling the homeowner > that they are going to disconnect him because his house is back feeding > 1 amp into their grid power. > > I've been retired for many years now and did not do any of the work to > connect the utility power to his Trace SW4024 inverter/charger. The > utility power became available when his son brought in utility power > for his maple sugaring operation in the neighborhood, and the father > connected power to his house to replace his fossil fueled generator for > additional charging into his battery bank. They do not have a grid > interconnect sellback agreement with the utility. > > I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that the utility grid > is seeing power from its input connection to his Trace SW4024. Does > that sound right? If so, is there a simple solution to fix this problem > while continuing to use the grid power through his SW inverter? > > Thanks for any advice that may help. > > David Palumbo > Hyde Park, VT > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Mon Jan 12 14:45:09 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 11:45:09 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9474f24048b17b99a05df7ed3b374c49@sti.net> Deselect grid sell or set sell amps to zero. A friend sent this. Good Luck! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-12 11:28 am, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote: > Sounds like this could happen. The (really) old SW input had an option > to do this. Disconnect this. Do you have the manual? I might but not > nearby now. Good Luck > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > On 2026-01-10 1:12 pm, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: > >> Wrench, >> >> An off-grid installation of mine from many years ago has is now using >> grid power instead of a generator. The utility is telling the >> homeowner that they are going to disconnect him because his house is >> back feeding 1 amp into their grid power. >> >> I've been retired for many years now and did not do any of the work to >> connect the utility power to his Trace SW4024 inverter/charger. The >> utility power became available when his son brought in utility power >> for his maple sugaring operation in the neighborhood, and the father >> connected power to his house to replace his fossil fueled generator >> for additional charging into his battery bank. They do not have a grid >> interconnect sellback agreement with the utility. >> >> I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that the utility grid >> is seeing power from its input connection to his Trace SW4024. Does >> that sound right? If so, is there a simple solution to fix this >> problem while continuing to use the grid power through his SW >> inverter? >> >> Thanks for any advice that may help. >> >> David Palumbo >> Hyde Park, VT >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Mon Jan 12 15:36:02 2026 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 12:36:02 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: <9474f24048b17b99a05df7ed3b374c49@sti.net> References: <9474f24048b17b99a05df7ed3b374c49@sti.net> Message-ID: <82930dc3-cb74-4ddb-b63e-821a25203ede@sindelarsolar.com> David, I have pdf copies of the Trace SW manuals, rev. 4.01 (the most widely used) and rev. 1.0 (the first from around 1993, seldom still in operation). If you need either one contact me off list. For a short period of time around 2002 there was a rev. 4.10 version of the SW that used a separate component called a Grid Tie Interface (GTI). The GTI was added to specifically address, as I recall, the possibility of grid backfeed when the AC input (from a generator, I think, but this may be incorrect) matched the AC output to the loads. It was an awkward and short-lived solution that was succeeded by the (also short-lived) SW+ series, before the XW series replaced it. I needed to include two of these in a GTBB (early Grid-Tie with Battery Backup) dual-inverter system that I installed for Jane Fonda at her New Mexico ranch. As Jerry says, fun times (way more fun than today, I suspect). Your simplest real-world solution, which the utility may or may not accept, is to run grid power into AC2, the generator input hot terminal. Then the inverter functions only as an input source. If the utility determined the 1A backfeed on the basis of its own test, a retest may be sufficient to ascertain that there's no longer the possibility of backfeed. Allan > > On 2026-01-12 11:28 am, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote: > >> Sounds like this could happen. The (really) old SW input had an >> option to do this. Disconnect this.  Do you have the manual?  I might >> but not nearby now.  Good Luck >> >> On 2026-01-10 1:12 pm, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Wrench, >> An off-grid installation of mine from many years ago has is now >> using grid power instead of a generator. The utility is telling >> the homeowner that they are going to disconnect him because his >> house is back feeding 1 amp into their grid power. >> I've been retired for many years now and did not do any of the >> work to connect the utility power to his Trace SW4024 >> inverter/charger. The utility power became available when his son >> brought in utility power for his maple sugaring operation in the >> neighborhood, and the father connected power to his house to >> replace his fossil fueled generator for additional charging into >> his battery bank. They do not have a grid interconnect sellback >> agreement with the utility. >> I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that the utility >> grid is seeing power from its input connection to his Trace >> SW4024. Does that sound right? If so, is there a simple solution >> to fix this problem while continuing to use the grid power >> through his SW inverter? >> Thanks for any advice that may help. >> David Palumbo >> Hyde Park, VT >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Mon Jan 12 17:18:44 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 14:18:44 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We did a test on one of them today. FM100 with a Mate3s, no internet connection. We powered it down (PV breaker and battery breaker) for about two hours while redoing some battery wiring. After powering it back up, we checked it, and all of the charge settings had gone back to factory defaults again. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Mon Jan 12 17:32:03 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 14:32:03 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Did the utility say that it was feeding back in 1A continuous, or had fed back in 1A at some point? With better metering, especially the new smartmeters, utilities are finding a lot of PV systems that are connected without authorization, by seeing tiny amounts of backfed power that used to be invisible. I had one SolArk system get caught. For the systems that operate in parallel with the utility doing zero sell it needs to have a certain offset for the minimum amount drawn from the utility, such that it doesn't inadvertently sell a little bit during readjustment during load changes. In the case of the SolArk system, it was set to 0 watts from the utility, and when the load changed, it would sell a little bit for a few seconds. This is enough for the utilities to see with the new meters, and lets them know that there is solar that they haven't been told about. I changed it to a 120 watt minimum draw from the utility, and it no longer overshoots zero during load changes now, but also draws power from the utility all of the time. We do have to get this system permitted and an interconnection agreement in place soon though, because now they know about it, and they are going to pull the customers service if he does not do that, or get rid of the solar completely. This is something that everyone should know, that operating in parallel with the grid without having an interconnection agreement is a risk. The only way to safely do solar without getting an interconnection agreement (and I think the only legal way) is to never have the solar operating in parallel with the grid, but have a transfer switch such that the solar is never connected to the utility. For many of the newer systems, connecting the grid to the generator input port instead of the grid port can accomplish this (though it varies from system to system -- some systems can operate in parallel with the generator too). But almost all of the new systems (all in ones, some operating modes of the Radian and XW) operate in parallel with the utility rather than switching back and forth, so when the grid is connected to the grid input of the inverter, it can potentially backfeed the grid, even if for only a second or less. The HBX/LBX modes of the SW and the Outback switch back and forth, rather than operating in parallel, and so should not have this issue. I think... I am not 100% certain even with these modes, although I've never seen them have an inadvertent sell issue, due to the inverter being off anytime it's connected to the grid. The transfer switch in this case would be inside of the inverter. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Mon Jan 12 22:07:25 2026 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 03:07:25 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: <9474f24048b17b99a05df7ed3b374c49@sti.net> References: <9474f24048b17b99a05df7ed3b374c49@sti.net> Message-ID: Make sure you are in FLT mode and not SELL mode. Or Make sure grid is hooked up to AC 2 if only used for battery charging. FLT mode should only offset grid usage but not sell excess. Refer to the Manual Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St. Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent from Jeremy's iPhone. On Jan 12, 2026, at 12:47 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:  Deselect grid sell or set sell amps to zero. A friend sent this. Good Luck! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" https://offgridsolar1.com/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-12 11:28 am, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote: Sounds like this could happen. The (really) old SW input had an option to do this. Disconnect this. Do you have the manual? I might but not nearby now. Good Luck Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" https://offgridsolar1.com/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-10 1:12 pm, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: Wrench, An off-grid installation of mine from many years ago has is now using grid power instead of a generator. The utility is telling the homeowner that they are going to disconnect him because his house is back feeding 1 amp into their grid power. I've been retired for many years now and did not do any of the work to connect the utility power to his Trace SW4024 inverter/charger. The utility power became available when his son brought in utility power for his maple sugaring operation in the neighborhood, and the father connected power to his house to replace his fossil fueled generator for additional charging into his battery bank. They do not have a grid interconnect sellback agreement with the utility. I have no experience with this, but I'm assuming that the utility grid is seeing power from its input connection to his Trace SW4024. Does that sound right? If so, is there a simple solution to fix this problem while continuing to use the grid power through his SW inverter? Thanks for any advice that may help. David Palumbo Hyde Park, VT _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon Jan 12 22:44:34 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 20:44:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67a18155-6106-4c9b-bc03-4f55cb9e6012@solarray.com> Back in the old days, when utilities routinely were a huge pain to work with, we just created a backup loads sub panel, and ran those circuits off grid, and used the grid in place of a generator.  No way to back feed, and the customer got the benefits of a reduced bill and backup power.  It was not as efficient though, especially with lead acid batteries. In Hawaii, many of the utility circuits are maxed out for solar penetration, and so its literally impossible to do a regular GT system on many parts of the islands anymore.  Those customers have to do setups like I described.  The trick to improving the efficiency, is having some dump loads to take the surplus PV power after the batteries are full, either water pumping to a cistern, extra heating or extra cooling, and have some thermal mass in the house to hold those extra BTUs (+ or -).  Here on the mainland, we're going to be doing stuff like that in the future. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 1/12/2026 3:32 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > Did the utility say that it was feeding back in 1A continuous, or had > fed back in 1A at some point? > > With better metering, especially the new smartmeters, utilities are > finding a lot of PV systems that are connected without authorization, > by seeing tiny amounts of backfed power that used to be invisible.  I > had one SolArk system get caught.  For the systems that operate in > parallel with the utility doing zero sell it needs to have a certain > offset for the minimum amount drawn from the utility, such that it > doesn't inadvertently sell a little bit during readjustment during > load changes.  In the case of the SolArk system, it was set to 0 watts > from the utility, and when the load changed, it would sell a little > bit for a few seconds.  This is enough for the utilities to see with > the new meters, and lets them know that there is solar that they > haven't been told about. I changed it to a 120 watt minimum draw from > the utility, and it no longer overshoots zero during load changes now, > but also draws power from the utility all of the time.  We do have to > get this system permitted and an interconnection agreement in place > soon though, because now they know about it, and they are going to > pull the customers service if he does not do that, or get rid of the > solar completely.  This is something that everyone should know, that > operating in parallel with the grid without having an interconnection > agreement is a risk. > > The only way to safely do solar without getting an interconnection > agreement (and I think the only legal way) is to never have the solar > operating in parallel with the grid, but have a transfer switch such > that the solar is never connected to the utility.  For many of the > newer systems, connecting the grid to the generator input port instead > of the grid port can accomplish this (though it varies from system to > system -- some systems can operate in parallel with the generator > too).  But almost all of the new systems (all in ones, some operating > modes of the Radian and XW) operate in parallel with the utility > rather than switching back and forth, so when the grid is connected to > the grid input of the inverter, it can potentially backfeed the grid, > even if for only a second or less. > > The HBX/LBX modes of the SW and the Outback switch back and forth, > rather than operating in parallel, and so should not have this issue.  > I think... I am not 100% certain even with these modes, although I've > never seen them have an inadvertent sell issue, due to the inverter > being off anytime it's connected to the grid.    The transfer switch > in this case would be inside of the inverter. > > Zeke > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jan 13 07:29:42 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 07:29:42 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT Nominal Voltage Won't Stick Message-ID: I have a new client with an existing Schneider dual XW Pro system with four MPPT 100 and two MPPT 60 charge controllers. They have a SCP, AGS, and Insight. The system is reporting DC over voltage faults on the two inverters (viewable via SCP. The battery voltage is not high. It's a bank of EG4 LL batteries that would hit their high battery cutoff well before the XW detects a high battery condition. I went through all of the setting and discovered that the two MPPT 60 were set to a nominal voltage of 36V. I fixed that by changing them to 48V and cleared the faults and all was well. I did this though the SCP. By the time I came home, however, the faults returned and the MPPT 60 both reverted to 36V nominal. I'm not sure why the DC over voltage faults are showing up on the XWs, but it seems related to the nominal voltage issue on the MPPT 60s. Any ideas? Schneider tech support has me wasting time today going for a boat ride to the site to put a meter on the battery terminals, when I know it's obviously not an actual battery voltage issue. I'm hoping to steer them in a different direction. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jan 13 07:35:33 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 07:35:33 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT Nominal Voltage Won't Stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I forgot to mention, I suspect that the Insight configuration might be overriding changes I made with the SCP. I'm going to try to change the nominal voltage with the local Insight interface today. I still don't understand why the XWs are reporting the fault. Maybe that's just the way the Xanbus network works - any MPPT can report to the XW that the DC bus is high. Jason On Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 7:29 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > I have a new client with an existing Schneider dual XW Pro system with > four MPPT 100 and two MPPT 60 charge controllers. They have a SCP, AGS, and > Insight. > > The system is reporting DC over voltage faults on the two inverters > (viewable via SCP. The battery voltage is not high. It's a bank of EG4 LL > batteries that would hit their high battery cutoff well before the XW > detects a high battery condition. > > I went through all of the setting and discovered that the two MPPT 60 were > set to a nominal voltage of 36V. I fixed that by changing them to 48V and > cleared the faults and all was well. I did this though the SCP. > > By the time I came home, however, the faults returned and the MPPT 60 both > reverted to 36V nominal. > > I'm not sure why the DC over voltage faults are showing up on the XWs, but > it seems related to the nominal voltage issue on the MPPT 60s. > > Any ideas? > > Schneider tech support has me wasting time today going for a boat ride to > the site to put a meter on the battery terminals, when I know it's > obviously not an actual battery voltage issue. I'm hoping to steer them in > a different direction. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jan 13 08:18:21 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 08:18:21 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: <67a18155-6106-4c9b-bc03-4f55cb9e6012@solarray.com> References: <67a18155-6106-4c9b-bc03-4f55cb9e6012@solarray.com> Message-ID: Well said. I have been running into scenarios where the customer either can't or doesn't want to backfeed the grid. Are any of the modern All in one inverters capable of absolutely zero export? We have one utility that throws an absolute hissy fit if even a tiny amount of backfeed occurs before permission to operate. With the big investor owned utility around here, we simply put new systems in no export mode until PTO is obtained, but the other utility almost always detects some small amount of back feed when we do that. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Jan 12, 2026, 10:46 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Back in the old days, when utilities routinely were a huge pain to work > with, we just created a backup loads sub panel, and ran those circuits > off grid, and used the grid in place of a generator. No way to back > feed, and the customer got the benefits of a reduced bill and backup > power. It was not as efficient though, especially with lead acid > batteries. > > In Hawaii, many of the utility circuits are maxed out for solar > penetration, and so its literally impossible to do a regular GT system > on many parts of the islands anymore. Those customers have to do setups > like I described. The trick to improving the efficiency, is having some > dump loads to take the surplus PV power after the batteries are full, > either water pumping to a cistern, extra heating or extra cooling, and > have some thermal mass in the house to hold those extra BTUs (+ or -). > Here on the mainland, we're going to be doing stuff like that in the > future. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > On 1/12/2026 3:32 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Did the utility say that it was feeding back in 1A continuous, or had > > fed back in 1A at some point? > > > > With better metering, especially the new smartmeters, utilities are > > finding a lot of PV systems that are connected without authorization, > > by seeing tiny amounts of backfed power that used to be invisible. I > > had one SolArk system get caught. For the systems that operate in > > parallel with the utility doing zero sell it needs to have a certain > > offset for the minimum amount drawn from the utility, such that it > > doesn't inadvertently sell a little bit during readjustment during > > load changes. In the case of the SolArk system, it was set to 0 watts > > from the utility, and when the load changed, it would sell a little > > bit for a few seconds. This is enough for the utilities to see with > > the new meters, and lets them know that there is solar that they > > haven't been told about. I changed it to a 120 watt minimum draw from > > the utility, and it no longer overshoots zero during load changes now, > > but also draws power from the utility all of the time. We do have to > > get this system permitted and an interconnection agreement in place > > soon though, because now they know about it, and they are going to > > pull the customers service if he does not do that, or get rid of the > > solar completely. This is something that everyone should know, that > > operating in parallel with the grid without having an interconnection > > agreement is a risk. > > > > The only way to safely do solar without getting an interconnection > > agreement (and I think the only legal way) is to never have the solar > > operating in parallel with the grid, but have a transfer switch such > > that the solar is never connected to the utility. For many of the > > newer systems, connecting the grid to the generator input port instead > > of the grid port can accomplish this (though it varies from system to > > system -- some systems can operate in parallel with the generator > > too). But almost all of the new systems (all in ones, some operating > > modes of the Radian and XW) operate in parallel with the utility > > rather than switching back and forth, so when the grid is connected to > > the grid input of the inverter, it can potentially backfeed the grid, > > even if for only a second or less. > > > > The HBX/LBX modes of the SW and the Outback switch back and forth, > > rather than operating in parallel, and so should not have this issue. > > I think... I am not 100% certain even with these modes, although I've > > never seen them have an inadvertent sell issue, due to the inverter > > being off anytime it's connected to the grid. The transfer switch > > in this case would be inside of the inverter. > > > > Zeke > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 08:52:35 2026 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 08:52:35 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW4024 feeding back to grid In-Reply-To: References: <67a18155-6106-4c9b-bc03-4f55cb9e6012@solarray.com> Message-ID: iI have a grid tied customer who does not want to sell to the power company. I set her up with a Radian set on Grid Zero but it did the small trickle out that the power company saw. The power company called her and said she was giving them free power and she should get a CPG and do the grid tie properly. I then set it to Mini Grid which treats the grid as a battery charger coming on at the preset voltage trigger. She has a backed up sub panel with all the critical loads, Mini Grid does not sell back at all and we are evaluating whether more batteries would make it more efficient, using the grid even less. Once we get to summer sun we might want to add more backed up circuits. A generator is also installed but never used yet except for testing. John Blittersdorf Off Grid Vermont On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 8:21 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Well said. I have been running into scenarios where the customer either > can't or doesn't want to backfeed the grid. Are any of the modern All in > one inverters capable of absolutely zero export? > > We have one utility that throws an absolute hissy fit if even a tiny > amount of backfeed occurs before permission to operate. With the big > investor owned utility around here, we simply put new systems in no export > mode until PTO is obtained, but the other utility almost always detects > some small amount of back feed when we do that. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2026, 10:46 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Back in the old days, when utilities routinely were a huge pain to work >> with, we just created a backup loads sub panel, and ran those circuits >> off grid, and used the grid in place of a generator. No way to back >> feed, and the customer got the benefits of a reduced bill and backup >> power. It was not as efficient though, especially with lead acid >> batteries. >> >> In Hawaii, many of the utility circuits are maxed out for solar >> penetration, and so its literally impossible to do a regular GT system >> on many parts of the islands anymore. Those customers have to do setups >> like I described. The trick to improving the efficiency, is having some >> dump loads to take the surplus PV power after the batteries are full, >> either water pumping to a cistern, extra heating or extra cooling, and >> have some thermal mass in the house to hold those extra BTUs (+ or -). >> Here on the mainland, we're going to be doing stuff like that in the >> future. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> >> On 1/12/2026 3:32 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: >> > Did the utility say that it was feeding back in 1A continuous, or had >> > fed back in 1A at some point? >> > >> > With better metering, especially the new smartmeters, utilities are >> > finding a lot of PV systems that are connected without authorization, >> > by seeing tiny amounts of backfed power that used to be invisible. I >> > had one SolArk system get caught. For the systems that operate in >> > parallel with the utility doing zero sell it needs to have a certain >> > offset for the minimum amount drawn from the utility, such that it >> > doesn't inadvertently sell a little bit during readjustment during >> > load changes. In the case of the SolArk system, it was set to 0 watts >> > from the utility, and when the load changed, it would sell a little >> > bit for a few seconds. This is enough for the utilities to see with >> > the new meters, and lets them know that there is solar that they >> > haven't been told about. I changed it to a 120 watt minimum draw from >> > the utility, and it no longer overshoots zero during load changes now, >> > but also draws power from the utility all of the time. We do have to >> > get this system permitted and an interconnection agreement in place >> > soon though, because now they know about it, and they are going to >> > pull the customers service if he does not do that, or get rid of the >> > solar completely. This is something that everyone should know, that >> > operating in parallel with the grid without having an interconnection >> > agreement is a risk. >> > >> > The only way to safely do solar without getting an interconnection >> > agreement (and I think the only legal way) is to never have the solar >> > operating in parallel with the grid, but have a transfer switch such >> > that the solar is never connected to the utility. For many of the >> > newer systems, connecting the grid to the generator input port instead >> > of the grid port can accomplish this (though it varies from system to >> > system -- some systems can operate in parallel with the generator >> > too). But almost all of the new systems (all in ones, some operating >> > modes of the Radian and XW) operate in parallel with the utility >> > rather than switching back and forth, so when the grid is connected to >> > the grid input of the inverter, it can potentially backfeed the grid, >> > even if for only a second or less. >> > >> > The HBX/LBX modes of the SW and the Outback switch back and forth, >> > rather than operating in parallel, and so should not have this issue. >> > I think... I am not 100% certain even with these modes, although I've >> > never seen them have an inadvertent sell issue, due to the inverter >> > being off anytime it's connected to the grid. The transfer switch >> > in this case would be inside of the inverter. >> > >> > Zeke >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Tue Jan 13 18:32:07 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 15:32:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT Nominal Voltage Won't Stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A guess is too many devices on the xanbus. Are you using Facility? The -60 reverting is a new one for me. Maybe isolate each one seperately in case one is malo. buenas suerte! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-13 4:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > I have a new client with an existing Schneider dual XW Pro system with > four MPPT 100 and two MPPT 60 charge controllers. They have a SCP, AGS, > and Insight. > > The system is reporting DC over voltage faults on the two inverters > (viewable via SCP. The battery voltage is not high. It's a bank of EG4 > LL batteries that would hit their high battery cutoff well before the > XW detects a high battery condition. > > I went through all of the setting and discovered that the two MPPT 60 > were set to a nominal voltage of 36V. I fixed that by changing them to > 48V and cleared the faults and all was well. I did this though the SCP. > > By the time I came home, however, the faults returned and the MPPT 60 > both reverted to 36V nominal. > > I'm not sure why the DC over voltage faults are showing up on the XWs, > but it seems related to the nominal voltage issue on the MPPT 60s. > > Any ideas? > > Schneider tech support has me wasting time today going for a boat ride > to the site to put a meter on the battery terminals, when I know it's > obviously not an actual battery voltage issue. I'm hoping to steer them > in a different direction. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jan 14 08:46:13 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 08:46:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT Nominal Voltage Won't Stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I updated the settings for all devices via InsightLocal and the settings are sticking now. I think there was some sort of conflict. When I changed settings via the SCP, they would not be reflected in InsightLocal, but when I changed settings in InsightLocal the settings would instantly change on the SCP. I think the source of the high DC voltage issue was something else, however. I discovered that all of the charge controllers were set to Flooded rather than Custom battery type (for LFP), and some of the charge controllers had equalization enabled. It was cloudy yesterday, so I have to wait until solar gets the batteries to 100%, hopefully today, to see if the high DC voltage issue comes back. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 6:33 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > A guess is too many devices on the xanbus. Are you using Facility? The > -60 reverting is a new one for me. Maybe isolate each one seperately in > case one is malo. > > buenas suerte! > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2026-01-13 4:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I have a new client with an existing Schneider dual XW Pro system with > four MPPT 100 and two MPPT 60 charge controllers. They have a SCP, AGS, and > Insight. > > The system is reporting DC over voltage faults on the two inverters > (viewable via SCP. The battery voltage is not high. It's a bank of EG4 LL > batteries that would hit their high battery cutoff well before the XW > detects a high battery condition. > > I went through all of the setting and discovered that the two MPPT 60 were > set to a nominal voltage of 36V. I fixed that by changing them to 48V and > cleared the faults and all was well. I did this though the SCP. > > By the time I came home, however, the faults returned and the MPPT 60 both > reverted to 36V nominal. > > I'm not sure why the DC over voltage faults are showing up on the XWs, but > it seems related to the nominal voltage issue on the MPPT 60s. > > Any ideas? > > Schneider tech support has me wasting time today going for a boat ride to > the site to put a meter on the battery terminals, when I know it's > obviously not an actual battery voltage issue. I'm hoping to steer them in > a different direction. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Wed Jan 14 10:01:21 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 10:01:21 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT Nominal Voltage Won't Stick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jan 14 10:07:05 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 10:07:05 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT Nominal Voltage Won't Stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's much easier to use Insight, but I didn't have the password initially, and resetting the InsightHome device always seems to give me issues with creating a new password. I eventually got into it. I can't even get the SCP to change the generator AGS mode from manual on to automatic. That is problematic because the homeowner can't change the setting with the SCP. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jan 14, 2026 at 10:01 AM Glenn wrote: > I have had this experience as well with a couple of Schneider systems. The > SCP doesn't seem to be the master when an Insight or gateway is on the > Xanbus. > > Generator settings and charge controller settings have not stuck. > > -Glenn > > On Jan 14, 2026 08:46, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I updated the settings for all devices via InsightLocal and the settings > are sticking now. I think there was some sort of conflict. When I changed > settings via the SCP, they would not be reflected in InsightLocal, but when > I changed settings in InsightLocal the settings would instantly change on > the SCP. > > I think the source of the high DC voltage issue was something else, > however. I discovered that all of the charge controllers were set to > Flooded rather than Custom battery type (for LFP), and some of the charge > controllers had equalization enabled. > > It was cloudy yesterday, so I have to wait until solar gets the batteries > to 100%, hopefully today, to see if the high DC voltage issue comes back. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2026 at 6:33 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via > RE-wrenches wrote: > > A guess is too many devices on the xanbus. Are you using Facility? The > -60 reverting is a new one for me. Maybe isolate each one seperately in > case one is malo. > > buenas suerte! > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2026-01-13 4:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I have a new client with an existing Schneider dual XW Pro system with > four MPPT 100 and two MPPT 60 charge controllers. They have a SCP, AGS, and > Insight. > > The system is reporting DC over voltage faults on the two inverters > (viewable via SCP. The battery voltage is not high. It's a bank of EG4 LL > batteries that would hit their high battery cutoff well before the XW > detects a high battery condition. > > I went through all of the setting and discovered that the two MPPT 60 were > set to a nominal voltage of 36V. I fixed that by changing them to 48V and > cleared the faults and all was well. I did this though the SCP. > > By the time I came home, however, the faults returned and the MPPT 60 both > reverted to 36V nominal. > > I'm not sure why the DC over voltage faults are showing up on the XWs, but > it seems related to the nominal voltage issue on the MPPT 60s. > > Any ideas? > > Schneider tech support has me wasting time today going for a boat ride to > the site to put a meter on the battery terminals, when I know it's > obviously not an actual battery voltage issue. I'm hoping to steer them in > a different direction. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Jan 14 10:22:20 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2026 09:22:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT Nominal Voltage Won't Stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Jan 21 12:07:44 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 17:07:44 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions Message-ID: Good day, I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a whole-house generator. We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:1fb26c10-eafa-43de-bf46-7cf013e788a8] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Wed Jan 21 12:23:50 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 09:23:50 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One way to find out... put a big load on the generator (so you don't actually backfeed it) then turn on the PV array and see if it'll synchronize with the generator. My understanding is that most generators under 100kW are not good enough power quality to trick a grid-tie inverter to thinking they are the grid, and the grid tie inverter will not turn on. Still.... we put isolation relays on systems with generators to keep the PV array from ever seeing generator power, or wire the PV array in upstream of the generator transfer switch. I did hear of SMA taking all of the safeties off the software for a string inverter, and it would backfeed a small generator just fine. It's the UL1741 safeties, not the electronics of the grid inverter that prevent it. They said the generator made the worse noises they'd ever heard when it was trying to sink 5kW of power instead of sourcing it. Probably would have self destructed after more than a few seconds. A lot of small diesel mini-grid systems on islands and up in Alaska do interface grid-tied inverters with diesel generators, in the 50kW to 1MW range. But they usually have special addiitional controls to allow this and prevent backfeeding the generator. And they have to open up the UL1741 grid window to allow the grid tie inverters to connect. This was all before zero sell was a common thing though, so I wonder if a zero sell grid-tie inverter could do it with just the grid window opened up. This would only work if you were off grid... probably could be be modifying the grid window if you still had grid sometimes. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jan 21 14:24:27 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:24:27 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, but I would not take the risk. I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop could be fast enough. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good day, > > I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 > microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it > might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a > whole-house generator. > > We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all > the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and > generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the > solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. > > But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer > switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the > grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching > capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator > when it is operating for a grid anomaly? > > I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got > me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease > production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Wed Jan 21 15:16:31 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 15:16:31 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced energy, it can destroy the generator controller. That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the > grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is > detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the > generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, > but I would not take the risk. > > I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not > exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the > Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the > CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop > could be fast enough. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Good day, >> >> I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 >> microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it >> might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a >> whole-house generator. >> >> We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all >> the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and >> generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the >> solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. >> >> But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer >> switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the >> grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching >> capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator >> when it is operating for a grid anomaly? >> >> I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability >> got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to >> cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system >> design? >> >> >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jan 21 15:33:49 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 15:33:49 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced > energy, it can destroy the generator controller. > That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling > input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. > > The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC > coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the >> grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is >> detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the >> generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, >> but I would not take the risk. >> >> I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not >> exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the >> Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the >> CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop >> could be fast enough. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Good day, >>> >>> I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 >>> microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it >>> might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a >>> whole-house generator. >>> >>> We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but >>> all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and >>> generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the >>> solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. >>> >>> But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the >>> transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to >>> when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast >>> switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a >>> generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? >>> >>> I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability >>> got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to >>> cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system >>> design? >>> >>> >>> >>> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >>> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >>> >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> TECL 29755 >>> 254-300-1228 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Jan 21 15:45:28 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 20:45:28 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the generator/ATS. Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of the ATS. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches > wrote: If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced energy, it can destroy the generator controller. That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, but I would not take the risk. I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop could be fast enough. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches > wrote: Good day, I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a whole-house generator. We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:ii_19be1feaa67db86b3cf1] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Wed Jan 21 15:55:01 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 12:55:01 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In that case, we're getting way off track and way more complicated :P Just put a contactor between the PV array and the POI using the NC contacts, with the coil powered off the generator. Then the PV array can never backfeed the generator because it'll be turned off anytime the generator is running. Zeke ------------------ Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the generator/ATS. Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of the ATS. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Jan 21 16:00:33 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 21:00:33 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So I like this concept but if I was physically close from solar to gen then I'd just add dedicated PV conductors and move PoI to gen line side. But solar is on other side of home separated only by Texas hard scrabble rock that is nearly impervious to trenching. Now if I had wireless controlled contactors....??? Is such a thing made? Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:55 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Zeke Yewdall Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In that case, we're getting way off track and way more complicated :P Just put a contactor between the PV array and the POI using the NC contacts, with the coil powered off the generator. Then the PV array can never backfeed the generator because it'll be turned off anytime the generator is running. Zeke ------------------ Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the generator/ATS. Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of the ATS. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Wed Jan 21 16:07:04 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 16:07:04 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Control by web. rock solid not cloud based. https://controlbyweb.com/relays/ On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 4:05 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > So I like this concept but if I was physically close from solar to gen > then I'd just add dedicated PV conductors and move PoI to gen line side. > But solar is on other side of home separated only by Texas hard scrabble > rock that is nearly impervious to trenching. > > Now if I had wireless controlled contactors....??? Is such a thing made? > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:55 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Zeke Yewdall > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > In that case, we're getting way off track and way more complicated :P > > Just put a contactor between the PV array and the POI using the NC > contacts, with the coil powered off the generator. Then the PV array can > never backfeed the generator because it'll be turned off anytime the > generator is running. > > Zeke > > ------------------ > > > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS > where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of > the ATS. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > 254-300-1228 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Wed Jan 21 17:00:07 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 14:00:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And in this case, with all the Ice storm doom and gloom coming, to alot of the country, inform your users how to turn off their array and run a generator safely! Offgrid is just so much easier sometimes. 😉 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-21 12:55 pm, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > In that case, we're getting way off track and way more complicated :P > > Just put a contactor between the PV array and the POI using the NC > contacts, with the coil powered off the generator. Then the PV array > can never backfeed the generator because it'll be turned off anytime > the generator is running. > > Zeke > > ------------------ > > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without > ESS where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line > side of the ATS. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Wed Jan 21 18:39:47 2026 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 15:39:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Scot - I would think that the easiest solution is to just tie the solar into the utility side of the ATS. I understand that is what you are trying to avoid. Otherwise, you could set up the PV system in non-export , but that would negate potential NEM or utility excess energy credits, if they exist in your neck of the woods. Otherwise I think it is potentially bad news to backfeed a generator! I just had an electrician call me on a site where this happened and it caused voltage instability on the site. Best, August On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:47 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS > where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of > the ATS. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with > its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and > generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong > about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing > specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their > ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced > energy, it can destroy the generator controller. > That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling > input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. > > The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC > coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the > grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is > detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the > generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, > but I would not take the risk. > > I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not > exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the > Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the > CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop > could be fast enough. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Good day, > > I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 > microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it > might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a > whole-house generator. > > We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all > the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and > generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the > solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. > > But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer > switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the > grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching > capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator > when it is operating for a grid anomaly? > > I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got > me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease > production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 18:44:41 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 16:44:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10A1CCC0-B1D6-49A5-8AC9-769BC483814B@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Thu Jan 22 07:43:29 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 07:43:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008ede98-4584-434a-8442-76c2ec1a7881@entech-engineering.com> Hi Scot, I am not familiar with the term MI, what does it mean? Thank you, Chris On 1/21/2026 12:07 PM, scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches wrote: > Good day, > > I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 > microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered > if it might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a > whole-house generator. > > We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but > all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch > and generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to > carry the solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. > > But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the > transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow > to when the grid is not available...but  then I thought back to that > fast switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't > backfeed a generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? > > I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability > got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI > to cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS > system design? > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Thu Jan 22 08:23:35 2026 From: travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com (Travis Knipple) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 15:23:35 +0200 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Renon XCellent+ Battery Connections Message-ID: Hi wrenches, The Renon Xcellent Plus battery unit has a special connector that is rated for 2/0 CU battery cables, but when trying to build cable with fine-stranded copper (type MTW), it is extremely difficult to get all the strands into the connector (and is a known complaint to their tech support) Anyhow have any tips or tricks for fitting finely stranded copper conductors into this connector? -Travis -- Travis Knipple Senior Engineer Hudson Solar Solutions LLC Rhinebeck, NY 12572 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com PVIP# PV-111821-013612 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 08:35:06 2026 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 06:35:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Scot, What type of generator? Generac has a load shed module that can shed a load remotely by "knowing" when the generator is providing voltage. Small dip switches can be set to completely lock out the load when running on generator voltage. Generac Smart management module is the product name. There are also another product from PSP called the SAK-60 that supposedly can do this with any generator type (no direct experience with this). On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:01 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > And in this case, with all the Ice storm doom and gloom coming, to alot of > the country, inform your users how to turn off their array and run a > generator safely! > > Offgrid is just so much easier sometimes. > > 😉 > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2026-01-21 12:55 pm, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > > In that case, we're getting way off track and way more complicated :P > > Just put a contactor between the PV array and the POI using the NC > contacts, with the coil powered off the generator. Then the PV array can > never backfeed the generator because it'll be turned off anytime the > generator is running. > > Zeke > > ------------------ > > > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS > where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of > the ATS. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > 254-300-1228 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Thu Jan 22 08:43:19 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 13:43:19 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: <008ede98-4584-434a-8442-76c2ec1a7881@entech-engineering.com> References: <008ede98-4584-434a-8442-76c2ec1a7881@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: MI = microinverter Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2026 6:43 AM To: scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches Cc: Christopher Warfel Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions Hi Scot, I am not familiar with the term MI, what does it mean? Thank you, Chris On 1/21/2026 12:07 PM, scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches wrote: Good day, I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a whole-house generator. We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:part1.eLWTUprU.iJIHgygU at entech-engineering.com] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Thu Jan 22 08:52:42 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 08:52:42 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Renon XCellent+ Battery Connections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5f95e7b5-eb2e-45a4-9d83-eb611b8ff3c6@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Thu Jan 22 08:55:09 2026 From: travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com (Travis Knipple) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 15:55:09 +0200 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Renon XCellent+ Battery Connections In-Reply-To: <5f95e7b5-eb2e-45a4-9d83-eb611b8ff3c6@email.android.com> References: <5f95e7b5-eb2e-45a4-9d83-eb611b8ff3c6@email.android.com> Message-ID: That was confirmed with their tech support team, though I haven't seen any spec sheets for th connector as an individual component. Travis Knipple Senior Engineer Hudson Solar Solutions LLC Rhinebeck, NY 12572 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com PVIP# PV-111821-013612 On Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 15:52 Glenn wrote: > Are you sure it's listed for use with finely stranded cable? > > -Glenn > > On Jan 22, 2026 08:23, Travis Knipple via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi wrenches, > The Renon Xcellent Plus battery unit has a special connector that is rated > for 2/0 CU battery cables, but when trying to build cable with > fine-stranded copper (type MTW), it is extremely difficult to get all the > strands into the connector (and is a known complaint to their tech support) > Anyhow have any tips or tricks for fitting finely stranded copper > conductors into this connector? > > -Travis > > -- > Travis Knipple > Senior Engineer > Hudson Solar Solutions LLC > Rhinebeck, NY 12572 > 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com > > PVIP# PV-111821-013612 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 09:00:03 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 07:00:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Renon XCellent+ Battery Connections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99F55450-9CB4-4825-B2D3-35327D60EA3C@gmail.com> Have you tried the double stripping insulation method? Cut the insulation needed and remove minus 1/4" Then cut a 1/4” wide piece so it will slide on the copper. slide it to the end or with just a small mount of copper sticking out and that should allow the wire to slide into the fitting. Then push the 1/4” part back so it slides all the way and cut it off when easy. I sure hate when companies can’t figure out metric from SAE sizes. Doesn’t provide a lot of confidence. > On Jan 22, 2026, at 6:23 AM, Travis Knipple via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi wrenches, > The Renon Xcellent Plus battery unit has a special connector that is rated for 2/0 CU battery cables, but when trying to build cable with fine-stranded copper (type MTW), it is extremely difficult to get all the strands into the connector (and is a known complaint to their tech support) > Anyhow have any tips or tricks for fitting finely stranded copper conductors into this connector? > > -Travis > > -- > Travis Knipple > Senior Engineer > Hudson Solar Solutions LLC > Rhinebeck, NY 12572 > 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com > > > PVIP# PV-111821-013612 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump3391 at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 09:18:00 2026 From: tump3391 at gmail.com (Blair May) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 09:18:00 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Renon XCellent+ Battery Connections In-Reply-To: References: <5f95e7b5-eb2e-45a4-9d83-eb611b8ff3c6@email.android.com> Message-ID: <06289BC6-A235-4545-9296-3F7A2ED06CCC@gmail.com> Cut 2 circular cuts in the insulation, the first about 1/2" from the end, then another 1 aprox 1/8th" wide from your first cut (away from the lug end). Then remove the 1/2" end away (the 1 closet to the lug end) then use the 1/8" wide insulation towards the cable end and slide towards the lug end, it will compress the strands allowing you to easily install the strands into a lug. I will use No-Ox ID, a wire grease, to also tame the strands. Jay were aging ourselves! Tump > On Jan 22, 2026, at 8:55 AM, Travis Knipple via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > That was confirmed with their tech support team, though I haven't seen any spec sheets for th connector as an individual component. > > Travis Knipple > Senior Engineer > Hudson Solar Solutions LLC > Rhinebeck, NY 12572 > 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com > > > PVIP# PV-111821-013612 > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2026, 15:52 Glenn > wrote: > Are you sure it's listed for use with finely stranded cable? > > -Glenn > > On Jan 22, 2026 08:23, Travis Knipple via RE-wrenches > wrote: > Hi wrenches, > The Renon Xcellent Plus battery unit has a special connector that is rated for 2/0 CU battery cables, but when trying to build cable with fine-stranded copper (type MTW), it is extremely difficult to get all the strands into the connector (and is a known complaint to their tech support) > Anyhow have any tips or tricks for fitting finely stranded copper conductors into this connector? > > -Travis > > -- > Travis Knipple > Senior Engineer > Hudson Solar Solutions LLC > Rhinebeck, NY 12572 > 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com > > > PVIP# PV-111821-013612 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Blair “TUMP” May Solarwinds Northernlights east "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we all will perish as fools." MLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Thu Jan 22 09:23:36 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 14:23:36 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Generac. I thought that load shed function was based on frequency downward deviation caused by heavy loads so perhaps this might cut solar at the only theoretically possible point where solar might be acceptable: high loads. I'm at the point thinking what I tell folks all the time: don't interconnect solar downstream of the generator ATS. Sigh...was trying to minimize costs to customer in this post-tax credit world but these pesky generators. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2026 7:35 AM To: offgridsolar at sti.net ; RE-wrenches Cc: Mac Lewis Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions Hello Scot, What type of generator? Generac has a load shed module that can shed a load remotely by "knowing" when the generator is providing voltage. Small dip switches can be set to completely lock out the load when running on generator voltage. Generac Smart management module is the product name. There are also another product from PSP called the SAK-60 that supposedly can do this with any generator type (no direct experience with this). On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:01 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches > wrote: And in this case, with all the Ice storm doom and gloom coming, to alot of the country, inform your users how to turn off their array and run a generator safely! Offgrid is just so much easier sometimes. 😉 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" https://offgridsolar1.com/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-21 12:55 pm, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: In that case, we're getting way off track and way more complicated :P Just put a contactor between the PV array and the POI using the NC contacts, with the coil powered off the generator. Then the PV array can never backfeed the generator because it'll be turned off anytime the generator is running. Zeke ------------------ Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the generator/ATS. Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of the ATS. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 09:37:08 2026 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 07:37:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Generac SMM can be set up to lock out any time the generator is running. Its a relatively easy device to install and should work fine. On Thu, Jan 22, 2026 at 7:24 AM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Generac. > > I thought that load shed function was based on frequency downward > deviation caused by heavy loads so perhaps this might cut solar at the only > theoretically possible point where solar might be acceptable: high loads. > > I'm at the point thinking what I tell folks all the time: don't > interconnect solar downstream of the generator ATS. Sigh...was trying to > minimize costs to customer in this post-tax credit world but these pesky > generators. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, January 22, 2026 7:35 AM > *To:* offgridsolar at sti.net ; RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Cc:* Mac Lewis > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > Hello Scot, > > What type of generator? > > Generac has a load shed module that can shed a load remotely by "knowing" > when the generator is providing voltage. Small dip switches can be set to > completely lock out the load when running on generator voltage. Generac > Smart management module is the product name. There are also another > product from PSP called the SAK-60 that supposedly can do this with any > generator type (no direct experience with this). > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:01 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via > RE-wrenches wrote: > > And in this case, with all the Ice storm doom and gloom coming, to alot of > the country, inform your users how to turn off their array and run a > generator safely! > > Offgrid is just so much easier sometimes. > > 😉 > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2026-01-21 12:55 pm, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > > In that case, we're getting way off track and way more complicated :P > > Just put a contactor between the PV array and the POI using the NC > contacts, with the coil powered off the generator. Then the PV array can > never backfeed the generator because it'll be turned off anytime the > generator is running. > > Zeke > > ------------------ > > > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS > where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of > the ATS. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > 254-300-1228 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Thu Jan 22 10:38:52 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 10:38:52 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: <008ede98-4584-434a-8442-76c2ec1a7881@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <8c020340-4588-4b89-ab09-0661f0121298@entech-engineering.com> Gah, thank you. On 1/22/2026 8:43 AM, scot.arey at solarcentex.com wrote: > MI = microinverter > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on > behalf of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > > *Sent:* Thursday, January 22, 2026 6:43 AM > *To:* scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Christopher Warfel > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a > generator during grid interruptions > > Hi Scot, I am not familiar with the term MI, what does it mean?  Thank > you, Chris > > > > On 1/21/2026 12:07 PM, scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Good day, >> >> I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 >> microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered >> if it might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by >> a whole-house generator. >> >> We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but >> all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch >> and generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to >> carry the solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. >> >> But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the >> transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to >> flow to when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to >> that fast switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 >> don't backfeed a generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? >> >> I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of >> capability got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what >> tells the MI to cease production? - when it is within a full and >> proper ISC/ESS system design? >> >> >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-cjrhro0j.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 11:24:57 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2026 09:24:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] midnite solar inverter install In-Reply-To: <8c020340-4588-4b89-ab09-0661f0121298@entech-engineering.com> References: <008ede98-4584-434a-8442-76c2ec1a7881@entech-engineering.com> <8c020340-4588-4b89-ab09-0661f0121298@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <8CAE6DCA-9019-45B1-BEE7-276A3AE7752F@gmail.com> Hi All I may have a midnite rosie and hawks bay install. I’m wondering is that any online videos about the programming? I can’t find any Its going to be super easy, fully off grid, with generator but not AGS. thx jay From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Jan 23 12:43:58 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2026 12:43:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. In-Reply-To: <127dc5a7b9a1623f12eadc2931db1dc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <5e45555d26469d1c033400d609559127@mail.gmail.com> <50bf396a-4f5b-42bc-9f61-35a89d651dfc@coveoregon.com> <127dc5a7b9a1623f12eadc2931db1dc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William, All, I was at a workshop on the (sort of) new Fortress battery product the other day. I brought up this very issue of the terminal lugs of the Envy not accepting a 4/0 ferrule, even though 4/0 cable with ferrules are recommended in the manual. The instructor had no comment, except to imply that maybe one should use 3/0 max. Huh? Anyway these Greaves pin adapters are by far the best I've found for working with the 4/0 terminal block. The pin diameter matches 4/0 cable and thus fits great. Preferable IMO to a reduced 4/0 barrel to 2/0 pin of AL or AL-clad others. And the barrel has a generous flange which makes it quite easy to insert high-strand flex cable. #PT 222FX40. But @ $50 ea, not cheap. [image: image.png] On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 7:10 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > My understanding is if the lug has a set-screw that contacts the strands, > fine strands can wind around the set screw, get into the threads and not > tighten adequately. If you are crimping fine strands inside of some type > of barrel your connection should be OK. > > > > I had been using Outback until they imploded and all of the battery > connections were via studs or bolts that required crimped-on rings. Now I > am back to set screw lugs and fine stranding became an issue again. > > > > I did try another experiment: I took a 4/0 ferrule that would not fit into > the Envy lugs and snipped a section out of it. I curled it into a slightly > smaller diameter and it fit into the lug. I suppose one could cut the > ferrule in half longitudinally and insert a portion of the ferrule between > the set screw and the strands. > > > > I am pleased with the copper sheeting wrapped around the fine strands. > That will be my SOP. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 3, 2025 1:40 PM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Ray Walters > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. > > > > I've got to ask: Are none of the lugs on these Chinese inverters approved > for fine strand cable? I just have not had a problem with that, but I've > mostly used Magnum, Midnite, and Outback equipment over the years. What > were the lugs on the old Trace DC 250 boxes? Were they fine strand rated? > They sure were tough to get 4/0 into, as William mentioned. > > Ray > Remote Solar > > On 9/3/2025 12:57 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote: > > William, > > If the only reason the ferrule wouldn't fit after using the hex crimper > was the ridge left where the dies meet, you could rotate the cable 120 > degrees and crimp the ferrule again. > > I doubt that the indenter crimper will do a decent job with large ferrules. > > I do like your thin piece of copper solution. Not UL approved but I dare > say wrench approved. > > Kent Osterberg > Blue Mountain Solar > > > > On 9/2/2025 8:55 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Friends: > > > > Thank you for all of your input on this question. I feel it only right I > report back how this turned out > > > > I tried a crimper like this: > > > > > > > > It left a jagged ridge on both sides of the ferrule where the dies met. > > > > The crimper below was suggested but I have not tried it: > > > > This was suggested but I have not tried it either: > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 268372 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Sue at midnitesolar.com Fri Jan 23 14:44:47 2026 From: Sue at midnitesolar.com (Sue Stankevitz) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2026 19:44:47 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] midnite solar inverter install In-Reply-To: <8CAE6DCA-9019-45B1-BEE7-276A3AE7752F@gmail.com> References: <008ede98-4584-434a-8442-76c2ec1a7881@entech-engineering.com> <8c020340-4588-4b89-ab09-0661f0121298@entech-engineering.com> <8CAE6DCA-9019-45B1-BEE7-276A3AE7752F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, We offer a number of webinars that discuss generic programming of the Rosie but if there is something specific you would like a walk through on just reach out to me and I can have our team create a video. Sue Stankevitz MidNite Solar, Inc. (360) 403-7207 (XT122) -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of jay via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2026 11:25 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: jay Subject: [RE-wrenches] midnite solar inverter install Hi All I may have a midnite rosie and hawks bay install. I’m wondering is that any online videos about the programming? I can’t find any Its going to be super easy, fully off grid, with generator but not AGS. thx jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 08:31:04 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2026 06:31:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From berkeleysolar at outlook.com Sat Jan 24 10:14:51 2026 From: berkeleysolar at outlook.com (Mark Frye) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2026 15:14:51 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need - REC420AA PURE 2 Message-ID: Folks, I am in the market for qty. 30 - REC420AA PURE 2 modules. Please let me know if you have a line on some of these. Thanks, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat Jan 24 10:15:14 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2026 10:15:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Before investing in the Greaves adapters, I previously bought both normal and narrow 4/0 ferrules. Neither fit the 4/0 max terminal block of the Fortress Envy. On Sat, Jan 24, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I got curious about ferrules. > > Turns out they come in different physical sizes for the same wire size. > > I’ve found .63” and .69” OD for 4/0 wire. > > With .69 being more normal and. .64 called small diameter > > Try measuring what you’ve got. Or the actual diameter in the inverter. > > I’m mean no excuse for the rep being clueless > > Jay > > > > On Jan 23, 2026, at 10:46 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > William, All, > > I was at a workshop on the (sort of) new Fortress battery product the > other day. I brought up this very > issue of the terminal lugs of the Envy not accepting a 4/0 ferrule, even > though 4/0 cable with ferrules are recommended in the manual. The > instructor had no comment, except to imply that maybe one should use 3/0 > max. Huh? > > Anyway these Greaves pin adapters are by far the best I've found for > working with the 4/0 terminal block. > The pin diameter matches 4/0 cable and thus fits great. Preferable IMO to > a reduced 4/0 barrel to 2/0 pin of AL or AL-clad others. And the barrel has > a generous flange which makes it quite easy to insert high-strand flex > cable. > #PT 222FX40. But @ $50 ea, not cheap. > > > > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 7:10 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Friends: >> >> >> >> My understanding is if the lug has a set-screw that contacts the strands, >> fine strands can wind around the set screw, get into the threads and not >> tighten adequately. If you are crimping fine strands inside of some type >> of barrel your connection should be OK. >> >> >> >> I had been using Outback until they imploded and all of the battery >> connections were via studs or bolts that required crimped-on rings. Now I >> am back to set screw lugs and fine stranding became an issue again. >> >> >> >> I did try another experiment: I took a 4/0 ferrule that would not fit >> into the Envy lugs and snipped a section out of it. I curled it into a >> slightly smaller diameter and it fit into the lug. I suppose one could cut >> the ferrule in half longitudinally and insert a portion of the ferrule >> between the set screw and the strands. >> >> >> >> I am pleased with the copper sheeting wrapped around the fine strands. >> That will be my SOP. >> >> >> >> William >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 3, 2025 1:40 PM >> *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> *Cc:* Ray Walters >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. >> >> >> >> I've got to ask: Are none of the lugs on these Chinese inverters approved >> for fine strand cable? I just have not had a problem with that, but I've >> mostly used Magnum, Midnite, and Outback equipment over the years. What >> were the lugs on the old Trace DC 250 boxes? Were they fine strand rated? >> They sure were tough to get 4/0 into, as William mentioned. >> >> Ray >> Remote Solar >> >> On 9/3/2025 12:57 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> William, >> >> If the only reason the ferrule wouldn't fit after using the hex crimper >> was the ridge left where the dies meet, you could rotate the cable 120 >> degrees and crimp the ferrule again. >> >> I doubt that the indenter crimper will do a decent job with large >> ferrules. >> >> I do like your thin piece of copper solution. Not UL approved but I dare >> say wrench approved. >> >> Kent Osterberg >> Blue Mountain Solar >> >> >> >> On 9/2/2025 8:55 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Friends: >> >> >> >> Thank you for all of your input on this question. I feel it only right I >> report back how this turned out >> >> >> >> I tried a crimper like this: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It left a jagged ridge on both sides of the ferrule where the dies met. >> >> >> >> The crimper below was suggested but I have not tried it: >> >> >> >> This was suggested but I have not tried it either: >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Jan 24 15:34:57 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2026 15:34:57 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) Message-ID: I have a triple stack of off-grid Midnite AIO connected to a 60 kWh lithionics battery bank (51.2V LFP) in open loop. Today the site had BMS shutdowns (there are two BMSs, one for each 30 kWh stack of batteries). Both BMSs shut down about 90 minutes after the solar got the batteries to 100% and were just meeting loads with solar. I got some data from Solar Assistant (attached) that shows erratic voltage readings from each of the three inverters. This has never happened at this site before. Some of the voltage readings exceeded 60V, which I am guessing caused one or both BMS to shut off and come back on, possibly quickly. I do see some solar charging spikes, so it looks like the inverters would detect a low battery state and start charging, raising the voltage of the batteries quickly, and the process repeating itself. Any ideas on what the source of the problem might be? Thanks, Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 1149.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 113697 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 1148.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 668738 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 1151.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 135101 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 1150.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 110360 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 17:22:06 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2026 15:22:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5866FDA8-B061-4B82-B2C8-1CFC761EA5C0@gmail.com> I don’t understand how 3 inverters on a single buss could be recording such wildly different dc voltage readings. Regardless if the inverters are independent or paralleled. I don’t have those battereis specs but would expect absorb if there is any to be less than 90 minutes? Or did the issue occur at the exact end of absorb? What a pain. Jay > On Jan 24, 2026, at 1:36 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > I have a triple stack of off-grid Midnite AIO connected to a 60 kWh lithionics battery bank (51.2V LFP) in open loop. Today the site had BMS shutdowns (there are two BMSs, one for each 30 kWh stack of batteries). Both BMSs shut down about 90 minutes after the solar got the batteries to 100% and were just meeting loads with solar. > > I got some data from Solar Assistant (attached) that shows erratic voltage readings from each of the three inverters. This has never happened at this site before. Some of the voltage readings exceeded 60V, which I am guessing caused one or both BMS to shut off and come back on, possibly quickly. > > I do see some solar charging spikes, so it looks like the inverters would detect a low battery state and start charging, raising the voltage of the batteries quickly, and the process repeating itself. > > Any ideas on what the source of the problem might be? > > Thanks, > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Jan 24 17:52:40 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2026 17:52:40 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: <5866FDA8-B061-4B82-B2C8-1CFC761EA5C0@gmail.com> References: <5866FDA8-B061-4B82-B2C8-1CFC761EA5C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: I imagine the readings are being taken at slightly different intervals. The sampling is 10 seconds for Solar Assistant. Speaking of absorb, I noticed that there is an absorb and float setting for the Midnite AIO, but no absorb time setting. These batteries have never dropped to float. They just sit at absorb voltage once it's reached each day. I can't figure out how to get them to drop to float, but there hasn't been any adverse effects until now. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sat, Jan 24, 2026, 5:22 PM Jay wrote: > I don’t understand how 3 inverters on a single buss could be recording > such wildly different dc voltage readings. Regardless if the inverters are > independent or paralleled. > > I don’t have those battereis specs but would expect absorb if there is any > to be less than 90 minutes? > Or did the issue occur at the exact end of absorb? > > What a pain. > > Jay > > > > On Jan 24, 2026, at 1:36 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > I have a triple stack of off-grid Midnite AIO connected to a 60 kWh > lithionics battery bank (51.2V LFP) in open loop. Today the site had BMS > shutdowns (there are two BMSs, one for each 30 kWh stack of batteries). > Both BMSs shut down about 90 minutes after the solar got the batteries to > 100% and were just meeting loads with solar. > > I got some data from Solar Assistant (attached) that shows erratic voltage > readings from each of the three inverters. This has never happened at this > site before. Some of the voltage readings exceeded 60V, which I am guessing > caused one or both BMS to shut off and come back on, possibly quickly. > > I do see some solar charging spikes, so it looks like the inverters would > detect a low battery state and start charging, raising the voltage of the > batteries quickly, and the process repeating itself. > > Any ideas on what the source of the problem might be? > > Thanks, > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Jan 25 12:18:44 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 12:18:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: <5866FDA8-B061-4B82-B2C8-1CFC761EA5C0@gmail.com> Message-ID: I backed the absorb voltage down to 56.4V from 57.6V. today the batteries reached the desired absorb voltage, dropped down, jumped around a small amount for about 10 minutes, and then settled around 55.5V (even though the desired float voltage is set to 53.4V). But it's stable now. I don't understand why the float setpoint isn't being respected, but I didn't have that erratic behavior today, and the BMSs are just fine. The voltages reported by the three AIOs have always been a couple of tenths off from highest to lowest. Maybe yesterday was just a weird anomaly, but I do think the battery BMSs did see spikes above 60V and shut down for protection. That's the only thing I can think of. I'm continuing to monitor and will report back with and findings. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sat, Jan 24, 2026, 5:52 PM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > I imagine the readings are being taken at slightly different intervals. > The sampling is 10 seconds for Solar Assistant. > > Speaking of absorb, I noticed that there is an absorb and float setting > for the Midnite AIO, but no absorb time setting. These batteries have never > dropped to float. They just sit at absorb voltage once it's reached each > day. I can't figure out how to get them to drop to float, but there hasn't > been any adverse effects until now. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Sat, Jan 24, 2026, 5:22 PM Jay wrote: > >> I don’t understand how 3 inverters on a single buss could be recording >> such wildly different dc voltage readings. Regardless if the inverters are >> independent or paralleled. >> >> I don’t have those battereis specs but would expect absorb if there is >> any to be less than 90 minutes? >> Or did the issue occur at the exact end of absorb? >> >> What a pain. >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> On Jan 24, 2026, at 1:36 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> I have a triple stack of off-grid Midnite AIO connected to a 60 kWh >> lithionics battery bank (51.2V LFP) in open loop. Today the site had BMS >> shutdowns (there are two BMSs, one for each 30 kWh stack of batteries). >> Both BMSs shut down about 90 minutes after the solar got the batteries to >> 100% and were just meeting loads with solar. >> >> I got some data from Solar Assistant (attached) that shows erratic >> voltage readings from each of the three inverters. This has never happened >> at this site before. Some of the voltage readings exceeded 60V, which I am >> guessing caused one or both BMS to shut off and come back on, possibly >> quickly. >> >> I do see some solar charging spikes, so it looks like the inverters would >> detect a low battery state and start charging, raising the voltage of the >> batteries quickly, and the process repeating itself. >> >> Any ideas on what the source of the problem might be? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20260125_121207_Chrome.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 498139 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Jan 25 12:40:37 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 09:40:37 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of 57.6 volts This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery. I am used to using 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 cell LFP. I suspect that the 57.6 is the protection voltage of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb voltage setting. I have seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec sheets, where they give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb voltages when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER let the BMS do anything. if the BMS shuts off charging, that means that I already failed... the charge controller or inverter should have stopped charging before the BMS feels the need to protect the cells. Same with low voltage disconnect... if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- I should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of discharge to protect the cells. The BMS is like an airbag...only to react in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't work properly. Open loop equipment (all of the traditional outback/magnum/schneider, etc stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop setup) is designed to always have a battery in the system to stabilize the DC bus voltage. Without the stabilizing effect of the battery, voltage spikes can occur. I find that many charge controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but charging from inverters is more questionable, and especially charging from any DC generators can cause severe spikes if the battery disconnects. I have fried equipment when a lithium battery disconnected from a large kohler DC generator and the generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from spiking to 75 volts or more. This is why you never want the BMS to disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never feels threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at which the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help the situation. That may work when charging it with a dedicated lithium battery charger, without anything else connected to the battery while it's charging. But in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter than the battery, IMO. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Sun Jan 25 13:20:48 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 13:20:48 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is more of a programming / battery issue than an inverter inverter. In looking at the system settings, you are pushing the voltages of LFP to the max. This will cause the BMS to protect the battery. The "Spikes are caused by the BMS operation not the inverter (the current has to go someplace), the BMS FET's open under load the voltage will spike. The BMS should be the last resort in regards to battery charging protection. All LFP batteries (cells) are mostly the same, and are made by 5 companies. The upper and lower voltages are set for LFP cell makers. The battery (pack) builders then program the BMS, and post on specification sheets the recommended setting voltages. With *lower quality cells and lower warranties*, you will see the voltages are set *higher.* When using A+ cells and long warranties you will see* lower* top voltage settings. Here are the recommended voltages for a 48V LFP (16S) pack when using A+ cells from CATL, BYD, and EVE (this is from the cell manufacturers recommendations) *Charging range:* *~52 V to 56 V* - *Full resting:* *~54.6 V* - *Nominal operation:* *~51–53 V* - *Stop discharging (resting):* *~48 V* *Recommended MAX voltage is 56.8V (for normal use) 58.2 **Absolute MAX (chemistry limit) Cell damage* You need to update the MNP AIO system firmware to V7. It is now the only AIO that has true charging control for LA (that works) the changes made were recommended by a highly qualified LA battery rep who is also a part of this list. Set the absorb setting as you need, but be aware that it does not start the adsorb until the current drops below ~ 10 amps or so. On Sun, Jan 25, 2026 at 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of 57.6 > volts This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery. I am used to using > 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 cell LFP. I suspect that > the 57.6 is the protection voltage of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb > voltage setting. I have seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec > sheets, where they give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an > appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. > > Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb voltages when > doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER let the BMS do > anything. if the BMS shuts off charging, that means that I already > failed... the charge controller or inverter should have stopped charging > before the BMS feels the need to protect the cells. Same with low voltage > disconnect... if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- > I should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of > discharge to protect the cells. The BMS is like an airbag...only to react > in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't work properly. > > Open loop equipment (all of the traditional outback/magnum/schneider, etc > stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop setup) is designed to always have a > battery in the system to stabilize the DC bus voltage. Without the > stabilizing effect of the battery, voltage spikes can occur. I find that > many charge controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, > can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but charging > from inverters is more questionable, and especially charging from any DC > generators can cause severe spikes if the battery disconnects. I have fried > equipment when a lithium battery disconnected from a large kohler DC > generator and the generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from > spiking to 75 volts or more. This is why you never want the BMS to > disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never > feels threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at which > the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help the > situation. That may work when charging it with a dedicated lithium battery > charger, without anything else connected to the battery while it's > charging. But in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple > sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter > than the battery, IMO. > > Zeke > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sun Jan 25 14:54:24 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 12:54:24 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Its really hard to find charge settings for Midnite Powerflow, but Midnite tech support told me the #s are printed on the side of the battery.  Definitely not 57.6v, which sounds way too high. Charge : 56.16 vdc Float: 54 vdc On 1/25/2026 11:20 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches wrote: > This is more of a programming / battery issue than an inverter > inverter. In looking at the system settings, you are pushing the > voltages of LFP to the max. This will cause the BMS to protect the > battery. The "Spikes are caused by the BMS operation not the inverter > (the current has to go someplace), the BMS FET's open under load the > voltage will spike. The BMS should be the last resort in regards to > battery charging protection. > > All LFP batteries (cells) are mostly the same, and are made by 5 > companies. The upper and lower voltages are set for LFP cell makers. > The battery (pack) builders then program the BMS, and post on > specification sheets the recommended setting voltages. With _lower > quality cells and lower warranties_, you will see the voltages are set > _higher._ When using A+ cells and long warranties you will see_lower_ > top voltage settings. > > Here are the recommended voltages for a 48V LFP (16S) pack when using > A+ cells from CATL, BYD, and EVE  (this is from the cell manufacturers > recommendations) > * > * > *Charging range:**~52 V to 56 V* ># > > *Full resting:**~54.6 V* > ># > > *Nominal operation:**~51–53 V* > ># > > *Stop discharging (resting):**~48 V* > > *Recommended MAX voltage is 56.8V (for normal use) 58.2 **Absolute MAX > (chemistry limit) Cell damage* > > You need to update the MNP AIO system firmware to V7. It is now the > only AIO that has true charging control for LA (that works) the > changes made were recommended by a highly qualified LA battery rep who > is also a part of this list. Set the absorb setting as you need, but > be aware that it does not start the adsorb until the current drops > below ~ 10 amps or so. > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2026 at 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of > 57.6 volts   This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery.  I am > used to using 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 > cell LFP.  I suspect that the 57.6 is the protection voltage of > the BMS, not the appropriate absorb voltage setting.  I have seen > this error a lot on lithium battery spec sheets, where they give > the overvoltage protection level, which is not an appropriate > absorb setting for typical solar equipment. > > Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb > voltages when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER > let the BMS do anything.  if the BMS shuts off charging, that > means that I already failed... the charge controller or inverter > should have stopped charging before the BMS feels the need to > protect the cells.  Same with low voltage disconnect... if the BMS > shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- I should have > shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of > discharge to protect the cells.  The BMS is like an airbag...only > to react in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't > work properly. > > Open loop equipment (all of the traditional > outback/magnum/schneider, etc stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop > setup) is designed to always have a battery in the system to > stabilize the DC bus voltage.  Without the stabilizing effect of > the battery, voltage spikes can occur.  I find that many charge > controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, can > actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but > charging from inverters is more questionable, and especially > charging from any DC generators can cause severe spikes if the > battery disconnects. I have fried equipment when a lithium battery > disconnected from a large kohler DC generator and the generator > couldn't react fast enough to keep it from spiking to 75 volts or > more.  This is why you never want the BMS to disconnect... which > means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never feels > threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at > which the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help > the situation.  That may work when charging it with a dedicated > lithium battery charger, without anything else connected to the > battery while it's charging.  But in a functioning solar system > with charging from multiple sources and loads all occurring at the > same time, we need to be smarter than the battery, IMO. > > Zeke > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sun Jan 25 16:00:35 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 13:00:35 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0a5ea5f468b3037dbe860d30efa309b6@mail.gmail.com> Friends: This case is reminiscent of a not so recent experience I had trying to integrate Fortress E-vaults into a Sunny Island system. When the batteries approached 100% SOC there would be a spike in the battery voltage that caused a system shut-down. My theory is that lead acid batteries present a more constrained impedance to a charging source than do batteries with a BMS system. When approaching full charge the BMS will try to curtail charging by increasing the impedance as seen by the charging source. William Bryce’s description of the process seems to ratify that theory. The work-around seems to be to limit the top tier of charging, maybe any charge above 90% SOC. This will reduce the overall efficiency of the operation. Leaving 10% on the table every day is not a great option. Although there are plenty of anecdotes on this forum that lithium technology can work with legacy inverters (those designed for connection to lead-acid batteries) my policy is to avoid the uncertainty and specify systems that can work closed-loop. I have successfully paired a Soul-Ark with Deka duration and Fortress inverters with Fortress lithium batteries. My experience on the subject is limited-- I am not pretending to be an expert on this. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *William Bryce via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Sunday, January 25, 2026 10:21 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* William Bryce; Zeke Yewdall *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) This is more of a programming / battery issue than an inverter inverter. In looking at the system settings, you are pushing the voltages of LFP to the max. This will cause the BMS to protect the battery. The "Spikes are caused by the BMS operation not the inverter (the current has to go someplace), the BMS FET's open under load the voltage will spike. The BMS should be the last resort in regards to battery charging protection. All LFP batteries (cells) are mostly the same, and are made by 5 companies. The upper and lower voltages are set for LFP cell makers. The battery (pack) builders then program the BMS, and post on specification sheets the recommended setting voltages. With *lower quality cells and lower warranties*, you will see the voltages are set *higher.* When using A+ cells and long warranties you will see* lower* top voltage settings. Here are the recommended voltages for a 48V LFP (16S) pack when using A+ cells from CATL, BYD, and EVE (this is from the cell manufacturers recommendations) *Charging range:* *~52 V to 56 V* · *Full resting:* *~54.6 V* · *Nominal operation:* *~51–53 V* · *Stop discharging (resting):* *~48 V* *Recommended MAX voltage is 56.8V (for normal use) 58.2 Absolute MAX (chemistry limit) Cell damage* You need to update the MNP AIO system firmware to V7. It is now the only AIO that has true charging control for LA (that works) the changes made were recommended by a highly qualified LA battery rep who is also a part of this list. Set the absorb setting as you need, but be aware that it does not start the adsorb until the current drops below ~ 10 amps or so. On Sun, Jan 25, 2026 at 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of 57.6 volts This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery. I am used to using 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 cell LFP. I suspect that the 57.6 is the protection voltage of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb voltage setting. I have seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec sheets, where they give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb voltages when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER let the BMS do anything. if the BMS shuts off charging, that means that I already failed... the charge controller or inverter should have stopped charging before the BMS feels the need to protect the cells. Same with low voltage disconnect... if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- I should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of discharge to protect the cells. The BMS is like an airbag...only to react in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't work properly. Open loop equipment (all of the traditional outback/magnum/schneider, etc stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop setup) is designed to always have a battery in the system to stabilize the DC bus voltage. Without the stabilizing effect of the battery, voltage spikes can occur. I find that many charge controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but charging from inverters is more questionable, and especially charging from any DC generators can cause severe spikes if the battery disconnects. I have fried equipment when a lithium battery disconnected from a large kohler DC generator and the generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from spiking to 75 volts or more. This is why you never want the BMS to disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never feels threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at which the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help the situation. That may work when charging it with a dedicated lithium battery charger, without anything else connected to the battery while it's charging. But in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter than the battery, IMO. Zeke _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sun Jan 25 16:08:28 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 13:08:28 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. In-Reply-To: References: <5e45555d26469d1c033400d609559127@mail.gmail.com> <50bf396a-4f5b-42bc-9f61-35a89d651dfc@coveoregon.com> <127dc5a7b9a1623f12eadc2931db1dc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kirk: It is fortuitous you would write on the subject when you did. I was connecting an Envy inverter at that moment. We have settled on the copper sheeting method: We cut a strip of thin copper sheeting to wrap about 1-1/2 times around the bare strands, insert the conductor in the screw lug and tighten to the specified torque. I have done this multiple times over decades without failure. We sometimes take the cable back out of the lug to inspect. All indications are this technique is acceptable. This solution is inexpensive and portable. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* Kirk Herander [mailto:kirkh at vermont.solar] *Sent:* Friday, January 23, 2026 9:44 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. William, All, I was at a workshop on the (sort of) new Fortress battery product the other day. I brought up this very issue of the terminal lugs of the Envy not accepting a 4/0 ferrule, even though 4/0 cable with ferrules are recommended in the manual. The instructor had no comment, except to imply that maybe one should use 3/0 max. Huh? Anyway these Greaves pin adapters are by far the best I've found for working with the 4/0 terminal block. The pin diameter matches 4/0 cable and thus fits great. Preferable IMO to a reduced 4/0 barrel to 2/0 pin of AL or AL-clad others. And the barrel has a generous flange which makes it quite easy to insert high-strand flex cable. #PT 222FX40. But @ $50 ea, not cheap. [image: image.png] On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 7:10 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Friends: My understanding is if the lug has a set-screw that contacts the strands, fine strands can wind around the set screw, get into the threads and not tighten adequately. If you are crimping fine strands inside of some type of barrel your connection should be OK. I had been using Outback until they imploded and all of the battery connections were via studs or bolts that required crimped-on rings. Now I am back to set screw lugs and fine stranding became an issue again. I did try another experiment: I took a 4/0 ferrule that would not fit into the Envy lugs and snipped a section out of it. I curled it into a slightly smaller diameter and it fit into the lug. I suppose one could cut the ferrule in half longitudinally and insert a portion of the ferrule between the set screw and the strands. I am pleased with the copper sheeting wrapped around the fine strands. That will be my SOP. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Wednesday, September 3, 2025 1:40 PM *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org *Cc:* Ray Walters *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. I've got to ask: Are none of the lugs on these Chinese inverters approved for fine strand cable? I just have not had a problem with that, but I've mostly used Magnum, Midnite, and Outback equipment over the years. What were the lugs on the old Trace DC 250 boxes? Were they fine strand rated? They sure were tough to get 4/0 into, as William mentioned. Ray Remote Solar On 9/3/2025 12:57 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote: William, If the only reason the ferrule wouldn't fit after using the hex crimper was the ridge left where the dies meet, you could rotate the cable 120 degrees and crimp the ferrule again. I doubt that the indenter crimper will do a decent job with large ferrules. I do like your thin piece of copper solution. Not UL approved but I dare say wrench approved. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 9/2/2025 8:55 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: Friends: Thank you for all of your input on this question. I feel it only right I report back how this turned out I tried a crimper like this: It left a jagged ridge on both sides of the ferrule where the dies met. The crimper below was suggested but I have not tried it: This was suggested but I have not tried it either: _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 85346 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Jan 25 16:48:04 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 16:48:04 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The specs for this particular battery list a charging voltage up to 58.4V. I believe the BMS protection level is set at 60V, but I need to confirm with the manufacturer when they open on Monday. I just noticed that the AIOs responded to a relatively high load and entered a re-bulk type of behavior. But the voltage stayed withing an acceptable range. I'm not clear on how the AIO handles re-bulk and also why the float voltage setpoint isn't being respected (or how absorb time is determined). Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sun, Jan 25, 2026, 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of 57.6 > volts This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery. I am used to using > 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 cell LFP. I suspect that > the 57.6 is the protection voltage of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb > voltage setting. I have seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec > sheets, where they give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an > appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. > > Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb voltages when > doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER let the BMS do > anything. if the BMS shuts off charging, that means that I already > failed... the charge controller or inverter should have stopped charging > before the BMS feels the need to protect the cells. Same with low voltage > disconnect... if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- > I should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of > discharge to protect the cells. The BMS is like an airbag...only to react > in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't work properly. > > Open loop equipment (all of the traditional outback/magnum/schneider, etc > stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop setup) is designed to always have a > battery in the system to stabilize the DC bus voltage. Without the > stabilizing effect of the battery, voltage spikes can occur. I find that > many charge controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, > can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but charging > from inverters is more questionable, and especially charging from any DC > generators can cause severe spikes if the battery disconnects. I have fried > equipment when a lithium battery disconnected from a large kohler DC > generator and the generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from > spiking to 75 volts or more. This is why you never want the BMS to > disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never > feels threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at which > the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help the > situation. That may work when charging it with a dedicated lithium battery > charger, without anything else connected to the battery while it's > charging. But in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple > sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter > than the battery, IMO. > > Zeke > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 51V110A-8D-MODULE-REV2 (1).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 247811 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20260125_155512_Chrome.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 590151 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20260125_155550_Chrome.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 657542 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20260125_155623_Chrome.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 553292 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20260125_155722_Chrome.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 845588 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 16:55:30 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 14:55:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Sun Jan 25 17:53:15 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 17:53:15 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He is using a Lithtronics battery in an open loop. They have a 5 year warranty so I do not think it has a top grade cell in that battery, that is probably the reason for the very high charging voltage specified by the battery company (not the cell mfg). If the battery only has a 5 year warranty you get what you get. LFP is extremely mature technology and they know how long cells will last under normal operating conditions. That warranty will tell you the installer, what you are working with in regards to the cells inside of the pack. MNP has the charging range for the batteries right on the side of the battery, it is a wide range and will work with most settings. The operating range for the PF16 is 46.4 to 57.6 Volts. If you reach out to the MNP support they can give you the LA / OL battery charging logic. It works and I have tested it. The LA / OL support was fully released in V7 firmware. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun Jan 25 19:05:23 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 17:05:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ED8D8A0-E7CD-44D3-A845-DEB632CBFF63@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sun Jan 25 19:38:42 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2026 16:38:42 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. In-Reply-To: <9ED8D8A0-E7CD-44D3-A845-DEB632CBFF63@gmail.com> References: <9ED8D8A0-E7CD-44D3-A845-DEB632CBFF63@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay: It is 34 gauge, as close as I can measure. I bought it decades ago at a local hobby shop that is long gone. A quick search shows me its available on Etsy and likely many other places. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] *Sent:* Sunday, January 25, 2026 4:05 PM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. Hi william Can you tell us what thickness this is and is it something you’ve ordered on line or where to get it Thx Jay On Jan 25, 2026, at 2:34 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:  Kirk: It is fortuitous you would write on the subject when you did. I was connecting an Envy inverter at that moment. We have settled on the copper sheeting method: We cut a strip of thin copper sheeting to wrap about 1-1/2 times around the bare strands, insert the conductor in the screw lug and tighten to the specified torque. I have done this multiple times over decades without failure. We sometimes take the cable back out of the lug to inspect. All indications are this technique is acceptable. This solution is inexpensive and portable. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* Kirk Herander [mailto:kirkh at vermont.solar] *Sent:* Friday, January 23, 2026 9:44 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. William, All, I was at a workshop on the (sort of) new Fortress battery product the other day. I brought up this very issue of the terminal lugs of the Envy not accepting a 4/0 ferrule, even though 4/0 cable with ferrules are recommended in the manual. The instructor had no comment, except to imply that maybe one should use 3/0 max. Huh? Anyway these Greaves pin adapters are by far the best I've found for working with the 4/0 terminal block. The pin diameter matches 4/0 cable and thus fits great. Preferable IMO to a reduced 4/0 barrel to 2/0 pin of AL or AL-clad others. And the barrel has a generous flange which makes it quite easy to insert high-strand flex cable. #PT 222FX40. But @ $50 ea, not cheap. On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 7:10 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Friends: My understanding is if the lug has a set-screw that contacts the strands, fine strands can wind around the set screw, get into the threads and not tighten adequately. If you are crimping fine strands inside of some type of barrel your connection should be OK. I had been using Outback until they imploded and all of the battery connections were via studs or bolts that required crimped-on rings. Now I am back to set screw lugs and fine stranding became an issue again. I did try another experiment: I took a 4/0 ferrule that would not fit into the Envy lugs and snipped a section out of it. I curled it into a slightly smaller diameter and it fit into the lug. I suppose one could cut the ferrule in half longitudinally and insert a portion of the ferrule between the set screw and the strands. I am pleased with the copper sheeting wrapped around the fine strands. That will be my SOP. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Wednesday, September 3, 2025 1:40 PM *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org *Cc:* Ray Walters *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire. I've got to ask: Are none of the lugs on these Chinese inverters approved for fine strand cable? I just have not had a problem with that, but I've mostly used Magnum, Midnite, and Outback equipment over the years. What were the lugs on the old Trace DC 250 boxes? Were they fine strand rated? They sure were tough to get 4/0 into, as William mentioned. Ray Remote Solar On 9/3/2025 12:57 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote: William, If the only reason the ferrule wouldn't fit after using the hex crimper was the ridge left where the dies meet, you could rotate the cable 120 degrees and crimp the ferrule again. I doubt that the indenter crimper will do a decent job with large ferrules. I do like your thin piece of copper solution. Not UL approved but I dare say wrench approved. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 9/2/2025 8:55 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: Friends: Thank you for all of your input on this question. I feel it only right I report back how this turned out I tried a crimper like this: It left a jagged ridge on both sides of the ferrule where the dies met. The crimper below was suggested but I have not tried it: This was suggested but I have not tried it either: _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Mon Jan 26 11:51:45 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 10:51:45 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97112DD1-2B68-47A1-8231-625874083F37@mavericksolar.com> I have never believed any LFP battery maker that has 58.4V for charge voltage. That’s 3.65 Volts per cell in a 16S configuration. If you have any cell imbalance inside the pack, one cell could go above the upper limit of 3.65Vpc. I have installed serval brands of LFP batteries, some great brands and some not as great. In pretty much all cases, I used 3.45Vpc (55.2V) as the Absorb and then set other voltages as appropriate based on that. In several cases, I also enabled EQ and set it to 3.5Vpc (56) just to make sure that cell balancing has a chance. If the voltage is too low, you will see a wider battery to battery SOC spread. I have corrected that by increasing the Absorb time and/or bump up the ABS Voltage. Many battery companies have been integration guides for their battery to Outback or Scheider. I have digested this to see what the ranges are for open charging. It would be good to get more details about: Cell balancing activation voltage Method for reading the cell voltages internal to batteries (a few companies have simple cables and easy apps for such, Pytes and Fortress) Method for reading individual battery SOC (Pytes has a serial cable and an app; Fortress has Guardian comm box, and there are others) It would be good for long term health and understanding for wrenches to have more information… Here is my current working document on charging open loop. Let me know what you would do differently. Any suggestions are appreciated. I will send the XLS version to anyone who wants it.  Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 25, 2026, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > The specs for this particular battery list a charging voltage up to 58.4V. I believe the BMS protection level is set at 60V, but I need to confirm with the manufacturer when they open on Monday. > > I just noticed that the AIOs responded to a relatively high load and entered a re-bulk type of behavior. But the voltage stayed withing an acceptable range. I'm not clear on how the AIO handles re-bulk and also why the float voltage setpoint isn't being respected (or how absorb time is determined). > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2026, 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of 57.6 volts This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery. I am used to using 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 cell LFP. I suspect that the 57.6 is the protection voltage of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb voltage setting. I have seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec sheets, where they give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. >> >> Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb voltages when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER let the BMS do anything. if the BMS shuts off charging, that means that I already failed... the charge controller or inverter should have stopped charging before the BMS feels the need to protect the cells. Same with low voltage disconnect... if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- I should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of discharge to protect the cells. The BMS is like an airbag...only to react in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't work properly. >> >> Open loop equipment (all of the traditional outback/magnum/schneider, etc stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop setup) is designed to always have a battery in the system to stabilize the DC bus voltage. Without the stabilizing effect of the battery, voltage spikes can occur. I find that many charge controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but charging from inverters is more questionable, and especially charging from any DC generators can cause severe spikes if the battery disconnects. I have fried equipment when a lithium battery disconnected from a large kohler DC generator and the generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from spiking to 75 volts or more. This is why you never want the BMS to disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never feels threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at which the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help the situation. That may work when charging it with a dedicated lithium battery charger, without anything else connected to the battery while it's charging. But in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter than the battery, IMO. >> >> Zeke >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > <51V110A-8D-MODULE-REV2 (1).pdf>_______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Battery SOC State of Charge Map 2026-01-26.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 199329 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Mon Jan 26 12:19:56 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 12:19:56 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: <97112DD1-2B68-47A1-8231-625874083F37@mavericksolar.com> References: <97112DD1-2B68-47A1-8231-625874083F37@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: Maverick That is a really good chart! Thanks for providing that. On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 11:53 AM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have never believed any LFP battery maker that has 58.4V for charge > voltage. That’s 3.65 Volts per cell in a 16S configuration. If you have any > cell imbalance inside the pack, one cell could go above the upper limit of > 3.65Vpc. > > I have installed serval brands of LFP batteries, some great brands and > some not as great. > > In pretty much all cases, I used 3.45Vpc (55.2V) as the Absorb and then > set other voltages as appropriate based on that. In several cases, I also > enabled EQ and set it to 3.5Vpc (56) just to make sure that cell balancing > has a chance. If the voltage is too low, you will see a wider battery to > battery SOC spread. I have corrected that by increasing the Absorb time > and/or bump up the ABS Voltage. > > Many battery companies have been integration guides for their battery to > Outback or Scheider. I have digested this to see what the ranges are for > open charging. It would be good to get more details about: > Cell balancing activation voltage > Method for reading the cell voltages internal to batteries (a few > companies have simple cables and easy apps for such, Pytes and Fortress) > Method for reading individual battery SOC (Pytes has a serial cable and > an app; Fortress has Guardian comm box, and there are others) > > It would be good for long term health and understanding for wrenches to > have more information… > > Here is my current working document on charging open loop. Let me know > what you would do differently. Any suggestions are appreciated. I will send > the XLS version to anyone who wants it. > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > On Jan 25, 2026, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > The specs for this particular battery list a charging voltage up to 58.4V. > I believe the BMS protection level is set at 60V, but I need to confirm > with the manufacturer when they open on Monday. > > I just noticed that the AIOs responded to a relatively high load and > entered a re-bulk type of behavior. But the voltage stayed withing an > acceptable range. I'm not clear on how the AIO handles re-bulk and also why > the float voltage setpoint isn't being respected (or how absorb time is > determined). > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2026, 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of 57.6 >> volts This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery. I am used to using >> 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 cell LFP. I suspect that >> the 57.6 is the protection voltage of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb >> voltage setting. I have seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec >> sheets, where they give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an >> appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. >> >> Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb voltages >> when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER let the BMS do >> anything. if the BMS shuts off charging, that means that I already >> failed... the charge controller or inverter should have stopped charging >> before the BMS feels the need to protect the cells. Same with low voltage >> disconnect... if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- >> I should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of >> discharge to protect the cells. The BMS is like an airbag...only to react >> in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't work properly. >> >> Open loop equipment (all of the traditional outback/magnum/schneider, etc >> stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop setup) is designed to always have a >> battery in the system to stabilize the DC bus voltage. Without the >> stabilizing effect of the battery, voltage spikes can occur. I find that >> many charge controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, >> can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but charging >> from inverters is more questionable, and especially charging from any DC >> generators can cause severe spikes if the battery disconnects. I have fried >> equipment when a lithium battery disconnected from a large kohler DC >> generator and the generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from >> spiking to 75 volts or more. This is why you never want the BMS to >> disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never >> feels threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at which >> the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help the >> situation. That may work when charging it with a dedicated lithium battery >> charger, without anything else connected to the battery while it's >> charging. But in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple >> sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter >> than the battery, IMO. >> >> Zeke >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> <51V110A-8D-MODULE-REV2 (1).pdf> > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon Jan 26 13:01:44 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 11:01:44 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: <97112DD1-2B68-47A1-8231-625874083F37@mavericksolar.com> References: <97112DD1-2B68-47A1-8231-625874083F37@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: <79b645e0-96dd-420e-932e-1604aab7ccc8@solarray.com> We're not the only ones wondering about best settings for LFPs. I've noticed over the years both Simpliphi and Fortress have changed their recommended charge settings substantially.  Fortress seems to have gone to a higher voltage and very low absorb time. Considering they're roughly the same cells inside on all of these, I find the variations in settings interesting. Beware, some batteries like the Simpliphi will literally let the smoke out if they go over 60 v.  I was excited about the 15 cell (48 v nominal) HomeGrid batteries, since they would be closer to lead acid voltages. However, we ended up having quite a bit of firmware troubles, and the "outdoor" enclosure and heating left a lot to be desired.  Like William, I don't consider myself quite an expert on LFP, but I've done systems with Blue Planet, LiFe Blue, Simpliphi, Fortress, Homegrid, and Midnite. Even though I had a hard time finding charge settings, the Midnite Powerflo 16 has been my favorite so far.  I just did a system with a Rosie and a pair of Powerflo s.  Every possible load on in the house, then kicked the well pump, and it didn't even blink the LED lights. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 1/26/2026 9:51 AM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote: > I have never believed any LFP battery maker that has 58.4V for charge > voltage. That’s 3.65 Volts per cell in a 16S configuration. If you > have any cell imbalance inside the pack, one cell could go above the > upper limit of 3.65Vpc. > > I have installed serval brands of LFP batteries, some great brands and > some not as great. > > In pretty much all cases, I used 3.45Vpc (55.2V) as the Absorb and > then set other voltages as appropriate based on that. In several > cases, I also enabled EQ and set it to 3.5Vpc (56) just to make sure > that cell balancing has a chance. If the voltage is too low, you will > see a wider battery to battery SOC spread. I have corrected that by > increasing the Absorb time and/or bump up the ABS Voltage. > > Many battery companies have been integration guides for their battery > to Outback or Scheider. I have digested this to see what the ranges > are for open charging. It would be good to get more details about: >  Cell balancing activation voltage >  Method for reading the cell voltages internal to batteries (a few > companies have simple cables and easy apps for such, Pytes and Fortress) >  Method for reading individual battery SOC (Pytes has a serial cable > and an app; Fortress has Guardian comm box, and there are others) > > It would be good for long term health and understanding for wrenches > to have more information… > > Here is my current working document on charging open loop. Let me know > what you would do differently. Any suggestions are appreciated. I will > send the XLS version to anyone who wants it. > > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > >> On Jan 25, 2026, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> The specs for this particular battery list a charging voltage up to >> 58.4V. I believe the BMS protection level is set at 60V, but I need >> to confirm with the manufacturer when they open on Monday. >> >> I just noticed that the AIOs responded to a relatively high load and >> entered a re-bulk type of behavior. But the voltage stayed withing an >> acceptable range. I'm not clear on how the AIO handles re-bulk and >> also why the float voltage setpoint isn't being respected (or how >> absorb time is determined). >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> On Sun, Jan 25, 2026, 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of >> 57.6 volts   This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery.  I >> am used to using 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 >> cell LFP.  I suspect that the 57.6 is the protection voltage of >> the BMS, not the appropriate absorb voltage setting.  I have seen >> this error a lot on lithium battery spec sheets, where they give >> the overvoltage protection level, which is not an appropriate >> absorb setting for typical solar equipment. >> >> Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb >> voltages when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER >> let the BMS do anything.  if the BMS shuts off charging, that >> means that I already failed... the charge controller or inverter >> should have stopped charging before the BMS feels the need to >> protect the cells.  Same with low voltage disconnect... if the >> BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- I should >> have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of >> discharge to protect the cells.  The BMS is like an airbag...only >> to react in cases of emergency when the rest of the system >> doesn't work properly. >> >> Open loop equipment (all of the traditional >> outback/magnum/schneider, etc stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop >> setup) is designed to always have a battery in the system to >> stabilize the DC bus voltage.  Without the stabilizing effect of >> the battery, voltage spikes can occur.  I find that many charge >> controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, can >> actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but >> charging from inverters is more questionable, and especially >> charging from any DC generators can cause severe spikes if the >> battery disconnects. I have fried equipment when a lithium >> battery disconnected from a large kohler DC generator and the >> generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from spiking to >> 75 volts or more.  This is why you never want the BMS to >> disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS >> never feels threatened.  Lithium battery manufactures giving the >> voltage at which the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage >> does not help the situation.  That may work when charging it with >> a dedicated lithium battery charger, without anything else >> connected to the battery while it's charging.  But in a >> functioning solar system with charging from multiple sources and >> loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter than >> the battery, IMO. >> >> Zeke >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> <51V110A-8D-MODULE-REV2 >> (1).pdf>_______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon Jan 26 13:32:30 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 11:32:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9fd63109-83d9-4c56-ae78-897459c9cbf2@solarray.com> No, and the settings on the side of the battery did not include recommended absorption time.  I like the "cheat sheets" provided by Fortress and Simpliphi for use with their batteries with various brands of controllers and inverters.  However, I've since started adjusting those substantially for off grid.  I found for Fortress for instance, that the generator needed to be started at a higher voltage than recommended, and I set the charge voltage on the inverters lower, because the generator was running all day trying to fully charge the batteries. Offgrid, the goal is to get the generator going before any possible shutdowns, run the genny to get the batteries up to maybe 60% or 70%, and then let solar take over again. While open loop coms prevents some of the weird glitch shutdowns that might happen with closed loop charging,  using voltage controls with LFP batteries is tricky, since the voltage is so stable until the bottom 20% SOC of the battery.  Below 20% SOC, the voltage seems to drop like a stone, and triggering gen start and LVD is really dependent on the loads.  I'm still experiencing catastrophic battery shutdowns, that require a trip out for manual reset, and/or dark start.  I might get usable settings for one combination (Victron: HomeGrid, ie.) but then I need something different for Outback: Fortress combination......I don't mind figuring this out (actually becoming an expert) but the drive times are killing my bottom line (and my bottom). Ray Walters Remote Solar On 1/25/2026 2:55 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Did they offer up any reason why there are no charging or other > programming specs online? > > Curious. > > > > > > > >> On Jan 25, 2026, at 12:56 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> Its really hard to find charge settings for Midnite Powerflow, but >> Midnite tech support told me the #s are printed on the side of the >> battery.  Definitely not 57.6v, which sounds way too high. >> >> Charge : 56.16 vdc >> Float: 54 vdc >> >> On 1/25/2026 11:20 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> This is more of a programming / battery issue than an inverter >>> inverter. In looking at the system settings, you are pushing the >>> voltages of LFP to the max. This will cause the BMS to protect the >>> battery. The "Spikes are caused by the BMS operation not the >>> inverter (the current has to go someplace), the BMS FET's open under >>> load the voltage will spike. The BMS should be the last resort in >>> regards to battery charging protection. >>> >>> All LFP batteries (cells) are mostly the same, and are made by 5 >>> companies. The upper and lower voltages are set for LFP cell makers. >>> The battery (pack) builders then program the BMS, and post on >>> specification sheets the recommended setting voltages. With _lower >>> quality cells and lower warranties_, you will see the voltages are >>> set _higher._ When using A+ cells and long warranties you will >>> see_lower_ top voltage settings. >>> >>> Here are the recommended voltages for a 48V LFP (16S) pack when >>> using A+ cells from CATL, BYD, and EVE  (this is from the cell >>> manufacturers recommendations) >>> * >>> * >>> *Charging range:**~52 V to 56 V* >>># >>> >>> *Full resting:**~54.6 V* >>> >>># >>> >>> *Nominal operation:**~51–53 V* >>> >>># >>> >>> *Stop discharging (resting):**~48 V* >>> >>> *Recommended MAX voltage is 56.8V (for normal use) 58.2 **Absolute >>> MAX (chemistry limit) Cell damage* >>> >>> You need to update the MNP AIO system firmware to V7. It is now the >>> only AIO that has true charging control for LA (that works) the >>> changes made were recommended by a highly qualified LA battery rep >>> who is also a part of this list.   Set the absorb setting as you >>> need, but be aware that it does not start the adsorb until the >>> current drops below ~ 10 amps or so. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2026 at 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches >>> wrote: >>> >>> I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of >>> 57.6 volts   This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery.  I >>> am used to using 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a >>> 16 cell LFP.  I suspect that the 57.6 is the protection voltage >>> of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb voltage setting.  I have >>> seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec sheets, where they >>> give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an >>> appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. >>> >>> Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb >>> voltages when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to >>> NEVER let the BMS do anything.  if the BMS shuts off charging, >>> that means that I already failed... the charge controller or >>> inverter should have stopped charging before the BMS feels the >>> need to protect the cells.  Same with low voltage disconnect... >>> if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- I >>> should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to >>> turn of discharge to protect the cells.  The BMS is like an >>> airbag...only to react in cases of emergency when the rest of >>> the system doesn't work properly. >>> >>> Open loop equipment (all of the traditional >>> outback/magnum/schneider, etc stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop >>> setup) is designed to always have a battery in the system to >>> stabilize the DC bus voltage.  Without the stabilizing effect of >>> the battery, voltage spikes can occur.  I find that many charge >>> controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, >>> can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, >>> but charging from inverters is more questionable, and especially >>> charging from any DC generators can cause severe spikes if the >>> battery disconnects. I have fried equipment when a lithium >>> battery disconnected from a large kohler DC generator and the >>> generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from spiking to >>> 75 volts or more.  This is why you never want the BMS to >>> disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the >>> BMS never feels threatened.  Lithium battery manufactures giving >>> the voltage at which the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" >>> voltage does not help the situation.  That may work when >>> charging it with a dedicated lithium battery charger, without >>> anything else connected to the battery while it's charging.  But >>> in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple >>> sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be >>> smarter than the battery, IMO. >>> >>> Zeke >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>> work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 14:03:51 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 12:03:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: <79b645e0-96dd-420e-932e-1604aab7ccc8@solarray.com> References: <79b645e0-96dd-420e-932e-1604aab7ccc8@solarray.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Mon Jan 26 14:26:53 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 14:26:53 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Strange battery overvoltage issue (Midnite AIO / Lithionics Battery) In-Reply-To: <9fd63109-83d9-4c56-ae78-897459c9cbf2@solarray.com> References: <9fd63109-83d9-4c56-ae78-897459c9cbf2@solarray.com> Message-ID: Ray is 100% correct in regards to the fine LFP open loop setting. The MNP series of batteries have the recommended voltages for charging on the specification sheet and the batteries. But Absorb and float setting vastly change with the system design, it depends on the size of the arrays and the generators. I'm sure MNP can do a better job at posting some "default" open loop settings but they will not be correct for all systems. I have found that when using Fortress and Discover LFP batteries the float and bulk / absorb settings were never correct and in the end each system needed its own settings. On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 1:35 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > No, and the settings on the side of the battery did not include > recommended absorption time. I like the "cheat sheets" provided by > Fortress and Simpliphi for use with their batteries with various brands of > controllers and inverters. However, I've since started adjusting those > substantially for off grid. I found for Fortress for instance, that the > generator needed to be started at a higher voltage than recommended, and I > set the charge voltage on the inverters lower, because the generator was > running all day trying to fully charge the batteries. Offgrid, the goal is > to get the generator going before any possible shutdowns, run the genny to > get the batteries up to maybe 60% or 70%, and then let solar take over > again. > > While open loop coms prevents some of the weird glitch shutdowns that > might happen with closed loop charging, using voltage controls with LFP > batteries is tricky, since the voltage is so stable until the bottom 20% > SOC of the battery. Below 20% SOC, the voltage seems to drop like a stone, > and triggering gen start and LVD is really dependent on the loads. I'm > still experiencing catastrophic battery shutdowns, that require a trip out > for manual reset, and/or dark start. I might get usable settings for one > combination (Victron: HomeGrid, ie.) but then I need something different > for Outback: Fortress combination......I don't mind figuring this out > (actually becoming an expert) but the drive times are killing my bottom > line (and my bottom). > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > On 1/25/2026 2:55 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Did they offer up any reason why there are no charging or other > programming specs online? > > Curious. > > > > > > > > On Jan 25, 2026, at 12:56 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > > wrote: > >  > > Its really hard to find charge settings for Midnite Powerflow, but Midnite > tech support told me the #s are printed on the side of the battery. > Definitely not 57.6v, which sounds way too high. > > Charge : 56.16 vdc > Float: 54 vdc > On 1/25/2026 11:20 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches wrote: > > This is more of a programming / battery issue than an inverter inverter. > In looking at the system settings, you are pushing the voltages of LFP to > the max. This will cause the BMS to protect the battery. The "Spikes are > caused by the BMS operation not the inverter (the current has to go > someplace), the BMS FET's open under load the voltage will spike. The BMS > should be the last resort in regards to battery charging protection. > > All LFP batteries (cells) are mostly the same, and are made by 5 > companies. The upper and lower voltages are set for LFP cell makers. The > battery (pack) builders then program the BMS, and post on specification > sheets the recommended setting voltages. With *lower quality cells and > lower warranties*, you will see the voltages are set *higher.* When using > A+ cells and long warranties you will see* lower* top voltage settings. > > Here are the recommended voltages for a 48V LFP (16S) pack when using A+ > cells from CATL, BYD, and EVE (this is from the cell manufacturers > recommendations) > > *Charging range:* *~52 V to 56 V* > > - > > *Full resting:* *~54.6 V* > - > > *Nominal operation:* *~51–53 V* > - > > *Stop discharging (resting):* *~48 V* > > *Recommended MAX voltage is 56.8V (for normal use) 58.2 **Absolute MAX > (chemistry limit) Cell damage* > > You need to update the MNP AIO system firmware to V7. It is now the only > AIO that has true charging control for LA (that works) the changes made > were recommended by a highly qualified LA battery rep who is also a part of > this list. Set the absorb setting as you need, but be aware that it does > not start the adsorb until the current drops below ~ 10 amps or so. > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2026 at 12:48 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I see on the Lithionics spec sheet it says a charged voltage of 57.6 >> volts This seems very high for a 16 cell LFP battery. I am used to using >> 55 to 56 volts, maybe 56.5 volts at most on a 16 cell LFP. I suspect that >> the 57.6 is the protection voltage of the BMS, not the appropriate absorb >> voltage setting. I have seen this error a lot on lithium battery spec >> sheets, where they give the overvoltage protection level, which is not an >> appropriate absorb setting for typical solar equipment. >> >> Not everyone will agree with me, but the way I set up absorb voltages >> when doing open loop lithium battery systems is to NEVER let the BMS do >> anything. if the BMS shuts off charging, that means that I already >> failed... the charge controller or inverter should have stopped charging >> before the BMS feels the need to protect the cells. Same with low voltage >> disconnect... if the BMS shuts off due to low voltage, I already failed -- >> I should have shut the load off before the BMS felt the need to turn of >> discharge to protect the cells. The BMS is like an airbag...only to react >> in cases of emergency when the rest of the system doesn't work properly. >> >> Open loop equipment (all of the traditional outback/magnum/schneider, etc >> stuff, plus any AIO's in open loop setup) is designed to always have a >> battery in the system to stabilize the DC bus voltage. Without the >> stabilizing effect of the battery, voltage spikes can occur. I find that >> many charge controllers, especially the midnite classic and victron ones, >> can actually keep the system fairly stable without batteries, but charging >> from inverters is more questionable, and especially charging from any DC >> generators can cause severe spikes if the battery disconnects. I have fried >> equipment when a lithium battery disconnected from a large kohler DC >> generator and the generator couldn't react fast enough to keep it from >> spiking to 75 volts or more. This is why you never want the BMS to >> disconnect... which means setting absorb at a level where the BMS never >> feels threatened. Lithium battery manufactures giving the voltage at which >> the BMS disconnects as the "charge to" voltage does not help the >> situation. That may work when charging it with a dedicated lithium battery >> charger, without anything else connected to the battery while it's >> charging. But in a functioning solar system with charging from multiple >> sources and loads all occurring at the same time, we need to be smarter >> than the battery, IMO. >> >> Zeke >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Jan 26 16:00:20 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 13:00:20 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics Data sunset Message-ID: <11b98eeb0bc519116ce236146ba9719f@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I sat down today to download historic data from all of my OpticsRE connected clients. This is pursuant to the notification from Outback that, as of 2/1/26, the data beyond 6 months will be purged. I have 17 systems connected and many of them for more than 5 years old. I rely on that data for occasional troubleshooting and analysis. In the process I noticed a few odd things: 1. All of the data over 3 years old has already been purged. The earliest record is 1/26/2023. 2. You can only request a report for a duration of 1 year, so with this many legacy systems I needed to request a lot of reports, (42, given the already purged data). This is time consuming and frustrating. Storage is not expensive and these files are not that large so the policy change seems to me to be overly parsimonious on the part of Outback. 3. I have found the graphic interface on Optics to be very handy. I can look at a month view and see the daily production and consumption values. Granted I have to type them into a spreadsheet. With the 15 minute increments if I want to analyze the average daily solar production for last January, for example, I am going to have to do some fancy spreadsheet maneuvers to aggregate these 15 minute intervals. 4. The reports arrive via e-mail. So far I have requested 11 reports but after I received just 4 of them they stopped arriving in my email. It has been over an hour since I received the last report. 5. I am noticing a lot of gaps on the graphs. 6. I am noticing the colors on the voltage line graphs is not consistent from site to site. Many of them are no longer yellow, green and red but all yellow (orange-ish yellow). It seems to correlate with the setting you have in Devices for battery type. The deadline to archive this data is fast approaching and I worry I just won’t be able to access it. Have any of you been through this process yet, and if so, what are your experiences? Thanks in advance, William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Jan 26 16:07:21 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 13:07:21 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I had the same problem: Enphase arrays on an outbuilding which was connected to the generator side of a transfer switch. I had no independent power path from the grid to the outbuilding so the Enphase had to be connected to the load side of the transfer switch. When the large generator was powering the facility and the sun was out the generator acted wonky (unstable voltage). My solution was to buy a transceiver set (National Control Devices MlrXR2x). I powered one radio from the grid side of the transfer switch and the other radio controlled a contactor on the remote Enphase feeders. When the grid goes down the contactor opens. The radios were inside of two buildings and the reception was borderline. I augmented the included 900 mHz rubber duckies by replacing them with panel antennas from Pasternak. So far the system is operating as intended. If anyone wants details let me know. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 12:45 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the generator/ATS. Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of the ATS. *Howard "Scot" Arey* *Owner, Solar CenTex* 254-300-1228 ------------------------------ *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced energy, it can destroy the generator controller. That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, but I would not take the risk. I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop could be fast enough. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Good day, I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a whole-house generator. We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? *Howard "Scot" Arey* *Owner, Solar CenTex* NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [image: cid:image002.png at 01DC8AD7.93B49780] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 9422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Jan 26 16:40:04 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (Howard Scot Arey) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 15:40:04 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> References: , <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 9422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brett at oregonsunwrangler.com Mon Jan 26 22:41:44 2026 From: brett at oregonsunwrangler.com (Brett Stigile) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2026 20:41:44 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS Message-ID: <1b146cc47fa52601a606b52387ef7e3f@oregonsunwrangler.com> I was hoping to do an up coming job with MidNite Solar (MNSSR-600SS) string level shut down. However, I just learned that the product has been discontinued. I'm moving forward with AP smart because I don't have time to mess with it. However, I have several questions. Will a similar new product take its place? If a string level shut down device is available again will that satisfy 690.12 code requirements for roof mounted residential under NEC 2023 or NEC 2026 on it's own? Or does UL3741 come into play? For example, would a MidNite AIO with Unirac NXT racking (which is UL3741) with string level shut down and of course wiring everything nice and neat with appropriate listed wire management comply with NEC under 2023 or 2026 code? I'm just trying to figure out if string level shut down is a viable option with new code cycles or if it is a waste of time. thank you -- Brett Stigile Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician 503-317-7950 brett at oregonsunwrangler.com Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC CCB: 240661 License: 66LRT NABCEP PV Installation Professional certification: PV 100414-008123 From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jan 27 12:14:12 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 12:14:12 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't like to install anything that isn't failsafe for this purpose, so if it relies on a NC relay opening upon receiving generator voltage, I usually won't consider it because the relay can fail. And if the relay fails, there is no indication of that (other than the adverse effects that might happen). That's just my opinion, but I can understand fringe scenarios where there just isn't a way to get the solar connected on the line side. As long as the customer signs off on the risks, I would do it, but cautiously. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 4:41 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Interesting. Somebody else recommended a web-based version of what you > did. You were ahead of the times. I might pursue this with the web > option...not the radios. Same concept - different technology. > > Thank you. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* William Miller > *Sent:* Monday, January 26, 2026 3:28:04 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com > *Subject:* RE: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > Friends: > > > > I had the same problem: Enphase arrays on an outbuilding which was > connected to the generator side of a transfer switch. I had no independent > power path from the grid to the outbuilding so the Enphase had to be > connected to the load side of the transfer switch. When the large > generator was powering the facility and the sun was out the generator acted > wonky (unstable voltage). > > > > My solution was to buy a transceiver set (National Control Devices > MlrXR2x). I powered one radio from the grid side of the transfer switch > and the other radio controlled a contactor on the remote Enphase feeders. > When the grid goes down the contactor opens. > > > > The radios were inside of two buildings and the reception was borderline. > I augmented the included 900 mHz rubber duckies by replacing them with > panel antennas from Pasternak. So far the system is operating as intended. > > > > If anyone wants details let me know. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 12:45 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > > > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS > where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of > the ATS. > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > 254-300-1228 > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > > > I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with > its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and > generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong > about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing > specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their > ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced > energy, it can destroy the generator controller. > > That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling > input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. > > > > The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC > coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the > grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is > detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the > generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, > but I would not take the risk. > > > > I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not > exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the > Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the > CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop > could be fast enough. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Good day, > > > > I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 > microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it > might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a > whole-house generator. > > > > We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all > the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and > generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the > solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. > > > > But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer > switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the > grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching > capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator > when it is operating for a grid anomaly? > > I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got > me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease > production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > TECL 29755 > > 254-300-1228 > > [image: cid:image002.png at 01DC8AD7.93B49780] > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 9422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Tue Jan 27 13:02:28 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:02:28 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4f72df73ebef973bd7314b89e0683e8d@sti.net> The failsafe for me offgrid, is the owner has to know how to do these things. I say bye bye if they are not capable. Sleep really well with the independance concept. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3] [2] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-27 9:14 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > I don't like to install anything that isn't failsafe for this purpose, > so if it relies on a NC relay opening upon receiving generator voltage, > I usually won't consider it because the relay can fail. And if the > relay fails, there is no indication of that (other than the adverse > effects that might happen). > > That's just my opinion, but I can understand fringe scenarios where > there just isn't a way to get the solar connected on the line side. As > long as the customer signs off on the risks, I would do it, but > cautiously. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 4:41 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Interesting. Somebody else recommended a web-based version of what you > did. You were ahead of the times. I might pursue this with the web > option...not the radios. Same concept - different technology. > > Thank you. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------- > > From: William Miller > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2026 3:28:04 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: scot.arey at solarcentex.com > Subject: RE: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > Friends: > > I had the same problem: Enphase arrays on an outbuilding which was > connected to the generator side of a transfer switch. I had no > independent power path from the grid to the outbuilding so the Enphase > had to be connected to the load side of the transfer switch. When the > large generator was powering the facility and the sun was out the > generator acted wonky (unstable voltage). > > My solution was to buy a transceiver set (National Control Devices > MlrXR2x). I powered one radio from the grid side of the transfer > switch and the other radio controlled a contactor on the remote Enphase > feeders. When the grid goes down the contactor opens. > > The radios were inside of two buildings and the reception was > borderline. I augmented the included 900 mHz rubber duckies by > replacing them with panel antennas from Pasternak. So far the system > is operating as intended. > > If anyone wants details let me know. > > William > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com [1] > > CA License C-10 77398 > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2026 12:45 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: scot.arey at solarcentex.com > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without > ESS where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line > side of the ATS. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > > Owner, Solar CenTex > > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------- > > From: RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jason Szumlanski > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator > with its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, > and generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be > wrong about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing > specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in > their ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced > energy, it can destroy the generator controller. > > That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC > coupling input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator > power. > > The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC > coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware > dependent). > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the > grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is > detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the > generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be > nil, but I would not take the risk. > > I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not > exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the > Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from > the CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication > loop could be fast enough. > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Good day, > > I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 > microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if > it might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a > whole-house generator. > > We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but > all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and > generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry > the solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. > > But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the > transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow > to when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to that > fast switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't > backfeed a generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? > > I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability > got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI > to cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS > system design? > > Howard "Scot" Arey > > Owner, Solar CenTex > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > TECL 29755 > > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.millersolar.com/ [2] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [3] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Jan 27 13:07:31 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:07:31 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The design relies on a relay relaxing upon *loss* of grid voltage. This is fail-safe. Furthermore, Enphase can be configured to send an email if production is lost so if the system fails as it should, in the no-production state, someone gets notified. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 9:17 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I don't like to install anything that isn't failsafe for this purpose, so > if it relies on a NC relay opening upon receiving generator voltage, I > usually won't consider it because the relay can fail. And if the > relay fails, there is no indication of that (other than the adverse effects > that might happen). > > That's just my opinion, but I can understand fringe scenarios where there > just isn't a way to get the solar connected on the line side. As long as > the customer signs off on the risks, I would do it, but cautiously. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 4:41 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Interesting. Somebody else recommended a web-based version of what you >> did. You were ahead of the times. I might pursue this with the web >> option...not the radios. Same concept - different technology. >> >> Thank you. >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* William Miller >> *Sent:* Monday, January 26, 2026 3:28:04 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com >> *Subject:* RE: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a >> generator during grid interruptions >> >> Friends: >> >> >> >> I had the same problem: Enphase arrays on an outbuilding which was >> connected to the generator side of a transfer switch. I had no independent >> power path from the grid to the outbuilding so the Enphase had to be >> connected to the load side of the transfer switch. When the large >> generator was powering the facility and the sun was out the generator acted >> wonky (unstable voltage). >> >> >> >> My solution was to buy a transceiver set (National Control Devices >> MlrXR2x). I powered one radio from the grid side of the transfer switch >> and the other radio controlled a contactor on the remote Enphase feeders. >> When the grid goes down the contactor opens. >> >> >> >> The radios were inside of two buildings and the reception was >> borderline. I augmented the included 900 mHz rubber duckies by replacing >> them with panel antennas from Pasternak. So far the system is operating as >> intended. >> >> >> >> If anyone wants details let me know. >> >> >> >> William >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA License C-10 77398 >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >> Behalf Of *scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 12:45 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a >> generator during grid interruptions >> >> >> >> Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS >> where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the >> generator/ATS. >> >> Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but >> the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of >> the ATS. >> >> >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> 254-300-1228 >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches on >> behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a >> generator during grid interruptions >> >> >> >> I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with >> its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and >> generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong >> about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing >> specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their >> ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. >> >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced >> energy, it can destroy the generator controller. >> >> That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling >> input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. >> >> >> >> The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC >> coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the >> grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is >> detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the >> generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, >> but I would not take the risk. >> >> >> >> I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not >> exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the >> Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the >> CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop >> could be fast enough. >> >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Good day, >> >> >> >> I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 >> microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it >> might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a >> whole-house generator. >> >> >> >> We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all >> the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and >> generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the >> solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. >> >> >> >> But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer >> switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the >> grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching >> capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator >> when it is operating for a grid anomaly? >> >> I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability >> got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to >> cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system >> design? >> >> >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> >> TECL 29755 >> >> 254-300-1228 >> >> [image: cid:image002.png at 01DC8AD7.93B49780] >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 9422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Jan 27 13:08:24 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:08:24 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: <4f72df73ebef973bd7314b89e0683e8d@sti.net> References: <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> <4f72df73ebef973bd7314b89e0683e8d@sti.net> Message-ID: What if the owner is not home at the time? William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 10:07 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > The failsafe for me offgrid, is the owner has to know how to do these > things. I say bye bye if they are not capable. Sleep really well with the > independance concept. > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2026-01-27 9:14 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I don't like to install anything that isn't failsafe for this purpose, so > if it relies on a NC relay opening upon receiving generator voltage, I > usually won't consider it because the relay can fail. And if the > relay fails, there is no indication of that (other than the adverse effects > that might happen). > > That's just my opinion, but I can understand fringe scenarios where there > just isn't a way to get the solar connected on the line side. As long as > the customer signs off on the risks, I would do it, but cautiously. