From benn at skyfireenergy.com Mon Jan 3 10:22:34 2022 From: benn at skyfireenergy.com (Benn Kilburn) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:22:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ballasted ground mounts residential scale In-Reply-To: <938ec4dd-b053-c4e8-7c79-cf82d97fc001@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <938ec4dd-b053-c4e8-7c79-cf82d97fc001@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: I’ve installed a few of these Nuance Osprey racks..~85kw, ~50kw On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 2:31 PM Jeff Clearwater < jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > Wow cool product Nick! Anyone have actual experience? > > I've been thinking that the concrete beam systems (above grade > pre-engineered rectangular blocks like solarmounts.com) really could be > used for any ground mount rack system (Unirac, IronRidge, SnapNRack, > SolarMounts, ReadyRack, etc.) in other words many ground mount systems > could be bolted to an above grade concrete beam - would just need a sign > off on uplift by an engineer at the worst or just apply existing > engineering models. Many manufacturers already off that option and > probably provide the engineering. > > This might expand small system options for those manufacturers only > offering ballast systems to large system buyers. > > Which makes me think that If I tried a Nuance system and the soil didn't > work out for the cable pull you could then just bolt them down to a > concrete beam system as a plan b. > > Thoughts? Experience anyone? > > best, > > jc > > > > Nick A Lucchese > December 30, 2021 at 11:38 AM > > Greetings Mac, > > I recently have been investigating the use of Nuance’s Osprey > product solution. Doesn’t necessarily fall > under the ballasted category and since you’re trying to avoid the heat pump > lines it may not fit your strategy either but I really like the option of > getting away from pouring concrete. The anchors are set 40-65” deep. For > smaller projects it seems like the cost may be somewhat prohibitive due to > shipping logistics but appears like they price out affordably once you > purchase a bit of specialized equipment and get around the freight costs. > > That ReadyRack geo-ballast looks quite cool too Jeff, thanks for the link > on that. > > Best of luck, Nick > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Mac Lewis > December 28, 2021 at 3:31 PM > Hello Wrenches, > > Can anyone recommend a ballasted ground mount solution that is offered on > a residential scale? Below 10kW typically. > > Thanks in advance! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benn at skyfireenergy.com Mon Jan 3 10:52:45 2022 From: benn at skyfireenergy.com (Benn Kilburn) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:52:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ballasted ground mounts residential scale In-Reply-To: References: <938ec4dd-b053-c4e8-7c79-cf82d97fc001@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: Sorry, I sent that last email too soon by accident…. Yes, I’ve installed a few of these Nuance Osprey racks…. With much less than satisfactory experiences. The rack tables themselves go together fairly well, however the cable anchor system, while seemingly slick, left much to be desired in my experiences. Some anchors would not come close to the required load test pull-out values, requiring extra anchors to be needed, which is fine, until all the anchor holes have been used. The anchors don’t “securely” hold the rack down, meaning it leaves a bit of room for movement, so under high wind, and over time it can wiggle and loosen the anchors leaving more and more room for movement each time. That said, they do recommend rechecking the anchors after some time, but this can be an issue for some sites. I have gone back to check a site and a rack (with other racks on either side) had shifted forward about 25cm, seemingly due to high wind. It drove the front anchor base plates into the ground and caused some damage to the rack structure which had a design flaw that I believe was corrected. They recommend re checking the pull-out load testing of the anchors after a year or so but I have yet to be given a solution for rechecking the front anchors without removing modules, which are in the way of doing the pull out test. It’s been over a year and a half since the last one I worked on so it’s not so fresh in my mind but I do know there were several other issues with the rack/rail assembly and mounting modules, issues with the mod mud/end clamps. I’m not completely against giving it another try, but not without reviewing the notes and photos from the last ones and confirming the issues have been addressed. Regards, Benn On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 8:22 AM Benn Kilburn wrote: > I’ve installed a few of these Nuance Osprey racks..~85kw, ~50kw > > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 2:31 PM Jeff Clearwater < > jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > >> Wow cool product Nick! Anyone have actual experience? >> >> I've been thinking that the concrete beam systems (above grade >> pre-engineered rectangular blocks like solarmounts.com) really could be >> used for any ground mount rack system (Unirac, IronRidge, SnapNRack, >> SolarMounts, ReadyRack, etc.) in other words many ground mount systems >> could be bolted to an above grade concrete beam - would just need a sign >> off on uplift by an engineer at the worst or just apply existing >> engineering models. Many manufacturers already off that option and >> probably provide the engineering. >> >> This might expand small system options for those manufacturers only >> offering ballast systems to large system buyers. >> >> Which makes me think that If I tried a Nuance system and the soil didn't >> work out for the cable pull you could then just bolt them down to a >> concrete beam system as a plan b. >> >> Thoughts? Experience anyone? >> >> best, >> >> jc >> >> >> >> Nick A Lucchese >> December 30, 2021 at 11:38 AM >> >> Greetings Mac, >> >> I recently have been investigating the use of Nuance’s Osprey >> product solution. Doesn’t necessarily fall >> under the ballasted category and since you’re trying to avoid the heat pump >> lines it may not fit your strategy either but I really like the option of >> getting away from pouring concrete. The anchors are set 40-65” deep. For >> smaller projects it seems like the cost may be somewhat prohibitive due to >> shipping logistics but appears like they price out affordably once you >> purchase a bit of specialized equipment and get around the freight costs. >> >> That ReadyRack geo-ballast looks quite cool too Jeff, thanks for the link >> on that. >> >> Best of luck, Nick >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Mac Lewis >> December 28, 2021 at 3:31 PM >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> Can anyone recommend a ballasted ground mount solution that is offered on >> a residential scale? Below 10kW typically. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Benn Kilburn > SkyFire Energy > 780-906-7807 > -- Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Jan 3 16:49:27 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 16:49:27 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge inverter blowing fuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, I thought I would follow up to report that I swapped out the old GE 60A switch with a SQD one, and there have been no blown fuses since! Cheers, Dave On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 4:50 PM Jerry Shafer wrote: > looks like one more failure, once they start there is no going back as the > fuse retainer loses its spring > > On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 1:38 PM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> Ugh - no joke - we just found another one this morning with a blown fuse. >> Pic attached. It's really a nightmare. >> >> Check out how discolored the top of the left fuse is (again). Always the >> same fault... >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 8:43 PM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> See attached image. Notice the discoloration on the top of the left >>> fuse. It's always the same thing, same place. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021, 8:30 PM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I should also mention that it has nothing to do with ambient heat. This >>>> has occured in all seasons and with disconnects in direct sunlight on a >>>> south wall and disconnects in air conditioned garages. >>>> >>>> It's just a garbage product. We switched to Square D for 60A D222NRB >>>> fusible disconnects and are also using their 100A circuit breaker >>>> enclosures which are cost effective. The D223NRB is also a good fusible >>>> disconnect, but pricey. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021, 8:24 PM Jason Szumlanski < >>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's the disconnect. We had dozens of this subpar disconnect design >>>>> fail on Enphase systems. The 2 Pole has the same issue. >>>>> >>>>> GE gave us some nonsense answer that it's General Duty and not >>>>> designed for continuous high power. Even 40A combined Enphase systems will >>>>> blow a 60A fuse. >>>>> >>>>> What you will find is the fuse will blow on one side and then >>>>> replacements will blow at decreasing intervals until it blows daily. Our >>>>> experience is the left side (of the 2-pole) is far more problematic for >>>>> some odd reason. It's not the fuse brand either. >>>>> >>>>> I believe the design fault is how the blades only hit a single contact >>>>> on one side when they close. The Square D alternative has the blade >>>>> slipping between two contacts. >>>>> >>>>> Sadly we have had to replace so many of these and most are supply side >>>>> interconnections, which make it tricky and expensive. >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021, 4:26 PM Dave Tedeyan >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am servicing a system that keeps blowing fuses on the AC side, >>>>>> although it >>>>>> appears that everything is sized correctly. It is a SolarEdge >>>>>> SE11400A-US inverter. >>>>>> Max continuous output current is 47.5A x 1.25 = 59.4A. There is a GE >>>>>> TG3222R >>>>>> 60A AC disconnect, and it is wired up with #6 THHN wire. The >>>>>> terminals were tight >>>>>> and there was no evidence of arcing or burning in the past. This is >>>>>> indoors, and not >>>>>> exposed to sunlight. No extra conductors are in the conduit. >>>>>> >>>>>> But they say that they need to replace a fuse roughly once per month. >>>>>> Has anyone >>>>>> seen this before? Could there be some kind of fault in the inverter >>>>>> itself that >>>>>> occasionally induces extra current? Is there any way to tweak the >>>>>> settings so that it >>>>>> actually produces a bit more than 11.4kw? I appreciate your thoughts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> [image: Logo] >>>>>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >>>>>> Owner | Sungineer Solar >>>>>> p: he | him | his >>>>>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>>>>> w: www.sungineersolar.com >>>>>> c: (607) 288-2898 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>>> the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Jan 3 17:23:39 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 17:23:39 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge inverter blowing fuses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good feedback. I'll note that we haven't seen any issues with the Eaton 60A, but we decided to go with Square D because it is robust and cost effective. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Mon, Jan 3, 2022, 4:49 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > I thought I would follow up to report that I swapped out the old GE 60A > switch with a SQD one, and there have been no blown fuses since! > Cheers, > Dave > > On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 4:50 PM Jerry Shafer > wrote: > >> looks like one more failure, once they start there is no going back as >> the fuse retainer loses its spring >> >> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 1:38 PM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> Ugh - no joke - we just found another one this morning with a blown >>> fuse. Pic attached. It's really a nightmare. >>> >>> Check out how discolored the top of the left fuse is (again). Always the >>> same fault... >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 8:43 PM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> See attached image. Notice the discoloration on the top of the left >>>> fuse. It's always the same thing, same place. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021, 8:30 PM Jason Szumlanski < >>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I should also mention that it has nothing to do with ambient heat. >>>>> This has occured in all seasons and with disconnects in direct sunlight on >>>>> a south wall and disconnects in air conditioned garages. >>>>> >>>>> It's just a garbage product. We switched to Square D for 60A D222NRB >>>>> fusible disconnects and are also using their 100A circuit breaker >>>>> enclosures which are cost effective. The D223NRB is also a good fusible >>>>> disconnect, but pricey. >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021, 8:24 PM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It's the disconnect. We had dozens of this subpar disconnect design >>>>>> fail on Enphase systems. The 2 Pole has the same issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> GE gave us some nonsense answer that it's General Duty and not >>>>>> designed for continuous high power. Even 40A combined Enphase systems will >>>>>> blow a 60A fuse. >>>>>> >>>>>> What you will find is the fuse will blow on one side and then >>>>>> replacements will blow at decreasing intervals until it blows daily. Our >>>>>> experience is the left side (of the 2-pole) is far more problematic for >>>>>> some odd reason. It's not the fuse brand either. >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe the design fault is how the blades only hit a single >>>>>> contact on one side when they close. The Square D alternative has the blade >>>>>> slipping between two contacts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sadly we have had to replace so many of these and most are supply >>>>>> side interconnections, which make it tricky and expensive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021, 4:26 PM Dave Tedeyan >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am servicing a system that keeps blowing fuses on the AC side, >>>>>>> although it >>>>>>> appears that everything is sized correctly. It is a SolarEdge >>>>>>> SE11400A-US inverter. >>>>>>> Max continuous output current is 47.5A x 1.25 = 59.4A. There is a >>>>>>> GE TG3222R >>>>>>> 60A AC disconnect, and it is wired up with #6 THHN wire. The >>>>>>> terminals were tight >>>>>>> and there was no evidence of arcing or burning in the past. This is >>>>>>> indoors, and not >>>>>>> exposed to sunlight. No extra conductors are in the conduit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But they say that they need to replace a fuse roughly once per >>>>>>> month. Has anyone >>>>>>> seen this before? Could there be some kind of fault in the inverter >>>>>>> itself that >>>>>>> occasionally induces extra current? Is there any way to tweak the >>>>>>> settings so that it >>>>>>> actually produces a bit more than 11.4kw? I appreciate your >>>>>>> thoughts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> [image: Logo] >>>>>>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >>>>>>> Owner | Sungineer Solar >>>>>>> p: he | him | his >>>>>>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>>>>>> w: www.sungineersolar.com >>>>>>> c: (607) 288-2898 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>>>>> try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Mon Jan 3 17:57:39 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 14:57:39 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ballasted ground mounts residential scale In-Reply-To: References: <938ec4dd-b053-c4e8-7c79-cf82d97fc001@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: That's really valuable real world experience Benn - Thank you! I did intuitively notice in watching the assembly videos that that after the initial tensioning of the anchor cable that there was only minimal attention (and hardware) devoted to keeping that cable under tension. Could be as simple as a ratcheting device to periodically tighten up after install perhaps?  Doesn't seem like that would be too hard to retrofit. I do see you are in the plains up there in Canada - so wondering perhaps the winds are much higher - still it shouldn't move a cm after install! Thanks again - very valuable feedback.  Sorry you had hassles! Best, Jeff > Benn Kilburn > January 3, 2022 at 7:52 AM > Sorry, I sent that last email too soon by accident…. > > Yes, I’ve installed a few of these Nuance Osprey racks…. With much > less than satisfactory experiences. > > The rack tables themselves go together fairly well, however the cable > anchor system, while seemingly slick, left much to be desired in my > experiences. > Some anchors would not come close to the required load test pull-out > values, requiring extra anchors to be needed, which is fine, until all > the anchor holes have been used. The anchors don’t “securely” hold the > rack down, meaning it leaves a bit of room for movement, so under high > wind, and over time it can wiggle and loosen the anchors leaving more > and more room for movement each time. That said, they do recommend > rechecking the anchors after some time, but this can be an issue for > some sites. > I have gone back to check a site and a rack (with other racks on > either side) had shifted forward about 25cm, seemingly due to high > wind. It drove the front anchor base plates into the ground and caused > some damage to the rack structure which had a design flaw that I > believe was corrected. > > They recommend re checking the pull-out load testing of the anchors > after a year or so but I have yet to be given a solution for > rechecking the front anchors without removing modules, which are in > the way of doing the pull out test. > > It’s been over a year and a half since the last one I worked on so > it’s not so fresh in my mind but I do know there were several other > issues with the rack/rail assembly and mounting modules, issues with > the mod mud/end clamps. > > I’m not completely against giving it another try, but not without > reviewing the notes and photos from the last ones and confirming the > issues have been addressed. > > Regards, > Benn > > > -- > Benn Kilburn > SkyFire Energy > 780-906-7807 > Benn Kilburn > January 3, 2022 at 7:22 AM > I’ve installed a few of these Nuance Osprey racks..~85kw, ~50kw > > > > -- > Benn Kilburn > SkyFire Energy > 780-906-7807 > Jeff Clearwater > December 30, 2021 at 1:30 PM > Wow cool product Nick!  Anyone have actual experience? > > I've been thinking that the concrete beam systems (above grade > pre-engineered rectangular blocks like solarmounts.com) really could > be used for any ground mount rack system (Unirac, IronRidge, > SnapNRack, SolarMounts, ReadyRack, etc.)  in other words many ground > mount systems could be bolted to an above grade concrete beam - would > just need a sign off on uplift by an engineer at the worst or just > apply existing engineering models.  Many manufacturers already off > that option and probably provide the engineering. > > This might expand small system options for those manufacturers only > offering ballast systems to large system buyers. > > Which makes me think that If I tried a Nuance system and the soil > didn't work out for the cable pull you could then just bolt them down > to a concrete beam system as a plan b. > > Thoughts?  Experience anyone? > > best, > > jc > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > December 30, 2021 at 1:01 PM > Wow cool product Nick!  Anyone have actual experience? > > I've been thinking that the concrete beam systems (above grade > pre-engineered rectangular blocks like solarmounts.com) really could > be used for any ground mount rack system (Unirac, IronRidge, > SnapNRack, SolarMounts, ReadyRack, etc.)  in other words many ground > mount systems could be bolted to an above grade concrete beam - would > just need a sign off on uplift by an engineer at the worst or just > apply existing engineering models.  Many manufacturers already off > that option and probably provide the engineering. > > This might expand small system options for those manufacturers only > offering ballast systems to large system buyers. > > Which makes me think that If I tried a Nuance system and the soil > didn't work out for the cable pull you could then just bolt them down > to a concrete beam system as a plan b. > > Thoughts?  Experience anyone? > > best, > > jc > > > > > Nick A Lucchese > December 30, 2021 at 11:38 AM > Greetings Mac, > > I recently have been investigating the use of Nuance’s Osprey >  product solution. Doesn’t necessarily fall > under the ballasted category and since you’re trying to avoid the heat > pump lines it may not fit your strategy either but I really like the > option of getting away from pouring concrete. The anchors are set > 40-65” deep. For smaller projects it seems like the cost may be > somewhat prohibitive due to shipping logistics but appears like they > price out affordably once you purchase a bit of specialized equipment > and get around the freight costs. > > That ReadyRack geo-ballast looks quite cool too Jeff, thanks for the > link on that. > > Best of luck, Nick > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Mac Lewis > December 28, 2021 at 3:31 PM > Hello Wrenches, > > Can anyone recommend a ballasted ground mount solution that is offered > on a residential scale? Below 10kW typically. > > Thanks in advance! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > * > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tom at solar-biz.com Tue Jan 4 11:39:59 2022 From: Tom at solar-biz.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 16:39:59 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fair price for an obsolete component In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Allan I usually look at the Good Old Trace stuff as 2/3 of the old new price. I have so many folks using the Trace SW that they bought in the mid 1990s and still going strong the price has remained steady all these years later. Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Flexport CEO Ryan Petersen told CNBC that the global shipping crisis is, “really going to be very hard to resolve.” Most eCommerce leaders predict more serious global supply chain issues in the coming years. The pandemic has fuelled a never ending cycle of shortages. "The pressures on global supply chains have not eased, and we do not expect them to any time soon," eCommerce businesses are taking the hit, and badly. Said Bob Biesterfeld, CEO of C.H. Robinson, one of the world's largest logistics firms. Many small businesses have shut down operations completely due to cancelled orders caused by shipping and supply shortages. [cid:image001.png at 01D8015F.9F8BCD90] tom at solar-biz.com MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 International: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 www.thesolarbiz.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Sindelar Solar Sent: Friday, December 10, 2021 2:39 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fair price for an obsolete component What would be a fair and equitable price to ask for a good used Trace SW Remote display unit with the cable included, please? Obviously there will likely be a range of opinions. I'd simply like to get a sense of the range among us Wrenches. Thank you, Allan -- Allan Sindelar allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 14016 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Jan 5 09:44:30 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:44:30 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters Message-ID: Hi All, I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely these different components play together. Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 10:40:09 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:40:09 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I'd also be interested to hear people's general experience with the Namaka interface, and how it behaves with an XW Pro. I have a couple of BI 2.0 installations, and generally like them, but they seem to be a the pricier end of LiFePO4 batteries, and it sounds like there are lots of others out there that are high quality and may be somewhat more affordable, specifically Discover AES and Fortress. I'd be very interested to hear about experience with any LiFePO4 batteries, and also specifically in off-grid situations. I don't have enough clients that are ready to spring for the expense to be able to build up my own experience with the rapidly expanding options, and I'd rather not spend the money necessary to replace a set of Lithium batteries that don't meet expectations... Thanks, Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:45 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > Hi All, > > I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP storage > systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. I have > no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the Radian. I'm > wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can > directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be > interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely > these different components play together. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 11:36:49 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 09:36:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kirk, Yes, Sol-Ark and Blue Ion communicate fine through the Namaka Gateway. You do need to make sure that the firmware is up to date on the Sol-Ark because there are older versions out there that don't work. Purchase their auto-updater dongle if you aren't going to have internet on the site and preload the new firmware on the dongle. I also have quite a few Radians out there working fine with the Blue Ion just using voltage and programming the Flexnet per Blue Ion. The SOC on the flexnet seems to track really well if the batteries are filling up often. My only serious gripe with Sol-Ark is generator interaction. It is very rigid and glitchy compared to Outback and strange to program. This will get better though. I do think its easy to Good Luck On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 7:45 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > Hi All, > > I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP storage > systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. I have > no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the Radian. I'm > wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can > directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be > interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely > these different components play together. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Wed Jan 5 11:52:12 2022 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 11:52:12 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Correct me if I'm wrong but my research seems to lean towards the prefered method to implement Lithium batteries with an inverter system is via closed loop communication, over open loop? Currently looking into installing a BI and Fortress system of similar size side by side here at our Design and Training center to see how they perform with a lot of data collection equipment. Christopher On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 11:37 AM Mac Lewis wrote: > Hi Kirk, > > Yes, Sol-Ark and Blue Ion communicate fine through the Namaka Gateway. > You do need to make sure that the firmware is up to date on the Sol-Ark > because there are older versions out there that don't work. Purchase their > auto-updater dongle if you aren't going to have internet on the site and > preload the new firmware on the dongle. > > I also have quite a few Radians out there working fine with the Blue Ion > just using voltage and programming the Flexnet per Blue Ion. The SOC on > the flexnet seems to track really well if the batteries are filling up > often. > > My only serious gripe with Sol-Ark is generator interaction. It is very > rigid and glitchy compared to Outback and strange to program. This will > get better though. I do think its easy to > > Good Luck > > > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 7:45 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP >> storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. >> I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the >> Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can >> directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be >> interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely >> these different components play together. Thanks. >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rebekah.hren at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 12:00:52 2022 From: rebekah.hren at gmail.com (Rebekah Hren) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:00:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Aurora solar design software? Message-ID: Hi all, Are there any other wrenches out there using aurorasolar.com? I have been using it about a year and have found it awesome. Awesome that is until the newest update came out and basically destroyed the utility for me. I'm wondering if I am over-reacting and I'll get used to the new update or if anyone else is running into this problem? For example, I can no longer export monthly or hourly production values from the tool, which to me is a mind-boggling choice for a PV performance modeling tool software design team to make. If any of you have feedback, I will be happy to pass it on to Aurora along with my extreme disappointment. In the meantime I may need to be on the hunt for another tool. I do really like the free Solaredge design tool, but if course it is manufacturer specific! Cheers, Rebekah Tel: 336.266.8800 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 12:07:17 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 12:07:17 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Aurora solar design software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rebekah, I have never used it, although I am about to go through a demo on it this week to see if it makes sense for us to use in rural VT. I will ask about the export functionality . Does anyone have any feedback about how realistic the production estimates are on any of these platforms, specifically Aurora or SolarEdge? Thanks, Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:01 PM Rebekah Hren wrote: > Hi all, > Are there any other wrenches out there using aurorasolar.com? I have been > using it about a year and have found it awesome. Awesome that is until the > newest update came out and basically destroyed the utility for me. > > I'm wondering if I am over-reacting and I'll get used to the new update or > if anyone else is running into this problem? For example, I can no longer > export monthly or hourly production values from the tool, which to me is a > mind-boggling choice for a PV performance modeling tool software design > team to make. > > If any of you have feedback, I will be happy to pass it on to Aurora along > with my extreme disappointment. In the meantime I may need to be on the > hunt for another tool. I do really like the free Solaredge design tool, but > if course it is manufacturer specific! > > > Cheers, > Rebekah > Tel: 336.266.8800 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rebekah.hren at gmail.com Wed Jan 5 12:50:15 2022 From: rebekah.hren at gmail.com (Rebekah Hren) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 10:50:15 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Aurora solar design software? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Howie, Yes please do ask Aurora about the export functionality for production values, very curious how they will respond. The thing I find most useful in the program is the lidar, being able to snap fit roofs and trees to the right height is truly amazing. So I'd bet the lidar coverage in rural VT will be the big question about whether or not it will be useful enough for you to justify the cost I have found the numbers from Aurora to be pretty darn good (with a limited feedback period so far), of course a big part depends on how well I accurately draw the trees and adjacent obstructions. Cheers, Rebekah Tel: 336.266.8800 On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:07 AM Howie Michaelson wrote: > Rebekah, > I have never used it, although I am about to go through a demo on it this > week to see if it makes sense for us to use in rural VT. I will ask about > the export functionality . > Does anyone have any feedback about how realistic the production estimates > are on any of these platforms, specifically Aurora or SolarEdge? > Thanks, > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* > > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:01 PM Rebekah Hren > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> Are there any other wrenches out there using aurorasolar.com? I have >> been using it about a year and have found it awesome. Awesome that is until >> the newest update came out and basically destroyed the utility for me. >> >> I'm wondering if I am over-reacting and I'll get used to the new update >> or if anyone else is running into this problem? For example, I can no >> longer export monthly or hourly production values from the tool, which to >> me is a mind-boggling choice for a PV performance modeling tool software >> design team to make. >> >> If any of you have feedback, I will be happy to pass it on to Aurora >> along with my extreme disappointment. In the meantime I may need to be on >> the hunt for another tool. I do really like the free Solaredge design tool, >> but if course it is manufacturer specific! >> >> >> Cheers, >> Rebekah >> Tel: 336.266.8800 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Wed Jan 5 18:45:34 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2022 15:45:34 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Chris and All, So my understanding of open versus closed loop and my experience is that closed loop is ideal and will be increasingly required by UL9540 or utilities that require that. However many inverters don’t use SOC from the BMS to determine charge states anyway and they will be relying on voltage and since it’s easy to regulate LFP’s with voltage, open loop works fine for most inverter- LFP pairs as long as you have your settings correct. We have several systems in the field open loop and I have one in my van- All work just fine. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 5, 2022, at 8:52 AM, Chris Schaefer wrote: > >  > Correct me if I'm wrong but my research seems to lean towards the prefered method to implement Lithium batteries with an inverter system is via closed loop communication, over open loop? Currently looking into installing a BI and Fortress system of similar size side by side here at our Design and Training center to see how they perform with a lot of data collection equipment. > > Christopher > >> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 11:37 AM Mac Lewis wrote: >> Hi Kirk, >> >> Yes, Sol-Ark and Blue Ion communicate fine through the Namaka Gateway. You do need to make sure that the firmware is up to date on the Sol-Ark because there are older versions out there that don't work. Purchase their auto-updater dongle if you aren't going to have internet on the site and preload the new firmware on the dongle. >> >> I also have quite a few Radians out there working fine with the Blue Ion just using voltage and programming the Flexnet per Blue Ion. The SOC on the flexnet seems to track really well if the batteries are filling up often. >> >> My only serious gripe with Sol-Ark is generator interaction. It is very rigid and glitchy compared to Outback and strange to program. This will get better though. I do think its easy to >> >> Good Luck >> >> >> >> >>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 7:45 AM Kirk Herander wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely these different components play together. Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar >>> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC >>> Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! >>> www.vermont.solar >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > Chris Schaefer’s > > Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 > 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 > www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com > > > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 12:28:12 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 09:28:12 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, plus the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use both Solark and Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now the 3.0, Yes solark can do 3 phase including delta, has high voltage dual PV input, Outback has one big benefit and that is surge along with being modular from internals to charge controllers, all separate and serviceable individually On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:45 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > Hi All, > > I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP storage > systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. I have > no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the Radian. I'm > wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can > directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be > interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely > these different components play together. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Thu Jan 6 13:25:25 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 10:25:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk We tried using SolArk for off- grid applications but stopped for several reasons: - surge on single phase loads - too many firmware updates (i.e. bugs in the firmware or new features that are standard in other inverters) - too many service calls: false positive arc faults, AGS not working, battery over charging,.. - not modular. If one component has an error, it can take out the whole system. - too reliant on an internet connection - hidden settings that aren't described in the manual - including one that could only be accessed via the internet and left a customer without AGS for several months until they hooked up their satellite internet. We thought we were going to have to replace the inverter. We've gone back to equipment that does less and has a longer track record; so we don't feel like we're beta testing equipment with our clients and we know what the limitations are. Tech support has been great and the monitoring is quite good. It just hasn't been reliable enough for full time offgrid. When we compare the service calls for our Magnum, Outback, Conext, Trace (yes we still have two SW systems going strong) and SolArk systems, the initial savings with SokArk disappear. I can't recall the last time I had to repair/service a Magnum system unless it was user error. Keep it simple! Eric Smiley Project Manager, North Island E: eric at vecoop.ca T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) C: 250-703-6004 W: viridianenergy.ca On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 09:28 Jerry Shafer, wrote: > Kirk > You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, plus > the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use both Solark and > Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now the 3.0, Yes solark can > do 3 phase including delta, has high voltage dual PV input, Outback has one > big benefit and that is surge along with being modular from internals to > charge controllers, all separate and serviceable individually > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:45 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP >> storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. >> I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the >> Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can >> directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be >> interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely >> these different components play together. Thanks. >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Jan 6 14:27:07 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 14:27:07 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for all the comments folks. To add complexity to this subject, one of my projects is a small BI HI storage upgrade (offgrid), the other is a 500kwh BI HI bank, using multiple Radians or Sol-arks which will be AC-coupled with several string inverters. I'm leaning back to the Radians, at least for the big system. On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 1:26 PM Eric Smiley wrote: > Kirk > We tried using SolArk for off- grid applications but stopped for several > reasons: > - surge on single phase loads > - too many firmware updates (i.e. bugs in the firmware or new features > that are standard in other inverters) > - too many service calls: false positive arc faults, AGS not working, > battery over charging,.. > - not modular. If one component has an error, it can take out the whole > system. > - too reliant on an internet connection > - hidden settings that aren't described in the manual - including one that > could only be accessed via the internet and left a customer without AGS for > several months until they hooked up their satellite internet. We thought we > were going to have to replace the inverter. > > We've gone back to equipment that does less and has a longer track record; > so we don't feel like we're beta testing equipment with our clients and we > know what the limitations are. > Tech support has been great and the monitoring is quite good. It just > hasn't been reliable enough for full time offgrid. > > When we compare the service calls for our Magnum, Outback, Conext, Trace > (yes we still have two SW systems going strong) and SolArk systems, the > initial savings with SokArk disappear. I can't recall the last time I had > to repair/service a Magnum system unless it was user error. > Keep it simple! > > Eric Smiley > Project Manager, North Island > > E: eric at vecoop.ca > T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) > C: 250-703-6004 > W: viridianenergy.ca > > On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 09:28 Jerry Shafer, > wrote: > >> Kirk >> You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, plus >> the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use both Solark and >> Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now the 3.0, Yes solark can >> do 3 phase including delta, has high voltage dual PV input, Outback has one >> big benefit and that is surge along with being modular from internals to >> charge controllers, all separate and serviceable individually >> >> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:45 AM Kirk Herander wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP >>> storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. >>> I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the >>> Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can >>> directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be >>> interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely >>> these different components play together. Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>> >>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>> >>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>> >>> *www.vermont.solar* >>> >>> >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Thu Jan 6 14:59:26 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 14:59:26 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eric, Have you had the same issues with SolArk when multi-mode?  We are getting ready to put one in.  Chris On 1/6/2022 1:25 PM, Eric Smiley wrote: > Kirk > We tried using SolArk for off- grid applications but stopped for > several reasons: > - surge on single phase loads > - too many firmware updates  (i.e. bugs in the firmware or new > features that are standard in other inverters) > - too many service calls: false positive arc faults, AGS not working, > battery over charging,.. > - not modular. If one component has an error, it can take out the > whole system. > - too reliant on an internet connection > - hidden settings that aren't described in the manual - including one > that could only be accessed via the internet and left a customer > without AGS for several months until they hooked up their satellite > internet. We thought we were going to have to replace the inverter. > > We've gone back to equipment that does less and has a longer track > record; so we don't feel like we're beta testing equipment with our > clients and we know what the limitations are. > Tech support has been great and the monitoring is quite good. It just > hasn't been reliable enough for full time offgrid. > > When we compare the service calls for our Magnum, Outback, Conext, > Trace (yes we still have two SW systems going strong) and SolArk > systems, the initial savings with SokArk disappear. I can't recall the > last time I had to repair/service a Magnum system unless it was user > error. > Keep it simple! > > Eric Smiley > Project Manager, North Island > > E: eric at vecoop.ca > T:  1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) > C:  250-703-6004 > W: viridianenergy.ca > > On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 09:28 Jerry Shafer, > wrote: > > Kirk > You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, > plus the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use > both Solark and Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now > the 3.0, Yes solark can do 3 phase including delta, has high > voltage dual PV input, Outback has one big benefit and that is > surge along with being modular from internals to charge > controllers, all separate and serviceable individually > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:45 AM Kirk Herander > wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI > LFP storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback > Radians to Sol-Ark. I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it > seems more advanced than the Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark > and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can directly interface as > Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be interested in > hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely these > different components play together. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar* > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 20:09:34 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 18:09:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eric and Wrenches, We have come to the same conclusion. Sol-Ark isn't ready for prime-time off-grid. Too many glitches... One serious off-grid disadvantage with Sol-Ark is idle consumption. It really is much, much higher than older style inverters so it needs to be factored into the load analysis. The spec sheet is not accurate. The firmware is all over the place, many glitches and issues. I do admire that they are diving into the battery communication arena but voltage control works quite well. If a system can't effectively keep power on, do we care if the charging algorithm is slightly more efficient? My big question, that I've never really understood is why is it so hard to standardize battery communication? Isn't CanBus, Modbus and RS-485 a standard? Doesn't that mean that it should be easy and structured? I must not really get it... On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 12:59 PM Christopher Warfel < cwarfel at entech-engineering.com> wrote: > Eric, Have you had the same issues with SolArk when multi-mode? We are > getting ready to put one in. Chris > On 1/6/2022 1:25 PM, Eric Smiley wrote: > > Kirk > We tried using SolArk for off- grid applications but stopped for several > reasons: > - surge on single phase loads > - too many firmware updates (i.e. bugs in the firmware or new features > that are standard in other inverters) > - too many service calls: false positive arc faults, AGS not working, > battery over charging,.. > - not modular. If one component has an error, it can take out the whole > system. > - too reliant on an internet connection > - hidden settings that aren't described in the manual - including one that > could only be accessed via the internet and left a customer without AGS for > several months until they hooked up their satellite internet. We thought we > were going to have to replace the inverter. > > We've gone back to equipment that does less and has a longer track record; > so we don't feel like we're beta testing equipment with our clients and we > know what the limitations are. > Tech support has been great and the monitoring is quite good. It just > hasn't been reliable enough for full time offgrid. > > When we compare the service calls for our Magnum, Outback, Conext, Trace > (yes we still have two SW systems going strong) and SolArk systems, the > initial savings with SokArk disappear. I can't recall the last time I had > to repair/service a Magnum system unless it was user error. > Keep it simple! > > Eric Smiley > Project Manager, North Island > > E: eric at vecoop.ca > T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) > C: 250-703-6004 > W: viridianenergy.ca > > On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 09:28 Jerry Shafer, > wrote: > >> Kirk >> You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, plus >> the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use both Solark and >> Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now the 3.0, Yes solark can >> do 3 phase including delta, has high voltage dual PV input, Outback has one >> big benefit and that is surge along with being modular from internals to >> charge controllers, all separate and serviceable individually >> >> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:45 AM Kirk Herander >> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP >>> storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. >>> I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the >>> Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can >>> directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be >>> interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely >>> these different components play together. Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>> >>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>> >>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>> >>> *www.vermont.solar* >>> >>> >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Jan 6 20:52:57 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 20:52:57 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is anyone installing Storz? From what I understand, they have closed loop comms with Sol-Ark and a very close working relationship between manufacturers. I believe all customer support for Storz supplied Sol-Arks goes through Storz. They have a special Sol-Ark firmware that they maintain. Maybe users have a better experience with this collaboration. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 8:09 PM Mac Lewis wrote: > Eric and Wrenches, > > We have come to the same conclusion. Sol-Ark isn't ready for prime-time > off-grid. Too many glitches... > > One serious off-grid disadvantage with Sol-Ark is idle consumption. It > really is much, much higher than older style inverters so it needs to be > factored into the load analysis. The spec sheet is not accurate. The > firmware is all over the place, many glitches and issues. > > I do admire that they are diving into the battery communication arena but > voltage control works quite well. If a system can't effectively keep power > on, do we care if the charging algorithm is slightly more efficient? > > My big question, that I've never really understood is why is it so hard to > standardize battery communication? Isn't CanBus, Modbus and RS-485 a > standard? Doesn't that mean that it should be easy and structured? I must > not really get it... > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 12:59 PM Christopher Warfel < > cwarfel at entech-engineering.com> wrote: > >> Eric, Have you had the same issues with SolArk when multi-mode? We are >> getting ready to put one in. Chris >> On 1/6/2022 1:25 PM, Eric Smiley wrote: >> >> Kirk >> We tried using SolArk for off- grid applications but stopped for several >> reasons: >> - surge on single phase loads >> - too many firmware updates (i.e. bugs in the firmware or new features >> that are standard in other inverters) >> - too many service calls: false positive arc faults, AGS not working, >> battery over charging,.. >> - not modular. If one component has an error, it can take out the whole >> system. >> - too reliant on an internet connection >> - hidden settings that aren't described in the manual - including one >> that could only be accessed via the internet and left a customer without >> AGS for several months until they hooked up their satellite internet. We >> thought we were going to have to replace the inverter. >> >> We've gone back to equipment that does less and has a longer track >> record; so we don't feel like we're beta testing equipment with our clients >> and we know what the limitations are. >> Tech support has been great and the monitoring is quite good. It just >> hasn't been reliable enough for full time offgrid. >> >> When we compare the service calls for our Magnum, Outback, Conext, Trace >> (yes we still have two SW systems going strong) and SolArk systems, the >> initial savings with SokArk disappear. I can't recall the last time I had >> to repair/service a Magnum system unless it was user error. >> Keep it simple! >> >> Eric Smiley >> Project Manager, North Island >> >> E: eric at vecoop.ca >> T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) >> C: 250-703-6004 >> W: viridianenergy.ca >> >> On Thu., Jan. 6, 2022, 09:28 Jerry Shafer, >> wrote: >> >>> Kirk >>> You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, plus >>> the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use both Solark and >>> Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now the 3.0, Yes solark can >>> do 3 phase including delta, has high voltage dual PV input, Outback has one >>> big benefit and that is surge along with being modular from internals to >>> charge controllers, all separate and serviceable individually >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:45 AM Kirk Herander >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP >>>> storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. >>>> I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the >>>> Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can >>>> directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be >>>> interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely >>>> these different components play together. Thanks. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>>> >>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>>> >>>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>>> >>>> *www.vermont.solar* >>>> >>>> >>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>>> >>>> 802.863.1202 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- >> Christopher Warfel >> ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >> 401-466-8978 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Thu Jan 6 23:04:18 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 20:04:18 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: <76b15d89-0311-a49a-0edc-c8de5ae0ce5a@villagelab.net> References: <76b15d89-0311-a49a-0edc-c8de5ae0ce5a@villagelab.net> Message-ID: <925e24ac-f75e-d459-62dd-59f6fcd23cc5@villagepowerdesign.com> We just ordered a 3 Sol-Ark system with 16 Storz Power batteries I'll let you know this Spring once I have it up and running.  Yes they are closed loop will be UL9540 soon. We have several Sol-Arks in the field - all working great - yes a few minor issues that have required software updates - but tech support is great and they push the updates for me.  I love the monitoring and ability to remote program every parameter.  Conversion efficiency in all modes is high (though slightly under what they claim but still great) Surge is fine per leg with multiple inverters or a balancing transformer.  Gen support could use an upgrade  for sure but they are working on it. The  Time-of -use  features and interface we love as you can really fine tune daily cycles - optimizing solar and battery and grid and generator inputs - Especially great for grid-tie with strong off-grid capability as opposed to most  lightweight GTTB systems.  In pure Off-grid I find them robust and reliable so far. Enjoy! Jeff Clearwater Village Power Design > Jason Szumlanski > January 6, 2022 at 5:52 PM > Is anyone installing Storz? From what I understand, they have closed > loop comms with Sol-Ark and a very close working relationship between > manufacturers. I believe all customer support for Storz supplied > Sol-Arks goes through Storz. They have a special Sol-Ark firmware that > they maintain. > > Maybe users have a better experience with this collaboration. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Mac Lewis > January 6, 2022 at 5:09 PM > Eric and Wrenches, > > We have come to the same conclusion.  Sol-Ark isn't ready for > prime-time off-grid.  Too many glitches... > > One serious off-grid disadvantage with Sol-Ark is idle consumption.  > It really is much, much higher than older style inverters so it > needs to be factored into the load analysis.  The spec sheet is not > accurate.  The firmware is all over the place, many glitches and issues. > > I do admire that they are diving into the battery communication arena > but voltage control works quite well.  If a system can't effectively > keep power on, do we care if the charging algorithm  is slightly more > efficient? > > My big question, that I've never really understood is why is it so > hard to standardize battery communication?  Isn't CanBus, Modbus and > RS-485 a standard?  Doesn't that mean that it should be easy > and structured?  I must not really get it... > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > * > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Christopher Warfel > January 6, 2022 at 11:59 AM > > Eric, Have you had the same issues with SolArk when multi-mode?  We > are getting ready to put one in.  Chris > > On 1/6/2022 1:25 PM, Eric Smiley wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Eric Smiley > January 6, 2022 at 10:25 AM > Kirk > We tried using SolArk for off- grid applications but stopped for > several reasons: > - surge on single phase loads > - too many firmware updates  (i.e. bugs in the firmware or new > features that are standard in other inverters) > - too many service calls: false positive arc faults, AGS not working, > battery over charging,.. > - not modular. If one component has an error, it can take out the > whole system. > - too reliant on an internet connection > - hidden settings that aren't described in the manual - including one > that could only be accessed via the internet and left a customer > without AGS for several months until they hooked up their satellite > internet. We thought we were going to have to replace the inverter. > > We've gone back to equipment that does less and has a longer track > record; so we don't feel like we're beta testing equipment with our > clients and we know what the limitations are. > Tech support has been great and the monitoring is quite good. It just > hasn't been reliable enough for full time offgrid. > > When we compare the service calls for our Magnum, Outback, Conext, > Trace (yes we still have two SW systems going strong) and SolArk > systems, the initial savings with SokArk disappear. I can't recall the > last time I had to repair/service a Magnum system unless it was user > error. > Keep it simple! > > Eric Smiley > Project Manager, North Island > > E: eric at vecoop.ca > T:  1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) > C:  250-703-6004 > W: viridianenergy.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jerry Shafer > January 6, 2022 at 9:28 AM > Kirk > You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, > plus the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use both > Solark and Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now the 3.0, > Yes solark can do 3 phase including delta, has high voltage dual PV > input, Outback has one big benefit and that is surge along with being > modular from internals to charge controllers, all separate and > serviceable individually > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Kirk Herander > January 5, 2022 at 6:44 AM > Hi All, > > I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP > storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to > Sol-Ark. I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced > than the Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka > gateway/monitor can directly interface as Namaka can with some > inverter brands. And I'd be interested in hearing of any experiences > you may have as to how nicely these different components play > together. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Fri Jan 7 12:06:43 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 09:06:43 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: <967F9A1D-817A-42A8-BB97-A007E33275B0@gmail.com> References: <925e24ac-f75e-d459-62dd-59f6fcd23cc5@villagepowerdesign.com> <967F9A1D-817A-42A8-BB97-A007E33275B0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0ac4cf05-b9d1-3be7-1c52-adfe26a063cd@villagepowerdesign.com> Hi Jay and All, So I jumped the gun a bit on the auto-former - My experience thus far is mostly with multiple inverter systems (3 systems of 2 & 3 units) and so I have not had any single leg issues on those systems.  And the few single inverter systems I do have out there (2 systems) I haven't had any problem - so I was just suggesting that could be a way to deal with it if you were having  that issue - I should be more careful to speak only from experience! As for field repair I do know that some early Sol-Arks had issues with sharing the load while paralleling and there is an MC board ("Master Control" I assume)  that they offer for those instances that is field installable.  I have not had that problem. I've had customer calls twice on those 5 systems in a years time - both times a simple reboot solved the problem and other issues I've had were simply my learning curve with settings as they are a lot of options -especially if using the Time-of-use interface.   The one system I have that is a single inverter that is in GTBB mode (on grid as sell-back 99% of time with battery there for outages) has not burped once in a year's time so that's simple.  The Off-Grid systems work like a charm though high loads did cause a reboot once. It's true what  Eric says that there are settings on the PowerView interface that are not covered in the Manual - the control software is more powerful than most inverters but it does take some time to get to the bottom of all of them and it seams even Sol-Ark tech support is learning.  The control is highly customizable and that has come in super handy with a customer that is on-grid but really likes to be off grid as much as possible - so during the seasons in New England she changes her Time-of-Use settings to match the seasons and that has worked out super well (it's just changing the SOC levels that we let the batteries come to at different times of day)  - can't imagine doing what she's doing with any other inverter. In talking with tech support one tech did mention that sometimes some data gets into the "wrong ledger" or some such and that's why a simple reboot works and they say they are refining that in subsequent firmware.  A deeper level reboot is sometimes required he says by doing a factory reset rather than just a restart but then you have to reset settings but he says that is a rare need.  They have had multiple (like 4 or 5?) firmware upgrades over the year but none seemed to be that critical. So that's my fuller report.  I consider the Sol-Ark my replacement for the Sunny Island (that sadly simply isn't evolving with the times except perhaps the European model)  - Robust - stackable and much easier to install with DC coupling option and included switchgear.  Yes you do need to learn the software interface but I find it clearly no more complicated than say the Outback or Schneider XW interface once you are use to it and once you do you have much more control and easy remote programming both on laptops and phones and the customer has the same access if you want to programmables. I've never been put on hold for Sol Ark tech support and they spend as much time as it needs while looking at the same data you are looking at through PowerView - super helpful. Hope that helps! Best, Jeff > Jay > January 7, 2022 at 5:55 AM > Hi Jeff > > Thanks for the info. > > As to out of balance 120v. > > How are you configuring for that?  Just putting potential problem > loads on the xformer or ? > > Which transformer are you using with a 9kw inverter?  Most I’ve seen > are only 5-6kw. > > And as many people are using the sol ark, a question about repairing. > Is it possible to repair in the field?  Has anyone actually done it? >  If not field repairable, how quickly/easily is the repair/warranty > process working > > Thanks > Jay > > > > Jeff Clearwater > January 6, 2022 at 8:04 PM > We just ordered a 3 Sol-Ark system with 16 Storz Power batteries I'll > let you know this Spring once I have it up and running.  Yes they are > closed loop will be UL9540 soon. > > We have several Sol-Arks in the field - all working great - yes a few > minor issues that have required software updates - but tech support is > great and they push the updates for me.  I love the monitoring and > ability to remote program every parameter.  Conversion efficiency in > all modes is high (though slightly under what they claim but still great) > > Surge is fine per leg with multiple inverters or a balancing > transformer.  Gen support could use an upgrade  for sure but they are > working on it. > > The  Time-of -use  features and interface we love as you can really > fine tune daily cycles - optimizing solar and battery and grid and > generator inputs - Especially great for grid-tie with strong off-grid > capability as opposed to most  lightweight GTTB systems.  In pure > Off-grid I find them robust and reliable so far. > > Enjoy! > > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 08:55:09 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 06:55:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BP HI / Namaka with Sol-ark inverters In-Reply-To: <925e24ac-f75e-d459-62dd-59f6fcd23cc5@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <925e24ac-f75e-d459-62dd-59f6fcd23cc5@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: <967F9A1D-817A-42A8-BB97-A007E33275B0@gmail.com> Hi Jeff Thanks for the info. As to out of balance 120v. How are you configuring for that? Just putting potential problem loads on the xformer or ? Which transformer are you using with a 9kw inverter? Most I’ve seen are only 5-6kw. And as many people are using the sol ark, a question about repairing. Is it possible to repair in the field? Has anyone actually done it? If not field repairable, how quickly/easily is the repair/warranty process working Thanks Jay > On Jan 6, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > >  We just ordered a 3 Sol-Ark system with 16 Storz Power batteries I'll let you know this Spring once I have it up and running. Yes they are closed loop will be UL9540 soon. > > We have several Sol-Arks in the field - all working great - yes a few minor issues that have required software updates - but tech support is great and they push the updates for me. I love the monitoring and ability to remote program every parameter. Conversion efficiency in all modes is high (though slightly under what they claim but still great) > > Surge is fine per leg with multiple inverters or a balancing transformer. Gen support could use an upgrade for sure but they are working on it. > > The Time-of -use features and interface we love as you can really fine tune daily cycles - optimizing solar and battery and grid and generator inputs - Especially great for grid-tie with strong off-grid capability as opposed to most lightweight GTTB systems. In pure Off-grid I find them robust and reliable so far. > > Enjoy! > > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > > > >> Jason Szumlanski January 6, 2022 at 5:52 PM >> Is anyone installing Storz? From what I understand, they have closed loop comms with Sol-Ark and a very close working relationship between manufacturers. I believe all customer support for Storz supplied Sol-Arks goes through Storz. They have a special Sol-Ark firmware that they maintain. >> >> Maybe users have a better experience with this collaboration. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Mac Lewis January 6, 2022 at 5:09 PM >> Eric and Wrenches, >> >> We have come to the same conclusion. Sol-Ark isn't ready for prime-time off-grid. Too many glitches... >> >> One serious off-grid disadvantage with Sol-Ark is idle consumption. It really is much, much higher than older style inverters so it needs to be factored into the load analysis. The spec sheet is not accurate. The firmware is all over the place, many glitches and issues. >> >> I do admire that they are diving into the battery communication arena but voltage control works quite well. If a system can't effectively keep power on, do we care if the charging algorithm is slightly more efficient? >> >> My big question, that I've never really understood is why is it so hard to standardize battery communication? Isn't CanBus, Modbus and RS-485 a standard? Doesn't that mean that it should be easy and structured? I must not really get it... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Christopher Warfel January 6, 2022 at 11:59 AM >> Eric, Have you had the same issues with SolArk when multi-mode? We are getting ready to put one in. Chris >> >> On 1/6/2022 1:25 PM, Eric Smiley wrote: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Eric Smiley January 6, 2022 at 10:25 AM >> Kirk >> We tried using SolArk for off- grid applications but stopped for several reasons: >> - surge on single phase loads >> - too many firmware updates (i.e. bugs in the firmware or new features that are standard in other inverters) >> - too many service calls: false positive arc faults, AGS not working, battery over charging,.. >> - not modular. If one component has an error, it can take out the whole system. >> - too reliant on an internet connection >> - hidden settings that aren't described in the manual - including one that could only be accessed via the internet and left a customer without AGS for several months until they hooked up their satellite internet. We thought we were going to have to replace the inverter. >> >> We've gone back to equipment that does less and has a longer track record; so we don't feel like we're beta testing equipment with our clients and we know what the limitations are. >> Tech support has been great and the monitoring is quite good. It just hasn't been reliable enough for full time offgrid. >> >> When we compare the service calls for our Magnum, Outback, Conext, Trace (yes we still have two SW systems going strong) and SolArk systems, the initial savings with SokArk disappear. I can't recall the last time I had to repair/service a Magnum system unless it was user error. >> Keep it simple! >> >> Eric Smiley >> Project Manager, North Island >> >> E: eric at vecoop.ca >> T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) >> C: 250-703-6004 >> W: viridianenergy.ca >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Jerry Shafer January 6, 2022 at 9:28 AM >> Kirk >> You can also connect an outback through the NaMaka and the optics, plus the Outback has better surge power then the SolArk, We use both Solark and Outback coupled with the Blue Planet, 2.0 and now the 3.0, Yes solark can do 3 phase including delta, has high voltage dual PV input, Outback has one big benefit and that is surge along with being modular from internals to charge controllers, all separate and serviceable individually >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Kirk Herander January 5, 2022 at 6:44 AM >> Hi All, >> >> I am considering changing the inverters on several Blue ion HI LFP storage systems I'm installing this Spring from Outback Radians to Sol-Ark. I have no experience w/ Sol-Ark, but it seems more advanced than the Radian. I'm wondering if Sol-Ark and the BI Namaka gateway/monitor can directly interface as Namaka can with some inverter brands. And I'd be interested in hearing of any experiences you may have as to how nicely these different components play together. Thanks. >> >> -- >> Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar >> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC >> Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! >> www.vermont.solar >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> 802.863.1202 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 17:02:36 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 15:02:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate 3s AGS problems Message-ID: Wrenches; Having a frustrating problem here with a Mate 3s and 2-wire AGS. The generator starts and stops fine from the Mate 3 AND via Optics RE from my smartphone, but will not autostart by either SOC or Voltage. It is wired to use the inverter (VFXR 3524A) 12vdc aux output to an Outback relay board in the gen as I've had issues in the past using the FNDC relay (as I think other Wrenches have too). The Mate 3s AGS is set for the Inverter port (4). In the past on other Mate 3s systems, I seem to remember always making sure the Inverter AUX relay mode is set to REMOTE to allow the Mate 3s to control the gen instead of the very limited GEN FAULT AGS setting in the inverter. But when I pull that up both via Optics and the Mate 3s itself, there IS no "remote" option anymore. The Mate3s firmware was updated last month to the latest version. If the REMOTE setting for the VFXR inverter no longer exists, what do I set the inverter AUX relay for to enable the Mate 3s advanced AGS to assume control? Or should I delegate AGS responsibilities to one of the FX PV controllers , just re-routing the 2 genstart wires? Not to the FNDC I assume because of those past problems. I'm pretty sure this issue has to be conflicting AGS instructions from different components, as sitting here at the kitchen table at the client's off grid house I can start and stop the gen from my phone! Thanks for any suggestions! Dan Fink Buckville Energy Consulting LLC 970-672-4342 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Fri Jan 7 17:11:07 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 22:11:07 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate 3s AGS problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <30B9EC8E-5150-4BCB-A0F1-796A52C4A84C@foxfire-energy.com> Seems I was once advised to drive the AGS goodies from the Master (P1). Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:02 PM, Dan Fink wrote: > >  > Wrenches; Having a frustrating problem here with a Mate 3s and 2-wire AGS. The generator starts and stops fine from the Mate 3 AND via Optics RE from my smartphone, but will not autostart by either SOC or Voltage. It is wired to use the inverter (VFXR 3524A) 12vdc aux output to an Outback relay board in the gen as I've had issues in the past using the FNDC relay (as I think other Wrenches have too). The Mate 3s AGS is set for the Inverter port (4). > > In the past on other Mate 3s systems, I seem to remember always making sure the Inverter AUX relay mode is set to REMOTE to allow the Mate 3s to control the gen instead of the very limited GEN FAULT AGS setting in the inverter. But when I pull that up both via Optics and the Mate 3s itself, there IS no "remote" option anymore. The Mate3s firmware was updated last month to the latest version. > > If the REMOTE setting for the VFXR inverter no longer exists, what do I set the inverter AUX relay for to enable the Mate 3s advanced AGS to assume control? Or should I delegate AGS responsibilities to one of the FX PV controllers , just re-routing the 2 genstart wires? Not to the FNDC I assume because of those past problems. > > I'm pretty sure this issue has to be conflicting AGS instructions from different components, as sitting here at the kitchen table at the client's off grid house I can start and stop the gen from my phone! > > Thanks for any suggestions! > > Dan Fink > Buckville Energy Consulting LLC > 970-672-4342 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From lones.tuss at enersys.com Fri Jan 7 19:37:45 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 00:37:45 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate 3s AGS problems In-Reply-To: <30B9EC8E-5150-4BCB-A0F1-796A52C4A84C@foxfire-energy.com> References: <30B9EC8E-5150-4BCB-A0F1-796A52C4A84C@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: Hi Dan Looks like we got it figured out with a phone call. It is nice to have the system up on optics so we could look together. If anyone was curious about the issue here. The Master inverter has to be in port 1. Once that was done it came together pretty easily. Put the inverter in Port 1 set AGS to port 1. Perform a 2 minute voltage start. Then Go Home its Friday Night Take Care All -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Foxfire Energy Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 2:11 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate 3s AGS problems CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Seems I was once advised to drive the AGS goodies from the Master (P1). Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:02 PM, Dan Fink wrote: > >  > Wrenches; Having a frustrating problem here with a Mate 3s and 2-wire AGS. The generator starts and stops fine from the Mate 3 AND via Optics RE from my smartphone, but will not autostart by either SOC or Voltage. It is wired to use the inverter (VFXR 3524A) 12vdc aux output to an Outback relay board in the gen as I've had issues in the past using the FNDC relay (as I think other Wrenches have too). The Mate 3s AGS is set for the Inverter port (4). > > In the past on other Mate 3s systems, I seem to remember always making sure the Inverter AUX relay mode is set to REMOTE to allow the Mate 3s to control the gen instead of the very limited GEN FAULT AGS setting in the inverter. But when I pull that up both via Optics and the Mate 3s itself, there IS no "remote" option anymore. The Mate3s firmware was updated last month to the latest version. > > If the REMOTE setting for the VFXR inverter no longer exists, what do I set the inverter AUX relay for to enable the Mate 3s advanced AGS to assume control? Or should I delegate AGS responsibilities to one of the FX PV controllers , just re-routing the 2 genstart wires? Not to the FNDC I assume because of those past problems. > > I'm pretty sure this issue has to be conflicting AGS instructions from different components, as sitting here at the kitchen table at the client's off grid house I can start and stop the gen from my phone! > > Thanks for any suggestions! > > Dan Fink > Buckville Energy Consulting LLC > 970-672-4342 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-7b396d10a42c0f44&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Fre-wrenches.org%2F > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-a1bff427848a4564&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-b8ea30cbc06c75b2&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Fpipermail%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-c65f2c4f8389e144&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-3373bc454b22cb3c&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org%2F > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-7b396d10a42c0f44&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Fre-wrenches.org%2F List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-a1bff427848a4564&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-b8ea30cbc06c75b2&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Fpipermail%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-c65f2c4f8389e144&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501d2dca-31313abf-454455534531-3373bc454b22cb3c&q=1&e=6e31d3f5-c9bb-4494-b575-259ca78441ed&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org%2F This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. 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From danbob88 at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 19:41:16 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 17:41:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate 3s AGS problems In-Reply-To: <30B9EC8E-5150-4BCB-A0F1-796A52C4A84C@foxfire-energy.com> References: <30B9EC8E-5150-4BCB-A0F1-796A52C4A84C@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: That was a quick solve, thanks Wrench Dan at Foxfire + Lones at Outback who called me after 5PM on a Friday evening. For future search indexing reference on this list (which I do a LOT): Inverter 12VDC output controlling AGS MUST be on Port 1 on the Outback Hub. Problem solved. Dan Fink Buckville Energy Consulting 970-672-4342 On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 15:11 Foxfire Energy wrote: > Seems I was once advised to drive the AGS goodies from the Master (P1). > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 7, 2022, at 5:02 PM, Dan Fink wrote: > > > >  > > Wrenches; Having a frustrating problem here with a Mate 3s and 2-wire > AGS. The generator starts and stops fine from the Mate 3 AND via Optics RE > from my smartphone, but will not autostart by either SOC or Voltage. It is > wired to use the inverter (VFXR 3524A) 12vdc aux output to an Outback relay > board in the gen as I've had issues in the past using the FNDC relay (as I > think other Wrenches have too). The Mate 3s AGS is set for the Inverter > port (4). > > > > In the past on other Mate 3s systems, I seem to remember always making > sure the Inverter AUX relay mode is set to REMOTE to allow the Mate 3s to > control the gen instead of the very limited GEN FAULT AGS setting in the > inverter. But when I pull that up both via Optics and the Mate 3s itself, > there IS no "remote" option anymore. The Mate3s firmware was updated last > month to the latest version. > > > > If the REMOTE setting for the VFXR inverter no longer exists, what do I > set the inverter AUX relay for to enable the Mate 3s advanced AGS to assume > control? Or should I delegate AGS responsibilities to one of the FX PV > controllers , just re-routing the 2 genstart wires? Not to the FNDC I > assume because of those past problems. > > > > I'm pretty sure this issue has to be conflicting AGS instructions from > different components, as sitting here at the kitchen table at the client's > off grid house I can start and stop the gen from my phone! > > > > Thanks for any suggestions! > > > > Dan Fink > > Buckville Energy Consulting LLC > > 970-672-4342 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 18:26:25 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2022 16:26:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Mate 3s AGS problems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dan As it works with a manual start, I have to ask about the ags settings. All start parameters that you want to use need to be manually enabled: volts ( 24, 2hr, 2 min) load ( start/stop kW) and SOC. Is the quiet time enabled? If so is the date and time been updated to correct local time? I’ve had very good luck with OB AGS especially with mate 3/3S. Curious what you find Jay > On Jan 7, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Dan Fink wrote: > >  > Wrenches; Having a frustrating problem here with a Mate 3s and 2-wire AGS. The generator starts and stops fine from the Mate 3 AND via Optics RE from my smartphone, but will not autostart by either SOC or Voltage. It is wired to use the inverter (VFXR 3524A) 12vdc aux output to an Outback relay board in the gen as I've had issues in the past using the FNDC relay (as I think other Wrenches have too). The Mate 3s AGS is set for the Inverter port (4). > > In the past on other Mate 3s systems, I seem to remember always making sure the Inverter AUX relay mode is set to REMOTE to allow the Mate 3s to control the gen instead of the very limited GEN FAULT AGS setting in the inverter. But when I pull that up both via Optics and the Mate 3s itself, there IS no "remote" option anymore. The Mate3s firmware was updated last month to the latest version. > > If the REMOTE setting for the VFXR inverter no longer exists, what do I set the inverter AUX relay for to enable the Mate 3s advanced AGS to assume control? Or should I delegate AGS responsibilities to one of the FX PV controllers , just re-routing the 2 genstart wires? Not to the FNDC I assume because of those past problems. > > I'm pretty sure this issue has to be conflicting AGS instructions from different components, as sitting here at the kitchen table at the client's off grid house I can start and stop the gen from my phone! > > Thanks for any suggestions! > > Dan Fink > Buckville Energy Consulting LLC > 970-672-4342 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From maclewis1 at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 12:49:49 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 10:49:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Imax disturbance Error Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I've got a customer that has an issue with their ~10 yr old SB8000US connected to a quad stack of Sunny Island system that's off-grid. It looks like it's on and off, trying to make power but seems to think there is a problem on the AC side. Do you have any advice as to what may be going on? Anything that I can do that may not require replacement? Very tough communicating to SMA while on site and of course, this always happens on Friday night. Thanks! -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Sun Jan 9 12:54:54 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 07:54:54 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Imax disturbance Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Mac, It’s been my experience over the years that the Imax failure is fatal. marco On Sunday, January 9, 2022, Mac Lewis wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > I've got a customer that has an issue with their ~10 yr old SB8000US > connected to a quad stack of Sunny Island system that's off-grid. > > It looks like it's on and off, trying to make power but seems to think > there is a problem on the AC side. Do you have any advice as to what may > be going on? Anything that I can do that may not require replacement? > Very tough communicating to SMA while on site and of course, this always > happens on Friday night. > > Thanks! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Sun Jan 9 14:36:31 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 19:36:31 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ? References: Message-ID: Hello we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there. One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs in two of his household appliances. I know it’s common to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition it, in any way ? I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains panel. 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry at starlightsolar.com Sun Jan 9 15:15:26 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (larrycrutcher) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 13:15:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38300780-66BA-4D9F-867C-3ECC5AFEC6C9@starlightsolar.com> Hi Jeremy, Do you recall my email from May 28, 2021? I explained our experience and solution. I have attached it below for reference. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On May 28, 2021, at 9:03 AM, larry at starlightsolar.com wrote: Hello Jeremy, For more than a decade we have been aware of this issue wit Magnum Energy inverters. This primarily happened with the washer brand Splendide but other motors run by electronic controllers have caused the issue as well. When the washer is powered by Magnum inverters, the AC waveform becomes very distorted. You can view this on a scope as in the attached image. When you try to power other complex loads at the same time, the inverter can’t sufficiently emulate a sine wave. We found a simple solution. Install a high frequency inverter for the washer only. A 600W GoPower (made by Cotek) inverter has worked for us. They are cheap but well made with great support. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems Magnum inverter running Splendide washer, Voltage(top) and current. On Jan 9, 2022, at 12:36 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote: > > Hello > we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there. > One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs in two of his household appliances. I know it’s common to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition it, in any way ? > I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always > The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains panel. > 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. > > Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Magnum Splendide washer 50MF cap.png Type: image/png Size: 620539 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: splendide before.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 19669 bytes Desc: not available URL: From garrison.rie at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 16:29:55 2022 From: garrison.rie at gmail.com (Garrison) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 15:29:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Imax disturbance Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2DB4C8A1-5D8E-4E3F-89D0-E5FBB99239C8@gmail.com> I was troubleshooting a site on Friday with the same Imax error on the same SB8000 inverter. Took the cover off and found a cracked capacitor. Inverter was manufactured 12/2021 and SMA is telling me it’s out of warranty (by a week). I’m trying to appeal to their humanity. Good luck! Garrison Riegel Celestar Solar > On Jan 9, 2022, at 11:55 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: > > Hey Mac, > > It’s been my experience over the years that the Imax failure is fatal. > > marco > >> On Sunday, January 9, 2022, Mac Lewis wrote: >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> I've got a customer that has an issue with their ~10 yr old SB8000US connected to a quad stack of Sunny Island system that's off-grid. >> >> It looks like it's on and off, trying to make power but seems to think there is a problem on the AC side. Do you have any advice as to what may be going on? Anything that I can do that may not require replacement? Very tough communicating to SMA while on site and of course, this always happens on Friday night. >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cadams at sunrocksolar.com Sun Jan 9 17:31:18 2022 From: cadams at sunrocksolar.com (Carl Adams) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 17:31:18 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Imax disturbance Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mac, SMA tech support told me this usually indicates a failing transformer so as Marco suggests, the patient does not have long to live. I've seen a couple of these at 10+ years of service on the inverter. Was kind of regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 12:50 PM Mac Lewis wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > I've got a customer that has an issue with their ~10 yr old SB8000US > connected to a quad stack of Sunny Island system that's off-grid. > > It looks like it's on and off, trying to make power but seems to think > there is a problem on the AC side. Do you have any advice as to what may > be going on? Anything that I can do that may not require replacement? > Very tough communicating to SMA while on site and of course, this always > happens on Friday night. > > Thanks! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sun Jan 9 19:10:25 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 16:10:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne we do to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires or have loose connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at the inverters On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez wrote: > > > Hello > we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there. > One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs > in two of his household appliances. I know it’s common to have some > dimming of the lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but > has anyone ran across a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the > voltage / condition it, in any way ? > I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always > The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with > #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains > panel. > 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado > > > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sun Jan 9 19:23:35 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 17:23:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Imax disturbance Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7d87b113-c541-9a10-f572-febdaf406429@solarray.com> AC coupled off grid?  Sounds like a good time to go DC coupled. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 1/9/22 3:31 PM, Carl Adams wrote: > Mac, > > SMA tech support told me this usually indicates a failing transformer > so as Marco suggests, the patient does not have long to live.  I've > seen a couple of these at 10+ years of service on the inverter. > > Was kind of regards > Carl Adams > SunRock Solar > > On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 12:50 PM Mac Lewis wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > I've got a customer that has an issue with their ~10 yr old > SB8000US connected to a quad stack of Sunny Island system > that's off-grid. > > It looks like it's on and off, trying to make power but seems to > think there is a problem on the AC side. Do you have any advice as > to what may be going on? Anything that I can do that may not > require replacement?  Very tough communicating to SMA while on > site and of course, this always happens on Friday night. > > Thanks! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sun Jan 9 19:26:41 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2022 17:26:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Long runs of URD direct buried?  Just a nick into the metal can corrode the cable all the way through over time.  We use conduit for almost everything anymore.  The savings with URD doesn't pan out, when you have to abandon the line after 10 years. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne > we do to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires > or have loose connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at > the inverters > > On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez > wrote: > > >> >> Hello >> we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there. >> One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure >> of PCBs in two of his household appliances.  I know it’s common >> to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or other >> large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution to >> alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition it, in >> any way ? >> I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or >> always >> The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel >> with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper >> to the mains panel. >> 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. >> >> > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado >> >> >> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Mon Jan 10 06:34:46 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:34:46 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. Message-ID: Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in general) The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line loss under 5%. TIA db -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Mon Jan 10 08:37:42 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (Pieter Huebner) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 07:37:42 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> It sounds like you are working on an Island near Jones port Maine ( Norton Island). The site had or has a Bergey 7.5kw XL-R wind turbine, on a tilt tower which is almost impossible to tilt, a solar array on a stacked log tower, Kubota generator, flooded cell lead acid batteries and Outback Inverters. Your assessment of the system is 100% correct, bad workmanship, and little or no maintenance. The original design was poorly thought out as well. The poor workmanship was not limited to the energy system, the electrical infrastructure had issues as well. The original installer was in way over his head. I have been to that site at the bequest of the original owner to repair the wind turbine years ago. My suggestion is that you evaluate the existing equipment and infrastructure, and salvage what you can then start with a fresh sheet of paper. The electrical loads need to be mapped, for example the original owner had a hot tub at the main house. The site would lend itself well to a micro grid system. if you like we can have long discussions about this site and I will be happy to share what I know about it as well as share my experiences with AC and DC distribution for off grid sites. Pieter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Foxfire Energy Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 5:35 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in general) The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line loss under 5%. TIA db -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 09:13:17 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 07:13:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> References: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: Hello Dan, I think the power requirements are way too low to consider DC transmission. Readily accessible parts are a real concern. However, why not think about going well above 480? How about 10 kV or above? There are a lot of companies supplying utilities that have cheap, relatively efficient and reliable single phase transformers in that range. You can overbuild your power system to make up for the transmission loss and be way ahead. Good Luck! On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 6:37 AM Pieter Huebner < pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: > It sounds like you are working on an Island near Jones port Maine ( Norton > Island). The site had or has a Bergey 7.5kw XL-R wind turbine, on a tilt > tower which is almost impossible to tilt, a solar array on a stacked log > tower, Kubota generator, flooded cell lead acid batteries and Outback > Inverters. Your assessment of the system is 100% correct, bad workmanship, > and little or no maintenance. The original design was poorly thought out as > well. The poor workmanship was not limited to the energy system, the > electrical infrastructure had issues as well. The original installer was in > way over his head. I have been to that site at the bequest of the original > owner to repair the wind turbine years ago. > > My suggestion is that you evaluate the existing equipment > and infrastructure, and salvage what you can then start with a fresh sheet > of paper. The electrical loads need to be mapped, for example the original > owner had a hot tub at the main house. > > The site would lend itself well to a micro grid system. if you like we can > have long discussions about this site and I will be happy to share what I > know about it as well as share my experiences with AC and DC distribution > for off grid sites. > > Pieter > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Foxfire Energy > *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 5:35 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. > > > > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand > Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off > the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC > power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar > and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 > private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had > significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several > lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in > general) > > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the > island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing > system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps > me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC > and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge > (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and > back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas > because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for > transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous > duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line > loss under 5%. TIA db > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 09:24:43 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:24:43 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. Message-ID: <5AA49EFA-3ED5-4E8E-958B-042E4E970F57@gmail.com> So you have a client with clever ideas - my deepest sympathies. The five most frightening words from a client are “I am a retired engineer.” DC transmission is theoretically more efficient due to the surface conduction effects of AC. However, this is only true in a practical sense at utility/megawatt scale. At residential scale you will have losses in the electronics at either end that will negate the wire savings. Get some toroidal transformers and go to 480 and back. Fat wire is kind of expensive, but really it’s the trench (and these days, pvc conduit) that cost the money. Fat wire in conduit is solid state and will never blow a capacitor. Transformers, if not overloaded, last. On that last point, 2x oversize the transformers for the load. There will be “mission creep” while you aren’t looking. “Oh, we didn’t think that half a dozen 1500 watt resistance heaters scattered around would make any difference.” Good luck. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 09:32:17 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 08:32:17 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, i agree, with others, DC has lower losses when at higher voltage, when i was involved with similar project, we took transformer cost plus wire cost did some simulations, (added wire and transformer for different configurations) and selected lowest cost. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 5:34 AM Foxfire Energy wrote: > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand > Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off > the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC > power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar > and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 > private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had > significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several > lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in > general) > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the > island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing > system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps > me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC > and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge > (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and > back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas > because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for > transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous > duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line > loss under 5%. TIA db > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cometenergysystems at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 11:43:09 2022 From: cometenergysystems at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:43:09 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would use a 6,600V single phase outdoor pad mounted transformer pair and deep bury a single #2 direct burial cable. Easy and quick. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:34 AM Foxfire Energy wrote: > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand > Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off > the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC > power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar > and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 > private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had > significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several > lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in > general) > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the > island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing > system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps > me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC > and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge > (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and > back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas > because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for > transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous > duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line > loss under 5%. TIA db > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon Jan 10 12:06:03 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:06:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62ba024f-fea8-2c7c-92d1-10f498e5c0d4@solarray.com> That's a long enough run that you really need to weigh the cost of a separate system.  I'm not seeing the advantages of keeping a single system for the whole island. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 1/10/22 9:43 AM, Chris Mason wrote: > I would use a 6,600V single phase outdoor pad mounted transformer pair > and deep bury a single #2 direct burial cable. Easy and quick. > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 7:34 AM Foxfire Energy > wrote: > > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a > Stand Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private > resort island off the New England coast a few years back.. The > system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC power center (@120/240VAC) with a > 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar and a 12kW Diesel > Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 private > cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had > significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence > of several lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor > workmanship in general) > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the > island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the > existing system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is > pretty brainy (keeps me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump > the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC and send it on like 4/0AL and back > down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge (we've done it before).. The > new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and back for > transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas > because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience > with DC for transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including > 25% for continuous duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a > different wire) and a line loss under 5%. TIA db > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > Chris Mason > Solar systems designer > Generac Generators Industrial technician > > Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar > Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670 > WhatsApp 264.235.5670 > Skype: netconcepts > www.cometsolar.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Mon Jan 10 12:35:25 2022 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:35:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: <5AA49EFA-3ED5-4E8E-958B-042E4E970F57@gmail.com> References: <5AA49EFA-3ED5-4E8E-958B-042E4E970F57@gmail.com> Message-ID: <571df713-93b3-8b4c-eb81-08000d60fbbb@coveoregon.com> The decision to use transformers, to step the voltage up and down, rather than larger wire for a long circuit is more complicated than simply comparing the cost of the wire to the cost of transformers and smaller wire. Even with good toroidal transformers, the transformer pair is adding about 10% loss in the system. And while the transformer hysteresis losses may be a less than 1% of the transformer capacity, they are 24/7 independent of the load. The supply side costs to provide for the lost energy in the transformers needs to be considered too. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 1/10/2022 6:24 AM, Hilton Dier wrote: > So you have a client with clever ideas - my deepest sympathies. The five most frightening words from a client are “I am a retired engineer.” > > DC transmission is theoretically more efficient due to the surface conduction effects of AC. However, this is only true in a practical sense at utility/megawatt scale. At residential scale you will have losses in the electronics at either end that will negate the wire savings. > > Get some toroidal transformers and go to 480 and back. Fat wire is kind of expensive, but really it’s the trench (and these days, pvc conduit) that cost the money. Fat wire in conduit is solid state and will never blow a capacitor. Transformers, if not overloaded, last. > > On that last point, 2x oversize the transformers for the load. There will be “mission creep” while you aren’t looking. “Oh, we didn’t think that half a dozen 1500 watt resistance heaters scattered around would make any difference.” > > Good luck. > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > > From lucchesesolar at me.com Mon Jan 10 13:12:39 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 10:12:39 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy -Microinverters not reporting In-Reply-To: References: <1a8ec0bf6b348edece01ce8e96ce407e@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <3C6A24E6-7678-4F2C-8A9A-28D16284A859@me.com> Greetings Wrenches, Two of the Enphase systems I installed 3-4 years ago about a year apart of one another are all of a sudden indicating a micro inverters not reporting and Envoy not reporting diagnosis on Enlighten and Installer Toolkit. This was initially diagnosed a few weeks ago before the weather hit the west coast so is unrelated in that regard. The first site with micro’s not reporting had not had any equipment or network changes to justify why it wasn’t connecting to the client’s router. After multiple attempts to get it to reconnect and the client even replacing his older router with something more powerful it still will not connect. I’m using the new Installer Toolkit as well and even with that when I’m at the point of “Connect Envoy to internet via Wifi” with network name and password fields populated it still will not enable satisfaction when pressing “CONNECT”. I’ve been to the site multiple times now and also went through Enphase’s live chat (while not on site) and still no success. No matter what I’ve tried so far, no joy. I also have a second site doing the same thing however I’ve been instructing the competent homeowner remotely on this one before I make the effort to get on site. Also, even though now it is saying micro’s not reporting I believe this one initially just said Envoy not reporting. I’ve confirmed myself on the first site that the system is still producing and definitely nothing wrong with the array or micros and had the client confirm power production on the second site by observing the utility meter. Has anyone else had this type of problem with the Envoy after years of successful operation and no site changes? Do they actually just fail every once in awhile or have the newest generations of the Envoys over the last few years been solid for everyone? It would be problematic to run ethernet cables on both sites so other than perhaps testing purposes a hardwired connection isn’t an option. At the moment I’m planning a second “live chat” support call but thinking they’re not going to take me anywhere beyond the support documentation they already have. Last time the support specialist ended with “don’t worry it will work”. If this was an off grid job I’d have all kinds of loaner equipment I could implement to help eliminate possibilities but I’d rather not purchase an extra Envoy just yet. I wish they still had a piece of hardware for simple monitoring of power production. I know the original Envoy had some limitations as well but at least it gave quick at glance confidence for the homeowner to the large contingent of my clients that don't want to be troubled with searching for their system in a web portal or app. This move of going to all online monitoring by many manufacturers burns up many hours of my time each year troubleshooting wi-fi and networking bu*****t. I love Enphase and am blown away by what they’re doing but sure wish they still offered a simple monitor other than a phone or computer to observe production on site. Thanks for any insights if you have it, Nick From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Mon Jan 10 14:15:01 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:15:01 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy -Microinverters not reporting In-Reply-To: <3C6A24E6-7678-4F2C-8A9A-28D16284A859@me.com> References: <1a8ec0bf6b348edece01ce8e96ce407e@redwoodalliance.org> <3C6A24E6-7678-4F2C-8A9A-28D16284A859@me.com> Message-ID: <6edb912f-0dc0-239c-dc85-09b7797858da@entech-engineering.com> I find they drop out over time due to networking issues and eventually will reconnect and catch up on data. Right now, about 20% of my systems installed in the past 5 years are having some issue with a microinverter or network. In a couple of days, they probably will reconnect and the emails will end.  I do think that it is a good idea to put in a $100 meter/enclosure so that you have a visual on power production, especially where the network is weak.  Our little coop here has "smart meters" that are supposed to show power flow.Having the customer create an account and give you the password is another check if you have such meters.  My problem has been getting the utility here to make sure the software is set up for us the owners to be able to determine power flow. Chris On 1/10/2022 1:12 PM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Greetings Wrenches, > > Two of the Enphase systems I installed 3-4 years ago about a year apart of one another are all of a sudden indicating a micro inverters not reporting and Envoy not reporting diagnosis on Enlighten and Installer Toolkit. This was initially diagnosed a few weeks ago before the weather hit the west coast so is unrelated in that regard. The first site with micro’s not reporting had not had any equipment or network changes to justify why it wasn’t connecting to the client’s router. After multiple attempts to get it to reconnect and the client even replacing his older router with something more powerful it still will not connect. I’m using the new Installer Toolkit as well and even with that when I’m at the point of “Connect Envoy to internet via Wifi” with network name and password fields populated it still will not enable satisfaction when pressing “CONNECT”. I’ve been to the site multiple times now and also went through Enphase’s live chat (while not on site) and still no success. No matter what I’ve tried so far, no joy. I also have a second site doing the same thing however I’ve been instructing the competent homeowner remotely on this one before I make the effort to get on site. Also, even though now it is saying micro’s not reporting I believe this one initially just said Envoy not reporting. I’ve confirmed myself on the first site that the system is still producing and definitely nothing wrong with the array or micros and had the client confirm power production on the second site by observing the utility meter. > > Has anyone else had this type of problem with the Envoy after years of successful operation and no site changes? Do they actually just fail every once in awhile or have the newest generations of the Envoys over the last few years been solid for everyone? It would be problematic to run ethernet cables on both sites so other than perhaps testing purposes a hardwired connection isn’t an option. At the moment I’m planning a second “live chat” support call but thinking they’re not going to take me anywhere beyond the support documentation they already have. Last time the support specialist ended with “don’t worry it will work”. If this was an off grid job I’d have all kinds of loaner equipment I could implement to help eliminate possibilities but I’d rather not purchase an extra Envoy just yet. > > I wish they still had a piece of hardware for simple monitoring of power production. I know the original Envoy had some limitations as well but at least it gave quick at glance confidence for the homeowner to the large contingent of my clients that don't want to be troubled with searching for their system in a web portal or app. This move of going to all online monitoring by many manufacturers burns up many hours of my time each year troubleshooting wi-fi and networking bu*****t. I love Enphase and am blown away by what they’re doing but sure wish they still offered a simple monitor other than a phone or computer to observe production on site. > > Thanks for any insights if you have it, Nick > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tump at swnl.net Mon Jan 10 14:49:44 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:49:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> References: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: <4B2C77B5-F2AF-4B6F-A4CB-E2D79669186A@swnl.net> Hey this is exactly everything I was going to say. Ahh the new owner, the dentist he’s a real piece of work. You got your spring vacation, on him, you got paid and now you want to go back? Hummm lets see installation for a MR. know it all, 500+ miles from home and you’re now going to use a transformer AND all wire on an island in salt water. Wow must be some good smoke. Dan YOU KNOW BETTER! > On Jan 10, 2022, at 8:37 AM, Pieter Huebner wrote: > > It sounds like you are working on an Island near Jones port Maine ( Norton Island). The site had or has a Bergey 7.5kw XL-R wind turbine, on a tilt tower which is almost impossible to tilt, a solar array on a stacked log tower, Kubota generator, flooded cell lead acid batteries and Outback Inverters. Your assessment of the system is 100% correct, bad workmanship, and little or no maintenance. The original design was poorly thought out as well. The poor workmanship was not limited to the energy system, the electrical infrastructure had issues as well. The original installer was in way over his head. I have been to that site at the bequest of the original owner to repair the wind turbine years ago. > My suggestion is that you evaluate the existing equipment and infrastructure, and salvage what you can then start with a fresh sheet of paper. The electrical loads need to be mapped, for example the original owner had a hot tub at the main house. > The site would lend itself well to a micro grid system. if you like we can have long discussions about this site and I will be happy to share what I know about it as well as share my experiences with AC and DC distribution for off grid sites. > Pieter > > > > From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Foxfire Energy > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 5:35 AM > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. > > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in general) > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line loss under 5%. TIA db > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Mon Jan 10 14:53:28 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:53:28 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: <4B2C77B5-F2AF-4B6F-A4CB-E2D79669186A@swnl.net> References: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> <4B2C77B5-F2AF-4B6F-A4CB-E2D79669186A@swnl.net> Message-ID: 3600 feet is 0.68 miles. That's a long distance. I totally agree with Ray's suggestion that a second system is probably a better option. August On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:49 AM Tump wrote: > Hey this is exactly everything I was going to say. Ahh the new owner, the > dentist he’s a real piece of work. You got your spring vacation, on him, > you got paid and now you want to go back? Hummm lets see installation for a > MR. know it all, 500+ miles from home and you’re now going to use a > transformer AND all wire on an island in salt water. Wow must be some good > smoke. Dan YOU KNOW BETTER! > > On Jan 10, 2022, at 8:37 AM, Pieter Huebner > wrote: > > It sounds like you are working on an Island near Jones port Maine ( Norton > Island). The site had or has a Bergey 7.5kw XL-R wind turbine, on a tilt > tower which is almost impossible to tilt, a solar array on a stacked log > tower, Kubota generator, flooded cell lead acid batteries and Outback > Inverters. Your assessment of the system is 100% correct, bad workmanship, > and little or no maintenance. The original design was poorly thought out as > well. The poor workmanship was not limited to the energy system, the > electrical infrastructure had issues as well. The original installer was in > way over his head. I have been to that site at the bequest of the original > owner to repair the wind turbine years ago. > My suggestion is that you evaluate the existing equipment > and infrastructure, and salvage what you can then start with a fresh sheet > of paper. The electrical loads need to be mapped, for example the original > owner had a hot tub at the main house. > The site would lend itself well to a micro grid system. if you like we can > have long discussions about this site and I will be happy to share what I > know about it as well as share my experiences with AC and DC distribution > for off grid sites. > Pieter > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Foxfire Energy > *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 5:35 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. > > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand > Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off > the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC > power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar > and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 > private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had > significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several > lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in > general) > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the > island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing > system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps > me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC > and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge > (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and > back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas > because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for > transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous > duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line > loss under 5%. TIA db > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 14:54:41 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:54:41 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Transformers is the way to go boost and buck, but do a cost analysis for wire vs transformer, go even more than the 480 Jerry On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 3:34 AM Foxfire Energy wrote: > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand > Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off > the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC > power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar > and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 > private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had > significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several > lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in > general) > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the > island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing > system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps > me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC > and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge > (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and > back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas > because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for > transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous > duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line > loss under 5%. TIA db > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Mon Jan 10 15:05:58 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:05:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: References: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> <4B2C77B5-F2AF-4B6F-A4CB-E2D79669186A@swnl.net> Message-ID: Aluminum wire……. > On Jan 10, 2022, at 2:53 PM, August Goers wrote: > > 3600 feet is 0.68 miles. That's a long distance. I totally agree with Ray's suggestion that a second system is probably a better option. > > August > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:49 AM Tump > wrote: > Hey this is exactly everything I was going to say. Ahh the new owner, the dentist he’s a real piece of work. You got your spring vacation, on him, you got paid and now you want to go back? Hummm lets see installation for a MR. know it all, 500+ miles from home and you’re now going to use a transformer AND all wire on an island in salt water. Wow must be some good smoke. Dan YOU KNOW BETTER! >> On Jan 10, 2022, at 8:37 AM, Pieter Huebner > wrote: >> >> It sounds like you are working on an Island near Jones port Maine ( Norton Island). The site had or has a Bergey 7.5kw XL-R wind turbine, on a tilt tower which is almost impossible to tilt, a solar array on a stacked log tower, Kubota generator, flooded cell lead acid batteries and Outback Inverters. Your assessment of the system is 100% correct, bad workmanship, and little or no maintenance. The original design was poorly thought out as well. The poor workmanship was not limited to the energy system, the electrical infrastructure had issues as well. The original installer was in way over his head. I have been to that site at the bequest of the original owner to repair the wind turbine years ago. >> My suggestion is that you evaluate the existing equipment and infrastructure, and salvage what you can then start with a fresh sheet of paper. The electrical loads need to be mapped, for example the original owner had a hot tub at the main house. >> The site would lend itself well to a micro grid system. if you like we can have long discussions about this site and I will be happy to share what I know about it as well as share my experiences with AC and DC distribution for off grid sites. >> Pieter >> >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Foxfire Energy >> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 5:35 AM >> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. >> >> Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in general) >> The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line loss under 5%. TIA db >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> Tump <>3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net <> >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> Blair "TUMP" May >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From integrityenergy101 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 15:11:58 2022 From: integrityenergy101 at gmail.com (Amos Post) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:11:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38263478-F7BB-4DF7-B5BF-46F50D60ED9B@gmail.com> I also have a new (7 month old) PAE system with 2-4448 Inverters (stacked) that we are having some strange issues with. The most troublesome issue is the new Rheem wall-hung LP instant water heater/boiler is throwing an Error Code 12 which is supposedly a “Flame Failure”. It’s a brand new installation with new tanks and lines and the gas guys have doubled checked everything. We are now wondering if it might be related to the power supply. The other indications that it could be related are flickering lights, a 12V battery charger (AC plug in type) that won’t work off inverter power (but will when plugged into the genny, and I’m seeing a little bit of wondering in the Hz on my simple Exeltech volt meter. Magnum recommended a run capacitor on the boiler circuit. I installed that on Friday and still had the error code come up 4 times over the weekend. Any thoughts? Best, Amos Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 ienergyVT.com Facebook > On Jan 9, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Ray wrote: > > Long runs of URD direct buried? Just a nick into the metal can corrode the cable all the way through over time. We use conduit for almost everything anymore. The savings with URD doesn't pan out, when you have to abandon the line after 10 years. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: >> I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne we do to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires or have loose connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at the inverters >> >> On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez > wrote: >> >>> >>> Hello >>> we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there. >>> One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs in two of his household appliances. I know it’s common to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition it, in any way ? >>> I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always >>> The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains panel. >>> 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. >>> >>> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> Solar Installation / Design Expert >> All Solar, Inc. >> 1453 M St >> Penrose Colorado >>> >>> >>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE LOGO 150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 17:37:12 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:37:12 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. Message-ID: <2953282C-D94F-420A-BB87-3179157F6B14@gmail.com> I didn’t really register the distance on the first look. These days, 3,600 feet of 3” PVC conduit is going to knock you back ~$18,000 to start, plus trenching and cable on top of that. I agree with prior comments that it would be cheaper to put in a new system. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 15:22:22 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 13:22:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7DC1BC40-C00D-40F0-998E-3DDE1D917170@gmail.com> I have a question about the high voltage transformer costs. I’ve never sized or costed one out. What does the 480v vs say a higher voltage one cost? And if you go higher what does that high voltage rated wire wire cost vs 600v? It’s an interesting question and like someone said, let’s see the costs for the different designs. I find it hard to believe that a completely new system would pencil out, but then you have a whole new system too vs a bunch of plastic and aluminum in the ground. Curious where this ends up Jay > On Jan 10, 2022, at 1:05 PM, Tump wrote: > > Aluminum wire……. >>> On Jan 10, 2022, at 2:53 PM, August Goers wrote: >>> >>> 3600 feet is 0.68 miles. That's a long distance. I totally agree with Ray's suggestion that a second system is probably a better option. >>> >>> August >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:49 AM Tump wrote: >>>> Hey this is exactly everything I was going to say. Ahh the new owner, the dentist he’s a real piece of work. You got your spring vacation, on him, you got paid and now you want to go back? Hummm lets see installation for a MR. know it all, 500+ miles from home and you’re now going to use a transformer AND all wire on an island in salt water. Wow must be some good smoke. Dan YOU KNOW BETTER! >>>>>> On Jan 10, 2022, at 8:37 AM, Pieter Huebner wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like you are working on an Island near Jones port Maine ( Norton Island). The site had or has a Bergey 7.5kw XL-R wind turbine, on a tilt tower which is almost impossible to tilt, a solar array on a stacked log tower, Kubota generator, flooded cell lead acid batteries and Outback Inverters. Your assessment of the system is 100% correct, bad workmanship, and little or no maintenance. The original design was poorly thought out as well. The poor workmanship was not limited to the energy system, the electrical infrastructure had issues as well. The original installer was in way over his head. I have been to that site at the bequest of the original owner to repair the wind turbine years ago. >>>>>> My suggestion is that you evaluate the existing equipment and infrastructure, and salvage what you can then start with a fresh sheet of paper. The electrical loads need to be mapped, for example the original owner had a hot tub at the main house. >>>>>> The site would lend itself well to a micro grid system. if you like we can have long discussions about this site and I will be happy to share what I know about it as well as share my experiences with AC and DC distribution for off grid sites. >>>>>> Pieter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Foxfire Energy >>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 5:35 AM >>>>>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in general) >>>>>> The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line loss under 5%. TIA db >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Tump3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net >>>>> Solarwinds Northernlights >>>>> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >>>>> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >>>>> Blair "TUMP" May >>>>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>>>> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >>>>> >>>>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>>>> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> Tump3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> Blair "TUMP" May >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Jan 10 18:52:21 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 17:52:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: <2953282C-D94F-420A-BB87-3179157F6B14@gmail.com> References: <2953282C-D94F-420A-BB87-3179157F6B14@gmail.com> Message-ID: <019901d8067d$1ca05d60$55e11820$@solarcentex.com> Especially when one considers that an island off the coast of Maine is solid rock and ragged/jagged. Just imagine that rock-sawing! Separate system! Scot Arey Solar CenTex -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Hilton Dier Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 4:37 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. I didn’t really register the distance on the first look. These days, 3,600 feet of 3” PVC conduit is going to knock you back ~$18,000 to start, plus trenching and cable on top of that. I agree with prior comments that it would be cheaper to put in a new system. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 10 19:54:35 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 16:54:35 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: <019901d8067d$1ca05d60$55e11820$@solarcentex.com> References: <2953282C-D94F-420A-BB87-3179157F6B14@gmail.com> <019901d8067d$1ca05d60$55e11820$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Again, its all math, a seperate system, inverters, batteries, array will cost more than the conduit, most likely alot more. Only you know if the island can even be trenched so start there, this will determine if you even have a choice. The existing system may need upgrading as it is and add that in too. Math got to love it. On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 3:58 PM wrote: > Especially when one considers that an island off the coast of Maine is > solid rock and ragged/jagged. Just imagine that rock-sawing! > > Separate system! > > Scot Arey > Solar CenTex > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of Hilton Dier > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 4:37 PM > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. > > I didn’t really register the distance on the first look. These days, 3,600 > feet of 3” PVC conduit is going to knock you back ~$18,000 to start, plus > trenching and cable on top of that. I agree with prior comments that it > would be cheaper to put in a new system. > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cometenergysystems at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 06:33:45 2022 From: cometenergysystems at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 07:33:45 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. In-Reply-To: <4B2C77B5-F2AF-4B6F-A4CB-E2D79669186A@swnl.net> References: <000f01d80627$3e8eb260$bbac1720$@offgridenterprises.org> <4B2C77B5-F2AF-4B6F-A4CB-E2D79669186A@swnl.net> Message-ID: This is what we use, cheap and simple https://www.ebay.com/itm/185043797837?hash=item2b1578474d:g:TBAAAOSwmKNhO77W On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 3:49 PM Tump wrote: > Hey this is exactly everything I was going to say. Ahh the new owner, the > dentist he’s a real piece of work. You got your spring vacation, on him, > you got paid and now you want to go back? Hummm lets see installation for a > MR. know it all, 500+ miles from home and you’re now going to use a > transformer AND all wire on an island in salt water. Wow must be some good > smoke. Dan YOU KNOW BETTER! > > On Jan 10, 2022, at 8:37 AM, Pieter Huebner > wrote: > > It sounds like you are working on an Island near Jones port Maine ( Norton > Island). The site had or has a Bergey 7.5kw XL-R wind turbine, on a tilt > tower which is almost impossible to tilt, a solar array on a stacked log > tower, Kubota generator, flooded cell lead acid batteries and Outback > Inverters. Your assessment of the system is 100% correct, bad workmanship, > and little or no maintenance. The original design was poorly thought out as > well. The poor workmanship was not limited to the energy system, the > electrical infrastructure had issues as well. The original installer was in > way over his head. I have been to that site at the bequest of the original > owner to repair the wind turbine years ago. > My suggestion is that you evaluate the existing equipment > and infrastructure, and salvage what you can then start with a fresh sheet > of paper. The electrical loads need to be mapped, for example the original > owner had a hot tub at the main house. > The site would lend itself well to a micro grid system. if you like we can > have long discussions about this site and I will be happy to share what I > know about it as well as share my experiences with AC and DC distribution > for off grid sites. > Pieter > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Foxfire Energy > *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 5:35 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Transmitting 15kW 3600ft Off Grid. > > Hi Guys, Got a good one for you.. We were tasked to refurbish a Stand > Alone (aka Off Grid) power system on a 100 acre private resort island off > the New England coast a few years back.. The system has a 12kW(AC)/ 48VDC > power center (@120/240VAC) with a 10kW Bergey wind turbine, 3kW of Solar > and a 12kW Diesel Generator.. It currently powers two main lodges and 10 > private cabins.. The system was never installed properly and had > significant damage when we got there (no system ground, evidence of several > lightening strikes, open/corroded connections, and poor workmanship in > general) > The new owners want to build a third lodge at the other end of the > island.. Some 3600ft away, and want to feed full power from the existing > system to the new lodge.. Thing is, the new owner is pretty brainy (keeps > me on my toes).. My first thought was to bump the 120/240VAC up to 480VAC > and send it on like 4/0AL and back down to 120/240VAC at the new lodge > (we've done it before).. The new owner wants to launder the AC to DC and > back for transmission.. Says DC for transmission is the new Cats Pajamas > because of the efficiency.. News to me.. Anyone have experience with DC for > transmission? Again.. I'm shooting for 15kW (including 25% for continuous > duty), 3600ft, 600V wire (but could go with a different wire) and a line > loss under 5%. TIA db > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Tue Jan 11 14:34:45 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:34:45 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ 5548 fan replacement Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone have a source where you can get a replacement fan for the Conext XW+ inverters? I just talked to Schneider and since this inverter is just out of warranty, they will not send another one, nor sell me one. I also checked the archives because I thought that someone asked about this before, but that was for the charge controller. A couple people said they had suppliers for the fans, but none specifically were mentioned on that thread. I appreciate the help! Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ericyoungren at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 15:03:35 2022 From: ericyoungren at gmail.com (Eric Youngren) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 12:03:35 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 115VAC input connector for SQ-Flex IO101 box? Message-ID: Happy New Year Wrenches! Does anyone know the official name of this connector on the Grundfos IO101 power interface box to supply a SQ-Flex pump with generator power? Or suggestions on where I can find the connector or a replacement cord set? Thanks! Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_3188.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 708873 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Tue Jan 11 21:56:47 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 21:56:47 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] RytEnergy batteries and system Message-ID: Does anyone have any experience with RytEnergy? Their pricing looks well below market for reputable companies... Thanks, Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Solar Electric & Heat Pumps Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry at starlightsolar.com Wed Jan 12 11:36:37 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (larrycrutcher) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:36:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 115VAC input connector for SQ-Flex IO101 box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DFF017A-6990-462F-82B3-8D0EFF407FF4@starlightsolar.com> Being an old “ham operator” I thought perhaps this: https://www.americanradiosupply.com/4-pin-microphone-electrical-cable-connector/ Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 11, 2022, at 1:03 PM, Eric Youngren wrote: Happy New Year Wrenches! Does anyone know the official name of this connector on the Grundfos IO101 power interface box to supply a SQ-Flex pump with generator power? Or suggestions on where I can find the connector or a replacement cord set? Thanks! Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2022-01-12 at 9.34.02 AM.png Type: image/png Size: 576262 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Wed Jan 12 17:18:20 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:18:20 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ? In-Reply-To: <38263478-F7BB-4DF7-B5BF-46F50D60ED9B@gmail.com> References: <38263478-F7BB-4DF7-B5BF-46F50D60ED9B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Amos, I installed an MS-4448AE (not PAE) in late 2008 that wouldn't fire up a Buderus hydronic boiler. Ultimately it was replaced with a Lochinvar and that solved the issue. Magnum asked for the Buderus for testing, but that never happened, as once the problem was resolved by the heating contractor it was forgotten. This issue was addressed on this list around 2/10/09, if you'd care to peruse the archives. To make it easier, I'll forward you a few of the emails, including a compendium of Wrenches responses, off list. I'll also note that I have used a MS4024AE in my own home since 2010. It's been flawlessly reliable. However, every time the fridge comes on the lights flicker, especially one chandelier with 6 40W incandescent bulbs on a rotary dimmer. And one client with a MS4448PAE I installed in 2011 complained that while the inverter worked well, anything in his home with a clock built in ran slow and had to be reset at least monthly. Allan On 1/10/2022 1:11 PM, Amos Post wrote: > I also have a new (7 month old) PAE system with 2-4448 Inverters > (stacked) that we are having some strange issues with.  The most > troublesome issue is the new Rheem wall-hung LP instant water > heater/boiler is throwing an Error Code 12 which is supposedly a > “Flame Failure”.  It’s a brand new installation with new tanks and > lines and the gas guys have doubled checked everything.  We are now > wondering if it might be related to the power supply.  The other > indications that it could be related are flickering lights, a 12V > battery charger (AC plug in type) that won’t work off inverter power > (but will when plugged into the genny, and I’m seeing a little bit of > wondering in the Hz on my simple Exeltech volt meter. > Magnum recommended a run capacitor on the boiler circuit.  I installed > that on Friday and still had the error code come up 4 times over the > weekend. > Any thoughts? > Best, > Amos > > >        Amos Post > Integrity Energy >   W 802.763.7023 >    C 802.291.2188 > ienergyVT.com > Facebook > >> On Jan 9, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Ray wrote: >> >> Long runs of URD direct buried?  Just a nick into the metal can >> corrode the cable all the way through over time.  We use conduit for >> almost everything anymore.  The savings with URD doesn't pan out, >> when you have to abandon the line after 10 years. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> 303 505-8760 >> On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: >>> I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne >>> we do to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in >>> wires or have loose connections. Eliminate what you can before >>> looking at the inverters >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello >>>> we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there. >>>> One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and >>>> failure of PCBs in two of his household appliances. I know it’s >>>> common to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or >>>> other large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution >>>> to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition >>>> it, in any way ? >>>> I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or >>>> always >>>> The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel >>>> with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG >>>> copper to the mains panel. >>>> 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> Solar Installation / Design Expert >>> All Solar, Inc. >>> 1453 M St >>> Penrose Colorado >>> -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com (no longer) NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional (as I let it expire after 18+ years) New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE%20LOGO%20150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 07:38:02 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:38:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch Message-ID: Good Morning Wrenches, I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. This only happens when the generator is automatically started. It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop trigger. This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. Any ideas? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Jan 13 11:21:20 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:21:20 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <627b5c8c-2fbf-6002-d493-38f1caabdab7@psln.com> Mac, Though the FW is up to date, have you tried unplugging the CAT5 at the back of the Mate, waiting a minute and plugging it back in (the correct port!)? Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 1/13/2022 4:38 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > Good Morning Wrenches, > > I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. > > This only happens when the generator is automatically started. > It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect > and start charging as it should.  After about 30 seconds to 1 minute > it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and > the charger will be disabled. It will then continue to run the > generator until you turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't > reached the stop trigger. > > This system will charge normally when the generator is manually > started.  The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > * > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 11:41:09 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:41:09 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You need to confirm that the gennyhas acceptable voltage and freq,the inverter may protecting itself Jerry On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:38 AM Mac Lewis wrote: > Good Morning Wrenches, > > I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. > > This only happens when the generator is automatically started. > It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and > start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will > drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger > will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you > turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop > trigger. > > This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. > The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Jan 13 10:43:24 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 07:43:24 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7DF355E3-5D2D-4D5B-B801-32ED3C404549@millersolar.com> Mac: Have you rebooted the Mate since this problem began? Had the exact same problem and this fixed it. If rebooting does not resolve it you might try resetting to factory defaults. William Miller www.millersolar.com > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:38 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > >  > Good Morning Wrenches, > > I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. > > This only happens when the generator is automatically started. > It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop trigger. > > This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Thu Jan 13 12:53:56 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:53:56 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps the re-bulk and re-float settings are too high? AGS settings only enabled for load start? Everything has been working without issue for a significant period up until now? I had something similar on a double Radian system last year. In the Events it appeared that someone had gone in and messed with almost every setting but yet they hadn’t. First time ever that I experienced the inverter being told to turn off without warrant from the Mate3-S. Not uncommon to see the frozen screen which is always remedied by unplugging CAt5 briefly but this was the first un-warranted turn off command I had ever observed. Outback suspected that the Cat5 cables were corrupted due to all the EMF and suggested I replace all the cables with the shielded varieties. This would be a significant task on this project so I have to take that step. After updating by 1 firmware revision, resetting to defaults and re-programming it went away (fingers crossed). Let us know what you find, Nick > On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:38 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > > Good Morning Wrenches, > > I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. > > This only happens when the generator is automatically started. > It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop trigger. > > This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Thu Jan 13 13:32:50 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 18:32:50 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Wrenches I was able to contact Mac this morning. Luckily this system was on optics so we were able to go look at the start and stop conditions in the AGS programming and the Event logs. The event logs stated the stop was caused by an SOC stop command. In AGS this system is using 3 start conditions Voltage start , Load start and Soc start At the customer’s request the Soc is set to start at 82 % and stop at 90% Which seems a little crazy to both Mac and I But to test if the Soc was indeed the cause of the short run. We disabled the SOC start/stop. We then started a bulk cycle to set the absorb timer to the 2 hr time limit as programmed in the inverter. We raised the 2 minute timer above the current battery voltage to initiate a gen run. The gen did start and at this point the gen has run for approximately 1.5 to 2 hours. So it does appear that SOC stop was the cause of the short run, as indicated in the event Log. What neither or Mac or myself can explain is the graph on the Dashboard does not show the Soc above 80% I am not certain if it is due to a momentary spike that is too quick to record. At this point that is just a guess (sorry). But that is the situation. I will say it was nice to have this on Optics as we could go visit the site and do everything from our respective homes. Mac thank you for returning my call and working through this issue. Take Care All From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Mac Lewis Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:38 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Good Morning Wrenches, I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. This only happens when the generator is automatically started. It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop trigger. This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. Any ideas? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Thu Jan 13 14:48:54 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 12:48:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bergey XL.1 blades Message-ID: <00b901d808b6$9932c120$cb984360$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks: Does anyone happen to have a spare set of XL.1 blades? Just trying to help a fellow who’s getting desperate, and Bergey has long since discontinued product support for this wind genny. Sincerely, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Thu Jan 13 17:42:14 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:42:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the update Lines. While it seems from turning off the soc gen control, the generator is running as it should, I don't understand how that explains the charging behavior, or why the inverter continued to ruin the generator without using it's output. Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Solar Electric & Heat Pumps Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 1:32 PM Tuss, Lones wrote: > Hello Wrenches > > I was able to contact Mac this morning. Luckily this system was on optics > so we were able to go look at the start and stop conditions in the AGS > programming and the Event logs. > > The event logs stated the stop was caused by an SOC stop command. > > In AGS this system is using 3 start conditions > > Voltage start , Load start and Soc start > > At the customer’s request the Soc is set to start at 82 % and stop at 90% > > Which seems a little crazy to both Mac and I > > But to test if the Soc was indeed the cause of the short run. > > We disabled the SOC start/stop. > > We then started a bulk cycle to set the absorb timer to the 2 hr time > limit as programmed in the inverter. > > We raised the 2 minute timer above the current battery voltage to initiate > a gen run. > > The gen did start and at this point the gen has run for approximately 1.5 > to 2 hours. > > So it does appear that SOC stop was the cause of the short run, as > indicated in the event Log. > > What neither or Mac or myself can explain is the graph on the Dashboard > does not show the Soc above > > 80% I am not certain if it is due to a momentary spike that is too quick > to record. At this point that is just a guess (sorry). But that is the > situation. > > I will say it was nice to have this on Optics as we could go visit the > site and do everything from our respective homes. > > Mac thank you for returning my call and working through this issue. > > Take Care All > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Mac Lewis > *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:38 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch > > > > *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not > click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know > the content is safe. > > > > Good Morning Wrenches, > > > > I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. > > > > This only happens when the generator is automatically started. > > It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and > start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will > drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger > will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you > turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop > trigger. > > > > This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. > The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates* > > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that > is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in > error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views > or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do > not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This > email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by > electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or > enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. > The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The > company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software > viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive > similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. > Please consider the environment before printing. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Fri Jan 14 15:42:37 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 20:42:37 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Howie I believe the situation was this. The gen would automatically start ..as it should. The inverter would accept the ac source… as it should. It would begin a charge sequence again …as it should. But The inverter would shut off the generator within a very short amount of time. Usually this is caused by a start condition initiating a gen run. But some other stop condition causing the gen to be turned off. With 3 different run stop conditions used in the Mate3S it was just a matter of making thing a little more simple. I disabled the SOC run/stop in the Mate3S AGS just to see if that was the cause of the stop command. Doing a 2 minute voltage start will cause the gen to run until the absorb timer on the inverter has zeroed out. Indeed it did. The Soc command was set to start at 80 or 82% (I forget which) and Stop at 90% as requested by the customer. Both Mac and I agreed this was a bit crazy but it was what the customer wanted. By looking in the Optics Event logs the shut down was attributed to the Stop SOC condition being met. So eliminating SOC was a logical first step. To me the only remaining question is I did not see the SOC reach 90% but that is a pretty tight window in which to operate. A more usual SOC start /stop condition would be 60%to 90% with a 100% charge required every so often (user selectable). I believe this system was set for 100% charge every 14 Days. I hope this helps explain without adding further confusion. Take Care All From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 2:42 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Thanks for the update Lines. While it seems from turning off the soc gen control, the generator is running as it should, I don't understand how that explains the charging behavior, or why the inverter continued to ruin the generator without using it's output. Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Solar Electric & Heat Pumps Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 1:32 PM Tuss, Lones > wrote: Hello Wrenches I was able to contact Mac this morning. Luckily this system was on optics so we were able to go look at the start and stop conditions in the AGS programming and the Event logs. The event logs stated the stop was caused by an SOC stop command. In AGS this system is using 3 start conditions Voltage start , Load start and Soc start At the customer’s request the Soc is set to start at 82 % and stop at 90% Which seems a little crazy to both Mac and I But to test if the Soc was indeed the cause of the short run. We disabled the SOC start/stop. We then started a bulk cycle to set the absorb timer to the 2 hr time limit as programmed in the inverter. We raised the 2 minute timer above the current battery voltage to initiate a gen run. The gen did start and at this point the gen has run for approximately 1.5 to 2 hours. So it does appear that SOC stop was the cause of the short run, as indicated in the event Log. What neither or Mac or myself can explain is the graph on the Dashboard does not show the Soc above 80% I am not certain if it is due to a momentary spike that is too quick to record. At this point that is just a guess (sorry). But that is the situation. I will say it was nice to have this on Optics as we could go visit the site and do everything from our respective homes. Mac thank you for returning my call and working through this issue. Take Care All From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Mac Lewis Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:38 AM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Good Morning Wrenches, I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. This only happens when the generator is automatically started. It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop trigger. This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. Any ideas? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Fri Jan 14 18:06:55 2022 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:06:55 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50ca95e9-e4b1-d9e7-d618-bbc7de8b00b7@coveoregon.com> Sounds like what you have run into is one of the bugs in the FNDC that causes the SOC indication to suddenly change. It should change to 100% when the charge conditions are met. It will also change to 100% in some circumstances when they are not met. Here is a link to a post that I put on the Outback forum in 2014 about this issue: https://forum.outbackpower.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7448&hilit=Kent+Osterberg+FNDC Folks are still complaining about this bug today. Just search for "SOC jumps to 100%". I believe that FNDCs are shipped with the same firmware now that they had then. The fix is to not use the SOC start/stop trigger. If your customer insists on using SOC start/stop, you can reduce the likelihood that the bug will terminate the generator run cycle early by starting the generator at a lower SOC. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 1/14/2022 12:42 PM, Tuss, Lones wrote: > > Hello Howie > > I  believe the situation was this. > > The gen would automatically start ..as it should. > > The inverter would accept the ac source… as it should. > > It would begin a charge sequence again …as it should. > > But > > The inverter would shut off the generator within a very short amount > of time. > > Usually this is caused by a start condition initiating a gen run. > > But some other stop condition causing the gen to be turned off. > > With 3 different run stop conditions used in the Mate3S it was just a > matter of making thing a little more simple. I disabled the SOC > run/stop in the Mate3S AGS just to see if that was the cause of the > stop command. > > Doing a 2 minute  voltage start will cause the  gen to run until the > absorb timer on the inverter has zeroed out. Indeed it did. The Soc > command was set to start at 80 or 82% (I forget which) and Stop at 90% > as requested by the customer. > > Both Mac and I agreed this was a bit crazy but it was what the > customer wanted. > > By looking in the Optics Event logs the shut down was attributed to > the Stop SOC condition being met. > > So eliminating SOC was a logical first step. > >     To me the only remaining question is I did not see the SOC reach > 90% but that is a pretty tight window in which to operate. A more > usual SOC start /stop condition would be 60%to 90% with a 100% charge > required every so often (user selectable). I believe this system was > set for 100% charge every 14 Days. > > I hope this helps explain without adding further confusion. > > Take Care All > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Howie Michaelson > *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 2:42 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch > > > > > *CAUTION:*This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not > click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and > know the content is safe. > > Thanks for the update Lines. While it seems from turning off the soc > gen control, the generator is running as it should, I don't understand > how that explains the charging behavior, or why the inverter continued > to ruin the generator without using it's output. > > Howie > > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > Solar Electric & Heat Pumps Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004 > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 1:32 PM Tuss, Lones wrote: > > Hello Wrenches > > I was able to contact Mac this morning. Luckily this system was on > optics so we were able to go look at the start and stop conditions > in the AGS programming and the Event logs. > > The event logs stated the stop was caused by an SOC stop command. > > In AGS this system is using 3 start conditions > > Voltage start , Load start and  Soc start > > At the customer’s request the Soc is set to start at 82 % and stop > at 90% > > Which seems a little crazy to both Mac and I > > But to test if the Soc was indeed the cause of the short run. > > We disabled the SOC start/stop. > > We then started a bulk cycle to set the absorb timer to the 2 hr > time limit as programmed in the inverter. > > We raised the 2 minute timer above the current battery voltage to > initiate a gen run. > > The gen did start and at this point the gen has run for > approximately 1.5 to 2 hours. > > So it does appear that  SOC stop was the cause of the short run, > as indicated in the event Log. > > What neither or Mac or myself can explain is the graph on the > Dashboard does not show the Soc above > > 80% I am not certain if it is due to a momentary spike that is too > quick to record. At this point that is just a guess (sorry). But > that is the situation. > >  I will say it was nice to have this on Optics as we could go > visit the site and do everything from our respective homes. > > Mac thank you for returning my call and working through this issue. > > Take Care All > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Mac Lewis > *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:38 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch > > > > > *CAUTION:*This email originated from outside of the Company. Do > not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the > sender and know the content is safe. > > Good Morning Wrenches, > > I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. > > This only happens when the generator is automatically started. > > It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then > connect and start charging as it should.  After about 30 seconds > to 1 minute it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in > cool down mode and the charger will be disabled.  It will then > continue to run the generator until you turn it off manually, > presumably because it hasn't reached the stop trigger. > > This system will charge normally when the generator is manually > started.  The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates* > > > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential > information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you > have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in > this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily > represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does > not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic > means and does not create any legally binding contract or > enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written > contract. The recipient should check this email and any > attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any > loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended > recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us > in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the > environment before printing. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential information > that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this > email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your > system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those > of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or > its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct > transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally > binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully > signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any > attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss > or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended > recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in > the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the > environment before printing. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Sun Jan 16 13:59:44 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 13:59:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lones, Thanks for the attempted direct communication via phone - sorry I didn't catch it. I appreciate the clarification about the system logic and what the issue seems to have been. I am still confused as to why the system would leave the generator running after it decided it was done charging based on the settings. I understand that the SOC start/stop charging was much tighter than would typically be desirable, but I don't understand why that would create the generator "run on" after those parameters were met. I ask in part because my experience with the original Mate on VFX systems is what appears to be a software glitch or a minor component failure, where the AGS system fails to send a signal to the generator to start based on programmed parameters. It is odd since it seems to work sometimes and then not at other times. The issue seems to appear after the mate is several years old, and the only way I've been able to fix the problem is to replace the mate, and then the system works fine. (Sorry to sort of hijack this thread). Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:42 PM Tuss, Lones wrote: > Hello Howie > > I believe the situation was this. > > The gen would automatically start ..as it should. > > The inverter would accept the ac source… as it should. > > It would begin a charge sequence again …as it should. > > But > > The inverter would shut off the generator within a very short amount of > time. > > Usually this is caused by a start condition initiating a gen run. > > But some other stop condition causing the gen to be turned off. > > With 3 different run stop conditions used in the Mate3S it was just a > matter of making thing a little more simple. I disabled the SOC run/stop in > the Mate3S AGS just to see if that was the cause of the stop command. > > Doing a 2 minute voltage start will cause the gen to run until the > absorb timer on the inverter has zeroed out. Indeed it did. The Soc command > was set to start at 80 or 82% (I forget which) and Stop at 90% as requested > by the customer. > > Both Mac and I agreed this was a bit crazy but it was what the customer > wanted. > > By looking in the Optics Event logs the shut down was attributed to the > Stop SOC condition being met. > > So eliminating SOC was a logical first step. > > To me the only remaining question is I did not see the SOC reach 90% > but that is a pretty tight window in which to operate. A more usual SOC > start /stop condition would be 60%to 90% with a 100% charge required every > so often (user selectable). I believe this system was set for 100% charge > every 14 Days. > > I hope this helps explain without adding further confusion. > > Take Care All > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Howie Michaelson > *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 2:42 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch > > > > *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not > click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know > the content is safe. > > > > Thanks for the update Lines. While it seems from turning off the soc gen > control, the generator is running as it should, I don't understand how that > explains the charging behavior, or why the inverter continued to ruin the > generator without using it's output. > > Howie > > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > Solar Electric & Heat Pumps Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004 > > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 1:32 PM Tuss, Lones wrote: > > Hello Wrenches > > I was able to contact Mac this morning. Luckily this system was on optics > so we were able to go look at the start and stop conditions in the AGS > programming and the Event logs. > > The event logs stated the stop was caused by an SOC stop command. > > In AGS this system is using 3 start conditions > > Voltage start , Load start and Soc start > > At the customer’s request the Soc is set to start at 82 % and stop at 90% > > Which seems a little crazy to both Mac and I > > But to test if the Soc was indeed the cause of the short run. > > We disabled the SOC start/stop. > > We then started a bulk cycle to set the absorb timer to the 2 hr time > limit as programmed in the inverter. > > We raised the 2 minute timer above the current battery voltage to initiate > a gen run. > > The gen did start and at this point the gen has run for approximately 1.5 > to 2 hours. > > So it does appear that SOC stop was the cause of the short run, as > indicated in the event Log. > > What neither or Mac or myself can explain is the graph on the Dashboard > does not show the Soc above > > 80% I am not certain if it is due to a momentary spike that is too quick > to record. At this point that is just a guess (sorry). But that is the > situation. > > I will say it was nice to have this on Optics as we could go visit the > site and do everything from our respective homes. > > Mac thank you for returning my call and working through this issue. > > Take Care All > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Mac Lewis > *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:38 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch > > > > *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not > click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know > the content is safe. > > > > Good Morning Wrenches, > > > > I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. > > > > This only happens when the generator is automatically started. > > It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and > start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will > drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger > will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you > turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop > trigger. > > > > This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. > The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates* > > > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that > is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in > error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views > or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do > not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This > email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by > electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or > enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. > The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The > company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software > viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive > similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. > Please consider the environment before printing. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that > is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in > error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views > or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do > not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This > email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by > electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or > enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. > The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The > company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software > viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive > similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. > Please consider the environment before printing. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Mon Jan 17 11:32:02 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 16:32:02 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Howie Thank you for taking my phone call this morning. The charging in Mac’s system was terminated by the warm up and cool down times as programmed into the AGS. So a gen run was called for. The system waited for the warmup time of 1 minute before charging began. The event logs show a Soc stop command was initiated. The charger was turned of and the gen ran for the 1 minute cool down time. The gen stop was initiated after the cool down time of 1 minute. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 11:00 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Lones, Thanks for the attempted direct communication via phone - sorry I didn't catch it. I appreciate the clarification about the system logic and what the issue seems to have been. I am still confused as to why the system would leave the generator running after it decided it was done charging based on the settings. I understand that the SOC start/stop charging was much tighter than would typically be desirable, but I don't understand why that would create the generator "run on" after those parameters were met. I ask in part because my experience with the original Mate on VFX systems is what appears to be a software glitch or a minor component failure, where the AGS system fails to send a signal to the generator to start based on programmed parameters. It is odd since it seems to work sometimes and then not at other times. The issue seems to appear after the mate is several years old, and the only way I've been able to fix the problem is to replace the mate, and then the system works fine. (Sorry to sort of hijack this thread). Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ [https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1MQF8aTcFNnBR59ia5JAm1DsPHCxzNkPx&export=download] Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:42 PM Tuss, Lones > wrote: Hello Howie I believe the situation was this. The gen would automatically start ..as it should. The inverter would accept the ac source… as it should. It would begin a charge sequence again …as it should. But The inverter would shut off the generator within a very short amount of time. Usually this is caused by a start condition initiating a gen run. But some other stop condition causing the gen to be turned off. With 3 different run stop conditions used in the Mate3S it was just a matter of making thing a little more simple. I disabled the SOC run/stop in the Mate3S AGS just to see if that was the cause of the stop command. Doing a 2 minute voltage start will cause the gen to run until the absorb timer on the inverter has zeroed out. Indeed it did. The Soc command was set to start at 80 or 82% (I forget which) and Stop at 90% as requested by the customer. Both Mac and I agreed this was a bit crazy but it was what the customer wanted. By looking in the Optics Event logs the shut down was attributed to the Stop SOC condition being met. So eliminating SOC was a logical first step. To me the only remaining question is I did not see the SOC reach 90% but that is a pretty tight window in which to operate. A more usual SOC start /stop condition would be 60%to 90% with a 100% charge required every so often (user selectable). I believe this system was set for 100% charge every 14 Days. I hope this helps explain without adding further confusion. Take Care All From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 2:42 PM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Thanks for the update Lines. While it seems from turning off the soc gen control, the generator is running as it should, I don't understand how that explains the charging behavior, or why the inverter continued to ruin the generator without using it's output. Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Solar Electric & Heat Pumps Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 1:32 PM Tuss, Lones > wrote: Hello Wrenches I was able to contact Mac this morning. Luckily this system was on optics so we were able to go look at the start and stop conditions in the AGS programming and the Event logs. The event logs stated the stop was caused by an SOC stop command. In AGS this system is using 3 start conditions Voltage start , Load start and Soc start At the customer’s request the Soc is set to start at 82 % and stop at 90% Which seems a little crazy to both Mac and I But to test if the Soc was indeed the cause of the short run. We disabled the SOC start/stop. We then started a bulk cycle to set the absorb timer to the 2 hr time limit as programmed in the inverter. We raised the 2 minute timer above the current battery voltage to initiate a gen run. The gen did start and at this point the gen has run for approximately 1.5 to 2 hours. So it does appear that SOC stop was the cause of the short run, as indicated in the event Log. What neither or Mac or myself can explain is the graph on the Dashboard does not show the Soc above 80% I am not certain if it is due to a momentary spike that is too quick to record. At this point that is just a guess (sorry). But that is the situation. I will say it was nice to have this on Optics as we could go visit the site and do everything from our respective homes. Mac thank you for returning my call and working through this issue. Take Care All From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Mac Lewis Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:38 AM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian Glitch CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Good Morning Wrenches, I have an Outback Radian 8048 site that is acting up. This only happens when the generator is automatically started. It will start the generator and warm it up normally and then connect and start charging as it should. After about 30 seconds to 1 minute it will drop the AC input, and put the generator in cool down mode and the charger will be disabled. It will then continue to run the generator until you turn it off manually, presumably because it hasn't reached the stop trigger. This system will charge normally when the generator is manually started. The firmware on the Mate3s is up to date. Any ideas? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Mon Jan 17 13:18:30 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 10:18:30 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <688a13e7-4747-0ed4-d2a8-93e05fa49b5a@villagelab.net> References: <688a13e7-4747-0ed4-d2a8-93e05fa49b5a@villagelab.net> Message-ID: Good Day Wrenches, So can anyone steer me to generator models in the 5-7 KW range (gas) that are known compatible with the Conext XW Pro and the Conext AGS module? Thanks! Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 > Dave Tedeyan > January 11, 2022 at 11:34 AM > Hi all, > > Does anyone have a source where you can get a replacement fan for the > Conext XW+ inverters? I just talked to Schneider and since this > inverter is just out of warranty, they will not send another one, nor > sell me one. > > I also checked the archives because I thought that someone asked about > this before, but that was for the charge controller. A couple people > said they had suppliers for the fans, but none specifically were > mentioned on that thread. > > I appreciate the help! > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > Logo > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49098 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Mon Jan 17 15:01:54 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 12:01:54 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: <688a13e7-4747-0ed4-d2a8-93e05fa49b5a@villagelab.net> Message-ID: Conext AGS can be set up for almost any remote start/stop configuration. Honda eu7000i with remote start relays from GeneratorLine. > On Jan 17, 2022, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > > Good Day Wrenches, > > So can anyone steer me to generator models in the 5-7 KW range (gas) that are known compatible with the Conext XW Pro and the Conext AGS module? > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > > >> Dave Tedeyan January 11, 2022 at 11:34 AM >> Hi all, >> >> Does anyone have a source where you can get a replacement fan for the Conext XW+ inverters? I just talked to Schneider and since this inverter is just out of warranty, they will not send another one, nor sell me one. >> >> I also checked the archives because I thought that someone asked about this before, but that was for the charge controller. A couple people said they had suppliers for the fans, but none specifically were mentioned on that thread. >> >> I appreciate the help! >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Mon Jan 17 15:38:00 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 12:38:00 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: <688a13e7-4747-0ed4-d2a8-93e05fa49b5a@villagelab.net> Message-ID: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> Thanks Michael and Jay! If the generator is a 2-wire start why is there the need for additional remote start relays?  Does the Honda not come fully equipped?  And if not is there a generator that does? Thanks, Jeff > Michael Morningstar > January 17, 2022 at 12:01 PM > Conext AGS can be set up for almost any remote start/stop > configuration. Honda eu7000i with remote start relays from GeneratorLine. > > > > * > > * > > *Michael **Morningstar* > * > * > */Morningstar Electric/* > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 10:18 AM > Good Day Wrenches, > > So can anyone steer me to generator models in the 5-7 KW range (gas) > that are known compatible with the Conext XW Pro and the Conext AGS > module? > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 10:18 AM > Good Day Wrenches, > > So can anyone steer me to generator models in the 5-7 KW range (gas) > that are known compatible with the Conext XW Pro and the Conext AGS > module? > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 6175 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49093 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49098 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Mon Jan 17 16:29:23 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 13:29:23 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> Thanks All, Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire start?  We do that all the time with bigger units. Thanks again! Best, jc > Jay > January 17, 2022 at 1:19 PM > Hi Jeff > > The generator is not set up for 2 wire remote. > > The two options that I know of are the one I sent you which converts > the remote to 2 wire. > Disadvantage of this one is that it will only attempt the start 1 > time. But that generator on gasoline seems to start every time first > time.  Propane conversion not. > > Or the factory unit which like this one. > > https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-32380-Z37-820ZA/p65440.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP1IhOE5lCjwjD81BLmbvGVudBjZaJN_siF2UiT4xbNe9uhGxusSlWxoCEKsQAvD_BwE > > The advantage of this one is that it follows the inverter ags start > programming so you get 3 attempts if memory serves. > But you’ve got to figure out the correct ags protocol on the Xw. > > Hope this helps > > Jay > > > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 12:38 PM > Thanks Michael and Jay! > > If the generator is a 2-wire start why is there the need for > additional remote start relays?  Does the Honda not come fully > equipped?  And if not is there a generator that does? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jan 17 13:55:03 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 11:55:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jeff Can’t go wrong with the Honda eu7000i Also there are remote ags 2 with hook ups That work with that unit. Jay > On Jan 17, 2022, at 11:18 AM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > >  Good Day Wrenches, > > So can anyone steer me to generator models in the 5-7 KW range (gas) that are known compatible with the Conext XW Pro and the Conext AGS module? > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > > >> Dave Tedeyan January 11, 2022 at 11:34 AM >> Hi all, >> >> Does anyone have a source where you can get a replacement fan for the Conext XW+ inverters? I just talked to Schneider and since this inverter is just out of warranty, they will not send another one, nor sell me one. >> >> I also checked the archives because I thought that someone asked about this before, but that was for the charge controller. A couple people said they had suppliers for the fans, but none specifically were mentioned on that thread. >> >> I appreciate the help! >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49098 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jan 17 16:19:52 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 14:19:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> Hi Jeff The generator is not set up for 2 wire remote. The two options that I know of are the one I sent you which converts the remote to 2 wire. Disadvantage of this one is that it will only attempt the start 1 time. But that generator on gasoline seems to start every time first time. Propane conversion not. Or the factory unit which like this one. https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-32380-Z37-820ZA/p65440.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP1IhOE5lCjwjD81BLmbvGVudBjZaJN_siF2UiT4xbNe9uhGxusSlWxoCEKsQAvD_BwE The advantage of this one is that it follows the inverter ags start programming so you get 3 attempts if memory serves. But you’ve got to figure out the correct ags protocol on the Xw. Hope this helps Jay > On Jan 17, 2022, at 1:38 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > >  Thanks Michael and Jay! > > If the generator is a 2-wire start why is there the need for additional remote start relays? Does the Honda not come fully equipped? And if not is there a generator that does? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > >> Michael Morningstar January 17, 2022 at 12:01 PM >> Conext AGS can be set up for almost any remote start/stop configuration. Honda eu7000i with remote start relays from GeneratorLine. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> Morningstar Electric >> PO Box 1494 >> Mount Shasta, California 96067 >> 530-921-0560 >> CSLB 949635 >> >> >> >> Jeff Clearwater January 17, 2022 at 10:18 AM >> Good Day Wrenches, >> >> So can anyone steer me to generator models in the 5-7 KW range (gas) that are known compatible with the Conext XW Pro and the Conext AGS module? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jeff >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jeff Clearwater >> >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> cell - 413-559-9763 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Jeff Clearwater January 17, 2022 at 10:18 AM >> Good Day Wrenches, >> >> So can anyone steer me to generator models in the 5-7 KW range (gas) that are known compatible with the Conext XW Pro and the Conext AGS module? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jeff >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jeff Clearwater >> >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> cell - 413-559-9763 >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 6175 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49093 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49098 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Mon Jan 17 19:33:07 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 16:33:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> Hello Again All, Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well.  Any experience with know compatibles in propane? txnks jc > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM > Thanks All, > > Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire > start?  We do that all the time with bigger units. > > Thanks again! > > Best, > > jc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jay > January 17, 2022 at 1:19 PM > Hi Jeff > > The generator is not set up for 2 wire remote. > > The two options that I know of are the one I sent you which converts > the remote to 2 wire. > Disadvantage of this one is that it will only attempt the start 1 > time. But that generator on gasoline seems to start every time first > time.  Propane conversion not. > > Or the factory unit which like this one. > > https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-32380-Z37-820ZA/p65440.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP1IhOE5lCjwjD81BLmbvGVudBjZaJN_siF2UiT4xbNe9uhGxusSlWxoCEKsQAvD_BwE > > The advantage of this one is that it follows the inverter ags start > programming so you get 3 attempts if memory serves. > But you’ve got to figure out the correct ags protocol on the Xw. > > Hope this helps > > Jay > > > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 12:38 PM > Thanks Michael and Jay! > > If the generator is a 2-wire start why is there the need for > additional remote start relays?  Does the Honda not come fully > equipped?  And if not is there a generator that does? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Mon Jan 17 19:40:02 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 14:40:02 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] the edge of solar and storage and SolarEdge storage Message-ID: Aloha from Hilo, Have any of you taken the dive with SolarEdge and their storage products? I remember seeing their impressive display with their new storage at the last pre-pandemic solar confab in Salt Lake City in September 2019 and haven't seen much since, Mahalo, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Mon Jan 17 23:11:53 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 21:11:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> I have a question: why so small a generator?  I've always regretted under sizing the genny for battery charging.  Larger gensets are not as fuel hungry as you might think.  I was surprised recently when I did some calcs, and found that a larger genset would actually get slightly better fuel consumption at the proposed load. Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the portable stuff. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > Hello Again All, > > Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well.  Any > experience with know compatibles in propane? > > txnks > > jc > >> Jeff Clearwater >> January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM >> Thanks All, >> >> Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for >> 2-wire start?  We do that all the time with bigger units. >> >> Thanks again! >> >> Best, >> >> jc > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Tue Jan 18 00:08:56 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 21:08:56 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> Message-ID: Hi Ray, Yes indeed I'm used to 10-30 KW gensets as I mostly do larger systems so I've fallen out of experience with smaller sets. I've been specing mostly diesels.  Used to install Onan propane sets years ago but those can be pricey too. This is a customer that has been buying $1000 gensets and starting manually and abusing their lead-acids so I've been after them to get an decent auto-start genset - so even the $4K+ for the Honda (plus the $400 for the remote start module) is a steep change for them.  I installed the $350 Conext AGS module 2 years ago when I built the system but they never got a decent genny that it could trigger. So looking for less than $6K options for them in autostart. It's a very modest load/system - a 6 KW inverter with 32 KWhrs (16 usable) of Surrettes.  3 KW  of solar all mounted in/on a dual axle cargo trailer - they use only fridges and lights but they have a damn sewage pump - which is why we upgraded from a 4 KW Conext to a 6 KW. So yes very open to the low end of the larger sets - any small 8-12 KW diesels our there for reasonable price?  Or propane units that will last?  I'd love to go 1800 rpm for them but within the budget - not sure it's possible?  and of course that is decent wave-form to make the Conext XW Pro happy. Thanks for redirecting - a welcome input for sure! Best, Jeff > Ray > January 17, 2022 at 8:11 PM > > I have a question: why so small a generator?  I've always regretted > under sizing the genny for battery charging.  Larger gensets are not > as fuel hungry as you might think.  I was surprised recently when I > did some calcs, and found that a larger genset would actually get > slightly better fuel consumption at the proposed load. > > Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the > portable stuff. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 4:33 PM > Hello Again All, > > Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well.  Any > experience with know compatibles in propane? > > txnks > > jc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM > Thanks All, > > Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire > start?  We do that all the time with bigger units. > > Thanks again! > > Best, > > jc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jay > January 17, 2022 at 1:19 PM > Hi Jeff > > The generator is not set up for 2 wire remote. > > The two options that I know of are the one I sent you which converts > the remote to 2 wire. > Disadvantage of this one is that it will only attempt the start 1 > time. But that generator on gasoline seems to start every time first > time.  Propane conversion not. > > Or the factory unit which like this one. > > https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-32380-Z37-820ZA/p65440.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP1IhOE5lCjwjD81BLmbvGVudBjZaJN_siF2UiT4xbNe9uhGxusSlWxoCEKsQAvD_BwE > > The advantage of this one is that it follows the inverter ags start > programming so you get 3 attempts if memory serves. > But you’ve got to figure out the correct ags protocol on the Xw. > > Hope this helps > > Jay > > > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 12:38 PM > Thanks Michael and Jay! > > If the generator is a 2-wire start why is there the need for > additional remote start relays?  Does the Honda not come fully > equipped?  And if not is there a generator that does? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will at solarenergy.org Tue Jan 18 07:42:33 2022 From: will at solarenergy.org (Will White) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 07:42:33 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> Message-ID: Jeff, I don't know how much pricing has changed lately but the Kohler 12RES was going for around $5,000 with a two-wire start built-in. That's only $500 more than the smaller generator with a lot more capacity. I don't think they make it in gasoline so you'd have to use propane. Thanks, Will On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 12:09 AM Jeff Clearwater < jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > Hi Ray, > > Yes indeed I'm used to 10-30 KW gensets as I mostly do larger systems so > I've fallen out of experience with smaller sets. I've been specing mostly > diesels. Used to install Onan propane sets years ago but those can be > pricey too. > > This is a customer that has been buying $1000 gensets and starting > manually and abusing their lead-acids so I've been after them to get an > decent auto-start genset - so even the $4K+ for the Honda (plus the $400 > for the remote start module) is a steep change for them. I installed the > $350 Conext AGS module 2 years ago when I built the system but they never > got a decent genny that it could trigger. > > So looking for less than $6K options for them in autostart. > > It's a very modest load/system - a 6 KW inverter with 32 KWhrs (16 usable) > of Surrettes. 3 KW of solar all mounted in/on a dual axle cargo trailer - > they use only fridges and lights but they have a damn sewage pump - which > is why we upgraded from a 4 KW Conext to a 6 KW. > > So yes very open to the low end of the larger sets - any small 8-12 KW > diesels our there for reasonable price? Or propane units that will last? > I'd love to go 1800 rpm for them but within the budget - not sure it's > possible? and of course that is decent wave-form to make the Conext XW Pro > happy. > > Thanks for redirecting - a welcome input for sure! > > Best, > > Jeff > > > Ray > January 17, 2022 at 8:11 PM > > I have a question: why so small a generator? I've always regretted under > sizing the genny for battery charging. Larger gensets are not as fuel > hungry as you might think. I was surprised recently when I did some calcs, > and found that a larger genset would actually get slightly better fuel > consumption at the proposed load. > > Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the portable > stuff. > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 4:33 PM > Hello Again All, > > Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well. Any > experience with know compatibles in propane? > > txnks > > jc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM > Thanks All, > > Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire > start? We do that all the time with bigger units. > > Thanks again! > > Best, > > jc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jay > January 17, 2022 at 1:19 PM > Hi Jeff > > The generator is not set up for 2 wire remote. > > The two options that I know of are the one I sent you which converts the > remote to 2 wire. > Disadvantage of this one is that it will only attempt the start 1 time. > But that generator on gasoline seems to start every time first time. > Propane conversion not. > > Or the factory unit which like this one. > > > https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-32380-Z37-820ZA/p65440.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP1IhOE5lCjwjD81BLmbvGVudBjZaJN_siF2UiT4xbNe9uhGxusSlWxoCEKsQAvD_BwE > > The advantage of this one is that it follows the inverter ags start > programming so you get 3 attempts if memory serves. > But you’ve got to figure out the correct ags protocol on the Xw. > > Hope this helps > > Jay > > > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 12:38 PM > Thanks Michael and Jay! > > If the generator is a 2-wire start why is there the need for additional > remote start relays? Does the Honda not come fully equipped? And if not > is there a generator that does? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Tue Jan 18 10:42:42 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 07:42:42 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> Message-ID: Usually I wouldn't chime in with a single example but we have a single customer with a Kohler 12RES on propane and a Connext XW+. It's worked well for three years and was easy to connect. Eric Smiley Project Manager, North Island E: eric at vecoop.ca T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) C: 250-703-6004 W: viridianenergy.ca On Tue., Jan. 18, 2022, 04:42 Will White, wrote: > Jeff, > > I don't know how much pricing has changed lately but the Kohler 12RES was > going for around $5,000 with a two-wire start built-in. That's only $500 > more than the smaller generator with a lot more capacity. I don't think > they make it in gasoline so you'd have to use propane. > > Thanks, > Will > >> ________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Tue Jan 18 11:17:03 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 11:17:03 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> Message-ID: <9F26E631-D9C8-4CFD-B01C-81B22773C626@swnl.net> Ray I would love to know which larger propane gen set you are suggesting. 1800 or 3600 rpm. Air cooled or water cooled. To my knowledge there are very few L cooled 1800 rpm gen sets in the 12-15kW range. T > On Jan 17, 2022, at 11:11 PM, Ray wrote: > > I have a question: why so small a generator? I've always regretted under sizing the genny for battery charging. Larger gensets are not as fuel hungry as you might think. I was surprised recently when I did some calcs, and found that a larger genset would actually get slightly better fuel consumption at the proposed load. > Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the portable stuff. > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: >> Hello Again All, >> >> Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well. Any experience with know compatibles in propane? >> >> txnks >> >> jc >> >>> Jeff Clearwater January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM >>> Thanks All, >>> >>> Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire start? We do that all the time with bigger units. >>> >>> Thanks again! >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> jc >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Tue Jan 18 12:39:53 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 09:39:53 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> Message-ID: <004aee06-ea9d-6f3a-07de-891fd67cb4e2@villagepowerdesign.com> Wrenches, Thanks All for all the great feedback - I appreciate it.   Yes I've used Kohler 14RES so the 12 could be a great option  - it is in the same price range.  Availability might be another factor! Gens are in short supply it seems right now. I'm still curious what the smallest 1800 rpm diesel option is.  The price flattens out for diesel as you grow bigger but wondering what the entry price is. Thanks again, Jeff > Eric Smiley > January 18, 2022 at 7:42 AM > Usually I wouldn't chime in with a single example but we have a single > customer with a Kohler 12RES on propane and a Connext XW+. > It's worked well for three years and was easy  to connect. > > Eric Smiley > Project Manager, North Island > > E: eric at vecoop.ca > T:  1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) > C:  250-703-6004 > W: viridianenergy.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Will White > January 18, 2022 at 4:42 AM > Jeff, > > I don't know how much pricing has changed lately but the Kohler 12RES > was going for around $5,000 with a two-wire start built-in. That's > only $500 more than the smaller generator with a lot more capacity. I > don't think they make it in gasoline so you'd have to use propane. > > Thanks, > Will > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 9:08 PM > Hi Ray, > > Yes indeed I'm used to 10-30 KW gensets as I mostly do larger systems > so I've fallen out of experience with smaller sets. I've been specing > mostly diesels.  Used to install Onan propane sets years ago but those > can be pricey too. > > This is a customer that has been buying $1000 gensets and starting > manually and abusing their lead-acids so I've been after them to get > an decent auto-start genset - so even the $4K+ for the Honda (plus the > $400 for the remote start module) is a steep change for them.  I > installed the $350 Conext AGS module 2 years ago when I built the > system but they never got a decent genny that it could trigger. > > So looking for less than $6K options for them in autostart. > > It's a very modest load/system - a 6 KW inverter with 32 KWhrs (16 > usable) of Surrettes.  3 KW  of solar all mounted in/on a dual axle > cargo trailer - they use only fridges and lights but they have a damn > sewage pump - which is why we upgraded from a 4 KW Conext to a 6 KW. > > So yes very open to the low end of the larger sets - any small 8-12 KW > diesels our there for reasonable price?  Or propane units that will > last?  I'd love to go 1800 rpm for them but within the budget - not > sure it's possible?  and of course that is decent wave-form to make > the Conext XW Pro happy. > > Thanks for redirecting - a welcome input for sure! > > Best, > > Jeff > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Ray > January 17, 2022 at 8:11 PM > > I have a question: why so small a generator?  I've always regretted > under sizing the genny for battery charging.  Larger gensets are not > as fuel hungry as you might think.  I was surprised recently when I > did some calcs, and found that a larger genset would actually get > slightly better fuel consumption at the proposed load. > > Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the > portable stuff. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 4:33 PM > Hello Again All, > > Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well.  Any > experience with know compatibles in propane? > > txnks > > jc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM > Thanks All, > > Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire > start?  We do that all the time with bigger units. > > Thanks again! > > Best, > > jc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jay > January 17, 2022 at 1:19 PM > Hi Jeff > > The generator is not set up for 2 wire remote. > > The two options that I know of are the one I sent you which converts > the remote to 2 wire. > Disadvantage of this one is that it will only attempt the start 1 > time. But that generator on gasoline seems to start every time first > time.  Propane conversion not. > > Or the factory unit which like this one. > > https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-32380-Z37-820ZA/p65440.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAxJSPBhAoEiwAeO_fP1IhOE5lCjwjD81BLmbvGVudBjZaJN_siF2UiT4xbNe9uhGxusSlWxoCEKsQAvD_BwE > > The advantage of this one is that it follows the inverter ags start > programming so you get 3 attempts if memory serves. > But you’ve got to figure out the correct ags protocol on the Xw. > > Hope this helps > > Jay > > > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 12:38 PM > Thanks Michael and Jay! > > If the generator is a 2-wire start why is there the need for > additional remote start relays?  Does the Honda not come fully > equipped?  And if not is there a generator that does? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Jan 18 13:15:56 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 11:15:56 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <9F26E631-D9C8-4CFD-B01C-81B22773C626@swnl.net> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> <9F26E631-D9C8-4CFD-B01C-81B22773C626@swnl.net> Message-ID: <16e3b0c6-6263-8a8d-a2c0-5f23f46e8fca@solarray.com> I won't go less than double the inverter rating anymore with gensets.  So the Kohler 12 kW is probably the lowest cost, decent match for the XW.  Otherwise you're just over working the genset, which usually aren't designed for continuous duty.  It keeps the voltage stable enough to not disconnect when a surge (like that sewage pump) comes on. As far as 1800 rpm, I don't know anything under 20 kw in propane.  The fuel consumption of a 20kw at 25% is very comparable to the 12kW at 50%.  I've been considering diesel, but just always have been worried about cold starting in the mountains. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 1/18/22 9:17 AM, Tump wrote: > Ray I would love to know which larger propane gen set you are > suggesting. 1800 or 3600 rpm. Air cooled or water cooled.  To my > knowledge there are very few L cooled 1800 rpm gen sets in the 12-15kW > range. T >> On Jan 17, 2022, at 11:11 PM, Ray wrote: >> >> I have a question: why so small a generator? I've always regretted >> under sizing the genny for battery charging.  Larger gensets are not >> as fuel hungry as you might think.  I was surprised recently when I >> did some calcs, and found that a larger genset would actually get >> slightly better fuel consumption at the proposed load. >> >> Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the >> portable stuff. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> 303 505-8760 >> On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: >>> Hello Again All, >>> >>> Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well.  Any >>> experience with know compatibles in propane? >>> >>> txnks >>> >>> jc >>> >>>> Jeff Clearwater >>>> January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM >>>> Thanks All, >>>> >>>> Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for >>>> 2-wire start?  We do that all the time with bigger units. >>>> >>>> Thanks again! >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> jc >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> *Tump >> 3391 at gmail.com* >> *www.SWNL.net* >> >> Solarwinds Northernlights *//* >> */       Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California/**/ >> /**/   207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401 /* >> *//**/Blair "TUMP" May/* >> >> */             ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> /**//**/  NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"/**/ >> /**/ >>               ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> /**/        Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"/* >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Tue Jan 18 13:51:16 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 10:51:16 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: <16e3b0c6-6263-8a8d-a2c0-5f23f46e8fca@solarray.com> References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> <9F26E631-D9C8-4CFD-B01C-81B22773C626@swnl.net> <16e3b0c6-6263-8a8d-a2c0-5f23f46e8fca@solarray.com> Message-ID: I’ve installed Hundreds upon hundreds of diesel generators at elevation here in the mountains of NorCal. Temps down to -15F. None have needed block heaters. For under 40KW, Wrico International. Growers were getting 20-40K hours out of them. They are open frame. MQ Power for an off the shelf enclosed gen-set. Ray is correct in that there aren’t any decent (low rpm, liquid cooled) propane generators. We won’t touch the disposable propane generators like the Kohler RES and Genercrap equivalents. Oh, Wrico does build legit <15kw propane generators…..they cost 14K > On Jan 18, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Ray wrote: > > I won't go less than double the inverter rating anymore with gensets. So the Kohler 12 kW is probably the lowest cost, decent match for the XW. Otherwise you're just over working the genset, which usually aren't designed for continuous duty. It keeps the voltage stable enough to not disconnect when a surge (like that sewage pump) comes on. > > As far as 1800 rpm, I don't know anything under 20 kw in propane. The fuel consumption of a 20kw at 25% is very comparable to the 12kW at 50%. I've been considering diesel, but just always have been worried about cold starting in the mountains. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 1/18/22 9:17 AM, Tump wrote: >> Ray I would love to know which larger propane gen set you are suggesting. 1800 or 3600 rpm. Air cooled or water cooled. To my knowledge there are very few L cooled 1800 rpm gen sets in the 12-15kW range. T >>> On Jan 17, 2022, at 11:11 PM, Ray > wrote: >>> >>> I have a question: why so small a generator? I've always regretted under sizing the genny for battery charging. Larger gensets are not as fuel hungry as you might think. I was surprised recently when I did some calcs, and found that a larger genset would actually get slightly better fuel consumption at the proposed load. >>> >>> Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the portable stuff. >>> >>> Ray Walters >>> Remote Solar >>> 303 505-8760 >>> On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: >>>> Hello Again All, >>>> >>>> Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well. Any experience with know compatibles in propane? >>>> >>>> txnks >>>> >>>> jc >>>> >>>>> Jeff Clearwater January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM >>>>> Thanks All, >>>>> >>>>> Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire start? We do that all the time with bigger units. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again! >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> jc >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >>> Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net >>> Solarwinds Northernlights >>> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >>> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >>> Blair "TUMP" May >>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >>> >>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Tue Jan 18 14:19:06 2022 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MD Electric & Solar) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 11:19:06 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> <9F26E631-D9C8-4CFD-B01C-81B22773C626@swnl.net> <16e3b0c6-6263-8a8d-a2c0-5f23f46e8fca@solarray.com> Message-ID: Also check out wildcat power, built in Kansas. https://wildcatpowergen.com/ On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:51 AM Michael Morningstar < mjmorningstar at gmail.com> wrote: > I’ve installed Hundreds upon hundreds of diesel generators at elevation > here in the mountains of NorCal. Temps down to -15F. None have needed block > heaters. For under 40KW, Wrico International. Growers were getting 20-40K > hours out of them. They are open frame. MQ Power for an off the shelf > enclosed gen-set. Ray is correct in that there aren’t any decent (low rpm, > liquid cooled) propane generators. We won’t touch the disposable propane > generators like the Kohler RES and Genercrap equivalents. Oh, Wrico does > build legit <15kw propane generators…..they cost 14K > > > On Jan 18, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Ray wrote: > > I won't go less than double the inverter rating anymore with gensets. So > the Kohler 12 kW is probably the lowest cost, decent match for the XW. > Otherwise you're just over working the genset, which usually aren't > designed for continuous duty. It keeps the voltage stable enough to not > disconnect when a surge (like that sewage pump) comes on. > > As far as 1800 rpm, I don't know anything under 20 kw in propane. The > fuel consumption of a 20kw at 25% is very comparable to the 12kW at 50%. > I've been considering diesel, but just always have been worried about cold > starting in the mountains. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > > On 1/18/22 9:17 AM, Tump wrote: > > Ray I would love to know which larger propane gen set you are suggesting. > 1800 or 3600 rpm. Air cooled or water cooled. To my knowledge there are > very few L cooled 1800 rpm gen sets in the 12-15kW range. T > > On Jan 17, 2022, at 11:11 PM, Ray wrote: > > I have a question: why so small a generator? I've always regretted under > sizing the genny for battery charging. Larger gensets are not as fuel > hungry as you might think. I was surprised recently when I did some calcs, > and found that a larger genset would actually get slightly better fuel > consumption at the proposed load. > > Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the portable > stuff. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > > On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > > Hello Again All, > > Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well. Any > experience with know compatibles in propane? > > txnks > > jc > > Jeff Clearwater > January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM > Thanks All, > > Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire > start? We do that all the time with bigger units. > > Thanks again! > > Best, > > jc > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > *Michael **Morningstar* > > * Morningstar Electric* > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar Inc. Office: 707-884-1862 Cell: 707-684-0064 www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tump at swnl.net Tue Jan 18 16:17:07 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 16:17:07 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW Pro Compatible Generators? In-Reply-To: References: <13432d32-8931-141a-3962-01a98caa9073@villagepowerdesign.com> <7C241828-68EF-4083-98AC-A273DFA50F1C@gmail.com> <472ccfd2-c3c6-767e-912f-35010bf9e15d@villagepowerdesign.com> <5c1cb5a2-140a-4e6b-9835-2f54a55f1476@villagepowerdesign.com> <05e0666d-6506-67d6-8a9d-4cd476367001@solarray.com> <9F26E631-D9C8-4CFD-B01C-81B22773C626@swnl.net> <16e3b0c6-6263-8a8d-a2c0-5f23f46e8fca@solarray.com> Message-ID: <5CA5584D-4022-4A29-B1F7-0C123BDEBCEA@swnl.net> Ive had more issues w/ propane gen sets here, then diesel, in the cold NE but, having been doing this for 30+ years, we’ve figured work arounds. We usually go w/ propane because the rest of the clients infrastructure is set up for propane. AND I don’t stink of diesel when the client hasn’t change the fuel filters or oil. Carb heaters, indoor enclosures w/ thermostatically controlled louvers, + 0 weight oil. We always used the MQs or the Wackers in Humboldt, Ca. Bullet proof as long as one is aware of the alternator to engine crank bearing life span. > On Jan 18, 2022, at 1:51 PM, Michael Morningstar > wrote: > > I’ve installed Hundreds upon hundreds of diesel generators at elevation here in the mountains of NorCal. Temps down to -15F. None have needed block heaters. For under 40KW, Wrico International. Growers were getting 20-40K hours out of them. They are open frame. MQ Power for an off the shelf enclosed gen-set. Ray is correct in that there aren’t any decent (low rpm, liquid cooled) propane generators. We won’t touch the disposable propane generators like the Kohler RES and Genercrap equivalents. Oh, Wrico does build legit <15kw propane generators…..they cost 14K > > >> On Jan 18, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Ray > wrote: >> >> I won't go less than double the inverter rating anymore with gensets. So the Kohler 12 kW is probably the lowest cost, decent match for the XW. Otherwise you're just over working the genset, which usually aren't designed for continuous duty. It keeps the voltage stable enough to not disconnect when a surge (like that sewage pump) comes on. >> >> As far as 1800 rpm, I don't know anything under 20 kw in propane. The fuel consumption of a 20kw at 25% is very comparable to the 12kW at 50%. I've been considering diesel, but just always have been worried about cold starting in the mountains. >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> 303 505-8760 >> On 1/18/22 9:17 AM, Tump wrote: >>> Ray I would love to know which larger propane gen set you are suggesting. 1800 or 3600 rpm. Air cooled or water cooled. To my knowledge there are very few L cooled 1800 rpm gen sets in the 12-15kW range. T >>>> On Jan 17, 2022, at 11:11 PM, Ray > wrote: >>>> >>>> I have a question: why so small a generator? I've always regretted under sizing the genny for battery charging. Larger gensets are not as fuel hungry as you might think. I was surprised recently when I did some calcs, and found that a larger genset would actually get slightly better fuel consumption at the proposed load. >>>> Plus the larger gensets are usually built to last longer than the portable stuff. >>>> Ray Walters >>>> Remote Solar >>>> 303 505-8760 >>>> On 1/17/22 5:33 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: >>>>> Hello Again All, >>>>> >>>>> Or I'd consider suggesting propane to the customer as well. Any experience with know compatibles in propane? >>>>> >>>>> txnks >>>>> >>>>> jc >>>>> >>>>>> Jeff Clearwater January 17, 2022 at 1:29 PM >>>>>> Thanks All, >>>>>> >>>>>> Aren't there any 5-8 KW gas gennys out there already set up for 2-wire start? We do that all the time with bigger units. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks again! >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> jc >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> >>>> Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net >>>> Solarwinds Northernlights >>>> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >>>> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >>>> Blair "TUMP" May >>>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>>> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >>>> >>>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>>> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > > > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we all will perish as fools." MLK > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed Jan 19 10:28:16 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 08:28:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries Message-ID: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Hey All, For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps - What is the overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing temps? Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? Thanks in advance! Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Wed Jan 19 10:35:23 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 08:35:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries Message-ID: I live in VT and for many years keep all my batteries, as well as tools with batteries (meters, etc) in a canvas bag I schlep into my house every night.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: Dana OrzelDate: Wed, Jan 19, 2022 8:28 AMTo: 'RE-wrenches';Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteriesHey All, For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is the overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing  temps? Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night?  Thanks in advance!   Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003                       dana at solarwork.comIdaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374NABCEP # 051112-136                       www.greatsolarworks.com"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  P Please consider the environment before printing this email.   -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Wed Jan 19 11:39:44 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 16:39:44 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Manufacturers Instructions.. most say “Protect from Freezing n Over Heating “.. like in a trunk. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Dana Orzel wrote:  Hey All, For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is the overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing temps? Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? Thanks in advance! Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex at sunforgellc.com Wed Jan 19 11:58:30 2022 From: alex at sunforgellc.com (Alex MeVay) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 08:58:30 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the tool effectively. Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short and a fire. In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! Alex MeVay Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com From dana at solarwork.com Wed Jan 19 12:08:04 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 10:08:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent in-depth info thanks Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Jan 19, 2022, at 9:58 AM, Alex MeVay wrote: > > Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, > as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the > tool effectively. > > Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If > the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into > the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic > lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. > Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft > short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high > self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short > and a fire. > > In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too > cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented > correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! > > Alex MeVay > > Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From larry at starlightsolar.com Wed Jan 19 12:22:26 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (larrycrutcher) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 10:22:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Wow, spot on Alex. It's breath of fresh air to hear correct info about Li batteries. Far too much misinformation has flooded the web. Just adding a note about temperature. LFP type batteries can be discharged with cell temperatures down to -5°F and will not be harmed if exposed in storage to as low as -40°F for short duration. We recommend all long term storage be at about 50% SoC. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jan 19, 2022, at 9:58 AM, Alex MeVay wrote: Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the tool effectively. Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short and a fire. In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! Alex MeVay Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Jan 19 12:00:01 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 09:00:01 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <6b78ed960d4a5a904e9a7ec109159d2a@mail.gmail.com> Friends: Don’t forget to take your PVC glue into a warm space as well. In the spring we often find our glue has congealed due to freezing. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dana Orzel *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 7:28 AM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries Hey All, For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is the overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing temps? Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? Thanks in advance! Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com * Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Wed Jan 19 18:15:57 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 15:15:57 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues Message-ID: Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? Thanks, Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jan 19 19:11:17 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 17:11:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Vince, Can you provide a line drawing or something for how you have this connected? And I”m presuming that you need/want the extra AC watts vs say putting battery chargers from the radian to the blue ion to transfer energy from one system to the other? Jay Peltz Power > On Jan 19, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Vince McClellan wrote: > > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Jan 19 19:29:55 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:29:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3649F117-6F1D-477E-A016-E3AD502BD39D@mavericksolar.com> Is this system off grid? Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 19, 2022, at 5:16 PM, Vince McClellan wrote: > >  > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Jan 19 19:50:13 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (Scot Arey) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:50:13 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <3649F117-6F1D-477E-A016-E3AD502BD39D@mavericksolar.com> References: , <3649F117-6F1D-477E-A016-E3AD502BD39D@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: <86FE0040-07A1-BA45-9E42-D3312330C8C7@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Wed Jan 19 22:05:45 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 19:05:45 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <4da79f9a-acd2-b771-6d3a-1334e458c213@villagelab.net> References: <4da79f9a-acd2-b771-6d3a-1334e458c213@villagelab.net> Message-ID: Yes what Jay said - need a block diagram with available power flows on this one.  If you've been working with Sol-Ark you probably covered the basics but just for the rest of us to be assured: I assume: 1)  you are using the Radian only as an AC Grid-Tie inverter - no batteries on it? 2) that you are aware that the AC Coupled wattage plus the DC wattage on the Sol-Ark's MPPTs must be within the total allowed for solar generation 3) that you have the AC Coupled output of the Radian connected to the GEN breaker of the Sol-Ark 4) that you have the software set for the GEN breaker to be AC Coupled and have checked all other software items with Sol-Ark needed for AC coupling just as a starting base for us to understand what may be happening. And some of the techs at Sol-Ark are in training - have you talked to the tech lead,  Dustin Douglas?  He's the official Sol-Ark rep on this list but I just saw him at InterSolar and he said he has been just too busy to chime in here much.  I'm scheduled to speak with him soon - I'll see if he can find the time if he hasn't already talked to you. Best, Jeff > Vince McClellan > January 19, 2022 at 3:15 PM > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to > a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue > Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark > inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on > the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As > soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the > Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and > disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are > below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on > the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay > connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian > inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark > inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122   f. (541) 338-8202 > > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient > please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or > attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Wed Jan 19 23:20:18 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (Pieter Huebner) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 22:20:18 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> Vince, For what it is worth: We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. Pieter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vince McClellan Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? Thanks, Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Wed Jan 19 23:48:28 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 20:48:28 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As per Jay's request attached is the as built schematic for this project. Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:20 PM jay wrote: > Hi Vince, > > Can you provide a line drawing or something for how you have this > connected? > > And I”m presuming that you need/want the extra AC watts vs say putting > battery chargers from the radian to the blue ion to transfer energy from > one system to the other? > > Jay > > Peltz Power > > > > On Jan 19, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Vince McClellan > wrote: > > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a > new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion > batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept > the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the > new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is > significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters > freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter > even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge > threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the > Radian will connect and stay connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. > Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are > still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 4075 Butler Electrical as built.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 575689 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Wed Jan 19 23:49:51 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 20:49:51 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <3649F117-6F1D-477E-A016-E3AD502BD39D@mavericksolar.com> References: <3649F117-6F1D-477E-A016-E3AD502BD39D@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: It's a hybrid system with the Blue Ion batteries as backup when the utility is down. Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:30 PM Maverick Brown wrote: > Is this system off grid? > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Jan 19, 2022, at 5:16 PM, Vince McClellan > wrote: > >  > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a > new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion > batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept > the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the > new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is > significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters > freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter > even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge > threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the > Radian will connect and stay connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. > Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are > still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Thu Jan 20 00:04:09 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 21:04:09 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: <4da79f9a-acd2-b771-6d3a-1334e458c213@villagelab.net> Message-ID: Hi Jeff Here's the skinny on your questions. 1) you are using the Radian only as an AC Grid-Tie inverter - no batteries on it? *The Radian inverter has a bank of AGM Lead Acid Batteries on it. * 2) that you are aware that the AC Coupled wattage plus the DC wattage on the Sol-Ark's MPPTs must be within the total allowed for solar generation *Yes, we are aware of the limits of the inverters. * 3) that you have the AC Coupled output of the Radian connected to the GEN breaker of the Sol-Ark *This is the weird part of this system. Because of the client's needs/wants we are treating the Radian inverter as the grid and it is tied into the grid breaker on the Sol-Arks. Lesson learned here is never let the client drive the design. * 4) that you have the software set for the GEN breaker to be AC Coupled and have checked all other software items with Sol-Ark needed for AC coupling *We have the Sol-Arks set as AC coupled, but on the* grid breaker. *We cleared this design with Sol-Ark tech support by sending them the schematic before moving ahead with the design. They didn't see any issue with the design before we built it. * *Please see the as-built schematic attached to the previous email. * *Thanks for looking this over. I feel like there must be something that we and Sol-Ark are missing. * Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 7:05 PM Jeff Clearwater < jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > Yes what Jay said - need a block diagram with available power flows on > this one. If you've been working with Sol-Ark you probably covered the > basics but just for the rest of us to be assured: > > I assume: > > 1) you are using the Radian only as an AC Grid-Tie inverter - no > batteries on it? > 2) that you are aware that the AC Coupled wattage plus the DC wattage on > the Sol-Ark's MPPTs must be within the total allowed for solar generation > 3) that you have the AC Coupled output of the Radian connected to the GEN > breaker of the Sol-Ark > 4) that you have the software set for the GEN breaker to be AC Coupled and > have checked all other software items with Sol-Ark needed for AC coupling > > just as a starting base for us to understand what may be happening. > > And some of the techs at Sol-Ark are in training - have you talked to the > tech lead, Dustin Douglas? He's the official Sol-Ark rep on this list but > I just saw him at InterSolar and he said he has been just too busy to chime > in here much. I'm scheduled to speak with him soon - I'll see if he can > find the time if he hasn't already talked to you. > > > Best, > > Jeff > > > Vince McClellan > January 19, 2022 at 3:15 PM > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a > new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion > batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept > the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the > new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is > significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters > freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter > even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge > threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the > Radian will connect and stay connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. > Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are > still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 <%28541%29%20485-8122> f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Thu Jan 20 00:15:59 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 21:15:59 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: Thanks Pieter We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner < pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: > Vince, For what it is worth: > > We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark > inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark > inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge > voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with > their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For > the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort > to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the > Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an > existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system > using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar > capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), > but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted > an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are > related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. > > Pieter > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Vince McClellan > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > > > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a > new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion > batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept > the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the > new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is > significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters > freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter > even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge > threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the > Radian will connect and stay connected. > > > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. > Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are > still experiencing the same problem. > > > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > > > Thanks, > > > Vince McClellan > > Energy Design > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Jan 20 00:49:33 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2022 21:49:33 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <890d297e-b444-c6fc-232a-ef688e6b1ea4@psln.com> We've sacrificed a small-medium ice chest to be the battery box for our tool batteries.  affixed to the side  of the ice chest is a small 7 watt  reptile heat pad with the cord sneaking out the lid and plugged in overnight.  You don't want the pad on the bottom it'll actually get the battery setting on it too warm.             At the job as we need them, them come out warm and by the time they are discharged the temp has come up to above freezing for charging, or put it back in the ice chest.  If its not plugged-in in the truck, don't forget to load the battery ice chest before the morning launch to work. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 1/19/2022 7:28 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > Hey All, > > For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is > the overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck > overnight, needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? > > I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never > seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. > > What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing  temps? > > Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? > > Thanks in advance! > > Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com* > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > > _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" ___ > > *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 20 08:08:31 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 06:08:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: Hi Vince, That is a very complex design, so many breaker interlocks but I think I understand the intent! When you say that you have programmed the Radian for AC coupling, that really isn't programming it to be AC coupled on its AC input side, its saying that it can AC couple inverters on its AC load side. Remember the Radian is a grid forming inverter on the load side (controls voltage and freq) and a current source on the grid input (does not control voltage and freq). How you are connecting solar modules to the Radian will tell you how to set this setting. If you are using charge controllers, you don't want AC coupling here. Look closely at the grid settings in the Radian, this will control how it will interact with the Sol-Arks at its input. Its looking at the voltage, frequency, impedance etc. on the input and deciding if it should push current. Maybe there is a setting that needs opened up a bit? Be cautious here. Anyway, here is what I would try after looking closely at the grid settings in the Radian: Measure DC buss voltage (Blue Ion voltage) throughout this process. Do you see any abrupt changes in the DC buss voltage? At what SOC? Do you have solid communication between Sol-Ark and Blue Ion (Namaka box)? Do you ever see it drop and go to voltage mode instead of SOC communication mode? Does the same issue occur if you use voltage control on the Sol-Ark? Turn on your DC coupling, and slowly ramp up the AC coupled current (sell current setting on the Radian). Does any AC coupled current trip it off? I suspect if the sell current is lower than the load current, there should be no freq/watt shift. If you discharge the batteries deeply, does this make a difference? Since you have an open Gen Input Breaker, why not put the Radian GT connection on it? Do you really want the Radian to be able to discharge the Blue Ion battery bank at night? Customer designs are tough, Good Luck! On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM Vince McClellan < vince at solarenergydesign.com> wrote: > Thanks Pieter > We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our > freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems > to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to > the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue > Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power > from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the > MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt > function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner < > pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: > >> Vince, For what it is worth: >> >> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark >> inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark >> inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge >> voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with >> their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For >> the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort >> to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the >> Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an >> existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system >> using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar >> capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), >> but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted >> an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are >> related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. >> >> Pieter >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Vince McClellan >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >> >> >> >> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >> >> >> >> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a >> new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion >> batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept >> the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the >> new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is >> significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters >> freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter >> even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge >> threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the >> Radian will connect and stay connected. >> >> >> >> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this >> system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt >> kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. >> Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are >> still experiencing the same problem. >> >> >> >> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our >> troubleshooting efforts next? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Vince McClellan >> >> Energy Design >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please >> delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of >> this email is strictly prohibited. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Thu Jan 20 09:41:47 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (Pieter Huebner) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 08:41:47 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: <003501d80e0b$da8c8160$8fa58420$@offgridenterprises.org> Vince, Although you have an AC bussed connection, the issue may not be the opposite as ours. In Our case the battery buss voltage goes high when the solar array is enabled. If you are also experiencing DC buss excursions you can trigger frequency shifting. If you haven't already done so, I suggest that you closely monitor the battery voltage when the solar array is charging both with and without the Radian AC bussing connected. Pieter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vince McClellan Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues Thanks Pieter We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner > wrote: Vince, For what it is worth: We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. Pieter From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Vince McClellan Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? Thanks, Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Jan 20 11:32:23 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:32:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: What lithium battery powered tool brand that has the best performance in freezing weather? My 10 year old+ Makita tool set isn't nearly as powerful as some newer tools. Even with new batteries, the tools have sufficient power in cold weather. What is the best brand for cold weather operation? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-01-19 11:58, Alex MeVay wrote: > Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, > as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the > tool effectively. > > Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If > the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into > the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic > lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. > Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft > short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high > self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short > and a fire. > > In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too > cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented > correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! > > Alex MeVay > > Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 20 09:26:54 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 07:26:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Vince It appears to me ( might be im not clear on what’s happening) that the radian is powering a backed up load. You’re calling it AC coupled? What if you connected the sol ark to the radian ac input for battery charging. Then set the grid/generator input support of the radian so it doesn’t overwhelm the input but powers the loads. It would be connected just like a generator or grid, but not AC coupled. You shouldn’t have any dropouts. Jay Peltz power. > On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > >  > Hi Vince, > That is a very complex design, so many breaker interlocks but I think I understand the intent! > > When you say that you have programmed the Radian for AC coupling, that really isn't programming it to be AC coupled on its AC input side, its saying that it can AC couple inverters on its AC load side. Remember the Radian is a grid forming inverter on the load side (controls voltage and freq) and a current source on the grid input (does not control voltage and freq). How you are connecting solar modules to the Radian will tell you how to set this setting. If you are using charge controllers, you don't want AC coupling here. > > Look closely at the grid settings in the Radian, this will control how it will interact with the Sol-Arks at its input. Its looking at the voltage, frequency, impedance etc. on the input and deciding if it should push current. Maybe there is a setting that needs opened up a bit? Be cautious here. > > Anyway, here is what I would try after looking closely at the grid settings in the Radian: > > Measure DC buss voltage (Blue Ion voltage) throughout this process. Do you see any abrupt changes in the DC buss voltage? At what SOC? Do you have solid communication between Sol-Ark and Blue Ion (Namaka box)? Do you ever see it drop and go to voltage mode instead of SOC communication mode? Does the same issue occur if you use voltage control on the Sol-Ark? > > Turn on your DC coupling, and slowly ramp up the AC coupled current (sell current setting on the Radian). Does any AC coupled current trip it off? I suspect if the sell current is lower than the load current, there should be no freq/watt shift. > If you discharge the batteries deeply, does this make a difference? > Since you have an open Gen Input Breaker, why not put the Radian GT connection on it? > Do you really want the Radian to be able to discharge the Blue Ion battery bank at night? > > Customer designs are tough, Good Luck! > >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM Vince McClellan wrote: >> Thanks Pieter >> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner wrote: >>> Vince, For what it is worth: >>> >>> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. >>> >>> Pieter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vince McClellan >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM >>> To: RE-wrenches >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >>> >>> >>> >>> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >>> >>> >>> >>> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. >>> >>> >>> >>> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> >>> Vince McClellan >>> >>> Energy Design >>> >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> >>> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >>> >>> >>> >>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Jan 20 12:24:32 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:24:32 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <001901d80e22$96f27a60$c4d76f20$@solarwork.com> Really Happy with the Milwaukee M18 volt series. Various sized batteries available, & there have to be 150+ tools in the M18 series. I got into the Milwaukee 28 volt originally & what a nightmare; too heavy, replacement batteries were $$$ & life span on the battery was not good. I have been told the Milwaukee power tools have steel gears not plastic. The impacts are bomber solid. So far cold weather operation is good, no noticeable deficiencies. & I have charged them very cold so the battery charger BM is fairly smart/sensitive. I have noticed if really cold the charger says "broken Battery" I Loved the small cooler & reptile heater idea! Great idea! Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  Please consider the environment before printing this email. -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:32 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries What lithium battery powered tool brand that has the best performance in freezing weather? My 10 year old+ Makita tool set isn't nearly as powerful as some newer tools. Even with new batteries, the tools have sufficient power in cold weather. What is the best brand for cold weather operation? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-01-19 11:58, Alex MeVay wrote: > Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, > as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the > tool effectively. > > Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If > the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into > the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic > lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. > Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft > short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high > self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short > and a fire. > > In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too > cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented > correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! > > Alex MeVay > > Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Jan 20 12:41:54 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:41:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: <001901d80e22$96f27a60$c4d76f20$@solarwork.com> References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> <001901d80e22$96f27a60$c4d76f20$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: In my experience, the chucks on their hammer drills do not last. They tend to seize up. Otherwise, we are happy with Milwaukee. Jason Szumlanski On Thu, Jan 20, 2022, 12:24 PM Dana Orzel wrote: > Really Happy with the Milwaukee M18 volt series. Various sized batteries > available, & there have to be 150+ tools in the M18 series. I got into the > Milwaukee 28 volt originally & what a nightmare; too heavy, replacement > batteries were $$$ & life span on the battery was not good. > > I have been told the Milwaukee power tools have steel gears not plastic. > The impacts are bomber solid. > > So far cold weather operation is good, no noticeable deficiencies. & I > have charged them very cold so the battery charger BM is fairly > smart/sensitive. I have noticed if really cold the charger says "broken > Battery" > > I Loved the small cooler & reptile heater idea! Great idea! > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >  Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:32 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries > > What lithium battery powered tool brand that has the best performance in > freezing weather? My 10 year old+ Makita tool set isn't nearly as powerful > as some newer tools. Even with new batteries, the tools have sufficient > power in cold weather. > > What is the best brand for cold weather operation? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License > 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > --- > > > On 2022-01-19 11:58, Alex MeVay wrote: > > Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, > > as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the > > tool effectively. > > > > Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If > > the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into > > the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic > > lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. > > Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft > > short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high > > self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short > > and a fire. > > > > In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too > > cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented > > correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! > > > > Alex MeVay > > > > Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Thu Jan 20 12:52:44 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 09:52:44 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: <5AF19894-0EDC-404D-B676-FD78E8CAA83A@me.com> Greetings Vince, Yes, this is quite the system, looks (mostly) fun. To elaborate/inquire slightly more on Pieter’s note about the battery bus voltage being high. I’ve done a few dozen Blue Ion jobs myself and multiple times have observed the bus going straight to 55.2vdc absorb voltage after incidents where I had to do a cold start when the battery bank was depleted and the client did not get to adding charge before the system shut down (manual start gennies in the winter). On two of these systems I observed about a minute or more of lag time where the voltage pegs straight to 55.2 before it “self corrects” and drops down to the true battery voltage of around 45 vdc or so. In my instances it was on the Outback’s bus side and this odd behavior with the FM80 though the Blue Ion’s BMU was driving this behavior and the FM80 was just doing what it’s told. In each instance I was just moments away from getting that fun stomach tickle thinking something is extremely wrong but then the voltage quickly drops by a delta of about 10vdc and the glitch disappears, everything back to “normal”. Surely you’ve observed this happening in a comfortable SOC somewhere in the middle of being full and still needing a reasonable charge? If you leave the Radian out of the loop can you observe that the entire DC coupled array going into the Solark acts as it should? About how much current is going into each BI cabinet when this happens? Can you reduce PV current enough to test one BI cabinet at a time to rule out that it may be one of the BMU’s stuck at the high voltage I’ve experienced? Truthfully Blue Planet’s hardware is the last thing I typically suspect but perhaps it’s a BMU. Please let us know what you eventually find. The client is lucky to have you! Nick > On Jan 19, 2022, at 9:15 PM, Vince McClellan wrote: > > Thanks Pieter > We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner > wrote: > Vince, For what it is worth: > > We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. > > Pieter > > > > > > > > From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Vince McClellan > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > > > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. > > > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. > > > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Vince McClellan > > Energy Design > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Thu Jan 20 13:00:06 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:00:06 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <5AF19894-0EDC-404D-B676-FD78E8CAA83A@me.com> References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> <5AF19894-0EDC-404D-B676-FD78E8CAA83A@me.com> Message-ID: <39ED3D95-AFCD-4D3B-9089-34E32420F63C@me.com> Sorry, I guess my question should have been are the Solarks adhering to the 26.7 AAC inverter output limits? A balanced amount of DC current is going into each cabinet when this happens? Nick Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? Thanks, Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > On Jan 20, 2022, at 9:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > > Greetings Vince, > > Yes, this is quite the system, looks (mostly) fun. To elaborate/inquire slightly more on Pieter’s note about the battery bus voltage being high. I’ve done a few dozen Blue Ion jobs myself and multiple times have observed the bus going straight to 55.2vdc absorb voltage after incidents where I had to do a cold start when the battery bank was depleted and the client did not get to adding charge before the system shut down (manual start gennies in the winter). On two of these systems I observed about a minute or more of lag time where the voltage pegs straight to 55.2 before it “self corrects” and drops down to the true battery voltage of around 45 vdc or so. In my instances it was on the Outback’s bus side and this odd behavior with the FM80 though the Blue Ion’s BMU was driving this behavior and the FM80 was just doing what it’s told. In each instance I was just moments away from getting that fun stomach tickle thinking something is extremely wrong but then the voltage quickly drops by a delta of about 10vdc and the glitch disappears, everything back to “normal”. > > Surely you’ve observed this happening in a comfortable SOC somewhere in the middle of being full and still needing a reasonable charge? > > If you leave the Radian out of the loop can you observe that the entire DC coupled array going into the Solark acts as it should? > > About how much current is going into each BI cabinet when this happens? > > Can you reduce PV current enough to test one BI cabinet at a time to rule out that it may be one of the BMU’s stuck at the high voltage I’ve experienced? > > Truthfully Blue Planet’s hardware is the last thing I typically suspect but perhaps it’s a BMU. Please let us know what you eventually find. The client is lucky to have you! > > Nick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dahlsolar at gmail.com Thu Jan 20 13:16:06 2022 From: dahlsolar at gmail.com (Jesse Dahl) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:16:06 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I live in far northern MN (it was -32F this morning) my shop is well insulated but I only heat when I working in there (wood heat). It was 22F in the shop this morning. My batteries give the “cold temp” light when I try charge them even when as warm as 20F. So I need to bring my batteries in at night. It doesn’t take to long to warm them up if I leave them out there at night. Not sure what the magic temp is on them. Jesse Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:39 AM, Foxfire Energy wrote: > >  Manufacturers Instructions.. most say “Protect from Freezing n Over Heating “.. like in a trunk. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: >>> >>  >> Hey All, >> >> For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is the overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? >> I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. >> >> What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing temps? >> >> Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Thu Jan 20 13:32:23 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:32:23 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <003501d80e0b$da8c8160$8fa58420$@offgridenterprises.org> References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> <003501d80e0b$da8c8160$8fa58420$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: Thanks again for your input. I'll check the Blue Ion battery voltage the next time on site with and without the Radian AC coupled. I'm also going to check in with Sol-Ark and see if the inverters respond to high battery voltage when they are in closed loop with the BMS on the battery. I've always assumed that the Sol-Ark's software just responds to the SOC from the BMS. That would be a possible connection between the freq-watt function on the Sol-Ark and DC power from the solar array. I was really scratching my head on where the possible connection could be between incoming DC power and the freq-watt function on the Sol-Arks. Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 6:41 AM Pieter Huebner < pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: > Vince, Although you have an AC bussed connection, the issue may not be the > opposite as ours. In Our case the battery buss voltage goes high when the > solar array is enabled. If you are also experiencing DC buss excursions you > can trigger frequency shifting. If you haven't already done so, I suggest > that you closely monitor the battery voltage when the solar array is > charging both with and without the Radian AC bussing connected. > > Pieter > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Vince McClellan > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:16 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > > > Thanks Pieter > > We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our > freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems > to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to > the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue > Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power > from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the > MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt > function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. > > > Vince McClellan > > Energy Design > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner < > pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: > > Vince, For what it is worth: > > We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark > inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark > inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge > voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with > their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For > the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort > to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the > Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an > existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system > using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar > capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), > but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted > an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are > related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. > > Pieter > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Vince McClellan > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > > > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a > new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion > batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept > the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the > new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is > significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters > freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter > even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge > threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the > Radian will connect and stay connected. > > > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. > Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are > still experiencing the same problem. > > > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > > > Thanks, > > > Vince McClellan > > Energy Design > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Thu Jan 20 14:25:00 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:25:00 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> <003501d80e0b$da8c8160$8fa58420$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: <143f74ce-42ec-bbe2-e56a-addd91d01eba@villagepowerdesign.com> Hi Vince and All, Loving this insightful discussion on the technical subtleties of this set-up - but I'm wondering if I'm missing the Why?  What is this design trying to accomplish?  What were the overriding design drivers? Is it a case of incremental design where one system needed to grow but a separate system was added?  Are they physically close to each other? Are you trying to leverage the outputs so the loads have the advantage of both outputs simultaneously? If you solve this one AC coupling cut-out issue - is the system then optimized and exactly what does that optimization accomplish? I understand if you don't want to take the time to explain all this but I'm just curious - is there a useful architecture out there that I'm missing? Can the PV and battery resources be combined into one system? - (perhaps by selling the AGMs and Radian and buying more lithium and Sol-Arks?) Seems like control and fine tuning and troubleshooting ongoing would be a hassle with such complexity - but then again we sometimes work with what we got! As Nick said - they are lucky to have you!  Question is how to best serve that design! Best, Jeff > Vince McClellan > January 20, 2022 at 10:32 AM > Thanks again for your input. I'll check the Blue Ion battery voltage > the next time on site with and without the Radian AC coupled. I'm also > going to check in with Sol-Ark and see if the inverters respond to > high battery  voltage when they are in closed loop with the BMS on the > battery. I've always assumed that the Sol-Ark's software just responds > to the SOC from the BMS. > That would be a possible connection between the freq-watt function on > the Sol-Ark and DC power from the solar array. I was really scratching > my head on where the possible connection could be between incoming DC > power and the freq-watt function on the Sol-Arks. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122   f. (541) 338-8202 > > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient > please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or > attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Pieter Huebner > January 20, 2022 at 6:41 AM > > Vince, Although you have an AC bussed connection, the issue may not be > the opposite as ours. In Our case the battery buss voltage goes high > when the solar array is enabled. If you are also experiencing DC buss > excursions you can trigger frequency shifting. If you haven't already > done so, I suggest that you closely monitor the battery voltage when > the solar array is charging both with and without the Radian AC > bussing connected. > > Pieter > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Vince McClellan > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:16 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > Thanks Pieter > > We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. > Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark > inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array > that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be > actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is > inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on > on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the > two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the > Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. > > > Vince McClellan > > Energy Design > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > p. (541) 485-8122   f. (541) 338-8202 > > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient > please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or > attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner > > > wrote: > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Vince McClellan > January 19, 2022 at 9:15 PM > Thanks Pieter > We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. > Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark > inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array > that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be > actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is > inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on > on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the > two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the > Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122   f. (541) 338-8202 > > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient > please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or > attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Pieter Huebner > January 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM > > Vince, For what it is worth: > > We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark > inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel > Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the > battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been > outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but > not solved the issue.  For the sites that we currently have deployed > for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage > set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS > shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were > planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K > inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% > off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a > different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed > Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to > the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. > > Pieter > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Vince McClellan > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to > a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue > Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark > inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on > the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As > soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the > Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and > disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are > below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on > the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay > connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian > inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark > inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > > Vince McClellan > > Energy Design > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > p. (541) 485-8122   f. (541) 338-8202 > > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient > please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or > attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Vince McClellan > January 19, 2022 at 3:15 PM > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to > a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue > Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark > inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on > the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As > soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the > Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and > disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are > below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on > the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay > connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian > inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark > inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122   f. (541) 338-8202 > > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient > please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or > attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 191320 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Thu Jan 20 15:01:05 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:01:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jay Thanks for taking the time to read the schematic and look into the potential issues. Never again will I let a client drive the design on a project. My client is a high level architect with an amazing attention to detail and he drove the design by doing his own research and coming back to us with why don't we do this thing so that... fill in the details. We did look into the interaction between the Radian inverter and the Sol-Ark inverters on the AC side before we built the system. Tech support thought that the Radian would see the power on the homes wiring as the grid and "sell" back to the Sol-Arks. However the question that you bring up has been a question in my mind this whole time. The reason that we aren't connecting the Radian's AC output on the gen breakers on the Sol-Ark is complicated. Basically the techs at Sol-Ark told us that it wouldn't work properly with what we are trying to accomplish. Our client also wanted to be able to charge the Radian's batteries off of the Sol-Arks power in off grid mode for instance. The Blue Ion's do seem to have good data connection to the Sol-Ark inverters though the Namaka, but I have seen the Sol-Arks display battery voltage instead of SOC for brief moments of time on the Sol-Ark display. I will check the Blue Ion battery voltage to check for a voltage spike from the solar arrays DC input the next time I'm on site as several folks have mentioned. These are all great questions and I really appreciate all the thought that has gone into dissecting this issue. Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM Jay wrote: > Hi Vince > > It appears to me ( might be im not clear on what’s happening) that the > radian is powering a backed up load. > You’re calling it AC coupled? > > What if you connected the sol ark to the radian ac input for battery > charging. Then set the grid/generator input support of the radian so it > doesn’t overwhelm the input but powers the loads. > > It would be connected just like a generator or grid, but not AC coupled. > You shouldn’t have any dropouts. > > Jay > > Peltz power. > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > >  > Hi Vince, > That is a very complex design, so many breaker interlocks but I think I > understand the intent! > > When you say that you have programmed the Radian for AC coupling, that > really isn't programming it to be AC coupled on its AC input side, its > saying that it can AC couple inverters on its AC load side. Remember the > Radian is a grid forming inverter on the load side (controls voltage and > freq) and a current source on the grid input (does not control voltage and > freq). How you are connecting solar modules to the Radian will tell you > how to set this setting. If you are using charge controllers, you don't > want AC coupling here. > > Look closely at the grid settings in the Radian, this will control how it > will interact with the Sol-Arks at its input. Its looking at the voltage, > frequency, impedance etc. on the input and deciding if it should push > current. Maybe there is a setting that needs opened up a bit? Be cautious > here. > > Anyway, here is what I would try after looking closely at the grid > settings in the Radian: > > Measure DC buss voltage (Blue Ion voltage) throughout this process. Do > you see any abrupt changes in the DC buss voltage? At what SOC? Do you > have solid communication between Sol-Ark and Blue Ion (Namaka box)? Do you > ever see it drop and go to voltage mode instead of SOC communication mode? > Does the same issue occur if you use voltage control on the Sol-Ark? > > Turn on your DC coupling, and slowly ramp up the AC coupled current (sell > current setting on the Radian). Does any AC coupled current trip it off? > I suspect if the sell current is lower than the load current, there should > be no freq/watt shift. > If you discharge the batteries deeply, does this make a difference? > Since you have an open Gen Input Breaker, why not put the Radian GT > connection on it? > Do you really want the Radian to be able to discharge the Blue Ion battery > bank at night? > > Customer designs are tough, Good Luck! > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM Vince McClellan < > vince at solarenergydesign.com> wrote: > >> Thanks Pieter >> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our >> freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems >> to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to >> the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue >> Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power >> from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the >> MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt >> function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please >> delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of >> this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner < >> pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: >> >>> Vince, For what it is worth: >>> >>> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark >>> inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark >>> inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge >>> voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with >>> their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For >>> the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort >>> to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the >>> Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an >>> existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system >>> using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar >>> capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), >>> but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted >>> an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are >>> related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. >>> >>> Pieter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >>> Behalf Of *Vince McClellan >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >>> >>> >>> >>> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >>> >>> >>> >>> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a >>> new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion >>> batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept >>> the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the >>> new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is >>> significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters >>> freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter >>> even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge >>> threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the >>> Radian will connect and stay connected. >>> >>> >>> >>> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this >>> system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt >>> kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. >>> Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are >>> still experiencing the same problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our >>> troubleshooting efforts next? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> >>> Vince McClellan >>> >>> Energy Design >>> >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> >>> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >>> >>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient >>> please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or >>> attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ray at solarray.com Thu Jan 20 15:02:57 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:02:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: <001901d80e22$96f27a60$c4d76f20$@solarwork.com> References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> <001901d80e22$96f27a60$c4d76f20$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: I've had great luck with the Milwaukee M18; I almost never bring in my tool batteries anymore, unless its going to be below 0. Love the cordless shop vac. I also use Ryobi, for my less used tools (ie.circular saw) and they have excellent performance for the money.  Not quite as temperature forgiving though. As for Milwaukee chucks jamming up;  I only had that happen once after a bunch of hammer drilling in Haiti.  Scrounged all over the village for the special star keys to take apart the chuck, but it just needed to be cleaned. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 1/20/22 10:24 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: > Really Happy with the Milwaukee M18 volt series. Various sized batteries available, & there have to be 150+ tools in the M18 series. I got into the Milwaukee 28 volt originally & what a nightmare; too heavy, replacement batteries were $$$ & life span on the battery was not good. > > I have been told the Milwaukee power tools have steel gears not plastic. The impacts are bomber solid. > > So far cold weather operation is good, no noticeable deficiencies. & I have charged them very cold so the battery charger BM is fairly smart/sensitive. I have noticed if really cold the charger says "broken Battery" > > I Loved the small cooler & reptile heater idea! Great idea! > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >  Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:32 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries > > What lithium battery powered tool brand that has the best performance in freezing weather? My 10 year old+ Makita tool set isn't nearly as powerful as some newer tools. Even with new batteries, the tools have sufficient power in cold weather. > > What is the best brand for cold weather operation? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > --- > > > On 2022-01-19 11:58, Alex MeVay wrote: >> Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, >> as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the >> tool effectively. >> >> Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If >> the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into >> the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic >> lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. >> Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft >> short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high >> self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short >> and a fire. >> >> In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too >> cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented >> correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! >> >> Alex MeVay >> >> Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From stuart at besolar.bm Thu Jan 20 15:26:07 2022 From: stuart at besolar.bm (Stuart Kriendler) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:26:07 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Insure feedback Message-ID: Good day Wrenches, Has anyone had any experience with Solar Insure and their 30 year parts and labour warranty program? https://www.solarinsure.com/ We are considering including this product/service in our contracts to continue to raise the bar for quality service and peace of mind. Apparently Solar Insure has been around for 15 years but I haven't spoken to many installers with direct experience with them. Looking forward to hearing any feedback, good or bad, especially any red flags. Healthiest regards, Stuart -- *Stuart Kriendler | Managing Director * 48 St. Johns Road, Pembroke, HM 07, Bermuda C: 1.441.599.2105 <(441)%20599-2105> | O: 1.441.279.5907 <(441)%20279-5907> | www.BEsolar.bm [image: BE Solar.bm] *OUR VISION: An efficient Bermuda powered by affordable renewable energy. * *OUR MISSION: To provide the highest quality energy solutions accessible to all. * The information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly private and confidential and is intended solely for the i ndividual(s) or entity named above in the To and Copy fields. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify us immediately. If you are not an intended recipient, please be advised that any use, including viewing, printing, disseminating, distributing, copying and re-transmitting of the information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2017-12-20 at 11.46.59 AM.png Type: image/png Size: 30112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tump at swnl.net Thu Jan 20 16:03:06 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:03:06 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <143f74ce-42ec-bbe2-e56a-addd91d01eba@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> <003501d80e0b$da8c8160$8fa58420$@offgridenterprises.org> <143f74ce-42ec-bbe2-e56a-addd91d01eba@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: <8A985172-605D-4C8C-858E-0C1D3C358084@swnl.net> I must agree spent quite a bit of time trying to figure WTF over. Then i saw it was an architect design. He must have been paying himself cause I have no idea why someone would want to try to integrate all this stuff while the tech support had nothing to say but; "that won’t work”. Hope for your sake it was T&M. T > On Jan 20, 2022, at 2:25 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > > Hi Vince and All, > > Loving this insightful discussion on the technical subtleties of this set-up - but I'm wondering if I'm missing the Why? What is this design trying to accomplish? What were the overriding design drivers? > > Is it a case of incremental design where one system needed to grow but a separate system was added? Are they physically close to each other? > > Are you trying to leverage the outputs so the loads have the advantage of both outputs simultaneously? > > If you solve this one AC coupling cut-out issue - is the system then optimized and exactly what does that optimization accomplish? > > I understand if you don't want to take the time to explain all this but I'm just curious - is there a useful architecture out there that I'm missing? > > Can the PV and battery resources be combined into one system? - (perhaps by selling the AGMs and Radian and buying more lithium and Sol-Arks?) > > Seems like control and fine tuning and troubleshooting ongoing would be a hassle with such complexity - but then again we sometimes work with what we got! > > As Nick said - they are lucky to have you! Question is how to best serve that design! > > Best, > > Jeff >> Vince McClellan January 20, 2022 at 10:32 AM >> Thanks again for your input. I'll check the Blue Ion battery voltage the next time on site with and without the Radian AC coupled. I'm also going to check in with Sol-Ark and see if the inverters respond to high battery voltage when they are in closed loop with the BMS on the battery. I've always assumed that the Sol-Ark's software just responds to the SOC from the BMS. >> That would be a possible connection between the freq-watt function on the Sol-Ark and DC power from the solar array. I was really scratching my head on where the possible connection could be between incoming DC power and the freq-watt function on the Sol-Arks. >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Pieter Huebner January 20, 2022 at 6:41 AM >> Vince, Although you have an AC bussed connection, the issue may not be the opposite as ours. In Our case the battery buss voltage goes high when the solar array is enabled. If you are also experiencing DC buss excursions you can trigger frequency shifting. If you haven't already done so, I suggest that you closely monitor the battery voltage when the solar array is charging both with and without the Radian AC bussing connected. >> Pieter >> >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vince McClellan >> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:16 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >> >> Thanks Pieter >> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner > wrote: >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Vince McClellan January 19, 2022 at 9:15 PM >> Thanks Pieter >> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Pieter Huebner January 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM >> Vince, For what it is worth: >> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. >> Pieter >> >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vince McClellan >> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >> >> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >> >> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. >> >> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. >> >> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Vince McClellan January 19, 2022 at 3:15 PM >> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >> >> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. >> >> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. >> >> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Thu Jan 20 16:12:05 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:12:05 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Insure feedback In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Manufactures aren’t around for 10 + years, module manufactures haven’t had a consistent frame size ever, plus in 30 years are you going to want to try to replace/fit a round peg into a square hole. Quality workmanship, follow up w/ the client, & a maintence agreement, is (IMO) the highest bar one can achieve. On Jan 20, 2022, at 3:26 PM, Stuart Kriendler wrote: > > Good day Wrenches, > > Has anyone had any experience with Solar Insure and their 30 year parts and labour warranty program? > > https://www.solarinsure.com/ > > We are considering including this product/service in our contracts to continue to raise the bar for quality service and peace of mind. > > Apparently Solar Insure has been around for 15 years but I haven't spoken to many installers with direct experience with them. > > Looking forward to hearing any feedback, good or bad, especially any red flags. > > Healthiest regards, > Stuart > -- > Stuart Kriendler | Managing Director > > 48 St. Johns Road, Pembroke, HM 07, Bermuda > C: 1.441.599.2105 | O: 1.441.279.5907 | www.BEsolar.bm > > > > OUR VISION: An efficient Bermuda powered by affordable renewable energy. > OUR MISSION: To provide the highest quality energy solutions accessible to all. > > The information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly private and confidential and is intended solely for the individual(s) or entity named above in the To and Copy fields. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify us immediately. If you are not an intended recipient, please be advised that any use, including viewing, printing, disseminating, distributing, copying and re-transmitting of the information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Jan 20 16:49:16 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:49:16 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Energy Hub Message-ID: A homeowner reached out to me with an issue that I am not familiar with because I don't do a lot of work on SolarEdge. She has an Energy Hub and is disappointed that her contractor sold her a system with "future generator support firmware upgrade" promised. From what I read, this upgrade never came or still has not come. Does anyone have any insight on whether generator support is available or still in the works? She's in Grass Valley, CA if anyone wants to contact me off-list that can maybe help her. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benn at skyfireenergy.com Thu Jan 20 17:19:28 2022 From: benn at skyfireenergy.com (Benn Kilburn) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:19:28 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> References: <004201d80d49$2ea81250$8bf836f0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Edmonton, Alberta area….Since mid December our average temperature has been around -15 to -20 degC with several days around -30degC…. We use all Makita 18V tools and we try to bring them into the shop overnight to charge them. That said… several often get left in the vans overnight, at various states of charge, and I must say, I haven’t noticed a drastic difference in the performance regardless if they were fully charged or after given a full charge. We are pretty picky/choosey what tasks we preform those extra cold days (mostly avoiding bending wire/wire-management) and tend to stick to inside work but still do a fair bit outside. There is no chance that they will charge outside onsite at those temps so if we can’t charge them in a customers house/garage then we better be sure to bring enough for the day. Benn On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:28 AM Dana Orzel wrote: > Hey All, > > > > For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is the > overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, > needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? > > I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never > seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. > > > > What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing temps? > > > > Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy 780-906-7807 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 20 17:15:41 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:15:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Most all the companies use the same Samsung batteries. Here is a video about someone checking that out. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Plhxnrba2D8 Jay > On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:03 PM, Ray wrote: > > I've had great luck with the Milwaukee M18; I almost never bring in my tool batteries anymore, unless its going to be below 0. Love the cordless shop vac. > > I also use Ryobi, for my less used tools (ie.circular saw) and they have excellent performance for the money. Not quite as temperature forgiving though. > > As for Milwaukee chucks jamming up; I only had that happen once after a bunch of hammer drilling in Haiti. Scrounged all over the village for the special star keys to take apart the chuck, but it just needed to be cleaned. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > >> On 1/20/22 10:24 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: >> Really Happy with the Milwaukee M18 volt series. Various sized batteries available, & there have to be 150+ tools in the M18 series. I got into the Milwaukee 28 volt originally & what a nightmare; too heavy, replacement batteries were $$$ & life span on the battery was not good. >> >> I have been told the Milwaukee power tools have steel gears not plastic. The impacts are bomber solid. >> >> So far cold weather operation is good, no noticeable deficiencies. & I have charged them very cold so the battery charger BM is fairly smart/sensitive. I have noticed if really cold the charger says "broken Battery" >> >> I Loved the small cooler & reptile heater idea! Great idea! >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >>  Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org >> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:32 AM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries >> >> What lithium battery powered tool brand that has the best performance in freezing weather? My 10 year old+ Makita tool set isn't nearly as powerful as some newer tools. Even with new batteries, the tools have sufficient power in cold weather. >> >> What is the best brand for cold weather operation? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Drake >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> Athens Electric LLC >> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> >> --- >> >> >>> On 2022-01-19 11:58, Alex MeVay wrote: >>> Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, >>> as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the >>> tool effectively. >>> >>> Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If >>> the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into >>> the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic >>> lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. >>> Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft >>> short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high >>> self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short >>> and a fire. >>> >>> In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too >>> cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented >>> correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! >>> >>> Alex MeVay >>> >>> Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 20 17:38:33 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 15:38:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <936A354F-8120-47AC-A8CE-3AF7DF2BD2BC@gmail.com> HI Vince, Thanks I’m still a bit confused as to exactly which way the radian is working or what exactly its job is? Are the sol-arks sending power to the radian or is the radian sending power to the sol-arks? It appears that there is no solar, only batteries on the Radian, so its got to charge them up some how, or maybe the grid is doing that? If its actually installed so its trying to AC couple to the Sol-Ark outputs, that won’t work for a number of reasons. 1. You can’t regulate the output of the radian so it might to try fill the whole load, which will cause it to overload if its beyond the 8kw. ( heck its hard enough with same OEM equipment to get them to balance) 2. if the loads are small, then the Radian might battery charge from the Sol-arks, which I’m guessing that relay is the high battery cut off device? Which means it’ll be turned on/off randomly and not a very good battery charging for LA. 3. It will try to frequency shift if you have that feature turned on. 4. I’m sure there are a few others that I can come up with. Let us know exactly what this radian is trying to do so we can see if there is fix/work around without reinventing the wheel. jay > On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:01 PM, Vince McClellan wrote: > > Hi Jay > Thanks for taking the time to read the schematic and look into the potential issues. Never again will I let a client drive the design on a project. My client is a high level architect with an amazing attention to detail and he drove the design by doing his own research and coming back to us with why don't we do this thing so that... fill in the details. > We did look into the interaction between the Radian inverter and the Sol-Ark inverters on the AC side before we built the system. Tech support thought that the Radian would see the power on the homes wiring as the grid and "sell" back to the Sol-Arks. However the question that you bring up has been a question in my mind this whole time. > > The reason that we aren't connecting the Radian's AC output on the gen breakers on the Sol-Ark is complicated. Basically the techs at Sol-Ark told us that it wouldn't work properly with what we are trying to accomplish. Our client also wanted to be able to charge the Radian's batteries off of the Sol-Arks power in off grid mode for instance. > > The Blue Ion's do seem to have good data connection to the Sol-Ark inverters though the Namaka, but I have seen the Sol-Arks display battery voltage instead of SOC for brief moments of time on the Sol-Ark display. I will check the Blue Ion battery voltage to check for a voltage spike from the solar arrays DC input the next time I'm on site as several folks have mentioned. > > These are all great questions and I really appreciate all the thought that has gone into dissecting this issue. > > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM Jay > wrote: > Hi Vince > > It appears to me ( might be im not clear on what’s happening) that the radian is powering a backed up load. > You’re calling it AC coupled? > > What if you connected the sol ark to the radian ac input for battery charging. Then set the grid/generator input support of the radian so it doesn’t overwhelm the input but powers the loads. > > It would be connected just like a generator or grid, but not AC coupled. You shouldn’t have any dropouts. > > Jay > > Peltz power. > > > > > >> On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis > wrote: >> >>  >> Hi Vince, >> That is a very complex design, so many breaker interlocks but I think I understand the intent! >> >> When you say that you have programmed the Radian for AC coupling, that really isn't programming it to be AC coupled on its AC input side, its saying that it can AC couple inverters on its AC load side. Remember the Radian is a grid forming inverter on the load side (controls voltage and freq) and a current source on the grid input (does not control voltage and freq). How you are connecting solar modules to the Radian will tell you how to set this setting. If you are using charge controllers, you don't want AC coupling here. >> >> Look closely at the grid settings in the Radian, this will control how it will interact with the Sol-Arks at its input. Its looking at the voltage, frequency, impedance etc. on the input and deciding if it should push current. Maybe there is a setting that needs opened up a bit? Be cautious here. >> >> Anyway, here is what I would try after looking closely at the grid settings in the Radian: >> >> Measure DC buss voltage (Blue Ion voltage) throughout this process. Do you see any abrupt changes in the DC buss voltage? At what SOC? Do you have solid communication between Sol-Ark and Blue Ion (Namaka box)? Do you ever see it drop and go to voltage mode instead of SOC communication mode? Does the same issue occur if you use voltage control on the Sol-Ark? >> >> Turn on your DC coupling, and slowly ramp up the AC coupled current (sell current setting on the Radian). Does any AC coupled current trip it off? I suspect if the sell current is lower than the load current, there should be no freq/watt shift. >> If you discharge the batteries deeply, does this make a difference? >> Since you have an open Gen Input Breaker, why not put the Radian GT connection on it? >> Do you really want the Radian to be able to discharge the Blue Ion battery bank at night? >> >> Customer designs are tough, Good Luck! >> >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM Vince McClellan > wrote: >> Thanks Pieter >> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. >> >> Vince McClellan >> Energy Design >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner > wrote: >> Vince, For what it is worth: >> >> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. >> >> Pieter >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Vince McClellan >> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM >> To: RE-wrenches > >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >> >> >> >> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >> >> >> >> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. >> >> >> >> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. >> >> >> >> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Vince McClellan >> >> Energy Design >> >> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >> >> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >> >> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 20 19:35:12 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 17:35:12 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2v battery charger Message-ID: <0DB470B0-9050-434A-9B11-4C16BEC72D8B@gmail.com> Hi all What recommendations do folks have for a 2v battery charger. It’s for 2v lead acid cells, preferably looking for something that’s adjustable to the specific battery chemistry. Higher amps also preferred as the 2v cells are usually pretty large. 10 amps would work but higher probably better I’ve looked around but haven’t found anything. Thanks Jay From frenergy at psln.com Thu Jan 20 22:23:25 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 19:23:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2v battery charger In-Reply-To: <0DB470B0-9050-434A-9B11-4C16BEC72D8B@gmail.com> References: <0DB470B0-9050-434A-9B11-4C16BEC72D8B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f746f8c-bf9c-c09a-f545-ecf5131eba7a@psln.com> Jay,             You caught me at a "good" time as I have 2, 2 volt 1788 Ahr batteries failing.  This is the third and fourth (EXPENSIVE) cell I may have to replace in this 48 volt pack in just 9 years, I was expecting twice the life.             Anyway, there is a variety of ways to discover cells that are failing but the way I usually find them is watching SGs. A month or so ago I noticed these two cells not keeping up with the rest of the pack so of course I bumped up voltage and time, equalized, prayed, swore....nothing worked, they would not come back.  When this happened in the past I actually built a "2 volt" solar panel that had a Voc of about 3.5 volts and amps at about 8, which didn't work out I think partly because to do what has to be done power has to be applied 24/7 for days.             So my latest is this: https://www.amazon.com/Converter-DROK-Adjustable-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B08LPVWX74/ref=pd_sbs_2/147-8705530-5096213?pd_rd_w=0WaS8&pf_rd_p=0a3ad226-8a77-4898-9a99-63ffeb1aef90&pf_rd_r=VMM54F7M6J97FKVG1YTX&pd_rd_r=4ab68b46-8cc1-42b0-8a6e-720dd301e136&pd_rd_wg=6t80O&pd_rd_i=B08LPVWX74&psc=1             for the input side I used a couple 12 volt/50 Ahr AGMs which I would switch out and charge back up twice a day to keep the boost going to the 2V cell.  It took about 4-5-6 days but I got the SGs back up to 1.260 on both cells.  I kept the cells in service during this process, but may have been quicker if I pulled them out one at a time though the pack was not being pulled down below 80% SOC for 2 of these days during this 'boost' period.  I'm not sure if this is going to work as the SGs may drift back down. If it was sulphation, it may work.  If it is something else, I may be going to L-ion. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 solar powered since 1982 On 1/20/2022 4:35 PM, Jay wrote: > Hi all > > What recommendations do folks have for a 2v battery charger. > It’s for 2v lead acid cells, preferably looking for something that’s adjustable to the specific battery chemistry. > > Higher amps also preferred as the 2v cells are usually pretty large. 10 amps would work but higher probably better > > I’ve looked around but haven’t found anything. > > Thanks > > Jay > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From maverick at mavericksolar.com Thu Jan 20 23:11:41 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 22:11:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9EEBC9BA-F299-4462-B7C0-17C5F4798773@mavericksolar.com> I love the Milwaukee CP 3.0 HO batteries. A great combo of size vs power/energy and they use the larger 21700 battery. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 20, 2022, at 8:43 PM, Jay wrote: > >  > Most all the companies use the same Samsung batteries. > > Here is a video about someone checking that out. > > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Plhxnrba2D8 > > Jay > > >>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:03 PM, Ray wrote: >>> >> I've had great luck with the Milwaukee M18; I almost never bring in my tool batteries anymore, unless its going to be below 0. Love the cordless shop vac. >> >> I also use Ryobi, for my less used tools (ie.circular saw) and they have excellent performance for the money. Not quite as temperature forgiving though. >> >> As for Milwaukee chucks jamming up; I only had that happen once after a bunch of hammer drilling in Haiti. Scrounged all over the village for the special star keys to take apart the chuck, but it just needed to be cleaned. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> 303 505-8760 >> >>> On 1/20/22 10:24 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: >>> Really Happy with the Milwaukee M18 volt series. Various sized batteries available, & there have to be 150+ tools in the M18 series. I got into the Milwaukee 28 volt originally & what a nightmare; too heavy, replacement batteries were $$$ & life span on the battery was not good. >>> >>> I have been told the Milwaukee power tools have steel gears not plastic. The impacts are bomber solid. >>> >>> So far cold weather operation is good, no noticeable deficiencies. & I have charged them very cold so the battery charger BM is fairly smart/sensitive. I have noticed if really cold the charger says "broken Battery" >>> >>> I Loved the small cooler & reptile heater idea! Great idea! >>> >>> >>> >>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >>> C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >>>  Please consider the environment before printing this email. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org >>> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:32 AM >>> To: RE-wrenches >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries >>> >>> What lithium battery powered tool brand that has the best performance in freezing weather? My 10 year old+ Makita tool set isn't nearly as powerful as some newer tools. Even with new batteries, the tools have sufficient power in cold weather. >>> >>> What is the best brand for cold weather operation? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Drake >>> >>> Drake Chamberlin >>> Athens Electric LLC >>> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>> >>> --- >>> >>> >>>> On 2022-01-19 11:58, Alex MeVay wrote: >>>> Generally, storage or use at cold temperatures shouldn't be an issue, >>>> as long as the battery can still deliver enough power to operate the >>>> tool effectively. >>>> >>>> Charging though...at cold temperatures, ion mobility goes down. If >>>> the battery is charged too fast, the lithium ions can't make it into >>>> the graphite anode fast enough and they start to plate out as metallic >>>> lithium. At best, this results in a permanent reduction in capacity. >>>> Next worst from there, the lithium metal can create an internal soft >>>> short, immediately or at a later point in time, resulting in high >>>> self-discharge or a dead cell. Worst case, it turns into a hard short >>>> and a fire. >>>> >>>> In theory, the BMS or charger should prevent charging too fast or too >>>> cold, but who knows if an edge-case like this is actually implemented >>>> correctly on any particular battery system. Be careful charging! >>>> >>>> Alex MeVay >>>> >>>> Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Jan 21 01:54:14 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 22:54:14 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. Message-ID: Friends: I am sure many of you are familiar with the somewhat new Outback FM100 charge controller. It allows PV input at up to 300 volts and battery feed at up to 100 amps. It has a built in GFDI fuse, much like the old XW--now branded I think Conextant-- charge controller. Outback recommends against installing an FM 100 in an installation with FM60s or FM 80s. Here is the tech note that gives that recommendation. Below is one paragraph from that tech note. *There is little benefit to mixing an FM100 with an FM60/80. If circumstances require it, this application* *note will explore an option.* Note the language is pretty dang squirrely. Let’s parse the above paragraph: Sentence 1: I submit there may be many scenarios where there is significant benefit: Like if you already have an FM60/80 and you want to add more PV and you want to enjoy the benefits of an FM100, such as higher input voltage or higher output amperage, and not have to fork out an extra $1000 to replace a working FM60/80. Or you installing more than one PV array, one array nearby and/or smaller and one further away or larger, and you don’t want to spend close to $1,000 to charge control the nearer array. Sentence 2: They are offering “an option,” not the only option. I believe there are multiple options. In a mixed installation, the FM100 can rely on its internal GFDI fuse and the FM60 or 80 can rely on the old familiar GFDI breaker with the 1 or 0.5 amp pole connected between the negative and equipment grounding system. Alternatively, Midnite sells a 300 volt rated, multi-pole GFDI breaker that could be shared by an FM100 and an F60/80. It says right in the FM100 manual that you can use external GFDI devices (page 14). I am not at all clear as to what problem there is to mixing the two generations of charge controllers. I reviewed the NEC. There is no indication that thou shall not mix GFDI styles. If anyone has a definitive reason why or why not to mix these models of Outback charge controllers, I would be most interested. Most Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dahlsolar at gmail.com Fri Jan 21 11:12:25 2022 From: dahlsolar at gmail.com (Jesse Dahl) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 10:12:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39B54B89-A84C-42C3-8080-7CF151382830@gmail.com> I use Delwalt only because they still make a couple power/battery tools in the USA. And it’s the only reason I buy them. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote: > > I live in far northern MN (it was -32F this morning) my shop is well insulated but I only heat when I working in there (wood heat). It was 22F in the shop this morning. My batteries give the “cold temp” light when I try charge them even when as warm as 20F. So I need to bring my batteries in at night. It doesn’t take to long to warm them up if I leave them out there at night. Not sure what the magic temp is on them. > > Jesse > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:39 AM, Foxfire Energy wrote: >>> >>  Manufacturers Instructions.. most say “Protect from Freezing n Over Heating “.. like in a trunk. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: >>> >>>  >>> Hey All, >>> >>> For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is the overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? >>> I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. >>> >>> What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing temps? >>> >>> Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? >>> >>> Thanks in advance! >>> >>> >>> >>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >>> C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Fri Jan 21 11:21:51 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 11:21:51 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion tool batteries In-Reply-To: <39B54B89-A84C-42C3-8080-7CF151382830@gmail.com> References: <39B54B89-A84C-42C3-8080-7CF151382830@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use DeWalt tools, mostly because that is what I ended up with. But they have been working totally fine. No complaints here in upstate NY. I do generally bring them in overnight in the winter. Cheers, Dave On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 11:12 AM Jesse Dahl wrote: > I use Delwalt only because they still make a couple power/battery tools in > the USA. And it’s the only reason I buy them. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:16 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote: > > I live in far northern MN (it was -32F this morning) my shop is well > insulated but I only heat when I working in there (wood heat). It was 22F > in the shop this morning. My batteries give the “cold temp” light when I > try charge them even when as warm as 20F. So I need to bring my batteries > in at night. It doesn’t take to long to warm them up if I leave them out > there at night. Not sure what the magic temp is on them. > > Jesse > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:39 AM, Foxfire Energy > wrote: > >  Manufacturers Instructions.. most say “Protect from Freezing n Over > Heating “.. like in a trunk. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: > >  > > Hey All, > > > > For those of us that live & work in freezing winter temps – What is the > overall effect on LI tool batteries stored in a frozen truck overnight, > needs to be used or charged & the battery is -15˚ to 32˚F? > > I assume it’s the same as stationary LI batteries, though I have never > seen a warning on the battery package or in the tool literature. > > > > What are you all doing with work tool batteries in freezing temps? > > > > Are you taking the batteries inside to be warm & charge at night? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Fri Jan 21 12:15:06 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:15:06 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi William Thank you for taking my call. I believe the reason we do not recommend mixing the FM100 and the fM60/80 is. If the FM100 were to short out pv input to output you could expose the 150 volt rated dc breakers on the FM60/80 to 300 vdc. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:54 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Friends: I am sure many of you are familiar with the somewhat new Outback FM100 charge controller. It allows PV input at up to 300 volts and battery feed at up to 100 amps. It has a built in GFDI fuse, much like the old XW--now branded I think Conextant-- charge controller. Outback recommends against installing an FM 100 in an installation with FM60s or FM 80s. Here is the tech note that gives that recommendation. Below is one paragraph from that tech note. There is little benefit to mixing an FM100 with an FM60/80. If circumstances require it, this application note will explore an option. Note the language is pretty dang squirrely. Let’s parse the above paragraph: Sentence 1: I submit there may be many scenarios where there is significant benefit: Like if you already have an FM60/80 and you want to add more PV and you want to enjoy the benefits of an FM100, such as higher input voltage or higher output amperage, and not have to fork out an extra $1000 to replace a working FM60/80. Or you installing more than one PV array, one array nearby and/or smaller and one further away or larger, and you don’t want to spend close to $1,000 to charge control the nearer array. Sentence 2: They are offering “an option,” not the only option. I believe there are multiple options. In a mixed installation, the FM100 can rely on its internal GFDI fuse and the FM60 or 80 can rely on the old familiar GFDI breaker with the 1 or 0.5 amp pole connected between the negative and equipment grounding system. Alternatively, Midnite sells a 300 volt rated, multi-pole GFDI breaker that could be shared by an FM100 and an F60/80. It says right in the FM100 manual that you can use external GFDI devices (page 14). I am not at all clear as to what problem there is to mixing the two generations of charge controllers. I reviewed the NEC. There is no indication that thou shall not mix GFDI styles. If anyone has a definitive reason why or why not to mix these models of Outback charge controllers, I would be most interested. Most Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Fri Jan 21 12:29:10 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 11:29:10 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B33E39A-F261-46FE-B7B5-CBAE699A2E24@mavericksolar.com> Using that logic, wouldn’t the inverters and batteries also be exposed to 300Vdc? And the MX60 would also be at risk for exposing the inverters and batteries to 150Vdc under similar failures? If that’s the only limiting factor, I’d like to take back a couple AC Coupling arrangements I have made for past Radian expansions. ;-) Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 21, 2022, at 11:15 AM, Tuss, Lones wrote: > >  > Hi William > Thank you for taking my call. > I believe the reason we do not recommend mixing the FM100 and the fM60/80 is. > If the FM100 were to short out pv input to output you could expose the 150 volt rated dc breakers on the > FM60/80 to 300 vdc. > > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of William Miller > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:54 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > > > Friends: > > I am sure many of you are familiar with the somewhat new Outback FM100 charge controller. It allows PV input at up to 300 volts and battery feed at up to 100 amps. It has a built in GFDI fuse, much like the old XW--now branded I think Conextant-- charge controller. > > Outback recommends against installing an FM 100 in an installation with FM60s or FM 80s. Here is the tech note that gives that recommendation. Below is one paragraph from that tech note. > > There is little benefit to mixing an FM100 with an FM60/80. If circumstances require it, this application > note will explore an option. > > Note the language is pretty dang squirrely. Let’s parse the above paragraph: > > Sentence 1: I submit there may be many scenarios where there is significant benefit: Like if you already have an FM60/80 and you want to add more PV and you want to enjoy the benefits of an FM100, such as higher input voltage or higher output amperage, and not have to fork out an extra $1000 to replace a working FM60/80. Or you installing more than one PV array, one array nearby and/or smaller and one further away or larger, and you don’t want to spend close to $1,000 to charge control the nearer array. > > Sentence 2: They are offering “an option,” not the only option. I believe there are multiple options. In a mixed installation, the FM100 can rely on its internal GFDI fuse and the FM60 or 80 can rely on the old familiar GFDI breaker with the 1 or 0.5 amp pole connected between the negative and equipment grounding system. Alternatively, Midnite sells a 300 volt rated, multi-pole GFDI breaker that could be shared by an FM100 and an F60/80. It says right in the FM100 manual that you can use external GFDI devices (page 14). > > I am not at all clear as to what problem there is to mixing the two generations of charge controllers. I reviewed the NEC. There is no indication that thou shall not mix GFDI styles. > > If anyone has a definitive reason why or why not to mix these models of Outback charge controllers, I would be most interested. > > Most Sincerely, > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Fri Jan 21 12:39:08 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:39:08 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. In-Reply-To: <9B33E39A-F261-46FE-B7B5-CBAE699A2E24@mavericksolar.com> References: <9B33E39A-F261-46FE-B7B5-CBAE699A2E24@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: Ahh the can of worms get opened. In our conversation Willian brought up the same points. All true, but the white paper was required by legal (CYA). I think getting the new unit listed also came into play. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Maverick Brown Sent: Friday, January 21, 2022 9:29 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Using that logic, wouldn’t the inverters and batteries also be exposed to 300Vdc? And the MX60 would also be at risk for exposing the inverters and batteries to 150Vdc under similar failures? If that’s the only limiting factor, I’d like to take back a couple AC Coupling arrangements I have made for past Radian expansions. ;-) Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Jan 21, 2022, at 11:15 AM, Tuss, Lones > wrote:  Hi William Thank you for taking my call. I believe the reason we do not recommend mixing the FM100 and the fM60/80 is. If the FM100 were to short out pv input to output you could expose the 150 volt rated dc breakers on the FM60/80 to 300 vdc. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:54 PM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Friends: I am sure many of you are familiar with the somewhat new Outback FM100 charge controller. It allows PV input at up to 300 volts and battery feed at up to 100 amps. It has a built in GFDI fuse, much like the old XW--now branded I think Conextant-- charge controller. Outback recommends against installing an FM 100 in an installation with FM60s or FM 80s. Here is the tech note that gives that recommendation. Below is one paragraph from that tech note. There is little benefit to mixing an FM100 with an FM60/80. If circumstances require it, this application note will explore an option. Note the language is pretty dang squirrely. Let’s parse the above paragraph: Sentence 1: I submit there may be many scenarios where there is significant benefit: Like if you already have an FM60/80 and you want to add more PV and you want to enjoy the benefits of an FM100, such as higher input voltage or higher output amperage, and not have to fork out an extra $1000 to replace a working FM60/80. Or you installing more than one PV array, one array nearby and/or smaller and one further away or larger, and you don’t want to spend close to $1,000 to charge control the nearer array. Sentence 2: They are offering “an option,” not the only option. I believe there are multiple options. In a mixed installation, the FM100 can rely on its internal GFDI fuse and the FM60 or 80 can rely on the old familiar GFDI breaker with the 1 or 0.5 amp pole connected between the negative and equipment grounding system. Alternatively, Midnite sells a 300 volt rated, multi-pole GFDI breaker that could be shared by an FM100 and an F60/80. It says right in the FM100 manual that you can use external GFDI devices (page 14). I am not at all clear as to what problem there is to mixing the two generations of charge controllers. I reviewed the NEC. There is no indication that thou shall not mix GFDI styles. If anyone has a definitive reason why or why not to mix these models of Outback charge controllers, I would be most interested. Most Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Fri Jan 21 20:30:18 2022 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 17:30:18 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2v battery charger In-Reply-To: <0DB470B0-9050-434A-9B11-4C16BEC72D8B@gmail.com> References: <0DB470B0-9050-434A-9B11-4C16BEC72D8B@gmail.com> Message-ID: This lacks the protections you would find in a traditional battery charger, but can work. 2.5 volt 60-amp power supply like the Meanwell RSP-320-2.5 https://www.meanwellusa.com/upload/pdf/RSP-320/RSP-320-spec.pdf These are available at Digikey. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 1/20/2022 4:35 PM, Jay wrote: > Hi all > > What recommendations do folks have for a 2v battery charger. > It’s for 2v lead acid cells, preferably looking for something that’s adjustable to the specific battery chemistry. > > Higher amps also preferred as the 2v cells are usually pretty large. 10 amps would work but higher probably better > > I’ve looked around but haven’t found anything. > > Thanks > > Jay > > > From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 10:20:25 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 08:20:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] neutral sizing for sense Message-ID: <164227FB-196A-4BEB-85CC-8011C47BC4F6@gmail.com> HI All, Where do I find in the code how to size a sense only neutral wire for GT inverter. thanks jay peltz power From dan at foxfire-energy.com Mon Jan 24 11:57:52 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:57:52 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] neutral sizing for sense In-Reply-To: <164227FB-196A-4BEB-85CC-8011C47BC4F6@gmail.com> References: <164227FB-196A-4BEB-85CC-8011C47BC4F6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <86FF47D3-92B2-4980-9936-A1EB102E57DB@foxfire-energy.com> I’d start with the manufacturers recommendations Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 24, 2022, at 11:52 AM, jay wrote: > > HI All, > > Where do I find in the code how to size a sense only neutral wire for GT inverter. > > thanks > > jay > > peltz power > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Jan 24 12:10:44 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:10:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] neutral sizing for sense In-Reply-To: <86FF47D3-92B2-4980-9936-A1EB102E57DB@foxfire-energy.com> References: <164227FB-196A-4BEB-85CC-8011C47BC4F6@gmail.com> <86FF47D3-92B2-4980-9936-A1EB102E57DB@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: 705.95 Ampacity of Neutral Conductor National Electrical Code 2017 of New York State > 7 Special Conditions > 705 Interconnected Electric Power Production Sources > 705.95 Ampacity of Neutral Conductor JUMP TO FULL CODE CHAPTER The ampacity of the neutral conductors shall comply with either (A) or (B). (A) Neutral Conductor for Single Phase, 2-Wire Inverter Output If a single-phase, 2-wire inverter output is connected to the neutral and one ungrounded conductor (only) of a 3-wire system or of a 3-phase, 4-wire , wye-connected system, the maximum load connected between the neutral and any one ungrounded conductor plus the inverter output rating shall not exceed the ampacity of the neutral conductor . (B) Neutral Conductor for Instrumentation, Voltage, Detection or Phase Detection A conductor used solely for instrumentation, voltage detection, or phase detection and connected to a single-phase or 3-phase interactive inverter , shall be permitted to be sized at less than the ampacity of the other current-carrying conductors and shall be sized equal to or larger than the equipment grounding conductor . On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 11:58 AM Foxfire Energy wrote: > I’d start with the manufacturers recommendations > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 24, 2022, at 11:52 AM, jay wrote: > > > > HI All, > > > > Where do I find in the code how to size a sense only neutral wire for GT > inverter. > > > > thanks > > > > jay > > > > peltz power > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Mon Jan 24 15:57:05 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:57:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <8A985172-605D-4C8C-858E-0C1D3C358084@swnl.net> References: <005101d80db5$089a4800$19ced800$@offgridenterprises.org> <003501d80e0b$da8c8160$8fa58420$@offgridenterprises.org> <143f74ce-42ec-bbe2-e56a-addd91d01eba@villagepowerdesign.com> <8A985172-605D-4C8C-858E-0C1D3C358084@swnl.net> Message-ID: HI Jeff The overriding design constraints were to try to make an older existing system and a new state of the art system perform like one unit. It was a bad premise to start with. I let the client talk me into this design against my better judgment. It would have been less expensive for my company to simply scrap the old system, add another inverter to the new system, and add the DC array power to the new system from the existing system. Live and learn! Thanks for chiming in, Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 1:02 PM Tump wrote: > I must agree spent quite a bit of time trying to figure WTF over. Then i > saw it was an architect design. He must have been paying himself cause I > have no idea why someone would want to try to integrate all this stuff > while the tech support had nothing to say but; "that won’t work”. Hope for > your sake it was T&M. T > > On Jan 20, 2022, at 2:25 PM, Jeff Clearwater > wrote: > > Hi Vince and All, > > Loving this insightful discussion on the technical subtleties of this > set-up - but I'm wondering if I'm missing the Why? What is this design > trying to accomplish? What were the overriding design drivers? > > Is it a case of incremental design where one system needed to grow but a > separate system was added? Are they physically close to each other? > > Are you trying to leverage the outputs so the loads have the advantage of > both outputs simultaneously? > > If you solve this one AC coupling cut-out issue - is the system then > optimized and exactly what does that optimization accomplish? > > I understand if you don't want to take the time to explain all this but > I'm just curious - is there a useful architecture out there that I'm > missing? > > Can the PV and battery resources be combined into one system? - (perhaps > by selling the AGMs and Radian and buying more lithium and Sol-Arks?) > > Seems like control and fine tuning and troubleshooting ongoing would be a > hassle with such complexity - but then again we sometimes work with what we > got! > > As Nick said - they are lucky to have you! Question is how to best serve > that design! > > Best, > > Jeff > > Vince McClellan > > January 20, 2022 at 10:32 AM > Thanks again for your input. I'll check the Blue Ion battery voltage the > next time on site with and without the Radian AC coupled. I'm also going to > check in with Sol-Ark and see if the inverters respond to high battery > voltage when they are in closed loop with the BMS on the battery. I've > always assumed that the Sol-Ark's software just responds to the SOC from > the BMS. > That would be a possible connection between the freq-watt function on the > Sol-Ark and DC power from the solar array. I was really scratching my head > on where the possible connection could be between incoming DC power and the > freq-watt function on the Sol-Arks. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Pieter Huebner > > January 20, 2022 at 6:41 AM > Vince, Although you have an AC bussed connection, the issue may not be the > opposite as ours. In Our case the battery buss voltage goes high when the > solar array is enabled. If you are also experiencing DC buss excursions you > can trigger frequency shifting. If you haven't already done so, I suggest > that you closely monitor the battery voltage when the solar array is > charging both with and without the Radian AC bussing connected. > Pieter > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Vince McClellan > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:16 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > Thanks Pieter > We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our > freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems > to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to > the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue > Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power > from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the > MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt > function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner < > pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Vince McClellan > > January 19, 2022 at 9:15 PM > Thanks Pieter > We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our > freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems > to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to > the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue > Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power > from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the > MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt > function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Pieter Huebner > > January 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM > Vince, For what it is worth: > We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark > inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark > inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge > voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with > their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For > the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort > to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the > Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an > existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system > using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar > capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), > but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted > an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are > related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. > Pieter > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Vince McClellan > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues > > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a > new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion > batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept > the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the > new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is > significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters > freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter > even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge > threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the > Radian will connect and stay connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. > Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are > still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Vince McClellan > > January 19, 2022 at 3:15 PM > Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? > > We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a > new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion > batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept > the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the > new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is > significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters > freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter > even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge > threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the > Radian will connect and stay connected. > > We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this > system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt > kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. > Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are > still experiencing the same problem. > > Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our > troubleshooting efforts next? > > Thanks, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Mon Jan 24 16:11:45 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 13:11:45 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: <936A354F-8120-47AC-A8CE-3AF7DF2BD2BC@gmail.com> References: <936A354F-8120-47AC-A8CE-3AF7DF2BD2BC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Ray Good to hear from you. The Radian is set up to see the power on the Sol-Ark inverters as the grid and feed back to it with the Sol-Arks set up to go into freg-watt function when the Blue Ion batteries are close to full. In theory this should work, and does, until the Sol-Ark goes into freq-watt before the batteries are full. When power from the new solar array that is connected to the MPPT inputs on the Sol-Ark inverters goes above some threshold it sends the Sol-Arks into freq-watt mode. I'm talking with both Blue Planet Energy and Sol-Ark about this issue. Thanks to folks on the wrenches list that have chimed in on this thread we have way more things to look for as causal for why this happens and fix the problem. Thanks as always for your input on the list, Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 6:43 PM jay wrote: > HI Vince, > > Thanks > > I’m still a bit confused as to exactly which way the radian is working or > what exactly its job is? > > Are the sol-arks sending power to the radian or is the radian sending > power to the sol-arks? > It appears that there is no solar, only batteries on the Radian, so its > got to charge them up some how, or maybe the grid is doing that? > > If its actually installed so its trying to AC couple to the Sol-Ark > outputs, that won’t work for a number of reasons. 1. You can’t regulate > the output of the radian so it might to try fill the whole load, which will > cause it to overload if its beyond the 8kw. ( heck its hard enough with > same OEM equipment to get them to balance) 2. if the loads are small, then > the Radian might battery charge from the Sol-arks, which I’m guessing that > relay is the high battery cut off device? Which means it’ll be turned > on/off randomly and not a very good battery charging for LA. 3. It will > try to frequency shift if you have that feature turned on. 4. I’m sure > there are a few others that I can come up with. > > Let us know exactly what this radian is trying to do so we can see if > there is fix/work around without reinventing the wheel. > > jay > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:01 PM, Vince McClellan > wrote: > > Hi Jay > Thanks for taking the time to read the schematic and look into the > potential issues. Never again will I let a client drive the design on a > project. My client is a high level architect with an amazing attention to > detail and he drove the design by doing his own research and coming back to > us with why don't we do this thing so that... fill in the details. > We did look into the interaction between the Radian inverter and the > Sol-Ark inverters on the AC side before we built the system. Tech support > thought that the Radian would see the power on the homes wiring as the grid > and "sell" back to the Sol-Arks. However the question that you bring up has > been a question in my mind this whole time. > > The reason that we aren't connecting the Radian's AC output on the gen > breakers on the Sol-Ark is complicated. Basically the techs at Sol-Ark told > us that it wouldn't work properly with what we are trying to accomplish. > Our client also wanted to be able to charge the Radian's batteries off of > the Sol-Arks power in off grid mode for instance. > > The Blue Ion's do seem to have good data connection to the Sol-Ark > inverters though the Namaka, but I have seen the Sol-Arks display battery > voltage instead of SOC for brief moments of time on the Sol-Ark display. I > will check the Blue Ion battery voltage to check for a voltage spike from > the solar arrays DC input the next time I'm on site as several folks have > mentioned. > > These are all great questions and I really appreciate all the thought that > has gone into dissecting this issue. > > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please > delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM Jay wrote: > >> Hi Vince >> >> It appears to me ( might be im not clear on what’s happening) that the >> radian is powering a backed up load. >> You’re calling it AC coupled? >> >> What if you connected the sol ark to the radian ac input for battery >> charging. Then set the grid/generator input support of the radian so it >> doesn’t overwhelm the input but powers the loads. >> >> It would be connected just like a generator or grid, but not AC coupled. >> You shouldn’t have any dropouts. >> >> Jay >> >> Peltz power. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: >> >>  >> Hi Vince, >> That is a very complex design, so many breaker interlocks but I think I >> understand the intent! >> >> When you say that you have programmed the Radian for AC coupling, that >> really isn't programming it to be AC coupled on its AC input side, its >> saying that it can AC couple inverters on its AC load side. Remember the >> Radian is a grid forming inverter on the load side (controls voltage and >> freq) and a current source on the grid input (does not control voltage and >> freq). How you are connecting solar modules to the Radian will tell you >> how to set this setting. If you are using charge controllers, you don't >> want AC coupling here. >> >> Look closely at the grid settings in the Radian, this will control how it >> will interact with the Sol-Arks at its input. Its looking at the voltage, >> frequency, impedance etc. on the input and deciding if it should push >> current. Maybe there is a setting that needs opened up a bit? Be cautious >> here. >> >> Anyway, here is what I would try after looking closely at the grid >> settings in the Radian: >> >> Measure DC buss voltage (Blue Ion voltage) throughout this process. Do >> you see any abrupt changes in the DC buss voltage? At what SOC? Do you >> have solid communication between Sol-Ark and Blue Ion (Namaka box)? Do you >> ever see it drop and go to voltage mode instead of SOC communication mode? >> Does the same issue occur if you use voltage control on the Sol-Ark? >> >> Turn on your DC coupling, and slowly ramp up the AC coupled current (sell >> current setting on the Radian). Does any AC coupled current trip it off? >> I suspect if the sell current is lower than the load current, there should >> be no freq/watt shift. >> If you discharge the batteries deeply, does this make a difference? >> Since you have an open Gen Input Breaker, why not put the Radian GT >> connection on it? >> Do you really want the Radian to be able to discharge the Blue Ion >> battery bank at night? >> >> Customer designs are tough, Good Luck! >> >> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM Vince McClellan < >> vince at solarenergydesign.com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Pieter >>> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our >>> freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems >>> to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to >>> the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue >>> Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power >>> from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the >>> MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt >>> function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. >>> >>> Vince McClellan >>> Energy Design >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >>> >>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient >>> please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or >>> attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner < >>> pieter at offgridenterprises.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Vince, For what it is worth: >>>> >>>> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark >>>> inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark >>>> inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge >>>> voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with >>>> their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For >>>> the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort >>>> to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the >>>> Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an >>>> existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system >>>> using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar >>>> capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), >>>> but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted >>>> an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are >>>> related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. >>>> >>>> Pieter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >>>> Behalf Of *Vince McClellan >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM >>>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to >>>> a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion >>>> batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept >>>> the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the >>>> new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is >>>> significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters >>>> freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter >>>> even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge >>>> threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the >>>> Radian will connect and stay connected. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this >>>> system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt >>>> kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. >>>> Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are >>>> still experiencing the same problem. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our >>>> troubleshooting efforts next? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> Vince McClellan >>>> >>>> Energy Design >>>> >>>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>>> >>>> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >>>> >>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient >>>> please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or >>>> attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 16:31:30 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:31:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext XW+ 5548 fan replacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think this is it: AD1212HB-A71GL, from Adda corporation On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 12:35 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone have a source where you can get a replacement fan for the > Conext XW+ inverters? I just talked to Schneider and since this inverter is > just out of warranty, they will not send another one, nor sell me one. > > I also checked the archives because I thought that someone asked about > this before, but that was for the charge controller. A couple people said > they had suppliers for the fans, but none specifically were mentioned on > that thread. > > I appreciate the help! > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Mon Jan 24 16:48:17 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:48:17 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FANS for the Conext References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 29977 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: ~WRD1331.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Mon Jan 24 17:29:59 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 15:29:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 20,000 SQFT HONE Message-ID: <007001d81171$ec437490$c4ca5db0$@solarwork.com> Hey All, I have been asked to design & install a solar backup system for a 20,000 sqft "home", autonomy requirements unknown at this time. I know. lets save the jokes. Many of you have confronted this issue with survivalist/realist types. Probably 400-600 Amp utility service is present. I generated this list with one of my engineers for the General Contractor to consider: * So there is no room for a ground mount in the back corner of the property? * If the house is in the design stage, is there any possibility for them to leave one nice, south facing roof surface that solar could easily attach to...? * Is there a possibility for a 'man cave' to be included, for a 3-4 car garage for sports cars/boats/tractors/quads... and THAT could be a standard roof surface where solar could easily attach...? * How much roof space does he have for PV? * How many broken up roof faces are there? * What size system do you estimate can be put there? * What is the size of his main panel? There are many systems out there for 200A panels.... backing up 400A panels is problematic, unless you want to install two 200A systems. * Does he want to run his house during a grid outage even as if he is still connected to the grid? * If the grid went down how long does he want for autonomy? * How is the house heated? * Any large loads like Well Pumps, Electric Ovens and Cooktops, electric dryers, electric water heater/on demand water heaters? Etc? * Being involved in the design is integration of the house is critical. * Both were skeptical on the roof tiles in snow country, low elevation desert is more the idea. I have an inquiry with Tesla on this point. * How much AC, and do they get summer outages? I was wondering if I could have a phone call & pick your mind as in: What have you done? What would you do differently next time? Or would you do it the same again? How much client input did you receive? Please respond directly to my email. Thanks in advance. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jan 24 19:58:01 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:58:01 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <809F996A-126C-4FB1-B25B-61BFC1855C01@gmail.com> It’s sort of amazing to me because as far as I understand the radian doesn’t have any output control. Why doesn’t it go into overload? I’m guessing that either the loads don’t exceed its output, or there are some settings in the sol ark that limit it or some by some unique chance interaction it’s actually sharing the load with the sol arks? Interesting Jay > On Jan 24, 2022, at 2:12 PM, Vince McClellan wrote: > >  > Hi Ray > Good to hear from you. > The Radian is set up to see the power on the Sol-Ark inverters as the grid and feed back to it with the Sol-Arks set up to go into freg-watt function when the Blue Ion batteries are close to full. In theory this should work, and does, until the Sol-Ark goes into freq-watt before the batteries are full. When power from the new solar array that is connected to the MPPT inputs on the Sol-Ark inverters goes above some threshold it sends the Sol-Arks into freq-watt mode. I'm talking with both Blue Planet Energy and Sol-Ark about this issue. Thanks to folks on the wrenches list that have chimed in on this thread we have way more things to look for as causal for why this happens and fix the problem. > > Thanks as always for your input on the list, > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. > > >> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 6:43 PM jay wrote: >> HI Vince, >> >> Thanks >> >> I’m still a bit confused as to exactly which way the radian is working or what exactly its job is? >> >> Are the sol-arks sending power to the radian or is the radian sending power to the sol-arks? >> It appears that there is no solar, only batteries on the Radian, so its got to charge them up some how, or maybe the grid is doing that? >> >> If its actually installed so its trying to AC couple to the Sol-Ark outputs, that won’t work for a number of reasons. 1. You can’t regulate the output of the radian so it might to try fill the whole load, which will cause it to overload if its beyond the 8kw. ( heck its hard enough with same OEM equipment to get them to balance) 2. if the loads are small, then the Radian might battery charge from the Sol-arks, which I’m guessing that relay is the high battery cut off device? Which means it’ll be turned on/off randomly and not a very good battery charging for LA. 3. It will try to frequency shift if you have that feature turned on. 4. I’m sure there are a few others that I can come up with. >> >> Let us know exactly what this radian is trying to do so we can see if there is fix/work around without reinventing the wheel. >> >> jay >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:01 PM, Vince McClellan wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jay >>> Thanks for taking the time to read the schematic and look into the potential issues. Never again will I let a client drive the design on a project. My client is a high level architect with an amazing attention to detail and he drove the design by doing his own research and coming back to us with why don't we do this thing so that... fill in the details. >>> We did look into the interaction between the Radian inverter and the Sol-Ark inverters on the AC side before we built the system. Tech support thought that the Radian would see the power on the homes wiring as the grid and "sell" back to the Sol-Arks. However the question that you bring up has been a question in my mind this whole time. >>> >>> The reason that we aren't connecting the Radian's AC output on the gen breakers on the Sol-Ark is complicated. Basically the techs at Sol-Ark told us that it wouldn't work properly with what we are trying to accomplish. Our client also wanted to be able to charge the Radian's batteries off of the Sol-Arks power in off grid mode for instance. >>> >>> The Blue Ion's do seem to have good data connection to the Sol-Ark inverters though the Namaka, but I have seen the Sol-Arks display battery voltage instead of SOC for brief moments of time on the Sol-Ark display. I will check the Blue Ion battery voltage to check for a voltage spike from the solar arrays DC input the next time I'm on site as several folks have mentioned. >>> >>> These are all great questions and I really appreciate all the thought that has gone into dissecting this issue. >>> >>> >>> Vince McClellan >>> Energy Design >>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >>> >>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM Jay wrote: >>>> Hi Vince >>>> >>>> It appears to me ( might be im not clear on what’s happening) that the radian is powering a backed up load. >>>> You’re calling it AC coupled? >>>> >>>> What if you connected the sol ark to the radian ac input for battery charging. Then set the grid/generator input support of the radian so it doesn’t overwhelm the input but powers the loads. >>>> >>>> It would be connected just like a generator or grid, but not AC coupled. You shouldn’t have any dropouts. >>>> >>>> Jay >>>> >>>> Peltz power. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> Hi Vince, >>>>> That is a very complex design, so many breaker interlocks but I think I understand the intent! >>>>> >>>>> When you say that you have programmed the Radian for AC coupling, that really isn't programming it to be AC coupled on its AC input side, its saying that it can AC couple inverters on its AC load side. Remember the Radian is a grid forming inverter on the load side (controls voltage and freq) and a current source on the grid input (does not control voltage and freq). How you are connecting solar modules to the Radian will tell you how to set this setting. If you are using charge controllers, you don't want AC coupling here. >>>>> >>>>> Look closely at the grid settings in the Radian, this will control how it will interact with the Sol-Arks at its input. Its looking at the voltage, frequency, impedance etc. on the input and deciding if it should push current. Maybe there is a setting that needs opened up a bit? Be cautious here. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, here is what I would try after looking closely at the grid settings in the Radian: >>>>> >>>>> Measure DC buss voltage (Blue Ion voltage) throughout this process. Do you see any abrupt changes in the DC buss voltage? At what SOC? Do you have solid communication between Sol-Ark and Blue Ion (Namaka box)? Do you ever see it drop and go to voltage mode instead of SOC communication mode? Does the same issue occur if you use voltage control on the Sol-Ark? >>>>> >>>>> Turn on your DC coupling, and slowly ramp up the AC coupled current (sell current setting on the Radian). Does any AC coupled current trip it off? I suspect if the sell current is lower than the load current, there should be no freq/watt shift. >>>>> If you discharge the batteries deeply, does this make a difference? >>>>> Since you have an open Gen Input Breaker, why not put the Radian GT connection on it? >>>>> Do you really want the Radian to be able to discharge the Blue Ion battery bank at night? >>>>> >>>>> Customer designs are tough, Good Luck! >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM Vince McClellan wrote: >>>>>> Thanks Pieter >>>>>> We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. >>>>>> >>>>>> Vince McClellan >>>>>> Energy Design >>>>>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>>>>> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner wrote: >>>>>>> Vince, For what it is worth: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pieter >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vince McClellan >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM >>>>>>> To: RE-wrenches >>>>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vince McClellan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Energy Design >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional >>>>>>> >>>>>>> p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mac Lewis >>>>> >>>>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpegg at energyalternatives.ca Tue Jan 25 00:12:50 2022 From: kpegg at energyalternatives.ca (Kevin Pegg) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 05:12:50 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2v battery charger In-Reply-To: <0DB470B0-9050-434A-9B11-4C16BEC72D8B@gmail.com> References: <0DB470B0-9050-434A-9B11-4C16BEC72D8B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, I have had an Instek PSH-3630A for at least 15 years. It's been a solid unit has dealt with a lot of 2V cell recoveries. I see that particular unit is discontinued, if I was to buy one again, I'd get the Instek PSW 80-40.5 which goes from 0-80V and 40A. Not low cost units - will set you back couple thousand. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jay Sent: January-20-22 4:35 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2v battery charger Hi all What recommendations do folks have for a 2v battery charger. It’s for 2v lead acid cells, preferably looking for something that’s adjustable to the specific battery chemistry. Higher amps also preferred as the 2v cells are usually pretty large. 10 amps would work but higher probably better I’ve looked around but haven’t found anything. Thanks Jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From maclewis1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 07:41:55 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 05:41:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Silent FM100 Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I have a recently installed Outback system, (Radian, FM100, Mate 3s) that was humming along great for about a month but for some reason the FM 100 stopped charging. It went through a full charge day, but has stayed in Silent state ever since. No event was logged (via Optics at least) and we are well within its current and voltage bounds. I can see ~ 210 V on the PV input via Optics We are below rebulk and float thresholds. I have tried to remotely trigger a bulk charge, an eq charge etc. I have tried remotely rebooting the Mate. Any other things I should try remotely? I am trying to avoid a long snowcat ride! Thanks -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Tue Jan 25 08:37:34 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:37:34 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] neutral sizing for sense In-Reply-To: References: <164227FB-196A-4BEB-85CC-8011C47BC4F6@gmail.com> <86FF47D3-92B2-4980-9936-A1EB102E57DB@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: <67ae440321234368beddb76fed2de951@redwoodalliance.org> "the maximum load connected between the neutral and any one ungrounded [10] conductor plus the inverter [9] output rating shall not exceed the ampacity [5] of the neutral conductor [6]." So the neutral conductor is supposed to be sized for the connected load plus the entire maximum output of the inverter? --- On 2022-01-24 12:10, Kirk Herander wrote: > 705.95 AMPACITY OF NEUTRAL CONDUCTOR > > National Electrical Code 2017 of New York State [1] > 7 Special Conditions [2] > 705 Interconnected Electric Power Production Sources [3] > 705.95 Ampacity of Neutral Conductor [4] > JUMP TO FULL CODE CHAPTER > > The ampacity [5] of the neutral conductors [6] shall comply with either (A) or (B). > > (A) NEUTRAL CONDUCTOR FOR SINGLE PHASE, 2-WIRE INVERTER OUTPUT [7] > > If a single-phase, 2-wire [8] inverter [9] output is connected to the neutral and one ungrounded [10] conductor (only) of a 3-wire [8] system or of a 3-phase, 4-wire [8], wye-connected system, the maximum load connected between the neutral and any one ungrounded [10] conductor plus the inverter [9] output rating shall not exceed the ampacity [5] of the neutral conductor [6]. > > (B) NEUTRAL CONDUCTOR FOR INSTRUMENTATION, VOLTAGE, DETECTION OR PHASE DETECTION [7] > > A conductor used solely for instrumentation, voltage [11] detection, or phase detection and connected to a single-phase or 3-phase interactive inverter [12], shall be permitted to be sized at less than the ampacity [5] of the other current-carrying conductors and shall be sized equal to or larger than the equipment grounding conductor [13]. > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 11:58 AM Foxfire Energy wrote: > >> I'd start with the manufacturers recommendations >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jan 24, 2022, at 11:52 AM, jay wrote: >>> >>> HI All, >>> >>> Where do I find in the code how to size a sense only neutral wire for GT inverter. >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> jay >>> >>> peltz power >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > > _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ > > www.vermont.solar [14] > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017 [2] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/7/special-conditions#7 [3] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/7/special-conditions#705 [4] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/7/special-conditions#705.95 [5] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#ampacity [6] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#neutral_conductor [7] http://webmail.redwoodalliance.org/./#NOP [8] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/8/communications-systems#wire [9] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/6/special-equipment#inverter [10] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#ungrounded [11] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#voltage_of_a_circuit [12] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#interactive_inverter [13] https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#grounding_conductor_equipment_egc [14] https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645&sdata=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Tue Jan 25 09:24:00 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 09:24:00 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] neutral sizing for sense In-Reply-To: <67ae440321234368beddb76fed2de951@redwoodalliance.org> References: <164227FB-196A-4BEB-85CC-8011C47BC4F6@gmail.com> <86FF47D3-92B2-4980-9936-A1EB102E57DB@foxfire-energy.com> <67ae440321234368beddb76fed2de951@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Drake, I believe that is for a single phase 2 wire output only. I am assuming one hot and one neutral for the inverter output in this case. I would think most *grid tied* inverters fall under 705.95B, where the neutral is only a voltage sense and can be sized as small as the equipment ground. Cheers, Dave On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 8:37 AM wrote: > "the maximum load connected between the neutral and any one ungrounded > conductor > plus the inverter > output > rating shall not exceed the ampacity > of > the neutral conductor > > ." > > > So the neutral conductor is supposed to be sized for the connected load > plus the entire maximum output of the inverter? > --- > > > > On 2022-01-24 12:10, Kirk Herander wrote: > > 705.95 Ampacity of Neutral Conductor > National Electrical Code 2017 of New York State > > 7 Special Conditions > > > 705 Interconnected Electric Power Production Sources > > > 705.95 Ampacity of Neutral Conductor > > JUMP TO FULL CODE CHAPTER > > The ampacity > of > the neutral conductors > shall > comply with either (A) or (B). > > > (A) Neutral Conductor for Single Phase, 2-Wire Inverter Output > <#m_3695074346584270383_NOP> > > If a single-phase, 2-wire > > inverter > output > is connected to the neutral and one ungrounded > conductor > (only) of a 3-wire > system > or of a 3-phase, 4-wire > , > wye-connected system, the maximum load connected between the neutral and > any one ungrounded > conductor > plus the inverter > output > rating shall not exceed the ampacity > of > the neutral conductor > > . > > > (B) Neutral Conductor for Instrumentation, Voltage, Detection or Phase > Detection <#m_3695074346584270383_NOP> > > A conductor used solely for instrumentation, voltage > detection, > or phase detection and connected to a single-phase or 3-phase interactive > inverter > , > shall be permitted to be sized at less than the ampacity > of > the other current-carrying conductors and shall be sized equal to or larger > than the equipment grounding conductor > > . > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 11:58 AM Foxfire Energy > wrote: > > I'd start with the manufacturers recommendations > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 24, 2022, at 11:52 AM, jay wrote: > > > > HI All, > > > > Where do I find in the code how to size a sense only neutral wire for GT > inverter. > > > > thanks > > > > jay > > > > peltz power > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 11:29:59 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 08:29:59 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Silent FM100 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like programming still needs some tweaking, is this off grid or connected Jerry On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:42 AM Mac Lewis wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > I have a recently installed Outback system, (Radian, FM100, Mate 3s) that > was humming along great for about a month but for some reason the FM 100 > stopped charging. It went through a full charge day, but has stayed in > Silent state ever since. No event was logged (via Optics at least) and we > are well within its current and voltage bounds. > > I can see ~ 210 V on the PV input via Optics > We are below rebulk and float thresholds. > > I have tried to remotely trigger a bulk charge, an eq charge etc. I have > tried remotely rebooting the Mate. Any other things I should try > remotely? I am trying to avoid a long snowcat ride! > > Thanks > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Tue Jan 25 13:00:07 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 10:00:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Silent FM100 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings Mac, If it’s a snowcat ride definitely don’t go up there without a new and tested controller. I had this happen on a large project last year and unfortunately it ended up with an undesirable outcome. The system was originally two of the early non AFCI versions that worked fine for 15 months and then the client had me double the array by maxing out a large garage structure so I therefore added two more of the newer AFCI versions. When I went for the final step to commission and closed all the breakers on the battery side all four controllers were stuck in Silent. I tried everything with no success. I was also getting a “Fault Input Active” error as if the RSI initiator had been hit but without any sort of real consistency that would go off sometimes. No idea why this happened, all I did was completely power down the system so that I can work safely in the GSLC’s. To disclose all details, the system did employ their ICS combiner solution however the RSI was back in the operational position. After I pulled two new FM100’s from my inventory and replaced half of his controllers they were convinced I wasn’t just huffed up on goofballs and replaced all of them for me. The bummer was the “new” units they sent me came from their warranty exchange stock and two of those were dead out of the box too! Last year I also had a FNDC that also died from being powered down so the unfortunate result to those experiences is that now I’m scared to power down the systems anymore! (Yes, I always power down array first before battery). I can fairly say that I spend at least 40 hours a year swapping/boxing/shipping/labeling/waiting in line at UPS Store/diagnosing/holding for tech support for FM80’s. Not trying to dish on Outback, I love them (mostly) and after a couple decades of installing their controllers it only makes sense that they’re going to fail but I’ve had to learn to really keep up on my procedures to keep track of all the failed controllers in my inventory. It’s a constant loop of controllers in and out. Starting to see some more Classic failures as well however most of them are much older than the Outbacks and Midnite’s RMA process takes less than 1/4 of the time it takes to deal with Outback (though they are getting better it seems). Best of luck with the effort Mac! Nick > On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:41 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > I have a recently installed Outback system, (Radian, FM100, Mate 3s) that was humming along great for about a month but for some reason the FM 100 stopped charging. It went through a full charge day, but has stayed in Silent state ever since. No event was logged (via Optics at least) and we are well within its current and voltage bounds. > > I can see ~ 210 V on the PV input via Optics > We are below rebulk and float thresholds. > > I have tried to remotely trigger a bulk charge, an eq charge etc. I have tried remotely rebooting the Mate. Any other things I should try remotely? I am trying to avoid a long snowcat ride! > > Thanks > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 13:01:47 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 10:01:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Message-ID: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> Wrenches, Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. Thanks, Michael Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Tom at solar-biz.com Tue Jan 25 19:04:13 2022 From: Tom at solar-biz.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 00:04:13 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they're DIN rail Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron's toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices - not just in the US, but also across the world - are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. [cid:image001.png at 01D8121E.5569DE30] tom at solar-biz.com MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 International: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 www.thesolarbiz.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Wrenches, Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. Thanks, Michael Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 [cid:image002.gif at 01D8121E.5569DE30] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image002.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: image002.gif URL: From tump at swnl.net Tue Jan 25 19:15:50 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:15:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> I use the SQD fused disco I mount this next to the CC and use the Flex cobra wire for the low DC voltage and the do have breakers for the context for that > On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Tom Duffy wrote: > > Hi Mike > > No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they’re DIN rail > > Tom Duffy > Senior Solar Design Engineer > > Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron’s toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices — not just in the US, but also across the world — are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. > Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. > > tom at solar-biz.com > MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 > DIRECT: 888-503-6772 > International: 001-575-539-2111 > PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 > FAX: 520-844-8442 > www.thesolarbiz.com > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. > > From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 > > Wrenches, > > Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. > > Thanks, > Michael > > > > > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 19:35:54 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:35:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Silent FM100 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is an off-grid site. It worked as programmed for about a month... I will certainly have a spare if I have to go up. Thanks On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 11:00 AM Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Greetings Mac, > > If it’s a snowcat ride definitely don’t go up there without a new and > tested controller. I had this happen on a large project last year and > unfortunately it ended up with an undesirable outcome. The system was > originally two of the early non AFCI versions that worked fine for 15 > months and then the client had me double the array by maxing out a large > garage structure so I therefore added two more of the newer AFCI versions. > When I went for the final step to commission and closed all the breakers on > the battery side all four controllers were stuck in Silent. I tried > everything with no success. I was also getting a “Fault Input Active” error > as if the RSI initiator had been hit but without any sort of real > consistency that would go off sometimes. No idea why this happened, all I > did was completely power down the system so that I can work safely in the > GSLC’s. To disclose all details, the system did employ their ICS combiner > solution however the RSI was back in the operational position. After I > pulled two new FM100’s from my inventory and replaced half of his > controllers they were convinced I wasn’t just huffed up on goofballs and > replaced all of them for me. The bummer was the “new” units they sent me > came from their warranty exchange stock and two of those were dead out of > the box too! Last year I also had a FNDC that also died from being powered > down so the unfortunate result to those experiences is that now I’m scared > to power down the systems anymore! (Yes, I always power down array first > before battery). > > I can fairly say that I spend at least 40 hours a year > swapping/boxing/shipping/labeling/waiting in line at UPS > Store/diagnosing/holding for tech support for FM80’s. Not trying to dish on > Outback, I love them (mostly) and after a couple decades of installing > their controllers it only makes sense that they’re going to fail but I’ve > had to learn to really keep up on my procedures to keep track of all the > failed controllers in my inventory. It’s a constant loop of controllers in > and out. Starting to see some more Classic failures as well however most of > them are much older than the Outbacks and Midnite’s RMA process takes less > than 1/4 of the time it takes to deal with Outback (though they are getting > better it seems). > > Best of luck with the effort Mac! Nick > > On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:41 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > I have a recently installed Outback system, (Radian, FM100, Mate 3s) that > was humming along great for about a month but for some reason the FM 100 > stopped charging. It went through a full charge day, but has stayed in > Silent state ever since. No event was logged (via Optics at least) and we > are well within its current and voltage bounds. > > I can see ~ 210 V on the PV input via Optics > We are below rebulk and float thresholds. > > I have tried to remotely trigger a bulk charge, an eq charge etc. I have > tried remotely rebooting the Mate. Any other things I should try > remotely? I am trying to avoid a long snowcat ride! > > Thanks > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 19:53:24 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:53:24 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> Message-ID: <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> Thanks guys, Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something. Curious that Schneider doesn’t have higher voltage input breakers. > On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Tump wrote: > > I use the SQD fused disco I mount this next to the CC and use the Flex cobra wire for the low DC voltage and the do have breakers for the context for that >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Tom Duffy > wrote: >> >> Hi Mike >> >> No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they’re DIN rail >> >> Tom Duffy >> Senior Solar Design Engineer >> >> Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron’s toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices — not just in the US, but also across the world — are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. >> Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. >> >> tom at solar-biz.com >> MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 >> DIRECT: 888-503-6772 >> International: 001-575-539-2111 >> PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 >> FAX: 520-844-8442 >> www.thesolarbiz.com >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. >> >> From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar >> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM >> To: RE-wrenches > >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 >> >> Wrenches, >> >> Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. >> >> Thanks, >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> Morningstar Electric >> PO Box 1494 >> Mount Shasta, California 96067 >> 530-921-0560 >> CSLB 949635 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> Blair "TUMP" May >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Tue Jan 25 20:03:52 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 01:03:52 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ? In-Reply-To: References: <38263478-F7BB-4DF7-B5BF-46F50D60ED9B@gmail.com> Message-ID: So the issue ended up being , as far as we can tell at this point , a loose neutral connection at the first load distribution panel feeding all loads after the inverter. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Jan 12, 2022, at 3:18 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:  Amos, I installed an MS-4448AE (not PAE) in late 2008 that wouldn't fire up a Buderus hydronic boiler. Ultimately it was replaced with a Lochinvar and that solved the issue. Magnum asked for the Buderus for testing, but that never happened, as once the problem was resolved by the heating contractor it was forgotten. This issue was addressed on this list around 2/10/09, if you'd care to peruse the archives. To make it easier, I'll forward you a few of the emails, including a compendium of Wrenches responses, off list. I'll also note that I have used a MS4024AE in my own home since 2010. It's been flawlessly reliable. However, every time the fridge comes on the lights flicker, especially one chandelier with 6 40W incandescent bulbs on a rotary dimmer. And one client with a MS4448PAE I installed in 2011 complained that while the inverter worked well, anything in his home with a clock built in ran slow and had to be reset at least monthly. Allan On 1/10/2022 1:11 PM, Amos Post wrote: I also have a new (7 month old) PAE system with 2-4448 Inverters (stacked) that we are having some strange issues with. The most troublesome issue is the new Rheem wall-hung LP instant water heater/boiler is throwing an Error Code 12 which is supposedly a “Flame Failure”. It’s a brand new installation with new tanks and lines and the gas guys have doubled checked everything. We are now wondering if it might be related to the power supply. The other indications that it could be related are flickering lights, a 12V battery charger (AC plug in type) that won’t work off inverter power (but will when plugged into the genny, and I’m seeing a little bit of wondering in the Hz on my simple Exeltech volt meter. Magnum recommended a run capacitor on the boiler circuit. I installed that on Friday and still had the error code come up 4 times over the weekend. Any thoughts? Best, Amos Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 ienergyVT.com Facebook On Jan 9, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Ray > wrote: Long runs of URD direct buried? Just a nick into the metal can corrode the cable all the way through over time. We use conduit for almost everything anymore. The savings with URD doesn't pan out, when you have to abandon the line after 10 years. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne we do to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires or have loose connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at the inverters On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez > wrote: Hello we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there. One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs in two of his household appliances. I know it’s common to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition it, in any way ? I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains panel. 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado -- Allan Sindelar allan at sindelarsolar.com (no longer) NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional (as I let it expire after 18+ years) New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE%20LOGO%20150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: IE%20LOGO%20150x78.jpg URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Jan 25 20:49:29 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 17:49:29 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Silent FM100 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mac, For what it’s worth, probably a good idea to make sure that the FN-DC is calibrated correctly as well. Best, -Chris On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 4:36 PM Mac Lewis wrote: > This is an off-grid site. It worked as programmed for about a month... > > I will certainly have a spare if I have to go up. > > Thanks > > On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 11:00 AM Nick A Lucchese > wrote: > >> Greetings Mac, >> >> If it’s a snowcat ride definitely don’t go up there without a new and >> tested controller. I had this happen on a large project last year and >> unfortunately it ended up with an undesirable outcome. The system was >> originally two of the early non AFCI versions that worked fine for 15 >> months and then the client had me double the array by maxing out a large >> garage structure so I therefore added two more of the newer AFCI versions. >> When I went for the final step to commission and closed all the breakers on >> the battery side all four controllers were stuck in Silent. I tried >> everything with no success. I was also getting a “Fault Input Active” error >> as if the RSI initiator had been hit but without any sort of real >> consistency that would go off sometimes. No idea why this happened, all I >> did was completely power down the system so that I can work safely in the >> GSLC’s. To disclose all details, the system did employ their ICS combiner >> solution however the RSI was back in the operational position. After I >> pulled two new FM100’s from my inventory and replaced half of his >> controllers they were convinced I wasn’t just huffed up on goofballs and >> replaced all of them for me. The bummer was the “new” units they sent me >> came from their warranty exchange stock and two of those were dead out of >> the box too! Last year I also had a FNDC that also died from being powered >> down so the unfortunate result to those experiences is that now I’m scared >> to power down the systems anymore! (Yes, I always power down array first >> before battery). >> >> I can fairly say that I spend at least 40 hours a year >> swapping/boxing/shipping/labeling/waiting in line at UPS >> Store/diagnosing/holding for tech support for FM80’s. Not trying to dish on >> Outback, I love them (mostly) and after a couple decades of installing >> their controllers it only makes sense that they’re going to fail but I’ve >> had to learn to really keep up on my procedures to keep track of all the >> failed controllers in my inventory. It’s a constant loop of controllers in >> and out. Starting to see some more Classic failures as well however most of >> them are much older than the Outbacks and Midnite’s RMA process takes less >> than 1/4 of the time it takes to deal with Outback (though they are getting >> better it seems). >> >> Best of luck with the effort Mac! Nick >> >> On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:41 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: >> >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> I have a recently installed Outback system, (Radian, FM100, Mate 3s) that >> was humming along great for about a month but for some reason the FM 100 >> stopped charging. It went through a full charge day, but has stayed in >> Silent state ever since. No event was logged (via Optics at least) and we >> are well within its current and voltage bounds. >> >> I can see ~ 210 V on the PV input via Optics >> We are below rebulk and float thresholds. >> >> I have tried to remotely trigger a bulk charge, an eq charge etc. I have >> tried remotely rebooting the Mate. Any other things I should try >> remotely? I am trying to avoid a long snowcat ride! >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Tue Jan 25 15:02:02 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:02:02 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults Message-ID: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Hello again Wrenches, While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that particular test. Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate the exact moment with the fans. One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the new ground and the failures still occur. I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client sites. Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially speaking for myself)! Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick From william at millersolar.com Tue Jan 25 16:30:32 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 13:30:32 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Charge controller breakers (was Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60.) Message-ID: <12b04fa7ab276093d3a8086aed5ce8d3@mail.gmail.com> Colleagues: Lones, thanks for being in the hot-seat on this and many other Outback related issues. I need to remind myself that I do not know what engineers and product managers have to go through to get products listed and comply with all of the attendant regulations. So when some application does not make sense, it may be because of bureaucracy I am not familiar with. Also, if sometimes it seems like I am whining or nit-picking, please remember I consider Outback to be the best off-grid equipment on the market. I strive for excellence in my work and sometimes to get that I have to ask lots of questions. Let me stipulate that I am not going to start installing 300 volt rated inverter breakers on systems with FM100 charge controllers. I don’t think any other wrench is going to do that and it does not seem Lones is suggesting that. I am willing to install an FM100 in the same system with and FM60 or FM80. I will use external GFDI protection. However, in reviewing the Outback installation manuals, it is not clear how the GFDI breakers are installed and sized. Different manuals show different wiring diagrams and different breaker sizing specifications. Here is a breakdown of what I found and what I decided for my own projects: GFDI breaker placement: Various Outback manuals for the GFDI breakers and charge controllers show the GFDI being placed either before or after the charge controller. I checked the NEC and the requirement is this: either the current carrying conductors of the faulted circuit be disconnected or the inverter or charge controller cease supplying power. It is important to remember these GFDI circuits do not resolve a ground fault, they just let the system user know (somewhat vaguely, I might add) that something is wrong. The user only knows, eventually, that PV charging has stopped. I believe either NEC requirement is met with the GFDI either before or after the charge controller, so I will suit myself on a case-by-case basis. Combiner breakers will act as manual PV disconnecting means. Multiple GFDI breakers: What if you need more than 4 charge controllers, or you need GFDI breakers of different values? Either scenario requires more than one GFDI breaker assembly. If you install more than one GFDI and wire them each as indicated-- with one side of each 0.5 amp sense pole to the negative and the other to ground, you are paralleling the sense poles. Theoretically, this allows double the fault current (for two GFDI breakers, triple for three, etc.). Is this OK? This wiring does mean if one GFDI trips, all trip. You could wire the sense breakers in series and maintain the 0.5 amp trip level, but likely only one GFDI will trip in a fault. I have not decided which method I would recommend. Anyone have an opinion? Breaker sizing: Outback manuals give conflicting advice on breaker sizing. In the old days I had applied the 125% rule to the CC nameplate and put this sized breaker before and after the charge controller. After some thought, I conclude this is not correct. There are different criteria for input and output breaker sizing, as indicated: Input breakers: Proper design would have you calculate 125% the Isc of the connected PV array and pick a breaker the next standard size up from that value. That breaker must have a voltage rating greater than the highest Voc at the coldest possible temperature. Output breakers: CC output breakers will never be subjected to Isc currents. If there is a short circuit in the output side of a charge controller, the large ampacity of the battery bank will open the output breaker. I suggest that the proper sizing method is to use the nameplate wattage of the attached PV array and divide that by the lowest expected battery voltage. This gives the highest possible Imp. Multiply that by 125% and pick the next larger breaker. That breaker must be voltage rated greater than the highest battery voltage expected. Documents missing from the Outback web site: I looked all over and I cannot find these documents: A current version of the GFDI installation manual. Any listing of the GFDI breakers currently available from Outback. Am I not looking in the right place? I hope the above discussion helps you detail-oriented PV designers out there. I am hoping Lones can provide some input on these subjects. Lones has been very on top of his responsibilities and I am grateful to him. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Tuss, Lones *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 9:39 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. Ahh the can of worms get opened. In our conversation Willian brought up the same points. All true, but the white paper was required by legal (CYA). I think getting the new unit listed also came into play. *From:* RE-wrenches *On Behalf Of *Maverick Brown *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 9:29 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Using that logic, wouldn’t the inverters and batteries also be exposed to 300Vdc? And the MX60 would also be at risk for exposing the inverters and batteries to 150Vdc under similar failures? If that’s the only limiting factor, I’d like to take back a couple AC Coupling arrangements I have made for past Radian expansions. ;-) Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* * • Solar Commander Remote Power* * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Jan 21, 2022, at 11:15 AM, Tuss, Lones wrote:  Hi William Thank you for taking my call. I believe the reason we do not recommend mixing the FM100 and the fM60/80 is. If the FM100 were to short out pv input to output you could expose the 150 volt rated dc breakers on the FM60/80 to 300 vdc. *From:* RE-wrenches *On Behalf Of *William Miller *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:54 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Mixing Outback FM100 CC with Fm80 or 60. *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Friends: I am sure many of you are familiar with the somewhat new Outback FM100 charge controller. It allows PV input at up to 300 volts and battery feed at up to 100 amps. It has a built in GFDI fuse, much like the old XW--now branded I think Conextant-- charge controller. Outback recommends against installing an FM 100 in an installation with FM60s or FM 80s. Here is the tech note that gives that recommendation. Below is one paragraph from that tech note. *There is little benefit to mixing an FM100 with an FM60/80. If circumstances require it, this application* *note will explore an option.* Note the language is pretty dang squirrely. Let’s parse the above paragraph: Sentence 1: I submit there may be many scenarios where there is significant benefit: Like if you already have an FM60/80 and you want to add more PV and you want to enjoy the benefits of an FM100, such as higher input voltage or higher output amperage, and not have to fork out an extra $1000 to replace a working FM60/80. Or you installing more than one PV array, one array nearby and/or smaller and one further away or larger, and you don’t want to spend close to $1,000 to charge control the nearer array. Sentence 2: They are offering “an option,” not the only option. I believe there are multiple options. In a mixed installation, the FM100 can rely on its internal GFDI fuse and the FM60 or 80 can rely on the old familiar GFDI breaker with the 1 or 0.5 amp pole connected between the negative and equipment grounding system. Alternatively, Midnite sells a 300 volt rated, multi-pole GFDI breaker that could be shared by an FM100 and an F60/80. It says right in the FM100 manual that you can use external GFDI devices (page 14). I am not at all clear as to what problem there is to mixing the two generations of charge controllers. I reviewed the NEC. There is no indication that thou shall not mix GFDI styles. If anyone has a definitive reason why or why not to mix these models of Outback charge controllers, I would be most interested. Most Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Jan 26 03:38:54 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 02:38:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> References: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Message-ID: <70B17600-F081-4BFA-9ED4-40FBF100E962@mavericksolar.com> What kind of fans? And are they large? On the far end of the 1300’ run? Sounds like hat 1300’ foot run is acting like an inductive whip to the radians. I suggest installing ferrite cores on the dc and ac conductor pairs to attenuate transient spikes. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 26, 2022, at 1:29 AM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > > Hello again Wrenches, > > While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that particular test. > > Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate the exact moment with the fans. > > One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the new ground and the failures still occur. > > I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client sites. > > Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially speaking for myself)! > > Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 07:57:22 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 05:57:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> References: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Message-ID: Hi Nick, Do you have any rapid shutdown equipment on the arrays? The only charge controller (Midnite CLassic) that we have ever had that failed with a short on PV Input, had the Tigo Shutdown boxes on them (TS4-AF). I have always been curious if that failure mode was due to the Tigo signal somehow. To me, the consistent failure mode of the short on the PV input is an important clue to someone (not me) as to what is happening. I was always under the impression that the isolation transformers in the inverter did a good job filtering arc faults on the AC side but that 1500' wire run is a huge antenna! Good Luck out there! On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:29 AM Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Hello again Wrenches, > > While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice > on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure > I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system > consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 > KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended > max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago > without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now > but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s > failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the > controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely > gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other > controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for > a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with > the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s > temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything > starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure > unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When > the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more > frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would > fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that > particular test. > > Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to > see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had > kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s > and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because > the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without > the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s > changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various > reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they > often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on > Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate > the exact moment with the fans. > > One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial > install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his > other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without > pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two > sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from > any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I > have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain > if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long > run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My > preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of > common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would > not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other > day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I > could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision > not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need > to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously > expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely > frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the > new ground and the failures still occur. > > I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would > require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings > and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical > differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp > GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so > feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are > concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will > have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same > system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix > approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client > sites. > > Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper > prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but > perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something > I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD > (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself > asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to > balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have > impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his > meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially > speaking for myself)! > > Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Wed Jan 26 11:28:32 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 16:28:32 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Silent FM100 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mac Thank you for sending me the Optics site name I was able to find some info on the FM100 situation. There was an arc fault at 01/20/22 6:34 AM The FM worked until that point in time. Arc fault can be difficult especially in remote situations. I believe the FM 100 arc fault works well. I am not aware of any related issues. The manuals states that both PV+ and PV- wires be routed through the Rogowski coil in opposite directions This helps to reduce (hopefully eliminate) false readings. Unfortunately the fault has to be reset manually. Below are some screen shot from Optics [cid:image001.png at 01D8128C.E5B9A560] 18th 19th 20th [cid:image002.png at 01D8128C.E5B9A560] https://outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/charge_controllers/flexmax_100_afci/fm100_afci_manual.pdf see page 21 on arc fault page 57 [cid:image003.png at 01D8128C.E5B9A560] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Mac Lewis Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:42 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Silent FM100 CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hello Wrenches, I have a recently installed Outback system, (Radian, FM100, Mate 3s) that was humming along great for about a month but for some reason the FM 100 stopped charging. It went through a full charge day, but has stayed in Silent state ever since. No event was logged (via Optics at least) and we are well within its current and voltage bounds. I can see ~ 210 V on the PV input via Optics We are below rebulk and float thresholds. I have tried to remotely trigger a bulk charge, an eq charge etc. I have tried remotely rebooting the Mate. Any other things I should try remotely? I am trying to avoid a long snowcat ride! Thanks -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 258873 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 11:30:17 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 08:30:17 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> References: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Message-ID: Wrenches Here is a quick tip regarding Outback and the ghost arc fault, this can apply to either pre-wired or wire on site Radian Power Panels, you will need to look at the charge controller and first loosen each of the screw down wire clamps with good light and a clear view slowly pull the wire back if you see crimping on the insulation this is a very possible source of the fault, do this inspection to all charger connections and when retorqing make sure you stay back from the insulation. The arc is due to the wire not being properly connected resulting in both overheating of the connection and /or arcing of the very close proximity of the wires to the terminal. Simple solution to remedy the issue, I have sent pics into Outback and they are investigating but I am sure it will take time to confirm. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 11:29 PM Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Hello again Wrenches, > > While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice > on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure > I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system > consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 > KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended > max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago > without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now > but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s > failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the > controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely > gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other > controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for > a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with > the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s > temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything > starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure > unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When > the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more > frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would > fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that > particular test. > > Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to > see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had > kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s > and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because > the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without > the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s > changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various > reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they > often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on > Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate > the exact moment with the fans. > > One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial > install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his > other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without > pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two > sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from > any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I > have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain > if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long > run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My > preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of > common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would > not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other > day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I > could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision > not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need > to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously > expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely > frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the > new ground and the failures still occur. > > I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would > require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings > and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical > differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp > GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so > feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are > concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will > have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same > system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix > approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client > sites. > > Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper > prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but > perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something > I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD > (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself > asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to > balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have > impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his > meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially > speaking for myself)! > > Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Wed Jan 26 12:10:06 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:10:06 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: References: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Message-ID: Thanks Alan, Mac, Jerry and Maverick. Alan, I like your idea of replacing all the FM80’s with Classics. I have had one Classic loaner recently fail there but to be fair I’ve been using it at random sites for years and it has a 2014 manu date so I’m okay with it’s years of service. Maybe I can find a deal on a half dozen of them from the recent DC Solar auctions. All the PV lands on a designated shunt so even though I’d lose some of the granularity in Opticsre I’d still be able to see the sum of current. I think perhaps all of those Classics from DC Solar don’t have internet connectivity either? Maverick, yes they are at the end of the 1300’ run. I’ve not gone into his building over there in a long time to check the fans but will do so next time I’m out there. Thanks for the ferrite core suggestion too. Seems like an affordable effort at this point. Mac, no Tigo’s on this job since it’s an Ironridge SGA ground mount. Yes I’ve been picturing that long run as a huge antenna as well. It now makes me realize that is something else unique about this site is it’s long wire run itself in addition to the lack of ground. Can’t think of any other off grid sites of mine with such a significant run. Jerry, I’ve been through all the connections but always helps to keep looking for the fine details. I will say getting the #4 into the Classic's terminals is a bit frustrating especially with a conductor that’s been in and out a few times, been wishing that part of their controller would get an upgrade for years. I’ve had to trim off the ends and shorten the conductor every time to get a connection with integrity. Going to have to replace the conductor to the 100 amp GFP if this keeps up. Thanks for the thoughts. I think the next logical attempt to suppress the spikes will be trying the ferrites as Mac suggested. Hope you all have a great day out there. Off to work, Nick > On Jan 26, 2022, at 4:57 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > > Hi Nick, > > Do you have any rapid shutdown equipment on the arrays? The only charge controller (Midnite CLassic) that we have ever had that failed with a short on PV Input, had the Tigo Shutdown boxes on them (TS4-AF). I have always been curious if that failure mode was due to the Tigo signal somehow. > > To me, the consistent failure mode of the short on the PV input is an important clue to someone (not me) as to what is happening. I was always under the impression that the isolation transformers in the inverter did a good job filtering arc faults on the AC side but that 1500' wire run is a huge antenna! > > Good Luck out there! > > > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:29 AM Nick A Lucchese > wrote: > Hello again Wrenches, > > While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that particular test. > > Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate the exact moment with the fans. > > One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the new ground and the failures still occur. > > I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client sites. > > Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially speaking for myself)! > > Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Jan 26 12:52:05 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:52:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> References: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Message-ID: <8278de68b71c372a05082d0acdc28a63@mail.gmail.com> Aw shucks, Nick, thanks for the compliment. I am not sure it is justified here because I have not experienced the failure scenario you have with this system. I must return the compliment in that it appears your approach to troubleshooting has been very diligent. Here are a few ideas off the top of my head, in no particular order: · If you think you are overworking the FM80s, ask yourself if the failures might have occurred outside of peak sun hours. If so, overdriving is likely not the problem. If you can't determine this, try shutting off part of the PV input to each controller temporarily to see if the failures abate. It may be the input section of the FM80s is working hard and an arc fault causes a spike to ripple through to the FM80 input, causing a failure on the input, said failure I think being what you are experiencing.. · I think the E-gauge might have some form of THD logging. I could be wrong here, but check it out and see if there is some load-induced waveform distortion that might be contributory. · You could rent an AC power quality monitor to log potential AC power issues. · It's a long time since I looked at data loggers, but could you log the PV voltages to see if there are spikes on that side of the system? · If you think FM100s will solve the problem, don’t assume you need to rewire the arrays or upgrade breakers. If you drop in FM100s as direct replacement for the FM80s you are still operating in the sub 150 VDC realm. I know this is an expensive repair, but if it seems justified it is less expensive than a stress-induced heart attack.. · Often times resolving an intermittent like this is a process of trial and error. Pulling a ground conductor on that long feeder is no guaranteed fix, but sometimes you got try everything you can. · Someone else may have suggested this, but instead of pulling a ground you could install an isolation transformer to reestablish the grounding. Some sound companies have these for rent. United Rents shows some models on their website. Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick A Lucchese Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:02 PM To: rE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults Hello again Wrenches, While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that particular test. Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate the exact moment with the fans. One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the new ground and the failures still occur. I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client sites. Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially speaking for myself)! Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 12:37:31 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:37:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It’s the gfi breaker that’s tripping right? There is another possibility. I’ve seen extremely high loads with weak batteries cause the capacitors in the CC to dump causing the breakers to trip. One easy fix is to install more wire between the CC and the battery or a smaller size, within ampacity ratings of course. It acts like a choke and the CC can’t dump as fast, it’s worked for me many times in the past. Another option would be to install soft start controls on the fans, and /or delay timers so they don’t all turn on at the same time. As to the classic not tripping, it’s got a special circuit inside that prevents this dumping of the capacitors. Jay > On Jan 26, 2022, at 10:10 AM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > > Thanks Alan, Mac, Jerry and Maverick. Alan, I like your idea of replacing all the FM80’s with Classics. I have had one Classic loaner recently fail there but to be fair I’ve been using it at random sites for years and it has a 2014 manu date so I’m okay with it’s years of service. Maybe I can find a deal on a half dozen of them from the recent DC Solar auctions. All the PV lands on a designated shunt so even though I’d lose some of the granularity in Opticsre I’d still be able to see the sum of current. I think perhaps all of those Classics from DC Solar don’t have internet connectivity either? > > Maverick, yes they are at the end of the 1300’ run. I’ve not gone into his building over there in a long time to check the fans but will do so next time I’m out there. Thanks for the ferrite core suggestion too. Seems like an affordable effort at this point. > > Mac, no Tigo’s on this job since it’s an Ironridge SGA ground mount. Yes I’ve been picturing that long run as a huge antenna as well. It now makes me realize that is something else unique about this site is it’s long wire run itself in addition to the lack of ground. Can’t think of any other off grid sites of mine with such a significant run. > > Jerry, I’ve been through all the connections but always helps to keep looking for the fine details. I will say getting the #4 into the Classic's terminals is a bit frustrating especially with a conductor that’s been in and out a few times, been wishing that part of their controller would get an upgrade for years. I’ve had to trim off the ends and shorten the conductor every time to get a connection with integrity. Going to have to replace the conductor to the 100 amp GFP if this keeps up. > > Thanks for the thoughts. I think the next logical attempt to suppress the spikes will be trying the ferrites as Mac suggested. Hope you all have a great day out there. Off to work, Nick > > >> On Jan 26, 2022, at 4:57 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: >> >> Hi Nick, >> >> Do you have any rapid shutdown equipment on the arrays? The only charge controller (Midnite CLassic) that we have ever had that failed with a short on PV Input, had the Tigo Shutdown boxes on them (TS4-AF). I have always been curious if that failure mode was due to the Tigo signal somehow. >> >> To me, the consistent failure mode of the short on the PV input is an important clue to someone (not me) as to what is happening. I was always under the impression that the isolation transformers in the inverter did a good job filtering arc faults on the AC side but that 1500' wire run is a huge antenna! >> >> Good Luck out there! >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:29 AM Nick A Lucchese wrote: >>> Hello again Wrenches, >>> >>> While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that particular test. >>> >>> Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate the exact moment with the fans. >>> >>> One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the new ground and the failures still occur. >>> >>> I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client sites. >>> >>> Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially speaking for myself)! >>> >>> Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Jan 26 13:04:49 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:04:49 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> Message-ID: Michael: This seems like a rather stunning oversight—offering a charge controller without any means to integrate it into the BOS built by the same manufacturer. Just now I laid a 600 VDC rated touch-safe fuse holder over a QOU breaker. The fuse holder is smaller than the breaker so it would fit in the PDP. The fuse holder would be a bit recessed which may look awkward and impede the opening of the fuse holder. I do know you can buy DIN rail of varying height. Maybe you could drill out the rivets on the DIN rail and replace a short section of it with high profile DIN Rail and make a somewhat elegant solution??? Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:53 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Thanks guys, Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something. Curious that Schneider doesn’t have higher voltage input breakers. On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Tump wrote: I use the SQD fused disco I mount this next to the CC and use the Flex cobra wire for the low DC voltage and the do have breakers for the context for that On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Tom Duffy wrote: Hi Mike No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they’re DIN rail *Tom Duffy* *Senior Solar Design Engineer* Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron’s toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices — not just in the US, but also across the world — are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. *tom at solar-biz.com * *MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939* *DIRECT:* *888-503-6772* *International:* *001-575-539-2111* *PANAMA:* *507-836-5588 X 122* *FAX: 520-844-8442* *www.thesolarbiz.com * CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. *From:* RE-wrenches *On Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Wrenches, Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. Thanks, Michael *Michael Morningstar* *Morningstar Electric* PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org *Tump 3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* Solarwinds Northernlights * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* * 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 * *Blair "TUMP" May* * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org *Michael Morningstar* *Morningstar Electric* PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Wed Jan 26 14:14:57 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 11:14:57 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> Message-ID: <338c7a5efdad497c709cdf9b972851ea@127.0.0.1> It is 600vdc ! Do you want that in a PDP with your 48Vdc and 120/240vac? I do not believe it to be UL listed for 600vdc in there, and so you are breaking some pretty big rules here. I do not post much anymore here. Keep 600vdc out of the PDP and for Offgrid we always want high reliability. Just good design practice! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:04:49 -0800, William Miller wrote: Michael: This seems like a rather stunning oversight--offering a charge controller without any means to integrate it into the BOS built by the same manufacturer. Just now I laid a 600 VDC rated touch-safe fuse holder over a QOU breaker. The fuse holder is smaller than the breaker so it would fit in the PDP. The fuse holder would be a bit recessed which may look awkward and impede the opening of the fuse holder. I do know you can buy DIN rail of varying height. Maybe you could drill out the rivets on the DIN rail and replace a short section of it with high profile DIN Rail and make a somewhat elegant solution??? Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com [3] CA Lic. 773985 FROM: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [4]] ON BEHALF OF Michael Morningstar SENT: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:53 PM TO: RE-wrenches SUBJECT: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Thanks guys, Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Curious that Schneider doesn't have higher voltage input breakers. On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Tump wrote: I use the SQD fused disco I mount this next to the CC and use the Flex cobra wire for the low DC voltage and the do have breakers for the context for that On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Tom Duffy wrote: Hi Mike No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they're DIN rail TOM DUFFY _SENIOR SOLAR DESIGN ENGINEER_ Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron's toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices -- not just in the US, but also across the world -- are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 INTERNATIONAL: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. FROM: RE-wrenches ON BEHALF OF Michael Morningstar SENT: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM TO: RE-wrenches SUBJECT: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Wrenches, Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. Thanks, Michael MICHAEL MORNINGSTAR _Morningstar Electric_ PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [9] List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org [10] Change listserver email address ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [11] There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [12] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [13] List rules ">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [14] Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [15] WWW.SWNL.NET [16] Solarwinds Northernlights _ _ _ SERVING MID COAST MAINE "> _ 207-832-7574 CL. 610-517-8401 _ _ __BLAIR "TUMP" MAY_ ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [17] List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org [18] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [19] There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [20] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [21] List rules "> MICHAEL MORNINGSTAR _Morningstar Electric_ PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net [3] http://www.millersolar.com/ [4] mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [5] mailto:tump at swnl.net [6] mailto:Tom at solar-biz.com [7] mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [8] mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org [9] http://re-wrenches.org/ [10] mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org [11] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [12] https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [13] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [14] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [15] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ [16] http://webmail.sti.net/blocked::http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/ [17] http://re-wrenches.org [18] mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org [19] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [20] https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [21] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [22] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [23] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Jan 26 15:11:36 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 12:11:36 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: <338c7a5efdad497c709cdf9b972851ea@127.0.0.1> References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> <338c7a5efdad497c709cdf9b972851ea@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <14cf1c0c59b1f7c70c499f707fab8b6c@mail.gmail.com> Dave: With all due respect, I don’t see this as an issue. All of our building wire is rated at 600 volts. If you segregate your OPCD, work neatly and bundle your various lead groupings I think it is perfectly safe. If one is real paranoid, you could rivet in some partitions or more simply, sleeve the 600 VDC leads in NMLT. I looked all through the documentation for the cabinets and no voltage rating is given. We cannot assume the rating is a limitation until we find one. Let us all know if you are privy to this detail. I would not hesitate to integrate the 600 volt rated Conext branded charge controllers into Conext branded BOS cabinets as long as the workmanship is good. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar [mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:15 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 It is 600vdc ! Do you want that in a PDP with your 48Vdc and 120/240vac? I do not believe it to be UL listed for 600vdc in there, and so you are breaking some pretty big rules here. I do not post much anymore here. Keep 600vdc out of the PDP and for Offgrid we always want high reliability. Just good design practice! *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* *"we go where powerlines don't"* *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ * *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net * *text 209 813 0060* On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:04:49 -0800, William Miller wrote: Michael: This seems like a rather stunning oversight—offering a charge controller without any means to integrate it into the BOS built by the same manufacturer. Just now I laid a 600 VDC rated touch-safe fuse holder over a QOU breaker. The fuse holder is smaller than the breaker so it would fit in the PDP. The fuse holder would be a bit recessed which may look awkward and impede the opening of the fuse holder. I do know you can buy DIN rail of varying height. Maybe you could drill out the rivets on the DIN rail and replace a short section of it with high profile DIN Rail and make a somewhat elegant solution??? Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:53 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Thanks guys, Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Curious that Schneider doesn't have higher voltage input breakers. On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Tump wrote: I use the SQD fused disco I mount this next to the CC and use the Flex cobra wire for the low DC voltage and the do have breakers for the context for that On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Tom Duffy wrote: Hi Mike No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they're DIN rail *Tom Duffy* *Senior Solar Design Engineer* Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron's toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices — not just in the US, but also across the world — are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. *tom at solar-biz.com * *MAIN TOLL FREE:* *888-826-0939* *DIRECT: 888-503-6772* *International:* *001-575-539-2111* *PANAMA:* *507-836-5588 X 122* *FAX: 520-844-8442* *www.thesolarbiz.com * CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. *From:* RE-wrenches *On Behalf Of* Michael Morningstar *Sent:* Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Wrenches, Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. Thanks, Michael *Michael Morningstar* *Morningstar Electric* PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org *Tump 3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* Solarwinds Northernlights * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* * 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 * *Blair "TUMP" May* * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ********* * NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org *Michael Morningstar* *Morningstar Electric* PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Wed Jan 26 16:10:12 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:10:12 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: <14cf1c0c59b1f7c70c499f707fab8b6c@mail.gmail.com> References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> <338c7a5efdad497c709cdf9b972851ea@127.0.0.1> <14cf1c0c59b1f7c70c499f707fab8b6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I looked up the CSA record for the XW PDP and it shows: - Maximum System Voltage (DC) 150V dc - Maximum Battery System Voltage 62 V dc (48V nominal) - Maximum System Voltage (AC) 140/280V ac *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 12:53, William Miller wrote: > Dave: > > > > With all due respect, I don’t see this as an issue. All of our building > wire is rated at 600 volts. If you segregate your OPCD, work neatly and > bundle your various lead groupings I think it is perfectly safe. If one is > real paranoid, you could rivet in some partitions or more simply, sleeve > the 600 VDC leads in NMLT. > > > > I looked all through the documentation for the cabinets and no voltage > rating is given. We cannot assume the rating is a limitation until we find > one. Let us all know if you are privy to this detail. > > > > I would not hesitate to integrate the 600 volt rated Conext branded charge > controllers into Conext branded BOS cabinets as long as the workmanship is > good. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar [mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:15 AM > *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 > > > > It is 600vdc ! Do you want that in a PDP with your 48Vdc and 120/240vac? > I do not believe it to be UL listed for 600vdc in there, and so you are > breaking some pretty big rules here. I do not post much anymore here. Keep > 600vdc out of the PDP and for Offgrid we always want high reliability. Just > good design practice! > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar* > > *"we go where powerlines don't"* > > *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ * > > *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net * > > *text 209 813 0060* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Wed Jan 26 16:19:48 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (Pieter Huebner) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:19:48 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901d812fa$730808e0$59181aa0$@offgridenterprises.org> I must caution those who are considering the use of touch safe fuse holders in distribution panels. If one of those fuse holders were to be opened under load you will very likely have a fire. Always be sure to only install touch safe fuse holders in such a manner that they cannot be opened by un trained personnel, Those fuse holders are not load break rated. Pieter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 12:05 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Michael: This seems like a rather stunning oversight—offering a charge controller without any means to integrate it into the BOS built by the same manufacturer. Just now I laid a 600 VDC rated touch-safe fuse holder over a QOU breaker. The fuse holder is smaller than the breaker so it would fit in the PDP. The fuse holder would be a bit recessed which may look awkward and impede the opening of the fuse holder. I do know you can buy DIN rail of varying height. Maybe you could drill out the rivets on the DIN rail and replace a short section of it with high profile DIN Rail and make a somewhat elegant solution??? Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org ] On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Thanks guys, Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something. Curious that Schneider doesn’t have higher voltage input breakers. On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Tump > wrote: I use the SQD fused disco I mount this next to the CC and use the Flex cobra wire for the low DC voltage and the do have breakers for the context for that On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Tom Duffy > wrote: Hi Mike No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they’re DIN rail Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron’s toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices — not just in the US, but also across the world — are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. tom at solar-biz.com MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 International: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 www.thesolarbiz.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Wrenches, Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. Thanks, Michael Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net Solarwinds Northernlights Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 Blair "TUMP" May ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 181790 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 17:05:56 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 14:05:56 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wrenches Midnite has them so ask your gut to get them on board, I have gotten them before Jerry On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 10:08 AM Michael Morningstar < mjmorningstar at gmail.com> wrote: > Wrenches, > > Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that > would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider > only offers breakers up to 160VDC. > > Thanks, > Michael > > > > > *Michael **Morningstar* > > * Morningstar Electric* > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com Wed Jan 26 17:29:03 2022 From: jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com (Jeremy Coxon) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:29:03 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’m facing this same issue. In the past we’ve used the old SQD disco’s near the inverter and fuses in combiners near the array, but they’re big and expensive. Anyone used these or see any issue with these: https://www.industrialcontroldirect.com/dc-disconnect-si16-pel64r-4-p-4080.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA_8OPBhDtARIsAKQu0gYOEY75OrhrQHsrDVHHCsUd-E6SiYwEcCi1FwY5vWua5iIFl7ovNxMaAroLEALw_wcB Or these: https://www.industrialcontroldirect.com/dc-disconnects-316/panel-mount-dc-switch-421/?zenid=bo3nrdji7umkvsr93hslphj4g4 Seems like a nice clean and not terribly expensive option. Totally agree that Schneider should have provided us with a solution in the PDP. Best Regards, Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21 MWBE Certified On Jan 26, 2022, at 4:19 PM, re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org You can reach the person managing the list at re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. Re: High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 (Pieter Huebner) From: "Pieter Huebner" > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Date: January 26, 2022 at 4:19:48 PM EST To: >, "'RE-wrenches'" > I must caution those who are considering the use of touch safe fuse holders in distribution panels. If one of those fuse holders were to be opened under load you will very likely have a fire. Always be sure to only install touch safe fuse holders in such a manner that they cannot be opened by un trained personnel, Those fuse holders are not load break rated. Pieter From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 12:05 PM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Michael: This seems like a rather stunning oversight—offering a charge controller without any means to integrate it into the BOS built by the same manufacturer. Just now I laid a 600 VDC rated touch-safe fuse holder over a QOU breaker. The fuse holder is smaller than the breaker so it would fit in the PDP. The fuse holder would be a bit recessed which may look awkward and impede the opening of the fuse holder. I do know you can buy DIN rail of varying height. Maybe you could drill out the rivets on the DIN rail and replace a short section of it with high profile DIN Rail and make a somewhat elegant solution??? Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org ] On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Thanks guys, Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something. Curious that Schneider doesn’t have higher voltage input breakers. On Jan 25, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Tump > wrote: I use the SQD fused disco I mount this next to the CC and use the Flex cobra wire for the low DC voltage and the do have breakers for the context for that On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:04 PM, Tom Duffy > wrote: Hi Mike No breakers I know of that fit the Conext boxes but you could use a MidNite Big Baby and a MidNite 600 volt breaker in it or even a touch safe 1000 volt fuse and holder they’re DIN rail Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron’s toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices — not just in the US, but also across the world — are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. tom at solar-biz.com MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 International: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 www.thesolarbiz.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:02 PM To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 Wrenches, Can anyone direct me to PV input breakers that are rated up to 600VDC that would work in a Conext Distribution Panel? From what I can tell, Schneider only offers breakers up to 160VDC. Thanks, Michael Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net Solarwinds Northernlights Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 Blair "TUMP" May ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SWPS 16yr Logo copy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 14371 bytes Desc: not available URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Wed Jan 26 18:03:14 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 15:03:14 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 In-Reply-To: References: <573077A9-D613-43EC-AD5B-FE661BC3EC90@gmail.com> <1DAC958E-292A-4020-80C3-092C2C8B2A8F@swnl.net> <6B936067-910D-498C-88F9-85EE537C7275@gmail.com> <338c7a5efdad497c709cdf9b972851ea@127.0.0.1> <14cf1c0c59b1f7c70c499f707fab8b6c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16dbac726f67061f0382e4c14fb6b702@127.0.0.1> Eric, definitely what I had seen when we offgrid field tested the mppt- 80 in 2010 ! Totally bullet proof charger and the SQD disco shows there are 127 on the west coast for $115 HU361RB. Typically this is outside and protected where it belongs. It is fine next to the mppt if needed. Just do not land 600vdc in the PDP if you want code compliance and safety of the power system. The newer Mppt-100-600 is just as robust. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 13:10:12 -0800, Eric Smiley wrote: I looked up the CSA record for the XW PDP and it shows: * Maximum System Voltage (DC) 150V dc * Maximum Battery System Voltage 62 V dc (48V nominal) * Maximum System Voltage (AC) 140/280V ac ERIC SMILEY, Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca [3] T: 250.703.6004 [4] T: 888.386.0116 [5] On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 12:53, William Miller wrote: Dave: With all due respect, I don't see this as an issue. All of our building wire is rated at 600 volts. If you segregate your OPCD, work neatly and bundle your various lead groupings I think it is perfectly safe. If one is real paranoid, you could rivet in some partitions or more simply, sleeve the 600 VDC leads in NMLT. I looked all through the documentation for the cabinets and no voltage rating is given. We cannot assume the rating is a limitation until we find one. Let us all know if you are privy to this detail. I would not hesitate to integrate the 600 volt rated Conext branded charge controllers into Conext branded BOS cabinets as long as the workmanship is good. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com [7] CA Lic. 773985 FROM: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar [mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net [8]] SENT: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:15 AM TO: william at millersolar.com [9]; RE-wrenches SUBJECT: Re: [RE-wrenches] High Voltage Breakers for Conext Mppt-80-600 It is 600vdc ! Do you want that in a PDP with your 48Vdc and 120/240vac? I do not believe it to be UL listed for 600vdc in there, and so you are breaking some pretty big rules here. I do not post much anymore here. Keep 600vdc out of the PDP and for Offgrid we always want high reliability. Just good design practice! DAVE ANGELINI OFFGRID SOLAR "WE GO WHERE POWERLINES DON'T" E-MAIL TEXT 209 813 0060 Links: ------ [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net [3] mailto:eric at vecoop.ca [4] http://webmail.sti.net/tel:+12507036004 [5] http://webmail.sti.net/tel:+18883860116 [6] mailto:william at millersolar.com [7] http://www.millersolar.com/ [8] mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net [9] mailto:william at millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: blocked.gif Type: image/gif Size: 118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From reosolar at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 19:16:25 2022 From: reosolar at gmail.com (Aaron Mandelkorn) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 17:16:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help Message-ID: Wrenches, I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Aaron Mandelkorn President / Founder Renewable Energy Outfitters www.reosolar.com Off Grid Depot www.offgridnow.com 970-596-3744 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Wed Jan 26 21:22:32 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 18:22:32 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: <2c341746-bf0a-d973-bb17-afe58c39b9c0@villagelab.net> References: <2c341746-bf0a-d973-bb17-afe58c39b9c0@villagelab.net> Message-ID: <18ce839c-ca8b-ee5c-b575-b35a97285a18@villagepowerdesign.com> HI Aaron, You could stack multiple 24 Volt inverters to achieve more KW and there are plenty of 24 V Lithium battery options. (like Signature Solar, Simpliphi, Discover etc.) If you do go for converting to 48 Volt then depending on how many amps of 24V loads you have (how many is it?) - you might find this helpful: https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters We've had very good luck with Victron DC-DC converters - rock solid and controllable by Victron Blue Tooth App.  Not cheap. Hope that helps, Best, Jeff C. > Aaron Mandelkorn > January 26, 2022 at 4:16 PM > Wrenches, > > I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system.  He wants to > upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank.  There are no options > for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc.  The same goes for > lithium iron batteries.  Everything (of higher wattage and battery > capacity) seems to be in 48v only now.  If going to 48 volts how do I > acomodate the few but important 24v DC loads in the home.  Is a 48v to > 24v step down converter the best option?  What do you think? Any help > would be appreciated.  Thank you. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 26 21:24:43 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 19:24:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Aaron, You can do DC to DC buck converters, but I would suggest cheap and efficient 24V, AC power supplies. It's easy to have some spares around and they can be very reliable. On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:16 PM Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > Wrenches, > > I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to > upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for > inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium > iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems > to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but > important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter > the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank > you. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Wed Jan 26 22:03:05 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 19:03:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6e135a68-f1f1-73a4-f4ba-a63848919712@psln.com> Aaron,             It would be helpful to know how many amps are required to power the 24 volt loads and should we assume the batteries are toast or nearly so?  The brand of inverter?             As Jeff said there are 24V L-ion choices. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 1/26/2022 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > Wrenches, > > I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system.  He wants to > upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank.  There are no options > for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc.  The same goes for > lithium iron batteries.  Everything (of higher wattage and battery > capacity) seems to be in 48v only now.  If going to 48 volts how do I > acomodate the few but important 24v DC loads in the home.  Is a 48v to > 24v step down converter the best option? What do you think? Any help > would be appreciated.  Thank you. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Thu Jan 27 00:26:51 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 21:26:51 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A112D47-DB1B-4DA3-9C75-B822A506E52E@me.com> Greetings Aaron, The Iota DLS AC to DC converters work well too. You would also gain programmable low voltage protection for the DC loads since the converter lives on the AC output of the inverter. They still make 15, 25 amp 40 amp options I believe. I’ve had one running my 24vdc Sunpump booster for years. Nick > On Jan 26, 2022, at 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > > Wrenches, > > I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Jan 27 08:20:52 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 06:20:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <97EC67E6-6A97-4684-BA88-20A58360F618@solarwork.com> I have a 48 V system at my home and I have an older son Frost 24 V DC battery based freezer that is supported by a IOTA battery charger power supply it’s worked flawlessly since the day I put it together nearly 22 years ago the IOTA chargers come in a variety of sizes depending on your needs Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Jan 26, 2022, at 7:25 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: > >  > Hi Aaron, > > You can do DC to DC buck converters, but I would suggest cheap and efficient 24V, AC power supplies. It's easy to have some spares around and they can be very reliable. > > > >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 5:16 PM Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >> Wrenches, >> >> I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. >> >> Aaron Mandelkorn >> President / Founder >> Renewable Energy Outfitters >> www.reosolar.com >> Off Grid Depot >> www.offgridnow.com >> 970-596-3744 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reosolar at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 12:09:09 2022 From: reosolar at gmail.com (Aaron Mandelkorn) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:09:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: <6e135a68-f1f1-73a4-f4ba-a63848919712@psln.com> References: <6e135a68-f1f1-73a4-f4ba-a63848919712@psln.com> Message-ID: All, I will do a load analysis for the 24v loads. I am looking to get around 800ah of LI storage at 24v. I typically use the larger 48v batteries from fortress. The space constraints will not allow for a wall full of small 50ah 24v units. I am not finding much selection of 24v 200ah+ options. Is sounds like most of the advice I am getting is towards not upgrading to 48v. Aaron Mandelkorn President / Founder Renewable Energy Outfitters www.reosolar.com Off Grid Depot www.offgridnow.com 970-596-3744 On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:59 PM frenergy wrote: > Aaron, > > It would be helpful to know how many amps are required to > power the 24 volt loads and should we assume the batteries are toast or > nearly so? The brand of inverter? > > As Jeff said there are 24V L-ion choices. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > > On 1/26/2022 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > > Wrenches, > > I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to > upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for > inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium > iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems > to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but > important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter > the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank > you. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-2020937635624825215_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Thu Jan 27 12:23:38 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:23:38 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <803B33BA-3DE7-4DB4-8882-C4D6068DEA8D@mavericksolar.com> I’ve installed a few ARK battery 48V, 100ah and they offer a 24V, 200Ah version https://arklithium.com/ Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 27, 2022, at 11:09 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > >  > All, I will do a load analysis for the 24v loads. I am looking to get around 800ah of LI storage at 24v. I typically use the larger 48v batteries from fortress. The space constraints will not allow for a wall full of small 50ah 24v units. I am not finding much selection of 24v 200ah+ options. Is sounds like most of the advice I am getting is towards not upgrading to 48v. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:59 PM frenergy wrote: >> Aaron, >> >> It would be helpful to know how many amps are required to power the 24 volt loads and should we assume the batteries are toast or nearly so? The brand of inverter? >> >> As Jeff said there are 24V L-ion choices. >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, Owner >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 >> CA Lic 874049 >> On 1/26/2022 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >>> Wrenches, >>> >>> I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. >>> >>> Aaron Mandelkorn >>> President / Founder >>> Renewable Energy Outfitters >>> www.reosolar.com >>> Off Grid Depot >>> www.offgridnow.com >>> 970-596-3744 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarwindworks.com Thu Jan 27 12:24:25 2022 From: chris at solarwindworks.com (Chris Worcester) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 09:24:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Aaron, Check out the Battle Born BBGC3 270 Ah 12 vdc LiFePO4,May make sense for you. Chris Worcester chris at solarwindworks.com530-448-9692Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s9. -------- Original message --------From: Aaron Mandelkorn Date: 1/27/22 9:09 AM (GMT-08:00) To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help All,  I will do a load analysis for the 24v loads.  I am looking to get around 800ah of LI storage at 24v.  I typically use the larger 48v batteries from fortress.  The space constraints will not allow for a wall full of small 50ah 24v units. I am not finding much selection of 24v 200ah+ options.  Is sounds like most of the advice I am getting is towards not upgrading to 48v.Aaron MandelkornPresident / FounderRenewable Energy Outfitterswww.reosolar.comOff Grid Depotwww.offgridnow.com970-596-3744On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:59 PM frenergy wrote: Aaron,             It would be helpful to know how many amps are required to power the 24 volt loads and should we assume the batteries are toast or nearly so?  The brand of inverter?             As Jeff said there are 24V L-ion choices. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 1/26/2022 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: Wrenches, I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system.  He wants to upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank.  There are no options for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc.  The same goes for lithium iron batteries.  Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems to be in 48v only now.  If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but important 24v DC loads in the home.  Is a 48v to 24v step down converter the best option?  What do you think? Any help would be appreciated.  Thank you. Aaron Mandelkorn President / Founder Renewable Energy Outfitters www.reosolar.com Off Grid Depot www.offgridnow.com 970-596-3744 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Jan 27 13:53:17 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:53:17 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: References: <6e135a68-f1f1-73a4-f4ba-a63848919712@psln.com> Message-ID: <9447323d-fe6f-2d49-5ef0-9537a691fff8@psln.com> Aaron,             Ain't nothing wrong with going to 48 volt.  It sort of sounded like you wanted to stick with 24 volt but if they want to replace PVs too (which it sounded like in your original post), go 48. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 1/27/2022 9:09 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > All,  I will do a load analysis for the 24v loads.  I am looking to > get around 800ah of LI storage at 24v. I typically use the larger 48v > batteries from fortress.  The space constraints will not allow for a > wall full of small 50ah 24v units. I am not finding much selection of > 24v 200ah+ options.  Is sounds like most of the advice I am getting is > towards not upgrading to 48v. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:59 PM frenergy wrote: > > Aaron, > >             It would be helpful to know how many amps are required > to power the 24 volt loads and should we assume the batteries are > toast or nearly so?  The brand of inverter? > >             As Jeff said there are 24V L-ion choices. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > > On 1/26/2022 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >> Wrenches, >> >> I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system.  He >> wants to upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank.  There are >> no options for inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc.  The >> same goes for lithium iron batteries.  Everything (of higher >> wattage and battery capacity) seems to be in 48v only now.  If >> going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but important 24v DC >> loads in the home.  Is a 48v to 24v step down converter the best >> option?  What do you think? Any help would be appreciated.  Thank >> you. >> >> Aaron Mandelkorn >> President / Founder >> Renewable Energy Outfitters >> www.reosolar.com >> Off Grid Depot >> www.offgridnow.com >> 970-596-3744 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#m_-2020937635624825215_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reosolar at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 13:56:58 2022 From: reosolar at gmail.com (Aaron Mandelkorn) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 11:56:58 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: <9447323d-fe6f-2d49-5ef0-9537a691fff8@psln.com> References: <6e135a68-f1f1-73a4-f4ba-a63848919712@psln.com> <9447323d-fe6f-2d49-5ef0-9537a691fff8@psln.com> Message-ID: I am pushing for 48v. The main concern with doing so are how to best continue to provide 24v power to the 23v circuits. Now I am thinking rather than using a dc stepdown converter, I could potentially use 24v batteries in series/parallel and power the loads directly off of the battery. Not sure how this would throw off the electrical balance of the battery. Thanks all. I appreciate help and direction with this. Looks like there are a few options for me to consider. Aaron Mandelkorn President / Founder Renewable Energy Outfitters www.reosolar.com Off Grid Depot www.offgridnow.com 970-596-3744 On Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 11:49 AM frenergy wrote: > Aaron, > > Ain't nothing wrong with going to 48 volt. It sort of sounded > like you wanted to stick with 24 volt but if they want to replace PVs too > (which it sounded like in your original post), go 48. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > > On 1/27/2022 9:09 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > > All, I will do a load analysis for the 24v loads. I am looking to get > around 800ah of LI storage at 24v. I typically use the larger 48v > batteries from fortress. The space constraints will not allow for a wall > full of small 50ah 24v units. I am not finding much selection of 24v 200ah+ > options. Is sounds like most of the advice I am getting is towards not > upgrading to 48v. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:59 PM frenergy wrote: > >> Aaron, >> >> It would be helpful to know how many amps are required to >> power the 24 volt loads and should we assume the batteries are toast or >> nearly so? The brand of inverter? >> >> As Jeff said there are 24V L-ion choices. >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, Owner >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 >> CA Lic 874049 >> >> On 1/26/2022 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >> >> Wrenches, >> >> I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to >> upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for >> inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium >> iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems >> to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but >> important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter >> the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank >> you. >> >> Aaron Mandelkorn >> President / Founder >> Renewable Energy Outfitters >> www.reosolar.com >> Off Grid Depot >> www.offgridnow.com >> 970-596-3744 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> >> <#m_8144765557031421817_m_-2020937635624825215_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > www.frenergy.net > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Thu Jan 27 15:00:32 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 13:00:32 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: References: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Message-ID: Nick, While I have no idea about those specific Classics from DC Solar, all standard Classics have internet connectivity via either the MidNite Solar Local Application or MyMidnite. Allan On 1/26/2022 10:10 AM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Thanks Alan, Mac, Jerry and Maverick. Alan, I like your idea of > replacing all the FM80’s with Classics. I have had one Classic loaner > recently fail there but to be fair I’ve been using it at random sites > for years and it has a 2014 manu date so I’m okay with it’s years of > service. Maybe I can find a deal on a half dozen of them from the > recent DC Solar auctions. All the PV lands on a designated shunt so > even though I’d lose some of the granularity in Opticsre I’d still be > able to see the sum of current. I think perhaps all of those Classics > from DC Solar don’t have internet connectivity either? > > Thanks for the thoughts. I think the next logical attempt to suppress > the spikes will be trying the ferrites as Mac suggested. Hope you all > have a great day out there. Off to work, Nick > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roy at four-winds-energy.com Thu Jan 27 16:43:04 2022 From: roy at four-winds-energy.com (Roy Butler) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:43:04 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: References: <6C8FDDD1-270F-4EDA-B63F-5C0FDA39C14C@me.com> Message-ID: <3b858a67-91f5-be19-ef90-0f9a6484dc34@four-winds-energy.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Jan 27 13:19:08 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 10:19:08 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? Message-ID: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Colleagues: All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? Thanks in advance. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarwindworks.com Thu Jan 27 17:25:49 2022 From: chris at solarwindworks.com (Chris Worcester) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 14:25:49 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi William, Check out the Marlette Lake water system that gravity feeds Virginia City Nevada, I was able to see this engineering feat first hand,  when called in to size a solar system to help keep the backup water pump's generator battery going. Pretty cool system to say the least. Chris Worcester chris at solarwindworks.com530-448-9692Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s9. -------- Original message --------From: William Miller Date: 1/27/22 1:51 PM (GMT-08:00) To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? Colleagues: All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head.  Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well.  The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation.  The line goes over a 1500’ ridge.  If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? Thanks in advance. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985   -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 17:28:54 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:28:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a vacuum in the pipe. These numbers depend upon the location (elevation) and temperature of the water. for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head. (from my high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet. this is from memory and mine is not so good. On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller wrote: > Colleagues: > > > > All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to > tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a > system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even > than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation > and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ > ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon > to the pond? > > > > Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 19:31:03 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:31:03 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24v to 48v upgrade help In-Reply-To: References: <6e135a68-f1f1-73a4-f4ba-a63848919712@psln.com> <9447323d-fe6f-2d49-5ef0-9537a691fff8@psln.com> Message-ID: Over the years I have *never *seen loads, no matter how small, taken off of a mid point of a battery not cause serious issues with cell balancing. Even with the use of the Vanner equalizer there were always still problems with the battery bank. So I would never do it. When I converted to a 48 volt system I installed an AC to 24VDC power supply for my ElSid circ pumps for the radiant floor. AC to DC converters like the ones from Mean-Well are pretty efficient and inexpensive. If you have larger, or motor loads, you would have to get a larger converter of course. Brad On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:57 AM Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > I am pushing for 48v. The main concern with doing so are how to best > continue to provide 24v power to the 23v circuits. Now I am thinking > rather than using a dc stepdown converter, I could potentially use 24v > batteries in series/parallel and power the loads directly off of the > battery. Not sure how this would throw off the electrical balance of the > battery. Thanks all. I appreciate help and direction with this. Looks > like there are a few options for me to consider. > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 11:49 AM frenergy wrote: > >> Aaron, >> >> Ain't nothing wrong with going to 48 volt. It sort of >> sounded like you wanted to stick with 24 volt but if they want to replace >> PVs too (which it sounded like in your original post), go 48. >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, Owner >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 >> CA Lic 874049 >> >> On 1/27/2022 9:09 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >> >> All, I will do a load analysis for the 24v loads. I am looking to get >> around 800ah of LI storage at 24v. I typically use the larger 48v >> batteries from fortress. The space constraints will not allow for a wall >> full of small 50ah 24v units. I am not finding much selection of 24v 200ah+ >> options. Is sounds like most of the advice I am getting is towards not >> upgrading to 48v. >> >> Aaron Mandelkorn >> President / Founder >> Renewable Energy Outfitters >> www.reosolar.com >> Off Grid Depot >> www.offgridnow.com >> 970-596-3744 >> >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:59 PM frenergy wrote: >> >>> Aaron, >>> >>> It would be helpful to know how many amps are required to >>> power the 24 volt loads and should we assume the batteries are toast or >>> nearly so? The brand of inverter? >>> >>> As Jeff said there are 24V L-ion choices. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Feather River Solar Electric >>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>> 4291 Nelson St. >>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>> 530.284.7849 >>> CA Lic 874049 >>> >>> On 1/26/2022 4:16 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >>> >>> Wrenches, >>> >>> I have a customer with a very old 24v off grid pv system. He wants to >>> upgrade his array, inverter and battery bank. There are no options for >>> inverter/chargers over 4000 watts in 24v dc. The same goes for lithium >>> iron batteries. Everything (of higher wattage and battery capacity) seems >>> to be in 48v only now. If going to 48 volts how do I acomodate the few but >>> important 24v DC loads in the home. Is a 48v to 24v step down converter >>> the best option? What do you think? Any help would be appreciated. Thank >>> you. >>> >>> Aaron Mandelkorn >>> President / Founder >>> Renewable Energy Outfitters >>> www.reosolar.com >>> Off Grid Depot >>> www.offgridnow.com >>> 970-596-3744 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> Virus-free. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> <#m_-7383537340987691532_m_8144765557031421817_m_-2020937635624825215_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- >> www.frenergy.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Jan 27 19:38:36 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:38:36 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: References: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face.  In this case though, you would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved.  If you can fill the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's down slope of the water in the well on the other side of the ridge it would pull the water out of the well and up over that ridge /as long as/ the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well and the pipe's intake.             The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end of the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe /completely/, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, not intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge.  A valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry.  The pipe would have to rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on the uphill section of pipe after it left the well.  There could absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe.             I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: > Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the > water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a > vacuum in the pipe.  These numbers depend upon the location > (elevation) and temperature of the water. > for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, > meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head.  (from my high > school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the > water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet.  this is from > memory and mine is not so good. > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller > wrote: > > Colleagues: > > All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water > to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head.  Just now I am > looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the > well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well.  The 300’ > well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ > elevation.  The line goes over a 1500’ ridge.  If there were > nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? > > Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 19:34:43 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 16:34:43 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: References: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Years ago, and maybe still there, a siphon was used to go over the existing dam on the Pocono reservoir to run a hydro generator. There was a vacuum pump pulling a vacuum at the top of the arch to keep it full of water in case air bubbles got in. They did have to prime it to get it going. I think there are other similar smallish hydro power systems. Darryl is right about how high you can go though. Brad On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 2:29 PM Darryl Thayer wrote: > Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the > water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a vacuum in > the pipe. These numbers depend upon the location (elevation) and > temperature of the water. > for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, > meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head. (from my high > school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the water > column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet. this is from memory and > mine is not so good. > > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller > wrote: > >> Colleagues: >> >> >> >> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to >> tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a >> system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even >> than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation >> and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ >> ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon >> to the pond? >> >> >> >> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> >> William >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 17:23:36 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 15:23:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26387642-FCC5-4F37-8507-F2E7EEFB10DF@gmail.com> Hi William You cannot siphon more than 33’ at sea level, less as you go up in elevation. At 33’ you pull a vacuum and not water. So no you can’t siphon water over those heights. You also have another issue which is the suction in the pipe on the downhill leg. It will try to flow out and as no water is filling the pipe it will create a suction and actually collapse the pipe. You’ll need a air vacuum valve at the top that will allow enough air in to prevent collapse. Sizing would depend on size of the pipe, but bigger is better. So your having to pump up that additional 300’ Jay > On Jan 27, 2022, at 2:51 PM, William Miller wrote: > >  > Colleagues: > > All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? > > Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jan 27 21:14:16 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:14:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Bill Sorry about the egg Here is some actual info to confirm what I and others have said. You cannot vacuum water any more than 33’ at sea level. https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines Jay > On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy wrote: > >  > OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face. In this case though, you would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved. If you can fill the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's down slope of the water in the well on the other side of the ridge it would pull the water out of the well and up over that ridge as long as the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well and the pipe's intake. > > The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end of the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe completely, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, not intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge. A valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry. The pipe would have to rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on the uphill section of pipe after it left the well. There could absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe. > > I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > > > > > On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: >> Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a vacuum in the pipe. These numbers depend upon the location (elevation) and temperature of the water. >> for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head. (from my high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet. this is from memory and mine is not so good. >> >> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller wrote: >>> Colleagues: >>> >>> >>> >>> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? >>> >>> >>> >>> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > www.frenergy.net > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Jan 27 22:13:25 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:13:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is good, I'm not yet willing to accept egg-defeat.  In my previously described scenario, the atmospheric pressure does not play a role because I'm not evacuating the air-filled pipe with the suction side of a pump which /would/ rely on atmospheric pressure to fill the pipe with water as the vacuum increases inside the pipe.             In my scenario the pipe going over the ridge is filled with water from the discharge side of a pump, it could be filled from anywhere in the pipe but there must be an exhaust only air vent at the highest point of the pipe.  Both ends of the pipe must not allow any air in and one end of the pipe must be lower than the other.  Because we are not dealing with a mere 1 atmosphere of pressure (or vacuum in this case), the "pull" of the water on the lower side of this pipe will cause tremendous crushing pressure on the _outside_ of this pipe that's drawing out of the well.  I think the physics is right but I'm not sure how practical it is.  The pipe has to be absolutely air-tight, completely full of water and extremely strong.             Now I'm really sticking my neck out.  There's gotta be an old physics teacher out there....help! Bill On 1/27/2022 6:14 PM, Jay wrote: > Hi Bill > > Sorry about the egg > > Here is some actual info to confirm what I and others have said. > > You cannot vacuum water any more than 33’ at sea level. > > > > https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines > > Jay > >> On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy wrote: >> >>  >> >> OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face.  In this case though, you would >> not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved.  If you can fill >> the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's down slope of >> the water in the well on the other side of the ridge it would pull >> the water out of the well and up over that ridge /as long as/ the >> pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well and the pipe's >> intake. >> >>             The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping >> out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end of >> the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe >> /completely/, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, not >> intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge.  A >> valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and >> prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry.  The pipe would have to >> rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on the >> uphill section of pipe after it left the well.  There could >> absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe. >> >>             I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today. >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, Owner >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 >> CA Lic 874049 >> >> >> >> On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: >>> Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) >>> the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a >>> vacuum in the pipe.  These numbers depend upon the location >>> (elevation) and temperature of the water. >>> for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, >>> meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head.  (from my >>> high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet >>> the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet.  this is >>> from memory and mine is not so good. >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller >>> wrote: >>> >>> Colleagues: >>> >>> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping >>> water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head.  Just now >>> I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than >>> the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well.  The >>> 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond >>> at 800’ elevation.  The line goes over a 1500’ ridge. If there >>> were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the >>> pond? >>> >>> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> William >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From windydankoff at mac.com Fri Jan 28 10:19:15 2022 From: windydankoff at mac.com (Windy Dankoff) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:19:15 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, The drop from the wellhead at 1200 feet, down to the tank at 800 ft. will, if full of water, create a strong suction with the potential for siphoning water out of the well. But, as Darryl says, the limit of water lift by suction is roughly 30 feet. So, assuming the water level in the well is more than 30 ft. below ground, it will not siphon. Once the water is being pushed up by the well pump, the siphon effect will kick in and assist the flow, reducing the power draw of the pump. How much? Only to the equivalent of 30 ft. if the downward pipe is full of water. A pipe size that is adequate but relatively small, will help keep the pipe full of water, and allow it to siphon-assist (somewhat, and hard to predict). Regardless, the gravity assist it is limited to a 30 ft. advantage -- not much if the water level is way down in the 300 ft. well. The main advantage of the suction, as I see it, would be to allow you to use a minimally small pipe size going down the hill. Gravity will compensate for friction losses. It took me a couple decades to wrap my mind around this. I'm glad you asked :-) Windy Dankoff Co-Author, upcoming book – "The Solar Water Pumping Handbook" From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 11:45:59 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 11:45:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Autotransformer for Single Phase Motor Headache Message-ID: Hi all, I currently have an off-grid client that has a 120/240VAC 7.5 HP - 40A FLC single phase pool pump. Locked rotor current is around 110 A. I had initially (and naively) thought that two Sol Ark 12k units would be able to handle this load. Due to the lack of a transformer, the unit's just can't output the required inductive startup inrush. Now getting clarification from Sol Ark that max inductive HP output is 2.5 HP per unit. We had installed an amply sized SR35 soft starter, with no avail. The 20 kW generator can start the motor, but it is noticeably shaken with the intense load drop. I am toying with the idea of installing a VFD and upgrading the pool pump to a three phase motor. Would make for a much smoother ramp and self start. The client is a bit hesitant to upgrade and would like to continue using their clunky, non-self starting single phase motor. My other thought was to implement an autotransformer to add some copper to the equation and help the Sol Ark's get the job done. Has anyone had any experience with the Victron 100A autotransformer for both 120/240 input and output? Any suggestions or relative experience would be greatly appreciated! -Kindly, -Chris -- *Chris Sparadeo * *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional **® **# 042919-015652* *NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector **®** # 052920-015652 * *State of Vermont Journeyman Electrician # EJ-07619* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 09:28:37 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 07:28:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45115A20-E059-4043-8628-0647F7779C1B@gmail.com> Hi Bill Ok I’ll trybto explain 1 more time. Let’s take your example. Lake level at 100’, top of dam at 143’ output of the pipe at 0’ The pipe is sch 80 steel,totally filled with water, no air. There is a check valve at the lake side which will allow lake water in but not out, with the pipe intake below water level, and there is a valve at the other end. When you open the valve at the bottom, that 143’ of water will start to move out of the bottom of the pipe. It will be pulling up on the 43’ from the top of dam down to the water. 33’ down from the dam top on the lake side it will turn to vacuum leaving 10’ of water in the pipe. The other 33’ above it will siphon over the top of the dam and slowly make its way down the pipe. It cannot pull more than 33’ at sea level. Just the way it is. You can find good YouTube videos of water “boiling”at room temperature under a vacuum, and that’s what happens in that pipe. That boiling means that the water is no longer a liquid but a gas. Jay > On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:09 PM, frenergy wrote: > >  > This is good, I'm not yet willing to accept egg-defeat. In my previously described scenario, the atmospheric pressure does not play a role because I'm not evacuating the air-filled pipe with the suction side of a pump which would rely on atmospheric pressure to fill the pipe with water as the vacuum increases inside the pipe. > > In my scenario the pipe going over the ridge is filled with water from the discharge side of a pump, it could be filled from anywhere in the pipe but there must be an exhaust only air vent at the highest point of the pipe. Both ends of the pipe must not allow any air in and one end of the pipe must be lower than the other. Because we are not dealing with a mere 1 atmosphere of pressure (or vacuum in this case), the "pull" of the water on the lower side of this pipe will cause tremendous crushing pressure on the outside of this pipe that's drawing out of the well. I think the physics is right but I'm not sure how practical it is. The pipe has to be absolutely air-tight, completely full of water and extremely strong. > > Now I'm really sticking my neck out. There's gotta be an old physics teacher out there....help! > > Bill > >> On 1/27/2022 6:14 PM, Jay wrote: >> Hi Bill >> >> Sorry about the egg >> >> Here is some actual info to confirm what I and others have said. >> >> You cannot vacuum water any more than 33’ at sea level. >> >> >> >> https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines >> >> Jay >> >>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy wrote: >>> >>>  >>> OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face. In this case though, you would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved. If you can fill the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's down slope of the water in the well on the other side of the ridge it would pull the water out of the well and up over that ridge as long as the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well and the pipe's intake. >>> >>> The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end of the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe completely, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, not intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge. A valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry. The pipe would have to rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on the uphill section of pipe after it left the well. There could absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe. >>> >>> I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Feather River Solar Electric >>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>> 4291 Nelson St. >>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>> 530.284.7849 >>> CA Lic 874049 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: >>>> Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a vacuum in the pipe. These numbers depend upon the location (elevation) and temperature of the water. >>>> for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head. (from my high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet. this is from memory and mine is not so good. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller wrote: >>>>> Colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> William >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Miller Solar >>>>> >>>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>>> >>>>> 805-438-5600 >>>>> >>>>> www.millersolar.com >>>>> >>>>> CA Lic. 773985 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Fri Jan 28 13:31:12 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:31:12 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <45115A20-E059-4043-8628-0647F7779C1B@gmail.com> References: <45115A20-E059-4043-8628-0647F7779C1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F9CF632-13E0-49F9-93A7-7035F8416696@villagepowerdesign.com> Great Explanation Jay. One can just feel those molecules being pulled apart to gas! One could however recover the energy needed for pumping over the hump with a small turbine on the down side but probably not worth the expense and complexity. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 28, 2022, at 9:46 AM, Jay wrote: > >  > Hi Bill > > Ok I’ll trybto explain 1 more time. > Let’s take your example. > Lake level at 100’, top of dam at 143’ output of the pipe at 0’ > The pipe is sch 80 steel,totally filled with water, no air. There is a check valve at the lake side which will allow lake water in but not out, with the pipe intake below water level, and there is a valve at the other end. > > When you open the valve at the bottom, that 143’ of water will start to move out of the bottom of the pipe. It will be pulling up on the 43’ from the top of dam down to the water. 33’ down from the dam top on the lake side it will turn to vacuum leaving 10’ of water in the pipe. The other 33’ above it will siphon over the top of the dam and slowly make its way down the pipe. > > It cannot pull more than 33’ at sea level. Just the way it is. > > You can find good YouTube videos of water “boiling”at room temperature under a vacuum, and that’s what happens in that pipe. That boiling means that the water is no longer a liquid but a gas. > > Jay > > > >>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:09 PM, frenergy wrote: >>> >>  >> This is good, I'm not yet willing to accept egg-defeat. In my previously described scenario, the atmospheric pressure does not play a role because I'm not evacuating the air-filled pipe with the suction side of a pump which would rely on atmospheric pressure to fill the pipe with water as the vacuum increases inside the pipe. >> >> In my scenario the pipe going over the ridge is filled with water from the discharge side of a pump, it could be filled from anywhere in the pipe but there must be an exhaust only air vent at the highest point of the pipe. Both ends of the pipe must not allow any air in and one end of the pipe must be lower than the other. Because we are not dealing with a mere 1 atmosphere of pressure (or vacuum in this case), the "pull" of the water on the lower side of this pipe will cause tremendous crushing pressure on the outside of this pipe that's drawing out of the well. I think the physics is right but I'm not sure how practical it is. The pipe has to be absolutely air-tight, completely full of water and extremely strong. >> >> Now I'm really sticking my neck out. There's gotta be an old physics teacher out there....help! >> >> Bill >> >>> On 1/27/2022 6:14 PM, Jay wrote: >>> Hi Bill >>> >>> Sorry about the egg >>> >>> Here is some actual info to confirm what I and others have said. >>> >>> You cannot vacuum water any more than 33’ at sea level. >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines >>> >>> Jay >>> >>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face. In this case though, you would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved. If you can fill the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's down slope of the water in the well on the other side of the ridge it would pull the water out of the well and up over that ridge as long as the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well and the pipe's intake. >>>> >>>> The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end of the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe completely, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, not intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge. A valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry. The pipe would have to rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on the uphill section of pipe after it left the well. There could absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe. >>>> >>>> I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> Feather River Solar Electric >>>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>>> 4291 Nelson St. >>>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>>> 530.284.7849 >>>> CA Lic 874049 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: >>>>> Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a vacuum in the pipe. These numbers depend upon the location (elevation) and temperature of the water. >>>>> for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head. (from my high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet. this is from memory and mine is not so good. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller wrote: >>>>>> Colleagues: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> William >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Miller Solar >>>>>> >>>>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>>>> >>>>>> 805-438-5600 >>>>>> >>>>>> www.millersolar.com >>>>>> >>>>>> CA Lic. 773985 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jan 28 19:20:14 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:20:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Autotransformer for Single Phase Motor Headache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Chris I googled and a new 3phase motor is about $1000 and the vfd is about $500 maybe. Say $3000 for the upgrade? Seems like the easiest to do, easier on the existing inverters, it’s the least expensive long term option. I don’t know what the transformer would provide as a fix because the pump is already 240? I’m not even going to ask if he actually needs a 7.5hp motor. Jay > On Jan 28, 2022, at 9:46 AM, Chris Sparadeo wrote: > >  > Hi all, > > I currently have an off-grid client that has a 120/240VAC 7.5 HP - 40A FLC single phase pool pump. Locked rotor current is around 110 A. I had initially (and naively) thought that two Sol Ark 12k units would be able to handle this load. Due to the lack of a transformer, the unit's just can't output the required inductive startup inrush. Now getting clarification from Sol Ark that max inductive HP output is 2.5 HP per unit. We had installed an amply sized SR35 soft starter, with no avail. The 20 kW generator can start the motor, but it is noticeably shaken with the intense load drop. > > I am toying with the idea of installing a VFD and upgrading the pool pump to a three phase motor. Would make for a much smoother ramp and self start. The client is a bit hesitant to upgrade and would like to continue using their clunky, non-self starting single phase motor. > > My other thought was to implement an autotransformer to add some copper to the equation and help the Sol Ark's get the job done. Has anyone had any experience with the Victron 100A autotransformer for both 120/240 input and output? > > Any suggestions or relative experience would be greatly appreciated! > > -Kindly, > > -Chris > > -- > Chris Sparadeo > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ® # 042919-015652 > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector ® # 052920-015652 > State of Vermont Journeyman Electrician # EJ-07619 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 00:52:35 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 23:52:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Autotransformer for Single Phase Motor Headache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Chris, In the past, I was able to start a 5 hp pump motor using a VFD. , I can not remember the make, of the VFD but I think it was an ABB 7.5 or 10 HP connected to a single-phase motor. I started it on two Outback 3548s (or maybe 3024s). Now for the tricky part, I have done this several times over the years so I keep confusing the systems. you must power the VFD before starting the motor to charge the capacitors as the VFD will also have a loading surge.( one time on maybe 10 HP I did a homemade resistor) The VFD has a large capacitance and will have a surge. Most water pumps do not have a high zero-speed torque requirement, meaning low inertia, so you can use a slower ramp to speed. watch your speed as the VFD can Overspeed the motor increasing the load. The advantage of the VFD is it can run at a lower speed reducing the load on the inverter. I also think an Auto Transformer will balance the load between the inverters, but may not be necessary. Also be aware that starting surge is on the battery also, If your motor has aGH motor it can have a 4 to7 times the running loads on starting. NEC 430,7 I think. This can be well over 100 amps. The inverter will sag in voltage during startup but they may draw 400 or 500 amps from the battery. If my memory is correct the 10 HP VFD has the possibility of adding an extra capacitor which reduces AC starting draw. Sorry, this was so long, it was more than 20 years ago for me. On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 10:46 AM Chris Sparadeo wrote: > Hi all, > > I currently have an off-grid client that has a 120/240VAC 7.5 HP - 40A > FLC single phase pool pump. Locked rotor current is around 110 A. I had > initially (and naively) thought that two Sol Ark 12k units would be able to > handle this load. Due to the lack of a transformer, the unit's just can't > output the required inductive startup inrush. Now getting clarification > from Sol Ark that max inductive HP output is 2.5 HP per unit. We had > installed an amply sized SR35 soft starter, with no avail. The 20 kW > generator can start the motor, but it is noticeably shaken with the > intense load drop. > > I am toying with the idea of installing a VFD and upgrading the pool pump > to a three phase motor. Would make for a much smoother ramp and self start. > The client is a bit hesitant to upgrade and would like to continue using > their clunky, non-self starting single phase motor. > > My other thought was to implement an autotransformer to add some copper to > the equation and help the Sol Ark's get the job done. Has anyone had any > experience with the Victron 100A autotransformer for both 120/240 input and > output? > > Any suggestions or relative experience would be greatly appreciated! > > -Kindly, > > -Chris > > -- > > *Chris Sparadeo * > > *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional **® **# 042919-015652* > > *NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector **®** # 052920-015652 * > > *State of Vermont Journeyman Electrician # EJ-07619* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Sat Jan 29 12:27:18 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 12:27:18 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My $0.02… at the outlet of the pump; install a check valve, at the highest point install a tee, Top of the tee I would install a 16/18” pipe with a ball valve to use when filling the pipe & provide a dampener to prevent air hammering, on one side of the tee install an air scoop w/ auto vent (one can install this at the highest point w/o the air scoop) and the other side of the tee install a vacuum breaker to prevent the pipe collapsing when water is shut off. All of these things are readily available and come in the pipe sizes you might be using. > On Jan 27, 2022, at 10:13 PM, frenergy wrote: > > This is good, I'm not yet willing to accept egg-defeat. In my previously described scenario, the atmospheric pressure does not play a role because I'm not evacuating the air-filled pipe with the suction side of a pump which would rely on atmospheric pressure to fill the pipe with water as the vacuum increases inside the pipe. > > In my scenario the pipe going over the ridge is filled with water from the discharge side of a pump, it could be filled from anywhere in the pipe but there must be an exhaust only air vent at the highest point of the pipe. Both ends of the pipe must not allow any air in and one end of the pipe must be lower than the other. Because we are not dealing with a mere 1 atmosphere of pressure (or vacuum in this case), the "pull" of the water on the lower side of this pipe will cause tremendous crushing pressure on the outside of this pipe that's drawing out of the well. I think the physics is right but I'm not sure how practical it is. The pipe has to be absolutely air-tight, completely full of water and extremely strong. > > Now I'm really sticking my neck out. There's gotta be an old physics teacher out there....help! > Bill > On 1/27/2022 6:14 PM, Jay wrote: >> Hi Bill >> >> Sorry about the egg >> >> Here is some actual info to confirm what I and others have said. >> >> You cannot vacuum water any more than 33’ at sea level. >> >> >> >> https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines >> >> Jay >> >>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy wrote: >>> >>>  >>> OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face. In this case though, you would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved. If you can fill the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's down slope of the water in the well on the other side of the ridge it would pull the water out of the well and up over that ridge as long as the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well and the pipe's intake. >>> The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end of the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe completely, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, not intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge. A valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry. The pipe would have to rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on the uphill section of pipe after it left the well. There could absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe. >>> I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Feather River Solar Electric >>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>> 4291 Nelson St. >>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>> 530.284.7849 >>> CA Lic 874049 >>> >>> >>> On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: >>>> Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw a vacuum in the pipe. These numbers depend upon the location (elevation) and temperature of the water. >>>> for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea level, meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head. (from my high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 feet. this is from memory and mine is not so good. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller > wrote: >>>> Colleagues: >>>> >>>> >>>> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon to the pond? >>>> >>>> >>>> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance. >>>> >>>> >>>> William >>>> >>>> >>>> Miller Solar >>>> >>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>> >>>> 805-438-5600 >>>> >>>> www.millersolar.com >>>> CA Lic. 773985 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 17:22:38 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 14:22:38 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It sounds like a fun little test, if you get a roll of pex long enough to do it all in the trip, get a suction at the bottom and keep both sides in water after it gets flow. Its all in priming and next maintaining prime Jerry On Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 1:51 PM William Miller wrote: > Colleagues: > > > > All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to > tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a > system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even > than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation > and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ > ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon > to the pond? > > > > Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 17:47:03 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 14:47:03 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <5c78260fe98a01ea9594ab80a14f8bfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Now that l am doing the math, No, it can not be done because as you will always have a vacuum at the highest point you will boil the water even cold water and create air pockets that will stall the flow. Max lift of water depending on elevation if about 25 feet then the very low pressure will begin to boil the water. To do this you will need to keep from having much of a vacuum at the highest point of the line. Ever consider horizontal boring? On Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 1:51 PM William Miller wrote: > Colleagues: > > > > All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping water to > tanks higher in elevation than the well-head. Just now I am looking at a > system pumping to a pond that is lower than the well-head and lower even > than the bottom of the well. The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation > and pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a 1500’ > ridge. If there were nothing impeding the water flow, would it not siphon > to the pond? > > > > Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to advantage? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Sat Jan 29 20:39:06 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 20:39:06 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? Message-ID: <7DE7C823-100F-4CBC-962A-895DE9688EDA@gmail.com> You have 300’ of head on one side of the crest and 700’ on the other. That’s 129 psi on one side and 301 psi on the other. Turn either of those pressures into suction and water would boil at room temperatures. Aside from pipe strength, any siphon would be limited by that. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From frenergy at psln.com Sat Jan 29 23:41:56 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 20:41:56 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <45115A20-E059-4043-8628-0647F7779C1B@gmail.com> References: <45115A20-E059-4043-8628-0647F7779C1B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dang,             Slow learner but I got it now.  I did some research and its pretty fascinating. Thanks Bill On 1/28/2022 6:28 AM, Jay wrote: > Hi Bill > > Ok I’ll trybto explain 1 more time. > Let’s take your example. > Lake level at 100’, top of dam at 143’ output of the pipe at 0’ > The pipe is sch 80 steel,totally  filled with water, no air. There is > a check valve at the lake side which will allow lake water in but not > out, with the pipe intake below water level, and there is a valve at > the other end. > > When you open the valve at the bottom, that 143’ of water will start > to move out of the bottom of the pipe. It will be pulling up on the > 43’ from the top of dam down to the water. 33’ down from the dam top > on the lake side it will turn to vacuum leaving 10’ of water in the > pipe. The other 33’ above it will siphon over the top of the dam and > slowly make its way down the pipe. > > It cannot pull more than 33’ at sea level. Just the way it is. > > You can find good YouTube videos of water “boiling”at room temperature > under a vacuum, and that’s what happens in that pipe. That boiling > means that the water is no longer a liquid but a gas. > > Jay > > > >> On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:09 PM, frenergy wrote: >> >>  >> >> This is good, I'm not yet willing to accept egg-defeat.  In my >> previously described scenario, the atmospheric pressure does not play >> a role because I'm not evacuating the air-filled pipe with the >> suction side of a pump which /would/ rely on atmospheric pressure to >> fill the pipe with water as the vacuum increases inside the pipe. >> >>             In my scenario the pipe going over the ridge is filled >> with water from the discharge side of a pump, it could be filled from >> anywhere in the pipe but there must be an exhaust only air vent at >> the highest point of the pipe. Both ends of the pipe must not allow >> any air in and one end of the pipe must be lower than the other.  >> Because we are not dealing with a mere 1 atmosphere of pressure (or >> vacuum in this case), the "pull" of the water on the lower side of >> this pipe will cause tremendous crushing pressure on the _outside_ of >> this pipe that's drawing out of the well.  I think the physics is >> right but I'm not sure how practical it is.  The pipe has to be >> absolutely air-tight, completely full of water and extremely strong. >> >>             Now I'm really sticking my neck out.  There's gotta be an >> old physics teacher out there....help! >> >> Bill >> >> On 1/27/2022 6:14 PM, Jay wrote: >>> Hi Bill >>> >>> Sorry about the egg >>> >>> Here is some actual info to confirm what I and others have said. >>> >>> You cannot vacuum water any more than 33’ at sea level. >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.nwcg.gov/course/ffm/squirt-water/35-drafting-guidelines >>> >>> Jay >>> >>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 5:34 PM, frenergy wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>> OK, I'll gamble some egg on my face.  In this case though, you >>>> would not be "pulling a vacuum" with air (a gas) involved.  If you >>>> can fill the entire pipe with a liquid (water), the water that's >>>> down slope of the water in the well on the other side of the ridge >>>> it would pull the water out of the well and up over that ridge /as >>>> long as/ the pipe exit is below the dynamic water level in the well >>>> and the pipe's intake. >>>> >>>>             The caveat: the pipe would have to be filled by pumping >>>> out of the well (one time to set-up this siphon) and the exit end >>>> of the pipe would have to be closed to be able to fill the pipe >>>> /completely/, which would require an air vent (exhaust vent only, >>>> not intake) at the highest point of the pipe going over the ridge.  >>>> A valve would also be required at the exit end for flow control and >>>> prevent the siphon from drawing the well dry.  The pipe would have >>>> to rated to handle the crushing force of the vacuum being pulled on >>>> the uphill section of pipe after it left the well. There could >>>> absolutely not be any leaks in the pipe. >>>> >>>>             I hope my seat-of-the-pants physics is working today. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> Feather River Solar Electric >>>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>>> 4291 Nelson St. >>>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>>> 530.284.7849 >>>> CA Lic 874049 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 1/27/2022 2:28 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: >>>>> Yes, but if the rise is greater than about 30 feet (25 feet even) >>>>> the water head is greater than atmospheric and the water will draw >>>>> a vacuum in the pipe.  These numbers depend upon the location >>>>> (elevation) and temperature of the water. >>>>> for example at 15,000 feet the atmosphere is about 1/2 or sea >>>>> level, meaning the water column will break at 15 feet of head.  >>>>> (from my high school physics, this is the scale height) so that at >>>>> 7500 feet the water column is a maximum of 3/4 x 30 feet or 22 >>>>> feet.  this is from memory and mine is not so good. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:51 PM William Miller >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Colleagues: >>>>> >>>>> All of our water pumping customers to date have been pumping >>>>> water to tanks higher in elevation than the well-head.  Just >>>>> now I am looking at a system pumping to a pond that is lower >>>>> than the well-head and lower even than the bottom of the >>>>> well.  The 300’ well has the head at 1200’ elevation and >>>>> pumping to a pond at 800’ elevation. The line goes over a >>>>> 1500’ ridge.  If there were nothing impeding the water flow, >>>>> would it not siphon to the pond? >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone seen the basic physics available being used to >>>>> advantage? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> >>>>> William >>>>> >>>>> Miller Solar >>>>> >>>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>>> >>>>> 805-438-5600 >>>>> >>>>> www.millersolar.com >>>>> >>>>> CA Lic. 773985 >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> >> >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bzp at brick.net Sun Jan 30 15:35:08 2022 From: bzp at brick.net (bzp) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 14:35:08 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Well siphon? In-Reply-To: <7DE7C823-100F-4CBC-962A-895DE9688EDA@gmail.com> References: <7DE7C823-100F-4CBC-962A-895DE9688EDA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3b1d198b-db2e-e142-eea8-7c83b1282a0f@brick.net> Having worked whit industrial plumbing for 10 years. We would us a check valve with a damper to eliminate this problem. A damper being key. frank On 1/29/2022 7:39 PM, Hilton Dier wrote: > You have 300’ of head on one side of the crest and 700’ on the other. That’s 129 psi on one side and 301 psi on the other. Turn either of those pressures into suction and water would boil at room temperatures. Aside from pipe strength, any siphon would be limited by that. > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 09:42:51 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 08:42:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Autotransformer for Single Phase Motor Headache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi i have a single phase motor at a old install that i replaced about 8 years ago. Would it help if i made some starting load surge measurments? On Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 11:52 PM Darryl Thayer wrote: > Hi Chris, In the past, I was able to start a 5 hp pump motor using a VFD. > , I can not remember the make, of the VFD but I think it was an ABB 7.5 or > 10 HP connected to a single-phase motor. I started it on two Outback 3548s > (or maybe 3024s). Now for the tricky part, I have done this several times > over the years so I keep confusing the systems. you must power the VFD > before starting the motor to charge the capacitors as the VFD will also > have a loading surge.( one time on maybe 10 HP I did a homemade resistor) > The VFD has a large capacitance and will have a surge. Most water pumps do > not have a high zero-speed torque requirement, meaning low inertia, so you > can use a slower ramp to speed. watch your speed as the VFD can Overspeed > the motor increasing the load. The advantage of the VFD is it can run at a > lower speed reducing the load on the inverter. I also think an Auto > Transformer will balance the load between the inverters, but may not be > necessary. > Also be aware that starting surge is on the battery also, If your motor > has aGH motor it can have a 4 to7 times the running loads on starting. NEC > 430,7 I think. This can be well over 100 amps. The inverter will sag in > voltage during startup but they may draw 400 or 500 amps from the battery. > If my memory is correct the 10 HP VFD has the possibility of adding an > extra capacitor which reduces AC starting draw. > Sorry, this was so long, it was more than 20 years ago for me. > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 10:46 AM Chris Sparadeo > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I currently have an off-grid client that has a 120/240VAC 7.5 HP - 40A >> FLC single phase pool pump. Locked rotor current is around 110 A. I had >> initially (and naively) thought that two Sol Ark 12k units would be able to >> handle this load. Due to the lack of a transformer, the unit's just can't >> output the required inductive startup inrush. Now getting clarification >> from Sol Ark that max inductive HP output is 2.5 HP per unit. We had >> installed an amply sized SR35 soft starter, with no avail. The 20 kW >> generator can start the motor, but it is noticeably shaken with the >> intense load drop. >> >> I am toying with the idea of installing a VFD and upgrading the pool pump >> to a three phase motor. Would make for a much smoother ramp and self start. >> The client is a bit hesitant to upgrade and would like to continue using >> their clunky, non-self starting single phase motor. >> >> My other thought was to implement an autotransformer to add some copper >> to the equation and help the Sol Ark's get the job done. Has anyone had any >> experience with the Victron 100A autotransformer for both 120/240 input and >> output? >> >> Any suggestions or relative experience would be greatly appreciated! >> >> -Kindly, >> >> -Chris >> >> -- >> >> *Chris Sparadeo * >> >> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional **® **# 042919-015652* >> >> *NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector **®** # 052920-015652 * >> >> *State of Vermont Journeyman Electrician # EJ-07619* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon Jan 31 10:34:11 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 10:34:11 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] X-240 Buzz Message-ID: <9969956b9546b074b0c6a4c95cfa4de6@redwoodalliance.org> An Outback X-240 auto transformer on a VFX3648 buzzes loudly with a load of 400 W. The sound diminishes and finally stops with higher loads. The load was an electric, oil filled space heater. Has anyone seen this before? Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From dan at foxfire-energy.com Mon Jan 31 10:51:18 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:51:18 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] X-240 Buzz In-Reply-To: <9969956b9546b074b0c6a4c95cfa4de6@redwoodalliance.org> References: <9969956b9546b074b0c6a4c95cfa4de6@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <5F293650-5741-487F-BC11-3AFC0C1F4C4C@foxfire-energy.com> Not positive, but I’d suspect resonant frequencies.. might be simple as using flat washers under the mounting screws.. maybe try adding an inductive load to skew the power factor.. gobs of information online.. good luck. db Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 31, 2022, at 10:34 AM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote: > >  > An Outback X-240 auto transformer on a VFX3648 buzzes loudly with a load of 400 W. The sound diminishes and finally stops with higher loads. > > The load was an electric, oil filled space heater. > > Has anyone seen this before? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 11:49:50 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:49:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Autotransformer for Single Phase Motor Headache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for offering Darryl, but I have pretty good data on the 120/240VAC single phase motor I am up against. NEC 430 suggests LRC is 188 A, but I am measuring more like 112A during start up. I am thinking that using the VFD for slower ramp up AND as a phase converter from single phase to three phase will help lower inrush significantly. Jay- with the autotransformer option, I was hoping that the 240V input and 240V output capability of the Victron autotransformer would add some of the benefits of a transformer based inverter to the Sol Ark's transformer-less design. Less about balancing phases and more about adding some inductive kick when the load drops. Am I correct in thinking this is a possible use of this specific device? On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 9:43 AM Darryl Thayer wrote: > Hi i have a single phase motor at a old install that i replaced about > 8 years ago. Would it help if i made some starting load surge measurments? > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 11:52 PM Darryl Thayer > wrote: > >> Hi Chris, In the past, I was able to start a 5 hp pump motor using a VFD. >> , I can not remember the make, of the VFD but I think it was an ABB 7.5 or >> 10 HP connected to a single-phase motor. I started it on two Outback 3548s >> (or maybe 3024s). Now for the tricky part, I have done this several times >> over the years so I keep confusing the systems. you must power the VFD >> before starting the motor to charge the capacitors as the VFD will also >> have a loading surge.( one time on maybe 10 HP I did a homemade resistor) >> The VFD has a large capacitance and will have a surge. Most water pumps do >> not have a high zero-speed torque requirement, meaning low inertia, so you >> can use a slower ramp to speed. watch your speed as the VFD can Overspeed >> the motor increasing the load. The advantage of the VFD is it can run at a >> lower speed reducing the load on the inverter. I also think an Auto >> Transformer will balance the load between the inverters, but may not be >> necessary. >> Also be aware that starting surge is on the battery also, If your motor >> has aGH motor it can have a 4 to7 times the running loads on starting. NEC >> 430,7 I think. This can be well over 100 amps. The inverter will sag in >> voltage during startup but they may draw 400 or 500 amps from the battery. >> If my memory is correct the 10 HP VFD has the possibility of adding an >> extra capacitor which reduces AC starting draw. >> Sorry, this was so long, it was more than 20 years ago for me. >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 10:46 AM Chris Sparadeo >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I currently have an off-grid client that has a 120/240VAC 7.5 HP - 40A >>> FLC single phase pool pump. Locked rotor current is around 110 A. I had >>> initially (and naively) thought that two Sol Ark 12k units would be able to >>> handle this load. Due to the lack of a transformer, the unit's just can't >>> output the required inductive startup inrush. Now getting clarification >>> from Sol Ark that max inductive HP output is 2.5 HP per unit. We had >>> installed an amply sized SR35 soft starter, with no avail. The 20 kW >>> generator can start the motor, but it is noticeably shaken with the >>> intense load drop. >>> >>> I am toying with the idea of installing a VFD and upgrading the pool >>> pump to a three phase motor. Would make for a much smoother ramp and self >>> start. The client is a bit hesitant to upgrade and would like to continue >>> using their clunky, non-self starting single phase motor. >>> >>> My other thought was to implement an autotransformer to add some copper >>> to the equation and help the Sol Ark's get the job done. Has anyone had any >>> experience with the Victron 100A autotransformer for both 120/240 input and >>> output? >>> >>> Any suggestions or relative experience would be greatly appreciated! >>> >>> -Kindly, >>> >>> -Chris >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Chris Sparadeo * >>> >>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional **® **# 042919-015652* >>> >>> *NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector **®** # 052920-015652 * >>> >>> *State of Vermont Journeyman Electrician # EJ-07619* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 11:59:48 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 09:59:48 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Autotransformer for Single Phase Motor Headache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B8ACAE9-80AF-44FF-A6D1-9A134023723F@gmail.com> Hi Chris, I’m not enough of an EE to know that answer. But my guess is it isn’t going to be enough to make much of a difference, still a massive hit on the inverters Given the cost of the transformers with install vs the correct motor with VFD drive. I’d go with new motor/VFD and you know for sure it’s going to work. Jay > On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:50 AM, Chris Sparadeo wrote: > >  > Thanks for offering Darryl, but I have pretty good data on the 120/240VAC single phase motor I am up against. NEC 430 suggests LRC is 188 A, but I am measuring more like 112A during start up. I am thinking that using the VFD for slower ramp up AND as a phase converter from single phase to three phase will help lower inrush significantly. > > Jay- with the autotransformer option, I was hoping that the 240V input and 240V output capability of the Victron autotransformer would add some of the benefits of a transformer based inverter to the Sol Ark's transformer-less design. Less about balancing phases and more about adding some inductive kick when the load drops. Am I correct in thinking this is a possible use of this specific device? > >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 9:43 AM Darryl Thayer wrote: >> Hi i have a single phase motor at a old install that i replaced about 8 years ago. Would it help if i made some starting load surge measurments? >> >>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 11:52 PM Darryl Thayer wrote: >>> Hi Chris, In the past, I was able to start a 5 hp pump motor using a VFD. , I can not remember the make, of the VFD but I think it was an ABB 7.5 or 10 HP connected to a single-phase motor. I started it on two Outback 3548s (or maybe 3024s). Now for the tricky part, I have done this several times over the years so I keep confusing the systems. you must power the VFD before starting the motor to charge the capacitors as the VFD will also have a loading surge.( one time on maybe 10 HP I did a homemade resistor) The VFD has a large capacitance and will have a surge. Most water pumps do not have a high zero-speed torque requirement, meaning low inertia, so you can use a slower ramp to speed. watch your speed as the VFD can Overspeed the motor increasing the load. The advantage of the VFD is it can run at a lower speed reducing the load on the inverter. I also think an Auto Transformer will balance the load between the inverters, but may not be necessary. >>> Also be aware that starting surge is on the battery also, If your motor has aGH motor it can have a 4 to7 times the running loads on starting. NEC 430,7 I think. This can be well over 100 amps. The inverter will sag in voltage during startup but they may draw 400 or 500 amps from the battery. If my memory is correct the 10 HP VFD has the possibility of adding an extra capacitor which reduces AC starting draw. >>> Sorry, this was so long, it was more than 20 years ago for me. >>> >>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 10:46 AM Chris Sparadeo wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I currently have an off-grid client that has a 120/240VAC 7.5 HP - 40A FLC single phase pool pump. Locked rotor current is around 110 A. I had initially (and naively) thought that two Sol Ark 12k units would be able to handle this load. Due to the lack of a transformer, the unit's just can't output the required inductive startup inrush. Now getting clarification from Sol Ark that max inductive HP output is 2.5 HP per unit. We had installed an amply sized SR35 soft starter, with no avail. The 20 kW generator can start the motor, but it is noticeably shaken with the intense load drop. >>>> >>>> I am toying with the idea of installing a VFD and upgrading the pool pump to a three phase motor. Would make for a much smoother ramp and self start. The client is a bit hesitant to upgrade and would like to continue using their clunky, non-self starting single phase motor. >>>> >>>> My other thought was to implement an autotransformer to add some copper to the equation and help the Sol Ark's get the job done. Has anyone had any experience with the Victron 100A autotransformer for both 120/240 input and output? >>>> >>>> Any suggestions or relative experience would be greatly appreciated! >>>> >>>> -Kindly, >>>> >>>> -Chris >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chris Sparadeo >>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ® # 042919-015652 >>>> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector ® # 052920-015652 >>>> State of Vermont Journeyman Electrician # EJ-07619 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Jan 31 11:53:34 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 08:53:34 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems Message-ID: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 13:01:48 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 13:01:48 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi William, I have had good luck with the Tigo TS4-AF. Although it does require a 12VDC power supply for it's RSD transmitter, Outback, Sol Ark and Schnieder have a straight forward integration not requiring dependency of AC output from inverter. Best, Chris On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 12:57 PM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have > one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first > off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no > exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the > options and this is what I have found: > > > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra > wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system > which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the > proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled > systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a > big problem. > > > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter > system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank > in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex at sunforgellc.com Mon Jan 31 15:59:25 2022 From: alex at sunforgellc.com (Alex MeVay) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:59:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] X-240 Buzz In-Reply-To: <5F293650-5741-487F-BC11-3AFC0C1F4C4C@foxfire-energy.com> References: <9969956b9546b074b0c6a4c95cfa4de6@redwoodalliance.org> <5F293650-5741-487F-BC11-3AFC0C1F4C4C@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: One thing you might want to check is for any DC getting into the transformer. This can cause the transformer to saturate on one side of the sinewave, leading to high peak currents and a buzz. You can try checking for this by putting a DMM set to DC across the AC line. Should be well under a volt. Be sure to use a quality DMM, as cheaper ones might not be able to fully reject the AC, and some of it might show up as a DC reading. To make sure the meter isn't playing tricks on you, you can also try reversing the meter polarity and making sure the DC reading inverts too. Admittedly, I haven't encountered this with an inverter before, just at a friend's apartment, where the DC caused an immediate breaker trip when a large 120->240 transformer was connected. I can sort of imagine a situation where an inverter that's not quite working quite right has a little DC offset at light loads, but that this goes away at heavier loads. Let us know what you find, Alex MeVay Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 7:51 AM Foxfire Energy wrote: > > Not positive, but I’d suspect resonant frequencies.. might be simple as using flat washers under the mounting screws.. maybe try adding an inductive load to skew the power factor.. gobs of information online.. good luck. db > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 31, 2022, at 10:34 AM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote: > > > >  > > An Outback X-240 auto transformer on a VFX3648 buzzes loudly with a load of 400 W. The sound diminishes and finally stops with higher loads. > > > > The load was an electric, oil filled space heater. > > > > Has anyone seen this before? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Drake > > > > Drake Chamberlin > > Athens Electric LLC > > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From penobscotsolar at midmaine.com Mon Jan 31 16:06:41 2022 From: penobscotsolar at midmaine.com (penobscotsolar at midmaine.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:06:41 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9a966747401192e74dc98ed5b62e4d77.squirrel@mail.otelco.net> Hi William, We have a half dozen plus off grid systems using SolArk inverters and TIGO optimizers. They work well and the TIGO's, from my experience, have been really reliable. The necessary 12 volt signal can come directly from the relay in the SolArk inverter. Best, Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV Penobscot Solar Design > Friends: > > > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have > one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our > first > off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no > exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at > the > options and this is what I have found: > > > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra > wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system > which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the > proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled > systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a > big problem. > > > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter > system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank > in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > From william at millersolar.com Mon Jan 31 14:51:26 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 11:51:26 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Blue Planet 8kWh instllation Message-ID: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I am installing my first Blue Planet system today. I ordered an 8kWh unit so that means only 4 of the 8 battery positions are filled. I can’t find anything on the Blue Planet site or in the literature on how to implement only 4 battery modules. I have called every Blue Planet number I can and the advice I have been given is to load only the bottom positions. The problem with that advice is if I do that the internal positive lead will not reach the top battery and the battery bus bars look like they will be unsupported on the top and prone to bending and maybe shorting. This should be an easy manufacturer tech support answer, but I can’t seem to get though or get an answer that makes sense. Have any of you installed an 8kWh package and maybe have some guidance? Thank in advance. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Jan 31 16:49:19 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:49:19 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Blue Planet 8kWh instllation In-Reply-To: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> References: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That seems very odd that that pos cable(to the breaker/ bmu) does not reach. I've done partial 2.0's before and that lead could reach any pos battery terminal, regardless of the shelf it's on. Am I missing something? Maybe 48v HI leads are different. I heat shrinked the unconnected busbar length as a sanity check, but I doubt they would ever tilt to potentially short on the chassis. On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 4:18 PM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > I am installing my first Blue Planet system today. I ordered an 8kWh unit > so that means only 4 of the 8 battery positions are filled. I can’t find > anything on the Blue Planet site or in the literature on how to implement > only 4 battery modules. I have called every Blue Planet number I can and > the advice I have been given is to load only the bottom positions. The > problem with that advice is if I do that the internal positive lead will > not reach the top battery and the battery bus bars look like they will be > unsupported on the top and prone to bending and maybe shorting. > > > > This should be an easy manufacturer tech support answer, but I can’t seem > to get though or get an answer that makes sense. Have any of you installed > an 8kWh package and maybe have some guidance? > > > > Thank in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Jan 31 17:49:52 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:49:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Couple Enphase microinverters to a SolarEdge Backup Interface Unit; any design insight? Message-ID: <037a01d816f4$dc7731e0$956595a0$@solarcentex.com> We have a design challenge where we think the use of microinverters with a SolarEdge Energy Hub and inverter might provide advantages. I can not find any literature nor FAQs on AC-coupling Enphase to the backed up side of the SolarEdge Backup Interface Unit. Has anyone done it or can point me to design rules? Why you ask.I believe the SolarEdge new 11400 Energy Hub inverter and a LG Prime 16 will provide higher backed up power and thus a larger critical load panel. I can do this in a more compact space and at less cost than three Encharge 10 batteries which would provide roughly the same peak backup power. And you ask why not just use all SolarEdge.there is a separate metal building with ample capacity electrical already run to it. By interconnecting Enphase there, I can get more PV capacity beyond just the PV with SolarEdge on the primary building without a new trench/conduit for separate DC runs from the separate building. The loads in the metal building are on-demand only so in essence this building circuit becomes primarily as PV/Enphase solar circuit (with proper utility disconnects added, of course). It's this circuit that I'll want to AC-couple. Any insight on AC-coupling of Enphase to SolarEdge and ratio of Ac-coupled to overall SolarEdge capacity? Any recommendations if the IQ8 would offer any advantages over the IQ7 here? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 27572 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 18:16:03 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:16:03 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Blue Planet 8kWh instllation In-Reply-To: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> References: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: So do you have the new cabinet or the older 2.0, Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 1:18 PM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > I am installing my first Blue Planet system today. I ordered an 8kWh unit > so that means only 4 of the 8 battery positions are filled. I can’t find > anything on the Blue Planet site or in the literature on how to implement > only 4 battery modules. I have called every Blue Planet number I can and > the advice I have been given is to load only the bottom positions. The > problem with that advice is if I do that the internal positive lead will > not reach the top battery and the battery bus bars look like they will be > unsupported on the top and prone to bending and maybe shorting. > > > > This should be an easy manufacturer tech support answer, but I can’t seem > to get though or get an answer that makes sense. Have any of you installed > an 8kWh package and maybe have some guidance? > > > > Thank in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 18:21:23 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 15:21:23 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Blue Planet 8kWh instllation In-Reply-To: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> References: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William In the case where l am only installing 4 or 6 batteries, l start at the top half and leave the bottom empty, l also cut the positive and negative bars and it look great after. I did ask years ago for dead fronts but it never came to be. Don't forget to address each one and get all the sn# as it all goes together. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 1:18 PM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > I am installing my first Blue Planet system today. I ordered an 8kWh unit > so that means only 4 of the 8 battery positions are filled. I can’t find > anything on the Blue Planet site or in the literature on how to implement > only 4 battery modules. I have called every Blue Planet number I can and > the advice I have been given is to load only the bottom positions. The > problem with that advice is if I do that the internal positive lead will > not reach the top battery and the battery bus bars look like they will be > unsupported on the top and prone to bending and maybe shorting. > > > > This should be an easy manufacturer tech support answer, but I can’t seem > to get though or get an answer that makes sense. Have any of you installed > an 8kWh package and maybe have some guidance? > > > > Thank in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solsierra1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 19:25:16 2022 From: solsierra1 at gmail.com (Vic Guillot) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:25:16 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Blue Planet 8kWh instllation In-Reply-To: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> References: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William, We have had good luck, the guy you want to talk to is Jody Powell. He has been a tech there for a couple of years or more. Vic Guillot Sol Sierra, Inc. Vic Guillot Sol Sierra, Inc. 209.795.3554 office 209.768.3560 mobile/text On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:18 PM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > I am installing my first Blue Planet system today. I ordered an 8kWh unit > so that means only 4 of the 8 battery positions are filled. I can’t find > anything on the Blue Planet site or in the literature on how to implement > only 4 battery modules. I have called every Blue Planet number I can and > the advice I have been given is to load only the bottom positions. The > problem with that advice is if I do that the internal positive lead will > not reach the top battery and the battery bus bars look like they will be > unsupported on the top and prone to bending and maybe shorting. > > > > This should be an easy manufacturer tech support answer, but I can’t seem > to get though or get an answer that makes sense. Have any of you installed > an 8kWh package and maybe have some guidance? > > > > Thank in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solsierra1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 19:59:05 2022 From: solsierra1 at gmail.com (Vic Guillot) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 16:59:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, We did one this year, offgrid, Outback Radian with Simpliphi batteries. Used the outback rapid shutdown option which is probably similar to the fire raptor system. Cheers!, Vic Guillot Vic Guillot Sol Sierra, Inc. 209.795.3554 office 209.768.3560 mobile/text On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have > one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first > off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no > exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the > options and this is what I have found: > > > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra > wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system > which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the > proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled > systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a > big problem. > > > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter > system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank > in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 20:04:48 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:04:48 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Blue Planet 8kWh instllation In-Reply-To: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> References: <783a6edb28980329dd6c301115765627@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi William. Of the 30+ Blue Planet jobs we have done - The 2.0 and HI versions the positive cable has always only just reached the top corner. When we populate only half of the cabinet we don't cut the buss bar as this will cause more work trying to get a longer replacement buss bar from Blue Planet at a later date if the customer decides to add more battery modules. We carefully tape over the exposed buss bar sections we aren't using. We have attached the positive lead to the floating end of the buss bar. It isn't flimsy metal and with the door of the cabinet closed nearly all the time it is pretty protected - the most risk of shorting to the cabinet or bending the buss bar accidentally is during installation- at which time we are very careful. That said you could certainly switch the positive cable and add a longer one if you didn't want to connect to the floating end of the buss bar.... We have had numerous customers fully populate the enclosure at a later date and were happy we didn't cut the buss bars....made for simple quick expansion. I can second the fact that Jody Power is a great contact and resource at Blue Planet. Feel free to direct message me if you want his contact info... Best of luck, Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 (o) On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 1:18 PM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > I am installing my first Blue Planet system today. I ordered an 8kWh unit > so that means only 4 of the 8 battery positions are filled. I can’t find > anything on the Blue Planet site or in the literature on how to implement > only 4 battery modules. I have called every Blue Planet number I can and > the advice I have been given is to load only the bottom positions. The > problem with that advice is if I do that the internal positive lead will > not reach the top battery and the battery bus bars look like they will be > unsupported on the top and prone to bending and maybe shorting. > > > > This should be an easy manufacturer tech support answer, but I can’t seem > to get though or get an answer that makes sense. Have any of you installed > an 8kWh package and maybe have some guidance? > > > > Thank in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 20:21:18 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 17:21:18 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi William. We have had good luck with the AP Smart Rapid shutdown system. It is similar to the Tigo in that it sends a "heartbeat" signal to the units up behind each solar panel over the power wires. I haven't tried the Tigos yet but would be open to it if the opportunity presented itself. The thing we like about the AP Smart shutdown units is they can be attached to the solar panels before the panels are brought up to the roof. Makes for a quick and tidy installation. We found the Fire Raptor units with their incredible amount of extra wiring and cables to be a real pain in the ass to install. It typically takes longer to install the Fire Raptor units and manage the wiring than it does to install the solar panels themselves. The fire raptors are more expensive and require a seperate control wire to be run upto the roof. We haven't had any failures on either the fire raptor or the AP Smart units with probably a dozen installs of each style installed to date. Brad Bassett at AEE has some great easy to use wiring diagrams for both systems with Outback or Sol Ark. All the above systems have some requirement for either 12V or 24V power to power the signal generator. We typically use some version of din rail mounted 48-24v or12V power supply and power it from the batteries so that if the inverter were to fail or the grid the solar can still stay on.. At this stage we have settled on any of the rapid shutdown systems except Fire Raptor. - if you do use the Fire Raptor - calculate a bunch of extra time into the install for wire management. Hope that gives you some food for thought. Cheers, Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Jan 31 20:45:06 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:45:06 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I also recently used the Tigo with Sol-Ark to provide the 12V signal with good success. The Tigo transmitter can also (barely) fit inside the Sol-Ark wiring compartment, so you do not need the whole Tigo enclosure for it. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 8:21 PM Kirpal wrote: > Hi William. > We have had good luck with the AP Smart Rapid shutdown system. It is > similar to the Tigo in that it sends a "heartbeat" signal to the units up > behind each solar panel over the power wires. I haven't tried the Tigos yet > but would be open to it if the opportunity presented itself. The thing we > like about the AP Smart shutdown units is they can be attached to the solar > panels before the panels are brought up to the roof. Makes for a quick and > tidy installation. We found the Fire Raptor units with their incredible > amount of extra wiring and cables to be a real pain in the ass to install. > It typically takes longer to install the Fire Raptor units and manage the > wiring than it does to install the solar panels themselves. The fire > raptors are more expensive and require a seperate control wire to be run > upto the roof. We haven't had any failures on either the fire raptor or > the AP Smart units with probably a dozen installs of each style installed > to date. Brad Bassett at AEE has some great easy to use wiring diagrams > for both systems with Outback or Sol Ark. All the above systems have some > requirement for either 12V or 24V power to power the signal generator. We > typically use some version of din rail mounted 48-24v or12V power supply > and power it from the batteries so that if the inverter were to fail or the > grid the solar can still stay on.. At this stage we have settled on any of > the rapid shutdown systems except Fire Raptor. - if you do use the Fire > Raptor - calculate a bunch of extra time into the install for wire > management. > Hope that gives you some food for thought. > Cheers, > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Jan 31 20:50:58 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:50:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] burnt wire Message-ID: Hi All, I was troubleshooting a Schneider system today (not my install, so I don't know the history) and came across a wire where the insulation actually burnt off. See the attached photo. I have never seen anything like it. Does anyone know how this could happen? It was a Conext MPPT 80 600 charge controller going to a 100A breaker, with what appears to be #2 CU wire. This is in a heated shed, and there is no evidence of water leakage. The charge controller was still working just fine. And it was only that last 6" or so of the wire, the rest of it appeared to be fine. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20220131_161735713.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 310388 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Mon Jan 31 21:00:23 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:00:23 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] burnt wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks like the wire was not completely seated in the back of the terminal before the set screw was tightened, the set screw grabbed a strand or two and felt as though it was tight, etc. or the screw wasn’t tightened enough. The resistive connection led to a lot of heat causing the insulation to burn. I prefer using ferrules on those big terminals when using smaller than maximum size wire. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jan 31, 2022, at 7:51 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote: > >  > Hi All, > > I was troubleshooting a Schneider system today (not my install, so I don't know the history) and came across a wire where the insulation actually burnt off. See the attached photo. I have never seen anything like it. Does anyone know how this could happen? It was a Conext MPPT 80 600 charge controller going to a 100A breaker, with what appears to be #2 CU wire. This is in a heated shed, and there is no evidence of water leakage. The charge controller was still working just fine. And it was only that last 6" or so of the wire, the rest of it appeared to be fine. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20220131_161735713.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 310388 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 21:03:04 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:03:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] burnt wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, this is a loose connection coupled with no way to detect and respond to the Arc fault. It doesn't have to be loose on that conductor on a common bus, any bad connection can build up heat and melt conductors. Scary! On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 6:51 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I was troubleshooting a Schneider system today (not my install, so I don't > know the history) and came across a wire where the insulation actually > burnt off. See the attached photo. I have never seen anything like it. Does > anyone know how this could happen? It was a Conext MPPT 80 600 charge > controller going to a 100A breaker, with what appears to be #2 CU wire. > This is in a heated shed, and there is no evidence of water leakage. The > charge controller was still working just fine. And it was only that last 6" > or so of the wire, the rest of it appeared to be fine. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon Jan 31 22:20:46 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 19:20:46 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have > one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first > off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no > exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the > options and this is what I have found: > > > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra > wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system > which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the > proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled > systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a > big problem. > > > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter > system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank > in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Jan 31 23:20:51 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:20:51 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ble Planet 8kWh solved, and Namaka Message-ID: <1d62163575f0f4ead0c73a0bd4fd68dd@mail.gmail.com> Friends: Thanks for all of the input about the Blue Planet 8kWh configuration. Here is the story: The red lead is supposed to be longer. It is supposed to have enough slack looped behind the panel so you can pull enough out to connect to the second from bottom shelf. There was a redesign and the extra length got accidentally deleted. Blue Planet apologized for the problem and pledged to correct it. I cut the wire ties holding the existing red lead and rerouted it to reach. It is not elegant but it works. We fabricate cables so I will make a longer 2/0 cable to make it look right. I would have done this right away but it seemed like I was missing something. Jody of Blue Planed was very helpful. He exhibits the three most valuable attributes needed: He is knowledgeable, professional and he answers his phone. Here are some other things I learned in the process: 1. The manual is incomplete in several regards. For example it never instructs to install the orange connectors although at some point you must. 2. There actually is a wall mounting kit. It is called the “stacking kit” but it does allow wall connection of a one-high cabinet. I fastened two chunks of strut securely to the wall with Simpson SDS lags, one high and one low, and bolted the cabinet to the strut. I used two existing holes in the cabinet up high and drilled two more down low. 3. There are ground straps that need to be removed from the door and the top for those panels to come off. It would be very easy for these straps to contact the positive terminals in the front or top. Keep them secure or tape them off. I have another question: The Namaka chassis is a $900 add-on. When I asked if it was necessary, I was told it was needed to pass SOC data to the Radian. I had the presence of mind to ask what the Radian does with the SOC value and I was told, “nothing.” Apparently that is a future thing. Also the Namaka is supposedly needed to provide user data on SOC. Apparently this tells the user when they are about to run out of power via the Namaka web site. I looked around and I cannot find the Namaka web site. Am I missing something? Do I need this unit?. One of the characteristics of Lithium batteries is the flat voltage curve during discharge. I have been aware of this fact but I am not sure I thought through the implications. This is going to make it hard to call battery voltage triggered actions, like starting a generator or sending a notification email. So if the Radian cannot process Namaka SOC data and the battery voltage caves suddenly at the bitter end, how do we start the generator or send low battery notifications? Will the Namaka web interface fill in these gaps? I am sorry if I am being dense here, but these seem like valid concerns. I am prepared to be taught that I am totally missing something. Thanks to all of you for being the awesome people you are. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Jan 31 23:22:14 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:22:14 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> Jerry: Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Jan 31 23:45:57 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:45:57 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <765a713c615221e0646bf488790d9ded@mail.gmail.com> Kirpal: Thanks for that suggestion. The AP Smart system modules are certainly more compact and this is a plus for me. Do you have to have a sensor transformer and logic unit on each string? Could more than one string be routed through one sensor coil? This installation will have 10 strings so that could be a lot of hardware. Some here have asked if RSS is required on a non-dwelling unit. My reading of the code indicates indeed it is. The only buildings exempt are buildings used solely for solar equipment that are fed by ground mount arrays. So theoretically our ground mount systems that feed equipment in a barn or garage should also have RSS. Right? This does not make sense to me for protecting fire-fighters. Seems like an over-reach. Bill Brooks, could you comment on this? Anyone? William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Kirpal [mailto:solarworks at gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 5:21 PM *To:* RE-wrenches; William Miller *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems Hi William. We have had good luck with the AP Smart Rapid shutdown system. It is similar to the Tigo in that it sends a "heartbeat" signal to the units up behind each solar panel over the power wires. I haven't tried the Tigos yet but would be open to it if the opportunity presented itself. The thing we like about the AP Smart shutdown units is they can be attached to the solar panels before the panels are brought up to the roof. Makes for a quick and tidy installation. We found the Fire Raptor units with their incredible amount of extra wiring and cables to be a real pain in the ass to install. It typically takes longer to install the Fire Raptor units and manage the wiring than it does to install the solar panels themselves. The fire raptors are more expensive and require a seperate control wire to be run upto the roof. We haven't had any failures on either the fire raptor or the AP Smart units with probably a dozen installs of each style installed to date. Brad Bassett at AEE has some great easy to use wiring diagrams for both systems with Outback or Sol Ark. All the above systems have some requirement for either 12V or 24V power to power the signal generator. We typically use some version of din rail mounted 48-24v or12V power supply and power it from the batteries so that if the inverter were to fail or the grid the solar can still stay on.. At this stage we have settled on any of the rapid shutdown systems except Fire Raptor. - if you do use the Fire Raptor - calculate a bunch of extra time into the install for wire management. Hope that gives you some food for thought. Cheers, Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Tue Feb 1 08:04:47 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 06:04:47 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ble Planet 8kWh solved, and Namaka In-Reply-To: <1d62163575f0f4ead0c73a0bd4fd68dd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1d62163575f0f4ead0c73a0bd4fd68dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi William, Think of Namaka as the collector of the true SOC and other BMS data on the batteries. It also acts as a data translator for BMS data to other communication protocols. For other inverter brands it can speak directly to the equipment via Canbus or RS485. I think it's valuable to be able to view past data and see what the BMS is seeing. Provided you can get the Namaka connected to the internet, the data is hosted on stellar.newsunroad.com. As an installer you can get a portal view of all your Namaka systems regardless of the inverter brand. The Flexnet DC seems to do quite well calibrating to the Radian provided that the system is getting full regularly (up to 55V). I like to start my generator at around 15% and also trigger the generator between 49V-50V. Having a 2-min voltage start covers you in case your SOC gets uncalibrated. This seems to be between 5-15%. Blue Planet has Outback integration guides and I am happy to send one off list that will help you get started. It sure doesn't seem like retirement worked out! Good Luck On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 12:06 AM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > Thanks for all of the input about the Blue Planet 8kWh configuration. > Here is the story: The red lead is supposed to be longer. It is supposed > to have enough slack looped behind the panel so you can pull enough out to > connect to the second from bottom shelf. There was a redesign and the > extra length got accidentally deleted. Blue Planet apologized for the > problem and pledged to correct it. > > > > I cut the wire ties holding the existing red lead and rerouted it to > reach. It is not elegant but it works. We fabricate cables so I will > make a longer 2/0 cable to make it look right. I would have done this > right away but it seemed like I was missing something. > > > > Jody of Blue Planed was very helpful. He exhibits the three most valuable > attributes needed: He is knowledgeable, professional and he answers his > phone. > > > > Here are some other things I learned in the process: > > > > 1. The manual is incomplete in several regards. For example it never > instructs to install the orange connectors although at some point you must. > > 2. There actually is a wall mounting kit. It is called the “stacking > kit” but it does allow wall connection of a one-high cabinet. I fastened > two chunks of strut securely to the wall with Simpson SDS lags, one high > and one low, and bolted the cabinet to the strut. I used two existing holes > in the cabinet up high and drilled two more down low. > > 3. There are ground straps that need to be removed from the door and > the top for those panels to come off. It would be very easy for these > straps to contact the positive terminals in the front or top. Keep them > secure or tape them off. > > > > I have another question: The Namaka chassis is a $900 add-on. When I > asked if it was necessary, I was told it was needed to pass SOC data to the > Radian. I had the presence of mind to ask what the Radian does with the > SOC value and I was told, “nothing.” Apparently that is a future thing. > Also the Namaka is supposedly needed to provide user data on SOC. > Apparently this tells the user when they are about to run out of power via > the Namaka web site. I looked around and I cannot find the Namaka web > site. Am I missing something? Do I need this unit?. > > > > One of the characteristics of Lithium batteries is the flat voltage curve > during discharge. I have been aware of this fact but I am not sure I > thought through the implications. This is going to make it hard to call > battery voltage triggered actions, like starting a generator or sending a > notification email. So if the Radian cannot process Namaka SOC data and > the battery voltage caves suddenly at the bitter end, how do we start the > generator or send low battery notifications? Will the Namaka web interface > fill in these gaps? I am sorry if I am being dense here, but these seem > like valid concerns. I am prepared to be taught that I am totally missing > something. > > > > Thanks to all of you for being the awesome people you are. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Tue Feb 1 09:09:50 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 09:09:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] burnt wire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would agree loose or not retightened connection. We use ferrels and Cobra X Flex # 6 awg wire, great to work with and those fine strands within the ferrels compress much better then Cu. > On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:00 PM, Maverick Brown > wrote: > > Looks like the wire was not completely seated in the back of the terminal before the set screw was tightened, the set screw grabbed a strand or two and felt as though it was tight, etc. or the screw wasn’t tightened enough. The resistive connection led to a lot of heat causing the insulation to burn. I prefer using ferrules on those big terminals when using smaller than maximum size wire. > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > • Solar Commander Remote Power > • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > >> On Jan 31, 2022, at 7:51 PM, Dave Tedeyan > wrote: >> >>  >> Hi All, >> >> I was troubleshooting a Schneider system today (not my install, so I don't know the history) and came across a wire where the insulation actually burnt off. See the attached photo. I have never seen anything like it. Does anyone know how this could happen? It was a Conext MPPT 80 600 charge controller going to a 100A breaker, with what appears to be #2 CU wire. This is in a heated shed, and there is no evidence of water leakage. The charge controller was still working just fine. And it was only that last 6" or so of the wire, the rest of it appeared to be fine. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we all will perish as fools." MLK > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Feb 1 09:06:31 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 07:06:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <21502BB4-0D02-4D8E-AF19-BB3EF8736AD2@gmail.com> 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. It’s in the first line after 690.12 Jay > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote: > >  > Jerry: > > Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM > To: William Miller; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > William > Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. > Jerry > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Feb 1 12:06:54 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 09:06:54 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <21502BB4-0D02-4D8E-AF19-BB3EF8736AD2@gmail.com> References: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> <21502BB4-0D02-4D8E-AF19-BB3EF8736AD2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <625c5135422d4310be0382b6e3d8025f@mail.gmail.com> Jay: Here is the text from 2017: *690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV* *system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid* *shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency* *responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D).* *Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of* *which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be* *required to comply with 690.12.* The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: *In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads,* *that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own* *articles.* I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. It’s in the first line after 690.12 Jay On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote:  Jerry: Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Feb 1 13:11:29 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 11:11:29 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <625c5135422d4310be0382b6e3d8025f@mail.gmail.com> References: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> <21502BB4-0D02-4D8E-AF19-BB3EF8736AD2@gmail.com> <625c5135422d4310be0382b6e3d8025f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18063b7a-6bf3-9ddc-e997-1dc64710b5b0@solarray.com>  Ground mounts do NOT require RSS.  We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): /" The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems"./ Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect.  I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: > > Jay: > > Here is the text from 2017: > > /690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV/ > > /system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid/ > > /shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency/ > > /responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D)./ > > // > > /Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of/ > > /which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be/ > > /required to comply with 690.12./ > > The wording is interesting.  The requirement is directed at “PV system > circuits…”, not PV arrays.  The passage does not specify where the PV > feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the > circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” > > The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that > serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment.  For circuits that > enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, > etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown > systems (RSS). > > Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that > gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 > volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level > shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount.  Although the 2020 > code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting > ground mount systems. > > The moral of the story is this:  For ground-mounts:  either install > RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, > BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. > > I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists.  Jay, > or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. > > By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by > Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: > > /In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and > loads,/ > > /that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own/ > > /articles./ > > I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify > this, I am taking Bill at his word. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > *From:*Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM > *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount > solar that it does not need RS. > > It’s in the first line after 690.12 > > Jay > > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller > wrote: > >  > > Jerry: > > Yes it is required.  Rapid Shutdown:  NEC 690.12.  All buildings > except dedicated solar buildings.  Read it and weep. > > William > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > *From:*Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM > *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > William > > Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, > historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire > raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and > might require a button and power supply depending on inverter > application. > > Jerry > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller > wrote: > > Friends: > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on > roof-tops.  We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large > barn roof.  This will be our first off-grid with a > module-level rapid shutdown requirement.  I see no exemptions > from RSS for off-grid systems in the code.  I have looked at > the options and this is what I have found: > > 1.Fire Raptor > > 2.Tigo TS4-F > > 3.AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > No one of these approaches seems ideal.  The fire raptor > requires extra wiring for control leads.  The Tigo requires a > wireless control system which worries me about reliability.  > With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries > may be awkward.  Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one > cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a > big problem. > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a > battery-based inverter system?  I looked in the archives and > found no threads that apply.  Thank in advance. > > William Miller > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Tue Feb 1 13:39:54 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 13:39:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <625c5135422d4310be0382b6e3d8025f@mail.gmail.com> References: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> <21502BB4-0D02-4D8E-AF19-BB3EF8736AD2@gmail.com> <625c5135422d4310be0382b6e3d8025f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94f7e706-559e-832e-d852-99c8bae73acb@entech-engineering.com> Hi, If I put a disconnect switch within one foot of the ground mounted array, I am pretty sure this would comply with RSS requirements?  Chris On 2/1/2022 12:06 PM, William Miller wrote: > > Jay: > > Here is the text from 2017: > > /690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV/ > > /system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid/ > > /shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency/ > > /responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D)./ > > // > > /Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of/ > > /which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be/ > > /required to comply with 690.12./ > > The wording is interesting.  The requirement is directed at “PV system > circuits…”, not PV arrays.  The passage does not specify where the PV > feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the > circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” > > The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that > serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment.  For circuits that > enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, > etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown > systems (RSS). > > Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that > gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 > volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level > shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount.  Although the 2020 > code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting > ground mount systems. > > The moral of the story is this:  For ground-mounts:  either install > RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, > BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. > > I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists.  Jay, > or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. > > By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by > Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: > > /In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and > loads,/ > > /that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own/ > > /articles./ > > I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify > this, I am taking Bill at his word. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > *From:*Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM > *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount > solar that it does not need RS. > > It’s in the first line after 690.12 > > Jay > > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller > wrote: > >  > > Jerry: > > Yes it is required.  Rapid Shutdown:  NEC 690.12.  All buildings > except dedicated solar buildings.  Read it and weep. > > William > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > *From:*Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM > *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > William > > Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, > historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire > raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and > might require a button and power supply depending on inverter > application. > > Jerry > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller > wrote: > > Friends: > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on > roof-tops.  We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large > barn roof.  This will be our first off-grid with a > module-level rapid shutdown requirement.  I see no exemptions > from RSS for off-grid systems in the code.  I have looked at > the options and this is what I have found: > > 1.Fire Raptor > > 2.Tigo TS4-F > > 3.AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > No one of these approaches seems ideal.  The fire raptor > requires extra wiring for control leads.  The Tigo requires a > wireless control system which worries me about reliability.  > With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries > may be awkward.  Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one > cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a > big problem. > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a > battery-based inverter system?  I looked in the archives and > found no threads that apply.  Thank in advance. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Tue Feb 1 13:43:32 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 13:43:32 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <18063b7a-6bf3-9ddc-e997-1dc64710b5b0@solarray.com> References: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> <21502BB4-0D02-4D8E-AF19-BB3EF8736AD2@gmail.com> <625c5135422d4310be0382b6e3d8025f@mail.gmail.com> <18063b7a-6bf3-9ddc-e997-1dc64710b5b0@solarray.com> Message-ID: <998af5ae-7e65-95e5-42a3-f4543943f43d@entech-engineering.com> That was my understanding too, but the language Jay has from 2017 (and I confirmed in 2020) reads different.  I was positive ground mounted arrays did not need to comply with RSS. The bogus argument made by the businesses influencing the CMP, and by a few mercenaries supposedly representing firefighter concerns was explicitly for roof mounted systems going through its history.  Chris On 2/1/2022 1:11 PM, Ray wrote: > >  Ground mounts do NOT require RSS.  We hashed this out years ago on > the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. > > See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): /" The PV system disconnect in these > diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems"./ > > Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV > system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The > installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect.  I usually > put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never > had an inspector question that. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: >> >> Jay: >> >> Here is the text from 2017: >> >> /690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV/ >> >> /system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid/ >> >> /shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency/ >> >> /responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D)./ >> >> // >> >> /Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of/ >> >> /which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be/ >> >> /required to comply with 690.12./ >> >> The wording is interesting.  The requirement is directed at “PV >> system circuits…”, not PV arrays.  The passage does not specify where >> the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the >> circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” >> >> The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that >> serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment.  For circuits that >> enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, >> etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown >> systems (RSS). >> >> Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language >> that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than >> 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module >> level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount.  Although the >> 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as >> exempting ground mount systems. >> >> The moral of the story is this:  For ground-mounts:  either install >> RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, >> BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. >> >> I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists.  >> Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. >> >> By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post >> by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: >> >> /In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and >> loads,/ >> >> /that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own/ >> >> /articles./ >> >> I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify >> this, I am taking Bill at his word. >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> *From:*Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM >> *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >> >> 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount >> solar that it does not need RS. >> >> It’s in the first line after 690.12 >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> Jerry: >> >> Yes it is required.  Rapid Shutdown:  NEC 690.12.  All buildings >> except dedicated solar buildings.  Read it and weep. >> >> William >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> *From:*Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] >> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM >> *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >> >> William >> >> Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, >> historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire >> raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and >> might require a button and power supply depending on inverter >> application. >> >> Jerry >> >> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller >> wrote: >> >> Friends: >> >> It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on >> roof-tops.  We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large >> barn roof.  This will be our first off-grid with a >> module-level rapid shutdown requirement.  I see no exemptions >> from RSS for off-grid systems in the code.  I have looked at >> the options and this is what I have found: >> >> 1.Fire Raptor >> >> 2.Tigo TS4-F >> >> 3.AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers >> >> No one of these approaches seems ideal.  The fire raptor >> requires extra wiring for control leads.  The Tigo requires a >> wireless control system which worries me about reliability.  >> With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries >> may be awkward.  Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one >> cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, >> a big problem. >> >> Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a >> battery-based inverter system?  I looked in the archives and >> found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. >> >> William Miller >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Feb 1 13:24:30 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 10:24:30 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <18063b7a-6bf3-9ddc-e997-1dc64710b5b0@solarray.com> References: <10cfaab9624f2a59e85053995aa8eb2b@mail.gmail.com> <21502BB4-0D02-4D8E-AF19-BB3EF8736AD2@gmail.com> <625c5135422d4310be0382b6e3d8025f@mail.gmail.com> <18063b7a-6bf3-9ddc-e997-1dc64710b5b0@solarray.com> Message-ID: Ray: Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): *" The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems".* Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: Jay: Here is the text from 2017: *690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV* *system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid* *shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency* *responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D).* *Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of* *which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be* *required to comply with 690.12.* The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: *In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads,* *that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own* *articles.