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 4:41 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Interesting. Somebody else recommended a web-based version of what you > did. You were ahead of the times. I might pursue this with the web > option...not the radios. Same concept - different technology. > > Thank you. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* William Miller > *Sent:* Monday, January 26, 2026 3:28:04 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com > *Subject:* RE: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > Friends: > > > > I had the same problem: Enphase arrays on an outbuilding which was > connected to the generator side of a transfer switch. I had no independent > power path from the grid to the outbuilding so the Enphase had to be > connected to the load side of the transfer switch. When the large > generator was powering the facility and the sun was out the generator acted > wonky (unstable voltage). > > > > My solution was to buy a transceiver set (National Control Devices > MlrXR2x). I powered one radio from the grid side of the transfer switch > and the other radio controlled a contactor on the remote Enphase feeders. > When the grid goes down the contactor opens. > > > > The radios were inside of two buildings and the reception was borderline. > I augmented the included 900 mHz rubber duckies by replacing them with > panel antennas from Pasternak. So far the system is operating as intended. > > > > If anyone wants details let me know. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 12:45 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > > > Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS > where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the > generator/ATS. > > Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but > the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of > the ATS. > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > 254-300-1228 > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator > during grid interruptions > > > > I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with > its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and > generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong > about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing > specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their > ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. > > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced > energy, it can destroy the generator controller. > > That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling > input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. > > > > The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC > coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the > grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is > detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the > generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, > but I would not take the risk. > > > > I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not > exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the > Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the > CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop > could be fast enough. > > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Good day, > > > > I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 > microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it > might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a > whole-house generator. > > > > We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but all > the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and > generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the > solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. > > > > But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the transfer > switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to when the > grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast switching > capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a generator > when it is operating for a grid anomaly? > > I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability got > me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to cease > production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system design? > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > TECL 29755 > > 254-300-1228 > > [image: cid:image002.png at 01DC8AD7.93B49780] > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Tue Jan 27 13:15:27 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:15:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics Data sunset In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William. You are having better luck than I, if you got 4 emails from Optics/Outback. I requested a number of year long files (5 total I think) over a week ago, and have gotten NO response. And NO response when I emailed support to ask about it either. I was going to try to re-request them all today..... This seems more and more like the new owners are trying to slowly kill off Outback. Just like a lot of us suspected from the beginning. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Tue Jan 27 13:19:38 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 10:19:38 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been trying to look into the UL3741 shutdown instead of doing module level shutdown, but so far, have not found any racking/inverter/shutdown device combinations that work -- primarily designing battery backup grid tie systems or off grid systems. My understanding is that all three need to be listed to work together, and I could not find any battery based inverters (other than Tesla and Growatt maybe) that were listed with anything else. Mostly I've just been doing ground mount arrays, or APsystems RSD devices on every module when it's roof mounted. But have not yet had luck finding equipment for a string level solution. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jan 27 13:21:46 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 13:21:46 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a generator during grid interruptions In-Reply-To: References: <851496cacccfe782e1114eb39c1255dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, that’s the way to do it. I suppose there is still the chance, however, that the grid could still be present, but the transfer switch is still in off-grid mode (like if the main breaker is turned off for some reason). That could still result in AC coupled solar backfeeding a generator if close attention is not paid to the relay coil source relative to all disconnects in a system. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 1:07 PM William Miller wrote: > The design relies on a relay relaxing upon *loss* of grid voltage. This > is fail-safe. > > Furthermore, Enphase can be configured to send an email if production is > lost so if the system fails as it should, in the no-production state, > someone gets notified. > > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 9:17 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I don't like to install anything that isn't failsafe for this purpose, so >> if it relies on a NC relay opening upon receiving generator voltage, I >> usually won't consider it because the relay can fail. And if the >> relay fails, there is no indication of that (other than the adverse effects >> that might happen). >> >> That's just my opinion, but I can understand fringe scenarios where there >> just isn't a way to get the solar connected on the line side. As long as >> the customer signs off on the risks, I would do it, but cautiously. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2026 at 4:41 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Interesting. Somebody else recommended a web-based version of what you >>> did. You were ahead of the times. I might pursue this with the web >>> option...not the radios. Same concept - different technology. >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >>> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >>> >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> TECL 29755 >>> 254-300-1228 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* William Miller >>> *Sent:* Monday, January 26, 2026 3:28:04 PM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com >>> *Subject:* RE: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a >>> generator during grid interruptions >>> >>> Friends: >>> >>> >>> >>> I had the same problem: Enphase arrays on an outbuilding which was >>> connected to the generator side of a transfer switch. I had no independent >>> power path from the grid to the outbuilding so the Enphase had to be >>> connected to the load side of the transfer switch. When the large >>> generator was powering the facility and the sun was out the generator acted >>> wonky (unstable voltage). >>> >>> >>> >>> My solution was to buy a transceiver set (National Control Devices >>> MlrXR2x). I powered one radio from the grid side of the transfer switch >>> and the other radio controlled a contactor on the remote Enphase feeders. >>> When the grid goes down the contactor opens. >>> >>> >>> >>> The radios were inside of two buildings and the reception was >>> borderline. I augmented the included 900 mHz rubber duckies by replacing >>> them with panel antennas from Pasternak. So far the system is operating as >>> intended. >>> >>> >>> >>> If anyone wants details let me know. >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA License C-10 77398 >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >>> Behalf Of *scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 12:45 PM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a >>> generator during grid interruptions >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks but I'm just trying to grid-tie a small Enphase array without ESS >>> where the point of interconnection is on the customer side of the >>> generator/ATS. >>> >>> Trying to use existing wires in place to simplify and lower costs...but >>> the generator is my constraint because I need the PoI to be on line side of >>> the ATS. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >>> >>> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >>> >>> 254-300-1228 >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches on >>> behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2026 2:33 PM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Will IQ8 microinverters backfeed a >>> generator during grid interruptions >>> >>> >>> >>> I should have also noted that Enphase DOES allow use of a generator with >>> its System Controller 3G, and supposedly the inverter, battery, and >>> generator sources can all power loads simultaneously, so I could be wrong >>> about how the IQ8s work. That said, Enphase has strict pairing >>> specifications and an approved generator list. They seem confident in their >>> ability to limit backfeed to the generator in this scenario. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 3:16 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> If the AC coupled exported energy is more than the generator produced >>> energy, it can destroy the generator controller. >>> >>> That is why most AIO inverters have a relay on the dedicated AC coupling >>> input. It will open the relay if the inverter sees generator power. >>> >>> >>> >>> The MNP AIO will allow both inputs, but will open the relay if the AC >>> coupled power increases to 20% of the Generator input (firmware dependent). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 2:27 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> Enphase IQ8 microinverters will absolutely leak some power back to the >>> grid when set to a no-export grid profile. How much, and if that is >>> detrimental to the generator is another question. I suspect if the >>> generator is large enough relative to the PV array, the impact will be nil, >>> but I would not take the risk. >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't think the fast switching really does the trick in terms of not >>> exporting. That function relies on the consumption CTs connected to the >>> Gateway, which in turn communicates with the microinverters. Aside from the >>> CTs not being totally accurate, I don't see how that communication loop >>> could be fast enough. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 12:09 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> >>> >>> I many years ago watched the fast-switching capabilities of the IQ-8 >>> microinverters to produce only what demanded of the MI, and wondered if it >>> might have application in a grid-tied system that is served by a >>> whole-house generator. >>> >>> >>> >>> We have the opportunity to install grid-tied-only array of 24 IQ8 but >>> all the MIs will be on the customer side of an auto-transfer switch and >>> generator. We want to leverage using existing building wiring to carry the >>> solar and all solar sizing meets the 120% rules. >>> >>> >>> >>> But I know that grid-tied solar on the customer load-side of the >>> transfer switch means no place for full solar power production to flow to >>> when the grid is not available...but then I thought back to that fast >>> switching capability: is there a way to ensure the IQ8 don't backfeed a >>> generator when it is operating for a grid anomaly? >>> >>> I suspect the answer is "are you nuts???" but that video of capability >>> got me thinking, "why not?" and if not, how is it - what tells the MI to >>> cease production? - when it is within a full and proper ISC/ESS system >>> design? >>> >>> >>> >>> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >>> >>> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >>> >>> >>> >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> >>> TECL 29755 >>> >>> 254-300-1228 >>> >>> [image: cid:image002.png at 01DC8AD7.93B49780] >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 9422 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Jan 27 14:46:26 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 12:46:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch Message-ID: <6529f5a6-c6f8-4201-b610-761fe964912a@solarray.com> Greetings Wrenches; I just recently purchased a couple of Eaton 100 A manual transfer switches (DT 223URH-N) from Amazon.  They appear to be UL listed, but the quality is non UL, import level.  The handle is loose, and there is almost no middle detent to hold it in the off position. It just glides from "on" at the top through "off" in the middle, to "on" at the bottom, without catching.  It is supposedly service entrance rated, which it needs to be, but it is nothing like T switches I've worked with before.  Some of those seemed over kill, and needed 30lbs or more of force to over come the springs that hold it in each position. Did I get a counterfeit, or is this just how this switch works? I purposely avoided the Vevor, and other Chinese brands because they were not UL listed.  There are some really crappy electrical products being sold into the US market right now.   The Eaton brand was 4 times the price of the Vevor, but I don't think it's any better, that's why I'm suspecting its counterfeit.  I know from the music industry, that we are being flooded with counterfeit equipment in that industry. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar From Sue at midnitesolar.com Tue Jan 27 14:52:19 2026 From: Sue at midnitesolar.com (Sue Stankevitz) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 19:52:19 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS In-Reply-To: <1b146cc47fa52601a606b52387ef7e3f@oregonsunwrangler.com> References: <1b146cc47fa52601a606b52387ef7e3f@oregonsunwrangler.com> Message-ID: At this time Midnite Solar does not have a replacement for the string level RSD on our roadmap. With the new UL requirement for double redundancy failsafe requiring substantial design change the decision was made to no longer push forward in that market. Sue Stankevitz MidNite Solar, Inc. (360) 403-7207 (XT122) -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Brett Stigile via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, January 26, 2026 10:42 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Brett Stigile Subject: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS I was hoping to do an up coming job with MidNite Solar (MNSSR-600SS) string level shut down. However, I just learned that the product has been discontinued. I'm moving forward with AP smart because I don't have time to mess with it. However, I have several questions. Will a similar new product take its place? If a string level shut down device is available again will that satisfy 690.12 code requirements for roof mounted residential under NEC 2023 or NEC 2026 on it's own? Or does UL3741 come into play? For example, would a MidNite AIO with Unirac NXT racking (which is UL3741) with string level shut down and of course wiring everything nice and neat with appropriate listed wire management comply with NEC under 2023 or 2026 code? I'm just trying to figure out if string level shut down is a viable option with new code cycles or if it is a waste of time. thank you -- Brett Stigile Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician 503-317-7950 brett at oregonsunwrangler.com Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC CCB: 240661 License: 66LRT NABCEP PV Installation Professional certification: PV 100414-008123 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From dave at sungineersolar.com Tue Jan 27 15:00:54 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 15:00:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch In-Reply-To: <6529f5a6-c6f8-4201-b610-761fe964912a@solarray.com> References: <6529f5a6-c6f8-4201-b610-761fe964912a@solarray.com> Message-ID: I am not sure about those Eaton switches. But I often get the GE TC10323R for this purpose and they seem decent. Home Depot has them. I am surprised by what you are experiencing with those Eaton switches though. Something is definitely wrong if they don't require a bit of force to move. I'd return those. Cheers, Dave On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 2:48 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Greetings Wrenches; > > I just recently purchased a couple of Eaton 100 A manual transfer > switches (DT 223URH-N) from Amazon. They appear to be UL listed, but > the quality is non UL, import level. The handle is loose, and there is > almost no middle detent to hold it in the off position. It just glides > from "on" at the top through "off" in the middle, to "on" at the bottom, > without catching. It is supposedly service entrance rated, which it > needs to be, but it is nothing like T switches I've worked with before. > Some of those seemed over kill, and needed 30lbs or more of force to > over come the springs that hold it in each position. > > Did I get a counterfeit, or is this just how this switch works? I > purposely avoided the Vevor, and other Chinese brands because they were > not UL listed. There are some really crappy electrical products being > sold into the US market right now. The Eaton brand was 4 times the > price of the Vevor, but I don't think it's any better, that's why I'm > suspecting its counterfeit. I know from the music industry, that we are > being flooded with counterfeit equipment in that industry. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Tue Jan 27 15:08:42 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 15:08:42 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005f01dc8fc8$bd01df80$37059e80$@mindspring.com> Zeke We have used AP Smart and Sol-Ark, utilizing the AP Smart transmitter. No problems. Not sure but they did make a double panel unit. Maybe down the road more companies will provide the AP Smart transmitter in the inverter like Solis for Grid Tied. Thx peter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2026 1:20 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Zeke Yewdall Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS I've been trying to look into the UL3741 shutdown instead of doing module level shutdown, but so far, have not found any racking/inverter/shutdown device combinations that work -- primarily designing battery backup grid tie systems or off grid systems. My understanding is that all three need to be listed to work together, and I could not find any battery based inverters (other than Tesla and Growatt maybe) that were listed with anything else. Mostly I've just been doing ground mount arrays, or APsystems RSD devices on every module when it's roof mounted. But have not yet had luck finding equipment for a string level solution. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Jan 27 15:09:10 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 12:09:10 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS In-Reply-To: References: <1b146cc47fa52601a606b52387ef7e3f@oregonsunwrangler.com> Message-ID: It seems to me the only viable option is to not put the electronics in any building with other uses. That avoids the requirement (unless that exception is changing). A line of pre-fab, stand-alone enclosures might be a direction for any manufacture or integrator to explore. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 11:55 AM Sue Stankevitz via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > At this time Midnite Solar does not have a replacement for the string > level RSD on our roadmap. With the new UL requirement for double redundancy > failsafe requiring substantial design change the decision was made to no > longer push forward in that market. > > Sue Stankevitz > > MidNite Solar, Inc. > > (360) 403-7207 (XT122) > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of Brett Stigile via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, January 26, 2026 10:42 PM > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Cc: Brett Stigile > Subject: [RE-wrenches] MidNite MNSSR-600-SS > > I was hoping to do an up coming job with MidNite Solar (MNSSR-600SS) > string level shut down. However, I just learned that the product has been > discontinued. I'm moving forward with AP smart because I don't have time > to mess with it. > > However, I have several questions. > > Will a similar new product take its place? > > If a string level shut down device is available again will that satisfy > 690.12 code requirements for roof mounted residential under NEC 2023 or > NEC 2026 on it's own? Or does UL3741 come into play? > > For example, would a MidNite AIO with Unirac NXT racking (which is > UL3741) with string level shut down and of course wiring everything nice > and neat with appropriate listed wire management comply with NEC under > 2023 or 2026 code? > > I'm just trying to figure out if string level shut down is a viable option > with new code cycles or if it is a waste of time. > > thank you > > -- > Brett Stigile > Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician > 503-317-7950 > brett at oregonsunwrangler.com > > Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC > CCB: 240661 > License: 66LRT > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > certification: PV 100414-008123 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Jan 27 14:56:27 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 11:56:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch In-Reply-To: <6529f5a6-c6f8-4201-b610-761fe964912a@solarray.com> References: <6529f5a6-c6f8-4201-b610-761fe964912a@solarray.com> Message-ID: <858c7f0155d5ddd4426988fa45bf2837@mail.gmail.com> Ray: With the non-detent you appear to have acquired a manual, UPS-grade transfer switch. William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2026 11:46 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: Ray Walters Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch Greetings Wrenches; I just recently purchased a couple of Eaton 100 A manual transfer switches (DT 223URH-N) from Amazon. They appear to be UL listed, but the quality is non UL, import level. The handle is loose, and there is almost no middle detent to hold it in the off position. It just glides from "on" at the top through "off" in the middle, to "on" at the bottom, without catching. It is supposedly service entrance rated, which it needs to be, but it is nothing like T switches I've worked with before. Some of those seemed over kill, and needed 30lbs or more of force to over come the springs that hold it in each position. Did I get a counterfeit, or is this just how this switch works? I purposely avoided the Vevor, and other Chinese brands because they were not UL listed. There are some really crappy electrical products being sold into the US market right now. The Eaton brand was 4 times the price of the Vevor, but I don't think it's any better, that's why I'm suspecting its counterfeit. I know from the music industry, that we are being flooded with counterfeit equipment in that industry. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From ray at solarray.com Tue Jan 27 16:39:38 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 14:39:38 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch In-Reply-To: <858c7f0155d5ddd4426988fa45bf2837@mail.gmail.com> References: <6529f5a6-c6f8-4201-b610-761fe964912a@solarray.com> <858c7f0155d5ddd4426988fa45bf2837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <715cd0c3-c001-4af3-87c4-5b9d347bab25@solarray.com> Which is what it is being used for.  It's for power backup to plug in a portable generator. I talked to Eaton, and they didn't think it was a legitimate reseller, since it was on Amazon.  I'll report to the list what I find out on whether it's a genuine Eaton switch or not.  Non UL and/ or counterfeit equipment is definitely bad for the electrical industry. Thanks, Ray Walters On 1/27/2026 12:56 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > Ray: > > With the non-detent you appear to have acquired a manual, UPS-grade transfer > switch. > > William Miller > Miller Solar > www.millersolar.com > CA License C-10 77398 > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2026 11:46 AM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Ray Walters > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch > > Greetings Wrenches; > > I just recently purchased a couple of Eaton 100 A manual transfer > switches (DT 223URH-N) from Amazon. They appear to be UL listed, but > the quality is non UL, import level. The handle is loose, and there is > almost no middle detent to hold it in the off position. It just glides > from "on" at the top through "off" in the middle, to "on" at the bottom, > without catching. It is supposedly service entrance rated, which it > needs to be, but it is nothing like T switches I've worked with before. > Some of those seemed over kill, and needed 30lbs or more of force to > over come the springs that hold it in each position. > > Did I get a counterfeit, or is this just how this switch works? I > purposely avoided the Vevor, and other Chinese brands because they were > not UL listed. There are some really crappy electrical products being > sold into the US market right now. The Eaton brand was 4 times the > price of the Vevor, but I don't think it's any better, that's why I'm > suspecting its counterfeit. I know from the music industry, that we are > being flooded with counterfeit equipment in that industry. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Jan 27 16:49:53 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 16:49:53 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch In-Reply-To: <858c7f0155d5ddd4426988fa45bf2837@mail.gmail.com> References: <6529f5a6-c6f8-4201-b610-761fe964912a@solarray.com> <858c7f0155d5ddd4426988fa45bf2837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: DT 223URK-NPS is a AC/DC version of the DT 223URH-N. I bought the URK version from my local electrical supplier a few months ago. URK is larger. And for what it's worth, it has the same minimal detent as the URH described by Ray. Both are rated for service entrance. So counterfeit? Who knows On Tue, Jan 27, 2026 at 3:19 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Ray: > > With the non-detent you appear to have acquired a manual, UPS-grade > transfer > switch. > > William Miller > Miller Solar > www.millersolar.com > CA License C-10 77398 > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2026 11:46 AM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Ray Walters > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eaton T Switch > > Greetings Wrenches; > > I just recently purchased a couple of Eaton 100 A manual transfer > switches (DT 223URH-N) from Amazon. They appear to be UL listed, but > the quality is non UL, import level. The handle is loose, and there is > almost no middle detent to hold it in the off position. It just glides > from "on" at the top through "off" in the middle, to "on" at the bottom, > without catching. It is supposedly service entrance rated, which it > needs to be, but it is nothing like T switches I've worked with before. > Some of those seemed over kill, and needed 30lbs or more of force to > over come the springs that hold it in each position. > > Did I get a counterfeit, or is this just how this switch works? I > purposely avoided the Vevor, and other Chinese brands because they were > not UL listed. There are some really crappy electrical products being > sold into the US market right now. The Eaton brand was 4 times the > price of the Vevor, but I don't think it's any better, that's why I'm > suspecting its counterfeit. I know from the music industry, that we are > being flooded with counterfeit equipment in that industry. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 13:12:06 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 11:12:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] discover AES battery and LYNK 2 Message-ID: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> HI All I wonder if anyone has real work Experience with the LYNK 2 and the Aes battery. I”ve got some questions and pls feel free to contact me off list I guess jay From chris at solarandwindfx.com Thu Jan 29 13:14:55 2026 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 13:14:55 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Victron and Optics RE Message-ID: Anyone else having issues today logging into Optics RE? I've tried multiple times today to no avail. I can't even bring up the log in page. I received a call from a young mother of 4 without water for over a week. A total DIY by the husband whom just up and left the family before the holidays. So sad. Anyway, it consists of an offgrid twin set of Victron MultiPlus 12 dcv/120acv inverters. OMG, what a mess. They are wired to provide 240vac to the clients SEP. Two questions. One, I can't seem to find a Tech support number for Victron on their website. I can email the sales team and have requested several times now for the phone number of their tech support team but my request continue to go unfulfilled. Two, I need a Victron hard wired battery monitor for the system as it is located in the basement and I wish to provide the client with a monitor for their upstairs kitchen. I will need to add a shunt. Their website offers many options with little details. What might y'all suggest. A part number would be extremely helpful. Thanks, Christopher- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From windsine at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 13:43:51 2026 From: windsine at gmail.com (Roy Rakobitsch) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 12:43:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Victron and Optics RE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris, Ive stopped using OpticsRE for a while now as its not been reliable. Many others have complained about this also. With regards to Victron, they seem to not offer tech support to their customers directly and expect the customer to use the Victron Community page for resources or to contact the distributor that they purchased their products through. If you bought from Amazon, id expect it pretty hard to get any warranty/ support! Victron SmartShunt works pretty well for a battery monitor (especially if you integrate it with a Cerbo GX). The Cerbo GX will give you total local system visibility and if you have an internet connection, will give you the ability to view over the web via Victron VRM. The downside of the SmartShunt (if you dont have a Cerbo GX) is that the data is only available via their Bluetooth app and sometimes getting Bluetooth reception from the shunt is difficult if the shunt is installed inside a metallic battery or DC enclosure. I recommend the BMV-712 instead. Same basic functionality as the SmartShunt, however the shunt measurement board can be removed from the shunt (if needed) and placed on any shunt. Shunt settings can be programmed via the remote display (50mv, 100mv, etc) The BMV-712 Bluetooth transmitter is inside the remote display, and therefore can be located outside of the enclosure or remotely making Bluetooth easier to connect to. Hope that helps. Roy Rakobitsch Windsine LLC 631-514-4166 On Thu, Jan 29, 2026 at 12:19 PM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Anyone else having issues today logging into Optics RE? I've tried > multiple times today to no avail. I can't even bring up the log in page. > > I received a call from a young mother of 4 without water for over a week. > A total DIY by the husband whom just up and left the family before the > holidays. So sad. Anyway, it consists of an offgrid twin set of Victron > MultiPlus 12 dcv/120acv inverters. OMG, what a mess. They are wired to > provide 240vac to the clients SEP. > > Two questions. One, I can't seem to find a Tech support number for Victron > on their website. I can email the sales team and have requested several > times now for the phone number of their tech support team but my request > continue to go unfulfilled. > Two, I need a Victron hard wired battery monitor for the system as it is > located in the basement and I wish to provide the client with a monitor for > their upstairs kitchen. I will need to add a shunt. Their website offers > many options with little details. What might y'all suggest. A part number > would be extremely helpful. > > Thanks, > Christopher- > > Chris Schaefer’s > > > *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com > ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > * > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cheezemanrich at gmail.com Thu Jan 29 13:45:02 2026 From: cheezemanrich at gmail.com (Richard Scott) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 10:45:02 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Victron and Optics RE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Victron does support through their dealers. Try Current Connected: https://www.currentconnected.com Rich On Thu, Jan 29, 2026 at 10:20 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Anyone else having issues today logging into Optics RE? I've tried > multiple times today to no avail. I can't even bring up the log in page. > > I received a call from a young mother of 4 without water for over a week. > A total DIY by the husband whom just up and left the family before the > holidays. So sad. Anyway, it consists of an offgrid twin set of Victron > MultiPlus 12 dcv/120acv inverters. OMG, what a mess. They are wired to > provide 240vac to the clients SEP. > > Two questions. One, I can't seem to find a Tech support number for Victron > on their website. I can email the sales team and have requested several > times now for the phone number of their tech support team but my request > continue to go unfulfilled. > Two, I need a Victron hard wired battery monitor for the system as it is > located in the basement and I wish to provide the client with a monitor for > their upstairs kitchen. I will need to add a shunt. Their website offers > many options with little details. What might y'all suggest. A part number > would be extremely helpful. > > Thanks, > Christopher- > > Chris Schaefer’s > > > *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com > ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > * > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toddcory at finestplanet.com Thu Jan 29 14:04:53 2026 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (toddcory at finestplanet.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 11:04:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Victron and Optics RE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1769713493.610523903@webmail.finestplanet.com> Optics (surprisingly) is working fine here. I do need to occasionally reboot my Mate3s (from 5000 miles away), but as others have said OB seems to be dying a slow death so probably nothing to depend on in the future. Sometimes you need to use this when the main page is down: [ https://23.99.68.42/Home/#/system/dashboard ]( https://23.99.68.42/Home/#/system/dashboard ) On Thursday, January 29, 2026 10:14am, "Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches" said: Anyone else having issues today logging into Optics RE? I've tried multiple times today to no avail. I can't even bring up the log in page. Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Thu Jan 29 16:25:13 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 13:25:13 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Victron and Optics RE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Regarding Victron. They have a different model than many companies. Their distributors handle the tech support. So, it's important when buying victron components to evaluate how knowledgeable and available the distributor is. If soneone buys off of Amazon or a cheap internet retailer, I would expect to have to figure out all out on their own. If you have a good relationship with your victron dealer, you could probably get them to handle support and warranty for inherited systems like this, if you do enough business with them for new sales. They can also help you with the details of what monitor does what... victron unfortunately or fortunately has a dizzying array of options, and I am always calling my distributor to ask what the various options really do :P I do like Roy's suggestions on monitoring, but also one thing I've found is that you must have a windows laptop to do some of the programming for the inverters -- cannot do it via any other method of computer onsite or remote or victron control panel. For OpticsRE... it is working for me today, but they have yet to email me my data files, I requested them yet again yesterday. Like many have said, Outback appears to be dying a slow painful death as a company :( Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 00:49:01 2026 From: lucchesesolar at gmail.com (Nick Lucchese) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2026 21:49:01 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] discover AES battery and LYNK 2 In-Reply-To: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> References: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good timing Jay! I was just about to ask if anyone has had consistent success with closed loop pairing of the Discover batteries like the AES and Helios with the Lynk 2 and Sunny Islands. It could really help a lot of SMA owners if it were a reliable offering. Nick On Thu, Jan 29, 2026 at 10:15 AM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI All > > I wonder if anyone has real work Experience with the LYNK 2 and the Aes > battery. > > I”ve got some questions and pls feel free to contact me off list I guess > > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 10:27:11 2026 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2026 07:27:11 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] discover AES battery and LYNK 2 In-Reply-To: References: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've had no issues with a 12 battery AES 3 kWh and Lynk 2 and Schneider XW+ inverter via XW Gateway (Insight Facility). When I paralleled another larger AES battery to the Xanbus network I had to figure out how to name them so they both showed up on Insight local. The older SCP does not show both battery banks however. My Lynk 2 is an early version so it does not have Ethernet capability (I think). I'm still trying to find feedback on how the Hoymiles hybrid inverters are working for installers, and if there is a way to integrate it with the Lynk 2. Brad On Thu, Jan 29, 2026 at 9:50 PM Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good timing Jay! I was just about to ask if anyone has had consistent > success with closed loop pairing of the Discover batteries like the AES and > Helios with the Lynk 2 and Sunny Islands. It could really help a lot of SMA > owners if it were a reliable offering. > > Nick > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2026 at 10:15 AM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> HI All >> >> I wonder if anyone has real work Experience with the LYNK 2 and the Aes >> battery. >> >> I”ve got some questions and pls feel free to contact me off list I guess >> >> jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Fri Jan 30 14:36:51 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2026 11:36:51 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] discover AES battery and LYNK 2 In-Reply-To: References: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> Message-ID: AES Helios, the Rack, and the 6650 series work great with Schneider closed with Lynk 2. They have the info in the lynk 2 manual for Sunny. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-01-29 9:49 pm, Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote: > Good timing Jay! I was just about to ask if anyone has had consistent > success with closed loop pairing of the Discover batteries like the AES > and Helios with the Lynk 2 and Sunny Islands. It could really help a > lot of SMA owners if it were a reliable offering. > > Nick > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2026 at 10:15 AM jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: > >> HI All >> >> I wonder if anyone has real work Experience with the LYNK 2 and the >> Aes battery. >> >> I"ve got some questions and pls feel free to contact me off list I >> guess >> >> jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Fri Jan 30 22:10:40 2026 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2026 22:10:40 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Victron and Optics RE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris, My usual loggin on My pc would not load but my iPhone worked fine. I then just typed in “OpticsRE “ on the google search line and it booted right up John B On Thu, Jan 29, 2026 at 1:19 PM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Anyone else having issues today logging into Optics RE? I've tried > multiple times today to no avail. I can't even bring up the log in page. > > I received a call from a young mother of 4 without water for over a week. > A total DIY by the husband whom just up and left the family before the > holidays. So sad. Anyway, it consists of an offgrid twin set of Victron > MultiPlus 12 dcv/120acv inverters. OMG, what a mess. They are wired to > provide 240vac to the clients SEP. > > Two questions. One, I can't seem to find a Tech support number for Victron > on their website. I can email the sales team and have requested several > times now for the phone number of their tech support team but my request > continue to go unfulfilled. > Two, I need a Victron hard wired battery monitor for the system as it is > located in the basement and I wish to provide the client with a monitor for > their upstairs kitchen. I will need to add a shunt. Their website offers > many options with little details. What might y'all suggest. A part number > would be extremely helpful. > > Thanks, > Christopher- > > Chris Schaefer’s > > > *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 > **www.solarandwindfx.com > ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > * > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Sat Jan 31 12:05:34 2026 From: frenergy at psln.com (Bill P. Battagin) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2026 12:05:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB........ -41 sources, connection box cover In-Reply-To: References: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> Message-ID: <653195286.103689330.1769879134962.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Fellow SMA Lovers, I have an installation that has 10, SMA SB-1SP-US -40 and -41's PG&E thought it would be a good idea to send a surge into the service of this install so 3 off the inverters were compromised. 1) I've gone to Ebay for replacements sometimes as SMA would not consider this a warranty issue. Anybody have a source for new or refurbished other than Ebay? 2) Also it would be good to know, can the bottom connection box covers with displays be swapped/interchanged between different inverters and between -40 and -41 versions? Thanks as always, Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, owner 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) CA. C10 Lic # 681552/874049 Solar Powered since 1982 Home of the Sunny Side Up -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 15:39:43 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2026 12:39:43 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB........ -41 sources, connection box cover In-Reply-To: <653195286.103689330.1769879134962.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> References: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> <653195286.103689330.1769879134962.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Message-ID: My belief is that most GT inverter failures are caused by grid surges of some kind. I'm surprised they would deny a warranty and unsure how they would prove the utility caused the problem. I've had several AC side failures of sunny boy inverters and never had SMA deny a warranty especially once sending device logs and onsite voltage readings. Open the top half and inspect for physical damage then document with photos. Should be an automatic RMA. Its common for them to send "top half" replacements. The online connectivity corresponds with the connection unit in the lower half and the top half serial needs to be added online so definitely keep track of all top and bottom serial numbers. As for a third party source for older inverters, I don't have any advice there. Ebay would probably be my first thought too. Best of luck! On Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 9:06 AM Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Fellow SMA Lovers, > > I have an installation that has 10, SMA SB-1SP-US -40 and -41's > PG&E thought it would be a good idea to send a surge into the service of > this install so 3 off the inverters were compromised. > > 1) I've gone to Ebay for replacements sometimes as SMA would not consider > this a warranty issue. Anybody have a source for new or refurbished other > than Ebay? > > 2) Also it would be good to know, can the bottom connection box covers > with displays be swapped/interchanged between different inverters and > between -40 and -41 versions? > > Thanks as always, > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, owner > 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)5575 Genesee Rd . (USPS, UPS) > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) > CA. C10 Lic # 681552/874049 > Solar Powered since 1982 > Home of the Sunny Side Up > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Jan 31 16:30:24 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2026 13:30:24 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB........ -41 sources, connection box cover In-Reply-To: References: <1833C277-9FE9-4C71-8C92-FE34E13A8B63@gmail.com> <653195286.103689330.1769879134962.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Message-ID: I hope everyone realizes the defective nature of the design of this inverter. There is no means to safely de-energize the PV prior to separating the top and bottom sections. Foolishly SMA put the PV disconnect in the top half. Read the service manual and you will see SMA recommends putting foil over the PV modules prior to servicing. https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/SMA_40_Series/Whats_wrong_with_40_Series.html Stay safe! William William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Sat, Jan 31, 2026 at 12:42 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My belief is that most GT inverter failures are caused by grid surges of > some kind. > > I'm surprised they would deny a warranty and unsure how they would prove > the utility caused the problem. I've had several AC side failures of sunny > boy inverters and never had SMA deny a warranty especially once sending > device logs and onsite voltage readings. Open the top half and inspect for > physical damage then document with photos. Should be an automatic RMA. > > Its common for them to send "top half" replacements. The online > connectivity corresponds with the connection unit in the lower half and the > top half serial needs to be added online so definitely keep track of all > top and bottom serial numbers. > > As for a third party source for older inverters, I don't have any advice > there. Ebay would probably be my first thought too. > > Best of luck! > > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2026, 9:06 AM Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Fellow SMA Lovers, >> >> I have an installation that has 10, SMA SB-1SP-US -40 and >> -41's PG&E thought it would be a good idea to send a surge into the >> service of this install so 3 off the inverters were compromised. >> >> 1) I've gone to Ebay for replacements sometimes as SMA would not >> consider this a warranty issue. Anybody have a source for new or >> refurbished other than Ebay? >> >> 2) Also it would be good to know, can the bottom connection box covers >> with displays be swapped/interchanged between different inverters and >> between -40 and -41 versions? >> >> Thanks as always, >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, owner >> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)5575 Genesee Rd . (USPS, UPS) >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) >> CA. C10 Lic # 681552/874049 >> Solar Powered since 1982 >> Home of the Sunny Side Up >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 19:12:50 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2026 17:12:50 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB........ -41 sources, connection box cover In-Reply-To: <653195286.103689330.1769879134962.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> References: <653195286.103689330.1769879134962.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Message-ID: Hi bill. I’m just wondering how did you confirm pg&E did the surge? I’d like to know for my own education Thx Jay > On Jan 31, 2026, at 10:06 AM, Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Fellow SMA Lovers, > > I have an installation that has 10, SMA SB-1SP-US -40 and -41's PG&E thought it would be a good idea to send a surge into the service of this install so 3 off the inverters were compromised. > > 1) I've gone to Ebay for replacements sometimes as SMA would not consider this a warranty issue. Anybody have a source for new or refurbished other than Ebay? > > 2) Also it would be good to know, can the bottom connection box covers with displays be swapped/interchanged between different inverters and between -40 and -41 versions? > > Thanks as always, > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, owner > 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping) > 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) > CA. C10 Lic # 681552/874049 > Solar Powered since 1982 > Home of the Sunny Side Up > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Sat Jan 31 20:33:14 2026 From: frenergy at psln.com (Bill P. Battagin) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2026 20:33:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB........ -41 sources, connection box cover In-Reply-To: References: <653195286.103689330.1769879134962.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Message-ID: <1771655492.104351072.1769909594851.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Jay, I was told by the owner and the maintenance person that there was an event where some snow that had built up on the lines, had let go during a melt and sprung up to contact other lines above. We've seen every possible type of snow here in the mid-elevation Sierras, it must have been some weird conditions that even allowed the snow to adhere to the lines in the first place......and then continue to build on that? I don't know more detail than that but PG&E is accepting responsibility for the event. Bill From: "Jay via RE-wrenches" To: "RE-wrenches" Cc: "Jay" Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2026 4:12:50 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB........ -41 sources, connection box cover Hi bill. I’m just wondering how did you confirm pg&E did the surge? I’d like to know for my own education Thx Jay On Jan 31, 2026, at 10:06 AM, Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches wrote: BQ_BEGIN Fellow SMA Lovers, I have an installation that has 10, SMA SB-1SP-US -40 and -41's PG&E thought it would be a good idea to send a surge into the service of this install so 3 off the inverters were compromised. 1) I've gone to Ebay for replacements sometimes as SMA would not consider this a warranty issue. Anybody have a source for new or refurbished other than Ebay? 2) Also it would be good to know, can the bottom connection box covers with displays be swapped/interchanged between different inverters and between -40 and -41 versions? Thanks as always, Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, owner 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) CA. C10 Lic # 681552/874049 Solar Powered since 1982 Home of the Sunny Side Up _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org BQ_END _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Feb 2 08:10:35 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 08:10:35 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses Message-ID: Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. Jason Szumlanski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Feb 2 08:17:53 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (Howard Scot Arey) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 07:17:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 08:36:19 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 05:36:19 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> References: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> Message-ID: Heatspring I believe has the most comprehensive, on demand, nabcep centric courses I'm aware of.. also not free or that cheap but readily available. On Mon, Feb 2, 2026, 5:18 AM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Solar Energy International. Not free but the content I saw last time was > very good. > > You're not alone on missing CEUs. After not going to last two or three > NABCEP CEU conferences I will attend the one in March in Milwaukee. The > last conference I attended was excellent and a real motivation boost being > around solar professionals. > > Ps...small shout out to Rolls batteries (I think you're on here): I could > listen to the lead acid battery charging discussion over and over. Loved > that demo of expert knowledge. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Monday, February 2, 2026 7:12:50 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses > > Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have > many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick > courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. > > Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online > courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course > catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. > > Jason Szumlanski > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Feb 2 08:46:59 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 08:46:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> Message-ID: That's where I have traditionally gone for coursework, aside from manufacturer-sponsored courses. I'll probably go this route. I think part of the problem is understanding what CE credits apply to what requirement classification. There seem to be very few that apply to the fire code requirement, for example. That's what I mean by the course catalog being convoluted. They need to do a better job of simplifying which courses qualify for which credits in the catalog. I'm going to try to get to Milwaukee this March, but I hope to be recertified well before then. Jason Szumlanski On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 8:39 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Heatspring I believe has the most comprehensive, on demand, nabcep centric > courses I'm aware of.. also not free or that cheap but readily available. > > > > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2026, 5:18 AM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Solar Energy International. Not free but the content I saw last time was >> very good. >> >> You're not alone on missing CEUs. After not going to last two or three >> NABCEP CEU conferences I will attend the one in March in Milwaukee. The >> last conference I attended was excellent and a real motivation boost being >> around solar professionals. >> >> Ps...small shout out to Rolls batteries (I think you're on here): I could >> listen to the lead acid battery charging discussion over and over. Loved >> that demo of expert knowledge. >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* RE-wrenches on >> behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Sent:* Monday, February 2, 2026 7:12:50 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses >> >> Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have >> many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick >> courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. >> >> Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online >> courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course >> catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Mon Feb 2 10:35:04 2026 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 08:35:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> Message-ID: I have rarely paid for any CE training for any of the three times I've recertified my NABCEP. That gets harder and harder to do every year but so far so good. Enphase has kept their training up-to-date and they have a six hour course related to their battery equipment you should look into. Here's the link to it from the NABCEP site: https://coursecatalog.nabcep.org/classes/enphase-storage-design-certification Cheers, Sam [image: OnSite Energy] Sam Haraldson Operations Specialist (406) 551-6135 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 11:09:03 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 09:09:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar assistant Message-ID: Hi all I know a number of you are very familiar with solar assistant monitoring. They can’t give me an answer if they work with Discover server rack batteries and the lynk2. Does anyone know? Thanks in advance Jay From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Mon Feb 2 11:24:12 2026 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 16:24:12 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> References: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> Message-ID: Having been in the renewable energy business for decades I am still learning new things all the time. I am also as cheap as the next guy and hate spending money. That being said, in my opinion you should embrace getting your CE credits in the manner for which it is intended and seek training in subjects you are interested in knowing more about there by increasing your knowledge, improving your skills, and staying current as technology evolves. Yes it is an investment, but done properly money well spent. Pieter Huebner Project Manager Off Grid Enterprises (405)202-5359 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, February 2, 2026 7:17 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Howard Scot Arey Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses Solar Energy International. Not free but the content I saw last time was very good. You're not alone on missing CEUs. After not going to last two or three NABCEP CEU conferences I will attend the one in March in Milwaukee. The last conference I attended was excellent and a real motivation boost being around solar professionals. Ps...small shout out to Rolls batteries (I think you're on here): I could listen to the lead acid battery charging discussion over and over. Loved that demo of expert knowledge. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, February 2, 2026 7:12:50 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. Jason Szumlanski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Mon Feb 2 11:29:07 2026 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 10:29:07 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Midwest Renewable Energy Association Also not free, but they have a nice spreadsheet to show CEU categories. https://midwestrenew.org/continuing-education/ Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 W 1st Ave Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 7:11 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have > many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick > courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. > > Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online > courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course > catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. > > Jason Szumlanski > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Feb 2 11:33:11 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 11:33:11 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: <0E6FDFBD-74EC-EA40-984B-559CD27CA003@hxcore.ol> Message-ID: I agree. Unfortunately, there is little that appeals to me from the course catalog that I have not taken already. That's why I want to get to Milwaukee this year. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 11:25 AM pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches wrote: > Having been in the renewable energy business for decades I am still > learning new things all the time. I am also as cheap as the next guy and > hate spending money. That being said, in my opinion you should embrace > getting your CE credits in the manner for which it is intended and seek > training in subjects you are interested in knowing more about there by > increasing your knowledge, improving your skills, and staying current as > technology evolves. Yes it is an investment, but done properly money well > spent. > Pieter Huebner > Project Manager > Off Grid Enterprises > (405)202-5359 > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Monday, February 2, 2026 7:17 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Howard Scot Arey > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses > > Solar Energy International. Not free but the content I saw last time was > very good. > > You're not alone on missing CEUs. After not going to last two or three > NABCEP CEU conferences I will attend the one in March in Milwaukee. The > last conference I attended was excellent and a real motivation boost being > around solar professionals. > > Ps...small shout out to Rolls batteries (I think you're on here): I could > listen to the lead acid battery charging discussion over and over. Loved > that demo of expert knowledge. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Monday, February 2, 2026 7:12:50 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses > > Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have > many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick > courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. > > Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online > courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course > catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. > > Jason Szumlanski > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at solshineenergy.com Mon Feb 2 11:41:39 2026 From: rick at solshineenergy.com (Rick Brown) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2026 11:41:39 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, A number of manufacturers offer webinars that qualify for NABCEP credits. rick brown SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC Electrical & Solar Contracting Services www.SolShineEnergy.com Roanoke, VA Office: 540.235.3095 Mobile: 540.808.9502 VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE -- This email is intended only for the person(s) named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is confidential, privileged and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender of the error and delete the message. Thank you. > On Feb 2, 2026, at 11:25 AM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Having been in the renewable energy business for decades I am still learning new things all the time. I am also as cheap as the next guy and hate spending money. That being said, in my opinion you should embrace getting your CE credits in the manner for which it is intended and seek training in subjects you are interested in knowing more about there by increasing your knowledge, improving your skills, and staying current as technology evolves. Yes it is an investment, but done properly money well spent. > Pieter Huebner > Project Manager > Off Grid Enterprises > (405)202-5359 > From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, February 2, 2026 7:17 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Howard Scot Arey > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses > > Solar Energy International. Not free but the content I saw last time was very good. > > You're not alone on missing CEUs. After not going to last two or three NABCEP CEU conferences I will attend the one in March in Milwaukee. The last conference I attended was excellent and a real motivation boost being around solar professionals. > > Ps...small shout out to Rolls batteries (I think you're on here): I could listen to the lead acid battery charging discussion over and over. Loved that demo of expert knowledge. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, February 2, 2026 7:12:50 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jason Szumlanski > Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses > > Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. > > Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. > > Jason Szumlanski > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Feb 4 18:27:38 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2026 18:27:38 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup Message-ID: Hi all, When backing up a 400A service with multiple paralleled all-in-one inverters by combining the AC inputs and outputs, the individual inverter transfer switches must operate in a synchronized manner. Come to think of it, the same thing applies to backing up 200A service with paralleled inverters. Are these tested for this function? – I assume so. I'm really asking because Sol-Ark seems to be the only brand that specifically addresses 400A service in documentation, although not very clearly in the manual itself. Their training and literature support passing through additive grid pass-through with multiple inverters, which implies that they are additive in their ability to transfer power. See attached examples. I have not found anything from EG4 (for the 18kPV) or the Midnite AIO that specifically addresses this. In other words, how can we assume that paralleled inverters will be additive in terms of their ability to transfer high levels of current that exceed the rating of a single unit? Is that even addressed in listings? The documentation is quite poor from all manufacturers (no surprise there!) I do have a couple of grid-interactive Midnite AIO systems with four paralleled AIOs backing up 400A services, and so far, so good. My engineer signed off on that. Jason Szumlanski * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 1171.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 162531 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 1172.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 188459 bytes Desc: not available URL: From blake at sunlightandpower.com Wed Feb 4 18:41:07 2026 From: blake at sunlightandpower.com (Blake Gleason) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2026 15:41:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I assume it works only because the inverters are sync'd in a leader/follower(s) coordinated relationship. But I've certainly had problems getting the full (additive) power out of multiple Sol-Arks (for example). Blake On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 3:31 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > When backing up a 400A service with multiple paralleled all-in-one > inverters by combining the AC inputs and outputs, the individual inverter > transfer switches must operate in a synchronized manner. Come to think of > it, the same thing applies to backing up 200A service with paralleled > inverters. Are these tested for this function? – I assume so. > > I'm really asking because Sol-Ark seems to be the only brand that > specifically addresses 400A service in documentation, although not very > clearly in the manual itself. Their training and literature support passing > through additive grid pass-through with multiple inverters, which implies > that they are additive in their ability to transfer power. See attached > examples. > > I have not found anything from EG4 (for the 18kPV) or the Midnite AIO that > specifically addresses this. > > In other words, how can we assume that paralleled inverters will be > additive in terms of their ability to transfer high levels of current that > exceed the rating of a single unit? Is that even addressed in listings? The > documentation is quite poor from all manufacturers (no surprise there!) > > I do have a couple of grid-interactive Midnite AIO systems with four > paralleled AIOs backing up 400A services, and so far, so good. My engineer > signed off on that. > > > Jason Szumlanski > > > * * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence O: 510-845-2997 x128 C: 510-867-5878 [image: sunlightandpower.com] 1035 Folger Ave. Berkeley, CA 94710 www.sunlightandpower.com License #326203 [image: https://www.amicussolar.com/] [image: https://calssa.org/] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 19:33:16 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2026 19:33:16 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I only have experience with paralleling multiple Sol-Ark inverters in larger service size applications, but 320A all the way up to 800A has worked well for me. The key is to make sure that all AC downstream loads are accumulated, and separately, DC battery bussing is combined. Whole-site CTs are crucial as well. AccuEnergy makes Sol-Ark compatible CTs that go all the way up to 1200A I believe. Trying to run distinctly separate systems on a single, large service has caused problems. I’m not aware of any MID “Gateway” type solution that has overcome the 320A conundrum. On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 6:42 PM Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I assume it works only because the inverters are sync'd in a > leader/follower(s) coordinated relationship. > > But I've certainly had problems getting the full (additive) power out of > multiple Sol-Arks (for example). > > Blake > > On Wed, Feb 4, 2026 at 3:31 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> When backing up a 400A service with multiple paralleled all-in-one >> inverters by combining the AC inputs and outputs, the individual inverter >> transfer switches must operate in a synchronized manner. Come to think of >> it, the same thing applies to backing up 200A service with paralleled >> inverters. Are these tested for this function? – I assume so. >> >> I'm really asking because Sol-Ark seems to be the only brand that >> specifically addresses 400A service in documentation, although not very >> clearly in the manual itself. Their training and literature support passing >> through additive grid pass-through with multiple inverters, which implies >> that they are additive in their ability to transfer power. See attached >> examples. >> >> I have not found anything from EG4 (for the 18kPV) or the Midnite AIO >> that specifically addresses this. >> >> In other words, how can we assume that paralleled inverters will be >> additive in terms of their ability to transfer high levels of current that >> exceed the rating of a single unit? Is that even addressed in listings? The >> documentation is quite poor from all manufacturers (no surprise there!) >> >> I do have a couple of grid-interactive Midnite AIO systems with four >> paralleled AIOs backing up 400A services, and so far, so good. My engineer >> signed off on that. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> >> * * >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner > Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence > O: 510-845-2997 x128 > C: 510-867-5878 > [image: sunlightandpower.com] > > > > 1035 Folger Ave. > > Berkeley, CA 94710 > > www.sunlightandpower.com > License #326203 > > [image: > https://www.amicussolar.com/] [image: > https://calssa.org/] > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 19:27:26 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2026 17:27:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76179ABB-E6B1-4038-95E9-34C9EF3CD8E7@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 08:48:35 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2026 06:48:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup In-Reply-To: <76179ABB-E6B1-4038-95E9-34C9EF3CD8E7@gmail.com> References: <76179ABB-E6B1-4038-95E9-34C9EF3CD8E7@gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Feb 5 18:22:45 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2026 18:22:45 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup In-Reply-To: References: <76179ABB-E6B1-4038-95E9-34C9EF3CD8E7@gmail.com> Message-ID: I had a thought. What about just backing up one of the two 200A panels with an off-the-shelf residential MID, and install an automatic transfer switch on the other 200A panel with the primary source being the grid, and auxiliary source being the inverter output, possibly through a feeder from the first 200A panel. This would allow backup of all loads on a single 200A MID. I would comply with 710.15(A) (NEC 2020) without any required load management. Better yet, make the auxiliary source for the second 200A panel a feeder from a smart load breaker in the MID for load management purposes. The EG4 GridBOSS can send a 125A feeder to the other panel. That would be more than sufficient for practical purposes in a grid outage. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 5, 2026, 8:48 AM Jay wrote: > I reread your question. > > I think the only way to be sure the internal transfer switches in the > inverters all switch at the same time on a big high load ( exceeding > potentially the max current rating of a single relay) multi stack inverter > system is to use external transfer switch’s. > > The system I installed is never going to exceed 200 amps, probably never > exceed 80 amps. 2 inverters can more than handle the load. The 3rd was > installed as built in redundancy to make it easier in case one fails. As > the system won’t run on 1. So I didn’t have to worry about exceeding relay > capacity. > > I think this is one of the potential problems with paralleled systems vs > larger single 120/240 inverter’s which we don’t really have here in the US. > > > > On Feb 4, 2026, at 7:05 PM, Jay wrote: > >  > I have a 3 stack eg4 18k and while watching the inverters online they are > totally balanced. > > Jay > > On Feb 4, 2026, at 4:29 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Hi all, > > When backing up a 400A service with multiple paralleled all-in-one > inverters by combining the AC inputs and outputs, the individual inverter > transfer switches must operate in a synchronized manner. Come to think of > it, the same thing applies to backing up 200A service with paralleled > inverters. Are these tested for this function? – I assume so. > > I'm really asking because Sol-Ark seems to be the only brand that > specifically addresses 400A service in documentation, although not very > clearly in the manual itself. Their training and literature support passing > through additive grid pass-through with multiple inverters, which implies > that they are additive in their ability to transfer power. See attached > examples. > > I have not found anything from EG4 (for the 18kPV) or the Midnite AIO that > specifically addresses this. > > In other words, how can we assume that paralleled inverters will be > additive in terms of their ability to transfer high levels of current that > exceed the rating of a single unit? Is that even addressed in listings? The > documentation is quite poor from all manufacturers (no surprise there!) > > I do have a couple of grid-interactive Midnite AIO systems with four > paralleled AIOs backing up 400A services, and so far, so good. My engineer > signed off on that. > > > Jason Szumlanski > > > * * > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 20:39:27 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2026 20:39:27 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup In-Reply-To: References: <76179ABB-E6B1-4038-95E9-34C9EF3CD8E7@gmail.com> Message-ID: I like the ingenuity, Jason. I would assume you would still need to CT the other half of that 320A service for whole site monitoring requirements. If the total service is pulling more than 160A I am wondering if the PCS would try to limit battery charge/discharge to prevent overload on what the EMS is thinking is a 200A bus bar. To be fair, that would be quite a load, even on a 320A service… On Thu, Feb 5, 2026 at 6:25 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I had a thought. What about just backing up one of the two 200A panels > with an off-the-shelf residential MID, and install an automatic transfer > switch on the other 200A panel with the primary source being the grid, and > auxiliary source being the inverter output, possibly through a feeder from > the first 200A panel. > > This would allow backup of all loads on a single 200A MID. I would comply > with 710.15(A) (NEC 2020) without any required load management. > > Better yet, make the auxiliary source for the second 200A panel a feeder > from a smart load breaker in the MID for load management purposes. The EG4 > GridBOSS can send a 125A feeder to the other panel. That would be more than > sufficient for practical purposes in a grid outage. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2026, 8:48 AM Jay wrote: > >> I reread your question. >> >> I think the only way to be sure the internal transfer switches in the >> inverters all switch at the same time on a big high load ( exceeding >> potentially the max current rating of a single relay) multi stack inverter >> system is to use external transfer switch’s. >> >> The system I installed is never going to exceed 200 amps, probably never >> exceed 80 amps. 2 inverters can more than handle the load. The 3rd was >> installed as built in redundancy to make it easier in case one fails. As >> the system won’t run on 1. So I didn’t have to worry about exceeding relay >> capacity. >> >> I think this is one of the potential problems with paralleled systems vs >> larger single 120/240 inverter’s which we don’t really have here in the US. >> >> >> >> On Feb 4, 2026, at 7:05 PM, Jay wrote: >> >>  >> I have a 3 stack eg4 18k and while watching the inverters online they are >> totally balanced. >> >> Jay >> >> On Feb 4, 2026, at 4:29 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> Hi all, >> >> When backing up a 400A service with multiple paralleled all-in-one >> inverters by combining the AC inputs and outputs, the individual inverter >> transfer switches must operate in a synchronized manner. Come to think of >> it, the same thing applies to backing up 200A service with paralleled >> inverters. Are these tested for this function? – I assume so. >> >> I'm really asking because Sol-Ark seems to be the only brand that >> specifically addresses 400A service in documentation, although not very >> clearly in the manual itself. Their training and literature support passing >> through additive grid pass-through with multiple inverters, which implies >> that they are additive in their ability to transfer power. See attached >> examples. >> >> I have not found anything from EG4 (for the 18kPV) or the Midnite AIO >> that specifically addresses this. >> >> In other words, how can we assume that paralleled inverters will be >> additive in terms of their ability to transfer high levels of current that >> exceed the rating of a single unit? Is that even addressed in listings? The >> documentation is quite poor from all manufacturers (no surprise there!) >> >> I do have a couple of grid-interactive Midnite AIO systems with four >> paralleled AIOs backing up 400A services, and so far, so good. My engineer >> signed off on that. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> >> * * >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Feb 6 07:18:04 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2026 07:18:04 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 400A (320A) service backup In-Reply-To: References: <76179ABB-E6B1-4038-95E9-34C9EF3CD8E7@gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't think I would measure the second 200A panel. The Gridboss does not require CTs as it has internal measurements. While on-grid it would just think it's a 200A system. I don't need zero export or PCS in this scenario for any compliance reasons. When the grid fails, this would be a 200A bus limited system since one 200A panel would be feeding other one. I wouldn't need PCS off-grid, either, since the stacked inverters and GridBOSS aren't capable of delivering that much current anyway. One concern that I need to think through is neutral wiring. On-grid I would have the 200A grid neutral, but in standalone mode a 125A neutral would be coming from the other 200A load center. This creates a parallel neutral situation since the neutral isn't switched. I'm not sure yet what the implications are of that. I'm going to draw it up to wrap my head around it. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 5, 2026, 8:39 PM Chris Sparadeo wrote: > I like the ingenuity, Jason. I would assume you would still need to CT the > other half of that 320A service for whole site monitoring requirements. If > the total service is pulling more than 160A I am wondering if the PCS would > try to limit battery charge/discharge to prevent overload on what the EMS > is thinking is a 200A bus bar. To be fair, that would be quite a load, even > on a 320A service… > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2026 at 6:25 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I had a thought. What about just backing up one of the two 200A panels >> with an off-the-shelf residential MID, and install an automatic transfer >> switch on the other 200A panel with the primary source being the grid, and >> auxiliary source being the inverter output, possibly through a feeder from >> the first 200A panel. >> >> This would allow backup of all loads on a single 200A MID. I would comply >> with 710.15(A) (NEC 2020) without any required load management. >> >> Better yet, make the auxiliary source for the second 200A panel a feeder >> from a smart load breaker in the MID for load management purposes. The EG4 >> GridBOSS can send a 125A feeder to the other panel. That would be more than >> sufficient for practical purposes in a grid outage. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> On Thu, Feb 5, 2026, 8:48 AM Jay wrote: >> >>> I reread your question. >>> >>> I think the only way to be sure the internal transfer switches in the >>> inverters all switch at the same time on a big high load ( exceeding >>> potentially the max current rating of a single relay) multi stack inverter >>> system is to use external transfer switch’s. >>> >>> The system I installed is never going to exceed 200 amps, probably never >>> exceed 80 amps. 2 inverters can more than handle the load. The 3rd was >>> installed as built in redundancy to make it easier in case one fails. As >>> the system won’t run on 1. So I didn’t have to worry about exceeding relay >>> capacity. >>> >>> I think this is one of the potential problems with paralleled systems vs >>> larger single 120/240 inverter’s which we don’t really have here in the US. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 4, 2026, at 7:05 PM, Jay wrote: >>> >>>  >>> I have a 3 stack eg4 18k and while watching the inverters online they >>> are totally balanced. >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> On Feb 4, 2026, at 4:29 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> Hi all, >>> >>> When backing up a 400A service with multiple paralleled all-in-one >>> inverters by combining the AC inputs and outputs, the individual inverter >>> transfer switches must operate in a synchronized manner. Come to think of >>> it, the same thing applies to backing up 200A service with paralleled >>> inverters. Are these tested for this function? – I assume so. >>> >>> I'm really asking because Sol-Ark seems to be the only brand that >>> specifically addresses 400A service in documentation, although not very >>> clearly in the manual itself. Their training and literature support passing >>> through additive grid pass-through with multiple inverters, which implies >>> that they are additive in their ability to transfer power. See attached >>> examples. >>> >>> I have not found anything from EG4 (for the 18kPV) or the Midnite AIO >>> that specifically addresses this. >>> >>> In other words, how can we assume that paralleled inverters will be >>> additive in terms of their ability to transfer high levels of current that >>> exceed the rating of a single unit? Is that even addressed in listings? The >>> documentation is quite poor from all manufacturers (no surprise there!) >>> >>> I do have a couple of grid-interactive Midnite AIO systems with four >>> paralleled AIOs backing up 400A services, and so far, so good. My engineer >>> signed off on that. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> >>> >>> * * >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Feb 6 14:19:12 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2026 14:19:12 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I successfully renewed my NABCEP PVIP certification, mostly with equipment manufacturer-supplied certificates I had received over the last 3 years. To make up the shortfall, I took three free, decent courses from Heatspring and the $89 NEC 2023 course from MikeHolt.com. The Sales Ethics course from HeatSpring is a must-watch for all solar sales reps. I found the Mike Holt 8-hour course very good. The videos of panel discussions were worth watching, and helped easily fulfill the CEU requirement. I will mention that there are lots of quizzes in this course, so you have to be actively engaged, but the answers are mostly common sense (for us). Hope to see you in Milwaukee this year, where I hope to knock out most of my 2029 CEUs! Thanks, all, for your recommendations. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 8:10 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have > many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick > courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. > > Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online > courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course > catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. > > Jason Szumlanski > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesrudolph99 at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 16:26:03 2026 From: jamesrudolph99 at gmail.com (James Rudolph) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2026 11:26:03 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP PVIP CEU Courses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A lot of free and informative classes ( +bonus -many come for certs for troubleshooting and installing new products) - Enphase Universisty - Generac - FranklinWH - Sol-Ark - HeatSpring James B. Rudolph Independent Energy C-39784 ES #10816 NABCEP Certified PV Installer since 2009 #091209-155 C. 808.313.9701 On Fri, Feb 6, 2026 at 9:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I successfully renewed my NABCEP PVIP certification, mostly with equipment > manufacturer-supplied certificates I had received over the last 3 years. To > make up the shortfall, I took three free, decent courses from Heatspring > and the $89 NEC 2023 course from MikeHolt.com. > > The Sales Ethics course from HeatSpring is a must-watch for all solar > sales reps. > > I found the Mike Holt 8-hour course very good. The videos of panel > discussions were worth watching, and helped easily fulfill the CEU > requirement. I will mention that there are lots of quizzes in this course, > so you have to be actively engaged, but the answers are mostly common sense > (for us). > > Hope to see you in Milwaukee this year, where I hope to knock out most of > my 2029 CEUs! > > Thanks, all, for your recommendations. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2026 at 8:10 AM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> Things got busy at the end of 2025, and I let my PVIP lapse. While I have >> many of the CEU covered over the last three years, I need to get some quick >> courses completed to reinstate my certificate. I'm short about 8 hours. >> >> Does anyone know where to find some on-demand free or low-cost online >> courses to get this done quickly and painlessly? I know there is a course >> catalog, but it's a bit convoluted. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 20:06:43 2026 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2026 18:06:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3rd party appraisal for Sonnen system donated to community college? Message-ID: Esteemed Wrenches — Please contact me off list if you are willing and able to provide such a document as described here. I run the NABCEP PV Associate training program at Pueblo Community College in Colorado, funded by a State renewable energy workforce development grant. A colleague way up in NOCO where I live is upgrading the ESS at one of his installations away from the existing Sonnen. His client wants to donate it to the college. The original Sonnen ESS equipment cost, no install labor included, was right at about $24k. The IRS paperwork 8283 clearly states that the Appraiser cannot be me or anyone from the college, and can’t be anyone from the PV installation company either. PCC and myself would be eternally grateful if someone with Sonnen experience could help and provide an appraisal. The client wants a tax deduction of course, but my students and myself could have endless fun with a vintage Sonnen, explore different battery charge/discharge curves, try to dark start, etc. TIA, please contact off list. I have lots of photos, receipts etc. Dan Fink Renewable Energy Program Coordinator, Pueblo Community College IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate danbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathanjstumpff at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 10:59:41 2026 From: nathanjstumpff at gmail.com (Nathan J. Stumpff) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 07:59:41 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid installer Central TX Message-ID: Wrenches, If anyone on this list either services or has a good personal recommendation for an off-grid installer in Central TX (near Brownwood) please contact me off-list. Thanks, -Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Tue Feb 10 15:06:44 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:06:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction Message-ID: Hi All, I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of which are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown devices on all the modules. Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And on a perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All three strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that there are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely unlikely. So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to spec. 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the modules. I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! Thanks for the consideration! Cheers, Dave -- Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 270-0370 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Tue Feb 10 17:31:02 2026 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 22:31:02 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Although VOC measurements using the ambient air temperature in the area are interesting. Perhaps a more thorough diagnosis is in order. As a first step I recommend getting array ISC, VOC, MODULE temperature, and solar irradiance. There is equipment available to make these tests easy, or if you are on a budget, it can be done with multiple pieces of less expensive equipment. Based on the findings, you can take the next step and use a curve tracer. A visual inspection and perhaps thermal imaging and the use of UV lights can also be used to look for damaged, dirty or defective modules. Pieter Huebner Project Manager Off Grid Enterprises ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2026 2:06 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Dave Tedeyan Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction Hi All, I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of which are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown devices on all the modules. Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And on a perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All three strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that there are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely unlikely. So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to spec. 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the modules. I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! Thanks for the consideration! Cheers, Dave -- [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zoZ4JdaR79CFcLmy74s-VRVaVovMEuRmw5pzk3XBT09h8ZNlFbMgJ4yHW2Uxf91_2codJGB4DALADN] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 270-0370 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From autonomousenergies at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 17:42:59 2026 From: autonomousenergies at gmail.com (AE Solar) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 17:42:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We had an install with the Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ 340 where there was a bad diode in a panel or two, and production was reduced by approximately 25% +/- on each panel. Same with some Q.PEAK DUO BLK-L G5.2 400 watt panels and Q.PEAK DUO BLK-L G5.3 400 watt panels. All those installs were with Enphase or SolarEdge so it was pretty easy to diagnose remotely. I believe in all those cases the failure happened within the first year of being installed. I think those installs were all around 2020 or 2021 maybe, and we didn't have any issues with QCells before or after that time period. Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 On Tue, Feb 10, 2026 at 4:16 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it > is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites > produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far > off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go > to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of which > are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown > devices on all the modules. > > Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is > really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect > summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day > (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And on a > perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All three > strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that there > are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to > forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely > unlikely. > > So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: > 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to > spec. > 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. > > Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything > appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like > partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the modules. > I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good > monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! > > Thanks for the consideration! > Cheers, > Dave > -- > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 270-0370 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 16:39:19 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:39:19 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51EEBA61-6513-4200-91DC-1058E73A1969@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Tue Feb 10 16:52:48 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:52:48 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From windsine at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 19:37:52 2026 From: windsine at gmail.com (Roy Rakobitsch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 18:37:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: <51EEBA61-6513-4200-91DC-1058E73A1969@gmail.com> References: <51EEBA61-6513-4200-91DC-1058E73A1969@gmail.com> Message-ID: It would be fairly easy to spot bypass diode issues or cell current imbalance issues with a hand-held IR imager on a decently sunny day. Maybe time to go on the roof and take a peek? Roy Rakobitsch Windsine LLC 631-514-4166 On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 18:25 Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Looking at it from performance ie watts, how far off does it appear to be? > > Jay > > > > On Feb 10, 2026, at 2:07 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Hi All, > > I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it > is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites > produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far > off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go > to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of which > are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown > devices on all the modules. > > Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is > really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect > summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day > (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And on a > perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All three > strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that there > are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to > forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely > unlikely. > > So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: > 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to > spec. > 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. > > Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything > appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like > partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the modules. > I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good > monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! > > Thanks for the consideration! > Cheers, > Dave > -- > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 270-0370 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From berkeleysolar at outlook.com Wed Feb 11 07:37:39 2026 From: berkeleysolar at outlook.com (Mark Frye) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 12:37:39 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator Message-ID: Folks, If I have a larger AC powered battery charge, say 3kW and I have a battery bank that may want to pull some current, want will happen if I try to run the charger with a small, say 1.2 kW generator? Thanks, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 08:24:45 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 05:24:45 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The generator will bog down under load and shut off unless there is a way to program to charge at a lower rate. On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:01 AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Folks, > > > > If I have a larger AC powered battery charge, say 3kW and I have a battery > bank that may want to pull some current, want will happen if I try to run > the charger with a small, say 1.2 kW generator? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 08:34:35 2026 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 06:34:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mark, It will stall the generator and/or it will shutdown on overload and or trip a breaker. However, many battery chargers have some adjustability so you may be able to adjust it down to the sweet spot. The way I like to do it is start with the charger very low, then slowly adjust the load up. At some point, the generator will sound like its working hard but not overloaded. Just know that you may need to adjust this for various operating conditions (temperature is the big one) or if you are moving it around, elevation. Be prepared to be disappointed by the generators performance, battery chargers can be difficult loads for low quality generators. Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 6:01 AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Folks, > > > > If I have a larger AC powered battery charge, say 3kW and I have a battery > bank that may want to pull some current, want will happen if I try to run > the charger with a small, say 1.2 kW generator? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 09:15:11 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 07:15:11 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47EE1301-5764-4EB1-8CCF-F0867E6F74E4@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Feb 11 09:26:13 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 09:26:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: References: <51EEBA61-6513-4200-91DC-1058E73A1969@gmail.com> Message-ID: I must admit, this is a little embarrassing... this is what I get for trying to work with a head cold. I didn't remember that there was a change order on this one, and the original contract was for a larger system than what eventually got installed. I was looking at the producion estimate from the original larger system, which was around 17MWh/year. The actual production estimate is closer to 14.3MWh, and the system has averaged 13.5MWh over the past 5 years. So, 94% is not nearly as bad as I originally thought, although it is still not good either. The voltages that I am seeing on the Sunny Portal monitoring are still lower than I would expect. I think it is still worth checking out with an IR scan once the snow goes away and the sun comes back here in upstate NY. The recommendations for doing a curve trace would be the best troubleshooting step, although I have not yet invested in one of those. All this still leads me to believe that these Qcell modules may be not quite be performing to spec, but they are not as ridiculously far off as I feared. Cheers, Dave On Tue, Feb 10, 2026 at 8:50 PM Roy Rakobitsch via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > It would be fairly easy to spot bypass diode issues or cell current > imbalance issues with a hand-held IR imager on a decently sunny day. Maybe > time to go on the roof and take a peek? > > > Roy Rakobitsch > > Windsine LLC > 631-514-4166 > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 18:25 Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Looking at it from performance ie watts, how far off does it appear to be? >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2026, at 2:07 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> Hi All, >> >> I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it >> is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites >> produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far >> off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go >> to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of which >> are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown >> devices on all the modules. >> >> Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is >> really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect >> summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day >> (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And on a >> perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All three >> strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that there >> are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to >> forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely >> unlikely. >> >> So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: >> 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to >> spec. >> 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. >> >> Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything >> appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like >> partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the modules. >> I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good >> monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! >> >> Thanks for the consideration! >> Cheers, >> Dave >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 270-0370 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Feb 11 09:26:45 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 06:26:45 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Optics Data sunset In-Reply-To: References: <11b98eeb0bc519116ce236146ba9719f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: FYI William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Outback Power Support Date: Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 5:17 AM Subject: Re: Optics Data sunset To: william at millersolar.com Hi William, I can understand your point. This is not something in support hands and decision is taken in the upper level. Just to let you know that we are pushing back a month longer for data retrieval. Due to limitations with the database architecture, the request may timeout, so if you don't receive it within about an hour, try again, because the request likely timed out. Timeouts are based on request volume, so it may take several attempts. We have identified the issue and are working to resolve it as soon as possible. Meanwhile, try requesting data in shorter time frames. Regards, Omar *Technical Support* *O:* 360-618-4363 Tech Support LIVE Chat Link avail: 6am-4pm PST *Outback Power, LLC* 400 Maple St Commerce, TX 75428 ------------------------------ *From:* William Miller *Sent:* 27 January 2026 02:30 *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Outback Power Support *Subject:* Optics Data sunset You don't often get email from william at millersolar.com. *Learn why this is important * Friends: I sat down today to download historic data from all of my OpticsRE connected clients. This is pursuant to the notification from Outback that, as of 2/1/26, the data beyond 6 months will be purged. I have 17 systems connected and many of them for more than 5 years old. I rely on that data for occasional troubleshooting and analysis. In the process I noticed a few odd things: 1. All of the data over 3 years old has already been purged. The earliest record is 1/26/2023. 2. You can only request a report for a duration of 1 year, so with this many legacy systems I needed to request a lot of reports, (42, given the already purged data). This is time consuming and frustrating. Storage is not expensive and these files are not that large so the policy change seems to me to be overly parsimonious on the part of Outback. 3. I have found the graphic interface on Optics to be very handy. I can look at a month view and see the daily production and consumption values. Granted I have to type them into a spreadsheet. With the 15 minute increments if I want to analyze the average daily solar production for last January, for example, I am going to have to do some fancy spreadsheet maneuvers to aggregate these 15 minute intervals. 4. The reports arrive via e-mail. So far I have requested 11 reports but after I received just 4 of them they stopped arriving in my email. It has been over an hour since I received the last report. 5. I am noticing a lot of gaps on the graphs. 6. I am noticing the colors on the voltage line graphs is not consistent from site to site. Many of them are no longer yellow, green and red but all yellow (orange-ish yellow). It seems to correlate with the setting you have in Devices for battery type. The deadline to archive this data is fast approaching and I worry I just won’t be able to access it. Have any of you been through this process yet, and if so, what are your experiences? Thanks in advance, William William Miller Miller Solar *www.millersolar.com * CA License C-10 77398 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Wed Feb 11 12:09:49 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 12:09:49 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <03a795ff-fcc5-4e86-b410-dc32bab2a853@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Feb 11 17:50:10 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 22:50:10 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: <03a795ff-fcc5-4e86-b410-dc32bab2a853@email.android.com> References: <03a795ff-fcc5-4e86-b410-dc32bab2a853@email.android.com> <03a795ff-fcc5-4e86-b410-dc32bab2a853@email.android.com> Message-ID: We have had an issue with Mission Solar 410 modules with bad diodes. Fortunately, I think all of them were on Enphase microinverters, so they are easy to spot. That's definitely a benefit of micros. I wonder how many strings are out there with a bad panel that is undetected. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 2:05 PM Glenn via RE-wrenches wrote: > We have seen a lot of Qcells with one diode failing and dropping module > production by 1/3. > I have a Solmetric curve tracer I am looking to part with... > > > -Glenn > > > On Feb 11, 2026 09:26, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrenches.org [re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org]> wrote: > > > I must admit, this is a little embarrassing... this is what I get for trying > > to work with a head cold. I didn't remember that there was a change order on > > this one, and the original contract was for a larger system than what > > eventually got installed. I was looking at the producion estimate from the > > original larger system, which was around 17MWh/year. The actual production > > estimate is closer to 14.3MWh, and the system has averaged 13.5MWh over the > > past 5 years. So, 94% is not nearly as bad as I originally thought, although > > it is still not good either.  > > > > > > The voltages that I am seeing on the Sunny Portal monitoring are still lower > > than I would expect. I think it is still worth checking out with an IR scan > > once the snow goes away and the sun comes back here in upstate NY. The > > recommendations for doing a curve trace would be the best troubleshooting > > step, although I have not yet invested in one of those. All this still leads > > me to believe that these Qcell modules may be not quite be performing to > > spec, but they are not as ridiculously far off as I feared.  > > > > > > Cheers, > > Dave > > > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026 at 8:50 PM Roy Rakobitsch via RE-wrenches > > > > wrote: > > > > > It would be fairly easy to spot bypass diode issues or cell current > > > imbalance issues with a hand-held IR imager on a decently sunny day. Maybe > > > time to go on the roof and take a peek? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Roy Rakobitsch > > > > > > > > > Windsine LLC > > > 631-514-4166 > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 18:25 Jay via RE-wrenches > > wrenches.org [re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org]> wrote: > > > > > > > Looking at it from performance ie watts, how far off does it appear to > > > > be? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 2026, at 2:07 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > Hi All,  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding > > > > > it is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our > > > > > sites produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is > > > > > pretty far off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. > > > > > Two strings go to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw > > > > > inverter - both of which are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are > > > > > Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown devices on all the modules. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which > > > > > is really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a > > > > > perfect summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect > > > > > spring day (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of > > > > > around 355V. And on a perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp > > > > > is around 365V.  All three strings are pretty consistent with each > > > > > other, so I don't think that there are specific installation issues > > > > > with any panels, unless we managed to forget to wire in two panels in > > > > > all three strings which is extremely unlikely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: > > > > > 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to > > > > > spec. > > > > > 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues.  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? > > > > > Everything appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not > > > > > things like partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling > > > > > affecting the modules. I don't have another site with the same modules > > > > > that also has good monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the consideration! > > > > > Cheers,  > > > > > Dave > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zoZ4JdaR79CFcLmy74s-VRVaVovMEuRmw5pzk3XBT09h8ZNlFbMgJ4yHW2Uxf91_2codJGB4DALADN?trnonsuspmrk=1] > > > > > > > > > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > > > > > Owner | Sungineer Solar > > > > > p: he | him | his > > > > > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > > > > > w: www.sungineersolar.com [http://www.sungineersolar.com/] > > > > > c: (607) 270-0370 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > > > > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > > > > > the other: > > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > > > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > > > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > > > > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > > > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > > > > the other: > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > > other: > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [http://re-wrenches.org] > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarwrench at asis.com Wed Feb 11 17:58:36 2026 From: solarwrench at asis.com (Kelly Larson) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 14:58:36 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar-thermal Expert Needed Message-ID: <1ece54dc-2907-4e63-aaf7-840ed17d8530@asis.com> Howdy Fellow Wrenches, I have a customer who has solar thermal systems on three apartment type buildings they own in California and they have a lot of trouble with these systems. Do you know an expert / consultant in solar thermal who could help them? Thanks in advance! Kelly ~~~~~~~~~~~ Kelly Larson Reno, NV Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector™ IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV NCSU Lecturer Solar Energy International Instructor SolarKelly.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Wed Feb 11 17:59:32 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 14:59:32 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 94% could just be year to year variability. I know that PVwatts says it can vary a bit -- if you click on the link right under the total kWh per year number, it gives a chart of expected range and such for that location. There are sites that actually measure variability from year to year and publish maps of how each year compared with "average". I can't remember who that is off the top of my head, but maybe someone else will. With climate change, some regions are regularly trending higher than average and others lower than average in PSH, in addition to other weather metrics. Also... on the issue of variability. I have been recording daily PSH for my site for the past three years, and have found that it varies even more than I had expected, especially when you get to month by month. I measured from 77% to 88% of expected for the annual PSH, and months from 17% to 114% of expected. Of particular significance is that my winters are MUCH lower than PVwatts claims they should be. The best I've measured december/January was 71% of expected, and most years it was well under 50%. One particularly foggy december was 17%. I don't know how much of this is that my site is 50 miles away from the nearest airport where the longer term data was measured, plus 1800 feet higher elevation, so different fog and cloud patterns. But I think another issue is that I am including shading in my measurements obviously (sensor is right next to my array, with real world shading from 150 foot tall trees 300 feet away), whereas the default PVwatts includes no shading. In most real sites that don't have a horizon to horizon view, the effect of shading is going to be more than PV watts estimates -- maybe only a few percent, but still an effect. Back to the array. Like someone mentioned, a thermal camera is pretty good at picking out the part of the array that is not contributing, so if you have shorted bypass diodes, you should be able to see the slightly hotter parts of the array that are bypassed. Also a measurement of the temperature of the array can let you calculate what the actual Vmp or Voc should be and compare that to measured. And finally, do the Tigo RSD's give an output when turned off? The APsystems ones give about 1 volt each when turned off, so you can measure and make sure you have the right number of modules in a string. Though, it's not always exactly 1 volt, so on longer strings, not always accurate. But it gives you an idea if there's a dead RSD perhaps, that's passing through current from the others, but not turning on its module. That should also show up on the thermal camera, an entire module that's hotter than the rest of the array. Zeke From: Dave Tedeyan To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I must admit, this is a little embarrassing... this is what I get for trying to work with a head cold. I didn't remember that there was a change order on this one, and the original contract was for a larger system than what eventually got installed. I was looking at the producion estimate from the original larger system, which was around 17MWh/year. The actual production estimate is closer to 14.3MWh, and the system has averaged 13.5MWh over the past 5 years. So, 94% is not nearly as bad as I originally thought, although it is still not good either. The voltages that I am seeing on the Sunny Portal monitoring are still lower than I would expect. I think it is still worth checking out with an IR scan once the snow goes away and the sun comes back here in upstate NY. The recommendations for doing a curve trace would be the best troubleshooting step, although I have not yet invested in one of those. All this still leads me to believe that these Qcell modules may be not quite be performing to spec, but they are not as ridiculously far off as I feared. Cheers, Dave On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 2:03 PM wrote: > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous > lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > (pieter offgridenterprises.org) > 2. Re: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction (AE Solar) > 3. Re: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction (Jay) > 4. Re: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction (Glenn) > 5. Re: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction (Roy Rakobitsch) > 6. Big Charger, Small Generator (Mark Frye) > 7. Re: Big Charger, Small Generator (Tyrone Houck) > 8. Re: Big Charger, Small Generator (Mac Lewis) > 9. Re: Big Charger, Small Generator (Jay) > 10. Re: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction (Dave Tedeyan) > 11. Fwd: Optics Data sunset (William Miller) > 12. Re: Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction (Glenn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 22:31:02 +0000 > From: pieter offgridenterprises.org > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > Message-ID: > < > DS0PR11MB80842FF13EB7CD678E5CFC85A062A at DS0PR11MB8084.namprd11.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Although VOC measurements using the ambient air temperature in the area > are interesting. Perhaps a more thorough diagnosis is in order. As a first > step I recommend getting array ISC, VOC, MODULE temperature, and solar > irradiance. There is equipment available to make these tests easy, or if > you are on a budget, it can be done with multiple pieces of less expensive > equipment. Based on the findings, you can take the next step and use a > curve tracer. A visual inspection and perhaps thermal imaging and the use > of UV lights can also be used to look for damaged, dirty or defective > modules. > Pieter Huebner > Project Manager > Off Grid Enterprises > ________________________________ > From: RE-wrenches on behalf > of Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2026 2:06 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Dave Tedeyan > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > > Hi All, > > I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it > is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites > produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far > off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go > to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of which > are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown > devices on all the modules. > > Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is > really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect > summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day > (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And on a > perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All three > strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that there > are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to > forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely > unlikely. > > So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: > 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to > spec. > 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. > > Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything > appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like > partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the modules. > I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good > monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! > > Thanks for the consideration! > Cheers, > Dave > -- > > [ > https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zoZ4JdaR79CFcLmy74s-VRVaVovMEuRmw5pzk3XBT09h8ZNlFbMgJ4yHW2Uxf91_2codJGB4DALADN > ] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 270-0370 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260210/ef803356/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 17:42:59 -0500 > From: AE Solar > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > Message-ID: > j_vF3uOZuUGnPr01DTm5+MtQw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > We had an install with the Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ 340 where there was a bad > diode in a panel or two, and production was reduced by approximately 25% > +/- on > each panel. Same with some Q.PEAK DUO BLK-L G5.2 400 watt panels and Q.PEAK > DUO BLK-L G5.3 400 watt panels. All those installs were with Enphase or > SolarEdge so it was pretty easy to diagnose remotely. I believe in all > those cases the failure happened within the first year of being installed. > I think those installs were all around 2020 or 2021 maybe, and we didn't > have any issues with QCells before or after that time period. > > Adam Katzman (he/him) > Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator > www.AutonomousEnergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > > > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026 at 4:16?PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it > > is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites > > produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far > > off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go > > to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of > which > > are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown > > devices on all the modules. > > > > Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is > > really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect > > summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day > > (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And > on a > > perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All > three > > strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that > there > > are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to > > forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely > > unlikely. > > > > So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: > > 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to > > spec. > > 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. > > > > Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything > > appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like > > partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the > modules. > > I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good > > monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! > > > > Thanks for the consideration! > > Cheers, > > Dave > > -- > > > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > > Owner | Sungineer Solar > > p: he | him | his > > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > > w: www.sungineersolar.com > > c: (607) 270-0370 > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260210/2f7e29ee/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:39:19 -0700 > From: Jay > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > Message-ID: <51EEBA61-6513-4200-91DC-1058E73A1969 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260210/131b37e8/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:52:48 -0500 > From: Glenn > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260210/e607152e/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2026 18:37:52 -0600 > From: Roy Rakobitsch > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > Message-ID: > WVnYgB7vPOSnuuqYgg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > It would be fairly easy to spot bypass diode issues or cell current > imbalance issues with a hand-held IR imager on a decently sunny day. Maybe > time to go on the roof and take a peek? > > > Roy Rakobitsch > > Windsine LLC > 631-514-4166 > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 18:25 Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > Looking at it from performance ie watts, how far off does it appear to > be? > > > > Jay > > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 2026, at 2:07?PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > ? > > Hi All, > > > > I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it > > is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites > > produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far > > off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go > > to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of > which > > are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown > > devices on all the modules. > > > > Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is > > really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect > > summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day > > (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And > on a > > perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All > three > > strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that > there > > are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to > > forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely > > unlikely. > > > > So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: > > 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to > > spec. > > 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. > > > > Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything > > appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like > > partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the > modules. > > I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good > > monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! > > > > Thanks for the consideration! > > Cheers, > > Dave > > -- > > > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > > Owner | Sungineer Solar > > p: he | him | his > > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > > w: www.sungineersolar.com > > c: (607) 270-0370 > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260210/a4a8d68f/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 12:37:39 +0000 > From: Mark Frye > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator > Message-ID: > < > DS7PR19MB59524FB8E9D6FE488CDD0B5EB163A at DS7PR19MB5952.namprd19.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Folks, > > If I have a larger AC powered battery charge, say 3kW and I have a battery > bank that may want to pull some current, want will happen if I try to run > the charger with a small, say 1.2 kW generator? > > Thanks, > > Mark > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260211/9c7065e1/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 05:24:45 -0800 > From: Tyrone Houck > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator > Message-ID: > < > CAEqH54m-zcwBXv5UFKpcWk08W6XCgH4F0UsMZPLebyVE0DpPsw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > The generator will bog down under load and shut off unless there is a way > to program to charge at a lower rate. > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 5:01?AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > If I have a larger AC powered battery charge, say 3kW and I have a > battery > > bank that may want to pull some current, want will happen if I try to run > > the charger with a small, say 1.2 kW generator? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260211/fbfdf0ab/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 06:34:35 -0700 > From: Mac Lewis > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator > Message-ID: > L3Ou_FYCFaY+o22KFcKR09ag at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Mark, > > It will stall the generator and/or it will shutdown on overload and or trip > a breaker. > > However, many battery chargers have some adjustability so you may be able > to adjust it down to the sweet spot. The way I like to do it is start with > the charger very low, then slowly adjust the load up. At some point, the > generator will sound like its working hard but not overloaded. Just know > that you may need to adjust this for various operating conditions > (temperature is the big one) or if you are moving it around, elevation. > > Be prepared to be disappointed by the generators performance, battery > chargers can be difficult loads for low quality generators. > > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo s? que no s? nada." -S?crates* > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 6:01?AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > If I have a larger AC powered battery charge, say 3kW and I have a > battery > > bank that may want to pull some current, want will happen if I try to run > > the charger with a small, say 1.2 kW generator? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260211/ec71c700/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 07:15:11 -0700 > From: Jay > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Mac Lewis , RE-wrenches > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator > Message-ID: <47EE1301-5764-4EB1-8CCF-F0867E6F74E4 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260211/1c623023/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 09:26:13 -0500 > From: Dave Tedeyan > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > Message-ID: > v7A0PkA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I must admit, this is a little embarrassing... this is what I get for > trying to work with a head cold. I didn't remember that there was a change > order on this one, and the original contract was for a larger system than > what eventually got installed. I was looking at the producion estimate from > the original larger system, which was around 17MWh/year. The actual > production estimate is closer to 14.3MWh, and the system has averaged > 13.5MWh over the past 5 years. So, 94% is not nearly as bad as I originally > thought, although it is still not good either. > > The voltages that I am seeing on the Sunny Portal monitoring are still > lower than I would expect. I think it is still worth checking out with an > IR scan once the snow goes away and the sun comes back here in upstate NY. > The recommendations for doing a curve trace would be the best > troubleshooting step, although I have not yet invested in one of those. All > this still leads me to believe that these Qcell modules may be not quite be > performing to spec, but they are not as ridiculously far off as I feared. > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026 at 8:50?PM Roy Rakobitsch via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > It would be fairly easy to spot bypass diode issues or cell current > > imbalance issues with a hand-held IR imager on a decently sunny day. > Maybe > > time to go on the roof and take a peek? > > > > > > Roy Rakobitsch > > > > Windsine LLC > > 631-514-4166 > > > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 18:25 Jay via RE-wrenches < > > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > >> Looking at it from performance ie watts, how far off does it appear to > be? > >> > >> Jay > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 10, 2026, at 2:07?PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> > >> ? > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding > it > >> is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites > >> produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far > >> off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings > go > >> to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of > which > >> are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown > >> devices on all the modules. > >> > >> Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is > >> really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect > >> summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day > >> (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And > on a > >> perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All > three > >> strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that > there > >> are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to > >> forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely > >> unlikely. > >> > >> So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: > >> 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to > >> spec. > >> 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. > >> > >> Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything > >> appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like > >> partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the > modules. > >> I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good > >> monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! > >> > >> Thanks for the consideration! > >> Cheers, > >> Dave > >> -- > >> > >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > >> Owner | Sungineer Solar > >> p: he | him | his > >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > >> w: www.sungineersolar.com > >> c: (607) 270-0370 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >> > >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Change listserver email address & settings: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the > >> other: > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out or update participant bios: > >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >> > >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Change listserver email address & settings: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the > >> other: > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out or update participant bios: > >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260211/ea272326/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 06:26:45 -0800 > From: William Miller > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Optics Data sunset > Message-ID: > < > CAAgpqUM+n_MWRMc4Zd5roF6p3zD1oMK3SK7Lf7Qg7WHO70OosA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > FYI > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Outback Power Support > Date: Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 5:17?AM > Subject: Re: Optics Data sunset > To: william at millersolar.com > > > Hi William, > > I can understand your point. This is not something in support hands and > decision is taken in the upper level. Just to let you know that we are > pushing back a month longer for data retrieval. Due to limitations with the > database architecture, the request may timeout, so if you don't receive it > within about an hour, try again, because the request likely timed out. > Timeouts are based on request volume, so it may take several attempts. We > have identified the issue and are working to resolve it as soon as > possible. Meanwhile, try requesting data in shorter time frames. > > Regards, > Omar > *Technical Support* > *O:* 360-618-4363 > Tech Support LIVE Chat Link > < > https://www.google.com/maps/search/400+Maple+St+%0D%0A+%0D%0ACommerce,+TX+75428?entry=gmail&source=g > > > avail: 6am-4pm PST > *Outback Power, LLC* > 400 Maple St > < > https://www.google.com/maps/search/400+Maple+St+%0D%0A+%0D%0ACommerce,+TX+75428?entry=gmail&source=g > > > Commerce, TX 75428 > < > https://www.google.com/maps/search/400+Maple+St+%0D%0A+%0D%0ACommerce,+TX+75428?entry=gmail&source=g > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* William Miller > *Sent:* 27 January 2026 02:30 > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Outback Power Support > *Subject:* Optics Data sunset > > You don't often get email from william at millersolar.com. *Learn why this is > important * > > Friends: > > > > I sat down today to download historic data from all of my OpticsRE > connected clients. This is pursuant to the notification from Outback that, > as of 2/1/26, the data beyond 6 months will be purged. I have 17 systems > connected and many of them for more than 5 years old. I rely on that data > for occasional troubleshooting and analysis. > > > > In the process I noticed a few odd things: > > > > 1. All of the data over 3 years old has already been purged. The > earliest record is 1/26/2023. > > 2. You can only request a report for a duration of 1 year, so with this > many legacy systems I needed to request a lot of reports, (42, given the > already purged data). This is time consuming and frustrating. Storage is > not expensive and these files are not that large so the policy change seems > to me to be overly parsimonious on the part of Outback. > > 3. I have found the graphic interface on Optics to be very handy. I can > look at a month view and see the daily production and consumption values. > Granted I have to type them into a spreadsheet. With the 15 minute > increments if I want to analyze the average daily solar production for last > January, for example, I am going to have to do some fancy spreadsheet > maneuvers to aggregate these 15 minute intervals. > > 4. The reports arrive via e-mail. So far I have requested 11 reports but > after I received just 4 of them they stopped arriving in my email. It has > been over an hour since I received the last report. > > 5. I am noticing a lot of gaps on the graphs. > > 6. I am noticing the colors on the voltage line graphs is not consistent > from site to site. Many of them are no longer yellow, green and red but > all yellow (orange-ish yellow). It seems to correlate with the setting you > have in Devices for battery type. > > The deadline to archive this data is fast approaching and I worry I just > won?t be able to access it. > > > > Have any of you been through this process yet, and if so, what are your > experiences? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > *www.millersolar.com * > > CA License C-10 77398 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260211/6e1aeba1/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 12:09:49 -0500 > From: Glenn > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction > Message-ID: <03a795ff-fcc5-4e86-b410-dc32bab2a853 at email.android.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260211/1e29b01c/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 48 > ******************************************* > -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 19:48:56 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 19:48:56 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar-thermal Expert Needed In-Reply-To: <1ece54dc-2907-4e63-aaf7-840ed17d8530@asis.com> References: <1ece54dc-2907-4e63-aaf7-840ed17d8530@asis.com> Message-ID: Hi Kelly, A friend of mine, Seth Tracy, with Aloe Solar is well versed in solar thermal systems. Not sure which part of California your customer is out of, but Seth works in the LA region. info at aloesolar.com Hope this helps! -Chris On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 7:43 PM Kelly Larson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Howdy Fellow Wrenches, > > I have a customer who has solar thermal systems on three apartment type > buildings they own in California and they have a lot of trouble with these > systems. Do you know an expert / consultant in solar thermal who could help > them? > > Thanks in advance! > > Kelly > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Kelly Larson > Reno, NV > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ > NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ > NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector™ > IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV > NCSU Lecturer > Solar Energy International Instructor > SolarKelly.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 20:30:16 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 20:30:16 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3rd party appraisal for Sonnen system donated to community college? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dan, I have experience with installing and servicing Sonnen. Although I let my certification lapse, Sonnen still allows me to work on their systems (maybe because no one else will in my area). Let me know if I can be of any help. Best, Chris On Mon, Feb 9, 2026 at 8:27 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Esteemed Wrenches — Please contact me off list if you are willing and able > to provide such a document as described here. > > I run the NABCEP PV Associate training program at Pueblo Community College > in Colorado, funded by a State renewable energy workforce development > grant. A colleague way up in NOCO where I live is upgrading the ESS at one > of his installations away from the existing Sonnen. His client wants to > donate it to the college. The original Sonnen ESS equipment cost, no > install labor included, was right at about $24k. > > The IRS paperwork 8283 clearly states that the Appraiser cannot be me or > anyone from the college, and can’t be anyone from the PV installation > company either. > > PCC and myself would be eternally grateful if someone with Sonnen > experience could help and provide an appraisal. The client wants a tax > deduction of course, but my students and myself could have endless fun with > a vintage Sonnen, explore different battery charge/discharge curves, try to > dark start, etc. > > TIA, please contact off list. I have lots of photos, receipts etc. > > Dan Fink > Renewable Energy Program Coordinator, Pueblo Community College > IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector > NABCEP PV Associate > danbob88 at gmail.com > 970-672-4342 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 21:54:05 2026 From: lucchesesolar at gmail.com (Nick Lucchese) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 18:54:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ underproduction In-Reply-To: References: <03a795ff-fcc5-4e86-b410-dc32bab2a853@email.android.com> Message-ID: All of my Qcell sites from about 8+ years ago have issues and have mostly been replaced. Surely the manufacturing techniques are nothing like they were back then but the lesson was confirmed, Qcells will no longer be an offering. Nick On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 4:13 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We have had an issue with Mission Solar 410 modules with bad diodes. > Fortunately, I think all of them were on Enphase microinverters, so they > are easy to spot. > > That's definitely a benefit of micros. I wonder how many strings are out > there with a bad panel that is undetected. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 2:05 PM Glenn via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We have seen a lot of Qcells with one diode failing and dropping module >> production by 1/3. >> I have a Solmetric curve tracer I am looking to part with... >> >> -Glenn >> >> On Feb 11, 2026 09:26, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> I must admit, this is a little embarrassing... this is what I get for >> trying to work with a head cold. I didn't remember that there was a change >> order on this one, and the original contract was for a larger system than >> what eventually got installed. I was looking at the producion estimate from >> the original larger system, which was around 17MWh/year. The actual >> production estimate is closer to 14.3MWh, and the system has averaged >> 13.5MWh over the past 5 years. So, 94% is not nearly as bad as I originally >> thought, although it is still not good either. >> >> The voltages that I am seeing on the Sunny Portal monitoring are still >> lower than I would expect. I think it is still worth checking out with an >> IR scan once the snow goes away and the sun comes back here in upstate NY. >> The recommendations for doing a curve trace would be the best >> troubleshooting step, although I have not yet invested in one of those. All >> this still leads me to believe that these Qcell modules may be not quite be >> performing to spec, but they are not as ridiculously far off as I feared. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2026 at 8:50 PM Roy Rakobitsch via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> It would be fairly easy to spot bypass diode issues or cell current >> imbalance issues with a hand-held IR imager on a decently sunny day. Maybe >> time to go on the roof and take a peek? >> >> >> Roy Rakobitsch >> >> Windsine LLC >> 631-514-4166 >> >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2026, 18:25 Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Looking at it from performance ie watts, how far off does it appear to be? >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> On Feb 10, 2026, at 2:07 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> Hi All, >> >> I was just reviewing a site installed about 5 years ago and am finding it >> is not doing nearly as well as I would have expected. Most of our sites >> produce relatively close to our projections, but this one is pretty far >> off. There are 3 strings of 12 Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G6+ modules. Two strings go >> to a 7.7kw inverter and one string goes to a 3.8kw inverter - both of which >> are the -41 series SMA inverters. There are Tigo TS4-R-F rapid shutdown >> devices on all the modules. >> >> Vmp for 12 of these panels should be about 407V at STC. At 50C (which is >> really hot for upstate NY), the Vmp should be around 380V. On a perfect >> summer day, I am seeing Vmp of around 320V. On a perfect spring day >> (cooler, with some power clipping, I am seeing Vmp of around 355V. And on a >> perfect winter day (when there was no snow) Vmp is around 365V. All three >> strings are pretty consistent with each other, so I don't think that there >> are specific installation issues with any panels, unless we managed to >> forget to wire in two panels in all three strings which is extremely >> unlikely. >> >> So, I can only think of two things that might be at play here: >> 1. Maybe these modules are just crap, and are not at all performing to >> spec. >> 2. Maybe the Tigo devices are causing issues. >> >> Has anyone out there experienced production issues like this? Everything >> appears normal, it is on an open rooftop, and there are not things like >> partial shading, weeds, bird poop, or other soiling affecting the modules. >> I don't have another site with the same modules that also has good >> monitoring data, but maybe some of you do! >> >> Thanks for the consideration! >> Cheers, >> Dave >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 270-0370 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwsolar1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 23:32:25 2026 From: cwsolar1 at gmail.com (Ken Schaal) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 23:32:25 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar-thermal Expert Needed In-Reply-To: References: <1ece54dc-2907-4e63-aaf7-840ed17d8530@asis.com> Message-ID: What kind of system? Details please... On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 9:27 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Kelly, > > A friend of mine, Seth Tracy, with Aloe Solar is well versed in solar > thermal systems. Not sure which part of California your customer is out of, > but Seth works in the LA region. > info at aloesolar.com > > Hope this helps! > > -Chris > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 7:43 PM Kelly Larson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Howdy Fellow Wrenches, >> >> I have a customer who has solar thermal systems on three apartment type >> buildings they own in California and they have a lot of trouble with these >> systems. Do you know an expert / consultant in solar thermal who could help >> them? >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> Kelly >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Kelly Larson >> Reno, NV >> Electrical Engineer >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ >> NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ >> NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ >> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector™ >> IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV >> NCSU Lecturer >> Solar Energy International Instructor >> SolarKelly.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 23:54:21 2026 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2026 21:54:21 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3rd party appraisal for Sonnen system donated to community college? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks ! Did you get my email this morning with all the photos and info about the donated system? I sent it from my PCC email address to keep it all official. If you didn’t, let me know and I’ll send it again. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate danbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 8:31 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Dan, > > I have experience with installing and servicing Sonnen. Although I let my > certification lapse, Sonnen still allows me to work on their systems (maybe > because no one else will in my area). Let me know if I can be of any help. > > Best, > > Chris > > On Mon, Feb 9, 2026 at 8:27 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Esteemed Wrenches — Please contact me off list if you are willing and >> able to provide such a document as described here. >> >> I run the NABCEP PV Associate training program at Pueblo Community >> College in Colorado, funded by a State renewable energy workforce >> development grant. A colleague way up in NOCO where I live is upgrading the >> ESS at one of his installations away from the existing Sonnen. His client >> wants to donate it to the college. The original Sonnen ESS equipment cost, >> no install labor included, was right at about $24k. >> >> The IRS paperwork 8283 clearly states that the Appraiser cannot be me or >> anyone from the college, and can’t be anyone from the PV installation >> company either. >> >> PCC and myself would be eternally grateful if someone with Sonnen >> experience could help and provide an appraisal. The client wants a tax >> deduction of course, but my students and myself could have endless fun with >> a vintage Sonnen, explore different battery charge/discharge curves, try to >> dark start, etc. >> >> TIA, please contact off list. I have lots of photos, receipts etc. >> >> Dan Fink >> Renewable Energy Program Coordinator, Pueblo Community College >> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation >> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector >> NABCEP PV Associate >> danbob88 at gmail.com >> 970-672-4342 >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chris at OasisMontana.com Thu Feb 12 10:53:19 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2026 08:53:19 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice for battery monitoring In-Reply-To: <79b645e0-96dd-420e-932e-1604aab7ccc8@solarray.com> References: <97112DD1-2B68-47A1-8231-625874083F37@mavericksolar.com> <79b645e0-96dd-420e-932e-1604aab7ccc8@solarray.com> Message-ID: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks: We’re helping a customer with a Magnum MS4448 power center (with a Midnite Classic controller) and the usual accoutrements; they’ve got three SimpliPhi 3.5KW batteries and are looking for a decent battery monitor for such. The system was installed in 2019. I’m looking at the Trimetric meter – but are there better alternatives? Thanks in advance for your wisdom! Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 14:03:02 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2026 12:03:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice for battery monitoring In-Reply-To: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> References: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <44FAD9E6-4716-40B6-A9BF-E9C661C1B6B7@gmail.com> I don’t know about better but the victron bmv-712 or 710 is solid and easy to use. It’s all about the setup to try and get it as accurate as possible. Jay > On Feb 12, 2026, at 11:25 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi folks: We’re helping a customer with a Magnum MS4448 power center (with a Midnite Classic controller) and the usual accoutrements; they’ve got three SimpliPhi 3.5KW batteries and are looking for a decent battery monitor for such. The system was installed in 2019. I’m looking at the Trimetric meter – but are there better alternatives? > > Thanks in advance for your wisdom! > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sue at midnitesolar.com Thu Feb 12 14:54:18 2026 From: Sue at midnitesolar.com (Sue Stankevitz) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2026 19:54:18 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice for battery monitoring In-Reply-To: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> References: <97112DD1-2B68-47A1-8231-625874083F37@mavericksolar.com> <79b645e0-96dd-420e-932e-1604aab7ccc8@solarray.com> <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: If you install the MNWBJR the Classic will provide accurate SOC and you can remote mount the display for more convenience if desired. Sue Stankevitz MidNite Solar, Inc. (360) 403-7207 (XT122) [cid:image001.gif at 01DC9C2F.76591DA0] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Chris Daum via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2026 10:53 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: Chris Daum Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice for battery monitoring Hi folks: We’re helping a customer with a Magnum MS4448 power center (with a Midnite Classic controller) and the usual accoutrements; they’ve got three SimpliPhi 3.5KW batteries and are looking for a decent battery monitor for such. The system was installed in 2019. I’m looking at the Trimetric meter – but are there better alternatives? Thanks in advance for your wisdom! Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4417 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Thu Feb 12 15:40:46 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2026 14:40:46 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice for battery monitoring In-Reply-To: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> References: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: I have two recommendations Victron smart shunt, which is a Bluetooth device. Also, since you have the MidNite classic, you could install a whizbang junior and a shunt. You could also put the MidNite classic on the Internet and view it that status remotely. (I’m assuming myMidNite is still available.) Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Feb 12, 2026, at 12:24 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi folks: We’re helping a customer with a Magnum MS4448 power center (with a Midnite Classic controller) and the usual accoutrements; they’ve got three SimpliPhi 3.5KW batteries and are looking for a decent battery monitor for such. The system was installed in 2019. I’m looking at the Trimetric meter – but are there better alternatives? > > Thanks in advance for your wisdom! > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Feb 12 17:24:33 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2026 17:24:33 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 48V EG4 Chargeverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Picking up a dormant subject, has anyone used the EG4 Chargeverter yet? Impressions? They are shipping now from one of my distributors. I'm also wondering if they could be paralleled onto the battery for double the amps, I see no reason why not. That would be cheaper than buying a 10kw inverter/charger to use as a dumb battery charger only. My application is to use them with a totally manual start/stop genny for emergency charge. Open loop with existing inverter. FYI, there are some portable-looking 48v 50-100A chargers in the range of $600-$800 online, no doubt Chinese, but if you're only using it a few times a year.... On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 9:00 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > Jason, > > The NOCO GX4820 is a great charger. I've used it to dark-start Fortress > and Blue Planet 48v cabinets, instead of dinky trickle chargers taking > hours to do the same job. > Priced at $500 a year and a half ago. its rated @ 110 -240 vac input. The > one I bought came only with a 120v cord. > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 7:29 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I'm looking for a suggestion for a good all-around charger for service >> purposes. I would consider a 240V or 120V option. The purpose is primarily >> to charge 5kWh lithium batteries. >> >> I would probably just pick up an EG4 Chargeverter, but it is >> back-ordered. Something more portable would be nice. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 34st Anniversary 1991-2025!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Feb 12 17:31:35 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2026 17:31:35 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 48V EG4 Chargeverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have used it to jump-start some LFP batteries that got too low. The continuous charge current is as advertised. The setup is straightforward. I have a variety of connectors/jumpers to connect to different battery terminals. It's nice to have the 240V cable that comes with it, but I recommend getting the 120V cable as well for convenience and flexibility if you plan to use it in this capacity. I know of people using several of these permanently installed in parallel without issue on large LFP battery banks, but I have never done it myself. And I'm about to install a Chargeverter on a Conext system that can't seem to trigger a generator reliably, so I need a way for the owner to turn on the generator manually and have something start charging batteries that are below the Conext LBCO, no questions asked. The Chargeverter seems like a perfect fit. If the Conext system does start the generator successfully, the Chargeverter will just be another source (I will need to adjust the charge parameters of the inverters and make sure I'm not overloading the generator). Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 12, 2026 at 5:25 PM Kirk Herander wrote: > Picking up a dormant subject, has anyone used the EG4 Chargeverter yet? > Impressions? They are shipping now from one of my distributors. > > I'm also wondering if they could be paralleled onto the battery for double > the amps, I see no reason why not. That would be cheaper than buying a 10kw > inverter/charger to use as a dumb battery charger only. > > My application is to use them with a totally manual start/stop genny for > emergency charge. Open loop with existing inverter. > > FYI, there are some portable-looking 48v 50-100A chargers in the range of > $600-$800 online, no doubt Chinese, but if you're only using it a few times > a year.... > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 9:00 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > >> Jason, >> >> The NOCO GX4820 is a great charger. I've used it to dark-start Fortress >> and Blue Planet 48v cabinets, instead of dinky trickle chargers taking >> hours to do the same job. >> Priced at $500 a year and a half ago. its rated @ 110 -240 vac input. The >> one I bought came only with a 120v cord. >> >> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 7:29 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I'm looking for a suggestion for a good all-around charger for service >>> purposes. I would consider a 240V or 120V option. The purpose is primarily >>> to charge 5kWh lithium batteries. >>> >>> I would probably just pick up an EG4 Chargeverter, but it is >>> back-ordered. Something more portable would be nice. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 34st Anniversary 1991-2025!!* >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.559.1225 >> > > > -- > > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 19:50:59 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2026 17:50:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 48V EG4 Chargeverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarwrench at asis.com Fri Feb 13 17:17:31 2026 From: solarwrench at asis.com (Kelly Larson) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2026 14:17:31 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar-thermal Expert Needed In-Reply-To: References: <1ece54dc-2907-4e63-aaf7-840ed17d8530@asis.com> Message-ID: <6d8a82bf-d833-438c-8735-6258dd4193b4@asis.com> Hi Ken, All I've got is that the systems are on three apartment type buildings in California and that they have a lot of trouble with these systems. Blessings, Kelly On 2/11/26 8:32 PM, Ken Schaal via RE-wrenches wrote: > What kind of system?  Details please... > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 9:27 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi Kelly, > > A friend of mine, Seth Tracy, with Aloe Solar is well versed in > solar thermal systems. Not sure which part of California your > customer is out of, but Seth works in the LA region. > info at aloesolar.com > > Hope this helps! > > -Chris > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 7:43 PM Kelly Larson via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Howdy Fellow Wrenches, > > I have a customer who has solar thermal systems on three > apartment type buildings they own in California and they have > a lot of trouble with these systems. Do you know an expert / > consultant in solar thermal who could help them? > > Thanks in advance! > > Kelly > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Kelly Larson > Reno, NV > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ > NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ > NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector™ > IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV > NCSU Lecturer > Solar Energy International Instructor > SolarKelly.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarwrench at asis.com Fri Feb 13 17:22:28 2026 From: solarwrench at asis.com (Kelly Larson) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2026 14:22:28 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar-thermal Expert Needed In-Reply-To: References: <1ece54dc-2907-4e63-aaf7-840ed17d8530@asis.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Chris.  I'll refer them to him. Blessings, Kelly On 2/11/26 4:48 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: > Seth Tracy, with Aloe Solar is well versed in solar thermal systems. > Not sure which part of California your customer is out of, but Seth > works in the LA region. > info at aloesolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Ken at commonwealthsolar.com Fri Feb 13 17:39:16 2026 From: Ken at commonwealthsolar.com (Ken Schaal) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2026 17:39:16 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar-thermal Expert Needed In-Reply-To: <6d8a82bf-d833-438c-8735-6258dd4193b4@asis.com> References: <1ece54dc-2907-4e63-aaf7-840ed17d8530@asis.com> <6d8a82bf-d833-438c-8735-6258dd4193b4@asis.com> Message-ID: They can call me . Retired now, and in Va., but i started with thermal in '76 . 804 216 5371 No money involved On Fri, Feb 13, 2026, 5:21 PM Kelly Larson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Ken, > > All I've got is that the systems are on three apartment type buildings in > California and that they have a lot of trouble with these systems. > > Blessings, > > Kelly > > > On 2/11/26 8:32 PM, Ken Schaal via RE-wrenches wrote: > > What kind of system? Details please... > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 9:27 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Kelly, >> >> A friend of mine, Seth Tracy, with Aloe Solar is well versed in solar >> thermal systems. Not sure which part of California your customer is out of, >> but Seth works in the LA region. >> info at aloesolar.com >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> -Chris >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 7:43 PM Kelly Larson via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Howdy Fellow Wrenches, >>> >>> I have a customer who has solar thermal systems on three apartment type >>> buildings they own in California and they have a lot of trouble with these >>> systems. Do you know an expert / consultant in solar thermal who could help >>> them? >>> >>> Thanks in advance! >>> >>> Kelly >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Kelly Larson >>> Reno, NV >>> Electrical Engineer >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ >>> NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ >>> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector™ >>> IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV >>> NCSU Lecturer >>> Solar Energy International Instructor >>> SolarKelly.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 09:13:32 2026 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2026 07:13:32 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice for battery monitoring In-Reply-To: References: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, One strategy that I have been using to add intelligence to older systems is to add a Victron shunt and a Victron Ekrano. This allows efficient battery monitoring via a very nice screen and you can hand generator starting duties to the Ekrano. Another potential benefit is the ability to remotely monitor the battery and generator starting control (via Victron VRM), set up some simple alerts and verify the depth of discharge. If you have a battery that supports closed-loop control, you can probably eliminate the shunt, although I prefer having both options (victron can have a primary and secondary battery monitor) The Ekrano/shunt combo isn't cheap, but it is quite powerful and can precisely inform future system upgrades. On Thu, Feb 12, 2026 at 3:42 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have two recommendations > > Victron smart shunt, which is a Bluetooth device. > > Also, since you have the MidNite classic, you could install a whizbang > junior and a shunt. You could also put the MidNite classic on the Internet > and view it that status remotely. (I’m assuming myMidNite is still > available.) > > Thank you, > > Maverick > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > • Solar Commander Remote Power > • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > > On Feb 12, 2026, at 12:24 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Hi folks: We’re helping a customer with a Magnum MS4448 power center > (with a Midnite Classic controller) and the usual accoutrements; they’ve > got three SimpliPhi 3.5KW batteries and are looking for a decent battery > monitor for such. The system was installed in 2019. I’m looking at the > Trimetric meter – but are there better alternatives? > > > > Thanks in advance for your wisdom! > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 12:06:14 2026 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:06:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice for battery monitoring In-Reply-To: References: <009801dc9c37$b5ec7860$21c56920$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Chris, Since the TriMetric price has come down, I still recommend it as the bright voltage display with a convenient location is a quick check even for others to see (ie wife, Kid, caretaker). I still look at mine every day in spite of having Optics, 2 computers and an I pad, and the charge controllers are 7 steps away on the stairway landing. John B On Sat, Feb 14, 2026 at 9:15 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > One strategy that I have been using to add intelligence to older systems > is to add a Victron shunt and a Victron Ekrano. This allows efficient > battery monitoring via a very nice screen and you can hand generator > starting duties to the Ekrano. Another potential benefit is the ability to > remotely monitor the battery and generator starting control (via Victron > VRM), set up some simple alerts and verify the depth of discharge. If you > have a battery that supports closed-loop control, you can probably > eliminate the shunt, although I prefer having both options (victron can > have a primary and secondary battery monitor) > > The Ekrano/shunt combo isn't cheap, but it is quite powerful and can > precisely inform future system upgrades. > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2026 at 3:42 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I have two recommendations >> >> Victron smart shunt, which is a Bluetooth device. >> >> Also, since you have the MidNite classic, you could install a whizbang >> junior and a shunt. You could also put the MidNite classic on the Internet >> and view it that status remotely. (I’m assuming myMidNite is still >> available.) >> >> Thank you, >> >> Maverick >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. >> • Solar Commander Remote Power >> • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection >> maverick at mavericksolar.com >> 512-460-9825 >> >> >> >> On Feb 12, 2026, at 12:24 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> >> Hi folks: We’re helping a customer with a Magnum MS4448 power center >> (with a Midnite Classic controller) and the usual accoutrements; they’ve >> got three SimpliPhi 3.5KW batteries and are looking for a decent battery >> monitor for such. The system was installed in 2019. I’m looking at the >> Trimetric meter – but are there better alternatives? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for your wisdom! >> >> >> >> Chris Daum >> >> Oasis Montana Inc. >> >> 406-777-4309 or 4321 >> >> 406-777-4309 fax >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue Feb 17 09:27:44 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2026 14:27:44 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] The SolarEdge 'Storedge' and LG Resu 9.8 batteries are acting nutso? No recharge from solar when connected t othe grid Message-ID: On Feb 9, I noticed my personal Storedge / LG Resu 9.8 system didn't re-charge the battery on a sunny day and assumed a battery issue. We quickly assessed it was more than my system but nearly all of our Storedge LG 9.8 systems. My personal system performs just fine when in simulated backup and it charges and recharges just fine but as soon as it went to grid connection, the solar PV re-charging ceased. SolarEdge kinda/sorta but without outright acknowledging anything said "swap the energy profile and then return it to the original setting" so we figured maybe here was a corrupted firmware. Seemed to fix for many but some went a day or two and then same issue arose. Anybody else have Storedge / LG 9.8 issues. We're not seeing in the EnergyHub / LG Prime battery combos. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:e043269b-5ffb-4bd4-80ed-d0a483165fe7] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-mztzm05b.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-mztzm05b.png URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Feb 18 15:44:45 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2026 20:44:45 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] RE-POSTING SolarEdge "StorEdge' not PV charging the LG Resu 9.8 battery across the fleet Message-ID: I'm re-posting as my original submission does not seem to be on the site...was wondering why all were so quiet. ORIGINAL POST: On Feb 9, I noticed my personal Storedge / LG Resu 9.8 system didn't re-charge the battery on a sunny day and assumed a battery issue. We quickly assessed it was more than my system but nearly all of our Storedge LG 9.8 systems. My personal system performs just fine when in simulated backup and it charges and recharges just fine but as soon as it went to grid connection, the solar PV re-charging ceased. SolarEdge kinda/sorta but without outright acknowledging anything said "swap the energy profile and then return it to the original setting" so we figured maybe here was a corrupted firmware. Seemed to fix for many but some went a day or two and then same issue arose. Anybody else have Storedge / LG 9.8 issues. We're not seeing in the EnergyHub / LG Prime battery combos. UPDATE: Problem persists and SolarEdge (tier 1) has said "you'll need to go to each site" but we know that all systems didn't magically have a wiring problem that day. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:5b7aefe1-676d-45d0-9f0a-34d09af05b17] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-2uspklhd.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-2uspklhd.png URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Sun Feb 22 20:27:23 2026 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2026 17:27:23 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin: Traffic & Biographies Message-ID: <1771810059559.4a553d283c43f369@re-wrenches.org> Hi gang. If you wish to comment on this post, please contact me off-list. Whenever the list is quiet for a few days, it worries me that something is wrong. And this time, a Wrench's posting received no replies. So that makes me want to test with an admin message like this one. Also, many of your biography pages are sorely out of date. This is not good, because there are a few folks out there that use our bios to search for experienced installers in their areas. I use it for that purpose regularly. So it pays to keep your bio page up to date. You can review and edit your bio page by going here and clicking on your name: http://members.re-wrenches.org/ Remember, editing your bio page does not change your email address on the Wrench List Server, and vice versa. There is no exchange between the two. From gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 09:15:10 2026 From: gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com (Jim Gowdy) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 06:15:10 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Batteries Fire Safety Message-ID: Good Morning, I have a customer where we are replacing their FLA battery bank with Lithium, specifically the Discover Helios ESS 16.1KW battery and they have concerns about fire suppression in case the battery catches on fire. I've never really thought about it other than installing them on non combustible material and letting the BMS handle any over temp, over charging, etc. I've seen batteries grid tied and offgrid where the batteries are mounted in all sorts of places and I don't think anyone has fire suppression on their minds. Has anyone had any experience needing to install some sort of fire suppression for their battery bank or have any thoughts on this matter? -- Jim with Gowdy Electric Cambria, Ca 93428 business 805 927 2630 cell 805 975 5279 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 09:28:44 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 06:28:44 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Batteries Fire Safety In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't installed those but searching them on Google indicated that they are inherently safer than lead acid and additionally have a two stage fire suppression system built in. I bet their website has more specific info you could share with the customer. They are 9540 listed as well. On Mon, Feb 23, 2026, 6:16 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good Morning, > I have a customer where we are replacing their FLA battery bank with > Lithium, specifically the Discover Helios ESS 16.1KW battery and they have > concerns about fire suppression in case the battery catches on fire. I've > never really thought about it other than installing them on non > combustible material and letting the BMS handle any over temp, over > charging, etc. I've seen batteries grid tied and offgrid where the > batteries are mounted in all sorts of places and I don't think anyone has > fire suppression on their minds. Has anyone had any experience needing to > install some sort of fire suppression for their battery bank or have any > thoughts on this matter? > > -- > Jim with Gowdy Electric > Cambria, Ca 93428 > business 805 927 2630 > cell 805 975 5279 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Mon Feb 23 09:36:14 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (david quattro) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 06:36:14 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Batteries Fire Safety In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Midnite Power 16kWh batteries also have fire suppression built in. On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 6:29 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I haven't installed those but searching them on Google indicated that they > are inherently safer than lead acid and additionally have a two stage fire > suppression system built in. I bet their website has more specific info you > could share with the customer. They are 9540 listed as well. > > > > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2026, 6:16 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Good Morning, >> I have a customer where we are replacing their FLA battery bank with >> Lithium, specifically the Discover Helios ESS 16.1KW battery and they have >> concerns about fire suppression in case the battery catches on fire. I've >> never really thought about it other than installing them on non >> combustible material and letting the BMS handle any over temp, over >> charging, etc. I've seen batteries grid tied and offgrid where the >> batteries are mounted in all sorts of places and I don't think anyone has >> fire suppression on their minds. Has anyone had any experience needing to >> install some sort of fire suppression for their battery bank or have any >> thoughts on this matter? >> >> -- >> Jim with Gowdy Electric >> Cambria, Ca 93428 >> business 805 927 2630 >> cell 805 975 5279 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Feb 23 09:40:26 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:40:26 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Batteries Fire Safety In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jim, Take a look at the requirements in the 2024 IRC for energy storage systems. https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2024V2.0/chapter-3-building-planning#IRC2024V2.0_Pt03_Ch03_SecR330 Specifically R330.4. To me, this is kind of insanity when dealing with lithium iron phosphate batteries. I am dealing with it on a project right now, where we are installing batteries in an unfinished basement. We are going to have to build out a drywalled enclosure around the batteries, fire tape the seams, fire caulk the holes where the cables come out, and then also build a custom drywall door that will self-close and self latch. All of this for something that is (according to this youtube video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60LEo0Rwpp8) less flammable than a piece of wood. I understand that loose connections can heat up and pose a fire risk, but it is less likely to burn than a loose connection in an outlet in the wall. I wonder if there is even a single example of residential LFP (not NMC) batteries installed properly and with a proper BMS going up in flames? Safety efforts would be better directed at drywalling around every single outlet in the house... NY now enforces this code, and it is really difficult when you come up against an AHJ who enforces it to the letter of the code. Does anyone have an idea how to get this code to realign with reality? Cheers, Dave On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 9:18 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good Morning, > I have a customer where we are replacing their FLA battery bank with > Lithium, specifically the Discover Helios ESS 16.1KW battery and they have > concerns about fire suppression in case the battery catches on fire. I've > never really thought about it other than installing them on non > combustible material and letting the BMS handle any over temp, over > charging, etc. I've seen batteries grid tied and offgrid where the > batteries are mounted in all sorts of places and I don't think anyone has > fire suppression on their minds. Has anyone had any experience needing to > install some sort of fire suppression for their battery bank or have any > thoughts on this matter? > > -- > Jim with Gowdy Electric > Cambria, Ca 93428 > business 805 927 2630 > cell 805 975 5279 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 11:14:41 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 09:14:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Batteries Fire Safety In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0E9F284E-87EE-4D3B-ADFF-71300C7EE239@gmail.com> I’m going to disagree about LFP not being capable of burning or exploding. And no I don’t agree with Prose. Here is but one of a lot you can find online. I have seen and talked to a number of fellow installers who have had different LFP batteries fail, some have been contained within the steel container, others not. How is this possible? One avenue is the BMS fails then it’s possible for a single cell to get above the 3.65v which can cause it to fail and then you have the below. Other is of course a faulty manufacturing process. In regards to the IRC, I would include just like with LA that ventilation is important to try and prevent enough concentration of gas to reach the explosive threshold. jay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWBt6nv8U58 Electric Boat Explodes While Charging: LFP Batteries youtube.com > On Feb 23, 2026, at 7:40 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Take a look at the requirements in the 2024 IRC for energy storage systems. > https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2024V2.0/chapter-3-building-planning#IRC2024V2.0_Pt03_Ch03_SecR330 > > Specifically R330.4. To me, this is kind of insanity when dealing with lithium iron phosphate batteries. I am dealing with it on a project right now, where we are installing batteries in an unfinished basement. We are going to have to build out a drywalled enclosure around the batteries, fire tape the seams, fire caulk the holes where the cables come out, and then also build a custom drywall door that will self-close and self latch. All of this for something that is (according to this youtube video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60LEo0Rwpp8) less flammable than a piece of wood. I understand that loose connections can heat up and pose a fire risk, but it is less likely to burn than a loose connection in an outlet in the wall. I wonder if there is even a single example of residential LFP (not NMC) batteries installed properly and with a proper BMS going up in flames? Safety efforts would be better directed at drywalling around every single outlet in the house... > > NY now enforces this code, and it is really difficult when you come up against an AHJ who enforces it to the letter of the code. > Does anyone have an idea how to get this code to realign with reality? > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 9:18 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> Good Morning, >> I have a customer where we are replacing their FLA battery bank with Lithium, specifically the Discover Helios ESS 16.1KW battery and they have concerns about fire suppression in case the battery catches on fire. I've never really thought about it other than installing them on non combustible material and letting the BMS handle any over temp, over charging, etc. I've seen batteries grid tied and offgrid where the batteries are mounted in all sorts of places and I don't think anyone has fire suppression on their minds. Has anyone had any experience needing to install some sort of fire suppression for their battery bank or have any thoughts on this matter? >> >> -- >> Jim with Gowdy Electric >> Cambria, Ca 93428 >> business 805 927 2630 >> cell 805 975 5279 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: maxresdefault.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 174673 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Mon Feb 23 12:52:58 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 12:52:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Batteries Fire Safety In-Reply-To: <0E9F284E-87EE-4D3B-ADFF-71300C7EE239@gmail.com> References: <0E9F284E-87EE-4D3B-ADFF-71300C7EE239@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay I somewhat agree, and you must carefully look at what battery is being installed, and what certification it holds. If the LFP battery is Tested with UL9540A then certified to UL9540 after PASSING the UL9540A testing, (and the battery really has that rating). I would not be too concerned with fire. If you read the test reports and understand how this testing is performed, you will then see how safe LFP is. Sure, there are plenty of LFP batteries being sold and installed that do not have the UL9540A test certification. *With those batteries I WOULD be concerned.* Do not fall for the Hype, understand the Certifications and the Testing you will then feel confident in the certified LFP batteries. *Ask the manufacturer for a copy of the 9540A test report and read it, after that you will understand how the certification works.* Many MFG's will not provide the actual Test report, and that is unfortunate because if you read one you will then feel much better about LFP if it is certified. Example: Under the UL9540A test method, the battery is put into a full thermal runaway, the battery must contain ALL fire. The battery is draped with cheesecloth and if any of the cloth gets burned through, the battery fails the test. This is just one example of the many tests the LFP battery must go through to get the certification. Logan On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 11:17 AM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’m going to disagree about LFP not being capable of burning or exploding. > > And no I don’t agree with Prose. > > Here is but one of a lot you can find online. > I have seen and talked to a number of fellow installers who have had > different LFP batteries fail, some have been contained within the steel > container, others not. > > How is this possible? One avenue is the BMS fails then it’s possible for > a single cell to get above the 3.65v which can cause it to fail and then > you have the below. Other is of course a faulty manufacturing process. > > In regards to the IRC, I would include just like with LA that ventilation > is important to try and prevent enough concentration of gas to reach the > explosive threshold. > > jay > > > > [image: maxresdefault.jpg] > > Electric Boat Explodes While Charging: LFP Batteries > > youtube.com > > > > On Feb 23, 2026, at 7:40 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > Take a look at the requirements in the 2024 IRC for energy storage > systems. > > https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2024V2.0/chapter-3-building-planning#IRC2024V2.0_Pt03_Ch03_SecR330 > > Specifically R330.4. To me, this is kind of insanity when dealing with > lithium iron phosphate batteries. I am dealing with it on a project right > now, where we are installing batteries in an unfinished basement. We are > going to have to build out a drywalled enclosure around the batteries, fire > tape the seams, fire caulk the holes where the cables come out, and then > also build a custom drywall door that will self-close and self latch. All > of this for something that is (according to this youtube video - > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60LEo0Rwpp8) less flammable than a piece > of wood. I understand that loose connections can heat up and pose a fire > risk, but it is less likely to burn than a loose connection in an outlet in > the wall. I wonder if there is even a single example of residential LFP > (not NMC) batteries installed properly and with a proper BMS going up in > flames? Safety efforts would be better directed at drywalling around every > single outlet in the house... > > NY now enforces this code, and it is really difficult when you come up > against an AHJ who enforces it to the letter of the code. > Does anyone have an idea how to get this code to realign with reality? > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 9:18 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Good Morning, >> I have a customer where we are replacing their FLA battery bank with >> Lithium, specifically the Discover Helios ESS 16.1KW battery and they have >> concerns about fire suppression in case the battery catches on fire. I've >> never really thought about it other than installing them on non >> combustible material and letting the BMS handle any over temp, over >> charging, etc. I've seen batteries grid tied and offgrid where the >> batteries are mounted in all sorts of places and I don't think anyone has >> fire suppression on their minds. Has anyone had any experience needing to >> install some sort of fire suppression for their battery bank or have any >> thoughts on this matter? >> >> -- >> Jim with Gowdy Electric >> Cambria, Ca 93428 >> business 805 927 2630 >> cell 805 975 5279 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: maxresdefault.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 174673 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Mon Feb 23 12:59:27 2026 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 12:59:27 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Batteries Fire Safety In-Reply-To: References: <0E9F284E-87EE-4D3B-ADFF-71300C7EE239@gmail.com> Message-ID: Login, Might you share with us the link to the UL9540A test method for the MidNite PwrFlo 16? New York is a tough state indeed. Christopher On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 12:54 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Jay > > I somewhat agree, and you must carefully look at what battery is being > installed, and what certification it holds. > > If the LFP battery is Tested with UL9540A then certified to UL9540 after > PASSING the UL9540A testing, (and the battery really has that rating). I > would not be too concerned with fire. If you read the test reports and > understand how this testing is performed, you will then see how safe LFP is. > > Sure, there are plenty of LFP batteries being sold and installed that do > not have the UL9540A test certification. *With those batteries I WOULD be > concerned.* > > Do not fall for the Hype, understand the Certifications and the Testing > you will then feel confident in the certified LFP batteries. > > *Ask the manufacturer for a copy of the 9540A test report and read it, > after that you will understand how the certification works.* Many MFG's > will not provide the actual Test report, and that is unfortunate because if > you read one you will then feel much better about LFP if it is certified. > > Example: Under the UL9540A test method, the battery is put into a full > thermal runaway, the battery must contain ALL fire. The battery is draped > with cheesecloth and if any of the cloth gets burned through, the battery > fails the test. This is just one example of the many tests the LFP battery > must go through to get the certification. > > Logan > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 11:17 AM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I’m going to disagree about LFP not being capable of burning or >> exploding. >> >> And no I don’t agree with Prose. >> >> Here is but one of a lot you can find online. >> I have seen and talked to a number of fellow installers who have had >> different LFP batteries fail, some have been contained within the steel >> container, others not. >> >> How is this possible? One avenue is the BMS fails then it’s possible >> for a single cell to get above the 3.65v which can cause it to fail and >> then you have the below. Other is of course a faulty manufacturing >> process. >> >> In regards to the IRC, I would include just like with LA that ventilation >> is important to try and prevent enough concentration of gas to reach the >> explosive threshold. >> >> jay >> >> >> >> [image: maxresdefault.jpg] >> >> Electric Boat Explodes While Charging: LFP Batteries >> >> youtube.com >> >> >> >> On Feb 23, 2026, at 7:40 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Jim, >> >> Take a look at the requirements in the 2024 IRC for energy storage >> systems. >> >> https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2024V2.0/chapter-3-building-planning#IRC2024V2.0_Pt03_Ch03_SecR330 >> >> Specifically R330.4. To me, this is kind of insanity when dealing with >> lithium iron phosphate batteries. I am dealing with it on a project right >> now, where we are installing batteries in an unfinished basement. We are >> going to have to build out a drywalled enclosure around the batteries, fire >> tape the seams, fire caulk the holes where the cables come out, and then >> also build a custom drywall door that will self-close and self latch. All >> of this for something that is (according to this youtube video - >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60LEo0Rwpp8) less flammable than a piece >> of wood. I understand that loose connections can heat up and pose a fire >> risk, but it is less likely to burn than a loose connection in an outlet in >> the wall. I wonder if there is even a single example of residential LFP >> (not NMC) batteries installed properly and with a proper BMS going up in >> flames? Safety efforts would be better directed at drywalling around every >> single outlet in the house... >> >> NY now enforces this code, and it is really difficult when you come up >> against an AHJ who enforces it to the letter of the code. >> Does anyone have an idea how to get this code to realign with reality? >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 9:18 AM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Good Morning, >>> I have a customer where we are replacing their FLA battery bank >>> with Lithium, specifically the Discover Helios ESS 16.1KW battery and they >>> have concerns about fire suppression in case the battery catches on fire. >>> I've never really thought about it other than installing them on non >>> combustible material and letting the BMS handle any over temp, over >>> charging, etc. I've seen batteries grid tied and offgrid where the >>> batteries are mounted in all sorts of places and I don't think anyone has >>> fire suppression on their minds. Has anyone had any experience needing to >>> install some sort of fire suppression for their battery bank or have any >>> thoughts on this matter? >>> >>> -- >>> Jim with Gowdy Electric >>> Cambria, Ca 93428 >>> business 805 927 2630 >>> cell 805 975 5279 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: maxresdefault.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 174673 bytes Desc: not available URL: From travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Mon Feb 23 14:40:51 2026 From: travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com (Travis Knipple) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 14:40:51 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 600VDC 3 Phase Inverters Message-ID: Hi wrenches, I've got a service call that needs a ~50kVA inverter, 3 phase (could be 208 or 480) I'm replacing an older system, and the existing stringing is set up with: 3 strings, with each strings calculations ending up at: ~359Vmp (Hottest Conditions) -510Voc (Cold) 40A Imp, 42.8A Isc So, I'm hitting 2 issues: (A) Vmp too low for many newer inverters (B) Newer inverters want to land each string individually, and this system merged the strings in DC Cominers at the array, so I would prefer to give the 40A input to 1 terminal if possible to avoid a 300' repull. (I have 3 pairs of #4, and would have to repull 15 pairs of #10. It's possible, but not preferred) If anyone has a brand of inverters I should investigate that may work, please let me know. Thanks, Travis -- Travis Knipple Senior Engineer Hudson Solar Solutions LLC Rhinebeck, NY 12572 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com PVIP# PV-111821-013612 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Feb 23 15:15:04 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 12:15:04 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 600VDC 3 Phase Inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Travis: This is the classic “repowering” dilemma. Low voltage string wiring versus new 1000 or 1500 VDC inverters. We used CPS 60 K inverters and bypassed the on-board combiner. The CP60 will operate at lower string voltages. The inverters are operating somewhat outside the most efficient parameters but the system is working reliably. Here is a link to the case study: https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/30-Re-Powering/re-powering.html Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Mon, Feb 23, 2026 at 11:42 AM Travis Knipple via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi wrenches, > I've got a service call that needs a ~50kVA inverter, 3 phase (could be > 208 or 480) > I'm replacing an older system, and the existing stringing is set up with: > 3 strings, with each strings calculations ending up at: > ~359Vmp (Hottest Conditions) > -510Voc (Cold) > 40A Imp, 42.8A Isc > > So, I'm hitting 2 issues: > (A) Vmp too low for many newer inverters > (B) Newer inverters want to land each string individually, and this system > merged the strings in DC Cominers at the array, so I would prefer to give > the 40A input to 1 terminal if possible to avoid a 300' repull. (I have 3 > pairs of #4, and would have to repull 15 pairs of #10. It's possible, but > not preferred) > > If anyone has a brand of inverters I should investigate that may work, > please let me know. > Thanks, > Travis > > -- > Travis Knipple > Senior Engineer > Hudson Solar Solutions LLC > Rhinebeck, NY 12572 > 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com > > PVIP# PV-111821-013612 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 17:50:47 2026 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2026 15:50:47 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lynk2 with Sunny Island Message-ID: Hello, Does anyone have experience getting Discover Lynk 2 to close-loop with Sunny Island inverters? Thanks in advance! Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lauraconchelos at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 10:59:29 2026 From: lauraconchelos at gmail.com (Laura Conchelos) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 08:59:29 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs Message-ID: Hi all, I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to pay shipping for an RMA before. So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now charging shipping for replacement products? It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? Laura Conchelos Sandhill Solar LLC Monte Vista CO -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 11:04:57 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 09:04:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Laura Do you mean one of the new Discover server rack battereis? If so it can’t be very old? Is it a bms failure? Jay > On Feb 26, 2026, at 9:00 AM, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi all, > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to pay shipping for an RMA before. > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now charging shipping for replacement products? > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > Laura Conchelos > Sandhill Solar LLC > Monte Vista CO > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Feb 26 11:22:01 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 11:22:01 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh boy, does Sol-Ark charge for shipping... The costs for warranty on their inverters are ridiculous, not to mention the $3,000 deposit they require before they advance ship a unit. For this reason, among others, including lack of compensation for their ridiculous diagnostic hoops and replacements, I stopped selling Sol-Ark altogether. They have no idea what damage the service department is doing to their brand. I haven't had to RMA many batteries, but in every case, the costs were covered by the manufacturer (EG4, Tesla, Enphase, HomeGrid, Midnite, etc). Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 11:00 AM Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all, > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I > started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the > replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of > the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal > of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone > knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me > know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that > sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to > pay shipping for an RMA before. > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > charging shipping for replacement products? > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the > equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to > have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > Laura Conchelos > Sandhill Solar LLC > Monte Vista CO > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Thu Feb 26 11:47:38 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 08:47:38 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8993497da8d74bfdd7e134a9570dd97a@sti.net> Bill for everything ! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi all, > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When > I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs > for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, > is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or > for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is > difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries > in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though > that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for module > replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to > pay shipping for an RMA before. > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > charging shipping for replacement products? > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when > the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm > going to have to build into the initial install going forward. > Thoughts? > > Laura Conchelos > Sandhill Solar LLC > Monte Vista CO > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Thu Feb 26 12:23:46 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 09:23:46 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <8993497da8d74bfdd7e134a9570dd97a@sti.net> References: <8993497da8d74bfdd7e134a9570dd97a@sti.net> Message-ID: Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the shipping costs under that warranty. One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the company a black eye. A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the cost of the product itself. The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s geographic location. That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting customers and maintaining financial responsibility. At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I can get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. Steve Higgins. On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > Bill for everything ! > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I > started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the > replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of > the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal > of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone > knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me > know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that > sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to > pay shipping for an RMA before. > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > charging shipping for replacement products? > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the > equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to > have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > Laura Conchelos > Sandhill Solar LLC > Monte Vista CO > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Thu Feb 26 12:55:10 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (david quattro) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 09:55:10 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <8993497da8d74bfdd7e134a9570dd97a@sti.net> References: <8993497da8d74bfdd7e134a9570dd97a@sti.net> Message-ID: I think I have said this here before. A few years ago, after long disappointing conversations with a manufacturer, where I showed them exhaustive evidence of their botched tech support, serial component failure, and dozens of wasted manhours - I was sad to take them to small claims court. This tactic was successful. The hardest part is serving the papers to an executive on staff, but frankly even that is not very difficult. Only if we all fight back as installers will manufacturers improve their behavior. The word Warranty needs to mean something. I am accustomed to excellent customer service provided by SMA America, Fronius, Generac, and Enphase. I also remember when SHARP made solar modules, their adherence to their warranty was bar none. The manufacturers I mentioned all covered shipping and labor reimbursement with no questions asked. Personally I have gotten speedy service from SolArk including shipping of small parts, but I have never needed to replace a full inverter, and to note - SolArk does not pay for labor. On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:48 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > Bill for everything ! > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > https://offgridsolar1.com/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I > started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the > replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of > the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal > of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone > knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me > know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that > sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to > pay shipping for an RMA before. > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > charging shipping for replacement products? > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the > equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to > have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > Laura Conchelos > Sandhill Solar LLC > Monte Vista CO > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 13:04:22 2026 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MDElectricSolar) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 10:04:22 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E2C8F25-C575-4290-BE35-57CB0359B8B7@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Thu Feb 26 13:42:37 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 18:42:37 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, Sol-Ark warranty...I've never paid S/H and a deposit for fixing any other brand's defective inverter. I could live with the $3,000 deposit but the shipping and handling n both directions is salt in the wound. Has been a good product for us but product by itself without good installer support and manufacturer de-risking leads us to deemphasize this product until the company grows up and implements better installer support. They should not pawn off their costs on to my balance sheet! The incident gives me deja-vu of an incident in 2018 wih another manufacturer that prompted me to write this essay on LinkedIn: (40) Beware the new mousetrap (or solar storage system)...a lesson learned from PowerStation247 | LinkedIn My email to Sol-Ark a few days ago; no response from anybody in management: "I am writing to express my deep frustration with Sol-Ark warranty support. I just paid $3,465 to replace a defective Sol-Ark 15KW that lasted about one month on the wall. While I acknowledge I'll get back the $3,000 "deposit" back, I won't get back the $465 for the shipping labels to receive then send back your defective inverter. Not to mention my time invested on this! I literally rolled out on New Years' Eve when this inverter's grid relay failed and the inverter would not connect to the grid. And the truck rolls to install the grid relay you sent us (with no torque specs or instructions) also not reimbursed. You've taken about $2,000 from me on this project not to mention the lost goodwill of a longtime customer (we were AC-coupling his existing ground mount and inverters to this Sol-Ark.) I am de-emphasizing Sol-Ark as an inverter solution based on this. I just can't put myself at financial risk to fix your inverters. You have shifted your costs to my balance sheet and that is not right. Adding to my frustration is that I was told by the RMA manager that he'd call me back to see if shipping charged might be alleviated based on the multiple truck rolls and recency of installation. No call back and finally, I recognized that I was not going to do what Sol-Ark did to me and I would not push these costs to the end consumer. I've been installing solar for 13 years. I can't say I've ever had another inverter manufacturer tell my I needed to pay S/H for its defective inverter. Shame on me for not reading the fine print. Please expedite getting this inverter to me as the customer has been out of solar for more time than he has had it with this inverter." Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2026 10:22 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski ; Laura Conchelos Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs Oh boy, does Sol-Ark charge for shipping... The costs for warranty on their inverters are ridiculous, not to mention the $3,000 deposit they require before they advance ship a unit. For this reason, among others, including lack of compensation for their ridiculous diagnostic hoops and replacements, I stopped selling Sol-Ark altogether. They have no idea what damage the service department is doing to their brand. I haven't had to RMA many batteries, but in every case, the costs were covered by the manufacturer (EG4, Tesla, Enphase, HomeGrid, Midnite, etc). Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 11:00 AM Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi all, I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to pay shipping for an RMA before. So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now charging shipping for replacement products? It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? Laura Conchelos Sandhill Solar LLC Monte Vista CO _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Feb 26 13:49:21 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 18:49:21 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You know how I know Sol-Ark doesn't care? Because they absolutely know about this feedback from more than a handful of vocal people, and have done nothing about it. Needing to "grow up" is a great way to put it. I was told by a CS rep once that they were considering an IPO, and the bean counters made them tighten their warranty policies. You know what happens when accountants start running the show... Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 1:42 PM scot.arey at solarcentex.com wrote: > Jason, Sol-Ark warranty...I've never paid S/H and a deposit for fixing any > other brand's defective inverter. I could live with the $3,000 deposit but the > shipping and handling n both directions is salt in the wound. > > > Has been a good product for us but product by itself without good installer > support and manufacturer de-risking leads us to deemphasize this product until > the company grows up and implements better installer support. They should not > pawn off their costs on to my balance sheet! > > >  The incident gives me deja-vu of an incident in 2018 wih another manufacturer > that prompted me to write this essay on LinkedIn: (40) Beware the new > mousetrap (or solar storage system)...a lesson learned from PowerStation247 | > LinkedIn > [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/beware-new-mousetrap-solar-storage-systema-lesson-learned-arey/?trackingId=%2FaRY5bBuQUSjz%2B88d17%2BUA%3D%3D] > > > My email to Sol-Ark a few days ago; no response from anybody in management: > > > "I am writing to express my deep frustration with Sol-Ark warranty support. > > > I just paid $3,465 to replace a defective Sol-Ark 15KW that lasted about one > month on the wall. While I acknowledge I'll get back the $3,000 "deposit" > back, I won't get back the $465 for the shipping labels to receive then send > back your defective inverter. Not to mention my time invested on this! I > literally rolled out on New Years' Eve when this inverter's grid relay failed > and the inverter would not connect to the grid. And the truck rolls to install > the grid relay you sent us (with no torque specs or instructions) also not > reimbursed. You've taken about $2,000 from me on this project not to mention > the lost goodwill of a longtime customer (we were AC-coupling his existing > ground mount and inverters to this Sol-Ark.) > > > I am de-emphasizing Sol-Ark as an inverter solution based on this. I just > can't put myself at financial risk to fix your inverters. You have shifted > your costs to my balance sheet and that is not right.  > > > Adding to my frustration is that I was told by the RMA manager that he'd call > me back to see if shipping charged might be alleviated based on the multiple > truck rolls and recency of installation. No call back and finally, I > recognized that I was not going to do what Sol-Ark did to me and I would not > push these costs to the end consumer. > > > I've been installing solar for 13 years. I can't say I've ever had another > inverter manufacturer tell my I needed to pay S/H for its defective inverter. > Shame on me for not reading the fine print. > > > Please expedite getting this inverter to me as the customer has been out of > solar for more time than he has had it with this inverter." > > > > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > 254-300-1228  > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: RE-wrenches [re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]> on behalf of Jason Szumlanski via > RE-wrenches [re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org]> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2026 10:22 AM > To: RE-wrenches [re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org]> > Cc: Jason Szumlanski [jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com]>; Laura Conchelos < > lauraconchelos at gmail.com [lauraconchelos at gmail.com]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs >   > Oh boy, does Sol-Ark charge for shipping... The costs for warranty on their > inverters are ridiculous, not to mention the $3,000 deposit they require > before they advance ship a unit. For this reason, among others, including lack > of compensation for their ridiculous diagnostic hoops and replacements, I > stopped selling Sol-Ark altogether. They have no idea what damage the service > department is doing to their brand. > > > I haven't had to RMA many batteries, but in every case, the costs were covered > by the manufacturer (EG4, Tesla, Enphase, HomeGrid, Midnite, etc). > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 11:00 AM Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I > > started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the > > replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of > > the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal of > > the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone knows > > of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me know. I > > can haul it up with me next time I go! > > > > > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that > > sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for module replacement. > > But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to pay shipping for an > > RMA before.  > > > > > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > > charging shipping for replacement products?  > > > > > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the > > equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to have > > to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > > > > > Laura Conchelos > > Sandhill Solar LLC > > Monte Vista CO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Feb 26 13:56:48 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 18:56:48 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each level of the supply chain takes a hit.  It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still assist us today. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches wrote: > Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite me — > but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal > experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official > position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. > > I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the old > Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 years) > and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper management > and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if something was > determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the shipping costs > under that warranty. > > One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to > control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a > company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed > properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the > company a black eye.   > > A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live in > urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations — > often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can be > extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the cost of > the product itself. > > The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind our > product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot reasonably > absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s geographic > location. > > That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better > understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting customers > and maintaining financial responsibility. > > At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically piggyback > those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do this at no > additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly to the > customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse to the end > user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. > > > > There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I can get > shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without loading > docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter.   > > Steve Higgins.  > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > > > Bill for everything !    > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > > "we go where powerlines don't" > > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/https://offgridsolar1.com/https://offgridsolar1.com/ http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.netoffgridsolar@sti.net > > text 209 813 0060 > > > > > > > > > > On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I > > > started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the > > > replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top > > > of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the > > > disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If > > > anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please > > > let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > >   > > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that > > > sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > > > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > > > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had > > > to pay shipping for an RMA before.  > > >   > > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > > > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > > > charging shipping for replacement products?  > > >   > > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the > > > equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to > > > have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > >   > > > Laura Conchelos > > > Sandhill Solar LLC > > > Monte Vista CO > > >   > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > > other: > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [http://re-wrenches.org] > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Thu Feb 26 14:34:55 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 12:34:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> Hi Laura; You didn't state how old the batteries were. If its an "out of the box" problem, then I don't even consider that a warranty issue.  The company has an initial obligation to sell you a functioning product, not a big hunk of junk.  That's part of the initial sale; you bought a battery, you should get a battery. Speaking of Rolls, that's why I quit selling their batteries; they sent me a battery that was wired internally backwards, so it had no voltage.  This was a simple quality control issue they should have caught at the factory, but instead they insisted on charging a serious freight charge to correct it.  Never sold their series 5000 stuff again (sorry Steve) so they might have controlled costs, but they lost about a train load worth of sales with me over the years, so I think their internal business calculus was flawed.  I went on to sell HUP batteries (now gone, RIP) and they had what I thought was a very fair warranty policy. For the first year they paid parts, labor, and freight.  For years 2 through 7, they gave full credit, but the dealer paid freight and labor, and years 8 through 10 were prorated, so you got a little credit, but definitely were going to be paying some.  Overall, we rarely used the warranty, but it was fair.  I also recently had a minor issue with Midnite, and they sent a new unit out, at their cost, and I put the old unit in the box and sent it back to them.  Magnum used to be that way too, for "out of the box" or DOA products. The other issue, is that you quickly quit selling products you have trouble with.  I'm considering posting a Good, Bad, and the Ugly list of my experiences with all manus..... Ray Walters Remote Solar On 2/26/2026 8:59 AM, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi all, > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When > I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs > for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, > is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or > for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is > difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries > in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though > that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never > had to pay shipping for an RMA before. > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > charging shipping for replacement products? > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when > the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm > going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > Laura Conchelos > Sandhill Solar LLC > Monte Vista CO > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 15:01:03 2026 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 12:01:03 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> Message-ID: Yes Please!!! A Good, Bad and Ugly list On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 11:41 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Laura; > > You didn't state how old the batteries were. If its an "out of the box" > problem, then I don't even consider that a warranty issue. The company > has an initial obligation to sell you a functioning product, not a big > hunk of junk. That's part of the initial sale; you bought a battery, > you should get a battery. Speaking of Rolls, that's why I quit selling > their batteries; they sent me a battery that was wired internally > backwards, so it had no voltage. This was a simple quality control > issue they should have caught at the factory, but instead they insisted > on charging a serious freight charge to correct it. Never sold their > series 5000 stuff again (sorry Steve) so they might have controlled > costs, but they lost about a train load worth of sales with me over the > years, so I think their internal business calculus was flawed. > > I went on to sell HUP batteries (now gone, RIP) and they had what I > thought was a very fair warranty policy. For the first year they paid > parts, labor, and freight. For years 2 through 7, they gave full > credit, but the dealer paid freight and labor, and years 8 through 10 > were prorated, so you got a little credit, but definitely were going to > be paying some. Overall, we rarely used the warranty, but it was fair. > I also recently had a minor issue with Midnite, and they sent a new unit > out, at their cost, and I put the old unit in the box and sent it back > to them. Magnum used to be that way too, for "out of the box" or DOA > products. > > The other issue, is that you quickly quit selling products you have > trouble with. I'm considering posting a Good, Bad, and the Ugly list of > my experiences with all manus..... > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > > On 2/26/2026 8:59 AM, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When > > I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs > > for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, > > is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or > > for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is > > difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries > > in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though > > that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never > > had to pay shipping for an RMA before. > > > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > > charging shipping for replacement products? > > > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when > > the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm > > going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > > > Laura Conchelos > > Sandhill Solar LLC > > Monte Vista CO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric Inc PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 1116835 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Feb 26 14:44:52 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 14:44:52 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think our industry also needs to acknowledge that warranty promises have long been out of control from both manufacturers and installers. In any industry, long warranty periods can spiral out of control due to competition when newcomers enter the market and offer outlandish warranties to set themselves apart. When I first got involved with solar pool heating about 16 years ago, I struggled with the warranties that were being offered, knowing full well that almost all systems would experience some kind of warranty issue in the 10 to 12 year warranty span that was being offered by manufacturers. From my understanding of history, warranties became a way to compete in an industry where there was very little differentiation between products. It's all just a bunch of black tubes on a roof. I'm oversimplifying that a little bit, but everyone I knew in the industry understood that the warranties were outlandish, and sales people oversold warranties as a regular course of business. Ultimately, I think warranty expense was probably one of the things that put FAFCO out of business. Regardless, that's the risk you take when you offer a warranty. Some companies will do everything in their power to weasel out of their obligation, and some companies will bend over backward in the interest of customer satisfaction. I'll offer a personal anecdote. REC is supposed to have the warranty of all warranties with their protrust program. I have only processed one warranty claim for two panels, but it took several months and a huge amount of badgering for me to get it resolved, and even more badgering to get paid under the program. I'm not a fan of long warranties. I think companies should focus more on high quality products than high quality marketing. Consumers often end up taking out their warranty frustrations on the wrong party, and I think some companies offering warranties know that full well. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026, 2:26 PM Steve Higgins wrote: > Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the frustration. > It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re speaking > with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy decisions. > Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the Secret > Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end users. > > As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations > like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a > profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. > > From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even go > out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended costs. > Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re not > carefully managed. > > One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or at > least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you > live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost > more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone > chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. > > The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront > isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn > some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger > problems down the road. > > It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering > good service — and there’s no perfect answer. > > Steve Higgins > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. >> >> ​I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on >> distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, >> and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each >> level of the supply chain takes a hit. >> >> It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that >> continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who >> had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us >> credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently >> assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company >> truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on >> more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the >> failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still >> assist us today. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite >>> me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal >>> experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official >>> position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. >>> >>> I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the >>> old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 >>> years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper >>> management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if >>> something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the >>> shipping costs under that warranty. >>> >>> One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to >>> control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a >>> company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed >>> properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the >>> company a black eye. >>> >>> A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not >>> live in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote >>> locations — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these >>> areas can be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can >>> rival the cost of the product itself. >>> >>> The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind >>> our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot >>> reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s >>> geographic location. >>> >>> That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to >>> better understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting >>> customers and maintaining financial responsibility. >>> >>> At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically >>> piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do >>> this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly >>> to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse >>> to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. >>> >>> There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I >>> can get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without >>> loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. >>> >>> Steve Higgins. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>> RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>>> Bill for everything ! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>>> https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>>> e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net >>>> text 209 813 0060* >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When >>>> I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for >>>> the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on >>>> top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the >>>> disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If >>>> anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please >>>> let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! >>>> >>>> I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though >>>> that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for >>>> inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for >>>> module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to >>>> pay shipping for an RMA before. >>>> >>>> So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing >>>> equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now >>>> charging shipping for replacement products? >>>> >>>> It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when >>>> the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to >>>> have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? >>>> >>>> Laura Conchelos >>>> Sandhill Solar LLC >>>> Monte Vista CO >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Thu Feb 26 14:26:36 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 11:26:36 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the frustration. It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re speaking with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy decisions. Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the Secret Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end users. As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. >From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even go out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended costs. Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re not carefully managed. One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or at least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger problems down the road. It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering good service — and there’s no perfect answer. Steve Higgins On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. > > ​I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on > distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, > and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each > level of the supply chain takes a hit. > > It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that > continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who > had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us > credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently > assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company > truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on > more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the > failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still > assist us today. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite >> me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal >> experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official >> position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. >> >> I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the >> old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 >> years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper >> management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if >> something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the >> shipping costs under that warranty. >> >> One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to >> control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a >> company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed >> properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the >> company a black eye. >> >> A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live >> in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations >> — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can >> be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the >> cost of the product itself. >> >> The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind >> our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot >> reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s >> geographic location. >> >> That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better >> understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting >> customers and maintaining financial responsibility. >> >> At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically >> piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do >> this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly >> to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse >> to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. >> >> There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I >> can get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without >> loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. >> >> Steve Higgins. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >> RE-wrenches wrote: >> >>> Bill for everything ! >>> >>> >>> >>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>> https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>> e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net >>> text 209 813 0060* >>> >>> >>> On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I >>> started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the >>> replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of >>> the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal >>> of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone >>> knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me >>> know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! >>> >>> I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though >>> that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for >>> inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for >>> module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to >>> pay shipping for an RMA before. >>> >>> So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing >>> equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now >>> charging shipping for replacement products? >>> >>> It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the >>> equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to >>> have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? >>> >>> Laura Conchelos >>> Sandhill Solar LLC >>> Monte Vista CO >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Thu Feb 26 15:34:54 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 13:34:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> Message-ID: What I think we need is a Wrenches Vote list; a compiled list of all the products, and manus we use, and all of our combined experiences.  Each of us individually is probably not enough buying power to be a blip on the radar screen, but all of us combined is a force to be reckoned with.  Each of us are confirmed installers, or we are not on the RE Wrenches.  That means we each get a vote to rate these products, and we should be able to vote anonymously to avoid fear of reprisals from manus. What do you think oh grand poobah list administrator, Michael Welch?  I would start the product/ manufacturer list.  I'm not saying a separate email list, just a compiled list of products that would live on RE Wrenches area. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 2/26/2026 1:01 PM, Michael Morningstar wrote: > Yes Please!!! A Good, Bad and Ugly list > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 11:41 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi Laura; > > You didn't state how old the batteries were. If its an "out of the > box" > problem, then I don't even consider that a warranty issue. The > company > has an initial obligation to sell you a functioning product, not a > big > hunk of junk.  That's part of the initial sale; you bought a battery, > you should get a battery. Speaking of Rolls, that's why I quit > selling > their batteries; they sent me a battery that was wired internally > backwards, so it had no voltage.  This was a simple quality control > issue they should have caught at the factory, but instead they > insisted > on charging a serious freight charge to correct it.  Never sold their > series 5000 stuff again (sorry Steve) so they might have controlled > costs, but they lost about a train load worth of sales with me > over the > years, so I think their internal business calculus was flawed. > >   I went on to sell HUP batteries (now gone, RIP) and they had what I > thought was a very fair warranty policy. For the first year they paid > parts, labor, and freight.  For years 2 through 7, they gave full > credit, but the dealer paid freight and labor, and years 8 through 10 > were prorated, so you got a little credit, but definitely were > going to > be paying some.  Overall, we rarely used the warranty, but it was > fair. > I also recently had a minor issue with Midnite, and they sent a > new unit > out, at their cost, and I put the old unit in the box and sent it > back > to them.  Magnum used to be that way too, for "out of the box" or DOA > products. > > The other issue, is that you quickly quit selling products you have > trouble with.  I'm considering posting a Good, Bad, and the Ugly > list of > my experiences with all manus..... > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > > On 2/26/2026 8:59 AM, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under > warranty. When > > I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping > costs > > for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of > course, > > is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my > labor or > > for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so > disposal is > > difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium > batteries > > in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next > time I go! > > > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. > though > > that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've > never > > had to pay shipping for an RMA before. > > > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was > now > > charging shipping for replacement products? > > > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer > when > > the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm > > going to have to build into the initial install going forward. > Thoughts? > > > > Laura Conchelos > > Sandhill Solar LLC > > Monte Vista CO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Feb 26 15:32:09 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 15:32:09 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> Message-ID: Oooh. I'm getting the popcorn out right now. This should be awesome! 😂 In all seriousness, it's great that we have forums where we can express honest manufacturer grievances among true professionals (not in a Facebook rant style). Aside from being useful information for installers, manufacturers have the opportunity to listen and react. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026, 3:09 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Yes Please!!! A Good, Bad and Ugly list > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 11:41 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Laura; >> >> You didn't state how old the batteries were. If its an "out of the box" >> problem, then I don't even consider that a warranty issue. The company >> has an initial obligation to sell you a functioning product, not a big >> hunk of junk. That's part of the initial sale; you bought a battery, >> you should get a battery. Speaking of Rolls, that's why I quit selling >> their batteries; they sent me a battery that was wired internally >> backwards, so it had no voltage. This was a simple quality control >> issue they should have caught at the factory, but instead they insisted >> on charging a serious freight charge to correct it. Never sold their >> series 5000 stuff again (sorry Steve) so they might have controlled >> costs, but they lost about a train load worth of sales with me over the >> years, so I think their internal business calculus was flawed. >> >> I went on to sell HUP batteries (now gone, RIP) and they had what I >> thought was a very fair warranty policy. For the first year they paid >> parts, labor, and freight. For years 2 through 7, they gave full >> credit, but the dealer paid freight and labor, and years 8 through 10 >> were prorated, so you got a little credit, but definitely were going to >> be paying some. Overall, we rarely used the warranty, but it was fair. >> I also recently had a minor issue with Midnite, and they sent a new unit >> out, at their cost, and I put the old unit in the box and sent it back >> to them. Magnum used to be that way too, for "out of the box" or DOA >> products. >> >> The other issue, is that you quickly quit selling products you have >> trouble with. I'm considering posting a Good, Bad, and the Ugly list of >> my experiences with all manus..... >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> >> >> On 2/26/2026 8:59 AM, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When >> > I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs >> > for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, >> > is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or >> > for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is >> > difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries >> > in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! >> > >> > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though >> > that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for >> > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for >> > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never >> > had to pay shipping for an RMA before. >> > >> > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing >> > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now >> > charging shipping for replacement products? >> > >> > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when >> > the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm >> > going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? >> > >> > Laura Conchelos >> > Sandhill Solar LLC >> > Monte Vista CO >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Thu Feb 26 17:21:27 2026 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 14:21:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> Message-ID: <1772144575964.1f5645fb106c6668@re-wrenches.org> Various thoughts: I like any idea that would make things better for Wrenches and the industry as a whole. That's been a major thing for me since my early days at Home Power. I don't think I could ride herd on this, but I'd be pleased to help grease the skids. I can see using one of the many free polling sites out there to gather the info and comments. Oh how I wish that the old IPP was up and running. This would be a perfect project for an organization of Wrenches. A concern would be hundreds of responses on the list. Some of you already think the list traffic is too heavy. Maybe it DOES make sense to use a separate list. That way you all could choose to participate or not. The RE-Bitching list already exists and might be the best place to do this. Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote at 12:34 PM 2/26/2026: >What I think we need is a Wrenches Vote list; a compiled list of all the products, and manus we use, and all of our combined experiences. Each of us individually is probably not enough buying power to be a blip on the radar screen, but all of us combined is a force to be reckoned with. Each of us are confirmed installers, or we are not on the RE Wrenches. That means we each get a vote to rate these products, and we should be able to vote anonymously to avoid fear of reprisals from manus. > >What do you think oh grand poobah list administrator, Michael Welch? I would start the product/ manufacturer list. I'm not saying a separate email list, just a compiled list of products that would live on RE Wrenches area. From ray at solarray.com Thu Feb 26 18:10:29 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2026 16:10:29 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <1772144575964.1f5645fb106c6668@re-wrenches.org> References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> <1772144575964.1f5645fb106c6668@re-wrenches.org> Message-ID: <9c8195e0-5c0b-4517-bb7a-3c4a1d085975@solarray.com> I was thinking it would just be a list, we'd all upload our reviews, but it wouldn't be separate emails pinging the IN box every time someone gave a rating.   It would just be available when anyone wanted to look at reviews of the products. Is that the sort of thing that might need to be on a separate server?  I've wanted to do a comprehensive product review list for a long time. Ray On 2/26/2026 3:21 PM, Michael Welch via RE-wrenches wrote: > Various thoughts: > > I like any idea that would make things better for Wrenches and the industry as a whole. That's been a major thing for me since my early days at Home Power. > > I don't think I could ride herd on this, but I'd be pleased to help grease the skids. > > I can see using one of the many free polling sites out there to gather the info and comments. > > Oh how I wish that the old IPP was up and running. This would be a perfect project for an organization of Wrenches. > > A concern would be hundreds of responses on the list. Some of you already think the list traffic is too heavy. > > Maybe it DOES make sense to use a separate list. That way you all could choose to participate or not. The RE-Bitching list already exists and might be the best place to do this. > > Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote at 12:34 PM 2/26/2026: > >> What I think we need is a Wrenches Vote list; a compiled list of all the products, and manus we use, and all of our combined experiences. Each of us individually is probably not enough buying power to be a blip on the radar screen, but all of us combined is a force to be reckoned with. Each of us are confirmed installers, or we are not on the RE Wrenches. That means we each get a vote to rate these products, and we should be able to vote anonymously to avoid fear of reprisals from manus. >> >> What do you think oh grand poobah list administrator, Michael Welch? I would start the product/ manufacturer list. I'm not saying a separate email list, just a compiled list of products that would live on RE Wrenches area. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Feb 27 07:47:09 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 07:47:09 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <9c8195e0-5c0b-4517-bb7a-3c4a1d085975@solarray.com> References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> <1772144575964.1f5645fb106c6668@re-wrenches.org> <9c8195e0-5c0b-4517-bb7a-3c4a1d085975@solarray.com> Message-ID: Maybe just a Google Form survey??? Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 6:11 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I was thinking it would just be a list, we'd all upload our reviews, but > it wouldn't be separate emails pinging the IN box every time someone > gave a rating. It would just be available when anyone wanted to look > at reviews of the products. > > Is that the sort of thing that might need to be on a separate server? > I've wanted to do a comprehensive product review list for a long time. > > Ray > > On 2/26/2026 3:21 PM, Michael Welch via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Various thoughts: > > > > I like any idea that would make things better for Wrenches and the > industry as a whole. That's been a major thing for me since my early days > at Home Power. > > > > I don't think I could ride herd on this, but I'd be pleased to help > grease the skids. > > > > I can see using one of the many free polling sites out there to gather > the info and comments. > > > > Oh how I wish that the old IPP was up and running. This would be a > perfect project for an organization of Wrenches. > > > > A concern would be hundreds of responses on the list. Some of you > already think the list traffic is too heavy. > > > > Maybe it DOES make sense to use a separate list. That way you all could > choose to participate or not. The RE-Bitching list already exists and might > be the best place to do this. > > > > Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote at 12:34 PM 2/26/2026: > > > >> What I think we need is a Wrenches Vote list; a compiled list of all > the products, and manus we use, and all of our combined experiences. Each > of us individually is probably not enough buying power to be a blip on the > radar screen, but all of us combined is a force to be reckoned with. Each > of us are confirmed installers, or we are not on the RE Wrenches. That > means we each get a vote to rate these products, and we should be able to > vote anonymously to avoid fear of reprisals from manus. > >> > >> What do you think oh grand poobah list administrator, Michael Welch? I > would start the product/ manufacturer list. I'm not saying a separate > email list, just a compiled list of products that would live on RE Wrenches > area. > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Feb 27 16:54:42 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 21:54:42 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" Message-ID: COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for conduit where they need to be from original installation. "I'll get you my supervisor." Supervisor George calls back, tells me he used to work in the field like me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" Well, as this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at very least I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my existing gutter conduit will not work." "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this tight and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me to not only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new gutter box layout, we have real problems. Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you guys reading this forum? Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:4f66cfed-ab51-44b9-835e-4606865e83e4] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 18:08:48 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 16:08:48 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37E969AC-4AF2-470F-9BB9-792811527C07@gmail.com> That is just not acceptable, full stop. First off it should be a new unit as it’s just 1 month old. Does beg the question like with the lithium battery of a few days ago, when is the warranty replacement a new unit and at what point in the warranty does it change to a refurbished one? 2nd this gets back to poor design that the bottom isn’t replaceable without rebuilding the whole unit. 3 no they don’t care and it’s why I’ve never sold them. 4 a solution would be to have pieces of metal, same thickness, coating etc that just screw onto the sides, back, bottom. Then repunch the holes where you want and it looks like new. I mean how hard is that? Sorry and good luck I will say that eg4 has been great with the only inverter they couldn’t identify the issue they sent out at their expense a new unit and prepaid return shipping. Jay > On Feb 27, 2026, at 3:21 PM, scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. > > So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. > > Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for conduit where they need to be from original installation. > > "I'll get you my supervisor." > > Supervisor George calls back, tells me he used to work in the field like me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" Well, as this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at very least I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my existing gutter conduit will not work." > > "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. > > Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this tight and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me to not only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new gutter box layout, we have real problems. > > Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you guys reading this forum? > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 19:32:55 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 16:32:55 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches, Scot. When you say all the knockout were removed, or do you mean that "other" holes were punched in the bottom besides or in lew of the factory knock outs. Fun times On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 2:21 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. > > So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box > at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. > > Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." > OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for > conduit where they need to be from original installation. > > "I'll get you my supervisor." > > Supervisor George calls back, tells me he *used to work in the field* > like me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" > Well, as this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at > very least I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my > existing gutter conduit will not work." > > "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if > you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it > seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. > > Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this tight > and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me to not > only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new gutter > box layout, we have real problems. > > Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you > guys reading this forum? > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 19:34:17 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 16:34:17 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" References: Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 4:32 PM Jerry Shafer wrote: > Wrenches, Scot. > When you say all the knockout were removed, or do you mean that "other" > holes were punched in the bottom besides or in lew of the factory knock > outs. > Fun times > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 2:21 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. >> >> So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box >> at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. >> >> Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." >> OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for >> conduit where they need to be from original installation. >> >> "I'll get you my supervisor." >> >> Supervisor George calls back, tells me he *used to work in the field* >> like me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" >> Well, as this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at >> very least I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my >> existing gutter conduit will not work." >> >> "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if >> you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it >> seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. >> >> Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this >> tight and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me >> to not only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new >> gutter box layout, we have real problems. >> >> Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you >> guys reading this forum? >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Feb 27 19:57:21 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (Howard Scot Arey) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 18:57:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 00:11:29 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 19:11:29 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, As much as I like and support Sol-Ark, I’m willing to admit that their RMA process is lacking. Sending beat up replacement units is not a new strategy. I remember receiving 12K indoor replacement a few years ago that had all pre-fabricated KO’s missing, was badly scratched, and just looked downright beat up. The customer was hawking over my shoulder and I had to eventually admit that I agreed with their concerned and repulsed facial expressions. As the contractor that talked up the inverter system at point of proposal, I felt embarrassed. Luckily, I have not had to replace many Sol-Ark inverters, but I’m not charging customer for shipping and handling fees, and taking RMA swap losses on the chin. In a perfect world, Sol-Ark would respect the installer just a whisker more. On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 3:40 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one > before. But I will. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jerry Shafer > *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2026 6:47:51 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to > mount a new gutter box" > > Wrenches, Scot. > When you say all the knockout were removed, or do you mean that "other" > holes were punched in the bottom besides or in lew of the factory knock > outs. > Fun times > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 2:21 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. > > So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box > at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. > > Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." > OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for > conduit where they need to be from original installation. > > "I'll get you my supervisor." > > Supervisor George calls back, tells me he *used to work in the field* like > me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" Well, as > this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at very least > I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my existing > gutter conduit will not work." > > "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if > you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it > seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. > > Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this tight > and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me to not > only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new gutter > box layout, we have real problems. > > Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you > guys reading this forum? > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Feb 28 01:22:21 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 22:22:21 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <482df739d5ac0a90c7db5a30c20c4ce6@mail.gmail.com> Steve: If the warranty claim is valid, it is assumed the problem is with the product, not the installation. Why then should the installer get stuck with shipping and labor costs? Yeah it sucks when a manufacturer is held accountable for a defect, but it also sucks when you lose client base for being parsimonious. William Miller William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2026 11:27 AM *To:* Jason Szumlanski *Cc:* Steve Higgins; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the frustration. It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re speaking with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy decisions. Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the Secret Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end users. As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. >From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even go out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended costs. Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re not carefully managed. One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or at least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger problems down the road. It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering good service — and there’s no perfect answer. Steve Higgins On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. ​I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each level of the supply chain takes a hit. It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still assist us today. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the shipping costs under that warranty. One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the company a black eye. A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the cost of the product itself. The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s geographic location. That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting customers and maintaining financial responsibility. At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I can get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. Steve Higgins. On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: Bill for everything ! *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* *"we go where powerlines don't"* * https://offgridsolar1.com/ * *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net * *text 209 813 0060* On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi all, I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to pay shipping for an RMA before. So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now charging shipping for replacement products? It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? Laura Conchelos Sandhill Solar LLC Monte Vista CO _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at greenwired.com Fri Feb 27 19:52:42 2026 From: andrew at greenwired.com (Andrew Perkins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 16:52:42 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> <1772144575964.1f5645fb106c6668@re-wrenches.org> <9c8195e0-5c0b-4517-bb7a-3c4a1d085975@solarray.com> Message-ID: <19ca1bbc25f.7cfafb12559363.398531964915764143@greenwired.com> My first message failed to send for some reason but here you go. Ask you shall receive!  Google form link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdTTBKkHSf6sR0d9YxgSL-1uuZwpuY0VNJFwDt0SIt0lr0vNg/viewform?usp=publish-editor Google sheet responses: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zE3ZKmEN96xTsRSB735FVPCPMdlnAq4cdTYVKKehfsc/edit?usp=sharing Open for suggestions.  Andrew Perkins Greenwired Purchasing Manger | Technical sales P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100 M: 707-932-5595 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd P.O. Box 1686 Redway, CA 95560 http://www.greenwired.com From: Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches To: "RE-wrenches" Cc: "Jason Szumlanski" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 04:47:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs Maybe just a Google Form survey??? Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 6:11 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > wrote: _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org I was thinking it would just be a list, we'd all upload our reviews, but it wouldn't be separate emails pinging the IN box every time someone gave a rating.   It would just be available when anyone wanted to look at reviews of the products. Is that the sort of thing that might need to be on a separate server?  I've wanted to do a comprehensive product review list for a long time. Ray On 2/26/2026 3:21 PM, Michael Welch via RE-wrenches wrote: > Various thoughts: > > I like any idea that would make things better for Wrenches and the industry as a whole. That's been a major thing for me since my early days at Home Power. > > I don't think I could ride herd on this, but I'd be pleased to help grease the skids. > > I can see using one of the many free polling sites out there to gather the info and comments. > > Oh how I wish that the old IPP was up and running. This would be a perfect project for an organization of Wrenches. > > A concern would be hundreds of responses on the list. Some of you already think the list traffic is too heavy. > > Maybe it DOES make sense to use a separate list. That way you all could choose to participate or not. The RE-Bitching list already exists and might be the best place to do this. > > Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote at 12:34 PM 2/26/2026: >    >> What I think we need is a Wrenches Vote list; a compiled list of all the products, and manus we use, and all of our combined experiences.  Each of us individually is probably not enough buying power to be a blip on the radar screen, but all of us combined is a force to be reckoned with.  Each of us are confirmed installers, or we are not on the RE Wrenches. That means we each get a vote to rate these products, and we should be able to vote anonymously to avoid fear of reprisals from manus. >> >> What do you think oh grand poobah list administrator, Michael Welch?  I would start the product/ manufacturer list.  I'm not saying a separate email list, just a compiled list of products that would live on RE Wrenches area. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GreenWired_-_Badge_Logo_-_Color_1.png Type: image/png Size: 111621 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 08:27:10 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 06:27:10 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <19ca1bbc25f.7cfafb12559363.398531964915764143@greenwired.com> References: <19ca1bbc25f.7cfafb12559363.398531964915764143@greenwired.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at greenwired.com Fri Feb 27 18:39:30 2026 From: andrew at greenwired.com (Andrew Perkins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 15:39:30 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <2963208a-7435-4152-ad69-633b4db415e7@solarray.com> <1772144575964.1f5645fb106c6668@re-wrenches.org> <9c8195e0-5c0b-4517-bb7a-3c4a1d085975@solarray.com> Message-ID: <19ca178bd12.66d8ec9d549928.1049407662948561605@greenwired.com> Ask you shall receive!  Google form link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdTTBKkHSf6sR0d9YxgSL-1uuZwpuY0VNJFwDt0SIt0lr0vNg/viewform?usp=publish-editor Google sheet responses: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zE3ZKmEN96xTsRSB735FVPCPMdlnAq4cdTYVKKehfsc/edit?usp=sharing Open for suggestions.  Andrew Perkins Greenwired Purchasing Manger | Technical sales P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100 M: 707-932-5595 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd P.O. Box 1686 Redway, CA 95560 http://www.greenwired.com From: Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches To: "RE-wrenches" Cc: "Jason Szumlanski" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2026 04:47:09 -0800 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs Maybe just a Google Form survey??? Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 6:11 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > wrote: _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org I was thinking it would just be a list, we'd all upload our reviews, but it wouldn't be separate emails pinging the IN box every time someone gave a rating.   It would just be available when anyone wanted to look at reviews of the products. Is that the sort of thing that might need to be on a separate server?  I've wanted to do a comprehensive product review list for a long time. Ray On 2/26/2026 3:21 PM, Michael Welch via RE-wrenches wrote: > Various thoughts: > > I like any idea that would make things better for Wrenches and the industry as a whole. That's been a major thing for me since my early days at Home Power. > > I don't think I could ride herd on this, but I'd be pleased to help grease the skids. > > I can see using one of the many free polling sites out there to gather the info and comments. > > Oh how I wish that the old IPP was up and running. This would be a perfect project for an organization of Wrenches. > > A concern would be hundreds of responses on the list. Some of you already think the list traffic is too heavy. > > Maybe it DOES make sense to use a separate list. That way you all could choose to participate or not. The RE-Bitching list already exists and might be the best place to do this. > > Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote at 12:34 PM 2/26/2026: >    >> What I think we need is a Wrenches Vote list; a compiled list of all the products, and manus we use, and all of our combined experiences.  Each of us individually is probably not enough buying power to be a blip on the radar screen, but all of us combined is a force to be reckoned with.  Each of us are confirmed installers, or we are not on the RE Wrenches. That means we each get a vote to rate these products, and we should be able to vote anonymously to avoid fear of reprisals from manus. >> >> What do you think oh grand poobah list administrator, Michael Welch?  I would start the product/ manufacturer list.  I'm not saying a separate email list, just a compiled list of products that would live on RE Wrenches area. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GreenWired_-_Badge_Logo_-_Color_1.png Type: image/png Size: 111621 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Sat Feb 28 12:03:07 2026 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 11:03:07 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback IN AC Current Too High Message-ID: Hello fellow wrenches, I have a legacy grid tied outback system that is throwing an IN AC Current Too High error followed by an IN AC Current OK message very regularly. I recently replaced the dead FX3648 with a new VFXR3648A. The original system installer did not install a Mate. The new inverter said that it required a Mate3S. I was unable to source a new one at installation time (backordered), so I put in a used Mate3S that I had on the shelf. I found an old thread on the Outback User Forum from 2012 that mentions this issue, but it didn't seem to indicate a definitive solution. It suggested that it was potentially a firmware issue. I had the client try to ACK ALL in the events menu, but the inverter still showed a red error light along with the repetitive error beeping. I also had the client verify that the Grid Input AC Limit matched the Grid Input breaker size (50 A). This site is 2 hours drive and I am waiting on Wattsun engineering to provide a replacement azimuth motor solution for the tracker. I would like to have a solution to this inverter issue in my back pocket when I make the trip to replace the tracker motor. Anyone know the current state of Outback Tech Support? Any help is greatly appreciated, Kris Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 W 1st Ave Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 12:12:33 2026 From: lucchesesolar at gmail.com (Nick Lucchese) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 09:12:33 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Scot and any others considering EG4, Strongly consider taking this migration choice of equipment to a manufacturer that has supported us for decades, Midnite Solar/Power. The AIO has been great for many of us and keeps getting better all the time. I understand some of you are not bothered by the behemoth known as EG4/Signature and their Outback ownership but as a group of longtime Wrenches we need to acknowledge their efforts of undermining the decades of systems we've installed meticulously on thousands of important households across the continent. Sending rebuildable equipment to e-waste is not and has never been acceptable nor is the argument that open loop communications is prone to more problems than close loop. Think wisely before you hand your future liabilities to a company that is undermining your legacy. For well over 20 years Midnite Solar and everyone involved with the company has never let many of us down and Midnite Power is following in the footsteps. I understand that manufacturers cannot indefinitely commit the resources to keep a product alive. Not only can I no longer find most board replacements for legacy VFX inverters but Showalter's handling of everything Outback might be the most disrespectful things anyone in our industry has ever done to our decades of work. Nick Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches Feb 27, 2026, 5:38 PM (14 hours ago) to *Howard*, Jerry, RE-wrenches Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one before. But I will. *Howard "Scot" Arey* *Owner, Solar CenTex* NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 5:38 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one > before. But I will. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jerry Shafer > *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2026 6:47:51 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to > mount a new gutter box" > > Wrenches, Scot. > When you say all the knockout were removed, or do you mean that "other" > holes were punched in the bottom besides or in lew of the factory knock > outs. > Fun times > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 2:21 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. > > So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box > at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. > > Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." > OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for > conduit where they need to be from original installation. > > "I'll get you my supervisor." > > Supervisor George calls back, tells me he *used to work in the field* like > me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" Well, as > this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at very least > I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my existing > gutter conduit will not work." > > "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if > you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it > seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. > > Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this tight > and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me to not > only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new gutter > box layout, we have real problems. > > Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you > guys reading this forum? > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 12:28:58 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 09:28:58 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ive had good luck with Zonna as a source for legacy boards... though new g/vfx fet boards may be getting scarce.. On Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:20 AM Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Scot and any others considering EG4, > > Strongly consider taking this migration choice of equipment to a > manufacturer that has supported us for decades, Midnite Solar/Power. The > AIO has been great for many of us and keeps getting better all the time. I > understand some of you are not bothered by the behemoth known as > EG4/Signature and their Outback ownership but as a group > of longtime Wrenches we need to acknowledge their efforts of undermining > the decades of systems we've installed meticulously on thousands of > important households across the continent. Sending rebuildable equipment to > e-waste is not and has never been acceptable nor is the argument that open > loop communications is prone to more problems than close loop. Think wisely > before you hand your future liabilities to a company that is undermining > your legacy. For well over 20 years Midnite Solar and everyone involved > with the company has never let many of us down and Midnite Power is > following in the footsteps. > > I understand that manufacturers cannot indefinitely commit the resources > to keep a product alive. Not only can I no longer find most board > replacements for legacy VFX inverters but Showalter's handling of > everything Outback might be the most disrespectful things anyone in our > industry has ever done to our decades of work. > > Nick > > > Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > Feb 27, 2026, 5:38 PM (14 hours ago) > to *Howard*, Jerry, RE-wrenches > Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one > before. But I will. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 5:38 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one >> before. But I will. >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jerry Shafer >> *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2026 6:47:51 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need >> to mount a new gutter box" >> >> Wrenches, Scot. >> When you say all the knockout were removed, or do you mean that "other" >> holes were punched in the bottom besides or in lew of the factory knock >> outs. >> Fun times >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 2:21 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. >> >> So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box >> at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. >> >> Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." >> OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for >> conduit where they need to be from original installation. >> >> "I'll get you my supervisor." >> >> Supervisor George calls back, tells me he *used to work in the field* like >> me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" Well, as >> this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at very least >> I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my existing >> gutter conduit will not work." >> >> "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if >> you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it >> seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. >> >> Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this >> tight and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me >> to not only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new >> gutter box layout, we have real problems. >> >> Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you >> guys reading this forum? >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From windsine at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 12:30:09 2026 From: windsine at gmail.com (Roy Rakobitsch) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 11:30:09 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback IN AC Current Too High In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kris, Im guessing your issue may be in relation to high inrush current from loads? Have you tried setting the AC input current limit lower than 50A to experiment? Just a thought. Roy Rakobitsch On Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 11:14 Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello fellow wrenches, > > I have a legacy grid tied outback system that is throwing an IN AC Current > Too High error followed by an IN AC Current OK message very regularly. I > recently replaced the dead FX3648 with a new VFXR3648A. The original > system installer did not install a Mate. The new inverter said that it > required a Mate3S. I was unable to source a new one at installation time > (backordered), so I put in a used Mate3S that I had on the shelf. > > I found an old thread on the Outback User Forum from 2012 that mentions > this issue, but it didn't seem to indicate a definitive solution. It > suggested that it was potentially a firmware issue. I had the client try > to ACK ALL in the events menu, but the inverter still showed a red error > light along with the repetitive error beeping. I also had the client > verify that the Grid Input AC Limit matched the Grid Input breaker size (50 > A). > > This site is 2 hours drive and I am waiting on Wattsun engineering to > provide a replacement azimuth motor solution for the tracker. I would like > to have a solution to this inverter issue in my back pocket when I make the > trip to replace the tracker motor. > > Anyone know the current state of Outback Tech Support? > > Any help is greatly appreciated, > Kris > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 W 1st Ave > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 12:35:09 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 09:35:09 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nick, I absolutely agree regarding Midnite. I have had a great experience with their support and product development and I admittedly got in early on the "bleeding edge" of their new line. I can't speak highly enough of their tech support and engineering team. Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC CCB #204937 LRT #076 541-787-1366 On Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:20 AM Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Scot and any others considering EG4, > > Strongly consider taking this migration choice of equipment to a > manufacturer that has supported us for decades, Midnite Solar/Power. The > AIO has been great for many of us and keeps getting better all the time. I > understand some of you are not bothered by the behemoth known as > EG4/Signature and their Outback ownership but as a group > of longtime Wrenches we need to acknowledge their efforts of undermining > the decades of systems we've installed meticulously on thousands of > important households across the continent. Sending rebuildable equipment to > e-waste is not and has never been acceptable nor is the argument that open > loop communications is prone to more problems than close loop. Think wisely > before you hand your future liabilities to a company that is undermining > your legacy. For well over 20 years Midnite Solar and everyone involved > with the company has never let many of us down and Midnite Power is > following in the footsteps. > > I understand that manufacturers cannot indefinitely commit the resources > to keep a product alive. Not only can I no longer find most board > replacements for legacy VFX inverters but Showalter's handling of > everything Outback might be the most disrespectful things anyone in our > industry has ever done to our decades of work. > > Nick > > > Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > Feb 27, 2026, 5:38 PM (14 hours ago) > to *Howard*, Jerry, RE-wrenches > Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one > before. But I will. > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 5:38 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one >> before. But I will. >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jerry Shafer >> *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2026 6:47:51 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need >> to mount a new gutter box" >> >> Wrenches, Scot. >> When you say all the knockout were removed, or do you mean that "other" >> holes were punched in the bottom besides or in lew of the factory knock >> outs. >> Fun times >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 2:21 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. >> >> So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box >> at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. >> >> Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." >> OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for >> conduit where they need to be from original installation. >> >> "I'll get you my supervisor." >> >> Supervisor George calls back, tells me he *used to work in the field* like >> me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" Well, as >> this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at very least >> I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my existing >> gutter conduit will not work." >> >> "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do if >> you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me it >> seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only option. >> >> Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this >> tight and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me >> to not only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new >> gutter box layout, we have real problems. >> >> Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you >> guys reading this forum? >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 12:35:50 2026 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 12:35:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback IN AC Current Too High In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kris, Outback tech support is still there with Chris who has been with outback a long time and if you hit the chat button, you will also get a live body. I’m planning to continue with Outback products on some of my installs, especially high end unattended off grid systems and grid tie backup. I have customers asking for “as if I am off grid” systems which the Radian in Mini-Grid mode handles nicely. Now that OpticsRE seems to be stabilized, I can offer high quality remote monitoring AND CONTROL John Blittersdorf Offgridvermont.com On Sat, Feb 28, 2026 at 12:14 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello fellow wrenches, > > I have a legacy grid tied outback system that is throwing an IN AC Current > Too High error followed by an IN AC Current OK message very regularly. I > recently replaced the dead FX3648 with a new VFXR3648A. The original > system installer did not install a Mate. The new inverter said that it > required a Mate3S. I was unable to source a new one at installation time > (backordered), so I put in a used Mate3S that I had on the shelf. > > I found an old thread on the Outback User Forum from 2012 that mentions > this issue, but it didn't seem to indicate a definitive solution. It > suggested that it was potentially a firmware issue. I had the client try > to ACK ALL in the events menu, but the inverter still showed a red error > light along with the repetitive error beeping. I also had the client > verify that the Grid Input AC Limit matched the Grid Input breaker size (50 > A). > > This site is 2 hours drive and I am waiting on Wattsun engineering to > provide a replacement azimuth motor solution for the tracker. I would like > to have a solution to this inverter issue in my back pocket when I make the > trip to replace the tracker motor. > > Anyone know the current state of Outback Tech Support? > > Any help is greatly appreciated, > Kris > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 W 1st Ave > > Luck, WI 54853 > > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Sat Feb 28 12:50:10 2026 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 12:50:10 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Word has it that Showalter is going to be at the NABCEP conference in March, I think maybe as a presenter. Bottom line is for all of us attending the conference we should make it known in a professional manner that we need Outback and that what he is doing is a great disservice to us installers and our client base. Christopher On Sat, Feb 28, 2026 at 12:39 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Ive had good luck with Zonna as a source for legacy boards... though new > g/vfx fet boards may be getting scarce.. > > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:20 AM Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Scot and any others considering EG4, >> >> Strongly consider taking this migration choice of equipment to a >> manufacturer that has supported us for decades, Midnite Solar/Power. The >> AIO has been great for many of us and keeps getting better all the time. I >> understand some of you are not bothered by the behemoth known as >> EG4/Signature and their Outback ownership but as a group >> of longtime Wrenches we need to acknowledge their efforts of undermining >> the decades of systems we've installed meticulously on thousands of >> important households across the continent. Sending rebuildable equipment to >> e-waste is not and has never been acceptable nor is the argument that open >> loop communications is prone to more problems than close loop. Think wisely >> before you hand your future liabilities to a company that is undermining >> your legacy. For well over 20 years Midnite Solar and everyone involved >> with the company has never let many of us down and Midnite Power is >> following in the footsteps. >> >> I understand that manufacturers cannot indefinitely commit the resources >> to keep a product alive. Not only can I no longer find most board >> replacements for legacy VFX inverters but Showalter's handling of >> everything Outback might be the most disrespectful things anyone in our >> industry has ever done to our decades of work. >> >> Nick >> >> >> Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches >> Feb 27, 2026, 5:38 PM (14 hours ago) >> to *Howard*, Jerry, RE-wrenches >> Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one >> before. But I will. >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 5:38 PM Howard Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Good to know of the good support from EG4. Have never installed one >>> before. But I will. >>> >>> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >>> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >>> >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> TECL 29755 >>> 254-300-1228 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Jerry Shafer >>> *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2026 6:47:51 PM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need >>> to mount a new gutter box" >>> >>> Wrenches, Scot. >>> When you say all the knockout were removed, or do you mean that "other" >>> holes were punched in the bottom besides or in lew of the factory knock >>> outs. >>> Fun times >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2026, 2:21 PM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY. >>> >>> So I get my RMA Solar-Ark 15 warranty replacement and take it out of box >>> at customer site and the front knockouts all taken out. >>> >>> Call tech support and the tier-1 can't help: "It's a refurbished unit." >>> OK, but I should expect that there is new case so I can set my holes for >>> conduit where they need to be from original installation. >>> >>> "I'll get you my supervisor." >>> >>> Supervisor George calls back, tells me he *used to work in the field* like >>> me, and then says, "Do you expect us to ship you a new inverter?" Well, as >>> this 15KW lasted one month it should have been an option but at very least >>> I need an inverter enclosure with no knockouts punched else my existing >>> gutter conduit will not work." >>> >>> "George - you told me you used to work in the field, what would you do >>> if you go this from a manufacturer as a warranty replacement?" He tells me >>> it seems like the gutter box replacement to fit the KO holes is my only >>> option. >>> >>> Sol-Ark, I used to really love this product but when things get this >>> tight and you're sloughing off refurbed units with KO holes and telling me >>> to not only pay S/H in both directions but the materiel and labor for a new >>> gutter box layout, we have real problems. >>> >>> Where is the Google Form to fill out on the Good/Bad/Ugly? Sol-Ark: you >>> guys reading this forum? >>> >>> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >>> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >>> >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> TECL 29755 >>> 254-300-1228 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-hus3pbc5.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 12:53:58 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 09:53:58 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback IN AC Current Too High In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: First things I would check: 1. Charge current(if its too high the combination of loads and charging could easily explain the problem). If the loads plus charging exceeds the programmed limit for any amount of time it will throw the "AC Current Too High" error. 2. A motor or compressor load on it's way out or in combo with charging. Also consider any heating/resistive load possibly pushing the equipment beyond its surge capabilities.(consider in context of #1 above) 3. A loose connection increasing resistance on the AC(or even the DC) side. 4. Check firmware and or factory reset/reprogram the Mate3s(I would do this anytime I used a previously installed unit on a new system). Consider battery chemistry as well...this may be a relevant factor if replacing lead acid with lithium...less likely to be the culprit but definitely worth thinking about. Hope these ideas help. Feel free to reach out here or off list if I an be of any further assistance! Sunny Regards, Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC CCB #204937 LRT #076 541-787-1366 On Sat, Feb 28, 2026, 9:14 AM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello fellow wrenches, > > I have a legacy grid tied outback system that is throwing an IN AC Current > Too High error followed by an IN AC Current OK message very regularly. I > recently replaced the dead FX3648 with a new VFXR3648A. The original > system installer did not install a Mate. The new inverter said that it > required a Mate3S. I was unable to source a new one at installation time > (backordered), so I put in a used Mate3S that I had on the shelf. > > I found an old thread on the Outback User Forum from 2012 that mentions > this issue, but it didn't seem to indicate a definitive solution. It > suggested that it was potentially a firmware issue. I had the client try > to ACK ALL in the events menu, but the inverter still showed a red error > light along with the repetitive error beeping. I also had the client > verify that the Grid Input AC Limit matched the Grid Input breaker size (50 > A). > > This site is 2 hours drive and I am waiting on Wattsun engineering to > provide a replacement azimuth motor solution for the tracker. I would like > to have a solution to this inverter issue in my back pocket when I make the > trip to replace the tracker motor. > > Anyone know the current state of Outback Tech Support? > > Any help is greatly appreciated, > Kris > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 W 1st Ave > > Luck, WI 54853 > > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 15:19:47 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 13:19:47 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark warranty team: "Guess you'll need to mount a new gutter box" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Im going to ask for some history and clarification here. I understand it to be that Midnitepower is not a part in any way shape or form with midnite solar. It was at one time, but no longer. They have different phone numbers, address, and staff, products etc. And a question about Outback. I seem to remember that the old owners were basically abandoning the company and the guys from EG4 bought it. And when they bought it, the UL listing wasn’t transferrable. So they had to basically set up the company new again. I’m not shilling for them and I don’t think they have done anything close to a good job. But if my memory is correct, then just the basic existence of OB today is only because of the EG4. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong. Jay From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 17:14:04 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 15:14:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback IN AC Current Too High In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Sat Feb 28 19:51:33 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 16:51:33 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <482df739d5ac0a90c7db5a30c20c4ce6@mail.gmail.com> References: <482df739d5ac0a90c7db5a30c20c4ce6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William, I commented on this post to share what I’ve seen over the years from the manufacturing side, particularly when it comes to warranty. It’s important to remember that warranty coverage is intended for manufacturing defects. It’s not meant to be a catch-all solution for damage caused by misuse, neglect, or operating conditions outside the product’s design limits—even though some end users may view it that way. If this truly is a manufacturing defect, then it should be covered. In a perfect world, these situations would always be handled at no cost to the customer. We don’t live in a perfect world, and no matter what company you’re dealing with, the accountants ultimately rule. Most manufacturers do not cover costs such as removal, reinstallation (R&R), or shipping. Those expenses vary widely and can’t be controlled or predicted at the time of manufacture. It’s similar to how companies advertise 15-, 20-, or 25-year warranties, but the list of exclusions often ends up being longer than Al Capone’s rap sheet. And in some segments of the industry, companies don’t even last the full term of the warranties they advertise. Another reality—especially with power electronics—is that a large percentage of returns initially believed to be warranty claims (often 80% or more) ultimately turn out to be non-warranty or “no fault found” situations. A couple of years ago, I worked with an installer and homeowner on a flooded battery bank that was less than two years old. Two of the 2V cells were running hotter than the rest. The remaining cells were also warmer than normal, which led me to suspect they may have been run dry. After discussions with both parties, we replaced two batteries and returned them to the dealer. I later traveled to the site and tore the batteries down to determine the cause of failure. Not only had they been run dry, but they had been run dry multiple times and for extended periods. Despite being told repeatedly by both the installer and homeowner that the batteries had never been run dry, the internal evidence clearly showed otherwise. Just a few months ago, we replaced an S12-200LFP battery for a customer under warranty; it was less than eight months old. When the dealer received the battery, he called to say it was full of seawater. The battery had been installed on a boat; something happened to the vessel, and it sat submerged long enough for water to penetrate the case. And no, these batteries are not submersible. I share these examples not to point fingers, but to illustrate why manufacturers approach warranty claims cautiously. From their perspective, they regularly encounter failures that initially appear to be defects but ultimately trace back to operating conditions, maintenance practices, or environmental exposure. At the end of the day, companies write policies the way they do because they’re trying to manage risk and stay in business. I don’t know of many companies that fully cover R&R and transport costs. There are some, but they generally don’t cover the full amount. Those costs don’t disappear—they’re absorbed somewhere in the system and, much like tariffs, tend to work their way back to the homeowner one way or another. Steve. On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 10:22 PM William Miller wrote: > Steve: > > > > If the warranty claim is valid, it is assumed the problem is with the > product, not the installation. Why then should the installer get stuck > with shipping and labor costs? Yeah it sucks when a manufacturer is held > accountable for a defect, but it also sucks when you lose client base for > being parsimonious. > > > > William Miller > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2026 11:27 AM > *To:* Jason Szumlanski > *Cc:* Steve Higgins; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs > > > > Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the frustration. > It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re speaking > with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy decisions. > Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the Secret > Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end users. > > As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations > like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a > profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. > > From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even go > out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended costs. > Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re not > carefully managed. > > One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or at > least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you > live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost > more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone > chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. > > The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront > isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn > some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger > problems down the road. > > It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering > good service — and there’s no perfect answer. > > Steve Higgins > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > > Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. > > > ​I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on > distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, > and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each > level of the supply chain takes a hit. > > > > It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that > continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who > had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us > credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently > assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company > truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on > more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the > failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still > assist us today. > > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite > me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal > experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official > position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. > > I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the > old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 > years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper > management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if > something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the > shipping costs under that warranty. > > One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to > control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a > company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed > properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the > company a black eye. > > A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live > in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations > — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can > be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the > cost of the product itself. > > The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind > our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot > reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s > geographic location. > > That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better > understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting > customers and maintaining financial responsibility. > > At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically > piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do > this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly > to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse > to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. > > There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I can > get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without > loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. > > Steve Higgins. > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via > RE-wrenches wrote: > > Bill for everything ! > > > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* > > *"we go where powerlines don't"* > > * https://offgridsolar1.com/ * > > *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net * > > *text 209 813 0060* > > > > On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > > I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I > started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the > replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of > the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal > of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone > knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me > know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! > > > > I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that > sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for > inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for > module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to > pay shipping for an RMA before. > > > > So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing > equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now > charging shipping for replacement products? > > > > It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the > equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to > have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? > > > > Laura Conchelos > > Sandhill Solar LLC > > Monte Vista CO > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Feb 28 20:36:06 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 17:36:06 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <482df739d5ac0a90c7db5a30c20c4ce6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Steve: It is very common for users to mistreat batteries. Unless the home owner can provide complete maintenance and daily charging records I refuse to file a claim. If a warranty claim is accepted I assume the case made was valid and included necessary records. At that point the installer and home owner are exonerated. The manufacturer has accepted blame for the failure. Why then should the installer or home owner eat the cost of shipping and replacement labor? They did nothing wrong. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Sat, Feb 28, 2026 at 4:51 PM Steve Higgins wrote: > William, > > I commented on this post to share what I’ve seen over the years from the > manufacturing side, particularly when it comes to warranty. > > It’s important to remember that warranty coverage is intended for > manufacturing defects. It’s not meant to be a catch-all solution for damage > caused by misuse, neglect, or operating conditions outside the product’s > design limits—even though some end users may view it that way. > > If this truly is a manufacturing defect, then it should be covered. In a > perfect world, these situations would always be handled at no cost to the > customer. We don’t live in a perfect world, and no matter what company > you’re dealing with, the accountants ultimately rule. > > Most manufacturers do not cover costs such as removal, reinstallation > (R&R), or shipping. Those expenses vary widely and can’t be controlled or > predicted at the time of manufacture. It’s similar to how companies > advertise 15-, 20-, or 25-year warranties, but the list of exclusions often > ends up being longer than Al Capone’s rap sheet. And in some segments of > the industry, companies don’t even last the full term of the warranties > they advertise. > > Another reality—especially with power electronics—is that a large > percentage of returns initially believed to be warranty claims (often 80% > or more) ultimately turn out to be non-warranty or “no fault found” > situations. > > A couple of years ago, I worked with an installer and homeowner on a > flooded battery bank that was less than two years old. Two of the 2V cells > were running hotter than the rest. The remaining cells were also warmer > than normal, which led me to suspect they may have been run dry. After > discussions with both parties, we replaced two batteries and returned them > to the dealer. I later traveled to the site and tore the batteries down to > determine the cause of failure. Not only had they been run dry, but they > had been run dry multiple times and for extended periods. Despite being > told repeatedly by both the installer and homeowner that the batteries had > never been run dry, the internal evidence clearly showed otherwise. > > Just a few months ago, we replaced an S12-200LFP battery for a customer > under warranty; it was less than eight months old. When the dealer received > the battery, he called to say it was full of seawater. The battery had been > installed on a boat; something happened to the vessel, and it sat submerged > long enough for water to penetrate the case. And no, these batteries are > not submersible. > > I share these examples not to point fingers, but to illustrate why > manufacturers approach warranty claims cautiously. From their perspective, > they regularly encounter failures that initially appear to be defects but > ultimately trace back to operating conditions, maintenance practices, or > environmental exposure. > > At the end of the day, companies write policies the way they do because > they’re trying to manage risk and stay in business. I don’t know of many > companies that fully cover R&R and transport costs. There are some, but > they generally don’t cover the full amount. Those costs don’t > disappear—they’re absorbed somewhere in the system and, much like tariffs, > tend to work their way back to the homeowner one way or another. > > > Steve. > > > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 10:22 PM William Miller > wrote: > >> Steve: >> >> >> >> If the warranty claim is valid, it is assumed the problem is with the >> product, not the installation. Why then should the installer get stuck >> with shipping and labor costs? Yeah it sucks when a manufacturer is held >> accountable for a defect, but it also sucks when you lose client base for >> being parsimonious. >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA License C-10 77398 >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2026 11:27 AM >> *To:* Jason Szumlanski >> *Cc:* Steve Higgins; RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs >> >> >> >> Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the >> frustration. It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re >> speaking with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy >> decisions. Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the >> Secret Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end >> users. >> >> As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations >> like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a >> profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. >> >> From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even >> go out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended >> costs. Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re >> not carefully managed. >> >> One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or >> at least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you >> live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost >> more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone >> chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. >> >> The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront >> isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn >> some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger >> problems down the road. >> >> It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering >> good service — and there’s no perfect answer. >> >> Steve Higgins >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >> Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. >> >> >> ​I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on >> distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, >> and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each >> level of the supply chain takes a hit. >> >> >> >> It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that >> continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who >> had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us >> credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently >> assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company >> truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on >> more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the >> failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still >> assist us today. >> >> >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite >> me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal >> experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official >> position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. >> >> I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the >> old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 >> years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper >> management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if >> something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the >> shipping costs under that warranty. >> >> One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to >> control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a >> company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed >> properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the >> company a black eye. >> >> A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live >> in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations >> — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can >> be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the >> cost of the product itself. >> >> The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind >> our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot >> reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s >> geographic location. >> >> That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better >> understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting >> customers and maintaining financial responsibility. >> >> At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically >> piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do >> this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly >> to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse >> to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. >> >> There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I >> can get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without >> loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. >> >> Steve Higgins. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >> RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Bill for everything ! >> >> >> >> >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* >> >> *"we go where powerlines don't"* >> >> * https://offgridsolar1.com/ * >> >> *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net * >> >> *text 209 813 0060* >> >> >> >> On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I >> started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the >> replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of >> the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal >> of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone >> knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me >> know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! >> >> >> >> I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though >> that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for >> inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for >> module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to >> pay shipping for an RMA before. >> >> >> >> So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing >> equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now >> charging shipping for replacement products? >> >> >> >> It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the >> equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to >> have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? >> >> >> >> Laura Conchelos >> >> Sandhill Solar LLC >> >> Monte Vista CO >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Sat Feb 28 20:56:07 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 17:56:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <482df739d5ac0a90c7db5a30c20c4ce6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi William, I am responding to this thread to offer some insight into how manufacturers typically operate. This approach is fairly standard across many industries and is not isolated to the solar market. Manufacturers generally do not absorb these costs because they cannot control them, and doing so can lead to significant losses. In most cases, they do not cover removal and replacement (R&R) or freight expenses. I know of only a few exceptions, primarily involving module-level grid-tie inverters, and even those rarely cover the full cost. Best regards, Steve On Sat, Feb 28, 2026 at 5:36 PM William Miller wrote: > Steve: > > It is very common for users to mistreat batteries. Unless the home owner > can provide complete maintenance and daily charging records I refuse to > file a claim. > > If a warranty claim is accepted I assume the case made was valid and > included necessary records. At that point the installer and home owner are > exonerated. The manufacturer has accepted blame for the failure. > > Why then should the installer or home owner eat the cost of shipping and > replacement labor? They did nothing wrong. > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2026 at 4:51 PM Steve Higgins wrote: > >> William, >> >> I commented on this post to share what I’ve seen over the years from the >> manufacturing side, particularly when it comes to warranty. >> >> It’s important to remember that warranty coverage is intended for >> manufacturing defects. It’s not meant to be a catch-all solution for damage >> caused by misuse, neglect, or operating conditions outside the product’s >> design limits—even though some end users may view it that way. >> >> If this truly is a manufacturing defect, then it should be covered. In a >> perfect world, these situations would always be handled at no cost to the >> customer. We don’t live in a perfect world, and no matter what company >> you’re dealing with, the accountants ultimately rule. >> >> Most manufacturers do not cover costs such as removal, reinstallation >> (R&R), or shipping. Those expenses vary widely and can’t be controlled or >> predicted at the time of manufacture. It’s similar to how companies >> advertise 15-, 20-, or 25-year warranties, but the list of exclusions often >> ends up being longer than Al Capone’s rap sheet. And in some segments of >> the industry, companies don’t even last the full term of the warranties >> they advertise. >> >> Another reality—especially with power electronics—is that a large >> percentage of returns initially believed to be warranty claims (often 80% >> or more) ultimately turn out to be non-warranty or “no fault found” >> situations. >> >> A couple of years ago, I worked with an installer and homeowner on a >> flooded battery bank that was less than two years old. Two of the 2V cells >> were running hotter than the rest. The remaining cells were also warmer >> than normal, which led me to suspect they may have been run dry. After >> discussions with both parties, we replaced two batteries and returned them >> to the dealer. I later traveled to the site and tore the batteries down to >> determine the cause of failure. Not only had they been run dry, but they >> had been run dry multiple times and for extended periods. Despite being >> told repeatedly by both the installer and homeowner that the batteries had >> never been run dry, the internal evidence clearly showed otherwise. >> >> Just a few months ago, we replaced an S12-200LFP battery for a customer >> under warranty; it was less than eight months old. When the dealer received >> the battery, he called to say it was full of seawater. The battery had been >> installed on a boat; something happened to the vessel, and it sat submerged >> long enough for water to penetrate the case. And no, these batteries are >> not submersible. >> >> I share these examples not to point fingers, but to illustrate why >> manufacturers approach warranty claims cautiously. From their perspective, >> they regularly encounter failures that initially appear to be defects but >> ultimately trace back to operating conditions, maintenance practices, or >> environmental exposure. >> >> At the end of the day, companies write policies the way they do because >> they’re trying to manage risk and stay in business. I don’t know of many >> companies that fully cover R&R and transport costs. There are some, but >> they generally don’t cover the full amount. Those costs don’t >> disappear—they’re absorbed somewhere in the system and, much like tariffs, >> tend to work their way back to the homeowner one way or another. >> >> >> Steve. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 10:22 PM William Miller >> wrote: >> >>> Steve: >>> >>> >>> >>> If the warranty claim is valid, it is assumed the problem is with the >>> product, not the installation. Why then should the installer get stuck >>> with shipping and labor costs? Yeah it sucks when a manufacturer is held >>> accountable for a defect, but it also sucks when you lose client base for >>> being parsimonious. >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA License C-10 77398 >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >>> Behalf Of *Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches >>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2026 11:27 AM >>> *To:* Jason Szumlanski >>> *Cc:* Steve Higgins; RE-wrenches >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs >>> >>> >>> >>> Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the >>> frustration. It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re >>> speaking with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy >>> decisions. Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the >>> Secret Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end >>> users. >>> >>> As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations >>> like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a >>> profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. >>> >>> From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even >>> go out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended >>> costs. Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re >>> not carefully managed. >>> >>> One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or >>> at least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you >>> live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost >>> more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone >>> chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. >>> >>> The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront >>> isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn >>> some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger >>> problems down the road. >>> >>> It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering >>> good service — and there’s no perfect answer. >>> >>> Steve Higgins >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>> Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. >>> >>> >>> ​I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on >>> distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, >>> and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each >>> level of the supply chain takes a hit. >>> >>> >>> >>> It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that >>> continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who >>> had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us >>> credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently >>> assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company >>> truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on >>> more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the >>> failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still >>> assist us today. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite >>> me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal >>> experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official >>> position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. >>> >>> I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the >>> old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 >>> years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper >>> management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if >>> something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the >>> shipping costs under that warranty. >>> >>> One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to >>> control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a >>> company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed >>> properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the >>> company a black eye. >>> >>> A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not >>> live in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote >>> locations — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these >>> areas can be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can >>> rival the cost of the product itself. >>> >>> The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind >>> our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot >>> reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s >>> geographic location. >>> >>> That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to >>> better understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting >>> customers and maintaining financial responsibility. >>> >>> At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically >>> piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do >>> this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly >>> to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse >>> to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. >>> >>> There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I >>> can get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without >>> loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. >>> >>> Steve Higgins. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>> RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>> Bill for everything ! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* >>> >>> *"we go where powerlines don't"* >>> >>> * https://offgridsolar1.com/ * >>> >>> *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net * >>> >>> *text 209 813 0060* >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I >>> started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the >>> replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of >>> the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal >>> of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone >>> knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me >>> know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though >>> that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for >>> inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for >>> module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to >>> pay shipping for an RMA before. >>> >>> >>> >>> So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing >>> equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now >>> charging shipping for replacement products? >>> >>> >>> >>> It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the >>> equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to >>> have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? >>> >>> >>> >>> Laura Conchelos >>> >>> Sandhill Solar LLC >>> >>> Monte Vista CO >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Feb 28 20:56:35 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 17:56:35 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: References: <482df739d5ac0a90c7db5a30c20c4ce6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1dd1e6f11e0adf46869403a6ea7ffb09@mail.gmail.com> BTW, I am not advocating the manufacturer offer a blank check. A compromise would be for a manufacturer to cover non-expedited shipping and offer a token, flat-rate compensation-- maybe $150 or $200. If this were the case, I am much more likely to specify their products in the future. WM Steve: It is very common for users to mistreat batteries. Unless the home owner can provide complete maintenance and daily charging records I refuse to file a claim. If a warranty claim is accepted I assume the case made was valid and included necessary records. At that point the installer and home owner are exonerated. The manufacturer has accepted blame for the failure. Why then should the installer or home owner eat the cost of shipping and replacement labor? They did nothing wrong. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Sat, Feb 28, 2026 at 4:51 PM Steve Higgins wrote: William, I commented on this post to share what I’ve seen over the years from the manufacturing side, particularly when it comes to warranty. It’s important to remember that warranty coverage is intended for manufacturing defects. It’s not meant to be a catch-all solution for damage caused by misuse, neglect, or operating conditions outside the product’s design limits—even though some end users may view it that way. If this truly is a manufacturing defect, then it should be covered. In a perfect world, these situations would always be handled at no cost to the customer. We don’t live in a perfect world, and no matter what company you’re dealing with, the accountants ultimately rule. Most manufacturers do not cover costs such as removal, reinstallation (R&R), or shipping. Those expenses vary widely and can’t be controlled or predicted at the time of manufacture. It’s similar to how companies advertise 15-, 20-, or 25-year warranties, but the list of exclusions often ends up being longer than Al Capone’s rap sheet. And in some segments of the industry, companies don’t even last the full term of the warranties they advertise. Another reality—especially with power electronics—is that a large percentage of returns initially believed to be warranty claims (often 80% or more) ultimately turn out to be non-warranty or “no fault found” situations. A couple of years ago, I worked with an installer and homeowner on a flooded battery bank that was less than two years old. Two of the 2V cells were running hotter than the rest. The remaining cells were also warmer than normal, which led me to suspect they may have been run dry. After discussions with both parties, we replaced two batteries and returned them to the dealer. I later traveled to the site and tore the batteries down to determine the cause of failure. Not only had they been run dry, but they had been run dry multiple times and for extended periods. Despite being told repeatedly by both the installer and homeowner that the batteries had never been run dry, the internal evidence clearly showed otherwise. Just a few months ago, we replaced an S12-200LFP battery for a customer under warranty; it was less than eight months old. When the dealer received the battery, he called to say it was full of seawater. The battery had been installed on a boat; something happened to the vessel, and it sat submerged long enough for water to penetrate the case. And no, these batteries are not submersible. I share these examples not to point fingers, but to illustrate why manufacturers approach warranty claims cautiously. From their perspective, they regularly encounter failures that initially appear to be defects but ultimately trace back to operating conditions, maintenance practices, or environmental exposure. At the end of the day, companies write policies the way they do because they’re trying to manage risk and stay in business. I don’t know of many companies that fully cover R&R and transport costs. There are some, but they generally don’t cover the full amount. Those costs don’t disappear—they’re absorbed somewhere in the system and, much like tariffs, tend to work their way back to the homeowner one way or another. Steve. On Fri, Feb 27, 2026 at 10:22 PM William Miller wrote: Steve: If the warranty claim is valid, it is assumed the problem is with the product, not the installation. Why then should the installer get stuck with shipping and labor costs? Yeah it sucks when a manufacturer is held accountable for a defect, but it also sucks when you lose client base for being parsimonious. William Miller William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2026 11:27 AM *To:* Jason Szumlanski *Cc:* Steve Higgins; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs Having been on both sides of this, I genuinely understand the frustration. It’s also important to remember that many of the people you’re speaking with at manufacturers aren’t the ones making these policy decisions. Sometimes they’ve simply drawn the short straw — and like the Secret Service, they’re the ones taking the hits from installers and end users. As an installer, your customer is usually on your back. When situations like this arise, you’re often the one losing margin. What started as a profitable job can quickly become a break-even or, worse, a loss. >From the manufacturer’s side, I’ve also seen companies struggle or even go out of business because they failed to control unknown or open-ended costs. Freight and field support expenses can escalate quickly if they’re not carefully managed. One of the joys of living off-grid on solar is the peace and quiet — or at least that’s the expectation. But part of that reality is that when you live five hours in the middle of nowhere, some things will simply cost more. Travel, freight, and service calls all carry a premium. If someone chooses to live in a remote location, that premium is part of the equation. The challenge is that having that conversation with a customer upfront isn’t easy. Being transparent about potential additional costs may turn some people away. However, avoiding that discussion can create much bigger problems down the road. It’s a tough balance — protecting your business while still delivering good service — and there’s no perfect answer. Steve Higgins On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 10:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: Steve, I don't know how that can get you anything but praise and respect. ​I think it is completely reasonable to save costs by piggybacking on distributor orders. It all works better when the manufacturer, distributor, and installer work together to satisfy the end user, and sometimes each level of the supply chain takes a hit. It reminds me of a distributor (who we no longer actively use) that continues to process warranty replacements for me for Mission Solar, who had a bad bunch of diodes on modules we received. They would send us credits well after we stopped doing business with them, and diligently assisted us with getting replacement modules. They even sent their company truck 2+ hours away to bring us new panels and pick up the defectives on more than one occasion. Fortunately, I think we have stopped seeing the failed diodes issue, but I am confident that the distributor would still assist us today. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 12:25 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Not that anyone asked for it — and I hope this doesn’t come back to bite me — but here’s a view from the manufacturer’s side. These are my personal experiences based on more than 30 years in the industry, not the official position of Surrette/Rolls Battery. I’ve worked for manufacturers for the majority of my career. Back in the old Trace Engineering days, around 1995, I was fresh out of college (2-3 years) and new to the industry. I remember sitting in a meeting with upper management and asking this exact question. At the time, I believed that if something was determined to be a warranty issue, we should also cover the shipping costs under that warranty. One of the senior managers explained it this way: manufacturers have to control costs carefully. Warranty is often the “red-headed stepchild” of a company — yet it is a necessary part of doing business. If it isn’t managed properly, it can quickly become unsustainable and can definitely give the company a black eye. A significant portion of the customer base in this industry does not live in urban or suburban environments. Many customers live in remote locations — often down a dirt road or in the mountains. Shipping to these areas can be extremely expensive. In some cases, freight costs alone can rival the cost of the product itself. The perspective shared with me was that while we absolutely stand behind our product when there is a legitimate defect, a manufacturer cannot reasonably absorb unlimited shipping costs based solely on a customer’s geographic location. That conversation has stayed with me. Over the years, I’ve come to better understand the balance manufacturers must strike between supporting customers and maintaining financial responsibility. At Surrette, when we process a warranty replacement, we typically piggyback those shipments with normal distributor stocking orders. We do this at no additional charge. However, if a shipment needs to go directly to the customer, or if shipping originates from a distributor’s warehouse to the end user's or installer's site, we do not cover those freight costs. There are exceptions. Usually, for verified out-of-the-box failures, I can get shipping covered under warranty, but shipping to locations without loading docks or down a dirt road is usually a non-starter. Steve Higgins. On Thu, Feb 26, 2026 at 8:50 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: Bill for everything ! *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* *"we go where powerlines don't"* * https://offgridsolar1.com/ * *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net * *text 209 813 0060* On 2026-02-26 7:59 am, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi all, I need to replace a Discover rack-mounted battery under warranty. When I started the RMA process, I was told I'd have to pay shipping costs for the replacement battery, which I found appalling. That, of course, is on top of the fact that they will not pay any cost for my labor or for the disposal of the battery. I'm in a rural area, so disposal is difficult. If anyone knows of a place to dispose of lithium batteries in Denver, please let me know. I can haul it up with me next time I go! I'm not as surprised that Discover is not paying for my labor. though that sucks. It's a fight to get Solaredge to pay for my labor for inverter replacements and I've never been reimbursed for module replacement. But the shipping really surprised me. I've never had to pay shipping for an RMA before. So I'm wondering what costs y'all are having to absorb when RMA-ing equipment these days? A guy at Discover told me that Sol Ark was now charging shipping for replacement products? It feels very bad to have to pass these costs onto the consumer when the equipment they purchased fails, so I guess these are costs I'm going to have to build into the initial install going forward. Thoughts? Laura Conchelos Sandhill Solar LLC Monte Vista CO _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Sat Feb 28 22:03:50 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2026 21:03:50 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover battery RMA costs In-Reply-To: <1dd1e6f11e0adf46869403a6ea7ffb09@mail.gmail.com> References: <1dd1e6f11e0adf46869403a6ea7ffb09@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Mar 5 12:17:29 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2026 12:17:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Non UL 360 kW Battery Charger Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, A client has a 360 kW charger for lithium batteries that power many types large trucks including cement mixers and garbage trucks. The charger is not UL listed. He bought it from a company in China where he has purchased other chargers in the past. He would like to test it for a couple of years to see how it functions, and if it is suitable he will go for the listing. How can he legally hook it up for testing without a listing? Thanks, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 716538a2.png Type: image/png Size: 506108 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Fri Mar 6 11:32:54 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2026 09:32:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I inadvertently did a test on a large bank of FM100's yesterday -- had to shut a bank of 15 of them off for doing some rewiring on the main battery busbars. They were probably out of battery power for 18 hours or so, and overnight so no PV power, before we turned them back on the next afternoon After turning them back on, 10 of the 15 had reset to factory defaults. But not all of them.... Zeke On Mon, Jan 12, 2026 at 3:18 PM Zeke Yewdall wrote: > We did a test on one of them today. FM100 with a Mate3s, no internet > connection. We powered it down (PV breaker and battery breaker) for > about two hours while redoing some battery wiring. After powering it back > up, we checked it, and all of the charge settings had gone back to factory > defaults again. > > Zeke > -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Mar 6 22:29:56 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 03:29:56 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 Message-ID: Read and reply only if you want to stick it to an inspector 🙂 System is 19 modules with Enphase IQ8: NM through attic and he insists it must be guarded or in conduit. His comment back to me on why he failed the inspection and I tried to tell him that the IQ8 output is not a PV source circuit. Good afternoon, I have just read your email and would like to inform you that your code reference is spot on. 690.6 A PV Source Circuit refers to a NRTL Listed assembly and is exclusive to the wiring from the Panel to the Microinverter, it as a listed assembly is not subject to the DC rules of 690.. 690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from the rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, “Circuits over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall Not be accessible to other than qualified persons while energized. The commentary for this code states, Conduit, closed cabinets, or enclosures that require tools to open them are means of limiting access to qualified persons only. These circuits are production and not utilization circuits and therefore must be protected from physical damage and errant tampering. As was noted at Plan Review Dd My proposed response: I have read your reply and believe you have mis-cited code references. You wrote: "690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from the rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, “Circuits over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall Not be accessible to other than qualified persons while energized." 