* I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. It’s in the first line after 690.12 Jay On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote:  Jerry: Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Tue Feb 1 14:20:51 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 12:20:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <998af5ae-7e65-95e5-42a3-f4543943f43d@entech-engineering.com> References: <998af5ae-7e65-95e5-42a3-f4543943f43d@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required. Brian > On Feb 1, 2022, at 11:43 AM, Christopher Warfel wrote: > >  > That was my understanding too, but the language Jay has from 2017 (and I confirmed in 2020) reads different. I was positive ground mounted arrays did not need to comply with RSS. The bogus argument made by the businesses influencing the CMP, and by a few mercenaries supposedly representing firefighter concerns was explicitly for roof mounted systems going through its history. Chris > >> On 2/1/2022 1:11 PM, Ray wrote: >> Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. >> >> See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): " The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems". >> >> Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> 303 505-8760 >> On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: >>> Jay: >>> >>> Here is the text from 2017: >>> >>> 690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV >>> system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid >>> shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency >>> responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D). >>> >>> Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of >>> which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be >>> required to comply with 690.12. >>> >>> The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” >>> >>> The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). >>> >>> Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. >>> >>> The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. >>> >>> I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. >>> >>> By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: >>> >>> In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads, >>> that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own >>> articles. >>> >>> I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> 805-438-5600 >>> www.millersolar.com >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM >>> To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >>> >>> 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. >>> It’s in the first line after 690.12 >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote: >>> >>>  >>> Jerry: >>> >>> Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. >>> >>> William >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> 805-438-5600 >>> www.millersolar.com >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM >>> To: William Miller; RE-wrenches >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >>> >>> William >>> Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. >>> Jerry >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: >>> Friends: >>> >>> It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: >>> >>> 1. Fire Raptor >>> >>> 2. Tigo TS4-F >>> >>> 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers >>> >>> >>> No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. >>> >>> Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Tue Feb 1 14:23:05 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 12:23:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a ground-mount. Brian > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller wrote: > >  > Ray: > > Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. > > See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): " The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems". > > Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: > Jay: > > Here is the text from 2017: > > 690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV > system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid > shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency > responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D). > > Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of > which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be > required to comply with 690.12. > > The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” > > The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). > > Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. > > The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. > > I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. > > By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: > > In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads, > that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own > articles. > > I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM > To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. > It’s in the first line after 690.12 > > Jay > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote: > >  > Jerry: > > Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM > To: William Miller; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > William > Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. > Jerry > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. > > William Miller > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Tue Feb 1 17:14:42 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 14:14:42 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes things much easier. What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. Brad On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic wrote: > Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a > ground-mount. > > Brian > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller > wrote: > >  > > Ray: > > > > Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that > discussion in the archives but could not find it. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Ray > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > > > Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the > Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. > > See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): *" The PV system disconnect in these > diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems".* > > Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV > system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The > installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it > on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an > inspector question that. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > 303 505-8760 > > On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: > > Jay: > > > > Here is the text from 2017: > > > > *690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV* > > *system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid* > > *shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency* > > *responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D).* > > > > *Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of* > > *which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be* > > *required to comply with 690.12.* > > > > The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system > circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV > feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits > are, specifically “in or on a building.” > > > > The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves > only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building > with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem > there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). > > > > Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that > gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts > within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, > regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes > some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. > > > > The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or > put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a > separate building housing only that equipment. > > > > I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or > anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. > > > > By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by > Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: > > > > *In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and > loads,* > > *that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own* > > *articles.* > > > > I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I > am taking Bill at his word. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM > *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > > > 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar > that it does not need RS. > > It’s in the first line after 690.12 > > > > Jay > > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller > wrote: > >  > > Jerry: > > > > Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except > dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM > *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > > > William > > Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its > not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, > yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply > depending on inverter application. > > Jerry > > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller > wrote: > > Friends: > > > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have > one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first > off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no > exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the > options and this is what I have found: > > > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra > wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system > which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the > proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled > systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a > big problem. > > > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter > system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank > in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Tue Feb 1 18:07:30 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 16:07:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For a ground mount PV system with a DC combiner, the PV source circuits are not in or on a building so RS doesn’t apply to them. And the definition of a charge controller in Art. 100 is in its relationship to batteries/storage, not really the charging source - fundamentally it’s there to protect the storage/batteries, so it’s best considered part of that system, not the PV system (and over the last several cycles nearly all references to charge control/lers have been moved out of 690). Brian > On Feb 1, 2022, at 3:15 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote: > >  > "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." > > That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes things much easier. > > What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. > > Brad > >> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic wrote: >> Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a ground-mount. >> >> Brian >> >>>> On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller wrote: >>>> >>>  >>> Ray: >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM >>> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >>> >>> >>> >>> Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. >>> >>> See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): " The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems". >>> >>> Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Ray Walters >>> Remote Solar >>> 303 505-8760 >>> On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: >>> >>> Jay: >>> >>> >>> >>> Here is the text from 2017: >>> >>> >>> >>> 690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV >>> >>> system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid >>> >>> shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency >>> >>> responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D). >>> >>> >>> >>> Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of >>> >>> which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be >>> >>> required to comply with 690.12. >>> >>> >>> >>> The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” >>> >>> >>> >>> The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). >>> >>> >>> >>> Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. >>> >>> >>> >>> The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. >>> >>> >>> >>> I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. >>> >>> >>> >>> By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: >>> >>> >>> >>> In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads, >>> >>> that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own >>> >>> articles. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM >>> To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >>> >>> >>> >>> 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. >>> >>> It’s in the first line after 690.12 >>> >>> >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote: >>> >>>  >>> >>> Jerry: >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] >>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM >>> To: William Miller; RE-wrenches >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >>> >>> >>> >>> William >>> >>> Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: >>> >>> Friends: >>> >>> >>> >>> It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Fire Raptor >>> >>> 2. Tigo TS4-F >>> >>> 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers >>> >>> >>> >>> No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Tue Feb 1 20:31:16 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 01:31:16 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What about the PV circuits that leave the combiner and are ran on or in a building to the CC Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Feb 1, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:  For a ground mount PV system with a DC combiner, the PV source circuits are not in or on a building so RS doesn’t apply to them. And the definition of a charge controller in Art. 100 is in its relationship to batteries/storage, not really the charging source - fundamentally it’s there to protect the storage/batteries, so it’s best considered part of that system, not the PV system (and over the last several cycles nearly all references to charge control/lers have been moved out of 690). Brian On Feb 1, 2022, at 3:15 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:  "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes things much easier. What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. Brad On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic > wrote: Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a ground-mount. Brian On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller > wrote:  Ray: Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): " The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems". Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: Jay: Here is the text from 2017: 690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D). Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be required to comply with 690.12. The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads, that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own articles. I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. It’s in the first line after 690.12 Jay On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller > wrote:  Jerry: Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM To: William Miller; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller > wrote: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Tue Feb 1 20:49:38 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 01:49:38 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We’ve used multi-pole rated disconnects at the array. Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jeremy Rodriguez Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 8:31:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems What about the PV circuits that leave the combiner and are ran on or in a building to the CC Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Feb 1, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:  For a ground mount PV system with a DC combiner, the PV source circuits are not in or on a building so RS doesn’t apply to them. And the definition of a charge controller in Art. 100 is in its relationship to batteries/storage, not really the charging source - fundamentally it’s there to protect the storage/batteries, so it’s best considered part of that system, not the PV system (and over the last several cycles nearly all references to charge control/lers have been moved out of 690). Brian On Feb 1, 2022, at 3:15 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:  "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes things much easier. What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. Brad On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic > wrote: Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a ground-mount. Brian On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller > wrote:  Ray: Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): " The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems". Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: Jay: Here is the text from 2017: 690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D). Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be required to comply with 690.12. The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads, that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own articles. I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. It’s in the first line after 690.12 Jay On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller > wrote:  Jerry: Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM To: William Miller; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller > wrote: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Tue Feb 1 21:04:18 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 02:04:18 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a rated disco at the ground mount? Labeled as the rapid shutdown switch? That’s too simple! In Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Feb 1, 2022, at 6:49 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter wrote:  We’ve used multi-pole rated disconnects at the array. Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jeremy Rodriguez Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 8:31:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems What about the PV circuits that leave the combiner and are ran on or in a building to the CC Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Feb 1, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:  For a ground mount PV system with a DC combiner, the PV source circuits are not in or on a building so RS doesn’t apply to them. And the definition of a charge controller in Art. 100 is in its relationship to batteries/storage, not really the charging source - fundamentally it’s there to protect the storage/batteries, so it’s best considered part of that system, not the PV system (and over the last several cycles nearly all references to charge control/lers have been moved out of 690). Brian On Feb 1, 2022, at 3:15 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:  "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes things much easier. What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. Brad On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic > wrote: Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a ground-mount. Brian On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller > wrote:  Ray: Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): " The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems". Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: Jay: Here is the text from 2017: 690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D). Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be required to comply with 690.12. The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads, that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own articles. I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. It’s in the first line after 690.12 Jay On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller > wrote:  Jerry: Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM To: William Miller; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller > wrote: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Feb 1 22:24:42 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 20:24:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: PV System Disconnect, not RSS Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 2/1/22 7:04 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote: > Just a rated disco at the ground mount?   Labeled as the rapid > shutdown switch? > That’s  too simple! > > In > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > >> On Feb 1, 2022, at 6:49 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter >> wrote: >> >>  >> We’ve used multi-pole rated disconnects at the array. >> Best regards, >> Lloyd >> >> Lloyd Hoffstatter >> Sunstruck Consulting >> >> Get Outlook for iOS >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* RE-wrenches on >> behalf of Jeremy Rodriguez >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 8:31:16 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >> What about the PV circuits that leave the combiner and are ran on or >> in a building to the CC >> >> >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> Solar Installation / Design Expert >> All Solar, Inc. >> 1453 M St >> Penrose Colorado 81240 >> >> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. >> >>> On Feb 1, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote: >>> >>>  For a ground mount PV system with a DC combiner, the PV source >>> circuits are not in or on a building so RS doesn’t apply to them. >>> And the definition of a charge controller in Art. 100 is in its >>> relationship to batteries/storage, not really the charging source - >>> fundamentally it’s there to protect the storage/batteries, so it’s >>> best considered part of that system, not the PV system (and over the >>> last several cycles nearly all references to charge control/lers >>> have been moved out of 690). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian >>> >>>> On Feb 1, 2022, at 3:15 PM, Bradley Bassett >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the >>>> power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the >>>> rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." >>>> >>>> That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. >>>> A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that >>>> William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code >>>> is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. >>>> It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge >>>> control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should >>>> be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV >>>> device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes >>>> things much easier. >>>> >>>> What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for >>>> breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless >>>> solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that >>>> most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, >>>> which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use >>>> of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really >>>> call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V >>>> breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. >>>> And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for >>>> polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it >>>> yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like >>>> Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired >>>> in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one >>>> pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, >>>> or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco >>>> does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. >>>> I'm curious what others are doing. >>>> >>>> Brad >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a >>>> ground-mount. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> Ray: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for that input.  I was hoping I was wrong.  I looked >>>>> for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. >>>>> >>>>> William >>>>> >>>>> Miller Solar >>>>> >>>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>>> >>>>> 805-438-5600 >>>>> >>>>> www.millersolar.com >>>>> >>>>> CA Lic. 773985 >>>>> >>>>> *From:*RE-wrenches >>>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf >>>>> Of *Ray >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM >>>>> *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems >>>>> >>>>>  Ground mounts do NOT require RSS.  We hashed this out years >>>>> ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. >>>>> >>>>> See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): /" The PV system disconnect in >>>>> these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems"./ >>>>> >>>>> Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point >>>>> from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or >>>>> inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put >>>>> that disconnect.  I usually put it on the wall before it goes >>>>> into the building, and I have never had an inspector question >>>>> that. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Ray Walters >>>>> Remote Solar >>>>> 303 505-8760 >>>>> >>>>> On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Jay: >>>>> >>>>> Here is the text from 2017: >>>>> >>>>> /690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV/ >>>>> >>>>> /system circuits installed on or in buildings shall >>>>> include a rapid/ >>>>> >>>>> /shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency/ >>>>> >>>>> /responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D)./ >>>>> >>>>> // >>>>> >>>>> /Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter >>>>> buildings, of/ >>>>> >>>>> /which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, >>>>> shall not be/ >>>>> >>>>> /required to comply with 690.12./ >>>>> >>>>> The wording is interesting.  The requirement is directed >>>>> at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays.  The passage does >>>>> not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is >>>>> located, it just addresses where the circuits are, >>>>> specifically “in or on a building.” >>>>> >>>>> The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a >>>>> building that serves only one purpose, to house PV >>>>> equipment.  For circuits that enter building with other >>>>> uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would >>>>> seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems >>>>> (RSS). >>>>> >>>>> Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any >>>>> language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce >>>>> voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside >>>>> the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, >>>>> regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 >>>>> code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as >>>>> exempting ground mount systems. >>>>> >>>>> The moral of the story is this:  For ground-mounts:  >>>>> either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, >>>>> charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building >>>>> housing only that equipment. >>>>> >>>>> I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it >>>>> exists.  Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am >>>>> reading this incorrectly. >>>>> >>>>> By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote >>>>> from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: >>>>> >>>>> /In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all >>>>> batteries and loads,/ >>>>> >>>>> /that were previously part of PV systems, and place them >>>>> in their own/ >>>>> >>>>> /articles./ >>>>> >>>>> I have not read through the battery sections of the code >>>>> to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. >>>>> >>>>> William Miller >>>>> >>>>> Miller Solar >>>>> >>>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>>> >>>>> 805-438-5600 >>>>> >>>>> www.millersolar.com >>>>> >>>>> CA Lic. 773985 >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM >>>>> *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid >>>>> systems >>>>> >>>>> 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for >>>>> ground mount solar that it does not need RS. >>>>> >>>>> It’s in the first line after 690.12 >>>>> >>>>> Jay >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> >>>>> Jerry: >>>>> >>>>> Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12.  All >>>>> buildings except dedicated solar buildings.  Read it >>>>> and weep. >>>>> >>>>> William >>>>> >>>>> Miller Solar >>>>> >>>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>>>> >>>>> 805-438-5600 >>>>> >>>>> www.millersolar.com >>>>> >>>>> CA Lic. 773985 >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM >>>>> *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for >>>>> Off-grid systems >>>>> >>>>> William >>>>> >>>>> Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable >>>>> building, historically its not required. Now that >>>>> being said we use fire raptor with the best results, >>>>> yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a >>>>> button and power supply depending on inverter application. >>>>> >>>>> Jerry >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Friends: >>>>> >>>>> It is quite rare for us to install off-grid >>>>> systems on roof-tops.  We have one coming up with >>>>> about 20kW on a large barn roof.  This will be our >>>>> first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown >>>>> requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for >>>>> off-grid systems in the code.  I have looked at >>>>> the options and this is what I have found: >>>>> >>>>> 1.Fire Raptor >>>>> >>>>> 2.Tigo TS4-F >>>>> >>>>> 3.AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers >>>>> >>>>> No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire >>>>> raptor requires extra wiring for control leads.  >>>>> The Tigo requires a wireless control system which >>>>> worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling >>>>> systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be >>>>> awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one >>>>> cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is >>>>> operational, a big problem. >>>>> >>>>> Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a >>>>> battery-based inverter system?  I looked in the >>>>> archives and found no threads that apply.  Thank >>>>> in advance. >>>>> >>>>> William Miller >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>>>> work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>>> work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>>> try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>> try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Feb 2 01:06:06 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 22:06:06 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1c929dac70cc4f4a6a051a1cd3d88788@mail.gmail.com> Friends: One of my favorite things about this list-service: The minute I think I have posted something really stupid, someone agrees with me. What a self-esteem builder! Thanks, Bradley! Here are two conclusions I think I am arriving at with this discussion: 1. The language in the 2017 NEC is pretty vague on the issue. Hopefully this improves over time. 2. The point is really open to interpretation. If you can convince your building department that RSS is not required on a ground mount array, I think it is entirely safe to omit the RSS. This is a reasonable case to make if one goes on the assumption the intent is to protect firefighters on roofs. Thanks for the lively discussion. The points we are all thoughtfully presented. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Bradley Bassett [mailto:bbassett2 at gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 2:15 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* William Miller *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes things much easier. What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. Brad On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic wrote: Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a ground-mount. Brian On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller wrote:  Ray: Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): *" The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems".* Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. Thanks, Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: Jay: Here is the text from 2017: *690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV* *system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid* *shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency* *responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D).* *Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of* *which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be* *required to comply with 690.12.* The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: *In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads,* *that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own* *articles.* I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. It’s in the first line after 690.12 Jay On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote:  Jerry: Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems William Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. Jerry On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: Friends: It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: 1. Fire Raptor 2. Tigo TS4-F 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. William Miller _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Wed Feb 2 08:50:14 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 06:50:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <1c929dac70cc4f4a6a051a1cd3d88788@mail.gmail.com> References: <1c929dac70cc4f4a6a051a1cd3d88788@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Of course you can put rapid shutdown in whatever circuits you want. You only have to put them on those PV DC circuits that are on or in building. If the conclusion is that “some number less than 100% of the DC circuits are on a building thus 100% of them need RS” it won’t be a code violation, but that doesn’t make it right/necessary. Brian > On Feb 2, 2022, at 12:27 AM, William Miller wrote: > >  > Friends: > > One of my favorite things about this list-service: The minute I think I have posted something really stupid, someone agrees with me. What a self-esteem builder! Thanks, Bradley! > > Here are two conclusions I think I am arriving at with this discussion: > > 1. The language in the 2017 NEC is pretty vague on the issue. Hopefully this improves over time. > > 2. The point is really open to interpretation. If you can convince your building department that RSS is not required on a ground mount array, I think it is entirely safe to omit the RSS. This is a reasonable case to make if one goes on the assumption the intent is to protect firefighters on roofs. > > Thanks for the lively discussion. The points we are all thoughtfully presented. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: Bradley Bassett [mailto:bbassett2 at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 2:15 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: William Miller > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." > > That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes things much easier. > > What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. > > Brad > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian Mehalic wrote: > Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a ground-mount. > > Brian > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William Miller wrote: > >  > Ray: > > Thanks for that input. I was hoping I was wrong. I looked for that discussion in the archives but could not find it. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > Ground mounts do NOT require RSS. We hashed this out years ago on the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. > > See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): " The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems". > > Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect. I usually put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never had an inspector question that. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: > Jay: > > Here is the text from 2017: > > 690.12 Rapid Shutdown of PV Systems on Buildings. PV > system circuits installed on or in buildings shall include a rapid > shutdown function to reduce shock hazard for emergency > responders in accordance with 690.12(A) through (D). > > Exception: Ground mounted PV system circuits that enter buildings, of > which the sole purpose is to house PV system equipment, shall not be > required to comply with 690.12. > > The wording is interesting. The requirement is directed at “PV system circuits…”, not PV arrays. The passage does not specify where the PV feeding those circuits is located, it just addresses where the circuits are, specifically “in or on a building.” > > The only circuits that are exempt are those feeding a building that serves only one purpose, to house PV equipment. For circuits that enter building with other uses—homes, garages, barns, workshops, etc.-- it would seem there is a requirement to have rapid shutdown systems (RSS). > > Reading through the rest of the section, I don’t see any language that gets us out of the requirement to reduce voltages to less than 80 volts within 30 seconds inside the array boundary, as in module level shutdown, regardless of roof-top or ground-mount. Although the 2020 code includes some differing language, I don’t see it as exempting ground mount systems. > > The moral of the story is this: For ground-mounts: either install RSS or put your equipment (inverters, charge controllers, batteries, BOS) in a separate building housing only that equipment. > > I don’t necessarily like the requirement, but I think it exists. Jay, or anyone, please, please tell me I am reading this incorrectly. > > By the way, regarding battery circuits, here is a quote from a post by Bill Brooks on March 16, 2016: > > In the 2017 NEC, we were very careful to carve out all batteries and loads, > that were previously part of PV systems, and place them in their own > articles. > > I have not read through the battery sections of the code to verify this, I am taking Bill at his word. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: Jay [mailto:jay.peltz at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 6:07 AM > To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > 2017 code has a specific exception/clarification for ground mount solar that it does not need RS. > It’s in the first line after 690.12 > > Jay > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13 AM, William Miller wrote: > >  > Jerry: > > Yes it is required. Rapid Shutdown: NEC 690.12. All buildings except dedicated solar buildings. Read it and weep. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 7:21 PM > To: William Miller; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > > William > Are you sure RSD is required on a non habitable building, historically its not required. Now that being said we use fire raptor with the best results, yes it takes an extra conduite and might require a button and power supply depending on inverter application. > Jerry > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022, 9:57 AM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > It is quite rare for us to install off-grid systems on roof-tops. We have one coming up with about 20kW on a large barn roof. This will be our first off-grid with a module-level rapid shutdown requirement. I see no exemptions from RSS for off-grid systems in the code. I have looked at the options and this is what I have found: > > 1. Fire Raptor > > 2. Tigo TS4-F > > 3. AC coupling with micro-inverters or optimizers > > > No one of these approaches seems ideal. The fire raptor requires extra wiring for control leads. The Tigo requires a wireless control system which worries me about reliability. With AC Coupling systems floating the proposed AGM batteries may be awkward. Furthermore, with AC coupled systems one cannot charge batteries unless the mini-grid is operational, a big problem. > > Have any of you implemented module-level RSS on a battery-based inverter system? I looked in the archives and found no threads that apply. Thank in advance. > > William Miller > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Feb 2 10:43:53 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 10:43:53 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Skybox manual charge using OpticsRE Message-ID: Does anyone know in opticsRE how to initiate a manual grid charge using a OB Skybox? Thanks. Can't find the option, but I remember doing it before. Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Wed Feb 2 10:55:47 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 07:55:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems In-Reply-To: <35885827-325b-810d-69b0-beaa2620b57d@villagelab.net> References: <35885827-325b-810d-69b0-beaa2620b57d@villagelab.net> Message-ID: <472fa343-d06e-8bf4-90a8-f399dbc71525@villagepowerdesign.com> Hey Brad and All, We've been switching (pun intended:)) from SQ D HU361s to IMO DC Isolators with good results.  They make 2,3,4,5,6,8 pole units and that lends itself well to actually switching both poles at reasonable cost. As for the RSS discussion. I'm hearing some others imply that if "any" DC circuits from a ground mount are on or in a building that the whole array needs RSS?  I don't believe that's what the code intends at all and is certainly uncalled for from any safety standpoint. We've had many inspectors okay a simple PV Disconnect on the DC side of a ground mount - either on the house or even at the array - as the RSS for DC lines if they do then enter a building - so simply putting an RSS sticker on the DC PV disconnect before it enters the building - end of story.  That's our common practice on ground mounts. Hope that helps! Best, Jeff > Bradley Bassett > February 1, 2022 at 2:14 PM > "A switch, outside of the building, opening the PV circuit to the > power electronics, and functioning as the pv system disco and the > rapid shutdown initiation device, should be all that is required." > > That is what I have found most inspectors will accept, but not all. A > strict reading of the code does come to the same conclusion that > William comes to, and some inspectors will require that. The code is > not very specific on where the PV system disconnect should go. It > seems to be mostly accepted to be on the PV side of the charge > control, but when I read the code strictly it seems to me it should be > on the battery side of the charge control since it is only a PV > device. Fortunately the PV side is more accepted because that makes > things much easier. > > What I'm still having trouble with is the requirement for > breaking both pos and neg legs in the PV system disconnect unless > solidly grounded which most systems are not (690.13(E)). I see that > most installers do not break both poles, but only the positive leg, > which is of course easier and less expensive. I've quoted the use of > dual pole breakers when possible, but OutBack does not really call for > that always, and if you ask about their 2 pole 300V breakers they (and > Carling) don't say they can be used that way. And if you do, you > have to run the wires in opposite directions for polarity. I've asked > for clarification but have not received it yet. Then there are the > high voltage charge controls like Schneider, where often one uses the > SqD HU361, which can be wired in various ways to meet the 600V > requirement. It can be wired one pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up > to 30A if two poles in series, or one pos and one neg pole in the > circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does break both poles, one of the few > devices that make it clear. I'm curious what others are doing. > > Brad > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Brian Mehalic > February 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM > Sorry, forgot to state my previous comment was in regards to a > ground-mount. > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > William Miller > February 1, 2022 at 10:24 AM > > Ray: > > Thanks for that input.  I was hoping I was wrong.  I looked for that > discussion in the archives but could not find it. > > William > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > *From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Ray > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 10:11 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for Off-grid systems > >  Ground mounts do NOT require RSS.  We hashed this out years ago on > the Wrenches list, when NEC 2017 came out. > > See Figure 690.1(B) Note (2): /" The PV system disconnect in these > diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems"./ > > Thus, the PV disconnect is defined as the transition point from the PV > system to all other systems, like battery or inverter systems. The > installer/ designer decides where to put that disconnect.  I usually > put it on the wall before it goes into the building, and I have never > had an inspector question that. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > > On 2/1/22 10:06 AM, William Miller wrote: > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Feb 2 13:11:40 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 12:11:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Skybox manual charge using OpticsRE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38622824-EC18-487C-B9AE-5A6D87C08736@mavericksolar.com> On the customers OpticsRE Dashboard, click the little blue gear icon on the upper right of the screen. Bulk Charging setting is on the System Tools pop up, at least that’s how it works on a FX and Radian sites I have. Charger setting of the inverter has to enabled, etc. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Feb 2, 2022, at 9:44 AM, Kirk Herander wrote: > >  > Does anyone know in opticsRE how to initiate a manual grid charge using a OB Skybox? Thanks. Can't find the option, but I remember doing it before. Thanks. > > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lars at cal-solar.com Wed Feb 2 14:59:37 2022 From: lars at cal-solar.com (Lars Ortegren) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:59:37 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flickering lights on off grid AC coupled radian system Message-ID: Wrenches, I'm hoping to solve an issue we've had with a couple of our off grid AC coupled systems. We have had multiple reports of different LED and traditional ballasted fluorescent systems "flickering" during the day when the AC systems are producing power. We havent had issues with other off grid AC coupling using Sunny Islands, or even old VFX inverters, but this does seem to be an issue directly related to the Radians.I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this, and if you found any hacks to "clean up" the power? -- Lars Örtegren General Manager Co-Founder Worker-Owner He/Him 530 274 3671 | ext 307 <530+274+3671> lars at cal-solar.com www.Cal-Solar.coop 149 E. Main St, Grass Valley, CA 95945 NABCEP: #PVI-091110-89 CSLB #779624 -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Feb 2 15:08:37 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 15:08:37 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flickering lights on off grid AC coupled radian system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Lars, It sounds like an issue with frequency shifting. I’m guessing that this is mostly happening when the battery is full. The Radian is shifting its frequency (to probably around 63-64 Hz) to turn of the AC coupled PV inverter. Some lights and electronics don’t like this and can either flicker, or turn off. This is one of the issues with AC coupling that makes it a less than ideal fit for off-grid application. One option would be to look into replacing the lights with something that has a larger tolerante for change in frequency. Another option might be to lower the inverter’s grid frequency tolerance so that it trips and turns off before the flights end up freaking out. Hope this helps. -Chris On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 2:59 PM Lars Ortegren wrote: > Wrenches, > I'm hoping to solve an issue we've had with a couple of our off grid AC > coupled systems. We have had multiple reports of different LED and > traditional ballasted fluorescent systems "flickering" during the day when > the AC systems are producing power. We havent had issues with other off > grid AC coupling using Sunny Islands, or even old VFX inverters, but this > does seem to be an issue directly related to the Radians.I'm wondering if > any of you have had experience with this, and if you found any hacks to > "clean up" the power? > > -- > Lars Örtegren > General Manager > Co-Founder > Worker-Owner > He/Him > > 530 274 3671 | ext 307 <530+274+3671> > lars at cal-solar.com > www.Cal-Solar.coop > 149 E. Main St, Grass Valley, CA 95945 > > NABCEP: #PVI-091110-89 > CSLB #779624 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at evcl.com Wed Feb 2 16:41:04 2022 From: david at evcl.com (David Coale) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 13:41:04 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarApp+ app from NREL - has anyone used this for permitting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From david at evcl.com Wed Feb 2 17:13:47 2022 From: david at evcl.com (David Coale) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 14:13:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarApp+ app from NREL - has anyone used this for permitting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D420E19-D7C6-486E-A19D-404276BCC3E6@evcl.com> Hi Wrenchers, Has anyone used the SolarApp+ application for permitting solar? It is just getting started and sounds very promising and could greatly reduce the soft costs of installations. More info can be found here: https://solarapp.nrel.gov/ David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Feb 3 17:04:41 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2022 15:04:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MECA solar tracker information/help Message-ID: HI All, Does anyone have any experience with MECA large trackers? They are out of biz here in the US, and I’ve got a client in northern california that needs some help with theirs. Or if you know know how to replace their electronics with simple timer based that would work too. Contact me off list, thanks jay From eric at vecoop.ca Fri Feb 4 09:48:53 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 07:48:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radian transfer time Message-ID: I have an off grid system with three GS8048A inverters. Every time it switches from generator charging to inverting - at the end of absorption - the lights flicker and a propane boiler in the house goes into fault. I'm using Advanced AGS on the Mate3S. The loads don't exceed about 6 kW right now. Does anyone know if there's a way to reduce the transfer time? The transition to charging is smooth. I don't understand why it's so clunky transitioning back to inverting. Eric Smiley Project Manager, North Island E: eric at vecoop.ca T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) C: 250-703-6004 W: viridianenergy.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 10:00:31 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 10:00:31 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radian transfer time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure about the radians (I've rarely used them) but with the VFX series, that symptom can sometimes be avoided by programming a cool down period so that the inverters drop the generator while it is still running at full speed. Alternatively, by narrowing the generator voltage window at the bottom end, the inverters will potentially drop the generator connection before the voltage output gets too low as the generator shuts down. Hope this helps, Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 9:49 AM Eric Smiley wrote: > I have an off grid system with three GS8048A inverters. > Every time it switches from generator charging to inverting - at the end > of absorption - the lights flicker and a propane boiler in the house goes > into fault. > I'm using Advanced AGS on the Mate3S. > > The loads don't exceed about 6 kW right now. > > Does anyone know if there's a way to reduce the transfer time? The > transition to charging is smooth. I don't understand why it's so clunky > transitioning back to inverting. > > > Eric Smiley > Project Manager, North Island > > E: eric at vecoop.ca > T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) > C: 250-703-6004 > W: viridianenergy.ca > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri Feb 4 10:08:58 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2022 10:08:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flickering lights on off grid AC coupled radian system In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1dfda98a1c878efb4c51829a0bee836b@redwoodalliance.org> Some LEDs will flicker at times with off grid AC coupled systems. I've seen this with Outback and Magnum. Some brands of LED seem stable. Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-02-02 14:59, Lars Ortegren wrote: > Wrenches, > I'm hoping to solve an issue we've had with a couple of our off grid AC > coupled systems. We have had multiple reports of different LED and > traditional ballasted fluorescent systems "flickering" during the day > when the AC systems are producing power. We havent had issues with > other off grid AC coupling using Sunny Islands, or even old VFX > inverters, but this does seem to be an issue directly related to the > Radians.I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this, and > if you found any hacks to "clean up" the power? > -- > > Lars Örtegren > > General Manager > > Co-Founder > > Worker-Owner > > He/Him > > https://www.cal-solar.coop/ > > 530 274 3671 | ext 307 > > lars at cal-solar.com > > www.Cal-Solar.coop > > 149 E. Main St, Grass Valley, CA 95945 > > NABCEP: #PVI-091110-89 > CSLB #779624 > > https://www.amicussolar.com/ https://www.nabcep.org/ > https://californiasolarco.com/quote/ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: blocked.gif Type: image/gif Size: 118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Feb 4 10:18:53 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 08:18:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flickering lights on off grid AC coupled radian system In-Reply-To: <1dfda98a1c878efb4c51829a0bee836b@redwoodalliance.org> References: <1dfda98a1c878efb4c51829a0bee836b@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <94CA5FC5-C6EB-4821-BEE7-3FF5F21247F6@solarwork.com> Ditto on misc flickering w LEDs on my Off grid Radian system I have some LEDs that are absolutely stable all the time and some of the smaller I guess I’d call them decorative type ones in a hanging lamp over a dining table seem to be unstable all the time and I would attribute that to Cheaper less reliable electronics in the LEDs & more so when are dimmed down . Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Feb 4, 2022, at 8:09 AM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote: > > Some LEDs will flicker at times with off grid AC coupled systems. I've seen this with Outback and Magnum. Some brands of LED seem stable. > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > --- > > >> On 2022-02-02 14:59, Lars Ortegren wrote: >> >> Wrenches, >> I'm hoping to solve an issue we've had with a couple of our off grid AC coupled systems. We have had multiple reports of different LED and traditional ballasted fluorescent systems "flickering" during the day when the AC systems are producing power. We havent had issues with other off grid AC coupling using Sunny Islands, or even old VFX inverters, but this does seem to be an issue directly related to the Radians.I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this, and if you found any hacks to "clean up" the power? >> -- >> Lars Örtegren >> General Manager >> Co-Founder >> Worker-Owner >> He/Him >> https://www.cal-solar.coop/ >> 530 274 3671 | ext 307 >> lars at cal-solar.com >> www.Cal-Solar.coop >> 149 E. Main St, Grass Valley, CA 95945 >> NABCEP: #PVI-091110-89 >> CSLB #779624 >> https://www.amicussolar.com/ https://www.nabcep.org/ >> https://californiasolarco.com/quote/ >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: blocked.gif Type: image/gif Size: 118 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From lou at spreesolarsystems.com Fri Feb 4 12:12:01 2022 From: lou at spreesolarsystems.com (Lou Russo) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 07:12:01 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Regional Sales Rep Message-ID: Aloha All, Does anyone have the contact info for the Enphase sales rep for Hawaii ( I believe the same person is in charge of Northern CA as well) ? The number I have does not work and customer support was of no help. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Feb 4 11:17:05 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 08:17:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics Event History changed Message-ID: <6c2580020acb74d5c73282b545e77518@mail.gmail.com> Friends: For those of you using Optics, the Event History page has changed. There is a filter drop-down that you need to use to see things like AGS activation. I did not notice this at first and it caused me some brief confusion and wasted time. Hopefully this heads-up will save you from the same fate. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 16:12:05 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 13:12:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flickering lights on off grid AC coupled radian system In-Reply-To: <94CA5FC5-C6EB-4821-BEE7-3FF5F21247F6@solarwork.com> References: <1dfda98a1c878efb4c51829a0bee836b@redwoodalliance.org> <94CA5FC5-C6EB-4821-BEE7-3FF5F21247F6@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <4E3506AF-3755-4577-9747-F89B643B3FBD@gmail.com> I’ve had LED lights, with multiples in one fixture, flicker on grid power. Brad Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:18 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > Ditto on misc flickering w LEDs on my Off grid Radian system > I have some LEDs that are absolutely stable all the time and some of the smaller I guess I’d call them decorative type ones in a hanging lamp over a dining table seem to be unstable all the time and I would attribute that to Cheaper less reliable electronics in the LEDs & more so when are dimmed down . > > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > >> On Feb 4, 2022, at 8:09 AM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote: >> >> Some LEDs will flicker at times with off grid AC coupled systems. I've seen this with Outback and Magnum. Some brands of LED seem stable. >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> Athens Electric LLC >> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 >> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> >> >> --- >> >> >>> On 2022-02-02 14:59, Lars Ortegren wrote: >>> >>> Wrenches, >>> I'm hoping to solve an issue we've had with a couple of our off grid AC coupled systems. We have had multiple reports of different LED and traditional ballasted fluorescent systems "flickering" during the day when the AC systems are producing power. We havent had issues with other off grid AC coupling using Sunny Islands, or even old VFX inverters, but this does seem to be an issue directly related to the Radians.I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this, and if you found any hacks to "clean up" the power? >>> -- >>> Lars Örtegren >>> General Manager >>> Co-Founder >>> Worker-Owner >>> He/Him >>> https://www.cal-solar.coop/ >>> 530 274 3671 | ext 307 >>> lars at cal-solar.com >>> www.Cal-Solar.coop >>> 149 E. Main St, Grass Valley, CA 95945 >>> NABCEP: #PVI-091110-89 >>> CSLB #779624 >>> https://www.amicussolar.com/ https://www.nabcep.org/ >>> https://californiasolarco.com/quote/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 17:05:17 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 15:05:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radian transfer time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A509EFD-8FF7-4B01-8FA9-C337D3A70729@gmail.com> HI Eric, Check that the transfer delay is as short as it can go, about 6 cycles You might raise the lower voltage limit from 108 Check to make sure all the voltage readings on each inverter are as close as possible. A real weakness of the OB platform is that you have to calibrate each item: And depending on how you have the power save mode configured, if might be that if you can get the generator to drop out with just 1 inverter active that might eliminate the transfer delay issues. Let us know what you find. jay > On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:48 AM, Eric Smiley wrote: > > I have an off grid system with three GS8048A inverters. > Every time it switches from generator charging to inverting - at the end of absorption - the lights flicker and a propane boiler in the house goes into fault. > I'm using Advanced AGS on the Mate3S. > > The loads don't exceed about 6 kW right now. > > Does anyone know if there's a way to reduce the transfer time? The transition to charging is smooth. I don't understand why it's so clunky transitioning back to inverting. > > > Eric Smiley > Project Manager, North Island > > E: eric at vecoop.ca > T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) > C: 250-703-6004 > W: viridianenergy.ca _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Feb 4 17:32:26 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 15:32:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flickering lights on off grid AC coupled radian system In-Reply-To: <4E3506AF-3755-4577-9747-F89B643B3FBD@gmail.com> References: <1dfda98a1c878efb4c51829a0bee836b@redwoodalliance.org> <94CA5FC5-C6EB-4821-BEE7-3FF5F21247F6@solarwork.com> <4E3506AF-3755-4577-9747-F89B643B3FBD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <896898BC-7348-4082-A1A7-676AB6B11C3F@gmail.com> I’ve never had LED flicker on the inverter but when battery charging for sure. The radian has a setting for that. jay > On Feb 4, 2022, at 2:12 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote: > > I’ve had LED lights, with multiples in one fixture, flicker on grid power. > > Brad > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:18 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: >> >> Ditto on misc flickering w LEDs on my Off grid Radian system >> I have some LEDs that are absolutely stable all the time and some of the smaller I guess I’d call them decorative type ones in a hanging lamp over a dining table seem to be unstable all the time and I would attribute that to Cheaper less reliable electronics in the LEDs & more so when are dimmed down . >> >> >> Dana Orzel >> C: 208.721.7003 >> E- dana at solarwork.com >> >>> On Feb 4, 2022, at 8:09 AM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote: >>> >>> Some LEDs will flicker at times with off grid AC coupled systems. I've seen this with Outback and Magnum. Some brands of LED seem stable. >>> >>> Drake Chamberlin >>> Athens Electric LLC >>> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 >>> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> >>>> On 2022-02-02 14:59, Lars Ortegren wrote: >>>> >>>> Wrenches, >>>> I'm hoping to solve an issue we've had with a couple of our off grid AC coupled systems. We have had multiple reports of different LED and traditional ballasted fluorescent systems "flickering" during the day when the AC systems are producing power. We havent had issues with other off grid AC coupling using Sunny Islands, or even old VFX inverters, but this does seem to be an issue directly related to the Radians.I'm wondering if any of you have had experience with this, and if you found any hacks to "clean up" the power? >>>> -- >>>> Lars Örtegren >>>> General Manager >>>> Co-Founder >>>> Worker-Owner >>>> He/Him >>>> https://www.cal-solar.coop/ >>>> 530 274 3671 | ext 307 >>>> lars at cal-solar.com >>>> www.Cal-Solar.coop >>>> 149 E. Main St, Grass Valley, CA 95945 >>>> NABCEP: #PVI-091110-89 >>>> CSLB #779624 >>>> https://www.amicussolar.com/ https://www.nabcep.org/ >>>> https://californiasolarco.com/quote/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sat Feb 5 21:55:18 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 18:55:18 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge/LG Troubleshooting Message-ID: <8FD93E6D-FA83-4796-B67B-A2D90EBDEB31@gmail.com> Wrenches, I received a call from a person who is having issues with his Solaredge/LG system. He’s got a SE7600A-US, StoreEdge connection unit, autotransformer, and LG battery. I’ve never laid hands on SE or LG equipment and could use some guidance here. He’s located several hours from me, and I’m the only Solar Bozo around> His Words: Happy Saturday Michael, thanks again for taking an interest in my solar situation. In June 2020 my 9.920 KW (15,752 kWh estimated production) solar system was installed by now bankrupt "Empire Solar". Thirty-one (31) 320W panels were installed on my roof. My system included a battery back-up system which utilizes an LG Li-Ion RESU10H battery (model #R15563P3SSEG). Unfortunately, more than a year passed after installation for a net metering agreement (NME) with Pacific Power to be put in place. Pacific Power installed a new compatible meter on my home the same week I learned Empire Solar filed for bankruptcy. Empire sent me an email with easy-to-follow instructions for turning my system on. I followed the very simple instructions with zero results. Pacific Power since confirmed my system is not generating any power. Currently, my "Solar Edge" inverter displays error code "2x1A - Faulty AC Relay". The inverter cycles through a 5-minute "wake-up" routine in which it counts down from 300 before it displays the aforementioned error code, then begins the wake-up countdown again and repeats this cycle endlessly until I power off the LG battery. Thanks everyone Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Feb 5 18:14:37 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 15:14:37 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Mate2 Message-ID: Colleagues: Do any of you know how to reset a bricked Mate3? If I could reset if I can donate it to one of my fixed-income clients. Thanks in advance. -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Sun Feb 6 03:06:52 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 08:06:52 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Mate2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure we're talking about the same thing, but I seem to recall if you hold down the far left and 3rd soft key (1&3 from the Left), while you power up, it resets the Mate 2. ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of William Miller Sent: Saturday, February 5, 2022 6:14 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Mate2 Colleagues: Do any of you know how to reset a bricked Mate3? If I could reset if I can donate it to one of my fixed-income clients. Thanks in advance. -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sun Feb 6 10:39:36 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 10:39:36 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Mate2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you are talking about registering (to a new owner) a previously registered unit in OpticsRE, the old owner has to sign an Outback form confirming they no longer own the unit, as I recall. A pain for sure depending on the circumstance. On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 3:07 AM Foxfire Energy wrote: > Not sure we're talking about the same thing, but I seem to recall if you > hold down the far left and 3rd soft key (1&3 from the Left), while you > power up, it resets the Mate 2. > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of William Miller > *Sent:* Saturday, February 5, 2022 6:14 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Bricked Mate2 > > Colleagues: > > Do any of you know how to reset a bricked Mate3? If I could reset if I > can donate it to one of my fixed-income clients. > > Thanks in advance. > -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Sun Feb 6 11:12:45 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 08:12:45 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Mate2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5148e111-f4cc-c657-83ad-93c4b849f89a@psln.com> I think that's the same trick I've used on OB MX and FM CCs  ?? On 2/6/2022 12:06 AM, Foxfire Energy wrote: > Not sure we're talking about the same thing, but I seem to recall if > you hold down the far left and 3^rd  soft key (1&3 from the Left), > while you power up, it resets the Mate 2. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on > behalf of William Miller > *Sent:* Saturday, February 5, 2022 6:14 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Bricked Mate2 > Colleagues: > > Do any of you know how to reset a bricked Mate3?  If I could reset if > I can donate it to one of my fixed-income clients. > > Thanks in advance. > -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon.siegenthaler at gmail.com Sun Feb 6 18:10:59 2022 From: jon.siegenthaler at gmail.com (Jon Siegenthaler) Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2022 17:10:59 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge/LG Troubleshooting Message-ID: Hi Michael, I've been there with Solaredge and LG so many times I just call them after it's all installed and make them walk me through the commissioning process. Yes, we are solar professionals and yes we can read and follow instructions BUT, I've sent back fully working inverters after tech support couldn't figure out an issue they programmed. You'll have to sit on call waiting for a couple of hours but DO NOT let them hang up until it's working. While I cannot remember ever seeing this error code, and as you may be suspecting it could do with the; battery wiring either comm or power, the auto transformer either comm or power, or the inverter comm or power. If the owner can get really clear photos and if everything is easy to follow (like different colored comm wires rather than all black wires) then you might be able to see if that is the problem. It could be a bad inverter but it could just be a simple thing that tech support can change remotely. Side note, if folks are waiting a year for interconnection but passed local inspections, can't you start out as zero export and change once the utility gives PTO? Maybe not but it's worth asking. Jon Michael Morningstar Sat, 05 Feb 2022 18:55:31 -0800 Wrenches, I received a call from a person who is having issues with his Solaredge/LG system. He’s got a SE7600A-US, StoreEdge connection unit, autotransformer, and LG battery. I’ve never laid hands on SE or LG equipment and could use some guidance here. He’s located several hours from me, and I’m the only Solar Bozo around> His Words: Happy Saturday Michael, thanks again for taking an interest in my solar situation. In June 2020 my 9.920 KW (15,752 kWh estimated production) solar system was installed by now bankrupt "Empire Solar". Thirty-one (31) 320W panels were installed on my roof. My system included a battery back-up system which utilizes an LG Li-Ion RESU10H battery (model #R15563P3SSEG). Unfortunately, more than a year passed after installation for a net metering agreement (NME) with Pacific Power to be put in place. Pacific Power installed a new compatible meter on my home the same week I learned Empire Solar filed for bankruptcy. Empire sent me an email with easy-to-follow instructions for turning my system on. I followed the very simple instructions with zero results. Pacific Power since confirmed my system is not generating any power. Currently, my "Solar Edge" inverter displays error code "2x1A - Faulty AC Relay". The inverter cycles through a 5-minute "wake-up" routine in which it counts down from 300 before it displays the aforementioned error code, then begins the wake-up countdown again and repeats this cycle endlessly until I power off the LG battery. Thanks everyone Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Hans at fredelectric.com Mon Feb 7 12:24:31 2022 From: Hans at fredelectric.com (Hans Frederickson) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 17:24:31 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrites for EMP/solar flare protection? Message-ID: Wrenches, One of our grid-tied solar + storage customers with a SolarEdge StorEdge / LG Chem RESU10H system found some information online about protecting solar systems from an EMP: Solar Power Ferrite Bundle - Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family (disasterpreparer.com) Our customer is asking for our recommendation on this. We have used Ferrites for filtering out inverter noise but I'm not familiar with the idea of using them for protection from EMPs. Does anyone on this group specify or recommend these sorts of products for that purpose? Is there any historical evidence of EMPs being a threat to solar systems? Thanks, -Hans Hans Frederickson, President [Cascadia Solar] www.cascadiasolar.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 5986 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Mon Feb 7 12:52:20 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 11:52:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrites for EMP/solar flare protection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hans, Here is a split ferrite kit (various sizes) from Mouser.com: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Laird-Performance-Materials/K-404-EMI-A-LG?qs=GedFDFLaBXEg9IWU3Su8DQ%3D%3D Sol-Ark makes an EMP hardened inverter and that kit comes with ferrite cores for each solar panel. Both normal and EMP version come with ferrite cores for the battery cables, Schnieder 600V solar charge controllers comes with cores and older inverters also came with cores. so, it seems cores are good even for regular systems, such as to combat back EMF from larger motor loads / inductive loads. So, the bottom line is that is helpful to block line surges by using ferrite cores to suppress voltage spikes & surges. And like lightning, you can do the best that you can do and too many parameters can guarantee anything. I going to investigate further and make kits for my own customers. Good luck! Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Feb 7, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Hans Frederickson wrote: > > Wrenches, > One of our grid-tied solar + storage customers with a SolarEdge StorEdge / LG Chem RESU10H system found some information online about protecting solar systems from an EMP: > > Solar Power Ferrite Bundle – Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family (disasterpreparer.com) > > Our customer is asking for our recommendation on this. We have used Ferrites for filtering out inverter noise but I’m not familiar with the idea of using them for protection from EMPs. Does anyone on this group specify or recommend these sorts of products for that purpose? Is there any historical evidence of EMPs being a threat to solar systems? > Thanks, > -Hans > Hans Frederickson, President > > > www.cascadiasolar.com » > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atruitt at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 13:20:38 2022 From: atruitt at gmail.com (Andrew Truitt) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 11:20:38 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV+EV charging Message-ID: Wrenches, This year's NABCEP conference will feature a panel session on PV+EV charging, including topics such as the state of the market, relevant rate tariffs/regulations/incentives, current equipment capabilities, vehicle-to-grid considerations, key players in the space (e.g. Beam, Enphase+ClipperCreek, 365 Pronto, ChargeNet...), and economic optimization. Is anyone out there installing co-located and integrated PV+EV charging right now? If so what equipment are you using and what challenges and benefits are you seeing? Feel free to contact me off-list. Regards, Andrew Truitt www.remotesolar.com d: 202.486.7507 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66 Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132 "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!" ~William McDonough -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Feb 7 15:57:30 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 15:57:30 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Monitoring Access Message-ID: Does anyone know if there is an easier way to get access to a client's monitoring site? The Site Transfer Form is an infuriating process and customer service takes forever to process forms in my experience. Enphase makes this SO much easier. I'm [reluctantly] taking on quite a few service clients due to bankrupt contractors leaving SolarEdge owners hanging. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Feb 7 16:15:00 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 16:15:00 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Monitoring Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe I just got lucky, but at least once I just called (or maybe even only submitted a ticket to) SolarEdge about an orphaned system asking for installer access and they just granted it. It's worth a shot. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 3:57 PM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > Does anyone know if there is an easier way to get access to a client's > monitoring site? The Site Transfer Form is an infuriating process and > customer service takes forever to process forms in my experience. Enphase > makes this SO much easier. I'm [reluctantly] taking on quite a few service > clients due to bankrupt contractors leaving SolarEdge owners hanging. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Mon Feb 7 17:52:40 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 15:52:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Monitoring Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I don't have a ton of SolarEdge experience, but I found that they seem pretty good at chat support. Fairly fast and effective the few times I've done it. Hopefully they could resolve this issue using this method. You can sign up as an installer and then log in here. https://www.solaredge.com/us/service/support/kb?mode=installer It will bring up a chat box option. I may also just start a tech support case and see where that leads. Good Luck On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 2:15 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Maybe I just got lucky, but at least once I just called (or maybe even > only submitted a ticket to) SolarEdge about an orphaned system asking for > installer access and they just granted it. It's worth a shot. > Cheers, > Dave > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 3:57 PM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> Does anyone know if there is an easier way to get access to a client's >> monitoring site? The Site Transfer Form is an infuriating process and >> customer service takes forever to process forms in my experience. Enphase >> makes this SO much easier. I'm [reluctantly] taking on quite a few service >> clients due to bankrupt contractors leaving SolarEdge owners hanging. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Mon Feb 7 22:36:51 2022 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 22:36:51 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrites for EMP/solar flare protection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00de01d81c9d$1dcff200$596fd600$@glbcc.com> I am not seeing how ferrites can stop EMP. The frequencies involved will affect diode junction level electronics. Ferrites may lessen the induced surge picked up by the conductors between the array and the inverter/charge controller, but unless the electronics are hardened too, I don’t believe it. Glenn From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Maverick Brown Sent: Monday, February 07, 2022 12:52 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrites for EMP/solar flare protection? Hans, Here is a split ferrite kit (various sizes) from Mouser.com : https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Laird-Performance-Materials/K-404-EMI-A-LG?qs=GedFDFLaBXEg9IWU3Su8DQ%3D%3D Sol-Ark makes an EMP hardened inverter and that kit comes with ferrite cores for each solar panel. Both normal and EMP version come with ferrite cores for the battery cables, Schnieder 600V solar charge controllers comes with cores and older inverters also came with cores. so, it seems cores are good even for regular systems, such as to combat back EMF from larger motor loads / inductive loads. So, the bottom line is that is helpful to block line surges by using ferrite cores to suppress voltage spikes & surges. And like lightning, you can do the best that you can do and too many parameters can guarantee anything. I going to investigate further and make kits for my own customers. Good luck! Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Feb 7, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Hans Frederickson > wrote: Wrenches, One of our grid-tied solar + storage customers with a SolarEdge StorEdge / LG Chem RESU10H system found some information online about protecting solar systems from an EMP: Solar Power Ferrite Bundle – Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family (disasterpreparer.com) Our customer is asking for our recommendation on this. We have used Ferrites for filtering out inverter noise but I’m not familiar with the idea of using them for protection from EMPs. Does anyone on this group specify or recommend these sorts of products for that purpose? Is there any historical evidence of EMPs being a threat to solar systems? Thanks, -Hans Hans Frederickson, President www.cascadiasolar.com » _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Tue Feb 8 10:20:26 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 07:20:26 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AP Smart failure In-Reply-To: <00de01d81c9d$1dcff200$596fd600$@glbcc.com> References: <00de01d81c9d$1dcff200$596fd600$@glbcc.com> Message-ID: <3500e124-6f12-e6bc-4801-53ad453f9d43@psln.com> If an AP Smart fails does it sometimes or always take out the string.  And how is it found in the string?  Any melted or near fire type failures out there? Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 www.frenergy.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From toddcory at finestplanet.com Tue Feb 8 11:35:14 2022 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (toddcory at finestplanet.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 08:35:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?Ferrites_for_EMP/solar_flare_protection?= =?utf-8?q?=3F?= In-Reply-To: <17ed77c61c0.27c7.4317fda5bda71af373de9c45c94f08a7@finestplanet.com> References: <00de01d81c9d$1dcff200$596fd600$@glbcc.com> <17ed77c61c0.27c7.4317fda5bda71af373de9c45c94f08a7@finestplanet.com> Message-ID: <1644338114.198923964@webmail.finestplanet.com> What about Midnight SPDs? Todd On February 7, 2022 7:37:04 PM "Glenn Burt" wrote: I am not seeing how ferrites can stop EMP. The frequencies involved will affect diode junction level electronics. Ferrites may lessen the induced surge picked up by the conductors between the array and the inverter/charge controller, but unless the electronics are hardened too, I don’t believe it. Glenn From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Maverick Brown Sent: Monday, February 07, 2022 12:52 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrites for EMP/solar flare protection? Hans, Here is a split ferrite kit (various sizes) from [ Mouser.com ]( http://Mouser.com ): [ https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Laird-Performance-Materials/K-404-EMI-A-LG?qs=GedFDFLaBXEg9IWU3Su8DQ%3D%3D ]( https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Laird-Performance-Materials/K-404-EMI-A-LG?qs=GedFDFLaBXEg9IWU3Su8DQ== ) Sol-Ark makes an EMP hardened inverter and that kit comes with ferrite cores for each solar panel. Both normal and EMP version come with ferrite cores for the battery cables, Schnieder 600V solar charge controllers comes with cores and older inverters also came with cores. so, it seems cores are good even for regular systems, such as to combat back EMF from larger motor loads / inductive loads. So, the bottom line is that is helpful to block line surges by using ferrite cores to suppress voltage spikes & surges. And like lightning, you can do the best that you can do and too many parameters can guarantee anything. I going to investigate further and make kits for my own customers. Good luck! Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection [ maverick at mavericksolar.com ]( mailto:maverick at mavericksolar.com ) 512-460-9825 On Feb 7, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Hans Frederickson <[ Hans at fredelectric.com ]( mailto:Hans at fredelectric.com )> wrote: Wrenches, One of our grid-tied solar + storage customers with a SolarEdge StorEdge / LG Chem RESU10H system found some information online about protecting solar systems from an EMP: [ Solar Power Ferrite Bundle – Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family (disasterpreparer.com) ]( https://disasterpreparer.com/product/solar-ferrite-bundle/ ) Our customer is asking for our recommendation on this. We have used Ferrites for filtering out inverter noise but I’m not familiar with the idea of using them for protection from EMPs. Does anyone on this group specify or recommend these sorts of products for that purpose? Is there any historical evidence of EMPs being a threat to solar systems? Thanks, -Hans Hans Frederickson, President [ www.cascadiasolar.com » ]( http://cascadiasolar.com/ ) _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: [ http://re-wrenches.org ]( http://re-wrenches.org/ ) List Address: [ RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ) Change listserver email address & settings: [ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ]( http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ) There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: [ https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ ]( https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ ) [ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ]( http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ) List rules & etiquette: [ http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm ]( http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm ) Check out or update participant bios: [ http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ]( http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ ) _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: [ http://re-wrenches.org ]( http://re-wrenches.org ) List Address: [ RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:RE-wrenches%40lists.re-wrenches.org ) Change listserver email address & settings: [ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ]( http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ) There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: [ https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ ]( https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ ) [ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ]( http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ) List rules & etiquette: [ http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm ]( http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm ) Check out or update participant bios: [ http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ]( http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ) Sent with [ AquaMail for Android ]( https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kman.AquaMail ) [ https://www.mobisystems.com/aqua-mail ]( https://www.mobisystems.com/aqua-mail ) Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at midnitesolar.com Tue Feb 8 15:25:13 2022 From: bob at midnitesolar.com (bob at midnitesolar.com) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:25:13 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ferrites for EMP/solar flare protection? In-Reply-To: <1644338114.198923964@webmail.finestplanet.com> References: <00de01d81c9d$1dcff200$596fd600$@glbcc.com> <17ed77c61c0.27c7.4317fda5bda71af373de9c45c94f08a7@finestplanet.com> <1644338114.198923964@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: No Problem !  If one of our SPDs break from a nuclear EMP, just send it back and we'll replace it ! Did you realize that if you rearrange the first two letters of the word "nuclear", you get unclear ? boB On 2/8/2022 9:35 AM, toddcory at finestplanet.com wrote: > > What about Midnight SPDs? > > Todd > > On February 7, 2022 7:37:04 PM "Glenn Burt" wrote: > > I am not seeing how ferrites can stop EMP. The frequencies > involved will affect diode junction level electronics. > > Ferrites may lessen the induced surge picked up by the conductors > between the array and the inverter/charge controller, but unless > the electronics are hardened too, I don’t believe it. > > Glenn > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Maverick Brown > *Sent:* Monday, February 07, 2022 12:52 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrites for EMP/solar flare protection? > > Hans, > > Here is a split ferrite kit (various sizes) from Mouser.com > : > > https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Laird-Performance-Materials/K-404-EMI-A-LG?qs=GedFDFLaBXEg9IWU3Su8DQ%3D%3D > > > Sol-Ark makes an EMP hardened inverter and that kit comes with > ferrite cores for each solar panel. Both normal and EMP version > come with ferrite cores for the battery cables, Schnieder 600V > solar charge controllers comes with cores and older inverters also > came with cores. so, it seems cores are good even for regular > systems, such as to combat back EMF from larger motor loads / > inductive loads. > > So, the bottom line is that is helpful to block line surges by > using ferrite cores to suppress voltage spikes & surges. And like > lightning, you can do the best that you can do and too many > parameters can guarantee anything. > > I going to investigate further and make kits for my own customers. > > Good luck! > > Maverick > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > > On Feb 7, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Hans Frederickson > wrote: > > Wrenches, > > One of our grid-tied solar + storage customers with a > SolarEdge StorEdge / LG Chem RESU10H system found some > information online about protecting solar systems from an EMP: > > Solar Power Ferrite Bundle – Practical Disaster Preparedness > for the Family (disasterpreparer.com) > > > Our customer is asking for our recommendation on this. We have > used Ferrites for filtering out inverter noise but I’m not > familiar with the idea of using them for protection from EMPs. > Does anyone on this group specify or recommend these sorts of > products for that purpose? Is there any historical evidence of > EMPs being a threat to solar systems? > > Thanks, > > -Hans > > *Hans Frederickson,*President > > > > *www.cascadiasolar.com »* > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > Sent with AquaMail for Android > > https://www.mobisystems.com/aqua-mail > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com Tue Feb 8 18:15:22 2022 From: jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com (Jeremy Coxon) Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 18:15:22 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AP Smart failure In-Reply-To: <3500e124-6f12-e6bc-4801-53ad453f9d43@psln.com> References: <3500e124-6f12-e6bc-4801-53ad453f9d43@psln.com> Message-ID: Bill, This was the subject of a thread last year on this forum. Briefly- we had a very negative experience with APSmart RSD last year. SMA inverter threw all sorts of weird errors after about a week of normal operation. It would operate normally if a hard reset was preformed each morning. Spent many hours on SMA tech support calls. Changed inverter, problem persisted. We then attempted to get support from APSmart in concert with SMA level 2 folks, but very high language barrier and zero accountability - we purchased their high output signal device and spent time installing that even though we had a good RSD signal from the inverter. We checked every connection, wire, panel, etc and found nothing. Eventually, inverter threw an arc fault code so We went back up on roof, removed panels and found that one of the APSmart RSD’s had essentially exploded. There was molten plastic on the roof, a big flame mark under 2 panels and on the roof. Thankfully, it was a metal roof with no leafy materials so 911 wasn’t called! Bottom line, I won’t ever be using their equipment agin. They completely failed to understand the magnitude of this failure, which is what bothered me the most. The customer lost all faith in going solar and was on the brink of asking us to remove the system. We lost money and a lot of good referrals on that job. So yeah, I’m NOT a fan. Hopefully you’ll be able to see this pic: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 91238 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Jeremy Coxon NABCEP Certified MWBE Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 8, 2022, at 10:20 AM, frenergy wrote: > > If an AP Smart fails does it sometimes or always take out the string. And how is it found in the string? Any melted or near fire type failures out there? > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > www.frenergy.net > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > From louis at woofenden.net Thu Feb 10 22:16:58 2022 From: louis at woofenden.net (Louis Woofenden) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 20:16:58 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarApp+ app from NREL - has anyone used this for permitting? In-Reply-To: <0D420E19-D7C6-486E-A19D-404276BCC3E6@evcl.com> References: <0D420E19-D7C6-486E-A19D-404276BCC3E6@evcl.com> Message-ID: Hi David & Wrenches, We participated in the pilot of SolarAPP starting around February of last year, for Pima County and the City of Tucson here in Arizona, and have continued to use it as was fully rolled out. It's a great tool! It's really sped up the process for permits we use it for, allowing for same-day permits for about 80-90% of our jobs in those AHJs. It does have a few quirks to learn, and there are some limitations as to what installations can go through SolarAPP. NREL and their development partners have been pretty responsive in terms of improvements and corrections, as well as increasing functionality. The main benefit we have found is speed. The City of Tucson had a serious backlog in permit applications, and we were sometimes waiting 10-12 weeks for permits, which was pretty frustrating. From the AHJ perspective, it's saving them a _lot_ of review time. NREL has shared some good stats in some of the presentations they've done. We still do a full set of construction plans, even though that's not part of SolarAPP, mostly to have a solid detailed plan for our installers, but also because some utilities are still requiring some of those sheets. Best, Louis Woofenden Net Zero Solar Tucson, AZ David Coale wrote on 2/2/22 3:13 PM: > Hi Wrenchers, > > Has anyone used the SolarApp+ application for permitting solar?  It is > just getting started and sounds very promising and could greatly > reduce the soft costs of installations. > > More info can be found here: https://solarapp.nrel.gov/ > > David > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kpegg at energyalternatives.ca Fri Feb 11 11:49:40 2022 From: kpegg at energyalternatives.ca (Kevin Pegg) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 16:49:40 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW pro generator synch challenges Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I am setting up my first XW Pro in an off-grid dual generator config. I did not intend on the Pro version but it was all I could obtain for this job. On AC1 With the factory default settings of 55/65 Hz min max, and the gen running at 62 Hz unloaded it just refused to qualify the power even though it was within spec. By lowering RPM to 61.5 Hz it then will qualify fine. Curious. AC2 does not have this issue even small portable gens will synch and charge fine. The challenge I am having now is sometimes it will qualify the generator power, engage and charge, but sometimes it will just engage AC Passthrough and refuse to charge, either manual gen run or automatic by low battery condition. Obviously a problem when gen auto starts but then refuses to charge. Is there a way to program this inverter to be more off-grid friendly? I am assuming AC1 which is normally for grid input has a lot tighter tolerances, even if programming suggests otherwise. Thanks, Kevin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Fri Feb 11 17:56:04 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 14:56:04 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW pro generator synch challenges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Install the newest firmware for the Gateway(Your gonna need one) and the Pro. Then get into region settings and try one until it works. I can’t recall which one. We’ve had to do this to the dozen or so XW Pros we’ve installed to get them to play nice with generators. Once they are set up, they work without glitches. > On Feb 11, 2022, at 8:49 AM, Kevin Pegg wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > I am setting up my first XW Pro in an off-grid dual generator config. I did not intend on the Pro version but it was all I could obtain for this job. On AC1 With the factory default settings of 55/65 Hz min max, and the gen running at 62 Hz unloaded it just refused to qualify the power even though it was within spec. By lowering RPM to 61.5 Hz it then will qualify fine. Curious. AC2 does not have this issue even small portable gens will synch and charge fine. > > The challenge I am having now is sometimes it will qualify the generator power, engage and charge, but sometimes it will just engage AC Passthrough and refuse to charge, either manual gen run or automatic by low battery condition. Obviously a problem when gen auto starts but then refuses to charge. > > Is there a way to program this inverter to be more off-grid friendly? I am assuming AC1 which is normally for grid input has a lot tighter tolerances, even if programming suggests otherwise. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From welch.nicholas.r at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 15:00:50 2022 From: welch.nicholas.r at gmail.com (Nicholas Welch) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:00:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Anywhere Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Has anyone here taken the plunge in partnering with Tesla for their "Tesla Anywhere" program? If so, I'd love to chat off forum. Please let me know and I will send my contact info. Thanks in advance, Nick Welch NC Electrical License #34779 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Feb 15 15:43:58 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 13:43:58 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere Message-ID: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> Very good! I was just about to ask the same question. I have 1 new construction request for a “Tesla” system. Between Snow country [Where I think the roof tile is not appropriate & from what I hear not available as it is still in prototype testing & costing twice what Tesla wants to sell it for] & the fact that I cannot get anyone at Tesla to call me back. I am wondering what other folks experience has been. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Nicholas Welch Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 1:01 PM To: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Anywhere Hello Wrenches, Has anyone here taken the plunge in partnering with Tesla for their "Tesla Anywhere" program? If so, I'd love to chat off forum. Please let me know and I will send my contact info. Thanks in advance, Nick Welch NC Electrical License #34779 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Feb 15 15:51:21 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:51:21 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere In-Reply-To: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> References: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: That's the problem. They don't want to talk to you, unless maybe you're interested in buying solar shingles and storage as a package deal. I've applied for certification several times over the last 2 yrs, and no response. And present dealers tell me their dealer network is falling apart. No support whatsoever. Old Elon should concentrate more on his terrestrial interests instead of spaceman ambitions. On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 3:44 PM Dana Orzel wrote: > Very good! I was just about to ask the same question. I have 1 new > construction request for a “Tesla” system. Between Snow country [Where I > think the roof tile is not appropriate & from what I hear not available as > it is still in prototype testing & costing twice what Tesla wants to sell > it for] & the fact that I cannot get anyone at Tesla to call me back. > > > > I am wondering what other folks experience has been. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Nicholas Welch > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 1:01 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Tesla Anywhere > > > > Hello Wrenches, > > > > Has anyone here taken the plunge in partnering with Tesla for their "Tesla > Anywhere" program? If so, I'd love to chat off forum. Please let me know > and I will send my contact info. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Nick Welch > > NC Electrical License #34779 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Tue Feb 15 16:00:52 2022 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:00:52 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere In-Reply-To: References: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Gotta say the same thing here in NY. I've applied and sent credentials 3x now with little to no response over the last 2 years. The local Tesla car dealer wants us onboard as they are getting a lot of complaints from their car clients when it comes to their charger installation's crew. I'm told they are just local electricians. After all this I gotta tell ya I'm not exactly excited to get on board if we don't have the support. Afterall haven't we already lived through this with our current inverter factory support teams to some extent? Christopher On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 3:52 PM Kirk Herander wrote: > That's the problem. They don't want to talk to you, unless maybe you're > interested in buying solar shingles and storage as a package deal. I've > applied for certification several times over the last 2 yrs, and no > response. And present dealers tell me their dealer network is falling > apart. No support whatsoever. > > Old Elon should concentrate more on his terrestrial interests instead of > spaceman ambitions. > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 3:44 PM Dana Orzel wrote: > >> Very good! I was just about to ask the same question. I have 1 new >> construction request for a “Tesla” system. Between Snow country [Where I >> think the roof tile is not appropriate & from what I hear not available as >> it is still in prototype testing & costing twice what Tesla wants to sell >> it for] & the fact that I cannot get anyone at Tesla to call me back. >> >> >> >> I am wondering what other folks experience has been. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >> * >> >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> >> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * >> >> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Nicholas Welch >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 1:01 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Tesla Anywhere >> >> >> >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> >> >> Has anyone here taken the plunge in partnering with Tesla for their >> "Tesla Anywhere" program? If so, I'd love to chat off forum. Please let me >> know and I will send my contact info. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> >> Nick Welch >> >> NC Electrical License #34779 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cometenergysystems at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 16:00:51 2022 From: cometenergysystems at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:00:51 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere In-Reply-To: References: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: This is vapourware and the customers fall for it everytime. I had someone here in Anguilla insist they wanted Tesla solar tiles or nothing. they would not believe me it was a terrible idea, especially in a hurricane area, and tesla was not going to sell it to her. Ended up doing nothing. Tesla kills solar deals. On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 4:52 PM Kirk Herander wrote: > That's the problem. They don't want to talk to you, unless maybe you're > interested in buying solar shingles and storage as a package deal. I've > applied for certification several times over the last 2 yrs, and no > response. And present dealers tell me their dealer network is falling > apart. No support whatsoever. > > Old Elon should concentrate more on his terrestrial interests instead of > spaceman ambitions. > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2022 at 3:44 PM Dana Orzel wrote: > >> Very good! I was just about to ask the same question. I have 1 new >> construction request for a “Tesla” system. Between Snow country [Where I >> think the roof tile is not appropriate & from what I hear not available as >> it is still in prototype testing & costing twice what Tesla wants to sell >> it for] & the fact that I cannot get anyone at Tesla to call me back. >> >> >> >> I am wondering what other folks experience has been. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >> * >> >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> >> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * >> >> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Nicholas Welch >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 1:01 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Tesla Anywhere >> >> >> >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> >> >> Has anyone here taken the plunge in partnering with Tesla for their >> "Tesla Anywhere" program? If so, I'd love to chat off forum. Please let me >> know and I will send my contact info. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> >> Nick Welch >> >> NC Electrical License #34779 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Tue Feb 15 21:21:01 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:21:01 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere In-Reply-To: References: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Yea Tesla blew it big time with their approach with distributors and installers.  Many of us reached out to them early on only to be met with silence and then to find out that some fly-by-night or new start-up received a territory covering big areas including several experienced installers that were ignored. And then the stories starting rolling in of shoddy installs - bad service - long waits - no supply.  What they could have had if they just partnered with the existing solar industry instead of the arrogant attitude they knew better . . . Then it became clear perhaps we were better off!  Their early embrace of Li-NMC turned out to be not a great option with LFPs coming along - and although we were hopeful they might get solar shingles right - they never overcame the inherent challenges (all those plugs! and no cooling!)  - we saw it in the 2000s with (what was it "American Solar Shingles" or some such name). I love that Elon stepped up the game for folks to embrace EVs and Solar - but the execution - super dissapointing and maybe even damaging in the long run for solar. Here's kudos to all high integrity solar providers out there that have served the industry for years!  We commend you intent Elon - but next time you might ask those that have been doing it for years to partner with you! best, Jeff > Chris Schaefer > February 15, 2022 at 4:00 PM > Gotta say the same thing here in NY. I've applied and sent credentials > 3x now with little to no response over the last 2 years. The local > Tesla car dealer wants us onboard as they are getting a lot of > complaints from their car clients when it comes to their charger > installation's crew. I'm told they are just local electricians. After > all this I gotta tell ya I'm not exactly excited to get on board if we > don't have the support. Afterall haven't we already lived through this > with our current inverter factory support teams to some extent? > > Christopher > > > > -- > > Chris Schaefer’s > > /Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 > //5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 > //www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: > chris at solarandwindfx.com / > > / > / > > Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, > "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are > willing to work and give to those who would not." > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Kirk Herander > February 15, 2022 at 3:51 PM > That's the problem. They don't want to talk to you, unless maybe > you're interested in buying solar shingles and storage as a package > deal. I've applied for certification several times over the last 2 > yrs, and no response. And present dealers tell me their dealer network > is falling apart. No support whatsoever. > > Old Elon should concentrate more on his terrestrial interests instead > of spaceman ambitions. > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dana Orzel > February 15, 2022 at 3:43 PM > > Very good! I was just about to ask the same question. I have 1 new > construction request for a “Tesla” system. Between Snow country [Where > I think the roof tile is not appropriate & from what I hear not > available as it is still in prototype testing & costing twice what > Tesla wants to sell it for] & the fact that I cannot get anyone at > Tesla to call me back. > > I am wondering what other folks experience has been. > > Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com* > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > > _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" ___ > > *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Nicholas Welch > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 1:01 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Tesla Anywhere > > Hello Wrenches, > > Has anyone here taken the plunge in partnering with Tesla for their > "Tesla Anywhere" program? If so, I'd love to chat off forum. Please > let me know and I will send my contact info. > > Thanks in advance, > > Nick Welch > > NC Electrical License #34779 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Tue Feb 15 21:50:18 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:50:18 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere In-Reply-To: References: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <02ec01d822df$efce3670$cf6aa350$@com> Aloha all, I’m going to pipe up here regarding Tesla. I’ve been in the solar field since 1978, am a supervising electrician as well as the RME with the electrical contracting license. My company has been a Tesla certified installer since 2018 here in Hawaii and I’ve had Powerwalls on my home over the past several years and was the first in my company to do so as I wanted to walk our talk before selling and installing them. While they had some issues early on with the roll-out of the Powerwall 2, I have to say that these past years I’ve been quite pleased and impressed with the product and performance and overall back-up from Tesla tech support. (And no, I’m not a shill for the company or anyone else for that matter.) In fact, the mothership lets us know pre-emptively if a Powerwall is not meeting their operating specs and they’re quick with the RMAs. And I’m looking forward to the new Powerwall+ which is now shipping. The PW+ is the combination of the Powerwall 13.5 kWh and a Tesla-designed and branded 7.6 kW inverter with, along with their Gateway, allows for an integrated design with all the important components of a PV system to be Tesla. Which I expect to be an improvement over pairing Powerwall with SolarEdge, Enphase or SMA. As well, we can now offer a 25-year wraparound warranty on Tesla mods, Tesla inverter and Powerwall. Where else are you going to find a 25-year warranty on a battery? Finally, having recently compared pricing with LiFePo battery platforms of similar capacities, Powerwall and Powerwall+ pricing is aggressive. marco From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Clearwater Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 4:21 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere Yea Tesla blew it big time with their approach with distributors and installers. Many of us reached out to them early on only to be met with silence and then to find out that some fly-by-night or new start-up received a territory covering big areas including several experienced installers that were ignored. And then the stories starting rolling in of shoddy installs - bad service - long waits - no supply. What they could have had if they just partnered with the existing solar industry instead of the arrogant attitude they knew better . . . Then it became clear perhaps we were better off! Their early embrace of Li-NMC turned out to be not a great option with LFPs coming along - and although we were hopeful they might get solar shingles right - they never overcame the inherent challenges (all those plugs! and no cooling!) - we saw it in the 2000s with (what was it "American Solar Shingles" or some such name). I love that Elon stepped up the game for folks to embrace EVs and Solar - but the execution - super dissapointing and maybe even damaging in the long run for solar. Here's kudos to all high integrity solar providers out there that have served the industry for years! We commend you intent Elon - but next time you might ask those that have been doing it for years to partner with you! best, Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Feb 15 23:38:02 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 20:38:02 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] ] Tesla Anywhere In-Reply-To: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> References: <00b201d822ac$c1e9e480$45bdad80$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Historically everyone that has manufactured shingle or tile solar modules have failed, Dow Corning as a recent failure, Open Energy is another. So many connections and small wattage modules. 3 years and many modules are failing. Why would anyone go back 25 years and use 60 to 90 modules just to get 6 to 7 kW. This is the wrong direction to go but few listen untill its too late and the company is gone. But hey what do l know I've only done this for nearly 40 years. On Tue, Feb 15, 2022, 12:44 PM Dana Orzel wrote: > Very good! I was just about to ask the same question. I have 1 new > construction request for a “Tesla” system. Between Snow country [Where I > think the roof tile is not appropriate & from what I hear not available as > it is still in prototype testing & costing twice what Tesla wants to sell > it for] & the fact that I cannot get anyone at Tesla to call me back. > > > > I am wondering what other folks experience has been. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Nicholas Welch > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 15, 2022 1:01 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Tesla Anywhere > > > > Hello Wrenches, > > > > Has anyone here taken the plunge in partnering with Tesla for their "Tesla > Anywhere" program? If so, I'd love to chat off forum. Please let me know > and I will send my contact info. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Nick Welch > > NC Electrical License #34779 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Feb 16 14:23:37 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:23:37 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups Message-ID: Hello all, I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Wed Feb 16 14:42:09 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 19:42:09 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I seem to recall OB tech were just replacing early Mate3.. Something about them being flaky somehow.. Might want to give them a call.. specially if they're still under warranty. db ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Kirk Herander Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 2:23 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups Hello all, I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Wed Feb 16 14:58:19 2022 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 14:58:19 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Currently experiencing the exact same issue with a new unit installed in November of 2021. The internet connection is via Hughes Net. The bad thing is it is up in snow country so once the dish gets full snow your done till it is removed or melts. Once the internet returns the client also has security cameras so they can tell that the internet is back up and running but the Mate3s stays offline till you unplug it and reboot. I generally set the auto reboot to 24 hours. Any suggestions? Christopher On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 2:42 PM Foxfire Energy wrote: > I seem to recall OB tech were just replacing early Mate3.. Something about > them being flaky somehow.. Might want to give them a call.. specially if > they're still under warranty. > > db > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Kirk Herander > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2022 2:23 PM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups > > Hello all, > > I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host > lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. > But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a > normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Wed Feb 16 15:07:32 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 13:07:32 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk -- Is it connected to OpticsRE, and do you get "Gateway Offline" status when this happens? I've had weird offline intervals in the past, and many Mate 3s firmware updates ago I set them to auto reboot every 24 hours which fixed weird offline intervals. My experience with Mate 3s / OpticsRE over HughesNet has been 50/50; works for some sites, not for others. The auto reboot has fixed all my similar issues so far as Chris mentions, but I have not had any problems with it not finding DHCP and getting back online by itself after an internet outage. Never seen that before here. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:24 PM Kirk Herander wrote: > Hello all, > > I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host > lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. > But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a > normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Feb 16 15:32:09 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 15:32:09 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yep, "gateway offline" id the OpticsRE message. I will explore the auto-reboot, is it programmable through OptisRE? I've never gotten a Mate3s to communicate over satellite internet. Just didn't work, even though the household LAN was fine over it. The customer had to invest in a Verizon cell modem( ie. jetpack) and I used the SIM card in a 3rd party modem, that works fine. On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 3:07 PM Dan Fink wrote: > Kirk -- Is it connected to OpticsRE, and do you get "Gateway Offline" > status when this happens? I've had weird offline intervals in the past, and > many Mate 3s firmware updates ago I set them to auto reboot every 24 hours > which fixed weird offline intervals. My experience with Mate 3s / OpticsRE > over HughesNet has been 50/50; works for some sites, not for others. The > auto reboot has fixed all my similar issues so far as Chris mentions, but I > have not had any problems with it not finding DHCP and getting back online > by itself after an internet outage. Never seen that before here. > Dan Fink > Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC > IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector > NABCEP PV Associate > d anbob88 at gmail.com > 970-672-4342 > > > > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:24 PM Kirk Herander > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host >> lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. >> But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a >> normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Wed Feb 16 21:08:41 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 21:08:41 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Bootloader mode Message-ID: While trying to update the firmware on a Schneider 600-80 charge controller, it went into bootloader mode and became totally unresponsive. This problem was read from the Gateway on Insight Local. Tech support claimed the CC was bad. However, the CC is working fine. It shows up on the SCP with no error codes. The only remedy that Schneider is offering is to replace the CC if it is under warranty. It likely is not. How can a Schneider device be taken out of bootloader mode (if it really is in that mode)? Could it be an error in the Gateway? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSCF3226.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1454960 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Feb 16 22:31:02 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 21:31:02 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Bootloader mode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <426B9983-D62F-40A1-8F7F-6EE82BB29805@mavericksolar.com> Doesn’t the boot loader start after no code runs? Therefore couldn’t you attempt to upgrade the CC firmware again? That has worked for me in the past. Sometimes I think Xanbus can be delicate and I’ll use the Combox direct to the device being upgraded or use the Setup tool (config tool) direct to the device being updated. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Feb 16, 2022, at 8:09 PM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote: > > While trying to update the firmware on a Schneider 600-80 charge controller, it went into bootloader mode and became totally unresponsive. This problem was read from the Gateway on Insight Local. Tech support claimed the CC was bad. > > However, the CC is working fine. It shows up on the SCP with no error codes. The only remedy that Schneider is offering is to replace the CC if it is under warranty. It likely is not. > > How can a Schneider device be taken out of bootloader mode (if it really is in that mode)? Could it be an error in the Gateway? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSCF3226.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1454960 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cometenergysystems at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 08:24:16 2022 From: cometenergysystems at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 09:24:16 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have had two units in succession fail, network ports stopped working. Other than networking they work perfectly. On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:32 PM Kirk Herander wrote: > Yep, "gateway offline" id the OpticsRE message. I will explore the > auto-reboot, is it programmable through OptisRE? > > I've never gotten a Mate3s to communicate over satellite internet. Just > didn't work, even though the household LAN was fine over it. The customer > had to invest in a Verizon cell modem( ie. jetpack) and I used the SIM card > in a 3rd party modem, that works fine. > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 3:07 PM Dan Fink wrote: > >> Kirk -- Is it connected to OpticsRE, and do you get "Gateway Offline" >> status when this happens? I've had weird offline intervals in the past, and >> many Mate 3s firmware updates ago I set them to auto reboot every 24 hours >> which fixed weird offline intervals. My experience with Mate 3s / OpticsRE >> over HughesNet has been 50/50; works for some sites, not for others. The >> auto reboot has fixed all my similar issues so far as Chris mentions, but I >> have not had any problems with it not finding DHCP and getting back online >> by itself after an internet outage. Never seen that before here. >> Dan Fink >> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC >> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation >> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector >> NABCEP PV Associate >> d anbob88 at gmail.com >> 970-672-4342 >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 12:24 PM Kirk Herander >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host >>> lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. >>> But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a >>> normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>> >>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>> >>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>> >>> *www.vermont.solar* >>> >>> >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Thu Feb 17 08:44:39 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 06:44:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk - Yes, you can set the Mate3s auto-reboot interval remotely from OpticsRE, but I believe if it shows Gateway Offline you have to make a site visit. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 > >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Feb 17 11:17:23 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:17:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Bootloader mode In-Reply-To: <426B9983-D62F-40A1-8F7F-6EE82BB29805@mavericksolar.com> References: <426B9983-D62F-40A1-8F7F-6EE82BB29805@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: <74c25997a35e3f4cf8111af00a689ce8@redwoodalliance.org> Unfortunately no options are provided to do anything, including no option to update the firmware. The Charge controller is completely locked out, cannot be affected in anyway by the Gateway. The config tool will be the next attempt. Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional On 2022-02-16 22:31, Maverick Brown wrote: > Doesn't the boot loader start after no code runs? Therefore couldn't > you attempt to upgrade the CC firmware again? That has worked for me in > the past. Sometimes I think Xanbus can be delicate and I'll use the > Combox direct to the device being upgraded or use the Setup tool > (config tool) direct to the device being updated. > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > * Solar Commander Remote Power > * SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > >> On Feb 16, 2022, at 8:09 PM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org >> wrote: > >> While trying to update the firmware on a Schneider 600-80 charge >> controller, it went into bootloader mode and became totally >> unresponsive. This problem was read from the Gateway on Insight Local. >> Tech support claimed the CC was bad. >> >> However, the CC is working fine. It shows up on the SCP with no error >> codes. The only remedy that Schneider is offering is to replace the CC >> if it is under warranty. It likely is not. >> >> How can a Schneider device be taken out of bootloader mode (if it >> really is in that mode)? Could it be an error in the Gateway? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Drake >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> Athens Electric LLC >> Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 >> CO Master Electrician's License 4526 >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DSCF3226.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 1454960 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Thu Feb 17 12:50:51 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 09:50:51 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] FM80 failures due to arc faults In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <680D363E-660F-49EC-9B67-BDC6870F6D09@me.com> Thanks Jay and William, sorry for the delay in response. Jay, no breakers are tripping. Just that every so often I come to the site to find an FM80 saying 0v on the PV input side. I think your idea to add soft start controls or delay timers to the fans may be a good place to start. Perhaps that way I may be able to correlate certain batches of fans with a failure incident (assuming I have a way to know when the controllers fail since the one time I witnessed was sheer luck). William, the idea of shutting off one string into each combiner/controller seems like a great option as well. Of course 4200 watts STC was well within their old suggested input specs and since this site uses everything that is generated from the sun this would ultimately mean the site will burn more fossil fuels while parts of the array are off. Can’t get something for nothing though right! I have used the Egauge waveform/oscilloscope feature before to investigate a problematic generator but have not used it to observe this particular site in detail yet so thanks for that thought as well. I should have thought of that awhile ago! Data logging the PV side could be an option as well but could be a significant endeavor. Also, since it’s only three modules in series and it happens during the hot/warm summer months there should be plenty of headroom not to exceed the 150vdc limit. A large majority of my off grid sites have 3 x 60 cell modules in series without this sort of failure rate so I don’t expect the failures resulting from excessive DC voltage. The isolation transformer trick seems like a good option especially before committing to re-pulling the ground. Finally, thanks to Lones for reaching out as well. I will report back if I have any discoveries here. Enjoy your day everyone, Nick > On Jan 26, 2022, at 9:37 AM, Jay wrote: > > It’s the gfi breaker that’s tripping right? > > There is another possibility. I’ve seen extremely high loads with weak batteries cause the capacitors in the CC to dump causing the breakers to trip. > > One easy fix is to install more wire between the CC and the battery or a smaller size, within ampacity ratings of course. > > It acts like a choke and the CC can’t dump as fast, it’s worked for me many times in the past. > > Another option would be to install soft start controls on the fans, and /or delay timers so they don’t all turn on at the same time. > > As to the classic not tripping, it’s got a special circuit inside that prevents this dumping of the capacitors. > > Jay > > > >> On Jan 26, 2022, at 10:10 AM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: >> >> Thanks Alan, Mac, Jerry and Maverick. Alan, I like your idea of replacing all the FM80’s with Classics. I have had one Classic loaner recently fail there but to be fair I’ve been using it at random sites for years and it has a 2014 manu date so I’m okay with it’s years of service. Maybe I can find a deal on a half dozen of them from the recent DC Solar auctions. All the PV lands on a designated shunt so even though I’d lose some of the granularity in Opticsre I’d still be able to see the sum of current. I think perhaps all of those Classics from DC Solar don’t have internet connectivity either? >> >> Maverick, yes they are at the end of the 1300’ run. I’ve not gone into his building over there in a long time to check the fans but will do so next time I’m out there. Thanks for the ferrite core suggestion too. Seems like an affordable effort at this point. >> >> Mac, no Tigo’s on this job since it’s an Ironridge SGA ground mount. Yes I’ve been picturing that long run as a huge antenna as well. It now makes me realize that is something else unique about this site is it’s long wire run itself in addition to the lack of ground. Can’t think of any other off grid sites of mine with such a significant run. >> >> Jerry, I’ve been through all the connections but always helps to keep looking for the fine details. I will say getting the #4 into the Classic's terminals is a bit frustrating especially with a conductor that’s been in and out a few times, been wishing that part of their controller would get an upgrade for years. I’ve had to trim off the ends and shorten the conductor every time to get a connection with integrity. Going to have to replace the conductor to the 100 amp GFP if this keeps up. >> >> Thanks for the thoughts. I think the next logical attempt to suppress the spikes will be trying the ferrites as Mac suggested. Hope you all have a great day out there. Off to work, Nick >> >> >>> On Jan 26, 2022, at 4:57 AM, Mac Lewis > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Nick, >>> >>> Do you have any rapid shutdown equipment on the arrays? The only charge controller (Midnite CLassic) that we have ever had that failed with a short on PV Input, had the Tigo Shutdown boxes on them (TS4-AF). I have always been curious if that failure mode was due to the Tigo signal somehow. >>> >>> To me, the consistent failure mode of the short on the PV input is an important clue to someone (not me) as to what is happening. I was always under the impression that the isolation transformers in the inverter did a good job filtering arc faults on the AC side but that 1500' wire run is a huge antenna! >>> >>> Good Luck out there! >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 12:29 AM Nick A Lucchese > wrote: >>> Hello again Wrenches, >>> >>> While the failed controller topic is fresh I want to ask opinions/advice on arc faults. I know quite well that they can be mysterious so not sure I’ll really get anywhere but here goes. This particular off grid system consists of two Radians, 2 GSLC’s, FNDC, a 25.2 KW array and 6 FM80’s. 4.2 KW STC into each controller which I now know is over their new recommended max wattage after they changed the spec sheets on us a couple years ago without renaming it an FM70. The system has been in for over 5 years now but from the beginning I’ve had a large amount of failures with the FM80’s failing and registering a dead short on the PV input side of the controller. Not exclusive to any one of the six arrays and I’ve definitely gone through to torque and tighten all of the connections. I’ve tried other controllers throughout my troubleshooting and concluded it’s arc faults for a few reasons. Mainly, as long as I have a Midnite Classic installed with the other 5 FM80’s it will absorb the arc fault and just go to it’s temporary state of displaying an arc fault and after I reset it everything starts back up and operates normally. Survives the incident without failure unlike the FM80 and at the same time protects all the other FM80’s. When the site goes back to FM80’s exclusively the failures are inevitably more frequent. I’ve also installed a Magnum PT100 for awhile to see if it would fail too but it survived for over a year before I terminated that particular test. >>> >>> Luckily, one of the times I was there when an FM80 failed so I was able to see that it coincided with some fans (obviously on the AC side) that had kicked on when I observed usage on his Egauge (system has Blue Ion 2.0’s and HI's). I have also been able to determine it’s likely some fans because the long durations without failures also coincide with long periods without the fans although failures are still happening sometimes and he says he’s changed up his fans. The Egauge has been a very useful tool for various reasons but unfortunately I can’t pinpoint when the units fail since they often go unnoticed until I am at the site or notice low PV production on Opticsre. I just happen to get lucky the one time I was there to correlate the exact moment with the fans. >>> >>> One major detail that makes this site different is that after my initial install work he had some other yahoos in to pull the feeders to power his other subpanel some 1300’ feet away. Unfortunately they did so without pulling an equipment ground along with the power conductors so the two sides do not share a common ground. This is the most major deviation from any of the other systems I’m responsible for and this is the only site I have frequent high rates of unwarranted controller failures. I’m uncertain if the failures are due to AC ripples/transients from the extremely long run, lack of common ground or perhaps one particular appliance. My preferred solution in the process of elimination is fixing the lack of common ground by re-pulling all the conductors with an EGC but that would not only be expensive but quite difficult as he just informed me the other day that there are no pull boxes in between the two destinations. I wish I could just walk away from any responsibility since their foolish decision not to pull the EGC originally was not a mistake of mine but I really need to help him resolve this since replacing the FM80’s so often is obviously expensive as well as time consuming. Obviously it would be extremely frustrating and defeating if he were to go to all the effort of pulling the new ground and the failures still occur. >>> >>> I thought about replacing the 6 FM80’s with 4 FM100’s but that would require a profound amount of work by the time I change up the array strings and OCPD’s plus I’d have to re-imagine placement due to the physical differences. To avoid nuisance tripping, I already have the Midnite 100 amp GFP assemblies in place and am adding two more Radians with GSLC’s so feasibly would have the accommodations as far as space for OCPD’s are concerned. We do plan on expanding his arrays soon so at some point I will have to address this known snag of mixing FM80’s and 100’s in the same system as recently discussed on the list. Thinking I might try this mix approach on my own house for awhile but not rushing to deploy at any client sites. >>> >>> Any ideas? Suck it up and have him pull a ground 1300’ at today’s copper prices? I’ve got Midnite SPD’s on all the arrays as well as the AC side but perhaps there’s some other sort of additional surge suppressor or something I can install to suppress arc faults originating on the AC side? WWWMD (what would William Miller do)? Only half joking here, I often find myself asking that when I encounter some sort of unusual solution required to balance something out of the ordinary and William’s procedures have impressed me for decades. No offense to the rest of you pro’s though, his meticulous documentation and notes just appear levels beyond (especially speaking for myself)! >>> >>> Off to work, enjoy your day, Nick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> Mac Lewis >>> >>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Thu Feb 17 13:28:10 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 10:28:10 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello again, Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel looks perfectly normal” but it’s difficult for me to think of any of my sites that don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up from time to time requiring a quick disconnect and reconnect of the Cat5 cables. Some sites do seem more frequent than others but overall I’ve just come to accept this and be sure to provide my clients with a tutorial of how to fix when I walk them through the initial commissioning instruction. I point out both places to unplug and highlight the greater accessibility of the 1st Mate port in the Hub versus on the back of the Mate often attached to the wall. Of course nobody remembers when it happens six months down the line either. I can also tell how often my client actually pays attention since it’s not uncommon to show up at a site for something else and discover a frozen Mate3-s. In general, I’ve just come to expect this and since it’s always fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t see it as being a major issue for the majority of my customers. As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No easy way around it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable than the older Blue Ion 2.0 monitoring though. Next time you speak with your favorite battery or inverter manufacturer be sure to express your dislike of this newer trend which does away with integrated hardware for monitoring. I still have a lot of “old timers” that can care less to have their monitoring online and although it makes my life easier the manufacturers need to accept that there is a large part of the off grid world that does not have reliable internet nor an age demographic that cares to navigate this new world of connectivity. There is no substitute for on site monitoring hardware that displays battery SOC. If an inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our favorite $20k batteries? Enjoy your day, Nick > On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? > > -- > Kirk Herander /  <>kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Feb 17 13:49:51 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 11:49:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> My Mat3 goes blank on a semi regular basis, I have not notated the frequency. Perhaps someone from Outback who is on the list would care to comment? Anyone from OutBack on this? Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Nick A Lucchese Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:28 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups Hello again, Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel looks perfectly normal” but it’s difficult for me to think of any of my sites that don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up from time to time requiring a quick disconnect and reconnect of the Cat5 cables. Some sites do seem more frequent than others but overall I’ve just come to accept this and be sure to provide my clients with a tutorial of how to fix when I walk them through the initial commissioning instruction. I point out both places to unplug and highlight the greater accessibility of the 1st Mate port in the Hub versus on the back of the Mate often attached to the wall. Of course nobody remembers when it happens six months down the line either. I can also tell how often my client actually pays attention since it’s not uncommon to show up at a site for something else and discover a frozen Mate3-s. In general, I’ve just come to expect this and since it’s always fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t see it as being a major issue for the majority of my customers. As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No easy way around it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable than the older Blue Ion 2.0 monitoring though. Next time you speak with your favorite battery or inverter manufacturer be sure to express your dislike of this newer trend which does away with integrated hardware for monitoring. I still have a lot of “old timers” that can care less to have their monitoring online and although it makes my life easier the manufacturers need to accept that there is a large part of the off grid world that does not have reliable internet nor an age demographic that cares to navigate this new world of connectivity. There is no substitute for on site monitoring hardware that displays battery SOC. If an inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our favorite $20k batteries? Enjoy your day, Nick On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander > wrote: Hello all, I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.parrish at calsolareng.com Thu Feb 17 16:42:48 2022 From: peter.parrish at calsolareng.com (petertor@pobox.com) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 13:42:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Burned Breakers! Need Help Message-ID: <658387224.2097471.1645134168213@email.ionos.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich at solartechvt.com Thu Feb 17 18:49:55 2022 From: rich at solartechvt.com (Rich) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 16:49:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> References: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: We program Auto Reboot for a 12 hour interval on all Mate3s when using satellite internet and it seems to keep us online “most of the time”. When it does go offline we just check back once the next auto reboot has occurred. Outback admits auto reboot is a less than ideal solution but its what engineering came up with for the problem. Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 17, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: > >  > My Mat3 goes blank on a semi regular basis, I have not notated the frequency. > > Perhaps someone from Outback who is on the list would care to comment? Anyone from OutBack on this? > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Nick A Lucchese > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:28 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups > > Hello again, > > Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel looks perfectly normal” but it’s difficult for me to think of any of my sites that don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up from time to time requiring a quick disconnect and reconnect of the Cat5 cables. Some sites do seem more frequent than others but overall I’ve just come to accept this and be sure to provide my clients with a tutorial of how to fix when I walk them through the initial commissioning instruction. I point out both places to unplug and highlight the greater accessibility of the 1st Mate port in the Hub versus on the back of the Mate often attached to the wall. Of course nobody remembers when it happens six months down the line either. I can also tell how often my client actually pays attention since it’s not uncommon to show up at a site for something else and discover a frozen Mate3-s. In general, I’ve just come to expect this and since it’s always fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t see it as being a major issue for the majority of my customers. > > As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No easy way around it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable than the older Blue Ion 2.0 monitoring though. Next time you speak with your favorite battery or inverter manufacturer be sure to express your dislike of this newer trend which does away with integrated hardware for monitoring. I still have a lot of “old timers” that can care less to have their monitoring online and although it makes my life easier the manufacturers need to accept that there is a large part of the off grid world that does not have reliable internet nor an age demographic that cares to navigate this new world of connectivity. There is no substitute for on site monitoring hardware that displays battery SOC. If an inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our favorite $20k batteries? > > Enjoy your day, Nick > > > > On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? > > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Fri Feb 18 08:10:04 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 08:10:04 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> References: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: We are having our own issues with one project that we just converted from a Mate2 that failed to a Mate3S. The charge controller settings contain none of the data that we have programmed in. We have made 4 trips to the site on the recommendation of Outback to try the sometimes really odd ideas on how to troubleshoot from them. We initially went to their forum to get better technical support, and they directed us to submit a "trouble ticket" via their website, which sent us on this goose chase.  My own system is very similar to this customers and my Mate3S displays properly.  Long story short, we have not been able to get the display of this part of the device to work properly.  We have sent 20 pictures to Outback to show this and the person at the other end seems unable to grasp that this is the issue. Please remove this picture if you respond to save file space. On 2/17/2022 1:49 PM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > My Mat3 goes blank on a semi regular basis, I have not notated the > frequency. > > Perhaps someone from Outback who is on the list would care to comment? > Anyone from OutBack on this? > > Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com* > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > > _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" ___ > > *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Nick A Lucchese > *Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:28 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups > > Hello again, > > Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel > looks perfectly normal”  but it’s difficult for me to think of any of > my sites that don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up from time to > time requiring a quick disconnect and reconnect of the Cat5 cables. > Some sites do seem more frequent than others but overall I’ve just > come to accept this and be sure to provide my clients with a tutorial > of how to fix when I walk them through the initial commissioning > instruction. I point out both places to unplug and highlight the > greater accessibility of the 1st Mate port in the Hub versus on the > back of the Mate often attached to the wall.  Of course nobody > remembers when it happens six months down the line either. I can also > tell how often my client actually pays attention since it’s not > uncommon to show up at a site for something else and discover a frozen > Mate3-s. In general, I’ve just come to expect this and since it’s > always fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t see it as being a > major issue for the majority of my customers. > > As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No easy > way around it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable than the > older Blue Ion 2.0 monitoring though. Next time you speak with your > favorite battery or inverter manufacturer be sure to express your > dislike of this newer trend which does away with integrated hardware > for monitoring. I still have a lot of “old timers” that can care less > to have their monitoring online and although it makes my life easier > the manufacturers need to accept that there is a large part of the off > grid world that does not have reliable internet nor an age demographic > that cares to navigate this new world of connectivity. There is no > substitute for on site monitoring hardware that displays battery SOC. > If an inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our favorite $20k > batteries? > > Enjoy your day, Nick > > > > On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander > wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the > host lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks > perfectly normal. But they can only be restored by unplugging the > Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE  > is restored. Ideas??? > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar* > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3kcG8BLmCh01qIBM.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 382046 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 18 08:15:37 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 06:15:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, What type of charge controller is it? Older charge controllers seem to have issues interacting with the Mate 3s perfectly. Oddly, many times it will report the data OK to OpticsRE. Which Hub do you have? Mate 3s needs to be paired to a Hub 10.3. Also, you may try changing ports in the Hub and of course cables. Good luck On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 6:10 AM Christopher Warfel < cwarfel at entech-engineering.com> wrote: > We are having our own issues with one project that we just converted from > a Mate2 that failed to a Mate3S. The charge controller settings contain > none of the data that we have programmed in. We have made 4 trips to the > site on the recommendation of Outback to try the sometimes really odd ideas > on how to troubleshoot from them. We initially went to their forum to get > better technical support, and they directed us to submit a "trouble ticket" > via their website, which sent us on this goose chase. My own system is > very similar to this customers and my Mate3S displays properly. Long story > short, we have not been able to get the display of this part of the device > to work properly. We have sent 20 pictures to Outback to show this and the > person at the other end seems unable to grasp that this is the issue. > > Please remove this picture if you respond to save file space. > > > > On 2/17/2022 1:49 PM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > My Mat3 goes blank on a semi regular basis, I have not notated the > frequency. > > > > Perhaps someone from Outback who is on the list would care to comment? > Anyone from OutBack on this? > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Nick A Lucchese > *Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:28 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups > > > > Hello again, > > > > Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel looks > perfectly normal” but it’s difficult for me to think of any of my sites > that don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up from time to time requiring a > quick disconnect and reconnect of the Cat5 cables. Some sites do seem more > frequent than others but overall I’ve just come to accept this and be sure > to provide my clients with a tutorial of how to fix when I walk them > through the initial commissioning instruction. I point out both places to > unplug and highlight the greater accessibility of the 1st Mate port in the > Hub versus on the back of the Mate often attached to the wall. Of course > nobody remembers when it happens six months down the line either. I can > also tell how often my client actually pays attention since it’s not > uncommon to show up at a site for something else and discover a frozen > Mate3-s. In general, I’ve just come to expect this and since it’s always > fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t see it as being a major issue for > the majority of my customers. > > > > As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No easy way > around it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable than the older Blue > Ion 2.0 monitoring though. Next time you speak with your favorite battery > or inverter manufacturer be sure to express your dislike of this newer > trend which does away with integrated hardware for monitoring. I still have > a lot of “old timers” that can care less to have their monitoring online > and although it makes my life easier the manufacturers need to accept that > there is a large part of the off grid world that does not have reliable > internet nor an age demographic that cares to navigate this new world of > connectivity. There is no substitute for on site monitoring hardware that > displays battery SOC. If an inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our > favorite $20k batteries? > > > > Enjoy your day, Nick > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to the host > lately. Totally different sites. The front panel looks perfectly normal. > But they can only be restored by unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a > normal reboot will occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Fri Feb 18 08:35:06 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 08:35:06 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Hi, This system is not tied into Optics. Merchant Marine retiree and he did not see the value in that. If it ran on steam, he might have gone for it. I will check the hub. It is the original hub (11 years old).  I have a system of the same vintage (w/r to Hub) and it is displaying correctly. I'll bring a bunch of spare cables and see if that is the issue.  Thank you, Chris On 2/18/2022 8:15 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: > Hi Chris, > > What type of charge controller is it?  Older charge controllers seem > to have issues interacting with the Mate 3s perfectly.  Oddly, many > times it will report the data OK to OpticsRE.  Which Hub do you have?  > Mate 3s needs to be paired to a Hub 10.3.  Also, you may try changing > ports in the Hub and of course cables. > > Good luck > > > > On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 6:10 AM Christopher Warfel > wrote: > > We are having our own issues with one project that we just > converted from a Mate2 that failed to a Mate3S. The charge > controller settings contain none of the data that we have > programmed in. We have made 4 trips to the site on the > recommendation of Outback to try the sometimes really odd ideas on > how to troubleshoot from them. We initially went to their forum to > get better technical support, and they directed us to submit a > "trouble ticket" via their website, which sent us on this goose > chase.  My own system is very similar to this customers and my > Mate3S displays properly.  Long story short, we have not been able > to get the display of this part of the device to work properly.  > We have sent 20 pictures to Outback to show this and the person at > the other end seems unable to grasp that this is the issue. > > Please remove this picture if you respond to save file space. > > > > On 2/17/2022 1:49 PM, Dana Orzel wrote: >> >> My Mat3 goes blank on a semi regular basis, I have not notated >> the frequency. >> >> Perhaps someone from Outback who is on the list would care to >> comment? Anyone from OutBack on this? >> >> Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com* >> >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374 >> >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> >> >> _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" ___ >> >> *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches >> *On Behalf Of >> *Nick A Lucchese >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 17, 2022 11:28 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups >> >> Hello again, >> >> Perhaps it’s something different since you’re saying “front panel >> looks perfectly normal”  but it’s difficult for me to think of >> any of my sites that don’t experience the Mate3-s freezing up >> from time to time requiring a quick disconnect and reconnect of >> the Cat5 cables. Some sites do seem more frequent than others but >> overall I’ve just come to accept this and be sure to provide my >> clients with a tutorial of how to fix when I walk them through >> the initial commissioning instruction. I point out both places to >> unplug and highlight the greater accessibility of the 1st Mate >> port in the Hub versus on the back of the Mate often attached to >> the wall.  Of course nobody remembers when it happens six months >> down the line either. I can also tell how often my client >> actually pays attention since it’s not uncommon to show up at a >> site for something else and discover a frozen Mate3-s. In >> general, I’ve just come to expect this and since it’s always >> fixed with a couple minute effort I don’t see it as being a major >> issue for the majority of my customers. >> >> As far as Hughesnet goes I also have issues at those sites. No >> easy way around it. Seems like Opticsre is slightly more stable >> than the older Blue Ion 2.0 monitoring though. Next time you >> speak with your favorite battery or inverter manufacturer be sure >> to express your dislike of this newer trend which does away with >> integrated hardware for monitoring. I still have a lot of “old >> timers” that can care less to have their monitoring online and >> although it makes my life easier the manufacturers need to accept >> that there is a large part of the off grid world that does not >> have reliable internet nor an age demographic that cares to >> navigate this new world of connectivity. There is no substitute >> for on site monitoring hardware that displays battery SOC. If an >> inexpensive Goal Zero can do it why can’t our favorite $20k >> batteries? >> >> Enjoy your day, Nick >> >> >> >> On Feb 16, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Kirk Herander >> wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> I've had several Mates go offline (refuse to send data) to >> the host lately. Totally different sites. The front panel >> looks perfectly normal. But they can only be restored by >> unplugging the Lan and Hub cables, then a normal reboot will >> occur and OpticsRE is restored. Ideas??? >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar* >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >> work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- >                             Christopher Warfel >      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > * --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Fri Feb 18 08:51:37 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 06:51:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Chris; An inexpensive Klein LAN cable tester became a standard part of my tool kit when the Mate3 and other monitoring systems came out. I now test all Cat6 cables from all manufacturers before installing them, even if they are new in the sealed bag. I've often ended up as a home networking IT consultant for my solar energy customers, just to get their PV system monitoring up and running! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085LPN71C/ Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 6:35 AM Christopher Warfel < cwarfel at entech-engineering.com> wrote: > Hi, This system is not tied into Optics. Merchant Marine retiree and he > did not see the value in that. If it ran on steam, he might have gone for > it. > > I will check the hub. It is the original hub (11 years old). I have a > system of the same vintage (w/r to Hub) and it is displaying correctly. > I'll bring a bunch of spare cables and see if that is the issue. Thank > you, Chris > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Fri Feb 18 08:50:30 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 08:50:30 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3s hangups In-Reply-To: References: <003001d8242f$25d2bb60$71783220$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri Feb 18 09:52:50 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 09:52:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: Schneider Bootloader mode In-Reply-To: References: <426B9983-D62F-40A1-8F7F-6EE82BB29805@mavericksolar.com> <74c25997a35e3f4cf8111af00a689ce8@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Hi Dave, Thanks for your help. All options seem to be exhausted with Schneider tech support. I haven't tried the SCP advanced menu to restore defaults. After I enter that setting should I shut down all DC inputs for 5 minutes, or is that automatic? Daniel, at tech support, knows of the situation. His is only comment was "interesting." Is there any chance the problem is in the Gateway itself? Do you think it is possible that power-cycling it again would clear any problems with it. The Gateway will not reset to its factory defaults. I tried that several times with tech support, and all agreed that it didn't work. It is good to hear that the config tool should fix it. Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-02-17 11:51, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote: > Did you try SCP mppt-80 advance settings, enter, scroll all the way > down to restore defaults? Assume you did a complete power down of mppt > for > 5 minutes with no dc in/out. > > weird to me that it shows on SCP and not in gateway. The config tool > should fix this. Please let me know off list. I am not on the wrench > list much anymore. > You might try tech support again. Do they know the cc works? > Good Luck > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > On 2022-02-17 8:17 am, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org wrote: > Unfortunately no options are provided to do anything, including no > option to update the firmware. The Charge controller is completely > locked out, cannot be affected in anyway by the Gateway. > > The config tool will be the next attempt. > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 > CO Master Electrician's License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > On 2022-02-16 22:31, Maverick Brown wrote: > > Doesn't the boot loader start after no code runs? Therefore couldn't > you attempt to upgrade the CC firmware again? That has worked for me in > the past. Sometimes I think Xanbus can be delicate and I'll use the > Combox direct to the device being upgraded or use the Setup tool > (config tool) direct to the device being updated. > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > * Solar Commander Remote Power > * SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > On Feb 16, 2022, at 8:09 PM, drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org > wrote: > While trying to update the firmware on a Schneider 600-80 charge > controller, it went into bootloader mode and became totally > unresponsive. This problem was read from the Gateway on Insight Local. > Tech support claimed the CC was bad. > > However, the CC is working fine. It shows up on the SCP with no error > codes. The only remedy that Schneider is offering is to replace the CC > if it is under warranty. It likely is not. > > How can a Schneider device be taken out of bootloader mode (if it > really is in that mode)? Could it be an error in the Gateway? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 > CO Master Electrician's License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 10:02:26 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 08:02:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use Message-ID: Hi all the lithium experts. Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup mode. Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing for GTBB, non cycling. Thanks Jay From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Feb 23 10:46:42 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:46:42 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: anecdotal, but Blue Planet told me their LFP battery can sit uninstalled in the box for several years with minimal self-discharge and no problems when put into service. On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 10:36 AM Jay wrote: > Hi all the lithium experts. > > Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup > mode. > Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing > for GTBB, non cycling. > > Thanks > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry at starlightsolar.com Wed Feb 23 10:53:14 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (larrycrutcher) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 08:53:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jay We have some government customers using LiFeBlue Battery as a UPS for radio systems. Battery and radios are connected to a constant 14.2 Volt power supply. The battery only discharges if the utility power goes off and recharges after restoration. Operating for 3+ years. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Feb 23, 2022, at 8:02 AM, Jay wrote: Hi all the lithium experts. Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup mode. Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing for GTBB, non cycling. Thanks Jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danny at sesre.com Wed Feb 23 11:16:08 2022 From: danny at sesre.com (Daniel Young) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 16:16:08 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The main thing you can do when non-cycling is to set the charge voltage a little lower than you normally would. Check the manufacturer for the recommended full charge voltage (usually 3.6V/cell) that's 57.6V for a 48V pack. I set my absorb voltage to 57V even to begin with. And float is closer to 3.5V/cell or 56V. That constitutes roughly 90% capacity (check your battery manufacturer spec, it can vary by brand). Ageing of LFP tends to accelerate at both higher temperatures and higher charge voltages. There are some research papers out there testing this in various ways for various applications, but the conclusions are usually the same. Keep the lithium from getting too hot (I say stay below 30-35C when possible) and do not charge them to 100% unless you really need the capacity. So my common sense tells me to set my absorb and float voltages such that the LFP batteries are not regularly going above 90% SOC in backup applications. Another factor to account for is the BMS's cell balancing feature, you do want the float voltage set high enough that the BMS does get triggered to balance cells (many BMS's do not balance until the cells are near full, as this is where imbalances really start to show up, and it saves energy by not bleeding current off the cells constantly). For example, if the battery BMS starts balancing when cells are above 3.52V (56.32V for 48V packs), then the float voltage needs to be just above this (56.4-56.5) that way the BMS has the ability to balance cells regularly. The manufacturer would be the source for the cell balancing voltage threshold. If float was set to 55V for example, the cells could get relatively out of balance and the BMS would do little to stop it, only bleeding off current when a cell gets particularly out of balance with a higher voltage than its peers. Always ask the manufacturer for advice on this first of course. -- Danny Young Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jay Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:02 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use Hi all the lithium experts. Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup mode. Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing for GTBB, non cycling. Thanks Jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 11:21:02 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 08:21:02 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well before l say anything, how long? I have locked out LFP for 180 plus days and they held the charge, now if the BMS is connected the battery will draw down. Now l can say that once a LFP that l use is full its fu and 99% bypass the battery. Now also different brands tend to act somewhat different so it may depend on BMS, duration and brand. Jerry On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 7:36 AM Jay wrote: > Hi all the lithium experts. > > Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup > mode. > Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing > for GTBB, non cycling. > > Thanks > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 11:29:26 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 09:29:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7678F1FD-489A-4F94-AF1A-1BE414462229@gmail.com> Hi Jerry This is for a generic GTBB with no battery sell back. So basically for as many years as possible. Jay > On Feb 23, 2022, at 9:21 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > >  > Well before l say anything, how long? I have locked out LFP for 180 plus days and they held the charge, now if the BMS is connected the battery will draw down. Now l can say that once a LFP that l use is full its fu and 99% bypass the battery. Now also different brands tend to act somewhat different so it may depend on BMS, duration and brand. > Jerry > >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 7:36 AM Jay wrote: >> Hi all the lithium experts. >> >> Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup mode. >> Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing for GTBB, non cycling. >> >> Thanks >> >> Jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Wed Feb 23 15:19:33 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 10:19:33 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Message-ID: Aloha, I’m in search of SolarEdge Optimizers. If any of you have any leads on a source, please contact me off list. Mahalo, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Feb 23 23:57:27 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 20:57:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: <7678F1FD-489A-4F94-AF1A-1BE414462229@gmail.com> References: <7678F1FD-489A-4F94-AF1A-1BE414462229@gmail.com> Message-ID: Look at Blue planet, they have a BMS and l do not know what draw it has. Can you lock out the battery with a contactor to reactivate the system Jerry Jerry On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 10:56 AM Jay wrote: > Hi Jerry > > This is for a generic GTBB with no battery sell back. So basically for as > many years as possible. > > Jay > > > > On Feb 23, 2022, at 9:21 AM, Jerry Shafer > wrote: > >  > Well before l say anything, how long? I have locked out LFP for 180 plus > days and they held the charge, now if the BMS is connected the battery will > draw down. Now l can say that once a LFP that l use is full its fu and 99% > bypass the battery. Now also different brands tend to act somewhat > different so it may depend on BMS, duration and brand. > Jerry > > On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 7:36 AM Jay wrote: > >> Hi all the lithium experts. >> >> Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup >> mode. >> Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing >> for GTBB, non cycling. >> >> Thanks >> >> Jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 00:10:25 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 23:10:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jay I am not sure what non-cycling use is, I have mentioned before in my experience where a cell in the string can become lower in charge and the string loses capacity in discharge because the BMS shuts off the complete battery when the troubled cell reaches low voltage cut out. To prevent this, a string should go tho top balance. This is of course true for both cycling and little cycling. On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:36 AM Jay wrote: > Hi all the lithium experts. > > Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup > mode. > Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing > for GTBB, non cycling. > > Thanks > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Thu Feb 24 00:58:03 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 19:58:03 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries Message-ID: Aloha all, With LG exiting the solar PV space I'm wondering if their LG Chem affiliate is getting out of the residential battery storage space (their RESU line) as well. Anyone know anything about this? Mahalo, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Thu Feb 24 07:31:49 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 05:31:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <181FA51F-652A-4539-ADE7-22C7B5B33B1A@solarenergy.org> Only some general specifics that they’ve announced: “LG plans to focus on storage systems and energy management in the future, as well as other yet-to-be-announced advancements.” And that they’ll “continue to service owners of LG modules for a period of time.” Brian > On Feb 23, 2022, at 10:58 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: > >  > Aloha all, > With LG exiting the solar PV space I'm wondering > if their LG Chem affiliate is getting out of the residential battery storage space (their RESU line) as well. > Anyone know anything about this? > Mahalo, > marco > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 09:51:19 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 06:51:19 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They appear to already have considering you can not thier product, that plus the warranty issues. On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 9:58 PM Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: > Aloha all, > With LG exiting the solar PV space I'm wondering > if their LG Chem affiliate is getting out of the residential battery > storage space (their RESU line) as well. > Anyone know anything about this? > Mahalo, > marco > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 18:09:35 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 16:09:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <06F1BC90-788B-402C-8574-827DF79B7698@gmail.com> HI All, Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. thanks jay From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 22:47:59 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 20:47:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: <06F1BC90-788B-402C-8574-827DF79B7698@gmail.com> References: <06F1BC90-788B-402C-8574-827DF79B7698@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, Have you ruled out a problem with the float switch/wiring? On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:13 PM jay wrote: > HI All, > > Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. > > The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) > > I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty > pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. > > thanks > > jay > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Feb 24 23:06:10 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 21:06:10 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> Yes. And if that light is on it’s supposed to stop pumping. Even if the float was bad or maybe the wires were bad, if the cu200 is seeing a full tank signal it’s supposed to shut off the pump. And it’s not. I’ve just never seen this failure mode before. Jay > On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:48 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: > >  > Hi Jay, > > Have you ruled out a problem with the float switch/wiring? > >> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:13 PM jay wrote: >> HI All, >> >> Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. >> >> The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) >> >> I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. >> >> thanks >> >> jay >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart at besolar.bm Fri Feb 25 10:21:43 2022 From: stuart at besolar.bm (Stuart Kriendler) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 11:21:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > We have had two LG Chem battery systems affected by the recall. > It is now 3 months that one client has been without battery back up and > ETA on RMA replacement is still weeks away. > The vendor says approximately 10% of LG units are affected by the recall, > that's a big loss. > Funnily I was always worried about LMC and these were the only two LMC > systems we installed, both needing recalls, complete loss. > The word is that there will be more LMC recalls in general, Tesla possibly. > > We are happy with our LiFe solutions so far, and reckon Lead still has > another few years at least as a sensible and trusted stationary solution > for DC coupled systems until costs change. > > Good luck to everyone with LG product, we won't be speccing anything LG > for the foreseeable future! Their modules were definitely quality, be > interesting to see who buys the R&D/IP. > -- *Stuart Kriendler | Managing Director * 48 St. Johns Road, Pembroke, HM 07, Bermuda C: 1.441.599.2105 <(441)%20599-2105> | O: 1.441.279.5907 <(441)%20279-5907> | www.BEsolar.bm [image: BE Solar.bm] *OUR VISION: An efficient Bermuda powered by affordable renewable energy. * *OUR MISSION: To provide the highest quality energy solutions accessible to all. * The information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly private and confidential and is intended solely for the i ndividual(s) or entity named above in the To and Copy fields. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify us immediately. If you are not an intended recipient, please be advised that any use, including viewing, printing, disseminating, distributing, copying and re-transmitting of the information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2017-12-20 at 11.46.59 AM.png Type: image/png Size: 30112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Feb 25 10:28:23 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:28:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have one RESU bank failure (actually not on any of the recall lists). LG tells me they will send a replacement, but have no idea when, due to computer chip shortage. On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 10:22 AM Stuart Kriendler wrote: > We have had two LG Chem battery systems affected by the recall. >> It is now 3 months that one client has been without battery back up and >> ETA on RMA replacement is still weeks away. >> The vendor says approximately 10% of LG units are affected by the recall, >> that's a big loss. >> Funnily I was always worried about LMC and these were the only two LMC >> systems we installed, both needing recalls, complete loss. >> The word is that there will be more LMC recalls in general, Tesla >> possibly. >> >> We are happy with our LiFe solutions so far, and reckon Lead still has >> another few years at least as a sensible and trusted stationary solution >> for DC coupled systems until costs change. >> >> Good luck to everyone with LG product, we won't be speccing anything LG >> for the foreseeable future! Their modules were definitely quality, be >> interesting to see who buys the R&D/IP. >> > > -- > *Stuart Kriendler | Managing Director * > > 48 St. Johns Road, Pembroke, HM 07, Bermuda > > C: 1.441.599.2105 <(441)%20599-2105> | O: > 1.441.279.5907 <(441)%20279-5907> | www.BEsolar.bm > > > [image: BE Solar.bm] > > *OUR VISION: An efficient Bermuda powered by affordable renewable energy. * > *OUR MISSION: To provide the highest quality energy solutions accessible > to all. * > > The information contained in this transmission including any and all > attached files is strictly private and confidential and is intended solely > for the > i > ndividual(s) or entity named above in the To and Copy fields. If you > received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer > system and notify us immediately. If you are not an intended recipient, > please be advised that any use, including viewing, printing, disseminating, > distributing, copying and re-transmitting of the information contained in > this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly > prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2017-12-20 at 11.46.59 AM.png Type: image/png Size: 30112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 10:33:53 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 07:33:53 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> References: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay, As I remember, that is the classic failure mode. We used to see it now and then, more often than we liked. It's why I used to recommend always getting the extended warranty. And, it can be either the CU200 or the pump itself. It might also be a corroded connection between the two. Brad On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 8:12 PM Jay wrote: > Yes. > And if that light is on it’s supposed to stop pumping. Even if the float > was bad or maybe the wires were bad, if the cu200 is seeing a full tank > signal it’s supposed to shut off the pump. > And it’s not. > > I’ve just never seen this failure mode before. > > Jay > > > > On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:48 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: > >  > Hi Jay, > > Have you ruled out a problem with the float switch/wiring? > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:13 PM jay wrote: > >> HI All, >> >> Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. >> >> The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) >> >> I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty >> pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. >> >> thanks >> >> jay >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 10:48:44 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 08:48:44 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: References: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, It may be cheaper to try to use an interrupt relay to shut off the pump. Tricky though for solar direct like these. As far as I can tell, Grundfos tech support doesn't exist. On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 8:34 AM Bradley Bassett wrote: > Jay, > > As I remember, that is the classic failure mode. We used to see it now and > then, more often than we liked. It's why I used to recommend always getting > the extended warranty. And, it can be either the CU200 or the pump itself. > It might also be a corroded connection between the two. > Brad > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 8:12 PM Jay wrote: > >> Yes. >> And if that light is on it’s supposed to stop pumping. Even if the float >> was bad or maybe the wires were bad, if the cu200 is seeing a full tank >> signal it’s supposed to shut off the pump. >> And it’s not. >> >> I’ve just never seen this failure mode before. >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:48 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: >> >>  >> Hi Jay, >> >> Have you ruled out a problem with the float switch/wiring? >> >> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:13 PM jay wrote: >> >>> HI All, >>> >>> Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. >>> >>> The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) >>> >>> I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty >>> pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. >>> >>> thanks >>> >>> jay >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rekindaguy at yahoo.com Fri Feb 25 11:21:27 2022 From: rekindaguy at yahoo.com (Bob-O) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 08:21:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> References: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5E8DB466-229C-483A-AD86-423E0116FE60@yahoo.com> Jay, I agree it’s probably a controller failure but double check your float wiring, especially if it’s been in service for awhile. The current required to activate that circuit is minuscule. A little corrosion or a loose connection can make that controller do funny things. Bob-O On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:12 PM, Jay wrote:  Yes. And if that light is on it’s supposed to stop pumping. Even if the float was bad or maybe the wires were bad, if the cu200 is seeing a full tank signal it’s supposed to shut off the pump. And it’s not. I’ve just never seen this failure mode before. Jay > On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:48 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: > >  > Hi Jay, > > Have you ruled out a problem with the float switch/wiring? > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:13 PM jay wrote: >> HI All, >> >> Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. >> >> The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) >> >> I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. >> >> thanks >> >> jay >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com Fri Feb 25 15:17:38 2022 From: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com (Nick Soleil) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 20:17:38 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: <5E8DB466-229C-483A-AD86-423E0116FE60@yahoo.com> References: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> <5E8DB466-229C-483A-AD86-423E0116FE60@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, Is it a long wire length? I had a similar issue with a Aquavar Solo2 pump controller recently where the float switch was not turning the pump off. The wire length from the float switch to the pump controller was over 300ft and ran underneath an electric line. I believe that a small (2V) was being induced into the control wiring and that 2V signal appeard as a closed circuit to the pump controller. I used the float switch to control an external contactor. The external contactor switched a short length of wire on the pump controller's dry contactor and that resolved the issue. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Bob-O Sent: Friday, February 25, 2022 8:21 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Jay, I agree it’s probably a controller failure but double check your float wiring, especially if it’s been in service for awhile. The current required to activate that circuit is minuscule. A little corrosion or a loose connection can make that controller do funny things. Bob-O On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:12 PM, Jay wrote:  Yes. And if that light is on it’s supposed to stop pumping. Even if the float was bad or maybe the wires were bad, if the cu200 is seeing a full tank signal it’s supposed to shut off the pump. And it’s not. I’ve just never seen this failure mode before. Jay On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:48 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:  Hi Jay, Have you ruled out a problem with the float switch/wiring? On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:13 PM jay > wrote: HI All, Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. thanks jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Fri Feb 25 17:53:56 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 14:53:56 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? In-Reply-To: References: <28376C15-081B-4BD0-836A-832A375111EA@gmail.com> <5E8DB466-229C-483A-AD86-423E0116FE60@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F248A60-F0C8-4189-97EC-F024BC52BD65@gmail.com> I have about 1200 ft from float switches, two in parallel, to the CU200 and another 200 ft to the pump without any issues. If there is bad connection it could be a problem though. Brad Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 25, 2022, at 12:17 PM, Nick Soleil wrote: > > Hi Jay, > > Is it a long wire length? I had a similar issue with a Aquavar Solo2 pump controller recently where the float switch was not turning the pump off. The wire length from the float switch to the pump controller was over 300ft and ran underneath an electric line. I believe that a small (2V) was being induced into the control wiring and that 2V signal appeard as a closed circuit to the pump controller. I used the float switch to control an external contactor. The external contactor switched a short length of wire on the pump controller's dry contactor and that resolved the issue. > > Cordially, > Nick Soleil > Enphase Energy > Senior Product Manager > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > (707) 321-2937 // cell > Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > > From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Bob-O > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2022 8:21 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grundfos cu200 failure? > > EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. > > > > > Jay, I agree it’s probably a controller failure but double check your float wiring, especially if it’s been in service for awhile. The current required to activate that circuit is minuscule. A little corrosion or a loose connection can make that controller do funny things. > > Bob-O > > On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:12 PM, Jay wrote: > >  > Yes. > And if that light is on it’s supposed to stop pumping. Even if the float was bad or maybe the wires were bad, if the cu200 is seeing a full tank signal it’s supposed to shut off the pump. > And it’s not. > > I’ve just never seen this failure mode before. > > Jay > > > >> On Feb 24, 2022, at 8:48 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: >> >>  >> Hi Jay, >> >> Have you ruled out a problem with the float switch/wiring? >> >> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:13 PM jay wrote: >> HI All, >> >> Has anyone seen this failure mode on a Grundfos CU200. >> >> The tank full light is on and it keeps pumping ( green arrows working) >> >> I suspect the CU200 just needs to be replaced, but as they are pretty pricy I’d thought I’d ask around first. >> >> thanks >> >> jay >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sat Feb 26 12:16:50 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 09:16:50 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? Message-ID: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> Wrenches, A client of mine visited his remote cabin a few days ago to check in on things. He has a Radian 8048A/FX80 w/ 2kw PV. When he shutters the place for the winter he turns the inverter off, sets AGS to OFF, and only the FX80 is left on. When he tried to turn the inverter on at the Mate 3S, it would not activate. Charger light is on and the Mate is showing charging happening. I instructed him to power cycle, which he did a few times, then plug and unplug the Mate cable at both the Mate and Hub….Nada. Any suggestions before I make a long expensive trek out there to do much the same? I do have extra cables, but I don’t keep an inventory of spare Outback parts as we no longer install their equipment. Thanks, Michael Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Sat Feb 26 14:14:57 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 13:14:57 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? In-Reply-To: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> References: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> Message-ID: Have him take the cover off of the inverter and plug the Matt directly into the inverter. Boot up. Listen for fans to spins up. Have him take a photo of the LED clusters located on the two visible boards of the inverter brains. Spare-204 is the board stack and those less tell it’s operational status. You can bring a Spare board set and likely get it back up and running. That alone make the Radian on of the best inverters ever made, the HUB concept aside. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Feb 26, 2022, at 11:17 AM, Michael Morningstar wrote: > > Wrenches, > > A client of mine visited his remote cabin a few days ago to check in on things. He has a Radian 8048A/FX80 w/ 2kw PV. When he shutters the place for the winter he turns the inverter off, sets AGS to OFF, and only the FX80 is left on. When he tried to turn the inverter on at the Mate 3S, it would not activate. Charger light is on and the Mate is showing charging happening. I instructed him to power cycle, which he did a few times, then plug and unplug the Mate cable at both the Mate and Hub….Nada. Any suggestions before I make a long expensive trek out there to do much the same? I do have extra cables, but I don’t keep an inventory of spare Outback parts as we no longer install their equipment. > > Thanks, > Michael > > > > > > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sat Feb 26 14:22:47 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 11:22:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? In-Reply-To: References: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3BD73584-3166-44E5-84C0-D567FC4C9B0F@gmail.com> Thanks Maverick, Can you clarify what you mean by "Spare-204 is the board stack and those less tell it’s operational status” Don’t we have to purchase all three boards? Seems like they were a couple of grand? Michael > On Feb 26, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Maverick Brown wrote: > > Spare-204 is the board stack and those less tell it’s operational status Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Feb 26 14:47:40 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 12:47:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? In-Reply-To: <3BD73584-3166-44E5-84C0-D567FC4C9B0F@gmail.com> References: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> <3BD73584-3166-44E5-84C0-D567FC4C9B0F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6F3C50F0-8226-4780-8281-9345B1E78139@gmail.com> I think he means the LED’s tell its operational status. jay > On Feb 26, 2022, at 12:22 PM, Michael Morningstar wrote: > > Thanks Maverick, > > Can you clarify what you mean by "Spare-204 is the board stack and those less tell it’s operational status” > > Don’t we have to purchase all three boards? Seems like they were a couple of grand? > > Michael >> On Feb 26, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Maverick Brown > wrote: >> >> Spare-204 is the board stack and those less tell it’s operational status > > > > > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Sat Feb 26 15:02:34 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:02:34 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? In-Reply-To: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> References: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael Ask your customer to measure the battery voltage after the 175 amp breakers right where the dc voltage enters the bottom of the inverter. If he can measure good dc voltage there. And there are no fans or Leds on the control stack and the mate does not power up when plugged directly into the inverter then it is more than likely the power supply. I believe Zonna has them in stock if it is out of warranty. If it is in warranty let me know I can connect you to tech support and they can do an RMA. Zonna https://www.zonnaenergy.com/solar/inverters/outback-power-inverters/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=14138468844&utm_content=126225952999&utm_term=off%20grid%20power%20inverter&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItvqlipSe9gIVmz6tBh0PHgTeEAAYASAAEgKdDPD_BwE I called and left my phone number if you would like to discuss this. Take Care Sir From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2022 9:17 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Wrenches, A client of mine visited his remote cabin a few days ago to check in on things. He has a Radian 8048A/FX80 w/ 2kw PV. When he shutters the place for the winter he turns the inverter off, sets AGS to OFF, and only the FX80 is left on. When he tried to turn the inverter on at the Mate 3S, it would not activate. Charger light is on and the Mate is showing charging happening. I instructed him to power cycle, which he did a few times, then plug and unplug the Mate cable at both the Mate and Hub….Nada. Any suggestions before I make a long expensive trek out there to do much the same? I do have extra cables, but I don’t keep an inventory of spare Outback parts as we no longer install their equipment. Thanks, Michael Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, California 96067 530-921-0560 CSLB 949635 [cid:image001.gif at 01D82B08.1C8E7320] This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: image001.gif URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Sat Feb 26 15:07:19 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 14:07:19 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? In-Reply-To: <3BD73584-3166-44E5-84C0-D567FC4C9B0F@gmail.com> References: <3BD73584-3166-44E5-84C0-D567FC4C9B0F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <74F84228-B461-4D01-91EE-8C522EC0C0C9@mavericksolar.com> If the inverter is under warranty and is not functioning, Outback can send a Spare-204 board stack. Otherwise, yes, about $2k. “those less” means those LEDs on the boards indicate the internal operation status and can tell OB tech support the exact failure mode. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Feb 26, 2022, at 1:23 PM, Michael Morningstar wrote: > > Thanks Maverick, > > Can you clarify what you mean by "Spare-204 is the board stack and those less tell it’s operational status” > > Don’t we have to purchase all three boards? Seems like they were a couple of grand? > > Michael >> On Feb 26, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Maverick Brown wrote: >> >> Spare-204 is the board stack and those less tell it’s operational status > > > > > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Feb 26 22:12:11 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:12:11 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bricked Radian? In-Reply-To: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> References: <884760A6-797C-43EF-AAF4-ABD992CE4671@gmail.com> Message-ID: They can get stuffed with data and lock up, the old Mate 3 was more prone but they can all do it. On Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 9:16 AM Michael Morningstar wrote: > Wrenches, > > A client of mine visited his remote cabin a few days ago to check in on > things. He has a Radian 8048A/FX80 w/ 2kw PV. When he shutters the place > for the winter he turns the inverter off, sets AGS to OFF, and only the > FX80 is left on. When he tried to turn the inverter on at the Mate 3S, it > would not activate. Charger light is on and the Mate is showing charging > happening. I instructed him to power cycle, which he did a few times, then > plug and unplug the Mate cable at both the Mate and Hub….Nada. Any > suggestions before I make a long expensive trek out there to do much the > same? I do have extra cables, but I don’t keep an inventory of spare > Outback parts as we no longer install their equipment. > > Thanks, > Michael > > > > > > *Michael **Morningstar* > > * Morningstar Electric* > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, California 96067 > 530-921-0560 > CSLB 949635 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SmallGif.gif Type: image/gif Size: 4744 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rick at solshineenergy.com Mon Feb 28 11:58:59 2022 From: rick at solshineenergy.com (rick at solshineenergy.com) Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 11:58:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controller Message-ID: <65873732-CA26-419F-BCBD-3FAAF491BB1B@solshineenergy.com> Wrenches, Are there any recommendations on repair shops for the above device? Schneider provided me with a list of repair shops but none of them work on charge controllers. The charge controller in question throws a ground fault error when there isn’t one. I verified this with a different charge controller. Thanks, rick brown SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC Electrical & Solar Contracting Services www.SolShineEnergy.com Cave Spring, VA Office: 540.235.3095 Mobile: 540.808.9502 VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solshine-01-18-17 copy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10151 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com Mon Feb 28 19:08:28 2022 From: maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (Kienan Maxfield) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 00:08:28 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jay, I believe that the secret to long LiFePO4 life is low charging voltage. (Of course, the temperature, and depth of discharge do make a big difference as well, but you probably can't control the temperature, and you already said it's not cycling, so DOD isn't an issue either.) There are two problems with just going and reducing charging voltages... 1. As has been mentioned, cell balancing might not work (depending on BMS) 2. BMS calibration errors and/or battery monitor calibration errors may occur I have had this issue once, I tried to reduce the absorb & float voltage to somewhere around 53.2 volts for a non-cycling LiFePO4 battery. I don't remember the exact setting I used. This should keep the battery well over 90% full (probably around 95%) and the client figured that even storing the battery as low as 90% full was a good trade-off in order to extend the shelf life. The only issue is that this specific internal BMS calibrates when the batteries reach a voltage of at least 56 volts, so the BMS slowly kept reporting a lower and lower battery percentage. I was unaware of this, and the client didn't notice, but then the BMS shut the system shut down due to "low SOC". So to sum it up, as far as the chemistry, if you could keep it around 90% SOC for non-cycling use, that would be awesome for shelf life, but because of BMS-related problems, that's probably not going to work well. So here's my own unconventional answer that I've never heard anywhere else, that I have decided is probably best for non-cycling use... 1. Set your float and absorb fairly low. 2. Set an automatic EQ cycle (perhaps once a month) to charge at a voltage that's high enough to calibrate the BMS and balance the cells (depending on the brand, probably around 56V?) 3. Don't let anyone else look at your settings, because nobody will understand why you're "equalizing" a lithium battery, and they'll think you're ignorant and you don't understand the lithium chemistry. Disclaimer: consult battery manufacturer because I don't want any liability 😉. But honestly, it would be good to know what the BMS calibration voltage is, as well as what voltage it starts balancing the cells. Caveat: the only issue with this that I can see is if the BMS needs a significant time to balance the cells. In this scenario, it would be better to get the battery up to the calibration voltage for just a couple of minutes to calibrate the SOC, and then go down to the balancing voltage for a while, then go back to the storage voltage. Unfortunately, I don't know any way to have this kind of cycle happen once a month... Thanks, Kienan Maxfield Solar maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Darryl Thayer Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:10 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery in non cycling use Hi Jay I am not sure what non-cycling use is, I have mentioned before in my experience where a cell in the string can become lower in charge and the string loses capacity in discharge because the BMS shuts off the complete battery when the troubled cell reaches low voltage cut out. To prevent this, a string should go tho top balance. This is of course true for both cycling and little cycling. On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:36 AM Jay > wrote: Hi all the lithium experts. Are there any issues with using LFP lithium in non cycling battery backup mode. Or specific settings, brands etc that should be considered when designing for GTBB, non cycling. Thanks Jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Mar 1 09:23:16 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 09:23:16 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? Message-ID: All, I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web site. Any ideas? Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 10:33:29 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 07:33:29 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think the blank GSLC comes with the main breaker bracket and the bus bars for connecting them. What I have not had a chance to try is connecting the breaker bus that usually connects the bottom of the two main breakers directly to the upper bus bars, and not installing the two breakers at all. It seems like it would fit, but until I see it done I would not specify it. I've often specified a single 250A breaker, usually in a MidNite BCB, to each inverter so that a single 4/0 cable can be used to each inverter. I've been specifying this since the Radian came out and have had no reports of the breaker tripping. This keeps the necessary bus bar size for multiple inverters at a lower rating. Four inverters can be kept within the 1000A rating of the MidNite BCB and the 1000A shunt can be used for the FNDC. If you put all of the charge controllers in a FW500 or FW1000 you can use those shunts for the solar to the FNDC. Brad B AEE Solar On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > All, > > I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my > design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each > respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters > need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not > make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do > make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the > breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. > I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web > site. Any ideas? Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Mar 1 10:40:46 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 10:40:46 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, The GSLC spec sheet does not mention the breaker assembly is included, unless I missed it, I'll have to verify with OB, I was wondering about this. Lones from OB, if you are reading this, can you comment? On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 10:34 AM Bradley Bassett wrote: > I think the blank GSLC comes with the main breaker bracket and the bus > bars for connecting them. What I have not had a chance to try is connecting > the breaker bus that usually connects the bottom of the two main breakers > directly to the upper bus bars, and not installing the two breakers at all. > It seems like it would fit, but until I see it done I would not specify it. > I've often specified a single 250A breaker, usually in a MidNite BCB, to > each inverter so that a single 4/0 cable can be used to each inverter. I've > been specifying this since the Radian came out and have had no reports of > the breaker tripping. This keeps the necessary bus bar size for multiple > inverters at a lower rating. Four inverters can be kept within the 1000A > rating of the MidNite BCB and the 1000A shunt can be used for the FNDC. If > you put all of the charge controllers in a FW500 or FW1000 you can use > those shunts for the solar to the FNDC. > > Brad B > AEE Solar > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > >> All, >> >> I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my >> design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each >> respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters >> need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not >> make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do >> make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the >> breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. >> I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their >> web site. Any ideas? Thanks. >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 10:54:16 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 07:54:16 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk. Good morning. The 175A breaker assembly is included in the bare GSLC box for the radians. You have to order the 175A breakers separately; they are not included. The bare box includes a 500A 50MV shunt, the breaker brackets to connect breakers to the inverter and that's it. No AC buss bars are included. Negative and ground buss bars are included. In a multi inverter system if 1000A 100mv shunt size is needed, note that you can not mix 500A and 1000A shunts on a single flexnet DC. It doesn't work. Shunts all have to be the same. I found this out the hard way. Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > All, > > I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my > design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each > respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters > need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not > make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do > make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the > breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. > I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web > site. Any ideas? Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Mar 1 11:00:52 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:00:52 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks all. I just found it is included as mentioned in the GSLC installation manual. Just not mentioned in the spec sheet about the assembly. On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 10:54 AM Kirpal wrote: > Kirk. Good morning. The 175A breaker assembly is included in the bare > GSLC box for the radians. You have to order the 175A breakers separately; > they are not included. The bare box includes a 500A 50MV shunt, the > breaker brackets to connect breakers to the inverter and that's it. No AC > buss bars are included. Negative and ground buss bars are included. > In a multi inverter system if 1000A 100mv shunt size is needed, note that > you can not mix 500A and 1000A shunts on a single flexnet DC. It doesn't > work. Shunts all have to be the same. I found this out the hard way. > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > >> All, >> >> I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my >> design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each >> respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters >> need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not >> make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do >> make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the >> breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. >> I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their >> web site. Any ideas? Thanks. >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 12:28:58 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 09:28:58 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have not had any feedback about different shunts not working. I can’t see how the FNDC would even be able to tell the difference if they are the same ratio. Brad B Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 1, 2022, at 8:00 AM, Kirk Herander wrote: > > Thanks all. I just found it is included as mentioned in the GSLC installation manual. Just not mentioned in the spec sheet about the assembly. > >> On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 10:54 AM Kirpal wrote: >> Kirk. Good morning. The 175A breaker assembly is included in the bare GSLC box for the radians. You have to order the 175A breakers separately; they are not included. The bare box includes a 500A 50MV shunt, the breaker brackets to connect breakers to the inverter and that's it. No AC buss bars are included. Negative and ground buss bars are included. >> In a multi inverter system if 1000A 100mv shunt size is needed, note that you can not mix 500A and 1000A shunts on a single flexnet DC. It doesn't work. Shunts all have to be the same. I found this out the hard way. >> >> Sunny Regards, >> Kirpal Khalsa >> Oregon LRT#25 >> Oregon Solarworks LLC >> www.oregonsolarworks.com >> 541-299-0402 >> >> >>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: >>> All, >>> >>> I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. >>> I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web site. Any ideas? Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar >>> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC >>> Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! >>> www.vermont.solar >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Mar 1 11:56:27 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 08:56:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirpal: I have used 1000A/100mv shunts connected to an FNDC without issue. As long as the ratio of A to mv is the same the FNDC will not know the difference. Am I missing something? Thanks in advance. William On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 7:54 AM Kirpal wrote: > Kirk. Good morning. The 175A breaker assembly is included in the bare > GSLC box for the radians. You have to order the 175A breakers separately; > they are not included. The bare box includes a 500A 50MV shunt, the > breaker brackets to connect breakers to the inverter and that's it. No AC > buss bars are included. Negative and ground buss bars are included. > In a multi inverter system if 1000A 100mv shunt size is needed, note that > you can not mix 500A and 1000A shunts on a single flexnet DC. It doesn't > work. Shunts all have to be the same. I found this out the hard way. > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > > > >> ________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Mar 1 11:53:22 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 08:53:22 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk: We purchase only the empty GSLC cabinets. They do include the breaker brackets and bus bars. I have received the cabinets missing hardware so check the inventory beforehand. Here are a few hints you probably already know: The shunts are the shoddiest construction and it is very easy to break the plastic base. Torque the upper shunt bolt after all other bus hardware is torqued. I recommend using two 175A breakers. For some troubleshooting procedures it is necessary to isolate the two power modules. An empty GSLC cabinet makes an acceptable PV recombiner. We cut off the bottom dead front tab and substitute a hinge. We wire the breakers with the dead font tilted out flat and all leads hinging at the bottom. We never install any AC breakers in the GSLC cabinets. The back-wiring is just too awkward. Instead we use outboard breaker panels or panel boards—one for Gen Fed and one for Inverter Fed. For bypassing we fabricate custom slide plates bolted to the dead-front to interlock output breakers. It’s not listed but with good craftsmanship it looks official. Here are a few photos: https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/JP_Radian/JP_Radian.html I hope the above info is helpful. William Miller On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > All, > > I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my > design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each > respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters > need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not > make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do > make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the > breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. > I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web > site. Any ideas? Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tom at solar-biz.com Tue Mar 1 12:48:17 2022 From: Tom at solar-biz.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 17:48:17 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controller In-Reply-To: <65873732-CA26-419F-BCBD-3FAAF491BB1B@solshineenergy.com> References: <65873732-CA26-419F-BCBD-3FAAF491BB1B@solshineenergy.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately a “ground fault” report, may just be some sort of anomaly, it could be even ripple voltage leaking through the inverter from a generator shutting down. Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Supply chain crunches brought on by the pandemic and Omicron’s toll on the workforce are causing shortages of goods. Most analysts agree that rising prices — not just in the US, but also across the world — are largely consequences of the Covid-19 crisis rather than policy errors by governments or central banks. Infectious waves have closed factories in Asian manufacturing hubs and caused chaos in transporting products to US markets, creating a spike in demand. Also Americans have cash to burn after two years of canceled vacations, closed restaurants and working from home, a major factor supercharging the price surge. [cid:image001.png at 01D82D6A.9ED48220] tom at solar-biz.com MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 International: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 www.thesolarbiz.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of rick at solshineenergy.com Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 11:59 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider MPPT 80 600 Charge Controller Wrenches, Are there any recommendations on repair shops for the above device? Schneider provided me with a list of repair shops but none of them work on charge controllers. The charge controller in question throws a ground fault error when there isn’t one. I verified this with a different charge controller. Thanks, rick brown SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC Electrical & Solar Contracting Services www.SolShineEnergy.com Cave Spring, VA Office: 540.235.3095 Mobile: 540.808.9502 VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 [cid:image002.jpg at 01D82D6A.9ED48220] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 14016 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10151 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Mar 1 13:56:49 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 13:56:49 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the photos, they look good, gives me some ideas. On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 12:31 PM William Miller wrote: > Kirk: > > We purchase only the empty GSLC cabinets. They do include the breaker > brackets and bus bars. I have received the cabinets missing hardware so > check the inventory beforehand. > > Here are a few hints you probably already know: > > The shunts are the shoddiest construction and it is very easy to break the > plastic base. Torque the upper shunt bolt after all other bus hardware is > torqued. > > I recommend using two 175A breakers. For some troubleshooting procedures > it is necessary to isolate the two power modules. > > An empty GSLC cabinet makes an acceptable PV recombiner. We cut off the > bottom dead front tab and substitute a hinge. We wire the breakers with the > dead font tilted out flat and all leads hinging at the bottom. > > We never install any AC breakers in the GSLC cabinets. The back-wiring is > just too awkward. Instead we use outboard breaker panels or panel > boards—one for Gen Fed and one for Inverter Fed. > > For bypassing we fabricate custom slide plates bolted to the dead-front to > interlock output breakers. It’s not listed but with good craftsmanship it > looks official. > > Here are a few photos: > > > https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/JP_Radian/JP_Radian.html > > I hope the above info is helpful. > > William Miller > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > >> All, >> >> I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my >> design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each >> respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters >> need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not >> make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do >> make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the >> breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. >> I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their >> web site. Any ideas? Thanks. >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wapalco at rockisland.com Tue Mar 1 14:27:25 2022 From: wapalco at rockisland.com (Rockisland) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:27:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hiya William, Does the empty GSLC come with a top, or do you fabricate a top where the Radian usually bolts on? Would love to see a picture of your dead front hinge, I always wanted to to that…. Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. > On Mar 1, 2022, at 8:53 AM, William Miller wrote: > > Kirk: > > We purchase only the empty GSLC cabinets. They do include the breaker brackets and bus bars. I have received the cabinets missing hardware so check the inventory beforehand. > > Here are a few hints you probably already know: > > The shunts are the shoddiest construction and it is very easy to break the plastic base. Torque the upper shunt bolt after all other bus hardware is torqued. > > I recommend using two 175A breakers. For some troubleshooting procedures it is necessary to isolate the two power modules. > > An empty GSLC cabinet makes an acceptable PV recombiner. We cut off the bottom dead front tab and substitute a hinge. We wire the breakers with the dead font tilted out flat and all leads hinging at the bottom. > > We never install any AC breakers in the GSLC cabinets. The back-wiring is just too awkward. Instead we use outboard breaker panels or panel boards—one for Gen Fed and one for Inverter Fed. > > For bypassing we fabricate custom slide plates bolted to the dead-front to interlock output breakers. It’s not listed but with good craftsmanship it looks official. > > Here are a few photos: > > https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/JP_Radian/JP_Radian.html > > I hope the above info is helpful. > > William Miller > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > All, > > I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. > I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web site. Any ideas? Thanks. > > -- > Kirk Herander /  <>kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathanjstumpff at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 14:33:40 2022 From: nathanjstumpff at gmail.com (Nathan J. Stumpff) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:33:40 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Legacy Central INV Support Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Have any of you, or do you know of anyone who has successfully received training and certification from Schneider Electric to support their discontinued central INV lines? If so, please contact me off-list if you are willing to discuss the process and/or possible consulting services. Thanks, -Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Tue Mar 1 13:59:26 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 18:59:26 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let me know if have time to walk through this From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kirk Herander Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 10:57 AM To: William Miller ; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Thanks for the photos, they look good, gives me some ideas. On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 12:31 PM William Miller > wrote: Kirk: We purchase only the empty GSLC cabinets. They do include the breaker brackets and bus bars. I have received the cabinets missing hardware so check the inventory beforehand. Here are a few hints you probably already know: The shunts are the shoddiest construction and it is very easy to break the plastic base. Torque the upper shunt bolt after all other bus hardware is torqued. I recommend using two 175A breakers. For some troubleshooting procedures it is necessary to isolate the two power modules. An empty GSLC cabinet makes an acceptable PV recombiner. We cut off the bottom dead front tab and substitute a hinge. We wire the breakers with the dead font tilted out flat and all leads hinging at the bottom. We never install any AC breakers in the GSLC cabinets. The back-wiring is just too awkward. Instead we use outboard breaker panels or panel boards—one for Gen Fed and one for Inverter Fed. For bypassing we fabricate custom slide plates bolted to the dead-front to interlock output breakers. It’s not listed but with good craftsmanship it looks official. Here are a few photos: https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/JP_Radian/JP_Radian.html I hope the above info is helpful. William Miller On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander > wrote: All, I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web site. Any ideas? Thanks. -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Quick Multi stack.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1520557 bytes Desc: Quick Multi stack.pdf URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Tue Mar 1 14:40:21 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:40:21 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Jason yes the GSLC does come with a top. Please see Page 6 in the link below. https://outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/inverter_chargers/radian_gs_load_center/gslc_plg_web.pdf on the shunts as asked earlier in this thread 1000 amp 100mv And 1500 amp 150 mv Both have the same ration as the 500 amp 50mv normally supplied by OB I hope this helps. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Rockisland Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 11:27 AM To: William Miller ; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hiya William, Does the empty GSLC come with a top, or do you fabricate a top where the Radian usually bolts on? Would love to see a picture of your dead front hinge, I always wanted to to that…. Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Mar 1, 2022, at 8:53 AM, William Miller > wrote: Kirk: We purchase only the empty GSLC cabinets. They do include the breaker brackets and bus bars. I have received the cabinets missing hardware so check the inventory beforehand. Here are a few hints you probably already know: The shunts are the shoddiest construction and it is very easy to break the plastic base. Torque the upper shunt bolt after all other bus hardware is torqued. I recommend using two 175A breakers. For some troubleshooting procedures it is necessary to isolate the two power modules. An empty GSLC cabinet makes an acceptable PV recombiner. We cut off the bottom dead front tab and substitute a hinge. We wire the breakers with the dead font tilted out flat and all leads hinging at the bottom. We never install any AC breakers in the GSLC cabinets. The back-wiring is just too awkward. Instead we use outboard breaker panels or panel boards—one for Gen Fed and one for Inverter Fed. For bypassing we fabricate custom slide plates bolted to the dead-front to interlock output breakers. It’s not listed but with good craftsmanship it looks official. Here are a few photos: https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/JP_Radian/JP_Radian.html I hope the above info is helpful. William Miller On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander > wrote: All, I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web site. Any ideas? Thanks. -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Tue Mar 1 14:41:16 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 19:41:16 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry folks this was meant for Kirk To much jumping around on my computer today From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Tuss, Lones Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 10:59 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Let me know if have time to walk through this From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Kirk Herander Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 10:57 AM To: William Miller >; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Thanks for the photos, they look good, gives me some ideas. On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 12:31 PM William Miller > wrote: Kirk: We purchase only the empty GSLC cabinets. They do include the breaker brackets and bus bars. I have received the cabinets missing hardware so check the inventory beforehand. Here are a few hints you probably already know: The shunts are the shoddiest construction and it is very easy to break the plastic base. Torque the upper shunt bolt after all other bus hardware is torqued. I recommend using two 175A breakers. For some troubleshooting procedures it is necessary to isolate the two power modules. An empty GSLC cabinet makes an acceptable PV recombiner. We cut off the bottom dead front tab and substitute a hinge. We wire the breakers with the dead font tilted out flat and all leads hinging at the bottom. We never install any AC breakers in the GSLC cabinets. The back-wiring is just too awkward. Instead we use outboard breaker panels or panel boards—one for Gen Fed and one for Inverter Fed. For bypassing we fabricate custom slide plates bolted to the dead-front to interlock output breakers. It’s not listed but with good craftsmanship it looks official. Here are a few photos: https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/JP_Radian/JP_Radian.html I hope the above info is helpful. William Miller On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander > wrote: All, I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web site. Any ideas? Thanks. -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Mar 1 14:37:18 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:37:18 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason: The GSLC does come with a top. Attached photo might be what you are looking for. Hope you are well and enjoying life. I correspond daily with Patrick Orleman so I am up on the local weather and politics. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Rockisland [mailto:wapalco at rockisland.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, March 1, 2022 11:27 AM *To:* William Miller; RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? Hiya William, Does the empty GSLC come with a top, or do you fabricate a top where the Radian usually bolts on? Would love to see a picture of your dead front hinge, I always wanted to to that…. Thanks, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Mar 1, 2022, at 8:53 AM, William Miller wrote: Kirk: We purchase only the empty GSLC cabinets. They do include the breaker brackets and bus bars. I have received the cabinets missing hardware so check the inventory beforehand. Here are a few hints you probably already know: The shunts are the shoddiest construction and it is very easy to break the plastic base. Torque the upper shunt bolt after all other bus hardware is torqued. I recommend using two 175A breakers. For some troubleshooting procedures it is necessary to isolate the two power modules. An empty GSLC cabinet makes an acceptable PV recombiner. We cut off the bottom dead front tab and substitute a hinge. We wire the breakers with the dead font tilted out flat and all leads hinging at the bottom. We never install any AC breakers in the GSLC cabinets. The back-wiring is just too awkward. Instead we use outboard breaker panels or panel boards—one for Gen Fed and one for Inverter Fed. For bypassing we fabricate custom slide plates bolted to the dead-front to interlock output breakers. It’s not listed but with good craftsmanship it looks official. Here are a few photos: https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/JP_Radian/JP_Radian.html I hope the above info is helpful. William Miller On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:23 AM Kirk Herander wrote: All, I am doing a multiple stacked Radian GS8048 system. And all I need in my design is two OB 175 a breakers in a box which integrates w/ each respective inverter. The manual bypass switch is useless, for all inverters need to be bypassed at once using a single external bypass. OB does not make a version of the GSLC which only has the inverter breakers. They do make an empty GSLC with nothing in it. But no mounting assembly for the breakers, and no add-on kit offering to do this either. I thought Midnite made something compatible, but don't see it on their web site. Any ideas? Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GSLC_modified.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2137550 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 14:48:59 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:48:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] alternatives to Outback GSLC xxxx box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <788F9926-0D85-409C-A790-FCA0B42A99EF@gmail.com> My take on the GSLC box issues is the wire. If the wire in the GLSC was replaced with Arctic ultra flex or similar, then the breaker panel could be hinged to swing ( right or left) without risk of breaking off terminals from the breakers. Both AC and DC this would work with. Yes still back mount breakers but would be easy to access by the hinged panel. And that flexible wire makes it very easy to route wires in a neat and orderly fashion because you don’t risk breaking anything. For a single unit, I have found as much as the GSLC is a super big pain to work in, its just too much work to swap it all out. For 2 or more inverters then that makes sense to do it as has been suggested here with external breaker panels for AC IN/OUT/Bypass. So to OB, add some $ to the box and make it super flex wire. My 2 cents, Jay From max at seesolar.com Tue Mar 1 15:56:06 2022 From: max at seesolar.com (Max Balchowsky) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 12:56:06 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?HOA=E2=80=99s_in_Southern_California?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, I don’t post much anymore but I’m in the process of installing a small (6.4) kw system on my condo, I started putting it in and went to the city for a permit but the city told me they can’t give me a permit without HOA approval. I’m well within the parameters I know they require, but I didn’t get their permission. The way I read the more recent Solar Access Laws there is no grounds for this. Does anyone have any recent experience with this? Max Balchowsky SEE Systems Newport Beach Ca 92683 760-403-6810 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 16:41:41 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 13:41:41 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?HOA=E2=80=99s_in_Southern_California?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had this experience with my condo in Hawaii, 2 stories or less they can't say no but 3 and more they can because you can only use a small percentage. Mine was 3 stories with 3 individual units, you may have different reasons Jerry On Tue, Mar 1, 2022, 12:56 PM Max Balchowsky wrote: > Hello all, I don’t post much anymore but I’m in the process of installing > a small (6.4) kw system on my condo, I started putting it in and went to > the city for a permit but the city told me they can’t give me a permit > without HOA approval. I’m well within the parameters I know they require, > but I didn’t get their permission. The way I read the more recent Solar > Access Laws there is no grounds for this. Does anyone have any recent > experience with this? > > Max Balchowsky > SEE Systems > Newport Beach Ca 92683 > 760-403-6810 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solsierra1 at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 13:11:24 2022 From: solsierra1 at gmail.com (Vic Guillot) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:11:24 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In regards to LG Chem batteries, I'm surprised that there has not been more talk about this issue. Our patience is running thin. It appears that they are not going to send out RMA warranty replacement units anytime soon. We have had a number of resu10's go code 43. We rma'd them back to socal lg chem headquarters and now they are silent about when and where the replacements will appear. My personal idea is that there is a class action lawsuit against them and the payments to each installer cover the cost of replacement of the battery and inverter. We would of course not use their product but something that is proven to work. We need to make our customers whole again asap. Vic Guillot Vic Guillot Sol Sierra, Inc. 209.795.3554 office 209.768.3560 mobile/text On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 7:22 AM Stuart Kriendler wrote: > We have had two LG Chem battery systems affected by the recall. >> It is now 3 months that one client has been without battery back up and >> ETA on RMA replacement is still weeks away. >> The vendor says approximately 10% of LG units are affected by the recall, >> that's a big loss. >> Funnily I was always worried about LMC and these were the only two LMC >> systems we installed, both needing recalls, complete loss. >> The word is that there will be more LMC recalls in general, Tesla >> possibly. >> >> We are happy with our LiFe solutions so far, and reckon Lead still has >> another few years at least as a sensible and trusted stationary solution >> for DC coupled systems until costs change. >> >> Good luck to everyone with LG product, we won't be speccing anything LG >> for the foreseeable future! Their modules were definitely quality, be >> interesting to see who buys the R&D/IP. >> > > -- > *Stuart Kriendler | Managing Director * > > 48 St. Johns Road, Pembroke, HM 07, Bermuda > > C: 1.441.599.2105 <(441)%20599-2105> | O: > 1.441.279.5907 <(441)%20279-5907> | www.BEsolar.bm > > > [image: BE Solar.bm] > > *OUR VISION: An efficient Bermuda powered by affordable renewable energy. * > *OUR MISSION: To provide the highest quality energy solutions accessible > to all. * > > The information contained in this transmission including any and all > attached files is strictly private and confidential and is intended solely > for the > i > ndividual(s) or entity named above in the To and Copy fields. If you > received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer > system and notify us immediately. If you are not an intended recipient, > please be advised that any use, including viewing, printing, disseminating, > distributing, copying and re-transmitting of the information contained in > this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly > prohibited. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2017-12-20 at 11.46.59 AM.png Type: image/png Size: 30112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Thu Mar 3 13:20:14 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:20:14 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I too am frustrated with LG regarding the Resu10 RMA process. No word on when replacements are coming and we keep getting “supply chain” excuses. I have not given up hope on LG as I think their Prime 16 is the right power and capacity for my marketplace, but if LG doesn’t get their warranty process fixed ASAP, their recent announcement of getting out of the solar module business along with this will cause everyone to question LG on all things solar. Vic, like you, surprised not more dialogue here on LG unless we were the only crazy ones! From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vic Guillot Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 12:11 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem batteries In regards to LG Chem batteries, I'm surprised that there has not been more talk about this issue. Our patience is running thin. It appears that they are not going to send out RMA warranty replacement units anytime soon. We have had a number of resu10's go code 43. We rma'd them back to socal lg chem headquarters and now they are silent about when and where the replacements will appear. My personal idea is that there is a class action lawsuit against them and the payments to each installer cover the cost of replacement of the battery and inverter. We would of course not use their product but something that is proven to work. We need to make our customers whole again asap. Vic Guillot Vic Guillot Sol Sierra, Inc. 209.795.3554 office 209.768.3560 mobile/text On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 7:22 AM Stuart Kriendler > wrote: We have had two LG Chem battery systems affected by the recall. It is now 3 months that one client has been without battery back up and ETA on RMA replacement is still weeks away. The vendor says approximately 10% of LG units are affected by the recall, that's a big loss. Funnily I was always worried about LMC and these were the only two LMC systems we installed, both needing recalls, complete loss. The word is that there will be more LMC recalls in general, Tesla possibly. We are happy with our LiFe solutions so far, and reckon Lead still has another few years at least as a sensible and trusted stationary solution for DC coupled systems until costs change. Good luck to everyone with LG product, we won't be speccing anything LG for the foreseeable future! Their modules were definitely quality, be interesting to see who buys the R&D/IP. -- Stuart Kriendler | Managing Director 48 St. Johns Road, Pembroke, HM 07, Bermuda C: 1.441.599.2105 | O: 1.441.279.5907 | www.BEsolar.bm OUR VISION: An efficient Bermuda powered by affordable renewable energy. OUR MISSION: To provide the highest quality energy solutions accessible to all. The information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly private and confidential and is intended solely for the i ndividual(s) or entity named above in the To and Copy fields. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify us immediately. If you are not an intended recipient, please be advised that any use, including viewing, printing, disseminating, distributing, copying and re-transmitting of the information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly prohibited. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 27572 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 30112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Fri Mar 4 14:23:55 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2022 12:23:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarWorld modules, 280-285W -- Got any? Message-ID: <000b01d82ffd$64453c40$2ccfb4c0$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks: I have a fellow looking for four of the SW280s or preferably 285s. Does anyone have any available? If so, please contact me off list. Thanks! TGIF, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Mar 5 09:23:25 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 07:23:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3000 watt quiet inverter Message-ID: <3BB7C8C5-9F4B-460A-8D2F-7C289C5725B3@gmail.com> Hi all I’ve got a client that wants a replacement inverter as her magnum is way to loud. Yep, shouldn’t be inside, and not by her bedroom but it is and can’t be moved, either one. So looking for feedback as to the most quiet 3000ish watt 120vac 12vdc inverter/charger. Rarely will need to charge, so options of external chargers are ok too. Needs to run some power tools, blenders etc. The victron multiplus II might fit the bill. Magnum is out because she hates this one. OB vfxr, maybe? Thanks Jay From maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com Sat Mar 5 18:11:11 2022 From: maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (Kienan Maxfield) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 23:11:11 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Troubleshooting Message-ID: Hello all, I'm troubleshooting an interesting case. It's a DC coupled SMA Sunni Island system with two of the 6048 SI's. I think that the both of the SI's are fried, and I think I know why, but there's a strange twist so I thought I'd ask if anyone here has any insight... So this is a DC Power system, and whoever was building these at DC power made a mistake on the Main wire that connects to the battery, so the connection came loose. When I looked at it for my client, I saw that there is an internal capacitor in one of the SI's that is blown. I assumed that the loose connection cause voltage spikes from the charge controller to damage the inverter. But then I repaired the wiring, and everything powered up fine, and the SI system was putting out perfect power. Then, two days later, I looked at it again because the customer was going to come pick it up, and the inverters were apparently dead. I tried resetting them, but it seems like there's just nothing. The screen won't come on, it won't make any noise, etc. There is good voltage on the DC in terminals. So my question is why they both came on, and why they both fried after the problem was fixed. I mean, it makes sense that they were damaged from the voltage spikes from loose wiring, but I don't understand why they would come on and then finish frying with no load... Other question, I know that with outback inverters, you can normally repair the inverter by replacing a board that is a fraction of the cost of the inverter. Is this so with SMA SI's? And does anyone have a recommendation on how to troubleshoot at a board level, or where to source the boards? I did already tell the customer that I think his inverters will need to be replaced, but just hoping to make sure I don't overlook something first... Thanks, Kienan Maxfield Solar maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at getpimby.com Sat Mar 5 18:50:02 2022 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matthew Sherald) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 18:50:02 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3000 watt quiet inverter In-Reply-To: <3BB7C8C5-9F4B-460A-8D2F-7C289C5725B3@gmail.com> References: <3BB7C8C5-9F4B-460A-8D2F-7C289C5725B3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D4C9562-E8F2-40AC-8B99-04FC8F0FDEC4@getpimby.com> Jay, VFXR might be too loud. I have customers who object to the noise that theirs makes even though it is mounted to a basement wall and well removed from their living area. The fans do seem to run frequently. I’ve installed the Victron model in vans and have not had a complaint. Good luck! -Matt Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 5, 2022, at 10:46 AM, Jay wrote: > > Hi all > > I’ve got a client that wants a replacement inverter as her magnum is way to loud. Yep, shouldn’t be inside, and not by her bedroom but it is and can’t be moved, either one. > > So looking for feedback as to the most quiet 3000ish watt 120vac 12vdc inverter/charger. > Rarely will need to charge, so options of external chargers are ok too. > Needs to run some power tools, blenders etc. > > The victron multiplus II might fit the bill. > Magnum is out because she hates this one. > OB vfxr, maybe? > > Thanks > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From chris at solarwindworks.com Sat Mar 5 20:51:25 2022 From: chris at solarwindworks.com (chris at solarwindworks.com) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2022 17:51:25 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <034001d830fc$b0e61470$12b23d50$@solarwindworks.com> You might try Solar Cowboyz in Grass Valley CA, for their SMA rebuild expertise. Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works Cell: 530-448-9692 chris at solarwindworks.com www.solarwindworks.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kienan Maxfield Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2022 3:11 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Troubleshooting Hello all, I'm troubleshooting an interesting case. It's a DC coupled SMA Sunni Island system with two of the 6048 SI's. I think that the both of the SI's are fried, and I think I know why, but there's a strange twist so I thought I'd ask if anyone here has any insight... So this is a DC Power system, and whoever was building these at DC power made a mistake on the Main wire that connects to the battery, so the connection came loose. When I looked at it for my client, I saw that there is an internal capacitor in one of the SI's that is blown. I assumed that the loose connection cause voltage spikes from the charge controller to damage the inverter. But then I repaired the wiring, and everything powered up fine, and the SI system was putting out perfect power. Then, two days later, I looked at it again because the customer was going to come pick it up, and the inverters were apparently dead. I tried resetting them, but it seems like there's just nothing. The screen won't come on, it won't make any noise, etc. There is good voltage on the DC in terminals. So my question is why they both came on, and why they both fried after the problem was fixed. I mean, it makes sense that they were damaged from the voltage spikes from loose wiring, but I don't understand why they would come on and then finish frying with no load... Other question, I know that with outback inverters, you can normally repair the inverter by replacing a board that is a fraction of the cost of the inverter. Is this so with SMA SI's? And does anyone have a recommendation on how to troubleshoot at a board level, or where to source the boards? I did already tell the customer that I think his inverters will need to be replaced, but just hoping to make sure I don't overlook something first... Thanks, Kienan Maxfield Solar maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Sun Mar 6 13:16:26 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2022 10:16:26 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kienan, Sounds like your diagnosis of a blown capacitor is definite proof of a serious repair. However, in my years of playing with the Islands I have fairly recently observed similar behavior with the screens not powering up while there is sufficient DC voltage at it’s terminals. Four times now one of the DC Power trailer systems I am responsible for did the same thing but after a full 45 minutes with the DC breakers completely powered down it then came back on once the breakers were closed again. After the first incident I came back with a Radian to loan them because I thought it was either a complete failure or due to a closed loop communications glitch between the SI’s and the Blue Ion’s Namaka however this still happened even if I tried to fool it by just programming the SI’s with a VRLA charging profile. After some behind the scenes tweaking by Blue Planet’s supportive techs (Jody is the best) the site experienced trouble free closed loop operations for about 8 months until a few weeks ago when we started getting similar shutdowns. I say similar because I was only able to support the customer remotely without being on site but he was describing the same exact thing with the screens being blank while the Classic controllers were indicating above 51 vdc. I was able to verify through the Stellar interface that upon each incident site conditions appeared to be normal with very small load and no less than 31% SOC at the least. This happened three days in a row at about the same time of day and once again after letting Blue Planet know they were able to update some firmware on their end which so far has rewarded the site with trouble-free power once again though we’re only about 12 days beyond the incidents at this point. The other time I observed this was twice on a Multicluster job I installed about 16 months ago. Same thing, no lights on the inverters while the batteries still had reasonable capacity left to give. I don’t recall if it was just the one master cluster or all of them but it appeared to be really bad at first thinking I needed to come up with some extra Islands in a hurry but then after an extended period with the Island's DC breakers open they eventually powered up as if nothing ever happened. The point is there are definitely some deep settings in those inverters not mentioned in the manual where the screens go blank for undetermined reasons. See if an extended off duration works to your advantage before resorting to more burdensome efforts. Then as Chris said call Solar Cowboyz and see if you can speak with Louis. Dang ole Islands man. Good luck, Nick > On Mar 5, 2022, at 3:11 PM, Kienan Maxfield wrote: > > Hello all, > > I'm troubleshooting an interesting case. It's a DC coupled SMA Sunni Island system with two of the 6048 SI's. I think that the both of the SI's are fried, and I think I know why, but there's a strange twist so I thought I'd ask if anyone here has any insight... > > So this is a DC Power system, and whoever was building these at DC power made a mistake on the Main wire that connects to the battery, so the connection came loose. When I looked at it for my client, I saw that there is an internal capacitor in one of the SI's that is blown. I assumed that the loose connection cause voltage spikes from the charge controller to damage the inverter. But then I repaired the wiring, and everything powered up fine, and the SI system was putting out perfect power. Then, two days later, I looked at it again because the customer was going to come pick it up, and the inverters were apparently dead. I tried resetting them, but it seems like there's just nothing. The screen won't come on, it won't make any noise, etc. There is good voltage on the DC in terminals. So my question is why they both came on, and why they both fried after the problem was fixed. I mean, it makes sense that they were damaged from the voltage spikes from loose wiring, but I don't understand why they would come on and then finish frying with no load... > > Other question, I know that with outback inverters, you can normally repair the inverter by replacing a board that is a fraction of the cost of the inverter. Is this so with SMA SI's? And does anyone have a recommendation on how to troubleshoot at a board level, or where to source the boards? I did already tell the customer that I think his inverters will need to be replaced, but just hoping to make sure I don't overlook something first... > > Thanks, > Kienan > > > Maxfield Solar > maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com > (801) 631-5584 (Cell) > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Mon Mar 7 20:35:13 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2022 17:35:13 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3000 watt quiet inverter In-Reply-To: <3BB7C8C5-9F4B-460A-8D2F-7C289C5725B3@gmail.com> References: <3BB7C8C5-9F4B-460A-8D2F-7C289C5725B3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay,             I have an Outback Flexpower2 installed in my shop for a year now and they are as quite a church mouse at lower power. Once the fans come on though its fan noise, usually for awhile as loads pick-up for the day.  If the power drops below about 5-600 watts? or so for awhile, the fan(s) will turn off.  Its usually one fan of course depending.....  It (the fan) also definitely is affected by ambient air temp. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 3/5/2022 6:23 AM, Jay wrote: > Hi all > > I’ve got a client that wants a replacement inverter as her magnum is way to loud. Yep, shouldn’t be inside, and not by her bedroom but it is and can’t be moved, either one. > > So looking for feedback as to the most quiet 3000ish watt 120vac 12vdc inverter/charger. > Rarely will need to charge, so options of external chargers are ok too. > Needs to run some power tools, blenders etc. > > The victron multiplus II might fit the bill. > Magnum is out because she hates this one. > OB vfxr, maybe? > > Thanks > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From william at millersolar.com Tue Mar 8 09:53:37 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 06:53:37 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING Message-ID: <70594fd1e2d8f2900d56e1e46c42106e@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? Thanks in advance, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 10:58:16 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 07:58:16 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING In-Reply-To: <70594fd1e2d8f2900d56e1e46c42106e@mail.gmail.com> References: <70594fd1e2d8f2900d56e1e46c42106e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump because of the requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small er output DC pumps but that is not what you need, first find a AC pump that can do the required 10 GPM at 300 feet of head then design a inverter to fit that bill PV to recharge that usage and then some. look at the first and last day of the desired water demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but at a cost so look at options output vs input. I have done this with Grundus and DC direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top of the property so it can be done with DC so AC just requires additional nighttime. Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every night and a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be done DC direct, cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can run on a genny if you have bad weather for days, This is how the ones I have done work. Jerry On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 7:32 AM William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > > > I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring > through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that > will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) > > > > I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am > wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the > Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. > > > > Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danny at sesre.com Tue Mar 8 17:57:04 2022 From: danny at sesre.com (Daniel Young) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2022 22:57:04 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I recently had to fix a similar issue with a dual SI site. No blown Capacitor, but blank screens regardless of power cycles, and good voltages in and out. Took the covers off and notice a red led illuminated on the bottom left corner of the main circuit board next to the electro-mechanical relay. Talked with support and they stated that was a LBM-3 error (low battery protection error). I question if this is really the case. Regardless, they asked I remove all DC and AC voltage from the SI (meaning remove the voltage completely, not just turning off the internal DC switch, which still gives the circuit board a little power, I used remote battery circuit breakers to do this), wait at least 15 min, then power it back on. It worked for me, and I am watching to see if the problem reoccurs (2 weeks clear so far). Just another data point that a 15min+ power cycle might help in your case. -- Danny Young Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Nick A Lucchese Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2022 1:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Troubleshooting Kienan, Sounds like your diagnosis of a blown capacitor is definite proof of a serious repair. However, in my years of playing with the Islands I have fairly recently observed similar behavior with the screens not powering up while there is sufficient DC voltage at it’s terminals. Four times now one of the DC Power trailer systems I am responsible for did the same thing but after a full 45 minutes with the DC breakers completely powered down it then came back on once the breakers were closed again. After the first incident I came back with a Radian to loan them because I thought it was either a complete failure or due to a closed loop communications glitch between the SI’s and the Blue Ion’s Namaka however this still happened even if I tried to fool it by just programming the SI’s with a VRLA charging profile. After some behind the scenes tweaking by Blue Planet’s supportive techs (Jody is the best) the site experienced trouble free closed loop operations for about 8 months until a few weeks ago when we started getting similar shutdowns. I say similar because I was only able to support the customer remotely without being on site but he was describing the same exact thing with the screens being blank while the Classic controllers were indicating above 51 vdc. I was able to verify through the Stellar interface that upon each incident site conditions appeared to be normal with very small load and no less than 31% SOC at the least. This happened three days in a row at about the same time of day and once again after letting Blue Planet know they were able to update some firmware on their end which so far has rewarded the site with trouble-free power once again though we’re only about 12 days beyond the incidents at this point. The other time I observed this was twice on a Multicluster job I installed about 16 months ago. Same thing, no lights on the inverters while the batteries still had reasonable capacity left to give. I don’t recall if it was just the one master cluster or all of them but it appeared to be really bad at first thinking I needed to come up with some extra Islands in a hurry but then after an extended period with the Island's DC breakers open they eventually powered up as if nothing ever happened. The point is there are definitely some deep settings in those inverters not mentioned in the manual where the screens go blank for undetermined reasons. See if an extended off duration works to your advantage before resorting to more burdensome efforts. Then as Chris said call Solar Cowboyz and see if you can speak with Louis. Dang ole Islands man. Good luck, Nick On Mar 5, 2022, at 3:11 PM, Kienan Maxfield > wrote: Hello all, I'm troubleshooting an interesting case. It's a DC coupled SMA Sunni Island system with two of the 6048 SI's. I think that the both of the SI's are fried, and I think I know why, but there's a strange twist so I thought I'd ask if anyone here has any insight... So this is a DC Power system, and whoever was building these at DC power made a mistake on the Main wire that connects to the battery, so the connection came loose. When I looked at it for my client, I saw that there is an internal capacitor in one of the SI's that is blown. I assumed that the loose connection cause voltage spikes from the charge controller to damage the inverter. But then I repaired the wiring, and everything powered up fine, and the SI system was putting out perfect power. Then, two days later, I looked at it again because the customer was going to come pick it up, and the inverters were apparently dead. I tried resetting them, but it seems like there's just nothing. The screen won't come on, it won't make any noise, etc. There is good voltage on the DC in terminals. So my question is why they both came on, and why they both fried after the problem was fixed. I mean, it makes sense that they were damaged from the voltage spikes from loose wiring, but I don't understand why they would come on and then finish frying with no load... Other question, I know that with outback inverters, you can normally repair the inverter by replacing a board that is a fraction of the cost of the inverter. Is this so with SMA SI's? And does anyone have a recommendation on how to troubleshoot at a board level, or where to source the boards? I did already tell the customer that I think his inverters will need to be replaced, but just hoping to make sure I don't overlook something first... Thanks, Kienan Maxfield Solar maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Mar 9 09:14:02 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 09:14:02 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Panel Sealant Message-ID: Hi All, What sealant do you all like to use for flashings on a shingle roof? I have used the Geocel S2 and S4 for years, and it seems like it is nearly impossible to get right now. Thanks! Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Mar 9 09:27:34 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 09:27:34 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Panel Sealant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chemlink M1. Comes in many colors. Sticks to anything, even when wet. It's used for their flat roof sealant pockets, too. It's a tenacious sealant/adhesive with excellent longevity. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 9:14 AM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > > What sealant do you all like to use for flashings on a shingle roof? I > have used the Geocel S2 and S4 for years, and it seems like it is nearly > impossible to get right now. > > Thanks! > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Wed Mar 9 09:31:55 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 06:31:55 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Panel Sealant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We’ve been using ChemLink M-1 for at least 10 years now, I have not seen any signs of issues: https://chemlink.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/M-1-1072021.pdf We’ve been training our crews to use isopropyl alcohol to clean surfaces including metal flashings to clean off any residual oil that might be left after manufacturing, just to assure strong adhesion. Geocell 2300 is another classic: https://www.geocelusa.com/product/2300-construction-tripolymer-sealant/ August Luminalt On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 6:14 AM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > > What sealant do you all like to use for flashings on a shingle roof? I > have used the Geocel S2 and S4 for years, and it seems like it is nearly > impossible to get right now. > > Thanks! > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. > > > | Ithaca, > NY 14850 > > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- August Goers Luminalt o: 415.792.6666 m: 415.559.1525 august at luminalt.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Mar 9 11:42:10 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 11:42:10 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Panel Sealant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: August and Jason, thanks for the suggestions. I also had a random vendor online tell me that the S2 and S4 is in fact discontinued and was replaced by the Geocel 4600 series. I am wondering if anyone here has used that as well? Cheers, Dave On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 9:32 AM August Goers wrote: > We’ve been using ChemLink M-1 for at least 10 years now, I have not seen > any signs of issues: > > https://chemlink.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/M-1-1072021.pdf > > We’ve been training our crews to use isopropyl alcohol to clean surfaces > including metal flashings to clean off any residual oil that might be left > after manufacturing, just to assure strong adhesion. > > Geocell 2300 is another classic: > > https://www.geocelusa.com/product/2300-construction-tripolymer-sealant/ > > > August > Luminalt > > On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 6:14 AM Dave Tedeyan > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> What sealant do you all like to use for flashings on a shingle roof? I >> have used the Geocel S2 and S4 for years, and it seems like it is nearly >> impossible to get right now. >> >> Thanks! >> Dave >> >> -- >> [image: Logo] >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. >> >> >> | Ithaca, >> NY 14850 >> >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > August Goers > Luminalt > o: 415.792.6666 > m: 415.559.1525 > august at luminalt.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Wed Mar 9 12:04:49 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 09:04:49 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Panel Sealant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Geocell's multiple part numbers have always confused me about what is the most appropriate choice. That is the nice thing with M-1, it works on most surfaces per the data sheet. That said, I know at least one of the large nation-wide installers is using Geocell 2300 on comp shingle roofs currently. August On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 8:42 AM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > August and Jason, thanks for the suggestions. > > I also had a random vendor online tell me that the S2 and S4 is in fact > discontinued and was replaced by the Geocel 4600 series. I am wondering if > anyone here has used that as well? > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 9:32 AM August Goers wrote: > >> We’ve been using ChemLink M-1 for at least 10 years now, I have not seen >> any signs of issues: >> >> https://chemlink.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/M-1-1072021.pdf >> >> We’ve been training our crews to use isopropyl alcohol to clean surfaces >> including metal flashings to clean off any residual oil that might be left >> after manufacturing, just to assure strong adhesion. >> >> Geocell 2300 is another classic: >> >> https://www.geocelusa.com/product/2300-construction-tripolymer-sealant/ >> >> >> August >> Luminalt >> >> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 6:14 AM Dave Tedeyan >> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> What sealant do you all like to use for flashings on a shingle roof? I >>> have used the Geocel S2 and S4 for years, and it seems like it is nearly >>> impossible to get right now. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Dave >>> >>> -- >>> [image: Logo] >>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >>> Owner | Sungineer Solar >>> p: he | him | his >>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. >>> >>> >>> | Ithaca, >>> NY 14850 >>> >>> w: www.sungineersolar.com >>> c: (607) 288-2898 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -- >> August Goers >> Luminalt >> o: 415.792.6666 >> m: 415.559.1525 >> august at luminalt.com >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon.siegenthaler at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:18:35 2022 From: jon.siegenthaler at gmail.com (Jon Siegenthaler) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 13:18:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG RESU10 alternative Message-ID: Hey wrenches, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Has anyone found an alternative to the LG Chem RESU10 for the Solaredge Storedge inverter? LG keeps pushing back their RMA replacement time first for Q3 of 2021 and now fingers crossed Q2 of 2022. I can't seem to source the Solaredge battery. Are there any Chinese manufacturers that work? I was told by my supplier that the new LG Prime 16 will probably be available in June but most likely later than that. Any info would be great! Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Wed Mar 9 14:48:59 2022 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 14:48:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG RESU10 alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003201d833ee$b9a15260$2ce3f720$@glbcc.com> Jon, If as announced, LG is pulling out of the US solar market, will they really still be releasing new storage products here? From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jon Siegenthaler Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2022 2:19 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG RESU10 alternative Hey wrenches, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Has anyone found an alternative to the LG Chem RESU10 for the Solaredge Storedge inverter? LG keeps pushing back their RMA replacement time first for Q3 of 2021 and now fingers crossed Q2 of 2022. I can't seem to source the Solaredge battery. Are there any Chinese manufacturers that work? I was told by my supplier that the new LG Prime 16 will probably be available in June but most likely later than that. Any info would be great! Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 15:04:16 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 12:04:16 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG RESU10 alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Solaredge has one available now so look there Jerry On Wed, Mar 9, 2022, 11:18 AM Jon Siegenthaler wrote: > Hey wrenches, > > I'm sure I'm not the only one. Has anyone found an alternative to the LG > Chem RESU10 for the Solaredge Storedge inverter? LG keeps pushing back > their RMA replacement time first for Q3 of 2021 and now fingers crossed Q2 > of 2022. I can't seem to source the Solaredge battery. Are there any > Chinese manufacturers that work? I was told by my supplier that the new LG > Prime 16 will probably be available in June but most likely later than > that. Any info would be great! > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solsierra1 at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 19:35:30 2022 From: solsierra1 at gmail.com (Vic Guillot) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 16:35:30 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG RESU10 alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So our big issue right now is whether or not LG Chem honors their warranty on the recall or do they file bankruptcy and leave the installers holding the bag. Vic Guillot Talk to me off line On Wed, Mar 9, 2022, 12:04 PM Jerry Shafer wrote: > Solaredge has one available now so look there > Jerry > > On Wed, Mar 9, 2022, 11:18 AM Jon Siegenthaler > wrote: > >> Hey wrenches, >> >> I'm sure I'm not the only one. Has anyone found an alternative to the LG >> Chem RESU10 for the Solaredge Storedge inverter? LG keeps pushing back >> their RMA replacement time first for Q3 of 2021 and now fingers crossed Q2 >> of 2022. I can't seem to source the Solaredge battery. Are there any >> Chinese manufacturers that work? I was told by my supplier that the new LG >> Prime 16 will probably be available in June but most likely later than >> that. Any info would be great! >> >> Jon >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From windydankoff at mac.com Thu Mar 10 11:29:33 2022 From: windydankoff at mac.com (Windy Dankoff) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:29:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> Dear William, SunPumps has a new helical rotor submersible series (positive displacement) that is typically much more efficient for high lift compared to a normal multi-stage centrifugal sub (you'll have to compare the specs). https://www.sunpumps.com/Products/HR%2010-525%20AC%20DC I have no inside-knowledge of this item, but it's based on good technology similar to Lorentz and Grundfos and SunPumps is on the same level as a world leader. With any DC pump, you need to be sure it's compatible with battery power if you need 24/7. I hope you'll let us know how it goes. Windy > > From: William Miller > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING > Date: March 8, 2022 at 7:53:37 AM MST > To: RE-wrenches > > Reply-To: > > > > Friends: > > I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) > > I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. > > Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? > > Thanks in advance, > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > From: Jerry Shafer > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING > Date: March 8, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM MST > To: William Miller >, RE-wrenches > > > > William > Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump because of the requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small er output DC pumps but that is not what you need, first find a AC pump that can do the required 10 GPM at 300 feet of head then design a inverter to fit that bill PV to recharge that usage and then some. look at the first and last day of the desired water demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but at a cost so look at options output vs input. I have done this with Grundus and DC direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top of the property so it can be done with DC so AC just requires additional nighttime. > Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every night and a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be done DC direct, cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can run on a genny if you have bad weather for days, This is how the ones I have done work. > Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Thu Mar 10 11:46:31 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 10:46:31 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG RESU10 alternative In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Word of warning...I was told that the Prime battery is not backward compatible with the Storedge Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 1:18 PM Jon Siegenthaler wrote: > Hey wrenches, > > I'm sure I'm not the only one. Has anyone found an alternative to the LG > Chem RESU10 for the Solaredge Storedge inverter? LG keeps pushing back > their RMA replacement time first for Q3 of 2021 and now fingers crossed Q2 > of 2022. I can't seem to source the Solaredge battery. Are there any > Chinese manufacturers that work? I was told by my supplier that the new LG > Prime 16 will probably be available in June but most likely later than > that. Any info would be great! > > Jon > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Mar 10 11:54:08 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2022 09:54:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING In-Reply-To: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> References: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> Message-ID: <26AB7DB9-8EC3-4518-AF63-BB62F4E1EE1A@gmail.com> HI Windy and William I was just thinking about this system today. I have a different take, but it depends on if the well can produce 30 gpm +/-. The client wants 14,400 gpd. If the system is in SoCal then those months with correct PV orientation you should be able to get 8 hrs per day. Split array, east/west. Thats 30 gpm, and about 12,000 gallons of storage. That storage is about $6000 which is going to be lots cheaper than batteries. ( would be using 4 x 3000 gallon tanks, which are typically in stock, quick to install and don’t add to property tax.) So pump during the day and use water storage vs battery storage. The amount of PV is going to be pretty close regardless of which system battery or storage. As to a pump, probably looking at the franklin solar version or similar AC with solar/vfd drive. If you can’t do 30 gpm, then the pump windy shows below, with a high voltage DC battery might work. Not sure what you’d do for a controller and if that pump will work with batteries? Interesting problem, jay > On Mar 10, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Windy Dankoff wrote: > > Dear William, > > SunPumps has a new helical rotor submersible series (positive displacement) that is typically much more efficient for high lift compared to a normal multi-stage centrifugal sub (you'll have to compare the specs). > > https://www.sunpumps.com/Products/HR%2010-525%20AC%20DC > > I have no inside-knowledge of this item, but it's based on good technology similar to Lorentz and Grundfos and SunPumps is on the same level as a world leader. > > With any DC pump, you need to be sure it's compatible with battery power if you need 24/7. > > I hope you'll let us know how it goes. > > Windy > >> >> From: William Miller > >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING >> Date: March 8, 2022 at 7:53:37 AM MST >> To: RE-wrenches > >> Reply-To: > >> >> >> Friends: >> >> I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) >> >> I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. >> >> Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Jerry Shafer > >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING >> Date: March 8, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM MST >> To: William Miller >, RE-wrenches > >> >> >> William >> Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump because of the requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small er output DC pumps but that is not what you need, first find a AC pump that can do the required 10 GPM at 300 feet of head then design a inverter to fit that bill PV to recharge that usage and then some. look at the first and last day of the desired water demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but at a cost so look at options output vs input. I have done this with Grundus and DC direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top of the property so it can be done with DC so AC just requires additional nighttime. >> Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every night and a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be done DC direct, cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can run on a genny if you have bad weather for days, This is how the ones I have done work. >> Jerry > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sat Mar 12 15:11:18 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:11:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery fires Message-ID: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/massive-cargo-ship-carrying-electric-car s-sinks-in-atlantic-ocean-after-fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw NTSB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eS6JzBn0k Without trying to be a fear monger but definitely concerned as an installer - This ship caught fire carrying both conventional & electric vehicles & Sank On this note and various numerous U-tube videos of lithium car fires, Should we be concerned with installing lithium batteries in homes? What would our liability be in the event of a home fire? Ours or the manufacturer? What would happen to our liability insurance rates if there is a rash of fires? Any thoughts as we all install more lithium batteries in homes? Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Sat Mar 12 15:15:51 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 10:15:51 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery fires In-Reply-To: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> References: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: As I far as I know in the grid-tie residential storage market, Tesla Powerwalls have dominated, especially in the two largest markets of California and Hawaii. (Full disclosure: I'm a Tesla Certified Installer.) To my knowledge, I've never seen an example of one torching. In fact, Tesla, to their credit, let's us know when a PW is not performing to spec and then actively pursues the RMA. marco On Saturday, March 12, 2022, Dana Orzel wrote: > https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/massive-cargo-ship- > carrying-electric-cars-sinks-in-atlantic-ocean-after-fire > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw > > NTSB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eS6JzBn0k > > > > Without trying to be a fear monger but definitely concerned as an > installer – > > > > This ship caught fire carrying both conventional & electric vehicles & Sank > > On this note and various numerous U-tube videos of lithium car fires, > Should we be concerned with installing lithium batteries in homes? > > What would our liability be in the event of a home fire? > > Ours or the manufacturer? > > What would happen to our liability insurance rates if there is a rash of > fires? > > > > Any thoughts as we all install more lithium batteries in homes? > > > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Sat Mar 12 15:37:23 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 13:37:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery fires In-Reply-To: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> References: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: I would start by choosing my lithium technology carefully. I have only installed Blue Ion LiFP batteries, and have relied on Blue Planet's assurances that lithium ferrous sulfate technology is non-flammable and thus safe in residential applications. Allan On 3/12/2022 1:11 PM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/massive-cargo-ship-carrying-electric-cars-sinks-in-atlantic-ocean-after-fire > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw > > NTSB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eS6JzBn0k > > Without trying to be a fear monger but definitely concerned as an > installer – > > This ship caught fire carrying both conventional & electric vehicles & > Sank > > On this note and various numerous U-tube videos of lithium car fires, > Should we be concerned with installing lithium batteries in homes? > > What would our liability be in the event of a home fire? > > Ours or the manufacturer? > > What would happen to our liability insurance rates if there is a rash > of fires? > > Any thoughts as we all install more lithium batteries in homes? > > Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. > -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Sat Mar 12 17:41:44 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 15:41:44 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery fires In-Reply-To: References: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Safer LiFePO4 vs. "lithium ion" NMC formulation for ESS is also important to carefully explain to customers--especially since the UN 3480/3481 hazmat shipping labels and regulations group them both into the same category of "Lithium Ion" and that's what stamped and placarded on the box. Ran into this with a floatplane transport situation for a remote location. Had to longline them under a heli a week later on a separate trip with the other dangerous stuff even though they were LiFePO4 and not NMC. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 1:37 PM Sindelar Solar wrote: > I would start by choosing my lithium technology carefully. I have only > installed Blue Ion LiFP batteries, and have relied on Blue Planet's > assurances that lithium ferrous sulfate technology is non-flammable and > thus safe in residential applications. > Allan > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Sat Mar 12 17:42:55 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 12:42:55 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery placement Message-ID: Just out of curiosity, does Blue Planet allow for the placement of their Blue Ion battery in residential living spaces? marco On Saturday, March 12, 2022, Sindelar Solar wrote: > I would start by choosing my lithium technology carefully. I have only > installed Blue Ion LiFP batteries, and have relied on Blue Planet's > assurances that lithium ferrous sulfate technology is non-flammable and > thus safe in residential applications. > Allan > > On 3/12/2022 1:11 PM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/massive-cargo-ship- > carrying-electric-cars-sinks-in-atlantic-ocean-after-fire > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw > > NTSB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eS6JzBn0k > > > > Without trying to be a fear monger but definitely concerned as an > installer – > > > > This ship caught fire carrying both conventional & electric vehicles & Sank > > On this note and various numerous U-tube videos of lithium car fires, > Should we be concerned with installing lithium batteries in homes? > > What would our liability be in the event of a home fire? > > Ours or the manufacturer? > > What would happen to our liability insurance rates if there is a rash of > fires? > > > > Any thoughts as we all install more lithium batteries in homes? > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > -- > > *Allan Sindelar* > allan at sindelarsolar.com > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. > *505 780-2738 cell* > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com Sat Mar 12 18:42:53 2022 From: maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (Kienan Maxfield) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 23:42:53 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery fires In-Reply-To: References: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Here's my 2¢... LiFePO4 And NMC are Both technically types of "Lithium-Ion" batteries. Neither one has pure lithium, they have ions of lithium. That being said, I agree that they shouldn't even really be in the same category. They have some shared traits and some different traits. It is incorrect to say that LiFePO4 (aka LiFe or LFP) is "non-flammable." That being said, it is very difficult to start a LiFePO4 on fire, and it doesn't give much flame, mostly just a bunch of toxic smoke. Therefore, a LiFePO4 fire likely wouldn't spread and start a structure on fire. You can find people on youtube who do successfully get it to burn, but it's not easy. The biggest danger with LiFePO4 is the high current & arc potential. But even at that, at the same capacity, the NMC has quite a lot more available amps in an arc flash scenario. I think it's possible to have a very good safety record with NMC (like Tesla perhaps), and it's probably one bad brand that'll have a lot of fires that will ruin it for everyone else. But NMC will never be as good as LiFePO4. For one thing, a fire could start near the NMC battery and catch the battery on fire, then the battery fire is the reason that the fire spread to the rest of the building... or rather, the battery was the only reason they couldn't extinguish the fire. There are lots of videos of people trying to extinguish a fire from one of these more unstable chemistries... it rarely goes well. I don't claim that LiFePO4 is entirely safe, but it shouldn't be in the same category as NMC. Not to mention that it has about double the lifespan. Unfortunately, I doubt that insurance companies will get the difference between these two batteries, but I think that should be our big banner... they are not the same battery, and if the one fails, the other should not be identified with the one. I don't think that any one brand of LiFePO4 is significantly safer than any other because the chemistry itself is so stable, but there are other important reasons to choose quality. The biggest is BMS problems. I've had big BMS problems, and it makes me pretty picky about which brands I'll choose going forward. I have 4 brands that I currently trust... but I don't feel like I need to try to laud certain brands or badmouth others... just be sure that you use one that you trust. Thanks, Kienan Maxfield Solar maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Dan Fink Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2022 3:41 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery fires Safer LiFePO4 vs. "lithium ion" NMC formulation for ESS is also important to carefully explain to customers--especially since the UN 3480/3481 hazmat shipping labels and regulations group them both into the same category of "Lithium Ion" and that's what stamped and placarded on the box. Ran into this with a floatplane transport situation for a remote location. Had to longline them under a heli a week later on a separate trip with the other dangerous stuff even though they were LiFePO4 and not NMC. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate danbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 1:37 PM Sindelar Solar > wrote: I would start by choosing my lithium technology carefully. I have only installed Blue Ion LiFP batteries, and have relied on Blue Planet's assurances that lithium ferrous sulfate technology is non-flammable and thus safe in residential applications. Allan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Mar 12 21:07:38 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 18:07:38 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery fires In-Reply-To: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> References: <003301d8364d$565ae9d0$0310bd70$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Lithium batteries are not all the same, any battery having cobalt, magnesium, manganese are some of what will start fires, batteries with Phosphate does not have the same fire possibilities. On Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 12:11 PM Dana Orzel wrote: > > https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/massive-cargo-ship-carrying-electric-cars-sinks-in-atlantic-ocean-after-fire > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw > > NTSB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eS6JzBn0k > > > > Without trying to be a fear monger but definitely concerned as an > installer – > > > > This ship caught fire carrying both conventional & electric vehicles & Sank > > On this note and various numerous U-tube videos of lithium car fires, > Should we be concerned with installing lithium batteries in homes? > > What would our liability be in the event of a home fire? > > Ours or the manufacturer? > > What would happen to our liability insurance rates if there is a rash of > fires? > > > > Any thoughts as we all install more lithium batteries in homes? > > > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Mar 12 21:51:53 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 18:51:53 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery placement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have systems with the batteries in living spaces, depends more on the JHA, They are fire rated On Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 2:43 PM Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: > Just out of curiosity, does Blue Planet allow for the placement of their > Blue Ion battery in residential living spaces? > > marco > > On Saturday, March 12, 2022, Sindelar Solar > wrote: > >> I would start by choosing my lithium technology carefully. I have only >> installed Blue Ion LiFP batteries, and have relied on Blue Planet's >> assurances that lithium ferrous sulfate technology is non-flammable and >> thus safe in residential applications. >> Allan >> >> On 3/12/2022 1:11 PM, Dana Orzel wrote: >> >> >> https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/massive-cargo-ship-carrying-electric-cars-sinks-in-atlantic-ocean-after-fire >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw >> >> NTSB video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6eS6JzBn0k >> >> >> >> Without trying to be a fear monger but definitely concerned as an >> installer – >> >> >> >> This ship caught fire carrying both conventional & electric vehicles & >> Sank >> >> On this note and various numerous U-tube videos of lithium car fires, >> Should we be concerned with installing lithium batteries in homes? >> >> What would our liability be in the event of a home fire? >> >> Ours or the manufacturer? >> >> What would happen to our liability insurance rates if there is a rash of >> fires? >> >> >> >> Any thoughts as we all install more lithium batteries in homes? >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> -- >> >> *Allan Sindelar* >> allan at sindelarsolar.com >> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician >> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. >> *505 780-2738 cell* >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sun Mar 13 18:11:36 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 15:11:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties Message-ID: Wrenches, Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. Thanks, Michael -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allan at sindelarsolar.com Sun Mar 13 22:10:37 2022 From: allan at sindelarsolar.com (Allan Sindelar) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 20:10:37 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0695361F-7E05-48EB-82E2-A204C8D761CB@sindelarsolar.com> Michael, I have had no known failures with Hellerman-Tyton’s line, which is quite extensive. Allan > On Mar 13, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Michael Morningstar wrote: > >  > Wrenches, > Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. > Thanks, > Michael > > -- > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > 530-921-0560 > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Mon Mar 14 12:29:48 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 11:29:48 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0EBC566A-1ECD-4084-9679-961815A09E58@mavericksolar.com> We’ve had great luck with the Thomas & Betts Ty-Rap brand UV resistant nylon with stainless steel locking tab. 11” and 14” are handy. Also, for highly exposed areas , the Commercial Electric 11” Stainless Steel cable tie works wonders. For wire management along rails of bundled PV cable, we use one-hole 1/2” and 3/4” EMT pipe straps with self tapping screws to keep wires from dangling. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Mar 13, 2022, at 5:12 PM, Michael Morningstar wrote: > >  > Wrenches, > Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. > Thanks, > Michael > > -- > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > 530-921-0560 > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Mon Mar 14 12:43:11 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:43:11 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: <0EBC566A-1ECD-4084-9679-961815A09E58@mavericksolar.com> References: <0EBC566A-1ECD-4084-9679-961815A09E58@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: I'm partial to Heyco Sunbundlers which are PVC coated stainless cable ties: https://www.heyco.com/Solar_Power_Components/product.cfm?product=Sunbundler-Cable-Ties We try to do the majority of our wire management with stainless S-clips mounted on module frames or rail mounted C-shaped clips. Cable ties are used sparingly for final runs into J-boxes etc. I don't know how much better the good quality plastic ties are (made by the likes of HellermannTyton or Panuit) compared to lower cost hardware store varieties. We've found regular Home Depot type plastic cable ties last about 10 to 15 years under modules in the Bay Area. August Luminalt On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 9:29 AM Maverick Brown wrote: > We’ve had great luck with the Thomas & Betts Ty-Rap brand UV resistant > nylon with stainless steel locking tab. 11” and 14” are handy. > > Also, for highly exposed areas , the Commercial Electric 11” Stainless > Steel cable tie works wonders. > > For wire management along rails of bundled PV cable, we use one-hole 1/2” > and 3/4” EMT pipe straps with self tapping screws to keep wires from > dangling. > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Mar 13, 2022, at 5:12 PM, Michael Morningstar > wrote: > >  > Wrenches, > Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire > management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality > high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. > Thanks, > Michael > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Mon Mar 14 13:19:40 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 11:19:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like Sunbundlers too, but you have to be careful - I’ve seen them pulled too tight to the point where the crimp is digging into conductor insulation, especially when the weight of the wire is on the crimp. Brian > On Mar 14, 2022, at 10:43 AM, August Goers wrote: > >  > I'm partial to Heyco Sunbundlers which are PVC coated stainless cable ties: > > https://www.heyco.com/Solar_Power_Components/product.cfm?product=Sunbundler-Cable-Ties > > We try to do the majority of our wire management with stainless S-clips mounted on module frames or rail mounted C-shaped clips. Cable ties are used sparingly for final runs into J-boxes etc. > > I don't know how much better the good quality plastic ties are (made by the likes of HellermannTyton or Panuit) compared to lower cost hardware store varieties. We've found regular Home Depot type plastic cable ties last about 10 to 15 years under modules in the Bay Area. > > August > Luminalt > > >> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 9:29 AM Maverick Brown wrote: >> We’ve had great luck with the Thomas & Betts Ty-Rap brand UV resistant nylon with stainless steel locking tab. 11” and 14” are handy. >> >> Also, for highly exposed areas , the Commercial Electric 11” Stainless Steel cable tie works wonders. >> >> For wire management along rails of bundled PV cable, we use one-hole 1/2” and 3/4” EMT pipe straps with self tapping screws to keep wires from dangling. >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. >> • Solar Commander Remote Power >> • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection >> maverick at mavericksolar.com >> 512-460-9825 >> >> >>>> On Mar 13, 2022, at 5:12 PM, Michael Morningstar wrote: >>>> >>>  >>> Wrenches, >>> Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. >>> Thanks, >>> Michael >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Morningstar >>> >>> Morningstar Electric >>> PO Box 1494 >>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >>> 530-921-0560 >>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From autonomousenergies at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 13:48:00 2022 From: autonomousenergies at gmail.com (AE Solar) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 13:48:00 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites Message-ID: Wrenchers, We have a project on a large property, where the install site has no internet (there is internet much further away on the property, and on a different service) and cell reception is pretty bad. We attempted to use SMA Cell Modem Kits (sunny boy inverters), but couldn't get a good enough signal for them to work. The client was fine with having just a production meter with no internet based monitoring. Now there is the possibility of expanding the system quite a bit (also with Sunny Boy's), and I'd prefer to figure out a way to monitor everything from offsite. Has anyone had any success using a third party antenna with the SMA Cell Modem Kits? Or have thoughts on other methods for setting up monitoring where we could, at a minimum, see the combined output of all the inverters? Thanks for any thoughts. Adam Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Mar 14 14:08:41 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 14:08:41 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Adam, I have had good luck in the past setting up a wireless bridge. You will need an outlet at the array to power the radio there, but these things can work over long distances as long as there is line of sight. In the past, I have used the Engenius ENH202. They often would even make the wifi signal strong enough that the SMA inverter internal wifi could pick it up without a second radio at the array (and sometimes with the radio mounted inside the house). Unfortunately this product no longer exists. I have used some of the TP-link CPE210, but they are not nearly as strong as the Engenius one, and always need to get mounted outside. I would also be curious to hear what models others have tried. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 1:48 PM AE Solar wrote: > Wrenchers, > We have a project on a large property, where the install site has no > internet (there is internet much further away on the property, and on a > different service) and cell reception is pretty bad. We attempted to use > SMA Cell Modem Kits (sunny boy inverters), but couldn't get a good enough > signal for them to work. The client was fine with having just a production > meter with no internet based monitoring. Now there is the possibility of > expanding the system quite a bit (also with Sunny Boy's), and I'd prefer to > figure out a way to monitor everything from offsite. Has anyone had > any success using a third party antenna with the SMA Cell Modem Kits? Or > have thoughts on other methods for setting up monitoring where we could, at > a minimum, see the combined output of all the inverters? Thanks for any > thoughts. > Adam > > Adam Katzman (he/him) > Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator > www.AutonomousEnergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgsrenewables at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:30:51 2022 From: sgsrenewables at gmail.com (Luke Christy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 12:30:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <923BD856-5D72-41DE-B0E8-40F15E6B3E5B@gmail.com> Adam, I would second Dave’s suggestion to use wireless bridges for this application -if hardwired internet access is available elsewhere on the property and if there is decent line of sight access between that point and where your equipment lives. I have used a lot of Ubiquiti Litebeam point-to-point links for this sort of thing and they are awesome. They have given me rock solid dependability once they are set up and configured, they function just like a virtual ethernet cable over the radio link, and you can even have a single access point transmit to multiple stations. Range for the entry-level Litebeam M5 unit is up to 10km and you can get a pre-configured pair of antenna dishes on Amazon for less than $200. Two devices can be had for around $100 if you are willing to configure them yourself with a laptop or the UISP app from Ubiquiti. Worth checking out. Other versions are available with longer range and more features but I have found the Litebeam M5 is very affordable and works well for most shorter-range applications. Luke Christy Renewable energy consultant. NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 SGSRenewables at Gmail.com 719.588.3044 > On Mar 14, 2022, at 11:48 AM, AE Solar wrote: > > Wrenchers, > We have a project on a large property, where the install site has no internet (there is internet much further away on the property, and on a different service) and cell reception is pretty bad. We attempted to use SMA Cell Modem Kits (sunny boy inverters), but couldn't get a good enough signal for them to work. The client was fine with having just a production meter with no internet based monitoring. Now there is the possibility of expanding the system quite a bit (also with Sunny Boy's), and I'd prefer to figure out a way to monitor everything from offsite. Has anyone had any success using a third party antenna with the SMA Cell Modem Kits? Or have thoughts on other methods for setting up monitoring where we could, at a minimum, see the combined output of all the inverters? Thanks for any thoughts. > Adam > > Adam Katzman (he/him) > Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator > www.AutonomousEnergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Mar 14 14:38:51 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 14:38:51 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: <923BD856-5D72-41DE-B0E8-40F15E6B3E5B@gmail.com> References: <923BD856-5D72-41DE-B0E8-40F15E6B3E5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Luke, I wanted to try out Ubiquiti products, and bought a NanoStation M2, but haven't installed it yet. With the Lighbeam, can any device connect to it? If so, I know at least the SMA SB wifi can only connect to 2Ghz, and not 5Ghz. I'll have to see if there is a 2Ghz option. This is why I cannot use the Engenius equipment anymore, since their 202 replacement is 5Ghz only. Cheers, Dave On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:28 PM Luke Christy wrote: > Adam, > I would second Dave’s suggestion to use wireless bridges for this > application -if hardwired internet access is available elsewhere on the > property and if there is decent line of sight access between that point and > where your equipment lives. > > I have used a lot of Ubiquiti Litebeam point-to-point links for this sort > of thing and they are awesome. They have given me rock solid dependability > once they are set up and configured, they function just like a virtual > ethernet cable over the radio link, and you can even have a single access > point transmit to multiple stations. Range for the entry-level Litebeam M5 > unit is up to 10km and you can get a pre-configured pair of antenna dishes > on Amazon for less than $200. Two devices can be had for around $100 if you > are willing to configure them yourself with a laptop or the UISP app from > Ubiquiti. Worth checking out. Other versions are available with longer > range and more features but I have found the Litebeam M5 is very affordable > and works well for most shorter-range applications. > > > Luke Christy > > Renewable energy consultant. > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: > > Solar Gain Services, LLC > PO Box 531 > Monte Vista, CO. 81144 > SGSRenewables at Gmail.com > 719.588.3044 > > > On Mar 14, 2022, at 11:48 AM, AE Solar > wrote: > > Wrenchers, > We have a project on a large property, where the install site has no > internet (there is internet much further away on the property, and on a > different service) and cell reception is pretty bad. We attempted to use > SMA Cell Modem Kits (sunny boy inverters), but couldn't get a good enough > signal for them to work. The client was fine with having just a production > meter with no internet based monitoring. Now there is the possibility of > expanding the system quite a bit (also with Sunny Boy's), and I'd prefer to > figure out a way to monitor everything from offsite. Has anyone had > any success using a third party antenna with the SMA Cell Modem Kits? Or > have thoughts on other methods for setting up monitoring where we could, at > a minimum, see the combined output of all the inverters? Thanks for any > thoughts. > Adam > > Adam Katzman (he/him) > Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator > www.AutonomousEnergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:52:31 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 12:52:31 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: <923BD856-5D72-41DE-B0E8-40F15E6B3E5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: I concur with Luke Christy below - I have had great success with Ubiquiti wireless bridges. If the line of sight is not completely clear, their 2 and 5gHz dishes can be problematic, but their 900mHz flat panels will work through a moderate amount of vegetation. I'm using that one to write this email right now in fact, have not had to touch or reboot anything in 4 years. Note that they are *not* wifi extenders, you need another wifi router on the other end connected to the far side of the bridge. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 12:39 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Luke, > I wanted to try out Ubiquiti products, and bought a NanoStation M2, but > haven't installed it yet. With the Lighbeam, can any device connect to it? > If so, I know at least the SMA SB wifi can only connect to 2Ghz, and not > 5Ghz. I'll have to see if there is a 2Ghz option. This is why I cannot use > the Engenius equipment anymore, since their 202 replacement is 5Ghz only. > Cheers, > Dave > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:28 PM Luke Christy > wrote: > >> Adam, >> I would second Dave’s suggestion to use wireless bridges for this >> application -if hardwired internet access is available elsewhere on the >> property and if there is decent line of sight access between that point and >> where your equipment lives. >> >> I have used a lot of Ubiquiti Litebeam point-to-point links for this sort >> of thing and they are awesome. They have given me rock solid dependability >> once they are set up and configured, they function just like a virtual >> ethernet cable over the radio link, and you can even have a single access >> point transmit to multiple stations. Range for the entry-level Litebeam M5 >> unit is up to 10km and you can get a pre-configured pair of antenna dishes >> on Amazon for less than $200. Two devices can be had for around $100 if you >> are willing to configure them yourself with a laptop or the UISP app from >> Ubiquiti. Worth checking out. Other versions are available with longer >> range and more features but I have found the Litebeam M5 is very affordable >> and works well for most shorter-range applications. >> >> >> Luke Christy >> >> Renewable energy consultant. >> >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: >> >> Solar Gain Services, LLC >> PO Box 531 >> Monte Vista, CO. 81144 >> SGSRenewables at Gmail.com >> 719.588.3044 >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Mar 14 14:53:08 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 11:53:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael: I recommend avoiding cables ties behind PV panels, either roof or ground mount. With the proper racking and technique none should be required. See photo below: [image: cid:image001.jpg at 01D83799.96A06E50] This panel will lay down without any cable sag or need to reach under to apply cable ties. We call this the hinge technique—all cables are lead to a hinge point with just the right amount of slack to allow pinch and sag free installation. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:12 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties Wrenches, Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. Thanks, Michael -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com [image: https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1b-LBqVnDNhKvT0Y-8fGS4zE62U6pMrsz&export=download] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 144091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 11307 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 14 15:57:56 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 15:57:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm with William on this one. We use stainless PV cable clips and the Quickmount PV stainless PV clips that fit QRail or IronRidge. I forbid plastic cable ties on the roof except for the temporary positioning of wires. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 3:28 PM William Miller wrote: > Michael: > > > > I recommend avoiding cables ties behind PV panels, either roof or ground > mount. With the proper racking and technique none should be required. See > photo below: > > > > [image: cid:image001.jpg at 01D83799.96A06E50] > > > > This panel will lay down without any cable sag or need to reach under to > apply cable ties. We call this the hinge technique—all cables are lead to > a hinge point with just the right amount of slack to allow pinch and sag > free installation. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar > *Sent:* Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:12 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties > > > > Wrenches, > > Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire > management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality > high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. > > Thanks, > > Michael > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > [image: > https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1b-LBqVnDNhKvT0Y-8fGS4zE62U6pMrsz&export=download] > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 144091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 11307 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Mar 14 15:48:55 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 12:48:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for SnapNRack 100 series splices Message-ID: <2314956087e3f13009d69328670069b1@mail.gmail.com> Friends: When Snap N Rack discontinued the 100 series rail I was able to secure a quantity of rail stock before it all disappeared. Module mounting clips are still available because the new UR rail has the same top profile. What I have run out of and cannot find more of is the 100 series splices. See image below. If any of you have stranded stock of these splices I would be happy to pay a reasonable price plus shipping to acquire whatever quantity you can spare. Thanks in advance, and please contact me off-line. Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 19896 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sgsrenewables at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 16:39:54 2022 From: sgsrenewables at gmail.com (Luke Christy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 14:39:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: <923BD856-5D72-41DE-B0E8-40F15E6B3E5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dave- As Dan pointed out, the Litebeam products are not wifi extenders. They must be used in pairs or other multi-device arrangements. Put simply, they allow you to transfer a hard ethernet connection wirelessly through a 5ghz radio link. One nice thing about them is that they function exactly like an ethernet cable when it comes to connections, so you can simply plug in a device at the far end of the link to use as a 2.4gHz access point for your SMA inverters. Your Nanostation M2 would be idea to connect to the far end of the Litebeam link to provide a 2.4gHz wireless access point there. I have used all sorts of solutions for wireless access at the far end of my radio links. Standard household wireless routers reconfigured to not use DHCP work fine as a wireless access point in most cases. I have also used lots of Ubiquiti Unifi AP devices as access points and those are better because you can set them up with a laptop and they are much more reliable than a low-end residential wireless router. They are pricier though and a little fussy to set up. > On Mar 14, 2022, at 12:38 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote: > > Luke, > I wanted to try out Ubiquiti products, and bought a NanoStation M2, but haven't installed it yet. With the Lighbeam, can any device connect to it? If so, I know at least the SMA SB wifi can only connect to 2Ghz, and not 5Ghz. I'll have to see if there is a 2Ghz option. This is why I cannot use the Engenius equipment anymore, since their 202 replacement is 5Ghz only. > Cheers, > Dave > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:28 PM Luke Christy > wrote: > Adam, > I would second Dave’s suggestion to use wireless bridges for this application -if hardwired internet access is available elsewhere on the property and if there is decent line of sight access between that point and where your equipment lives. > > I have used a lot of Ubiquiti Litebeam point-to-point links for this sort of thing and they are awesome. They have given me rock solid dependability once they are set up and configured, they function just like a virtual ethernet cable over the radio link, and you can even have a single access point transmit to multiple stations. Range for the entry-level Litebeam M5 unit is up to 10km and you can get a pre-configured pair of antenna dishes on Amazon for less than $200. Two devices can be had for around $100 if you are willing to configure them yourself with a laptop or the UISP app from Ubiquiti. Worth checking out. Other versions are available with longer range and more features but I have found the Litebeam M5 is very affordable and works well for most shorter-range applications. > > > Luke Christy > > Renewable energy consultant. > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: > > Solar Gain Services, LLC > PO Box 531 > Monte Vista, CO. 81144 > SGSRenewables at Gmail.com > 719.588.3044 > > >> On Mar 14, 2022, at 11:48 AM, AE Solar > wrote: >> >> Wrenchers, >> We have a project on a large property, where the install site has no internet (there is internet much further away on the property, and on a different service) and cell reception is pretty bad. We attempted to use SMA Cell Modem Kits (sunny boy inverters), but couldn't get a good enough signal for them to work. The client was fine with having just a production meter with no internet based monitoring. Now there is the possibility of expanding the system quite a bit (also with Sunny Boy's), and I'd prefer to figure out a way to monitor everything from offsite. Has anyone had any success using a third party antenna with the SMA Cell Modem Kits? Or have thoughts on other methods for setting up monitoring where we could, at a minimum, see the combined output of all the inverters? Thanks for any thoughts. >> Adam >> >> Adam Katzman (he/him) >> Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator >> www.AutonomousEnergies.com >> (518) 567-1468 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Mon Mar 14 17:38:53 2022 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 17:38:53 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <035601d837eb$e8b30c00$ba192400$@glbcc.com> I have also been able to use a Yagi antenna and the proper cable to acquire 2.4GHz WiFi from a remote source. My work has been with Fronius inverters, but I would imagine SMA would be similar. They also have parabolic dishes with higher gain L-Com is where I get them from. A couple of advantages here – no programming and no active powered parts. -Glenn From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of AE Solar Sent: Monday, March 14, 2022 1:48 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites Wrenchers, We have a project on a large property, where the install site has no internet (there is internet much further away on the property, and on a different service) and cell reception is pretty bad. We attempted to use SMA Cell Modem Kits (sunny boy inverters), but couldn't get a good enough signal for them to work. The client was fine with having just a production meter with no internet based monitoring. Now there is the possibility of expanding the system quite a bit (also with Sunny Boy's), and I'd prefer to figure out a way to monitor everything from offsite. Has anyone had any success using a third party antenna with the SMA Cell Modem Kits? Or have thoughts on other methods for setting up monitoring where we could, at a minimum, see the combined output of all the inverters? Thanks for any thoughts. Adam Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Mon Mar 14 17:58:21 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 15:58:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: <035601d837eb$e8b30c00$ba192400$@glbcc.com> References: <035601d837eb$e8b30c00$ba192400$@glbcc.com> Message-ID: Adam, What kind of distance between the inverters and the existing internet connection? Is there line of sight between the two? Is there an electrical panel at the inverters that would allow you to install a low amperage AC circuit for powering comms devices? Folks have made some good suggestions so far regarding building wireless bridges or using a directional (yagi) antenna to beam a wireless but depending on distance and line of sight these options may not be possible. I have successfully installed both of these options but the devil is in the details as to whether it will work. Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Mon Mar 14 18:00:41 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 22:00:41 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: <035601d837eb$e8b30c00$ba192400$@glbcc.com> Message-ID: <6774D07B-C655-46E9-9D3A-90BCBE20C90E@foxfire-energy.com> We’ve had success with Wilson amplifiers and a cell phone modem hotspot Sent from my iPhone On Mar 14, 2022, at 5:58 PM, Sam Haraldson wrote:  Adam, What kind of distance between the inverters and the existing internet connection? Is there line of sight between the two? Is there an electrical panel at the inverters that would allow you to install a low amperage AC circuit for powering comms devices? Folks have made some good suggestions so far regarding building wireless bridges or using a directional (yagi) antenna to beam a wireless but depending on distance and line of sight these options may not be possible. I have successfully installed both of these options but the devil is in the details as to whether it will work. Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/default/images/218965d24e62dbfc42.jpeg?override=1564075269] | o. (406) 551-6135 [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e8855c857.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e8856b4e0.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e88595af2.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e885a04f2.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/default/images/218965d38dc2e92d70.jpeg?override=1564075295] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Mar 14 18:48:00 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 18:48:00 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV Message-ID: Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for their home. The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution that's safe, legal, and functional. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.burt at glbcc.com Mon Mar 14 20:03:35 2022 From: glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 20:03:35 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03e301d83800$1ea847d0$5bf8d770$@glbcc.com> Probably will depend upon the carts voltage. Install an inverter on the cart and a genny socket – then with a regular genny cord and plug set, plug it into the house’s genny outlet. And by the way, can we PLEASE stop using the work CRITICAL when referencing protected or backed up loads? This is absolutely incorrect and because the NEC has specific and strict language and requirements for critical loads, not what we do with PV and ESS! Rant over – but I will continue to press this hot button topic as required! -Glenn From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Monday, March 14, 2022 6:48 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for their home. The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution that's safe, legal, and functional. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarwindworks.com Mon Mar 14 23:33:53 2022 From: chris at solarwindworks.com (Chris Worcester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 20:33:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Our go to "cable ties" have been stainless steel hose clamps with about a 3" length of 600v 3/4" heat shrink pulled over the end before tightening around the rails to secure trunk lines, we also stay away from zip ties. Bulk ordering the 4' lengths of heat shrink and SS hose clamps. Chris Worcester chris at solarwindworks.com530-448-9692Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s9. -------- Original message --------From: Jason Szumlanski Date: 3/14/22 12:58 PM (GMT-08:00) To: william at millersolar.com, RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties I'm with William on this one. We use stainless PV cable clips and the Quickmount PV stainless PV clips that fit QRail or IronRidge. I forbid plastic cable ties on the roof except for the temporary positioning of wires.Jason SzumlanskiFlorida Solar Design GroupOn Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 3:28 PM William Miller wrote:Michael: I recommend avoiding cables ties behind PV panels, either roof or ground mount.  With the proper racking and technique none should be required.  See photo below:  This panel will lay down without any cable sag or need to reach under to apply cable ties.  We call this the hinge technique—all cables are lead to a hinge point with just the right amount of slack to allow pinch and sag free installation. William Miller Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael MorningstarSent: Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:12 PMTo: RE-wrenchesSubject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties Wrenches,Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle.Thanks,Michael -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560mjmorningstar at gmail.com _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 144091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 11307 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Mar 15 12:42:06 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 10:42:06 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Protection on the back side of modules Message-ID: <002d01d8388b$9bd00320$d3700960$@solarwork.com> Quick Q: What are you all doing for a ground mounted array protection for array wiring on the back side of modules, Q-cell G6+ 350 watt. The inspector will except: a fence even just a 2 rail (IMHO pretty worthless) fence or panels? (I do not have source for this) or mesh wire. Any other reasonable ideas? Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Tue Mar 15 12:44:09 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 10:44:09 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Protection on the back side of modules In-Reply-To: <002d01d8388b$9bd00320$d3700960$@solarwork.com> References: <002d01d8388b$9bd00320$d3700960$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Dana, There was some good discussion on this topic recently. Search the archives for: " [RE-wrenches] protecting wire below 8' w/awning array" Cheers, Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Mar 15 12:10:23 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 09:10:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 Water pumping In-Reply-To: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> References: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> Message-ID: Windy: Thanks for the info. I have been in contact with Sun Pumps. They can sell me a pump that will work off of a high voltage battery bank (greater than 90 VDC and likely much higher). However they cannot provide or recommend a charge controller to output PV charge at the higher voltage. Do you or any wrench know of a high voltage charge controller on the market? Thanks in advance. William On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:29 AM Windy Dankoff wrote: > Dear William, > > SunPumps has a new helical rotor submersible series (positive > displacement) that is typically much more efficient for high lift compared > to a normal multi-stage centrifugal sub (you'll have to compare the specs). > > https://www.sunpumps.com/Products/HR%2010-525%20AC%20DC > > I have no inside-knowledge of this item, but it's based on good technology > similar to Lorentz and Grundfos and SunPumps is on the same level as a > world leader. > > With any DC pump, you need to be sure it's compatible with battery power > if you need 24/7. > > I hope you'll let us know how it goes. > > Windy > > > *From: *William Miller > *Subject: **[RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING* > *Date: *March 8, 2022 at 7:53:37 AM MST > *To: *RE-wrenches > *Reply-To: * > > > Friends: > > > I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring > through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that > will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) > > > I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am > wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the > Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. > > > Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? > > > Thanks in advance, > > > William Miller > > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > > > *From: *Jerry Shafer > *Subject: **Re: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING* > *Date: *March 8, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM MST > *To: *William Miller , RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> > > > William > Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump because of the > requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small er output DC pumps but > that is not what you need, first find a AC pump that can do the required 10 > GPM at 300 feet of head then design a inverter to fit that bill PV to > recharge that usage and then some. look at the first and last day of the > desired water demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When > looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but at a cost > so look at options output vs input. I have done this with Grundus and DC > direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top of the property so it can be > done with DC so AC just requires additional nighttime. > Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every night and > a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be done DC direct, > cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can run on a genny if you have > bad weather for days, This is how the ones I have done work. > Jerry > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 13:03:38 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 11:03:38 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Protection on the back side of modules In-Reply-To: <002d01d8388b$9bd00320$d3700960$@solarwork.com> References: <002d01d8388b$9bd00320$d3700960$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: I”ve used this product. You can make it yourself too. http://solarscrim.com jay > On Mar 15, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > Quick Q: What are you all doing for a ground mounted array protection for array wiring on the back side of modules, Q-cell G6+ 350 watt. > The inspector will except: a fence even just a 2 rail (IMHO pretty worthless) fence or panels? (I do not have source for this) or mesh wire. > > Any other reasonable ideas? > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Tue Mar 15 14:18:18 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 11:18:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure what the golf cart fleets are these days but decades ago as a youngster I worked at a course where all the EZ-GO’s were 36v nominal with all Trojan T-105’s. Also uncertain if still available or not but years ago the first Cybo inverters I purchased were also intended for 36v nominal battery banks. Perhaps George and the team still offer that model. It’s obviously a different type of architecture and I didn’t have any luck with the 4 amp 36v charger on the inverter’s AC output that was promoted but surely you could figure your means of charging with perhaps a Flexmax or similar. I had some issues with the hot water heater model but the off grid model consistently performed it’s inverting function assuming there was a fan or some sort of resistive or inductive load to keep the inverter awake. The only other 36v inverter I can think of was the Heart Transverter which was a big loss for a few of us. https://www.cyboenergy.com/products/offgridoverview.html Best of luck Jason, Nick > On Mar 14, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: > > Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for their home. > > The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution that's safe, legal, and functional. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From larry at starlightsolar.com Tue Mar 15 14:19:45 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (larrycrutcher) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 11:19:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 Water pumping In-Reply-To: References: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi William, A charge controller may not be needed if you are running the pump direct. By designing the PV array so that the Isc is higher than the maximum load demands, and the Voc is less than the maximum operating voltage, you can run PV direct without a controller. Use a high voltage relay (like Gigavac) for switching from the float or pressure switch. Charging a high voltage chemical battery direct from PV power is conceivable but much harder. If you can’t find a controller, I would opt to use the pumped water as the battery…pump it high, use gravity. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Mar 15, 2022, at 9:10 AM, William Miller wrote: Windy: Thanks for the info. I have been in contact with Sun Pumps. They can sell me a pump that will work off of a high voltage battery bank (greater than 90 VDC and likely much higher). However they cannot provide or recommend a charge controller to output PV charge at the higher voltage. Do you or any wrench know of a high voltage charge controller on the market? Thanks in advance. William On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:29 AM Windy Dankoff > wrote: Dear William, SunPumps has a new helical rotor submersible series (positive displacement) that is typically much more efficient for high lift compared to a normal multi-stage centrifugal sub (you'll have to compare the specs). https://www.sunpumps.com/Products/HR%2010-525%20AC%20DC I have no inside-knowledge of this item, but it's based on good technology similar to Lorentz and Grundfos and SunPumps is on the same level as a world leader. With any DC pump, you need to be sure it's compatible with battery power if you need 24/7. I hope you'll let us know how it goes. Windy > > From: William Miller > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING > Date: March 8, 2022 at 7:53:37 AM MST > To: RE-wrenches > > Reply-To: > > > > Friends: > > I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) > > I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. > > Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? > > Thanks in advance, > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > From: Jerry Shafer > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING > Date: March 8, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM MST > To: William Miller >, RE-wrenches > > > > William > Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump because of the requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small er output DC pumps but that is not what you need, first find a AC pump that can do the required 10 GPM at 300 feet of head then design a inverter to fit that bill PV to recharge that usage and then some. look at the first and last day of the desired water demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but at a cost so look at options output vs input. I have done this with Grundus and DC direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top of the property so it can be done with DC so AC just requires additional nighttime. > Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every night and a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be done DC direct, cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can run on a genny if you have bad weather for days, This is how the ones I have done work. > Jerry _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 16:07:20 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 14:07:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] APsystems micro inverters In-Reply-To: References: <002d01d8388b$9bd00320$d3700960$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <0B85CDD6-BF65-4C94-A3D6-BAD688E4413A@gmail.com> HI All, Any thoughts about APsystems vs Enphase micro inverters. They have a new DS3 line that looks quite good. Thanks in advance Jay From spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 18:12:45 2022 From: spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com (No Name) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 15:12:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You'll have to relate those stories about Hart's Tansverter to us Nick. . He's been so vocal and self-promotional lately I actually toyed with the idea of purchasing one to put it to the test 😆. . On Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 11:18 AM Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Not sure what the golf cart fleets are these days but decades ago as a > youngster I worked at a course where all the EZ-GO’s were 36v nominal with > all Trojan T-105’s. Also uncertain if still available or not but years ago > the first Cybo inverters I purchased were also intended for 36v nominal > battery banks. Perhaps George and the team still offer that model. It’s > obviously a different type of architecture and I didn’t have any luck with > the 4 amp 36v charger on the inverter’s AC output that was promoted but > surely you could figure your means of charging with perhaps a Flexmax or > similar. I had some issues with the hot water heater model but the off grid > model consistently performed it’s inverting function assuming there was a > fan or some sort of resistive or inductive load to keep the inverter awake. > The only other 36v inverter I can think of was the Heart Transverter which > was a big loss for a few of us. > > https://www.cyboenergy.com/products/offgridoverview.html > > Best of luck Jason, Nick > > > > > > On Mar 14, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > > > > Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and > golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently > mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any > ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be > able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers > trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for > their home. > > > > The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for > home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution > that's safe, legal, and functional. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Florida Solar Design Group > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Mar 15 18:26:41 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 16:26:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 Water pumping In-Reply-To: References: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> Message-ID: The Midnite Classic can go higher to 72v stock, and they have models that can work with 120 vdc batteries. Ray On 3/15/2022 12:19 PM, larrycrutcher wrote: > Hi William, > > A charge controller may not be needed if you are running the pump > direct. By designing the PV array so that the Isc is higher than the > maximum load demands, and the Voc is less than the maximum operating > voltage, you can run PV direct without a controller. Use a high > voltage relay (like Gigavac) for switching from the float or pressure > switch. > > Charging a high voltage chemical battery direct from PV power is > conceivable but much harder. If you can’t find a controller, I would > opt to use the pumped water as the battery…pump it high, use gravity. > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Solar Power Systems > > > > On Mar 15, 2022, at 9:10 AM, William Miller > wrote: > > Windy: > > Thanks for the info. I have been in contact with Sun Pumps. They can > sell me a pump that will work off of a high voltage battery bank > (greater than 90 VDC and likely much higher). However they cannot > provide or recommend a charge controller to output PV charge at the > higher voltage. Do you or any wrench know of a high voltage charge > controller on the market? > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:29 AM Windy Dankoff > wrote: > > Dear William, > > SunPumps has a new helical rotor submersible series (positive > displacement) that is typically much more efficient for high lift > compared to a normal multi-stage centrifugal sub (you'll have to > compare the specs). > > https://www.sunpumps.com/Products/HR%2010-525%20AC%20DC > > I have no inside-knowledge of this item, but it's based on good > technology similar to Lorentz and Grundfos and SunPumps is on the > same level as a world leader. > > With any DC pump, you need to be sure it's compatible with battery > power if you need 24/7. > > I hope you'll let us know how it goes. > > Windy > >> >> *From:*William Miller >> *Subject:**[RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING* >> *Date:*March 8, 2022 at 7:53:37 AM MST >> *To:*RE-wrenches >> *Reply-To:* >> >> >> Friends: >> >> I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from >> spring through autumn equinoxes.   Lift is 300 feet.  (This is >> the project that will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) >> >> I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but >> I am wondering if there is a direct DC option.  I am going to >> look at the Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. >> >> Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this >> project? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> *From:*Jerry Shafer >> *Subject:**Re: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING* >> *Date:*March 8, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM MST >> *To:*William Miller , RE-wrenches >> >> >> >> William >> Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump >> because of the requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small >> er output DC pumps but that is not what you need, first find a AC >> pump that can do the required 10 GPM at 300 feet of head then >> design a inverter to fit that bill PV to recharge that usage and >> then some. look at the first and last day of the desired water >> demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When >> looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but >> at a cost so look at options output vs input. I have done this >> with Grundus and DC direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top >> of the property so it can be done with DC so AC just requires >> additional nighttime. >> Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every >> night and a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be >> done DC direct, cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can >> run on a genny if you have bad weather for days, This is how the >> ones I have done work. >> Jerry > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Mar 15 18:29:33 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 16:29:33 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7d9053c0-1be8-d831-f274-9dc46812df81@solarray.com> Most carts run at 48vdc these days.  They either have eight 6 volt batteries, or six 8 v batteries.  I would think that would make a good match for power backup with a 4kw range inverter like the Magnum MS4448. Ray On 3/15/2022 12:18 PM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Not sure what the golf cart fleets are these days but decades ago as a youngster I worked at a course where all the EZ-GO’s were 36v nominal with all Trojan T-105’s. Also uncertain if still available or not but years ago the first Cybo inverters I purchased were also intended for 36v nominal battery banks. Perhaps George and the team still offer that model. It’s obviously a different type of architecture and I didn’t have any luck with the 4 amp 36v charger on the inverter’s AC output that was promoted but surely you could figure your means of charging with perhaps a Flexmax or similar. I had some issues with the hot water heater model but the off grid model consistently performed it’s inverting function assuming there was a fan or some sort of resistive or inductive load to keep the inverter awake. The only other 36v inverter I can think of was the Heart Transverter which was a big loss for a few of us. > > https://www.cyboenergy.com/products/offgridoverview.html > > Best of luck Jason, Nick > > > > >> On Mar 14, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: >> >> Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for their home. >> >> The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution that's safe, legal, and functional. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Mar 15 18:46:59 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:46:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: <7d9053c0-1be8-d831-f274-9dc46812df81@solarray.com> References: <7d9053c0-1be8-d831-f274-9dc46812df81@solarray.com> Message-ID: That's what I was thinking- a MS4448 would be a nice option with a good surge rating. I'm trying to make this work with little to minimal equipment onboard the golf cart. Ideally, the battery would connect to a stationary inverter/charger at the house via a cable/connector. The PV would be permanently mounted also and would be grid-tied for times the battery is not connected. I am thinking this needs to be an AC coupled scenario with a grid-tie inverter that is AC coupled to the battery inverter. I'm hung up on how to safely connect the battery to the inverter (and more importantly, disconnect the battery from the inverter). Jason On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 6:29 PM Ray Walters wrote: > Most carts run at 48vdc these days. They either have eight 6 volt > batteries, or six 8 v batteries. I would think that would make a good > match for power backup with a 4kw range inverter like the Magnum MS4448. > > Ray > > On 3/15/2022 12:18 PM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > > Not sure what the golf cart fleets are these days but decades ago as a > youngster I worked at a course where all the EZ-GO’s were 36v nominal with > all Trojan T-105’s. Also uncertain if still available or not but years ago > the first Cybo inverters I purchased were also intended for 36v nominal > battery banks. Perhaps George and the team still offer that model. It’s > obviously a different type of architecture and I didn’t have any luck with > the 4 amp 36v charger on the inverter’s AC output that was promoted but > surely you could figure your means of charging with perhaps a Flexmax or > similar. I had some issues with the hot water heater model but the off grid > model consistently performed it’s inverting function assuming there was a > fan or some sort of resistive or inductive load to keep the inverter awake. > The only other 36v inverter I can think of was the Heart Transverter which > was a big loss for a few of us. > > > > https://www.cyboenergy.com/products/offgridoverview.html > > > > Best of luck Jason, Nick > > > > > > > > > >> On Mar 14, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> > >> Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and > golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently > mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any > ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be > able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers > trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for > their home. > >> > >> The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for > home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution > that's safe, legal, and functional. > >> > >> Jason Szumlanski > >> Florida Solar Design Group > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >> > >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Change listserver email address & settings: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out or update participant bios: > >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com Tue Mar 15 19:39:55 2022 From: maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (Kienan Maxfield) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 23:39:55 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties In-Reply-To: <20220315033401.59B58107BAE@pdx1-mailman03.dreamhost.com> References: <20220315033401.59B58107BAE@pdx1-mailman03.dreamhost.com> Message-ID: I'm currently testing GripLockTies. https://griplockties.com/ I really really like them so far. The rubber lining makes it really soft on sensitive wires such as coax, but more importantly, the rubber lining makes it grip really well, so it never slides, and wires don't slide in them. They are thick and really strong... typical breaking point of over 300 lbs, rated for 70 lbs. I haven't found them to get brittle yet... They are UV-rated, but as you say, that doesn't always mean all that much. I've only been testing for a couple of years though. They also are releasable and reusable, which normally doesn't matter, but once in a while, that's really nice. They are mostly manufactured for high-vibration applications like race airplanes where a zip tie failure can result in an engine failure, which can be terrifying if not fatal mid-flight. They were invented by a well-known race airplane and bush-plane builder named Mike Patey. Thanks, Kienan Maxfield Solar maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Chris Worcester Sent: Monday, March 14, 2022 9:33 PM To: RE-wrenches ; william at millersolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties Our go to "cable ties" have been stainless steel hose clamps with about a 3" length of 600v 3/4" heat shrink pulled over the end before tightening around the rails to secure trunk lines, we also stay away from zip ties. Bulk ordering the 4' lengths of heat shrink and SS hose clamps. Chris Worcester chris at solarwindworks.com 530-448-9692 Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s9. -------- Original message -------- From: Jason Szumlanski Date: 3/14/22 12:58 PM (GMT-08:00) To: william at millersolar.com, RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties I'm with William on this one. We use stainless PV cable clips and the Quickmount PV stainless PV clips that fit QRail or IronRidge. I forbid plastic cable ties on the roof except for the temporary positioning of wires. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 3:28 PM William Miller > wrote: Michael: I recommend avoiding cables ties behind PV panels, either roof or ground mount. With the proper racking and technique none should be required. See photo below: [cid:image001.jpg at 01D83799.96A06E50] This panel will lay down without any cable sag or need to reach under to apply cable ties. We call this the hinge technique—all cables are lead to a hinge point with just the right amount of slack to allow pinch and sag free installation. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2022 3:12 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable Ties Wrenches, Who makes the best cable ties, and which part number for under PV wire management? I keep going back to past projects where I used quality high-heat resistant UV rated Panduit and Burndy ties that became brittle. Thanks, Michael -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com [https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1b-LBqVnDNhKvT0Y-8fGS4zE62U6pMrsz&export=download] _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 144091 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 11307 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 21:56:10 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:56:10 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 Message-ID: <156741E2-8B38-4489-AFFA-E0A796E2C733@gmail.com> Here’s a lateral take on this. A 500 gallon poly water tank is far cheaper than the batteries needed to fill it. Years ago I rigged up a seasonal pump system for a man who had two ponds on his property. The lower one was well fed by a spring but the upper one wasn’t. I used a 200 watt DC piston pump and a couple of modules with a linear current booster. A couple of breakers but no batteries. It just chugged away quietly all (moderately sunny) day, filling the upper pond. Using a positive displacement pump is key for minimizing power requirements. At 300 feet that’s about 125 psi, which is not out of line for a piston pump. Fill a big poly tank and pressurize it with a small DC diaphragm pump if necessary. Simple, efficient, cheap. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From hiltondier at gmail.com Tue Mar 15 22:02:14 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 22:02:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water pumping 24/7 addendum Message-ID: <43EF9CC1-BDCA-49EF-AED2-5B93AF184482@gmail.com> Forgot to add: I’m talking about the belt drive piston pumps out there so you can install a low voltage DC motor if you want. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From william at millersolar.com Wed Mar 16 00:16:23 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:16:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 In-Reply-To: <156741E2-8B38-4489-AFFA-E0A796E2C733@gmail.com> References: <156741E2-8B38-4489-AFFA-E0A796E2C733@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6cb68830dbeeed15f3dbea0de6b55fa0@mail.gmail.com> Hilton: A valid point. However in this region wells often do not recharge as well as we might like. In these cases, to meet gallons per day you have to pump long and slow--more hours per day than the sun will be up. That means of course generator or battery storage. The economics have shifted from when I started installing direct-DC water pumping. The money that is being spent today to provide commercial ag water is beyond what I would have comprehended back then. This means new technology--and questions need to be asked, including considering battery storage. Thanks for your reply. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Hilton Dier Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 6:56 PM To: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 Here’s a lateral take on this. A 500 gallon poly water tank is far cheaper than the batteries needed to fill it. Years ago I rigged up a seasonal pump system for a man who had two ponds on his property. The lower one was well fed by a spring but the upper one wasn’t. I used a 200 watt DC piston pump and a couple of modules with a linear current booster. A couple of breakers but no batteries. It just chugged away quietly all (moderately sunny) day, filling the upper pond. Using a positive displacement pump is key for minimizing power requirements. At 300 feet that’s about 125 psi, which is not out of line for a piston pump. Fill a big poly tank and pressurize it with a small DC diaphragm pump if necessary. Simple, efficient, cheap. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From ray at solarray.com Wed Mar 16 02:34:19 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 00:34:19 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: References: <7d9053c0-1be8-d831-f274-9dc46812df81@solarray.com> Message-ID: For disconnects, I'd just use Andersen quick connects.  That's what they use on forklifts and other industrial battery operated machines.  Also, the Magnum would act as the vehicle charger, and would be a much better charger than the stock golf cart models. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 3/15/22 4:46 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: > That's what I was thinking- a MS4448 would be a nice option with a > good surge rating. > > I'm trying to make this work with little to minimal equipment onboard > the golf cart. Ideally, the battery would connect to a > stationary inverter/charger at the house via a cable/connector. The PV > would be permanently mounted also and would be grid-tied for times the > battery is not connected. I am thinking this needs to be an AC coupled > scenario with a grid-tie inverter that is AC coupled to the battery > inverter. I'm hung up on how to safely connect the battery to the > inverter (and more importantly, disconnect the battery from the inverter). > > > Jason > > * > > * > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 6:29 PM Ray Walters wrote: > > Most carts run at 48vdc these days.  They either have eight 6 volt > batteries, or six 8 v batteries.  I would think that would make a > good > match for power backup with a 4kw range inverter like the Magnum > MS4448. > > Ray > > On 3/15/2022 12:18 PM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > > Not sure what the golf cart fleets are these days but decades > ago as a youngster I worked at a course where all the EZ-GO’s were > 36v nominal with all Trojan T-105’s. Also uncertain if still > available or not but years ago the first Cybo inverters I > purchased were also intended for 36v nominal battery banks. > Perhaps George and the team still offer that model. It’s obviously > a different type of architecture and I didn’t have any luck with > the 4 amp 36v charger on the inverter’s AC output that was > promoted but surely you could figure your means of charging with > perhaps a Flexmax or similar. I had some issues with the hot water > heater model but the off grid model consistently performed it’s > inverting function assuming there was a fan or some sort of > resistive or inductive load to keep the inverter awake. The only > other 36v inverter I can think of was the Heart Transverter which > was a big loss for a few of us. > > > > https://www.cyboenergy.com/products/offgridoverview.html > > > > Best of luck Jason, Nick > > > > > > > > > >> On Mar 14, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski > wrote: > >> > >> Every now and then I get questions here in the land of > hurricanes and golf courses about using golf carts as the battery > bank for a permanently mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup > scenario. Does anyone have any ideas on a good way to do something > like this? The battery would need to be able to be unplugged of > course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers trying to > cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for > their home. > >> > >> The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using > EVs for home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even > offer a solution that's safe, legal, and functional. > >> > >> Jason Szumlanski > >> Florida Solar Design Group > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >> > >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> Change listserver email address & settings: > >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out or update participant bios: > >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Mar 16 06:38:14 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 06:38:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: References: <7d9053c0-1be8-d831-f274-9dc46812df81@solarray.com> Message-ID: What happens with a Sol-Ark 12k in grid-tie with battery backup mode when the battery "disappears?" Does it continue to operate in straight grid-tie mode with only AC connected and DC not present? Jason On Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 6:46 PM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > That's what I was thinking- a MS4448 would be a nice option with a good > surge rating. > > I'm trying to make this work with little to minimal equipment onboard the > golf cart. Ideally, the battery would connect to a > stationary inverter/charger at the house via a cable/connector. The PV > would be permanently mounted also and would be grid-tied for times the > battery is not connected. I am thinking this needs to be an AC coupled > scenario with a grid-tie inverter that is AC coupled to the battery > inverter. I'm hung up on how to safely connect the battery to the inverter > (and more importantly, disconnect the battery from the inverter). > > > Jason > > > > > On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 6:29 PM Ray Walters wrote: > >> Most carts run at 48vdc these days. They either have eight 6 volt >> batteries, or six 8 v batteries. I would think that would make a good >> match for power backup with a 4kw range inverter like the Magnum MS4448. >> >> Ray >> >> On 3/15/2022 12:18 PM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: >> > Not sure what the golf cart fleets are these days but decades ago as a >> youngster I worked at a course where all the EZ-GO’s were 36v nominal with >> all Trojan T-105’s. Also uncertain if still available or not but years ago >> the first Cybo inverters I purchased were also intended for 36v nominal >> battery banks. Perhaps George and the team still offer that model. It’s >> obviously a different type of architecture and I didn’t have any luck with >> the 4 amp 36v charger on the inverter’s AC output that was promoted but >> surely you could figure your means of charging with perhaps a Flexmax or >> similar. I had some issues with the hot water heater model but the off grid >> model consistently performed it’s inverting function assuming there was a >> fan or some sort of resistive or inductive load to keep the inverter awake. >> The only other 36v inverter I can think of was the Heart Transverter which >> was a big loss for a few of us. >> > >> > https://www.cyboenergy.com/products/offgridoverview.html >> > >> > Best of luck Jason, Nick >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> On Mar 14, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and >> golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently >> mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any >> ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be >> able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers >> trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for >> their home. >> >> >> >> The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for >> home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution >> that's safe, legal, and functional. >> >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danny at sesre.com Wed Mar 16 09:42:20 2022 From: danny at sesre.com (Daniel Young) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 13:42:20 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV In-Reply-To: References: <7d9053c0-1be8-d831-f274-9dc46812df81@solarray.com> Message-ID: Jason, this is the solution I was also thinking about bringing up. I wonder if it would require a change in programming every time the battery was disconnected/reconnected. If it does need a program change, that makes it much less desirable. But it could still work. The DIY/ system cobbling type might not be opposed to changing the programming when/if the need arises to switch to battery mode. Slight tangent: A youtuber named Will Prowse did a variation on this, using a lithium battery pack in the golf car, and he mounted an All-In-One Chinese inverter (MPPT brand, but similar to Sol-Ark/ Grow Watt) in the golf cart to be the battery charger, and mobile power source in a relatively lightweight package. He is very much in line with the DIY/cobble it together type demographic: Just look for Will Prowse Golf Cart on youtube. Worth a look during lunch time at least😊 -- Danny Young Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 6:38 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart as temporary off-grid PV What happens with a Sol-Ark 12k in grid-tie with battery backup mode when the battery "disappears?" Does it continue to operate in straight grid-tie mode with only AC connected and DC not present? Jason On Tue, Mar 15, 2022, 6:46 PM Jason Szumlanski > wrote: That's what I was thinking- a MS4448 would be a nice option with a good surge rating. I'm trying to make this work with little to minimal equipment onboard the golf cart. Ideally, the battery would connect to a stationary inverter/charger at the house via a cable/connector. The PV would be permanently mounted also and would be grid-tied for times the battery is not connected. I am thinking this needs to be an AC coupled scenario with a grid-tie inverter that is AC coupled to the battery inverter. I'm hung up on how to safely connect the battery to the inverter (and more importantly, disconnect the battery from the inverter). Jason On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 6:29 PM Ray Walters > wrote: Most carts run at 48vdc these days. They either have eight 6 volt batteries, or six 8 v batteries. I would think that would make a good match for power backup with a 4kw range inverter like the Magnum MS4448. Ray On 3/15/2022 12:18 PM, Nick A Lucchese wrote: > Not sure what the golf cart fleets are these days but decades ago as a youngster I worked at a course where all the EZ-GO’s were 36v nominal with all Trojan T-105’s. Also uncertain if still available or not but years ago the first Cybo inverters I purchased were also intended for 36v nominal battery banks. Perhaps George and the team still offer that model. It’s obviously a different type of architecture and I didn’t have any luck with the 4 amp 36v charger on the inverter’s AC output that was promoted but surely you could figure your means of charging with perhaps a Flexmax or similar. I had some issues with the hot water heater model but the off grid model consistently performed it’s inverting function assuming there was a fan or some sort of resistive or inductive load to keep the inverter awake. The only other 36v inverter I can think of was the Heart Transverter which was a big loss for a few of us. > > https://www.cyboenergy.com/products/offgridoverview.html > > Best of luck Jason, Nick > > > > >> On Mar 14, 2022, at 3:48 PM, Jason Szumlanski > wrote: >> >> Every now and then I get questions here in the land of hurricanes and golf courses about using golf carts as the battery bank for a permanently mounted grid-tie home PV system in a backup scenario. Does anyone have any ideas on a good way to do something like this? The battery would need to be able to be unplugged of course (not under load I hope!) It's mostly DIY'ers trying to cobble together a solution for a small critical load panel for their home. >> >> The idea is becoming more popular as people hear about using EVs for home backup. I'd like to get ahead of it and maybe even offer a solution that's safe, legal, and functional. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex at sunforgellc.com Wed Mar 16 11:48:24 2022 From: alex at sunforgellc.com (Alex MeVay) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 08:48:24 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 Water pumping In-Reply-To: References: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> Message-ID: For high-voltage MPPT charge controllers, you might check out some of the Australian brands (I remember AERL being one). It seems there are some differences in code there that don't result in the de facto 48Vdc limit we have here in the states. Incidentally, we had a product in that space (up to 144Vdc) about a decade back, but it was essentially killed when the government tabled the subsidies. These were replacing gensets at cattle stations where the roads were too muddy to haul diesel down for 6 months of the year. The economics were still phenomenal without subsidies, but of course, everyone just stopped doing the solar installs waiting to see if the subsidies came back. Sigh... Alex MeVay Genasun * Blue Sky Energy * http://sunforgellc.com On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 3:26 PM Ray Walters wrote: > > The Midnite Classic can go higher to 72v stock, and they have models that can work with 120 vdc batteries. > > Ray > > On 3/15/2022 12:19 PM, larrycrutcher wrote: > > Hi William, > > A charge controller may not be needed if you are running the pump direct. By designing the PV array so that the Isc is higher than the maximum load demands, and the Voc is less than the maximum operating voltage, you can run PV direct without a controller. Use a high voltage relay (like Gigavac) for switching from the float or pressure switch. > > Charging a high voltage chemical battery direct from PV power is conceivable but much harder. If you can’t find a controller, I would opt to use the pumped water as the battery…pump it high, use gravity. > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Solar Power Systems > > > > On Mar 15, 2022, at 9:10 AM, William Miller wrote: > > Windy: > > Thanks for the info. I have been in contact with Sun Pumps. They can sell me a pump that will work off of a high voltage battery bank (greater than 90 VDC and likely much higher). However they cannot provide or recommend a charge controller to output PV charge at the higher voltage. Do you or any wrench know of a high voltage charge controller on the market? > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:29 AM Windy Dankoff wrote: >> >> Dear William, >> >> SunPumps has a new helical rotor submersible series (positive displacement) that is typically much more efficient for high lift compared to a normal multi-stage centrifugal sub (you'll have to compare the specs). >> >> https://www.sunpumps.com/Products/HR%2010-525%20AC%20DC >> >> I have no inside-knowledge of this item, but it's based on good technology similar to Lorentz and Grundfos and SunPumps is on the same level as a world leader. >> >> With any DC pump, you need to be sure it's compatible with battery power if you need 24/7. >> >> I hope you'll let us know how it goes. >> >> Windy >> >> >> From: William Miller >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING >> Date: March 8, 2022 at 7:53:37 AM MST >> To: RE-wrenches >> Reply-To: >> >> >> Friends: >> >> >> >> I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) >> >> >> >> I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. >> >> >> >> Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Jerry Shafer >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING >> Date: March 8, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM MST >> To: William Miller , RE-wrenches >> >> >> William >> Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump because of the requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small er output DC pumps but that is not what you need, first find a AC pump that can do the required 10 GPM at 300 feet of head then design a inverter to fit that bill PV to recharge that usage and then some. look at the first and last day of the desired water demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but at a cost so look at options output vs input. I have done this with Grundus and DC direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top of the property so it can be done with DC so AC just requires additional nighttime. >> Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every night and a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be done DC direct, cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can run on a genny if you have bad weather for days, This is how the ones I have done work. >> Jerry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From autonomousenergies at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 13:22:21 2022 From: autonomousenergies at gmail.com (AE Solar) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 13:22:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: <6774D07B-C655-46E9-9D3A-90BCBE20C90E@foxfire-energy.com> References: <035601d837eb$e8b30c00$ba192400$@glbcc.com> <6774D07B-C655-46E9-9D3A-90BCBE20C90E@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: Hey all, Thanks for all the good info and sorry for the slow reply. I meant to mention in the first post that line of sight is an issue. It’s probably a quarter mile (maybe less) through forested terrain to the nearest building on the property that has WiFi. There is also a decent elevation change (the array is uphill from the building…maybe 40’ of difference in elevation?) To answer Sam’s questions, we could put AC at each inverter if that needed to happen. Maybe since line of sight is an issue, Glenn’s suggestion of looking into a Yagi antenna is best place to start? Adam Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 6:00 PM Foxfire Energy wrote: > We’ve had success with Wilson amplifiers and a cell phone modem hotspot > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 14, 2022, at 5:58 PM, Sam Haraldson > wrote: > >  > Adam, > > What kind of distance between the inverters and the existing internet > connection? Is there line of sight between the two? Is there an > electrical panel at the inverters that would allow you to install a low > amperage AC circuit for powering comms devices? Folks have made some good > suggestions so far regarding building wireless bridges or using a > directional (yagi) antenna to beam a wireless but depending on distance and > line of sight these options may not be possible. I have successfully > installed both of these options but the devil is in the details as to > whether it will work. > Sam Haraldson > Installation & Service Manager > > > > | o. (406) 551-6135 > > > > > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Mar 16 13:37:34 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 13:37:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: <035601d837eb$e8b30c00$ba192400$@glbcc.com> <6774D07B-C655-46E9-9D3A-90BCBE20C90E@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: The lower the frequency, the less it will be affected by the trees. I've sent the 2.4GHZ radios through some trees before with no issues, but I have not tried a quarter mile. I would not be concerned about the elevation change though as long as you don't have to go through earth with the line between the radios. Cheers, Dave On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:22 PM AE Solar wrote: > Hey all, > > Thanks for all the good info and sorry for the slow reply. I meant to > mention in the first post that line of sight is an issue. It’s probably a > quarter mile (maybe less) through forested terrain to the nearest building > on the property that has WiFi. There is also a decent elevation change (the > array is uphill from the building…maybe 40’ of difference in elevation?) > > > > To answer Sam’s questions, we could put AC at each inverter if that needed > to happen. Maybe since line of sight is an issue, Glenn’s suggestion of > looking into a Yagi antenna is best place to start? > > Adam > > > Adam Katzman (he/him) > Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator > www.AutonomousEnergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 6:00 PM Foxfire Energy > wrote: > >> We’ve had success with Wilson amplifiers and a cell phone modem hotspot >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Mar 14, 2022, at 5:58 PM, Sam Haraldson >> wrote: >> >>  >> Adam, >> >> What kind of distance between the inverters and the existing internet >> connection? Is there line of sight between the two? Is there an >> electrical panel at the inverters that would allow you to install a low >> amperage AC circuit for powering comms devices? Folks have made some good >> suggestions so far regarding building wireless bridges or using a >> directional (yagi) antenna to beam a wireless but depending on distance and >> line of sight these options may not be possible. I have successfully >> installed both of these options but the devil is in the details as to >> whether it will work. >> Sam Haraldson >> Installation & Service Manager >> >> >> >> | o. (406) 551-6135 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Mar 16 15:38:10 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 15:38:10 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ironridge BOSS splice Message-ID: Hi All, I am looking through the installation manual for Ironridge racking and noticed this: -------- BOSS - Bonded Structual Splice Insert BOSS into first Rail up until the Stop Tab. Slide second Rail fully into place. ➢ Rows using Classic Splice or BOSS and exceeding 100 feet of Rail must use Expansion Joints. ➢ Boss Splices may be installed in any location within a span. ➢ *UFO and Bonding Hardware must be installed 1" away from the point wheretwo Rails join together.* *------* I put the third bullet point in bold. Is this saying that you need to ensure that the splice ends up essentially right where two modules meet? Or are they talking about for an expansion joint only? Needing to plan out the exact splice locations and cut every rail to the right length seems to make these splices way more difficult to work with than the normal splice, so I don't get why anyone would use them. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danny at sesre.com Wed Mar 16 16:08:28 2022 From: danny at sesre.com (Daniel Young) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 20:08:28 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ironridge BOSS splice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My read on that is that the splice needs to be anywhere EXCEPT where two modules meet, so for every 40” nominal module width, there is a 2” exclusion zone (5% of the module width), so there is a 95% chance a random splice placement will be in a good place. Basically they don’t want mid clamps right on the splice. -- Danny Young Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dave Tedeyan Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 3:38 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ironridge BOSS splice Hi All, I am looking through the installation manual for Ironridge racking and noticed this: -------- BOSS - Bonded Structual Splice Insert BOSS into first Rail up until the Stop Tab. Slide second Rail fully into place. ➢ Rows using Classic Splice or BOSS and exceeding 100 feet of Rail must use Expansion Joints. ➢ Boss Splices may be installed in any location within a span. ➢ UFO and Bonding Hardware must be installed 1" away from the point where two Rails join together. ------ I put the third bullet point in bold. Is this saying that you need to ensure that the splice ends up essentially right where two modules meet? Or are they talking about for an expansion joint only? Needing to plan out the exact splice locations and cut every rail to the right length seems to make these splices way more difficult to work with than the normal splice, so I don't get why anyone would use them. Cheers, Dave -- [Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Mar 16 16:24:16 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 16:24:16 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ironridge BOSS splice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's how I read it. They meant to write: "UFO and Bonding Hardware must be installed *no less than *1" away from the point where two Rails join together." It's frustrating when using 41.5" W modules on 168" IronRidge rails. Four panels just barely fit on one rail, so when splicing for more modules you need to cut some rail off. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 4:08 PM Daniel Young wrote: > My read on that is that the splice needs to be anywhere EXCEPT where two > modules meet, so for every 40” nominal module width, there is a 2” > exclusion zone (5% of the module width), so there is a 95% chance a random > splice placement will be in a good place. > > > > Basically they don’t want mid clamps right on the splice. > > > > -- > > > > Danny Young > > Engineering Team Lead > Solar Energy Solutions > > Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | > Indianapolis > > 513-448-5176 (mobile) > > 877-312-7456 (Main Office) > > danny at sesre.com > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 16, 2022 3:38 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Ironridge BOSS splice > > > > Hi All, > > > > I am looking through the installation manual for Ironridge racking and > noticed this: > > -------- > > BOSS - Bonded Structual Splice > Insert BOSS into first Rail up until the Stop Tab. Slide second Rail fully > into place. > ➢ Rows using Classic Splice or BOSS and exceeding 100 feet of Rail must > use > Expansion Joints. > ➢ Boss Splices may be installed in any location within a span. > ➢ > *UFO and Bonding Hardware must be installed 1" away from the point where > two Rails join together.* > > *------* > > I put the third bullet point in bold. Is this saying that you need to > ensure that the splice ends up essentially right where two modules meet? Or > are they talking about for an expansion joint only? Needing to plan out the > exact splice locations and cut every rail to the right length seems to make > these splices way more difficult to work with than the normal splice, so I > don't get why anyone would use them. > > > > Cheers, > > Dave > > > > -- > > [image: Logo] > > > > *Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar* > > *p: *he | him | his > * a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > *w:* www.sungineersolar.com > > *c:* (607) 288-2898 > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Mar 17 11:57:15 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:57:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ironridge BOSS splice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tump, thank you for John's phone number from Ironridge. I talked to Ironridge, and John confirmed that the intent here is that the UFO and stopper sleeve needs to be 1" from the joint for an *expansion joint only*. He did also mention that you should not have a t-bolt right on the splice for a normal joint. It just needs to be far enough away so that the bolt can engage properly. Cheers, Dave On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 4:24 PM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > That's how I read it. They meant to write: > > "UFO and Bonding Hardware must be installed *no less than *1" away from > the point where two Rails join together." > > It's frustrating when using 41.5" W modules on 168" IronRidge rails. Four > panels just barely fit on one rail, so when splicing for more modules you > need to cut some rail off. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 4:08 PM Daniel Young wrote: > >> My read on that is that the splice needs to be anywhere EXCEPT where two >> modules meet, so for every 40” nominal module width, there is a 2” >> exclusion zone (5% of the module width), so there is a 95% chance a random >> splice placement will be in a good place. >> >> >> >> Basically they don’t want mid clamps right on the splice. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Danny Young >> >> Engineering Team Lead >> Solar Energy Solutions >> >> Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | >> Indianapolis >> >> 513-448-5176 (mobile) >> >> 877-312-7456 (Main Office) >> >> danny at sesre.com >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan >> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 16, 2022 3:38 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Ironridge BOSS splice >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I am looking through the installation manual for Ironridge racking and >> noticed this: >> >> -------- >> >> BOSS - Bonded Structual Splice >> Insert BOSS into first Rail up until the Stop Tab. Slide second Rail >> fully into place. >> ➢ Rows using Classic Splice or BOSS and exceeding 100 feet of Rail must >> use >> Expansion Joints. >> ➢ Boss Splices may be installed in any location within a span. >> ➢ >> *UFO and Bonding Hardware must be installed 1" away from the point where >> two Rails join together.* >> >> *------* >> >> I put the third bullet point in bold. Is this saying that you need to >> ensure that the splice ends up essentially right where two modules meet? Or >> are they talking about for an expansion joint only? Needing to plan out the >> exact splice locations and cut every rail to the right length seems to make >> these splices way more difficult to work with than the normal splice, so I >> don't get why anyone would use them. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> -- >> >> [image: Logo] >> >> >> >> *Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar* >> >> *p: *he | him | his >> * a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> *w:* www.sungineersolar.com >> >> *c:* (607) 288-2898 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Mar 17 13:02:56 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 10:02:56 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Series 100 splices Message-ID: Thanks everyone. I got a lifetime supply from a fellow wrench. I thought it wise to send this to the group to save everyone from counting and contacting me. I appreciate all of you and this list. William -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Thu Mar 17 23:21:13 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 03:21:13 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Message-ID: Hello, I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we’ve got an upcoming project that will need it. SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board. Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB to get the gateway communication established. Thanks in advance ! Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Thu Mar 17 23:35:18 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:35:18 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Message-ID: I attended some SMA training last week and we were clearly and emphatically told that they do not recomment any Tigo products be used with their inverters.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: Jeremy RodriguezDate: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:21 PMTo: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Hello,  I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we’ve got an upcoming project that will need it.  SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board.  Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB to get the gateway communication established.  Thanks in advance ! Jeremy Rodriguez  Solar Installation / Design Expert  All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Thu Mar 17 23:46:49 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 17:46:49 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does that go for not using Tigo with the SMA Core inverter as well? marco On Thursday, March 17, 2022, Glenn Burt wrote: > I attended some SMA training last week and we were clearly and > emphatically told that they do not recomment any Tigo products be used with > their inverters. > > -Glenn > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *Jeremy Rodriguez > *Date: *Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:21 PM > *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; > *Cc: * > *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation > > Hello, > I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we’ve got an upcoming > project that will need it. > SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT > require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the > rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board. > > Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB > to get the gateway communication established. > > > Thanks in advance ! > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Thu Mar 17 23:57:08 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:57:08 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Message-ID: Yes, no SMA products are to be used with Tigo equipment. Turns out they are not really fully Sunspec Alliance compatible.They have tested a couple of products thoroughly with their inverters and you can find them on the SMA website.Oh and BTW, new SMA inverters will no longer have Wi-Fi capabilities due to chip shortages. Another nugget from the class...-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: Marco MangelsdorfDate: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:46 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operationDoes that go for not using Tigo with the SMA Core inverter as well?marco On Thursday, March 17, 2022, Glenn Burt wrote: I attended some SMA training last week and we were clearly and emphatically told that they do not recomment any Tigo products be used with their inverters.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: Jeremy RodriguezDate: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:21 PMTo: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Hello,  I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we’ve got an upcoming project that will need it.  SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board.  Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB to get the gateway communication established.  Thanks in advance ! Jeremy Rodriguez  Solar Installation / Design Expert  All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.  -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com Fri Mar 18 12:03:22 2022 From: Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 16:03:22 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All – A few points of clarification. There are no Tigo devices on the SunSpec CERTIFIED list of rapid shutdown receivers (which can be found at Sunspec.org). Thus, SMA will not go through any compatibility testing with Tigo devices that are stated to be SunSpec compatible (any TIGO device with F at end of name) So, the statement that SMA does not approve of any Tigo devices paired with SMA inverters is correct *** when using SunSpec for rapid shutdown ***. The Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines have built into every unit a SunSpec certified (found on SunSpec.org) rapid shutdown transmitter. So only when used with SMA approved SunSpec certified rapid shutdown receivers is this a fully supported installation by SMA Service line. The list of SMA approved receivers can be found on the respective CORE and Sunny Boy product pages at SMA-America.com. Go to the Downloads tab, the Background Knowledge section, and look for “Technical Information – SunSpec Certified Rapid Shutdown Devices” Direct link to current SMA approved SunSpec receiver document: https://files.sma.de/downloads/SunSpec-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-14.pdf This approved list was created to ensure ALL inverter functions perform as expected when SunSpec signalling is used for rapid shutdown. SunSpec certification for rapid shutdown only covers the rapid shutdown functionality. As new rapid shutdown receivers are certified by SunSpec, SMA goes through our approval testing. So the above document is updated regularly – please check SMA-America.com for the most up-to-date version rather than keeping the above link. The TS4-A-O unit from Tigo does not use SunSpec for rapid shutdown compliance. That device (also requiring an external CCA separately wired to TAP unit(s) near array to provide rapid shutdown compliance) ARE approved for use with both the Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines from SMA. This is the ONLY current unit from Tigo that is approved for use with current SMA inverters. ** Note that there is a different setting chosen for Rapid Shutdown during SMA inverter commissioning if using the TS4-A-O; it is NOT SunSpec! Please contact SMA if you have any questions.** Direct link to (no longer updated) TS4 SMA global compatibility document: https://files.sma.de/downloads/TS4-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-19.pdf Sharp eyed readers will note that the above linked document mentions the TS4-R-F-42 unit. This was an SMA-only part as SMA physically modified the stock Tigo TS4-R-F to achieve SunSpec certification. The Tigo TS4-R-F was not SunSpec certified, and neither are any current TS4-A-F or TS4-A-2F units. There was a mention of the GIB in the thread, the Gateway Interface Board (GIB) was part of the SMA Rooftop Communication Kit P2 that was discontinued 4+ years ago. If using the TS4-A-O, external CCA and TAP/Gateway are required. Best – Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish [cid:image001.jpg at 01D83AAB.C87DB5D0] [Linkedin Logo] [cid:image003.jpg at 01D83AAB.C87DB5D0] [Graphical user interface, text, website Description automatically generated] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 9:57 PM To: Marco Mangelsdorf ; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Yes, no SMA products are to be used with Tigo equipment. Turns out they are not really fully Sunspec Alliance compatible. They have tested a couple of products thoroughly with their inverters and you can find them on the SMA website. Oh and BTW, new SMA inverters will no longer have Wi-Fi capabilities due to chip shortages. Another nugget from the class... -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. ------ Original message------ From: Marco Mangelsdorf Date: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:46 PM To: RE-wrenches; Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Does that go for not using Tigo with the SMA Core inverter as well? marco On Thursday, March 17, 2022, Glenn Burt > wrote: I attended some SMA training last week and we were clearly and emphatically told that they do not recomment any Tigo products be used with their inverters. -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. ------ Original message------ From: Jeremy Rodriguez Date: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:21 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Hello, I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we’ve got an upcoming project that will need it. SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board. Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB to get the gateway communication established. Thanks in advance ! Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 717 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 731 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 480 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19823 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Fri Mar 18 12:59:29 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 06:59:29 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Message-ID: Thanks, Harry. A cut to the chase question, please: is there a Core inverter-compatible/acceptable RSD product that can accommodate mods with a 60+ VOC? Mahalo, marco On Friday, March 18, 2022, Harry Mahon wrote: > All – A few points of clarification. > > > > There are no Tigo devices on the SunSpec CERTIFIED list of rapid shutdown > receivers (which can be found at Sunspec.org). > > Thus, SMA will not go through any compatibility testing with Tigo devices > that are stated to be SunSpec compatible (any TIGO device with F at end of > name) > > > > So, the statement that SMA does not approve of any Tigo devices paired > with SMA inverters is correct *** when using SunSpec for rapid shutdown ***. > > > > The Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines have built into every unit a > SunSpec certified (found on SunSpec.org) rapid shutdown transmitter. > > So only when used with SMA approved SunSpec certified rapid shutdown > receivers is this a fully supported installation by SMA Service line. > > > > The list of SMA approved receivers can be found on the respective CORE and > Sunny Boy product pages at SMA-America.com. Go to the Downloads tab, the > Background Knowledge section, and look for “Technical Information – SunSpec > Certified Rapid Shutdown Devices” > > Direct link to current SMA approved SunSpec receiver document: > https://files.sma.de/downloads/SunSpec-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-14.pdf > > > > This approved list was created to ensure ALL inverter functions perform as > expected when SunSpec signalling is used for rapid shutdown. SunSpec > certification for rapid shutdown only covers the rapid shutdown > functionality. As new rapid shutdown receivers are certified by SunSpec, > SMA goes through our approval testing. So the above document is updated > regularly – please check SMA-America.com for the most up-to-date version > rather than keeping the above link. > > > > The TS4-A-O unit from Tigo does not use SunSpec for rapid shutdown > compliance. That device (also requiring an external CCA separately wired > to TAP unit(s) near array to provide rapid shutdown compliance) ARE > approved for use with both the Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines from > SMA. This is the ONLY current unit from Tigo that is approved for use with > current SMA inverters. > > ** Note that there is a different setting chosen for Rapid Shutdown during > SMA inverter commissioning if using the TS4-A-O; it is NOT SunSpec! Please > contact SMA if you have any questions.** > > > > Direct link to (no longer updated) TS4 SMA global compatibility document: > https://files.sma.de/downloads/TS4-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-19.pdf > > > > Sharp eyed readers will note that the above linked document mentions the > TS4-R-F-42 unit. This was an SMA-only part as SMA physically modified the > stock Tigo TS4-R-F to achieve SunSpec certification. The Tigo TS4-R-F was > not SunSpec certified, and neither are any current TS4-A-F or TS4-A-2F > units. > > > > There was a mention of the GIB in the thread, the Gateway Interface Board > (GIB) was part of the SMA Rooftop Communication Kit P2 that was > discontinued 4+ years ago. If using the TS4-A-O, external CCA and > TAP/Gateway are required. > > > > Best – > > Mike > > > > > Michael Mahon > Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy > *SMA America* > > 3925 Atherton Rd > > > Rocklin, CA 95765 > > Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 > * www.SMA-America.com > * > > Solar Academy website > > > Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English > > and Spanish > > > > > [image: Linkedin Logo] > > > > > > > [image: Graphical user interface, text, website Description automatically > generated] > > > This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC > confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the > intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or > any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any > attachments thereto. Thank you. > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Glenn Burt > *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2022 9:57 PM > *To:* Marco Mangelsdorf ; RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O > operation > > > > Yes, no SMA products are to be used with Tigo equipment. Turns out they > are not really fully Sunspec Alliance compatible. > > They have tested a couple of products thoroughly with their inverters and > you can find them on the SMA website. > > > > Oh and BTW, new SMA inverters will no longer have Wi-Fi capabilities due > to chip shortages. Another nugget from the class... > > > > -Glenn > > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > > > ------ Original message------ > > *From: *Marco Mangelsdorf > > *Date: *Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:46 PM > > *To: *RE-wrenches; > > *Cc: * > > *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O > operation > > > > Does that go for not using Tigo with the SMA Core inverter as well? > > > > marco > > On Thursday, March 17, 2022, Glenn Burt wrote: > > I attended some SMA training last week and we were clearly and > emphatically told that they do not recomment any Tigo products be used with > their inverters. > > > > -Glenn > > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > > > ------ Original message------ > > *From: *Jeremy Rodriguez > > *Date: *Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:21 PM > > *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; > > *Cc: * > > *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation > > > > Hello, > > I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we’ve got an upcoming > project that will need it. > > SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT > require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the > rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board. > > > > Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB > to get the gateway communication established. > > > > > > Thanks in advance ! > > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > > Solar Installation / Design Expert > > All Solar, Inc. > > 1453 M St > > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 480 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 731 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com Fri Mar 18 14:11:39 2022 From: Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 18:11:39 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, the APsmart RSD-S-PLC has operating voltage up to 80 VDC, and is on the SMA approved list of SunSpec certified receivers for both CORE1 US-41 and Sunny Boy US-41 lines. Website https://apsmartglobal.com/ Datasheet https://apsmartglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/4301615202_RSD-S-PLC-Datasheet_Rev2.3_2021-11-11-1.pdf Best regards - Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish [cid:image001.jpg at 01D83AC1.507EDC60] [Linkedin Logo] [cid:image003.jpg at 01D83AC1.507EDC60] [Graphical user interface, text, website Description automatically generated] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 10:59 AM To: Harry Mahon Cc: RE-wrenches Subject: SMA inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Thanks, Harry. A cut to the chase question, please: is there a Core inverter-compatible/acceptable RSD product that can accommodate mods with a 60+ VOC? Mahalo, marco On Friday, March 18, 2022, Harry Mahon > wrote: All - A few points of clarification. There are no Tigo devices on the SunSpec CERTIFIED list of rapid shutdown receivers (which can be found at Sunspec.org). Thus, SMA will not go through any compatibility testing with Tigo devices that are stated to be SunSpec compatible (any TIGO device with F at end of name) So, the statement that SMA does not approve of any Tigo devices paired with SMA inverters is correct *** when using SunSpec for rapid shutdown ***. The Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines have built into every unit a SunSpec certified (found on SunSpec.org) rapid shutdown transmitter. So only when used with SMA approved SunSpec certified rapid shutdown receivers is this a fully supported installation by SMA Service line. The list of SMA approved receivers can be found on the respective CORE and Sunny Boy product pages at SMA-America.com. Go to the Downloads tab, the Background Knowledge section, and look for "Technical Information - SunSpec Certified Rapid Shutdown Devices" Direct link to current SMA approved SunSpec receiver document: https://files.sma.de/downloads/SunSpec-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-14.pdf This approved list was created to ensure ALL inverter functions perform as expected when SunSpec signalling is used for rapid shutdown. SunSpec certification for rapid shutdown only covers the rapid shutdown functionality. As new rapid shutdown receivers are certified by SunSpec, SMA goes through our approval testing. So the above document is updated regularly - please check SMA-America.com for the most up-to-date version rather than keeping the above link. The TS4-A-O unit from Tigo does not use SunSpec for rapid shutdown compliance. That device (also requiring an external CCA separately wired to TAP unit(s) near array to provide rapid shutdown compliance) ARE approved for use with both the Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines from SMA. This is the ONLY current unit from Tigo that is approved for use with current SMA inverters. ** Note that there is a different setting chosen for Rapid Shutdown during SMA inverter commissioning if using the TS4-A-O; it is NOT SunSpec! Please contact SMA if you have any questions.** Direct link to (no longer updated) TS4 SMA global compatibility document: https://files.sma.de/downloads/TS4-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-19.pdf Sharp eyed readers will note that the above linked document mentions the TS4-R-F-42 unit. This was an SMA-only part as SMA physically modified the stock Tigo TS4-R-F to achieve SunSpec certification. The Tigo TS4-R-F was not SunSpec certified, and neither are any current TS4-A-F or TS4-A-2F units. There was a mention of the GIB in the thread, the Gateway Interface Board (GIB) was part of the SMA Rooftop Communication Kit P2 that was discontinued 4+ years ago. If using the TS4-A-O, external CCA and TAP/Gateway are required. Best - Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish [cid:image001.jpg at 01D83AC1.507EDC60] [Linkedin Logo] [cid:image003.jpg at 01D83AC1.507EDC60] [Graphical user interface, text, website Description automatically generated] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 9:57 PM To: Marco Mangelsdorf >; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Yes, no SMA products are to be used with Tigo equipment. Turns out they are not really fully Sunspec Alliance compatible. They have tested a couple of products thoroughly with their inverters and you can find them on the SMA website. Oh and BTW, new SMA inverters will no longer have Wi-Fi capabilities due to chip shortages. Another nugget from the class... -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. ------ Original message------ From: Marco Mangelsdorf Date: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:46 PM To: RE-wrenches; Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Does that go for not using Tigo with the SMA Core inverter as well? marco On Thursday, March 17, 2022, Glenn Burt > wrote: I attended some SMA training last week and we were clearly and emphatically told that they do not recomment any Tigo products be used with their inverters. -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. ------ Original message------ From: Jeremy Rodriguez Date: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:21 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Hello, I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we've got an upcoming project that will need it. SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board. Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB to get the gateway communication established. Thanks in advance ! Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 717 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 731 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 480 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19823 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Sat Mar 19 11:21:37 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:21:37 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Message-ID: Michael If we can find new old stock of a roof top comm kit, would it work with the Inverter? Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Mar 18, 2022, at 12:11 PM, Harry Mahon wrote:  Yes, the APsmart RSD-S-PLC has operating voltage up to 80 VDC, and is on the SMA approved list of SunSpec certified receivers for both CORE1 US-41 and Sunny Boy US-41 lines. Website https://apsmartglobal.com/ Datasheet https://apsmartglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/4301615202_RSD-S-PLC-Datasheet_Rev2.3_2021-11-11-1.pdf Best regards – Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 10:59 AM To: Harry Mahon Cc: RE-wrenches Subject: SMA inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Thanks, Harry. A cut to the chase question, please: is there a Core inverter-compatible/acceptable RSD product that can accommodate mods with a 60+ VOC? Mahalo, marco On Friday, March 18, 2022, Harry Mahon > wrote: All – A few points of clarification. There are no Tigo devices on the SunSpec CERTIFIED list of rapid shutdown receivers (which can be found at Sunspec.org). Thus, SMA will not go through any compatibility testing with Tigo devices that are stated to be SunSpec compatible (any TIGO device with F at end of name) So, the statement that SMA does not approve of any Tigo devices paired with SMA inverters is correct *** when using SunSpec for rapid shutdown ***. The Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines have built into every unit a SunSpec certified (found on SunSpec.org) rapid shutdown transmitter. So only when used with SMA approved SunSpec certified rapid shutdown receivers is this a fully supported installation by SMA Service line. The list of SMA approved receivers can be found on the respective CORE and Sunny Boy product pages at SMA-America.com. Go to the Downloads tab, the Background Knowledge section, and look for “Technical Information – SunSpec Certified Rapid Shutdown Devices” Direct link to current SMA approved SunSpec receiver document: https://files.sma.de/downloads/SunSpec-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-14.pdf This approved list was created to ensure ALL inverter functions perform as expected when SunSpec signalling is used for rapid shutdown. SunSpec certification for rapid shutdown only covers the rapid shutdown functionality. As new rapid shutdown receivers are certified by SunSpec, SMA goes through our approval testing. So the above document is updated regularly – please check SMA-America.com for the most up-to-date version rather than keeping the above link. The TS4-A-O unit from Tigo does not use SunSpec for rapid shutdown compliance. That device (also requiring an external CCA separately wired to TAP unit(s) near array to provide rapid shutdown compliance) ARE approved for use with both the Sunny Boy US-41 and CORE1 US-41 lines from SMA. This is the ONLY current unit from Tigo that is approved for use with current SMA inverters. ** Note that there is a different setting chosen for Rapid Shutdown during SMA inverter commissioning if using the TS4-A-O; it is NOT SunSpec! Please contact SMA if you have any questions.** Direct link to (no longer updated) TS4 SMA global compatibility document: https://files.sma.de/downloads/TS4-Kompatibilitaet-TI-en-19.pdf Sharp eyed readers will note that the above linked document mentions the TS4-R-F-42 unit. This was an SMA-only part as SMA physically modified the stock Tigo TS4-R-F to achieve SunSpec certification. The Tigo TS4-R-F was not SunSpec certified, and neither are any current TS4-A-F or TS4-A-2F units. There was a mention of the GIB in the thread, the Gateway Interface Board (GIB) was part of the SMA Rooftop Communication Kit P2 that was discontinued 4+ years ago. If using the TS4-A-O, external CCA and TAP/Gateway are required. Best – Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 9:57 PM To: Marco Mangelsdorf >; RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Yes, no SMA products are to be used with Tigo equipment. Turns out they are not really fully Sunspec Alliance compatible. They have tested a couple of products thoroughly with their inverters and you can find them on the SMA website. Oh and BTW, new SMA inverters will no longer have Wi-Fi capabilities due to chip shortages. Another nugget from the class... -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. ------ Original message------ From: Marco Mangelsdorf Date: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:46 PM To: RE-wrenches; Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Does that go for not using Tigo with the SMA Core inverter as well? marco On Thursday, March 17, 2022, Glenn Burt > wrote: I attended some SMA training last week and we were clearly and emphatically told that they do not recomment any Tigo products be used with their inverters. -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. ------ Original message------ From: Jeremy Rodriguez Date: Thu, Mar 17, 2022 11:21 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] SMA SBxx-US-41 inverters and Tigo TS4A-O operation Hello, I normally do not install optimizing TS4s but we’ve got an upcoming project that will need it. SMA tech support was a bit uncertain that the latest -41 inverters did NOT require the CCA along with the Tigo Gateway, and that one could use the rooftop comm kit with the GIB gateway interface board. Can someone clarify if the CCA + Gateway are needed, or can I use the GIB to get the gateway communication established. Thanks in advance ! Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 10:14:42 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 10:14:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate Message-ID: Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the latest rev or last one was? John Blittersdorf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Sun Mar 20 10:55:24 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 08:55:24 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6608a14f-afda-43c0-3f5c-9349f156c497@sindelarsolar.com> John, I've never faced your situation so can't address it directly. However, I don't think matching firmware requires replacing a control board. Can't you just update the firmware to the latest for that legacy product using a Mate3? The firware for these should be available at https://www.outbackpower.com/resources-mobile/technical-support/firmware-updates/item/fxr-vfxr-series-firmware-archive Allan On 3/20/2022 8:14 AM, John Blittersdorf wrote: > Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase > charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to > the generator but doesn’t charge.  I read in the manual that both > inverters must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found > that the added inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61.  > Would it be possible to switch which inverter is the master and have > the newer one recognize the older one.? Otherwise is my only option to > put a new control board in the original inverter? And possibly also in > the new one.  Anyone know what the latest rev or last one was? > > John Blittersdorf > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 11:14:54 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:14:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: <6608a14f-afda-43c0-3f5c-9349f156c497@sindelarsolar.com> References: <6608a14f-afda-43c0-3f5c-9349f156c497@sindelarsolar.com> Message-ID: Allan, The new VFXR has updatable firmware through the MATE3 but the old series has firmware on the control board but not updatable. I have run into this before but lucked out that both older inverters had the same firmware. John On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:55 AM Sindelar Solar wrote: > John, > I've never faced your situation so can't address it directly. However, I > don't think matching firmware requires replacing a control board. Can't you > just update the firmware to the latest for that legacy product using a > Mate3? > The firware for these should be available at > https://www.outbackpower.com/resources-mobile/technical-support/firmware-updates/item/fxr-vfxr-series-firmware-archive > Allan > > On 3/20/2022 8:14 AM, John Blittersdorf wrote: > > Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase > charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the > generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters > must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added > inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to > switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the > older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the > original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the > latest rev or last one was? > > John Blittersdorf > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > > *Allan Sindelar* > allan at sindelarsolar.com > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. > *505 780-2738 cell* > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sun Mar 20 11:21:37 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:21:37 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: <6608a14f-afda-43c0-3f5c-9349f156c497@sindelarsolar.com> References: <6608a14f-afda-43c0-3f5c-9349f156c497@sindelarsolar.com> Message-ID: Do you have the proper hub 10.3 installed? And are the jumpers set correctly? Mate3S? it almost sounds like the slave is set in the Mate not to charge. And if not plugged into the correct hub port, stuff like this happens also. And the Mate3 might not work properly with newer inverters, as I remember. On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:55 AM Sindelar Solar wrote: > John, > I've never faced your situation so can't address it directly. However, I > don't think matching firmware requires replacing a control board. Can't you > just update the firmware to the latest for that legacy product using a > Mate3? > The firware for these should be available at > https://www.outbackpower.com/resources-mobile/technical-support/firmware-updates/item/fxr-vfxr-series-firmware-archive > Allan > > On 3/20/2022 8:14 AM, John Blittersdorf wrote: > > Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase > charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the > generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters > must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added > inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to > switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the > older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the > original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the > latest rev or last one was? > > John Blittersdorf > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > > *Allan Sindelar* > allan at sindelarsolar.com > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. > *505 780-2738 cell* > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 12:32:33 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:32:33 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: References: <6608a14f-afda-43c0-3f5c-9349f156c497@sindelarsolar.com> Message-ID: I just checked my stock of control boards and just happen to have a new unopened in the box that is firmware #68, same as the new used inverter I installed. I guess to be sure Outback wont have any other suggestions, I will install the new board. I charged the customer enough for the used inverter to cover a control board. First I will set the newer one as Master and his older one as slave to see if it makes any difference. In the description of the stacking configurations, There was no mention of Hub requirements. I assume with these older inverters the older Hub should be fine. We ran lots of inverters at SolarFest with the old equipment. I know we are not supposed to promote things on this list but SolarFest in Vermont will be in Brandon July 16-17. SolarFest.org On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 11:22 AM Kirk Herander wrote: > Do you have the proper hub 10.3 installed? And are the jumpers set > correctly? Mate3S? it almost sounds like the slave is set in the Mate not > to charge. And if not plugged into the correct hub port, stuff like this > happens also. And the Mate3 might not work properly with newer inverters, > as I remember. > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:55 AM Sindelar Solar > wrote: > >> John, >> I've never faced your situation so can't address it directly. However, I >> don't think matching firmware requires replacing a control board. Can't you >> just update the firmware to the latest for that legacy product using a >> Mate3? >> The firware for these should be available at >> https://www.outbackpower.com/resources-mobile/technical-support/firmware-updates/item/fxr-vfxr-series-firmware-archive >> Allan >> >> On 3/20/2022 8:14 AM, John Blittersdorf wrote: >> >> Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase >> charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the >> generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters >> must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added >> inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to >> switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the >> older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the >> original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the >> latest rev or last one was? >> >> John Blittersdorf >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> -- >> >> *Allan Sindelar* >> allan at sindelarsolar.com >> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician >> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. >> *505 780-2738 cell* >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Sun Mar 20 13:46:12 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 12:46:12 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C289DDF-D766-4622-BC5D-1CF73C154481@mavericksolar.com> Is the wiring 120/240 and Series or Parallel stacking? If parallel, one of the stacking options assumes you have a x-240 transformer and the slave is silent unless power save is high enough. Pick the parallel that keeps both inverters on at the same time This is kinda foggy since it has been a while. A video from the Mayan era. https://youtu.be/9k1afbsQrAA The Mate3(s) is easier. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Mar 20, 2022, at 9:15 AM, John Blittersdorf wrote: > > Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the latest rev or last one was? > > John Blittersdorf > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 16:06:51 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 16:06:51 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: <0C289DDF-D766-4622-BC5D-1CF73C154481@mavericksolar.com> References: <0C289DDF-D766-4622-BC5D-1CF73C154481@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: > > The system is 120v only from the generator and the house is 120 only. > John > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sun Mar 20 17:05:18 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:05:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John: I have operated FX inverters of different firmware in one system (not FXRs). I was told the newest firmware should be in a lower port but the system worked more reliably with the newer firmware unit in the higher port. May be worth experimenting. Good luck. William Miller On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 7:14 AM John Blittersdorf < john.blittersdorf at gmail.com> wrote: > Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase > charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the > generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters > must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added > inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to > switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the > older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the > original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the > latest rev or last one was? > > John Blittersdorf > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 10:31:53 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 08:31:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI John, Yes Its my understanding that they are backwards compatible. So put the newer inverter as master, older as slave should work. Jay > On Mar 20, 2022, at 8:14 AM, John Blittersdorf wrote: > > Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the latest rev or last one was? > > John Blittersdorf > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From kirkh at vermont.solar Sun Mar 20 18:00:43 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 18:00:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And can't you just wire up the new inverter as a "dumb" battery charger only? If you don't need to double KW to loads, don't try to stack it, or connect it to the hub. Just cable it to the batteries, and wire the genny to it's AC in. NO AC out wiring. When genny is running, it should charge fine. A last resort. On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:14 AM John Blittersdorf < john.blittersdorf at gmail.com> wrote: > Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase > charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the > generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters > must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added > inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to > switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the > older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the > original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the > latest rev or last one was? > > John Blittersdorf > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cometenergysystems at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 19:47:29 2022 From: cometenergysystems at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 19:47:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 Water pumping In-Reply-To: References: <1A6E44E7-C766-443C-890F-4E274E7DE5CE@mac.com> Message-ID: The Sunpumps controller only requires solar panels as DC input. You do not need a charge controller. On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 12:49 PM William Miller wrote: > Windy: > > Thanks for the info. I have been in contact with Sun Pumps. They can sell > me a pump that will work off of a high voltage battery bank (greater than > 90 VDC and likely much higher). However they cannot provide or recommend a > charge controller to output PV charge at the higher voltage. Do you or any > wrench know of a high voltage charge controller on the market? > > Thanks in advance. > > William > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 8:29 AM Windy Dankoff > wrote: > >> Dear William, >> >> SunPumps has a new helical rotor submersible series (positive >> displacement) that is typically much more efficient for high lift compared >> to a normal multi-stage centrifugal sub (you'll have to compare the specs). >> >> https://www.sunpumps.com/Products/HR%2010-525%20AC%20DC >> >> I have no inside-knowledge of this item, but it's based on good >> technology similar to Lorentz and Grundfos and SunPumps is on the same >> level as a world leader. >> >> With any DC pump, you need to be sure it's compatible with battery power >> if you need 24/7. >> >> I hope you'll let us know how it goes. >> >> Windy >> >> >> *From: *William Miller >> *Subject: **[RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING* >> *Date: *March 8, 2022 at 7:53:37 AM MST >> *To: *RE-wrenches >> *Reply-To: * >> >> >> Friends: >> >> >> I have a client that wishes to pump water at about 10 GPM from spring >> through autumn equinoxes. Lift is 300 feet. (This is the project that >> will not siphon beyond 33 feet.) >> >> >> I can design a solar/battery/inverter system for this purpose but I am >> wondering if there is a direct DC option. I am going to look at the >> Grundfos SQ-Flex tables to see if this is an option. >> >> >> Does anyone out there have any advice on best approach to this project? >> >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> Miller Solar >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *Jerry Shafer >> *Subject: **Re: [RE-wrenches] 24/7 wATER pUMPING* >> *Date: *March 8, 2022 at 8:58:16 AM MST >> *To: *William Miller , RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> >> William >> Here is the deal it will be simplest to go AC for the pump because of the >> requirement of high voltage DC yes there are small er output DC pumps but >> that is not what you need, first find a AC pump that can do the required 10 >> GPM at 300 feet of head then design a inverter to fit that bill PV to >> recharge that usage and then some. look at the first and last day of the >> desired water demand and go the shorted day as a production base line. When >> looking at pumps grundfus is very efficient in DC and wild AC but at a cost >> so look at options output vs input. I have done this with Grundus and DC >> direct to a 50K storage tank at the very top of the property so it can be >> done with DC so AC just requires additional nighttime. >> Here might be an option large enough storage tank to fill every night and >> a pump big enough to drain it every day, this can be done DC direct, >> cheaper and less moving parts and the pump can run on a genny if you have >> bad weather for days, This is how the ones I have done work. >> Jerry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Mon Mar 21 16:46:17 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:46:17 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate In-Reply-To: References: <6608a14f-afda-43c0-3f5c-9349f156c497@sindelarsolar.com> Message-ID: HI John The last rev was rev 68 for the VFX3648 and could not be field updated. Replacing the control pcb was required for updates. The older FX inverters could have mismatched firmware just make the Master inverter the newest inverter rev. No special ports on the HUB. The FXR inverters rev can be field updated and the port assignment on the Hub 10.3 is important. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of John Blittersdorf Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2022 9:33 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 2nd VFX3648 added to double charger rate CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. I just checked my stock of control boards and just happen to have a new unopened in the box that is firmware #68, same as the new used inverter I installed. I guess to be sure Outback wont have any other suggestions, I will install the new board. I charged the customer enough for the used inverter to cover a control board. First I will set the newer one as Master and his older one as slave to see if it makes any difference. In the description of the stacking configurations, There was no mention of Hub requirements. I assume with these older inverters the older Hub should be fine. We ran lots of inverters at SolarFest with the old equipment. I know we are not supposed to promote things on this list but SolarFest in Vermont will be in Brandon July 16-17. SolarFest.org On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 11:22 AM Kirk Herander > wrote: Do you have the proper hub 10.3 installed? And are the jumpers set correctly? Mate3S? it almost sounds like the slave is set in the Mate not to charge. And if not plugged into the correct hub port, stuff like this happens also. And the Mate3 might not work properly with newer inverters, as I remember. On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 10:55 AM Sindelar Solar > wrote: John, I've never faced your situation so can't address it directly. However, I don't think matching firmware requires replacing a control board. Can't you just update the firmware to the latest for that legacy product using a Mate3? The firware for these should be available at https://www.outbackpower.com/resources-mobile/technical-support/firmware-updates/item/fxr-vfxr-series-firmware-archive Allan On 3/20/2022 8:14 AM, John Blittersdorf wrote: Wrenches, I just added a 2nd VFX3648 stacked as SLAVE L1 to increase charging of his new eVault 18.5 from 12kw Kohler gen. It connects to the generator but doesn’t charge. I read in the manual that both inverters must be the same firmware revision. Once hooked up I found that the added inverter was rev #68 and the original one rev 61. Would it be possible to switch which inverter is the master and have the newer one recognize the older one.? Otherwise is my only option to put a new control board in the original inverter? And possibly also in the new one. Anyone know what the latest rev or last one was? John Blittersdorf _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Allan Sindelar allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 09:28:02 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:28:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack Options Message-ID: Hi Wrenches, Wondering how people are installing the Discover AES. I get that they can be floor or wall mounted, but I'm trying to avoid exposed conductors and a rack seems like the best option. Any insights? Kindly, Chris Sparadeo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Tue Mar 22 09:45:30 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 09:45:30 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack Options Message-ID: <6baacdqcphsntf169m2eiscf.1647956583591@email.lge.com> Discover makes a wall mounting bracket for these batteries. I have installed a half dozen thus way.I think if I were ground mounting them I would build a simple platform from wood. I dont like the idea of their metal cases resting directly on a concrete floor from a corrosion and temperature perspective.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: Chris SparadeoDate: Tue, Mar 22, 2022 9:28 AMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack OptionsHi Wrenches,Wondering how people are installing the Discover AES. I get that they can be floor or wall mounted, but I'm trying to avoid exposed conductors and a rack seems like the best option. Any insights?Kindly,Chris Sparadeo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:26:54 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:26:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: <923BD856-5D72-41DE-B0E8-40F15E6B3E5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dan, are the 900 MHz flat panels still available. I’m looking at a need for a 1000’ bridge with some trees in the way. I could also do a two step going from my house to my barn 800’ away clear shot and then to the cabin another 300’ clear shot. Is that possible? I’m getting Starlink to replace my Viasat and need internet at the guest cabin. John Blittersdorf On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:52 PM Dan Fink wrote: > I concur with Luke Christy below - I have had great success with Ubiquiti > wireless bridges. If the line of sight is not completely clear, their 2 and > 5gHz dishes can be problematic, but their 900mHz flat panels will work > through a moderate amount of vegetation. I'm using that one to write this > email right now in fact, have not had to touch or reboot anything in 4 > years. Note that they are *not* wifi extenders, you need another wifi > router on the other end connected to the far side of the bridge. > > Dan Fink > Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC > IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector > NABCEP PV Associate > d anbob88 at gmail.com > 970-672-4342 > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 12:39 PM Dave Tedeyan > wrote: > >> Luke, >> I wanted to try out Ubiquiti products, and bought a NanoStation M2, but >> haven't installed it yet. With the Lighbeam, can any device connect to it? >> If so, I know at least the SMA SB wifi can only connect to 2Ghz, and not >> 5Ghz. I'll have to see if there is a 2Ghz option. This is why I cannot use >> the Engenius equipment anymore, since their 202 replacement is 5Ghz only. >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:28 PM Luke Christy >> wrote: >> >>> Adam, >>> I would second Dave’s suggestion to use wireless bridges for this >>> application -if hardwired internet access is available elsewhere on the >>> property and if there is decent line of sight access between that point and >>> where your equipment lives. >>> >>> I have used a lot of Ubiquiti Litebeam point-to-point links for this >>> sort of thing and they are awesome. They have given me rock solid >>> dependability once they are set up and configured, they function just like >>> a virtual ethernet cable over the radio link, and you can even have a >>> single access point transmit to multiple stations. Range for the >>> entry-level Litebeam M5 unit is up to 10km and you can get a pre-configured >>> pair of antenna dishes on Amazon for less than $200. Two devices can be had >>> for around $100 if you are willing to configure them yourself with a laptop >>> or the UISP app from Ubiquiti. Worth checking out. Other versions are >>> available with longer range and more features but I have found the Litebeam >>> M5 is very affordable and works well for most shorter-range applications. >>> >>> >>> Luke Christy >>> >>> Renewable energy consultant. >>> >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: >>> >>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>> PO Box 531 >>> Monte Vista, CO. 81144 >>> SGSRenewables at Gmail.com >>> 719.588.3044 >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:11:14 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:11:14 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Monitoring on Remote Sites In-Reply-To: References: <923BD856-5D72-41DE-B0E8-40F15E6B3E5B@gmail.com> Message-ID: John - It appears that Ubiquiti does still have a 900 MHz bridge available, looks like a very small dish instead of a flat panel. I suggest giving them a call or an email. They were very helpful in email and on the phone when my first 2.4 GHz system was intermittent (worked fine in winter, not in summer...trees grow leaves! duh.) and didn't seem to mind that I didn't speak IT jargon. I'm in a similar situation as you, my guest cabin is 800 feet away with some mid size aspen trees in the way, so 2.4GHz didn't work. Ordered Starlink just over a year ago, their latest guess is next month(!!!) to receive mine. I think the only issue with 900 MHz and Starlink is that your blazing speeds (when it finally arrives) might be limited a bit. 5 GHz and up might keep up with your newfound speed better. Yes, you can do a 2-part bridge, but make sure you look closely at what they mean by "obstructions" and where in your line of sight they are located. Will let you know how it goes with mine when Dishy arrives. Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 8:27 AM John Blittersdorf < john.blittersdorf at gmail.com> wrote: > Dan, are the 900 MHz flat panels still available. I’m looking at a need > for a 1000’ bridge with some trees in the way. I could also do a two step > going from my house to my barn 800’ away clear shot and then to the cabin > another 300’ clear shot. Is that possible? I’m getting Starlink to replace > my Viasat and need internet at the guest cabin. > > John Blittersdorf > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:52 PM Dan Fink wrote: > >> I concur with Luke Christy below - I have had great success with Ubiquiti >> wireless bridges. If the line of sight is not completely clear, their 2 and >> 5gHz dishes can be problematic, but their 900mHz flat panels will work >> through a moderate amount of vegetation. I'm using that one to write this >> email right now in fact, have not had to touch or reboot anything in 4 >> years. Note that they are *not* wifi extenders, you need another wifi >> router on the other end connected to the far side of the bridge. >> >> Dan Fink >> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC >> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation >> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector >> NABCEP PV Associate >> d anbob88 at gmail.com >> 970-672-4342 >> >> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 12:39 PM Dave Tedeyan >> wrote: >> >>> Luke, >>> I wanted to try out Ubiquiti products, and bought a NanoStation M2, but >>> haven't installed it yet. With the Lighbeam, can any device connect to it? >>> If so, I know at least the SMA SB wifi can only connect to 2Ghz, and not >>> 5Ghz. I'll have to see if there is a 2Ghz option. This is why I cannot use >>> the Engenius equipment anymore, since their 202 replacement is 5Ghz only. >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 2:28 PM Luke Christy >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Adam, >>>> I would second Dave’s suggestion to use wireless bridges for this >>>> application -if hardwired internet access is available elsewhere on the >>>> property and if there is decent line of sight access between that point and >>>> where your equipment lives. >>>> >>>> I have used a lot of Ubiquiti Litebeam point-to-point links for this >>>> sort of thing and they are awesome. They have given me rock solid >>>> dependability once they are set up and configured, they function just like >>>> a virtual ethernet cable over the radio link, and you can even have a >>>> single access point transmit to multiple stations. Range for the >>>> entry-level Litebeam M5 unit is up to 10km and you can get a pre-configured >>>> pair of antenna dishes on Amazon for less than $200. Two devices can be had >>>> for around $100 if you are willing to configure them yourself with a laptop >>>> or the UISP app from Ubiquiti. Worth checking out. Other versions are >>>> available with longer range and more features but I have found the Litebeam >>>> M5 is very affordable and works well for most shorter-range applications. >>>> >>>> >>>> Luke Christy >>>> >>>> Renewable energy consultant. >>>> >>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: >>>> >>>> Solar Gain Services, LLC >>>> PO Box 531 >>>> Monte Vista, CO. 81144 >>>> SGSRenewables at Gmail.com >>>> 719.588.3044 >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Tue Mar 22 16:43:14 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 16:43:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays Message-ID: Hi All, I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate arrays. We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: ---- Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. ---- They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed for that gap, there would have been no problem. I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20211221_180914704.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57961 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20211221_180909811.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 309610 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Mar 22 17:24:55 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:24:55 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In Florida, the AHJ is required to cite the section of code when rejecting work. I always ask for that if rejected. I'm not sure how things work in NY. You might start with 690.31(C)(1) that allows PV wire to be exposed within the PV array. The array boundary is defined elsewhere as within 1 ft of the array in all directions, although that pertains to rapid shutdown specifically. You're right - you might just remove the PVC and ask them how it doesn't comply then, considering you only have to support it at 4.5 ft intervals. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:43 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between > two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was > too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by > side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two > separate arrays. > > We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC > for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past > the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: > ---- > Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be > causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. > ---- > They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as > the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all > is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is > not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap > on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed > for that gap, there would have been no problem. > > I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. > I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 17:26:01 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 17:26:01 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dave, I typically use the same method you do for running conductors between two non-continuous arrays. I have never had an issue with either AHJ blowback or actual compromised conductors due to a lack of strain relief. The only code reference I can think of is 300.4 regarding protection against physical damage, but you have that covered with the use of a secured conduit. To appease the AHJ, you could add some pvc female adapters and gland seals. Best, Chris On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:43 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between > two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was > too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by > side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two > separate arrays. > > We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC > for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past > the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: > ---- > Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be > causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. > ---- > They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as > the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all > is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is > not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap > on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed > for that gap, there would have been no problem. > > I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. > I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. > > > | Ithaca, > NY 14850 > > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 17:47:54 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 16:47:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Once in my life i had an inspector concerned about strain relief, i used a GBC on each end of the pipe, it surficed. I think i could have used a bell mouth connector. On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 3:43 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between > two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was > too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by > side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two > separate arrays. > > We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC > for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past > the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: > ---- > Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be > causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. > ---- > They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as > the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all > is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is > not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap > on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed > for that gap, there would have been no problem. > > I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. > I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarwindworks.com Tue Mar 22 18:18:59 2022 From: chris at solarwindworks.com (Chris Worcester) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:18:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would slide 3" of 3/4" 600 volt heat shrink over the end of a stainless steel hose clamp and secure the wire to the rail where it comes out of the conduit at each end. Chris Worcester chris at solarwindworks.com530-448-9692Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s9. -------- Original message --------From: Dave Tedeyan Date: 3/22/22 1:44 PM (GMT-08:00) To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays Hi All, I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate arrays. We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:----Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.----They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed for that gap, there would have been no problem.I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!Cheers, Dave-- Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solarp: he | him | hisa: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850w: www.sungineersolar.comc: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Tue Mar 22 18:32:12 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:32:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays Message-ID: There is a code citation that prohibits the use of conduit without an end or fitting of some kind.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: Darryl ThayerDate: Tue, Mar 22, 2022 5:48 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arraysOnce in my life i had an inspector concerned about strain relief, i used a GBC on each end of the pipe, it surficed. I think i could have used a bell mouth connector.  On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 3:43 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote:Hi All, I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate arrays. We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following:----Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard.----They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed for that gap, there would have been no problem.I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description.I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind!Cheers, Dave-- Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solarp: he | him | hisa: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850w: www.sungineersolar.comc: (607) 288-2898 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Mar 22 18:34:27 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:34:27 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04d0b6cc6720e20c0b2eb502ae9d1207@mail.gmail.com> Dave: If there is a child-proof fence around this installation, please disregard everything I write below. I am curious: Is there such a fence? Question: Is that plastic snow fence attached to the back of the racking with Tek screws? You are lucky I am not your inspector. The smallest issue I see is the flimsy wire bridge. I don’t think any part of this looks code complaint regarding wire protection. The guarding is supposed to keep little fingers away from the conductors, insulated or not. You would not cover a gutter or pull-box with this snow fence material would you? It is not suitable as conductor covering material. Remember the code is designed to protect people of all ages from harm. Kids view ground mount arrays as jungle gyms. The first kid that grabs onto the snow fence attached with Tek screws and no fender washers is going to rip the plastic right off of that array. While swinging around they could easily pull hard on a wire, pulling it out of a crimp connector or across a sharp edge, exposing some of the energized conductor. The possibility of death from this installation is significantly greater than zero. I see a lot of ground mount arrays that are kind of guarded but not really. We should be doing better with our craftsmanship. We have a responsibility. If you want some pointers on how to fix this, I’d be happy to help. Contact me off-line. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan *Sent:* Tuesday, March 22, 2022 1:43 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays Hi All, I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate arrays. We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: ---- Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. ---- They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed for that gap, there would have been no problem. I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* *p: *he | him | his *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 *w:* www.sungineersolar.com *c:* (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 24578 bytes Desc: not available URL: From august at luminalt.com Tue Mar 22 18:47:52 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:47:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This IAEI Magazine article may address this issue a bit: https://iaeimagazine.org/features/electrical-systems-are-you-protected/ Your inspector might be concerned with the rough edges portion of the article: [image: image.png] You may be able to argue with the inspector that you have simply used the PVC as a sleeve, and properly smoothed off the edges to avoid conductor abrasion. Otherwise, typically you would need to install a connector and plastic pull bushing, strain relief, or box of some sort. Best, August Luminalt On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 3:32 PM Glenn Burt wrote: > There is a code citation that prohibits the use of conduit without an end > or fitting of some kind. > > -Glenn > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *Darryl Thayer > *Date: *Tue, Mar 22, 2022 5:48 PM > *To: *RE-wrenches; > *Cc: * > *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays > > Once in my life i had an inspector concerned about strain relief, i used a > GBC on each end of the pipe, it surficed. I think i could have used a bell > mouth connector. > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2022, 3:43 PM Dave Tedeyan > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between >> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was >> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by >> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two >> separate arrays. >> >> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC >> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past >> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: >> ---- >> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be >> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. >> ---- >> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as >> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all >> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is >> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap >> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed >> for that gap, there would have been no problem. >> >> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. >> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> [image: Logo] >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 23505 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:20:17 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 16:20:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Without question the wires are either supported via a rail or strut between the rows of modules or trenched underground if a ground mount. I have seen fly over and it will be a point of failure by someone that should be there but is and if you damage one JB/diode pack on the back of a module you will pay more than the trench would cost. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 1:43 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: > Hi All, > > I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between > two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was > too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by > side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two > separate arrays. > > We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC > for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past > the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: > ---- > Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be > causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. > ---- > They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as > the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all > is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is > not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap > on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed > for that gap, there would have been no problem. > > I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. > I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 20:09:25 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:09:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6F88A612-76DE-4975-9AE4-25F02BCF9BCE@gmail.com> I’m not the code expert. But here is a company making parts used for code installations. https://www.cabproducts.com/solar/ Maybe one of theirs will work instead of the plastic chase. Jay > On Mar 22, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > >  > Without question the wires are either supported via a rail or strut between the rows of modules or trenched underground if a ground mount. I have seen fly over and it will be a point of failure by someone that should be there but is and if you damage one JB/diode pack on the back of a module you will pay more than the trench would cost. > Jerry > NABCEP PV Inspector > >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 1:43 PM Dave Tedeyan wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two separate arrays. >> >> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: >> ---- >> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. >> ---- >> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed for that gap, there would have been no problem. >> >> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. >> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesrudolph99 at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 22:27:56 2022 From: jamesrudolph99 at gmail.com (James Rudolph) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 16:27:56 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wires between arrays In-Reply-To: <6F88A612-76DE-4975-9AE4-25F02BCF9BCE@gmail.com> References: <6F88A612-76DE-4975-9AE4-25F02BCF9BCE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Maybe the inspector just didn't like the look of it for some reason? Sometimes it's just easiest to ask the inspector what he would like to see. If he didnt give the code reference it may be one of these items below: * 2020 NEC* Article 110.12 Workmanship ( the catch all of many issues for some inspectors) Article 300.2(B) Conductor & ground needs to be in the same raceway ( this might be the one). Article 352.12(C) Subject to physical damage (not likely?) Article 352.28 Trimming and removing all rough edges ( maybe?) Article 352.46 Bushings installed where conduit enters box/enclosure-provided to protect conductors ( maybe?) Please let us know how this one ends up. Happy Trails & Good Luck. James B. Rudolph Independent Energy C-39784 ES #10816 NABCEP Certified PV Installer since 2009 #091209-155 C. 808.313.9701 On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 2:25 PM Jay wrote: > I’m not the code expert. > But here is a company making parts used for code installations. > > https://www.cabproducts.com/solar/ > > Maybe one of theirs will work instead of the plastic chase. > > Jay > > > > On Mar 22, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Jerry Shafer > wrote: > >  > Without question the wires are either supported via a rail or strut > between the rows of modules or trenched underground if a ground mount. I > have seen fly over and it will be a point of failure by someone that should > be there but is and if you damage one JB/diode pack on the back of a module > you will pay more than the trench would cost. > Jerry > NABCEP PV Inspector > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 1:43 PM Dave Tedeyan > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I have an inspector giving me a hard time about wire management between >> two ground mounted arrays. The racking is Unirac GFT, and the system was >> too large to have one continuous array. So there are two arrays, side by >> side, with only a 1' gap between the rails and modules from the two >> separate arrays. >> >> We jumped the PV wire between the arrays through a short section of PVC >> for protection, and the wires are secured to the rails about a foot past >> the PVC on either end. The inspector is citing the following: >> ---- >> Array conductors found disconnected or improperly connected, which may be >> causing portions of the array to be inoperable and/or pose a shock hazard. >> ---- >> They say that they are citing this because there is no strain relief as >> the wires enter and exit the 18" piece of conduit. My question to you all >> is, do you know of any code reference that says that this setup is or is >> not okay? I would also be curious to hear what others do to span a 1' gap >> on a ground mount. It almost seems as if I just left the conductors exposed >> for that gap, there would have been no problem. >> >> I attached a couple of photos to help with my written description. >> I appreciate the knowledge of this hive mind! >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> [image: Logo] >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 09:45:29 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 07:45:29 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Different question about wires between arrays Message-ID: <66A376D6-5326-43C4-9B27-AA2AD3BB8B23@gmail.com> I have a different question about wiring between arrays. Ground mount, 2 arrays, all behind a fence for cow protection. My question is, can you run EMT above ground on say 4” concrete blocks( like on a roof) between the back array and the inverter which is at the front array? Say 20’ between them. Easier than trenching. Thx Jay From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Wed Mar 23 10:28:46 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 08:28:46 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Different question about wires between arrays In-Reply-To: <66A376D6-5326-43C4-9B27-AA2AD3BB8B23@gmail.com> References: <66A376D6-5326-43C4-9B27-AA2AD3BB8B23@gmail.com> Message-ID: *> My question is, can you run EMT above ground on say 4” concrete blocks( like on a roof) between the back array and the inverter which is at the front array?* I have found in follow up inspections at a site where we did this that the concrete blocks tend to move around a bit over time (presumably from melt/thaw of ice and snow) but it has protected the conductors well and it obviously passed inspection. The site where we did this was built on top of a concrete pad which we obviously couldn't trench into. The entire property this is located on is access-controlled and is staffed 24 hours a day so nuisance interactions are not a safety concern otherwise this may have been sub-optimal. Sincerely, Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Mar 25 18:22:53 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 15:22:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lead placment and length on new PV Panels Message-ID: <2f786490fe3a22bd3a7ada793991e776@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I have been designing a large-ish off-grid system over the last few weeks. This will be our first off-grid system to require MLRSS. We chose the Tigo TS4-A-F system. In order to make certain the Tigo will work with modules that we can get our hands on, we brought in a few samples to try and connect with the Tigos. What we found is that with many of the new PV panels, the leads connect to the two long sides of the panels and are often too short to practically route to the frame-mounted Tigos. This got me to thinking: Many panels are now configured with leads connected to the two long sides. Many new panels are coming out with shorter leads. Virtually all new roof-mounted installation will need some form of MLPE. These new panels will be ill-suited to connect to those MLPE devices. This has to do with the fact that instead of in the old days, when each panel connected to a neighbor on either side, each panel now connects to a single device, the MLPE. The leads must able to reach that MLPE without being pulled, banjo-string-tight across a void. If PV leads cannot be supported, they will end of laying on the roof. Can we agree that is a bad thing? Have any of you consider this situation? It is kind of complicated and hard to explain. I attempted to do so by writing a web page dedicated to the subject. I finished the site today but I am not sure it communicates the dilemma adequately. You can find it here . I would be most grateful if some of you more experienced installers could look this over and let me know if this problem has come across your radar and what you are doing about this issue. Thanks in advance. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 20:17:54 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:17:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lead placment and length on new PV Panels In-Reply-To: <2f786490fe3a22bd3a7ada793991e776@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f786490fe3a22bd3a7ada793991e776@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William We have found fire raptor better suited for our roof mounted off grid or back up systems what modules are you specing and what inverter Solark or Outback. I have seen arc fault shut down the CC on the OB and inverter on the Solark, none of the faulted systems had Fire Raptor used but beware it can still happen with most RSD's Jerry On Fri, Mar 25, 2022, 3:56 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > I have been designing a large-ish off-grid system over the last few > weeks. This will be our first off-grid system to require MLRSS. We chose > the Tigo TS4-A-F system. > > > > In order to make certain the Tigo will work with modules that we can get > our hands on, we brought in a few samples to try and connect with the > Tigos. What we found is that with many of the new PV panels, the leads > connect to the two long sides of the panels and are often too short to > practically route to the frame-mounted Tigos. > > > > This got me to thinking: Many panels are now configured with leads > connected to the two long sides. Many new panels are coming out with > shorter leads. Virtually all new roof-mounted installation will need some > form of MLPE. These new panels will be ill-suited to connect to those MLPE > devices. > > > > This has to do with the fact that instead of in the old days, when each > panel connected to a neighbor on either side, each panel now connects to a > single device, the MLPE. The leads must able to reach that MLPE without > being pulled, banjo-string-tight across a void. If PV leads cannot be > supported, they will end of laying on the roof. Can we agree that is a bad > thing? > > > > Have any of you consider this situation? It is kind of complicated and > hard to explain. I attempted to do so by writing a web page dedicated to > the subject. I finished the site today but I am not sure it communicates > the dilemma adequately. You can find it here > > . > > > > I would be most grateful if some of you more experienced installers could > look this over and let me know if this problem has come across your radar > and what you are doing about this issue. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 19:35:12 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 17:35:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lead placment and length on new PV Panels In-Reply-To: <2f786490fe3a22bd3a7ada793991e776@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f786490fe3a22bd3a7ada793991e776@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BBD4A4E-848F-4C5D-8CFF-BCA5217103D6@gmail.com> Hi william The technic I use is to build or buy custom lengths of jumpers. Then I can mount the MLPE exactly as I want with the wire routing to my preference. Yes it’s the most expensive route: more wire, more clips, but also the cleanest. And often the MLPE don’t have the same connectors as the panels which require adapters anyway. Jay > On Mar 25, 2022, at 4:56 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Friends: > > I have been designing a large-ish off-grid system over the last few weeks. This will be our first off-grid system to require MLRSS. We chose the Tigo TS4-A-F system. > > In order to make certain the Tigo will work with modules that we can get our hands on, we brought in a few samples to try and connect with the Tigos. What we found is that with many of the new PV panels, the leads connect to the two long sides of the panels and are often too short to practically route to the frame-mounted Tigos. > > This got me to thinking: Many panels are now configured with leads connected to the two long sides. Many new panels are coming out with shorter leads. Virtually all new roof-mounted installation will need some form of MLPE. These new panels will be ill-suited to connect to those MLPE devices. > > This has to do with the fact that instead of in the old days, when each panel connected to a neighbor on either side, each panel now connects to a single device, the MLPE. The leads must able to reach that MLPE without being pulled, banjo-string-tight across a void. If PV leads cannot be supported, they will end of laying on the roof. Can we agree that is a bad thing? > > Have any of you consider this situation? It is kind of complicated and hard to explain. I attempted to do so by writing a web page dedicated to the subject. I finished the site today but I am not sure it communicates the dilemma adequately. You can find it here. > > I would be most grateful if some of you more experienced installers could look this over and let me know if this problem has come across your radar and what you are doing about this issue. > > Thanks in advance. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From blake at sunlightandpower.com Sat Mar 26 11:39:51 2022 From: blake at sunlightandpower.com (Blake Gleason) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2022 08:39:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? Message-ID: Hi all, I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions. I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking systems to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical position) or "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the winter (snow) season? Or ideas for a completely different approach to solving the challenge I'm facing? I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a small commercial community center facility. The facility is accessible and in use only during the summer months. So, I want to optimize production for the summer, and also avoid having the array destroyed by the heavy Sierra snow during the winter. To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints: - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods) - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely surrounding all roof options) - Must be relatively low profile, visually. Pole mount not an option - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 arrays (13' x 45') - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile) There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively straightforward. At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath the nearby deck for the winter. I'd like to think there might be a more "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and tear on the modules over the years). I wondered if there's a clever way to "drop" the modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could remain in place during the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and release at the bottom). I guess this might require individual rows of modules instead of one large array. (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) operational through the winter for battery maintenance and a few incidental loads. These could be vertically mounted on the south side of one of the buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.) Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that haven't worked, etc!! Best, Blake -- Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence O: 510-845-2997 x128 C: 510-867-5878 1035 Folger Ave. Berkeley, CA 94710 www.sunlightandpower.com License #326203 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 11:44:42 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 08:44:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We almost always use the AES brackets. Often mounted to strut. You want access to the on/off button, so some exposed conductor is inevitable. We have also fabricated shelves for them to sit on. For 2 or more batteries in multiples of two, we stack them so that the bottom battery has its terminals facing up, and the top battery with terminals facing down. With large banks, like the one we are currently building with we placed both a 10" X 10" X 20' long gutter with 3/8" x 4" bussbars running the entire length, and for comms (2) 2.5" X 2.5" x 20" gutters(top and bottom) between the upper and lower stacks of batteries. Cables wrap back and into the back of the gutters. It's very clean. In a few instances, we have left the batteries sitting on the pallet bases they shipped on when budgets are super tight or no wall space is available. On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:28 AM Chris Sparadeo wrote: > Hi Wrenches, > > Wondering how people are installing the Discover AES. I get that they can > be floor or wall mounted, but I'm trying to avoid exposed conductors and a > rack seems like the best option. Any insights? > > Kindly, > > Chris Sparadeo > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Sun Mar 27 12:19:34 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 09:19:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? In-Reply-To: <9743a9f2-d0d9-d55b-7a04-88439c25041a@villagelab.net> References: <9743a9f2-d0d9-d55b-7a04-88439c25041a@villagelab.net> Message-ID: <9306e0ec-b07c-4a4f-180c-90a22b7bfda7@villagepowerdesign.com> Hi Blake, I'm curious why the assumption that the snow will destroy the array - how about 3 rails instead of 2 under the modules? > Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches > March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM > Hi all, > > I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions. > > I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking > systems to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical > position) or "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the > winter (snow) season?  Or ideas for a completely different approach to > solving the challenge I'm facing? > > I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a > small commercial community center facility.  The facility is > accessible and in use only during the summer months.  So, I want to > optimize production for the summer, and also avoid having the array > destroyed by the heavy Sierra snow during the winter. > > To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints: > > - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods) > - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely > surrounding all roof options) > - Must be relatively low profile, visually.  Pole mount not an option > - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 > arrays (13' x 45') > - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile) > > There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to > "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively > straightforward. > > At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and > un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath > the nearby deck for the winter.  I'd like to think there might be a > more "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and > tear on the modules over the years).  I wondered if there's a clever > way to "drop" the modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could > remain in place during the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and > release at the bottom).  I guess this might require individual rows of > modules instead of one large array. > > (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) > operational through the winter for battery maintenance and a few > incidental loads.  These could be vertically mounted on the south side > of one of the buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.) > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that > haven't worked, etc!! > > Best, > Blake > > -- > > Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner > Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence > O: 510-845-2997 x128 > C: 510-867-5878 > > 1035 Folger Ave. > Berkeley, CA 94710 > www.sunlightandpower.com > License #326203 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Sun Mar 27 14:02:43 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 18:02:43 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? In-Reply-To: <9306e0ec-b07c-4a4f-180c-90a22b7bfda7@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <9743a9f2-d0d9-d55b-7a04-88439c25041a@villagelab.net> <9306e0ec-b07c-4a4f-180c-90a22b7bfda7@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: <388C9BD7-FCFF-4ED3-8FEE-89145BCDE93B@recgroup.com> Good afternoon; Mounting modules on 3 rails will typically increase the load carrying capacity of the array by 30% (or more). Most module manufacturers list this method in their installation manuals, or if not in the manual, they have a waiver written for that method. Be aware that when mounting modules in a heavy snow load region that highest static snow load will be concentrated on the lowest module rail in the array. If you mount modules in landscape configuration the load will be concentrated on a long side rail and this can sometimes lead to loads above what that rail can carry. The bottom rail may require extra support, or consider shifting to portrait mount. George McClellan | Technical Sales Manager | REC Solar US +1 805 704 3226 | www.recgroup.com On Mar 27, 2022, at 9:52 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches wrote:  Hi Blake, I'm curious why the assumption that the snow will destroy the array - how about 3 rails instead of 2 under the modules? Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM Hi all, I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions. I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking systems to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical position) or "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the winter (snow) season? Or ideas for a completely different approach to solving the challenge I'm facing? I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a small commercial community center facility. The facility is accessible and in use only during the summer months. So, I want to optimize production for the summer, and also avoid having the array destroyed by the heavy Sierra snow during the winter. To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints: - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods) - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely surrounding all roof options) - Must be relatively low profile, visually. Pole mount not an option - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 arrays (13' x 45') - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile) There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively straightforward. At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath the nearby deck for the winter. I'd like to think there might be a more "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and tear on the modules over the years). I wondered if there's a clever way to "drop" the modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could remain in place during the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and release at the bottom). I guess this might require individual rows of modules instead of one large array. (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) operational through the winter for battery maintenance and a few incidental loads. These could be vertically mounted on the south side of one of the buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.) Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that haven't worked, etc!! Best, Blake -- Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence O: 510-845-2997 x128 C: 510-867-5878 1035 Folger Ave. Berkeley, CA 94710 www.sunlightandpower.com License #326203 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Sun Mar 27 13:22:26 2022 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 10:22:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin Post, do not respond on list Message-ID: <1648401773398.57d642b64ee423c2@re-wrenches.org> Hello Wrenches. Contact me off list with any questions or concerns. I'm experimenting with new list server settings, as google had recently been rejecting list messages going to gmail addresses. I think I've got it mostly squared away, but have a couple of concerns I'm figuring out. As I've mentioned in the past, for replying to the list, it's best to use "Reply" and not "Reply to All." And for reply emails that should go to the individual and not the list, edit to replace the list address with the individual's address. From blake at sunlightandpower.com Sun Mar 27 15:02:30 2022 From: blake at sunlightandpower.com (Blake Gleason) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 12:02:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? In-Reply-To: <388C9BD7-FCFF-4ED3-8FEE-89145BCDE93B@recgroup.com> References: <9743a9f2-d0d9-d55b-7a04-88439c25041a@villagelab.net> <9306e0ec-b07c-4a4f-180c-90a22b7bfda7@villagepowerdesign.com> <388C9BD7-FCFF-4ED3-8FEE-89145BCDE93B@recgroup.com> Message-ID: Hi all, thanks for the thoughts. I should have been more explicit about my concerns regarding heavy snow loading on a low-tilt ground mount: 1. The overall rack loading. This concern can be mitigated by adding more posts, more beams, more rails, and/or larger versions of each. Relatively easy (but does add cost). 2. Module loading versus rating. Depending on which module, which orientation, and which testing method, most modules are rated for something like 60 - 120 psf. For example, the modules I'm looking at have a maximum downward load of 5400 Pa, or ~112 psf. Ground snow loads in the area of this project are well over 200 psf, and over 300 psf in certain pockets. Adding a third rail helps some, but perhaps not enough. Steeper tilt angles definitely help, especially if there is room for the snow to shed. 3. The bottom aluminum frame section of the lowest modules. I think we've all seen that bottom module frame bent outward/downward, eventually to failure, by snow loads (photo attached, from a roof-mounted system in the same location as my current project). I haven't tried it, and I'm curious if anyone else on here has: perhaps this type of failure could be mitigated or at least reduced by putting the modules in landscape (with rails running up and down slope) AND adding a third (or fourth??) rail, so that the bottom module frame has three (or four) module clamps supporting it? Otherwise, again, steeper angles and snow shedding seem like the only way... Thanks for sharing your ideas and experiences! Blake On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 11:03 AM George McClellan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good afternoon; > > Mounting modules on 3 rails will typically increase the load carrying > capacity of the array by 30% (or more). Most module manufacturers list > this method in their installation manuals, or if not in the manual, they > have a waiver written for that method. > > Be aware that when mounting modules in a heavy snow load region that > highest static snow load will be concentrated on the lowest module rail in > the array. If you mount modules in landscape configuration the load will > be concentrated on a long side rail and this can sometimes lead to loads > above what that rail can carry. The bottom rail may require extra support, > or consider shifting to portrait mount. > > George McClellan | Technical Sales Manager | REC Solar US > +1 805 704 3226 | www.recgroup.com > > On Mar 27, 2022, at 9:52 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  Hi Blake, > > I'm curious why the assumption that the snow will destroy the array - how > about 3 rails instead of 2 under the modules? > > Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches > March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM > Hi all, > > I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions. > > I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking systems > to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical position) or > "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the winter (snow) > season? Or ideas for a completely different approach to solving the > challenge I'm facing? > > I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a > small commercial community center facility. The facility is accessible and > in use only during the summer months. So, I want to optimize production > for the summer, and also avoid having the array destroyed by the heavy > Sierra snow during the winter. > > To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints: > > - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods) > - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely surrounding > all roof options) > - Must be relatively low profile, visually. Pole mount not an option > - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 > arrays (13' x 45') > - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile) > > There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to > "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively > straightforward. > > At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and > un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath the > nearby deck for the winter. I'd like to think there might be a more > "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and tear on the > modules over the years). I wondered if there's a clever way to "drop" the > modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could remain in place during > the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and release at the bottom). I > guess this might require individual rows of modules instead of one large > array. > > (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) operational > through the winter for battery maintenance and a few incidental loads. > These could be vertically mounted on the south side of one of the > buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.) > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that > haven't worked, etc!! > > Best, > Blake > > -- > > Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner > Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence > O: 510-845-2997 x128 > C: 510-867-5878 > > 1035 Folger Ave. > Berkeley, CA 94710 > www.sunlightandpower.com > > License #326203 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any > unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this > message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please > notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ------------------------------ > > This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any > unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this > message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please > notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__re-2Dwrenches.org&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=GwkiGjFABMOELhpEQ5xn-S3--9NsI3xc5SJ_cfn7LZg&m=BqhsJVj5ZBY6gDiLqAb1ppUG5S0RnclPlaUirYXNggc&s=JzrL7-Ps2nX9M7YNr1FCMPGaFsFG2sPMHCD0CiQJZuo&e= > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.re-2Dwrenches.org_options.cgi_re-2Dwrenches-2Dre-2Dwrenches.org&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=GwkiGjFABMOELhpEQ5xn-S3--9NsI3xc5SJ_cfn7LZg&m=BqhsJVj5ZBY6gDiLqAb1ppUG5S0RnclPlaUirYXNggc&s=osCPx-ai52yHaLHM5tsMWZ1gxs6oRZC66c86DEf3sI8&e= > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.mail-2Darchive.com_re-2Dwrenches-40lists.re-2Dwrenches.org_&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=GwkiGjFABMOELhpEQ5xn-S3--9NsI3xc5SJ_cfn7LZg&m=BqhsJVj5ZBY6gDiLqAb1ppUG5S0RnclPlaUirYXNggc&s=2zfLv52sIryIGxxVICKXhE0X-k4AJMQwUf8jPPb_wpo&e= > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.re-2Dwrenches.org_pipermail_re-2Dwrenches-2Dre-2Dwrenches.org&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=GwkiGjFABMOELhpEQ5xn-S3--9NsI3xc5SJ_cfn7LZg&m=BqhsJVj5ZBY6gDiLqAb1ppUG5S0RnclPlaUirYXNggc&s=IIZS0T1ght2oF5Q1abVRj0fSJmQk_MUqeiYtRNAxxJU&e= > > List rules & etiquette: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.re-2Dwrenches.org_etiquette.htm&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=GwkiGjFABMOELhpEQ5xn-S3--9NsI3xc5SJ_cfn7LZg&m=BqhsJVj5ZBY6gDiLqAb1ppUG5S0RnclPlaUirYXNggc&s=PP94a5g7pCGN-hDU3DH0Y5pM-3wK7fBK4G1LCM3BWyY&e= > > Check out or update participant bios: > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.members.re-2Dwrenches.org&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=GwkiGjFABMOELhpEQ5xn-S3--9NsI3xc5SJ_cfn7LZg&m=BqhsJVj5ZBY6gDiLqAb1ppUG5S0RnclPlaUirYXNggc&s=yOp2DC1g2I5X7Qyk0-miIiWswsyCT_3v2_1XvGtRJ_Q&e= > > -- Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence O: 510-845-2997 x128 C: 510-867-5878 1035 Folger Ave. Berkeley, CA 94710 www.sunlightandpower.com License #326203 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_7134.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 510451 bytes Desc: not available URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 15:26:44 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 14:26:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 In-Reply-To: <6cb68830dbeeed15f3dbea0de6b55fa0@mail.gmail.com> References: <156741E2-8B38-4489-AFFA-E0A796E2C733@gmail.com> <6cb68830dbeeed15f3dbea0de6b55fa0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, Sorry to be so late but I have been overloaded. Just a note on physics of lifting water. The calculation indicates if you pump 1 gallon per minute up 300 feet it required a water hp of 5 HP Use this base number and good pumps are about 70% efficient. If the flow rate is not 1 GPM adjust the HP accordingly. For example, if you want to pump 10 GPM it requires 50 HP or if you want to pump 10 Gallons / day it requires (50HP/ 24h 60min )requiring 0,035 HP.. Again I apologize for delay. On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:33 AM William Miller wrote: > Hilton: > > A valid point. However in this region wells often do not recharge as well > as we might like. In these cases, to meet gallons per day you have to pump > long and slow--more hours per day than the sun will be up. That means of > course generator or battery storage. > > The economics have shifted from when I started installing direct-DC water > pumping. The money that is being spent today to provide commercial ag > water > is beyond what I would have comprehended back then. This means new > technology--and questions need to be asked, including considering battery > storage. > > Thanks for your reply. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Hilton Dier > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 6:56 PM > To: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 > > Here’s a lateral take on this. A 500 gallon poly water tank is far cheaper > than the batteries needed to fill it. > > Years ago I rigged up a seasonal pump system for a man who had two ponds on > his property. The lower one was well fed by a spring but the upper one > wasn’t. > I used a 200 watt DC piston pump and a couple of modules with a linear > current booster. A couple of breakers but no batteries. It just chugged > away > quietly all (moderately sunny) day, filling the upper pond. > > Using a positive displacement pump is key for minimizing power > requirements. > At 300 feet that’s about 125 psi, which is not out of line for a piston > pump. Fill a big poly tank and pressurize it with a small DC diaphragm pump > if necessary. > > Simple, efficient, cheap. > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Sun Mar 27 20:01:25 2022 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 20:01:25 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack Options In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Michael, Any chance you might share a couple of pictures of the project you discussed? Christopher On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 11:44 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We almost always use the AES brackets. Often mounted to strut. You want > access to the on/off button, so some exposed conductor is inevitable. We > have also fabricated shelves for them to sit on. For 2 or more batteries in > multiples of two, we stack them so that the bottom battery has its > terminals facing up, and the top battery with terminals facing down. With > large banks, like the one we are currently building with we placed both a > 10" X 10" X 20' long gutter with 3/8" x 4" bussbars running the entire > length, and for comms (2) 2.5" X 2.5" x 20" gutters(top and bottom) between > the upper and lower stacks of batteries. Cables wrap back and into the back > of the gutters. It's very clean. In a few instances, we have left the > batteries sitting on the pallet bases they shipped on when budgets are > super tight or no wall space is available. > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:28 AM Chris Sparadeo > wrote: > >> Hi Wrenches, >> >> Wondering how people are installing the Discover AES. I get that they can >> be floor or wall mounted, but I'm trying to avoid exposed conductors and a >> rack seems like the best option. Any insights? >> >> Kindly, >> >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 20:08:12 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 17:08:12 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? In-Reply-To: <9306e0ec-b07c-4a4f-180c-90a22b7bfda7@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <9743a9f2-d0d9-d55b-7a04-88439c25041a@villagelab.net> <9306e0ec-b07c-4a4f-180c-90a22b7bfda7@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: I have seen repeat melting and freezing rip the frames from the modules, granted these modules were not sealed or glued in. But just consider if water can get in a rail and freeze then any extruded frames with inclosed channels can be effected. Option is to drill the boxed channel to promote drainage. Once the rail is weakened or warped then what was holding the glass in is no longer and then the glass failed without the support. So if you have a ground mount then tilt it to vertical. On Sun, Mar 27, 2022, 9:52 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Blake, > > I'm curious why the assumption that the snow will destroy the array - how > about 3 rails instead of 2 under the modules? > > Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches > March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM > Hi all, > > I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions. > > I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking systems > to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical position) or > "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the winter (snow) > season? Or ideas for a completely different approach to solving the > challenge I'm facing? > > I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a > small commercial community center facility. The facility is accessible and > in use only during the summer months. So, I want to optimize production > for the summer, and also avoid having the array destroyed by the heavy > Sierra snow during the winter. > > To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints: > > - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods) > - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely surrounding > all roof options) > - Must be relatively low profile, visually. Pole mount not an option > - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 > arrays (13' x 45') > - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile) > > There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to > "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively > straightforward. > > At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and > un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath the > nearby deck for the winter. I'd like to think there might be a more > "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and tear on the > modules over the years). I wondered if there's a clever way to "drop" the > modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could remain in place during > the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and release at the bottom). I > guess this might require individual rows of modules instead of one large > array. > > (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) operational > through the winter for battery maintenance and a few incidental loads. > These could be vertically mounted on the south side of one of the > buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.) > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that > haven't worked, etc!! > > Best, > Blake > > -- > > Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner > Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence > O: 510-845-2997 x128 > C: 510-867-5878 > > 1035 Folger Ave. > Berkeley, CA 94710 > www.sunlightandpower.com > License #326203 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hathasolar at yahoo.com Mon Mar 28 12:57:58 2022 From: hathasolar at yahoo.com (Wesley Kennedy) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2022 10:57:58 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B7AE918-773F-433E-9709-295ADF4A72BF@yahoo.com> Hi Darryl, I’d love to see that math on that.you mind sharing? -Wes 303-653-3073 > On Mar 27, 2022, at 1:27 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hello, Sorry to be so late but I have been overloaded. Just a note on physics of lifting water. The calculation indicates if you pump 1 gallon per minute up 300 feet it required a water hp of 5 HP > Use this base number and good pumps are about 70% efficient. If the flow rate is not 1 GPM adjust the HP accordingly. For example, if you want to pump 10 GPM it requires 50 HP or if you want to pump 10 Gallons / day it requires (50HP/ 24h 60min )requiring 0,035 HP.. > Again I apologize for delay. > >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:33 AM William Miller wrote: >> Hilton: >> >> A valid point. However in this region wells often do not recharge as well >> as we might like. In these cases, to meet gallons per day you have to pump >> long and slow--more hours per day than the sun will be up. That means of >> course generator or battery storage. >> >> The economics have shifted from when I started installing direct-DC water >> pumping. The money that is being spent today to provide commercial ag water >> is beyond what I would have comprehended back then. This means new >> technology--and questions need to be asked, including considering battery >> storage. >> >> Thanks for your reply. >> >> William >> >> Miller Solar >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> 805-438-5600 >> www.millersolar.com >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of Hilton Dier >> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 6:56 PM >> To: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 >> >> Here’s a lateral take on this. A 500 gallon poly water tank is far cheaper >> than the batteries needed to fill it. >> >> Years ago I rigged up a seasonal pump system for a man who had two ponds on >> his property. The lower one was well fed by a spring but the upper one wasn’t. >> I used a 200 watt DC piston pump and a couple of modules with a linear >> current booster. A couple of breakers but no batteries. It just chugged away >> quietly all (moderately sunny) day, filling the upper pond. >> >> Using a positive displacement pump is key for minimizing power requirements. >> At 300 feet that’s about 125 psi, which is not out of line for a piston >> pump. Fill a big poly tank and pressurize it with a small DC diaphragm pump >> if necessary. >> >> Simple, efficient, cheap. >> >> Hilton Dier III >> Renewable Energy Design >> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue Mar 29 10:15:23 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 09:15:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] IRC 328 and ESS...approved barriers and "subject to" damage Message-ID: <04e301d84377$6e935c30$4bba1490$@solarcentex.com> Good morning, Wrenches. We all discuss the NEC when it comes to ESS but the section in International Residential Code (IRC) R328 is something to look at carefully. Easy to miss is the requirement to extend fire alarm systems to garage spaces where we quite often install the ESS. But the section in R328.8 Protection from impact is what worries me as it is so open ended. Here is what I wrote to a city inspector: "I'd like to review this open-ended section of R328 and how you interpret it, please. We intend to mount the ESS within an attached garage but we position so as to prevent damage from vehicles coming into their normal parking space. Having said that, a vehicle that moved five further feet forward might in fact run into an ESS. So do you read "subject to" as in normal, due course or do you consider the very worst scenario / accident? And what approved barriers have you seen that comply to your satisfaction in xxxxx." What do you all do for R328? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 24296 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 27572 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Tue Mar 29 13:15:17 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 10:15:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Equipment for 400 Amp Service Supply Side & 2 200s Message-ID: <84bbb4d9-73ca-f7a3-2d2c-952b3541326b@villagepowerdesign.com> Good Day Wrenches, Does anyone know of a 400 Amp Meter/Main that can accomplish the following? 1)  Provide 2 x 200 Main Breakers for Loads 2) Provide an easy supply side tap point for 160 Amps of Grid-tie Solar (so basically a 200 Amp backfeed) I'm considering using an Eaton 324 N   (Eaton B-Line 324 N 400A, 320 A cont. 4P, 4 Jaw, Meter Socket W Link Bypass Facilities) but I'm not sure I can double lug it and then also tap off of one of the 200 Amp lines with another tap (using Ilsco IPC-250-4/0 splice connectors). Thanks! Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater linkedin linkedin www.villagelab.net www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vincentj at cobaltpower.com Tue Mar 29 13:31:13 2022 From: vincentj at cobaltpower.com (Vincent Jolissaint) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 10:31:13 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?b?4oCLSVJDIDMyOCBhbmQgRVNTLi4uYXBwcm92ZWQg?= =?utf-8?q?barriers_and_=22subject_to=22_damage?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2021 International Fire Code Revise as follows: 1207.11.7 Protection from impact. Stationary storage battery systems ESS installed in a location subject to vehicle damage in accordance with shall Section 1207.11.7.1 or 1207.11.7.2 shall be provided with impact protection in accordance with Section 1207.11.7.3. be protected by approved barriers. Appliances in garages shall also be installed in accordance with Section 304.3 of the International Mechanical Code. Add new text as follows: 1207.11.7.1 Garages. Where an ESS is installed in the normal driving path of vehicle travel within a garage, impact protection complying with Section 1207.11.3 shall be installed. The normal driving path is a line perpendicular to the garage vehicle opening to the back wall, extending 3 ft. (914 mm) to either side along the back wall and to a height of 48 in. (1219 mm), (See Figure 1207.11.7.1) Exception: Where the clear height of the vehicle garage opening is 7 ft 6 in, (2286 mm) or less, ESS installed not less than 36 inches (914 mm) above finished floor are not subject to vehicle impact protection requirements. 1207.11.7.2 Other locations subject to vehicle impact. Where an ESS is installed in a location other than as defined in Section 1207.11.7.1, and is subject to vehicle damage, impact protection shall be provided in accordance with Section 1207.11.7.3. 1207.11.7.3 Impact Protection Options. Where ESS is required to be protected from impact in accordance with Section 1207.11.7.1 or 1207.11.7.2 such protection shall comply with one of the following: 1. Bollards constructed in accordance with one of the following: 1.1 48 inches (1219 mm) in length by 3 inches (76mm) in diameter schedule. 80 steel pipe embedded in a concrete pier 12 inches (304 mm) deep and 6 inches (152 mm) in diameter, with 36 inches (914 mm) of pipe exposed, filled with concrete, and spaced at a maximum interval of 5 feet (1524 mm). Each bollard shall be located not less than 6 inches (152 mm) from an ESS. 1.2 36 inches (914 mm) in height by 3 inches (76 mm) in diameter schedule 80 steel pipe fully welded to an 8 inches (203 mm) by 8 inches (203 mm) by ¼ inch (6.4 mm) thick steel plate and bolted to a concrete floor by means of 4 - ½ inch (13 mm) concrete anchors with 3 inch (76 mm) minimum embedment. Spacing shall be not greater than 60 inches. (1524 mm), and each bollard shall be located not less than 6 inches (152 mm) from the ESS. 1.3 Pre-manufactured steel pipe bollards shall be filled with concrete and anchored in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions, with spacing not greater than a 60 inches. (1524 mm). Located not less than 6 inches (152mm) from the ESS. Hi Wrenches, The 2023 IRC has been modified with some code that I helped create. Here is a link that has a pretty recent draft of this code. This code (with slight edits) has been adopted by the ICC and will become code January 1 2023. See page 486. https://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/IFC-2021-Group-A-2021-Group-A-Aug-13.pdf *With Regard,* *Vince Jolissaint* *Cobalt Power Systems Inc. |* *Director of CAD Services*2557 Wyandotte St. | Mountain View CA 94043 Office: 650.938.9574 | E-Mail Vincentj at cobaltpower.com > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 09:15:23 -0500 > From: > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Subject: [RE-wrenches] IRC 328 and ESS...approved barriers and > "subject to" damage > Message-ID: <04e301d84377$6e935c30$4bba1490$@solarcentex.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Good morning, Wrenches. > > > > We all discuss the NEC when it comes to ESS but the section in > International > Residential Code (IRC) R328 is something to look at carefully. > > > > Easy to miss is the requirement to extend fire alarm systems to garage > spaces where we quite often install the ESS. > > But the section in R328.8 Protection from impact is what worries me as it > is > so open ended. Here is what I wrote to a city inspector: > > "I'd like to review this open-ended section of R328 and how you interpret > it, please. > > > > We intend to mount the ESS within an attached garage but we position so as > to prevent damage from vehicles coming into their normal parking space. > Having said that, a vehicle that moved five further feet forward might in > fact run into an ESS. So do you read "subject to" as in normal, due course > or do you consider the very worst scenario / accident? > > And what approved barriers have you seen that comply to your satisfaction > in > xxxxx." > > > > What do you all do for R328? > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Tue Mar 29 13:33:57 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 10:33:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Equipment for 400 Amp Service Supply Side & 2 200s In-Reply-To: <84bbb4d9-73ca-f7a3-2d2c-952b3541326b@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <84bbb4d9-73ca-f7a3-2d2c-952b3541326b@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff - There are several 400 A (or 320 A continuous) meter/mains on the market with 2 x 200 A breakers. In the Bay Area these are frequently referred to as "California 400" panels, even though they are installed with a self contained 320 A rated utility meter, rather than a 400 A CT-meter. They are great for systems with large energy storage, because one 200 A breaker can feed non-backup loads and the other 200 A breaker can feed backup loads and solar. Anyway, here's one such example: https://www.milbankworks.com/products/catalog/M400-UG-APS-LC Best, August Luminalt On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 10:15 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good Day Wrenches, > > Does anyone know of a 400 Amp Meter/Main that can accomplish the following? > > 1) Provide 2 x 200 Main Breakers for Loads > 2) Provide an easy supply side tap point for 160 Amps of Grid-tie Solar > (so basically a 200 Amp backfeed) > > I'm considering using an Eaton 324 N > > (Eaton B-Line 324 N 400A, 320 A cont. 4P, 4 Jaw, Meter Socket W Link Bypass > Facilities) but I'm not sure I can double lug it and then also tap off of > one of the 200 Amp lines with another tap (using Ilsco IPC-250-4/0 > > splice connectors). > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > linkedin > > > linkedin > www.villagelab.net > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vincentj at cobaltpower.com Tue Mar 29 13:38:16 2022 From: vincentj at cobaltpower.com (Vincent Jolissaint) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 10:38:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=8BEquipment_for_400_Amp_Service_Su?= =?utf-8?q?pply_Side_=26_200A_PV?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jeff, I prefer this panel for this need. it has a dedicated left side for (2) @100A breakers max or (1) @ 200A max PV backfeed. https://assets.new.siemens.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:4e2c50f4-f20a-481c-8cb4-bd817cd7cb04/sie-fl-400srmetercombo.pdf In addition, it has all the features of a typical 2x200A service panel. *With Regard,* *Vince Jolissaint* *Cobalt Power Systems Inc. |* *Director of CAD Services*2557 Wyandotte St. | Mountain View CA 94043 Office: 650.938.9574 | E-Mail Vincentj at cobaltpower.com > From: Jeff Clearwater > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Equipment for 400 Amp Service Supply Side & 2 > 200s > Message-ID: > <84bbb4d9-73ca-f7a3-2d2c-952b3541326b at villagepowerdesign.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Good Day Wrenches, > > Does anyone know of a 400 Amp Meter/Main that can accomplish the following? > > 1)? Provide 2 x 200 Main Breakers for Loads > 2) Provide an easy supply side tap point for 160 Amps of Grid-tie Solar > (so basically a 200 Amp backfeed) > > I'm considering using an Eaton 324 N > < > https://www.rexelusa.com/p/525405/eaton-b-line/400a-4p-4-jaw-meter-socket/782051622102/324-n>? > > (Eaton B-Line 324 N 400A, 320 A cont. 4P, 4 Jaw, Meter Socket W Link > Bypass Facilities) but I'm not sure I can double lug it and then also > tap off of one of the 200 Amp lines with another tap (using Ilsco > IPC-250-4/0 > < > https://www.ilsco.com/Ilsco/ccrz__ProductDetails?sku=IPC-250-4%2F0-ILSM-ILS&cclcl=en_US> > > splice connectors). > > Thanks! > > Jeff > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > linkedin > > > linkedin > www.villagelab.net > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue Mar 29 13:55:27 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 12:55:27 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?b?4oCLSVJDIDMyOCBhbmQgRVNTLi4uYXBwcm92ZWQg?= =?utf-8?q?barriers_and_=22subject_to=22_damage?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <089b01d84396$2ce6aca0$86b405e0$@solarcentex.com> This is excellent – thank you. I offered back to the inspector that this language is much more precise than the open-end IRC language. Will advise all what is returned. Scot From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Vincent Jolissaint via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 12:31 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Vincent Jolissaint Subject: [RE-wrenches] ​IRC 328 and ESS...approved barriers and "subject to" damage 2021 International Fire Code Revise as follows: 1207.11.7 Protection from impact. Stationary storage battery systems ESS installed in a location subject to vehicle damage in accordance with shall Section 1207.11.7.1 or 1207.11.7.2 shall be provided with impact protection in accordance with Section 1207.11.7.3. be protected by approved barriers. Appliances in garages shall also be installed in accordance with Section 304.3 of the International Mechanical Code. Add new text as follows: 1207.11.7.1 Garages. Where an ESS is installed in the normal driving path of vehicle travel within a garage, impact protection complying with Section 1207.11.3 shall be installed. The normal driving path is a line perpendicular to the garage vehicle opening to the back wall, extending 3 ft. (914 mm) to either side along the back wall and to a height of 48 in. (1219 mm), (See Figure 1207.11.7.1) Exception: Where the clear height of the vehicle garage opening is 7 ft 6 in, (2286 mm) or less, ESS installed not less than 36 inches (914 mm) above finished floor are not subject to vehicle impact protection requirements. 1207.11.7.2 Other locations subject to vehicle impact. Where an ESS is installed in a location other than as defined in Section 1207.11.7.1, and is subject to vehicle damage, impact protection shall be provided in accordance with Section 1207.11.7.3. 1207.11.7.3 Impact Protection Options. Where ESS is required to be protected from impact in accordance with Section 1207.11.7.1 or 1207.11.7.2 such protection shall comply with one of the following: 1. Bollards constructed in accordance with one of the following: 1.1 48 inches (1219 mm) in length by 3 inches (76mm) in diameter schedule. 80 steel pipe embedded in a concrete pier 12 inches (304 mm) deep and 6 inches (152 mm) in diameter, with 36 inches (914 mm) of pipe exposed, filled with concrete, and spaced at a maximum interval of 5 feet (1524 mm). Each bollard shall be located not less than 6 inches (152 mm) from an ESS. 1.2 36 inches (914 mm) in height by 3 inches (76 mm) in diameter schedule 80 steel pipe fully welded to an 8 inches (203 mm) by 8 inches (203 mm) by ¼ inch (6.4 mm) thick steel plate and bolted to a concrete floor by means of 4 - ½ inch (13 mm) concrete anchors with 3 inch (76 mm) minimum embedment. Spacing shall be not greater than 60 inches. (1524 mm), and each bollard shall be located not less than 6 inches (152 mm) from the ESS. 1.3 Pre-manufactured steel pipe bollards shall be filled with concrete and anchored in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions, with spacing not greater than a 60 inches. (1524 mm). Located not less than 6 inches (152mm) from the ESS. Hi Wrenches, The 2023 IRC has been modified with some code that I helped create. Here is a link that has a pretty recent draft of this code. This code (with slight edits) has been adopted by the ICC and will become code January 1 2023. See page 486. https://www.iccsafe.org/wp-content/uploads/IFC-2021-Group-A-2021-Group-A-Aug-13.pdf With Regard, Vince Jolissaint Cobalt Power Systems Inc. | Director of CAD Services 2557 Wyandotte St. | Mountain View CA 94043 Office: 650.938.9574 | E-Mail Vincentj at cobaltpower.com Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 09:15:23 -0500 From: > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Subject: [RE-wrenches] IRC 328 and ESS...approved barriers and "subject to" damage Message-ID: <04e301d84377$6e935c30$4bba1490$@solarcentex.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good morning, Wrenches. We all discuss the NEC when it comes to ESS but the section in International Residential Code (IRC) R328 is something to look at carefully. Easy to miss is the requirement to extend fire alarm systems to garage spaces where we quite often install the ESS. But the section in R328.8 Protection from impact is what worries me as it is so open ended. Here is what I wrote to a city inspector: "I'd like to review this open-ended section of R328 and how you interpret it, please. We intend to mount the ESS within an attached garage but we position so as to prevent damage from vehicles coming into their normal parking space. Having said that, a vehicle that moved five further feet forward might in fact run into an ESS. So do you read "subject to" as in normal, due course or do you consider the very worst scenario / accident? And what approved barriers have you seen that comply to your satisfaction in xxxxx." What do you all do for R328? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Tue Mar 29 14:35:39 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 11:35:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=8BEquipment_for_400_Amp_Service_S?= =?utf-8?q?upply_Side_=26_200A_PV?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Vincent- thanks I’ve used this panel in the past but do you you know if “Manual Bypass” is the same as test link bypass - suitable for PGE/Western Utilities? Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 29, 2022, at 10:38 AM, Vincent Jolissaint via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi Jeff, > > I prefer this panel for this need. it has a dedicated left side for (2) @100A breakers max or (1) @ 200A max PV backfeed. > > https://assets.new.siemens.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:4e2c50f4-f20a-481c-8cb4-bd817cd7cb04/sie-fl-400srmetercombo.pdf > > In addition, it has all the features of a typical 2x200A service panel. > > > With Regard, > Vince Jolissaint > Cobalt Power Systems Inc. | Director of CAD Services > 2557 Wyandotte St. | Mountain View CA 94043 > Office: 650.938.9574 | E-Mail Vincentj at cobaltpower.com > >> >> From: Jeff Clearwater >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Equipment for 400 Amp Service Supply Side & 2 >> 200s >> Message-ID: >> <84bbb4d9-73ca-f7a3-2d2c-952b3541326b at villagepowerdesign.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" >> >> Good Day Wrenches, >> >> Does anyone know of a 400 Amp Meter/Main that can accomplish the following? >> >> 1)? Provide 2 x 200 Main Breakers for Loads >> 2) Provide an easy supply side tap point for 160 Amps of Grid-tie Solar >> (so basically a 200 Amp backfeed) >> >> I'm considering using an Eaton 324 N >> ? >> (Eaton B-Line 324 N 400A, 320 A cont. 4P, 4 Jaw, Meter Socket W Link >> Bypass Facilities) but I'm not sure I can double lug it and then also >> tap off of one of the 200 Amp lines with another tap (using Ilsco >> IPC-250-4/0 >> >> splice connectors). >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jeff >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jeff Clearwater >> linkedin >> >> >> linkedin >> www.villagelab.net >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> cell - 413-559-9763** > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Tue Mar 29 14:43:51 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 11:43:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Equipment for 400 Amp Service Supply Side & 2 200s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A22C89C-7B0A-4D3B-9EBD-D8F2CBADA803@villagepowerdesign.com> Thanks August yes but am I missing where you put the third tap for the PV backfeed? I need 2 x 200 amp mains plus a 200 amp pv backfees point and the meter needs to have test bypass links. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 29, 2022, at 10:34 AM, August Goers wrote: > >  > Hi Jeff - > > There are several 400 A (or 320 A continuous) meter/mains on the market with 2 x 200 A breakers. In the Bay Area these are frequently referred to as "California 400" panels, even though they are installed with a self contained 320 A rated utility meter, rather than a 400 A CT-meter. They are great for systems with large energy storage, because one 200 A breaker can feed non-backup loads and the other 200 A breaker can feed backup loads and solar. Anyway, here's one such example: > > https://www.milbankworks.com/products/catalog/M400-UG-APS-LC > > Best, > > August > Luminalt > > >> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 10:15 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Good Day Wrenches, >> >> Does anyone know of a 400 Amp Meter/Main that can accomplish the following? >> >> 1) Provide 2 x 200 Main Breakers for Loads >> 2) Provide an easy supply side tap point for 160 Amps of Grid-tie Solar (so basically a 200 Amp backfeed) >> >> I'm considering using an Eaton 324 N (Eaton B-Line 324 N 400A, 320 A cont. 4P, 4 Jaw, Meter Socket W Link Bypass Facilities) but I'm not sure I can double lug it and then also tap off of one of the 200 Amp lines with another tap (using Ilsco IPC-250-4/0 splice connectors). >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jeff >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jeff Clearwater >> linkedin >> >> >> >> linkedin >> www.villagelab.net >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> cell - 413-559-9763 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Tue Mar 29 14:59:08 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 11:59:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Equipment for 400 Amp Service Supply Side & 2 200s In-Reply-To: <0A22C89C-7B0A-4D3B-9EBD-D8F2CBADA803@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <0A22C89C-7B0A-4D3B-9EBD-D8F2CBADA803@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff - There is no particular supply side connection location on this panel - I think if you needed that it is best to go with the Siemens part that Vincent sent over. However, you could use the sum of all breakers rule on the internal bus and install up to 200 A of solar breakers in the panel. Then, use the other 200 A main breaker to feed your loads. If your loads are larger than 200 A, I suppose this won't work. August On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM Jeff Clearwater < jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > Thanks August yes but am I missing where you put the third tap for the PV > backfeed? I need 2 x 200 amp mains plus a 200 amp pv backfees point and > the meter needs to have test bypass links. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 29, 2022, at 10:34 AM, August Goers wrote: > >  > Hi Jeff - > > There are several 400 A (or 320 A continuous) meter/mains on the market > with 2 x 200 A breakers. In the Bay Area these are frequently referred to > as "California 400" panels, even though they are installed with a self > contained 320 A rated utility meter, rather than a 400 A CT-meter. They are > great for systems with large energy storage, because one 200 A breaker can > feed non-backup loads and the other 200 A breaker can feed backup loads and > solar. Anyway, here's one such example: > > https://www.milbankworks.com/products/catalog/M400-UG-APS-LC > > Best, > > August > Luminalt > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 10:15 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Good Day Wrenches, >> >> Does anyone know of a 400 Amp Meter/Main that can accomplish the >> following? >> >> 1) Provide 2 x 200 Main Breakers for Loads >> 2) Provide an easy supply side tap point for 160 Amps of Grid-tie Solar >> (so basically a 200 Amp backfeed) >> >> I'm considering using an Eaton 324 N >> >> (Eaton B-Line 324 N 400A, 320 A cont. 4P, 4 Jaw, Meter Socket W Link Bypass >> Facilities) but I'm not sure I can double lug it and then also tap off of >> one of the 200 Amp lines with another tap (using Ilsco IPC-250-4/0 >> >> splice connectors). >> >> Thanks! >> >> Jeff >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jeff Clearwater >> linkedin >> >> >> >> linkedin >> www.villagelab.net >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> cell - 413-559-9763 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Mar 29 15:49:35 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 15:49:35 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Equipment for 400 Amp Service Supply Side & 2 200s In-Reply-To: References: <0A22C89C-7B0A-4D3B-9EBD-D8F2CBADA803@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: In this case, we would just do a feeder tap on the feeder that comes straight from the main breaker (not the feeder that comes from the feed-through lugs) and install a 200A circuit breaker on the load side of the PV interconnection. If your utility does not require a utility-accessible disconnect switch, you can just do the feeder tap in the subpanel that comes directly from the service disconnect and install a main breaker in the subpanel. See attached diagrams. Square D makes a CSED that has two 200A disconnects PLUS a 200A bus with up to four 2-pole service disconnects (this bus is not a feed-through). However, those 2-pole disconnects can only be a maximum of 125A each. If you have a smaller system, these breaker positions work well in many circumstances, but the 120% rule or sum of breakers rule may come into play for the bus. Technically this is a bit of a gray area, because this bus is not protected at all by a primary supply OCPD, so it's not specifically addressed in the code. This really isn't a "load side" interconnection - your AHJ may consider each breaker position a line side interconnection (since each breaker is a service disconnect) and none of the load side provisions apply. Or they may say the intent of the code is to protect the bus and apply the load side requirements. You could presumably split your system into two systems and feed two 100A breakers on this bus and meet the rapid shutdown requirement, especially if there are no other loads on the bus (sum of the breakers rule). Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 2:59 PM August Goers via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Jeff - > > There is no particular supply side connection location on this panel - I > think if you needed that it is best to go with the Siemens part that > Vincent sent over. > > However, you could use the sum of all breakers rule on the internal bus > and install up to 200 A of solar breakers in the panel. Then, use the other > 200 A main breaker to feed your loads. If your loads are larger than 200 A, > I suppose this won't work. > > August > > > On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM Jeff Clearwater < > jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com> wrote: > >> Thanks August yes but am I missing where you put the third tap for the PV >> backfeed? I need 2 x 200 amp mains plus a 200 amp pv backfees point and >> the meter needs to have test bypass links. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Mar 29, 2022, at 10:34 AM, August Goers wrote: >> >>  >> Hi Jeff - >> >> There are several 400 A (or 320 A continuous) meter/mains on the market >> with 2 x 200 A breakers. In the Bay Area these are frequently referred to >> as "California 400" panels, even though they are installed with a self >> contained 320 A rated utility meter, rather than a 400 A CT-meter. They are >> great for systems with large energy storage, because one 200 A breaker can >> feed non-backup loads and the other 200 A breaker can feed backup loads and >> solar. Anyway, here's one such example: >> >> https://www.milbankworks.com/products/catalog/M400-UG-APS-LC >> >> >> Best, >> >> August >> Luminalt >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 10:15 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Good Day Wrenches, >>> >>> Does anyone know of a 400 Amp Meter/Main that can accomplish the >>> following? >>> >>> 1) Provide 2 x 200 Main Breakers for Loads >>> 2) Provide an easy supply side tap point for 160 Amps of Grid-tie Solar >>> (so basically a 200 Amp backfeed) >>> >>> I'm considering using an Eaton 324 N >>> >>> (Eaton B-Line 324 N 400A, 320 A cont. 4P, 4 Jaw, Meter Socket W Link Bypass >>> Facilities) but I'm not sure I can double lug it and then also tap off of >>> one of the 200 Amp lines with another tap (using Ilsco IPC-250-4/0 >>> >>> splice connectors). >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Jeff Clearwater >>> linkedin >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Load Side Feeder Tap 400A Meter Main.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 75910 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Alternative - no utiltiy disco needed.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 79085 bytes Desc: not available URL: From coresolar at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 21:51:32 2022 From: coresolar at gmail.com (Corey Shalanski) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 20:51:32 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lead placment and length on new PV Panels In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, My team and I are constantly strategizing about the issue you have described, pretty much on a project-by-project basis nowadays since our module supplier's stock changes frequently. Each new module's lead cable positioning and lengths must be examined for compatibility with the specified MLPE device. Our process typically involves creating a CAD sketch of the wire management details, aiming to follow the 2020 NEC securement rules (within 12" of each junction box, spans not to exceed 24" elsewhere) as closely as possible. We have come to the determination that certain module lead cable configurations are simply not 'MLPE-friendly'; in particular, modules with split junction boxes and short lead cable lengths (≤ 250 mm) appear to be tailor made for non-roof-mounted arrays where rapid shutdown devices are unnecessary. I wish I could say that we avoid using those modules for rooftop arrays, but the truth is that we sometimes don't have the option to pick-and-choose a certain project's spec module. There are definitely times when the cables on the module and the cables on the MLPE aren't quite long enough to connect to each other—for those times, as Jay suggested, we will specify jumper cables to make up the difference. We have found the design of the APsmart RSD-S-PLC to be one of the more flexible (and less visually obtrusive) options. With the input/output cables extending to either side of the device (*along* the module frame as opposed to *away from* it), they seem to be better suited to the 'long-edge leaded modules' you describe on your web page. -- Corey Shalanski Jah Light Solar Portland, Jamaica On Fri, Mar 25, 2022 at 3:22 PM William Miller wrote: > > Friends: > > > > I have been designing a large-ish off-grid system over the last few > weeks. This will be our first off-grid system to require MLRSS. We chose > the Tigo TS4-A-F system. > > > > In order to make certain the Tigo will work with modules that we can get > our hands on, we brought in a few samples to try and connect with the > Tigos. What we found is that with many of the new PV panels, the leads > connect to the two long sides of the panels and are often too short to > practically route to the frame-mounted Tigos. > > > > This got me to thinking: Many panels are now configured with leads > connected to the two long sides. Many new panels are coming out with > shorter leads. Virtually all new roof-mounted installation will need some > form of MLPE. These new panels will be ill-suited to connect to those MLPE > devices. > > > > This has to do with the fact that instead of in the old days, when each > panel connected to a neighbor on either side, each panel now connects to a > single device, the MLPE. The leads must able to reach that MLPE without > being pulled, banjo-string-tight across a void. If PV leads cannot be > supported, they will end of laying on the roof. Can we agree that is a bad > thing? > > > > Have any of you consider this situation? It is kind of complicated and > hard to explain. I attempted to do so by writing a web page dedicated to > the subject. I finished the site today but I am not sure it communicates > the dilemma adequately. You can find it here > > . > > > > I would be most grateful if some of you more experienced installers could > look this over and let me know if this problem has come across your radar > and what you are doing about this issue. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Wed Mar 30 01:54:39 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2022 22:54:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Coming back to this Blake - seems to me you need a platform type rack that has a tilt-up set of legs. The Nuance Osprey is such a rack - though I think they only go up to 35º but I think it could be easily adapted.  They use Earth Anchors but can also be mounted to sonotubes or even ground screws. It's beefy strong - no aluminum - just might work with heavy snow. https://nuanceenergy.com/solar-products/osprey-powerplatform It's possible having two in portrait makes for too high a vertical but perhaps using 60 cell modules instead of 72 might make it workable. Just a thought - hope it helps! Best, ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater linkedin www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches > March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM > Hi all, > > I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions. > > I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking > systems to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical > position) or "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the > winter (snow) season?  Or ideas for a completely different approach to > solving the challenge I'm facing? > > I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a > small commercial community center facility.  The facility is > accessible and in use only during the summer months.  So, I want to > optimize production for the summer, and also avoid having the array > destroyed by the heavy Sierra snow during the winter. > > To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints: > > - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods) > - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely > surrounding all roof options) > - Must be relatively low profile, visually.  Pole mount not an option > - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 > arrays (13' x 45') > - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile) > > There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to > "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively > straightforward. > > At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and > un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath > the nearby deck for the winter.  I'd like to think there might be a > more "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and > tear on the modules over the years).  I wondered if there's a clever > way to "drop" the modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could > remain in place during the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and > release at the bottom).  I guess this might require individual rows of > modules instead of one large array. > > (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) > operational through the winter for battery maintenance and a few > incidental loads.  These could be vertically mounted on the south side > of one of the buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.) > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that > haven't worked, etc!! > > Best, > Blake > > -- > > Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner > Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence > O: 510-845-2997 x128 > C: 510-867-5878 > > 1035 Folger Ave. > Berkeley, CA 94710 > www.sunlightandpower.com > License #326203 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 49098 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tump at swnl.net Wed Mar 30 08:55:16 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 08:55:16 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34147A35-A777-490F-AA1A-1F9025853594@swnl.net> I have found that after the first year the customer, after fighting w/ tilt up legs, that the array will usually end up in a single angle. It would seem to me w/ the # of proposed modules you look at a motorized tilt option. There are companies, that design & build this type of rack for commercial apps. they would be able to scale down something that would address your needs. Design it 10 different ways, build it once! > On Mar 30, 2022, at 1:54 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Coming back to this Blake - seems to me you need a platform type rack that has a tilt-up set of legs. > > The Nuance Osprey is such a rack - though I think they only go up to 35º but I think it could be easily adapted. They use Earth Anchors but can also be mounted to sonotubes or even ground screws. > > It's beefy strong - no aluminum - just might work with heavy snow. > > https://nuanceenergy.com/solar-products/osprey-powerplatform > > It's possible having two in portrait makes for too high a vertical but perhaps using 60 cell modules instead of 72 might make it workable. > > Just a thought - hope it helps! > > Best, > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > linkedin > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > >> Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM >> Hi all, >> >> I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions. >> >> I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking systems to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical position) or "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the winter (snow) season? Or ideas for a completely different approach to solving the challenge I'm facing? >> >> I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a small commercial community center facility. The facility is accessible and in use only during the summer months. So, I want to optimize production for the summer, and also avoid having the array destroyed by the heavy Sierra snow during the winter. >> >> To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints: >> >> - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods) >> - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely surrounding all roof options) >> - Must be relatively low profile, visually. Pole mount not an option >> - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 arrays (13' x 45') >> - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile) >> >> There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively straightforward. >> >> At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath the nearby deck for the winter. I'd like to think there might be a more "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and tear on the modules over the years). I wondered if there's a clever way to "drop" the modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could remain in place during the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and release at the bottom). I guess this might require individual rows of modules instead of one large array. >> >> (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) operational through the winter for battery maintenance and a few incidental loads. These could be vertically mounted on the south side of one of the buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.) >> >> Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that haven't worked, etc!! >> >> Best, >> Blake >> >> -- >> >> Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner >> Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence >> O: 510-845-2997 x128 >> C: 510-867-5878 >> >> 1035 Folger Ave. >> Berkeley, CA 94710 >> www.sunlightandpower.com >> License #326203 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Mar 31 10:49:10 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 07:49:10 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA AFCI events and ferrite cores In-Reply-To: <34147A35-A777-490F-AA1A-1F9025853594@swnl.net> References: <34147A35-A777-490F-AA1A-1F9025853594@swnl.net> Message-ID: <6afad4dc-b5f5-c915-01e3-67c80f1029c7@psln.com> Wrenchers,             In searching the list I saw ferrite cores discussed for EMP and Enphase but a tech at SMA just told me I can put the DC conductors through ferrite cores to prevent false AFCI events in their SB-40 and -41 inverters.  Is this a thing? are folks doing this with success? Any tricks to installation?...seems straight forward. Thanks, Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From william at millersolar.com Fri Apr 1 01:19:37 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2022 22:19:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 In-Reply-To: <8B7AE918-773F-433E-9709-295ADF4A72BF@yahoo.com> References: <8B7AE918-773F-433E-9709-295ADF4A72BF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wrenches: I found some on-line pump HP calculators, such as this one. Plugging in 1 gpm of water pumped to 300 feet elevation results in 0.1 HP, not 5. I have no idea how Daryl arrived at 5 HP. Plugging in the 10 gpm we want, the HP required is a little over 1. I tried several calculators and worked the formula myself and all approaches resulted in the same answer. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* Wesley Kennedy [mailto:hathasolar at yahoo.com] *Sent:* Monday, March 28, 2022 9:58 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* William Miller; Darryl Thayer *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 Hi Darryl, I’d love to see that math on that.you mind sharing? -Wes 303-653-3073 On Mar 27, 2022, at 1:27 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:  Hello, Sorry to be so late but I have been overloaded. Just a note on physics of lifting water. The calculation indicates if you pump 1 gallon per minute up 300 feet it required a water hp of 5 HP Use this base number and good pumps are about 70% efficient. If the flow rate is not 1 GPM adjust the HP accordingly. For example, if you want to pump 10 GPM it requires 50 HP or if you want to pump 10 Gallons / day it requires (50HP/ 24h 60min )requiring 0,035 HP.. Again I apologize for delay. On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:33 AM William Miller wrote: Hilton: A valid point. However in this region wells often do not recharge as well as we might like. In these cases, to meet gallons per day you have to pump long and slow--more hours per day than the sun will be up. That means of course generator or battery storage. The economics have shifted from when I started installing direct-DC water pumping. The money that is being spent today to provide commercial ag water is beyond what I would have comprehended back then. This means new technology--and questions need to be asked, including considering battery storage. Thanks for your reply. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Hilton Dier Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 6:56 PM To: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 Here’s a lateral take on this. A 500 gallon poly water tank is far cheaper than the batteries needed to fill it. Years ago I rigged up a seasonal pump system for a man who had two ponds on his property. The lower one was well fed by a spring but the upper one wasn’t. I used a 200 watt DC piston pump and a couple of modules with a linear current booster. A couple of breakers but no batteries. It just chugged away quietly all (moderately sunny) day, filling the upper pond. Using a positive displacement pump is key for minimizing power requirements. At 300 feet that’s about 125 psi, which is not out of line for a piston pump. Fill a big poly tank and pressurize it with a small DC diaphragm pump if necessary. Simple, efficient, cheap. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From travis at jordansolar.net Fri Apr 1 10:37:14 2022 From: travis at jordansolar.net (Travis Jordan) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 08:37:14 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? Message-ID: Blake, You might try David Katz's single row system on 4" posts, it would tilt to vertical and only be one mod high in portrait. He does not have engineering on it, but it is very beefy and would have no issues as long as you tilted it up in winter. I am very interested in more info on what you have in mind, if his solution won't work for you we might be able to build something custom that fits your needs. We have always reverted to an adjustable multi-pole mount solution set very low to the ground for these situations, sometimes dropping to only 3 or in some cases 2 mods high in landscape (about the same height as one mod in portrait) to cut down on the visual impact, but if you want to stand it vertical in winter it will end up being that many mods straight up... or were you thinking of standing it up differently? If the mods can handle the snow load we could design the rack to handle a couple hundred psf snow load at only a couple mods high and just leave them at summer tilt? Feel free to PM me if you want to brainstorm a custom solution, I am a sucker for strange projects. Direct email: travis at mtsolar.us *Travis Jordan* travis at jordansolar.net *406-206-5070* *Jordan Solar* *jordansolar.net* ᐧ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 11:00:15 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 10:00:15 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 In-Reply-To: References: <8B7AE918-773F-433E-9709-295ADF4A72BF@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you William, I did it from memory, which I should not trust at 85 it is screwy I should have gone back to 'first principles' instead of trusting the memory of an old job. Thank you On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 9:23 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches: > > > > I found some on-line pump HP calculators, such as this > one. Plugging in 1 > gpm of water pumped to 300 feet elevation results in 0.1 HP, not 5. I have > no idea how Daryl arrived at 5 HP. > > > > Plugging in the 10 gpm we want, the HP required is a little over 1. I > tried several calculators and worked the formula myself and all approaches > resulted in the same answer. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* Wesley Kennedy [mailto:hathasolar at yahoo.com] > *Sent:* Monday, March 28, 2022 9:58 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* William Miller; Darryl Thayer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 > > > > Hi Darryl, > > I’d love to see that math on that.you mind sharing? > > -Wes > > 303-653-3073 > > > > > > On Mar 27, 2022, at 1:27 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Hello, Sorry to be so late but I have been overloaded. Just a note on > physics of lifting water. The calculation indicates if you pump 1 gallon > per minute up 300 feet it required a water hp of 5 HP > > Use this base number and good pumps are about 70% efficient. If the flow > rate is not 1 GPM adjust the HP accordingly. For example, if you want to > pump 10 GPM it requires 50 HP or if you want to pump 10 Gallons / day it > requires (50HP/ 24h 60min )requiring 0,035 HP.. > > Again I apologize for delay. > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:33 AM William Miller > wrote: > > Hilton: > > A valid point. However in this region wells often do not recharge as well > as we might like. In these cases, to meet gallons per day you have to pump > long and slow--more hours per day than the sun will be up. That means of > course generator or battery storage. > > The economics have shifted from when I started installing direct-DC water > pumping. The money that is being spent today to provide commercial ag > water > is beyond what I would have comprehended back then. This means new > technology--and questions need to be asked, including considering battery > storage. > > Thanks for your reply. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Hilton Dier > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 6:56 PM > To: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7 > > Here’s a lateral take on this. A 500 gallon poly water tank is far cheaper > than the batteries needed to fill it. > > Years ago I rigged up a seasonal pump system for a man who had two ponds on > his property. The lower one was well fed by a spring but the upper one > wasn’t. > I used a 200 watt DC piston pump and a couple of modules with a linear > current booster. A couple of breakers but no batteries. It just chugged > away > quietly all (moderately sunny) day, filling the upper pond. > > Using a positive displacement pump is key for minimizing power > requirements. > At 300 feet that’s about 125 psi, which is not out of line for a piston > pump. Fill a big poly tank and pressurize it with a small DC diaphragm pump > if necessary. > > Simple, efficient, cheap. > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 1 12:29:28 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 12:29:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark grid tie question Message-ID: If you set up the inverter in a straight grid tie mode, does it still pass power through to the load terminals when on grid? I ask this, because a client wants us to connect it with a backup load panel but no battery right now. He wants to add the battery later. My other thought is to install a bypass switch to pass grid power directly to the subpanel, which would act as a service bypass for the future anyway. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Fri Apr 1 14:29:02 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:29:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark grid tie question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, this will work just fine. I’ve not fully embraced a transition to their products for my clients yet but had one recently where the customer insisted on this for their project and I was in the exact scenario while we waited for the battery to arrive. No external bypass required for this reason. However it does not work without a minor setting activation and even then there was a 10-20 second delay before the relay is closed and the utility will pass through. Nick > On Apr 1, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > > If you set up the inverter in a straight grid tie mode, does it still pass power through to the load terminals when on grid? > > I ask this, because a client wants us to connect it with a backup load panel but no battery right now. He wants to add the battery later. > > My other thought is to install a bypass switch to pass grid power directly to the subpanel, which would act as a service bypass for the future anyway. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 1 14:52:38 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 14:52:38 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark grid tie question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fantastic. Thanks! As a follow up, he's considering connecting a battery bank with an Anderson connector. This is not the golf cart scenario I mentioned in another thread, but he wants to be able to wheel away his battery into storage. Don't ask me why... I can't figure it out myself. Do you see any issues with this? I guess the question I have is what happens when the battery is connected and he's on grid and he decides to disconnect the battery? I'm guessing nothing, but I could be wrong. Will he need to change the settings back to grid-tie only? Jason On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:29 PM Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jason, this will work just fine. I’ve not fully embraced a transition to > their products for my clients yet but had one recently where the customer > insisted on this for their project and I was in the exact scenario while we > waited for the battery to arrive. No external bypass required for this > reason. However it does not work without a minor setting activation and > even then there was a 10-20 second delay before the relay is closed and the > utility will pass through. > > Nick > > > > On Apr 1, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > If you set up the inverter in a straight grid tie mode, does it still > pass power through to the load terminals when on grid? > > > > I ask this, because a client wants us to connect it with a backup load > panel but no battery right now. He wants to add the battery later. > > > > My other thought is to install a bypass switch to pass grid power > directly to the subpanel, which would act as a service bypass for the > future anyway. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Florida Solar Design Group > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 15:09:35 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:09:35 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark grid tie question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jason, If he removes the battery bank, then the battery mode setting would need to be changed to “no battery”. Luckily, very easy setting to access either in front of the unit or remotely. Best, Chris On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:52 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Fantastic. Thanks! > > As a follow up, he's considering connecting a battery bank with an > Anderson connector. This is not the golf cart scenario I mentioned in > another thread, but he wants to be able to wheel away his battery into > storage. Don't ask me why... I can't figure it out myself. Do you see any > issues with this? I guess the question I have is what happens when the > battery is connected and he's on grid and he decides to disconnect the > battery? I'm guessing nothing, but I could be wrong. Will he need to change > the settings back to grid-tie only? > > Jason > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:29 PM Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Jason, this will work just fine. I’ve not fully embraced a transition to >> their products for my clients yet but had one recently where the customer >> insisted on this for their project and I was in the exact scenario while we >> waited for the battery to arrive. No external bypass required for this >> reason. However it does not work without a minor setting activation and >> even then there was a 10-20 second delay before the relay is closed and the >> utility will pass through. >> >> Nick >> >> >> > On Apr 1, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> > >> > If you set up the inverter in a straight grid tie mode, does it still >> pass power through to the load terminals when on grid? >> > >> > I ask this, because a client wants us to connect it with a backup load >> panel but no battery right now. He wants to add the battery later. >> > >> > My other thought is to install a bypass switch to pass grid power >> directly to the subpanel, which would act as a service bypass for the >> future anyway. >> > >> > Jason Szumlanski >> > Florida Solar Design Group >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Fri Apr 1 15:27:01 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 12:27:01 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark grid tie question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65401826-7910-d861-3d7e-c168a3fc5a54@villagepowerdesign.com> Hey Jason, So yes the Load will be hot with Grid Pass-thru - The Sol-Ark has 3 breakers - Grid (63A) - GEN (50A) - Load (63A) (European type breakers).  I have not experienced the delay that Nick observed but perhaps cause I've always had batteries on them. The nice thing is that with the software and phone app on both you will be able to program all settings remotely for the client. As to the Anderson battery disconnect idea - my biggest issue with all battery systems these days is folks not using proper OCP on Parallel batteries.  With 48 Volt Lithium now in small increments if you parallel 6 server rack type 100 A rated batteries together you are already at 600 amps and then if you parallel 4 racks of 6 you are at 2400 Amps! Yes each battery has a 100 A Breaker but I see few installers really dealing with the fault possibilities in between. Attached is a Victron Fuse setup I did for 30 100 AH batteries on 4 Sunny Islands.  It was 5 racks of 6 batteries.  I put each of the 5 racks on a 200 Amp Fuse and each Sunny Island on a 200 A fuse in this box. So with the Anderson's you might want to think what amperage fault potential is where when you unplug. Hope that helps! Best, Jeff > Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > > April 1, 2022 at 11:52 AM > Fantastic. Thanks! > > As a follow up, he's considering connecting a battery bank with an > Anderson connector. This is not the golf cart scenario I mentioned in > another thread, but he wants to be able to wheel away his battery into > storage. Don't ask me why... I can't figure it out myself. Do you see > any issues with this? I guess the question I have is what happens when > the battery is connected and he's on grid and he decides to disconnect > the battery? I'm guessing nothing, but I could be wrong. Will he need > to change the settings back to grid-tie only? > > Jason > > > > > > * > > * > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches > April 1, 2022 at 11:29 AM > Jason, this will work just fine. I’ve not fully embraced a transition > to their products for my clients yet but had one recently where the > customer insisted on this for their project and I was in the exact > scenario while we waited for the battery to arrive. No external bypass > required for this reason. However it does not work without a minor > setting activation and even then there was a 10-20 second delay before > the relay is closed and the utility will pass through. > > Nick > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > > April 1, 2022 at 9:29 AM > If you set up the inverter in a straight grid tie mode, does it still > pass power through to the load terminals when on grid? > > I ask this, because a client wants us to connect it with a backup load > panel but no battery right now. He wants to add the battery later. > > My other thought is to install a bypass switch to pass grid power > directly to the subpanel, which would act as a service bypass for the > future anyway. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8426.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 275401 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8425.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 277348 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 16:25:14 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:25:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark grid tie question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason The programming is different with a battery vs no battery so if he is removing the battery this may create an issue, I have not tried myself to disconnect a battery once in place Jerry On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 11:52 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Fantastic. Thanks! > > As a follow up, he's considering connecting a battery bank with an > Anderson connector. This is not the golf cart scenario I mentioned in > another thread, but he wants to be able to wheel away his battery into > storage. Don't ask me why... I can't figure it out myself. Do you see any > issues with this? I guess the question I have is what happens when the > battery is connected and he's on grid and he decides to disconnect the > battery? I'm guessing nothing, but I could be wrong. Will he need to change > the settings back to grid-tie only? > > Jason > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:29 PM Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Jason, this will work just fine. I’ve not fully embraced a transition to >> their products for my clients yet but had one recently where the customer >> insisted on this for their project and I was in the exact scenario while we >> waited for the battery to arrive. No external bypass required for this >> reason. However it does not work without a minor setting activation and >> even then there was a 10-20 second delay before the relay is closed and the >> utility will pass through. >> >> Nick >> >> >> > On Apr 1, 2022, at 9:29 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> > >> > If you set up the inverter in a straight grid tie mode, does it still >> pass power through to the load terminals when on grid? >> > >> > I ask this, because a client wants us to connect it with a backup load >> panel but no battery right now. He wants to add the battery later. >> > >> > My other thought is to install a bypass switch to pass grid power >> directly to the subpanel, which would act as a service bypass for the >> future anyway. >> > >> > Jason Szumlanski >> > Florida Solar Design Group >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mick at abrahamsolar.com Fri Apr 1 16:56:31 2022 From: mick at abrahamsolar.com (Mick Abraham) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 14:56:31 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter? Message-ID: Hello, Blake Gleason & All the Mechanix~ Travis Jordan astutely suggested "David Katz's single row system on 4" posts, it would tilt to vertical and only be one mod high in portrait." Mick here: If the site would accommodate something as wide & low as what Travis described, you might ask Array Technologies if they can still furnish their DuraRack AT "adjustable tilt" mounts. These resemble their single axis Duratrack trackers, but without the automation electronics. Each one can mount 12 to 16 modules laid out like playing cards side by side. Seasonal tilt adjustment is handled by a geared down linear actuator which in turn is driven by a cordless drill. Maximum tilt is 60 degrees from horizontal; maybe that's steep enough or maybe not in Blake's extreme jobsite. I never had a suitable customer to match up with this solution, so I have no direct experience with it. It might be worth a phone call to Albuquerque 505.881.7567. As always, "The Wrench List is the Bomb!" Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Landline: 970-731-4675 Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 ᐧ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 17:17:53 2022 From: spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com (No Name) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 14:17:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark grid tie question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It absolutely does. It works well in that scenario as well. No battery? No problem until the client decides to purchase and install some storage! Pretty versatile compared to a truly "Battery Based Inverter" like Schneider/Outback. . On Fri, Apr 1, 2022, 9:29 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > If you set up the inverter in a straight grid tie mode, does it still pass > power through to the load terminals when on grid? > > I ask this, because a client wants us to connect it with a backup load > panel but no battery right now. He wants to add the battery later. > > My other thought is to install a bypass switch to pass grid power directly > to the subpanel, which would act as a service bypass for the future anyway. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Mon Apr 4 12:12:21 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 10:12:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? Message-ID: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> Hey folks: We have a problem we just can’t figure out. We have a customer in OK with a simple array of eight Trina TSM 310-DD05H(II) modules, four stings of two modules into the combiner (Midnite MNPV6). Simple, right? He connects two modules, gets his 73.2VDC and lands his PV output leads on the circuit breaker and discovers he only has 39VDC. So, what are the possibilities? Loose connections at the MC4 connectors? Bad blocking diode? Ideas anyone? He’s in Henryetta, OK, and we cannot seem to find anyone local to help him. All ideas appreciated! Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777- 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry at starlightsolar.com Mon Apr 4 12:24:37 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (larrycrutcher) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:24:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? In-Reply-To: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> References: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <09619A66-94AA-40FF-B2D5-93084ACBFFCA@starlightsolar.com> Check short circuit (Vsc) on each string to see if a PV module is failing. Voc can be deceptive with no load. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Apr 4, 2022, at 9:12 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: Hey folks: We have a problem we just can’t figure out. We have a customer in OK with a simple array of eight Trina TSM 310-DD05H(II) modules, four stings of two modules into the combiner (Midnite MNPV6). Simple, right? He connects two modules, gets his 73.2VDC and lands his PV output leads on the circuit breaker and discovers he only has 39VDC. So, what are the possibilities? Loose connections at the MC4 connectors? Bad blocking diode? Ideas anyone? He’s in Henryetta, OK, and we cannot seem to find anyone local to help him. All ideas appreciated! Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777- 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 12:54:14 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 09:54:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? In-Reply-To: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> References: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Circuit breaker open or closed? On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 9:13 AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey folks: > > > > We have a problem we just can’t figure out. We have a customer in OK > with a simple array of eight Trina TSM 310-DD05H(II) modules, four stings > of two modules into the combiner (Midnite MNPV6). Simple, right? He > connects two modules, gets his 73.2VDC and lands his PV output leads on the > circuit breaker and discovers he only has 39VDC. So, what are the > possibilities? Loose connections at the MC4 connectors? Bad blocking > diode? Ideas anyone? > > > > He’s in Henryetta, OK, and we cannot seem to find anyone local to help > him. All ideas appreciated! > > > > Best, > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777- 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > *www.oasismontana.com* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reellison at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 13:19:30 2022 From: reellison at gmail.com (RE Ellison) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 13:19:30 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? In-Reply-To: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> References: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: If you disconnect MC connectors under load they will go bad really fast. They can’t tolerate any arcing at all when you disconnect them under load. I’ve run into this in the past but in this case the voltage getting through was even less. Bob Ellison > On Apr 4, 2022, at 12:13 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hey folks: > > We have a problem we just can’t figure out. We have a customer in OK with a simple array of eight Trina TSM 310-DD05H(II) modules, four stings of two modules into the combiner (Midnite MNPV6). Simple, right? He connects two modules, gets his 73.2VDC and lands his PV output leads on the circuit breaker and discovers he only has 39VDC. So, what are the possibilities? Loose connections at the MC4 connectors? Bad blocking diode? Ideas anyone? > > He’s in Henryetta, OK, and we cannot seem to find anyone local to help him. All ideas appreciated! > > Best, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777- 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry at starlightsolar.com Mon Apr 4 13:26:52 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (larrycrutcher) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 10:26:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? In-Reply-To: <09619A66-94AA-40FF-B2D5-93084ACBFFCA@starlightsolar.com> References: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> <09619A66-94AA-40FF-B2D5-93084ACBFFCA@starlightsolar.com> Message-ID: <83B0ABFC-AFC0-4A5B-82D4-F2F9F758C42D@starlightsolar.com> BTW, DC Clamp on meters are now cheap and feature rich and surprisingly reliable. Check out the UNI-T UT203. Cheap enough that we used these to give as gifts to customers. Larry On Apr 4, 2022, at 9:24 AM, larrycrutcher via RE-wrenches wrote: Check short circuit (Vsc) on each string to see if a PV module is failing. Voc can be deceptive with no load. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Apr 4, 2022, at 9:12 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: Hey folks: We have a problem we just can’t figure out. We have a customer in OK with a simple array of eight Trina TSM 310-DD05H(II) modules, four stings of two modules into the combiner (Midnite MNPV6). Simple, right? He connects two modules, gets his 73.2VDC and lands his PV output leads on the circuit breaker and discovers he only has 39VDC. So, what are the possibilities? Loose connections at the MC4 connectors? Bad blocking diode? Ideas anyone? He’s in Henryetta, OK, and we cannot seem to find anyone local to help him. All ideas appreciated! Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777- 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 18:54:55 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 16:54:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? In-Reply-To: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> References: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Does this happen with all 4 sets of 2 in series modules? jay > On Apr 4, 2022, at 10:12 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hey folks: > > We have a problem we just can’t figure out. We have a customer in OK with a simple array of eight Trina TSM 310-DD05H(II) modules, four stings of two modules into the combiner (Midnite MNPV6). Simple, right? He connects two modules, gets his 73.2VDC and lands his PV output leads on the circuit breaker and discovers he only has 39VDC. So, what are the possibilities? Loose connections at the MC4 connectors? Bad blocking diode? Ideas anyone? > > He’s in Henryetta, OK, and we cannot seem to find anyone local to help him. All ideas appreciated! > > Best, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777- 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathanjstumpff at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 20:03:41 2022 From: nathanjstumpff at gmail.com (Nathan J. Stumpff) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:03:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Single phase 277 V INV options? Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Are there any manufacturers still making a single phase INV option for a 277 Vac L-N configuration? This used to be fairly common (old Sunny Boys, etc.) but I’m striking out so far on modern options. Thanks, -Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Mon Apr 4 20:59:45 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (Pieter Huebner) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 19:59:45 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? In-Reply-To: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> References: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <003001d84888$71a46160$54ed2420$@offgridenterprises.org> Very surprising that you cannot find anybody local to help. The VOC is too low to begin with. Pieter From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Chris Daum via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, April 04, 2022 11:12 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: chris at OasisMontana.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wire short? Hey folks: We have a problem we just can’t figure out. We have a customer in OK with a simple array of eight Trina TSM 310-DD05H(II) modules, four stings of two modules into the combiner (Midnite MNPV6). Simple, right? He connects two modules, gets his 73.2VDC and lands his PV output leads on the circuit breaker and discovers he only has 39VDC. So, what are the possibilities? Loose connections at the MC4 connectors? Bad blocking diode? Ideas anyone? He’s in Henryetta, OK, and we cannot seem to find anyone local to help him. All ideas appreciated! Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777- 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 181796 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Mon Apr 4 21:53:31 2022 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2022 18:53:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin post In-Reply-To: <003001d84888$71a46160$54ed2420$@offgridenterprises.org> References: <001b01d8483e$c4452e30$4ccf8a90$@OasisMontana.com> <003001d84888$71a46160$54ed2420$@offgridenterprises.org> Message-ID: <1649123634757.7a853066025e723c@re-wrenches.org> Hi gang. If you have any questions, please respond off-list to me directly. This is a good opportunity to remind folks about the Biography listings. It is a pretty good resource for experienced wrenches if you are looking for some in a particular vicinity. I use the bio pages regularly for recommendations, as do others. So it is helpful for you all to make sure they are updated. There's a link to the bios page at the bottom of every Wrench list message. Thanks for all you do... He wrote at 05:59 PM 4/4/2022: >Very surprising that you cannot find anybody local to help. From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 6 10:36:27 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 10:36:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor LiPO batteries Message-ID: I'm trying to find out what wall-mounted outdoor rated battery systems exist for completely off-grid systems - not grid-tied. This would be for a showcase job, so the packaging needs to be attractive and durable. I'm thinking about pairing it with a Sol-Ark 12K outdoor unit. It would need to be scalable up to 80kWh. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 11:46:59 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 08:46:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor LiPO batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fortress 5.4 can be but the 18.5 is better but not wall mounted, simplify same as the fortress 5.4, lots of cabling, does not look good On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 7:36 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I'm trying to find out what wall-mounted outdoor rated battery systems > exist for completely off-grid systems - not grid-tied. This would be for a > showcase job, so the packaging needs to be attractive and durable. I'm > thinking about pairing it with a Sol-Ark 12K outdoor unit. It would need to > be scalable up to 80kWh. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Apr 6 12:44:47 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 11:44:47 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor LiPO batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44296C10-7F94-4C56-B1AA-8A94878525F5@mavericksolar.com> Fortress just released their outdoor enclosure for their eFlex battery which is already IP 65 rated. That enclosure also can have an additional enclosure for an outdoor Sol-Ark 12 K. https://www.fortresspower.com/products/durarack-indoor-outdoor-enclosure/ https://youtu.be/pyXdQqiVBso Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Apr 6, 2022, at 9:36 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > I'm trying to find out what wall-mounted outdoor rated battery systems exist for completely off-grid systems - not grid-tied. This would be for a showcase job, so the packaging needs to be attractive and durable. I'm thinking about pairing it with a Sol-Ark 12K outdoor unit. It would need to be scalable up to 80kWh. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 6 14:49:13 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:49:13 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor LiPO batteries In-Reply-To: <44296C10-7F94-4C56-B1AA-8A94878525F5@mavericksolar.com> References: <44296C10-7F94-4C56-B1AA-8A94878525F5@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: The Fortress option looks pretty good, but it's not truly wall mount. I'm holding out hope for something that looks like a Powerwall or Enphase Encharge battery. I would probably just go ahead and use Powerwalls if they were actually available, and I really wish you could use Enphase for off-grid. There are scenarios where a battery with integrated inverter is just easier to install and looks way better. I realize that an AC Coupled architecture is not the most efficient (cost or performance), but for some reason the DC-coupled world has not come around to attractive wall-mounted products that consumers like. Maybe Generac (not my first choice). Do they do totally off-grid? On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 12:46 PM Maverick Brown wrote: > Fortress just released their outdoor enclosure for their eFlex battery > which is already IP 65 rated. That enclosure also can have an additional > enclosure for an outdoor Sol-Ark 12 K. > > https://www.fortresspower.com/products/durarack-indoor-outdoor-enclosure/ > > > https://youtu.be/pyXdQqiVBso > > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Apr 6, 2022, at 9:36 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > I'm trying to find out what wall-mounted outdoor rated battery systems > exist for completely off-grid systems - not grid-tied. This would be for a > showcase job, so the packaging needs to be attractive and durable. I'm > thinking about pairing it with a Sol-Ark 12K outdoor unit. It would need to > be scalable up to 80kWh. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Wed Apr 6 15:51:53 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 12:51:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor LiPO batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can easily "clean-up" a Simplify install by using bus bars. If you spend a little time with steel wool, that copper looks pretty cool. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic C-10 874049 On 4/6/2022 8:46 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > Fortress 5.4 can be but the 18.5 is better but not wall mounted, > simplify same as the fortress 5.4, lots of cabling, does not look good > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 7:36 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > I'm trying to find out what wall-mounted outdoor rated battery > systems exist for completely off-grid systems - not grid-tied. > This would be for a showcase job, so the packaging needs to be > attractive and durable. I'm thinking about pairing it with a > Sol-Ark 12K outdoor unit. It would need to be scalable up to 80kWh. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > * > > * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 17:33:53 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 17:33:53 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor LiPO batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jason, Storz Power has a new wall mounted NEMA 3R enclosure that can fit 2 of their 5.12 kWh battery modules and can be stacked up to 80 kWh. Might be worth looking into. -Chris On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:47 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You can easily "clean-up" a Simplify install by using bus bars. If you > spend a little time with steel wool, that copper looks pretty cool. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic C-10 874049 > > On 4/6/2022 8:46 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Fortress 5.4 can be but the 18.5 is better but not wall mounted, simplify > same as the fortress 5.4, lots of cabling, does not look good > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 7:36 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I'm trying to find out what wall-mounted outdoor rated battery systems >> exist for completely off-grid systems - not grid-tied. This would be for a >> showcase job, so the packaging needs to be attractive and durable. I'm >> thinking about pairing it with a Sol-Ark 12K outdoor unit. It would need to >> be scalable up to 80kWh. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_4982584606725888948_m_-2668913698539320942_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathanjstumpff at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 18:23:36 2022 From: nathanjstumpff at gmail.com (Nathan J. Stumpff) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:23:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Comms for mixed IQ-series and legacy Enphase circuit Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, We received IQ7 inverters from Enphase as RMA replacements for failed legacy (M175 and M190) inverters. I understand the IQ7 PLC is line to line, and the legacy INV PLC is line to neutral. Have any of you successfully gotten a circuit with a mixture of IQ7 and legacy INV to communicate? This is a large project and shuffling old INV in order to make separate circuits with only IQ7 and only legacy INV will be difficult and expensive. It appears that Enphase is telling us we need to do that (is that correct Nick S.?) but I am trying to see if any of you have successfully mixed on the same circuit, and anything you may have had to do to make the communication work. There are some older threads about installing ferrite loops to reduce noise, but I haven't found anything specifically about mixed circuits. Thanks, -Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 6 18:36:40 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 18:36:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Comms for mixed IQ-series and legacy Enphase circuit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you sure the boxes don't have conversion kits inside. They send us IQ7s with dongles to adapt to previous generations. The comms are not an issue, however sometimes you need to request firmware updates to make things work I've found. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 6:24 PM Nathan J. Stumpff via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > We received IQ7 inverters from Enphase as RMA replacements for failed > legacy (M175 and M190) inverters. I understand the IQ7 PLC is line to line, > and the legacy INV PLC is line to neutral. Have any of you successfully > gotten a circuit with a mixture of IQ7 and legacy INV to communicate? > > This is a large project and shuffling old INV in order to make separate > circuits with only IQ7 and only legacy INV will be difficult and expensive. > It appears that Enphase is telling us we need to do that (is that correct > Nick S.?) but I am trying to see if any of you have successfully mixed on > the same circuit, and anything you may have had to do to make the > communication work. There are some older threads about installing ferrite > loops to reduce noise, but I haven't found anything specifically about > mixed circuits. > > Thanks, > -Nathan > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com Wed Apr 6 18:37:55 2022 From: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com (Nick Soleil) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:37:55 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Comms for mixed IQ-series and legacy Enphase circuit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason beat me by a second. The RMA inverters will ship with an adapter cable that allows the IQ microinverters to plug into the old cabling system and talk to the legacy L-N Envoy. Let me know if you didn't receive the adapter cable. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Nathan J. Stumpff via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2022 3:23 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Nathan J. Stumpff Subject: [RE-wrenches] Comms for mixed IQ-series and legacy Enphase circuit EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Hello Wrenches, We received IQ7 inverters from Enphase as RMA replacements for failed legacy (M175 and M190) inverters. I understand the IQ7 PLC is line to line, and the legacy INV PLC is line to neutral. Have any of you successfully gotten a circuit with a mixture of IQ7 and legacy INV to communicate? This is a large project and shuffling old INV in order to make separate circuits with only IQ7 and only legacy INV will be difficult and expensive. It appears that Enphase is telling us we need to do that (is that correct Nick S.?) but I am trying to see if any of you have successfully mixed on the same circuit, and anything you may have had to do to make the communication work. There are some older threads about installing ferrite loops to reduce noise, but I haven't found anything specifically about mixed circuits. Thanks, -Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 20:53:15 2022 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MD Electric & Solar) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 17:53:15 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor LiPO batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm sure you've looked at the Simpliphi options? https://simpliphipower.com/product/boss-12/ On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 2:34 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Jason, > > Storz Power has a new wall mounted NEMA 3R enclosure that can fit 2 of > their 5.12 kWh battery modules and can be stacked up to 80 kWh. Might be > worth looking into. > > -Chris > > On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:47 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> You can easily "clean-up" a Simplify install by using bus bars. If you >> spend a little time with steel wool, that copper looks pretty cool. >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, Owner4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 >> CA Lic C-10 874049 >> >> On 4/6/2022 8:46 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Fortress 5.4 can be but the 18.5 is better but not wall mounted, simplify >> same as the fortress 5.4, lots of cabling, does not look good >> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 7:36 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I'm trying to find out what wall-mounted outdoor rated battery systems >>> exist for completely off-grid systems - not grid-tied. This would be for a >>> showcase job, so the packaging needs to be attractive and durable. I'm >>> thinking about pairing it with a Sol-Ark 12K outdoor unit. It would need to >>> be scalable up to 80kWh. >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> >> <#m_2388500506111610001_m_4982584606725888948_m_-2668913698539320942_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar Inc. Office: 707-884-1862 Cell: 707-684-0064 www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathanjstumpff at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 11:45:31 2022 From: nathanjstumpff at gmail.com (Nathan J. Stumpff) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 08:45:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Comms for mixed IQ-series and legacy Enphase circuit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason and Nick, Thanks much, this is great. I am managing the project remotely but now I know the right questions to ask. FWIW, we did not get the same, simple answer from Enphase tech support. Thanks, -Nathan On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 3:37 PM Nick Soleil wrote: > Jason beat me by a second. The RMA inverters will ship with an adapter > cable that allows the IQ microinverters to plug into the old cabling system > and talk to the legacy L-N Envoy. Let me know if you didn't receive the > adapter cable. > > Cordially, > > Nick Soleil > > Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager > > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > > (707) 321-2937 // cell > > *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System > > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Nathan J. Stumpff via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2022 3:23 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Comms for mixed IQ-series and legacy Enphase > circuit > > *EXTERNAL EMAIL* - *Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or > downloading attachments.* > > > > > Hello Wrenches, > > We received IQ7 inverters from Enphase as RMA replacements for failed > legacy (M175 and M190) inverters. I understand the IQ7 PLC is line to line, > and the legacy INV PLC is line to neutral. Have any of you successfully > gotten a circuit with a mixture of IQ7 and legacy INV to communicate? > > This is a large project and shuffling old INV in order to make separate > circuits with only IQ7 and only legacy INV will be difficult and expensive. > It appears that Enphase is telling us we need to do that (is that correct > Nick S.?) but I am trying to see if any of you have successfully mixed on > the same circuit, and anything you may have had to do to make the > communication work. There are some older threads about installing ferrite > loops to reduce noise, but I haven't found anything specifically about > mixed circuits. > > Thanks, > -Nathan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com Fri Apr 8 16:40:10 2022 From: Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 20:40:10 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA AFCI events and ferrite cores In-Reply-To: <6afad4dc-b5f5-c915-01e3-67c80f1029c7@psln.com> References: <34147A35-A777-490F-AA1A-1F9025853594@swnl.net> <6afad4dc-b5f5-c915-01e3-67c80f1029c7@psln.com> Message-ID: Bill - SMA is continuously working to improve the accuracy of our AFCI detection and minimize impacts on system operation of this important safety function. Intentionally degrading the signal coming into the Sunny Boy for the AFCI detection to act on is not recommended. The most up to date FW for both the US-40 and US-41 lines provide for automatic restarts from AFCI events. An error message will be logged for each event and feed-in will be suspended, but the inverter will go back into production. If these events occur with high regularity, PLEASE treat this as a true arc fault and carefully investigate the system. The SMA Online Service Center hosts a large number of articles in the knowledge base for perusal (login is not required, but some articles will be hidden without login). Please contact the SMA America Service Line for inverter/site specific troubleshooting recommendations and or login to the Online Service Center to view Knowledge Articles: https://my.sma-service.com SMA-America service line: Service at SMA-America.com and 1-877-697-6283 (6am-5pm PT, Mon-Fri) Best regards - Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish      This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of frenergy via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2022 8:49 AM To: Tump via RE-wrenches Cc: frenergy Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA AFCI events and ferrite cores Wrenchers,             In searching the list I saw ferrite cores discussed for EMP and Enphase but a tech at SMA just told me I can put the DC conductors through ferrite cores to prevent false AFCI events in their SB-40 and -41 inverters.  Is this a thing? are folks doing this with success? Any tricks to installation?...seems straight forward. Thanks, Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirus&data=04%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C78b58dc6cb2842854b7f08da1324fcfb%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C1%7C637843346837118107%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=PHzGZUVRy78gQfF2%2FX9R9Q6kOtjaoAPmRePVqZZ5r4M%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fre-wrenches.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C78b58dc6cb2842854b7f08da1324fcfb%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C1%7C637843346837118107%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=brPQII9VaB5gt92IJRxZJGjKy%2BM9GOKY8OkhjempSxo%3D&reserved=0 List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&data=04%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C78b58dc6cb2842854b7f08da1324fcfb%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C1%7C637843346837118107%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OdV%2F6F6x%2FNnNVakUDKXN%2BE%2F2ax%2BGSIy8P2gxXpuZfnc%3D&reserved=0 There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fre-wrenches%40lists.re-wrenches.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C78b58dc6cb2842854b7f08da1324fcfb%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C1%7C637843346837118107%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=PiiK8UzG2CopBB%2FlJQTAKeiKXAE%2Bdxfk2ob%2FecojE0s%3D&reserved=0 https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Fpipermail%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&data=04%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C78b58dc6cb2842854b7f08da1324fcfb%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C1%7C637843346837118107%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=W5t24JXdj4kFt%2BK9YA1cfidZZSjvbakw5OMcSoU8Shc%3D&reserved=0 List rules & etiquette: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm&data=04%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C78b58dc6cb2842854b7f08da1324fcfb%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C1%7C637843346837118107%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=G2z7qLMzuz3QwmVF1DeJ4lSY%2FWW5Q6O2C0pH9J%2BBX4w%3D&reserved=0 Check out or update participant bios: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C78b58dc6cb2842854b7f08da1324fcfb%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C1%7C637843346837118107%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=D%2Bi8JecZG%2BuYVXve0NIFuVcUoINpCr7r64M0VGWwo4E%3D&reserved=0 From solareagle at solareagle.com Tue Apr 12 22:42:00 2022 From: solareagle at solareagle.com (Ron Young) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 19:42:00 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install Message-ID: Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use three home run cables, one for each string. Ron Young earthRight Products - Solareagle.com Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 23:27:16 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:27:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Need more than this, we have amperage, we need distance, temp, # of wires per conduit, also at 480 you may want to verify cold temp for over the top voltage @ VOC, any RSD device(s) being used? Help to have total module count, as an example use a combiner to make 4 strings, 2 of equal voltage per input. For battery backup or off grid, Solark is the easiest you will get. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. > Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC > each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best > choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro > inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the > string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need > to use three home run cables, one for each string. > > Ron Young > > earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Apr 13 02:47:56 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 23:47:56 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b9b7d85c668fc1c360b133d501c98e3@mail.gmail.com> Ron: I apologize if I am underestimating your level of skill or experience. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. However from the extent of the questions you are asking, it seems like some solar design and vocational courses might be in order. Without a solid background, no one should be designing and installing electrical systems with any voltages greater than 50, AC or DC. Below is my take on the subject of training. I apologize if I am on a bit of a rant, but I feel the subject gets overlooked. When I started in solar there were no training resources. As time passed a few became available: I took one of Bill Brooks’ early 3 day courses in Sacramento. I went to a very bizarre lecture that John Wiles presented. There was an outfit called High Sun Engineering that had a multi-day course. I also went to every inverter manufacturer’s 1-3 day course I could find including Outback’s factory certification course. I went to every trade show I could get to. I read every manual and I kept the all of the solar equipment manufacturer’s tech support numbers on speed dial. All of these are still valid methods to improve your knowledge. There are now many good training options. Community colleges offer courses. I never pursued the NABCEP training because there was never a job I failed to get or complete due to lack of that certification. I have reviewed the NABCEP training material and the curriculum seems very thorough. The industry is much more complicated now than it was in the mid-80s-- If back then someone had tried to explain AC coupling to me it would have blown my mind, as just one example. Further complicating the solar-electric industry is the evolution of the NEC, the rigors of permitting and improved safety protocols that have to be followed. Training is more important now than ever. Here is another concept that I think applies to this mini-rant: Before one can become a skilled solar electrician one must first become a competent electrician. You need to know electrical theory, electrical and building codes, the hardware, practices and construction in general, particularly roofing. To become a solar designer, you have to have expertise in the above trades and have additional skills in math, spreadsheets, research and CAD. Here is an option for those interested in getting started in the solar electric trade: Before I got my contractor’s license I worked with a buddy that was licensed. I already had a few years as an apprentice and I had electronics training and experience. I brought the customers and the designs. My pal supervised the work and put his name on the permits. Eventually he signed for my hours and I got my own license. The bottom line is: I could not in good conscious coach someone on how to design any electrical system if I were not confident they were experienced enough to install the resulting system safely. The overriding principal is simple enough: electrical systems, when installed improperly, can kill. I mean no disrespect… William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Young via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Tuesday, April 12, 2022 7:42 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Ron Young *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use three home run cables, one for each string. Ron Young earthRight Products - Solareagle.com Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Apr 13 07:29:51 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 06:29:51 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <207801d84f29$cae665a0$60b330e0$@solarcentex.com> I agree with an earlier response…isn’t this a NABCEP PV Installation Professional-only forum? The original question is DC-string design 101. Jerry is spot on for coldest temp adjustments, RSD considerations if required. But selecting a home run wire for separate string inputs to the inverter??? How can this be asked here? Ron, are you NABCEP PV Installation Pro certified? Scot