690.6b is here. [cid:1554f576-5063-4098-a38c-3a8291b6699d] 690.7 (D) does not reference "circuits over 150-volts..." but is pasted here. This is a reference to marking of direct current (DC) PV circuits. This does not apply because the inverter output circuit is not a "DC PV Circuit." [cid:5e6c0708-cbd2-4be2-82c4-44f97a1db3d2] ________________________________ The section that almost refers to "PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall Not be accessible" is not in NEC 2023 which is what Temple uses. I have pasted the 2020 language, which is not the language you cite to me, and even that is referring to "PV source and output" circuits and the NEC 2020 definition of "PV source and output" deals with DC. I have pasted and highlighted that definition below. [cid:407b334f-2b4d-4975-8f4a-22d82c45293c] [cid:2f2cd9f6-90e8-4b1e-a1d6-62dbf28e2fd0] [cid:fb85f1f2-2846-4c4a-807c-b3085e9bbe29] So we are left with the fact that an inverter output circuit is alternating current, as defined under NEC 2023. Definition in Section 100: [cid:4bd3f0a1-dd27-4c5b-a5c7-335f132f38cd] We are left with Chapter 3 wiring to address this AC circuit. There is no NEC 2023 reference to "These circuits are production and not utilization circuits and therefore must be protected from physical damage and errant tampering." Simply not in code. If you insist I put the AC wire in conduit, please tell me the requirement. If it's "I just want it in conduit" then just ell me that. But there is little to justify it in NEC 2023. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:f2ce8538-438b-48d0-92e0-1e00d98cc434] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 136049 bytes Desc: image.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1134546 bytes Desc: image.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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City is on NEC 2023 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93c7ad04-98c2-99f2-2f88-ebd2040b004a@floridasolardesigngroup.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment-1.png Type: image/png Size: 116741 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment-2.png Type: image/png Size: 1013034 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment-3.png Type: image/png Size: 451397 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment-4.png Type: image/png Size: 37046 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment-5.png Type: image/png Size: 169625 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment-6.png Type: image/png Size: 373212 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: attachment-7.png Type: image/png Size: 221971 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sat Mar 7 11:16:40 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 08:16:40 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 Message-ID: I think he's having trouble with the definitions of different circuits. Figure 705.1 shows a diagram showing where the inverter output circuit is, which is what he's talking about, not a PV output circuit or a PV source circuit, which is what most of 690 addresses, and are shown in the figures in 690... however it is confusing when they throw in current rating for an inverter output circuit in 690.8. I can't quickly find any references to requirements for inverter output circuits, other than all of the stuff in 705 about interconnecting them. The language about the over 150 volts to ground is from 690.7(D) back in 2011... not sure when they removed it, but it's not in the 2020, 2023, or 2026 books I have handy.... Zeke On Fri, Mar 6, 2026 at 9:07 PM wrote: > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous > lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my > response. City is on NEC 2023 (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 03:29:56 +0000 > From: "scot.arey at solarcentex.com" > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His > comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 > Message-ID: > < > BYAPR02MB4086C40A4CCA00A78023A4C0F27BA at BYAPR02MB4086.namprd02.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Read and reply only if you want to stick it to an inspector ? > > System is 19 modules with Enphase IQ8: NM through attic and he insists it > must be guarded or in conduit. His comment back to me on why he failed the > inspection and I tried to tell him that the IQ8 output is not a PV source > circuit. > > > Good afternoon, I have just read your email and would like to inform you > that your code reference is spot on. 690.6 A PV Source Circuit refers to a > NRTL Listed assembly and is exclusive to the wiring from the Panel to the > Microinverter, it as a listed assembly is not subject to the DC rules of > 690.. 690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from > the rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, > ?Circuits over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live > parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground > Shall Not be accessible to other than qualified persons while energized. > The commentary for this code states, Conduit, closed cabinets, or > enclosures that require tools to open them are means of limiting access to > qualified persons only. These circuits are production and not utilization > circuits and therefore must be protected from physical damage and errant > tampering. As was noted at Plan Review > > Dd > > My proposed response: > > I have read your reply and believe you have mis-cited code references. You > wrote: > > "690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from the > rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, ?Circuits > over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live parts in PV > source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall Not > be accessible to other than qualified persons while energized." > > 690.6b is here. > [cid:1554f576-5063-4098-a38c-3a8291b6699d] > 690.7 (D) does not reference "circuits over 150-volts..." but is pasted > here. This is a reference to marking of direct current (DC) PV circuits. > This does not apply because the inverter output circuit is not a "DC PV > Circuit." > > [cid:5e6c0708-cbd2-4be2-82c4-44f97a1db3d2] > ________________________________ > > > The section that almost refers to "PV output circuits over 150 volts to > ground Shall Not be accessible" is not in NEC 2023 which is what Temple > uses. I have pasted the 2020 language, which is not the language you cite > to me, and even that is referring to "PV source and output" circuits and > the NEC 2020 definition of "PV source and output" deals with DC. I have > pasted and highlighted that definition below. > > [cid:407b334f-2b4d-4975-8f4a-22d82c45293c] > > > > [cid:2f2cd9f6-90e8-4b1e-a1d6-62dbf28e2fd0] > [cid:fb85f1f2-2846-4c4a-807c-b3085e9bbe29] > > > So we are left with the fact that an inverter output circuit is > alternating current, as defined under NEC 2023. Definition in Section 100: > > [cid:4bd3f0a1-dd27-4c5b-a5c7-335f132f38cd] > > > We are left with Chapter 3 wiring to address this AC circuit. There is no > NEC 2023 reference to "These circuits are production and not utilization > circuits and therefore must be protected from physical damage and errant > tampering." Simply not in code. > > If you insist I put the AC wire in conduit, please tell me the > requirement. If it's "I just want it in conduit" then just ell me that. But > there is little to justify it in NEC 2023. > > > > > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > [cid:f2ce8538-438b-48d0-92e0-1e00d98cc434] > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment.htm > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 136049 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment.png > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 1134546 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment-0001.png > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 470202 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment-0002.png > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 46022 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment-0003.png > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 193618 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment-0004.png > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 414241 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment-0005.png > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Outlook-dzzqmyah.png > Type: image/png > Size: 294949 bytes > Desc: Outlook-dzzqmyah.png > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260307/e006f320/attachment-0006.png > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 75 > ******************************************* > -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Sat Mar 7 11:39:14 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 11:39:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90d97684-4139-4a7f-8dbb-7e30284d09df@entech-engineering.com> I'd say you have it covered.  Chris On 3/6/2026 10:29 PM, scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches wrote: > Read and reply only if you want to stick it to an inspector 🙂 > > System is 19 modules with Enphase IQ8: NM through attic and he insists > it must be guarded or in conduit. His comment back to me on why he > failed the inspection and I tried to tell him that the IQ8 output is > not a PV source circuit. > > /Good afternoon,  I have just read your email and would like to inform > you that your code reference is spot on.  690.6 A PV > //Source// Circuit refers to a NRTL  Listed assembly and is exclusive > to the wiring from the Panel to the Microinverter, it as a listed > assembly is not subject to the DC rules of 690..  690.6 b refers to > the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from the rules of 690.7 > Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, “Circuits over 150 > volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live parts in PV > source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall > Not be accessible to other than qualified persons while energized. The > commentary for this code states, Conduit, closed cabinets, or > enclosures that require tools to open them are means of limiting > access to qualified persons only.  These circuits are production and > not utilization circuits and therefore must be protected from physical > damage and errant tampering.  As was noted at Plan Review/ > > /Dd/ > > / > / > My proposed response: > > I have read your reply and believe you have mis-cited code references. > You wrote: > > /"690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from > the rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, > “Circuits over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, > live parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts > to ground Shall Not be accessible to other than qualified persons > while energized."/ > / > / > 690.6b is here. > 690.7 (D) does not reference "circuits over 150-volts..." but is > pasted here. This is a reference to marking of direct current (DC) PV > circuits. This does not apply because the inverter output circuit is > not a "DC PV Circuit." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > The section that almost refers to "/PV output circuits over 150 volts > to ground Shall Not be accessible" /is not in NEC 2023 which is what > Temple uses. I have pasted the 2020 language, which is not the > language you cite to me, and even that is referring to "PV source and > output" circuits and the NEC  2020 definition of "PV source and > output" deals with DC. I have pasted and highlighted that definition > below. > > > > > > > So we are left with the fact that an inverter output circuit is > alternating current, as defined under NEC 2023. Definition in Section 100: > > > We are left with Chapter 3 wiring to address this AC circuit. There is > no NEC 2023 reference to "These circuits are production and not > utilization circuits and therefore must be protected from physical > damage and errant tampering." Simply not in code. > > > If you insist I put the AC wire in conduit, please tell me the > requirement. If it's "I just want it in conduit" then just ell me > that. But there is little to justify it in NEC 2023. > > > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 136049 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1134546 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 470202 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 46022 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 193618 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 414241 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-dzzqmyah.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Sat Mar 7 16:44:48 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 21:44:48 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You have identified a good friction point. A code inspector might say '705, blah blah...690 says it deals with "array circuit (s), inverter (s), and..." ' But I think you are absolutely right to look at 705 for "Wiring Methods." The paragraph (C) covers the Enphase MC cable but it is (A) that says can use wiring methods approved elsewhere in code and that means Chapter 3. Phew... [cid:8d7fa9ec-b3f4-4c6c-9412-823a4dff36b8] Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex 254-300-1228 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2026 10:16 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Zeke Yewdall Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 I think he's having trouble with the definitions of different circuits. Figure 705.1 shows a diagram showing where the inverter output circuit is, which is what he's talking about, not a PV output circuit or a PV source circuit, which is what most of 690 addresses, and are shown in the figures in 690... however it is confusing when they throw in current rating for an inverter output circuit in 690.8. I can't quickly find any references to requirements for inverter output circuits, other than all of the stuff in 705 about interconnecting them. The language about the over 150 volts to ground is from 690.7(D) back in 2011... not sure when they removed it, but it's not in the 2020, 2023, or 2026 books I have handy.... Zeke On Fri, Mar 6, 2026 at 9:07 PM > wrote: Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org You can reach the person managing the list at re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 03:29:56 +0000 From: "scot.arey at solarcentex.com" > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Read and reply only if you want to stick it to an inspector ? System is 19 modules with Enphase IQ8: NM through attic and he insists it must be guarded or in conduit. His comment back to me on why he failed the inspection and I tried to tell him that the IQ8 output is not a PV source circuit. Good afternoon, I have just read your email and would like to inform you that your code reference is spot on. 690.6 A PV Source Circuit refers to a NRTL Listed assembly and is exclusive to the wiring from the Panel to the Microinverter, it as a listed assembly is not subject to the DC rules of 690.. 690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from the rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, ?Circuits over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall Not be accessible to other than qualified persons while energized. The commentary for this code states, Conduit, closed cabinets, or enclosures that require tools to open them are means of limiting access to qualified persons only. These circuits are production and not utilization circuits and therefore must be protected from physical damage and errant tampering. As was noted at Plan Review Dd My proposed response: I have read your reply and believe you have mis-cited code references. You wrote: "690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from the rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, ?Circuits over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall Not be accessible to other than qualified persons while energized." 690.6b is here. [cid:1554f576-5063-4098-a38c-3a8291b6699d] 690.7 (D) does not reference "circuits over 150-volts..." but is pasted here. This is a reference to marking of direct current (DC) PV circuits. This does not apply because the inverter output circuit is not a "DC PV Circuit." [cid:5e6c0708-cbd2-4be2-82c4-44f97a1db3d2] ________________________________ The section that almost refers to "PV output circuits over 150 volts to ground Shall Not be accessible" is not in NEC 2023 which is what Temple uses. I have pasted the 2020 language, which is not the language you cite to me, and even that is referring to "PV source and output" circuits and the NEC 2020 definition of "PV source and output" deals with DC. I have pasted and highlighted that definition below. [cid:407b334f-2b4d-4975-8f4a-22d82c45293c] [cid:2f2cd9f6-90e8-4b1e-a1d6-62dbf28e2fd0] [cid:fb85f1f2-2846-4c4a-807c-b3085e9bbe29] So we are left with the fact that an inverter output circuit is alternating current, as defined under NEC 2023. Definition in Section 100: [cid:4bd3f0a1-dd27-4c5b-a5c7-335f132f38cd] We are left with Chapter 3 wiring to address this AC circuit. There is no NEC 2023 reference to "These circuits are production and not utilization circuits and therefore must be protected from physical damage and errant tampering." Simply not in code. If you insist I put the AC wire in conduit, please tell me the requirement. If it's "I just want it in conduit" then just ell me that. But there is little to justify it in NEC 2023. Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:f2ce8538-438b-48d0-92e0-1e00d98cc434] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 136049 bytes Desc: image.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 1134546 bytes Desc: image.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Outlook-dzzqmyah.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-dzzqmyah.png URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ------------------------------ End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 75 ******************************************* -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 370122 bytes Desc: image.png URL: From mick at abrahamsolar.com Sat Mar 7 19:17:51 2026 From: mick at abrahamsolar.com (Mick Abraham) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 17:17:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Subject: Re: Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 Message-ID: Scot Arey clearly described his inspector problem & various Wrenches have made helpful contributions (as usual for The List). Scot, could the inspector be introduced to the concept of "negative AC loads"? As we know, that describes the AC side of any grid tie inverter. Since "normal loads" are clearly legal for Romex type NM cable in an attic space, negative loads should also be legal. Identical rules of physics apply to both cases. The Wrench List is the Bomb! Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Mar 8 08:38:28 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2026 08:38:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Subject: Re: Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The way I have handled it over the years is to consistently and repeatedly use the term "branch circuit" to describe the combined inverter output circuits. Inspectors tend to understand the basic terminology to describe an AC circuit protected by a standard circuit breaker. Once it clicks that this is just a backfed AC circuit, and the same rules apply as an AC load circuit, the lightbulb goes off, and they back off all of the DC-related stuff in 690. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sat, Mar 7, 2026 at 8:32 PM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Scot Arey clearly described his inspector problem & various Wrenches have > made helpful contributions (as usual for The List). > > Scot, could the inspector be introduced to the concept of "negative AC > loads"? As we know, that describes the AC side of any grid tie inverter. > Since "normal loads" are clearly legal for Romex type NM cable in an attic > space, negative loads should also be legal. > Identical rules of physics apply to both cases. > > The Wrench List is the Bomb! > > Mick Abraham, Proprietor > www.abrahamsolar.com > > Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Mar 8 09:58:11 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2026 09:58:11 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AI tip for Wrenches Message-ID: I wanted to share a tip for using AI to extract from the amazing knowledge base we have accumulated over time. I haven't deleted a single wrench email in over a decade. They are all in my Gmail account as archived emails. If you are like me and never delete emails, there is a great way to dig up old information. I recently became enamored with Anthropics's Claude Co-Work, which requires the paid version, but I feel it's well worth it. You can connect it to your Gmail account (not available in the free version). When you do that, you can ask it in plain language to search and extract data for you. When I get some time I am going to see how I can expand this method to the online archives rather than using my personal Gmail data. Regardless, whether using the archives or Gmail, the results are very helpful. I have used this to find historical discussions with great success. I will give you an example of what I asked and what the response was. It was exactly what I was looking for. *Claude Prompt:* Go into my email and find the RE wrenches list email list server address and then search for all emails to or from that list server regarding NEC section 690.12 and summarize the content of recent discussions at a high level *Response:* First, let me find the RE wrenches list server address. Got it. The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. Now let me search for 690.12 discussions. Good, I can see several distinct threads touching 690.12. Let me read the key threads to get enough detail for a solid summary. I now have solid coverage across four distinct threads. Here's your summary. --- The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. --- ### 690.12 Discussions on RE-wrenches: High-Level Summary Four threads surfaced with meaningful 690.12 discussion, covering the period from roughly August 2025 through January 2026. **Thread 1: "Battery RSD" (August 2025)** This thread clarified an important terminology distinction: Rapid Shutdown is a term that belongs specifically to PV systems under 690.12 and should not be conflated with battery or ESS disconnecting means, which are covered under NEC 480 and 706 respectively. The discussion resolved a real inspection dispute where a building inspector was demanding a disconnect between the battery and the inverter. The installer eventually got the supervisor to agree that what was actually needed was an AC disconnect within sight of the ESS, not a DC disconnect between battery and inverter. **Thread 2: "Help understanding 690.12/UL 3741 and Ironridge" (October 2025)** A wrench working on a new home with a Sol-Ark/battery system was confused about whether Ironridge's UL 3741-listed XR Flush Mount racking eliminated the need for MLPEs. The group clarified that UL 3741 compliance is a system-level listing that requires specific matched combinations of racking, inverters, and (in some cases) RSD devices. Ironridge's listing at the time only covered Tesla inverters with MCIs or Solis with MidNite MNSSR units, so Sol-Ark was not a covered option. One variation of the UL 3741 path requires the inverter to be mounted within roughly one to three feet of the array, making it impractical for most residential installs, while the other variation uses RSD devices and allows a remotely located inverter. **Thread 3: "Tigo TS4-A-F" (November 2025)** This was the most technically substantive thread. It started with RSD device reliability concerns and evolved into a broader interpretation debate about when 690.12 actually applies. On applicability: Zeke Yewdall argued that 690.12 module-level RSD is only required on inhabited structures and that even unoccupied detached garages might not require it. He read Exception #2 of the 2023 NEC as clearly exempting nonenclosed detached structures such as parking shade structures, carports, solar trellises, and similar, which he argued extends to ground-mounted arrays. William Miller pushed back, paraphrasing the rule as: if PV circuits are located on or in any structure, RSS is required, with the only exception being a structure whose sole purpose is to house solar equipment. His colorful summary was that if your inverter is in a shed with one rake in it, RSD is required. Howie Michaelson raised the additional open question of whether RSD is still required when the array is on a nonenclosed structure but DC conductors are routed into a dwelling where the inverter is located, noting this is a particularly important consideration for cold-climate battery installations. On device reliability: William Miller argued that the RSS requirement outpaced the availability of reliable hardware to implement it, noting that interrupting high-voltage DC under load requires serious arc suppression that a small plastic RSD nodule is not well suited to provide. He also flagged a nationwide RSD device shortage at the time. **Thread 4: "MidNite MNSSR-600-SS" (January 2026)** MidNite Solar confirmed directly on the list that the MNSSR-600-SS string-level RSD product has been discontinued and there is no replacement on their roadmap, citing new UL double-redundancy failsafe requirements that would have demanded a substantial redesign. The original question was whether string-level shutdown alone could satisfy 690.12 under NEC 2023 or 2026 without UL 3741 involvement. William Miller's practical takeaway was that the most viable design path to avoid 690.12 compliance headaches altogether is to keep all electronics in a dedicated structure used for nothing other than the PV system. --- **Bottom line across threads:** The list has been working through 690.12 from multiple angles simultaneously -- what structures trigger it, what exceptions actually hold up with AHJs, whether UL 3741 is a realistic residential compliance path given equipment compatibility constraints, and the shrinking market for string-level RSD devices. The ground-mount applicability question in particular had no clean consensus answer, with experienced wrenches reading the code exceptions differently. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sat Mar 7 19:49:22 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 17:49:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <569ab602-cb99-4da3-8578-2c35dc4265ec@solarray.com> I wouldn't blame the inspector, I would blame the NEC.  All the changes, moving stuff back and forth, stuff being a requirement and then not a requirement, and then another code iteration, its a requirement again? (array grounding?!?)  Everyone is confused, installers and inspectors alike. AND, that seem to be the goal for certain members of the NEC.  Mission accomplished: total confusion. Specifically: while I agree that splitting 690 into other sections like 705 was a good idea, the execution was poor.  The language is poor.  Diagrams and additional info in the handbook that should clear up some of the confusion? Also poor. Considering the stakes and the size of the industry, this is just ridiculous. Mean while to make it even tougher, local jurisdictions are stepping in with their own additional requirements, to the point that it takes longer and more work to get a permit approved, than it takes to do the actual installation.    Goal: make solar less affordable?  Mission accomplished. End result: more and more homeowners are just buying "kits" on the internet and getting their beer drinking buddy to help install. Is solar safer now? NO Are home electrical systems safer now?  NO Is the solar industry and electrical industry as a whole worse off?  YES I know we have some good folks on the NEC that are honest and working hard, but they are being foiled at every turn by folks with ulterior motives and ulterior funding sources.  Meanwhile, if the current administration wants to improve electrical safety and save American jobs, how about stopping the flood of non UL listed garbage hitting Amazon? Ray Walters Remote Solar On 3/7/2026 9:16 AM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > I think he's having trouble with the definitions of different circuits. > > Figure 705.1 shows a diagram showing where the inverter output circuit > is, which is what he's talking about, not a PV output circuit or a PV > source circuit, which is what most of 690 addresses, and are shown in > the figures in 690... however it is confusing when they throw in > current rating for an inverter output circuit in 690.8. > > I can't quickly find any references to requirements for inverter > output circuits, other than all of the stuff in 705 about > interconnecting them. > > The language about the over 150 volts to ground is from 690.7(D) back > in 2011... not sure when they removed it, but it's not in the 2020, > 2023, or 2026 books I have handy.... > > Zeke > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2026 at 9:07 PM > wrote: > > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any > extraneous lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > >    1. Is this city inspector just full of it? His comments and my >       response. City is on NEC 2023 (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2026 03:29:56 +0000 > From: "scot.arey at solarcentex.com" > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is this city inspector just full of it? His >         comments and my response. City is on NEC 2023 > Message-ID: >         > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Read and reply only if you want to stick it to an inspector ? > > System is 19 modules with Enphase IQ8: NM through attic and he > insists it must be guarded or in conduit. His comment back to me > on why he failed the inspection and I tried to tell him that the > IQ8 output is not a PV source circuit. > > > Good afternoon,  I have just read your email and would like to > inform you that your code reference is spot on. 690.6 A PV Source > Circuit refers to a NRTL  Listed assembly and is exclusive to the > wiring from the Panel to the Microinverter, it as a listed > assembly is not subject to the DC rules of 690..  690.6 b refers > to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt from the rules of > 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which states, ?Circuits > over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family dwellings, live > parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits over 150 volts > to ground Shall Not be accessible to other than qualified persons > while energized.  The commentary for this code states, Conduit, > closed cabinets, or enclosures that require tools to open them are > means of limiting access to qualified persons only.  These > circuits are production and not utilization circuits and therefore > must be protected from physical damage and errant tampering.  As > was noted at Plan Review > > Dd > > My proposed response: > > I have read your reply and believe you have mis-cited code > references. You wrote: > > "690.6 b refers to the Inverter Output Circuit and is not exempt > from the rules of 690.7 Circuit Requirements, Specifically D which > states, ?Circuits over 150 volts to ground. In one and two family > dwellings, live parts in PV source circuits and PV output circuits > over 150 volts to ground Shall Not be accessible to other than > qualified persons while energized." > > 690.6b is here. > [cid:1554f576-5063-4098-a38c-3a8291b6699d] > 690.7 (D) does not reference "circuits over 150-volts..." but is > pasted here. This is a reference to marking of direct current (DC) > PV circuits. This does not apply because the inverter output > circuit is not a "DC PV Circuit." > > [cid:5e6c0708-cbd2-4be2-82c4-44f97a1db3d2] > ________________________________ > > > The section that almost refers to "PV output circuits over 150 > volts to ground Shall Not be accessible" is not in NEC 2023 which > is what Temple uses. I have pasted the 2020 language, which is not > the language you cite to me, and even that is referring to "PV > source and output" circuits and the NEC  2020 definition of "PV > source and output" deals with DC. I have pasted and highlighted > that definition below. > > [cid:407b334f-2b4d-4975-8f4a-22d82c45293c] > > > > [cid:2f2cd9f6-90e8-4b1e-a1d6-62dbf28e2fd0] > [cid:fb85f1f2-2846-4c4a-807c-b3085e9bbe29] > > > So we are left with the fact that an inverter output circuit is > alternating current, as defined under NEC 2023. Definition in > Section 100: > > [cid:4bd3f0a1-dd27-4c5b-a5c7-335f132f38cd] > > > We are left with Chapter 3 wiring to address this AC circuit. > There is no NEC 2023 reference to "These circuits are production > and not utilization circuits and therefore must be protected from > physical damage and errant tampering." Simply not in code. > > If you insist I put the AC wire in conduit, please tell me the > requirement. If it's "I just want it in conduit" then just ell me > that. But there is little to justify it in NEC 2023. > > > > > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > [cid:f2ce8538-438b-48d0-92e0-1e00d98cc434] > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 136049 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 1134546 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 470202 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 46022 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 193618 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image.png > Type: image/png > Size: 414241 bytes > Desc: image.png > URL: > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Outlook-dzzqmyah.png > Type: image/png > Size: 294949 bytes > Desc: Outlook-dzzqmyah.png > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 75 > ******************************************* > > > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 18:41:23 2026 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2026 18:41:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AI tip for Wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, This is amazingly and scarily impressive. Very useful, and in my luddite oriented mind, very worrisome at the same time. Thanks for the demonstration. Howie On Sun, Mar 8, 2026, 10:11 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I wanted to share a tip for using AI to extract from the amazing knowledge > base we have accumulated over time. I haven't deleted a single wrench email > in over a decade. They are all in my Gmail account as archived emails. If > you are like me and never delete emails, there is a great way to dig up old > information. > > I recently became enamored with Anthropics's Claude Co-Work, which > requires the paid version, but I feel it's well worth it. You can connect > it to your Gmail account (not available in the free version). When you do > that, you can ask it in plain language to search and extract data for you. > > When I get some time I am going to see how I can expand this method to the > online archives rather than using my personal Gmail data. Regardless, > whether using the archives or Gmail, the results are very helpful. I have > used this to find historical discussions with great success. > > I will give you an example of what I asked and what the response was. It > was exactly what I was looking for. > > *Claude Prompt:* > > Go into my email and find the RE wrenches list email list server address > and then search for all emails to or from that list server regarding NEC > section 690.12 and summarize the content of recent discussions at a high > level > > *Response:* > > First, let me find the RE wrenches list server address. > > Got it. The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. > Now let me search for 690.12 discussions. > > Good, I can see several distinct threads touching 690.12. Let me read the > key threads to get enough detail for a solid summary. > > I now have solid coverage across four distinct threads. Here's your > summary. > > --- > > The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. > > --- > > ### 690.12 Discussions on RE-wrenches: High-Level Summary > > Four threads surfaced with meaningful 690.12 discussion, covering the > period from roughly August 2025 through January 2026. > > **Thread 1: "Battery RSD" (August 2025)** > > This thread clarified an important terminology distinction: Rapid Shutdown > is a term that belongs specifically to PV systems under 690.12 and should > not be conflated with battery or ESS disconnecting means, which are covered > under NEC 480 and 706 respectively. The discussion resolved a real > inspection dispute where a building inspector was demanding a disconnect > between the battery and the inverter. The installer eventually got the > supervisor to agree that what was actually needed was an AC disconnect > within sight of the ESS, not a DC disconnect between battery and inverter. > > **Thread 2: "Help understanding 690.12/UL 3741 and Ironridge" (October > 2025)** > > A wrench working on a new home with a Sol-Ark/battery system was confused > about whether Ironridge's UL 3741-listed XR Flush Mount racking eliminated > the need for MLPEs. The group clarified that UL 3741 compliance is a > system-level listing that requires specific matched combinations of > racking, inverters, and (in some cases) RSD devices. Ironridge's listing at > the time only covered Tesla inverters with MCIs or Solis with MidNite MNSSR > units, so Sol-Ark was not a covered option. One variation of the UL 3741 > path requires the inverter to be mounted within roughly one to three feet > of the array, making it impractical for most residential installs, while > the other variation uses RSD devices and allows a remotely located inverter. > > **Thread 3: "Tigo TS4-A-F" (November 2025)** > > This was the most technically substantive thread. It started with RSD > device reliability concerns and evolved into a broader interpretation > debate about when 690.12 actually applies. > > On applicability: Zeke Yewdall argued that 690.12 module-level RSD is only > required on inhabited structures and that even unoccupied detached garages > might not require it. He read Exception #2 of the 2023 NEC as clearly > exempting nonenclosed detached structures such as parking shade structures, > carports, solar trellises, and similar, which he argued extends to > ground-mounted arrays. William Miller pushed back, paraphrasing the rule > as: if PV circuits are located on or in any structure, RSS is required, > with the only exception being a structure whose sole purpose is to house > solar equipment. His colorful summary was that if your inverter is in a > shed with one rake in it, RSD is required. Howie Michaelson raised the > additional open question of whether RSD is still required when the array is > on a nonenclosed structure but DC conductors are routed into a dwelling > where the inverter is located, noting this is a particularly important > consideration for cold-climate battery installations. > > On device reliability: William Miller argued that the RSS requirement > outpaced the availability of reliable hardware to implement it, noting that > interrupting high-voltage DC under load requires serious arc suppression > that a small plastic RSD nodule is not well suited to provide. He also > flagged a nationwide RSD device shortage at the time. > > **Thread 4: "MidNite MNSSR-600-SS" (January 2026)** > > MidNite Solar confirmed directly on the list that the MNSSR-600-SS > string-level RSD product has been discontinued and there is no replacement > on their roadmap, citing new UL double-redundancy failsafe requirements > that would have demanded a substantial redesign. The original question was > whether string-level shutdown alone could satisfy 690.12 under NEC 2023 or > 2026 without UL 3741 involvement. William Miller's practical takeaway was > that the most viable design path to avoid 690.12 compliance headaches > altogether is to keep all electronics in a dedicated structure used for > nothing other than the PV system. > > --- > > **Bottom line across threads:** The list has been working through 690.12 > from multiple angles simultaneously -- what structures trigger it, what > exceptions actually hold up with AHJs, whether UL 3741 is a realistic > residential compliance path given equipment compatibility constraints, and > the shrinking market for string-level RSD devices. The ground-mount > applicability question in particular had no clean consensus answer, with > experienced wrenches reading the code exceptions differently. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lou at spreesolarsystems.com Sun Mar 8 19:11:29 2026 From: lou at spreesolarsystems.com (Lou Russo) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2026 13:11:29 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AI tip for Wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Throw a week's worth of Discover battery logs (data recorded every 5 seconds) at Claude, and it creates amazing reports. With Claude doing most of the work, I created a small Python script in 2 hours that displays my PV system information—just the data I want, in the format I want. Easy personalized programming that's incredibly easy and I am just an electrician. I read about the stuff actual programmers are doing; it is mind blowing. The world is changing quickly, hold on. Lou Russo Owner lou at spreesolarsystems.com Office - 808 345 6762 Direct Line - 808 731 1907 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 On Sun, Mar 8, 2026 at 12:59 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jason, > This is amazingly and scarily impressive. Very useful, and in my luddite > oriented mind, very worrisome at the same time. Thanks for the > demonstration. > Howie > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2026, 10:11 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I wanted to share a tip for using AI to extract from the amazing >> knowledge base we have accumulated over time. I haven't deleted a single >> wrench email in over a decade. They are all in my Gmail account as archived >> emails. If you are like me and never delete emails, there is a great way to >> dig up old information. >> >> I recently became enamored with Anthropics's Claude Co-Work, which >> requires the paid version, but I feel it's well worth it. You can connect >> it to your Gmail account (not available in the free version). When you do >> that, you can ask it in plain language to search and extract data for you. >> >> When I get some time I am going to see how I can expand this method to >> the online archives rather than using my personal Gmail data. Regardless, >> whether using the archives or Gmail, the results are very helpful. I have >> used this to find historical discussions with great success. >> >> I will give you an example of what I asked and what the response was. It >> was exactly what I was looking for. >> >> *Claude Prompt:* >> >> Go into my email and find the RE wrenches list email list server address >> and then search for all emails to or from that list server regarding NEC >> section 690.12 and summarize the content of recent discussions at a high >> level >> >> *Response:* >> >> First, let me find the RE wrenches list server address. >> >> Got it. The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. >> Now let me search for 690.12 discussions. >> >> Good, I can see several distinct threads touching 690.12. Let me read the >> key threads to get enough detail for a solid summary. >> >> I now have solid coverage across four distinct threads. Here's your >> summary. >> >> --- >> >> The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. >> >> --- >> >> ### 690.12 Discussions on RE-wrenches: High-Level Summary >> >> Four threads surfaced with meaningful 690.12 discussion, covering the >> period from roughly August 2025 through January 2026. >> >> **Thread 1: "Battery RSD" (August 2025)** >> >> This thread clarified an important terminology distinction: Rapid >> Shutdown is a term that belongs specifically to PV systems under 690.12 and >> should not be conflated with battery or ESS disconnecting means, which are >> covered under NEC 480 and 706 respectively. The discussion resolved a real >> inspection dispute where a building inspector was demanding a disconnect >> between the battery and the inverter. The installer eventually got the >> supervisor to agree that what was actually needed was an AC disconnect >> within sight of the ESS, not a DC disconnect between battery and inverter. >> >> **Thread 2: "Help understanding 690.12/UL 3741 and Ironridge" (October >> 2025)** >> >> A wrench working on a new home with a Sol-Ark/battery system was confused >> about whether Ironridge's UL 3741-listed XR Flush Mount racking eliminated >> the need for MLPEs. The group clarified that UL 3741 compliance is a >> system-level listing that requires specific matched combinations of >> racking, inverters, and (in some cases) RSD devices. Ironridge's listing at >> the time only covered Tesla inverters with MCIs or Solis with MidNite MNSSR >> units, so Sol-Ark was not a covered option. One variation of the UL 3741 >> path requires the inverter to be mounted within roughly one to three feet >> of the array, making it impractical for most residential installs, while >> the other variation uses RSD devices and allows a remotely located inverter. >> >> **Thread 3: "Tigo TS4-A-F" (November 2025)** >> >> This was the most technically substantive thread. It started with RSD >> device reliability concerns and evolved into a broader interpretation >> debate about when 690.12 actually applies. >> >> On applicability: Zeke Yewdall argued that 690.12 module-level RSD is >> only required on inhabited structures and that even unoccupied detached >> garages might not require it. He read Exception #2 of the 2023 NEC as >> clearly exempting nonenclosed detached structures such as parking shade >> structures, carports, solar trellises, and similar, which he argued extends >> to ground-mounted arrays. William Miller pushed back, paraphrasing the rule >> as: if PV circuits are located on or in any structure, RSS is required, >> with the only exception being a structure whose sole purpose is to house >> solar equipment. His colorful summary was that if your inverter is in a >> shed with one rake in it, RSD is required. Howie Michaelson raised the >> additional open question of whether RSD is still required when the array is >> on a nonenclosed structure but DC conductors are routed into a dwelling >> where the inverter is located, noting this is a particularly important >> consideration for cold-climate battery installations. >> >> On device reliability: William Miller argued that the RSS requirement >> outpaced the availability of reliable hardware to implement it, noting that >> interrupting high-voltage DC under load requires serious arc suppression >> that a small plastic RSD nodule is not well suited to provide. He also >> flagged a nationwide RSD device shortage at the time. >> >> **Thread 4: "MidNite MNSSR-600-SS" (January 2026)** >> >> MidNite Solar confirmed directly on the list that the MNSSR-600-SS >> string-level RSD product has been discontinued and there is no replacement >> on their roadmap, citing new UL double-redundancy failsafe requirements >> that would have demanded a substantial redesign. The original question was >> whether string-level shutdown alone could satisfy 690.12 under NEC 2023 or >> 2026 without UL 3741 involvement. William Miller's practical takeaway was >> that the most viable design path to avoid 690.12 compliance headaches >> altogether is to keep all electronics in a dedicated structure used for >> nothing other than the PV system. >> >> --- >> >> **Bottom line across threads:** The list has been working through 690.12 >> from multiple angles simultaneously -- what structures trigger it, what >> exceptions actually hold up with AHJs, whether UL 3741 is a realistic >> residential compliance path given equipment compatibility constraints, and >> the shrinking market for string-level RSD devices. The ground-mount >> applicability question in particular had no clean consensus answer, with >> experienced wrenches reading the code exceptions differently. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atruitt at gmail.com Sun Mar 8 19:47:00 2026 From: atruitt at gmail.com (Andrew Truitt) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2026 17:47:00 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AI tip for Wrenches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Couldn't agree more. Claude is the best research assistant/paralegal/knowledge synthesizer one could ask for, especially given the cost (I'm on the $100/month max plan and it's the best money I've ever spent). This is just one small example of an analysis it did for me for a personal project: https://claude.ai/share/a4079ea9-6be2-4e98-8cf9-d524e83a4e22 I've attached the outputs. The whole thing took about 20 minutes. It's not perfect, but very helpful. I think the most valuable skill going forward is going to be facility with AI, which comes down to breaking big projects into manageable chunks, providing the appropriate context, and working through the process with efficient, targeted prompts. And it doesn't hurt that Anthropic just told the Justice Department to pound sand when they wanted to use Claude for lethal autonomous weapons and spying on US citizens. - Andrew "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!" ~William McDonough On Sun, Mar 8, 2026 at 5:14 PM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Throw a week's worth of Discover battery logs (data recorded every 5 > seconds) at Claude, and it creates amazing reports. > > With Claude doing most of the work, I created a small Python script in 2 > hours that displays my PV system information—just the data I want, in the > format I want. > Easy personalized programming that's incredibly easy and I am just an > electrician. > > I read about the stuff actual programmers are doing; it is mind blowing. > > The world is changing quickly, hold on. > > Lou Russo > Owner > lou at spreesolarsystems.com > Office - 808 345 6762 > Direct Line - 808 731 1907 > Spree Solar Systems LLC > CT-34322 > > > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2026 at 12:59 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Jason, >> This is amazingly and scarily impressive. Very useful, and in my luddite >> oriented mind, very worrisome at the same time. Thanks for the >> demonstration. >> Howie >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2026, 10:11 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I wanted to share a tip for using AI to extract from the amazing >>> knowledge base we have accumulated over time. I haven't deleted a single >>> wrench email in over a decade. They are all in my Gmail account as archived >>> emails. If you are like me and never delete emails, there is a great way to >>> dig up old information. >>> >>> I recently became enamored with Anthropics's Claude Co-Work, which >>> requires the paid version, but I feel it's well worth it. You can connect >>> it to your Gmail account (not available in the free version). When you do >>> that, you can ask it in plain language to search and extract data for you. >>> >>> When I get some time I am going to see how I can expand this method to >>> the online archives rather than using my personal Gmail data. Regardless, >>> whether using the archives or Gmail, the results are very helpful. I have >>> used this to find historical discussions with great success. >>> >>> I will give you an example of what I asked and what the response was. It >>> was exactly what I was looking for. >>> >>> *Claude Prompt:* >>> >>> Go into my email and find the RE wrenches list email list server address >>> and then search for all emails to or from that list server regarding NEC >>> section 690.12 and summarize the content of recent discussions at a high >>> level >>> >>> *Response:* >>> >>> First, let me find the RE wrenches list server address. >>> >>> Got it. The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. >>> Now let me search for 690.12 discussions. >>> >>> Good, I can see several distinct threads touching 690.12. Let me read >>> the key threads to get enough detail for a solid summary. >>> >>> I now have solid coverage across four distinct threads. Here's your >>> summary. >>> >>> --- >>> >>> The list server address is `re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org`. >>> >>> --- >>> >>> ### 690.12 Discussions on RE-wrenches: High-Level Summary >>> >>> Four threads surfaced with meaningful 690.12 discussion, covering the >>> period from roughly August 2025 through January 2026. >>> >>> **Thread 1: "Battery RSD" (August 2025)** >>> >>> This thread clarified an important terminology distinction: Rapid >>> Shutdown is a term that belongs specifically to PV systems under 690.12 and >>> should not be conflated with battery or ESS disconnecting means, which are >>> covered under NEC 480 and 706 respectively. The discussion resolved a real >>> inspection dispute where a building inspector was demanding a disconnect >>> between the battery and the inverter. The installer eventually got the >>> supervisor to agree that what was actually needed was an AC disconnect >>> within sight of the ESS, not a DC disconnect between battery and inverter. >>> >>> **Thread 2: "Help understanding 690.12/UL 3741 and Ironridge" (October >>> 2025)** >>> >>> A wrench working on a new home with a Sol-Ark/battery system was >>> confused about whether Ironridge's UL 3741-listed XR Flush Mount racking >>> eliminated the need for MLPEs. The group clarified that UL 3741 compliance >>> is a system-level listing that requires specific matched combinations of >>> racking, inverters, and (in some cases) RSD devices. Ironridge's listing at >>> the time only covered Tesla inverters with MCIs or Solis with MidNite MNSSR >>> units, so Sol-Ark was not a covered option. One variation of the UL 3741 >>> path requires the inverter to be mounted within roughly one to three feet >>> of the array, making it impractical for most residential installs, while >>> the other variation uses RSD devices and allows a remotely located inverter. >>> >>> **Thread 3: "Tigo TS4-A-F" (November 2025)** >>> >>> This was the most technically substantive thread. It started with RSD >>> device reliability concerns and evolved into a broader interpretation >>> debate about when 690.12 actually applies. >>> >>> On applicability: Zeke Yewdall argued that 690.12 module-level RSD is >>> only required on inhabited structures and that even unoccupied detached >>> garages might not require it. He read Exception #2 of the 2023 NEC as >>> clearly exempting nonenclosed detached structures such as parking shade >>> structures, carports, solar trellises, and similar, which he argued extends >>> to ground-mounted arrays. William Miller pushed back, paraphrasing the rule >>> as: if PV circuits are located on or in any structure, RSS is required, >>> with the only exception being a structure whose sole purpose is to house >>> solar equipment. His colorful summary was that if your inverter is in a >>> shed with one rake in it, RSD is required. Howie Michaelson raised the >>> additional open question of whether RSD is still required when the array is >>> on a nonenclosed structure but DC conductors are routed into a dwelling >>> where the inverter is located, noting this is a particularly important >>> consideration for cold-climate battery installations. >>> >>> On device reliability: William Miller argued that the RSS requirement >>> outpaced the availability of reliable hardware to implement it, noting that >>> interrupting high-voltage DC under load requires serious arc suppression >>> that a small plastic RSD nodule is not well suited to provide. He also >>> flagged a nationwide RSD device shortage at the time. >>> >>> **Thread 4: "MidNite MNSSR-600-SS" (January 2026)** >>> >>> MidNite Solar confirmed directly on the list that the MNSSR-600-SS >>> string-level RSD product has been discontinued and there is no replacement >>> on their roadmap, citing new UL double-redundancy failsafe requirements >>> that would have demanded a substantial redesign. The original question was >>> whether string-level shutdown alone could satisfy 690.12 under NEC 2023 or >>> 2026 without UL 3741 involvement. William Miller's practical takeaway was >>> that the most viable design path to avoid 690.12 compliance headaches >>> altogether is to keep all electronics in a dedicated structure used for >>> nothing other than the PV system. >>> >>> --- >>> >>> **Bottom line across threads:** The list has been working through 690.12 >>> from multiple angles simultaneously -- what structures trigger it, what >>> exceptions actually hold up with AHJs, whether UL 3741 is a realistic >>> residential compliance path given equipment compatibility constraints, and >>> the shrinking market for string-level RSD devices. The ground-mount >>> applicability question in particular had no clean consensus answer, with >>> experienced wrenches reading the code exceptions differently. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solar-carport-overview.pptx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.presentationml.presentation Size: 44917 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solar-carport-analysis.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 48097 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solar-carport-analysis.xlsx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet Size: 24705 bytes Desc: not available URL: From berkeleysolar at outlook.com Wed Mar 11 11:11:36 2026 From: berkeleysolar at outlook.com (Mark Frye) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2026 15:11:36 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGM Self Discharge Message-ID: Do AGM discharge 10% a month? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Wed Mar 11 11:26:00 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2026 08:26:00 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGM Self Discharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Typically, AGMs self-discharge around 2-3% per month at 25 °C. Higher temps accelerate this, lower temps slow it down. Flooded Lead Acid is 8-12%, depending on plate sizes and the health of cells. *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 8:13 AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Do AGM discharge 10% a month? > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Wed Mar 11 13:19:47 2026 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2026 13:19:47 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGM Self Discharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve, what is the self discharge on Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP)? Christopher On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 11:26 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Typically, AGMs self-discharge around 2-3% per month at 25 °C. Higher > temps accelerate this, lower temps slow it down. > > Flooded Lead Acid is 8-12%, depending on plate sizes and the health of > cells. > > > *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* > *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 > *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com > ------------------------------ > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 8:13 AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Do AGM discharge 10% a month? >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Wed Mar 11 13:54:47 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2026 10:54:47 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGM Self Discharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Self-discharge (No Load) is typically around 1–2%, depending on temperature and pack chemistry. Higher temperatures will accelerate this, but it generally caps out at around 3-4% under worst-case conditions, usually because the BMS shuts down the battery if temperatures get too high. The bigger concern is prolonged exposure to temperatures above 45 °C. At those temperatures, you will begin to lose overall cycle life, which can cause pack swelling, even if the batteries are just sitting in storage. Based on current observations, that loss can be up to roughly 2% of overall cycle life per year when exposed to those elevated temperatures. Unfortunately, there isn’t much comprehensive testing available yet. Right now, we are conducting cold-weather testing to better understand how these batteries are affected by low temperatures and what kind of long-term damage cold exposure may cause. We’re seeing some preliminary results, but complete data will likely take another 5–10 years to fully develop. We are currently observing that LFP batteries start to degrade at temperatures below about –5 °C. The impact seems to average around 1% additional degradation per year in both cycle life and capacity at those temperatures. Prolonged exposure to -20 °C and below, you can also see swelling from electrolyte freezing. One thing that is becoming increasingly clear through this testing is that cell manufacturers’ published data often does not fully reflect real-world performance, particularly in long-term environmental testing. *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 10:20 AM Chris Schaefer wrote: > Steve, what is the self discharge on Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP)? > > Christopher > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 11:26 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Typically, AGMs self-discharge around 2-3% per month at 25 °C. Higher >> temps accelerate this, lower temps slow it down. >> >> Flooded Lead Acid is 8-12%, depending on plate sizes and the health of >> cells. >> >> >> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >> ------------------------------ >> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for >> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged >> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the >> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If >> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or >> destroy this message and all copies. >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 8:13 AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Do AGM discharge 10% a month? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Chris Schaefer’s > > > *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com > ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > * > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Wed Mar 11 19:31:26 2026 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2026 18:31:26 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGM Self Discharge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fro. My experiance yes On Wed, Mar 11, 2026, 12:57 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Self-discharge (No Load) is typically around 1–2%, depending on > temperature and pack chemistry. Higher temperatures will accelerate this, > but it generally caps out at around 3-4% under worst-case conditions, > usually because the BMS shuts down the battery if temperatures get too high. > > The bigger concern is prolonged exposure to temperatures above 45 °C. At > those temperatures, you will begin to lose overall cycle life, which can > cause pack swelling, even if the batteries are just sitting in storage. > Based on current observations, that loss can be up to roughly 2% of overall > cycle life per year when exposed to those elevated temperatures. > > Unfortunately, there isn’t much comprehensive testing available yet. Right > now, we are conducting cold-weather testing to better understand how these > batteries are affected by low temperatures and what kind of long-term > damage cold exposure may cause. We’re seeing some preliminary results, but > complete data will likely take another 5–10 years to fully develop. > > We are currently observing that LFP batteries start to degrade at > temperatures below about –5 °C. The impact seems to average around 1% > additional degradation per year in both cycle life and capacity at those > temperatures. Prolonged exposure to -20 °C and below, you can also see > swelling from electrolyte freezing. > > One thing that is becoming increasingly clear through this testing is that > cell manufacturers’ published data often does not fully reflect real-world > performance, particularly in long-term environmental testing. > > > *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* > *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 > *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com > ------------------------------ > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 10:20 AM Chris Schaefer > wrote: > >> Steve, what is the self discharge on Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP)? >> >> Christopher >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 11:26 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Typically, AGMs self-discharge around 2-3% per month at 25 °C. Higher >>> temps accelerate this, lower temps slow it down. >>> >>> Flooded Lead Acid is 8-12%, depending on plate sizes and the health of >>> cells. >>> >>> >>> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >>> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >>> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >>> ------------------------------ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for >>> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged >>> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the >>> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If >>> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or >>> destroy this message and all copies. >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2026 at 8:13 AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Do AGM discharge 10% a month? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> Chris Schaefer’s >> >> >> *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >> *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com >> ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com >> * >> >> >> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >> willing to work and give to those who would not." >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Mar 15 18:30:33 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2026 15:30:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX battery voltage sensor error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've got a system that is throwing occasional battery voltage sensor errors and shutting down, then turning back on when the error clears a few seconds to a minute later. Stacked system, two VFX3524's, two FM60's, 600AH of LFP batteries (EG4 LL rackmounts) in open loop. It tends to do this when the batteries are full with lots of sun out. I am not 100% sure that the batteries are happy -- it's possible that the BMS's are shutting off charging, and that's causing a spike in the bus voltage the inverters are seeing. But if that's so, I don't see anything recording it. Charge controllers both report 28.2 volts as highest voltage for the day. I adjusted the absorb voltage and time down a little bit -- we had set it up a few months ago at 28.2 for 2 hours to try to get the batteries to balance better, but I took it down to 28.0 for 1 hour now. Float was at 27.1, I reduced it to 27.0. But, could this be an actual problem with the inverters? Or likely still a programming issue? Z -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun Mar 15 21:19:05 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2026 19:19:05 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX battery voltage sensor error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65C6A88C-2AD4-4A08-A58E-F38480290CE2@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sun Mar 15 21:44:33 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2026 18:44:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX battery voltage sensor error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Zeke: This sounds like a classic case of the BMS increasing impedance at high SOC and the charge controller not responding fast enough. If true, your solution is dialing down the absorb voltage until this stops happening. You then do not get full charge. Then comes the risk of the BMS units not calibrating. Sorry to be a Debby Downer but I am still traumatized trying to integrate lithium batteries into a Sunny Island system. I do not recommend connecting old school inverters to lithium batteries. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Sun, Mar 15, 2026 at 3:32 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I've got a system that is throwing occasional battery voltage sensor > errors and shutting down, then turning back on when the error clears a few > seconds to a minute later. Stacked system, two VFX3524's, two FM60's, 600AH > of LFP batteries (EG4 LL rackmounts) in open loop. It tends to do this > when the batteries are full with lots of sun out. > > I am not 100% sure that the batteries are happy -- it's possible that the > BMS's are shutting off charging, and that's causing a spike in the bus > voltage the inverters are seeing. But if that's so, I don't see anything > recording it. Charge controllers both report 28.2 volts as highest voltage > for the day. I adjusted the absorb voltage and time down a little bit -- > we had set it up a few months ago at 28.2 for 2 hours to try to get the > batteries to balance better, but I took it down to 28.0 for 1 hour now. > Float was at 27.1, I reduced it to 27.0. > > But, could this be an actual problem with the inverters? Or likely still > a programming issue? > > Z > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Mar 15 21:51:57 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2026 18:51:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX battery voltage sensor error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That was my thought as well -- dial down the absorb voltage again (which we just recently dialed up in because of imbalance issues....). If I could get into the BMS programming it would help... the ones I've built myself with active balancing and adjustable setpoints I have not had any problems with in open loop, but a lot of the factory ones it is hard to hit that middle between the BMS shutting off, and the BMS not calibrating/balancing. Still, I have 30+ years of trauma with lead acid batteries.... Occasionally I still work on systems with them and remember things and wonder... how did we just accept this behavior as normal for so long. Zeke On Sun, Mar 15, 2026 at 6:44 PM William Miller wrote: > Zeke: > > This sounds like a classic case of the BMS increasing impedance at high > SOC and the charge controller not responding fast enough. > > If true, your solution is dialing down the absorb voltage until this stops > happening. You then do not get full charge. > > Then comes the risk of the BMS units not calibrating. > > Sorry to be a Debby Downer but I am still traumatized trying to integrate > lithium batteries into a Sunny Island system. > > I do not recommend connecting old school inverters to lithium batteries. > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2026 at 3:32 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I've got a system that is throwing occasional battery voltage sensor >> errors and shutting down, then turning back on when the error clears a few >> seconds to a minute later. Stacked system, two VFX3524's, two FM60's, 600AH >> of LFP batteries (EG4 LL rackmounts) in open loop. It tends to do this >> when the batteries are full with lots of sun out. >> >> I am not 100% sure that the batteries are happy -- it's possible that the >> BMS's are shutting off charging, and that's causing a spike in the bus >> voltage the inverters are seeing. But if that's so, I don't see anything >> recording it. Charge controllers both report 28.2 volts as highest voltage >> for the day. I adjusted the absorb voltage and time down a little bit -- >> we had set it up a few months ago at 28.2 for 2 hours to try to get the >> batteries to balance better, but I took it down to 28.0 for 1 hour now. >> Float was at 27.1, I reduced it to 27.0. >> >> But, could this be an actual problem with the inverters? Or likely still >> a programming issue? >> >> Z >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 00:01:44 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2026 21:01:44 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX battery voltage sensor error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, Zeke, wrenches I have had this same issue, in my case it appears to be the batteries turning off then back on. The battery manufacturer says it can happen but when or near full they disconnect and the inverter see's a spike and goes into protection. Then o n ce the battery reconnect the inverter see's nominal voltage and restarts. Not my install of the OB or the batteries. Fun times On Sun, Mar 15, 2026, 6:54 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > That was my thought as well -- dial down the absorb voltage again (which > we just recently dialed up in because of imbalance issues....). If I > could get into the BMS programming it would help... the ones I've built > myself with active balancing and adjustable setpoints I have not had any > problems with in open loop, but a lot of the factory ones it is hard to hit > that middle between the BMS shutting off, and the BMS not > calibrating/balancing. > > Still, I have 30+ years of trauma with lead acid batteries.... > Occasionally I still work on systems with them and remember things and > wonder... how did we just accept this behavior as normal for so long. > > Zeke > > On Sun, Mar 15, 2026 at 6:44 PM William Miller > wrote: > >> Zeke: >> >> This sounds like a classic case of the BMS increasing impedance at high >> SOC and the charge controller not responding fast enough. >> >> If true, your solution is dialing down the absorb voltage until this >> stops happening. You then do not get full charge. >> >> Then comes the risk of the BMS units not calibrating. >> >> Sorry to be a Debby Downer but I am still traumatized trying to integrate >> lithium batteries into a Sunny Island system. >> >> I do not recommend connecting old school inverters to lithium batteries. >> >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2026 at 3:32 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I've got a system that is throwing occasional battery voltage sensor >>> errors and shutting down, then turning back on when the error clears a few >>> seconds to a minute later. Stacked system, two VFX3524's, two FM60's, 600AH >>> of LFP batteries (EG4 LL rackmounts) in open loop. It tends to do this >>> when the batteries are full with lots of sun out. >>> >>> I am not 100% sure that the batteries are happy -- it's possible that >>> the BMS's are shutting off charging, and that's causing a spike in the bus >>> voltage the inverters are seeing. But if that's so, I don't see anything >>> recording it. Charge controllers both report 28.2 volts as highest voltage >>> for the day. I adjusted the absorb voltage and time down a little bit -- >>> we had set it up a few months ago at 28.2 for 2 hours to try to get the >>> batteries to balance better, but I took it down to 28.0 for 1 hour now. >>> Float was at 27.1, I reduced it to 27.0. >>> >>> But, could this be an actual problem with the inverters? Or >>> likely still a programming issue? >>> >>> Z >>> -- >>> Zeke Yewdall >>> PV Engineer >>> NABCEP #031508-89 >>> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >>> 303-523-3592 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 16 08:38:49 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:38:49 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC Message-ID: I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. Any ideas? Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 08:58:34 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 06:58:34 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <873CEBEF-A064-4F85-95C0-B3AC67F4ACA5@gmail.com> And you set each inverter ac input amps as well? Jay > On Mar 16, 2026, at 6:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. > > Any ideas? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 16 09:03:07 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:03:07 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: <873CEBEF-A064-4F85-95C0-B3AC67F4ACA5@gmail.com> References: <873CEBEF-A064-4F85-95C0-B3AC67F4ACA5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, all 4 are set to 60Aac Input and 14Aac Charging. The masters are ports 1 and 7 with slaves on ports 2 and 8. Everything seems to be configured properly. I'm thinking during my testing the batteries were too close to the end of the bulk phase. This is a 1300aH lead acid battery bank. I'm going to try to drain them down and turn off PV charging and see what happens. I just thought it was odd because the two masters clearly indicated BULK charging. I would have thought all four inverters would share the charging during the bulk phase. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 8:58 AM Jay wrote: > And you set each inverter ac input amps as well? > > Jay > > On Mar 16, 2026, at 6:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in > 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I > configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting > max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from > a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at > all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. > > Any ideas? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 09:19:16 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 07:19:16 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: <873CEBEF-A064-4F85-95C0-B3AC67F4ACA5@gmail.com> References: <873CEBEF-A064-4F85-95C0-B3AC67F4ACA5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <41E35098-3825-44CE-8897-DE87C5809565@gmail.com> I haven’t installed too many of the A versions so might be different but the yellow led acinput lights on the inverters should be solid on when it’s connected to the acinput. Flashing when it’s thinking about connecting. And you mention a led is flashing? > On Mar 16, 2026, at 6:58 AM, Jay wrote: > >  > And you set each inverter ac input amps as well? > > Jay > >>> On Mar 16, 2026, at 6:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>  >> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump3391 at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 09:31:56 2026 From: tump3391 at gmail.com (Blair May) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:31:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: <873CEBEF-A064-4F85-95C0-B3AC67F4ACA5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <08864E37-4F82-4B6A-8C27-D3E9FDC391AA@gmail.com> I would suggest this as I have seen this w/ a fully charged BB. > On Mar 16, 2026, at 9:03 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Yes, all 4 are set to 60Aac Input and 14Aac Charging. > > The masters are ports 1 and 7 with slaves on ports 2 and 8. > > Everything seems to be configured properly. > > I'm thinking during my testing the batteries were too close to the end of the bulk phase. This is a 1300aH lead acid battery bank. I'm going to try to drain them down and turn off PV charging and see what happens. I just thought it was odd because the two masters clearly indicated BULK charging. I would have thought all four inverters would share the charging during the bulk phase. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 8:58 AM Jay > wrote: > And you set each inverter ac input amps as well? > > Jay > >> On Mar 16, 2026, at 6:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> >>  >> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Blair “TUMP” May Solarwinds Northernlights east "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we all will perish as fools." MLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 16 10:37:07 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:37:07 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: <41E35098-3825-44CE-8897-DE87C5809565@gmail.com> References: <873CEBEF-A064-4F85-95C0-B3AC67F4ACA5@gmail.com> <41E35098-3825-44CE-8897-DE87C5809565@gmail.com> Message-ID: Solid AC In lights on all four inverters. Jason On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 9:22 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I haven’t installed too many of the A versions so might be different but > the yellow led acinput lights on the inverters should be solid on when it’s > connected to the acinput. Flashing when it’s thinking about connecting. > And you mention a led is flashing? > > > > On Mar 16, 2026, at 6:58 AM, Jay wrote: > >  > And you set each inverter ac input amps as well? > > Jay > > On Mar 16, 2026, at 6:40 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in > 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I > configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting > max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from > a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at > all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. > > Any ideas? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Mon Mar 16 10:49:21 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:49:21 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But from what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. You can't have a master and slave on each leg. The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that they are connected to. My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in > 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I > configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting > max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from > a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at > all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. > > Any ideas? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 10:54:17 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:54:17 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2030E047-3FAD-4A3A-84DA-ADCD8B8FCB0B@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 16 10:57:22 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:57:22 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There is an L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned to L1 or L2. And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). Jason On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins wrote: > Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But from > what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. > > You can't have a master and slave on each leg. > > The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. > > The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that they > are connected to. > > My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. > > Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the > phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator > isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master > that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. > > > *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* > *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 > *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com > ------------------------------ > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in >> 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I >> configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting >> max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from >> a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at >> all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Mon Mar 16 11:09:45 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:09:45 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Okay... probably something to do with the R firmware. The only other thing I still see alot is there is a DC genset charging settings. This should only be changed if you have a generator that outputs only DC voltage.. It comes defaulted to 76 ot 78v and alot of installers will set this to absorb voltage. Just make sure that it's set to default and not set lower as that will affect the chargers. Make sure you check all 4 ports... *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 9:57 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There is > an L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned to > L1 or L2. > > And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters > (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). > > > Jason > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins wrote: > >> Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But from >> what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. >> >> You can't have a master and slave on each leg. >> >> The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. >> >> The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that they >> are connected to. >> >> My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. >> >> Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the >> phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator >> isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master >> that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. >> >> >> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >> ------------------------------ >> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for >> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged >> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the >> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If >> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or >> destroy this message and all copies. >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in >>> 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I >>> configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting >>> max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from >>> a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at >>> all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 11:10:14 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 08:10:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The slaves will naturally back off first. My first thought would be to check when the batteries are low enough to accept a full bulk charge. Reading further through the thread it seem like the port assignment is the culprit... Port 1 should be L1 master, port 2- L1 slave, port 7 L2 sub phase master, port 8 L2 slave. Sunny Regards, Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC CCB #204937 LRT #076 541-787-1366 On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There is > an L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned to > L1 or L2. > > And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters > (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). > > > Jason > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins wrote: > >> Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But from >> what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. >> >> You can't have a master and slave on each leg. >> >> The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. >> >> The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that they >> are connected to. >> >> My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. >> >> Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the >> phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator >> isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master >> that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. >> >> >> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >> ------------------------------ >> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for >> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged >> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the >> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If >> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or >> destroy this message and all copies. >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in >>> 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I >>> configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting >>> max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from >>> a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at >>> all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Mar 16 11:10:12 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 11:10:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Will the inverter support just 1 master and 3 slave configuration? This might enable all the slaves to charge. On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:01 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There is > an L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned to > L1 or L2. > > And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters > (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). > > > Jason > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins wrote: > >> Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But from >> what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. >> >> You can't have a master and slave on each leg. >> >> The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. >> >> The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that they >> are connected to. >> >> My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. >> >> Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the >> phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator >> isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master >> that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. >> >> >> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >> ------------------------------ >> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for >> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged >> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the >> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If >> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or >> destroy this message and all copies. >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in >>> 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I >>> configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting >>> max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from >>> a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at >>> all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 16 11:11:44 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:11:44 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The manual says to set a subphase master when doing split phase with serial/parallel stacking, but I guess it's worth a try! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:10 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > Will the inverter support just 1 master and 3 slave configuration? This might > enable all the slaves to charge. > > [data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACwAAAAAAQABAAACAkQBADs=3D] > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:01 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > > The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There is an > > L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned to L1 > > or L2. > > > > > > And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters > > (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). > > > > > > Jason  > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins > [steve at surrette.com]> wrote: > > > > > Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB.   But from > > > what I remember you can only have one Master inverter.   > > > > > > > > > You can't have a master and slave on each leg. > > > > > > > > > The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master.   > > > > > > > > > The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that they > > > are connected to.   > > > > > > > > > My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup.   > > > > > > > > > Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the > > > phases.  I like to call magic stacking.    Eventually when the generator > > > isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master > > > that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error.   > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/meips/ADKq_NaBqE16Ig5QKDNqB00Gd4kLkoy8MiGmmTS1sr-ex1o-9pw4syB4LB31QhGnKpbwtT4aZt1G0XPfk4_0pdz9B-LBXxRux739s7bRddJMyN2n7ZnXtK6920pc0w=s0-d-e1-ft#https://storage.googleapis.com/bucket-images-sig/RollsbySurrette.jpg] > > > Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager > > > t +1.902.597.4020   m +1.206.790.5840 > > > f +1.902.597.8447   e steve at surrette.com [steve at surrette.com] > > > [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/meips/ADKq_NZLg7-MWZxFFRL82cgf8A2rT8ddmgk8pJqeLnc8FKZgQkwuW4ZwksC0soR_7_bkUpt14dJV9bTFeEEDztLLM7h0__oEDm4qGPHvr_Bd2fanXlp-9ljoxSYjK6TULp2RMXESyxwlzHba0tjeYA=s0-d-e1-ft#http://cdn3.iconfinder.com/data/icons/free-social-icons/67/facebook_square_gray-24.png][https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/meips/ADKq_NbA6NI5jGTi5vOC4oq8_ofvAeiZG4WZ2kF8_Xgh0Vpf42uAlUaVvjg_zckDYxowQQ7oQNJZ70llI0Y_VB-xYKdA3Y6lLolKpd-rXs8-4nKHOLJMA507y2nFOZHZhIkCRwkOWRgAza1Z_w=s0-d-e1-ft#https://cdn3.iconfinder.com/data/icons/free-social-icons/67/instagram_square-24.png][https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/meips/ADKq_NaKNfUwaBbJt3W1YAgLIblOot3ivDxWZHMRtHArHANpQ8PuNtzwotGr4bMx_sNoAs6xRqolfUoFFmYIDkH6adld48tWd2BnrBEIHx2_Fzvcn6unothJwgkaUpNs2O0p4OxNNYiqRqCqpOFc=s0-d-e1-ft#http://cdn3.iconfinder.com/data/icons/free-social-icons/67/youtube_square_gray-24.png][https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/meips/ADKq_Nbmmi3ObYnpUheVTVKAaPIHxQO9WUd76DHQG398nmIYJ1KIiV9ZNKbPWEMUYOB3MzVkJtQtSwDhVzFYbv1YC9PfgtCjumifOQncEgquMvUj5EqS0_S3gzXJDr51eal6Afs7bQ9hYZHdrkftRA=s0-d-e1-ft#http://cdn3.iconfinder.com/data/icons/free-social-icons/67/linkedin_square_gray-24.png] > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > > > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > > > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > > > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > > > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > > > destroy this message and all copies. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in > > > > 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I > > > > configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting > > > > max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present > > > > (from a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not > > > > charge at all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for > > > > charging. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Szumlanski  > > > > Florida Solar Design Group  > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > > > > the other: > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > [http://re-wrenches.org] > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > [RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > [https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/] > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > [http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org] > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > [http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm] > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [http://www.members.re-wrenches.org] > > > > > > -- > > > [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zIGox3hmaGW8StlnANQvRdXBrTEgpee6ZmV_8h-pfWcEl7lwlqfhSqd2PgPh89cgzwpzfUzuuIGxKE] > > > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar [kirkh at vermont.solar] > > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > > Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!! > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > > 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Mar 16 11:19:59 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 11:19:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've only installed a couple of -4- inverter FX systems, prebuilt by OB, and both were factory programmed for a single master and 3 slaves. On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:12 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > The manual says to set a subphase master when doing split > phase with serial/parallel stacking, but I guess it's worth a try! > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:10 AM Kirk Herander > wrote: > >> Will the inverter support just 1 master and 3 slave configuration? This >> might enable all the slaves to charge. >> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:01 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There >>> is an L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned >>> to L1 or L2. >>> >>> And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters >>> (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). >>> >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But >>>> from what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. >>>> >>>> You can't have a master and slave on each leg. >>>> >>>> The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. >>>> >>>> The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that >>>> they are connected to. >>>> >>>> My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. >>>> >>>> Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the >>>> phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator >>>> isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master >>>> that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. >>>> >>>> >>>> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >>>> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >>>> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only >>>> for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or >>>> privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of >>>> or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is >>>> prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender >>>> and delete or destroy this message and all copies. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured >>>>> in 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I >>>>> configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting >>>>> max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from >>>>> a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at >>>>> all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >>>>> >>>>> Any ideas? >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.559.1225 >> > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 16 11:27:15 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 11:27:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, this is how they are configured. I may have misstated the port configuration previously. I agree - I think this is a matter of needing to discharge the batteries a bit deeper to get them all to wake up and charge simultaneously. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 11:17 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The slaves will naturally back off first. My first thought would be to > check when the batteries are low enough to accept a full bulk charge. > > Reading further through the thread it seem like the port assignment is the > culprit... > > Port 1 should be L1 master, port 2- L1 slave, port 7 L2 sub phase master, > port 8 L2 slave. > > Sunny Regards, > > Tyrone Houck > Oregon Solarworks LLC > CCB #204937 LRT #076 > 541-787-1366 > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There is >> an L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned to >> L1 or L2. >> >> And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters >> (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). >> >> >> Jason >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins >> wrote: >> >>> Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But from >>> what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. >>> >>> You can't have a master and slave on each leg. >>> >>> The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. >>> >>> The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that >>> they are connected to. >>> >>> My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. >>> >>> Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the >>> phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator >>> isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master >>> that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. >>> >>> >>> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >>> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >>> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >>> ------------------------------ >>> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for >>> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged >>> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the >>> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If >>> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or >>> destroy this message and all copies. >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured in >>>> 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I >>>> configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting >>>> max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from >>>> a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at >>>> all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >>>> >>>> Any ideas? >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 11:52:35 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 09:52:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A14737C-4099-43B5-96C3-44F3297940F0@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Mar 16 15:11:13 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:11:13 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery cables in conduit? Message-ID: Hi All, I have just completed a battery installation where the battery cables are run in free air for about 6" where they come out of a cabinet and go into a wire trough. The electrical inspector cannot give me a code reference to say that they have to be in conduit and is asking me to prove that they do not have to be in conduit. The cables are from BatterycablesUSA and are the ones noted below. I am also attaching a photo. The cables are coming from a drywalled battery box, just on the other side of that wood. I know that these cables are very often run not in conduit, but I am having trouble finding a reference that says that is okay. Does anyone have something in mind? Thanks! -Dave [image: image.png] -- Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 270-0370 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 97058 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260311_154759527.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1407194 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Mar 16 15:27:47 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 15:27:47 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery cables in conduit? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe cables such as DLO and MTW fine-strand, flex cables should have a CT rating also plainly stamped on the jacket and indicated on their spec sheet. That's what I've used in free air cable trays. On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 3:16 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I have just completed a battery installation where the battery cables are > run in free air for about 6" where they come out of a cabinet and go into a > wire trough. The electrical inspector cannot give me a code reference to > say that they have to be in conduit and is asking me to prove that they do > not have to be in conduit. The cables are from BatterycablesUSA and are the > ones noted below. I am also attaching a photo. The cables are coming from a > drywalled battery box, just on the other side of that wood. I know that > these cables are very often run not in conduit, but I am having trouble > finding a reference that says that is okay. Does anyone have something in > mind? > > Thanks! > -Dave > [image: image.png] > > -- > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 270-0370 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 97058 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 16:26:54 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2026 13:26:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery cables in conduit? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He could argue they are subject to physical damage but that's the only code I am aware of that would require them to be in conduit.. split loom should be sufficient if that's the case he's making. On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 12:33 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I believe cables such as DLO and MTW fine-strand, flex cables should have > a CT rating also plainly stamped on the jacket and indicated on their spec > sheet. That's what I've used in free air cable trays. > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 3:16 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I have just completed a battery installation where the battery cables are >> run in free air for about 6" where they come out of a cabinet and go into a >> wire trough. The electrical inspector cannot give me a code reference to >> say that they have to be in conduit and is asking me to prove that they do >> not have to be in conduit. The cables are from BatterycablesUSA and are the >> ones noted below. I am also attaching a photo. The cables are coming from a >> drywalled battery box, just on the other side of that wood. I know that >> these cables are very often run not in conduit, but I am having trouble >> finding a reference that says that is okay. Does anyone have something in >> mind? >> >> Thanks! >> -Dave >> [image: image.png] >> >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. >> >> >> | Ithaca, >> NY 14850 >> >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 270-0370 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 97058 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Tue Mar 17 06:52:02 2026 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2026 06:52:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR Slaves Not Charging With AC In-Reply-To: <1A14737C-4099-43B5-96C3-44F3297940F0@gmail.com> References: <1A14737C-4099-43B5-96C3-44F3297940F0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey Jason You may also want to verify that the global charge control settings in the Mate are disabled. You can also quickly play with switching ports on the Hub to see if its device specific issue or set up issue. Good Luck! On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 1:21 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Assuming it’s wired correctly which it sounds like it is . A few thoughts. > Inverter dc calibration, inverter charge voltage setpoints, and as someone > said how full are the batteries? > I can’t think of anything else. > > But if all else fails, and regardless of battery % it won’t act correctly > then I’d do a factory reset annd see if that fixes it. If not then update > rhw firmware on mate and all inverters. Of course you can try just the mate > update first which usually has been the most common fix. > > I have seen odd behaviors that could not be explained that firmware > reinstalled or updated fixed. I used to travel with all the firmware > updates on SD cards in my truck. > > Out of curiosity are these the new Outback or the old Outback equipment? > > Good luck > > > > On Mar 16, 2026, at 9:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > The manual says to set a subphase master when doing split > phase with serial/parallel stacking, but I guess it's worth a try! > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:10 AM Kirk Herander > wrote: > >> Will the inverter support just 1 master and 3 slave configuration? This >> might enable all the slaves to charge. >> >> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 11:01 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> The FXR manual supports the way it was installed and configured. There >>> is an L1 master and an L2 "subphase master." Each of the slaves is assigned >>> to L1 or L2. >>> >>> And BTW I do have the input mode set to Generator for all four inverters >>> (although the slaves take the setting from their masters anyway). >>> >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026 at 10:49 AM Steve Higgins >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Jason... I'll admit it's been awhile since I was with OB. But >>>> from what I remember you can only have one Master inverter. >>>> >>>> You can't have a master and slave on each leg. >>>> >>>> The port one inverter needs to be a 1 -2 phase master. >>>> >>>> The other three should be slave L1 or L2 depending on the phase that >>>> they are connected to. >>>> >>>> My bet is the charging isn't syncing due to the master/slave setup. >>>> >>>> Right now they aren't backfeeding due to the generator is syncing the >>>> phases. I like to call magic stacking. Eventually when the generator >>>> isn't running you could see enough drift from that 2nd 1-2 phase master >>>> that might cause a backfeed or overcurrent error. >>>> >>>> >>>> *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* >>>> *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 >>>> *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only >>>> for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or >>>> privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of >>>> or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is >>>> prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender >>>> and delete or destroy this message and all copies. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, 7:40 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I inherited am off-grid service client with four FXR3048A configured >>>>> in 120/240 split phase with one master and one slave per leg. I believe I >>>>> configured all of the AC input charging parameters correctly, requesting >>>>> max charge rate from each inverter. However, when AC input is present (from >>>>> a generator) the masters will bulk charge, but the slaves do not charge at >>>>> all. The slaves do share the load, but show 0.0kW for charging. >>>>> >>>>> Any ideas? >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.559.1225 >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mick at abrahamsolar.com Tue Mar 17 20:16:35 2026 From: mick at abrahamsolar.com (Mick Abraham) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2026 18:16:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tiny House "all in one" hardware hunt Message-ID: Hi, Wrenchies~ An off grid tiny home in my home county will only be occupied two days per week. The sole occupant has lived there for many moons. He knows about being spartan... except he legit needs to add more loads which would overtax the original energy system. I wish he could go "all modern" but as we know, cold temps are an issue with high tech batteries. Bluetti is now selling a small "all in one" with a 900wH sodium ion battery in the box. It may be more correct to call this a "solar generator" instead of an AIO, esp. since the Bluetti box can't sell into the grid. Link to Bluetti Pioneer NA General feedback on Bluetti brand would be welcomed, Wrenchies. A few consumers have posted reviews that are non-scientific & without much track time. My presale questions to Bluetti generated a ticket number but no human response. Will Prowse disses hard on sodium chemistry on his DIYsolar youtube channel. I know at least one of the List members has indicated that sodium is coming along, but I fear the challenge of care and feeding unless there's a legit sodium vendor with US warranty and correct guidance for care and feeding. So far, I'm not inspired to roll my own around sodium-ion. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Plan B" is lithium iron phosphate in a well insulated box with a thermostatically controlled heating mat ... plus oversized PV and battery so the system can ride through storms while keeping the battery OK. No generator; no automated space heating; other than the battery heating, cabin loads while unoccupied would approach zero watt-hours. Client doesn't want to add round the clock internet and he can't travel to the site every day to babysit. Yep, things could go sideways without plenty of PV and battery. I briefly considered Victron electronics but another goal is compact size for the indoor components ... and did I mention the budget is tight? "Ain't nothing simple in this world." Here's a Phocos item that is almost an "all in one" electronics bundle for tiny off grid: Phocos Any-Grid PSW-B Series PSW-B Series PSW-B-0.5KW-120-12V 500Watt 12VDC 120VAC Pure Sine Wave Battery Inverter/Charger Built in MPPT charge controller with 600 watt clipping point? "Check." Lithium compatible? "Check, but open loop only." Inverting plus charging if the client will ever add a generator? "Check, but the AC wattage both ways is ~ 500 watts." Built in digital display? "Check, but no amp-hour percentage tracking". This Phocos 500 is also more money than the client wants to spend (considering the Bluetti box includes the sodium battery for only $350 more). Are there similar inverter/chargers with built in MPPT... for less money compared to the Phocos... which are known reliable? Prolly I'd need to add an LVD control for DC loads, too. Any experience from the Wrenches with these Phocos inverters? Phocos has a German pedigree & much track time in the USA; some of their charge controllers disappointed me & clients, but that was long ago. I considered Victron separate components but that direction would go too bulky and too expensive at a fairly rapid clip. "Only a few simple requests today, Mechanix. The Wrench List is the Bomb!" Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Tue Mar 17 21:08:04 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2026 21:08:04 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tiny House "all in one" hardware hunt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <355840ce-776d-43cf-899a-bb16889db211@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at gmail.com Wed Mar 18 02:07:15 2026 From: lucchesesolar at gmail.com (Nick Lucchese) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2026 23:07:15 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tiny House "all in one" hardware hunt In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've had fairly good luck with the Phocos Anygrid 48v 6KW PSW series and currently still have one on a mobile solar trailer. A 5 person construction crew put it to the test to build a new home. A few random overloads but otherwise it performed very well with a compressor, table and miter saws. I have also installed one for a client but due to the site details I was forced to install it in an area against my preference. The main shortcoming is that it was in a greenhouse atrium connected to her house and it's cooling fans run 24/7. No way to defeat them. For the majority of installations it would have gone unnoticed but she was quite sensitive to it's continuous hum so I was forced to replace it. Technically the major weakness is it's inability to separate charge and load current when programming for AC input. Also it can only be done in 10 amp increments. The bluetooth app is quite buggy as well. You learn to deal with it but it's a major step back from what we're used to. The batteries optional feature is unique but not practical for most applications. I've purchased the Any-Bridge remote monitoring hardware but have yet to set it up so no feedback there. Have you looked into the Mango Power units? Their price came down considerably a few months ago. Good luck with your project, Nick On Tue, Mar 17, 2026 at 5:20 PM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi, Wrenchies~ An off grid tiny home in my home county will only be > occupied two days per week. The sole occupant has lived there for many > moons. He knows about being spartan... except he legit needs to add more > loads which would overtax the original energy system. I wish he could go > "all modern" but as we know, cold temps are an issue with high tech > batteries. Bluetti is now selling a small "all in one" with a 900wH sodium > ion battery in the box. It may be more correct to call this a "solar > generator" instead of an AIO, esp. since the Bluetti box can't sell into > the grid. > > Link to Bluetti Pioneer NA > > > > General feedback on Bluetti brand would be welcomed, Wrenchies. A few > consumers have posted reviews that are non-scientific & without much track > time. My presale questions to Bluetti generated a ticket number but no > human response. Will Prowse disses hard on sodium chemistry on his DIYsolar > youtube channel. > > I know at least one of the List members has indicated that sodium is > coming along, but I fear the challenge of care and feeding unless there's a > legit sodium vendor with US warranty and correct guidance for care and > feeding. So far, I'm not inspired to roll my own around sodium-ion. > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > "Plan B" is lithium iron phosphate in a well insulated box with a > thermostatically controlled heating mat ... plus oversized PV and battery > so the system can ride through storms while keeping the battery OK. No > generator; no automated space heating; other than the battery heating, > cabin loads while unoccupied would approach zero watt-hours. Client doesn't > want to add round the clock internet and he can't travel to the site every > day to babysit. Yep, things could go sideways without plenty of PV and > battery. > > I briefly considered Victron electronics but another goal is compact size > for the indoor components ... and did I mention the budget is tight? "Ain't > nothing simple in this world." Here's a Phocos item that is almost an "all > in one" electronics bundle for tiny off grid: > > Phocos Any-Grid PSW-B Series PSW-B Series PSW-B-0.5KW-120-12V 500Watt > 12VDC 120VAC Pure Sine Wave Battery Inverter/Charger > > > Built in MPPT charge controller with 600 watt clipping point? "Check." > Lithium compatible? "Check, but open loop only." Inverting plus charging if > the client will ever add a generator? "Check, but the AC wattage both ways > is ~ 500 watts." Built in digital display? "Check, but no amp-hour > percentage tracking". This Phocos 500 is also more money than the client > wants to spend (considering the Bluetti box includes the sodium battery for > only $350 more). Are there similar inverter/chargers with built in MPPT... > for less money compared to the Phocos... which are known reliable? Prolly > I'd need to add an LVD control for DC loads, too. > > Any experience from the Wrenches with these Phocos inverters? Phocos has a > German pedigree & much track time in the USA; some of their charge > controllers disappointed me & clients, but that was long ago. I considered > Victron separate components but that direction would go too bulky and too > expensive at a fairly rapid clip. > > "Only a few simple requests today, Mechanix. The Wrench List is the Bomb!" > > Mick Abraham, Proprietor > www.abrahamsolar.com > > Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Wed Mar 18 11:53:24 2026 From: travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com (Travis Knipple) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2026 10:53:24 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solark installers at NABCEP conference Message-ID: Hey all, We're pretty new to installing Solark 15ks I was wondering if anyone here would be willing to meet with me at the Conference, review pics from our last few installations and give me some feedback for more efficient installations. Thanks Travis Knipple Senior Engineer Hudson Solar Solutions LLC Rhinebeck, NY 12572 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Direct Line: 814-241-4211 PVIP# PV-111821-013612 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Wed Mar 18 16:32:33 2026 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2026 13:32:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery cables in conduit? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Generally, exposed low-voltage battery cables are given a pass in the vicinity of the batteries, but from your photo it appears that you are looking for approval to run exposed cables through the wall before reaching reaching an approved wiring method. Consider: NEC 480.12 Battery interconnections. Allows flexible 2/0 and larger wire to be run from the battery to a nearby junction box where they shall be connected to an approved wiring method. Is the cabinet nearby? Can it be considered nearby on the opposite side of the wall? NEC 300.4 Protection from physical damage. If the wires are in a readily accessible location they probably are subject to physical damage. If your installation is in a power shed or a room with a locked door you might have an argument that they are not subject to physical damage. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 3/16/2026 12:11 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi All, > > I have just completed a battery installation where the battery cables > are run in free air for about 6" where they come out of a cabinet and > go into a wire trough. The electrical inspector cannot give me a code > reference to say that they have to be in conduit and is asking me to > prove that they do not have to be in conduit. The cables are from > BatterycablesUSA and are the ones noted below. I am also attaching a > photo. The cables are coming from a drywalled battery box, just on the > other side of that wood. I know that these cables are very often run > not in conduit, but I am having trouble finding a reference that says > that is okay. Does anyone have something in mind? > > Thanks! > -Dave > image.png > > -- > > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 270-0370 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 97058 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Jharen.Poole at sol-ark.com Thu Mar 19 10:39:28 2026 From: Jharen.Poole at sol-ark.com (Poole, Jharen) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2026 14:39:28 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solark installers at NABCEP conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have any questions regarding the Sol-Ark 15K inverter, we have a highly experienced application engineer who has extensive hands on experience with this model and can provide detailed guidance. You can catch him helping out at our booth (211/310). Ask for Jose C. and he'll be happy to help out. Best Regards, Jharen Poole Applications Engineer II 972-575-8875 [cid:a360b1ab-f3ac-422b-b8d3-0b7f2b0de10f] ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Travis Knipple via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2026 10:53 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Travis Knipple Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solark installers at NABCEP conference Caution: This email is from an external source. Hey all, We're pretty new to installing Solark 15ks I was wondering if anyone here would be willing to meet with me at the Conference, review pics from our last few installations and give me some feedback for more efficient installations. Thanks Travis Knipple Senior Engineer Hudson Solar Solutions LLC Rhinebeck, NY 12572 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Direct Line: 814-241-4211 [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wuT0Jf3z34mlt7_aUK-QOs2RIbM5kO1oBpUVNKSFuc5ADydVvuRPMkmhWoT1Bglre_AATVNHA1BkN_] PVIP# PV-111821-013612 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-s5faafis.png Type: image/png Size: 82002 bytes Desc: Outlook-s5faafis.png URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Mar 21 01:22:18 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2026 22:22:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads Message-ID: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> Friends: A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house. They started off-grid but they are now grid connected. In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU. This provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor of an induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration). A sample two burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power draw for this feeder. I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to run the induction cook-top might solve this problem. The 10 amp power feed can charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable amperage over an extended time period and the power station can provide enough surge power to run the cook-top intermittently. I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more than 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, when running at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other loads. I presume this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal battery is fully discharged. Maybe other units can charge at a lower rate. Have any of you tried this? Any input is appreciated. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jj at aprsworld.com Sat Mar 21 10:21:14 2026 From: jj at aprsworld.com (James Jarvis) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 09:21:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Why not convert the 755' wire to 240 volt and put a small transformer on ADU end for the 120 volt loads? -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 http://www.aprsworld.com/ On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 12:23 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house. They > started off-grid but they are now grid connected. > > > > In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU. This > provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. > > > > This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor of an > induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration). A sample two > burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power draw for this > feeder. > > > > I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to run > the induction cook-top might solve this problem. The 10 amp power feed can > charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable amperage over an > extended time period and the power station can provide enough surge power > to run the cook-top intermittently. > > > > I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more than > 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, when running > at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other loads. I presume > this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal battery is fully > discharged. Maybe other units can charge at a lower rate. > > > > Have any of you tried this? Any input is appreciated. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david2coale at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 12:01:42 2026 From: david2coale at gmail.com (David Coale) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 09:01:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You could put a timer on the power station so that it charges at night when there are minimal loads and runs the induction cooktop during the day. David On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 10:23 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house. They > started off-grid but they are now grid connected. > > > > In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU. This > provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. > > > > This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor of an > induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration). A sample two > burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power draw for this > feeder. > > > > I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to run > the induction cook-top might solve this problem. The 10 amp power feed can > charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable amperage over an > extended time period and the power station can provide enough surge power > to run the cook-top intermittently. > > > > I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more than > 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, when running > at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other loads. I presume > this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal battery is fully > discharged. Maybe other units can charge at a lower rate. > > > > Have any of you tried this? Any input is appreciated. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Sat Mar 21 15:48:58 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 15:48:58 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback firmware updates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c900710-67f4-42c1-a36e-14a5ad83a7cd@entech-engineering.com> Hi All, I researched the email archives and could not find anyone else having this problem in the last two years, so I am posting before trying to get Outback support. I resurrected Optics by using an old Mate 3s spare I had, replacing my Mate 3, and adding a wifi sender to go from barn to office. I wanted to update the firmware. On the Outback Power website,  there is a link to firmware, but there is nothing there. Even the archive section is a blank. Does anyone know if firmware exists? Thank you, Chris -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Sat Mar 21 15:52:49 2026 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 12:52:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Quantum Fiber References: <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Sat Mar 21 15:57:25 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 12:57:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I like Mr. Coale’s timer idea. Also there are electric cooktops that have their own built-in battery. I don’t know if any mfr makes a 120v version, but it seems like it would be a good solution. On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 9:02 AM David Coale via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You could put a timer on the power station so that it charges at night > when there are minimal loads and runs the induction cooktop during the day. > > David > > On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 10:23 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Friends: >> >> >> >> A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house. They >> started off-grid but they are now grid connected. >> >> >> >> In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU. This >> provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. >> >> >> >> This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor of an >> induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration). A sample two >> burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power draw for this >> feeder. >> >> >> >> I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to run >> the induction cook-top might solve this problem. The 10 amp power feed can >> charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable amperage over an >> extended time period and the power station can provide enough surge power >> to run the cook-top intermittently. >> >> >> >> I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more >> than 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, when >> running at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other loads. I >> presume this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal battery is >> fully discharged. Maybe other units can charge at a lower rate. >> >> >> >> Have any of you tried this? Any input is appreciated. >> >> >> >> William >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA License C-10 77398 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 15:58:23 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 13:58:23 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback firmware updates In-Reply-To: <9c900710-67f4-42c1-a36e-14a5ad83a7cd@entech-engineering.com> References: <9c900710-67f4-42c1-a36e-14a5ad83a7cd@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <76EE64E7-E28D-431D-B4D1-B23D89468CC5@gmail.com> try document downloads. I’ve found it there before. > On Mar 21, 2026, at 1:48 PM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, I researched the email archives and could not find anyone else having this problem in the last two years, so I am posting before trying to get Outback support. > > > I resurrected Optics by using an old Mate 3s spare I had, replacing my Mate 3, and adding a wifi sender to go from barn to office. > > I wanted to update the firmware. On the Outback Power website, there is a link to firmware, but there is nothing there. Even the archive section is a blank. > > Does anyone know if firmware exists? > > > Thank you, Chris > > > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From david at quattrosolar.com Sat Mar 21 16:05:40 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 13:05:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Quantum Fiber In-Reply-To: <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5@yahoo.com> References: <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5.ref@yahoo.com> <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Some inverter mfrs require a couple specific router ports to be open, and it sounds like this might not be possible with the Quantum Fiber wireless. On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 12:54 PM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We have a client who just installed Quantum Fiber as their Internet > provider. They were successfully able to hook up their TVs and security > cameras without a problem. However, their Enphase gateway would not > connect. After an inordinate amount of time on the phone with Enphase, it > was determined by Enphase that their gateways do not operate with Quantum > Fiber unless hardwired with an with ethernet cable. Something about a > mesh system. > > Thoughts? > > > *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* > President > > > *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* > > *Since 1987,** helping you and your * > *Portland neighbors move** towards an environmentally sustainable future.* > > > *503-238-4502 <503-238-4502>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 17:18:00 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 14:18:00 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Quantum Fiber In-Reply-To: References: <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5.ref@yahoo.com> <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not sure about enphase but most inverters need a 2.4ghz band.. alot of time fiber providers install a router that has a 5g/6e or something like that.. typically has both bands built in with a firewall that requires logging in to the network settings and allowing the device access. Alternatively you could install a secondary router or extender to convert it to a 2.4. Or a wifi to access point to get the cables connection.. Best of luck! On Sat, Mar 21, 2026, 1:30 PM David Quattro via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Some inverter mfrs require a couple specific router ports to be open, and > it sounds like this might not be possible with the Quantum Fiber wireless. > > > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 12:54 PM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We have a client who just installed Quantum Fiber as their Internet >> provider. They were successfully able to hook up their TVs and security >> cameras without a problem. However, their Enphase gateway would not >> connect. After an inordinate amount of time on the phone with Enphase, it >> was determined by Enphase that their gateways do not operate with Quantum >> Fiber unless hardwired with an with ethernet cable. Something about a >> mesh system. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* >> President >> >> >> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* >> >> *Since 1987,** helping you and your * >> *Portland neighbors move** towards an environmentally sustainable >> future.* >> >> >> *503-238-4502 <503-238-4502>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com >> * >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 17:21:06 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 15:21:06 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6B74B822-29E3-4726-9208-6AB35CFF597B@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Sat Mar 21 20:37:24 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 20:37:24 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Quantum Fiber In-Reply-To: References: <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5.ref@yahoo.com> <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Installing a wifi adapter (something like the TP Link AC 750) is very simple and straightforward. The you just need to run a cable from that to the Gateway. Cheers, Dave On Sat, Mar 21, 2026, 5:33 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Not sure about enphase but most inverters need a 2.4ghz band.. alot of > time fiber providers install a router that has a 5g/6e or something like > that.. typically has both bands built in with a firewall that requires > logging in to the network settings and allowing the device access. > Alternatively you could install a secondary router or extender to convert > it to a 2.4. Or a wifi to access point to get the cables connection.. Best > of luck! > > > > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2026, 1:30 PM David Quattro via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Some inverter mfrs require a couple specific router ports to be open, and >> it sounds like this might not be possible with the Quantum Fiber wireless. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 12:54 PM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> We have a client who just installed Quantum Fiber as their Internet >>> provider. They were successfully able to hook up their TVs and security >>> cameras without a problem. However, their Enphase gateway would not >>> connect. After an inordinate amount of time on the phone with Enphase, it >>> was determined by Enphase that their gateways do not operate with Quantum >>> Fiber unless hardwired with an with ethernet cable. Something about a >>> mesh system. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> >>> >>> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* >>> President >>> >>> >>> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* >>> >>> *Since 1987,** helping you and your * >>> *Portland neighbors move** towards an environmentally sustainable >>> future.* >>> >>> >>> *503-238-4502 <503-238-4502>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com >>> * >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sat Mar 21 21:20:29 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 19:20:29 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: <6B74B822-29E3-4726-9208-6AB35CFF597B@gmail.com> References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> <6B74B822-29E3-4726-9208-6AB35CFF597B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f711f5c-7857-44e5-932a-eb6ecf6509a4@solarray.com> I remember doing some measurements on a long wire run, and being surprised that the actual voltage drop was much less than the calculations.  That's when I found a small note at the bottom of the NEC Table 8 conductor properties used for official VD calculations.   The resistance is listed at 167 F (75C), so if you use the adjustment equation in Note 2, it is much less VD, and corresponds to reality.  For underground conductors, I might use 25C.  Use common sense. The formula is R2=R1 (1+ a(T2-75)) I made a spread sheet about 15 years ago, that uses that formula for doing wire sizing.  Happy to share, if anyone is interested. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 3/21/2026 3:21 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Are you trying to run the whole house or just the burner? > I’m also curious about how you calculated the VD. I ran it on a few > programs and it came up much less VD. I’d go direct or try the load > and measure the VD. It won’t use the full power for long. Or at least > when I use my induction top it takes so short to bring anything to a > boil, after that it’s turned down. > Lots of options. > >> On Mar 20, 2026, at 11:23 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> Friends: >> >> A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house.  >> They started off-grid but they are now grid connected. >> >> In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU.  This >> provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. >> >> This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor >> of an induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration).  >> A sample two burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power >> draw for this feeder. >> >> I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to >> run the induction cook-top might solve this problem.  The 10 amp >> power feed can charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable >> amperage over an extended time period and the power station can >> provide enough surge power to run the cook-top intermittently. >> >> I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more >> than 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, >> when running at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other >> loads.  I presume this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal >> battery is fully discharged.  Maybe other units can charge at a lower >> rate. >> >> Have any of you tried this?  Any input is appreciated. >> >> William >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA License C-10 77398 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Mar 21 23:36:18 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 20:36:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: <2f711f5c-7857-44e5-932a-eb6ecf6509a4@solarray.com> References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> <6B74B822-29E3-4726-9208-6AB35CFF597B@gmail.com> <2f711f5c-7857-44e5-932a-eb6ecf6509a4@solarray.com> Message-ID: Thanks everyone for the input. Here are answers to some of the questions: I have a heat gun that runs right at 1300 watts (10.8 amps). I made before and after voltage measurements and got 6.5% voltage drop. (124 VAC versus 116 VAC). My spreadsheet predicts 3.4% VD. There are some Polaris splices that might contribute to the overall resistance. My plan would to power only the cooktop with the integrated inerter/battery/charger unit, if this becomes the decision. I like the all in one unit because I don’t want the complexity and foot-print of separate inverter and battery array. This ADU is a rental and the owners are elderly and need plug and play simplicity. We could bump the circuit to 240 VAC, or higher, for that matter. However there is an off-grid home in the middle of this feeder that taps off 120 VAC very occasionally to get through cloudy/low hydro days. Then we would need three transformers. I did recall that there are induction cooktops with batteries built in . I need to research that more thoroughly. Still pondering. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Saturday, March 21, 2026 6:20 PM *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org *Cc:* Ray Walters *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads I remember doing some measurements on a long wire run, and being surprised that the actual voltage drop was much less than the calculations. That's when I found a small note at the bottom of the NEC Table 8 conductor properties used for official VD calculations. The resistance is listed at 167 F (75C), so if you use the adjustment equation in Note 2, it is much less VD, and corresponds to reality. For underground conductors, I might use 25C. Use common sense. The formula is R2=R1 (1+ a(T2-75)) I made a spread sheet about 15 years ago, that uses that formula for doing wire sizing. Happy to share, if anyone is interested. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 3/21/2026 3:21 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: Are you trying to run the whole house or just the burner? I’m also curious about how you calculated the VD. I ran it on a few programs and it came up much less VD. I’d go direct or try the load and measure the VD. It won’t use the full power for long. Or at least when I use my induction top it takes so short to bring anything to a boil, after that it’s turned down. Lots of options. On Mar 20, 2026, at 11:23 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:  Friends: A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house. They started off-grid but they are now grid connected. In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU. This provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor of an induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration). A sample two burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power draw for this feeder. I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to run the induction cook-top might solve this problem. The 10 amp power feed can charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable amperage over an extended time period and the power station can provide enough surge power to run the cook-top intermittently. I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more than 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, when running at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other loads. I presume this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal battery is fully discharged. Maybe other units can charge at a lower rate. Have any of you tried this? Any input is appreciated. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david2coale at gmail.com Sat Mar 21 23:56:03 2026 From: david2coale at gmail.com (David Coale) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2026 20:56:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> <6B74B822-29E3-4726-9208-6AB35CFF597B@gmail.com> <2f711f5c-7857-44e5-932a-eb6ecf6509a4@solarray.com> Message-ID: Hi William, Thanks for the summary. I have been collecting information on 120-volt induction cooking solutions, which are listed below. Most of these are probably too big for an ADU, but this is what I have so far David Induction cooktop info The best portable one-burner induction cooktops: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-portable-induction-cooktop/ Copper induction range with a battery – only 120-volt outlet required: https://copperhome.com/products/charlie Impulse induction cooktop only with a battery – only 120-volt outlet required: https://www.impulselabs.com/ Electra stove with a battery https://cleantechnica.com/2025/11/25/electra-just-made-switching-to-induction-as-easy-as-plugging-in-a-toaster/ On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 8:38 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Thanks everyone for the input. Here are answers to some of the questions: > > > > I have a heat gun that runs right at 1300 watts (10.8 amps). I made > before and after voltage measurements and got 6.5% voltage drop. (124 VAC > versus 116 VAC). > > > > My spreadsheet predicts 3.4% VD. There are some Polaris splices that > might contribute to the overall resistance. > > > > My plan would to power only the cooktop with the integrated > inerter/battery/charger unit, if this becomes the decision. > > > > I like the all in one unit because I don’t want the complexity and > foot-print of separate inverter and battery array. This ADU is a rental > and the owners are elderly and need plug and play simplicity. > > > > We could bump the circuit to 240 VAC, or higher, for that matter. However > there is an off-grid home in the middle of this feeder that taps off 120 > VAC very occasionally to get through cloudy/low hydro days. Then we would > need three transformers. > > > > I did recall that there are induction cooktops with batteries built in . > I need to research that more thoroughly. > > > > Still pondering. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Saturday, March 21, 2026 6:20 PM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Ray Walters > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads > > > > I remember doing some measurements on a long wire run, and being surprised > that the actual voltage drop was much less than the calculations. That's > when I found a small note at the bottom of the NEC Table 8 conductor > properties used for official VD calculations. The resistance is listed at > 167 F (75C), so if you use the adjustment equation in Note 2, it is much > less VD, and corresponds to reality. For underground conductors, I might > use 25C. Use common sense. > > The formula is R2=R1 (1+ a(T2-75)) > > I made a spread sheet about 15 years ago, that uses that formula for doing > wire sizing. Happy to share, if anyone is interested. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > On 3/21/2026 3:21 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Are you trying to run the whole house or just the burner? > > I’m also curious about how you calculated the VD. I ran it on a few > programs and it came up much less VD. I’d go direct or try the load and > measure the VD. It won’t use the full power for long. Or at least when I > use my induction top it takes so short to bring anything to a boil, after > that it’s turned down. > > Lots of options. > > > > On Mar 20, 2026, at 11:23 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches > > wrote: > >  > > Friends: > > > > A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house. They > started off-grid but they are now grid connected. > > > > In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU. This > provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. > > > > This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor of an > induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration). A sample two > burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power draw for this > feeder. > > > > I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to run > the induction cook-top might solve this problem. The 10 amp power feed can > charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable amperage over an > extended time period and the power station can provide enough surge power > to run the cook-top intermittently. > > > > I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more than > 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, when running > at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other loads. I presume > this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal battery is fully > discharged. Maybe other units can charge at a lower rate. > > > > Have any of you tried this? Any input is appreciated. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Mar 22 10:37:25 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2026 10:37:25 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Quantum Fiber In-Reply-To: References: <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5.ref@yahoo.com> <13CD6005-2019-4BD3-AE0D-131248E444A5@yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is a good answer. You could also use an extender that can connect to a 5GHz band and broadcast a 2.4GHz band to relay the Wi-Fi signal for the Gateway. Also, make sure the SSID and password don't have any punctuation characters. Enphase Gateways don't like certain ones, like ampersands and hashtags. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 8:39 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Installing a wifi adapter (something like the TP Link AC 750) is very > simple and straightforward. The you just need to run a cable from that to > the Gateway. > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2026, 5:33 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Not sure about enphase but most inverters need a 2.4ghz band.. alot of >> time fiber providers install a router that has a 5g/6e or something like >> that.. typically has both bands built in with a firewall that requires >> logging in to the network settings and allowing the device access. >> Alternatively you could install a secondary router or extender to convert >> it to a 2.4. Or a wifi to access point to get the cables connection.. Best >> of luck! >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2026, 1:30 PM David Quattro via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Some inverter mfrs require a couple specific router ports to be open, >>> and it sounds like this might not be possible with the Quantum Fiber >>> wireless. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 12:54 PM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> We have a client who just installed Quantum Fiber as their Internet >>>> provider. They were successfully able to hook up their TVs and security >>>> cameras without a problem. However, their Enphase gateway would not >>>> connect. After an inordinate amount of time on the phone with Enphase, it >>>> was determined by Enphase that their gateways do not operate with Quantum >>>> Fiber unless hardwired with an with ethernet cable. Something about a >>>> mesh system. >>>> >>>> Thoughts? >>>> >>>> >>>> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* >>>> President >>>> >>>> >>>> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* >>>> >>>> *Since 1987,** helping you and your * >>>> *Portland neighbors move** towards an environmentally sustainable >>>> future.* >>>> >>>> >>>> *503-238-4502 <503-238-4502>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com >>>> * >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sun Mar 22 11:19:52 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Pay App Approval Confimation) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2026 15:19:52 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> <6B74B822-29E3-4726-9208-6AB35CFF597B@gmail.com> <2f711f5c-7857-44e5-932a-eb6ecf6509a4@solarray.com> Message-ID: Love to see it Ray I have used an Electrocalc calculator for years & the results seem overly conservative not that that is a bad thing at low voltages. But dam quick. Sent from my iPad On Mar 21, 2026, at 9:59 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote:  Hi William, Thanks for the summary. I have been collecting information on 120-volt induction cooking solutions, which are listed below. Most of these are probably too big for an ADU, but this is what I have so far David Induction cooktop info The best portable one-burner induction cooktops: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-portable-induction-cooktop/ Copper induction range with a battery – only 120-volt outlet required: https://copperhome.com/products/charlie Impulse induction cooktop only with a battery – only 120-volt outlet required: https://www.impulselabs.com/ Electra stove with a battery https://cleantechnica.com/2025/11/25/electra-just-made-switching-to-induction-as-easy-as-plugging-in-a-toaster/ On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 8:38 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: Thanks everyone for the input. Here are answers to some of the questions: I have a heat gun that runs right at 1300 watts (10.8 amps). I made before and after voltage measurements and got 6.5% voltage drop. (124 VAC versus 116 VAC). My spreadsheet predicts 3.4% VD. There are some Polaris splices that might contribute to the overall resistance. My plan would to power only the cooktop with the integrated inerter/battery/charger unit, if this becomes the decision. I like the all in one unit because I don’t want the complexity and foot-print of separate inverter and battery array. This ADU is a rental and the owners are elderly and need plug and play simplicity. We could bump the circuit to 240 VAC, or higher, for that matter. However there is an off-grid home in the middle of this feeder that taps off 120 VAC very occasionally to get through cloudy/low hydro days. Then we would need three transformers. I did recall that there are induction cooktops with batteries built in . I need to research that more thoroughly. Still pondering. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2026 6:20 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Ray Walters Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads I remember doing some measurements on a long wire run, and being surprised that the actual voltage drop was much less than the calculations. That's when I found a small note at the bottom of the NEC Table 8 conductor properties used for official VD calculations. The resistance is listed at 167 F (75C), so if you use the adjustment equation in Note 2, it is much less VD, and corresponds to reality. For underground conductors, I might use 25C. Use common sense. The formula is R2=R1 (1+ a(T2-75)) I made a spread sheet about 15 years ago, that uses that formula for doing wire sizing. Happy to share, if anyone is interested. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 3/21/2026 3:21 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: Are you trying to run the whole house or just the burner? I’m also curious about how you calculated the VD. I ran it on a few programs and it came up much less VD. I’d go direct or try the load and measure the VD. It won’t use the full power for long. Or at least when I use my induction top it takes so short to bring anything to a boil, after that it’s turned down. Lots of options. On Mar 20, 2026, at 11:23 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:  Friends: A long-time client has an ADU 755 conduit feet from the main house. They started off-grid but they are now grid connected. In 1999 we pulled a 120 volt feeder of #1 aluminum to the ADU. This provides about 10 amps at 5% voltage drop. This client wants to abandon a propane cook-top in the ADU in favor of an induction cook-top (indoor air pollution as a consideration). A sample two burner induction cook-top is 1800 watts--too much power draw for this feeder. I was wondering if a portable power station rated at enough power to run the induction cook-top might solve this problem. The 10 amp power feed can charge the power station at (hopefully) an acceptable amperage over an extended time period and the power station can provide enough surge power to run the cook-top intermittently. I see the Bluetti AC500, for example, can be adjusted to draw no more than 10 amps when plugged into AC. Unfortunately this charge rate, when running at the full 10 amps, allows little overhead for other loads. I presume this 10 amps draw is only 10 amps when the internal battery is fully discharged. Maybe other units can charge at a lower rate. Have any of you tried this? Any input is appreciated. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sun Mar 22 13:42:49 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2026 11:42:49 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: References: <3a4e638c66cdb72002f3d00a97af3356@mail.gmail.com> <6B74B822-29E3-4726-9208-6AB35CFF597B@gmail.com> <2f711f5c-7857-44e5-932a-eb6ecf6509a4@solarray.com> Message-ID: <1fd73d6b-af0c-470b-b967-2a7f2289890f@solarray.com> Here's the spread sheet.  It also compares cost vs lost power of different wire sizes, has NEC ampacity, etc. Yellow boxes are for you to make adjustments to temp, voltage, current, # wires in conduit, etc.  LMK, if something needs to be changed or updated. I've been using it and tweeking it for many years.  For instance I just updated all the per foot cost of the different wire sizes.  I used to use it to see if using over sized wire was worth it, vs just adding  more PV. Have Fun; Ray Walters Solarray, Inc. On 3/22/2026 9:19 AM, Pay App Approval Confimation via RE-wrenches wrote: > Love to see it Ray > I have used an Electrocalc calculator for years & the results seem > overly conservative not that that is a bad thing at low voltages. But > dam quick. > Sent from my iPad > >> On Mar 21, 2026, at 9:59 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WireSizer2.2.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 37888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Mar 22 15:50:51 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2026 12:50:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and Quantum Fiber In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A lot of inverters (and other monitoring equipment as well) will only connect to a 2.4GHz wifi. And more and more ISP's are providing routers that default to 5Ghz, or a mesh network. If it's my own, I go in and turn off the 5Ghz (or at least add a 2.4Ghz) usually as 5Ghz is actually worse performance than 2.4Ghz for ISP's under about 200Mbps speed, in my opinion. But what I think is best practice for installs, and what I've tried to start doing, is add a 2.4Ghz router specifically for IoT things, like inverters. That way, when the customer gets a new ISP with a new ISP provided router, all you have to do is reconnect the IoT router to the ISP provided router (either with a hardwire cable, or programming the IoT router to rebroadcast the new ISP wifi). Instead of having to go through possibly dozens of different IoT devices and reprogram them all to a new wifi SSID and password. If you do this, you should probably put a label on the IoT router so the customer doesn't throw it away though... I've had them do that when they clean up their office, they don't know what some piece of equipment is, and throw it out. Had many of them do that for the ethernet over powerline adaptors for the earlier egauge units, then call me up to ask why their monitoring didn't work any more -- and being an obsolete adaptor, you couldn't even just buy a replacement. Z -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coresolar at gmail.com Sun Mar 22 22:06:17 2026 From: coresolar at gmail.com (Corey Shalanski) Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2026 21:06:17 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ray, RE. the *NEC* Chapter 9 Table 8 resistance adjustment formula: I believe temperature T2 is the operating temperature of the conductor - not necessarily ambient temperature... unless I'm mistaken? Corey Shalanski Jah Light Solar Portland, Jamaica On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 7:20 PM Ray Walters wrote: > I remember doing some measurements on a long wire run, and being surprised > that the actual voltage drop was much less than the calculations. That's > when I found a small note at the bottom of the NEC Table 8 conductor > properties used for official VD calculations. The resistance is listed at > 167 F (75C), so if you use the adjustment equation in Note 2, it is much > less VD, and corresponds to reality. For underground conductors, I might > use 25C. Use common sense. > > The formula is R2=R1 (1+ a(T2-75)) > > I made a spread sheet about 15 years ago, that uses that formula for doing > wire sizing. Happy to share, if anyone is interested. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon Mar 23 11:40:46 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2026 09:40:46 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Portable power station for surge loads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, T2 is the conductor temp.  I use 25C for wire in underground conduit that around here is close to earth temp, 15C.  Just depends on how much current is flowing, but the idea of doing volt drop calcs with the wires running at max temp seems over kill in many cases.  75C means that you are 1C away from exceeding the temp rating of many of the connector lugs. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 3/22/2026 8:06 PM, Corey Shalanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Ray, > > RE. the /NEC/ Chapter 9 Table 8 resistance adjustment formula: I > believe temperature T2 is the operating temperature of the conductor - > not necessarily ambient temperature... unless I'm mistaken? > > Corey Shalanski > Jah Light Solar > Portland, Jamaica > > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 7:20 PM Ray Walters  wrote: > > I remember doing some measurements on a long wire run, and being > surprised that the actual voltage drop was much less than the > calculations.  That's when I found a small note at the bottom of > the NEC Table 8 conductor properties used for official VD > calculations.   The resistance is listed at 167 F (75C), so if you > use the adjustment equation in Note 2, it is much less VD, and > corresponds to reality.  For underground conductors, I might use > 25C.  Use common sense. > > The formula is R2=R1 (1+ a(T2-75)) > > I made a spread sheet about 15 years ago, that uses that formula > for doing wire sizing.  Happy to share, if anyone is interested. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Wed Mar 25 11:53:43 2026 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 08:53:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta Message-ID: Wrenches, I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? Michael ? -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric Inc PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 1116835 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Wed Mar 25 12:09:35 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 09:09:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Even if some amalgamation of hardware could play along, personally I wouldn’t do it. It’s out of the ballpark with all major brands. Your highest voltage will be 120v, thus your amps would be high. Sounds like a warranty nightmare. I think that restaurant needs to upgrade their electric On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 8:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV > and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the > service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a > 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and > run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that > arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that > something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 > degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 > Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are > micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight > grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? > Michael > ? > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Wed Mar 25 12:11:11 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 09:11:11 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you sure they are out of phase? or is it Zero volts from L to L? On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 9:09 AM David Quattro wrote: > Even if some amalgamation of hardware could play along, personally I > wouldn’t do it. It’s out of the ballpark with all major brands. Your > highest voltage will be 120v, thus your amps would be high. Sounds like a > warranty nightmare. I think that restaurant needs to upgrade their electric > > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 8:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, >> I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV >> and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the >> service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a >> 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and >> run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that >> arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that >> something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 >> degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 >> Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are >> micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight >> grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? >> Michael >> ? >> -- >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> >> Morningstar Electric Inc >> >> PO Box 1494 >> >> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >> >> 530-921-0560 >> >> CSLB 1116835 >> >> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kienan at maxfield.solar Wed Mar 25 12:23:30 2026 From: kienan at maxfield.solar (Kienan Maxfield) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 10:23:30 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is easily within the capabilities of Victron. Victron can handle any of these voltage configurations natively without need for extra non-Victron adaptation hardware. This would not end up being an amalgamation of hardware. I am curious which two legs were run and what you’re line to line voltage is and line to ground voltage (from each line) and all of that. I am also curious how many KW your target size is Thanks, Kienan www.distribution.solar On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 10:15 AM David Quattro via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Are you sure they are out of phase? or is it Zero volts from L to L? > > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 9:09 AM David Quattro > wrote: > >> Even if some amalgamation of hardware could play along, personally I >> wouldn’t do it. It’s out of the ballpark with all major brands. Your >> highest voltage will be 120v, thus your amps would be high. Sounds like a >> warranty nightmare. I think that restaurant needs to upgrade their electric >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 8:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Wrenches, >>> I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV >>> and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the >>> service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a >>> 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and >>> run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that >>> arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that >>> something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 >>> degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 >>> Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are >>> micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight >>> grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? >>> Michael >>> ? >>> -- >>> >>> Michael Morningstar >>> >>> >>> Morningstar Electric Inc >>> >>> PO Box 1494 >>> >>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >>> >>> 530-921-0560 >>> >>> CSLB 1116835 >>> >>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Mar 25 12:27:20 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 12:27:20 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We do high-leg Delta commercial jobs occasionally, although I have never done a battery backup, but it should not matter if they are only using the two 120V legs to supply 120/240V split-phase service. The A and C legs of 120V to neutral should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other and work fine with any split-phase inverter. Just make sure you are not using the wild leg that is 208V to neutral, if that is even delivered to the customer from the utility. Most of the time, what we see is a 4-wire delivery to the customer with a 3-phase panelboard, and every third breaker space is empty. They are only using 120V and 240V circuits. We find this in light commercial settings in older industrial parks. The other thing to consider is whether the utility will have an issue with an unbalanced backfeed. FPL does not care around here as long as it's under 50kWac. They allow netmetering on two legs of a 240V delta high-leg service. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 11:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV > and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the > service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a > 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and > run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that > arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that > something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 > degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 > Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are > micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight > grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? > Michael > ? > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Wed Mar 25 13:03:14 2026 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 10:03:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, The two phases are 120V L-N and 240 L-L. The "high leg" was not run to the service. Kienan, I do recall seeing a 120 degree phase angle option when I commissioned a split phase system using Quatros. The location is in Pacific Power territory which no longer does Net Metering so I guess it would be ok to use a non hybrid inverter. Maximum KW load on that service we measured 42kw. Baseline is 38kw. Jason, I've always understood it that all phases of all three phase configurations are 120 degrees out of phase. A=0, B=120, C=240. I'd have to revisit my transformer theory books, but I'm pretty certain that's the case On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 9:27 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > We do high-leg Delta commercial jobs occasionally, although I have never > done a battery backup, but it should not matter if they are only using the > two 120V legs to supply 120/240V split-phase service. The A and C legs of > 120V to neutral should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other and work > fine with any split-phase inverter. Just make sure you are not using the > wild leg that is 208V to neutral, if that is even delivered to the customer > from the utility. > > Most of the time, what we see is a 4-wire delivery to the customer with a > 3-phase panelboard, and every third breaker space is empty. They are only > using 120V and 240V circuits. We find this in light commercial settings in > older industrial parks. > > The other thing to consider is whether the utility will have an issue with > an unbalanced backfeed. FPL does not care around here as long as it's under > 50kWac. They allow netmetering on two legs of a 240V delta high-leg service. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 11:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, >> I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV >> and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the >> service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a >> 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and >> run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that >> arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that >> something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 >> degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 >> Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are >> micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight >> grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? >> Michael >> ? >> -- >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> >> Morningstar Electric Inc >> >> PO Box 1494 >> >> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >> >> 530-921-0560 >> >> CSLB 1116835 >> >> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric Inc PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 1116835 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Mar 25 13:10:29 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 13:10:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're right that all three phases of a 3-phase system are 120 degrees apart. But the two conductors at this service aren't "A and C phase" in that sense -- they're the two ends of the center-tapped winding in the Delta transformer bank, and that's a critical distinction. The neutral is tapped off the midpoint of that same winding. Two ends of the same transformer winding are always 180 degrees out of phase. Your own measurement confirms this: two 120V phasors that are 120 degrees apart produce ~208V L-L. Two at 180 degrees produce 240V. You measured 240V L-L, so you've got standard split-phase (functionally identical to a 120/240 split-phase residential service). The 120-degree phase angle setting on the Quattro is for when you have two actual phases from a 3-phase source (like a 208V L-L situation). No exotic inverter configuration needed. Any standard split-phase inverter should work with this service as-is. Unless I'm missing something! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 1:03 PM Michael Morningstar wrote: > David, The two phases are 120V L-N and 240 L-L. The "high leg" was not run > to the service. > > Kienan, I do recall seeing a 120 degree phase angle option when I > commissioned a split phase system using Quatros. The location is in Pacific > Power territory which no longer does Net Metering so I guess it would be ok > to use a non hybrid inverter. > > Maximum KW load on that service we measured 42kw. Baseline is 38kw. > > Jason, I've always understood it that all phases of all three phase > configurations are 120 degrees out of phase. A=0, B=120, C=240. I'd have to > revisit my transformer theory books, but I'm pretty certain that's the case > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 9:27 AM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> We do high-leg Delta commercial jobs occasionally, although I have never >> done a battery backup, but it should not matter if they are only using the >> two 120V legs to supply 120/240V split-phase service. The A and C legs of >> 120V to neutral should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other and work >> fine with any split-phase inverter. Just make sure you are not using the >> wild leg that is 208V to neutral, if that is even delivered to the customer >> from the utility. >> >> Most of the time, what we see is a 4-wire delivery to the customer with a >> 3-phase panelboard, and every third breaker space is empty. They are only >> using 120V and 240V circuits. We find this in light commercial settings in >> older industrial parks. >> >> The other thing to consider is whether the utility will have an issue >> with an unbalanced backfeed. FPL does not care around here as long as it's >> under 50kWac. They allow netmetering on two legs of a 240V delta high-leg >> service. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 11:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Wrenches, >>> I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV >>> and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the >>> service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a >>> 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and >>> run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that >>> arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that >>> something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 >>> degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 >>> Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are >>> micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight >>> grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? >>> Michael >>> ? >>> -- >>> >>> Michael Morningstar >>> >>> >>> Morningstar Electric Inc >>> >>> PO Box 1494 >>> >>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >>> >>> 530-921-0560 >>> >>> CSLB 1116835 >>> >>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Mar 25 13:35:26 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 10:35:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason is spot-on with his observation. I completely agree. Good work! William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 10:11 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You're right that all three phases of a 3-phase system are 120 degrees > apart. But the two conductors at this service aren't "A and C phase" in > that sense -- they're the two ends of the center-tapped winding in the > Delta transformer bank, and that's a critical distinction. The neutral is > tapped off the midpoint of that same winding. Two ends of the same > transformer winding are always 180 degrees out of phase. > > Your own measurement confirms this: two 120V phasors that are 120 degrees > apart produce ~208V L-L. Two at 180 degrees produce 240V. You measured 240V > L-L, so you've got standard split-phase (functionally identical to a 120/240 > split-phase residential service). > > The 120-degree phase angle setting on the Quattro is for when you have two > actual phases from a 3-phase source (like a 208V L-L situation). > > No exotic inverter configuration needed. Any standard split-phase inverter > should work with this service as-is. > > Unless I'm missing something! > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 1:03 PM Michael Morningstar < > mjmorningstar at gmail.com> wrote: > >> David, The two phases are 120V L-N and 240 L-L. The "high leg" was not >> run to the service. >> >> Kienan, I do recall seeing a 120 degree phase angle option when I >> commissioned a split phase system using Quatros. The location is in Pacific >> Power territory which no longer does Net Metering so I guess it would be ok >> to use a non hybrid inverter. >> >> Maximum KW load on that service we measured 42kw. Baseline is 38kw. >> >> Jason, I've always understood it that all phases of all three phase >> configurations are 120 degrees out of phase. A=0, B=120, C=240. I'd have to >> revisit my transformer theory books, but I'm pretty certain that's the case >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 9:27 AM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> We do high-leg Delta commercial jobs occasionally, although I have never >>> done a battery backup, but it should not matter if they are only using the >>> two 120V legs to supply 120/240V split-phase service. The A and C legs of >>> 120V to neutral should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other and work >>> fine with any split-phase inverter. Just make sure you are not using the >>> wild leg that is 208V to neutral, if that is even delivered to the customer >>> from the utility. >>> >>> Most of the time, what we see is a 4-wire delivery to the customer with >>> a 3-phase panelboard, and every third breaker space is empty. They are only >>> using 120V and 240V circuits. We find this in light commercial settings in >>> older industrial parks. >>> >>> The other thing to consider is whether the utility will have an issue >>> with an unbalanced backfeed. FPL does not care around here as long as it's >>> under 50kWac. They allow netmetering on two legs of a 240V delta high-leg >>> service. >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 11:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Wrenches, >>>> I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV >>>> and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the >>>> service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a >>>> 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and >>>> run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that >>>> arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that >>>> something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 >>>> degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 >>>> Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are >>>> micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight >>>> grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? >>>> Michael >>>> ? >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Michael Morningstar >>>> >>>> >>>> Morningstar Electric Inc >>>> >>>> PO Box 1494 >>>> >>>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >>>> >>>> 530-921-0560 >>>> >>>> CSLB 1116835 >>>> >>>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> >> Morningstar Electric Inc >> >> PO Box 1494 >> >> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >> >> 530-921-0560 >> >> CSLB 1116835 >> >> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Mar 25 13:42:39 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 10:42:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] VFX AC back-feed error Message-ID: Friends: I am getting this error message even though the wiring is correct. I’ve seen this before but I am gradually losing my memory of Outback quirks as I move to other product lines. Is this resolved by resetting the inverter to defaults? Thanks in advance. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kienan at maxfield.solar Wed Mar 25 13:53:32 2026 From: kienan at maxfield.solar (Kienan Maxfield) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 11:53:32 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason and William are totally correct. The question of phase angle is complicated because the phase angle is in reference to something… if the ground is the reference, then on a 120/240 Delta, the two legs that are 120 to ground are actually 180° apart from each other in reference to ground, But we don’t normally talk about it that way because we normally visualize the voltage in reference to the average voltage between the phases… and in a Y system, happens to be the same as ground… So even with a Victron System, you would still end up using a 180° phase angle since you don’t have the high leg. So yeah, any normal split phase equipment should be perfectly happy. Thanks, Kienan Maxfield www.distribution.solar On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 11:37 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jason is spot-on with his observation. I completely agree. Good work! > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 10:11 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> You're right that all three phases of a 3-phase system are 120 degrees >> apart. But the two conductors at this service aren't "A and C phase" in >> that sense -- they're the two ends of the center-tapped winding in the >> Delta transformer bank, and that's a critical distinction. The neutral is >> tapped off the midpoint of that same winding. Two ends of the same >> transformer winding are always 180 degrees out of phase. >> >> Your own measurement confirms this: two 120V phasors that are 120 degrees >> apart produce ~208V L-L. Two at 180 degrees produce 240V. You measured 240V >> L-L, so you've got standard split-phase (functionally identical to a 120/240 >> split-phase residential service). >> >> The 120-degree phase angle setting on the Quattro is for when you have >> two actual phases from a 3-phase source (like a 208V L-L situation). >> >> No exotic inverter configuration needed. Any standard split-phase >> inverter should work with this service as-is. >> >> Unless I'm missing something! >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 1:03 PM Michael Morningstar < >> mjmorningstar at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> David, The two phases are 120V L-N and 240 L-L. The "high leg" was not >>> run to the service. >>> >>> Kienan, I do recall seeing a 120 degree phase angle option when I >>> commissioned a split phase system using Quatros. The location is in Pacific >>> Power territory which no longer does Net Metering so I guess it would be ok >>> to use a non hybrid inverter. >>> >>> Maximum KW load on that service we measured 42kw. Baseline is 38kw. >>> >>> Jason, I've always understood it that all phases of all three phase >>> configurations are 120 degrees out of phase. A=0, B=120, C=240. I'd have to >>> revisit my transformer theory books, but I'm pretty certain that's the case >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 9:27 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> We do high-leg Delta commercial jobs occasionally, although I have >>>> never done a battery backup, but it should not matter if they are only >>>> using the two 120V legs to supply 120/240V split-phase service. The A and C >>>> legs of 120V to neutral should be 180 degrees out of phase with each other >>>> and work fine with any split-phase inverter. Just make sure you are not >>>> using the wild leg that is 208V to neutral, if that is even delivered to >>>> the customer from the utility. >>>> >>>> Most of the time, what we see is a 4-wire delivery to the customer with >>>> a 3-phase panelboard, and every third breaker space is empty. They are only >>>> using 120V and 240V circuits. We find this in light commercial settings in >>>> older industrial parks. >>>> >>>> The other thing to consider is whether the utility will have an issue >>>> with an unbalanced backfeed. FPL does not care around here as long as it's >>>> under 50kWac. They allow netmetering on two legs of a 240V delta high-leg >>>> service. >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 11:54 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Wrenches, >>>>> I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with >>>>> PV and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the >>>>> service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a >>>>> 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and >>>>> run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that >>>>> arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that >>>>> something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 >>>>> degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 >>>>> Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are >>>>> micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight >>>>> grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? >>>>> Michael >>>>> ? >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Michael Morningstar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Morningstar Electric Inc >>>>> >>>>> PO Box 1494 >>>>> >>>>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >>>>> >>>>> 530-921-0560 >>>>> >>>>> CSLB 1116835 >>>>> >>>>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Michael Morningstar >>> >>> >>> Morningstar Electric Inc >>> >>> PO Box 1494 >>> >>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >>> >>> 530-921-0560 >>> >>> CSLB 1116835 >>> >>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Mar 25 14:02:35 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 12:02:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] VFX AC back-feed error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BEC2C0A-1C21-4B71-897B-E0CA46853559@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Sue at midnitesolar.com Wed Mar 25 14:14:28 2026 From: Sue at midnitesolar.com (Sue Stankevitz) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 18:14:28 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Rosie7048RE will do 120/208 with just a setting adjustment. Sue Stankevitz MidNite Solar, Inc. (360) 403-7207 (XT122) [cid:image001.gif at 01DCBC61.B1521B30] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2026 11:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Michael Morningstar Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta Wrenches, I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? Michael ? -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric Inc PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 1116835 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4417 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From ray at solarray.com Wed Mar 25 14:44:19 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 12:44:19 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] VFX AC back-feed error In-Reply-To: <3BEC2C0A-1C21-4B71-897B-E0CA46853559@gmail.com> References: <3BEC2C0A-1C21-4B71-897B-E0CA46853559@gmail.com> Message-ID: Those relays get cooked when the pass through current gets too much.  I had a situation where a Tesla charger got installed on the backup loads panel, putting serious amps through the Outback relays.  For whatever reason the breakers didn't trip.  Definitely visible when the relay cooks as Jay mentioned.  In my case, the contact material was blown all over the inside of the clear case, and the plastic was stained dark with the smoke. The other possibility with VFXRs is it needs a firmware update. I had a situation where a VFXR was going offline in the middle of the day, and taking half the backup loads panel with it.  Firmware finally fixed it, but I too was accused of mis wiring.  I LOVE when Manus blame the installer, and it turns out to be some BS on their end.  That was the one and only VFXR installation I ever did. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 3/25/2026 12:02 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > It could be because of a welded relay. > If it’s happening when there is no ac input that is something I’ve > seen before.  You’ll need a new AC board. > > I’m pretty sure the relays are clear cases and can be obvious to see > the damage. > > Jay > >> On Mar 25, 2026, at 11:45 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> Friends: >> >> I am getting this error message even though the wiring is correct. >> I’ve seen this before but I am gradually losing my memory of Outback >> quirks as I move to other product lines. >> >> Is this resolved by resetting the inverter to defaults? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Wed Mar 25 16:01:00 2026 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 20:01:00 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would suggest that you confirm the service configuration first. You could have an open Delta, or less likely a high leg delta. Typically ahigh leg Delta will have four current carrying conductors supplying the MDP. [The Wild Leg] An open Delta also has a 180 degree relation ship, but is less efficient and you have to be cognizant about creating voltage imbalances. [https://i.sstatic.net/x5RgQ.jpg] In either case you have multiple options, but I recommend engaging a PE to help you do it correctly. There is more involved than simply getting the voltages correct. Pieter Huebner Project Manager Off Grid Enterprises ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Sue Stankevitz via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2026 1:14 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Sue Stankevitz Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta The Rosie7048RE will do 120/208 with just a setting adjustment. Sue Stankevitz MidNite Solar, Inc. (360) 403-7207 (XT122) [cid:image001.gif at 01DCBC61.B1521B30] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2026 11:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Michael Morningstar Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 Delta Wrenches, I have a customer that has asked me to provide their restaurant with PV and battery back up. Easy-peasy or so I thought. It turns out that the service that supplies the restaurant is being fed by two phases from a 120/240V transformer. The service entrance conductors are direct burial and run under a large paved parking lot, so there's no changing that arrangement. I'm at a loss as what I can do here. I don't believe that something like a Sol-Ark 18k is going to play nice with two legs 120 degrees out of phase? The 30K definitely needs all three phases so a 240 Delta/208 WYE isn't going to help? I don't even think there are micro-inverters or string inverters available to give them just straight grid-tied and no BB. Are there any solutions that I'm unaware of? Michael ? -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric Inc PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 1116835 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4417 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From lauraconchelos at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 11:54:27 2026 From: lauraconchelos at gmail.com (Laura Conchelos) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2026 09:54:27 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Skystream Wind Generator Message-ID: Hi all, I have a new customer with an old Skystream 3.7 wind turbine. The turbine is on a pallet to be sent off for some maintenane, but the former homeowner never got to it. The tower looks good and was probably a legit tower sold with the turbine, though I'm not positive. Just wondering what the current thought is about Skystream and if folks think it's worth this guy trying to have the turbine fixed and reinstalled? I looked at some old posts from 2012 but hope to get some more current advice. Laura -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 12:20:22 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2026 09:20:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Reducing your utility bill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches, > Got this from a city inspector, thought it needed to be seen by the group, > yes full view of the street. > Fun > > > times > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roy at four-winds-energy.com Thu Mar 26 12:53:54 2026 From: roy at four-winds-energy.com (Roy Butler) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2026 12:53:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Skystream Wind Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1b2a677f-024c-43a9-a162-7c3534a49511@four-winds-energy.com> Hi Laura, That turbine was always questionable at best. The best summary I've heard is that Skystream owners that had no data collection loved their turbine and those that did monitor it hated it. I sincerely doubt that it would ever pay back the cost of repairing it. Especially if that's the 10 meter tower the company loved to sell for it. No where near high enough to harvest good quality wind. Sorry to be the dream killer! Roy Butler Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t. “The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.” He who asks a question is a fool for a minute. He who does not ask is a fool for life. “Progress isn’t made by early risers. It’s made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” -Robert Heinlein Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 3/26/2026 11:54 AM, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi all, > I have a new customer with an old Skystream 3.7 wind turbine. The > turbine is on a pallet to be sent off for some maintenane, but the > former homeowner never got to it. The tower looks good and was > probably a legit tower sold with the turbine, though I'm not positive. > > Just wondering what the current thought is about Skystream and if > folks think it's worth this guy trying to have the turbine fixed and > reinstalled? I looked at some old posts from 2012 but hope to get some > more current advice. > > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpegg at energyalternatives.ca Thu Mar 26 18:10:24 2026 From: kpegg at energyalternatives.ca (Kevin Pegg) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2026 22:10:24 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Skystream Wind Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This unit was over-hyped and under performing when it was current, so is it worth while to repair? We still have a demo skystream sitting around somewhere if you need parts. Blades, nacelle but no guts alternator or electronics. Kevin From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches Sent: March-26-26 8:54 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Laura Conchelos Subject: [RE-wrenches] Skystream Wind Generator Hi all, I have a new customer with an old Skystream 3.7 wind turbine. The turbine is on a pallet to be sent off for some maintenane, but the former homeowner never got to it. The tower looks good and was probably a legit tower sold with the turbine, though I'm not positive. Just wondering what the current thought is about Skystream and if folks think it's worth this guy trying to have the turbine fixed and reinstalled? I looked at some old posts from 2012 but hope to get some more current advice. Laura -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Thu Mar 26 21:27:12 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2026 21:27:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Skystream Wind Generator In-Reply-To: <1b2a677f-024c-43a9-a162-7c3534a49511@four-winds-energy.com> References: <1b2a677f-024c-43a9-a162-7c3534a49511@four-winds-energy.com> Message-ID: Hi Laura Roy is correct. Altho, there is a company that is now selling the Skystream again and is supporting older machines with parts. It is still a bad investment. The new "SkyStream" company has a ton of hype and that should always give you pause. Glass is Cheap! On Thu, Mar 26, 2026 at 12:55 PM Roy Butler via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Laura, > > That turbine was always questionable at best. > > The best summary I've heard is that Skystream owners that had no data > collection loved their turbine > and those that did monitor it hated it. > > I sincerely doubt that it would ever pay back the cost of repairing it. > Especially if that's the 10 meter > tower the company loved to sell for it. No where near high enough to > harvest good quality wind. > > Sorry to be the dream killer! > > Roy Butler > Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC > 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 > 607-324-9747 > > Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t. > > “The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.” > > He who asks a question is a fool for a minute. He who does not ask is a fool for life. > > “Progress isn’t made by early risers. It’s made by lazy men trying to find easier ways > to do something.” -Robert Heinlein > > Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, > a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > On 3/26/2026 11:54 AM, Laura Conchelos via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > I have a new customer with an old Skystream 3.7 wind turbine. The turbine > is on a pallet to be sent off for some maintenane, but the former homeowner > never got to it. The tower looks good and was probably a legit tower sold > with the turbine, though I'm not positive. > > Just wondering what the current thought is about Skystream and if > folks think it's worth this guy trying to have the turbine fixed and > reinstalled? I looked at some old posts from 2012 but hope to get some more > current advice. > > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Mon Mar 30 14:02:34 2026 From: travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com (Travis Knipple) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2026 14:02:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schletter FS Ground Mount Pieces Message-ID: Hi wrenches, We're working to repower a couple systems with Schletter FS racking. Anyone have a source to point to for more pieces, or surplus pieces from these systems? We're having difficulty sourcing parts. -Travis -- Travis Knipple Senior Engineer Hudson Solar Solutions LLC Rhinebeck, NY 12572 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Direct Line: 814-241-4211 PVIP# PV-111821-013612 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Mon Mar 30 15:39:37 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2026 15:39:37 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schletter FS Ground Mount Pieces In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01dcc07c$f338dce0$d9aa96a0$@mindspring.com> Travis Just starting a small one of these. The Power Store in north Carolina was able to supply universal mids and ends. peter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Travis Knipple via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, March 30, 2026 2:03 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Travis Knipple Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schletter FS Ground Mount Pieces Hi wrenches, We're working to repower a couple systems with Schletter FS racking. Anyone have a source to point to for more pieces, or surplus pieces from these systems? We're having difficulty sourcing parts. -Travis -- Travis Knipple Senior Engineer Hudson Solar Solutions LLC Rhinebeck, NY 12572 518-539-8040 x408 | travis at hudsonsolarsolutions.com Direct Line: 814-241-4211 PVIP# PV-111821-013612 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD0000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Mon Mar 30 18:26:49 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2026 18:26:49 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shout out to Canadian Solar Message-ID: <000201dcc094$4e0d75b0$ea286110$@mindspring.com> Hello my fellow wrenchers Wanted to do a shout out to Canadian solar. Have a customer who has a 14 year old ground mount with Canadian solar panels. The system started showing Arc faults and shutting off. Ther panels white backing had started to crack on all 20 panels and some panels started to develop small burn marks on the back side. Canadian solar stepped up and honored the warranty and shipped replacement panels to my customer last week. I would encourage all of you that have older systems with Canadian solar panels to please check the back side and make sure the white backing is not cracking. If so please reach out to them before their warranty expires. Again, Kudos to Canadian Solar, in todays market it is so very refreshing to have a manufacturer step up and make customer whole. Thx Peter Giroux American Solar & Alternative Energy Solutions inc Norcross Ga -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Mar 31 19:01:01 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2026 17:01:01 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GFCI tripping on grid outage Message-ID: Hi all. I was asked recently about why GFCI outlets/breakers sometimes trip on grid outage. I had the same outage and this was the first time that some GFCI breakers tripped and some but not all GFCI outlets as well. I don’t really have a good idea as to why that is. Any thoughts? Thx From william at millersolar.com Tue Mar 31 19:08:11 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2026 16:08:11 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GFCI tripping on grid outage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: THD. Noisy waveform. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Tue, Mar 31, 2026 at 4:04 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all. > > I was asked recently about why GFCI outlets/breakers sometimes trip on > grid outage. I had the same outage and this was the first time that some > GFCI breakers tripped and some but not all GFCI outlets as well. > > I don’t really have a good idea as to why that is. > > Any thoughts? > > Thx > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 1 12:59:59 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 12:59:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Settings Guide Message-ID: Hi all, I am seeking feedback for a settings guide I put together, largely to remind myself what the settings mean since the manual is a bit short on details and clarity. But I also want to offer this up as a resource for anyone who is looking for more detailed information on how to program the Midnite AIO. Here is the guide I created: https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/midnite-aio-settings-guide Please contact me off-list with suggestions or corrections for any of the given settings. I will incorporate feedback and continue to improve the guide. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Apr 1 14:04:28 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 11:04:28 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont Message-ID: <497ea132c96b118ac2c00d48de7b2ff4@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and built by that date. Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast blocks. The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be considering? Thanks in advance for any input. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 14:11:21 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 12:11:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont In-Reply-To: <497ea132c96b118ac2c00d48de7b2ff4@mail.gmail.com> References: <497ea132c96b118ac2c00d48de7b2ff4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 14:29:38 2026 From: lucchesesolar at gmail.com (Nick Lucchese) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 11:29:38 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont In-Reply-To: References: <497ea132c96b118ac2c00d48de7b2ff4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This solution is kind of hokey but I have a friend in a very similar situation so I had been considering. The 60 cell variant is still available if that is what you originally designed with. I've never used them but put my hands on them at Intersolar this year and they appear to be a decent solution. https://www.powerfieldenergy.com/ Good luck, Nick On Wed, Apr 1, 2026 at 11:14 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Have you looked at the unirac GFT > They have a stamped ballasted design which can be above ground or built > into the ground. I don’t know if it’s got the updated stamp. > > Jay > > > > On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:07 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Friends: > > > > I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a > grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in > the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and > built by that date. > > > > Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system > that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of > posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground > has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils > study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. > > > > The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). > Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates > approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the > U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an > engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast > blocks. > > > > The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design > and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac > offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this > report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on > 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. > The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be > certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states > compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not > provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California > Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. > > > > I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you > have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of > you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be > considering? > > > > Thanks in advance for any input. > > > > William > > > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Wed Apr 1 14:32:30 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 11:32:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont In-Reply-To: References: <497ea132c96b118ac2c00d48de7b2ff4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You could probably get a fast, and very affordable stamp from ENGINEERINC. Contact Headquarters 303 N Glenoaks Blvd, Suite 200, Burbank, CA 91502 Tel +1 724-580-1398 <+1%20724-580-1398> Mail new at engineerinc.io On Wed, Apr 1, 2026 at 11:16 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Have you looked at the unirac GFT > They have a stamped ballasted design which can be above ground or built > into the ground. I don’t know if it’s got the updated stamp. > > Jay > > > > On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:07 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Friends: > > > > I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a > grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in > the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and > built by that date. > > > > Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system > that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of > posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground > has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils > study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. > > > > The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). > Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates > approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the > U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an > engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast > blocks. > > > > The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design > and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac > offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this > report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on > 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. > The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be > certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states > compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not > provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California > Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. > > > > I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you > have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of > you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be > considering? > > > > Thanks in advance for any input. > > > > William > > > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Wed Apr 1 14:37:14 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2026 14:37:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont In-Reply-To: <497ea132c96b118ac2c00d48de7b2ff4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <495ab7f0-7c06-4dea-8190-fb2fd88e07d7@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Apr 1 14:50:29 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 11:50:29 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mount Message-ID: Jay: I see that GFT is approved for “ballasted” installations. I ran their U-Builder tool, selecting ballast blocks as the option. In the end it showed me a picture of the ballast blocks as a poured-in-place concrete footing. See photo below. This is not what ballasted is supposed to mean in solar racking… William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, April 1, 2026 11:11 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont Have you looked at the unirac GFT They have a stamped ballasted design which can be above ground or built into the ground. I don’t know if it’s got the updated stamp. Jay On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:07 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:  Friends: I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and built by that date. Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast blocks. The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be considering? Thanks in advance for any input. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 25999 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 16:09:19 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 14:09:19 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mount In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is the unirac installation manual Towards the bottom you’ll see the ballast info design. Can be totally above ground. https://unirac.com/document/gft-construction-drawings-gen-2-top-chord-404036/view/ view PDF Document · 3.7 MB > On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:50 PM, William Miller wrote: > > Jay: > > I see that GFT is approved for “ballasted” installations. I ran their U-Builder tool, selecting ballast blocks as the option. In the end it showed me a picture of the ballast blocks as a poured-in-place concrete footing. See photo below. > > This is not what ballasted is supposed to mean in solar racking… > > William > > William Miller > Miller Solar > www.millersolar.com > CA License C-10 77398 > > From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com ] > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2026 11:11 AM > To: william at millersolar.com ; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont > > Have you looked at the unirac GFT > They have a stamped ballasted design which can be above ground or built into the ground. I don’t know if it’s got the updated stamp. > > Jay > > > > > On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:07 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: > >>  >> Friends: >> >> I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and built by that date. >> >> Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. >> >> The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast blocks. >> >> The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. >> >> I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be considering? >> >> Thanks in advance for any input. >> >> William >> >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar >> www.millersolar.com >> CA License C-10 77398 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: preview.png Type: image/png Size: 1626 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Apr 1 16:12:54 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 13:12:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mount In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jay: Thank you very much. I could not find this document on the web site. This is valuable information. William Miller William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, April 1, 2026 1:09 PM *To:* William Miller *Cc:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mount Here is the unirac installation manual Towards the bottom you’ll see the ballast info design. Can be totally above ground. [image: preview.png] view PDF Document · 3.7 MB On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:50 PM, William Miller wrote: Jay: I see that GFT is approved for “ballasted” installations. I ran their U-Builder tool, selecting ballast blocks as the option. In the end it showed me a picture of the ballast blocks as a poured-in-place concrete footing. See photo below. This is not what ballasted is supposed to mean in solar racking… William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, April 1, 2026 11:11 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont Have you looked at the unirac GFT They have a stamped ballasted design which can be above ground or built into the ground. I don’t know if it’s got the updated stamp. Jay On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:07 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:  Friends: I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and built by that date. Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast blocks. The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be considering? Thanks in advance for any input. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 23487 bytes Desc: not available URL: From atersol at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 00:43:38 2026 From: atersol at gmail.com (Antony Tersol) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2026 21:43:38 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mount Message-ID: We're finishing such a system for similar reasons. We used Sollega - contact Elie Rothschild . They can provide stamped drawings. Each basket requires a 4x8x16 block (32 lbs). Their baskets are also available from IronRidge, which has online design software, but that doesn't provide stamps. Pictures from today. Antony Tersol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sollega-nw.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 877302 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sollega-sw.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 863245 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coresolar at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 02:25:39 2026 From: coresolar at gmail.com (Corey Shalanski) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2026 01:25:39 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, RE. "Do any of you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be considering?" I am aware of the following product options that kinda fit what you are describing: - Aerocompact CompactGROUND G - APA Solar Geoballast - FLEXRACK Series B - Solar Mounts Ballasted Ground Mount - Terrasmart Ballasted Ground Mount -- Corey Shalanski Jah Light Solar Portland, Jamaica On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:07 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Friends: > > > > I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a > grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in > the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and > built by that date. > > > > Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system > that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of > posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground > has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils > study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. > > > > The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). > Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates > approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the > U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an > engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast > blocks. > > > > The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design > and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac > offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this > report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on > 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. > The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be > certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states > compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not > provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California > Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. > > > > I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you > have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of > you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be > considering? > > > > Thanks in advance for any input. > > > > William > > > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Thu Apr 2 07:51:53 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2026 07:51:53 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007401dcc297$1acf5d80$506e1880$@mindspring.com> William You might want to look at PowerFields power racking. We have used it several times and been very happy with it. Simple and rugged with a 30 degree tilt. Peter Giroux American Solar From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Corey Shalanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2026 2:26 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Corey Shalanski Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mouont William, RE. "Do any of you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be considering?" I am aware of the following product options that kinda fit what you are describing: * Aerocompact CompactGROUND G * APA Solar Geoballast * FLEXRACK Series B * Solar Mounts Ballasted Ground Mount * Terrasmart Ballasted Ground Mount -- Corey Shalanski Jah Light Solar Portland, Jamaica On Apr 1, 2026, at 12:07 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: Friends: I have a client that is trying to meet a 4/14/26 deadline to construct a grid-tied system under the NEM2 rate structure. She contacted me late in the process to see if I could design a system that could be permitted and built by that date. Her roof is inadequate so I proposed a ground-mount. Any racking system that penetrates the ground would need a soils study to avoid a forest of posts with concrete. Without a soils study the assumption is the ground has the consistency of beach sand. We did not have the time for a soils study. Therefore I suggested a ballasted ground mount. The AHJ favors “pre-engineered, ready-to-use” designs (their quote). Unirac provides this service for their RM10EVO product and also stipulates approval for ground mounting. We entered the information into the U-Builder web portal, including a California address, and received an engineering report certifying a design with the required parts and ballast blocks. The AHJ failed to recognize this as a pre-engineered, ready-to-use design and called for a wet-stamped engineering report. For a mere $350 Unirac offered to provide this, a fair price. In the process of requesting this report we were informed that the California code cycle had updated on 1/1/2026 and new standards are in place. The old standard is ASCE7-16. The new one is ASCE 7-22. Unirac told me that they have yet to be certified for 7-22 for the RM10EVO. Oddly the U-builder report states compliance with 7-22 but apparently this is an error. Unirac will not provide a wet-stamp certifying compliance with 7-22 and the 2025 California Residential Code and/or the 2025 California Building Code. I write this for two reasons: 1. This is a big heads up if any of you have projects in the pipeline that depend on these codes, and 2. Do any of you know of any ground-approved, ballasted racking systems I should be considering? Thanks in advance for any input. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Thu Apr 2 13:03:58 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2026 10:03:58 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ballasted ground mount In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Personally, I've never had much luck with pre-engineered stamped designs from the manufacturers. Aside from pole mounts, they all tend to stop at way too low of tilt for my situations (I generally try for 45 to 55 degree tilt, off grid and/or snow shedding). So, I have tended to just design the groundmount to my desires that's a modification of the normal manufacturer ones with my own addditions and get a wet stamp for each project. Usually comes in under $400 with the engineer I've been using for years. While most of these end up with a sea of little concrete piers, he's also done ones attached to a slab poured on top of the ground, to a layer of parking lot bumpers, bolted to large rocks ("large" being 10' to entire mountain size), and bolted to concrete beams poured on top of the ground. Also, he is very amenable to using driven ground anchors to add additional uplift resistance (we are usually dealing with 170mph design wind load). He doesn't require a soil study to use those (probably just bases it off the minimum pullout in sandy soil). Getting anything done through permitting in a 2 week timeframe seems difficult though... Zeke -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chris at OasisMontana.com Thu Apr 2 15:00:27 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2026 13:00:27 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Savvy Outback person needed east of OK City In-Reply-To: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> References: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> Message-ID: <008701dcc2d2$f8d2af70$ea780e50$@OasisMontana.com> Hey folks: Is there anyone out there who can help an elderly fella located in Henryetta, OK? He's got an Outback system (VFX3524, etc.) that needs some hands-on tweaking. Please feel free to contact me off list. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 3 05:26:42 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 05:26:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Settings Guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Quick update: I improved the tool with selectors for work mode and open vs. closed loop. Selecting these changes the information presented in the table. The drop-down now works for Smart Loads as well. Jason On Wed, Apr 1, 2026 at 12:59 PM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > I am seeking feedback for a settings guide I put together, largely to > remind myself what the settings mean since the manual is a bit short on > details and clarity. But I also want to offer this up as a resource for > anyone who is looking for more detailed information on how to program the > Midnite AIO. Here is the guide I created: > > https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/midnite-aio-settings-guide > > Please contact me off-list with suggestions or corrections for any of the > given settings. I will incorporate feedback and continue to improve the > guide. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 09:37:01 2026 From: gowdyelectriccambria at gmail.com (Jim Gowdy) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 06:37:01 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solid State Marine Batteries Message-ID: Does anyone have any experience using Solid State Marine lithium batteries, in particular the model 48V210Ah version? A customer wants to use 9 of this style battery for a residential off-grid system that will pair up with a solark 15K inverter and I've never used these batteries before. Thanks. -- Jim with Gowdy Electric Cambria, Ca 93428 business 805 927 2630 cell 805 975 5279 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri Apr 3 10:45:02 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2026 10:45:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown Message-ID: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> Hello All, A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code requirements nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get rapid shutdown, it could affect his ability to get an insurance claim paid, if ever needed. The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump and tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in the building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically required. Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? Thank you, Drake -- _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Apr 3 11:04:20 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 08:04:20 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown In-Reply-To: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> References: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: If he wants to be more assured of filing an insurance claim he should install RSS. Seriously, the equipment has a bad safety record. I would recommend a safety inspection and a modern charge controller with arc flash and ground fault detection over RSS. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 7:46 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello All, > > A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code requirements > nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get rapid shutdown, it > could affect his ability to get an insurance claim paid, if ever needed. > > The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump and > tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in the > building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically required. > > Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > > -- > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 13:00:42 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 10:00:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown In-Reply-To: References: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: If considering retrofitting rapid shutdown I would recommend APSmart. I have never had any failures or heard of anyone else who has. On Fri, Apr 3, 2026, 8:05 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > If he wants to be more assured of filing an insurance claim he should > install RSS. > > Seriously, the equipment has a bad safety record. I would recommend a > safety inspection and a modern charge controller with arc flash and ground > fault detection over RSS. > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 7:46 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code requirements >> nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get rapid shutdown, it >> could affect his ability to get an insurance claim paid, if ever needed. >> >> The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump and >> tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in the >> building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically required. >> >> Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> >> -- >> >> *Drake Chamberlin* >> >> *Athens Electric LLC* >> >> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* >> >> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri Apr 3 14:18:25 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 12:18:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown In-Reply-To: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> References: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: This report from Heliovolt came out recently, and I think all wrenches should be aware.  I think if your client reads this report, he will skip RS.  I would.  I think we need to go back to 2011/ 2014? and just have the combiner box close to the array, with an external disconnect handle. I'd only recommend a remote disconnect, if it's a steep roof or otherwise hard to access the disconnect at the array.  We've gotten way off in the weeds for supposed firefighter safety, but now we're causing real fires, and real safety issues for the homeowners themselves with module level disconnects.  RS is going to be the Zinsco of solar, or perhaps aluminum 12 AWG wiring?  There have been some horrible choices made by NEC and UL over the years, and RS is one of them. https://www.heliovolta.com/resources/rapid-shutdown-devices-unintended-consequences Once again, when was the last time the fire department actually needed RS, to then hack through the solar array itself to ventilate?  Every firefighter I've ever talked to, said they'd just cut through a different section of roof, and leave the array alone. Safety should be first: family safety.  Firefighters have tons of training, our children do not. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 4/3/2026 8:45 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hello All, > A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code > requirements nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get > rapid shutdown, it could affect his ability to get an insurance claim > paid, if ever needed. > The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump > and tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in > the building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically > required. > Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? > Thank you, > Drake > -- > > /Drake Chamberlin/ > > /Athens Electric LLC/ > > /Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/ > > /NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/ > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palumbo131m at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 15:36:18 2026 From: palumbo131m at gmail.com (David Palumbo) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 19:36:18 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LA Charging setting off CO alarm. Message-ID: I am preparing our 38-year-old home and property for sale as we are aging out of managing our off-grid lifestyle in the great north woods of Vermont. Our system uses Surrette/Rolls lead acids 12 KS33 2v cells in a 24v off-grid PV (8kW) and micro-hydro (.5kW) system. Occasionally our CO detector alarm would go off after a few hours of nice and hard absorption charge and we've lived with it ourselves with no problem because we know it is false alarm and can easily deal with it. I am not wanting an issue with this with the new homeowners though, so I am making improvements to both our battery box venting system and also up grading our CO and Smoke Alarm system also. Please feel free to chime in with your experienced advice here. Here's what I'm planning on doing: * Replacing our weak little 24v Zephyr Power Vent in-line fan and 2" pvc vent pipeline with a AC Infinity CLOUDLINE A4, 4” Inline Duct Fan 165 CFM EC Motor, 29 dBA, adjustable speed fan - Typically used for Ventilation Exhaust Fan for Heating Cooling Booster, Grow Tents, Hydroponics, etc. * Upgrading our house to current Vermont standards for fire and CO safety by using hardwired combo units with battery backup that communicate with each other. I'm trying to find a unit that has a CO detector that minimizes false CO alarms triggered by H2. I think this one might be what I'm looking for: * Kidde 30CUA10-V Smoke & CO Combo in their Detect Series. Thanks for all your help over the years, Dave Palumbo, Hyde Park, VT 802-371-8678 if texting works better for you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Apr 3 15:54:22 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 12:54:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown In-Reply-To: References: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <55322f9217de2e681baf0ffd01eeef4f@mail.gmail.com> Below is a message I received off-line a while ago re: AP Smart, along with photos. I thought I’d contact you off list. You have been asking about RSD units, I wanted to pass along my experience with the AP Smart RSD unit. I’ll let the pictures do most of the talking - see below. Bottom line, APSmart is a nice little easy piece of plastic junk to install and commission. However, when something goes wrong it can be a real pain to ID the fault. They have a little gadget that you have to wave over the conductors to listen for a pulse (not always easy on a roof! I went thru 2 inverters about 6 hrs on the phone with SMA (I got ALL sorts of weird errors, but only 1 arc fault), 2 weeks of back and forth with AP Systems/Smart. After I finally got the arc fault, in an act of desperation, I started tearing the array apart at significant expense and much frustration by my client (he totally lost faith in solar and had been wanting it for years) I finally found the problem. Luckily this one was on a new install on a metal roof and not on a system that had been through a few seasons with build up of leaf detritus under the array on an asphalt shingle roof. I’ve been at this for 17yrs now and have never had a piece of equipment fail this catastrophically - especially a piece of unnecessary safety equipment. Their tech support engineer, while well meaning, is extremely difficult to understand due to language barrier and completely failed to take any responsibility for this failure which could have resulted in a house fire and who knows what else…. My strong recommendation is to limit the use of any RSD unless pressed to do so by an AHJ. It’s my opinion that these units should be at least in metallic enclosures. I worked at Tigo back before RSD was a “thing” and do see the advantages, but I just think (like BB) that there are more downsides than up at this point in time given the available tech. I keep this unit in my van and show every AHJ then ask them to tell me what they want me to do in writing. I am not going to be on the hook the consequences of such a catastrophic failure. William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* Tyrone Houck [mailto:tyronehouck at gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, April 3, 2026 10:17 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown Thanks for sharing. I've asked this group multiple times for any anecdotes or pictures of APSmarts failing and never recieved any response. Tigo failures are mentioned often. Personally, I've installed upwards of 1000 APs with no issue(I don't make a habit of stress testing them by repeatedly hitting the switch during peak production though). All that said, I wouldn’t bother installing them in a situation that didn't warrant RSS. On Fri, Apr 3, 2026, 10:06 AM William Miller wrote: I have seen photos of one AP Smart RSD that had melted and burst into flames. The job they are required to do : open a high voltage, arc sustaining circuit under load is a difficult task to accomplish, especially in a small package in an extreme environment. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 10:00 AM Tyrone Houck wrote: If considering retrofitting rapid shutdown I would recommend APSmart. I have never had any failures or heard of anyone else who has. On Fri, Apr 3, 2026, 8:05 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: If he wants to be more assured of filing an insurance claim he should install RSS. Seriously, the equipment has a bad safety record. I would recommend a safety inspection and a modern charge controller with arc flash and ground fault detection over RSS. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 7:46 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Hello All, A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code requirements nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get rapid shutdown, it could affect his ability to get an insurance claim paid, if ever needed. The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump and tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in the building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically required. Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? Thank you, Drake -- *Drake Chamberlin* *Athens Electric LLC* *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8981.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 84153 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8985.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 79858 bytes Desc: not available URL: From matt at sesre.com Fri Apr 3 16:08:50 2026 From: matt at sesre.com (Matt Partymiller) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 20:08:50 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown In-Reply-To: <55322f9217de2e681baf0ffd01eeef4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> <55322f9217de2e681baf0ffd01eeef4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: For what its worth, I am aware of an APsmart rooftop fire in 2021 that was almost certainly the result of crosstalk. Multiple other failed APsmarts were found outside of the fire area, all exhibiting some degree of melted plastic and, in some instances, having melted nearby PVwire (I think the Brooks analysis suggested this as the likely failure method – arcing between adjacent strings due to melted wire from bundled homeruns under APsmart). It is very important that anyone using RSDs understand and eliminate crosstalk. I am amazed how little this issue is discussed and how few installers seem aware. Just Wednesday we inspected a newly installed rooftop with rampant crosstalk and APsmarts. I would generally avoid RSDs altogether if possible. Matt Matt Partymiller General Manager Solar Energy Solutions Kentucky | Indiana | Illinois | Ohio | Virginia 877-312-7456 (Main Office) matt at sesre.com www.sesre.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of William Miller via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 3, 2026 3:54 PM To: Tyrone Houck Cc: William Miller ; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown Caution: This email originated from outside SES. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Below is a message I received off-line a while ago re: AP Smart, along with photos. I thought I’d contact you off list. You have been asking about RSD units, I wanted to pass along my experience with the AP Smart RSD unit. I’ll let the pictures do most of the talking - see below. Bottom line, APSmart is a nice little easy piece of plastic junk to install and commission. However, when something goes wrong it can be a real pain to ID the fault. They have a little gadget that you have to wave over the conductors to listen for a pulse (not always easy on a roof! I went thru 2 inverters about 6 hrs on the phone with SMA (I got ALL sorts of weird errors, but only 1 arc fault), 2 weeks of back and forth with AP Systems/Smart. After I finally got the arc fault, in an act of desperation, I started tearing the array apart at significant expense and much frustration by my client (he totally lost faith in solar and had been wanting it for years) I finally found the problem. Luckily this one was on a new install on a metal roof and not on a system that had been through a few seasons with build up of leaf detritus under the array on an asphalt shingle roof. I’ve been at this for 17yrs now and have never had a piece of equipment fail this catastrophically - especially a piece of unnecessary safety equipment. Their tech support engineer, while well meaning, is extremely difficult to understand due to language barrier and completely failed to take any responsibility for this failure which could have resulted in a house fire and who knows what else…. My strong recommendation is to limit the use of any RSD unless pressed to do so by an AHJ. It’s my opinion that these units should be at least in metallic enclosures. I worked at Tigo back before RSD was a “thing” and do see the advantages, but I just think (like BB) that there are more downsides than up at this point in time given the available tech. I keep this unit in my van and show every AHJ then ask them to tell me what they want me to do in writing. I am not going to be on the hook the consequences of such a catastrophic failure. William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 From: Tyrone Houck [mailto:tyronehouck at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 3, 2026 10:17 AM To: william at millersolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown Thanks for sharing. I've asked this group multiple times for any anecdotes or pictures of APSmarts failing and never recieved any response. Tigo failures are mentioned often. Personally, I've installed upwards of 1000 APs with no issue(I don't make a habit of stress testing them by repeatedly hitting the switch during peak production though). All that said, I wouldn’t bother installing them in a situation that didn't warrant RSS. On Fri, Apr 3, 2026, 10:06 AM William Miller > wrote: I have seen photos of one AP Smart RSD that had melted and burst into flames. The job they are required to do : open a high voltage, arc sustaining circuit under load is a difficult task to accomplish, especially in a small package in an extreme environment. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 10:00 AM Tyrone Houck > wrote: If considering retrofitting rapid shutdown I would recommend APSmart. I have never had any failures or heard of anyone else who has. On Fri, Apr 3, 2026, 8:05 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: If he wants to be more assured of filing an insurance claim he should install RSS. Seriously, the equipment has a bad safety record. I would recommend a safety inspection and a modern charge controller with arc flash and ground fault detection over RSS. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 7:46 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hello All, A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code requirements nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get rapid shutdown, it could affect his ability to get an insurance claim paid, if ever needed. The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump and tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in the building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically required. Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? Thank you, Drake -- Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 18:56:49 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2026 16:56:49 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Chevy V2H Message-ID: <749C27C8-A22F-41ED-9126-EACEEAA956A6@gmail.com> Hi all Does anyone know anything about the new to me Chevy V2H inverter, and other equipment? Thanks Jay From offgridsolar at sti.net Mon Apr 6 13:20:28 2026 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2026 10:20:28 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown In-Reply-To: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> References: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <3d5e05b0de5ab8e0e524fcf8d58e94b6@sti.net> As long as he is honest with what insurance asks he should be fine. Done this many times although it is getting much harder to get insurance offgrid! Did insurance do an inspection? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2026-04-03 7:45 am, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hello All, > > A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code > requirements nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get > rapid shutdown, it could affect his ability to get an insurance claim > paid, if ever needed. > > The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump > and tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in > the building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically > required. > > Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > -- > > _Drake Chamberlin_ > > _Athens Electric LLC_ > > _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ > > _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] https://offgridsolar1.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 21:58:40 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2026 21:58:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Chevy V2H In-Reply-To: <749C27C8-A22F-41ED-9126-EACEEAA956A6@gmail.com> References: <749C27C8-A22F-41ED-9126-EACEEAA956A6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay, Let me attempt to give you a quick(ish) overview of this system. The “GM Energy Storage Bundle” is a V2H / ESS setup made up of a salad of white-labeled components and GM-native equipment. It can be configured as V2H only, or paired with 10–35 kWh of stationary storage for added redundancy. At the heart of the system is the Home Hub (MID). It has an integrated 10 circuit busbar rated at 164A (randomly), with a max subfeed of 125A. No smart load functionality. It can be set up as either a 100A-200A main lug only OR with a 100- 200A Eaton CSR main breaker. A little odd on paper since it’s 200A in but only 125A out. If you’re integrating AC-coupled solar, you’ll need to add a GM Acrel meter inside the Home Hub. There’s also an optional 100A non-backed-up loads panel, which can only be used for the EVSE circuit. The PowerShift charger is the bidirectional EVSE. It’s rated at max 80A continuous charge (100A circuit), and it can be derated down to around 16A without affecting backup performance. The AC circuit must originate from the non-backed-up section of the system. The PowerShift also includes a 50A DC connection that feeds the GM Energy Inverter. One thing to note is that when the charger is in discharge mode, the vehicle can’t recharge from either AC or DC-coupled solar. The Energy Inverter is a 9.6 kW multimode inverter with four MPPT inputs if you’re DC coupling. If there’s no PowerBank installed, you need a Dark Start Battery. That comes with a prefab whip and connects straight into the inverter to provide 12V control power so the system can start up during an outage. No direct generator integration. Select 3 phase configuration, but really a split phase offering. System Advantages: GM has made bidirectional capability standard across all new GMC, Chevy and Cadillac models, which is a big plus with compatibility hunting. Everything runs through the same GM app as the vehicles, so it’s a pretty clean user experience. The PowerShift setup also gives you some flexibility since it uses both AC and DC paths. That makes it easier to derate the charger or install it on a load management device to get that load calc to pass. System Disadvantages The product is still pretty new, and it shows. Commissioning can take a while, usually around two hours but sometimes much longer. I've heard horror stories of 6+ hrs when things go wrong. The 125A subfeed limit in the Home Hub can be a constraint depending on the job. No one wants to derate their brand new 200A MSP to 125A. Also, the PowerBank is only IP55 rated, and the install manual suggests avoiding moist locations, even indoors, which can be limiting, especially in jurisdictions where indoor ESS installs are highly regulated (thinking of San Jose and LA County). There have also been some reliability concerns with components like the Home Hub, inverter, and PowerShift. If something fails, it can essentially brick and need full replacement. Overall, it's the one of the few bidirectional systems on the market that is currently functional and confirmed compatible with multiple vehicles. If you are up for enduring the growing pains of a large automotive company testing out our market.... give it a try! A solid B- On Sat, Apr 4, 2026 at 6:57 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all > > Does anyone know anything about the new to me Chevy V2H inverter, and > other equipment? > Thanks > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 09:11:03 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 07:11:03 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Chevy V2H In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02B3B49A-9A28-4365-9AD4-04954A15B515@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 7 15:25:29 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 15:25:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise Message-ID: Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when remote-start capability is enabled. So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the generator from the app. Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and clueless tech support. Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 16:49:56 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 14:49:56 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I really don’t know why AGS has been so hard with all these new inverter companies. It is a massive weak point for true offgrid. I can hear the howls now, but most people want AGS. Regardless many of those features below are also useful for manual start applications. I mean Trace had all this back in 1995 and nothing has changed in terms of what we want generator back up to do. Is there a AIO available today that have anything close to the list below? 2 and 3 wire start 24 hr, 2 hr, 15 minute volt/start time load start/start quiet time run time exercise period/time voltage input window hz input window manual start/stop manual start/auto shut off warm up cool down pre crank max crank post crank > On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: > > The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time. > > I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when remote-start capability is enabled. > > So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the generator from the app. > > Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and clueless tech support. > > Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 7 17:42:28 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 17:42:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seriously. It shouldn't be this hard. The site I just got burned on is grid-tied, so generator exercise is even more important since it will likely almost never run otherwise. On a good note, Midnite released firmware for their AIO that allows you to put the Gen on the Grid port for off-grid and still use the AGS function, but it is limited. At least there is an exercise cycle and run time, but no amps start and limited voltage start options. EG4 does have manual start/auto off (what they call exercise), and cooldown, but otherwise it's limited to V or SOC start/stop. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 4:51 PM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I really don’t know why AGS has been so hard with all these new inverter > companies. It is a massive weak point for true offgrid. > I can hear the howls now, but most people want AGS. Regardless many of > those features below are also useful for manual start applications. > > I mean Trace had all this back in 1995 and nothing has changed in terms of > what we want generator back up to do. > > Is there a AIO available today that have anything close to the list below? > > 2 and 3 wire start > 24 hr, 2 hr, 15 minute volt/start time > load start/start > quiet time > run time > exercise period/time > voltage input window > hz input window > manual start/stop > manual start/auto shut off > warm up > cool down > pre crank > max crank > post crank > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading > documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: > > *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open > connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery > SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be > configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* > > I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator > exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many > generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when > remote-start capability is enabled. > > So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you can > set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the > generator from the app. > > Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and > clueless tech support. > > Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this > function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for > power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on > a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Tue Apr 7 17:59:23 2026 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 17:59:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, How about the RD-1 Relay Driver from Morning star? Christopher On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 5:44 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Seriously. It shouldn't be this hard. The site I just got burned on is > grid-tied, so generator exercise is even more important since it will > likely almost never run otherwise. > > On a good note, Midnite released firmware for their AIO that allows you to > put the Gen on the Grid port for off-grid and still use the AGS function, > but it is limited. At least there is an exercise cycle and run time, but no > amps start and limited voltage start options. > > EG4 does have manual start/auto off (what they call exercise), and > cooldown, but otherwise it's limited to V or SOC start/stop. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 4:51 PM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I really don’t know why AGS has been so hard with all these new inverter >> companies. It is a massive weak point for true offgrid. >> I can hear the howls now, but most people want AGS. Regardless many of >> those features below are also useful for manual start applications. >> >> I mean Trace had all this back in 1995 and nothing has changed in terms >> of what we want generator back up to do. >> >> Is there a AIO available today that have anything close to the list below? >> >> 2 and 3 wire start >> 24 hr, 2 hr, 15 minute volt/start time >> load start/start >> quiet time >> run time >> exercise period/time >> voltage input window >> hz input window >> manual start/stop >> manual start/auto shut off >> warm up >> cool down >> pre crank >> max crank >> post crank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading >> documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: >> >> *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open >> connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery >> SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be >> configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* >> >> I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator >> exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many >> generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when >> remote-start capability is enabled. >> >> So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you >> can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the >> generator from the app. >> >> Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and >> clueless tech support. >> >> Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this >> function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for >> power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on >> a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 18:09:49 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 16:09:49 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <973EB302-52E0-4D0A-A8D2-F3DB5BE4C75B@gmail.com> what generator do you have? jay > On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: > > The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time. > > I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when remote-start capability is enabled. > > So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the generator from the app. > > Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and clueless tech support. > > Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 7 18:36:33 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 18:36:33 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: <973EB302-52E0-4D0A-A8D2-F3DB5BE4C75B@gmail.com> References: <973EB302-52E0-4D0A-A8D2-F3DB5BE4C75B@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's a Generac NextGen. None of the Generacs (Evo, Evo2, NextGen) allow exercise with remote start enabled. I didn't install it - just got stuck with it, and after promising I could use EG4 to exercise, I got pie in my face. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Apr 7, 2026, 6:14 PM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > what generator do you have? > > jay > > On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading > documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: > > *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open > connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery > SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be > configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* > > I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator > exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many > generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when > remote-start capability is enabled. > > So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you can > set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the > generator from the app. > > Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and > clueless tech support. > > Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this > function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for > power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on > a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 19:14:05 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2026 19:14:05 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: <973EB302-52E0-4D0A-A8D2-F3DB5BE4C75B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jason, I think the DTS-1 controller might be what you are after. You could power it off the generator’s 12Vdc battery and DIN mount in the enclosure. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1204/1734/files/DTS-1-Spec-and-Install-Sheet.pdf?v=1679066798 I remember using something like this before Sol-Ark got their gen exercise capabilities dialed in. I also remember setting a weekly timer on my phone to manually run a customers generator via the app… On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 6:39 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > It's a Generac NextGen. None of the Generacs (Evo, Evo2, NextGen) allow > exercise with remote start enabled. > > I didn't install it - just got stuck with it, and after promising I could > use EG4 to exercise, I got pie in my face. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2026, 6:14 PM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> what generator do you have? >> >> jay >> >> On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading >> documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: >> >> *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open >> connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery >> SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be >> configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* >> >> I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator >> exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many >> generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when >> remote-start capability is enabled. >> >> So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you >> can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the >> generator from the app. >> >> Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and >> clueless tech support. >> >> Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this >> function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for >> power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on >> a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 8 15:40:33 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2026 15:40:33 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Update: Thanks to those of you who suggested various AGS relay devices. They all seem a bit overkill and costly for simply connecting two wires together once a week, but they are all great suggestions nonetheless. I confirmed that a little $18 Shelly 1 Gen4 device will do what I need it to do. I'm not sure how it will hold up in various environmental conditions, but we will see! Also, I just heard from my EG4 technical rep. He pointed out that there is a generator exercise option for the FlexBOSS inverters, so if the two-wire start is connected to the master inverter, it would presumably work to exercise the generator; however, there are no SOC start/stop parameters available for the inverters when a GridBOSS is connected. I suppose if you connect both the GridBOSS and FlexBOSS two-wire start terminals in parallel, it might work where each device can fulfill a separate function, but I would have to test that out. Regardless, it's pretty shocking that they missed the exercise function on the GridBOSS, which is designed to be a single point of generator connection for all inverters and to remotely control generator functions. The GridBOSS has been out for a while, too, and it hasn't been fixed. They have to know about this. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 5:42 PM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > Seriously. It shouldn't be this hard. The site I just got burned on is > grid-tied, so generator exercise is even more important since it will > likely almost never run otherwise. > > On a good note, Midnite released firmware for their AIO that allows you to > put the Gen on the Grid port for off-grid and still use the AGS function, > but it is limited. At least there is an exercise cycle and run time, but no > amps start and limited voltage start options. > > EG4 does have manual start/auto off (what they call exercise), and > cooldown, but otherwise it's limited to V or SOC start/stop. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 4:51 PM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I really don’t know why AGS has been so hard with all these new inverter >> companies. It is a massive weak point for true offgrid. >> I can hear the howls now, but most people want AGS. Regardless many of >> those features below are also useful for manual start applications. >> >> I mean Trace had all this back in 1995 and nothing has changed in terms >> of what we want generator back up to do. >> >> Is there a AIO available today that have anything close to the list below? >> >> 2 and 3 wire start >> 24 hr, 2 hr, 15 minute volt/start time >> load start/start >> quiet time >> run time >> exercise period/time >> voltage input window >> hz input window >> manual start/stop >> manual start/auto shut off >> warm up >> cool down >> pre crank >> max crank >> post crank >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading >> documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: >> >> *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open >> connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery >> SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be >> configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* >> >> I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator >> exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many >> generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when >> remote-start capability is enabled. >> >> So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you >> can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the >> generator from the app. >> >> Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and >> clueless tech support. >> >> Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this >> function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for >> power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on >> a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Wed Apr 8 15:54:24 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2026 15:54:24 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason I have a 3D printed nylon case and fully Potted the shelly in it for outdoor use. One has been operating in full FL sun and rain outdoors with zero issues. Pretty easy to make the Shelly 100% long living in the FL weather. See attached. On Wed, Apr 8, 2026 at 3:41 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Update: > > Thanks to those of you who suggested various AGS relay devices. They all > seem a bit overkill and costly for simply connecting two wires together once > a week, but they are all great suggestions nonetheless. I confirmed that a > little $18 Shelly 1 Gen4 device will do what I need it to do. I'm not sure > how it will hold up in various environmental conditions, but we will see! > > Also, I just heard from my EG4 technical rep. He pointed out that there > is a generator exercise option for the FlexBOSS inverters, so if the > two-wire start is connected to the master inverter, it would presumably > work to exercise the generator; however, there are no SOC start/stop > parameters available for the inverters when a GridBOSS is connected. I > suppose if you connect both the GridBOSS and FlexBOSS two-wire start > terminals in parallel, it might work where each device can fulfill a > separate function, but I would have to test that out. > > Regardless, it's pretty shocking that they missed the exercise function on > the GridBOSS, which is designed to be a single point of generator > connection for all inverters and to remotely control generator functions. > The GridBOSS has been out for a while, too, and it hasn't been fixed. > They have to know about this. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 5:42 PM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> Seriously. It shouldn't be this hard. The site I just got burned on is >> grid-tied, so generator exercise is even more important since it will >> likely almost never run otherwise. >> >> On a good note, Midnite released firmware for their AIO that allows >> you to put the Gen on the Grid port for off-grid and still use the AGS >> function, but it is limited. At least there is an exercise cycle and run >> time, but no amps start and limited voltage start options. >> >> EG4 does have manual start/auto off (what they call exercise), and >> cooldown, but otherwise it's limited to V or SOC start/stop. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 4:51 PM jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I really don’t know why AGS has been so hard with all these new inverter >>> companies. It is a massive weak point for true offgrid. >>> I can hear the howls now, but most people want AGS. Regardless many of >>> those features below are also useful for manual start applications. >>> >>> I mean Trace had all this back in 1995 and nothing has changed in terms >>> of what we want generator back up to do. >>> >>> Is there a AIO available today that have anything close to the list >>> below? >>> >>> 2 and 3 wire start >>> 24 hr, 2 hr, 15 minute volt/start time >>> load start/start >>> quiet time >>> run time >>> exercise period/time >>> voltage input window >>> hz input window >>> manual start/stop >>> manual start/auto shut off >>> warm up >>> cool down >>> pre crank >>> max crank >>> post crank >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading >>> documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: >>> >>> *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open >>> connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery >>> SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be >>> configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* >>> >>> I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator >>> exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many >>> generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when >>> remote-start capability is enabled. >>> >>> So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you >>> can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start the >>> generator from the app. >>> >>> Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and >>> clueless tech support. >>> >>> Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this >>> function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for >>> power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on >>> a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_5208.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1960127 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 8 16:06:12 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2026 16:06:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great feedback! I should pot mine because I plan to put it in the generator control compartment. On Wed, Apr 8, 2026 at 3:57 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jason > > I have a 3D printed nylon case and fully Potted the shelly in it for > outdoor use. One has been operating in full FL sun and rain outdoors with > zero issues. > Pretty easy to make the Shelly 100% long living in the FL weather. See > attached. > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2026 at 3:41 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Update: >> >> Thanks to those of you who suggested various AGS relay devices. They all >> seem a bit overkill and costly for simply connecting two wires together once >> a week, but they are all great suggestions nonetheless. I confirmed that a >> little $18 Shelly 1 Gen4 device will do what I need it to do. I'm not sure >> how it will hold up in various environmental conditions, but we will see! >> >> Also, I just heard from my EG4 technical rep. He pointed out that there >> is a generator exercise option for the FlexBOSS inverters, so if the >> two-wire start is connected to the master inverter, it would presumably >> work to exercise the generator; however, there are no SOC start/stop >> parameters available for the inverters when a GridBOSS is connected. I >> suppose if you connect both the GridBOSS and FlexBOSS two-wire start >> terminals in parallel, it might work where each device can fulfill a >> separate function, but I would have to test that out. >> >> Regardless, it's pretty shocking that they missed the exercise function >> on the GridBOSS, which is designed to be a single point of generator >> connection for all inverters and to remotely control generator >> functions. The GridBOSS has been out for a while, too, and it hasn't >> been fixed. They have to know about this. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 5:42 PM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> Seriously. It shouldn't be this hard. The site I just got burned on is >>> grid-tied, so generator exercise is even more important since it will >>> likely almost never run otherwise. >>> >>> On a good note, Midnite released firmware for their AIO that allows >>> you to put the Gen on the Grid port for off-grid and still use the AGS >>> function, but it is limited. At least there is an exercise cycle and run >>> time, but no amps start and limited voltage start options. >>> >>> EG4 does have manual start/auto off (what they call exercise), and >>> cooldown, but otherwise it's limited to V or SOC start/stop. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2026 at 4:51 PM jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I really don’t know why AGS has been so hard with all these new >>>> inverter companies. It is a massive weak point for true offgrid. >>>> I can hear the howls now, but most people want AGS. Regardless many of >>>> those features below are also useful for manual start applications. >>>> >>>> I mean Trace had all this back in 1995 and nothing has changed in terms >>>> of what we want generator back up to do. >>>> >>>> Is there a AIO available today that have anything close to the list >>>> below? >>>> >>>> 2 and 3 wire start >>>> 24 hr, 2 hr, 15 minute volt/start time >>>> load start/start >>>> quiet time >>>> run time >>>> exercise period/time >>>> voltage input window >>>> hz input window >>>> manual start/stop >>>> manual start/auto shut off >>>> warm up >>>> cool down >>>> pre crank >>>> max crank >>>> post crank >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 7, 2026, at 1:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Here we go again with a manufacturer providing poor and misleading >>>> documentation. The EG4 GridBOSS manual says: >>>> >>>> *The GridBOSS should use start/stop relay 1 in the normally open >>>> connection. Start/stop relay 1 can be controlled manually or by battery >>>> SOC/voltage logic within the EG4® Monitor Center. The generator can also be >>>> configured with warm-up, cool-down, and exercise time.* >>>> >>>> I just learned that there is, in fact, no automatic scheduled generator >>>> exercise feature on the GridBOSS. This is a real problem because many >>>> generator controls disable the onboard exercise function when >>>> remote-start capability is enabled. >>>> >>>> So what is "exercise time" in EG4's world? Apparently, that means you >>>> can set a duration for the generator to run when you MANUALLY start >>>> the generator from the app. >>>> >>>> Hope this saves someone else a big headache, hours of research, and >>>> clueless tech support. >>>> >>>> Any thoughts on a simple external relay in parallel to accomplish this >>>> function? I was thinking about a Shelly connected to a smart load for >>>> power in the GridBOSS. It just needs to be a programmable relay to close on >>>> a schedule. How reliable are Shelly relays for scheduled tasks? >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 18:04:07 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2026 16:04:07 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F0F2154-DBFC-4EFA-9514-0B012782E729@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Apr 9 10:37:45 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2026 14:37:45 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: <9F0F2154-DBFC-4EFA-9514-0B012782E729@gmail.com> References: <9F0F2154-DBFC-4EFA-9514-0B012782E729@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sunday at 4PM once a month my generator runs exercise & surprises me every time, esp. if it is sunny out..... _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Jay via RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2026 22:04:07 +0000 Size: 46480 URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Apr 9 12:11:14 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2026 12:11:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large AC Coupled System Message-ID: Hi all, I'm looking for a solution for a 69 kW (AC rating) microinverter system that I need to AC couple behind a hybrid inverter at 120/208 with no grid export. Three Sol-Ark 18K? Any thoughts? Before you ask why... I need to figure out how to AC couple the existing microinverter system that was built on a site before they figured out if they could netmeter it. Turns out, we need to take it off the grid. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Apr 9 13:04:55 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2026 13:04:55 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 GridBOSS Generator Exercise In-Reply-To: References: <9F0F2154-DBFC-4EFA-9514-0B012782E729@gmail.com> Message-ID: As much as I want the GridBOSS to implement a weekly generator exercise, a third-party option might actually be better because I don't think weekly is really necessary. Every other week is probably just fine and saves fuel, especially for people with limited fuel capacity and difficult (expensive) fuel delivery. If EG4 and Midnite are listening, maybe work on flexibility for weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, or even more flexible variations. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 10:42 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Sunday at 4PM once a month my generator runs exercise & surprises me every > time, esp. if it is sunny out….. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Apr 9 22:11:30 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2026 19:11:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PG&E NEM Message-ID: Dear Cali-Wrenches: I finally got my Unirac RM10EVO ballasted ground mount approved. Unirac offered a wet stamp service for a modest $350 and that carried the day with the building department. Now I need to submit the paperwork to PG&E. The NEM application was done three years ago and the equipment we specified then is of course no longer available. PG&E has a rule that you can substitute equipment if the rated power is no greater than the application or no less than 80% of the application, and we meet that criteria. The portal will ask if I am using the original equipment. The last one I did I fibbed. Have any of you changed equipment for an existing NEM application? Was it a big deal or not? We ended up with a used SB600US. Will the used equipment be a problem? Thanks again for all of the great advice. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blake at sunlightandpower.com Thu Apr 9 23:46:09 2026 From: blake at sunlightandpower.com (Blake Gleason) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2026 20:46:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PG&E NEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi William, We have changed equipment on several projects (while keeping total power just under the original application, as you stated), and have achieved NEM2 PTO from PG&E. These were all projects sold by other contractors (with various wacky equipment specified) which we took over because the other contractors could not perform (went out of business, etc). Regarding the used inverter: if the customer is ok with it, I assume no one else needs to know that it's used. However, one concern with PG&E is that the inverter model number needs current grid support / Rule 21 / 1741 SB listing. That's one thing they will for sure get hung up on, so it may require you to switch to a new(er) inverter. Good luck! Best, Blake Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence O: 510-845-2997 x128 C: 510-867-5878 [image: sunlightandpower.com] 1035 Folger Ave. Berkeley, CA 94710 www.sunlightandpower.com License #326203 [image: https://www.amicussolar.com/] [image: https://calssa.org/] On Thu, Apr 9, 2026, 7:13 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Dear Cali-Wrenches: > > > > I finally got my Unirac RM10EVO ballasted ground mount approved. Unirac > offered a wet stamp service for a modest $350 and that carried the day with > the building department. > > > > Now I need to submit the paperwork to PG&E. The NEM application was done > three years ago and the equipment we specified then is of course no longer > available. PG&E has a rule that you can substitute equipment if the rated > power is no greater than the application or no less than 80% of the > application, and we meet that criteria. > > > > The portal will ask if I am using the original equipment. The last one I > did I fibbed. > > > > Have any of you changed equipment for an existing NEM application? Was it > a big deal or not? We ended up with a used SB600US. Will the used > equipment be a problem? > > > > Thanks again for all of the great advice. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benn at skyfireenergy.com Thu Apr 9 13:25:53 2026 From: benn at skyfireenergy.com (Benn Kilburn) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2026 11:25:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 lifespan Message-ID: Hi there Wrenches far and wide, I’m wondering what sort of lifespans you’ve been seeing or expecting from the XW4548 Hybrid Inverter/Charger line. I’m swapping out the batteries on one that was manufactured jun19/2008. I don’t have much insight on the system overall other than the batteries are 5yrs old and have been charging hotter than usual and the owner accepts a bit of maintenance neglect. Thanks, Benn Kilburn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From don at energysolarnow.com Fri Apr 10 17:14:08 2026 From: don at energysolarnow.com (don energysolarnow.com) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 21:14:08 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PG&E NEM Message-ID: Blake G is correct that PGE now requires grid support inverters. Their portal drop-down menu of approved inverters no longer includes the SB6000US. They won't let you use what's no longer on their approved list. You will want to use, or at least claim to use, the SBSE5.8-US-50. That's what I had to do for the same issue as you. Or it may be easier to just claim you used the original equipment. DonB On Thu, Apr 9, 2026, 7:13?PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Dear Cali-Wrenches: > > I finally got my Unirac RM10EVO ballasted ground mount approved. Unirac > offered a wet stamp service for a modest $350 and that carried the day with > the building department. > > Now I need to submit the paperwork to PG&E. The NEM application was done > three years ago and the equipment we specified then is of course no longer > available. PG&E has a rule that you can substitute equipment if the rated > power is no greater than the application or no less than 80% of the > application, and we meet that criteria. > > The portal will ask if I am using the original equipment. The last one I > did I fibbed. > > Have any of you changed equipment for an existing NEM application? Was it > a big deal or not? We ended up with a used SB600US. Will the used > equipment be a problem? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Fri Apr 10 19:04:11 2026 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 16:04:11 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error Message-ID: Hello Wrenches Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and no shade. Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo products. We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else to try at this point. Thank you, Vince McClellan President NABCEP PV Professional p: 541-485-8122 a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com w: SolarEnergyDesign.com CCB# 161672 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Fri Apr 10 19:30:59 2026 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 16:30:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown In-Reply-To: <55322f9217de2e681baf0ffd01eeef4f@mail.gmail.com> References: <9a3e694632afb0e598ae26ed26bf9fa7@redwoodalliance.org> <55322f9217de2e681baf0ffd01eeef4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi William We've also had issue with RSD switches. Most of our issues have been with Tigo, but another contractor that I know has had issues with the AP smart RSD switches as well. The irony doesn't escape me that we are installing expensive products that are supposed to help protect fire fighters, but the very thing we're installing can cause fires. I'll take your suggestions to heart. Thanks, Vince McClellan President NABCEP PV Professional p: 541-485-8122 a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com w: SolarEnergyDesign.com CCB# 161672 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 12:58 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Below is a message I received off-line a while ago re: AP Smart, along > with photos. > > > > I thought I’d contact you off list. You have been asking about RSD units, > I wanted to pass along my experience with the AP Smart RSD unit. I’ll let > the pictures do most of the talking - see below. Bottom line, APSmart is a > nice little easy piece of plastic junk to install and commission. However, > when something goes wrong it can be a real pain to ID the fault. They have > a little gadget that you have to wave over the conductors to listen for a > pulse (not always easy on a roof! I went thru 2 inverters about 6 hrs on > the phone with SMA (I got ALL sorts of weird errors, but only 1 arc fault), > 2 weeks of back and forth with AP Systems/Smart. After I finally got the > arc fault, in an act of desperation, I started tearing the array apart at > significant expense and much frustration by my client (he totally lost > faith in solar and had been wanting it for years) I finally found the > problem. Luckily this one was on a new install on a metal roof and not on > a system that had been through a few seasons with build up of leaf detritus > under the array on an asphalt shingle roof. I’ve been at this for 17yrs > now and have never had a piece of equipment fail this catastrophically - > especially a piece of unnecessary safety equipment. Their tech support > engineer, while well meaning, is extremely difficult to understand due to > language barrier and completely failed to take any responsibility for this > failure which could have resulted in a house fire and who knows what else…. > My strong recommendation is to limit the use of any RSD unless pressed to > do so by an AHJ. It’s my opinion that these units should be at least in > metallic enclosures. I worked at Tigo back before RSD was a “thing” and do > see the advantages, but I just think (like BB) that there are more > downsides than up at this point in time given the available tech. I keep > this unit in my van and show every AHJ then ask them to tell me what they > want me to do in writing. I am not going to be on the hook the > consequences of such a catastrophic failure. > > > > > > > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > *From:* Tyrone Houck [mailto:tyronehouck at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Friday, April 3, 2026 10:17 AM > *To:* william at millersolar.com > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Insurance and rapid shutdown > > > > Thanks for sharing. I've asked this group multiple times for any anecdotes > or pictures of APSmarts failing and never recieved any response. Tigo > failures are mentioned often. Personally, I've installed upwards of 1000 > APs with no issue(I don't make a habit of stress testing them by > repeatedly hitting the switch during peak production though). All that > said, I wouldn’t bother installing them in a situation that didn't warrant > RSS. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2026, 10:06 AM William Miller > wrote: > > I have seen photos of one AP Smart RSD that had melted and burst into > flames. > > > > The job they are required to do : open a high voltage, arc sustaining > circuit under load is a difficult task to accomplish, especially in a small > package in an extreme environment. > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 10:00 AM Tyrone Houck > wrote: > > If considering retrofitting rapid shutdown I would recommend APSmart. I > have never had any failures or heard of anyone else who has. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2026, 8:05 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > If he wants to be more assured of filing an insurance claim he should > install RSS. > > > > Seriously, the equipment has a bad safety record. I would recommend a > safety inspection and a modern charge controller with arc flash and ground > fault detection over RSS. > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 7:46 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > A client, for an off grid system, is in an area with no code requirements > nor inspections. He is concerned that if he does not get rapid shutdown, it > could affect his ability to get an insurance claim paid, if ever needed. > > > > The array is on a separate utility building that houses a water pump and > tank as well as the inverter and batteries. Since there is more in the > building than just solar related equipment, RS is technically required. > > > > Has anyone ever had to deal with this issue? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Drake > > > > > > -- > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Fri Apr 10 19:53:39 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (david quattro) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 16:53:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings unadulterated Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches > Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly > shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The > errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per > MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online > data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only > every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the > online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same > number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. > > We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT 2 > and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and > no shade. > > Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD > switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo > products. > > We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of cloud > affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. > > We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every > possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no > mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. > > Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they are > assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. > > I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else to > try at this point. > > Thank you, > > > Vince McClellan > > President > > NABCEP PV Professional > > p: 541-485-8122 > > a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 > > e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com > > w: SolarEnergyDesign.com > > CCB# 161672 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please > delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Apr 10 20:59:07 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 17:59:07 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PG&E NEM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don: I claimed the equipment was the same as in the application. I have exhorted the client to find and install a Sol-Arc 15 (the equipment applied for) ASAP. I assume they are still available. I see some for sale on line. The modules also don’t match but the one we chose are on the approved list so I see less repercussion on the rare chance we get audited. Thanks, everyone, You helped me dodge a bullet. If I had switched to the SB6000 I might have blown the Nem2 option. There is a certain amount of stress to this business (although you all are well aware). If you make a mistake you can cost your client and yourself a lot of money and grief. I’d really hate for anyone to lose the coveted NEM2. I did and it sucks. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* don energysolarnow.com [mailto:don at energysolarnow.com] *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2026 2:14 PM *To:* RE-wrenches; William Miller *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] PG&E NEM Blake G is correct that PGE now requires grid support inverters. Their portal drop-down menu of approved inverters no longer includes the SB6000US. They won't let you use what's no longer on their approved list. You will want to use, or at least claim to use, the SBSE5.8-US-50. That's what I had to do for the same issue as you. Or it may be easier to just claim you used the original equipment. DonB On Thu, Apr 9, 2026, 7:13?PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Dear Cali-Wrenches: > > I finally got my Unirac RM10EVO ballasted ground mount approved. Unirac > offered a wet stamp service for a modest $350 and that carried the day with > the building department. > > Now I need to submit the paperwork to PG&E. The NEM application was done > three years ago and the equipment we specified then is of course no longer > available. PG&E has a rule that you can substitute equipment if the rated > power is no greater than the application or no less than 80% of the > application, and we meet that criteria. > > The portal will ask if I am using the original equipment. The last one I > did I fibbed. > > Have any of you changed equipment for an existing NEM application? Was it > a big deal or not? We ended up with a used SB600US. Will the used > equipment be a problem? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Fri Apr 10 16:10:19 2026 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 20:10:19 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 lifespan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have many of the XW+ series inverter chargers in the field and they have been bullet proof. I am not sure what the longest running system install date is but I believe it has been in service for at least 20 years. Sadly I cannot say the same for the XW pro series of products. Pieter Huebner Project Manager Off Grid Enterprises ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Benn Kilburn via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2026 12:25 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Benn Kilburn Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 lifespan Hi there Wrenches far and wide, I’m wondering what sort of lifespans you’ve been seeing or expecting from the XW4548 Hybrid Inverter/Charger line. I’m swapping out the batteries on one that was manufactured jun19/2008. I don’t have much insight on the system overall other than the batteries are 5yrs old and have been charging hotter than usual and the owner accepts a bit of maintenance neglect. Thanks, Benn Kilburn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 08:28:52 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 06:28:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 lifespan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89FD4E14-48C6-4529-B986-4B7A4703E103@gmail.com> Way too many variables to know 6 days to 6 years. When inverters get this old I tell people they have 2 choices. Run it until it dies or starts to have issues often leaving them without power ,running on a generator or replace on your schedule and product availability No right or wrong answer really. > On Apr 10, 2026, at 12:47 AM, Benn Kilburn via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi there Wrenches far and wide, > > I’m wondering what sort of lifespans you’ve been seeing or expecting from the XW4548 Hybrid Inverter/Charger line. > I’m swapping out the batteries on one that was manufactured jun19/2008. > > I don’t have much insight on the system overall other than the batteries are 5yrs old and have been charging hotter than usual and the owner accepts a bit of maintenance neglect. > > Thanks, > Benn Kilburn > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Fri Apr 10 22:01:12 2026 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2026 19:01:12 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi David I appreciate your help. I hadn't thought of swapping strings because the MPPT channel that is triggering the F20 error is always different. It could be worth a try anyway as it's easy to do. I do think we're down to swapping the inverter to see if that clears the issue. Sol-Ark hasn't been much help on this one. Have a great weekend, Vince McClellan President NABCEP PV Professional p: 541-485-8122 a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com w: SolarEnergyDesign.com CCB# 161672 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:54 PM david quattro wrote: > i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each > specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. > Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a > different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings > unadulterated > Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello Wrenches >> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >> >> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT 2 >> and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >> no shade. >> >> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >> products. >> >> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >> >> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >> >> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they are >> assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >> >> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else to >> try at this point. >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Vince McClellan >> >> President >> >> NABCEP PV Professional >> >> p: 541-485-8122 >> >> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >> >> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >> >> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >> >> CCB# 161672 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >> of this email is strictly prohibited. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sat Apr 11 09:08:54 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 07:08:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A recent thread included Quiet Time in the list of non-included features with newer inverters. And I too have had customers asking for this. But, in many cases, I find that quiet time is not actually a useable feature for many current off grid houses with lithium batteries, and this is why. With lead acid battery banks, we typically designed for the generator to start around 50% SOC. But, occasionally we could discharge down to 20% SOC without damaging the batteries long term. And, typical off grid houses were usually designed with fewer nighttime loads, compared to nowadays. So, if the battery bank hit 50% SOC at 9pm, but quiet times extended till 8am, we still usually had plenty of reserve left to wait till 8am before starting the generator without any additional failures or battery damage. But a lot of current off grid systems with lithium batteries are sizing for a lower days of autonomy (because of the higher cost of lithium batteries, though that's changing now), and deeper regular depth of discharges. Generator start is often set at 20 or 30% SOC instead of 50%. If we are planning for regularly discharging below 50% SOC overnight, which I do commonly see, there's not nearly so much reserve capacity to wait for a generator start. If we hit 20% SOC at 9pm, with a smaller battery bank relative to the load, and a higher nighttime load from more things remaining on all night that we never used to have (routers, internet, heating system controls/pumps/etc), then the chances of us making it till 8am to wait for the generator start is a lot lower -- we risk a BMS shutdown of the battery sometimes betwen 0% and 10%, before 8am, which depending on the particular equipment can be a difficult situation to recover from. Many AIO's will only black start batteries from solar, not generator, and most (though not all) older charge controllers and inverters will not black start batteries from either solar or generator. So, because we are using deeper discharges, using more energy overnight, and waiting longer before a SOC based generator start, we often don't have the option of waiting 4 or 8 hours or such to start the generator. It needs to start very soon after the call for it, or we run into further problems. What would be ideal is a system that looks at SOC before quite times would start, and if it's not sufficient to make it through a typical night because it's been a cloudy day, starts and runs the generator a bit before quite times start, rather than hoping to make it to morning before running it. An experienced off grid owner can do this automatically, topping the batteries off before going into the night if they are too low. But unexperienced owners or ones who just don't watch their battery SOC all the time, will not. Perhaps we'll come up with AI driving controls that watch the typical batery use patterns and look at the weather forecast, and can do this, just like the experienced off grid operator does. Zeke -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 11:16:57 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 08:16:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Vince, The f20 overcurrent error can also be a product of a loose or undersized battery cable(or not using a Y buss on the battery terminals) or the inverter trying to pull more current under load than bms allows(check max discharge amps vs battery/bms ratings). Limit to home mode can also cause an issue under abrupt switching of large AC loads-the confounding "High voltage DC buss" limitation of AIO inverters. I have noticed this when an AIO is trying to support input side main panel loads. If none of those things inform the diagnosis it may need a firmware update. Best of luck! On Fri, Apr 10, 2026, 7:08 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi David > I appreciate your help. I hadn't thought of swapping strings because the > MPPT channel that is triggering the F20 error is always different. It could > be worth a try anyway as it's easy to do. I do think we're down to swapping > the inverter to see if that clears the issue. > > Sol-Ark hasn't been much help on this one. > > Have a great weekend, > > > Vince McClellan > > President > > NABCEP PV Professional > > p: 541-485-8122 > > a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 > > > e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com > > w: SolarEnergyDesign.com > > CCB# 161672 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please > delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:54 PM david quattro > wrote: > >> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >> unadulterated >> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hello Wrenches >>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>> >>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT 2 >>> and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >>> no shade. >>> >>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>> products. >>> >>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>> >>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>> >>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>> >>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else to >>> try at this point. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> Vince McClellan >>> >>> President >>> >>> NABCEP PV Professional >>> >>> p: 541-485-8122 >>> >>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>> >>> >>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>> >>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>> >>> CCB# 161672 >>> >>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Apr 11 11:33:03 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 11:33:03 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're making the case for multiple AGS start setpoints. There should be a quiet time override SOC for AGS. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 9:10 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > A recent thread included Quiet Time in the list of non-included features > with newer inverters. And I too have had customers asking for this. But, > in many cases, I find that quiet time is not actually a useable feature for > many current off grid houses with lithium batteries, and this is why. > > With lead acid battery banks, we typically designed for the generator to > start around 50% SOC. But, occasionally we could discharge down to 20% SOC > without damaging the batteries long term. And, typical off grid houses > were usually designed with fewer nighttime loads, compared to nowadays. > So, if the battery bank hit 50% SOC at 9pm, but quiet times extended till > 8am, we still usually had plenty of reserve left to wait till 8am before > starting the generator without any additional failures or battery damage. > > But a lot of current off grid systems with lithium batteries are sizing > for a lower days of autonomy (because of the higher cost of lithium > batteries, though that's changing now), and deeper regular depth of > discharges. Generator start is often set at 20 or 30% SOC instead of 50%. > If we are planning for regularly discharging below 50% SOC overnight, which > I do commonly see, there's not nearly so much reserve capacity to wait for > a generator start. If we hit 20% SOC at 9pm, with a smaller battery bank > relative to the load, and a higher nighttime load from more things > remaining on all night that we never used to have (routers, internet, > heating system controls/pumps/etc), then the chances of us making it till > 8am to wait for the generator start is a lot lower -- we risk a BMS > shutdown of the battery sometimes betwen 0% and 10%, before 8am, which > depending on the particular equipment can be a difficult situation to > recover from. Many AIO's will only black start batteries from solar, not > generator, and most (though not all) older charge controllers and inverters > will not black start batteries from either solar or generator. > > So, because we are using deeper discharges, using more energy overnight, > and waiting longer before a SOC based generator start, we often don't have > the option of waiting 4 or 8 hours or such to start the generator. It > needs to start very soon after the call for it, or we run into further > problems. > > What would be ideal is a system that looks at SOC before quite times would > start, and if it's not sufficient to make it through a typical night > because it's been a cloudy day, starts and runs the generator a bit before > quite times start, rather than hoping to make it to morning before running > it. An experienced off grid owner can do this automatically, topping the > batteries off before going into the night if they are too low. But > unexperienced owners or ones who just don't watch their battery SOC all the > time, will not. Perhaps we'll come up with AI driving controls that watch > the typical batery use patterns and look at the weather forecast, and can > do this, just like the experienced off grid operator does. > > Zeke > > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Apr 11 11:36:15 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 11:36:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You might consider taking this one step further and physically disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each > specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. > Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a > different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings > unadulterated > Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello Wrenches >> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >> >> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT 2 >> and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >> no shade. >> >> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >> products. >> >> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >> >> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >> >> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they are >> assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >> >> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else to >> try at this point. >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Vince McClellan >> >> President >> >> NABCEP PV Professional >> >> p: 541-485-8122 >> >> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >> >> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >> >> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >> >> CCB# 161672 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >> of this email is strictly prohibited. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich at solartechvt.com Sat Apr 11 11:50:12 2026 From: rich at solartechvt.com (Richard Nicol) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 11:50:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <242E8B62-E03F-4687-90A3-32A1173E4251@solartechvt.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 168628 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 144296 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 12:14:03 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 09:14:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: <242E8B62-E03F-4687-90A3-32A1173E4251@solartechvt.com> References: <242E8B62-E03F-4687-90A3-32A1173E4251@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: Thank you! This likely just saved one of my customers(at least!) the cost of a new fm100! Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC CCB #204937 LRT #076 541-787-1366 tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com On Sat, Apr 11, 2026, 8:51 AM Richard Nicol via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Reviving an older topic with a new learning regarding FM100 resetting to > defaults after a shutdown event. > Memory is battery dependent rather than solid state. > There is a button cell battery (2032), on the circuit board attached to > the lid, with the leds on it. Three phillips screws hold it in place. > Apparently Outback knows they have had batches of these batteries. > [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg] > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 10, 2026, at 2:18 PM, Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Yes, it keeps happening to me as well. At least 8 times now. The first > couple times I blamed myself and thought I had made the rookie default > settings mistake I see on other's sites but now I know better. Only the > FM100. Just got back from a site that resulted in the client's Radian > shutting down due to battery volt sense faults from it. First time it has > caused shutdowns though. Looks like her Blue Ions had been sitting at 57.6 > for months now. Unfortunately she has Hughesnet that almost never works > with Opticsre otherwise I would have caught it. Extremely frustrating, I've > easily eaten enough service calls and equipment failures for Outback over > the years that I could have paid off a Toyota Yaris. No exaggeration. > > Nick > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 2:58 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers resetting to >> default settings? I just had a FM100 do this (and shut the whole system >> down because the default settings were too high of voltage for a 15 cell >> LFP, so the battery turned itself off for protection). The logs show that >> the values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the default >> settings from 0, on site. But no one was on site. I changed them back >> remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as changing them back, as it should >> have. >> >> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and always kind >> of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing with the system, but this >> time I know that no one was there to adjust it locally at the time that it >> says it was changed. >> >> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, that the FM100 >> may have reset to default settings as well. Same thing -- lithium >> batteries shutting off from overvoltage all of a sudden. I am still >> investigating that one. >> >> Zeke >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 168628 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 144296 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 168628 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 144296 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 12:59:40 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 10:59:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <376FAC1A-6151-4A4F-BDF7-1A6CB3B18BC8@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 16:33:55 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 16:33:55 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: <376FAC1A-6151-4A4F-BDF7-1A6CB3B18BC8@gmail.com> References: <376FAC1A-6151-4A4F-BDF7-1A6CB3B18BC8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Another nice-to-have feature would be Gen stop based on PV production. Customers dislike hearing their generator run to finish a charge cycle in the am when the sun is out. On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 1:01 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My thoughts exactly > > On Apr 11, 2026, at 9:35 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > You're making the case for multiple AGS start setpoints. There should be a > quiet time override SOC for AGS. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 9:10 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> A recent thread included Quiet Time in the list of non-included features >> with newer inverters. And I too have had customers asking for this. But, >> in many cases, I find that quiet time is not actually a useable feature for >> many current off grid houses with lithium batteries, and this is why. >> >> With lead acid battery banks, we typically designed for the generator to >> start around 50% SOC. But, occasionally we could discharge down to 20% SOC >> without damaging the batteries long term. And, typical off grid houses >> were usually designed with fewer nighttime loads, compared to nowadays. >> So, if the battery bank hit 50% SOC at 9pm, but quiet times extended till >> 8am, we still usually had plenty of reserve left to wait till 8am before >> starting the generator without any additional failures or battery damage. >> >> But a lot of current off grid systems with lithium batteries are sizing >> for a lower days of autonomy (because of the higher cost of lithium >> batteries, though that's changing now), and deeper regular depth of >> discharges. Generator start is often set at 20 or 30% SOC instead of 50%. >> If we are planning for regularly discharging below 50% SOC overnight, which >> I do commonly see, there's not nearly so much reserve capacity to wait for >> a generator start. If we hit 20% SOC at 9pm, with a smaller battery bank >> relative to the load, and a higher nighttime load from more things >> remaining on all night that we never used to have (routers, internet, >> heating system controls/pumps/etc), then the chances of us making it till >> 8am to wait for the generator start is a lot lower -- we risk a BMS >> shutdown of the battery sometimes betwen 0% and 10%, before 8am, which >> depending on the particular equipment can be a difficult situation to >> recover from. Many AIO's will only black start batteries from solar, not >> generator, and most (though not all) older charge controllers and inverters >> will not black start batteries from either solar or generator. >> >> So, because we are using deeper discharges, using more energy overnight, >> and waiting longer before a SOC based generator start, we often don't have >> the option of waiting 4 or 8 hours or such to start the generator. It >> needs to start very soon after the call for it, or we run into further >> problems. >> >> What would be ideal is a system that looks at SOC before quite times >> would start, and if it's not sufficient to make it through a typical night >> because it's been a cloudy day, starts and runs the generator a bit before >> quite times start, rather than hoping to make it to morning before running >> it. An experienced off grid owner can do this automatically, topping the >> batteries off before going into the night if they are too low. But >> unexperienced owners or ones who just don't watch their battery SOC all the >> time, will not. Perhaps we'll come up with AI driving controls that watch >> the typical batery use patterns and look at the weather forecast, and can >> do this, just like the experienced off grid operator does. >> >> Zeke >> >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sat Apr 11 17:22:55 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 15:22:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: <242E8B62-E03F-4687-90A3-32A1173E4251@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: <551c1278-40be-4ed8-9fcc-a24a5c69a2bb@solarray.com> So is there still no way to reprogram the FM100 without a MATE 3?  I just sold off my spare MATE3.  Always thought it was lame you needed such an expensive interface just to make adjustments. Resetting to factory programming used to be a pain, but now with LiPO4 batteries it can be a downright fire hazard. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 4/11/2026 10:14 AM, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches wrote: > Thank you! This likely just saved one of my customers(at least!) the > cost of a new fm100! > > Tyrone Houck > Oregon Solarworks LLC > CCB #204937 LRT #076 > 541-787-1366 > tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2026, 8:51 AM Richard Nicol via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Reviving an older topic with a new learning regarding FM100 > resetting to defaults after a shutdown event. > Memory is battery dependent rather than solid state. > There is a button cell battery (2032), on the circuit board > attached to the lid, with the leds on it. Three phillips screws > hold it in place. > Apparently Outback knows they have had batches of these batteries. > image0.jpegimage1.jpeg > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 10, 2026, at 2:18 PM, Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> Yes, it keeps happening to me as well. At least 8 times now. The >> first couple times I blamed myself and thought I had made the >> rookie default settings mistake I see on other's sites but now I >> know better. Only the FM100. Just got back from a site that >> resulted in the client's Radian shutting down due to battery volt >> sense faults from it. First time it has caused shutdowns though. >> Looks like her Blue Ions had been sitting at 57.6 for months now. >> Unfortunately she has Hughesnet that almost never works with >> Opticsre otherwise I would have caught it. Extremely frustrating, >> I've easily eaten enough service calls and equipment failures for >> Outback over the years that I could have paid off a Toyota Yaris. >> No exaggeration. >> >> Nick >> >> On Fri, Jan 9, 2026 at 2:58 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Has anyone else had issues with outback charge controllers >> resetting to default settings?  I just had a FM100 do this >> (and shut the whole system down because the default settings >> were too high of voltage for a 15 cell LFP, so the battery >> turned itself off for protection).  The logs show that the >> values were set to 0 from the proper settings, then to the >> default settings from 0, on site.  But no one was on site.  I >> changed them back remotely via opticsRE, and it logged me as >> changing them back, as it should have. >> >> Occasionally in the past I've had similar things happen, and >> always kind of chalked it up to the customer perhaps messing >> with the system, but this time I know that no one was there >> to adjust it locally at the time that it says it was changed. >> >> I have another site this week that does not have opticsRE, >> that the FM100 may have reset to default settings as well.  >> Same thing -- lithium batteries shutting off from overvoltage >> all of a sudden.  I am still investigating that one. >> >> Zeke >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >> work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sat Apr 11 17:32:18 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 15:32:18 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: <376FAC1A-6151-4A4F-BDF7-1A6CB3B18BC8@gmail.com> Message-ID: All of these issues and more, are why I've tried to avoid AGS, and go with an educated customer as the gen start system.   Its been a losing battle lately: off grid people these days expect almost no sacrifices in loads, AGS, zero maintenance, and the system to cost under $15k, because they bought it all online from EG4.....and it installed itself!  The internet is amazing these days. Planning?  Load profiles?  Tilt adjustable racking for winter? More than 24 hours of battery storage? PV charging when the AIO inverter shuts off? Ray Walters remote solar On 4/11/2026 2:33 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: > Another nice-to-have feature would be Gen stop based on PV production. > Customers dislike hearing  their generator run to finish a charge > cycle in the am when the sun is out. > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 1:01 PM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > My thoughts exactly > >> On Apr 11, 2026, at 9:35 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> You're making the case for multiple AGS start setpoints. There >> should be a quiet time override SOC for AGS. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 9:10 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> A recent thread included Quiet Time in the list of >> non-included features with newer inverters.  And I too have >> had customers asking for this. But, in many cases, I find >> that quiet time is not actually a useable feature for many >> current off grid houses with lithium batteries, and this is why. >> >> With lead acid battery banks, we typically designed for the >> generator to start around 50% SOC.  But, occasionally we >> could discharge down to 20% SOC without damaging the >> batteries long term.  And, typical off grid houses were >> usually designed with fewer nighttime loads, compared to >> nowadays.   So, if the battery bank hit 50% SOC at 9pm, but >> quiet times extended till 8am, we still usually had plenty of >> reserve left to wait till 8am before starting the generator >> without any additional failures or battery damage. >> >> But a lot of current off grid systems with lithium batteries >> are sizing for a lower days of autonomy (because of the >> higher cost of lithium batteries, though that's changing >> now), and deeper regular depth of discharges. Generator start >> is often set at 20 or 30% SOC instead of 50%.  If we are >> planning for regularly discharging below 50% SOC overnight, >> which I do commonly see, there's not nearly so much reserve >> capacity to wait for a generator start.  If we hit 20% SOC at >> 9pm, with a smaller battery bank relative to the load, and a >> higher nighttime load from more things remaining on all night >> that we never used to have (routers, internet, heating system >> controls/pumps/etc), then the chances of us making it till >> 8am to wait for the generator start is a lot lower -- we risk >> a BMS shutdown of the battery sometimes betwen 0% and 10%, >> before 8am, which depending on the particular equipment can >> be a difficult situation to recover from.  Many AIO's will >> only black start batteries from solar, not generator, and >> most (though not all) older charge controllers and inverters >> will not black start batteries from either solar or generator. >> >> So, because we are using deeper discharges, using more energy >> overnight, and waiting longer before a SOC based generator >> start, we often don't have the option of waiting 4 or 8 hours >> or such to start the generator.  It needs to start very soon >> after the call for it, or we run into further problems. >> >> What would be ideal is a system that looks at SOC before >> quite times would start, and if it's not sufficient to make >> it through a typical night because it's been a cloudy day, >> starts and runs the generator a bit before quite times start, >> rather than hoping to make it to morning before running it.  >> An experienced off grid owner can do this automatically, >> topping the batteries off before going into the night if they >> are too low.  But unexperienced owners or ones who just don't >> watch their battery SOC all the time, will not.  Perhaps >> we'll come up with AI driving controls that watch the typical >> batery use patterns and look at the weather forecast, and can >> do this, just like the experienced off grid operator does. >> >> Zeke >> >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >> work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpegg at energyalternatives.ca Sat Apr 11 16:08:40 2026 From: kpegg at energyalternatives.ca (Kevin Pegg) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2026 20:08:40 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 lifespan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The older XW's were solid. We have a lot in the field. Keep 'em dry and don't overheat. Can't think of any that just failed on their own, couple from customer stupidity. Had a few units that had some heavy use that were starting to throw over temp codes periodically so proactively replaced. As Pieter said, the XW pro series is junk and have had to swap out almost all of those. I run my home and shop off a 2010 XW6048. Kevin From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 10, 2026 1:10 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: pieter offgridenterprises.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 lifespan We have many of the XW+ series inverter chargers in the field and they have been bullet proof. I am not sure what the longest running system install date is but I believe it has been in service for at least 20 years. Sadly I cannot say the same for the XW pro series of products. Pieter Huebner Project Manager Off Grid Enterprises ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches > on behalf of Benn Kilburn via RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2026 12:25 PM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Benn Kilburn > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 lifespan Hi there Wrenches far and wide, I'm wondering what sort of lifespans you've been seeing or expecting from the XW4548 Hybrid Inverter/Charger line. I'm swapping out the batteries on one that was manufactured jun19/2008. I don't have much insight on the system overall other than the batteries are 5yrs old and have been charging hotter than usual and the owner accepts a bit of maintenance neglect. Thanks, Benn Kilburn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Sun Apr 12 07:39:14 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (david quattro) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 04:39:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one string at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > You might consider taking this one step further and physically > disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times > a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >> unadulterated >> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hello Wrenches >>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>> >>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT 2 >>> and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >>> no shade. >>> >>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>> products. >>> >>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>> >>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>> >>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>> >>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else to >>> try at this point. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> >>> Vince McClellan >>> >>> President >>> >>> NABCEP PV Professional >>> >>> p: 541-485-8122 >>> >>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>> >>> >>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>> >>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>> >>> CCB# 161672 >>> >>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 08:34:00 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 06:34:00 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iesbatteries at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 08:40:58 2026 From: iesbatteries at gmail.com (Daryl DeJoy) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 08:40:58 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> References: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: We have over 130 Solark inverters installed, from 5k to multiples of 60k's and I have not seen that error at all. I have found their inverters to be reliable as long as their software updates are kept up to date. That's just my experience, though. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PVIP since 2006 Island Energy Storage On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 8:35 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Is this a common problem with Sol Ark inverters? > > > > On Apr 12, 2026, at 5:40 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one string > at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> You might consider taking this one step further and physically >> disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times >> a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >>> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >>> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >>> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >>> unadulterated >>> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Wrenches >>>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>>> >>>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT >>>> 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >>>> no shade. >>>> >>>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>>> products. >>>> >>>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>>> >>>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>>> >>>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>>> >>>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else >>>> to try at this point. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> >>>> Vince McClellan >>>> >>>> President >>>> >>>> NABCEP PV Professional >>>> >>>> p: 541-485-8122 >>>> >>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>>> >>>> >>>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>>> >>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>>> >>>> CCB# 161672 >>>> >>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Apr 12 10:43:28 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:43:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: I Daryl, I have a project that might benefit from ten Sol-Ark 30K (max in parallel). Did you work with a consulting engineer on your 60K projects? I am looking for qualified engineers who can handle large systems like this. Best, Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 8:46 AM Daryl DeJoy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We have over 130 Solark inverters installed, from 5k to multiples of 60k's > and I have not seen that error at all. I have found their inverters to be > reliable as long as their software updates are kept up to date. > That's just my experience, though. > > Daryl DeJoy > NABCEP Certified PVIP since 2006 > Island Energy Storage > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 8:35 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Is this a common problem with Sol Ark inverters? >> >> >> >> On Apr 12, 2026, at 5:40 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one string >> at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> You might consider taking this one step further and physically >>> disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times >>> a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >>>> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >>>> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >>>> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >>>> unadulterated >>>> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Wrenches >>>>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>>>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>>>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>>>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>>>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>>>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>>>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>>>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>>>> >>>>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT >>>>> 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >>>>> no shade. >>>>> >>>>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>>>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>>>> products. >>>>> >>>>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>>>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>>>> >>>>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>>>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>>>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>>>> >>>>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>>>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>>>> >>>>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else >>>>> to try at this point. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vince McClellan >>>>> >>>>> President >>>>> >>>>> NABCEP PV Professional >>>>> >>>>> p: 541-485-8122 >>>>> >>>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>>>> >>>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>>>> >>>>> CCB# 161672 >>>>> >>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>>>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iesbatteries at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 11:02:02 2026 From: iesbatteries at gmail.com (Daryl DeJoy) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 11:02:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jason, I did not, just checked all of my design work with SolArk engineers. I might suggest using half that amount of 60k's with a transformer to drop it down to 120/208. It simplifies layout and space considerations. The advantage of using the 60k's is that you can do much longer strings of PV, with an 800v max input voltage than with the 30k's 500v max voltage. Just thoughts. The majority of my SolArk installs are in the Caribbean. I have one commercial system with five 60k's and the only issue we had was with their high voltage batteries. We had some of the first off the line and they had temp sensor issues. They seem to have gotten that figured out, but they literally sent a tech down for a week to work with us. He changed out the sensors and ensure things were working properly. Since then we've just had to keep up with software upgrades and we've had a couple of the old dongles needed replacing, but the system is running an entire stone crushing plant and charging five electric forklifts, not off grid, but with essentially no electric bill to speak of. Daryl On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 10:46 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I Daryl, > > I have a project that might benefit from ten Sol-Ark 30K (max in > parallel). Did you work with a consulting engineer on your 60K projects? I > am looking for qualified engineers who can handle large systems like this. > > Best, > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 8:46 AM Daryl DeJoy via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We have over 130 Solark inverters installed, from 5k to multiples of >> 60k's and I have not seen that error at all. I have found their inverters >> to be reliable as long as their software updates are kept up to date. >> That's just my experience, though. >> >> Daryl DeJoy >> NABCEP Certified PVIP since 2006 >> Island Energy Storage >> >> On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 8:35 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Is this a common problem with Sol Ark inverters? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 12, 2026, at 5:40 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one >>> string at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> You might consider taking this one step further and physically >>>> disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times >>>> a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >>>>> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >>>>> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >>>>> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >>>>> unadulterated >>>>> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Wrenches >>>>>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>>>>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>>>>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>>>>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>>>>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>>>>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>>>>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>>>>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with >>>>>> MPPT 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no >>>>>> clouds, and no shade. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>>>>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>>>>> products. >>>>>> >>>>>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>>>>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>>>>> >>>>>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>>>>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>>>>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>>>>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else >>>>>> to try at this point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Vince McClellan >>>>>> >>>>>> President >>>>>> >>>>>> NABCEP PV Professional >>>>>> >>>>>> p: 541-485-8122 >>>>>> >>>>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>>>>> >>>>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>>>>> >>>>>> CCB# 161672 >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>>>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>>>>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>>> the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Apr 12 12:06:56 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 12:06:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm facing an issue with a utility interconnection that is probably going to require native 208 volt without a transformer. The utility company is requiring a power plant controller with onerous requirements. I'm going to have to get with Sol-Ark to see if their product can communicate via modbus with a power plant controller that does everything we need it to do. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 11:07 AM Daryl DeJoy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Jason, > I did not, just checked all of my design work with SolArk engineers. I > might suggest using half that amount of 60k's with a transformer to drop it > down to 120/208. It simplifies layout and space considerations. The > advantage of using the 60k's is that you can do much longer strings of PV, > with an 800v max input voltage than with the 30k's 500v max voltage. Just > thoughts. > The majority of my SolArk installs are in the Caribbean. I have one > commercial system with five 60k's and the only issue we had was with their > high voltage batteries. We had some of the first off the line and they had > temp sensor issues. They seem to have gotten that figured out, but they > literally sent a tech down for a week to work with us. He changed out the > sensors and ensure things were working properly. Since then we've just had > to keep up with software upgrades and we've had a couple of the old dongles > needed replacing, but the system is running an entire stone crushing plant > and charging five electric forklifts, not off grid, but with essentially no > electric bill to speak of. > > Daryl > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 10:46 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I Daryl, >> >> I have a project that might benefit from ten Sol-Ark 30K (max in >> parallel). Did you work with a consulting engineer on your 60K projects? I >> am looking for qualified engineers who can handle large systems like this. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 8:46 AM Daryl DeJoy via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> We have over 130 Solark inverters installed, from 5k to multiples of >>> 60k's and I have not seen that error at all. I have found their inverters >>> to be reliable as long as their software updates are kept up to date. >>> That's just my experience, though. >>> >>> Daryl DeJoy >>> NABCEP Certified PVIP since 2006 >>> Island Energy Storage >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 8:35 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Is this a common problem with Sol Ark inverters? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 12, 2026, at 5:40 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one >>>> string at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You might consider taking this one step further and physically >>>>> disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times >>>>> a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if >>>>>> each specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the >>>>>> MPPTs. Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take >>>>>> a different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >>>>>> unadulterated >>>>>> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Wrenches >>>>>>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P >>>>>>> randomly shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent >>>>>>> error? The errors are occurring when the system is well under the max >>>>>>> amperage per MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when >>>>>>> the online data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data >>>>>>> updates only every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike >>>>>>> that the online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the >>>>>>> same number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with >>>>>>> MPPT 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no >>>>>>> clouds, and no shade. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>>>>>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>>>>>> products. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>>>>>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>>>>>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>>>>>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but >>>>>>> they are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what >>>>>>> else to try at this point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vince McClellan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> President >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NABCEP PV Professional >>>>>>> >>>>>>> p: 541-485-8122 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CCB# 161672 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>>>>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>>>>>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>>> try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>>> the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Apr 12 12:16:22 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:16:22 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The ability to stop the generator when the sun comes out is one advantage of the AIO's over older equipment (at least the Midnite AIO can do that, not sure about others). That was always super annoying when people didn't have a large enough battery bank to make it till morning, and the generator would start at 5am, and fully recharge the batteries, leaving the solar with nothing to do when it did finally come out. I had one customer build his own PLC controller just to accomplish that on an outback system. I agree, having a quiet time that still starts the generator, just at a lower SOC, could be a good option. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Apr 12 12:24:55 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:24:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controllers resetting to default settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you Richard. That was my thought originally based on the behavior I was seeing, but I hadn't taken one apart to try to find the coin battery. And Outback tech support told me there was no such thing.... And regarding Ray's comment about the Mate3 -- as far as I know, yes, that's the only way to program the FM100. I do find it kind of ironic that people (myself included) hated buying an extra programming controller for inverters and charge controllers when Outback/schneider/magnum all went that way about 15 years ago. But then when Midnite Power introduces an inverter you program completely with a phone app instead of requiring you to buy a separate programmer, there is so much complaining that they are now introducing a separate programming controller for it. Zeke On Sat, Apr 11, 2026, 8:51?AM Richard Nicol via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Reviving an older topic with a new learning regarding FM100 resetting to > defaults after a shutdown event. > Memory is battery dependent rather than solid state. > There is a button cell battery (2032), on the circuit board attached to > the lid, with the leds on it. Three phillips screws hold it in place. > Apparently Outback knows they have had batches of these batteries. > [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg] > Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 12:43:24 2026 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:43:24 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches, I think Victron offers a great model for integrating an effective autostart logic, more geared toward an off-grid system of course. They have many, many options and you can use the quiet time to segment how you want it to behave during specific time periods. An example would be using quiet time in the hours before dawn to start the generator at a lower State of Charge (SOC) and also stop at a lower SOC before the sun comes up. Another nice feature is a DC current start trigger and an AC current start trigger. You could use this to base the start on actual battery load, not just inverter load, so if solar provides sufficient current, the generator won't necessarily trigger.to run. Here is a screenshot of some of the triggers available: [image: image.png] On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 10:22 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The ability to stop the generator when the sun comes out is one advantage > of the AIO's over older equipment (at least the Midnite AIO can do that, > not sure about others). That was always super annoying when people didn't > have a large enough battery bank to make it till morning, and the generator > would start at 5am, and fully recharge the batteries, leaving the solar > with nothing to do when it did finally come out. I had one customer build > his own PLC controller just to accomplish that on an outback system. > > I agree, having a quiet time that still starts the generator, just at a > lower SOC, could be a good option. > > Zeke > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 117178 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lou at spreesolarsystems.com Sun Apr 12 13:14:14 2026 From: lou at spreesolarsystems.com (Lou Russo) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 07:14:14 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> References: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Vince and Wrenches, We also recently encountered this F20 error on a relatively new off-grid system and are still working through it. The system will go weeks without doing it, then do it twice in a day. The system consists of: 1 Sol-Ark 15kW 30kWh Discover Rackmount with Lynk2 28 REC430AA Pure 2 modules 28 AP Smart RSD-S-PLC 1 TRANSMITTER-PLC with 2 cores Firmware: Sol-Ark MCU 7.2.2.8 Comms 1.4.5 Rackmount - 4.11.1 Lynk2 - 2.6.0 Smartload is utilized and it is charging an EV at 22A. The F20 occurs whether the Smartload is activated or not. Similar to you, Sol-Ark blamed the AP Smart RSDs hence the dual cores and odd (almost impossible) current spikes up to 22.7A logged on the Solarkcloud. We will keep you posted if we find a solution but all signs point to a inverter replacement. Too odd and too intermittent to be anything else in my opinion. Lou Russo Owner lou at spreesolarsystems.com Office - 808 345 6762 Direct Line - 808 731 1907 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 2:36 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Is this a common problem with Sol Ark inverters? > > > > On Apr 12, 2026, at 5:40 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one string > at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. > > > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> You might consider taking this one step further and physically >> disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times >> a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >>> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >>> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >>> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >>> unadulterated >>> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Wrenches >>>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>>> >>>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT >>>> 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >>>> no shade. >>>> >>>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>>> products. >>>> >>>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>>> >>>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>>> >>>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>>> >>>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else >>>> to try at this point. >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> >>>> Vince McClellan >>>> >>>> President >>>> >>>> NABCEP PV Professional >>>> >>>> p: 541-485-8122 >>>> >>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>>> >>>> >>>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>>> >>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>>> >>>> CCB# 161672 >>>> >>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 13:24:56 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 10:24:56 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's worth keeping in mind this same error can also be on the battery side of the DC bus and can be caused by AC loads and current settings... Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC CCB #204937 LRT #076 541-787-1366 tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 10:15 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Vince and Wrenches, > > We also recently encountered this F20 error on a relatively new off-grid > system and are still working through it. The system will go weeks without > doing it, then do it twice in a day. > > The system consists of: > 1 Sol-Ark 15kW > 30kWh Discover Rackmount with Lynk2 > 28 REC430AA Pure 2 modules > 28 AP Smart RSD-S-PLC > 1 TRANSMITTER-PLC with 2 cores > > Firmware: > Sol-Ark MCU 7.2.2.8 Comms 1.4.5 > Rackmount - 4.11.1 > Lynk2 - 2.6.0 > > Smartload is utilized and it is charging an EV at 22A. The F20 occurs > whether the Smartload is activated or not. > > Similar to you, Sol-Ark blamed the AP Smart RSDs hence the dual cores and > odd (almost impossible) current spikes up to 22.7A logged on the > Solarkcloud. > > We will keep you posted if we find a solution but all signs point to a > inverter replacement. Too odd and too intermittent to be anything else in > my opinion. > > Lou Russo > Owner > lou at spreesolarsystems.com > Office - 808 345 6762 > Direct Line - 808 731 1907 > Spree Solar Systems LLC > CT-34322 > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 2:36 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Is this a common problem with Sol Ark inverters? >> >> >> >> On Apr 12, 2026, at 5:40 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one string >> at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> You might consider taking this one step further and physically >>> disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times >>> a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >>>> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >>>> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >>>> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >>>> unadulterated >>>> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Wrenches >>>>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>>>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>>>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>>>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>>>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>>>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>>>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>>>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>>>> >>>>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT >>>>> 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and >>>>> no shade. >>>>> >>>>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>>>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>>>> products. >>>>> >>>>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>>>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>>>> >>>>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>>>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>>>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>>>> >>>>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>>>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>>>> >>>>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else >>>>> to try at this point. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vince McClellan >>>>> >>>>> President >>>>> >>>>> NABCEP PV Professional >>>>> >>>>> p: 541-485-8122 >>>>> >>>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>>>> >>>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>>>> >>>>> CCB# 161672 >>>>> >>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>>>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sun Apr 12 14:22:56 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 12:22:56 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50617eb3-dac5-4068-8356-7b5b88591653@solarray.com> Another thing to consider is that factory recommended settings are fully charging the battery, when off grid you really only want the generator to bring the battery up to 70 or 80% and then allow the sun to do the rest.  I've recently been raising the start voltages so that the batteries don't get down into the harder to predict < 20% SOC range, but then also lowering the shutoff voltages, so that the generator doesn't run so long.  Running a generator for that topping off phase is wasteful, and just not necessary anymore with LiPo4. Finding the best voltage settings with LiPO4, is tricky, since they have more stable voltage for most of their range.  However, spending the time to dial in a system can significantly reduce gen run time, which helps everybody. Ray Walters remote Solar On 4/12/2026 10:43 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: > Wrenches, > > I think Victron offers a great model for integrating an effective > autostart logic, more geared toward an off-grid system of course.  > They have many, many options and you can use the quiet time to segment > how you want it to behave during specific time periods.  An > example would be using quiet time in the hours before dawn to start > the generator at a lower State of Charge (SOC) and also stop at a > lower SOC before the sun comes up.  Another nice feature is a DC > current start trigger and an AC current start trigger.  You could use > this to base the start on actual battery load, not just inverter load, > so if solar provides sufficient current, the generator won't > necessarily trigger.to run. > > Here is a screenshot of some of the triggers available: > > image.png > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 10:22 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > The ability to stop the generator when the sun comes out is one > advantage of the AIO's over older equipment (at least the Midnite > AIO can do that, not sure about others).  That was always super > annoying when people didn't have a large enough battery bank to > make it till morning, and the generator would start at 5am, and > fully recharge the batteries, leaving the solar with nothing to do > when it did finally come out.  I had one customer build his own > PLC controller just to accomplish that on an outback system. > > I agree, having a quiet time that still starts the generator, just > at a lower SOC, could be a good option. > > Zeke > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > * > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 117178 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Apr 12 14:31:26 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 14:31:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: <50617eb3-dac5-4068-8356-7b5b88591653@solarray.com> References: <50617eb3-dac5-4068-8356-7b5b88591653@solarray.com> Message-ID: Absolutely. This is needed. You can do it with Sol-Ark's TOU settings, but it is so convoluted and confusing. We typically want the generator to start at 20% SOC when closed-loop comms are available and stop at 40%. It can do that multiple times overnight if needed. If the generator starts just before sunrise, there is no reason to keep it running. Just get me to daylight! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 2:27 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Another thing to consider is that factory recommended settings are fully > charging the battery, when off grid you really only want the generator to > bring the battery up to 70 or 80% and then allow the sun to do the rest. > I've recently been raising the start voltages so that the batteries don't > get down into the harder to predict < 20% SOC range, but then also lowering > the shutoff voltages, so that the generator doesn't run so long. Running a > generator for that topping off phase is wasteful, and just not necessary > anymore with LiPo4. > > Finding the best voltage settings with LiPO4, is tricky, since they have > more stable voltage for most of their range. However, spending the time to > dial in a system can significantly reduce gen run time, which helps > everybody. > > Ray Walters > remote Solar > > > On 4/12/2026 10:43 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Wrenches, > > I think Victron offers a great model for integrating an effective > autostart logic, more geared toward an off-grid system of course. They > have many, many options and you can use the quiet time to segment how you > want it to behave during specific time periods. An example would be using > quiet time in the hours before dawn to start the generator at a lower State > of Charge (SOC) and also stop at a lower SOC before the sun comes up. > Another nice feature is a DC current start trigger and an AC current start > trigger. You could use this to base the start on actual battery load, not > just inverter load, so if solar provides sufficient current, the generator > won't necessarily trigger.to run. > > Here is a screenshot of some of the triggers available: > > [image: image.png] > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 10:22 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> The ability to stop the generator when the sun comes out is one advantage >> of the AIO's over older equipment (at least the Midnite AIO can do that, >> not sure about others). That was always super annoying when people didn't >> have a large enough battery bank to make it till morning, and the generator >> would start at 5am, and fully recharge the batteries, leaving the solar >> with nothing to do when it did finally come out. I had one customer build >> his own PLC controller just to accomplish that on an outback system. >> >> I agree, having a quiet time that still starts the generator, just at a >> lower SOC, could be a good option. >> >> Zeke >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates * > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 117178 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun Apr 12 17:18:50 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 15:18:50 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I used to be a firm believer in only operating lithium batteries in open loop, because trying to do closed loop with most requipment was such a disaster of communications tinkering at best. I would still try to operate the AGS with SOC based controls as much as possible, but still have a voltage catch in case the SOC drifted off from reality. Outback would let you have both at the same time. But still no comms with the batteries. But, if you can have the batteries and inverter from the same manufacturer, which is more and more possible, so you know closed loop communications are going to work, that is much nicer than trying to determine voltage based start and stop points on a lithium battery. So I'm coming around to using closed loop communications since starting using matched equipment. I get not taking the SOC all the way to 100% with the generator to leave some room for solar. But I think it depends on your climate. If you have some winter sun and can still get to 100% regularly, I think that can make sense. But if you have no winter sun (like where I am now -- typical PSH well under 1 for Dec and Jan -- I've measured as low as 0.25PSH for the month before -- then I am still a believer in getting the batteries to 100% regularly (once every week or two), even if that takes a generator. Otherwise the SOC indicated by the BMS can drift from reality. Some BMS's will recalibrate their SOC if they get a voltage reading at rest at an SOC lower than 100%, but many BMS's will only recalibrate the SOC calculation when they reach 100% (same as ah counting SOC meters that have to reach 100% to recalibrate/reset). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Apr 12 17:28:40 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 17:28:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The issue I have with open loop and LFP when off-grid is that you have to set the AGS start voltage pretty high on sites where there is sometimes a large load relative to battery capacity. The voltage curve drops off too fast around 20% to start the generator sometimes before the BMS shuts down. You can't use the full capacity of the battery because you're faced with starting the generator at higher than necessary voltages. That takes away one of the huge advantages of LFP over lead-acid: more usable capacity. That said, I have sites with huge batteries and low loads that work great with open loop because the batteries rarely approach deep discharge, and when they do, there is enough time to "catch" the steep part of the curve. In a perfect world, everyone would play nice and agree on communication standards, or at least just let the dang inverter read the SOC and that's it. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 5:21 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I used to be a firm believer in only operating lithium batteries in open > loop, because trying to do closed loop with most requipment was such a > disaster of communications tinkering at best. I would still try to operate > the AGS with SOC based controls as much as possible, but still have a > voltage catch in case the SOC drifted off from reality. Outback would let > you have both at the same time. But still no comms with the batteries. > > But, if you can have the batteries and inverter from the same > manufacturer, which is more and more possible, so you know closed loop > communications are going to work, that is much nicer than trying to > determine voltage based start and stop points on a lithium battery. So > I'm coming around to using closed loop communications since starting using > matched equipment. > > I get not taking the SOC all the way to 100% with the generator to leave > some room for solar. But I think it depends on your climate. If you > have some winter sun and can still get to 100% regularly, I think that can > make sense. But if you have no winter sun (like where I am now -- typical > PSH well under 1 for Dec and Jan -- I've measured as low as 0.25PSH for the > month before -- then I am still a believer in getting the batteries to > 100% regularly (once every week or two), even if that takes a generator. > Otherwise the SOC indicated by the BMS can drift from reality. Some BMS's > will recalibrate their SOC if they get a voltage reading at rest at an SOC > lower than 100%, but many BMS's will only recalibrate the SOC calculation > when they reach 100% (same as ah counting SOC meters that have to reach > 100% to recalibrate/reset). > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Sun Apr 12 17:59:52 2026 From: frenergy at psln.com (Bill P. Battagin) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 17:59:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2034675708.54038845.1776031192634.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Jason, I couldn't agree with you more about over-sizing the battery when Off-grid and open loop. In my opinion this is THE solution. Yes there's the extra cost of the greater capacity battery however it solves the generator angst issue (both customer and installer). There is the added upfront cost of the battery, maybe 30-35%? but over time much of that cost will be recovered from lower genny fuel consumption, repairs and maintenance, plus i'm guessing the L-ion pack will last longer if its not worked as hard and discharged as deeply. Obviously its a plus to also have the benefit of more power autonomy it the sun ain't shining. Overall in the long run, maybe it does come out a little more expensive, but its a better more reliable system with less problems. We're more worried about the gas in the generator going bad due to lack of use than BMS shutdown. Is bad gas angst a thing? Taylorsville Bill's $.02 worth, Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, owner 4291 Nelson St. (Freight) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA  95983 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) CA. C10 Lic # 874049 Solar Powered since 1982 From: "Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches" To: "RE-wrenches" Cc: "Jason Szumlanski" , "Zeke Yewdall" Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2026 2:28:40 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time The issue I have with open loop and LFP when off-grid is that you have to set the AGS start voltage pretty high on sites where there is sometimes a large load relative to battery capacity. The voltage curve drops off too fast around 20% to start the generator sometimes before the BMS shuts down. You can't use the full capacity of the battery because you're faced with starting the generator at higher than necessary voltages. That takes away one of the huge advantages of LFP over lead-acid: more usable capacity. That said, I have sites with huge batteries and low loads that work great with open loop because the batteries rarely approach deep discharge, and when they do, there is enough time to "catch" the steep part of the curve. In a perfect world, everyone would play nice and agree on communication standards, or at least just let the dang inverter read the SOC and that's it. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 5:21 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < [ mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org | re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ] > wrote: I used to be a firm believer in only operating lithium batteries in open loop, because trying to do closed loop with most requipment was such a disaster of communications tinkering at best. I would still try to operate the AGS with SOC based controls as much as possible, but still have a voltage catch in case the SOC drifted off from reality. Outback would let you have both at the same time. But still no comms with the batteries. But, if you can have the batteries and inverter from the same manufacturer, which is more and more possible, so you know closed loop communications are going to work, that is much nicer than trying to determine voltage based start and stop points on a lithium battery. So I'm coming around to using closed loop communications since starting using matched equipment. I get not taking the SOC all the way to 100% with the generator to leave some room for solar. But I think it depends on your climate. If you have some winter sun and can still get to 100% regularly, I think that can make sense. But if you have no winter sun (like where I am now -- typical PSH well under 1 for Dec and Jan -- I've measured as low as 0.25PSH for the month before -- then I am still a believer in getting the batteries to 100% regularly (once every week or two), even if that takes a generator. Otherwise the SOC indicated by the BMS can drift from reality. Some BMS's will recalibrate their SOC if they get a voltage reading at rest at an SOC lower than 100%, but many BMS's will only recalibrate the SOC calculation when they reach 100% (same as ah counting SOC meters that have to reach 100% to recalibrate/reset). _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: [ http://re-wrenches.org/ | http://re-wrenches.org ] List Address: [ mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org | RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ] Change listserver email address & settings: [ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org | http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ] There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: [ https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ | https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ ] [ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org | http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ] List rules & etiquette: [ http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm | http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm ] Check out or update participant bios: [ http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ | http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Apr 12 18:14:26 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 18:14:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: <2034675708.54038845.1776031192634.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> References: <2034675708.54038845.1776031192634.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Message-ID: Yep, totally agree. However, then you start facing the issue of SOC drift if you can't get them up to 100% regularly. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Right-sizing all components is hard while staying within reasonable budgets. I guess that's why we get paid the big bucks. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 6:03 PM Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jason, > > I couldn't agree with you more about over-sizing the > battery when Off-grid and open loop. In my opinion this is THE solution. > Yes there's the extra cost of the greater capacity battery however it > solves the generator angst issue (both customer and installer). There is > the added upfront cost of the battery, maybe 30-35%? but over time much of > that cost will be recovered from lower genny fuel consumption, repairs and > maintenance, plus i'm guessing the L-ion pack will last longer if its not > worked as hard and discharged as deeply. Obviously its a plus to also have > the benefit of more power autonomy it the sun ain't shining. > > Overall in the long run, maybe it does come out a little > more expensive, but its a better more reliable system with less problems. > We're more worried about the gas in the generator going bad due to lack of > use than BMS shutdown. Is bad gas angst a thing? > > Taylorsville Bill's $.02 worth, > > *Feather River Solar Electric* > > *Bill Battagin, owner* > > *4291 Nelson St. (Freight)* > > *5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)* > > *Taylorsville, CA 95983* > > *530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)* > > *CA. C10 Lic # 874049**Solar Powered since 1982* > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches" < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> > *To: *"RE-wrenches" > *Cc: *"Jason Szumlanski" , "Zeke > Yewdall" > *Sent: *Sunday, April 12, 2026 2:28:40 PM > *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time > > The issue I have with open loop and LFP when off-grid is that you have to > set the AGS start voltage pretty high on sites where there is sometimes a > large load relative to battery capacity. The voltage curve drops off too > fast around 20% to start the generator sometimes before the BMS shuts > down. You can't use the full capacity of the battery because you're faced > with starting the generator at higher than necessary voltages. That takes > away one of the huge advantages of LFP over lead-acid: more usable capacity. > > That said, I have sites with huge batteries and low loads that work great > with open loop because the batteries rarely approach deep discharge, and > when they do, there is enough time to "catch" the steep part of the curve. > > In a perfect world, everyone would play nice and agree on communication > standards, or at least just let the dang inverter read the SOC and that's > it. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 5:21 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I used to be a firm believer in only operating lithium batteries in open >> loop, because trying to do closed loop with most requipment was such a >> disaster of communications tinkering at best. I would still try to operate >> the AGS with SOC based controls as much as possible, but still have a >> voltage catch in case the SOC drifted off from reality. Outback would let >> you have both at the same time. But still no comms with the batteries. >> >> But, if you can have the batteries and inverter from the same >> manufacturer, which is more and more possible, so you know closed loop >> communications are going to work, that is much nicer than trying to >> determine voltage based start and stop points on a lithium battery. So >> I'm coming around to using closed loop communications since starting using >> matched equipment. >> >> I get not taking the SOC all the way to 100% with the generator to leave >> some room for solar. But I think it depends on your climate. If you >> have some winter sun and can still get to 100% regularly, I think that can >> make sense. But if you have no winter sun (like where I am now -- typical >> PSH well under 1 for Dec and Jan -- I've measured as low as 0.25PSH for the >> month before -- then I am still a believer in getting the batteries to >> 100% regularly (once every week or two), even if that takes a generator. >> Otherwise the SOC indicated by the BMS can drift from reality. Some BMS's >> will recalibrate their SOC if they get a voltage reading at rest at an SOC >> lower than 100%, but many BMS's will only recalibrate the SOC calculation >> when they reach 100% (same as ah counting SOC meters that have to reach >> 100% to recalibrate/reset). >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Mon Apr 13 00:35:57 2026 From: frenergy at psln.com (Bill Battagin) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2026 21:35:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: <2034675708.54038845.1776031192634.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Message-ID: Seems kinda funny that the EV manus can pretty well nail the SOC of their battery packs for reliable readout of range left and percent of charge (SOC).  We've been driving EVs (3 varieties) for 8 years now and this has been our experience. This now being done with LiFePO4 batteries in EVs and it's not very often that an EV battery get charged up to 100%.             Unless I'm missing something it seems our industry-wide SOC monitoring is not as sophisticated, until it is we're using voltage, with its limitations, for AGS. Is it just a matter of having the best coulomb counter?...uh oh, now I'm drifting out of my field.             I would love to see more webinars from our manufacturers that get more into the weeds about the guts about how LiFePO4 batteries with their BMS's interact with our systems especially off-grid, our main market. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, owner 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) CA. C10 Lic # 874049 Solar Powered since 1982 Home of the Sunny Side Up On 4/12/2026 3:14 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: > Yep, totally agree. However, then you start facing the issue of SOC > drift if you can't get them up to 100% regularly. > > Damned if you do, damned if you don't. > > Right-sizing all components is hard while staying within reasonable > budgets. I guess that's why we get paid the big bucks. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 6:03 PM Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Jason, > >                 I couldn't agree with you more about over-sizing > the battery when Off-grid and open loop.  In my opinion this is > THE solution.  Yes there's the extra cost of the greater capacity > battery however it solves the generator angst issue (both customer > and installer).  There is the added upfront cost of the battery, > maybe 30-35%? but over time much of that cost will be recovered > from lower genny fuel consumption, repairs and maintenance, plus > i'm guessing the L-ion pack will last longer if its not worked as > hard and discharged as deeply.  Obviously its a plus to also have > the benefit of more power autonomy it the sun ain't shining. > >                Overall in the long run, maybe it does come out a > little more expensive, but its a better more reliable system with > less problems.  We're more worried about the gas in the generator > going bad due to lack of use than BMS shutdown. Is bad gas angst a > thing? > > Taylorsville Bill's  $.02 worth, > > *Feather River Solar Electric* > > *Bill Battagin, owner* > > *4291 Nelson St. (Freight)* > > *5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)* > > *Taylorsville, CA  95983* > > *530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)**CA. C10 Lic # 874049 **Solar Powered since 1982* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From: *"Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches" > > *To: *"RE-wrenches" > *Cc: *"Jason Szumlanski" , > "Zeke Yewdall" > *Sent: *Sunday, April 12, 2026 2:28:40 PM > *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time > > The issue I have with open loop and LFP when off-grid is that you > have to set the AGS start voltage pretty high on sites where there > is sometimes a large load relative to battery capacity. The > voltage curve drops off too fast around 20% to start the generator > sometimes before the BMS shuts down. You can't use the full > capacity of the battery because you're faced with starting the > generator at higher than necessary voltages. That takes away one > of the huge advantages of LFP over lead-acid: more usable capacity. > > That said, I have sites with huge batteries and low loads that > work great with open loop because the batteries rarely approach > deep discharge, and when they do, there is enough time to "catch" > the steep part of the curve. > > In a perfect world, everyone would play nice and agree on > communication standards, or at least just let the dang inverter > read the SOC and that's it. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 5:21 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > I used to be a firm believer in only operating lithium > batteries in open loop, because trying to do closed loop with > most requipment was such a disaster of communications > tinkering at best.  I would still try to operate the AGS with > SOC based controls as much as possible, but still have a > voltage catch in case the SOC drifted off from reality.  > Outback would let you have both at the same time.  But still > no comms with the batteries. > > But, if you can have the batteries and inverter from the same > manufacturer, which is more and more possible, so you know > closed loop communications are going to work, that is much > nicer than trying to determine voltage based start and stop > points on a lithium battery.   So I'm coming around to using > closed loop communications since starting using matched equipment. > > I get not taking the SOC all the way to 100% with the > generator to leave some room for solar.  But I think it > depends on your climate. If you have some winter sun and can > still get to 100% regularly, I think that can make sense. But > if you have no winter sun (like where I am now -- typical PSH > well under 1 for Dec and Jan -- I've measured as low as > 0.25PSH for the month before --  then I am still a believer in > getting the batteries to 100% regularly (once every week or > two), even if that takes a generator. Otherwise the SOC > indicated by the BMS can drift from reality.  Some BMS's will > recalibrate their SOC if they get a voltage reading at rest at > an SOC lower than 100%, but many BMS's will only recalibrate > the SOC calculation when they reach 100% (same as ah counting > SOC meters that have to reach 100% to recalibrate/reset). > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Apr 13 05:01:55 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 05:01:55 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: <2034675708.54038845.1776031192634.JavaMail.zimbra@psln.com> Message-ID: Could it be that the EV SOC is somewhat faked by the manufacturers because they know the mass market will not stand for "SOC drift" as an excuse? My wife had a Saab in the 2000s that would go to "0 miles remaining" but still keep running for over 50 miles. Ask me how I know. :) Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 12:36 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Seems kinda funny that the EV manus can pretty well nail the SOC of their > battery packs for reliable readout of range left and percent of charge > (SOC). We've been driving EVs (3 varieties) for 8 years now and this has > been our experience. This now being done with LiFePO4 batteries in EVs and > it's not very often that an EV battery get charged up to 100%. > > Unless I'm missing something it seems our industry-wide SOC > monitoring is not as sophisticated, until it is we're using voltage, with > its limitations, for AGS. Is it just a matter of having the best coulomb counter?...uh > oh, now I'm drifting out of my field. > > I would love to see more webinars from our manufacturers that > get more into the weeds about the guts about how LiFePO4 batteries with > their BMS's interact with our systems especially off-grid, our main market. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, owner > 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping) > 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) > CA. C10 Lic # 874049 > Solar Powered since 1982 > Home of the Sunny Side Up > > > On 4/12/2026 3:14 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: > > Yep, totally agree. However, then you start facing the issue of SOC drift > if you can't get them up to 100% regularly. > > Damned if you do, damned if you don't. > > Right-sizing all components is hard while staying within reasonable > budgets. I guess that's why we get paid the big bucks. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 6:03 PM Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Jason, >> >> I couldn't agree with you more about over-sizing the >> battery when Off-grid and open loop. In my opinion this is THE solution. >> Yes there's the extra cost of the greater capacity battery however it >> solves the generator angst issue (both customer and installer). There is >> the added upfront cost of the battery, maybe 30-35%? but over time much of >> that cost will be recovered from lower genny fuel consumption, repairs and >> maintenance, plus i'm guessing the L-ion pack will last longer if its not >> worked as hard and discharged as deeply. Obviously its a plus to also have >> the benefit of more power autonomy it the sun ain't shining. >> >> Overall in the long run, maybe it does come out a little >> more expensive, but its a better more reliable system with less problems. >> We're more worried about the gas in the generator going bad due to lack of >> use than BMS shutdown. Is bad gas angst a thing? >> >> Taylorsville Bill's $.02 worth, >> >> *Feather River Solar Electric* >> >> *Bill Battagin, owner* >> >> *4291 Nelson St. (Freight)* >> >> *5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)* >> >> *Taylorsville, CA 95983* >> >> *530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)**CA. >> C10 Lic # 874049 >> **Solar Powered since 1982* >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches" < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *To: *"RE-wrenches" >> *Cc: *"Jason Szumlanski" , "Zeke >> Yewdall" >> *Sent: *Sunday, April 12, 2026 2:28:40 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time >> >> The issue I have with open loop and LFP when off-grid is that you have to >> set the AGS start voltage pretty high on sites where there is sometimes >> a large load relative to battery capacity. The voltage curve drops off >> too fast around 20% to start the generator sometimes before the BMS shuts >> down. You can't use the full capacity of the battery because you're >> faced with starting the generator at higher than necessary voltages. >> That takes away one of the huge advantages of LFP over lead-acid: more >> usable capacity. >> >> That said, I have sites with huge batteries and low loads that work great >> with open loop because the batteries rarely approach deep discharge, and >> when they do, there is enough time to "catch" the steep part of the curve. >> >> In a perfect world, everyone would play nice and agree on communication >> standards, or at least just let the dang inverter read the SOC and that's >> it. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 5:21 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I used to be a firm believer in only operating lithium batteries in open >>> loop, because trying to do closed loop with most requipment was such a >>> disaster of communications tinkering at best. I would still try to operate >>> the AGS with SOC based controls as much as possible, but still have a >>> voltage catch in case the SOC drifted off from reality. Outback would let >>> you have both at the same time. But still no comms with the batteries. >>> >>> But, if you can have the batteries and inverter from the same >>> manufacturer, which is more and more possible, so you know closed loop >>> communications are going to work, that is much nicer than trying to >>> determine voltage based start and stop points on a lithium battery. So >>> I'm coming around to using closed loop communications since starting using >>> matched equipment. >>> >>> I get not taking the SOC all the way to 100% with the generator to leave >>> some room for solar. But I think it depends on your climate. If you >>> have some winter sun and can still get to 100% regularly, I think that can >>> make sense. But if you have no winter sun (like where I am now -- typical >>> PSH well under 1 for Dec and Jan -- I've measured as low as 0.25PSH for the >>> month before -- then I am still a believer in getting the batteries to >>> 100% regularly (once every week or two), even if that takes a generator. >>> Otherwise the SOC indicated by the BMS can drift from reality. Some BMS's >>> will recalibrate their SOC if they get a voltage reading at rest at an SOC >>> lower than 100%, but many BMS's will only recalibrate the SOC calculation >>> when they reach 100% (same as ah counting SOC meters that have to reach >>> 100% to recalibrate/reset). >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > > Virus-free.www.avast.com > > <#m_-7272947035172703228_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Apr 13 10:53:49 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 07:53:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: <8A673F78-3297-4C38-8FF6-9609130488CA@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have found that Outback equipment would often give incorrect but related error codes. For example: A high AC draw would cause the battery voltage to drop. A low DC voltage would be reported, not the primary cause of high AC current. I think it has to do with how often the sampling happens. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 10:32 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > It's worth keeping in mind this same error can also be on the battery side > of the DC bus and can be caused by AC loads and current settings... > > Tyrone Houck > Oregon Solarworks LLC > CCB #204937 LRT #076 > 541-787-1366 > tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com > > > > On Sun, Apr 12, 2026, 10:15 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Vince and Wrenches, >> >> We also recently encountered this F20 error on a relatively new off-grid >> system and are still working through it. The system will go weeks without >> doing it, then do it twice in a day. >> >> The system consists of: >> 1 Sol-Ark 15kW >> 30kWh Discover Rackmount with Lynk2 >> 28 REC430AA Pure 2 modules >> 28 AP Smart RSD-S-PLC >> 1 TRANSMITTER-PLC with 2 cores >> >> Firmware: >> Sol-Ark MCU 7.2.2.8 Comms 1.4.5 >> Rackmount - 4.11.1 >> Lynk2 - 2.6.0 >> >> Smartload is utilized and it is charging an EV at 22A. The F20 occurs >> whether the Smartload is activated or not. >> >> Similar to you, Sol-Ark blamed the AP Smart RSDs hence the dual cores and >> odd (almost impossible) current spikes up to 22.7A logged on the >> Solarkcloud. >> >> We will keep you posted if we find a solution but all signs point to a >> inverter replacement. Too odd and too intermittent to be anything else in >> my opinion. >> >> Lou Russo >> Owner >> lou at spreesolarsystems.com >> Office - 808 345 6762 >> Direct Line - 808 731 1907 >> Spree Solar Systems LLC >> CT-34322 >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 2:36 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Is this a common problem with Sol Ark inverters? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 12, 2026, at 5:40 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> In a similar vein of thought, it may be helpful to only engage one >>> string at a time to hopefully isolate error codes. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 8:36 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> You might consider taking this one step further and physically >>>> disconnecting one string at a time. Since the error happens multiple times >>>> a day, maybe you can isolate the issue to one string. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 7:56 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> i would swap which strings go into the different MPPT's to see if each >>>>> specific problem follows the DC string // or do they follow the MPPTs. >>>>> Another option is kinda a lot of work but might be worth it - take a >>>>> different inverter out there and "bench test" it with those strings >>>>> unadulterated >>>>> Good luck and please let us how this one resolves. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 4:05 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Wrenches >>>>>> Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly >>>>>> shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The >>>>>> errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per >>>>>> MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online >>>>>> data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only >>>>>> every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the >>>>>> online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same >>>>>> number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with >>>>>> MPPT 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no >>>>>> clouds, and no shade. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD >>>>>> switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo >>>>>> products. >>>>>> >>>>>> We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of >>>>>> cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. >>>>>> >>>>>> We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every >>>>>> possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no >>>>>> mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they >>>>>> are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else >>>>>> to try at this point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Vince McClellan >>>>>> >>>>>> President >>>>>> >>>>>> NABCEP PV Professional >>>>>> >>>>>> p: 541-485-8122 >>>>>> >>>>>> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com >>>>>> >>>>>> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com >>>>>> >>>>>> CCB# 161672 >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, >>>>>> please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment >>>>>> of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>>> the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Apr 13 11:28:52 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 09:28:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D1867FE-4C6E-4CA5-86EE-43DCF44305F3@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Apr 13 13:24:52 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 17:24:52 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG ESS phones and email not working... Message-ID: Anybody have any luck getting a hold of LG ESS? We have two Resu 9.8 that need replacement but calls and emails don't go thru and the email is even listed as "undeliverable." Anybody have good contact info or further info on LG ESS? Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:ae70351e-f7ba-4016-b3ab-ef04da8eccde] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-ohsvmwxu.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-ohsvmwxu.png URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Mon Apr 13 13:39:03 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 10:39:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to clarify on the issue of open vs closed loop, when I talk about open loop lithium battery operation with older equipment, I am not meaning to do voltage based AGS control. I would still do SOC based control for this -- with an SOC meter that the AGS can read, like an FNDC, Magnum BMK, Victron smartshunt, or whatever the Schneider one is currently called. Trying to do voltage based control on lithium batteries I find to be very difficult, as many people have mentioned. Yes, SOC drift of your AH counting SOC meter is an issue here... which is why having a voltage catch like you could do with outback was nice -- start the generator at 30% SOC, but also catch it at 50 volts if the SOC reading go out of wack with reality. On the issue of SOC for EV's... I am not sure that they do a better job, so much as they pretend to. Car makers learned long ago to dumb down even the actual gauges on cars, so people would not ask questions. Ford oil pressure gauges for one example...starting in the late 70's, it was a guage on the dash, but driven by a pressure switch, so it always stayed the same, so people wouldn't ask why it was going up and down with temperature and rpm... Sometimes the less you know, the happier you are. I just installed individual detailed string monitoring on 6 indentical strings of PV, and they vary by several percent at times during the day, and you can also see two different MPPTs from different manufacturers behaving differently at times. -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Mon Apr 13 17:29:42 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 17:29:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG ESS phones and email not working... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001e01dccb8c$a592bef0$f0b83cd0$@mindspring.com> Scott Please try these #'s 888 375 8044 916 573 0517 Monica Thx peter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, April 13, 2026 1:25 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: scot.arey at solarcentex.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG ESS phones and email not working... Anybody have any luck getting a hold of LG ESS? We have two Resu 9.8 that need replacement but calls and emails don't go thru and the email is even listed as "undeliverable." Anybody have good contact info or further info on LG ESS? Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tom.mccalmont at pairedpower.com Mon Apr 13 17:51:31 2026 From: tom.mccalmont at pairedpower.com (Tom McCalmont) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 14:51:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG ESS phones and email not working... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had the same difficulty. I eventually got through to Linh Tran on her mobile at 415-715-4673 or at ltran at lgchem.com. Not sure those are still valid. Hope that helps, Tom McCalmont On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 10:27 AM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Anybody have any luck getting a hold of LG ESS? > > We have two Resu 9.8 that need replacement but calls and emails don't go > thru and the email is even listed as "undeliverable." > > Anybody have good contact info or further info on LG ESS? > > *Howard "Scot" Arey* > *Owner, Solar CenTex* > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > TECL 29755 > 254-300-1228 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-ohsvmwxu.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Apr 13 17:59:01 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2026 17:59:01 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG ESS phones and email not working... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Richard Dean (formerly from Ameresco) was supporting at least the Home 8 LG ESS. He might be able to help, although I think the Home 8 and LG Chem were totally different areas of LG. 805-342-3520. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 5:54 PM Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I had the same difficulty. I eventually got through to Linh Tran on her > mobile at 415-715-4673 or at ltran at lgchem.com. Not sure those are still > valid. > > Hope that helps, > Tom McCalmont > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 10:27 AM scot.arey--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Anybody have any luck getting a hold of LG ESS? >> >> We have two Resu 9.8 that need replacement but calls and emails don't go >> thru and the email is even listed as "undeliverable." >> >> Anybody have good contact info or further info on LG ESS? >> >> *Howard "Scot" Arey* >> *Owner, Solar CenTex* >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> TECL 29755 >> 254-300-1228 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-ohsvmwxu.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: not available URL: From palumbo131m at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 11:19:56 2026 From: palumbo131m at gmail.com (palumbo131m at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 11:19:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?Scraping_old_Trace_SW=E2=80=99s?= Message-ID: Asking for advice on scraping two old SW’s (one is SN 0049). Is it worth my time and energy to take them apart to separate the transformer out for higher return at the metal recycling place? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_1904.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2333396 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From william at millersolar.com Tue Apr 14 11:40:50 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 08:40:50 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?Scraping_old_Trace_SW=E2=80=99s?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’d offer them on e-bay. Apparently the Amish find them desirable and may be able to repair them or use parts from an inoperative unit. If you get the cost of shipping and crating it costs you nothing but the effort to list and keeps them out of the waste stream. I keep a display on the shelf if the buttons work. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 8:27 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Asking for advice on scraping two old SW’s (one is SN 0049). Is it worth > my time and energy to take them apart to separate the transformer out for > higher return at the metal recycling place? > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 11:41:53 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 09:41:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?Scraping_old_Trace_SW=E2=80=99s?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0124D21E-3209-4165-95BB-967D27837F34@gmail.com> Depends. Where I live the local metal scrap yard pays very differently for Steel Copper Electronics Wire Transformers So for me even if I just pulled it apart without actually breaking the transformers I’d more money vs putting it into the scrap steel. My time isn’t so valuable anymore. But the larger issue to me is the better recycling by type vs it go into the main scrap metal bin. So I spend the time. They are all finally end of life. End of an era. I just removed a still working from 1995 sw4024. > On Apr 14, 2026, at 9:27 AM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Asking for advice on scraping two old SW’s (one is SN 0049). Is it worth my time and energy to take them apart to separate the transformer out for higher return at the metal recycling place? > > > > Sent from my iPhone_______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From Jharen.Poole at sol-ark.com Tue Apr 14 12:08:25 2026 From: Jharen.Poole at sol-ark.com (Poole, Jharen) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2026 16:08:25 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Vince, Normally, this fault is triggered from too much current on the MPPT(s) of the inverter. If this is not the case, then there can be other possibilities. I'll list some of the other possibilities below. * Issues with 3rd party accessories such as extra diodes integrated onto the DC side of the inverter, optimizers, DC combiners * Unaccounted for Bi-facial module gains * A possible ARC fault is actually occurring (you can enable ARC fault detection on the inverter to see if an ARC fault triggers in place of the F20 Fault) * The battery is possibly being overdrawn (if it is being used look for issues involving the battery, or a shorted/ large AC load) * In rare cases, you can see this fault when the grid is down and the battery is bad which causes it to be unable to support loads * Hot conductors/ pinched conductors/ issues with conductor sizing/ double lugging I personally do not have background on your case with our support team, but if this fault is still giving you trouble after checking the various recommendations on this thread, please feel free to message me directly and I can speak to a support supervisor to see if your case needs to be escalated. Best Regards, Jharen Poole Applications Engineer II 972-575-8875 [cid:9fba026e-7022-45d3-bb35-a1bea4434d1c] ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 10, 2026 6:04 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Vince McClellan Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15K2P F20 MPPT Overcurrent Error Caution: This email is from an external source. Hello Wrenches Has anyone else on this list had issues with a Sol-Ark 15K2P randomly shutting down several times a day with an F-20 MPPT overcurrent error? The errors are occurring when the system is well under the max amperage per MPPT of 26 amps. We've had the inverter turn itself off when the online data shows 12.5 amps max. I realize that Sol-Ark's online data updates only every 5 minutes, so I could be possible that there is a spike that the online data isn't showing, but the array is in full sun with the same number of modules and the same string configuration on all 3 MPPT's. We are also seeing other anomalies such as MPPT 1 at 12 amps with MPPT 2 and 3 at 22 amps. Again, with the solar array in full sun, no clouds, and no shade. Sol-Ark originally thought it was because of an issue with Tigo RSD switches, but we don't use Tigo. We've had way too many issues with Tigo products. We've had people suggest that we're seeing the results of an edge of cloud affect, but there are not clouds to cause this. We've also tested all the circuits with a insulation tester in every possible configuration, and tested our wiring to insure there were no mistakes by ringing it out with a multimeter. The wiring is good. Sol-Ark tech support doesn't seem to know what the issue is, but they are assuring us that it's not their inverter at fault. I could use any suggestions that come to mind. I'm not sure what else to try at this point. Thank you, Vince McClellan President NABCEP PV Professional p: 541-485-8122 a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402 e: vince at solarenergydesgin.com w: SolarEnergyDesign.com CCB# 161672 [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wC-ZXfQzkibWZNI9aP7aFzUpqgwCEyY-FpsqQY_76qgx9AUxOA5kFpfiX_Jceh2N-O7yCP_sjrlXee] If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-3jdftdut.png Type: image/png Size: 82002 bytes Desc: Outlook-3jdftdut.png URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Apr 19 20:12:57 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2026 20:12:57 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator Message-ID: Hi All, I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I created my own. You're welcome to use it. https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator Feedback off-list encouraged. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Mon Apr 20 09:48:19 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 13:48:19 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <71818E8A-0AF9-40BD-A2AC-E094F258760F@solarwork.com> I’ve been using the electricalc which has an upgrade chip for the current electrical code every three years One of my desk and one in my briefcase Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com On Apr 19, 2026, at 6:16 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:  Hi All, I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I created my own. You're welcome to use it. https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator Feedback off-list encouraged. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 10:15:36 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 08:15:36 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: <71818E8A-0AF9-40BD-A2AC-E094F258760F@solarwork.com> References: <71818E8A-0AF9-40BD-A2AC-E094F258760F@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <8AF30234-4F56-4A0B-A505-8A9D200510F9@gmail.com> Wow impressive > On Apr 20, 2026, at 7:49 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  I’ve been using the electricalc which has an upgrade chip for the current electrical code every three years > One of my desk and one in my briefcase > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > >>> On Apr 19, 2026, at 6:16 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>  >> Hi All, >> >> I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I created my own. You're welcome to use it. >> >> https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator >> >> Feedback off-list encouraged. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 10:37:23 2026 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 10:37:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very cool Jason! Thank you! Howie Michaelson On Sun, Apr 19, 2026 at 8:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was > too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I > created my own. You're welcome to use it. > > https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator > > Feedback off-list encouraged. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at solshineenergy.com Mon Apr 20 13:27:04 2026 From: rick at solshineenergy.com (Rick Brown) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 13:27:04 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Apr 19, 2026, at 8:12 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > > I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I created my own. You're welcome to use it. > > https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator > > Feedback off-list encouraged. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > rick brown SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC Electrical & Solar Contracting Services www.SolShineEnergy.com Roanoke, VA Office: 540.235.3095 Mobile: 540.808.9502 VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE -- This email is intended only for the person(s) named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is confidential, privileged and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender of the error and delete the message. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 17:25:41 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 15:25:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP module Search Message-ID: If anyone has any old BP3215 mods laying around, let me know, off list. Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. 718-276-4954 Penrose CO -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Mon Apr 20 17:34:40 2026 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 14:34:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very nice app! Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 4/19/2026 5:12 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi All, > > I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It > was too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to > me. So I created my own. You're welcome to use it. > > https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator > > Feedback off-list encouraged. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Apr 20 18:39:17 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 18:39:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, all, for the positive feedback on and off list. I have another calculator that isn't ready for prime time yet, but I'm working on a MPPT string calculator. It pulls in panels from NREL (I only have a subset right now), but I have to add the inverters manually. You're welcome to try it out: https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/mppt-calculator Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 5:40 PM Kent via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Very nice app! > > Kent Osterberg > Blue Mountain Solar > > > On 4/19/2026 5:12 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > > I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was > too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I > created my own. You're welcome to use it. > > https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator > > Feedback off-list encouraged. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 21:53:19 2026 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2026 21:53:19 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, Another nice App. Very much appreciate your generosity in sharing! Howie Michaelson On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 6:42 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Thanks, all, for the positive feedback on and off list. > > > I have another calculator that isn't ready for prime time yet, but I'm > working on a MPPT string calculator. It pulls in panels from NREL (I only > have a subset right now), but I have to add the inverters manually. You're > welcome to try it out: > > https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/mppt-calculator > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 5:40 PM Kent via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Very nice app! >> >> Kent Osterberg >> Blue Mountain Solar >> >> >> On 4/19/2026 5:12 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was >> too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I >> created my own. You're welcome to use it. >> >> https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator >> >> Feedback off-list encouraged. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 21 07:08:27 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 07:08:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conduit Fill Calculator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No problem. If you want a panel or inverter not in the calculator, contact me off-list and I will add it. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 9:56 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jason, > Another nice App. Very much appreciate your generosity in sharing! > > Howie Michaelson > > > On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 6:42 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Thanks, all, for the positive feedback on and off list. >> >> >> I have another calculator that isn't ready for prime time yet, but I'm >> working on a MPPT string calculator. It pulls in panels from NREL (I >> only have a subset right now), but I have to add the inverters manually. >> You're welcome to try it out: >> >> https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/mppt-calculator >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 5:40 PM Kent via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Very nice app! >>> >>> Kent Osterberg >>> Blue Mountain Solar >>> >>> >>> On 4/19/2026 5:12 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I got tired of using an old go-to conduit fill calculator online. It was >>> too hard to use. And none of the popular mobile apps appealed to me. So I >>> created my own. You're welcome to use it. >>> >>> https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/conduit-fill-calculator >>> >>> Feedback off-list encouraged. >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jj at aprsworld.com Tue Apr 21 07:52:16 2026 From: jj at aprsworld.com (James Jarvis) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 06:52:16 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Physically strong panel recommendation for 2026? Message-ID: Hi re-wrenches, We make off-grid powered equipment and power systems for extreme locations. Lots of cold and very windy locations. One the major concerns is the physical strength of the panels in those high wind locations. We've developed a custom extrusion and clamping system for fulling clamping the long edge of the modules. But we, of course, need good strong glass to go between. For the last 5 years we've been using REC pure series. They have extra cross support bars glued to the back of the modules. Module sizes in the 360 to 420 watt range. I've seen zero blow outs on these modules in our application and have generally been happy with them. Except availability is always a challenge. And the size keeps creeping up and will soon exceed what will physically fit. Does anybody have recommendation for their favorite super strong mid-sized panel maker / series? Thanks -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 http://www.aprsworld.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Tue Apr 21 08:36:40 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 08:36:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Thank you Message-ID: Thank you for the calculator! It is a very nice tool. Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From lou at spreesolarsystems.com Tue Apr 21 13:00:23 2026 From: lou at spreesolarsystems.com (Lou Russo) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 07:00:23 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase 4th Gen Systems Issues? Message-ID: Aloha All, We are having issues with some of our 4th Gen Enphase Systems. These systems consist of the 6C Controller, 10C battery, IQ Meter Collar and of course the micros. The issues all relate to communications and the Gateway. Devices are connecting and disconnecting from the network. The gateway fails to fall back to the cell connection, takes forever to reboot, works for a hot minute then hangs. It seems like it will take firmware update then hangs.... lots of gremlins. I have wrestled for almost 2 months to get Enphase to send a replacement gateway, which is happening this Saturday. Crazy thing is they don't sell the new gateways yet so we have to rely on them to come and swap it. At this point, it would have been cheaper to buy a new one install it and be done with it. Is anyone else having issues with the new Enphase Product line? Lou Russo Owner lou at spreesolarsystems.com Office - 808 345 6762 Direct Line - 808 731 1907 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Tue Apr 21 14:57:29 2026 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:57:29 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase 4th Gen Systems Issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Is anyone else having issues with the new Enphase Product line? > Our lead service technician finally resolved a two-month saga involving a replacement Gateway. We finally managed to get a regional Enphase manager to look into another issue that Level 1 and Level 2 support teams repeatedly denied. It seems like they're feeling some serious pressure. Cheers, Sam [image: OnSite Energy] Sam Haraldson Operations Specialist -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Tue Apr 21 15:14:19 2026 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 12:14:19 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase 4th Gen Systems Issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We haven't had issues yet with the 4th gen systems, although we've only installed a small handful. We have had some painful issues with 3rd gen 5P battery systems; the communication wire seems very touchy. Ultimately, Enphase switched out a component or two on the Controllers. But it took weeks or months and multiple escalations to get to that point in some cases. We've gotten very specific with how we wire the comm wire (follow the drain wire requirements carefully). Unfortunately these issues along with really painful commissioning processes caused some team members to lose faith in Enphase's battery systems. We're hoping for better results with the 10C system. August On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 12:02 PM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Is anyone else having issues with the new Enphase Product line? >> > > Our lead service technician finally resolved a two-month saga involving a > replacement Gateway. We finally managed to get a regional Enphase manager > to look into another issue that Level 1 and Level 2 support teams > repeatedly denied. It seems like they're feeling some serious pressure. > > Cheers, > Sam > > [image: OnSite Energy] > > Sam Haraldson > Operations Specialist > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lou at spreesolarsystems.com Tue Apr 21 15:15:24 2026 From: lou at spreesolarsystems.com (Lou Russo) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 09:15:24 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase 4th Gen Systems Issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Same exact story with us, it took the regional manager to push it along. Hopefully we will resolve it. An Enphase Field Service tech flew out to us last week (we are in Hawaii) without the gateway, never showed up, and called us at noon to tell us that. Ugh. Lou Russo Owner lou at spreesolarsystems.com Office - 808 345 6762 Direct Line - 808 731 1907 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 8:57 AM Sam Haraldson wrote: > Is anyone else having issues with the new Enphase Product line? >> > > Our lead service technician finally resolved a two-month saga involving a > replacement Gateway. We finally managed to get a regional Enphase manager > to look into another issue that Level 1 and Level 2 support teams > repeatedly denied. It seems like they're feeling some serious pressure. > > Cheers, > Sam > > [image: OnSite Energy] > > Sam Haraldson > Operations Specialist > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 21 17:51:03 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 17:51:03 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Voltage Rise String Calculator Message-ID: Hi All, Here's another free tool you are welcome to use if you install Enphase. It only does 240V residential US inverters for now, and assumes copper conductors. https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/enphase-calculator/ It handles unlimited strings and allows for center-tapping. I believe it's pretty comprehensive and accurate, but as always, feedback is appreciated. Enjoy! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Apr 21 18:55:44 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 22:55:44 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? Message-ID: Hey All I have an elderly client who is averse to techy screens. I need to give her a "battery level monitor " from a dual 12KW Fortress inverter & 28.3KW of batteries instalation. Voltage alone is probably too complicated for her. Though a voltage only battery level meter may be the answer. Fortress has no remote option they said use your cell phone & the app. She has no internet or cell signal in the canyon & has had not good luck with star link. I do have a buried conduit to her cabin that I can hard wire to (suggestion)??? A shunt type monitor is not an option with (4) 0000 in and (4) - 0000 out on the negative cable. This all arose after all the cable installation....... All suggestions welcome & thanks in advance. _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 21 19:32:17 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 19:32:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is a local WiFi connection to a SolarAssistant on Raspberry Pi an option? That would be app based, but it has summary level data that is consumer friendly. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Apr 21, 2026, 6:57 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey All > > I have an elderly client who is averse to techy screens. > > I need to give her a “battery level monitor “ from a dual 12KW Fortress > inverter & 28.3KW of batteries instalation. > > Voltage alone is probably too complicated for her. > > Though a voltage only battery level meter may be the answer. > > Fortress has no remote option they said use your cell phone & the app. > > She has no internet or cell signal in the canyon & has had not good luck > with star link. I do have a buried conduit to her cabin that I can hard > wire to (suggestion)??? > > > > A shunt type monitor is not an option with (4) 0000 in and (4) – 0000 out > on the negative cable. This all arose after all the cable installation……. > > > > All suggestions welcome & thanks in advance. > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 20:34:11 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2026 18:34:11 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27CDB416-F10B-4E4E-B035-17BAD33C413B@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Apr 21 20:40:17 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 00:40:17 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: <27CDB416-F10B-4E4E-B035-17BAD33C413B@gmail.com> References: <27CDB416-F10B-4E4E-B035-17BAD33C413B@gmail.com> Message-ID: No Wi-Fi or cell option & she is not a cell phone booster candidate. 10 minutes to town on a winter avalanche prone road. Power can go out for 2-4 days depending on the storm. _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Jay via RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 00:34:11 +0000 Size: 26117 URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 22 06:44:32 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 06:44:32 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: References: <27CDB416-F10B-4E4E-B035-17BAD33C413B@gmail.com> Message-ID: What about a hardwired Ethernet connection to the SolarAssistant Raspberry Pi? Local access via IP address is an option. If a permanent display is required, Home Assistant with a dedicated tablet? It's a clunky workaround, but very effective once set up. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 8:42 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > No Wi-Fi or cell option & she is not a cell phone booster candidate. 10 > minutes to town on a winter avalanche prone road. Power can go out for 2-4 > days depending on the storm. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Apr 22 08:21:14 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 07:21:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5EA318BF-8485-463E-958B-E68E33C7F4BF@mavericksolar.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed Apr 22 11:47:27 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:47:27 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: <5EA318BF-8485-463E-958B-E68E33C7F4BF@mavericksolar.com> References: <5EA318BF-8485-463E-958B-E68E33C7F4BF@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: {6} Fortress 9.6KWH eForce _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:21:14 +0000 Size: 23982 URL: From Chris at OasisMontana.com Wed Apr 22 13:48:29 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 11:48:29 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace Power Series inverter question Message-ID: <008d01dcd280$3b2eec50$b18cc4f0$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks: Some of these antiques just won't die. I have a fellow with a Trace PS2512 in his RV (lightly used). He's very interested in lithium batteries - there is no PV in this system; his battery charging is done by shore power or generator. Is there any sort of remote that will work with his old beast, so he can accommodate the LFP technology? Or is he doomed to upgrade his inverter? Any advice is very helpful. Of course, the manual for the PS series doesn't mention LFP technologies! Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Apr 22 13:57:24 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 10:57:24 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace Power Series inverter question In-Reply-To: <008d01dcd280$3b2eec50$b18cc4f0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <008d01dcd280$3b2eec50$b18cc4f0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: The PS inverters (buzz-masters, as we call them) do not have a display. A display would be necessary to even attempt to set up for lithium. One could obtain a display in the past but doing so now may be iffy. It may be possible to use a display from an old SW. I am not clear on that. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:52 AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi folks: > > > > Some of these antiques just won’t die. I have a fellow with a Trace > PS2512 in his RV (lightly used). He’s very interested in lithium batteries > – there is no PV in this system; his battery charging is done by shore > power or generator. Is there any sort of remote that will work with his > old beast, so he can accommodate the LFP technology? Or is he doomed to > upgrade his inverter? Any advice is very helpful. Of course, the manual > for the PS series doesn’t mention LFP technologies! > > > > Best, > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Wed Apr 22 14:05:03 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 11:05:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace Power Series inverter question In-Reply-To: References: <008d01dcd280$3b2eec50$b18cc4f0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: If you could dig up the old SWRC, that would work as a display. As for working with LFP... It's hard to say, but it's based on the old SW's and should be configurable to charge LFP's... the only thing I don't know is if it'll handle the quick voltage rise as well as the old SW's will. Might be a good idea to take a look at one of the newer Victron 12V inverters... *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 11:00 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The PS inverters (buzz-masters, as we call them) do not have a display. A > display would be necessary to even attempt to set up for lithium. One could > obtain a display in the past but doing so now may be iffy. It may be > possible to use a display from an old SW. I am not clear on that. > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:52 AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi folks: >> >> >> >> Some of these antiques just won’t die. I have a fellow with a Trace >> PS2512 in his RV (lightly used). He’s very interested in lithium batteries >> – there is no PV in this system; his battery charging is done by shore >> power or generator. Is there any sort of remote that will work with his >> old beast, so he can accommodate the LFP technology? Or is he doomed to >> upgrade his inverter? Any advice is very helpful. Of course, the manual >> for the PS series doesn’t mention LFP technologies! >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> Chris Daum >> >> Oasis Montana Inc. >> >> 406-777-4309 >> >> 406-777-4309 fax >> >> www.oasismontana.com >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Wed Apr 22 14:19:23 2026 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 11:19:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace Power Series inverter question In-Reply-To: References: <008d01dcd280$3b2eec50$b18cc4f0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: I can't vouch for how they work, but there are a slew of LFP batteries on the market that seem to be targeted towards being installed in place of old lead acid batteries. They include built-in BMS to help with charging control. August On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 11:15 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > If you could dig up the old SWRC, that would work as a display. As for > working with LFP... It's hard to say, but it's based on the old SW's and > should be configurable to charge LFP's... the only thing I don't know is > if it'll handle the quick voltage rise as well as the old SW's will. > > Might be a good idea to take a look at one of the newer Victron 12V > inverters... > > > > > *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* > *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 > *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com > ------------------------------ > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 11:00 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> The PS inverters (buzz-masters, as we call them) do not have a display. A >> display would be necessary to even attempt to set up for lithium. One could >> obtain a display in the past but doing so now may be iffy. It may be >> possible to use a display from an old SW. I am not clear on that. >> >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:52 AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi folks: >>> >>> >>> >>> Some of these antiques just won’t die. I have a fellow with a Trace >>> PS2512 in his RV (lightly used). He’s very interested in lithium batteries >>> – there is no PV in this system; his battery charging is done by shore >>> power or generator. Is there any sort of remote that will work with his >>> old beast, so he can accommodate the LFP technology? Or is he doomed to >>> upgrade his inverter? Any advice is very helpful. Of course, the manual >>> for the PS series doesn’t mention LFP technologies! >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> >>> Chris Daum >>> >>> Oasis Montana Inc. >>> >>> 406-777-4309 >>> >>> 406-777-4309 fax >>> >>> www.oasismontana.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Wed Apr 22 18:38:05 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 15:38:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PS2512 with LFP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The default settings on the PS2512 don't look too bad for LFP -- 14.4 absorb and 13.4 float. The 2 hour default absorb could be the issue, if you didn't turn the generator off or unplug from shore power after it reached absorb voltage. And it would depend on the BMS for the battery that you use... the rackmount EG4's that I've used don't really like more than 14.1 or 14.2 for very long, even though you could custom set your own BMS for 14.4 without problems with a 4 cell LFP. Most rackmount batteries are not rated for mobile use with vibration and such anyway though... I think I've seen some of the cheap Li-time batteries that spec 14.6 volts, so might work with that -- though I've also found that a lot of them give you the spec for the emergency shutoff voltage, not the recommended absorb voltage. Also, a lot of the cheaper BMS's can't handle the capacity surge from turning on a large inverter like this, so would need a precharge circuit too. I think it's probably possible, but not a definite yes to switch it to LFP. Zeke > On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:52?AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi folks: >> >> >> >> Some of these antiques just won?t die. I have a fellow with a Trace >> PS2512 in his RV (lightly used). He?s very interested in lithium batteries >> ? there is no PV in this system; his battery charging is done by shore >> power or generator. Is there any sort of remote that will work with his >> old beast, so he can accommodate the LFP technology? Or is he doomed to >> upgrade his inverter? Any advice is very helpful. Of course, the manual >> for the PS series doesn?t mention LFP technologies! -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Apr 23 13:53:07 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2026 17:53:07 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: <5EA318BF-8485-463E-958B-E68E33C7F4BF@mavericksolar.com> References: <5EA318BF-8485-463E-958B-E68E33C7F4BF@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: Not according to Fortress can another Manu display be added. I have an appt to show the client what is there. She is resistive on the point it is not an anlog dial, Arrgh.. _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:21:14 +0000 Size: 23982 URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Apr 24 11:52:35 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 15:52:35 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: <5EA318BF-8485-463E-958B-E68E33C7F4BF@mavericksolar.com> References: <5EA318BF-8485-463E-958B-E68E33C7F4BF@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: (6) fortress 9.6KWH _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:21:14 +0000 Size: 23982 URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Fri Apr 24 12:52:40 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 11:52:40 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress remote monitor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri Apr 24 13:38:58 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 11:38:58 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace Power Series inverter question In-Reply-To: References: <008d01dcd280$3b2eec50$b18cc4f0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <6b8fe845-2812-47d4-97b5-1edd717035e6@solarray.com> I have an old SW display, if anyone is interested. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 4/22/2026 11:57 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > The PS inverters (buzz-masters, as we call them) do not have a > display. A display would be necessary to even attempt to set up for > lithium. One could obtain a display in the past but doing so now may > be iffy. It may be possible to use a display from an old SW. I am not > clear on that. > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 10:52 AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi folks: > > Some of these antiques just won’t die.  I have a fellow with a > Trace PS2512 in his RV (lightly used).  He’s very interested in > lithium batteries – there is no PV in this system; his battery > charging is done by shore power or generator.  Is there any sort > of remote that will work with his old beast, so he can accommodate > the LFP technology?  Or is he doomed to upgrade his inverter?   > Any advice is very helpful.  Of course, the manual for the PS > series doesn’t mention LFP technologies! > > Best, > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 21:44:32 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2026 18:44:32 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Big Charger, Small Generator In-Reply-To: <47EE1301-5764-4EB1-8CCF-F0867E6F74E4@gmail.com> References: <47EE1301-5764-4EB1-8CCF-F0867E6F74E4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Some of the old-school charger have taps inside the box that can be disconnected and will reduce the output of said inverter. Fun times On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 7:53 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’ve used iota and power max and they don’t care very much about power > quality. > > The charge verter from eg4 is 120 or 240 and has both voltage and amperage > adjustments. > > Jay > > On Feb 11, 2026, at 7:08 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Hi Mark, > > It will stall the generator and/or it will shutdown on overload and or > trip a breaker. > > However, many battery chargers have some adjustability so you may be able > to adjust it down to the sweet spot. The way I like to do it is start with > the charger very low, then slowly adjust the load up. At some point, the > generator will sound like its working hard but not overloaded. Just know > that you may need to adjust this for various operating conditions > (temperature is the big one) or if you are moving it around, elevation. > > Be prepared to be disappointed by the generators performance, battery > chargers can be difficult loads for low quality generators. > > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026, 6:01 AM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> >> >> If I have a larger AC powered battery charge, say 3kW and I have a >> battery bank that may want to pull some current, want will happen if I try >> to run the charger with a small, say 1.2 kW generator? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon Apr 27 10:09:42 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 10:09:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question Message-ID: Does anyone know where the spark generator is on a Peerless gas range? Tech support can sell us a new one, but can't tell me where the unit may be found on the stove. It may not need a new one. The symptoms are a bit confusing. The sparkers work well on all burners until the oven is used. After that they won't work for about 2 days. Then they start working again until the oven is used again. The situation warrants investigation before investing in a new spark generator. Thank you, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 13:46:25 2026 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 13:46:25 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger Message-ID: Hi All, I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra inverter installed in his house for battery backup. He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I don't see how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code compliance. Has anyone done something similar? Can anyone think of a code-compliant method to bring PV into this setup? Howie Michaelson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Mon Apr 27 14:19:55 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:19:55 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <040db52a-d4c0-46aa-a28d-90a5ce8fb2e3@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at hurshtown.com Mon Apr 27 10:52:24 2026 From: mark at hurshtown.com (Mark Downing) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:52:24 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It *might* be on the back side. YouTube could give more solid help. ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, April 27, 2026 10:09 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question Does anyone know where the spark generator is on a Peerless gas range? Tech support can sell us a new one, but can't tell me where the unit may be found on the stove. It may not need a new one. The symptoms are a bit confusing. The sparkers work well on all burners until the oven is used. After that they won't work for about 2 days. Then they start working again until the oven is used again. The situation warrants investigation before investing in a new spark generator. Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- ________________________________ This email has been scanned for spam and viruses. Click here to report this email as spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Mon Apr 27 17:21:36 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:21:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can't see any way to do this. Some sort of metal conduit or metal clad cable (not EMT specifically) is required by 690.31(D)(1) and I dont think the PVHCS exception would apply to this. This is an issue with european style inverters with direct MC4 connectors for the PV input. Short of putting the entire inverter inside another box, or bolting a box onto the outside of the inverter that enclosed the MC4 connectors.... Zeke Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 13:46:25 -0400 From: Howie Michaelson To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi All, I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra inverter installed in his house for battery backup. He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I don't see how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code compliance. Has anyone done something similar? Can anyone think of a code-compliant method to bring PV into this setup? Howie Michaelson On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 1:18 PM wrote: > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous > lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Peerless Gas Range Question (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) > 2. Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra > Inverter/Charger (Howie Michaelson) > 3. Re: Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra > Inverter/Charger (Glenn) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 10:09:42 -0400 > From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > > > Does anyone know where the spark generator is on a Peerless gas range? > Tech support can sell us a new one, but can't tell me where the unit may > be found on the stove. > > It may not need a new one. The symptoms are a bit confusing. The > sparkers work well on all burners until the oven is used. After that > they won't work for about 2 days. Then they start working again until > the oven is used again. > > The situation warrants investigation before investing in a new spark > generator. > > Thank you, > > Drake > > _Drake Chamberlin_ > > _Athens Electric LLC_ > > _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ > > _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ > > -- > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260427/c9192082/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 13:46:25 -0400 > From: Howie Michaelson > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro > Ultra Inverter/Charger > Message-ID: > LnqdqOoPd2AY4oq5w6EddcYpGDvcq_NkJjcDA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi All, > I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra > inverter installed in his > house for battery backup. He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I don't see > how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code compliance. > Has anyone done something similar? Can anyone think of a code-compliant > method to bring PV into this setup? > > Howie Michaelson > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260427/871cc0e9/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:19:55 -0400 > From: Glenn > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA > Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger > Message-ID: <040db52a-d4c0-46aa-a28d-90a5ce8fb2e3 at email.android.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260427/ae1e7f2a/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 128 > ******************************************** > -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 17:36:58 2026 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MDElectricSolar) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:36:58 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <588D216E-52CF-4C01-BD91-75E2F7E69DB0@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chris at OasisMontana.com Mon Apr 27 18:18:11 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 16:18:11 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012401dcd693$bdad2590$390770b0$@OasisMontana.com> This might be of assistance: https://www.premierrange.com/video-tutorials Is this a battery ignition unit? IF so, how old are the batteries? I think they need replacement after 4-5 years. Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-4309 fax From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Mark Downing via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, April 27, 2026 8:52 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Mark Downing Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question It *might* be on the back side. YouTube could give more solid help. _____ From: RE-wrenches > on behalf of Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2026 10:09 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question Does anyone know where the spark generator is on a Peerless gas range? Tech support can sell us a new one, but can't tell me where the unit may be found on the stove. It may not need a new one. The symptoms are a bit confusing. The sparkers work well on all burners until the oven is used. After that they won't work for about 2 days. Then they start working again until the oven is used again. The situation warrants investigation before investing in a new spark generator. Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- _____ This email has been scanned for spam and viruses. Click here to report this email as spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon Apr 27 22:19:47 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 20:19:47 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger In-Reply-To: <588D216E-52CF-4C01-BD91-75E2F7E69DB0@gmail.com> References: <588D216E-52CF-4C01-BD91-75E2F7E69DB0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <102c7f37-fb9c-44db-aeb0-74f161c5bb91@solarray.com> If you look at the graphics on the website, they're really showing temporary mounted PV.  This is not designed to be hardwired for an NEC approved installation.  It's like a portable generator.  I'd get the guy a couple of modules on folding racks, and make up a 50 ft portable cable so  he can set the modules in the sun to charge if its a long outage.   I've done a few of these for folks, using like the little Jackery systems.  Ryobi, Milwaukee, etc make "battery generators"; same concept:  you're not going to hardwire them in to anything.  Its got to be portable to stay compliant. If he wants the PV mounted to the roof, you're either throwing code out the door, or he needs a different inverter setup. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 4/27/2026 3:36 PM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote: > What is the input voltage requirement for this PV module to Eco flow > unit? It may be a low-voltage input which may not require any metal > conduit at all? > > Michael D Nelson > MD Electric & Solar, Inc. > 707-684-0064 mobile > 707-884-1862 office > www.mdelectricsolar.com > www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar > > >> On Apr 27, 2026, at 2:23 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> I can't see any way to do this.  Some sort of metal conduit or metal >> clad cable (not EMT specifically) is required by 690.31(D)(1) and I >> dont think the PVHCS exception would apply to this.   This is an >> issue with european style inverters with direct MC4 connectors for >> the PV input. >> >> Short of putting the entire inverter inside another box, or bolting a >> box onto the outside of the inverter that enclosed the MC4 connectors.... >> >> Zeke >> >> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 13:46:25 -0400 >> From: Howie Michaelson >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro >>         Ultra Inverter/Charger >> Message-ID: >>         >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi All, >> I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra >> inverter installed in his >> house for battery backup.  He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I >> don't see >> how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code >> compliance. >> Has anyone done something similar?  Can anyone think of a code-compliant >> method to bring PV into this setup? >> >> Howie Michaelson >> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 1:18 PM >> wrote: >> >> Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." >> >> >> When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore >> the Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any >> extraneous lines from the quoted message. >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>    1. Peerless Gas Range Question >> (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) >>    2. Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra >>       Inverter/Charger (Howie Michaelson) >>    3. Re: Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra >>       Inverter/Charger (Glenn) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 10:09:42 -0400 >> From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" >> >> >> Does anyone know where the spark generator is on a Peerless gas >> range? >> Tech support can sell us a new one, but can't tell me where the >> unit may >> be found on the stove. >> >> It may not need a new one. The symptoms are a bit confusing. The >> sparkers work well on all burners until the oven is used. After that >> they won't work for about 2 days. Then they start working again >> until >> the oven is used again. >> >> The situation warrants investigation before investing in a new spark >> generator. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> _Drake Chamberlin_ >> >> _Athens Electric LLC_ >> >> _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ >> >> _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ >> >> -- >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 13:46:25 -0400 >> From: Howie Michaelson >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro >>         Ultra Inverter/Charger >> Message-ID: >>         >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hi All, >> I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro >> Ultra >> inverter installed >> in his >> house for battery backup.  He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I >> don't see >> how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code >> compliance. >> Has anyone done something similar?  Can anyone think of a >> code-compliant >> method to bring PV into this setup? >> >> Howie Michaelson >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2026 14:19:55 -0400 >> From: Glenn >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA >>         Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger >> Message-ID: <040db52a-d4c0-46aa-a28d-90a5ce8fb2e3 at email.android.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 128 >> ******************************************** >> >> >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Tue Apr 28 08:07:31 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2026 08:07:31 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question In-Reply-To: <012401dcd693$bdad2590$390770b0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <012401dcd693$bdad2590$390770b0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: It is a battery ignition unit. The batteries are new. Thanks for the link. It has a lot of good information. I couldn't find information on the location of sparker, however. I think I will follow Todd's advice and trace the conductors. This unit has given us a lot of trouble. Is the Peerless still the only game in town if we want to avoid circuit boards and phantom loads, and run on propane? I love the simplicity of the range, but it is cheaply made. Higher end Peerless ranges are pretty pricey. Cheers, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ --- On 2026-04-27 18:18, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > This might be of assistance: > https://www.premierrange.com/video-tutorials > > Is this a battery ignition unit? IF so, how old are the batteries? I > think they need replacement after 4-5 years. > > Best, > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of Mark Downing via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2026 8:52 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Mark Downing > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question > > It *might* be on the back side. > > YouTube could give more solid help. > > ------------------------- > > From: RE-wrenches on behalf > of Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2026 10:09 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question > > Does anyone know where the spark generator is on a Peerless gas range? > Tech support can sell us a new one, but can't tell me where the unit > may be found on the stove. > > It may not need a new one. The symptoms are a bit confusing. The > sparkers work well on all burners until the oven is used. After that > they won't work for about 2 days. Then they start working again until > the oven is used again. > > The situation warrants investigation before investing in a new spark > generator. > > Thank you, > > Drake > > _Drake Chamberlin_ > > _Athens Electric LLC_ > > _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ > > _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ > > -- > > ------------------------- > > This email has been scanned for spam and viruses. Click here [1] to > report this email as spam. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://godaddy2.cloud-protect.net/app/report_spam.php?mod_id=11&mod_option=logitem&report=1&type=easyspam&k=k1&payload=53616c7465645f5f3000d3e69330aab00de80809ce6cf1f6bc9ce5384c461b3d0aaf00ae649c89377fc1adc38af83ccb13b7b8875b8fb3299c83a1bdd38fba5b1f5cc5d982057e6dafa3e6e4357ecb92c1a2f50ff4defc842edb844cd1128e1732d080ac57a929ac1d0ee33118f7231bc206e702957659b3cd6b7bca7476dd5060b3be4ac794b3f149e866cd9e6744a8a8ba5de0609755b659c1b4a2e1b044bc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 09:19:27 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2026 07:19:27 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E074A99-D584-4F1C-B014-7EE0EB016BCA@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 28 15:56:30 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2026 15:56:30 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's not where the problems end. It doesn't have arc fault protection. I get this phone call at least once a week. It's pretty frustrating - people buy these portable units and think we can just slap a couple of panels on the roof, and they're good to go. That's how the marketing makes it sound. https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/ecoflow-delta-pro-ultra-x-not-suitable-for-rooftop-solar Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 1:50 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra > inverter installed in his > house for battery backup. He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I don't see > how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code compliance. > Has anyone done something similar? Can anyone think of a code-compliant > method to bring PV into this setup? > > Howie Michaelson > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 16:26:43 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2026 16:26:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I echo Jason's frustration with this product's compliance. The DPU has been blacklisted by certain AHJs in LA county and I have heard whispers of investigations into the validity of this product's UL listing. Previous models did not include proper labels or means for emergency shut down of the ESS unit. I do not see a code compliant way to integrate solar into this unit. Last I checked, EcoFlow was pushing installers and customers to avoid permitting and interconnection applications because of its "portable nature" but this product is clearly under the purview of NFPA 855. It's a mess and I would suggest avoiding the DPU, especially in this specific PV integration application. On Tue, Apr 28, 2026 at 3:59 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > That's not where the problems end. It doesn't have arc fault protection. > I get this phone call at least once a week. It's pretty frustrating - > people buy these portable units and think we can just slap a couple of > panels on the roof, and they're good to go. That's how the marketing makes > it sound. > > > https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/ecoflow-delta-pro-ultra-x-not-suitable-for-rooftop-solar > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 1:50 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra >> inverter installed in his >> house for battery backup. He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I don't see >> how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code compliance. >> Has anyone done something similar? Can anyone think of a code-compliant >> method to bring PV into this setup? >> >> Howie Michaelson >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Apr 28 16:38:06 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2026 16:38:06 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Code compliant PV wire to an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra Inverter/Charger In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a client that said she purchased the DPU directly from EcoFlow with their smart home panel. They sent out a subcontractor from across the state, who installed the smart panel without a permit, replacing the entire main distribution panel. The workmanship was passable, but I told her I'm not touching it until she demands they go back and get a permit. Here's my plan for these situations... I'm telling people they made a mistake. I ask them to purchase a single Powerwall 3 with a Gateway 3 installed upstream of the EcoFlow panel, with however many solar panels they want. If the Powerwall battery is exhausted during an outage, the DPU will take over with the smart panel. The sun comes up in the morning, the Powerwall charges and turns on, and the DPU turns off and starts charging from the Powerwall. The downside is that you need to turn down the charge rate on the DPU, or the user needs to manage it closely. At least they get to use their DPU's capacity and get it charged by solar during a grid outage, albeit indirectly. These things are simply not made to work within the code framework we have, and I question their safety. 450V DC flexible cords to a charge controller on wheels is a recipe for disaster. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Tue, Apr 28, 2026 at 4:26 PM Chris Sparadeo wrote: > I echo Jason's frustration with this product's compliance. The DPU has > been blacklisted by certain AHJs in LA county and I have heard whispers of > investigations into the validity of this product's UL listing. Previous > models did not include proper labels or means for emergency shut down of > the ESS unit. I do not see a code compliant way to integrate solar into > this unit. Last I checked, EcoFlow was pushing installers and customers to > avoid permitting and interconnection applications because of its "portable > nature" but this product is clearly under the purview of NFPA 855. It's a > mess and I would suggest avoiding the DPU, especially in this specific PV > integration application. > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2026 at 3:59 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> That's not where the problems end. It doesn't have arc fault protection. >> I get this phone call at least once a week. It's pretty frustrating - >> people buy these portable units and think we can just slap a couple of >> panels on the roof, and they're good to go. That's how the marketing makes >> it sound. >> >> >> https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/ecoflow-delta-pro-ultra-x-not-suitable-for-rooftop-solar >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 1:50 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> I have a potential client who currently has an EcoFlow DELTA Pro Ultra >>> inverter installed in his >>> house for battery backup. He wants to install roof-mounted PV. I don't see >>> how to connect PV into the Inverter/Charger using EMT for code compliance. >>> Has anyone done something similar? Can anyone think of a code-compliant >>> method to bring PV into this setup? >>> >>> Howie Michaelson >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 16:32:41 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2026 14:32:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Peerless Gas Range Question In-Reply-To: <3E074A99-D584-4F1C-B014-7EE0EB016BCA@gmail.com> References: <3E074A99-D584-4F1C-B014-7EE0EB016BCA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51B8989C-EC22-4E10-A3EE-DB6711442984@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 20:12:39 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2026 18:12:39 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XWpro Message-ID: <0DDF2F44-C1CB-4161-9CF0-CF9FAF37AA05@gmail.com> Have a question Someone contacted me about trying to set up a new XWpro. Insight home no other devices. Inverter is on, led lights say it’s working there is 120/240v but it won’t power any loads. I told him to make sure they had both updated firmware but he ran into trouble Question Would incorrect firmware create that situation? I mean it’s weird it’s got volts but won’t do watts. But XW/pros are not my expertise Thx Jay From tump3391 at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 06:43:45 2026 From: tump3391 at gmail.com (Blair May) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2026 06:43:45 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XWpro In-Reply-To: <0DDF2F44-C1CB-4161-9CF0-CF9FAF37AA05@gmail.com> References: <0DDF2F44-C1CB-4161-9CF0-CF9FAF37AA05@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay off or on grid? If off then use the original firmware. You said it was new if off grid do not update FW. If on grid then up date firmware, make sure "region Code" is correct then reset ALL to factory defaults. Then see if that addresses it. Access is Admin PW is XWproGridCode Grid code password. XWproGridCodes Off grid code 1547- 2003 Blair "Tump" May On Wed, Apr 29, 2026, 8:17 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Have a question > > Someone contacted me about trying to set up a new XWpro. Insight home no > other devices. > > Inverter is on, led lights say it’s working there is 120/240v but it won’t > power any loads. > > I told him to make sure they had both updated firmware but he ran into > trouble > > Question > Would incorrect firmware create that situation? I mean it’s weird it’s > got volts but won’t do watts. > > But XW/pros are not my expertise > > Thx > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 08:31:40 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2026 06:31:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XWpro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F472654-1BAF-4CDC-BEAC-150AD92FE2C9@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Apr 30 11:53:55 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2026 15:53:55 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitor for Fortress result Message-ID: Finally got client to view the screen & all is well. Thanks all for the input [sigh of relief]. _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Apr 30 17:28:13 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2026 17:28:13 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] InsightHome Issue and Discover 42-48-6650 Message-ID: I met a new client with six Discover 42-48-6650 and two Conect XP Pro inverters, and she is looking to add more batteries. I'm not too familiar with Discover, but I was pleased to find out they are communicating with the inverters perfectly. The SCP is reporting what appears to be accurate state of charge. Anyway, are these batteries still available, and if not, can you add other Discover batteries in parallel and have them talk Xanbus with two different battery models? Second question, the InsightHome device on site won't put out an SSID, even after multiple factory resets and replacement of the micro SD card. Schneider tech support says it's probably toast. It's obsolete, so is there something else to replace this with to get InsightCloud access, or is it best to pick up an InsightHome device that is still floating around out there? Any advice appreciated! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Fri May 1 00:26:04 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2026 22:26:04 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping Message-ID: Wrenches, I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all is fine for a few months. I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing replaced. What should I be looking for and checking? The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. - Off grid - Pole mounted array - Solarex 110 w Modules Regards, Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri May 1 01:42:02 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2026 22:42:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6a269ef78c50735c516cb26af6f0fe50@mail.gmail.com> Jeremy: Do you have access to a thermal camera? It may reveal heating in the combiner. Burnish the conductors (wires and comb). Replace the breakers. Labor is always more expensive than materials. Breakers can fatigue. Replace the breakers. What is the Voc and Vmppt? Consider replacing the breakers with touch-safe fuses if the voltages even approach 150 VDC. Make certain the combiner is not exposed to sunlight or other heat sources. Good luck. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *All Solar via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, April 30, 2026 9:26 PM *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org *Cc:* All Solar *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping Wrenches, I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all is fine for a few months. I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing replaced. What should I be looking for and checking? The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. - Off grid - Pole mounted array - Solarex 110 w Modules Regards, Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri May 1 08:21:08 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 06:21:08 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96E5BB7A-BE3F-438E-8BB4-4E5489A896D0@gmail.com> Pls tell us Size breaker Voltage input Amperage input Wire size Age of breakers Thx > On Apr 30, 2026, at 10:31 PM, All Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Wrenches, > I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% > of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all is fine for a few months. > > I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing replaced. > > What should I be looking for and checking? > > The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. > Off grid > Pole mounted array > Solarex 110 w Modules > > > > Regards, > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpegg at energyalternatives.ca Fri May 1 15:10:48 2026 From: kpegg at energyalternatives.ca (Kevin Pegg) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 19:10:48 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XWpro In-Reply-To: <8F472654-1BAF-4CDC-BEAC-150AD92FE2C9@gmail.com> References: <8F472654-1BAF-4CDC-BEAC-150AD92FE2C9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, I have seen this exact thing before, a few times. It was a defective unit out of the box. Voltage is OK. But can’t carry loads. Will it power a basic load like 100W incandescent light bulb at all? Would be curious the build date. I think it was the 2020/2021 units that we saw upwards of 50% DOA out of the box. The best advice you can give the client is to abandon the XWPro. It hurts me to say that after 100’s of XW installs. There is way better, simpler, reliable tech today with tech support that is responsive. Not to mention how expensive it gets adding MPPT controllers. The 2.04 software version is absolute garbage and should have resulted in the loss of CSA/UL etc certifications. Schneider knows all about it, they just don’t care. The bar code label on the box will show what FW it shipped with. If the Insight portal won’t update the firmware you can use the USB dongle to force it. Kevin From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jay via RE-wrenches Sent: April-30-26 5:32 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jay ; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XWpro Thx I’ll pass that along. Offgrid as far as I know However he wasn’t able to load any firmware, not sure why. Problem remains. How is the inverter making volts and not allowing it to power anything? I’m not there so I am only going with what was told. I mean is this even possible? He had programmed the inverter via the insite. I don’t know what settings he did. I told him to do a factory reset but he had already left. It’s possible that’s it’s user error J On Apr 30, 2026, at 4:46 AM, Blair May via RE-wrenches > wrote:  Jay off or on grid? If off then use the original firmware. You said it was new if off grid do not update FW. If on grid then up date firmware, make sure "region Code" is correct then reset ALL to factory defaults. Then see if that addresses it. Access is Admin PW is XWproGridCode Grid code password. XWproGridCodes Off grid code 1547- 2003 Blair "Tump" May On Wed, Apr 29, 2026, 8:17 PM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: Have a question Someone contacted me about trying to set up a new XWpro. Insight home no other devices. Inverter is on, led lights say it’s working there is 120/240v but it won’t power any loads. I told him to make sure they had both updated firmware but he ran into trouble Question Would incorrect firmware create that situation? I mean it’s weird it’s got volts but won’t do watts. But XW/pros are not my expertise Thx Jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david2coale at gmail.com Fri May 1 15:55:34 2026 From: david2coale at gmail.com (David Coale) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 12:55:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It could be that the breakers are tripping due to the cloud-edge effect. This happens when you have a sunny day with a few puffy clouds drifting by. As the clouds start to shade the array, there is a focusing effect around the cloud that will increase the sunlight on the array. If the breakers are close to the max output of the array, then they can trip during these sunny/cloudy days. Increasing the breakers to the next size up, if the wiring will handle it, will fix the problem. I have seen this in a few installations. Changing the breakers from 10 amps to 15 amps fixed the problem. David On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 9:31 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's > let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% > of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all is > fine for a few months. > > I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing > replaced. > > What should I be looking for and checking? > > The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. > > - Off grid > - Pole mounted array > - Solarex 110 w Modules > > > > > Regards, > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri May 1 17:08:20 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 15:08:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've also seen some Outback 15A breakers in combiner boxes just trip when they shouldn't.  Replaced with Midnite and quit having problems.  As others mentioned, going to larger breakers is usually fine.  I usually match the fuse rating for the module itself.  Many are 20A, which gets away from any edge of cloud stuff too. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 5/1/2026 1:55 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: > It could be that the breakers are tripping due to the cloud-edge > effect.  This happens when you have a sunny day with a few puffy > clouds drifting by.  As the clouds start to shade the array, there is > a focusing effect around the cloud that will increase the sunlight on > the array.  If the breakers are close to the max output of the array, > then they can trip during these sunny/cloudy days.  Increasing the > breakers to the next size up, if the wiring will handle it, will fix > the problem.  I have seen this in a few installations.  Changing the > breakers from 10 amps to 15 amps fixed the problem. > > David > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 9:31 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Wrenches, > I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount > CBs. He's let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% > of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, > and all is fine for a few months. > > I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers > needing replaced. > > What should I be looking for and checking? > > The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. > > * Off grid > * Pole mounted array > * Solarex 110 w Modules > > > > > Regards, > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri May 1 17:20:08 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 15:20:08 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66E6FDF7-A5E9-4AFB-83B5-EFD006718987@gmail.com> They are both made by CBI of south africa I’m wondering if age is the main issue? > On May 1, 2026, at 3:08 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I've also seen some Outback 15A breakers in combiner boxes just trip when they shouldn't. Replaced with Midnite and quit having problems. As others mentioned, going to larger breakers is usually fine. I usually match the fuse rating for the module itself. Many are 20A, which gets away from any edge of cloud stuff too. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > On 5/1/2026 1:55 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: >> It could be that the breakers are tripping due to the cloud-edge effect. This happens when you have a sunny day with a few puffy clouds drifting by. As the clouds start to shade the array, there is a focusing effect around the cloud that will increase the sunlight on the array. If the breakers are close to the max output of the array, then they can trip during these sunny/cloudy days. Increasing the breakers to the next size up, if the wiring will handle it, will fix the problem. I have seen this in a few installations. Changing the breakers from 10 amps to 15 amps fixed the problem. >> >> David >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 9:31 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches > wrote: >>> Wrenches, >>> I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% >>> of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all is fine for a few months. >>> >>> I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing replaced. >>> >>> What should I be looking for and checking? >>> >>> The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. >>> Off grid >>> Pole mounted array >>> Solarex 110 w Modules >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> All Solar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri May 1 17:22:54 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 15:22:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: <66E6FDF7-A5E9-4AFB-83B5-EFD006718987@gmail.com> References: <66E6FDF7-A5E9-4AFB-83B5-EFD006718987@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88bc4b1e-c1da-4700-9504-64ba924148c6@solarray.com> I know, but I think Outback possibly had a bad batch about 20 years ago.  They were tripping just a year after installation.... Ray On 5/1/2026 3:20 PM, jay wrote: > They are both made by CBI of south africa > > I’m wondering if age is the main issue? > > > >> On May 1, 2026, at 3:08 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> I've also seen some Outback 15A breakers in combiner boxes just trip >> when they shouldn't.  Replaced with Midnite and quit having >> problems.  As others mentioned, going to larger breakers is usually >> fine. I usually match the fuse rating for the module itself.  Many >> are 20A, which gets away from any edge of cloud stuff too. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> >> On 5/1/2026 1:55 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> It could be that the breakers are tripping due to the cloud-edge >>> effect.  This happens when you have a sunny day with a few puffy >>> clouds drifting by.  As the clouds start to shade the array, there >>> is a focusing effect around the cloud that will increase the >>> sunlight on the array.  If the breakers are close to the max output >>> of the array, then they can trip during these sunny/cloudy days.  >>> Increasing the breakers to the next size up, if the wiring will >>> handle it, will fix the problem.  I have seen this in a few >>> installations.  Changing the breakers from 10 amps to 15 amps fixed >>> the problem. >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 9:31 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches >>> wrote: >>> >>> Wrenches, >>> I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount >>> CBs. He's let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% >>> of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, >>> and all is fine for a few months. >>> >>> I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers >>> needing replaced. >>> >>> What should I be looking for and checking? >>> >>> The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. >>> >>> * Off grid >>> * Pole mounted array >>> * Solarex 110 w Modules >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> All Solar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>> work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Fri May 1 17:47:05 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 15:47:05 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: <96E5BB7A-BE3F-438E-8BB4-4E5489A896D0@gmail.com> References: <96E5BB7A-BE3F-438E-8BB4-4E5489A896D0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay and all, Here are the details you requested, from the module nameplate (I have not tested these yet): - Breaker Size: 9A - VOC: 41.2V - VMP: 32.9V - IMP: 3.34A - ISC: 3.69A - Max Series Fuse: 20A - Configuration: One module per string feeding a SB50 charge controller. - 10 or 12 guage wire from modules to combiner -Breakers are approximately 20yrs old Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 On Fri, May 1, 2026 at 6:21 AM Jay wrote: > Pls tell us > Size breaker > Voltage input > Amperage input > Wire size > Age of breakers > > Thx > > On Apr 30, 2026, at 10:31 PM, All Solar via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Wrenches, > I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's > let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% > of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all is > fine for a few months. > > I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing > replaced. > > What should I be looking for and checking? > > The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. > > - Off grid > - Pole mounted array > - Solarex 110 w Modules > > > > > Regards, > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri May 1 18:01:14 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 16:01:14 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Fri May 1 18:01:53 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 16:01:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: These are not MN breakers. After seeing that the module max series fuse rating is 20A, which is a stocking item for us, along with the fact that it’s a 3 hr drive, I’ll likely just replace the breakers. Thanks for the collaboration snd feedback! Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 On Fri, May 1, 2026 at 3:10 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I've also seen some Outback 15A breakers in combiner boxes just trip when > they shouldn't. Replaced with Midnite and quit having problems. As others > mentioned, going to larger breakers is usually fine. I usually match the > fuse rating for the module itself. Many are 20A, which gets away from any > edge of cloud stuff too. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > On 5/1/2026 1:55 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: > > It could be that the breakers are tripping due to the cloud-edge effect. > This happens when you have a sunny day with a few puffy clouds drifting > by. As the clouds start to shade the array, there is a focusing effect > around the cloud that will increase the sunlight on the array. If the > breakers are close to the max output of the array, then they can trip > during these sunny/cloudy days. Increasing the breakers to the next size > up, if the wiring will handle it, will fix the problem. I have seen this > in a few installations. Changing the breakers from 10 amps to 15 amps > fixed the problem. > > David > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 9:31 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, >> I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's >> let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% >> of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all >> is fine for a few months. >> >> I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing >> replaced. >> >> What should I be looking for and checking? >> >> The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. >> >> - Off grid >> - Pole mounted array >> - Solarex 110 w Modules >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> All Solar >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri May 1 23:25:52 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 20:25:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The breaker is in place to prevent back feeding in the event of a short between the breaker and the modules, look at the max fuse rating on the modules as a reference but don't exceed that value. Most are 20 amps now up from 15 some years back. Look at each breaker closely and check each breaker during the middle of the day and check for heat damage, also make sure they are DC rated, I have seen this even on large arrays and the combiner gets damaged as a result. Fun times On Fri, May 1, 2026, 3:05 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > These are not MN breakers. > After seeing that the module max series fuse rating is 20A, which is a > stocking item for us, along with the fact that it’s a 3 hr drive, I’ll > likely just replace the breakers. > > Thanks for the collaboration snd feedback! > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > > > On Fri, May 1, 2026 at 3:10 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I've also seen some Outback 15A breakers in combiner boxes just trip when >> they shouldn't. Replaced with Midnite and quit having problems. As others >> mentioned, going to larger breakers is usually fine. I usually match the >> fuse rating for the module itself. Many are 20A, which gets away from any >> edge of cloud stuff too. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> On 5/1/2026 1:55 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> It could be that the breakers are tripping due to the cloud-edge effect. >> This happens when you have a sunny day with a few puffy clouds drifting >> by. As the clouds start to shade the array, there is a focusing effect >> around the cloud that will increase the sunlight on the array. If the >> breakers are close to the max output of the array, then they can trip >> during these sunny/cloudy days. Increasing the breakers to the next size >> up, if the wiring will handle it, will fix the problem. I have seen this >> in a few installations. Changing the breakers from 10 amps to 15 amps >> fixed the problem. >> >> David >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 9:31 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Wrenches, >>> I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's >>> let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% >>> of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all >>> is fine for a few months. >>> >>> I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing >>> replaced. >>> >>> What should I be looking for and checking? >>> >>> The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. >>> >>> - Off grid >>> - Pole mounted array >>> - Solarex 110 w Modules >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> All Solar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Fri May 1 23:56:41 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Fri, 1 May 2026 21:56:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 👍 All Solar reacted via Gmail -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/vnd.google.email-reaction+json Size: 37 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sat May 2 09:50:49 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sat, 2 May 2026 13:50:49 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combiner breakers tripping In-Reply-To: <66E6FDF7-A5E9-4AFB-83B5-EFD006718987@gmail.com> References: <66E6FDF7-A5E9-4AFB-83B5-EFD006718987@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2CD842D8-35A7-42BC-8B6D-19A16709C057@solarwork.com> Is this high elevation? Is the PV charge controller maxed out on PV so therefore edge of cloud effect definitely could be an issue.? Does it happen more often when it’s cold? Sent from my iPad On May 1, 2026, at 3:22 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote:  They are both made by CBI of south africa I’m wondering if age is the main issue? On May 1, 2026, at 3:08 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote: I've also seen some Outback 15A breakers in combiner boxes just trip when they shouldn't. Replaced with Midnite and quit having problems. As others mentioned, going to larger breakers is usually fine. I usually match the fuse rating for the module itself. Many are 20A, which gets away from any edge of cloud stuff too. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 5/1/2026 1:55 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: It could be that the breakers are tripping due to the cloud-edge effect. This happens when you have a sunny day with a few puffy clouds drifting by. As the clouds start to shade the array, there is a focusing effect around the cloud that will increase the sunlight on the array. If the breakers are close to the max output of the array, then they can trip during these sunny/cloudy days. Increasing the breakers to the next size up, if the wiring will handle it, will fix the problem. I have seen this in a few installations. Changing the breakers from 10 amps to 15 amps fixed the problem. David On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 9:31 PM All Solar via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wrenches, I've got a c client with an Outback PV combiner with DIN mount CBs. He's let me know a few times that 9 of 10 , or at least 50% of the breakers are tripping for no apparent reason. He resets, and all is fine for a few months. I suspect something is wrong with the array vs. the breakers needing replaced. What should I be looking for and checking? The client has made sure the breaker screws are tight. * Off grid * Pole mounted array * Solarex 110 w Modules Regards, Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nponzio at buildingenergyus.com Tue May 5 12:14:48 2026 From: nponzio at buildingenergyus.com (Nicholas Ponzio) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 12:14:48 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PSA: Schuco recall and broader polyamide backsheet defect (2010-2014 era) Message-ID: Wrenches, Sharing a finding from this week that I figure plenty of you are running into and may not have connected the dots on. I know I hadn't until yesterday. We pulled an old array off a roof in Vermont. Not our installation. Modules were Schuco, vintage ~2010. Client asked about reinstalling vs. replacing, and that question sent me down a rabbit hole. It turns out Schuco issued a formal product safety warning in 2022 covering modules delivered from 2010 to 2014. The polyamide backsheet from a specific supplier can develop chalking and cracking along the internal cell connector. When this happens, the panel frame can become electrically live. Critical detail: inverter shutdown does NOT eliminate the hazard while the panels see sunlight. The manufacturer's own remediation guidance is to uninstall and dispose of panels. UK Government issued a formal product safety alert (2211-0050). That alone was news to me. But the bigger story is that this is not a Schuco-specific defect. The polyamide backsheet failure mode is industry-wide for the 2010 to 2014 era. DuPont's 2019 field reliability study estimated 12 GW of field failures from PA backsheet through-cracks. Schuco is unusual in that they actually published a recall. Most of the other affected manufacturers either went out of business (Solon, Scheuten, Conergy, Suntech) or quietly handle replacements case-by-case without public notification. Trina, Yingli, early Canadian Solar, Jinko, Renesola all show up in field failure literature for this era. Why I'm posting: 1. We've installed a few of these brands in that window ourselves. I'm now building an outreach list to proactively notify those clients. I'd be surprised if I'm the only one in this group with legacy 2010 to 2014 systems that warrant a second look. 2. Symptom that prompted me to dig deeper: we've had multiple clients this winter reporting intermittent DC ground faults, mostly in cold/wet conditions, that clear up in dry weather. Classic signature of insulation breakdown in cracked PA backsheets. Insulation resistance drops with moisture, recovers when dry. If you're seeing winter-correlated GFDI events on legacy systems, this is worth checking before chalking it up to age. 3. Field protocol matters. Treat suspect arrays as energized regardless of inverter state. Insulated gloves, photograph nameplates and serial numbers, and document backsheet condition. Visual cues: chalky white residue, fine cracks between cells, yellowing, powdery feel when wiped. 4. For confirmed-recall modules (Schuco MPE in the affected serial range): do not reinstall. Manufacturer guidance is to uninstall and dispose. For other PA-backsheet modules without a formal recall, treat the decision as an engineering judgment call. Visual inspection (chalking, cracking, yellowing) plus insulation resistance testing should be your minimum bar before considering reuse. My personal bias is heavily against reinstalling any 10+ year old PA-backsheet module given the cost of labor vs. the risk profile, but that's a business call, not a safety mandate. References for anyone who wants to dig in further: - Schuco product warning (2022): solarpowerportal.co.uk article "Schüco issues product warning over potential defect in solar modules" - pv-magazine coverage of the expanded warning (Nov 2022) - UK Gov product safety alert 2211-0050 - DuPont 2019 Global Field Reliability Study (12 GW failure estimate) - ScienceDirect, Eder et al, "Error analysis of aged modules with cracked polyamide backsheets" (2019) I searched the list archive and didn't see this come up before. If I missed an earlier thread, apologies for the duplication. Otherwise, I'm curious whether others are seeing the winter ground fault pattern, and how folks are handling client communication and remediation scoping on these legacy systems. -- Nicholas Ponzio Building Energy Williston, VT 05495 http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com "Building Solutions for a Sustainable Future" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue May 5 16:02:33 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 13:02:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire Message-ID: Friends: The included CTs are too small. Anyone else face this problem? TIA. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Tue May 5 17:47:05 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 14:47:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PSA: Schuco recall and broader polyamide backsheet defect (2010-2014 era) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting. I installed some of those manufacturers between those dates. The company I was working for from 2010 to 2019 is no longer in business, and I lost all my email from there, so don't even have good records of the customers then, though I probably have all of the permit drawings on some old hard drive still. These installs were in Colorado, so a much drier climate than Vermont, but still, there are wet days... Zeke On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 1:25 PM wrote: > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous > lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. PSA: Schuco recall and broader polyamide backsheet defect > (2010-2014 era) (Nicholas Ponzio) > 2. Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire (William Miller) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 12:14:48 -0400 > From: Nicholas Ponzio > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] PSA: Schuco recall and broader polyamide > backsheet defect (2010-2014 era) > Message-ID: > < > CADR8m8juMPgDtzAYoTWoBAjqzar-HGcjhi1_9v1HT4HA8xLrgQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Wrenches, > > Sharing a finding from this week that I figure plenty of you are running > into and may not have connected the dots on. I know I hadn't until > yesterday. > > We pulled an old array off a roof in Vermont. Not our installation. Modules > were Schuco, vintage ~2010. Client asked about reinstalling vs. replacing, > and that question sent me down a rabbit hole. > > It turns out Schuco issued a formal product safety warning in 2022 covering > modules delivered from 2010 to 2014. The polyamide backsheet from a > specific supplier can develop chalking and cracking along the internal cell > connector. When this happens, the panel frame can become electrically live. > Critical detail: inverter shutdown does NOT eliminate the hazard while the > panels see sunlight. The manufacturer's own remediation guidance is to > uninstall and dispose of panels. UK Government issued a formal product > safety alert (2211-0050). > > That alone was news to me. But the bigger story is that this is not a > Schuco-specific defect. The polyamide backsheet failure mode is > industry-wide for the 2010 to 2014 era. DuPont's 2019 field reliability > study estimated 12 GW of field failures from PA backsheet through-cracks. > Schuco is unusual in that they actually published a recall. Most of the > other affected manufacturers either went out of business (Solon, Scheuten, > Conergy, Suntech) or quietly handle replacements case-by-case without > public notification. Trina, Yingli, early Canadian Solar, Jinko, Renesola > all show up in field failure literature for this era. > > Why I'm posting: > > 1. We've installed a few of these brands in that window ourselves. I'm now > building an outreach list to proactively notify those clients. I'd be > surprised if I'm the only one in this group with legacy 2010 to 2014 > systems that warrant a second look. > > 2. Symptom that prompted me to dig deeper: we've had multiple clients this > winter reporting intermittent DC ground faults, mostly in cold/wet > conditions, that clear up in dry weather. Classic signature of insulation > breakdown in cracked PA backsheets. Insulation resistance drops with > moisture, recovers when dry. If you're seeing winter-correlated GFDI events > on legacy systems, this is worth checking before chalking it up to age. > > 3. Field protocol matters. Treat suspect arrays as energized regardless of > inverter state. Insulated gloves, photograph nameplates and serial numbers, > and document backsheet condition. Visual cues: chalky white residue, fine > cracks between cells, yellowing, powdery feel when wiped. > > 4. For confirmed-recall modules (Schuco MPE in the affected serial range): > do not reinstall. Manufacturer guidance is to uninstall and dispose. For > other PA-backsheet modules without a formal recall, treat the decision as > an engineering judgment call. Visual inspection (chalking, cracking, > yellowing) plus insulation resistance testing should be your minimum bar > before considering reuse. My personal bias is heavily against reinstalling > any 10+ year old PA-backsheet module given the cost of labor vs. the risk > profile, but that's a business call, not a safety mandate. > > References for anyone who wants to dig in further: > > - Schuco product warning (2022): solarpowerportal.co.uk article "Sch?co > issues product warning over potential defect in solar modules" > - pv-magazine coverage of the expanded warning (Nov 2022) > - UK Gov product safety alert 2211-0050 > - DuPont 2019 Global Field Reliability Study (12 GW failure estimate) > - ScienceDirect, Eder et al, "Error analysis of aged modules with cracked > polyamide backsheets" (2019) > > I searched the list archive and didn't see this come up before. If I missed > an earlier thread, apologies for the duplication. Otherwise, I'm curious > whether others are seeing the winter ground fault pattern, and how folks > are handling client communication and remediation scoping on these legacy > systems. > > > > -- > Nicholas Ponzio > Building Energy > Williston, VT 05495 > http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Tue May 5 18:22:55 2026 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 15:22:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PSA: Schuco recall and broader polyamide backsheet defect (2010-2014 era) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Nicholas for passing on this information. We have a couple of recent sites where we upgraded old string inverters to modern models and found intermittent ground faults originating from the modules. I think the modern inverters have more sensitive ground fault sensing. One system was with ~2015 SunPower modules, which was covered under warranty by Maxeon and the other was for ~2008 Sanyo modules. The SunPower modules showed visible separation of the cells and backsheet from the front glass. We haven't yet confirmed the situation with Sanyo, but I thought I would just mention that these ground faults are hard to deal with. As you mentioned, they may be intermittent and appear more often during wet weather. August On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 9:16 AM Nicholas Ponzio via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > Sharing a finding from this week that I figure plenty of you are running > into and may not have connected the dots on. I know I hadn't until > yesterday. > > We pulled an old array off a roof in Vermont. Not our installation. > Modules were Schuco, vintage ~2010. Client asked about reinstalling vs. > replacing, and that question sent me down a rabbit hole. > > It turns out Schuco issued a formal product safety warning in 2022 > covering modules delivered from 2010 to 2014. The polyamide backsheet from > a specific supplier can develop chalking and cracking along the internal > cell connector. When this happens, the panel frame can become electrically > live. Critical detail: inverter shutdown does NOT eliminate the hazard > while the panels see sunlight. The manufacturer's own remediation guidance > is to uninstall and dispose of panels. UK Government issued a formal > product safety alert (2211-0050). > > That alone was news to me. But the bigger story is that this is not a > Schuco-specific defect. The polyamide backsheet failure mode is > industry-wide for the 2010 to 2014 era. DuPont's 2019 field reliability > study estimated 12 GW of field failures from PA backsheet through-cracks. > Schuco is unusual in that they actually published a recall. Most of the > other affected manufacturers either went out of business (Solon, Scheuten, > Conergy, Suntech) or quietly handle replacements case-by-case without > public notification. Trina, Yingli, early Canadian Solar, Jinko, Renesola > all show up in field failure literature for this era. > > Why I'm posting: > > 1. We've installed a few of these brands in that window ourselves. I'm now > building an outreach list to proactively notify those clients. I'd be > surprised if I'm the only one in this group with legacy 2010 to 2014 > systems that warrant a second look. > > 2. Symptom that prompted me to dig deeper: we've had multiple clients this > winter reporting intermittent DC ground faults, mostly in cold/wet > conditions, that clear up in dry weather. Classic signature of insulation > breakdown in cracked PA backsheets. Insulation resistance drops with > moisture, recovers when dry. If you're seeing winter-correlated GFDI events > on legacy systems, this is worth checking before chalking it up to age. > > 3. Field protocol matters. Treat suspect arrays as energized regardless of > inverter state. Insulated gloves, photograph nameplates and serial numbers, > and document backsheet condition. Visual cues: chalky white residue, fine > cracks between cells, yellowing, powdery feel when wiped. > > 4. For confirmed-recall modules (Schuco MPE in the affected serial range): > do not reinstall. Manufacturer guidance is to uninstall and dispose. For > other PA-backsheet modules without a formal recall, treat the decision as > an engineering judgment call. Visual inspection (chalking, cracking, > yellowing) plus insulation resistance testing should be your minimum bar > before considering reuse. My personal bias is heavily against reinstalling > any 10+ year old PA-backsheet module given the cost of labor vs. the risk > profile, but that's a business call, not a safety mandate. > > References for anyone who wants to dig in further: > > - Schuco product warning (2022): solarpowerportal.co.uk article "Schüco > issues product warning over potential defect in solar modules" > - pv-magazine coverage of the expanded warning (Nov 2022) > - UK Gov product safety alert 2211-0050 > - DuPont 2019 Global Field Reliability Study (12 GW failure estimate) > - ScienceDirect, Eder et al, "Error analysis of aged modules with cracked > polyamide backsheets" (2019) > > I searched the list archive and didn't see this come up before. If I > missed an earlier thread, apologies for the duplication. Otherwise, I'm > curious whether others are seeing the winter ground fault pattern, and how > folks are handling client communication and remediation scoping on these > legacy systems. > > > > -- > Nicholas Ponzio > Building Energy > Williston, VT 05495 > http://www.BuildingEnergyVT.com > > "Building Solutions for a Sustainable Future" > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue May 5 20:42:40 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 20:42:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact Message-ID: Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with their abysmal customer service department? I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are still in business. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Tue May 5 21:14:04 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 18:14:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's what tech support told you? If so I would call again and press them. In my experience they have responded well to a sternly worded email in the rare occasion that I got a difficult representative. It's funny I often hear complaints about them but my experience has been great over the years. Never once had an RMA denied. Sometimes I have had to be persistent but nothing ridiculous. On Tue, May 5, 2026, 5:44 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with > their abysmal customer service department? > > I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients > monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to > me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. > > The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. > > SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are > still in business. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue May 5 21:23:42 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 21:23:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, Please contact me off list. I just went through this last week. And even my inside tech could not make it work. Their transfer procedure is totally f'ed up. Both you and the customer must sign up for a new "customer" number. Then the online paperwork will be accepted and create a transfer case #. On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 8:47 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with > their abysmal customer service department? > > I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients > monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to > me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. > > The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. > > SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are > still in business. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david2coale at gmail.com Tue May 5 22:42:50 2026 From: david2coale at gmail.com (David Coale) Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 19:42:50 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, the Solar Edge tech support stinks, unless you are doing a system with a battery. Then you get someone that really knows what they are talking about. For transfer of monitoring to another installer, use this link or the chatbot: https://www.solaredge.com/us/site-transfer Hope that helps, David On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 5:47 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with > their abysmal customer service department? > > I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients > monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to > me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. > > The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. > > SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are > still in business. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed May 6 06:59:26 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 06:59:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe when selling new batteries. I recently tried to get support with faulty HD Wave inverters connected to LG RESU batteries, and I eventually gave up. SolarEdge was completely useless. They couldn't even tell me which current generation inverter would work as a replacement, even if I were to buy new inverters rather than go down the warranty path. They are happy to support current generation equipment in support of sales, but legacy products are very poorly supported. They also started sending out Home Hub inverters as warranty replacements for HD Waves, and sometimes the conduit entries don't line up, so there is significant electrical rework - and no additional compensation. I'm surprised to hear of anyone having good experiences with this company. Maybe it's the area I live in, but the Titan Solars of the world installed a lot of their product. Jason Szumlanski On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 10:43 PM David Coale wrote: > Yes, the Solar Edge tech support stinks, unless you are doing a system > with a battery. Then you get someone that really knows what they are > talking about. For transfer of monitoring to another installer, use this > link or the chatbot: > > https://www.solaredge.com/us/site-transfer > > Hope that helps, > > David > > > On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 5:47 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with >> their abysmal customer service department? >> >> I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients >> monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to >> me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. >> >> The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. >> >> SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are >> still in business. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed May 6 08:50:19 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 12:50:19 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98685CC7-6C8A-4AB9-B6DA-7D5EEA31067A@solarwork.com> Not true Jason we have inherited a system from a company that is defunct. It was a matter of going through and collecting all the relevant model and serial numbers and we went through a minor process. This was a year back. It wasn’t too complicated, but we had to jump through a couple of hoops. SolarEdge was actually pretty helpful. Sent from my iPad On May 5, 2026, at 7:26 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote:  Jason, Please contact me off list. I just went through this last week. And even my inside tech could not make it work. Their transfer procedure is totally f'ed up. Both you and the customer must sign up for a new "customer" number. Then the online paperwork will be accepted and create a transfer case #. On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 8:47 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with their abysmal customer service department? I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are still in business. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zIGox3hmaGW8StlnANQvRdXBrTEgpee6ZmV_8h-pfWcEl7lwlqfhSqd2PgPh89cgzwpzfUzuuIGxKE] Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!! dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Wed May 6 09:05:21 2026 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 07:05:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The process David suggested works well. I've used it twice recently and it sometimes requires diligence but hasn't needed customer service escalation. As the installer, double-check your "Account ID" before the client enters it into the form as you may have more than one. The client can upload a document proving home ownership instead of providing the site ID. https://www.solaredge.com/us/site-transfer - Sam [image: OnSite Energy] Sam Haraldson Operations Specialist -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed May 6 12:46:10 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 16:46:10 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The included CTs are good for about 100amp wire. I did a search for a compatible CT for 200 amp & found it months ago but cannot recall where. I would contact Fortress. Good time for this Question: are CTs compatible across the board inverter to inverter? Is a 200amp CT for one inverter OK on another inverter? _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: William Miller via RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 20:02:33 +0000 Size: 11498 URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed May 6 13:50:10 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 13:50:10 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All- My original problem with the transfer site link was the customer number. My Solaredge engineer said it was my vendor number, but that is not true. And initially, it would not accept my contact email which I’ve been using for years with them in order to look up my customer number. I had to create a customer number for myself, as if I were an end user, (its a link directly under the cust# input line) including a new email contact, even though I have dozens of Solaredge systems on the SE portal. Once that was accomplished, I was able to transfer the site to someone who already had a customer number. *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 On Wed, May 6, 2026 at 9:08 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The process David suggested works well. I've used it twice recently and > it sometimes requires diligence but hasn't needed customer service > escalation. As the installer, double-check your "Account ID" before the > client enters it into the form as you may have more than one. The client > can upload a document proving home ownership instead of providing the site > ID. > > https://www.solaredge.com/us/site-transfer > > - Sam > > [image: OnSite Energy] > > Sam Haraldson > Operations Specialist > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed May 6 13:54:26 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 13:54:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The last 12 Kw envy I installed, two months ago, came with a 300 amp rating printed right on the CT’s. I can vouch for the fact they fit across 4/0 wire with room to spare. *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 On Wed, May 6, 2026 at 12:48 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The included CTs are good for about 100amp wire. I did a search for a > compatible CT for 200 amp & found it months ago but cannot recall where. I > would contact Fortress. > > > > Good time for this Question: are CTs compatible across the board inverter > to inverter? Is a 200amp CT for one inverter OK on another inverter? > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: William Miller via RE-wrenches > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: William Miller > Bcc: > Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 20:02:33 +0000 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire > Friends: > > The included CTs are too small. Anyone else face this problem? > > TIA. > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0492.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1547200 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed May 6 14:38:22 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 11:38:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This install is an eRnvy 8. It comes with a 100 amp/100mA CTs. That ratio is 1000/1. The CT you show is a 300/1. They are therefore not interchangeable. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Wed, May 6, 2026 at 10:58 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The last 12 Kw envy I installed, two months ago, came with a 300 amp > rating printed right on the CT’s. I can vouch for the fact they fit across > 4/0 wire with room to spare. > > > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > > On Wed, May 6, 2026 at 12:48 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> The included CTs are good for about 100amp wire. I did a search for a >> compatible CT for 200 amp & found it months ago but cannot recall where. I >> would contact Fortress. >> >> >> >> Good time for this Question: are CTs compatible across the board inverter >> to inverter? Is a 200amp CT for one inverter OK on another inverter? >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! >> >> C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com >> >> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com >> >> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: William Miller via RE-wrenches >> To: RE-wrenches >> Cc: William Miller >> Bcc: >> Date: Tue, 5 May 2026 20:02:33 +0000 >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy CTs on 200 amp wire >> Friends: >> >> The included CTs are too small. Anyone else face this problem? >> >> TIA. >> >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0492.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1547200 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed May 6 18:00:36 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 18:00:36 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Multi-Orientation PVWATTS Calculator Message-ID: I'm honestly not sure if this exists somewhere else, other than in software like OpenSolar and paid design software that uses the PVWATT API. So I built a web app that does just that. You can enter as many orientations as desired and get a combined result. It includes the raw data that matches PVWATTS and a simple financial model. You're welcome to use it. https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/pvwatts Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed May 6 18:19:48 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 18:19:48 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Contact In-Reply-To: <98685CC7-6C8A-4AB9-B6DA-7D5EEA31067A@solarwork.com> References: <98685CC7-6C8A-4AB9-B6DA-7D5EEA31067A@solarwork.com> Message-ID: This is the exact email I received from SolarEdge (personal information redacted): ----------- This is regarding your inverter SN: XXXXXXXXX-0E and here is your case number: 6728929 This inverter is currently on site: LastName, FirstName TSPXXXXXX which is under company Titan Solar Power. You will have to take over the site and disable the inverter from the site and add it to the new monitoring site you have created. If you want us to do that then we will need and email from the original installer company ----------- But I can't take over the site, and Titan Solar is out of business. So they have given me no options, are are completely unresponsive after multiple emails and days of waiting. This is totally unacceptable customer service. I would call, but I can only understand about 25% of the people who answer the phone there (I have a hearing disability, and the thick accents are very hard to understand). Chat is useless - they tell me I have to call. I recall a similar thread a while back where Wrenches had significantly different experiences with SolarEdge. I find that remarkable. I wonder why that is. Are we getting directed to different call centers, perhaps? Very strange. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, May 6, 2026 at 8:51 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Not true Jason we have inherited a system from a company that is defunct. > It was a matter of going through and collecting all the relevant model and > serial numbers and we went through a minor process. This was a year back. > It wasn’t too complicated, but we had to jump through a couple of hoops. > SolarEdge was actually pretty helpful. > Sent from my iPad > > On May 5, 2026, at 7:26 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Jason, > Please contact me off list. > > I just went through this last week. And even my inside tech could not make > it work. Their transfer procedure is totally f'ed up. > > Both you and the customer must sign up for a new "customer" number. Then > the online paperwork will be accepted and create a transfer case #. > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2026 at 8:47 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with >> their abysmal customer service department? >> >> I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients >> monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to >> me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. >> >> The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. >> >> SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are >> still in business. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Wed May 6 23:24:09 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 20:24:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge Contact In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I stopped using SolarEdge about 6 years ago. The product wasn't bad... but I did have some failures to deal with, as with any new product. It was the customer service, or lack of such, that drove me away. What I did find out worked best back then was using the chat feature... would never get an answer to email, or phone, but the chat would usually get an answer within 15 to 20 minutes. I still won't use them, for the customer service and some other reasons. Which is too bad, because the technology was a pretty interesting concept. Zeke On Tue, May 5, 2026, 5:44?PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Does anyone have a good inside SolarEdge contact that can assist me with > their abysmal customer service department? > > I was just told that the only way to get access to a new clients > monitoring system is to get the original contractor to turn it over to > me. That original contractor? The bankrupt Titan Solar. > > The homeowner was never granted monitoring access years ago. > > SolarEdge has become impossible to work with. I don't know how they are > still in business. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Sat May 9 10:00:09 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 08:00:09 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 Message-ID: For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share techniques and or equipment methods? I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12” of clearance. Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat May 9 12:11:34 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 09:11:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <356c945e85619d749a01ec749b4f5270@mail.gmail.com> Jeremy: Attached is a photo of how we use a come-along for these types of lifting. The goal is to avoid the loss of lifting range if the come-along were hanging down from the strut. If it is not obvious, that is 1-5/8 strut on the ceiling. The strut is in compression. Of course the attachments for the strut need to be robust enough to support the load. The eyes need to resist side loading. A shouldered eye is desirable for this capability. The home-made contraption on top of the Envy inverter is essentially a spreader-bar. The intention is to direct the loads parallel to the side of the inverter to prevent the high vector loads realize if using a sling. Lifting heavy items is a part of this trade. I have invested in a forklift, gantry crane and a lot of chain hoists, slings, heavy dollies and etc. over the years. There has been a lot of innovation. I should write an article. William William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *All Solar via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2026 7:00 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* All Solar *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share techniques and or equipment methods? I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12” of clearance. Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Lifting.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 59352 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat May 9 13:03:13 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 10:03:13 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: <356c945e85619d749a01ec749b4f5270@mail.gmail.com> References: <356c945e85619d749a01ec749b4f5270@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey wrenches, I use a lifting table, still takes some muscle but works much better than starting from the ground, just used it yesterday to lift a solark 18 k alone. Funtimes On Sat, May 9, 2026, 9:17 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jeremy: > > > > Attached is a photo of how we use a come-along for these types of > lifting. The goal is to avoid the loss of lifting range if the come-along > were hanging down from the strut. If it is not obvious, that is 1-5/8 > strut on the ceiling. The strut is in compression. Of course the > attachments for the strut need to be robust enough to support the load. > The eyes need to resist side loading. A shouldered eye is desirable for > this capability. > > > > The home-made contraption on top of the Envy inverter is essentially a > spreader-bar. The intention is to direct the loads parallel to the side of > the inverter to prevent the high vector loads realize if using a sling. > > > > Lifting heavy items is a part of this trade. I have invested in a > forklift, gantry crane and a lot of chain hoists, slings, heavy dollies and > etc. over the years. There has been a lot of innovation. I should write > an article. > > > > William > > > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > www.millersolar.com > > CA License C-10 77398 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *All Solar via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2026 7:00 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* All Solar > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 > > > > For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share > techniques and or equipment methods? > > I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the > battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12” > of clearance. > > Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Sat May 9 13:26:05 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 10:26:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Other options are a lifting dolly(relatively expensive) or harbor freight has a cheap hydraulic cart that will get you up about 4'(maybe not high enough for this particular application but great for getting equipment to tailgate level. I like William's strut idea. Nice one! On Sat, May 9, 2026, 7:02 AM All Solar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share > techniques and or equipment methods? > I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the > battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12” > of clearance. > Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat May 9 13:44:41 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 10:44:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is some good bed-time reading for anyone in the trades: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27029.Moving_Heavy_Things William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Sat, May 9, 2026 at 10:26 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Other options are a lifting dolly(relatively expensive) or harbor freight > has a cheap hydraulic cart that will get you up about 4'(maybe not high > enough for this particular application but great for getting equipment to > tailgate level. I like William's strut idea. Nice one! > > > > > > On Sat, May 9, 2026, 7:02 AM All Solar via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share >> techniques and or equipment methods? >> I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the >> battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12” >> of clearance. >> Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> All Solar Inc. >> Penrose CO >> 719-276-4954 >> Established 1998 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sat May 9 17:01:45 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 14:01:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of my installers in western CO uses a lifting dolly -- he does a lot of double stacked setups with 6 to 12 batteries in a system, with lower row of batteries 2 or 3 inches off the ground and an upper row of batteries about 3 feet off the ground. EG4 sells a lifting dolly especially made for their wallmount batteries for about $1100, and Vevor has a few models of lifting dollies for around $400. They are commonly used for woodstoves and safes and boilers and such as well, not just batteries. Zeke > For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share > techniques and or equipment methods? > I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the > battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12? > of clearance. > Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Ken at commonwealthsolar.com Sat May 9 17:21:18 2026 From: Ken at commonwealthsolar.com (Ken Schaal) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 17:21:18 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In.years past, installing assempled Trace power panels, we used 2 farm jacks with a 2x4 between them...just went.low enough to.get under the bottom SW 6048, then slide them up the wall and bolt to wall. Ken Schaal Commonwealth Solar Ll On Sat, May 9, 2026, 5:04 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > One of my installers in western CO uses a lifting dolly -- he does a lot > of double stacked setups with 6 to 12 batteries in a system, with lower row > of batteries 2 or 3 inches off the ground and an upper row of > batteries about 3 feet off the ground. > > EG4 sells a lifting dolly especially made for their wallmount batteries > for about $1100, and Vevor has a few models of lifting dollies for around > $400. They are commonly used for woodstoves and safes and boilers and such > as well, not just batteries. > > Zeke > > >> For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share >> techniques and or equipment methods? >> I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the >> battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12? >> of clearance. >> Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> All Solar Inc. >> Penrose CO >> 719-276-4954 >> Established 1998 > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alpineelectric at cruzio.com Sat May 9 20:30:39 2026 From: alpineelectric at cruzio.com (Brian McCain) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 17:30:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 Message-ID: <2f74a358-08d3-410c-89cf-3c99cce5822d@cruzio.com> We recently mounted two Enphase 5P batteries close to a ceiling with 10 foot tall walls with a Terex GL-8  (also there is a GL-12) with 400lb and 350lb capacity respectively.  Worked impressively well in a very tight mechanical room, should be available at a local equipment rental for around $100/day.  Specifically made for the application. -- Brian McCain Alpine Electric Power, Inc., Lic. #778668 Kohler Power Systems Authorized Generator Dealer PO Box 212 Soquel, CA 95073 831-475-1155 phone/fax 831-588-7291 mobile alpineelectric at cruzio.com www.alpineelectricpower.com From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun May 10 10:02:41 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 10 May 2026 10:02:41 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We use our Tesla lifting dolly. But I, too, and looking for better options. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sat, May 9, 2026 at 10:03 AM All Solar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share > techniques and or equipment methods? > I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the > battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with 10-12” > of clearance. > Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Sat May 9 20:54:30 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Sat, 9 May 2026 20:54:30 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lifting the PowerFlo 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The PF16 is pretty easy to move with a couple of "J hooks" off of ratchet straps that you can get at any truckstop. The J hooks perfectly fit into the lifting handles on the side of the battery. You can use a pipe and lift the battery. Use the included template to perfectly place the mounting brackets. The wife and I have moved and installed many of them without issue using the straps and a pipe and we are old. See attached. Logan On Sat, May 9, 2026 at 5:22 PM Ken Schaal via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > In.years past, installing assempled Trace power panels, we used 2 farm > jacks with a 2x4 between them...just went.low enough to.get under the > bottom SW 6048, then slide them up the wall and bolt to wall. > Ken Schaal Commonwealth Solar > Ll > > On Sat, May 9, 2026, 5:04 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> One of my installers in western CO uses a lifting dolly -- he does a lot >> of double stacked setups with 6 to 12 batteries in a system, with lower row >> of batteries 2 or 3 inches off the ground and an upper row of >> batteries about 3 feet off the ground. >> >> EG4 sells a lifting dolly especially made for their wallmount batteries >> for about $1100, and Vevor has a few models of lifting dollies for around >> $400. They are commonly used for woodstoves and safes and boilers and such >> as well, not just batteries. >> >> Zeke >> >> >>> For those of you that have wall mounted the PF 16 battery, can you share >>> techniques and or equipment methods? >>> I can get my engine hoist into the building and I was hoping to sling the >>> battery to get it up there. Plan is to mount one above another with >>> 10-12? >>> of clearance. >>> Does MidnitePower make anything for this ? >>> >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> All Solar Inc. >>> Penrose CO >>> 719-276-4954 >>> Established 1998 >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: strap.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1277789 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun May 10 15:19:31 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 10 May 2026 13:19:31 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP Message-ID: <2FB2EBEF-72F1-466C-AB5E-892A98F042FA@gmail.com> Hi all I had someone ask me about what eco worthy is selling. A low temp LFP battery. They say charging at -4°F Is this actually something new, a new chemistry or just marketing? Thanks. Jay From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Sun May 10 17:23:16 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Sun, 10 May 2026 14:23:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know this particular one, but what I've seen for a lot of LFP with the built in heating pads is that they can charge down to -4ºF. But, what this means, is that with the heater running, it can keep the battery warm enough to charge (above 32ºF) when the ambient temperature is -4ºF. This is not, in my mind, really a cold weather battery, but rather one that in the right conditions could be used where it might occasionally get cold. Like in an unheated garage that might bet below freezing occasionally, or if someone leaves the door open by mistake. Or for ourdoor use in moderate climate that might get into the 20's or teens a few times a year. But not for outdoor use on a mountaintop radio repeater or remote cabin in Montana where it's in the single digits for weeks. Insulating the battery will obviously help a lot in trapping what heat that the built in heaters give off -- I've seen the heated ones work okay when in a highly insulated box (just like we used to build for lead acid all the time) and isolated from the concrete floor. But it also depends on the particular control logic, and whether you have grid power. If you have grid power to keep them warm they can work pretty well. For off grid, the heat is needed the most right when you have the lowest insolation, which isn't a good situation. And for control logic, I've seen two variations -- one is to run the heater from the battery, which insures that it stays warm... but risks tanking the battery fairly quickly (in a few days) from the heater load alone. The other variation is to only run the heater when there is a charging source for the battery -- which doesn't risk draining the battery, but also means that overnight in an off grid system there is no heat input, making good insulation around the battery even more important -- to keep the temperature above 32ºF by morning so it can accept a charge then -- otherwise you are limited to the charging source only running the heater for a while (several hours?) till the battery gets back up above 32ºF and can accept a charge, and by then you may have wasted a lot of your short winter sun hours. Another thing to consider is what is the lifespan of the heating pad? If it's 3000 hours, then that will last a long time -- similar to the battery lifespan of 15 to 20 years -- when used a few hours a day during a few weeks a year. But if used in a climate where it needs to operate 24 hours a day for 3 or 4 months out of the year, the heating pad will wear out long before the lifespan of the battery. And then it's no longer a heated battery, and it's usually not possible to replace it, as it's built into thebattery too deeply. If you have a situation where you are doing a lot of heating, then using a external heating source in an insulated box can be a much better option. If you are doing open loop operation of the LFP battery, having built in internal heaters can also be problematic. Both because it can throw off the accuracy of an external AH counting SOC meter, and because some charging equipment will not respond appropriately to the battery limiting incoming power to that required to run the heater when the temperature gets below 32ºF. Some charging sources will just rise to absorb voltage till the batttery warms and starts accepting a charge, when it falls to battery voltage. But some sources can spike and cause equipment damage if the charging FET's or relays on the battery are opened to prevent charging at low temperatures. For actual low temperature operation, lithium titanate is the only technology I've seen that is really good -- full rate charge and discharge at -40ºF. Sodium ion can take lower temperatures than LFP, but not as cold as LTO. The products for both of these that I've seen have not been commercial successes due to much higher cost than LFP. Why by a real cold weather LTO battery for $1/watthr when you can get a heated LFP battery that claims to work at -4ºF, for only $0.20/watthr. Not understanding the limitations of the heated LFP batteries means that few people bought the LTO batteries instead. Zeke Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 10 May 2026 13:19:31 -0600 > From: Jay > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP > Message-ID: <2FB2EBEF-72F1-466C-AB5E-892A98F042FA at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi all > > I had someone ask me about what eco worthy is selling. A low temp LFP > battery. They say charging at -4?F > > Is this actually something new, a new chemistry or just marketing? > > Thanks. > > Jay > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon May 11 08:53:39 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 11 May 2026 06:53:39 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CEE7763-952D-4B42-9538-AD4EC0F46B63@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: eco-worthy-cubix-100-pro-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery-bluetooth-wifi-low-temp-charge-10-years-warranty-lithium-battery-eco-worthy-3996703.jpg Type: image/png Size: 95785 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Mon May 11 10:30:04 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Mon, 11 May 2026 07:30:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP In-Reply-To: <9CEE7763-952D-4B42-9538-AD4EC0F46B63@gmail.com> References: <9CEE7763-952D-4B42-9538-AD4EC0F46B63@gmail.com> Message-ID: Interesting. It is actually a different battery construction than normal LFP it appears. I had not seen that before. My understanding was that the graphite anode was a big portion of the low temperature problem, but they do mention optimized anode and cathode, in addition to a different electrolyte. I do note that it has to be used in closed loop operation in order to properly limit the current at the low temperatures. Zeke On Mon, May 11, 2026 at 5:53 AM Jay wrote: > Hi Zeke > > Here is the link to the battery. I should have included that no heater in > this one. > > In the manual it shows reduced charging/discharge rates at colder temps > but they still seem lower than I’ve ever heard of. > > [image: > eco-worthy-cubix-100-pro-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery-bluetooth-wifi-low-temp-charge-10-years-warranty-lithium-battery-eco-worthy-3996703.jpg] > > Cubix 100 Pro 48V 100AH Lithium Battery | Low-Temp Charge | Eco-Worthy > > eco-worthy.com > > > > > > On May 10, 2026, at 3:24 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > I don't know this particular one, but what I've seen for a lot of LFP with > the built in heating pads is that they can charge down to -4ºF. But, what > this means, is that with the heater running, it can keep the battery warm > enough to charge (above 32ºF) when the ambient temperature is -4ºF. This > is not, in my mind, really a cold weather battery, but rather one that in > the right conditions could be used where it might occasionally get cold. > Like in an unheated garage that might bet below freezing occasionally, or > if someone leaves the door open by mistake. Or for ourdoor use in moderate > climate that might get into the 20's or teens a few times a year. But not > for outdoor use on a mountaintop radio repeater or remote cabin in Montana > where it's in the single digits for weeks. > > Insulating the battery will obviously help a lot in trapping what heat > that the built in heaters give off -- I've seen the heated ones work okay > when in a highly insulated box (just like we used to build for lead acid > all the time) and isolated from the concrete floor. But it also depends on > the particular control logic, and whether you have grid power. If you have > grid power to keep them warm they can work pretty well. For off grid, the > heat is needed the most right when you have the lowest insolation, which > isn't a good situation. And for control logic, I've seen two variations > -- one is to run the heater from the battery, which insures that it stays > warm... but risks tanking the battery fairly quickly (in a few days) from > the heater load alone. The other variation is to only run the heater when > there is a charging source for the battery -- which doesn't risk draining > the battery, but also means that overnight in an off grid system there is > no heat input, making good insulation around the battery even more > important -- to keep the temperature above 32ºF by morning so it can accept > a charge then -- otherwise you are limited to the charging source only > running the heater for a while (several hours?) till the battery gets back > up above 32ºF and can accept a charge, and by then you may have wasted a > lot of your short winter sun hours. > > Another thing to consider is what is the lifespan of the heating pad? If > it's 3000 hours, then that will last a long time -- similar to the battery > lifespan of 15 to 20 years -- when used a few hours a day during a few > weeks a year. But if used in a climate where it needs to operate 24 hours > a day for 3 or 4 months out of the year, the heating pad will wear out long > before the lifespan of the battery. And then it's no longer a heated > battery, and it's usually not possible to replace it, as it's built into > thebattery too deeply. If you have a situation where you are doing a lot > of heating, then using a external heating source in an insulated box can be > a much better option. > > If you are doing open loop operation of the LFP battery, having built in > internal heaters can also be problematic. Both because it can throw off > the accuracy of an external AH counting SOC meter, and because some > charging equipment will not respond appropriately to the battery limiting > incoming power to that required to run the heater when the temperature gets > below 32ºF. Some charging sources will just rise to absorb voltage till > the batttery warms and starts accepting a charge, when it falls to battery > voltage. But some sources can spike and cause equipment damage if the > charging FET's or relays on the battery are opened to prevent charging at > low temperatures. > > For actual low temperature operation, lithium titanate is the only > technology I've seen that is really good -- full rate charge and discharge > at -40ºF. Sodium ion can take lower temperatures than LFP, but not as cold > as LTO. The products for both of these that I've seen have not been > commercial successes due to much higher cost than LFP. Why by a real cold > weather LTO battery for $1/watthr when you can get a heated LFP battery > that claims to work at -4ºF, for only $0.20/watthr. Not understanding the > limitations of the heated LFP batteries means that few people bought the > LTO batteries instead. > > Zeke > > > Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 10 May 2026 13:19:31 -0600 >> From: Jay >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP >> Message-ID: <2FB2EBEF-72F1-466C-AB5E-892A98F042FA at gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> Hi all >> >> I had someone ask me about what eco worthy is selling. A low temp LFP >> battery. They say charging at -4?F >> >> Is this actually something new, a new chemistry or just marketing? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jay >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: eco-worthy-cubix-100-pro-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery-bluetooth-wifi-low-temp-charge-10-years-warranty-lithium-battery-eco-worthy-3996703.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 95785 bytes Desc: not available URL: From larry at starlightsolar.com Mon May 11 11:01:36 2026 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (Starlight) Date: Mon, 11 May 2026 09:01:36 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP In-Reply-To: References: <9CEE7763-952D-4B42-9538-AD4EC0F46B63@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87AD3F01-B0D4-4190-8D44-8178C336ACBC@starlightsolar.com> Jay, LFP battery manufacturing in China is a real mixed bag. There are a large number of rejected battery cells that are used in the cheap batteries like seen on Amazon. I have over 2300 emails from such companies that want me to sell their batteries. Personally I would not trust any battery without a verified UL 1973 certification. Larry Crutcher On May 11, 2026, at 8:30 AM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: Interesting. It is actually a different battery construction than normal LFP it appears. I had not seen that before. My understanding was that the graphite anode was a big portion of the low temperature problem, but they do mention optimized anode and cathode, in addition to a different electrolyte. I do note that it has to be used in closed loop operation in order to properly limit the current at the low temperatures. Zeke On Mon, May 11, 2026 at 5:53 AM Jay > wrote: > Hi Zeke > > Here is the link to the battery. I should have included that no heater in this one. > > In the manual it shows reduced charging/discharge rates at colder temps but they still seem lower than I’ve ever heard of. > > > Cubix 100 Pro 48V 100AH Lithium Battery | Low-Temp Charge | Eco-Worthy > eco-worthy.com > Cubix 100 Pro 48V 100AH Lithium Battery | Low-Temp Charge | Eco-Worthy > eco-worthy.com > >> On May 10, 2026, at 3:24 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> >>  >> I don't know this particular one, but what I've seen for a lot of LFP with the built in heating pads is that they can charge down to -4ºF. But, what this means, is that with the heater running, it can keep the battery warm enough to charge (above 32ºF) when the ambient temperature is -4ºF. This is not, in my mind, really a cold weather battery, but rather one that in the right conditions could be used where it might occasionally get cold. Like in an unheated garage that might bet below freezing occasionally, or if someone leaves the door open by mistake. Or for ourdoor use in moderate climate that might get into the 20's or teens a few times a year. But not for outdoor use on a mountaintop radio repeater or remote cabin in Montana where it's in the single digits for weeks. >> >> Insulating the battery will obviously help a lot in trapping what heat that the built in heaters give off -- I've seen the heated ones work okay when in a highly insulated box (just like we used to build for lead acid all the time) and isolated from the concrete floor. But it also depends on the particular control logic, and whether you have grid power. If you have grid power to keep them warm they can work pretty well. For off grid, the heat is needed the most right when you have the lowest insolation, which isn't a good situation. And for control logic, I've seen two variations -- one is to run the heater from the battery, which insures that it stays warm... but risks tanking the battery fairly quickly (in a few days) from the heater load alone. The other variation is to only run the heater when there is a charging source for the battery -- which doesn't risk draining the battery, but also means that overnight in an off grid system there is no heat input, making good insulation around the battery even more important -- to keep the temperature above 32ºF by morning so it can accept a charge then -- otherwise you are limited to the charging source only running the heater for a while (several hours?) till the battery gets back up above 32ºF and can accept a charge, and by then you may have wasted a lot of your short winter sun hours. >> >> Another thing to consider is what is the lifespan of the heating pad? If it's 3000 hours, then that will last a long time -- similar to the battery lifespan of 15 to 20 years -- when used a few hours a day during a few weeks a year. But if used in a climate where it needs to operate 24 hours a day for 3 or 4 months out of the year, the heating pad will wear out long before the lifespan of the battery. And then it's no longer a heated battery, and it's usually not possible to replace it, as it's built into thebattery too deeply. If you have a situation where you are doing a lot of heating, then using a external heating source in an insulated box can be a much better option. >> >> If you are doing open loop operation of the LFP battery, having built in internal heaters can also be problematic. Both because it can throw off the accuracy of an external AH counting SOC meter, and because some charging equipment will not respond appropriately to the battery limiting incoming power to that required to run the heater when the temperature gets below 32ºF. Some charging sources will just rise to absorb voltage till the batttery warms and starts accepting a charge, when it falls to battery voltage. But some sources can spike and cause equipment damage if the charging FET's or relays on the battery are opened to prevent charging at low temperatures. >> >> For actual low temperature operation, lithium titanate is the only technology I've seen that is really good -- full rate charge and discharge at -40ºF. Sodium ion can take lower temperatures than LFP, but not as cold as LTO. The products for both of these that I've seen have not been commercial successes due to much higher cost than LFP. Why by a real cold weather LTO battery for $1/watthr when you can get a heated LFP battery that claims to work at -4ºF, for only $0.20/watthr. Not understanding the limitations of the heated LFP batteries means that few people bought the LTO batteries instead. >> >> Zeke >> >> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sun, 10 May 2026 13:19:31 -0600 >>> From: Jay > >>> To: RE-wrenches > >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP >>> Message-ID: <2FB2EBEF-72F1-466C-AB5E-892A98F042FA at gmail.com > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>> >>> Hi all >>> >>> I had someone ask me about what eco worthy is selling. A low temp LFP battery. They say charging at -4?F >>> >>> Is this actually something new, a new chemistry or just marketing? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Jay >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Mon May 11 18:20:59 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Mon, 11 May 2026 18:20:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP In-Reply-To: <9CEE7763-952D-4B42-9538-AD4EC0F46B63@gmail.com> References: <9CEE7763-952D-4B42-9538-AD4EC0F46B63@gmail.com> Message-ID: Adam Delay did a review of this battery on his YouTube channel. I think there are a couple more reviews out there also. On Mon, May 11, 2026 at 8:57 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Zeke > > Here is the link to the battery. I should have included that no heater in > this one. > > In the manual it shows reduced charging/discharge rates at colder temps > but they still seem lower than I’ve ever heard of. > > [image: > eco-worthy-cubix-100-pro-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery-bluetooth-wifi-low-temp-charge-10-years-warranty-lithium-battery-eco-worthy-3996703.jpg] > > Cubix 100 Pro 48V 100AH Lithium Battery | Low-Temp Charge | Eco-Worthy > > eco-worthy.com > > > > > > On May 10, 2026, at 3:24 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > I don't know this particular one, but what I've seen for a lot of LFP with > the built in heating pads is that they can charge down to -4ºF. But, what > this means, is that with the heater running, it can keep the battery warm > enough to charge (above 32ºF) when the ambient temperature is -4ºF. This > is not, in my mind, really a cold weather battery, but rather one that in > the right conditions could be used where it might occasionally get cold. > Like in an unheated garage that might bet below freezing occasionally, or > if someone leaves the door open by mistake. Or for ourdoor use in moderate > climate that might get into the 20's or teens a few times a year. But not > for outdoor use on a mountaintop radio repeater or remote cabin in Montana > where it's in the single digits for weeks. > > Insulating the battery will obviously help a lot in trapping what heat > that the built in heaters give off -- I've seen the heated ones work okay > when in a highly insulated box (just like we used to build for lead acid > all the time) and isolated from the concrete floor. But it also depends on > the particular control logic, and whether you have grid power. If you have > grid power to keep them warm they can work pretty well. For off grid, the > heat is needed the most right when you have the lowest insolation, which > isn't a good situation. And for control logic, I've seen two variations > -- one is to run the heater from the battery, which insures that it stays > warm... but risks tanking the battery fairly quickly (in a few days) from > the heater load alone. The other variation is to only run the heater when > there is a charging source for the battery -- which doesn't risk draining > the battery, but also means that overnight in an off grid system there is > no heat input, making good insulation around the battery even more > important -- to keep the temperature above 32ºF by morning so it can accept > a charge then -- otherwise you are limited to the charging source only > running the heater for a while (several hours?) till the battery gets back > up above 32ºF and can accept a charge, and by then you may have wasted a > lot of your short winter sun hours. > > Another thing to consider is what is the lifespan of the heating pad? If > it's 3000 hours, then that will last a long time -- similar to the battery > lifespan of 15 to 20 years -- when used a few hours a day during a few > weeks a year. But if used in a climate where it needs to operate 24 hours > a day for 3 or 4 months out of the year, the heating pad will wear out long > before the lifespan of the battery. And then it's no longer a heated > battery, and it's usually not possible to replace it, as it's built into > thebattery too deeply. If you have a situation where you are doing a lot > of heating, then using a external heating source in an insulated box can be > a much better option. > > If you are doing open loop operation of the LFP battery, having built in > internal heaters can also be problematic. Both because it can throw off > the accuracy of an external AH counting SOC meter, and because some > charging equipment will not respond appropriately to the battery limiting > incoming power to that required to run the heater when the temperature gets > below 32ºF. Some charging sources will just rise to absorb voltage till > the batttery warms and starts accepting a charge, when it falls to battery > voltage. But some sources can spike and cause equipment damage if the > charging FET's or relays on the battery are opened to prevent charging at > low temperatures. > > For actual low temperature operation, lithium titanate is the only > technology I've seen that is really good -- full rate charge and discharge > at -40ºF. Sodium ion can take lower temperatures than LFP, but not as cold > as LTO. The products for both of these that I've seen have not been > commercial successes due to much higher cost than LFP. Why by a real cold > weather LTO battery for $1/watthr when you can get a heated LFP battery > that claims to work at -4ºF, for only $0.20/watthr. Not understanding the > limitations of the heated LFP batteries means that few people bought the > LTO batteries instead. > > Zeke > > > Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 10 May 2026 13:19:31 -0600 >> From: Jay >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low temp LFP >> Message-ID: <2FB2EBEF-72F1-466C-AB5E-892A98F042FA at gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> Hi all >> >> I had someone ask me about what eco worthy is selling. A low temp LFP >> battery. They say charging at -4?F >> >> Is this actually something new, a new chemistry or just marketing? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jay >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: eco-worthy-cubix-100-pro-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery-bluetooth-wifi-low-temp-charge-10-years-warranty-lithium-battery-eco-worthy-3996703.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 95785 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon May 18 09:09:27 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 09:09:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule Message-ID: The logic of this rule for calculating PV amperage seems a little off to me. - It is a calculation that is set in stone as a bedrock truth of the solar industry. (1.25 X 1.25 = 1.56). The multiplier of 1.25 for a continuous load is relevant for sure. To multiply again by another 1.25 seems excessive. Although it is certainly true that modules put out considerably more power when it is cold out, in my experience that is almost all due to the increase in voltage. The amperage goes up a little, but no where near 25%. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. Are there circumstances where the amperage of a PV module can go up by 25%? Thanks, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Mon May 18 09:23:54 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 13:23:54 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: VERY High elevation 10,000'+ , with high wind & very low temps. Not normal installation definitely a "Special" situation. I agree in 95% of installations 1.56 is an excessive. _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 13:09:27 +0000 Size: 14698 URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Mon May 18 09:30:49 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 06:30:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The standard assumed irradiance for math purposes has always been 1000W/m2. I’ve seen days where base-line was 1200 on my Daystar meter, and elevation was barely above sea level, say 500ft, max 1000ft. I imagine Edge of cloud effect on a day like that could send the current as high as 1.56 David On Mon, May 18, 2026 at 6:24 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > VERY High elevation 10,000’+ , with high wind & very low temps. Not normal > installation definitely a “Special” situation. I agree in 95% of > installations 1.56 is an excessive. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: "drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org" < > drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 13:09:27 +0000 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule > > The logic of this rule for calculating PV amperage seems a little off to > me. - It is a calculation that is set in stone as a bedrock truth of the > solar industry. (1.25 X 1.25 = 1.56). > > The multiplier of 1.25 for a continuous load is relevant for sure. To > multiply again by another 1.25 seems excessive. > > Although it is certainly true that modules put out considerably more power > when it is cold out, in my experience that is almost all due to the > increase in voltage. The amperage goes up a little, but no where near 25%. > > Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. Are there > circumstances where the amperage of a PV module can go up by 25%? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon May 18 10:27:06 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 16:27:06 +0200 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I agree with David. I think the first 1.25 is for continuous use, and the second is for when irradiance is higher than the standard 1000w/m2. I've also seen irradiance around 1200 in cloudy central NY. On Mon, May 18, 2026, 3:36 PM David Quattro via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The standard assumed irradiance for math purposes has always been > 1000W/m2. I’ve seen days where base-line was 1200 on my Daystar meter, and > elevation was barely above sea level, say 500ft, max 1000ft. I imagine Edge > of cloud effect on a day like that could send the current as high as 1.56 > David > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2026 at 6:24 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> VERY High elevation 10,000’+ , with high wind & very low temps. Not >> normal installation definitely a “Special” situation. I agree in 95% of >> installations 1.56 is an excessive. >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! >> >> C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com >> >> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com >> >> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > > >> To: RE-wrenches >> Cc: "drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org" < >> drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org> >> Bcc: >> Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 13:09:27 +0000 >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule >> >> The logic of this rule for calculating PV amperage seems a little off to >> me. - It is a calculation that is set in stone as a bedrock truth of the >> solar industry. (1.25 X 1.25 = 1.56). >> >> The multiplier of 1.25 for a continuous load is relevant for sure. To >> multiply again by another 1.25 seems excessive. >> >> Although it is certainly true that modules put out considerably more >> power when it is cold out, in my experience that is almost all due to the >> increase in voltage. The amperage goes up a little, but no where near 25%. >> >> Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. Are there >> circumstances where the amperage of a PV module can go up by 25%? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Drake >> >> >> *Drake Chamberlin* >> >> *Athens Electric LLC* >> >> *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* >> >> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon May 18 11:40:25 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 09:40:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you use 100% duty rated breakers such as breakers sold my Midnite, you can ignore the 1.25 multiplier for continuous duty. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 5/18/2026 8:27 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > I agree with David. I think the first 1.25 is for continuous use, and > the second is for when irradiance is higher than the standard > 1000w/m2. I've also seen irradiance around 1200 in cloudy central NY. > > > On Mon, May 18, 2026, 3:36 PM David Quattro via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > The standard assumed irradiance for math purposes has always been > 1000W/m2. I’ve seen days where base-line was 1200 on my Daystar > meter, and elevation was barely above sea level, say 500ft, max > 1000ft. I imagine Edge of cloud effect on a day like that could > send the current as high as 1.56 > David > * > * > > > On Mon, May 18, 2026 at 6:24 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > VERY High elevation 10,000’+ , with high wind & very low > temps. Not normal installation definitely a “Special” > situation.  I agree in 95% of installations 1.56 is an excessive. > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003      E – dana at solarwork.com > > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com > www.solarwork.com > > /_“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”_/ > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches > > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: "drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org" > > Bcc: > Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 13:09:27 +0000 > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule > > The logic of this rule for calculating PV amperage seems a > little off to me. - It is a calculation that is set in stone > as a bedrock truth of the solar industry. (1.25 X 1.25 = 1.56). > The multiplier of 1.25 for a continuous load is relevant for > sure. To multiply again by another 1.25 seems excessive. > Although it is certainly true that modules put out > considerably more power when it is cold out, in my experience > that is almost all due to the increase in voltage. The > amperage goes up a little, but no where near 25%. > Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. > Are there circumstances where the amperage of a PV module can > go up by 25%? > Thanks, > Drake > > /Drake Chamberlin/ > > /Athens Electric LLC/ > > /Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/ > > /NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Mon May 18 16:26:08 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 13:26:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've definitely seen this. I regularly measured over 1200 watts/sq meter in clear day skies on my sites, and if you throw in some edge of cloud too... could get even more. I've heard ski resorts dealing with 1400 watts/sq meter on vertical windows of lodges facing a big snowy bowl. I'll try to dig up a graph from one of my sites with monitoring on it. I was often getting near STC voltage at the same time. These were high elevation (8,000 feet and up) sites in Colorado, no humid haze, thinner atmosphere, and often a bunch of snow reflection too. I would measure around 3.6kW peak AC output from a 3.3kW STC rated array at my house at 9,300 feet there (had it on a 3.8kW inverter -- I greatly disagree with certain inverter manufacturers recommendations for overpaneling, but that's a different topic). If you're closer to sea level or back east where the humidity blurs out the sun more, probably a lot less chance of it, except during good edge of cloud conditions -- which generally don't last longer than 5 or 10 minutes max -- not three hours like altitude/snow enhanced irradiance. I will say, the sun breaking through the clouds on a 95% humidity 70 degree day in DC felt hotter than any 95F day in the sun out west -- did not put an irradiance meter on it though. I have some rear facing irradiance monitors on some sites now, to get a better idea of how much gain we can really expect from bifacial modules. Be interested in seeing what they say over time. I've been doing another 1.2 or 1.25 factor when using bifacial modules in snow country, but not sure how realistic that is. Zeke > Are there circumstances where the amperage of a PV module can go up by > 25%? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at hurshtown.com Mon May 18 09:39:42 2026 From: mark at hurshtown.com (Mark Downing) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 13:39:42 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Back in the day, the old used Carrizo "Super Gold" 105W modules would do about 6 amps normally, but 10A plus on a cold Indiana day. I had 12V customers with 4 of these blowing 40A fuses. But that was years ago, in a different world. ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, May 18, 2026 9:09 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule The logic of this rule for calculating PV amperage seems a little off to me. - It is a calculation that is set in stone as a bedrock truth of the solar industry. (1.25 X 1.25 = 1.56). The multiplier of 1.25 for a continuous load is relevant for sure. To multiply again by another 1.25 seems excessive. Although it is certainly true that modules put out considerably more power when it is cold out, in my experience that is almost all due to the increase in voltage. The amperage goes up a little, but no where near 25%. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. Are there circumstances where the amperage of a PV module can go up by 25%? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- ________________________________ This email has been scanned for spam and viruses. Click here to report this email as spam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon May 18 22:12:41 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 18 May 2026 22:12:41 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5dcf29f5112b6e3e6f61789274edd3ca@redwoodalliance.org> 1400 W/Sq M would certainly do it! Thanks for all of your input. Drake --- On 2026-05-18 16:26, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > I've definitely seen this. I regularly measured over 1200 watts/sq > meter in clear day skies on my sites, and if you throw in some edge of > cloud too... could get even more. I've heard ski resorts dealing with > 1400 watts/sq meter on vertical windows of lodges facing a big snowy > bowl. I'll try to dig up a graph from one of my sites with monitoring > on it. I was often getting near STC voltage at the same time. These > were high elevation (8,000 feet and up) sites in Colorado, no humid > haze, thinner atmosphere, and often a bunch of snow reflection too. I > would measure around 3.6kW peak AC output from a 3.3kW STC rated array > at my house at 9,300 feet there (had it on a 3.8kW inverter -- I > greatly disagree with certain inverter manufacturers recommendations > for overpaneling, but that's a different topic). > > If you're closer to sea level or back east where the humidity blurs out > the sun more, probably a lot less chance of it, except during good edge > of cloud conditions -- which generally don't last longer than 5 or 10 > minutes max -- not three hours like altitude/snow enhanced irradiance. > I will say, the sun breaking through the clouds on a 95% humidity 70 > degree day in DC felt hotter than any 95F day in the sun out west -- > did not put an irradiance meter on it though. > > I have some rear facing irradiance monitors on some sites now, to get a > better idea of how much gain we can really expect from bifacial > modules. Be interested in seeing what they say over time. I've been > doing another 1.2 or 1.25 factor when using bifacial modules in snow > country, but not sure how realistic that is. > > Zeke > >> Are there circumstances where the amperage of a PV module can go up >> by 25%? > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lawrencesteven at gmail.com Tue May 19 09:23:51 2026 From: lawrencesteven at gmail.com (Steven Lawrence) Date: Tue, 19 May 2026 09:23:51 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 1.56 Rule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > I've seen over 1,000 W/m^2 in the northeast. I don't know if it lasted 3 hours, but I'd rather not have my fuses nuisance melt. This is where SAM helps as you can simulate the maximum 3 hour continuous current and use that as the basis of your design for current. It's the de facto method on utility scale projects. -Steven Lawrence -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From berkeleysolar at outlook.com Tue May 19 22:01:17 2026 From: berkeleysolar at outlook.com (Mark Frye) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 02:01:17 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GenStar Ready Relay - Trouble Seating Message-ID: Folks, I have been using a Genstar with a Ready Relay and have been struggling with the seating of the Ready Relay. I have been installing a wedge to try and keep it from rotating on the rail and a stop to keep it set up against the Genstar. None the less, I am still having systems where the relay is not functioning but starts to function when it is "wiggled". Has anyone had a similar experience or fix for this problem? Thanks, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From berkeleysolar at outlook.com Tue May 19 22:03:25 2026 From: berkeleysolar at outlook.com (Mark Frye) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 02:03:25 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GenStar Ready Relay - Trouble Seating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Folks, I have been using a Genstar with a Ready Relay and have been struggling with the seating of the Ready Relay. I have been installing a wedge to try and keep it from rotating on the rail and a stop to keep it set up against the Genstar. None the less, I am still having systems where the relay is not functioning but starts to function when it is "wiggled". Has anyone had a similar experience or fix for this problem? Thanks, Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Tue May 19 23:35:21 2026 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Tue, 19 May 2026 23:35:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ground mounts Message-ID: We have been using Nuance Osprey racking for ground mounts for a few years, with earth anchors for our attachments. Where there's decent, deep enough soul, this system works reasonably well and we don't need to mobilize any large equipment. This is a major advantage when working on more remote systems where the expense and logistics of large, heavy machines is less practical, especially for even larger residential sized systems. Unfortunately, working in northern Vermont doesn't usually afford us "decent" or deep enough soil, so we've struggled a lot with the earth anchors. Additionally, our local supplier of Osprey racks no longer deals with them so sourcing problems along with the installation hassles has pushed me to look for another, reasonably priced ground mount system. So I'm looking for suggestions of racks and attachment systems others have found useful. We are looking at helical piles, but of course they are expensive. If they are our best option, we will price accordingly, but they are not a sure bet around here either. All suggestions are welcomed! TIA, Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher LLC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed May 20 04:05:04 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 10:05:04 +0200 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ground mounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Howie, We also used Nuance for a while. I also had trouble sourcing it and have moved to using the Sunmodo SunTurf system with ground screws. I also was using the Nuance equipment to avoid needing large equipment, but I like the ground screws much better. It is not hard to find an excavator who can drive the ground screws. I find the installation process much quicker with the ground screws, even with the time to drive the screws. I am also working on a way to punch through shale, as we have a lot of that here in central NY. I have some jobs coming up in the next couple months where the shale is only a few feet down. If you are interested, I can let you know how we get through it. I am working on making a 3" bit to pre-drill the holes, but need to test that with our excavator. Cheers, Dave On Wed, May 20, 2026, 5:39 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We have been using Nuance Osprey racking for ground mounts for a few > years, with earth anchors for our attachments. Where there's decent, deep > enough soul, this system works reasonably well and we don't need to > mobilize any large equipment. This is a major advantage when working on > more remote systems where the expense and logistics of large, heavy > machines is less practical, especially for even larger residential sized > systems. > > Unfortunately, working in northern Vermont doesn't usually afford us > "decent" or deep enough soil, so we've struggled a lot with the earth > anchors. Additionally, our local supplier of Osprey racks no longer deals > with them so sourcing problems along with the installation hassles has > pushed me to look for another, reasonably priced ground mount system. > > So I'm looking for suggestions of racks and attachment systems others have > found useful. We are looking at helical piles, but of course they are > expensive. If they are our best option, we will price accordingly, but > they are not a sure bet around here either. > > All suggestions are welcomed! > TIA, > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed May 20 11:25:04 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 09:25:04 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony solar Message-ID: <3B5AD164-2210-40D4-8C3D-65A45E0E8E87@gmail.com> Hi all. I’m wondering what/if there is consensus about this. I just read Cali is approving 1200 watts into an outlet. Which seems absolutely dangerous. I haven’t been able to figure out how the utility deals with backfeed. Does the meter count up or down or do nothing? Just wondering Jay From tyronehouck at gmail.com Wed May 20 11:27:28 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 08:27:28 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation Message-ID: Greetings wrenches, I am looking at a job with an extreme pitch comp roof(60°) and figured I would reach out to see what other installers' experiences have been and what recommendations or best practices advice ones might have. It's rare that we do anything steeper than 45° so I would greatly appreciate any insight you guys may have! Sunny Regards, Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC CCB #204937 LRT #076 541-787-1366 tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed May 20 12:07:14 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 09:07:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tyrone: I have some experience with steep roofs. To keep this post short I will start with two recommendations: Scaffold the eaves. This gives you a place to stage materials and to rest your calves. It is a last resort back-stop if you take a slide. Fall protection harness with positioning d-rings. These are two rings at your hips that you can clip in a bridle you can lean back against. Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 8:31 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Greetings wrenches, > I am looking at a job with an extreme pitch comp roof(60°) and figured I > would reach out to see what other installers' experiences have been and > what recommendations or best practices advice ones might have. It's rare > that we do anything steeper than 45° so I would greatly appreciate any > insight you guys may have! > Sunny Regards, > > Tyrone Houck > Oregon Solarworks LLC > CCB #204937 LRT #076 > 541-787-1366 > tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed May 20 12:44:21 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 12:44:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony solar In-Reply-To: <3B5AD164-2210-40D4-8C3D-65A45E0E8E87@gmail.com> References: <3B5AD164-2210-40D4-8C3D-65A45E0E8E87@gmail.com> Message-ID: Here's my take: https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/is-plug-in-solar-safe-the-wiring-danger-that-marketing-will-not-tell-you-about https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/are-plug-in-solar-panels-legal-in-florida-what-buyers-need-to-know In Florida, you can't get an interconnection agreement without a permitted and inspected system. FPL would charge you for export (the non-bidirectional meters only record absolute value, so they charge you for export if you don't have a netmetering agreement). Our local co-op utility would threaten to disconnect your power in 72 hours if one watt of power leaks back to the grid and is detected by their smart meters. And 1,200W is a drop in the bucket compared to typical energy use here, so it's not going to make a noticeable dent in real electric bills. The chatter about plug-in solar is abnormally high right now, in my opinion. I know some states are passing legislation, and it seems there is real consumer demand out there. But the practical benefits of this seem very small. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 11:27 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all. > > I’m wondering what/if there is consensus about this. > I just read Cali is approving 1200 watts into an outlet. Which seems > absolutely dangerous. > I haven’t been able to figure out how the utility deals with backfeed. > Does the meter count up or down or do nothing? > > Just wondering > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom.mccalmont at pairedpower.com Wed May 20 12:46:09 2026 From: tom.mccalmont at pairedpower.com (Tom McCalmont) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 09:46:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony solar In-Reply-To: <3B5AD164-2210-40D4-8C3D-65A45E0E8E87@gmail.com> References: <3B5AD164-2210-40D4-8C3D-65A45E0E8E87@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9FF801CE-CAB5-41DC-9DBE-121F83255A0B@pairedpower.com> I believe it’s safe using modern inverters that meet UL1741. There obviously needs to be assurance that solar generation cuts off within milliseconds if a toddler unplugs the feed from an outlet. Balcony solar has been widely deployed in Europe (Germany especially) for quite some time now, so several advocates are working to bring it to the U.S. Utah (surprisingly) was the first state to adopt it. The bill being considered in CA where we are will bring a lot of momentum to the idea nationally if it passes. You raise a good point about the meter. Most utility meters are the ratcheting type now, meaning they count up no matter which way the power flows through them. That was instituted many years ago when scab customers figured out they could turn their electric meter upside down to cause it to count down when they were consuming. So utilities have mostly replaced those older meters with ratcheting or smart meters that always count up. It’s why in most states you have to have an interconnection agreement with the utility to install a solar system and why your meter is replaced with one that is capable of counting backwards. The theory is that a balcony solar system at 1.2 kW will never produce more power than is needed to offset phantom loads within the house so will never actually backfeed (or cause the meter to count up). That’s likely the case in most houses that existing loads are always consuming at least 10A (1200W). Tom McCalmont, P.E. CEO, Paired Power pairedpower.com | LinkedIn Direct: (669) 877-2931 > On May 20, 2026, at 8:25 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all. > > I’m wondering what/if there is consensus about this. > I just read Cali is approving 1200 watts into an outlet. Which seems absolutely dangerous. > I haven’t been able to figure out how the utility deals with backfeed. > Does the meter count up or down or do nothing? > > Just wondering > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Wed May 20 12:49:37 2026 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 09:49:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tyrone - William's recommendation of scaffolding is good - make sure the top level of the scaffolding walking area is all the way up to the lower edge of the roof. Then, the scaffolding safety rails will extend above that level. Toe boards are also very helpful if the array is high above that lower scaffolding area. They can be installed below the array so the install team has a place to rest their feet. Last but not least, Pitch Hoppers are an amazing product, but they only work up to 12/12 roof pitches: https://www.thepitchhopper.com/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23505716862&gbraid=0AAAAACalGfIVxfUbZtY5oY94925KLYl0i&gclid=CjwKCAjwt7XQBhBkEiwAtStppyREsblu68JKRPZGX8ogbYwhyDTTI-4bdVhDNTb482CC_j7cZgY6BxoCkrYQAvD_BwE -August On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 9:09 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Tyrone: > > I have some experience with steep roofs. To keep this post short I will > start with two recommendations: > > Scaffold the eaves. This gives you a place to stage materials and to rest > your calves. It is a last resort back-stop if you take a slide. > > Fall protection harness with positioning d-rings. These are two rings at > your hips that you can clip in a bridle you can lean back against. > > Good luck. > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 8:31 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Greetings wrenches, >> I am looking at a job with an extreme pitch comp roof(60°) and figured I >> would reach out to see what other installers' experiences have been and >> what recommendations or best practices advice ones might have. It's rare >> that we do anything steeper than 45° so I would greatly appreciate any >> insight you guys may have! >> Sunny Regards, >> >> Tyrone Houck >> Oregon Solarworks LLC >> CCB #204937 LRT #076 >> 541-787-1366 >> tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed May 20 13:00:36 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 17:00:36 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We now use Tower harnesses with double bags on both sides & we still drop stuff! but they are fairly comfortable & not light. _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: August Goers via RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 16:49:37 +0000 Size: 24550 URL: From mick at abrahamsolar.com Wed May 20 13:33:24 2026 From: mick at abrahamsolar.com (Mick Abraham) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 11:33:24 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit NEC 690.31(D)(1) compliance to a PVC pipe stub Message-ID: Hi, Mechanics ~ The general contractor put in a 2" PVC pipe before pouring the slab. The pipe has a 90 degree sweep so there's a vertical pipe stub. He thought there would be no code inspections for this remote property... oops. I now must use this plastic pipe for incoming PV wires. These wires will terminate on a MidNite Power MN15‑12KW‑AIO, so question one: Without embarrassing myself, can I argue that this qualifies for the exemption as a PV ICS (Photovoltaic Integrated Control System)? The PV arrays will be on top of an open horse shed, so I don't plan on any form of "rapid shutdown". Assuming that the above exemption won't get me off the hook, what are your suggestions for retrofit? My five wires could comfortably fit 1" trade size EMT conduit. If I cut the PVC stub then glue on a male adapter (so I could mount a metal box low to the floor), there's still some unprotected plastic due to the hub of the male adapter. Also: what would have been better initial tradecraft in a non-retrofit slab situation, assuming that one wants to use PVC for most of the pipe run while still satisfying NEC 690.31(D) (1)? Thanks in advance, Mechanix. "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed May 20 14:00:41 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 11:00:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit NEC 690.31(D)(1) compliance to a PVC pipe stub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a similar problem with PVC pre-installed through a roof. It was big enough pipe to run flex through and pull our PV runs. As to the requirement to use metallic, I haven’t had my second cup of coffee yet so I won’t comment. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 10:36 AM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi, Mechanics ~ > > The general contractor put in a 2" PVC pipe before pouring the slab. The > pipe has a 90 degree sweep so there's a vertical pipe stub. > He thought there would be no code inspections for this remote property... > oops. > > I now must use this plastic pipe for incoming PV wires. These wires will > terminate on a MidNite Power MN15‑12KW‑AIO, so question one: > Without embarrassing myself, can I argue that this qualifies for the > exemption as a PV ICS (Photovoltaic Integrated Control System)? > The PV arrays will be on top of an open horse shed, so I don't plan on any > form of "rapid shutdown". > > Assuming that the above exemption won't get me off the hook, what are your > suggestions for retrofit? My five wires could comfortably fit 1" trade size > EMT > conduit. If I cut the PVC stub then glue on a male adapter (so I could > mount a metal box low to the floor), there's still some unprotected plastic > due to the hub of the male adapter. > > Also: what would have been better initial tradecraft in a non-retrofit > slab situation, assuming that one wants to use PVC for most of the pipe run > while still satisfying > NEC 690.31(D) (1)? > > Thanks in advance, Mechanix. "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" > > Mick Abraham, Proprietor > www.abrahamsolar.com > > Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Wed May 20 14:13:11 2026 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 11:13:11 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95E17FEA-A79E-416B-A70D-2C22E86FE8DC@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AdvancedLadders-137-rotated.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed May 20 17:40:22 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 15:40:22 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] older outback stacking Message-ID: I am trying to help someone do an older VFX off grid series stack with 2 inverters both vintage 2008. I thought you could stack them parallel or series and in series either without the X240 or with the X240 called OB stacking. But when I look in the stacking options, there is just classic stack, it doesn’t give me L1 or L2 option. And then OB stacking gives L1 and L2. Am I remembering wrong? thanks jay From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Wed May 20 17:44:07 2026 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 14:44:07 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: <95E17FEA-A79E-416B-A70D-2C22E86FE8DC@yahoo.com> References: <95E17FEA-A79E-416B-A70D-2C22E86FE8DC@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes! Ladder hooks AND ladder jacks with aluminum scaffolding spanning the jacks is essential. A telescopic material handler and wide basket is worth renting and as others have suggested scaffolding at the right height is essential. I usually erect staging scaffolding against the working scaffolding to make schleping modules to the roof more humane. On steep metal roofs, I'll install a purpose made 10k swivel anchor at each end of the ridge that will be left behind for future use. Attached between those anchors,is strung a horizontal lifeline that we attach retractable lanyards to. All told its an expensive setup and time consuming to set up but feels very safe and mostly eliminates struggle On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 11:15 AM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We like all of the above and… Ladder hooks. Something like… > > [image: AdvancedLadders-137-rotated.jpg] > > Ladder Roof and Ridge Hook with Wheel > > share.google > > > > > *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* > President > > > *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* > > *Since 1987,** helping you and your * > *Portland neighbors move** towards an environmentally sustainable future.* > > > *503-238-4502 <503-238-4502>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > * > > On May 20, 2026, at 9:55 AM, August Goers via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Hi Tyrone - > > William's recommendation of scaffolding is good - make sure the top level > of the scaffolding walking area is all the way up to the lower edge of the > roof. Then, the scaffolding safety rails will extend above that level. Toe > boards are also very helpful if the array is high above that lower > scaffolding area. They can be installed below the array so the install team > has a place to rest their feet. Last but not least, Pitch Hoppers are an > amazing product, but they only work up to 12/12 roof pitches: > https://www.thepitchhopper.com/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23505716862&gbraid=0AAAAACalGfIVxfUbZtY5oY94925KLYl0i&gclid=CjwKCAjwt7XQBhBkEiwAtStppyREsblu68JKRPZGX8ogbYwhyDTTI-4bdVhDNTb482CC_j7cZgY6BxoCkrYQAvD_BwE > > -August > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 9:09 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Tyrone: >> >> I have some experience with steep roofs. To keep this post short I will >> start with two recommendations: >> >> Scaffold the eaves. This gives you a place to stage materials and to rest >> your calves. It is a last resort back-stop if you take a slide. >> >> Fall protection harness with positioning d-rings. These are two rings at >> your hips that you can clip in a bridle you can lean back against. >> >> Good luck. >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 8:31 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings wrenches, >>> I am looking at a job with an extreme pitch comp roof(60°) and figured I >>> would reach out to see what other installers' experiences have been and >>> what recommendations or best practices advice ones might have. It's rare >>> that we do anything steeper than 45° so I would greatly appreciate any >>> insight you guys may have! >>> Sunny Regards, >>> >>> Tyrone Houck >>> Oregon Solarworks LLC >>> CCB #204937 LRT #076 >>> 541-787-1366 >>> tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric Inc PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 1116835 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AdvancedLadders-137-rotated.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed May 20 18:40:03 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 18:40:03 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit NEC 690.31(D)(1) compliance to a PVC pipe stub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure your exact situation, but a 230.6 argument could potentially be made, as this exemption is often applied to “other than service conductors”. Installed under min 2” of concrete can be considered “outside of the building”. On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 2:05 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I had a similar problem with PVC pre-installed through a roof. It was big > enough pipe to run flex through and pull our PV runs. > > As to the requirement to use metallic, I haven’t had my second cup of > coffee yet so I won’t comment. > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 10:36 AM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi, Mechanics ~ >> >> The general contractor put in a 2" PVC pipe before pouring the slab. The >> pipe has a 90 degree sweep so there's a vertical pipe stub. >> He thought there would be no code inspections for this remote property... >> oops. >> >> I now must use this plastic pipe for incoming PV wires. These wires will >> terminate on a MidNite Power MN15‑12KW‑AIO, so question one: >> Without embarrassing myself, can I argue that this qualifies for the >> exemption as a PV ICS (Photovoltaic Integrated Control System)? >> The PV arrays will be on top of an open horse shed, so I don't plan on >> any form of "rapid shutdown". >> >> Assuming that the above exemption won't get me off the hook, what are >> your suggestions for retrofit? My five wires could comfortably fit 1" trade >> size EMT >> conduit. If I cut the PVC stub then glue on a male adapter (so I could >> mount a metal box low to the floor), there's still some unprotected plastic >> due to the hub of the male adapter. >> >> Also: what would have been better initial tradecraft in a non-retrofit >> slab situation, assuming that one wants to use PVC for most of the pipe run >> while still satisfying >> NEC 690.31(D) (1)? >> >> Thanks in advance, Mechanix. "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" >> >> Mick Abraham, Proprietor >> www.abrahamsolar.com >> >> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Wed May 20 20:50:57 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 17:50:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ground Mounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did lots of ground mounts in Colorado -- that was kind of our mainstay, doing jobs that no one else would take (most companies only did roof mounts). We almost never had nice soil to work with in the mountains. Mostly we used multifoot mounts similar to SnapnRack multifoot mount, but usually modified to meet our own requirements. I usually did about 45 degrees tilt, as that was the sweet spot for off grid to shed snow reasonably well, and not kill summer production. I often changed them to mount the modules in portrait, two rows high, rather than landscape 3 or 4 rows high, for less joints to inhibit snow shedding. That involved adding a layer of steel unistrut "rafters" usually. We were dealing with around 55 to 75psf snow load, and 160 to 175mph design wind load. I did all kinds of foundations -- mostly concrete, as we were very often in too rocky of area for the screw in anchors to work well. I did ones with drilled and poured caisons (rare), excavated and backfilled sonotubes, bured footers, buried slabs, on grade slabs, on grade footers, bolted to parking lot bumpers or jersey barriers, or bolted to native rocks. I like the native rocks the best... no need to bring in all the weight or heavy equipment -- if we had a great big granite boulder or granite hillside, we just drilled in 1/2" redheads and bolted feet to the rock. The parking lot bumpers were also good for sites without heavy equipment or concrete truck access as two or three people could drag them up a hill and lay them out, pin them to the ground with rebar driven in, then bolt them all together with a frame on top. The worst ones were where the ground was too hard to dig with a backhoe, but still too soft to get a good rock anchor into -- decaying granite stuff. Those were where I had to just do sheer weight. I had an engineer who would review and stamp all of my custom designs, and as long as I had enough weight, I could do pretty much whatever -- he pretty much only evaluated weight for the caisons anyway. We didn't have expansive soils issues in most the places I was working, so getting below frost depth wasn't a concern, at least. Zeke Message: 3 Date: Tue, 19 May 2026 23:35:21 -0400 From: Howie Michaelson To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ground mounts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We have been using Nuance Osprey racking for ground mounts for a few years, with earth anchors for our attachments. Where there's decent, deep enough soul, this system works reasonably well and we don't need to mobilize any large equipment. This is a major advantage when working on more remote systems where the expense and logistics of large, heavy machines is less practical, especially for even larger residential sized systems. Unfortunately, working in northern Vermont doesn't usually afford us "decent" or deep enough soil, so we've struggled a lot with the earth anchors. Additionally, our local supplier of Osprey racks no longer deals with them so sourcing problems along with the installation hassles has pushed me to look for another, reasonably priced ground mount system. So I'm looking for suggestions of racks and attachment systems others have found useful. We are looking at helical piles, but of course they are expensive. If they are our best option, we will price accordingly, but they are not a sure bet around here either. All suggestions are welcomed! TIA, Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher LLC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed May 20 20:56:50 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 17:56:50 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit NEC 690.31(D)(1) compliance to a PVC pipe stub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches. Conduit issue, If it is Unprotected then you need sch 80 but as it is going through concrete weed trimming is not really an issue, that is in my JHD anyway. On Wed, May 20, 2026, 3:42 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Not sure your exact situation, but a 230.6 argument could potentially be > made, as this exemption is often applied to “other than service > conductors”. Installed under min 2” of concrete can be considered “outside > of the building”. > > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 2:05 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I had a similar problem with PVC pre-installed through a roof. It was big >> enough pipe to run flex through and pull our PV runs. >> >> As to the requirement to use metallic, I haven’t had my second cup of >> coffee yet so I won’t comment. >> >> William Miller >> Miller Solar.com >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 10:36 AM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Mechanics ~ >>> >>> The general contractor put in a 2" PVC pipe before pouring the slab. The >>> pipe has a 90 degree sweep so there's a vertical pipe stub. >>> He thought there would be no code inspections for this remote >>> property... oops. >>> >>> I now must use this plastic pipe for incoming PV wires. These wires will >>> terminate on a MidNite Power MN15‑12KW‑AIO, so question one: >>> Without embarrassing myself, can I argue that this qualifies for the >>> exemption as a PV ICS (Photovoltaic Integrated Control System)? >>> The PV arrays will be on top of an open horse shed, so I don't plan on >>> any form of "rapid shutdown". >>> >>> Assuming that the above exemption won't get me off the hook, what are >>> your suggestions for retrofit? My five wires could comfortably fit 1" trade >>> size EMT >>> conduit. If I cut the PVC stub then glue on a male adapter (so I could >>> mount a metal box low to the floor), there's still some unprotected plastic >>> due to the hub of the male adapter. >>> >>> Also: what would have been better initial tradecraft in a non-retrofit >>> slab situation, assuming that one wants to use PVC for most of the pipe run >>> while still satisfying >>> NEC 690.31(D) (1)? >>> >>> Thanks in advance, Mechanix. "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" >>> >>> Mick Abraham, Proprietor >>> www.abrahamsolar.com >>> >>> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed May 20 21:12:15 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 20 May 2026 18:12:15 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Electric bill reducing tool Message-ID: Wrenches, Got this from a city inspector, thought it needed to be seen by the group, yes full view of the street. Fun times -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 7469.heic Type: image/heic Size: 2461659 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu May 21 10:23:43 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 14:23:43 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ground Mounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A1C129B-056B-46B9-A988-10AC85A6849C@solarwork.com> Years ago in Colorado I looked at grade beam bases for areas where the soil was poor and not wanting to have to excavate for a massive footing. The Engineering we came up with for a 90 mph three second microburst was 18 pounds per square foot of collector. Please do not take this as gospel, but gives you a starting point if you’ve got an engineer, you’re working with. Best to all of you Sent from my iPad On May 20, 2026, at 6:53 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote:  I did lots of ground mounts in Colorado -- that was kind of our mainstay, doing jobs that no one else would take (most companies only did roof mounts). We almost never had nice soil to work with in the mountains. Mostly we used multifoot mounts similar to SnapnRack multifoot mount, but usually modified to meet our own requirements. I usually did about 45 degrees tilt, as that was the sweet spot for off grid to shed snow reasonably well, and not kill summer production. I often changed them to mount the modules in portrait, two rows high, rather than landscape 3 or 4 rows high, for less joints to inhibit snow shedding. That involved adding a layer of steel unistrut "rafters" usually. We were dealing with around 55 to 75psf snow load, and 160 to 175mph design wind load. I did all kinds of foundations -- mostly concrete, as we were very often in too rocky of area for the screw in anchors to work well. I did ones with drilled and poured caisons (rare), excavated and backfilled sonotubes, bured footers, buried slabs, on grade slabs, on grade footers, bolted to parking lot bumpers or jersey barriers, or bolted to native rocks. I like the native rocks the best... no need to bring in all the weight or heavy equipment -- if we had a great big granite boulder or granite hillside, we just drilled in 1/2" redheads and bolted feet to the rock. The parking lot bumpers were also good for sites without heavy equipment or concrete truck access as two or three people could drag them up a hill and lay them out, pin them to the ground with rebar driven in, then bolt them all together with a frame on top. The worst ones were where the ground was too hard to dig with a backhoe, but still too soft to get a good rock anchor into -- decaying granite stuff. Those were where I had to just do sheer weight. I had an engineer who would review and stamp all of my custom designs, and as long as I had enough weight, I could do pretty much whatever -- he pretty much only evaluated weight for the caisons anyway. We didn't have expansive soils issues in most the places I was working, so getting below frost depth wasn't a concern, at least. Zeke Message: 3 Date: Tue, 19 May 2026 23:35:21 -0400 From: Howie Michaelson > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ground mounts Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We have been using Nuance Osprey racking for ground mounts for a few years, with earth anchors for our attachments. Where there's decent, deep enough soul, this system works reasonably well and we don't need to mobilize any large equipment. This is a major advantage when working on more remote systems where the expense and logistics of large, heavy machines is less practical, especially for even larger residential sized systems. Unfortunately, working in northern Vermont doesn't usually afford us "decent" or deep enough soil, so we've struggled a lot with the earth anchors. Additionally, our local supplier of Osprey racks no longer deals with them so sourcing problems along with the installation hassles has pushed me to look for another, reasonably priced ground mount system. So I'm looking for suggestions of racks and attachment systems others have found useful. We are looking at helical piles, but of course they are expensive. If they are our best option, we will price accordingly, but they are not a sure bet around here either. All suggestions are welcomed! TIA, Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher LLC _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu May 21 10:25:11 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 10:25:11 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit NEC 690.31(D)(1) compliance to a PVC pipe stub In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm a fan of talking to the inspector directly for their take. Explain the situation. It seems like having 2" of PVC inside a TA and mounting a metal jbox as low as possible and transitioning to metal from there should be reasonable. On Wed, May 20, 2026, 8:58 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches. Conduit issue, > If it is Unprotected then you need sch 80 but as it is going through > concrete weed trimming is not really an issue, that is in my JHD anyway. > > > On Wed, May 20, 2026, 3:42 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Not sure your exact situation, but a 230.6 argument could potentially be >> made, as this exemption is often applied to “other than service >> conductors”. Installed under min 2” of concrete can be considered “outside >> of the building”. >> >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 2:05 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I had a similar problem with PVC pre-installed through a roof. It was >>> big enough pipe to run flex through and pull our PV runs. >>> >>> As to the requirement to use metallic, I haven’t had my second cup of >>> coffee yet so I won’t comment. >>> >>> William Miller >>> Miller Solar.com >>> 805-438-5600 >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 10:36 AM Mick Abraham via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Mechanics ~ >>>> >>>> The general contractor put in a 2" PVC pipe before pouring the slab. >>>> The pipe has a 90 degree sweep so there's a vertical pipe stub. >>>> He thought there would be no code inspections for this remote >>>> property... oops. >>>> >>>> I now must use this plastic pipe for incoming PV wires. These wires >>>> will terminate on a MidNite Power MN15‑12KW‑AIO, so question one: >>>> Without embarrassing myself, can I argue that this qualifies for the >>>> exemption as a PV ICS (Photovoltaic Integrated Control System)? >>>> The PV arrays will be on top of an open horse shed, so I don't plan on >>>> any form of "rapid shutdown". >>>> >>>> Assuming that the above exemption won't get me off the hook, what are >>>> your suggestions for retrofit? My five wires could comfortably fit 1" trade >>>> size EMT >>>> conduit. If I cut the PVC stub then glue on a male adapter (so I could >>>> mount a metal box low to the floor), there's still some unprotected plastic >>>> due to the hub of the male adapter. >>>> >>>> Also: what would have been better initial tradecraft in a non-retrofit >>>> slab situation, assuming that one wants to use PVC for most of the pipe run >>>> while still satisfying >>>> NEC 690.31(D) (1)? >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, Mechanix. "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" >>>> >>>> Mick Abraham, Proprietor >>>> www.abrahamsolar.com >>>> >>>> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu May 21 10:32:22 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 10:32:22 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: References: <95E17FEA-A79E-416B-A70D-2C22E86FE8DC@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Also, it should probably be said that many racking systems are not designed for greater than a 45 degree pitch. Last time we ran into a roof like this I think we used snap n rack. I think it was them whose design tool allowed for greater than a 45 degree pitch. If possible we like to put the lowest rail up from a ladder. Once you have those mounts and the first rail up, the rest is much easier. Also Petzl has some good industrial rope access harnesses with work positioning attachment points on the front. Then we use the petzl ASAP lock as it is easy to move up and down a rope, and can be locked in place. It will also grab in case of a fall (obviously). Cheers, Dave On Wed, May 20, 2026, 5:45 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Yes! Ladder hooks AND ladder jacks with aluminum scaffolding spanning the > jacks is essential. A telescopic material handler and wide basket is worth > renting and as others have suggested scaffolding at the right height is > essential. I usually erect staging scaffolding against the working > scaffolding to make schleping modules to the roof more humane. On steep > metal roofs, I'll install a purpose made 10k swivel anchor at each end of > the ridge that will be left behind for future use. Attached between those > anchors,is strung a horizontal lifeline that we attach retractable lanyards > to. All told its an expensive setup and time consuming to set up but feels > very safe and mostly eliminates struggle > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 11:15 AM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We like all of the above and… Ladder hooks. Something like… >> >> [image: AdvancedLadders-137-rotated.jpg] >> >> Ladder Roof and Ridge Hook with Wheel >> >> share.google >> >> >> >> >> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* >> President >> >> >> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* >> >> *Since 1987,** helping you and your * >> *Portland neighbors move** towards an environmentally sustainable >> future.* >> >> >> *503-238-4502 <503-238-4502>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com >> * >> >> On May 20, 2026, at 9:55 AM, August Goers via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> Hi Tyrone - >> >> William's recommendation of scaffolding is good - make sure the top level >> of the scaffolding walking area is all the way up to the lower edge of the >> roof. Then, the scaffolding safety rails will extend above that level. Toe >> boards are also very helpful if the array is high above that lower >> scaffolding area. They can be installed below the array so the install team >> has a place to rest their feet. Last but not least, Pitch Hoppers are an >> amazing product, but they only work up to 12/12 roof pitches: >> https://www.thepitchhopper.com/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23505716862&gbraid=0AAAAACalGfIVxfUbZtY5oY94925KLYl0i&gclid=CjwKCAjwt7XQBhBkEiwAtStppyREsblu68JKRPZGX8ogbYwhyDTTI-4bdVhDNTb482CC_j7cZgY6BxoCkrYQAvD_BwE >> >> -August >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 9:09 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Tyrone: >>> >>> I have some experience with steep roofs. To keep this post short I will >>> start with two recommendations: >>> >>> Scaffold the eaves. This gives you a place to stage materials and to >>> rest your calves. It is a last resort back-stop if you take a slide. >>> >>> Fall protection harness with positioning d-rings. These are two rings at >>> your hips that you can clip in a bridle you can lean back against. >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> William Miller >>> Miller Solar.com >>> 805-438-5600 >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 8:31 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings wrenches, >>>> I am looking at a job with an extreme pitch comp roof(60°) and figured >>>> I would reach out to see what other installers' experiences have been and >>>> what recommendations or best practices advice ones might have. It's rare >>>> that we do anything steeper than 45° so I would greatly appreciate any >>>> insight you guys may have! >>>> Sunny Regards, >>>> >>>> Tyrone Houck >>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC >>>> CCB #204937 LRT #076 >>>> 541-787-1366 >>>> tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AdvancedLadders-137-rotated.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david2coale at gmail.com Thu May 21 11:33:48 2026 From: david2coale at gmail.com (David Coale) Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 08:33:48 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Electric bill reducing tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Creative conduit work, nice flexible yellow weather head connections, and an extra biodegradable ground rod! What’s not to like? 😆 Typos enhanced by iPhone On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 6:16 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > Got this from a city inspector, thought it needed to be seen by the group, > yes full view of the street. > Fun > > > times > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tyronehouck at gmail.com Thu May 21 14:45:24 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 11:45:24 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: References: <95E17FEA-A79E-416B-A70D-2C22E86FE8DC@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you for all the feedback! Fortunately it's an A-frame with a deck at the bottom edge so that will make it a little easier! I have a horizontal safety line and will research further into what ladder hooks/plank options are available. I appreciate the advice from everyone who commented. Sunny Regards, Tyrone Houck Oregon Solarworks LLC CCB #204937 LRT #076 541-787-1366 tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com On Wed, May 20, 2026, 2:44 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Yes! Ladder hooks AND ladder jacks with aluminum scaffolding spanning the > jacks is essential. A telescopic material handler and wide basket is worth > renting and as others have suggested scaffolding at the right height is > essential. I usually erect staging scaffolding against the working > scaffolding to make schleping modules to the roof more humane. On steep > metal roofs, I'll install a purpose made 10k swivel anchor at each end of > the ridge that will be left behind for future use. Attached between those > anchors,is strung a horizontal lifeline that we attach retractable lanyards > to. All told its an expensive setup and time consuming to set up but feels > very safe and mostly eliminates struggle > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 11:15 AM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We like all of the above and… Ladder hooks. Something like… >> >> [image: AdvancedLadders-137-rotated.jpg] >> >> Ladder Roof and Ridge Hook with Wheel >> >> share.google >> >> >> >> >> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* >> President >> >> >> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* >> >> *Since 1987,** helping you and your * >> *Portland neighbors move** towards an environmentally sustainable >> future.* >> >> >> *503-238-4502 <503-238-4502>www.SolarEnergyOregon.com >> * >> >> On May 20, 2026, at 9:55 AM, August Goers via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> Hi Tyrone - >> >> William's recommendation of scaffolding is good - make sure the top level >> of the scaffolding walking area is all the way up to the lower edge of the >> roof. Then, the scaffolding safety rails will extend above that level. Toe >> boards are also very helpful if the array is high above that lower >> scaffolding area. They can be installed below the array so the install team >> has a place to rest their feet. Last but not least, Pitch Hoppers are an >> amazing product, but they only work up to 12/12 roof pitches: >> https://www.thepitchhopper.com/?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23505716862&gbraid=0AAAAACalGfIVxfUbZtY5oY94925KLYl0i&gclid=CjwKCAjwt7XQBhBkEiwAtStppyREsblu68JKRPZGX8ogbYwhyDTTI-4bdVhDNTb482CC_j7cZgY6BxoCkrYQAvD_BwE >> >> -August >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 9:09 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Tyrone: >>> >>> I have some experience with steep roofs. To keep this post short I will >>> start with two recommendations: >>> >>> Scaffold the eaves. This gives you a place to stage materials and to >>> rest your calves. It is a last resort back-stop if you take a slide. >>> >>> Fall protection harness with positioning d-rings. These are two rings at >>> your hips that you can clip in a bridle you can lean back against. >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> William Miller >>> Miller Solar.com >>> 805-438-5600 >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 8:31 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Greetings wrenches, >>>> I am looking at a job with an extreme pitch comp roof(60°) and figured >>>> I would reach out to see what other installers' experiences have been and >>>> what recommendations or best practices advice ones might have. It's rare >>>> that we do anything steeper than 45° so I would greatly appreciate any >>>> insight you guys may have! >>>> Sunny Regards, >>>> >>>> Tyrone Houck >>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC >>>> CCB #204937 LRT #076 >>>> 541-787-1366 >>>> tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric Inc > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > CSLB 1116835 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AdvancedLadders-137-rotated.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57737 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu May 21 14:55:55 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 12:55:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Considerations for steep roof installation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Thu May 21 19:51:44 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Thu, 21 May 2026 19:51:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Electric bill reducing tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I mean…passes the 110.3(B) smell test to me. Jumper cables installed in accordance with manufacturer’s intended use. On Thu, May 21, 2026 at 11:35 AM David Coale via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Creative conduit work, nice flexible yellow weather head connections, and > an extra biodegradable ground rod! What’s not to like? 😆 > > > Typos enhanced by iPhone > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 6:16 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, >> Got this from a city inspector, thought it needed to be seen by the >> group, yes full view of the street. >> Fun >> >> >> times >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon May 25 12:17:44 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 25 May 2026 09:17:44 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time In-Reply-To: <8D1867FE-4C6E-4CA5-86EE-43DCF44305F3@gmail.com> References: <8D1867FE-4C6E-4CA5-86EE-43DCF44305F3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good morning wrenches, For me l seem like i get a better SOC when running in open loop and the inverter is set for charged voltage. What l would like is that the BMS would have some dry contacts that can be programmed to gen start/stop, load shedding and befor everyone says that the inverter does this old inverter that get new batteries can't do this and in some cases l have battery direct products, water pumping, water heaters and AC units none require inverters so internal BMS programable dry contacts would be great. Blue planet had contacts but they were not set up as programmable. Maybe down the road. Funtimes On Mon, Apr 13, 2026, 8:45 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I own an EV and how would I know how accurate the % reading is. > I can’t check battery volts or anything. > Most people probably pay more attention to the miles remaining than %, I > do. > > I know teslas have been sued and won over optimist %/ range numbers. > > Hard to know if it’s more or less accurate than any other Bms. > > > > On Apr 13, 2026, at 3:05 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Could it be that the EV SOC is somewhat faked by the manufacturers > because they know the mass market will not stand for "SOC drift" as an > excuse? > > My wife had a Saab in the 2000s that would go to "0 miles remaining" but > still keep running for over 50 miles. Ask me how I know. :) > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 12:36 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Seems kinda funny that the EV manus can pretty well nail the SOC of their >> battery packs for reliable readout of range left and percent of charge >> (SOC). We've been driving EVs (3 varieties) for 8 years now and this has >> been our experience. This now being done with LiFePO4 batteries in EVs and >> it's not very often that an EV battery get charged up to 100%. >> >> Unless I'm missing something it seems our industry-wide SOC >> monitoring is not as sophisticated, until it is we're using voltage, with >> its limitations, for AGS. Is it just a matter of having the best coulomb counter?...uh >> oh, now I'm drifting out of my field. >> >> I would love to see more webinars from our manufacturers that >> get more into the weeds about the guts about how LiFePO4 batteries with >> their BMS's interact with our systems especially off-grid, our main market. >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, owner >> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)5575 Genesee Rd . (USPS, UPS) >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell) >> CA. C10 Lic # 874049 >> Solar Powered since 1982 >> Home of the Sunny Side Up >> >> >> On 4/12/2026 3:14 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: >> >> Yep, totally agree. However, then you start facing the issue of SOC >> drift if you can't get them up to 100% regularly. >> >> Damned if you do, damned if you don't. >> >> Right-sizing all components is hard while staying within reasonable >> budgets. I guess that's why we get paid the big bucks. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 6:03 PM Bill P. Battagin via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Jason, >>> >>> I couldn't agree with you more about over-sizing the >>> battery when Off-grid and open loop. In my opinion this is THE solution. >>> Yes there's the extra cost of the greater capacity battery however it >>> solves the generator angst issue (both customer and installer). There is >>> the added upfront cost of the battery, maybe 30-35%? but over time much of >>> that cost will be recovered from lower genny fuel consumption, repairs and >>> maintenance, plus i'm guessing the L-ion pack will last longer if its not >>> worked as hard and discharged as deeply. Obviously its a plus to also have >>> the benefit of more power autonomy it the sun ain't shining. >>> >>> Overall in the long run, maybe it does come out a little >>> more expensive, but its a better more reliable system with less problems. >>> We're more worried about the gas in the generator going bad due to lack of >>> use than BMS shutdown. Is bad gas angst a thing? >>> >>> Taylorsville Bill's $.02 worth, >>> >>> *Feather River Solar Electric* >>> >>> *Bill Battagin, owner* >>> >>> *4291 Nelson St. (Freight)* >>> >>> *5575 Genesee Rd . (USPS, UPS)* >>> >>> *Taylorsville, CA 95983* >>> >>> *530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)**CA. >>> C10 Lic # 874049 >>> **Solar Powered since 1982* >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches" < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> *To: *"RE-wrenches" >>> *Cc: *"Jason Szumlanski" , "Zeke >>> Yewdall" >>> *Sent: *Sunday, April 12, 2026 2:28:40 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [RE-wrenches] AGS quiet time >>> >>> The issue I have with open loop and LFP when off-grid is that you have >>> to set the AGS start voltage pretty high on sites where there is >>> sometimes a large load relative to battery capacity. The voltage curve >>> drops off too fast around 20% to start the generator sometimes before the >>> BMS shuts down. You can't use the full capacity of the battery because you're >>> faced with starting the generator at higher than necessary voltages. >>> That takes away one of the huge advantages of LFP over lead-acid: more >>> usable capacity. >>> >>> That said, I have sites with huge batteries and low loads that work >>> great with open loop because the batteries rarely approach deep discharge, >>> and when they do, there is enough time to "catch" the steep part of the >>> curve. >>> >>> In a perfect world, everyone would play nice and agree on communication >>> standards, or at least just let the dang inverter read the SOC and that's >>> it. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2026 at 5:21 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I used to be a firm believer in only operating lithium batteries in >>>> open loop, because trying to do closed loop with most requipment was such a >>>> disaster of communications tinkering at best. I would still try to operate >>>> the AGS with SOC based controls as much as possible, but still have a >>>> voltage catch in case the SOC drifted off from reality. Outback would let >>>> you have both at the same time. But still no comms with the batteries. >>>> >>>> But, if you can have the batteries and inverter from the same >>>> manufacturer, which is more and more possible, so you know closed loop >>>> communications are going to work, that is much nicer than trying to >>>> determine voltage based start and stop points on a lithium battery. So >>>> I'm coming around to using closed loop communications since starting using >>>> matched equipment. >>>> >>>> I get not taking the SOC all the way to 100% with the generator to >>>> leave some room for solar. But I think it depends on your climate. If you >>>> have some winter sun and can still get to 100% regularly, I think that can >>>> make sense. But if you have no winter sun (like where I am now -- typical >>>> PSH well under 1 for Dec and Jan -- I've measured as low as 0.25PSH for the >>>> month before -- then I am still a believer in getting the batteries to >>>> 100% regularly (once every week or two), even if that takes a generator. >>>> Otherwise the SOC indicated by the BMS can drift from reality. Some BMS's >>>> will recalibrate their SOC if they get a voltage reading at rest at an SOC >>>> lower than 100%, but many BMS's will only recalibrate the SOC calculation >>>> when they reach 100% (same as ah counting SOC meters that have to reach >>>> 100% to recalibrate/reset). >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> >> Virus-free.www.avast.com >> >> <#m_-4049992150813843272_m_-7272947035172703228_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Tue May 26 17:52:42 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 17:52:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help Message-ID: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> My fellow wrenchers. Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #'s as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. Thx Peter Giroux American Solar 678 525 0468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Tue May 26 18:00:47 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 18:00:47 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue May 26 18:01:32 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 18:01:32 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Hi Peter, If there is internet connectivity on site, the Emporia Vue 3 might be a good option here, especially with the “nesting” feature for multiple panels. Rogowski coil option for the win! On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My fellow wrenchers. > > > > Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer > that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power > daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill > has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply > installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s > as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his > existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found > numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. > > > > Thx > > Peter Giroux > > American Solar > > 678 525 0468 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at solshineenergy.com Tue May 26 18:29:08 2026 From: rick at solshineenergy.com (Rick Brown) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 18:29:08 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <138CCD6E-5C36-4E22-BB70-E42FCD63E143@solshineenergy.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump3391 at gmail.com Tue May 26 18:33:29 2026 From: tump3391 at gmail.com (Blair May) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 18:33:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: We rent power data loggers from these folks. Reasonable and professional. trs-rentelco.com Blair "Tump" May On Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My fellow wrenchers. > > > > Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer > that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power > daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill > has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply > installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s > as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his > existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found > numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. > > > > Thx > > Peter Giroux > > American Solar > > 678 525 0468 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump3391 at gmail.com Tue May 26 18:33:29 2026 From: tump3391 at gmail.com (Blair May) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 18:33:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: We rent power data loggers from these folks. Reasonable and professional. trs-rentelco.com Blair "Tump" May On Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My fellow wrenchers. > > > > Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer > that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power > daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill > has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply > installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s > as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his > existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found > numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. > > > > Thx > > Peter Giroux > > American Solar > > 678 525 0468 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at gmail.com Tue May 26 18:44:23 2026 From: lucchesesolar at gmail.com (Nick Lucchese) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 15:44:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I'll second Chris' advice for the Emporia Vue. Very affordable and can be installed in about 1-2 hours at most in many cases. Affordable enough that it would likely be cheaper to leave in place than return to remove it. Bonus to have the platform already in place if they're going to add the Emporia EV charger as well. Good luck, Nick On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 3:38 PM Blair May via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We rent power data loggers from these folks. Reasonable and professional. > trs-rentelco.com > > Blair "Tump" May > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> My fellow wrenchers. >> >> >> >> Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer >> that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power >> daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill >> has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply >> installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s >> as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his >> existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found >> numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. >> >> >> >> Thx >> >> Peter Giroux >> >> American Solar >> >> 678 525 0468 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue May 26 18:50:27 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 15:50:27 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5D168022-F138-4953-98AB-2C243E131D6E@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Tue May 26 19:24:57 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 17:24:57 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: <5D168022-F138-4953-98AB-2C243E131D6E@gmail.com> References: <5D168022-F138-4953-98AB-2C243E131D6E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Use an emporia vue energy monitoring set up. You can get one that just meters the main lines with 2 CTs Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 4:52 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I agree > Then the customer has real time monitoring going into the future. > > > > On May 26, 2026, at 3:46 PM, Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > I'll second Chris' advice for the Emporia Vue. Very affordable and can be > installed in about 1-2 hours at most in many cases. Affordable enough that > it would likely be cheaper to leave in place than return to remove it. > Bonus to have the platform already in place if they're going to add the > Emporia EV charger as well. > > Good luck, Nick > > On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 3:38 PM Blair May via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We rent power data loggers from these folks. Reasonable and professional. >> trs-rentelco.com >> >> Blair "Tump" May >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> My fellow wrenchers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer >>> that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power >>> daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill >>> has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply >>> installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s >>> as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his >>> existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found >>> numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thx >>> >>> Peter Giroux >>> >>> American Solar >>> >>> 678 525 0468 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david2coale at gmail.com Wed May 27 00:08:50 2026 From: david2coale at gmail.com (David Coale) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 21:08:50 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Third on the Emporia monitor. The other thing about the Emporia system, is that with the EV charger, which is highly rated, you can have the monitor and EV charger work together to charge on excess solar instead of selling it back to the grid. This is the cheap way to help future proof your PV system against NEM 3. Just put the excess solar in the EV for use later on. This does mean you have to be able to charge from home during the day. David On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 3:46 PM Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I'll second Chris' advice for the Emporia Vue. Very affordable and can be > installed in about 1-2 hours at most in many cases. Affordable enough that > it would likely be cheaper to leave in place than return to remove it. > Bonus to have the platform already in place if they're going to add the > Emporia EV charger as well. > > Good luck, Nick > > On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 3:38 PM Blair May via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We rent power data loggers from these folks. Reasonable and professional. >> trs-rentelco.com >> >> Blair "Tump" May >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> My fellow wrenchers. >>> >>> >>> >>> Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer >>> that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power >>> daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill >>> has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply >>> installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s >>> as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his >>> existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found >>> numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thx >>> >>> Peter Giroux >>> >>> American Solar >>> >>> 678 525 0468 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed May 27 02:13:48 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 26 May 2026 23:13:48 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Wrenches, Glen. When l need to sub meter i just use a meter socket box and revenue grade meter, simple. Now if you want sophisticated then an E guage with web based monitoring a platform. Fun times On Tue, May 26, 2026, 3:03 PM Glenn via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have used a Sense monitor on my house for years. They have a few > different options now days > > -Glenn > > On May 26, 2026 17:52, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > My fellow wrenchers. > > > > Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer > that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power > daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill > has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply > installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s > as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his > existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found > numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. > > > > Thx > > Peter Giroux > > American Solar > > 678 525 0468 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Wed May 27 07:39:44 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2026 07:39:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <000e01dcedcd$84ca95e0$8e5fc1a0$@mindspring.com> Thank you From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of David Coale via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2026 12:09 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: David Coale Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help Third on the Emporia monitor. The other thing about the Emporia system, is that with the EV charger, which is highly rated, you can have the monitor and EV charger work together to charge on excess solar instead of selling it back to the grid. This is the cheap way to help future proof your PV system against NEM 3. Just put the excess solar in the EV for use later on. This does mean you have to be able to charge from home during the day. David On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 3:46 PM Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches > wrote: I'll second Chris' advice for the Emporia Vue. Very affordable and can be installed in about 1-2 hours at most in many cases. Affordable enough that it would likely be cheaper to leave in place than return to remove it. Bonus to have the platform already in place if they're going to add the Emporia EV charger as well. Good luck, Nick On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 3:38 PM Blair May via RE-wrenches > wrote: We rent power data loggers from these folks. Reasonable and professional. trs-rentelco.com Blair "Tump" May On Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches > wrote: My fellow wrenchers. Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. Thx Peter Giroux American Solar 678 525 0468 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Wed May 27 07:39:53 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2026 07:39:53 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: <003f01dced59$fba57870$f2f06950$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <001301dcedcd$89b80790$9d2816b0$@mindspring.com> Thank you From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2026 2:14 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help Wrenches, Glen. When l need to sub meter i just use a meter socket box and revenue grade meter, simple. Now if you want sophisticated then an E guage with web based monitoring a platform. Fun times On Tue, May 26, 2026, 3:03 PM Glenn via RE-wrenches > wrote: I have used a Sense monitor on my house for years. They have a few different options now days -Glenn On May 26, 2026 17:52, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches > wrote: My fellow wrenchers. Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. Thx Peter Giroux American Solar 678 525 0468 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Wed May 27 07:41:19 2026 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Wed, 27 May 2026 07:41:19 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help In-Reply-To: References: <5D168022-F138-4953-98AB-2C243E131D6E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001801dcedcd$bd8ceb80$38a6c280$@mindspring.com> Thank you From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of All Solar via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2026 7:25 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: All Solar Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Need a bit of help Use an emporia vue energy monitoring set up. You can get one that just meters the main lines with 2 CTs Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 4:52 PM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: I agree Then the customer has real time monitoring going into the future. On May 26, 2026, at 3:46 PM, Nick Lucchese via RE-wrenches > wrote:  I'll second Chris' advice for the Emporia Vue. Very affordable and can be installed in about 1-2 hours at most in many cases. Affordable enough that it would likely be cheaper to leave in place than return to remove it. Bonus to have the platform already in place if they're going to add the Emporia EV charger as well. Good luck, Nick On Tue, May 26, 2026 at 3:38 PM Blair May via RE-wrenches > wrote: We rent power data loggers from these folks. Reasonable and professional. trs-rentelco.com Blair "Tump" May On Tue, May 26, 2026, 5:53 PM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches > wrote: My fellow wrenchers. Looking for a simple, cost effective, mobile KW meter. Have a customer that has built 3 additional buildings on his property that draw power daily. All wired into his primary service and cannot figure why his bill has more than tripled. Would like to find a KW meter that could be simply installed and monitored for a month on each building, giving him hard #’s as to what each building is using, then working a simple expansion of his existing solar system. Any and all ideas are appreciated. I have found numerous meters but no reviews and no one to answer any questions. Thx Peter Giroux American Solar 678 525 0468 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Thu May 28 12:25:53 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 09:25:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar Message-ID: Trying to wrap my brain around exactly what this entails. Specifically in Colorado, as that's where I still do most of my design work, but also in other places if it's different/better/worse/etc.... This is the actual text of the Colorado bill https://leg.colorado.gov/bill_files/116074/download >From reading it... it appears that it's limited to 1920 watts AC output, and limited to one system per address. Systems under 391 watts AC output are exempt from a number of other requirements (which seem to pertain mostly to NABCEP certified supervisors and licensed electricians), but still have to be UL listed. Does that imply that licensed electricians or NABCEP certified installers must install ones between 391 watts and 1920 watts? It appears that utilities cannot require approval, a fee, or any modifications to the house electrical system (4a) but can require being notified of the installation and size (4b) I am wondering how this works with ratcheted meters, which is the norm nowadays in Colorado. I have asked Xcel for their guidance on this. In general... the idea of balcony solar seems very problematic. While I'm totally in support of more solar on the grid, and making smaller systems more doable, I have lots of questions on how this will work in reality. 1) Structural issues: Most homeowners do not know how to properly mount solar panels against the winds that we have in Colorado. It's normal for cars and neighbors to be assulted by wandering trash cans during every windstorm... adding errant solar modules to this doesn't seem like a good idea. Most temporary solar racking I've seen from manfucturers (from RV solar sellers mostly) is completely inadequate to withstand 100+mph winds as well. How will proper securing of the solar modules be enforced? 2) Electrical integration: 1920 watts is a fully loaded 20A 120 volt output (16A continuous). If it is a new, high quality outlet, it should be good for that, but what if it is a old outlet on the deck that's gotten all loose from 30 years of power tools and christmas lights being plugged and unplugged? What if it's the $1.99 consumer version of the outlet, not the $8.99 commercial version? I've seen the cheaper ones, and many old loose ones, burn up when used with electric space heaters, which is a similar amperage and time span load to a full size balcony solar system. 3) Metering: Since most all utilities in Colorado now use ratcheted meters, it will be a problem if the system exports without somehow getting a bidirectional meter. If it is a lightly loaded apartment, where a 1920 watt system would really make a different in energy use, then it's likely the baseload will be below 1920 watts midday, and it needs to export. If it's a larger house where the baseload midday is over 1920 watts, then export isn't the issue, but the problem is that people will install a 1920 watt system when they really need a 5 or 8 or 12kW system to affect their bill much -- and then they'll just decide that "solar doesn't work" and it will give solar a bad name for more people. Given that most people don't understand kWh and energy use, and marketing always seems to overpromise what equipment can do, I don't expect that a majority of consumers will understand that a 1920 watt system is not sufficient to make a significant impact for a majority of houses out there. I've even had customers install 10kW systems, and not understand that by adding a hot tub and electric water heater and heat pump and electric range at the same time, they overwhelmed the production of the system, and that's why their bill actually went up. 4) Licensure and permits: This could solve some of the issues above... but Colorado allows homeowners to pull permits so licensure and training of the installer is still no guaranteed. And most building departments have a permitting process that's aimed at larger systems... a large system requiring 10 pages of documentation and an engineers stamp and a $500 permit fee is not unreasonable. But for a $2000 balcony kit... how can permitting enforce some basic standards, without becoming a insurmountable hurdle. Also, as a professional installer, I found that fixed costs were a large portion of the cost of installing a system. My cost to do drawings, get a PE stamp for the roof/racking, file for a permit, file for interconnection agreement, and roll a truck were pretty much the same for a 3kW system or a 10kW system. There was more onsite labor for the 10kW system doing racking and modules, but even electrical wiring was about the same onsite labor for both sizes. Onsite labor should be much less for a balcony solar system, especially if plugging into a deck outlet (replacing it with a brand new commercial quality 20A outlet maybe). But costs for drawings, permitting, interconnection won't be different unless a different system is made. Materials are obviously more for the larger systems, but labor made the overall total cost quite a bit higher per watt for the smaller systems, and going to a one or two panel system could be even more share for the off-site labor portion of the total cost. If building departments and utilities put the balcony solar systems through the same paperwork as larger systems, I can easily see that costing more than the materials or onsite labor. -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu May 28 15:10:27 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 12:10:27 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Thu May 28 15:51:40 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 12:51:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes... if the PV is not on the last outlet in the string, there is the potential for overloading a portion of the string if someone plugged in more than 16A of heavy loads farther out on the string -- the wire portion between the PV backfeed and the next outlet could have more amperage on it. Same issue as when your backfed breaker isn't on on the opposite end of the busbar from the grid feed. I remember the OK4U inverter from Trace. Back when mechanical meters just spun backwards. It was discontinued before I ever lived somewhere with grid power, so never got to use one. Then they started putting electronic readers on the mechanical meters, and they only counted how many times the black line went by, not which direction, so were effectively ratcheted, and I believe all of the standard electronic ones now are ratcheted in the software. Or, they're smartmeters that immediately report back if you sell a few watts ever. I've seen people run into that numerous times when self consumption systems blipped below 0 watts during load changes, when the inverter wasn't programmed for enough baseload draw from the grid. On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 12:27 PM Bryan Norkunas wrote: > Was this considered balcony solar back in 1998? > > Bryan Norkunas > PV-Cables, Inc. > 989 Milton Ave Ste 1-D > Ferndale, CA 95536 > 707-923-3000 office > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jay via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2026 12:10:27 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jay ; Zeke Yewdall ; > RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar > > Hi Zeke > > I see a few issues. > > If there is a circuit with A as the first outlet then B,C,d. If the 16A is > put into B then C and D now have the potential for 36 amps. Bit high for 12 > ga wire. > > As to the meters as far as I know most all meters unless configured for > bidirectional use either are mechanical ratcheting so they cant count > backwards. Or are electronic and I’m unclear as to what happens. I e heard > they count up either direction so if your selling power the meter adds or > it might just lock like the ratcheting. I guess depending on the meter. > > Finally I live in an all electric house and for most of the year, 8+ > months when I’m not using heat, my daytime base loads are like 200 watts. > Of course if someone is home then could be laundry etc. > > A small system say 400 watts or less is going to be mostly used for some > daytime self consumption. But 2000 watts is way overkill and for most it > seems it will be wasted for the consumer. And as you say it’ll make people > mad about how little it’s doing. > > Finally as to dates. I had a OK4U made by NKF back in 2000 grid tie micro > inverter for a single 100 watt panel plugged into an outlet on my deck. I > keep reading it’s a new idea, nope. > > Big push lots of hype. > > > > On May 28, 2026, at 9:40 AM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Trying to wrap my brain around exactly what this entails. Specifically in > Colorado, as that's where I still do most of my design work, but also in > other places if it's different/better/worse/etc.... > > This is the actual text of the Colorado bill > https://leg.colorado.gov/bill_files/116074/download > > From reading it... it appears that it's limited to 1920 watts AC output, > and limited to one system per address. Systems under 391 watts AC output > are exempt from a number of other requirements (which seem to pertain > mostly to NABCEP certified supervisors and licensed electricians), but > still have to be UL listed. Does that imply that licensed electricians or > NABCEP certified installers must install ones between 391 watts and 1920 > watts? > > It appears that utilities cannot require approval, a fee, or any > modifications to the house electrical system (4a) but can require being > notified of the installation and size (4b) > > I am wondering how this works with ratcheted meters, which is the norm > nowadays in Colorado. I have asked Xcel for their guidance on this. > > In general... the idea of balcony solar seems very problematic. While I'm > totally in support of more solar on the grid, and making smaller systems > more doable, I have lots of questions on how this will work in reality. > > 1) Structural issues: Most homeowners do not know how to properly mount > solar panels against the winds that we have in Colorado. It's normal for > cars and neighbors to be assulted by wandering trash cans during every > windstorm... adding errant solar modules to this doesn't seem like a good > idea. Most temporary solar racking I've seen from manfucturers (from RV > solar sellers mostly) is completely inadequate to withstand 100+mph winds > as well. How will proper securing of the solar modules be enforced? > > 2) Electrical integration: 1920 watts is a fully loaded 20A 120 volt > output (16A continuous). If it is a new, high quality outlet, it should be > good for that, but what if it is a old outlet on the deck that's gotten all > loose from 30 years of power tools and christmas lights being plugged and > unplugged? What if it's the $1.99 consumer version of the outlet, not the > $8.99 commercial version? I've seen the cheaper ones, and many old loose > ones, burn up when used with electric space heaters, which is a similar > amperage and time span load to a full size balcony solar system. > > 3) Metering: Since most all utilities in Colorado now use ratcheted > meters, it will be a problem if the system exports without somehow getting > a bidirectional meter. If it is a lightly loaded apartment, where a 1920 > watt system would really make a different in energy use, then it's likely > the baseload will be below 1920 watts midday, and it needs to export. If > it's a larger house where the baseload midday is over 1920 watts, then > export isn't the issue, but the problem is that people will install a 1920 > watt system when they really need a 5 or 8 or 12kW system to affect their > bill much -- and then they'll just decide that "solar doesn't work" and it > will give solar a bad name for more people. Given that most people don't > understand kWh and energy use, and marketing always seems to overpromise > what equipment can do, I don't expect that a majority of consumers will > understand that a 1920 watt system is not sufficient to make a significant > impact for a majority of houses out there. I've even had customers install > 10kW systems, and not understand that by adding a hot tub and electric > water heater and heat pump and electric range at the same time, they > overwhelmed the production of the system, and that's why their bill > actually went up. > > 4) Licensure and permits: This could solve some of the issues above... > but Colorado allows homeowners to pull permits so licensure and training of > the installer is still no guaranteed. And most building departments have a > permitting process that's aimed at larger systems... a large system > requiring 10 pages of documentation and an engineers stamp and a $500 > permit fee is not unreasonable. But for a $2000 balcony kit... how can > permitting enforce some basic standards, without becoming a insurmountable > hurdle. Also, as a professional installer, I found that fixed costs were > a large portion of the cost of installing a system. My cost to do > drawings, get a PE stamp for the roof/racking, file for a permit, file for > interconnection agreement, and roll a truck were pretty much the same for a > 3kW system or a 10kW system. There was more onsite labor for the 10kW > system doing racking and modules, but even electrical wiring was about the > same onsite labor for both sizes. Onsite labor should be much less for a > balcony solar system, especially if plugging into a deck outlet (replacing > it with a brand new commercial quality 20A outlet maybe). But costs for > drawings, permitting, interconnection won't be different unless a different > system is made. Materials are obviously more for the larger systems, but > labor made the overall total cost quite a bit higher per watt for the > smaller systems, and going to a one or two panel system could be even more > share for the off-site labor portion of the total cost. If building > departments and utilities put the balcony solar systems through the same > paperwork as larger systems, I can easily see that costing more than the > materials or onsite labor. > > > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Thu May 28 16:21:02 2026 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 13:21:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin post: Off topic posts and message size restrictions Message-ID: <1779999700804.40b6587922d20cc6@re-wrenches.org> Hi there. If you have any questions or concerns, please email me off-list. Message sizes are restricted to 4 megabytes (4,000 kb). That includes text and any file attachments. Any larger message will be held by the server and sent to me for review. And a reminder to not post off topic items. 1. Don't post jokes, thanks, apologies, simple agreements, news items, chit-chat, events, politics, marketing, virus info, leads, jobs, items for sale, or anything else that is off-topic. 2. Don't respond on-list to others' off topic posts. 3. Don't post items that are available for sale or free, but it's OK to send them to the RE-Markets list. 3a. From time to time people post items that they need but are having problems locating (like an older model PV module to replace a broken one), but these requests should be responded to off-list. And these requests should state within them, something like: "if you have one, please contact me off list." 4. If you have a message that is intended for individuals who are on the list, like "thanks" or "yes, I have one of those things you are looking for," don't send it to the whole list -- just send it to the individuals. 5. Do not post administrative inquiries, but rather send them to me off-list. 6. Never post leads or job openings of any kind on the list. Thank-you. From bryan at pv-cables.com Thu May 28 15:27:27 2026 From: bryan at pv-cables.com (Bryan Norkunas) Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 19:27:27 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Was this considered balcony solar back in 1998? Bryan Norkunas PV-Cables, Inc. 989 Milton Ave Ste 1-D Ferndale, CA 95536 707-923-3000 office ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2026 12:10:27 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jay ; Zeke Yewdall ; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar Hi Zeke I see a few issues. If there is a circuit with A as the first outlet then B,C,d. If the 16A is put into B then C and D now have the potential for 36 amps. Bit high for 12 ga wire. As to the meters as far as I know most all meters unless configured for bidirectional use either are mechanical ratcheting so they cant count backwards. Or are electronic and I’m unclear as to what happens. I e heard they count up either direction so if your selling power the meter adds or it might just lock like the ratcheting. I guess depending on the meter. Finally I live in an all electric house and for most of the year, 8+ months when I’m not using heat, my daytime base loads are like 200 watts. Of course if someone is home then could be laundry etc. A small system say 400 watts or less is going to be mostly used for some daytime self consumption. But 2000 watts is way overkill and for most it seems it will be wasted for the consumer. And as you say it’ll make people mad about how little it’s doing. Finally as to dates. I had a OK4U made by NKF back in 2000 grid tie micro inverter for a single 100 watt panel plugged into an outlet on my deck. I keep reading it’s a new idea, nope. Big push lots of hype. On May 28, 2026, at 9:40 AM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote:  Trying to wrap my brain around exactly what this entails. Specifically in Colorado, as that's where I still do most of my design work, but also in other places if it's different/better/worse/etc.... This is the actual text of the Colorado bill https://leg.colorado.gov/bill_files/116074/download From reading it... it appears that it's limited to 1920 watts AC output, and limited to one system per address. Systems under 391 watts AC output are exempt from a number of other requirements (which seem to pertain mostly to NABCEP certified supervisors and licensed electricians), but still have to be UL listed. Does that imply that licensed electricians or NABCEP certified installers must install ones between 391 watts and 1920 watts? It appears that utilities cannot require approval, a fee, or any modifications to the house electrical system (4a) but can require being notified of the installation and size (4b) I am wondering how this works with ratcheted meters, which is the norm nowadays in Colorado. I have asked Xcel for their guidance on this. In general... the idea of balcony solar seems very problematic. While I'm totally in support of more solar on the grid, and making smaller systems more doable, I have lots of questions on how this will work in reality. 1) Structural issues: Most homeowners do not know how to properly mount solar panels against the winds that we have in Colorado. It's normal for cars and neighbors to be assulted by wandering trash cans during every windstorm... adding errant solar modules to this doesn't seem like a good idea. Most temporary solar racking I've seen from manfucturers (from RV solar sellers mostly) is completely inadequate to withstand 100+mph winds as well. How will proper securing of the solar modules be enforced? 2) Electrical integration: 1920 watts is a fully loaded 20A 120 volt output (16A continuous). If it is a new, high quality outlet, it should be good for that, but what if it is a old outlet on the deck that's gotten all loose from 30 years of power tools and christmas lights being plugged and unplugged? What if it's the $1.99 consumer version of the outlet, not the $8.99 commercial version? I've seen the cheaper ones, and many old loose ones, burn up when used with electric space heaters, which is a similar amperage and time span load to a full size balcony solar system. 3) Metering: Since most all utilities in Colorado now use ratcheted meters, it will be a problem if the system exports without somehow getting a bidirectional meter. If it is a lightly loaded apartment, where a 1920 watt system would really make a different in energy use, then it's likely the baseload will be below 1920 watts midday, and it needs to export. If it's a larger house where the baseload midday is over 1920 watts, then export isn't the issue, but the problem is that people will install a 1920 watt system when they really need a 5 or 8 or 12kW system to affect their bill much -- and then they'll just decide that "solar doesn't work" and it will give solar a bad name for more people. Given that most people don't understand kWh and energy use, and marketing always seems to overpromise what equipment can do, I don't expect that a majority of consumers will understand that a 1920 watt system is not sufficient to make a significant impact for a majority of houses out there. I've even had customers install 10kW systems, and not understand that by adding a hot tub and electric water heater and heat pump and electric range at the same time, they overwhelmed the production of the system, and that's why their bill actually went up. 4) Licensure and permits: This could solve some of the issues above... but Colorado allows homeowners to pull permits so licensure and training of the installer is still no guaranteed. And most building departments have a permitting process that's aimed at larger systems... a large system requiring 10 pages of documentation and an engineers stamp and a $500 permit fee is not unreasonable. But for a $2000 balcony kit... how can permitting enforce some basic standards, without becoming a insurmountable hurdle. Also, as a professional installer, I found that fixed costs were a large portion of the cost of installing a system. My cost to do drawings, get a PE stamp for the roof/racking, file for a permit, file for interconnection agreement, and roll a truck were pretty much the same for a 3kW system or a 10kW system. There was more onsite labor for the 10kW system doing racking and modules, but even electrical wiring was about the same onsite labor for both sizes. Onsite labor should be much less for a balcony solar system, especially if plugging into a deck outlet (replacing it with a brand new commercial quality 20A outlet maybe). But costs for drawings, permitting, interconnection won't be different unless a different system is made. Materials are obviously more for the larger systems, but labor made the overall total cost quite a bit higher per watt for the smaller systems, and going to a one or two panel system could be even more share for the off-site labor portion of the total cost. If building departments and utilities put the balcony solar systems through the same paperwork as larger systems, I can easily see that costing more than the materials or onsite labor. -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1000010073.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 274462 bytes Desc: 1000010073.jpg URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Thu May 28 22:27:10 2026 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 22:27:10 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Automating generator transfer from one generator to another. In-Reply-To: <1779999700804.40b6587922d20cc6@re-wrenches.org> References: <1779999700804.40b6587922d20cc6@re-wrenches.org> Message-ID: I have several customers asking about auto switching generators. Typically I wire up off grid generators with a manual transfer switch to another generator or a short cord with a male twist lock plug. Both AC output and two wire auto start need to be switched. Anyone know of any off the shelf equipment that can do this? John Blittersdorf On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 4:25 PM Michael Welch via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi there. If you have any questions or concerns, please email me off-list. > > Message sizes are restricted to 4 megabytes (4,000 kb). That includes text > and any file attachments. Any larger message will be held by the server and > sent to me for review. > > And a reminder to not post off topic items. > > 1. Don't post jokes, thanks, apologies, simple agreements, news items, > chit-chat, events, politics, marketing, virus info, leads, jobs, items for > sale, or anything else that is off-topic. > > 2. Don't respond on-list to others' off topic posts. > > 3. Don't post items that are available for sale or free, but it's OK to > send them to the RE-Markets list. > > 3a. From time to time people post items that they need but are having > problems locating (like an older model PV module to replace a broken one), > but these requests should be responded to off-list. And these requests > should state within them, something like: "if you have one, please contact > me off list." > > 4. If you have a message that is intended for individuals who are on the > list, like "thanks" or "yes, I have one of those things you are looking > for," don't send it to the whole list -- just send it to the individuals. > > 5. Do not post administrative inquiries, but rather send them to me > off-list. > > 6. Never post leads or job openings of any kind on the list. > > Thank-you. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Thu May 28 23:36:54 2026 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Thu, 28 May 2026 20:36:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Automating generator transfer from one generator to another. In-Reply-To: References: <1779999700804.40b6587922d20cc6@re-wrenches.org> Message-ID: I use alternating relays from macomatic for the start signal. Mainly to balance hours between two generators. Gen A runs, then next time it's Gen B. I'll usually make a control circuit so that if the generator that is called to start, doesn't, the alternate generator starts. The ATS see's voltage at either S1 or S2 terminals and switches to which ever one is energized, so no control circuit there.If the device or inverter that initiates the start command does not have the ability to end with a cool down period (essential for modern diesel gensets) then I'll control the start stop circuit with a time delay relay and contacor. It's a bit complicated but it goes like this: two wire start circuit closes, simultaneously that circuit closes a relay controlling a contactor on the load side of the ATS. Loads are powered. Two wire circuit opens (stop), contactor de energizes (load passed off to inverter while a time delay relay is triggered for off delay in the generator start circuit for cooldown. On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 7:28 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have several customers asking about auto switching generators. Typically > I wire up off grid generators with a manual transfer switch to another > generator or a short cord with a male twist lock plug. Both AC output and > two wire auto start need to be switched. > Anyone know of any off the shelf > equipment that can do this? > > John Blittersdorf > > > > On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 4:25 PM Michael Welch via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi there. If you have any questions or concerns, please email me off-list. >> >> Message sizes are restricted to 4 megabytes (4,000 kb). That includes >> text and any file attachments. Any larger message will be held by the >> server and sent to me for review. >> >> And a reminder to not post off topic items. >> >> 1. Don't post jokes, thanks, apologies, simple agreements, news items, >> chit-chat, events, politics, marketing, virus info, leads, jobs, items for >> sale, or anything else that is off-topic. >> >> 2. Don't respond on-list to others' off topic posts. >> >> 3. Don't post items that are available for sale or free, but it's OK to >> send them to the RE-Markets list. >> >> 3a. From time to time people post items that they need but are having >> problems locating (like an older model PV module to replace a broken one), >> but these requests should be responded to off-list. And these requests >> should state within them, something like: "if you have one, please contact >> me off list." >> >> 4. If you have a message that is intended for individuals who are on the >> list, like "thanks" or "yes, I have one of those things you are looking >> for," don't send it to the whole list -- just send it to the individuals. >> >> 5. Do not post administrative inquiries, but rather send them to me >> off-list. >> >> 6. Never post leads or job openings of any kind on the list. >> >> Thank-you. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric Inc PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 1116835 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri May 29 07:55:50 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 29 May 2026 07:55:50 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Somebody coined the term "breaker masking" for this issue. https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/is-plug-in-solar-safe-the-wiring-danger-that-marketing-will-not-tell-you-about Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 3:55 PM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Yes... if the PV is not on the last outlet in the string, there is the > potential for overloading a portion of the string if someone plugged in > more than 16A of heavy loads farther out on the string -- the wire portion > between the PV backfeed and the next outlet could have more amperage on > it. Same issue as when your backfed breaker isn't on on the opposite end > of the busbar from the grid feed. > > I remember the OK4U inverter from Trace. Back when mechanical meters just > spun backwards. It was discontinued before I ever lived somewhere with > grid power, so never got to use one. > > Then they started putting electronic readers on the mechanical meters, and > they only counted how many times the black line went by, not which > direction, so were effectively ratcheted, and I believe all of the standard > electronic ones now are ratcheted in the software. Or, they're smartmeters > that immediately report back if you sell a few watts ever. I've seen > people run into that numerous times when self consumption systems blipped > below 0 watts during load changes, when the inverter wasn't programmed for > enough baseload draw from the grid. > > On Thu, May 28, 2026 at 12:27 PM Bryan Norkunas > wrote: > >> Was this considered balcony solar back in 1998? >> >> Bryan Norkunas >> PV-Cables, Inc. >> 989 Milton Ave Ste 1-D >> Ferndale, CA 95536 >> 707-923-3000 office >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* RE-wrenches on >> behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2026 12:10:27 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Jay ; Zeke Yewdall ; >> RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar >> >> Hi Zeke >> >> I see a few issues. >> >> If there is a circuit with A as the first outlet then B,C,d. If the 16A >> is put into B then C and D now have the potential for 36 amps. Bit high for >> 12 ga wire. >> >> As to the meters as far as I know most all meters unless configured for >> bidirectional use either are mechanical ratcheting so they cant count >> backwards. Or are electronic and I’m unclear as to what happens. I e heard >> they count up either direction so if your selling power the meter adds or >> it might just lock like the ratcheting. I guess depending on the meter. >> >> Finally I live in an all electric house and for most of the year, 8+ >> months when I’m not using heat, my daytime base loads are like 200 watts. >> Of course if someone is home then could be laundry etc. >> >> A small system say 400 watts or less is going to be mostly used for some >> daytime self consumption. But 2000 watts is way overkill and for most it >> seems it will be wasted for the consumer. And as you say it’ll make people >> mad about how little it’s doing. >> >> Finally as to dates. I had a OK4U made by NKF back in 2000 grid tie micro >> inverter for a single 100 watt panel plugged into an outlet on my deck. I >> keep reading it’s a new idea, nope. >> >> Big push lots of hype. >> >> >> >> On May 28, 2026, at 9:40 AM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> Trying to wrap my brain around exactly what this entails. Specifically >> in Colorado, as that's where I still do most of my design work, but also in >> other places if it's different/better/worse/etc.... >> >> This is the actual text of the Colorado bill >> https://leg.colorado.gov/bill_files/116074/download >> >> From reading it... it appears that it's limited to 1920 watts AC output, >> and limited to one system per address. Systems under 391 watts AC output >> are exempt from a number of other requirements (which seem to pertain >> mostly to NABCEP certified supervisors and licensed electricians), but >> still have to be UL listed. Does that imply that licensed electricians or >> NABCEP certified installers must install ones between 391 watts and 1920 >> watts? >> >> It appears that utilities cannot require approval, a fee, or any >> modifications to the house electrical system (4a) but can require being >> notified of the installation and size (4b) >> >> I am wondering how this works with ratcheted meters, which is the norm >> nowadays in Colorado. I have asked Xcel for their guidance on this. >> >> In general... the idea of balcony solar seems very problematic. While >> I'm totally in support of more solar on the grid, and making smaller >> systems more doable, I have lots of questions on how this will work in >> reality. >> >> 1) Structural issues: Most homeowners do not know how to properly mount >> solar panels against the winds that we have in Colorado. It's normal for >> cars and neighbors to be assulted by wandering trash cans during every >> windstorm... adding errant solar modules to this doesn't seem like a good >> idea. Most temporary solar racking I've seen from manfucturers (from RV >> solar sellers mostly) is completely inadequate to withstand 100+mph winds >> as well. How will proper securing of the solar modules be enforced? >> >> 2) Electrical integration: 1920 watts is a fully loaded 20A 120 volt >> output (16A continuous). If it is a new, high quality outlet, it should be >> good for that, but what if it is a old outlet on the deck that's gotten all >> loose from 30 years of power tools and christmas lights being plugged and >> unplugged? What if it's the $1.99 consumer version of the outlet, not the >> $8.99 commercial version? I've seen the cheaper ones, and many old loose >> ones, burn up when used with electric space heaters, which is a similar >> amperage and time span load to a full size balcony solar system. >> >> 3) Metering: Since most all utilities in Colorado now use ratcheted >> meters, it will be a problem if the system exports without somehow getting >> a bidirectional meter. If it is a lightly loaded apartment, where a 1920 >> watt system would really make a different in energy use, then it's likely >> the baseload will be below 1920 watts midday, and it needs to export. If >> it's a larger house where the baseload midday is over 1920 watts, then >> export isn't the issue, but the problem is that people will install a 1920 >> watt system when they really need a 5 or 8 or 12kW system to affect their >> bill much -- and then they'll just decide that "solar doesn't work" and it >> will give solar a bad name for more people. Given that most people don't >> understand kWh and energy use, and marketing always seems to overpromise >> what equipment can do, I don't expect that a majority of consumers will >> understand that a 1920 watt system is not sufficient to make a significant >> impact for a majority of houses out there. I've even had customers install >> 10kW systems, and not understand that by adding a hot tub and electric >> water heater and heat pump and electric range at the same time, they >> overwhelmed the production of the system, and that's why their bill >> actually went up. >> >> 4) Licensure and permits: This could solve some of the issues above... >> but Colorado allows homeowners to pull permits so licensure and training of >> the installer is still no guaranteed. And most building departments have a >> permitting process that's aimed at larger systems... a large system >> requiring 10 pages of documentation and an engineers stamp and a $500 >> permit fee is not unreasonable. But for a $2000 balcony kit... how can >> permitting enforce some basic standards, without becoming a insurmountable >> hurdle. Also, as a professional installer, I found that fixed costs were >> a large portion of the cost of installing a system. My cost to do >> drawings, get a PE stamp for the roof/racking, file for a permit, file for >> interconnection agreement, and roll a truck were pretty much the same for a >> 3kW system or a 10kW system. There was more onsite labor for the 10kW >> system doing racking and modules, but even electrical wiring was about the >> same onsite labor for both sizes. Onsite labor should be much less for a >> balcony solar system, especially if plugging into a deck outlet (replacing >> it with a brand new commercial quality 20A outlet maybe). But costs for >> drawings, permitting, interconnection won't be different unless a different >> system is made. Materials are obviously more for the larger systems, but >> labor made the overall total cost quite a bit higher per watt for the >> smaller systems, and going to a one or two panel system could be even more >> share for the off-site labor portion of the total cost. If building >> departments and utilities put the balcony solar systems through the same >> paperwork as larger systems, I can easily see that costing more than the >> materials or onsite labor. >> >> >> >> -- >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri May 29 10:10:03 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 29 May 2026 10:10:03 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Home Power Magazine had articles about it, and called it Guerilla Solar. _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ --- On 2026-05-28 15:10, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Zeke > > I see a few issues. > > If there is a circuit with A as the first outlet then B,C,d. If the 16A > is put into B then C and D now have the potential for 36 amps. Bit high > for 12 ga wire. > > As to the meters as far as I know most all meters unless configured for > bidirectional use either are mechanical ratcheting so they cant count > backwards. Or are electronic and I'm unclear as to what happens. I e > heard they count up either direction so if your selling power the meter > adds or it might just lock like the ratcheting. I guess depending on > the meter. > > Finally I live in an all electric house and for most of the year, 8+ > months when I'm not using heat, my daytime base loads are like 200 > watts. Of course if someone is home then could be laundry etc. > > A small system say 400 watts or less is going to be mostly used for > some daytime self consumption. But 2000 watts is way overkill and for > most it seems it will be wasted for the consumer. And as you say it'll > make people mad about how little it's doing. > > Finally as to dates. I had a OK4U made by NKF back in 2000 grid tie > micro inverter for a single 100 watt panel plugged into an outlet on my > deck. I keep reading it's a new idea, nope. > > Big push lots of hype. > >> On May 28, 2026, at 9:40 AM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches >> wrote: > >> Trying to wrap my brain around exactly what this entails. >> Specifically in Colorado, as that's where I still do most of my design >> work, but also in other places if it's different/better/worse/etc.... >> >> This is the actual text of the Colorado bill >> https://leg.colorado.gov/bill_files/116074/download >> >> From reading it... it appears that it's limited to 1920 watts AC >> output, and limited to one system per address. Systems under 391 >> watts AC output are exempt from a number of other requirements (which >> seem to pertain mostly to NABCEP certified supervisors and licensed >> electricians), but still have to be UL listed. Does that imply that >> licensed electricians or NABCEP certified installers must install ones >> between 391 watts and 1920 watts? >> >> It appears that utilities cannot require approval, a fee, or any >> modifications to the house electrical system (4a) but can require >> being notified of the installation and size (4b) >> >> I am wondering how this works with ratcheted meters, which is the norm >> nowadays in Colorado. I have asked Xcel for their guidance on this. >> >> In general... the idea of balcony solar seems very problematic. While >> I'm totally in support of more solar on the grid, and making smaller >> systems more doable, I have lots of questions on how this will work in >> reality. >> >> 1) Structural issues: Most homeowners do not know how to properly >> mount solar panels against the winds that we have in Colorado. It's >> normal for cars and neighbors to be assulted by wandering trash cans >> during every windstorm... adding errant solar modules to this doesn't >> seem like a good idea. Most temporary solar racking I've seen from >> manfucturers (from RV solar sellers mostly) is completely inadequate >> to withstand 100+mph winds as well. How will proper securing of the >> solar modules be enforced? >> >> 2) Electrical integration: 1920 watts is a fully loaded 20A 120 volt >> output (16A continuous). If it is a new, high quality outlet, it >> should be good for that, but what if it is a old outlet on the deck >> that's gotten all loose from 30 years of power tools and christmas >> lights being plugged and unplugged? What if it's the $1.99 consumer >> version of the outlet, not the $8.99 commercial version? I've seen >> the cheaper ones, and many old loose ones, burn up when used with >> electric space heaters, which is a similar amperage and time span load >> to a full size balcony solar system. >> >> 3) Metering: Since most all utilities in Colorado now use ratcheted >> meters, it will be a problem if the system exports without somehow >> getting a bidirectional meter. If it is a lightly loaded apartment, >> where a 1920 watt system would really make a different in energy use, >> then it's likely the baseload will be below 1920 watts midday, and it >> needs to export. If it's a larger house where the baseload midday is >> over 1920 watts, then export isn't the issue, but the problem is that >> people will install a 1920 watt system when they really need a 5 or 8 >> or 12kW system to affect their bill much -- and then they'll just >> decide that "solar doesn't work" and it will give solar a bad name for >> more people. Given that most people don't understand kWh and energy >> use, and marketing always seems to overpromise what equipment can do, >> I don't expect that a majority of consumers will understand that a >> 1920 watt system is not sufficient to make a significant impact for a >> majority of houses out there. I've even had customers install 10kW >> systems, and not understand that by adding a hot tub and electric >> water heater and heat pump and electric range at the same time, they >> overwhelmed the production of the system, and that's why their bill >> actually went up. >> >> 4) Licensure and permits: This could solve some of the issues >> above... but Colorado allows homeowners to pull permits so licensure >> and training of the installer is still no guaranteed. And most >> building departments have a permitting process that's aimed at larger >> systems... a large system requiring 10 pages of documentation and an >> engineers stamp and a $500 permit fee is not unreasonable. But for a >> $2000 balcony kit... how can permitting enforce some basic standards, >> without becoming a insurmountable hurdle. Also, as a professional >> installer, I found that fixed costs were a large portion of the cost >> of installing a system. My cost to do drawings, get a PE stamp for >> the roof/racking, file for a permit, file for interconnection >> agreement, and roll a truck were pretty much the same for a 3kW system >> or a 10kW system. There was more onsite labor for the 10kW system >> doing racking and modules, but even electrical wiring was about the >> same onsite labor for both sizes. Onsite labor should be much less >> for a balcony solar system, especially if plugging into a deck outlet >> (replacing it with a brand new commercial quality 20A outlet maybe). >> But costs for drawings, permitting, interconnection won't be different >> unless a different system is made. Materials are obviously more for >> the larger systems, but labor made the overall total cost quite a bit >> higher per watt for the smaller systems, and going to a one or two >> panel system could be even more share for the off-site labor portion >> of the total cost. If building departments and utilities put the >> balcony solar systems through the same paperwork as larger systems, I >> can easily see that costing more than the materials or onsite labor. >> >> -- >> >> Zeke Yewdall >> PV Engineer >> NABCEP #031508-89 >> zeke at darkforestsolar.com >> 303-523-3592 _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri May 29 16:40:52 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 29 May 2026 16:40:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Midnite Power AIO Inverter Aggregated Data (Installer View in App) Message-ID: They said it couldn't be done. Well, not exactly, but they said it would require a lot of changes to the app and server. Nonsense. In two hours, I reverse-engineered the API and now have a working aggregation app that shows totals from all 4 Midnite AIO at a site. I don't understand why Midnite, EG4, and others can't get simple app development right. I'm a total noob, and I was able to accomplish this. Companies like Enphase and Tesla present impressive apps, and that trickles down to sales. The importance of data and a polished appearance can't be understated. It's 2026. The data is there. It's dead simple to present it to us. DO IT! Screenshots of a real system being monitored are attached. If I can do it, why can't they do it? P.S. Midnite crew - please don't shut me down! This data is pretty awesome! :) Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Image 1849.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 237245 bytes Desc: not available URL: From palumbo131m at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 16:30:44 2026 From: palumbo131m at gmail.com (David Palumbo) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 20:30:44 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Digital LA Battery Electrolyte Tester Message-ID: Wrenches, Looking for advice on digital electrolyte refractometers for testing lead acid specific gravity. I have never used a digital refractometer. Only the old school refractometers that are not that easy to read accurately. Digital units vary tremendously in price. And I'm wondering how difficult it is to clean/neutralize the chamber where the electrolyte drops go? I need to test multiple cells and get accurate readings on every cell. Has anybody here used one of these, and can you share advice on this topic? David Palumbo Hyde Park, VT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Jun 1 18:21:57 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 15:21:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Digital LA Battery Electrolyte Tester In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David: https://www.misco.com/refractometer-applications/battery-refractometer/ I use a narrow plastic pipette/dropper. I just suck the sample back out of the sample well after reading and squirt it back in the cell it came from. I don’t clean out the well. I figure if there is a trace amount of sample left over it will be diluted by a large factor compared to the volume of the next sample. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 2:04 PM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > Looking for advice on digital electrolyte refractometers for testing lead > acid specific gravity. > I have never used a digital refractometer. Only the old school > refractometers that are not that easy to read accurately. > > Digital units vary tremendously in price. And I'm wondering how difficult > it is to clean/neutralize the chamber where the electrolyte drops go? I > need to test multiple cells and get accurate readings on every cell. > > Has anybody here used one of these, and can you share advice on this topic? > > David Palumbo > Hyde Park, VT > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 21:35:27 2026 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2026 21:35:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Digital LA Battery Electrolyte Tester In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, I have never used a digital tester. However I have used the Hydrovolt hydrometer (see below) and have found it to be very easy and quick to use and read. In fact, when I first found and used one 20 years ago, I was so taken by it compared to the turkey baster type hydrometer or a refractomerer that I contacted the European manufacturer and bought a case of 90 of them, purchasing them for a fraction of the $40 cost they were selling for at the US supply houses. Now that I haven't sold a system with lead acid batteries in the last 2-3 years, I still have maybe ⅔ of them left. Happy to send one to you (or anyone interested) at cost. Contact me off list if interested. I'm just interested in getting them into people's hands that can use them instead of the back of my warehouse collecting dust. Howie On Mon, Jun 1, 2026, 5:21 PM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > Looking for advice on digital electrolyte refractometers for testing lead > acid specific gravity. > I have never used a digital refractometer. Only the old school > refractometers that are not that easy to read accurately. > > Digital units vary tremendously in price. And I'm wondering how difficult > it is to clean/neutralize the chamber where the electrolyte drops go? I > need to test multiple cells and get accurate readings on every cell. > > Has anybody here used one of these, and can you share advice on this topic? > > David Palumbo > Hyde Park, VT > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2466.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 669204 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:04:34 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 07:04:34 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ev charger off grid Message-ID: <031ECF20-90AC-4CCD-9903-6480CCA15A67@gmail.com> Hi all. I have someone with a SOL ark 12 (9kw max offgrid) who hooked up a EV charger and it’s now tripping ac dual arc/gfi breakers. I figure the charger or car or both are making noise and the breakers trip. The charger is set to 16 amps. I guess my question is since this doesn’t happen on grid, or at least I never hear about it, is this an issue anyone has seen in other offgrid install? Thx Jay From tyronehouck at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:12:13 2026 From: tyronehouck at gmail.com (Tyrone Houck) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 06:12:13 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ev charger off grid In-Reply-To: <031ECF20-90AC-4CCD-9903-6480CCA15A67@gmail.com> References: <031ECF20-90AC-4CCD-9903-6480CCA15A67@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have seen chargers cause afci/gfci fault errors off grid when there were redundant neutral bonds and scenarios where a better electrode was needed. In my experience car chargers are sensitive to needing a solid ground connection. On Wed, Jun 3, 2026, 6:05 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all. > > I have someone with a SOL ark 12 (9kw max offgrid) who hooked up a EV > charger and it’s now tripping ac dual arc/gfi breakers. > I figure the charger or car or both are making noise and the breakers > trip. > The charger is set to 16 amps. > > I guess my question is since this doesn’t happen on grid, or at least I > never hear about it, is this an issue anyone has seen in other offgrid > install? > > Thx > > Jay > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:29:40 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 07:29:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ev charger off grid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A7E8B7E-2B4F-4EDF-8DA9-C208E92C8361@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:55:33 2026 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 09:55:33 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ev charger off grid In-Reply-To: <3A7E8B7E-2B4F-4EDF-8DA9-C208E92C8361@gmail.com> References: <3A7E8B7E-2B4F-4EDF-8DA9-C208E92C8361@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay, Most leve 2 EVSE do not require a neutral wire and come with internal GFCI protection. It’s best to hardwire the charger to avoid additional GCFI OCPD requirements and potential nuisance tripping that come along with NEMA 14-50 plug in installations. On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 9:34 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > And what if the charger doesn’t have a neutral, just a ground? > Does the same issue apply? > > On Jun 3, 2026, at 7:14 AM, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > I have seen chargers cause afci/gfci fault errors off grid when there were > redundant neutral bonds and scenarios where a better electrode was needed. > In my experience car chargers are sensitive to needing a solid ground > connection. > > > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2026, 6:05 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi all. >> >> I have someone with a SOL ark 12 (9kw max offgrid) who hooked up a EV >> charger and it’s now tripping ac dual arc/gfi breakers. >> I figure the charger or car or both are making noise and the breakers >> trip. >> The charger is set to 16 amps. >> >> I guess my question is since this doesn’t happen on grid, or at least I >> never hear about it, is this an issue anyone has seen in other offgrid >> install? >> >> Thx >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Wed Jun 3 10:30:35 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 07:30:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ev charger off grid In-Reply-To: References: <3A7E8B7E-2B4F-4EDF-8DA9-C208E92C8361@gmail.com> Message-ID: The solution in our case was to shine up all the copper ground wires and tighten ground connections - everything from the electrode back to the inverter, and to the EV charger. *David * On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 6:58 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jay, > > Most leve 2 EVSE do not require a neutral wire and come with internal GFCI > protection. It’s best to hardwire the charger to avoid additional GCFI OCPD > requirements and potential nuisance tripping that come along with NEMA > 14-50 plug in installations. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 9:34 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> And what if the charger doesn’t have a neutral, just a ground? >> Does the same issue apply? >> >> On Jun 3, 2026, at 7:14 AM, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> >> I have seen chargers cause afci/gfci fault errors off grid when there >> were redundant neutral bonds and scenarios where a better electrode was >> needed. In my experience car chargers are sensitive to needing a solid >> ground connection. >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2026, 6:05 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi all. >>> >>> I have someone with a SOL ark 12 (9kw max offgrid) who hooked up a EV >>> charger and it’s now tripping ac dual arc/gfi breakers. >>> I figure the charger or car or both are making noise and the breakers >>> trip. >>> The charger is set to 16 amps. >>> >>> I guess my question is since this doesn’t happen on grid, or at least I >>> never hear about it, is this an issue anyone has seen in other offgrid >>> install? >>> >>> Thx >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Wed Jun 3 10:30:35 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 07:30:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ev charger off grid In-Reply-To: References: <3A7E8B7E-2B4F-4EDF-8DA9-C208E92C8361@gmail.com> Message-ID: The solution in our case was to shine up all the copper ground wires and tighten ground connections - everything from the electrode back to the inverter, and to the EV charger. *David * On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 6:58 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jay, > > Most leve 2 EVSE do not require a neutral wire and come with internal GFCI > protection. It’s best to hardwire the charger to avoid additional GCFI OCPD > requirements and potential nuisance tripping that come along with NEMA > 14-50 plug in installations. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 9:34 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> And what if the charger doesn’t have a neutral, just a ground? >> Does the same issue apply? >> >> On Jun 3, 2026, at 7:14 AM, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> >> I have seen chargers cause afci/gfci fault errors off grid when there >> were redundant neutral bonds and scenarios where a better electrode was >> needed. In my experience car chargers are sensitive to needing a solid >> ground connection. >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2026, 6:05 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi all. >>> >>> I have someone with a SOL ark 12 (9kw max offgrid) who hooked up a EV >>> charger and it’s now tripping ac dual arc/gfi breakers. >>> I figure the charger or car or both are making noise and the breakers >>> trip. >>> The charger is set to 16 amps. >>> >>> I guess my question is since this doesn’t happen on grid, or at least I >>> never hear about it, is this an issue anyone has seen in other offgrid >>> install? >>> >>> Thx >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Jun 3 12:33:36 2026 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 16:33:36 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Any body have source for SolarEdge EnergyHub inverter that is compatible with LG Prime 16? Message-ID: Fellow Wrenches - do any of you have SolarEdge distributors with good supply that I might reach out to? My personal and getting old SolarEdge 'StorEdge 7600' needs upgrading but I was resisting a fill change out and was instead trying to convert to SolarEdge EnergyHub...but there are so many part number variants of this inverter and some are LG Prime 16 compatible and others are not. I'm trying to find a compatible 10000 or 11400 inverter so I can avoid "orphaned" roof of optimizers (and cost to convert away from optimizers) and two LG Prime 16 batteries. Most distributors seem to have the latest "Made in USA" EnergyHub and these are not LG Prime 16 compatible. Any recommendations for big SolarEdge distributors? My Greentech CED does not have any but the "Made in USA" version Howard "Scot" Arey Owner, Solar CenTex NABCEP PV Installation Professional TECL 29755 254-300-1228 [cid:96f92ab0-9bb6-459a-8530-3afc859e3086] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Outlook-esvs3u3w.png Type: image/png Size: 294949 bytes Desc: Outlook-esvs3u3w.png URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 18:22:52 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2026 16:22:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] David energy. Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: transcoded-1780464597.png Type: image/png Size: 159691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 08:53:38 2026 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 08:53:38 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider SW4048 programming Message-ID: Wrenches, I just installed 2 Fortress e Boost batteries and when trying to set up charge parameters and cannot get to the advanced settings. The manual says to press the up and down keys simultaneously but nothing happens. Any ideas? Am I missing something? I have no experience with this inverter except installing one with default settings a long time ago. John Blittersdorf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Thu Jun 4 09:02:42 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 08:02:42 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider SW4048 programming In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85E15D9E-CABF-43E2-85A8-AB1DA3DB4D6B@mavericksolar.com> On the SCP, press the three left buttons simultaneously and the Advanced menu will appear. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jun 4, 2026, at 7:55 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Wrenches, I just installed 2 Fortress e Boost batteries and when trying to set up charge parameters and cannot get to the advanced settings. The manual says to press the up and down keys simultaneously but nothing happens. Any ideas? Am I missing something? I have no experience with this inverter except installing one with default settings a long time ago. > > John Blittersdorf > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Thu Jun 4 10:51:21 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 07:51:21 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] David energy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: they probably have CTs that communicate wirelessly to the battery. The battery discharges only to match load and never export. *David Quattro* President On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 3:23 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I’m wondering if anyone has heard of this company and what people think. > > He’s using small if I have it right plug in battery, yes plug into the > wall, and saying that he and the building both make money. He says 2kwh > battery. > And it’s not selling to the grid, which I can’t understand how’s he’s > doing that. > > I’d say there is going to be more of said type equipment > > Here is a link to a podcast > [image: transcoded-1780464597.png] > > Are plug-in DERs going to spark a grid revolution? > > volts.wtf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: transcoded-1780464597.png Type: image/png Size: 159691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Thu Jun 4 10:51:21 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 07:51:21 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] David energy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: they probably have CTs that communicate wirelessly to the battery. The battery discharges only to match load and never export. *David Quattro* President On Wed, Jun 3, 2026 at 3:23 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I’m wondering if anyone has heard of this company and what people think. > > He’s using small if I have it right plug in battery, yes plug into the > wall, and saying that he and the building both make money. He says 2kwh > battery. > And it’s not selling to the grid, which I can’t understand how’s he’s > doing that. > > I’d say there is going to be more of said type equipment > > Here is a link to a podcast > [image: transcoded-1780464597.png] > > Are plug-in DERs going to spark a grid revolution? > > volts.wtf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: transcoded-1780464597.png Type: image/png Size: 159691 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Jun 4 11:40:43 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2026 11:40:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Nuisance Tripping Hubble GFCI on EG4 Message-ID: <869c9ed2185240c200943aa51d6802c2@redwoodalliance.org> A commercial grade, Hubble GFCI receptacle is nuisance tripping on an EG4 XP6000 inverter. It holds fine on an LED light bulb. Under a heavy load (PVC Heater), it trips after a minute or so. Is there a GFCI receptacle brand that works better with the XP6000 inverter? Thank you, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 13:22:55 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 11:22:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] David energy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2702F584-83E2-4C3C-BD10-FFCEAF54194E@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 13:22:55 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 11:22:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] David energy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2702F584-83E2-4C3C-BD10-FFCEAF54194E@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Thu Jun 4 14:42:57 2026 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2026 18:42:57 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] David energy. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jay, UL 3700 applies to balcony systems. Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2026 6:22:52 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jay Subject: [RE-wrenches] David energy. I’m wondering if anyone has heard of this company and what people think. He’s using small if I have it right plug in battery, yes plug into the wall, and saying that he and the building both make money. He says 2kwh battery. And it’s not selling to the grid, which I can’t understand how’s he’s doing that. I’d say there is going to be more of said type equipment Here is a link to a podcast [transcoded-1780464597.png] Are plug-in DERs going to spark a grid revolution? volts.wtf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: transcoded-1780464597.png Type: image/png Size: 159691 bytes Desc: transcoded-1780464597.png URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri Jun 5 11:17:17 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2026 11:17:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Nuisance Tripping Hubble GFCI on EG4 In-Reply-To: <869c9ed2185240c200943aa51d6802c2@redwoodalliance.org> References: <869c9ed2185240c200943aa51d6802c2@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <0bdefa821684b7d3f6b77632fc24171d@redwoodalliance.org> I called EG4 tech support about this question. They said to use a commercial grade, 20 A GFCI receptacle. My question is: "isn't a 15 and 20 A GFCI electronically the same? Isn't the only difference in the faceplate?" Thank you, Drake --- _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ On 2026-06-04 11:40, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > A commercial grade, Hubble GFCI receptacle is nuisance tripping on an > EG4 XP6000 inverter. It holds fine on an LED light bulb. Under a heavy > load (PVC Heater), it trips after a minute or so. > > Is there a GFCI receptacle brand that works better with the XP6000 > inverter? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > _Drake Chamberlin_ > > _Athens Electric LLC_ > > _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ > > _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 14:20:36 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 12:20:36 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Nuisance Tripping Hubble GFCI on EG4 In-Reply-To: <0bdefa821684b7d3f6b77632fc24171d@redwoodalliance.org> References: <0bdefa821684b7d3f6b77632fc24171d@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <52F96841-645F-4784-9C4B-57FE04E2A22F@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Jun 5 14:32:04 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2026 11:32:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Nuisance Tripping Hubble GFCI on EG4 In-Reply-To: <52F96841-645F-4784-9C4B-57FE04E2A22F@gmail.com> References: <0bdefa821684b7d3f6b77632fc24171d@redwoodalliance.org> <52F96841-645F-4784-9C4B-57FE04E2A22F@gmail.com> Message-ID: My experience has been that nuisance tripping of AFCI and GFCI devices can be caused by excessive THD. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 11:25 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’ve seen GFCI have all sorts of weird issues. Not enough data to put the > blame on the inverter. > I’d try different big load or move the device to a different outlet and > see what it does. > > Good luck > > On Jun 5, 2026, at 9:19 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > I called EG4 tech support about this question. They said to use a > commercial grade, 20 A GFCI receptacle. > > My question is: "isn't a 15 and 20 A GFCI electronically the same? Isn't > the only difference in the faceplate?" > > Thank you, > > Drake > --- > > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > > On 2026-06-04 11:40, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > A commercial grade, Hubble GFCI receptacle is nuisance tripping on an EG4 > XP6000 inverter. It holds fine on an LED light bulb. Under a heavy load > (PVC Heater), it trips after a minute or so. > > Is there a GFCI receptacle brand that works better with the XP6000 > inverter? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Jun 7 17:24:14 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2026 17:24:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Monitoring Message-ID: Hi all, The new EG4 Connect app, which was released recently, is a big dud in my opinion. Users are clamoring for a better interface, better data, and more useful notifications. And I bet installers might enjoy a better interface as well. EG4 fell short on this app redesign. I am launching a third-party monitoring app called FourScoped that draws on the same EG4 data, but presents it in a much better way. It has pre-launch pricing right now, but for Wrenches on this list, if you sign up and then reach out to me by email, I'll set you up with a free six-month Pro subscription. Let me know what you think: https://fourscoped.com/ P.S. You might already know this, but I discovered through this process that the old EG4 app's Power chart didn't actually average power over the 10-minute spans it displays. That data comes from Power snapshots every 4 minutes rather than taking energy over that period and doing the math for average power. That resulted in jagged power charts and unexplained dips in production that were not real. Using power measurements taken at 4-minute increments with variable clouds is not going to provide very useful chart data. The new EG4 Connect app shows a real energy chart for daily data, but only has one-hour granularity. I think my approach in FourScoped is better, but I'm always looking for feedback! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Jun 8 09:21:17 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:21:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge -A ON/OFF switch issue? Message-ID: Hi All, I am soon going to check out a Solar Edge system where it appears that maybe the ON/OFF switch is faulty. They are getting the "DC VOLTAGE NOT SAFE. DO NOT DISCONNECT" message randomly (not when the switch is turned off). The inverter is pre HD Wave (SE7600-A). Has anyone else run into this, and is there a fix, or will the whole inverter need to get replaced? Cheers, Dave -- Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 270-0370 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20260527_124515.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 229965 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Mon Jun 8 09:33:45 2026 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2026 07:33:45 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge -A ON/OFF switch issue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've handled nearly a hundred SE service tickets but have never encountered a faulty I/O switch before. If I did encounter this I have a hefty stack of derelict units sitting in a pile of e-waste from which I could pull one. Prepare the customer in advance as SE offers only a pittance of labor reimbursement, meaning they will be responsible for your labor costs. Cheers, Sam [image: OnSite Energy] Sam Haraldson Operations Specialist -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Jun 8 09:54:03 2026 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:54:03 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge -A ON/OFF switch issue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: solaredge does not offer any labor reimbursement, If the warranted part is over five years old, effective January 1 of this year. On Mon, Jun 8, 2026 at 9:46 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I've handled nearly a hundred SE service tickets but have never > encountered a faulty I/O switch before. If I did encounter this I have a > hefty stack of derelict units sitting in a pile of e-waste from which I > could pull one. Prepare the customer in advance as SE offers only a > pittance of labor reimbursement, meaning they will be responsible for your > labor costs. > > Cheers, > Sam > > [image: OnSite Energy] > > Sam Haraldson > Operations Specialist > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > *K**irk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.559.1225 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 15079 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Mon Jun 8 12:29:33 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:29:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge -A ON/OFF switch issue? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: as Sam pointed out, Solaredge no longer accepts their F condition carcasses. i.e. they stick you with the E-waste and any associated cost for recycling On Mon, Jun 8, 2026 at 6:54 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > solaredge does not offer any labor reimbursement, If the warranted part is > over five years old, effective January 1 of this year. > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2026 at 9:46 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I've handled nearly a hundred SE service tickets but have never >> encountered a faulty I/O switch before. If I did encounter this I have a >> hefty stack of derelict units sitting in a pile of e-waste from which I >> could pull one. Prepare the customer in advance as SE offers only a >> pittance of labor reimbursement, meaning they will be responsible for your >> labor costs. >> >> Cheers, >> Sam >> >> [image: OnSite Energy] >> >> Sam Haraldson >> Operations Specialist >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > *K**irk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: noname Type: image/png Size: 15079 bytes Desc: not available URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Mon Jun 8 12:36:31 2026 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2026 12:36:31 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge -A ON/OFF switch issue? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <432d996b-aba8-4606-860a-f971522ade33@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Jun 9 13:04:57 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2026 17:04:57 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV array direct to car charger? Message-ID: Does anyone know of a PV array standalone direct to a car charger option [sans inverter]? _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Tue Jun 9 15:25:35 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:25:35 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV array direct to car charger? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Jun 9 16:00:50 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2026 20:00:50 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV array direct to car charger? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great Q Maverick this is a Toyota BE? [I think] I will have to check. I would bet that it might, as the dealer say "void the Warranty". _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV array direct to car charger? Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2026 19:25:35 +0000 Size: 19753 URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Tue Jun 9 16:18:13 2026 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2026 15:18:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV array direct to car charger? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2088CBBA-9522-4F24-9690-00F59CCA030B@mavericksolar.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: favicon.ico Type: image/x-icon Size: 5430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Tue Jun 9 17:04:42 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2026 14:04:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV array direct to car charger? In-Reply-To: <2088CBBA-9522-4F24-9690-00F59CCA030B@mavericksolar.com> References: <2088CBBA-9522-4F24-9690-00F59CCA030B@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: The 2 raw DC pins definitely aren't enough. The charger/connector and the vehicle need to speak the same language, and for safety they rely on continual handshake (image below for CCS pinout) L1: Line 1, used for single-phase or three-phase AC power. L2: Line 2, used for three-phase AC power. L3: Line 3, used for three-phase AC power. N: Neutral, used to complete the circuit. PE: Protective Earth, used for grounding for safety. PP: Proximity Pilot, used for detecting the plug's insertion and removal status. CP: Control Pilot, used for communication between the charging station and the electric vehicle to coordinate the charging process. DC+: Direct Current positive, used for transmitting direct current. DC-: Direct Current negative, used for transmitting direct current. [image: CCS pinout image.jpg] *David Quattro* President On Tue, Jun 9, 2026 at 1:23 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’m guessing if the car uses NACS or CCS connector, it will need outside > control / feedback to use raw PV power. > > This AI summary illustrates the connector with raw power and two pins for > negotiation. That is the key. “How much can you deliver?” “Please only > deliver” commands would need to go somewhere. > > There might be a battery free inverter that can negotiate this as it > tracks solar MPPT. > > nacs charging technical specifications > > google.com > > [image: favicon.ico] > > > > Many all-in-one inverters nowadays have smart ports. I wonder if they can > handle EV charging without batteries and I wonder what the car thinks about > when the smart port just turns off with no handshake. > > For instance, on the NCS charger, you press the button on the handle to > tell the car to stop charging (it unlocks), then you can unplug it. I’m > sure the car is OK if you just turned off the breaker visa-vie the smart > port turning off. I wonder. > > Thank you, > > Maverick > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > • Solar Commander Remote Power > • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > > On Jun 9, 2026, at 3:01 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Great Q Maverick this is a Toyota BE? [I think] I will have to check. I > would bet that it might, as the dealer say “void the Warranty”. > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: favicon.ico Type: application/octet-stream Size: 5430 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CCS pinout image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 74188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pureenergysolar at hotmail.com Wed Jun 17 11:21:05 2026 From: pureenergysolar at hotmail.com (Wayne Irwin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 15:21:05 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advanced Energy PVP 75KW_Parts Message-ID: Howdy folks, Does anyone need parts or want an old PVP75KW. Let me know off list before It goes to the recycler. Blown control board. It still has many good parts. Wayne Irwin President License #CVC56695 State Licensed Solar Contractor Pure Energy Solar International Inc. Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com PureEnergySolar.com SolarChargingStation.com 352 377-6527 Office 352 336-3299 Fax 352 316-1637 Cell The Sun Is Always Shining! The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2453.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 60856 bytes Desc: IMG_2453.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: View recent photos.png Type: image/png Size: 2883353 bytes Desc: View recent photos.png URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Wed Jun 17 13:15:09 2026 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 10:15:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin Post: Having to change list hosts Message-ID: <1781716522850.604fd68a7353d31e@re-wrenches.org> Hello Wrenches. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me off list. We received notice that our Wrench List host (DreamHost) is pulling the rug out from under all of their clients' discussion lists by ending listserver availability. Pretty big bummer, as it is no simple task to switch hosts. But I am thankful for the host we had been using for decades, and at no cost. I am researching which of the list hosting possibilities are best for us. At some point, the list will likely be down for 1-3 days to make the switch-over. I'm not exactly sure when that will happen, but I will let you all know in advance. We will be staying with the same list software (Mailman), though we may upgrade to the most recent version which was not available at the old host. In the meantime, keep on using the Wrench List as needed. From Chris at OasisMontana.com Wed Jun 17 13:42:09 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 11:42:09 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> References: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> Message-ID: <004801dcfe80$a02b1800$e0814800$@OasisMontana.com> Hey folks: I've been buying these batteries over the years from Tommy at Northwest Energy Storage. Well, I have a customer with a bad cell in a 3 year old battery. And Tommy's number is 'disconnected or no longer in service'. Does anyone have a connection to this battery manufacturer? Thanks in advance! Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed Jun 17 13:59:06 2026 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 17:59:06 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: <004801dcfe80$a02b1800$e0814800$@OasisMontana.com> References: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> <004801dcfe80$a02b1800$e0814800$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Chris I am on the Solar One If no reply let em know I can dive into my battery box & look at ID & Data _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C - 208.721.7003 E - dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Chris Daum via RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 17:42:09 +0000 Size: 13423 URL: From ray at solarray.com Wed Jun 17 14:32:53 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 12:32:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: References: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> <004801dcfe80$a02b1800$e0814800$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <7092f220-d6b5-4c99-b7b0-8fca4147844f@solarray.com> We were a distributor for the HUP Solar One for almost 2 decades.  Enersys, the parent company, decided to pull the plug on the entire HUP line, due to reduced demand for lead acid batteries, and then the 2025 Tariffs were the final blow. We were told to pull all advertising, and mention of what was a great battery.  I don't know what to say about a replacement cell, other than to contact Enersys directly and try to work through the chain of command. Tommy retired with that, so is no longer a contact point, and I really don't have anything to offer either.  A bad cell is highly unusual with the HUPs, I only saw that on a system where the owners were not able to get to one of the cells, and so it went dry.  I've recovered cells by charging them vigorously with a large automotive charger set to 6 v, and just put that across the terminals of the individual cell while charging the whole system as well. Also, the HUPs need a pretty high charge rate to bring the cells to full SG. Depends on the model, but the minimum charge rate can be as high as 200 amps for the largest model.  I've attached a spec sheet with minimum charge rates listed.  Basically if you aren't getting close to those charge rates, you can end up with sulfation damage long term.  I've almost always been able to recover HUPs, but it might take 2 days of EQing at very high voltages (62 v @ 48v nominal) nothing will happen, and then finally the SG will start moving. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 6/17/2026 11:59 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Chris I am on the Solar One If no reply let em know I can dive into my > battery box & look at ID & Data > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003      E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > /_“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”_/ > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SO Specs.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 67252 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Chris at OasisMontana.com Wed Jun 17 14:38:58 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 12:38:58 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: <7092f220-d6b5-4c99-b7b0-8fca4147844f@solarray.com> References: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> <004801dcfe80$a02b1800$e0814800$@OasisMontana.com> <7092f220-d6b5-4c99-b7b0-8fca4147844f@solarray.com> Message-ID: <006501dcfe88$9018bd20$b04a3760$@OasisMontana.com> Gentlemen: Thanks. The customer swears she equalizes them monthly (hers are the 6-100-33/24) and adds a little water as needed. Any ideas and suggestions appreciated. --Chris @ the Oasis Montana From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2026 12:33 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Ray Walters Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries We were a distributor for the HUP Solar One for almost 2 decades. Enersys, the parent company, decided to pull the plug on the entire HUP line, due to reduced demand for lead acid batteries, and then the 2025 Tariffs were the final blow. We were told to pull all advertising, and mention of what was a great battery. I don't know what to say about a replacement cell, other than to contact Enersys directly and try to work through the chain of command. Tommy retired with that, so is no longer a contact point, and I really don't have anything to offer either. A bad cell is highly unusual with the HUPs, I only saw that on a system where the owners were not able to get to one of the cells, and so it went dry. I've recovered cells by charging them vigorously with a large automotive charger set to 6 v, and just put that across the terminals of the individual cell while charging the whole system as well. Also, the HUPs need a pretty high charge rate to bring the cells to full SG. Depends on the model, but the minimum charge rate can be as high as 200 amps for the largest model. I've attached a spec sheet with minimum charge rates listed. Basically if you aren't getting close to those charge rates, you can end up with sulfation damage long term. I've almost always been able to recover HUPs, but it might take 2 days of EQing at very high voltages (62 v @ 48v nominal) nothing will happen, and then finally the SG will start moving. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 6/17/2026 11:59 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: Chris I am on the Solar One If no reply let em know I can dive into my battery box & look at ID & Data _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com “Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!” _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chris at OasisMontana.com Wed Jun 17 16:33:24 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 14:33:24 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: <7092f220-d6b5-4c99-b7b0-8fca4147844f@solarray.com> References: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> <004801dcfe80$a02b1800$e0814800$@OasisMontana.com> <7092f220-d6b5-4c99-b7b0-8fca4147844f@solarray.com> Message-ID: <009101dcfe98$8c83bc40$a58b34c0$@OasisMontana.com> Yes, I’ve been selling these since 2007. Damn good batteries; I did hear from Tommy in a roundabout fashion; THE contact person at Enersys is Jammie Bednarek, 484-203-8660, and her e-mail is jammie.bednarek at eversys.com . If you have a bunch of these batteries out there, take note! And thanks for your input. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2026 12:33 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Ray Walters Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries We were a distributor for the HUP Solar One for almost 2 decades. Enersys, the parent company, decided to pull the plug on the entire HUP line, due to reduced demand for lead acid batteries, and then the 2025 Tariffs were the final blow. We were told to pull all advertising, and mention of what was a great battery. I don't know what to say about a replacement cell, other than to contact Enersys directly and try to work through the chain of command. Tommy retired with that, so is no longer a contact point, and I really don't have anything to offer either. A bad cell is highly unusual with the HUPs, I only saw that on a system where the owners were not able to get to one of the cells, and so it went dry. I've recovered cells by charging them vigorously with a large automotive charger set to 6 v, and just put that across the terminals of the individual cell while charging the whole system as well. Also, the HUPs need a pretty high charge rate to bring the cells to full SG. Depends on the model, but the minimum charge rate can be as high as 200 amps for the largest model. I've attached a spec sheet with minimum charge rates listed. Basically if you aren't getting close to those charge rates, you can end up with sulfation damage long term. I've almost always been able to recover HUPs, but it might take 2 days of EQing at very high voltages (62 v @ 48v nominal) nothing will happen, and then finally the SG will start moving. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 6/17/2026 11:59 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: Chris I am on the Solar One If no reply let em know I can dive into my battery box & look at ID & Data _________________________________________________________ Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com “Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!” _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jun 17 17:14:00 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 17:14:00 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover 42-48-6650 Message-ID: What experience have you had with warranty coverage for Discover batteries? I am helping out a new homeowner with a bad battery (one low cell). They purchased the system with the home, and the original installer is long gone. We don't know where the battery was purchased. It sounds like Discover is going to require a boatload of diagnostics (this is on a remote island, but no boat pun intended). And the number 1 item on their checklist, in bold letters, is proof of purchase. I thought I was doing great by downloading the Link II software and doing a data dump on the bank of batteries, but I found out when customer support later replied that I need to use different software, which requires another boat ride and hours of service fees. Even if I could provide proof of purchase, there is no guarantee this would be warrantied. That puts the owner in a bad spot. I'm not impressed with Discover's warranty procedure or policy so far. We will see where it goes... The only good thing that happened today is the homeowner had a mini-USB cable. That was a bit of a miracle. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jun 17 18:07:32 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 18:07:32 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: <009101dcfe98$8c83bc40$a58b34c0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <010a01cf3d41$fd4a0950$f7de1bf0$@millersolar.com> <004801dcfe80$a02b1800$e0814800$@OasisMontana.com> <7092f220-d6b5-4c99-b7b0-8fca4147844f@solarray.com> <009101dcfe98$8c83bc40$a58b34c0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: I kind of saw the writing on the wall a few years back. The incumbent installer for all the off-grid islands around me installed dozens of HUP systems over the last 5 years. Now he is gone, and I am actively removing them and installing LFPs. Most of them have been abused, so they're 6,000-pound bricks in elevated equipment buildings at very remote sites. Not fun. As much as I loved these batteries for some early off-grid jobs I did, the modularity, expandability, lack of maintenance, monitoring insight, and weight of LFP is too much to ignore. Not perfect, for sure, but overall it's better for my situation. Incidentally, I think Tommy lived about 30 minutes away from me, in Placida, FL, near Boca Grande. I seem to recall picking up a HUP battery bank at his shop for my father's house in the Caribbean about a decade ago. Seems like yesterday, but also a million years ago in some ways! I just removed a battery from an island that I bought from him in 2010, but it had already been replaced a few years back and was just waiting for a barge to remove it. It lasted about 12 years, though. Hard to argue with that performance! Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 4:54 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Yes, I’ve been selling these since 2007. Damn good batteries; I did hear > from Tommy in a roundabout fashion; THE contact person at Enersys is Jammie > Bednarek, 484-203-8660, and her e-mail is jammie.bednarek at eversys.com. > If you have a bunch of these batteries out there, take note! > > > > And thanks for your input. > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2026 12:33 PM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Ray Walters > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries > > > > We were a distributor for the HUP Solar One for almost 2 decades. > Enersys, the parent company, decided to pull the plug on the entire HUP > line, due to reduced demand for lead acid batteries, and then the 2025 > Tariffs were the final blow. We were told to pull all advertising, and > mention of what was a great battery. I don't know what to say about a > replacement cell, other than to contact Enersys directly and try to work > through the chain of command. > > Tommy retired with that, so is no longer a contact point, and I really > don't have anything to offer either. A bad cell is highly unusual with the > HUPs, I only saw that on a system where the owners were not able to get to > one of the cells, and so it went dry. I've recovered cells by charging > them vigorously with a large automotive charger set to 6 v, and just put > that across the terminals of the individual cell while charging the whole > system as well. > > Also, the HUPs need a pretty high charge rate to bring the cells to full > SG. Depends on the model, but the minimum charge rate can be as high as 200 > amps for the largest model. I've attached a spec sheet with minimum charge > rates listed. Basically if you aren't getting close to those charge rates, > you can end up with sulfation damage long term. I've almost always been > able to recover HUPs, but it might take 2 days of EQing at very high > voltages (62 v @ 48v nominal) nothing will happen, and then finally the SG > will start moving. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > On 6/17/2026 11:59 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Chris I am on the Solar One If no reply let em know I can dive into my > battery box & look at ID & Data > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 18:08:33 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 16:08:33 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: <009101dcfe98$8c83bc40$a58b34c0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <009101dcfe98$8c83bc40$a58b34c0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Wed Jun 17 18:24:51 2026 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 18:24:51 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: References: <009101dcfe98$8c83bc40$a58b34c0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: One EMP and we'll all be clamoring for FLA's again. Hope it never comes to that my friends. Christopher On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 6:13 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Chris > > The key is exactly what voltage, current and for how long. > > I’ve had a few cells fail over the years usually not my customers, and I > think all but 1 was customer screwup. Wrong charge voltage, time not enough > amps etc. and not testing via specific gravity and volts. > but 1 was a true failure. > > The fall of lead has been faster than I expected. > > Jay > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2026, at 2:54 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Yes, I’ve been selling these since 2007. Damn good batteries; I did hear > from Tommy in a roundabout fashion; THE contact person at Enersys is Jammie > Bednarek, 484-203-8660, and her e-mail is jammie.bednarek at eversys.com. > If you have a bunch of these batteries out there, take note! > > > > And thanks for your input. > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2026 12:33 PM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Ray Walters > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries > > > > We were a distributor for the HUP Solar One for almost 2 decades. > Enersys, the parent company, decided to pull the plug on the entire HUP > line, due to reduced demand for lead acid batteries, and then the 2025 > Tariffs were the final blow. We were told to pull all advertising, and > mention of what was a great battery. I don't know what to say about a > replacement cell, other than to contact Enersys directly and try to work > through the chain of command. > > Tommy retired with that, so is no longer a contact point, and I really > don't have anything to offer either. A bad cell is highly unusual with the > HUPs, I only saw that on a system where the owners were not able to get to > one of the cells, and so it went dry. I've recovered cells by charging > them vigorously with a large automotive charger set to 6 v, and just put > that across the terminals of the individual cell while charging the whole > system as well. > > Also, the HUPs need a pretty high charge rate to bring the cells to full > SG. Depends on the model, but the minimum charge rate can be as high as 200 > amps for the largest model. I've attached a spec sheet with minimum charge > rates listed. Basically if you aren't getting close to those charge rates, > you can end up with sulfation damage long term. I've almost always been > able to recover HUPs, but it might take 2 days of EQing at very high > voltages (62 v @ 48v nominal) nothing will happen, and then finally the SG > will start moving. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > On 6/17/2026 11:59 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Chris I am on the Solar One If no reply let em know I can dive into my > battery box & look at ID & Data > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! > > C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com > > W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com > > *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jun 17 19:09:19 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2026 19:09:19 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries In-Reply-To: References: <009101dcfe98$8c83bc40$a58b34c0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: All of the inverters will be fried anyway. Or they will be bricked before that by a foreign actor. :) I have one client maintaining a FLA battery bank on the side that is about 25% of the capacity of his LFP for dire emergencies. He's keeping the FLA topped off with the LFP system. Not the most efficient system, but if you're planning for Armageddon... why not? It would be an easy switchover if the inverters are still functional. He has a spare Sol-Ark on the shelf, too. I have actually suggested this to off-grid clients with HUPs that are still viable. If they have the space and the solar capacity, keep the HUPs, charge them on a smart load circuit with a Chargeverter when you have excess solar, and they will be there if the worst happens. Of course, I can see maintenance being neglected, but if they're otherwise going to the recycler anyway... why not? Most clients opt to remove them because they just don't want to look at them anymore. Batteries need to be pretty all of a sudden. Thanks, Tesla. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 6:41 PM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > One EMP and we'll all be clamoring for FLA's again. Hope it never comes to > that my friends. > > Christopher > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 6:13 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Chris >> >> The key is exactly what voltage, current and for how long. >> >> I’ve had a few cells fail over the years usually not my customers, and I >> think all but 1 was customer screwup. Wrong charge voltage, time not enough >> amps etc. and not testing via specific gravity and volts. >> but 1 was a true failure. >> >> The fall of lead has been faster than I expected. >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 17, 2026, at 2:54 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> >> Yes, I’ve been selling these since 2007. Damn good batteries; I did hear >> from Tommy in a roundabout fashion; THE contact person at Enersys is Jammie >> Bednarek, 484-203-8660, and her e-mail is jammie.bednarek at eversys.com. >> If you have a bunch of these batteries out there, take note! >> >> >> >> And thanks for your input. >> >> >> >> Chris Daum >> >> Oasis Montana Inc. >> >> 406-777-4309 >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2026 12:33 PM >> *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> *Cc:* Ray Walters >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar One HUP batteries >> >> >> >> We were a distributor for the HUP Solar One for almost 2 decades. >> Enersys, the parent company, decided to pull the plug on the entire HUP >> line, due to reduced demand for lead acid batteries, and then the 2025 >> Tariffs were the final blow. We were told to pull all advertising, and >> mention of what was a great battery. I don't know what to say about a >> replacement cell, other than to contact Enersys directly and try to work >> through the chain of command. >> >> Tommy retired with that, so is no longer a contact point, and I really >> don't have anything to offer either. A bad cell is highly unusual with the >> HUPs, I only saw that on a system where the owners were not able to get to >> one of the cells, and so it went dry. I've recovered cells by charging >> them vigorously with a large automotive charger set to 6 v, and just put >> that across the terminals of the individual cell while charging the whole >> system as well. >> >> Also, the HUPs need a pretty high charge rate to bring the cells to full >> SG. Depends on the model, but the minimum charge rate can be as high as 200 >> amps for the largest model. I've attached a spec sheet with minimum charge >> rates listed. Basically if you aren't getting close to those charge rates, >> you can end up with sulfation damage long term. I've almost always been >> able to recover HUPs, but it might take 2 days of EQing at very high >> voltages (62 v @ 48v nominal) nothing will happen, and then finally the SG >> will start moving. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> >> On 6/17/2026 11:59 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Chris I am on the Solar One If no reply let em know I can dive into my >> battery box & look at ID & Data >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> Dana Orzel GREAT SOLAR WORKS! >> >> C – 208.721.7003 E – dana at solarwork.com >> >> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com >> >> *“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”* >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Chris Schaefer’s > > > *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * > *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com > ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > * > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Jun 18 08:56:47 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2026 08:56:47 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge -A ON/OFF switch issue? In-Reply-To: <432d996b-aba8-4606-860a-f971522ade33@email.android.com> References: <432d996b-aba8-4606-860a-f971522ade33@email.android.com> Message-ID: I figured I would report back. I went out to the site, and it turns out that the on/off switch relay was in fact futzing out. Sometimes it would be working just fine, but it would often get stuck in the OFF position even if no one touches the switch. I was able to temporarily bypass it by jumping the two pins together on the comm board where the ON/OFF wires connect. This invalidates that on/off switch, but at least the inverter works. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Jun 8, 2026 at 12:37 PM Glenn via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I had one that got water inside it and one of the wires connected to the > switch had corroded off. I think i cut it back and soldered it directly to > a replacement switch from the dead pile. > > -Glenn > > On Jun 8, 2026 09:54, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > solaredge does not offer any labor reimbursement, If the warranted part is > over five years old, effective January 1 of this year. > > On Mon, Jun 8, 2026 at 9:46 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I've handled nearly a hundred SE service tickets but have never > encountered a faulty I/O switch before. If I did encounter this I have a > hefty stack of derelict units sitting in a pile of e-waste from which I > could pull one. Prepare the customer in advance as SE offers only a > pittance of labor reimbursement, meaning they will be responsible for your > labor costs. > > Cheers, > Sam > > [image: OnSite Energy] > > Sam Haraldson > Operations Specialist > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > *K**irk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 35th Anniversary 1991-2026!!* > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.559.1225 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Sun Jun 21 14:20:12 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2026 14:20:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Follow up - Nuisance Tripping Hubble GFCI on EG4 In-Reply-To: References: <0bdefa821684b7d3f6b77632fc24171d@redwoodalliance.org> <52F96841-645F-4784-9C4B-57FE04E2A22F@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2026-06-05 14:32, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > My experience has been that nuisance tripping of AFCI and GFCI devices > can be caused by excessive THD. > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com [1] > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 11:25 AM Jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: > >> I’ve seen GFCI have all sorts of weird issues. Not enough data to >> put the blame on the inverter. >> I’d try different big load or move the device to a different >> outlet and see what it does. >> >> Good luck >> >>> On Jun 5, 2026, at 9:19 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >>> wrote: >> >>  >> >> I called EG4 tech support about this question. They said to use a >> commercial grade, 20 A GFCI receptacle. >> >> My question is: "isn't a 15 and 20 A GFCI electronically the same? >> Isn't the only difference in the faceplate?" >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> --- >> >> _Drake Chamberlin_ >> >> _Athens Electric LLC_ >> >> _Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810_ >> >> _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ >> >> On 2026-06-04 11:40, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> A commercial grade, Hubble GFCI receptacle is nuisance tripping on >> an EG4 XP6000 inverter. It holds fine on an LED light bulb. Under a >> heavy load (PVC Heater), it trips after a minute or so. >> >> Is there a GFCI receptacle brand that works better with the XP6000 >> inverter? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> _Drake Chamberlin_ >> >> _Athens Electric LLC_ >> >> _Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810_ >> >> _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org The followup is that I changed the GFCI to a 20 A rated version, and it held the load. Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From matt at getpimby.com Wed Jun 24 19:44:17 2026 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matt Sherald) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2026 19:44:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 Message-ID: Hello! I'm hoping someone on the list has experience with the 6304 code on the SB 5000TL-US-22 or similar vintage (2015) SMA inverter. I was asked to troubleshoot an inverter that has developed a daily habit of throwing this error and stopping production. The production curves over the last several days show production in the AM that builds and then abruptly stops late AM./mid-day. It looks like a problem caused by AC voltage rise, but my multimeter readings at both the main breaker and on the circuit board of the inverter stayed below 258V even at peak production. My impression from the online SMA documentation is that this is a metering error internal to the inverter and is not fixable. SMA does not seem to want to deal with this legacy model through tech support channels. It might be time for a new inverter, but I wanted to canvas the folks on the list before I gave up on this older model. -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Thu Jun 25 09:24:11 2026 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2026 07:24:11 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Matt, How diligent have you been with SMA tech support? I know they have three levels of support and can elevate cases to an engineering team at their HQ beyond that. If you haven't yet, formally file a support ticket and then call the service line. Prepare to tell the same story you've probably already told to the level I technician and if they run out of answers ask to be elevated to level II. From there, continue asking questions. They should then inform you that they will take the issue offline to their behind-the-scenes team and work with you via email through their support ticket system. SMA has really stepped up its installer support process recently and it provides qualified installers a far easier and fluid process. Cheers, Sam [image: OnSite Energy] Sam Haraldson Operations Specialist On Wed, Jun 24, 2026 at 5:45 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello! > > I'm hoping someone on the list has experience with the 6304 code on the SB > 5000TL-US-22 or similar vintage (2015) SMA inverter. > > I was asked to troubleshoot an inverter that has developed a daily habit > of throwing this error and stopping production. > > The production curves over the last several days show production in the AM > that builds and then abruptly stops late AM./mid-day. It looks like a > problem caused by AC voltage rise, but my multimeter readings at both the > main breaker and on the circuit board of the inverter stayed below 258V > even at peak production. > > My impression from the online SMA documentation is that this is a metering > error internal to the inverter and is not fixable. SMA does not seem to > want to deal with this legacy model through tech support channels. > > It might be time for a new inverter, but I wanted to canvas the folks on > the list before I gave up on this older model. > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristen at coloradoenergysystems.com Thu Jun 25 18:15:34 2026 From: tristen at coloradoenergysystems.com (Tristen Kocher) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2026 16:15:34 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Power Reserve Bricked - Electriq Power Pod 2 and Goodwe Inverter Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, We have a Kohler Power Reserve unit that, after reconnecting to the internet (we assume because EP's servers were down), bricked the BMS and does not even go through the power up sequence. Anyone have any ideas? Blessings Tristen -- Tristen A. Kocher Project Manager NABCEP Photovoltaic Installation Professional NABCEP Energy Storage Installation Professional 970-456-4601 Office 970-456-2299 Cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Harry.Mahon at sma-america.com Thu Jun 25 18:53:16 2026 From: Harry.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2026 22:53:16 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Matt - Echoing Sam’s comments – have you created a case for this system on the Online Service Center(OSC) - https://my.sma-service.com/ ? This is now the best way to track and resolve SMA Service cases. (If you need to call in, it is best to have a case number when you call – you can create a case at any time on the OSC, so do this prior to site visit if you suspect you will need to call from site) If you do not have an OSC account, you will be asked to create an SMA ID first (a single login that is used now to log into Sunny Design, Sunny Portal and the OSC). ENSURE that if you are migrating an old Sunny Design/Sunny Portal login to an SMA ID or creating an SMA ID fresh, that you select a COMPANY account not a PERSONAL account. This will flag for Service if you are an installer/O&M person vs system owner. If you have an OSC account, but have not migrated the login to an SMA ID yet, you will have already designated your OSC account as personal or company, so the account type will carry over to your SMA ID when you migrate your old login to an SMA ID. The first company user to create an SMA ID will be an admin for all SMA ID’s for your company – you can send invites from the SMA ID dashboard for other employees to create SMA IDs. Creating SMA IDs this way will link all these accounts on the OSC – all company service tickets will be visible on the OSC dashboard. This OSC knowledge article has more info on the Company SMA ID process: SMA ID Registration of Company Account Is this specific inverter equipped with a comms module/registered to Sunny Portal? Definitely that can help with troubleshooting. The SWDM-US-10 accessory module that allows the SB TL-US-10 line to connect to home router (via Ethernet only, no WiFi option) is available through distribution if retrofit is desired (this was brought back as it has been very popular for homeowners with old SunPower branded SB TL-US-10s trying to re-establish monitoring outside of SunPower. Best regards – Mike Michael Mahon (he/him) Manager of Solar Academy | SMA America +1 916 918 9412 SMA America | Solar Academy | TechTip Channel | Upcoming Academy Trainings [cid:image001.jpg at 01DD04C3.1DE0F9C0] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2026 7:24 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Sam Haraldson Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 Matt, How diligent have you been with SMA tech support? I know they have three levels of support and can elevate cases to an engineering team at their HQ beyond that. If you haven't yet, formally file a support ticket and then call the service line. Prepare to tell the same story you've probably already told to the level I technician and if they run out of answers ask to be elevated to level II. From there, continue asking questions. They should then inform you that they will take the issue offline to their behind-the-scenes team and work with you via email through their support ticket system. SMA has really stepped up its installer support process recently and it provides qualified installers a far easier and fluid process. Cheers, Sam [OnSite Energy] Sam Haraldson Operations Specialist On Wed, Jun 24, 2026 at 5:45 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hello! I'm hoping someone on the list has experience with the 6304 code on the SB 5000TL-US-22 or similar vintage (2015) SMA inverter. I was asked to troubleshoot an inverter that has developed a daily habit of throwing this error and stopping production. The production curves over the last several days show production in the AM that builds and then abruptly stops late AM./mid-day. It looks like a problem caused by AC voltage rise, but my multimeter readings at both the main breaker and on the circuit board of the inverter stayed below 258V even at peak production. My impression from the online SMA documentation is that this is a metering error internal to the inverter and is not fixable. SMA does not seem to want to deal with this legacy model through tech support channels. It might be time for a new inverter, but I wanted to canvas the folks on the list before I gave up on this older model. -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 39899 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Jun 26 05:52:17 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 05:52:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Harry, I don't think you can call into SMA at all anymore without setting up a case online first and providing a case number to the phone robot. It's really annoying. That's not good customer service. That's unnecessary hoops for installers to jump through. I really wish SMA would rethink this process. With that said, after the hassle they put you through just to talk to a human, the tech support I have received recently has been competent, and warranty diagnostics are not particularly onerous. On the issue, that is almost definitely an internal intermittent component fault associated with heat. SMA tech support isn't likely to provide actionable out-of-warranty support for that in the field. A replacement board or repair probably won't be worth the effort. You're likely looking at replacement. Ask tech support if they have an out-of-warranty replacement discount option in this case. You might be able to get a refurbished or updated unit at a discount if you return the faulty unit. I have been telling clients for many years to *expect* inverter replacement just outside of the warranty period. I want my clients budgeting for this scenario. It has really cut down on the awkwardness and friction in these repair-or-replace scenarios. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Jun 25, 2026 at 6:56 PM Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Matt - Echoing Sam’s comments – have you created a case for this system on > the Online Service Center(OSC) - https://my.sma-service.com/ ? > > > > This is now the best way to track and resolve SMA Service cases. (If you > need to call in, it is best to have a case number when you call – you can > create a case at any time on the OSC, so do this prior to site visit if you > suspect you will need to call from site) > > > > If you do not have an OSC account, you will be asked to create an SMA ID > first (a single login that is used now to log into Sunny Design, Sunny > Portal and the OSC). > > ENSURE that if you are migrating an old Sunny Design/Sunny Portal login to > an SMA ID or creating an SMA ID fresh, that you select a COMPANY account > not a PERSONAL account. This will flag for Service if you are an > installer/O&M person vs system owner. > > If you have an OSC account, but have not migrated the login to an SMA ID > yet, you will have already designated your OSC account as personal or > company, so the account type will carry over to your SMA ID when you > migrate your old login to an SMA ID. > > The first company user to create an SMA ID will be an admin for all SMA > ID’s for your company – you can send invites from the SMA ID dashboard for > other employees to create SMA IDs. Creating SMA IDs this way will link all > these accounts on the OSC – all company service tickets will be visible on > the OSC dashboard. This OSC knowledge article has more info on the Company > SMA ID process: > > SMA ID Registration of Company Account > > > > > Is this specific inverter equipped with a comms module/registered to Sunny > Portal? Definitely that can help with troubleshooting. The SWDM-US-10 > accessory module that allows the SB TL-US-10 line to connect to home router > (via Ethernet only, no WiFi option) is available through distribution if > retrofit is desired (this was brought back as it has been very popular for > homeowners with old SunPower branded SB TL-US-10s trying to re-establish > monitoring outside of SunPower. > > > > Best regards – > > Mike > > > > > > > *Michael Mahon* (he/him) > Manager of Solar Academy | SMA America > > +1 916 918 9412 > SMA America | Solar Academy > | TechTip Channel > > | Upcoming Academy Trainings > > > > > > This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC > confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the > intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or > any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any > attachments thereto. Thank you. > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2026 7:24 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Sam Haraldson > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 > > > > Matt, > > How diligent have you been with SMA tech support? I know they have three > levels of support and can elevate cases to an engineering team at their HQ > beyond that. If you haven't yet, formally file a support ticket and then > call the service line. Prepare to tell the same story you've probably > already told to the level I technician and if they run out of answers ask > to be elevated to level II. From there, continue asking questions. They > should then inform you that they will take the issue offline to their > behind-the-scenes team and work with you via email through their support > ticket system. SMA has really stepped up its installer support process > recently and it provides qualified installers a far easier and fluid > process. > > > > Cheers, > > Sam > > [image: OnSite Energy] > > *Sam Haraldson* > > Operations Specialist > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2026 at 5:45 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hello! > > > > I'm hoping someone on the list has experience with the 6304 code on the SB > 5000TL-US-22 or similar vintage (2015) SMA inverter. > > > > I was asked to troubleshoot an inverter that has developed a daily habit > of throwing this error and stopping production. > > > > The production curves over the last several days show production in the AM > that builds and then abruptly stops late AM./mid-day. It looks like a > problem caused by AC voltage rise, but my multimeter readings at both the > main breaker and on the circuit board of the inverter stayed below 258V > even at peak production. > > > > My impression from the online SMA documentation is that this is a metering > error internal to the inverter and is not fixable. SMA does not seem to > want to deal with this legacy model through tech support channels. > > > > It might be time for a new inverter, but I wanted to canvas the folks on > the list before I gave up on this older model. > > > > -- > > Matt Sherald > > PIMBY Energy, LLC > > 304-704-5943 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 39899 bytes Desc: not available URL: From matt at getpimby.com Fri Jun 26 07:46:52 2026 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matt Sherald) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 07:46:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for all of your responses. Jason, I appreciate your strategy of preparing system owners for inverter replacement ahead of time. I can understand how that would make the process less unpleasant.for all involved. Sam and Harry, I did use the SMA support system, but it didn't work for me. I have a ticket number that was passed along to me by the system owner. Upon calling SMA I encountered an automated service that asked me to enter the ticket number. I did so and the automated service responded with a message that basically said the TL was old and no longer eligible for support. It also stated that an email with more detail would be forthcoming. As of the following day, no email had arrived which left the system owner and myself at a bit of a loss for how to best proceed. Anyway, I sure appreciate the help from the Wrenches list. Thanks for taking time to share what you know. -Matt On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 6:00 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Harry, > > I don't think you can call into SMA at all anymore without setting up a > case online first and providing a case number to the phone robot. It's > really annoying. That's not good customer service. That's unnecessary hoops > for installers to jump through. I really wish SMA would rethink this > process. > > With that said, after the hassle they put you through just to talk to a > human, the tech support I have received recently has been competent, and > warranty diagnostics are not particularly onerous. > > On the issue, that is almost definitely an internal intermittent > component fault associated with heat. SMA tech support isn't likely to > provide actionable out-of-warranty support for that in the field. A > replacement board or repair probably won't be worth the effort. You're > likely looking at replacement. Ask tech support if they have an > out-of-warranty replacement discount option in this case. You might be able > to get a refurbished or updated unit at a discount if you return the faulty > unit. > > I have been telling clients for many years to *expect* inverter > replacement just outside of the warranty period. I want my clients > budgeting for this scenario. It has really cut down on the awkwardness > and friction in these repair-or-replace scenarios. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2026 at 6:56 PM Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Matt - Echoing Sam’s comments – have you created a case for this system >> on the Online Service Center(OSC) - https://my.sma-service.com/ ? >> >> >> >> This is now the best way to track and resolve SMA Service cases. (If you >> need to call in, it is best to have a case number when you call – you can >> create a case at any time on the OSC, so do this prior to site visit if you >> suspect you will need to call from site) >> >> >> >> If you do not have an OSC account, you will be asked to create an SMA ID >> first (a single login that is used now to log into Sunny Design, Sunny >> Portal and the OSC). >> >> ENSURE that if you are migrating an old Sunny Design/Sunny Portal login >> to an SMA ID or creating an SMA ID fresh, that you select a COMPANY account >> not a PERSONAL account. This will flag for Service if you are an >> installer/O&M person vs system owner. >> >> If you have an OSC account, but have not migrated the login to an SMA ID >> yet, you will have already designated your OSC account as personal or >> company, so the account type will carry over to your SMA ID when you >> migrate your old login to an SMA ID. >> >> The first company user to create an SMA ID will be an admin for all SMA >> ID’s for your company – you can send invites from the SMA ID dashboard for >> other employees to create SMA IDs. Creating SMA IDs this way will link all >> these accounts on the OSC – all company service tickets will be visible on >> the OSC dashboard. This OSC knowledge article has more info on the Company >> SMA ID process: >> >> SMA ID Registration of Company Account >> >> >> >> >> Is this specific inverter equipped with a comms module/registered to >> Sunny Portal? Definitely that can help with troubleshooting. The SWDM-US-10 >> accessory module that allows the SB TL-US-10 line to connect to home router >> (via Ethernet only, no WiFi option) is available through distribution if >> retrofit is desired (this was brought back as it has been very popular for >> homeowners with old SunPower branded SB TL-US-10s trying to re-establish >> monitoring outside of SunPower. >> >> >> >> Best regards – >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Michael Mahon* (he/him) >> Manager of Solar Academy | SMA America >> >> +1 916 918 9412 >> SMA America | Solar Academy >> | TechTip Channel >> >> | Upcoming Academy Trainings >> >> >> >> >> >> This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC >> confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the >> intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or >> any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and >> permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any >> attachments thereto. Thank you. >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2026 7:24 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Sam Haraldson >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 >> >> >> >> Matt, >> >> How diligent have you been with SMA tech support? I know they have three >> levels of support and can elevate cases to an engineering team at their HQ >> beyond that. If you haven't yet, formally file a support ticket and then >> call the service line. Prepare to tell the same story you've probably >> already told to the level I technician and if they run out of answers ask >> to be elevated to level II. From there, continue asking questions. They >> should then inform you that they will take the issue offline to their >> behind-the-scenes team and work with you via email through their support >> ticket system. SMA has really stepped up its installer support process >> recently and it provides qualified installers a far easier and fluid >> process. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Sam >> >> [image: OnSite Energy] >> >> *Sam Haraldson* >> >> Operations Specialist >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2026 at 5:45 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hello! >> >> >> >> I'm hoping someone on the list has experience with the 6304 code on the >> SB 5000TL-US-22 or similar vintage (2015) SMA inverter. >> >> >> >> I was asked to troubleshoot an inverter that has developed a daily habit >> of throwing this error and stopping production. >> >> >> >> The production curves over the last several days show production in the >> AM that builds and then abruptly stops late AM./mid-day. It looks like a >> problem caused by AC voltage rise, but my multimeter readings at both the >> main breaker and on the circuit board of the inverter stayed below 258V >> even at peak production. >> >> >> >> My impression from the online SMA documentation is that this is a >> metering error internal to the inverter and is not fixable. SMA does not >> seem to want to deal with this legacy model through tech support channels. >> >> >> >> It might be time for a new inverter, but I wanted to canvas the folks on >> the list before I gave up on this older model. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Matt Sherald >> >> PIMBY Energy, LLC >> >> 304-704-5943 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 39899 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Fri Jun 26 10:36:32 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:36:32 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to them at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A couple of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one this past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that was possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different settings in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this?  Signature Solar did not have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really produced the results I was hoping for. Thank you, Chris > -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 From dave at sungineersolar.com Fri Jun 26 10:42:53 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:42:53 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can try contacting EG4 directly. I've had good luck talking to them as well when I have had questions. They were good about helping me derate the grid sell for a couple inverters to stay below our utilities residential limit, and then signing a form for us to give to the utility. Cheers, Dave On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 10:39 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to them > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A couple > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one this > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that was > possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different settings > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this? Signature Solar did not > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Fri Jun 26 18:06:34 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 15:06:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This sounds like the old buy all sell all system with two meters. I didn't realize any utilities were still doing this. But the way that we'd do it on a grid-tie system was have one meter measuring production that then connected into the grid on the utility side of the meter going to the house. During a sunny day, the energy used by the house would first be sold to the utility through the production meter, then bought right back through the normal loads meter. Doing a battery backup system would, I think, be wired up the same way. The PV array would have its own grid-direct inverter selling power to the grid, and then the battery backup system would draw power from the grid for charging -- it would be set up as a UPS type system, not knowing that any solar existed at all. If the grid went down, you would not be able to power the house or charge the batteries from the solar, as it would be connected on the dead grid side of any transfer switches from the backup power, and I think this would meet the utilities intent -- if the grid is down, they cannot purchase any electricity, so therefore, generating electricity to recharge your batteries or use would not be allowed. Frankly, if faced with a tarriff like this, I would seriously look into what it would take to get rid of the grid connection entirely and do an actual off-grid system. I figure that most batteries right now cost about 4 to 5 cents/kWh for energy stored then used. So it would depend on the load profile and how much was used during the daytime and how much at night, but if the buy rate is more than 2 or 3 cents more than the sell rate, I would think it would be cheaper to invest in batteries and pay 0 markup during the daytime, and 4 or 5 cents battery cost at nighttime, rather than paying more than 2 or 3 cents markup all the time. Usually, even when faced with very unattractive buy/sell rates, I still recommend that people maintain their grid connection, even if only to use it in place of a standby generator fill in during winter weather. Even paying a $50/month standby charge to maintain a grid connection you almost never use can be cheaper than maintaining an actual physical generator. But if you aren't allowed to even use your own solar power on site without incurring their markup, then that could be a different story. Zeke On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 10:39?AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to them > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A couple > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one this > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that was > possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different settings > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this? Signature Solar did not > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 1:13 PM wrote: > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous > lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. How to sell maximum amount from EG4 (Christopher Warfel) > 2. Re: How to sell maximum amount from EG4 (Dave Tedeyan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:36:32 -0400 > From: Christopher Warfel > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to them > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A couple > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one this > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that was > possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different settings > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this?? Signature Solar did not > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:42:53 -0400 > From: Dave Tedeyan > To: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com, RE-wrenches > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 > Message-ID: > hO6BXe8nkQH-WvLkHrJSSm-B_-rK_AW9FnVw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > You can try contacting EG4 directly. I've had good luck talking to them as > well when I have had questions. They were good about helping me derate the > grid sell for a couple inverters to stay below our utilities residential > limit, and then signing a form for us to give to the utility. > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 10:39?AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to them > > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A couple > > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one > this > > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that > was > > possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different settings > > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. > > > > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this? Signature Solar did not > > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really > > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > > > > -- > > Christopher Warfel, PE > > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > > (401) 447-5773 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260626/74fb284c/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 173 > ******************************************** > -- Zeke Yewdall PV Engineer NABCEP #031508-89 zeke at darkforestsolar.com 303-523-3592 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Sat Jun 27 08:20:52 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2026 08:20:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <998f1ab1-b278-409a-adf1-205c307bab66@entech-engineering.com> Thanks Zeke, I just saw this and will respond with some ideas. Chris On 6/26/2026 6:06 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > This sounds like the old buy all sell all system with two meters.  I > didn't realize any utilities were still doing this.  But the way that > we'd do it on a grid-tie system was have one meter > measuring production that then connected into the grid on the utility > side of the meter going to the house. During a sunny day, the energy > used by the house would first be sold to the utility through the > production meter, then bought right back through the normal loads meter. > > Doing a battery backup system would, I think, be wired up the same > way.  The PV array would have its own grid-direct inverter selling > power to the grid, and then the battery backup system would draw power > from the grid for charging -- it would be set up as a UPS type system, > not knowing that any solar existed at all. > > If the grid went down, you would not be able to power the house or > charge the batteries from the solar, as it would be connected on the > dead grid side of any transfer switches from the backup power, and I > think this would meet the utilities intent -- if the grid is down, > they cannot purchase any electricity, so therefore, generating > electricity to recharge your batteries or use would not be allowed. > > Frankly, if faced with a tarriff like this, I would seriously look > into what it would take to get rid of the grid connection entirely and > do an actual off-grid system.  I figure that most batteries right now > cost about 4 to 5 cents/kWh for energy stored then used.  So it would > depend on the load profile and how much was used during the daytime > and how much at night, but if the buy rate is more than 2 or 3 cents > more than the sell rate, I would think it would be cheaper to invest > in batteries and pay 0 markup during the daytime, and 4 or 5 cents > battery cost at nighttime, rather than paying more than 2 or 3 cents > markup all the time. > > Usually, even when faced with very unattractive buy/sell rates, I > still recommend that people maintain their grid connection, even if > only to use it in place of a standby generator fill in during winter > weather.  Even paying a $50/month standby charge to maintain a grid > connection you almost never use can be cheaper than maintaining an > actual physical generator.  But if you aren't allowed to even use your > own solar power on site without incurring their markup, then that > could be a different story. > > Zeke > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 10:39?AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to > them > > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate.  A > couple > > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first > one this > > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think > that was > > possible with multi mode systems.  I've tried a lot of different > settings > > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. > > > > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this?  Signature Solar did not > > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really > > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > > > > -- > > Christopher Warfel, PE > > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > > (401) 447-5773 > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 1:13 PM > wrote: > > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any > extraneous lines from the quoted message. > > > > Today's Topics: > >    1. How to sell maximum amount from EG4 (Christopher Warfel) >    2. Re: How to sell maximum amount from EG4 (Dave Tedeyan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:36:32 -0400 > From: Christopher Warfel > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 > Message-ID: >         > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold > to them at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff > rate.  A couple of years ago before installing an EG4 system > (which I did my first one this past year), I told the president of > the coop that I did not think that was possible with multi mode > systems.  I've tried a lot of different settings in the EG4 but it > seems not to make a big difference. > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this?? Signature Solar did > not > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not > really > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:42:53 -0400 > From: Dave Tedeyan > To: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com, RE-wrenches >         > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 > Message-ID: >         > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > You can try contacting EG4 directly. I've had good luck talking to > them as > well when I have had questions. They were good about helping me > derate the > grid sell for a couple inverters to stay below our utilities > residential > limit, and then signing a form for us to give to the utility. > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 10:39?AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be > sold to them > > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate.  > A couple > > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my > first one this > > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not > think that was > > possible with multi mode systems.  I've tried a lot of different > settings > > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. > > > > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this? Signature Solar > did not > > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not > really > > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > > > > -- > > Christopher Warfel, PE > > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > > (401) 447-5773 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the > > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 173 > ******************************************** > > > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Jun 27 08:31:29 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2026 08:31:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 In-Reply-To: <998f1ab1-b278-409a-adf1-205c307bab66@entech-engineering.com> References: <998f1ab1-b278-409a-adf1-205c307bab66@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: I think you are talking about a dual meter scenario for grid interconnection (separate buy/sell meters). If that is the case, I would avoid grid interconnection altogether. The utility company doesn't need to know what you're up to. The benefit from grid selling would be so small that it would not really matter unless the array was very large relative to the load. As Zeke suggested, just set this up as a no-sell site and use the batteries for maximum self-consumption. If PV is being lost and the battery reaches the stop discharge limit routinely, suggest more battery capacity. The EG4 12000XP is a good option for this scenario. It does not grid sell. It's just like a UPS when paired with a battery, but it can be used to self-consume solar. The flagship EG4 inverters can be set up this way as well, but cannot guarantee there will be no leakage back to the grid (if large loads suddenly shut off during high solar production, especially if the battery is full). Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Sat, Jun 27, 2026 at 8:21 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Thanks Zeke, I just saw this and will respond with some ideas. Chris > On 6/26/2026 6:06 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > > This sounds like the old buy all sell all system with two meters. I > didn't realize any utilities were still doing this. But the way that we'd > do it on a grid-tie system was have one meter measuring production that > then connected into the grid on the utility side of the meter going to the > house. During a sunny day, the energy used by the house would first be > sold to the utility through the production meter, then bought right back > through the normal loads meter. > > Doing a battery backup system would, I think, be wired up the same way. > The PV array would have its own grid-direct inverter selling power to the > grid, and then the battery backup system would draw power from the grid for > charging -- it would be set up as a UPS type system, not knowing that any > solar existed at all. > > If the grid went down, you would not be able to power the house or charge > the batteries from the solar, as it would be connected on the dead grid > side of any transfer switches from the backup power, and I think this would > meet the utilities intent -- if the grid is down, they cannot purchase any > electricity, so therefore, generating electricity to recharge your > batteries or use would not be allowed. > > Frankly, if faced with a tarriff like this, I would seriously look into > what it would take to get rid of the grid connection entirely and do an > actual off-grid system. I figure that most batteries right now cost about > 4 to 5 cents/kWh for energy stored then used. So it would depend on the > load profile and how much was used during the daytime and how much at > night, but if the buy rate is more than 2 or 3 cents more than the sell > rate, I would think it would be cheaper to invest in batteries and pay 0 > markup during the daytime, and 4 or 5 cents battery cost at nighttime, > rather than paying more than 2 or 3 cents markup all the time. > > Usually, even when faced with very unattractive buy/sell rates, I still > recommend that people maintain their grid connection, even if only to use > it in place of a standby generator fill in during winter weather. Even > paying a $50/month standby charge to maintain a grid connection you almost > never use can be cheaper than maintaining an actual physical generator. > But if you aren't allowed to even use your own solar power on site without > incurring their markup, then that could be a different story. > > Zeke > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 10:39?AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to them > > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A couple > > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one > this > > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that > was > > possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different settings > > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. > > > > > > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this? Signature Solar did not > > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really > > produced the results I was hoping for. > > > > > > Thank you, Chris > > > > > > > -- > > Christopher Warfel, PE > > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > > (401) 447-5773 > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 1:13 PM > wrote: > >> Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." >> >> >> When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the >> Subject: line to the exact original, and please edit out any extraneous >> lines from the quoted message. >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. How to sell maximum amount from EG4 (Christopher Warfel) >> 2. Re: How to sell maximum amount from EG4 (Dave Tedeyan) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:36:32 -0400 >> From: Christopher Warfel >> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> >> > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to them >> at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A couple >> of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one this >> past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that was >> possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different settings >> in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. >> >> >> Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this?? Signature Solar did not >> have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really >> produced the results I was hoping for. >> >> >> Thank you, Chris >> >> > >> -- >> Christopher Warfel, PE >> ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >> (401) 447-5773 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2026 10:42:53 -0400 >> From: Dave Tedeyan >> To: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com, RE-wrenches >> >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] How to sell maximum amount from EG4 >> Message-ID: >> > hO6BXe8nkQH-WvLkHrJSSm-B_-rK_AW9FnVw at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> You can try contacting EG4 directly. I've had good luck talking to them as >> well when I have had questions. They were good about helping me derate the >> grid sell for a couple inverters to stay below our utilities residential >> limit, and then signing a form for us to give to the utility. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 10:39?AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> > > Our local utility has a requirement that ALL generation be sold to >> them >> > at avoided cost, and that ALL purchases be made at tariff rate. A >> couple >> > of years ago before installing an EG4 system (which I did my first one >> this >> > past year), I told the president of the coop that I did not think that >> was >> > possible with multi mode systems. I've tried a lot of different >> settings >> > in the EG4 but it seems not to make a big difference. >> > >> > >> > Does anyone have knowledge of how to do this? Signature Solar did not >> > have a definitive answer, and what we have tried so far, has not really >> > produced the results I was hoping for. >> > >> > >> > Thank you, Chris >> > >> > > >> > -- >> > Christopher Warfel, PE >> > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >> > (401) 447-5773 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the >> > other: >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260626/74fb284c/attachment-0001.htm >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 19, Issue 173 >> ******************************************** >> > > > -- > Zeke Yewdall > PV Engineer > NABCEP #031508-89 > zeke at darkforestsolar.com > 303-523-3592 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david2coale at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 17:27:32 2026 From: david2coale at gmail.com (David Coale) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2026 14:27:32 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Re-using/recycling old solar panels Message-ID: Hi All, I was wondering what people are doing when they have a bunch of old solar panels that work, but are less than 200 watts/20 years old, and harder to get rid of? Specifically, in the SF Bay Area, are there any recyclers or organizations that will take working panels for reuse or recycling? Thanks, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Jun 30 18:24:31 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2026 16:24:31 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Re-using/recycling old solar panels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5842b766-5ce1-47c2-9a5a-ed3bd8fd5a47@solarray.com> Here in the Denver area, I've taken them to the Habitat for Humanity Restore.  When I went in a few weeks later, they had sold them all. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 6/30/2026 3:27 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi All, > > I was wondering what people are doing when they have a bunch of old > solar panels that work, but are less than 200 watts/20 years old, and > harder to get rid of? > > Specifically, in the SF Bay Area, are there any recyclers or > organizations that will take working panels for reuse or recycling? > > Thanks, > > David > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From autonomousenergies at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 18:32:48 2026 From: autonomousenergies at gmail.com (AE Solar) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2026 18:32:48 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Re-using/recycling old solar panels In-Reply-To: <5842b766-5ce1-47c2-9a5a-ed3bd8fd5a47@solarray.com> References: <5842b766-5ce1-47c2-9a5a-ed3bd8fd5a47@solarray.com> Message-ID: On a similar tip as Ray we have an Army Surplus type store that will take them, and they seem to disappear. But only in quantities associated with residential systems…not in any sort of bulk. Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 6:27 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Here in the Denver area, I've taken them to the Habitat for Humanity > Restore. When I went in a few weeks later, they had sold them all. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > On 6/30/2026 3:27 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I was wondering what people are doing when they have a bunch of old > > solar panels that work, but are less than 200 watts/20 years old, and > > harder to get rid of? > > > > Specifically, in the SF Bay Area, are there any recyclers or > > organizations that will take working panels for reuse or recycling? > > > > Thanks, > > > > David > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Harry.Mahon at sma-america.com Tue Jun 30 22:01:57 2026 From: Harry.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2026 02:01:57 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches – our Senior Director of Service for String Inverters asked me to post a response to the feedback given in this thread. I think much of this will come as welcome news. As mentioned, feel free to provide feedback via the OSC to SMA Service line or here on the boards through me. Mike “I want to acknowledge the experience Matt described and some of the concerns Jason raised around the current service access process and legacy product handling. On the case number requirement: today, the phone system is designed to prioritize active cases, which is why a valid case number is requested to route calls. However, we’ve heard the feedback clearly that this can create a barrier—especially in situations where an installer cannot create a case due to SMA ID or Online Service Center (OSC) access issues. Within the next couple of days, we are implementing changes to both system messaging and internal workflows to ensure there is still a path for installers to reach a member of the service team in these scenarios. The goal is to make sure account/access issues don’t block you from getting to the right support channel. For end customers, we will continue to guide them to the OSC (cases and chat), but installers will have a supported path to reach service even without a valid case number when needed. On the “legacy product” messaging: what Matt experienced is consistent with how the system is currently handling certain older units, but we recognize the experience needs improvement. We are updating how legacy products are handled so it’s more clear and actionable. That includes: * Supporting smoother paths for repowering when units are truly out of warranty * Ensuring that units which may still be within factory or extended warranty are properly validated * Allowing continued phone-based troubleshooting support (including escalation through higher tiers) when eligible For systems from around 2015, many will be out of standard warranty, but not all cases are straightforward, so validation remains important, and we want to make sure installers can get a definitive answer and the right next step. As we work through these updates, we remain very open to feedback. The recent changes prompted a lot of useful input from this group, and we’re actively adjusting to make sure we stay reachable and supportive. As we work through these updates, we want to make sure you’re not blocked. If you encounter issues accessing OSC or creating a case, please escalate through your SMA Service contact or provide feedback in additional posts (here).” Michael Mahon (he/him) Manager of Solar Academy | SMA America +1 916 918 9412 SMA America | Solar Academy | TechTip Channel | Upcoming Academy Trainings [cid:image001.jpg at 01DD08CB.4D593C60] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, June 26, 2026 5:47 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Matt Sherald Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 Thanks for all of your responses. Jason, I appreciate your strategy of preparing system owners for inverter replacement ahead of time. I can understand how that would make the process less unpleasant.for all involved. Sam and Harry, I did use the SMA support system, but it didn't work for me. I have a ticket number that was passed along to me by the system owner. Upon calling SMA I encountered an automated service that asked me to enter the ticket number. I did so and the automated service responded with a message that basically said the TL was old and no longer eligible for support. It also stated that an email with more detail would be forthcoming. As of the following day, no email had arrived which left the system owner and myself at a bit of a loss for how to best proceed. Anyway, I sure appreciate the help from the Wrenches list. Thanks for taking time to share what you know. -Matt On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 6:00 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: Harry, I don't think you can call into SMA at all anymore without setting up a case online first and providing a case number to the phone robot. It's really annoying. That's not good customer service. That's unnecessary hoops for installers to jump through. I really wish SMA would rethink this process. With that said, after the hassle they put you through just to talk to a human, the tech support I have received recently has been competent, and warranty diagnostics are not particularly onerous. On the issue, that is almost definitely an internal intermittent component fault associated with heat. SMA tech support isn't likely to provide actionable out-of-warranty support for that in the field. A replacement board or repair probably won't be worth the effort. You're likely looking at replacement. Ask tech support if they have an out-of-warranty replacement discount option in this case. You might be able to get a refurbished or updated unit at a discount if you return the faulty unit. I have been telling clients for many years to *expect* inverter replacement just outside of the warranty period. I want my clients budgeting for this scenario. It has really cut down on the awkwardness and friction in these repair-or-replace scenarios. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Jun 25, 2026 at 6:56 PM Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches > wrote: Matt - Echoing Sam’s comments – have you created a case for this system on the Online Service Center(OSC) - https://my.sma-service.com/ ? This is now the best way to track and resolve SMA Service cases. (If you need to call in, it is best to have a case number when you call – you can create a case at any time on the OSC, so do this prior to site visit if you suspect you will need to call from site) If you do not have an OSC account, you will be asked to create an SMA ID first (a single login that is used now to log into Sunny Design, Sunny Portal and the OSC). ENSURE that if you are migrating an old Sunny Design/Sunny Portal login to an SMA ID or creating an SMA ID fresh, that you select a COMPANY account not a PERSONAL account. This will flag for Service if you are an installer/O&M person vs system owner. If you have an OSC account, but have not migrated the login to an SMA ID yet, you will have already designated your OSC account as personal or company, so the account type will carry over to your SMA ID when you migrate your old login to an SMA ID. The first company user to create an SMA ID will be an admin for all SMA ID’s for your company – you can send invites from the SMA ID dashboard for other employees to create SMA IDs. Creating SMA IDs this way will link all these accounts on the OSC – all company service tickets will be visible on the OSC dashboard. This OSC knowledge article has more info on the Company SMA ID process: SMA ID Registration of Company Account Is this specific inverter equipped with a comms module/registered to Sunny Portal? Definitely that can help with troubleshooting. The SWDM-US-10 accessory module that allows the SB TL-US-10 line to connect to home router (via Ethernet only, no WiFi option) is available through distribution if retrofit is desired (this was brought back as it has been very popular for homeowners with old SunPower branded SB TL-US-10s trying to re-establish monitoring outside of SunPower. Best regards – Mike Michael Mahon (he/him) Manager of Solar Academy | SMA America +1 916 918 9412 SMA America | Solar Academy | TechTip Channel | Upcoming Academy Trainings [cid:image001.jpg at 01DD08CB.4D593C60] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2026 7:24 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Sam Haraldson > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 6304 Error Code on 5000TL-US-22 Matt, How diligent have you been with SMA tech support? I know they have three levels of support and can elevate cases to an engineering team at their HQ beyond that. If you haven't yet, formally file a support ticket and then call the service line. Prepare to tell the same story you've probably already told to the level I technician and if they run out of answers ask to be elevated to level II. From there, continue asking questions. They should then inform you that they will take the issue offline to their behind-the-scenes team and work with you via email through their support ticket system. SMA has really stepped up its installer support process recently and it provides qualified installers a far easier and fluid process. Cheers, Sam [OnSite Energy] Sam Haraldson Operations Specialist On Wed, Jun 24, 2026 at 5:45 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hello! I'm hoping someone on the list has experience with the 6304 code on the SB 5000TL-US-22 or similar vintage (2015) SMA inverter. I was asked to troubleshoot an inverter that has developed a daily habit of throwing this error and stopping production. The production curves over the last several days show production in the AM that builds and then abruptly stops late AM./mid-day. It looks like a problem caused by AC voltage rise, but my multimeter readings at both the main breaker and on the circuit board of the inverter stayed below 258V even at peak production. My impression from the online SMA documentation is that this is a metering error internal to the inverter and is not fixable. SMA does not seem to want to deal with this legacy model through tech support channels. It might be time for a new inverter, but I wanted to canvas the folks on the list before I gave up on this older model. -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 39899 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 23:56:52 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2026 20:56:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Re-using/recycling old solar panels In-Reply-To: References: <5842b766-5ce1-47c2-9a5a-ed3bd8fd5a47@solarray.com> Message-ID: I use CL, 25 to 75 ea. Inverters that work 200 to 250,. With bad modules l take the frames off and they go to a recycling facility that will take them but at a cost, usually 25 ea. Land fills do not except panels any more. I have had better luck selling mono's then poly's, LG, Sharp 175/185's these go quick, don't even try to sell Trina, BP, Suntec or brands l would never sell new. Had a school that wanted some but l had to pay them a scrap charge so that did not happen. Fun times On Tue, Jun 30, 2026, 3:34 PM AE Solar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > On a similar tip as Ray we have an Army Surplus type store that will take > them, and they seem to disappear. But only in quantities associated with > residential systems…not in any sort of bulk. > > > Adam Katzman (he/him) > Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator > www.AutonomousEnergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 6:27 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Here in the Denver area, I've taken them to the Habitat for Humanity >> Restore. When I went in a few weeks later, they had sold them all. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> >> On 6/30/2026 3:27 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: >> > Hi All, >> > >> > I was wondering what people are doing when they have a bunch of old >> > solar panels that work, but are less than 200 watts/20 years old, and >> > harder to get rid of? >> > >> > Specifically, in the SF Bay Area, are there any recyclers or >> > organizations that will take working panels for reuse or recycling? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > David >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Wed Jul 1 13:14:25 2026 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2026 17:14:25 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Re-using/recycling old solar panels In-Reply-To: References: <5842b766-5ce1-47c2-9a5a-ed3bd8fd5a47@solarray.com> Message-ID: I had roughly a thousand solar modules that were either new unused surplus or had frame mounting hole damage that would not allow them to be used on the racks. They were all 100% functional and safe. They were available from some NEXTERA projects we worked on. I tried donating them organizations like Energy Foot Print but in all cases they were unresponsive. I ultimately gave them away to various people who were building their own solar systems for remote cabins, RV's etc. They all went quickly and are now working in good homes. The only thing I asked was that the recipients come and pick them up, and agree to put them to good use. Generally speaking, older used modules are not going to perform like modern new ones but are still useful and are a good value, particularly for small systems on a tight budget. Pieter Huebner Project Manager Off Grid Enterprises ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2026 10:56 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Re-using/recycling old solar panels I use CL, 25 to 75 ea. Inverters that work 200 to 250,. With bad modules l take the frames off and they go to a recycling facility that will take them but at a cost, usually 25 ea. Land fills do not except panels any more. I have had better luck selling mono's then poly's, LG, Sharp 175/185's these go quick, don't even try to sell Trina, BP, Suntec or brands l would never sell new. Had a school that wanted some but l had to pay them a scrap charge so that did not happen. Fun times On Tue, Jun 30, 2026, 3:34 PM AE Solar via RE-wrenches > wrote: On a similar tip as Ray we have an Army Surplus type store that will take them, and they seem to disappear. But only in quantities associated with residential systems…not in any sort of bulk. Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 6:27 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > wrote: Here in the Denver area, I've taken them to the Habitat for Humanity Restore. When I went in a few weeks later, they had sold them all. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 6/30/2026 3:27 PM, David Coale via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi All, > > I was wondering what people are doing when they have a bunch of old > solar panels that work, but are less than 200 watts/20 years old, and > harder to get rid of? > > Specifically, in the SF Bay Area, are there any recyclers or > organizations that will take working panels for reuse or recycling? > > Thanks, > > David > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 10:27:12 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2026 08:27:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series Message-ID: Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to stack an SW Series Inverter with an SW Plus Series for 120-240V? What’s Required, if So. Thank You Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at getpimby.com Tue Jul 14 10:57:59 2026 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matt Sherald) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 10:57:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Start for Iron Edison Li Message-ID: Hello, Has anyone tried to bring an Iron Edison IE48V200 or similar IE model back to life? I've worked on this particular off-grid system intermittently over the years. Recently, the owner arrived for a weekend at the cabin and discovered no lights on any of the electronics or on the IE battery. The cabin had not been used for six or eight weeks. I disconnected the battery from the system and read the terminals with a DMM. There appears to be 2V. Is this a heartbeat? Can I connect a 48V charger and hope to get it back up and running? This is the only IE that I've encountered. I am grateful for any help (I believe the manufacturer is out of business). -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Tue Jul 14 10:59:00 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 10:59:00 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 6000XP Module Match Message-ID: <29de47f5ba63a286f94d2501ac802d19@redwoodalliance.org> I am looking for a module to use with an EG4 6000 XP inverter. The module I am looking at has an Isc of 14.47 A. Multiplied by 1.56, that comes out to 22.6 A. The max current allowed on the PV input is 17 A? A distributor thought it would be fine to use this combination. Do you think it would be safe? Thank you, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 11:23:36 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 09:23:36 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 6000XP Module Match In-Reply-To: <29de47f5ba63a286f94d2501ac802d19@redwoodalliance.org> References: <29de47f5ba63a286f94d2501ac802d19@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Hi drake Unless you have high elevation or edge of cloud, you should be good to go. Max short circuit is 25 amps fyi. I’ve always recommended the 12kw. Only slightly more expensive but gives lots better out of balance load rating than the 6kw. Jay > On Jul 14, 2026, at 9:02 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > > I am looking for a module to use with an EG4 6000 XP inverter. The module I am looking at has an Isc of 14.47 A. Multiplied by 1.56, that comes out to 22.6 A. The max current allowed on the PV input is 17 A? > > A distributor thought it would be fine to use this combination. Do you think it would be safe? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > > Athens Electric LLC > > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 11:33:51 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 09:33:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Start for Iron Edison Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BCEC8AC-1B91-4770-AE19-AD2A8A6E1BCC@gmail.com> This the nickel iron battery correct? You’ll need a charger like iota or lithium back start type which you just hook up direct. A short cut is to turn off the dc loads side of the system and hit the battery with PV volts directly. Then once the battery has enough volts to start the CC, it’ll start charging. There must be some dc loads on which drained the batteries. Hard to know if they are dead. They are hard to kill but not impossible. Good luck > On Jul 14, 2026, at 8:59 AM, Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hello, > > Has anyone tried to bring an Iron Edison IE48V200 or similar IE model back to life? > > I've worked on this particular off-grid system intermittently over the years. Recently, the owner arrived for a weekend at the cabin and discovered no lights on any of the electronics or on the IE battery. The cabin had not been used for six or eight weeks. > > I disconnected the battery from the system and read the terminals with a DMM. There appears to be 2V. Is this a heartbeat? Can I connect a 48V charger and hope to get it back up and running? > > This is the only IE that I've encountered. I am grateful for any help (I believe the manufacturer is out of business). > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From matt at getpimby.com Tue Jul 14 12:08:28 2026 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matt Sherald) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 12:08:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Start for Iron Edison Li In-Reply-To: <3BCEC8AC-1B91-4770-AE19-AD2A8A6E1BCC@gmail.com> References: <3BCEC8AC-1B91-4770-AE19-AD2A8A6E1BCC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Jay! It's a Li battery. While Iron Edison is no longer in business, I believe that ReLion offers a very similar battery. I'll give the charger a try. -Matt On Tue, Jul 14, 2026 at 11:34 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This the nickel iron battery correct? > > You’ll need a charger like iota or lithium back start type which you just > hook up direct. > > A short cut is to turn off the dc loads side of the system and hit the > battery with PV volts directly. Then once the battery has enough volts to > start the CC, it’ll start charging. > > There must be some dc loads on which drained the batteries. > Hard to know if they are dead. They are hard to kill but not impossible. > > Good luck > > > > On Jul 14, 2026, at 8:59 AM, Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > >  > > Hello, > > > > Has anyone tried to bring an Iron Edison IE48V200 or similar IE model > back to life? > > > > I've worked on this particular off-grid system intermittently over the > years. Recently, the owner arrived for a weekend at the cabin and > discovered no lights on any of the electronics or on the IE battery. The > cabin had not been used for six or eight weeks. > > > > I disconnected the battery from the system and read the terminals with a > DMM. There appears to be 2V. Is this a heartbeat? Can I connect a 48V > charger and hope to get it back up and running? > > > > This is the only IE that I've encountered. I am grateful for any help > (I believe the manufacturer is out of business). > > > > -- > > Matt Sherald > > PIMBY Energy, LLC > > 304-704-5943 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 12:20:36 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 10:20:36 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Start for Iron Edison Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Tue Jul 14 16:52:16 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 13:52:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Start for Iron Edison Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Those batteries are a ReLion battery. I was picking one up at the Iron Edison warehouse in Denver once and actually saw them peel the ReLion sticker off and put on their own sticker before loading it for me. I have had a few of those die -- one it was just the BMS, and one actually had a bad cell (actually a block of like 90 cells for the 300Ah version -- little cylindrical cells). If it won't recover from having an external 48 volt charger applied to it, it's pretty easy to take the top of the battery off and get inside and measure individual cell voltages and see if there's a bad cell block in there. There is someone who is helping with warranty support of those IE branded ReLion batteries... I can find his info if it won't come back and you need it. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarpenrose at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 22:01:20 2026 From: allsolarpenrose at gmail.com (All Solar) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 20:01:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has anyone tried to stack an SWPlus 5548 with an SW5548? I’m trying to make sure, before I try harder to sell the SWplus Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 8:27 AM All Solar wrote: > Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to stack an SW Series Inverter with an > SW Plus Series for 120-240V? > What’s Required, if So. > > Thank You > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Tue Jul 14 22:15:54 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 22:15:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 6000XP Module Match In-Reply-To: References: <29de47f5ba63a286f94d2501ac802d19@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <0eb495831525a55fcc9929e42adddeeb@redwoodalliance.org> 25 A Isc is good. Thanks for pointing that out. I will consider using the 12KW. I noticed that it accepts a lower voltage for the PV input, but 2 strings can go on each MPPT. On 2026-07-14 11:23, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi drake > > Unless you have high elevation or edge of cloud, you should be good to > go. > Max short circuit is 25 amps fyi. > > I've always recommended the 12kw. Only slightly more expensive but > gives lots better out of balance load rating than the 6kw. > > Jay > >> On Jul 14, 2026, at 9:02 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >> wrote: > >> I am looking for a module to use with an EG4 6000 XP inverter. The >> module I am looking at has an Isc of 14.47 A. Multiplied by 1.56, >> that comes out to 22.6 A. The max current allowed on the PV input is >> 17 A? >> >> A distributor thought it would be fine to use this combination. Do >> you think it would be safe? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake ____________________________________________ -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Jul 14 23:23:27 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2026 21:23:27 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I never liked the original SW5548. It had different firmware and actually can't surge as much as an SW4048. The 5548 does have a very heavy transformer, so they would be good for a heavy continuous load that didn't surge much on startup.  They're hard to put up on a wall. I don't know anything about the SW+, I had switched to Outback back then.    Did you read in the SW+ manual that it could be stacked with the SW?  Unless they designed that into it, I'm guessing they wouldn't stack. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 7/14/2026 8:01 PM, All Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > Has anyone tried to stack an SWPlus 5548 with an SW5548? > I’m trying to make sure, before I try harder to sell the SWplus > > > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 8:27 AM All Solar > wrote: > > Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to stack an SW Series Inverter > with an SW Plus Series for 120-240V? > What’s Required, if So. > > Thank You > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Wed Jul 15 09:39:31 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 06:39:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To make them stack, they both have to have the same firmware. Unfortunately, the SW5548 and the SW+5548 had very different firmware, and I don't think you'll be able to connect them up with a SWI/PAR Kit. You might be able to make them a "Magic Stack" for 120/240, but once you lose the generator/grid input, and depending on the loads, the waveforms will drift out of phase, and you could get a backfeed. "Magic Stacking" was when you wired them in 120/240 and used a generator or grid power to sync the output waveforms. That waveform would stay synced for quite some time, days if not weeks, as long as you didn't load them more than 75%. *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Tue, Jul 14, 2026 at 8:26 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I never liked the original SW5548. It had different firmware and actually > can't surge as much as an SW4048. The 5548 does have a very heavy > transformer, so they would be good for a heavy continuous load that didn't > surge much on startup. They're hard to put up on a wall. > > I don't know anything about the SW+, I had switched to Outback back then. > Did you read in the SW+ manual that it could be stacked with the SW? > Unless they designed that into it, I'm guessing they wouldn't stack. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > On 7/14/2026 8:01 PM, All Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Has anyone tried to stack an SWPlus 5548 with an SW5548? > I’m trying to make sure, before I try harder to sell the SWplus > > > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar Inc. > Penrose CO > 719-276-4954 > Established 1998 > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 8:27 AM All Solar > wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to stack an SW Series Inverter with >> an SW Plus Series for 120-240V? >> What’s Required, if So. >> >> Thank You >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> All Solar Inc. >> Penrose CO >> 719-276-4954 >> Established 1998 >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chris at OasisMontana.com Wed Jul 15 09:49:51 2026 From: Chris at OasisMontana.com (Chris Daum) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 07:49:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002501dd1460$cf852b90$6e8f82b0$@OasisMontana.com> The stacked units must be identical. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2026 9:23 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Ray Walters Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series I never liked the original SW5548. It had different firmware and actually can't surge as much as an SW4048. The 5548 does have a very heavy transformer, so they would be good for a heavy continuous load that didn't surge much on startup. They're hard to put up on a wall. I don't know anything about the SW+, I had switched to Outback back then. Did you read in the SW+ manual that it could be stacked with the SW? Unless they designed that into it, I'm guessing they wouldn't stack. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 7/14/2026 8:01 PM, All Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: Has anyone tried to stack an SWPlus 5548 with an SW5548? I’m trying to make sure, before I try harder to sell the SWplus Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 8:27 AM All Solar > wrote: Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to stack an SW Series Inverter with an SW Plus Series for 120-240V? What’s Required, if So. Thank You Jeremy Rodriguez All Solar Inc. Penrose CO 719-276-4954 Established 1998 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Wed Jul 15 09:53:25 2026 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 09:53:25 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve pulled that one out of the old timers closet! Had forgotten about “Magic Stack” and the reason it was even a thing! Firmware issues will not let you stack the SW ‘s as you hope to. Even if you use a hack and get it done it will not be a reliable setup for a customer. On Wed, Jul 15, 2026 at 9:40 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > To make them stack, they both have to have the same firmware. > Unfortunately, the SW5548 and the SW+5548 had very different firmware, and > I don't think you'll be able to connect them up with a SWI/PAR Kit. > > You might be able to make them a "Magic Stack" for 120/240, but once you > lose the generator/grid input, and depending on the loads, the waveforms > will drift out of phase, and you could get a backfeed. > > "Magic Stacking" was when you wired them in 120/240 and used a generator > or grid power to sync the output waveforms. That waveform would stay > synced for quite some time, days if not weeks, as long as you didn't load > them more than 75%. > > > *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* > *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 > *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com > ------------------------------ > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2026 at 8:26 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I never liked the original SW5548. It had different firmware and actually >> can't surge as much as an SW4048. The 5548 does have a very heavy >> transformer, so they would be good for a heavy continuous load that didn't >> surge much on startup. They're hard to put up on a wall. >> >> I don't know anything about the SW+, I had switched to Outback back >> then. Did you read in the SW+ manual that it could be stacked with the >> SW? Unless they designed that into it, I'm guessing they wouldn't stack. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> On 7/14/2026 8:01 PM, All Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Has anyone tried to stack an SWPlus 5548 with an SW5548? >> I’m trying to make sure, before I try harder to sell the SWplus >> >> >> >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> All Solar Inc. >> Penrose CO >> 719-276-4954 >> Established 1998 >> >> On Wed, Jul 8, 2026 at 8:27 AM All Solar >> wrote: >> >>> Can anyone tell me if it’s possible to stack an SW Series Inverter with >>> an SW Plus Series for 120-240V? >>> What’s Required, if So. >>> >>> Thank You >>> >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> All Solar Inc. >>> Penrose CO >>> 719-276-4954 >>> Established 1998 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Jul 15 10:21:36 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 07:21:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My experience with SW inverters not synced with a cable is that they would drift to 180 degrees out of sync over a period of about 20 minutes. I could measure phase to phase and see it go from ~240VAC to 0VAC in that time frame. In another 20 minutes or so the volts would creep back up to 240 again. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com On Wed, Jul 15, 2026 at 6:57 AM > >> "Magic Stacking" was when you wired them in 120/240 and used a generator >> or grid power to sync the output waveforms. That waveform would stay >> synced for quite some time, days if not weeks, as long as you didn't load >> them more than 75%. >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Wed Jul 15 13:18:18 2026 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 10:18:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Stacking SW Series In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, there is a reason it was called "Magic Stacking"... If the load were simple resistive loads and remained light, it generally wasn't an issue... but if the loads were inductive and heavy, that would cause phase drift and lead to all kinds of problems. Magic stacking is generally not a permanent solution, but in a pinch, it could work. *Steve Higgins* *⋅* *Technical Services Manager* *t* +1.902.597.4020 *m* +1.206.790.5840 *f* +1.902.597.8447 *e* steve at surrette.com ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Wed, Jul 15, 2026 at 7:25 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > My experience with SW inverters not synced with a cable is that they would > drift to 180 degrees out of sync over a period of about 20 minutes. I could > measure phase to phase and see it go from ~240VAC to 0VAC in that time > frame. In another 20 minutes or so the volts would creep back up to 240 > again. > > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2026 at 6:57 AM > >> >>> "Magic Stacking" was when you wired them in 120/240 and used a >>> generator or grid power to sync the output waveforms. That waveform would >>> stay synced for quite some time, days if not weeks, as long as you didn't >>> load them more than 75%. >>> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Wed Jul 15 13:47:57 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 11:47:57 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shell Solar Warranty? Message-ID: <28a00ce9-96e6-4bdc-bfaf-c8712389b90c@solarray.com> Greetings Fellow Installers; I have an old system with 24 Shell SP 140 modules from the mid 2000s that are at 30% rated output.  I have 2 questions: 1) Has anyone else seen failures of the Shell modules?  They do not appear to otherwise have any visible issues.  I have even older Arco and Siemens modules that look terrible, but are still at 80% or better output. 2) I know that Solarworld bought Shell Solar, and that they are now also out of business, is there any warranty still available, or was the 25 year warranty just blowing smoke? Thanks in advance for your replies, Ray Walters Remote Solar From toddcory at finestplanet.com Wed Jul 15 14:05:26 2026 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (toddcory at finestplanet.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 11:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?Shell_Solar_Warranty=3F?= In-Reply-To: <28a00ce9-96e6-4bdc-bfaf-c8712389b90c@solarray.com> References: <28a00ce9-96e6-4bdc-bfaf-c8712389b90c@solarray.com> Message-ID: <1784138726.154610348@webmail.finestplanet.com> I had a 17 year old rack of 80 watt Shell modules fail. They were in 4 module series strings and each string had 1 or 2 modules fail taking out the entire array. Todd On Wednesday, July 15, 2026 10:47am, "Ray Walters via RE-wrenches" said: > Greetings Fellow Installers; > > I have an old system with 24 Shell SP 140 modules from the mid 2000s > that are at 30% rated output. I have 2 questions: > 1) Has anyone else seen failures of the Shell modules? They do not > appear to otherwise have any visible issues. I have even older Arco and > Siemens modules that look terrible, but are still at 80% or better output. > > 2) I know that Solarworld bought Shell Solar, and that they are now also > out of business, is there any warranty still available, or was the 25 > year warranty just blowing smoke? > > Thanks in advance for your replies, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Wed Jul 15 15:29:12 2026 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 13:29:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shell Solar Warranty? In-Reply-To: <1784138726.154610348@webmail.finestplanet.com> References: <28a00ce9-96e6-4bdc-bfaf-c8712389b90c@solarray.com> <1784138726.154610348@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: Were you able to do a warranty replacement, or did you just replace them outside the warranty? Thanks, Ray On 7/15/2026 12:05 PM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I had a 17 year old rack of 80 watt Shell modules fail. They were in 4 > module series strings and each string had 1 or 2 modules fail taking > out the entire array. > > Todd > > > On Wednesday, July 15, 2026 10:47am, "Ray Walters via RE-wrenches" > said: > > > Greetings Fellow Installers; > > > > I have an old system with 24 Shell SP 140 modules from the mid 2000s > > that are at 30% rated output.  I have 2 questions: > > 1) Has anyone else seen failures of the Shell modules? They do not > > appear to otherwise have any visible issues.  I have even older Arco and > > Siemens modules that look terrible, but are still at 80% or better > output. > > > > 2) I know that Solarworld bought Shell Solar, and that they are now also > > out of business, is there any warranty still available, or was the 25 > > year warranty just blowing smoke? > > > > Thanks in advance for your replies, > > > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toddcory at finestplanet.com Wed Jul 15 16:01:18 2026 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (Todd Cory) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 21:01:18 +0100 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shell Solar Warranty? In-Reply-To: References: <28a00ce9-96e6-4bdc-bfaf-c8712389b90c@solarray.com> <1784138726.154610348@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: <19f675e8eb0.284a.4317fda5bda71af373de9c45c94f08a7@finestplanet.com> I just replaced them with new modules which increased the output by 50%! On 15 July 2026 20:31:46 Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote: > Were you able to do a warranty replacement, or did you just replace them > outside the warranty? > Thanks, > Ray > On 7/15/2026 12:05 PM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote: >> I had a 17 year old rack of 80 watt Shell modules fail. They were in 4 >> module series strings and each string had 1 or 2 modules fail taking out >> the entire array. >> >> Todd >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, July 15, 2026 10:47am, "Ray Walters via RE-wrenches" >> said: >> >>> Greetings Fellow Installers; >>> >>> I have an old system with 24 Shell SP 140 modules from the mid 2000s >>> that are at 30% rated output. I have 2 questions: >>> 1) Has anyone else seen failures of the Shell modules? They do not >>> appear to otherwise have any visible issues. I have even older Arco and >>> Siemens modules that look terrible, but are still at 80% or better output. >>> >>> 2) I know that Solarworld bought Shell Solar, and that they are now also >>> out of business, is there any warranty still available, or was the 25 >>> year warranty just blowing smoke? >>> >>> Thanks in advance for your replies, >>> >>> Ray Walters >>> Remote Solar >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >>> other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> >> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: >> http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There >> are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List >> rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Sent with Aqua Mail for Android -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 16:49:17 2026 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 13:49:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shell Solar Warranty? In-Reply-To: <19f675e8eb0.284a.4317fda5bda71af373de9c45c94f08a7@finestplanet.com> References: <28a00ce9-96e6-4bdc-bfaf-c8712389b90c@solarray.com> <1784138726.154610348@webmail.finestplanet.com> <19f675e8eb0.284a.4317fda5bda71af373de9c45c94f08a7@finestplanet.com> Message-ID: Wrenches, Warranty well that may be difficult but l recall the junction box held diodes that can fail, look there first, easy to tell, they like the seimens boxes behind the modules, these can be repaired/replaced. You can also look for cigarette burns on the back side, an indication of tracing failure not repairable Fun times On Wed, Jul 15, 2026, 1:08 PM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I just replaced them with new modules which increased the output by 50%! > > On 15 July 2026 20:31:46 Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Were you able to do a warranty replacement, or did you just replace them >> outside the warranty? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray >> On 7/15/2026 12:05 PM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> I had a 17 year old rack of 80 watt Shell modules fail. They were in 4 >> module series strings and each string had 1 or 2 modules fail taking out >> the entire array. >> >> Todd >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, July 15, 2026 10:47am, "Ray Walters via RE-wrenches" >> >> said: >> >> > Greetings Fellow Installers; >> > >> > I have an old system with 24 Shell SP 140 modules from the mid 2000s >> > that are at 30% rated output. I have 2 questions: >> > 1) Has anyone else seen failures of the Shell modules? They do not >> > appear to otherwise have any visible issues. I have even older Arco and >> > Siemens modules that look terrible, but are still at 80% or better >> output. >> > >> > 2) I know that Solarworld bought Shell Solar, and that they are now also >> > out of business, is there any warranty still available, or was the 25 >> > year warranty just blowing smoke? >> > >> > Thanks in advance for your replies, >> > >> > Ray Walters >> > Remote Solar >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > > Sent with Aqua Mail for Android > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zeke at darkforestsolar.com Wed Jul 15 17:16:25 2026 From: zeke at darkforestsolar.com (Zeke Yewdall) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2026 14:16:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shell Solar Warranty? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If they are at 30% of rated output, is it current or voltage that's suffering at Vmp? And how does Voc and Isc stack up to rated values? Have you done a IV curve on the actual module, or just measuring the total array? What sort of MPPT are you using on them? My experience with old modules is that they are usually still good (80% or better of rated power), or are completely dead (open circuit, no output). 70% loss while not being completely dead seems odd. I have had an issue with some older 36 cell 120 watt modules, which made it appear that they had precipitously dropped in output, when really it was only about a 10 or 15% drop in Vmp and Voc. But this was enough for the charge controller to fall off the IV curve, and drop the current by almost 50% just because of the position on the IV curve. In this case, they were two 36 cell modules in series, charging a 24 volt battery (some configuration that the old PWM charge controller had used) -- the charge controller could not track any lower voltage because it had to stay at battery voltage + a few volts. So a relatively mild loss in Vmp had resulted in a serious loss in output power due to the MPPT tracking details. When I rewired them in strings of 6 in series instead of 2 in series, the charge controller was able to maintain tracking on the actual Vmp, and power was at least 80% of rated again. I have had issues with shorted bypass diodes dropping voltage of some newer modules to 2/3 or 1/3 of rated output. In my cases, they were usually due to lighting strikes (also took out a bunch of other stuff, and upon repairing the other stuff, we found some strings of modules were not up to rated voltage, and upon testing individual modules, we found a couple of them to be exactly 1/3 or 2/3rds of normal voltage). A thermal image while the module is under load can identify shorted substrings of cells in a module -- the shorted string will be hotter than the portion still producing power. And, with some 120 watt Evergreen modules, which had two parallel strings of cells in them, I had issues with a bad internal connection to one of the parallel strings of cells -- which meant that voltage was normal, but current was only half of normal... this was a problem due to being wired in series in other modules that still had full current. Both Isc and Voc measured where they should for the complete string, but the curve was very much not right. Measuring individual modules showed that some were only half rated amperage. Zeke -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Sun Jul 19 14:15:15 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2026 14:15:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shell Solar Warranty? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I replaced a system with them.  I think realistically given the price of modules, the age of the Shell modules, bless and recycle the Shell modules, and replace.  The system owner for this project was astounded at how much more energy he had. Off grid system with generator. Chris On 7/15/2026 5:16 PM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches wrote: > If they are at 30% of rated output, is it current or voltage that's > suffering at Vmp?  And how does Voc and Isc stack up to rated values?  > Have you done a IV curve on the actual module, or just measuring the > total array?  What sort of MPPT are you using on them?  My experience > with old modules is that they are usually still good (80% or better of > rated power), or are completely dead (open circuit, no output).  70% > loss while not being completely dead seems odd. > > I have had an issue with some older 36 cell 120 watt modules, which > made it appear that they had precipitously dropped in output, when > really it was only about a 10 or 15% drop in Vmp and Voc.  But this > was enough for the charge controller to fall off the IV curve, and > drop the current by almost 50% just because of the position on the IV > curve.  In this case, they were two 36 cell modules in series, > charging a 24 volt battery (some configuration that the old PWM charge > controller had used) -- the charge controller could not track any > lower voltage because it had to stay at battery voltage + a few > volts.   So a relatively mild loss in Vmp had resulted in a serious > loss in output power due to the MPPT tracking details.  When I rewired > them in strings of 6 in series instead of 2 in series, the charge > controller was able to maintain tracking on the actual Vmp, and power > was at least 80% of rated again. > > I have had issues with shorted bypass diodes dropping voltage of some > newer modules to 2/3 or 1/3 of rated output.  In my cases, they were > usually due to lighting strikes (also took out a bunch of other stuff, > and upon repairing the other stuff, we found some strings of modules > were not up to rated voltage, and upon testing individual modules, we > found a couple of them to be exactly 1/3 or 2/3rds of normal > voltage).   A thermal image while the module is under load can > identify shorted substrings of cells in a module -- the shorted string > will be hotter than the portion still producing power. > > And, with some 120 watt Evergreen modules, which had two parallel > strings of cells in them, I had issues with a bad internal connection > to one of the parallel strings of cells -- which meant that voltage > was normal, but current was only half of normal... this was a problem > due to being wired in series in other modules that still had full > current.  Both Isc and Voc measured where they should for the complete > string, but the curve was very much not right.  Measuring individual > modules showed that some were only half rated amperage. > > Zeke > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Tue Jul 21 09:35:23 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 09:35:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers Message-ID: Hello, The Morningstar relay driver is a great device. It can measure 48VDC nominal and operate relays based on the measured voltage. The problem is that, if it is measuring 48VDC nominal, it outputs the same. Is there anything besides a charge controller that can measure 48 VDC nominal and put out a small 12VDC current? The 12VDC output of an Outback or Midnite charge control is perfect. If a relay driver, with several channels, could do this, it would be a very useful device. Does anything like this exist? Thanks, Drake _Drake Chamberlin_ _Athens Electric LLC_ _Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_ _NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at quattrosolar.com Tue Jul 21 10:54:06 2026 From: david at quattrosolar.com (David Quattro) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 07:54:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Drake, I’ve been wanting something just like what you described. AI generated answers for me. Sorry if the font turns out weird but here it is: Step-by-Step Implementation 1. Configure the Voltage Monitor - Connect the voltage sensing inputs of your monitoring relay directly to the battery bank. - Set the function mode to *Overvoltage (OV)* or *Window Mode*. - Adjust the trip threshold to *53.5V*. - Set the *hysteresis (differential)* to a lower value (e.g., 51V) to prevent the relay from rapidly clicking on and off as the battery voltage naturally dips under the new load. [1 , 2 ] 2. Wire the 12V Trigger Circuit [1 ] - Connect the input of your *48V to 12V Buck Converter* to the battery. - Take the positive (+) 12V output from the converter and wire it to the *Common (COM)* terminal of the monitoring relay's internal switch. - Wire the *Normally Open (NO)* terminal of the monitoring relay to the positive (+) coil terminal of your 12V relays. - Connect the negative (-) output of the buck converter directly to the negative (-) coil terminal of your 12V relays. [1 ] ------------------------------ Component Checklist - *DC Voltage Monitor:* Look for a "48V DC Overvoltage Relay" with adjustable digital thresholds. Industrial options from brands like Macromatic or Phoenix Contact offer highly reliable rail-mounted units. [ 1 ] - *Buck Converter:* Ensure the converter can handle an input up to *60V DC*, as a 48V battery bank will frequently exceed 54V during a full charge. - *Flyback Diode:* If you are chaining multiple 12V electromechanical relays together, place a 1N4007 Diode backward across the 12V relay coils to absorb inductive voltage spikes when they turn off. To help narrow down the exact parts, what is the *total current (Amps or Watts)* that your 12V relays will be switching on the load side? Also, are you looking for a *plug-and-play DIN rail module* or a *DIY electronic circuit board*? I need DIN rail mounted components. 5 sites To set up your 48V battery monitoring system on a standard *35mm DIN rail*, you will need three core modular components: the digital monitor, an isolated DC-DC power supply, and your 12V terminal relays. [1 , 2 ] Because a 48V battery bank routinely climbs past 54V during high-stage charging, all selected equipment is chosen to withstand continuous exposure to higher high-end voltages. [1 ] 🔌 Recommended DIN Rail Components [image: Voltage Monitoring Relay For Single Phase Systems With Adjustable Over Voltage And Under Voltage Protection, 35mm DIN Rail Mount, DC 48V, Indicator Li] Voltage Monitoring Relay For Single Phase Systems With Adjustable Over Voltage And Under Voltage Protection, 35mm DIN Rail Mount, DC 48V, Indicator Li $88.88 VXB.com Bearings - Features a wide input tolerance tracking overvoltage up to 68V. - Displays two dry-contact output channels (Normally Open/Normally Closed) rated for up to 6A to route your control signals safely. - Offers an adjustable time-delay function (0.1 to 15 seconds) to filter out transient voltage noise when high-surge loads kick on. [1 , 2 , 3 ] ------------------------------ [image: Original MEAN WELL DDR Series 120W DIN Rail DC-DC Converter] Original MEAN WELL DDR Series 120W DIN Rail DC-DC Converter $82.56 RS - America& more 5.0 (2) - Accepts a highly flexible direct-current input from 33.6V to 67.2V DC, which perfectly encompasses your 53.5V activation threshold. - Drops the high-voltage battery power down to a stable, isolated 12V DC output up to 10 Amps (120 Watts total) to energize multiple relay coils at once. - Clips cleanly to your standard industrial rack alongside your automation blocks. [1 ] ------------------------------ 🛠️ DIN Rail Wiring Schematic Ensure your primary battery lines are fused appropriately near the terminal before feeding into this control circuit. 1. *Sensing & Supply Input:* Connect your Battery (+) and Battery (-) lines into the top power input terminals of the *ATO DVRD Monitor* and the input terminals of the *MEAN WELL DDR Converter*simultaneously. [1 , 2 ] 2. *The 12V Loop:* Take the 12V (+) Output from your Mean Well converter and land it directly into the *Common (COM)* terminal of the ATO monitoring relay. [1 , 2 ] 3. *Trigger Output:* Wire a conductor from the *Normally Open (NO)* terminal of the ATO monitoring relay out to the Positive (+) coil inputs of your target 12V DIN rail relays. [1 ] 4. *Return Path:* Connect the 12V (-) Output from the Mean Well converter directly to the Ground / Negative (-) coil inputs of your target 12V relays. [1 ] ------------------------------ ⚙️ Setting Your Calibration Thresholds Once powered up, use the adjustment dials or digital buttons on the front face of the monitor to dial in the logic: - *Overvoltage (OV) Dial:* Turn this exactly to *53.5V*. When the battery hits this marker, the relay will click shut and send the 12V path to your slaves. [1 ] - *Hysteresis / Undervoltage Dial:* Set this parameter to roughly *5% below peak (approx. 50.8V to 51V)*. This ensures that if the newly engaged 12V load causes the battery to momentarily sag slightly under 53.5V, the relay will not violently turn off and chatter. [1 , 2 ] - *Time Delay (⚡):* Set to roughly *2 to 3 seconds*. This stops surface charge fluctuations or solar charger ripples from causing false-trips. [1 ] Would you like some recommendations for *slim, high-density 12V DIN rail terminal relays* to finish off the load side, or do you already have those on hand? *David Quattro* President On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 6:36 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello, > > The Morningstar relay driver is a great device. It can measure 48VDC > nominal and operate relays based on the measured voltage. The problem is > that, if it is measuring 48VDC nominal, it outputs the same. > > Is there anything besides a charge controller that can measure 48 VDC > nominal and put out a small 12VDC current? The 12VDC output of an Outback > or Midnite charge control is perfect. > > If a relay driver, with several channels, could do this, it would be a > very useful device. Does anything like this exist? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > > *Drake Chamberlin* > > *Athens Electric LLC* > > *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 11:52:21 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 09:52:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Jul 21 12:06:04 2026 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 09:06:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27c8ee1af6cda70a176b98485b76e40c@mail.gmail.com> https://controlbyweb.com/ William Miller Miller Solar www.millersolar.com CA License C-10 77398 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2026 6:35 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers Hello, The Morningstar relay driver is a great device. It can measure 48VDC nominal and operate relays based on the measured voltage. The problem is that, if it is measuring 48VDC nominal, it outputs the same. Is there anything besides a charge controller that can measure 48 VDC nominal and put out a small 12VDC current? The 12VDC output of an Outback or Midnite charge control is perfect. If a relay driver, with several channels, could do this, it would be a very useful device. Does anything like this exist? Thanks, Drake *Drake Chamberlin* *Athens Electric LLC* *Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810* *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Tue Jul 21 21:28:44 2026 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 21:28:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4787f6fcad99773a8cdd0fded2cb6eda@redwoodalliance.org> We could put a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply on the output of each channel of the Morningstar relay driver. Are there physically small and inexpensive 48VDC to 12VDC power supplies available? Thanks, Drake On 2026-07-21 11:52, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > I haven't found what you're looking for. But lots of 48vdc voltage > controlers with relay and then I'd get a 48-12v power supply for > your 12v loads. > > Not so elegant but functional > Jay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 21:46:20 2026 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 19:46:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers In-Reply-To: <4787f6fcad99773a8cdd0fded2cb6eda@redwoodalliance.org> References: <4787f6fcad99773a8cdd0fded2cb6eda@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <01BF656E-B6DE-4B53-91AD-DC665B6E6BBA@gmail.com> I’ve seen low amperage ones for under $20. Amazon. > On Jul 21, 2026, at 7:31 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > We could put a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply on the output of each channel of the Morningstar relay driver. Are there physically small and inexpensive 48VDC to 12VDC power supplies available? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > >> On 2026-07-21 11:52, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >> I haven’t found what you’re looking for. But lots of 48vdc voltage >> controlers with relay and then I’d get a 48-12v power supply for >> your 12v loads. >> >> Not so elegant but functional >> Jay >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jul 22 12:12:48 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 12:12:48 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Kudos to Sol-Max Message-ID: Just a quick shout out to Sol-Max tech support who proactively alerted me to a Powerflo16 battery issue, anticipated and identified the problem, pushed a remote software update with minimal on-site requirements from me, and resolved the issue. If you get a P3 cell fault error, apparently there is a software fix for it. The BMS Bluetooth app looks fine for all of the battery cells, but the BMS reports a cell error. It only required my turning off battery breakers at the inverters. No other hoops to jump through. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich at solartechvt.com Wed Jul 22 12:30:26 2026 From: rich at solartechvt.com (Richard Nicol) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 12:30:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Kudos to Sol-Max In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great to hear! Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 22, 2026, at 12:14 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Just a quick shout out to Sol-Max tech support who proactively alerted me to a Powerflo16 battery issue, anticipated and identified the problem, pushed a remote software update with minimal on-site requirements from me, and resolved the issue. > > If you get a P3 cell fault error, apparently there is a software fix for it. The BMS Bluetooth app looks fine for all of the battery cells, but the BMS reports a cell error. > > It only required my turning off battery breakers at the inverters. No other hoops to jump through. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From kent at coveoregon.com Wed Jul 22 21:51:40 2026 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2026 18:51:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Relay Drivers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Drake, The Morningstar relay driver doesn't output voltage; it can sink current or measure voltage. Normally the outputs are wired to the same source that powers the relay driver - it is the power source that is putting out voltage. It shouldn't be a problem to run a 12-volt relay from a separate 12-volt source (or 12 volts derived from the 48-volt source) as long as the ground of the separate source is common with the relay driver ground. Simply add a 48V to 12V converter to the project and you can operate one to four 12-volt relays, or a mix with some being 12 and others being 48 volts. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 7/21/2026 6:35 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hello, > The Morningstar relay driver is a great device. It can measure 48VDC > nominal and operate relays based on the measured voltage. The problem > is that, if it is measuring 48VDC nominal, it outputs the same. > Is there anything besides a charge controller that can measure 48 VDC > nominal and put out a small 12VDC current? The 12VDC output of an > Outback or Midnite charge control is perfect. > If a relay driver, with several channels, could do this, it would be a > very useful device. Does anything like this exist? > Thanks, > Drake > > /Drake Chamberlin/ > > /Athens Electric LLC/ > > /Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/ > > /NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/ > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Jul 23 21:16:08 2026 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2026 21:16:08 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GridBOSS smart load minimum breaker Message-ID: Hi All, I will soon be installing one of these in a detached shed, where it would be useful to have a light installed. There will be no panel in there other than the GridBOSS, inverters and batteries. The manual says that the smallest breaker size that is supported is a 30a breaker. See table below. I emailed their tech support to ask if there would be a problem with a 20a breaker. They gave a very basic answer pointing me back to this same table, and then recommended to add a subpanel, and then run a 20A circuit from there. That seems a bit overkill for a light. I cannot see why if a 30A breaker is allowed, a 20A breaker would not be allowed. It is just a simple Eaton breaker. Am I missing something here? Cheers, Dave [image: image (4).png] -- Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 270-0370 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image (4).png Type: image/png Size: 76316 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Jul 24 05:47:10 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2026 05:47:10 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GridBOSS smart load minimum breaker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My read: EG4 likely omitted 15A and 20A because these are contemplated as high-current smart load or AC-coupled inverter ports, not branch circuit protection for small loads. The GridBOSS is sized for things like EV chargers, HVAC, water heaters – not standard household receptables and lighting. They expect those to be regular backup loads. The biggest example I have to support the need to shed a 20A load is a pool pump. Anyway, when I use a GridBOSS for an off-grid installation, I almost always use Port 4 for a 15A multiwire branch circuit to support a convenience outlet and lighting for the area on one leg and a generator battery charging circuit on the other leg. I see no issue with it. One thing that supports my theory that the breaker ratings are the maximum supported per port is that the ratings in the table overlap. Looking at the table, on line 1, port 1 supports 90-125A breakers, then the table goes on to support 30-80A breakers for port 1. The whole tables is a confusing mess. And what about 35A breakers? 45A? These are common for some mini-split units. They are not in the table, but surely would not be a problem. EG4 needs to revamp this table for clarity. P.S. I have started using Port 1 as the main load port for smaller off-grid jobs without even using the 200A backup load port. I just set port 1 to operate 24 hours a day. This way, you don't need additional overcurrent protection from an external main breaker. The downside is that the manual bypass becomes non-functional, but otherwise it has worked out well for me. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 9:24 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I will soon be installing one of these in a detached shed, where it would > be useful to have a light installed. There will be no panel in there other > than the GridBOSS, inverters and batteries. The manual says that the > smallest breaker size that is supported is a 30a breaker. See table below. > > I emailed their tech support to ask if there would be a problem with a 20a > breaker. They gave a very basic answer pointing me back to this same table, > and then recommended to add a subpanel, and then run a 20A circuit from > there. That seems a bit overkill for a light. I cannot see why if a 30A > breaker is allowed, a 20A breaker would not be allowed. It is just a simple > Eaton breaker. Am I missing something here? > > Cheers, > Dave > > [image: image (4).png] > > -- > > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 270-0370 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image (4).png Type: image/png Size: 76316 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Fri Jul 24 12:57:29 2026 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2026 12:57:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GridBOSS smart load minimum breaker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23f46195-a535-45c4-adc6-a3047cb9da9c@entech-engineering.com> Would it make sense just to upsize the conductor for this short run? On 7/24/2026 5:47 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > My read: EG4 likely omitted 15A and 20A because these are > contemplated as high-current smart load or AC-coupled inverter ports, > not branch circuit protection for small loads. The GridBOSS is sized > for things like EV chargers, HVAC, water heaters – not standard > household receptables and lighting. They expect those to be regular > backup loads.The biggest example I have to support the need to shed a > 20A load is a pool pump. > > Anyway, when I use a GridBOSS for an off-grid installation, I almost > always use Port 4 for a 15A multiwire branch circuit to support a > convenience outlet and lighting for the area on one leg and a > generator battery charging circuit on the other leg. I see no issue > with it. > > One thing that supports my theory that the breaker ratings are the > maximum supported per port is that the ratings in the table overlap. > Looking at the table, on line 1, port 1 supports 90-125A breakers, > then the table goes on to support 30-80A breakers for port 1. The > whole tables is a confusing mess. And what about 35A breakers? 45A? > These are common for some mini-split units. They are not in the table, > but surely would not be a problem. > > EG4 needs to revamp this table for clarity. > > P.S. I have started using Port 1 as the main load port for smaller > off-grid jobs without even using the 200A backup load port. I just set > port 1 to operate 24 hours a day. This way, you don't need additional > overcurrent protection from an external main breaker. The downside is > that the manual bypass becomes non-functional, but otherwise it has > worked out well for me. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 9:24 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi All, > > I will soon be installing one of these in a detached shed, where > it would be useful to have a light installed. There will be no > panel in there other than the GridBOSS, inverters and batteries. > The manual says that the smallest breaker size that is supported > is a 30a breaker. See table below. > > I emailed their tech support to ask if there would be a problem > with a 20a breaker. They gave a very basic answer pointing me back > to this same table, and then recommended to add a subpanel, and > then run a 20A circuit from there. That seems a bit overkill for a > light. I cannot see why if a 30A breaker is allowed, a 20A breaker > would not be allowed. It is just a simple Eaton breaker. Am I > missing something here? > > Cheers, > Dave > > image (4).png > > -- > > > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 270-0370 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 (401) 447-5773 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image (4).png Type: image/png Size: 76316 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Jul 24 16:22:15 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2026 16:22:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GridBOSS smart load minimum breaker In-Reply-To: <23f46195-a535-45c4-adc6-a3047cb9da9c@entech-engineering.com> References: <23f46195-a535-45c4-adc6-a3047cb9da9c@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: We don't have #10/2 Romex on the trucks usually. It's most convenient to run #14 or #12 to a light fixture usually (if not running it in conduit). And some fixtures are not very friendly with a larger wire or cables. I can't think of any logical reason that a lower rated breaker would be a problem. I truly think they just didn't think it through very well when writing the documentation. The lack of 25, 35, and 45A breakers is a prime example. Surely these are okay, right? Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 1:00 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Would it make sense just to upsize the conductor for this short run? > On 7/24/2026 5:47 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > My read: EG4 likely omitted 15A and 20A because these are contemplated as > high-current smart load or AC-coupled inverter ports, not branch circuit > protection for small loads. The GridBOSS is sized for things like EV > chargers, HVAC, water heaters – not standard household receptables and > lighting. They expect those to be regular backup loads. The biggest > example I have to support the need to shed a 20A load is a pool pump. > > Anyway, when I use a GridBOSS for an off-grid installation, I almost > always use Port 4 for a 15A multiwire branch circuit to support a > convenience outlet and lighting for the area on one leg and a generator > battery charging circuit on the other leg. I see no issue with it. > > One thing that supports my theory that the breaker ratings are the maximum > supported per port is that the ratings in the table overlap. Looking at > the table, on line 1, port 1 supports 90-125A breakers, then the table > goes on to support 30-80A breakers for port 1. The whole tables is a > confusing mess. And what about 35A breakers? 45A? These are common for some > mini-split units. They are not in the table, but surely would not be a > problem. > > EG4 needs to revamp this table for clarity. > > P.S. I have started using Port 1 as the main load port for smaller > off-grid jobs without even using the 200A backup load port. I just set port > 1 to operate 24 hours a day. This way, you don't need additional > overcurrent protection from an external main breaker. The downside is that > the manual bypass becomes non-functional, but otherwise it has worked out > well for me. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 9:24 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I will soon be installing one of these in a detached shed, where it would >> be useful to have a light installed. There will be no panel in there other >> than the GridBOSS, inverters and batteries. The manual says that the >> smallest breaker size that is supported is a 30a breaker. See table below. >> >> I emailed their tech support to ask if there would be a problem with a >> 20a breaker. They gave a very basic answer pointing me back to this same >> table, and then recommended to add a subpanel, and then run a 20A circuit >> from there. That seems a bit overkill for a light. I cannot see why if a >> 30A breaker is allowed, a 20A breaker would not be allowed. It is just a >> simple Eaton breaker. Am I missing something here? >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> [image: image (4).png] >> >> -- >> >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 270-0370 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel, PE > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > (401) 447-5773 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image (4).png Type: image/png Size: 76316 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Jul 24 16:47:57 2026 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2026 16:47:57 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GridBOSS smart load minimum breaker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It just hit me - this must be a carryover from their older version of the GridBOSS that did not accept standard Eaton BR circuit breakers. They sold the original GridBOSS v1 with a breaker kit with B3S1 breakers manufactured by BSB Electric. You had to buy the breakers from EG4, and they did not offer 15A or 20A breakers for these circuits. Intiially they shipped the breakers with the GridBOSS. I remember thinking how wasteful it was for them to send each unit with a bunch of breakers that we didn't use. And then they suddenly started selling the GridBOSS without the breaker kits, and I was derailed on a job, not realizing they had made that change. Here is the excerpt from that manual: [image: Image 2427.jpg] Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 4:33 PM Jay wrote: > Is it possible they have the UL listing with those specific breakers? > > It’s just a breaker. As long as it’s physically compatible in mounting > electrically it’s fine. > > Jay > > On Jul 24, 2026, at 2:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > We don't have #10/2 Romex on the trucks usually. It's most convenient to > run #14 or #12 to a light fixture usually (if not running it in conduit). > And some fixtures are not very friendly with a larger wire or cables. > > I can't think of any logical reason that a lower rated breaker would be a > problem. I truly think they just didn't think it through very well when > writing the documentation. The lack of 25, 35, and 45A breakers is a prime > example. Surely these are okay, right? > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 1:00 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Would it make sense just to upsize the conductor for this short run? >> On 7/24/2026 5:47 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> My read: EG4 likely omitted 15A and 20A because these are contemplated as >> high-current smart load or AC-coupled inverter ports, not branch circuit >> protection for small loads. The GridBOSS is sized for things like EV >> chargers, HVAC, water heaters – not standard household receptables and >> lighting. They expect those to be regular backup loads. The biggest >> example I have to support the need to shed a 20A load is a pool pump. >> >> Anyway, when I use a GridBOSS for an off-grid installation, I almost >> always use Port 4 for a 15A multiwire branch circuit to support a >> convenience outlet and lighting for the area on one leg and a generator >> battery charging circuit on the other leg. I see no issue with it. >> >> One thing that supports my theory that the breaker ratings are the >> maximum supported per port is that the ratings in the table overlap. >> Looking at the table, on line 1, port 1 supports 90-125A breakers, then >> the table goes on to support 30-80A breakers for port 1. The whole tables >> is a confusing mess. And what about 35A breakers? 45A? These are common for >> some mini-split units. They are not in the table, but surely would not be a >> problem. >> >> EG4 needs to revamp this table for clarity. >> >> P.S. I have started using Port 1 as the main load port for smaller >> off-grid jobs without even using the 200A backup load port. I just set port >> 1 to operate 24 hours a day. This way, you don't need additional >> overcurrent protection from an external main breaker. The downside is that >> the manual bypass becomes non-functional, but otherwise it has worked out >> well for me. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 9:24 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I will soon be installing one of these in a detached shed, where it >>> would be useful to have a light installed. There will be no panel in there >>> other than the GridBOSS, inverters and batteries. The manual says that the >>> smallest breaker size that is supported is a 30a breaker. See table below. >>> >>> I emailed their tech support to ask if there would be a problem with a >>> 20a breaker. They gave a very basic answer pointing me back to this same >>> table, and then recommended to add a subpanel, and then run a 20A circuit >>> from there. That seems a bit overkill for a light. I cannot see why if a >>> 30A breaker is allowed, a 20A breaker would not be allowed. It is just a >>> simple Eaton breaker. Am I missing something here? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >>> Owner | Sungineer Solar >>> p: he | him | his >>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> w: www.sungineersolar.com >>> c: (607) 270-0370 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- >> Christopher Warfel, PE >> ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >> (401) 447-5773 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image 2427.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 182344 bytes Desc: not available URL: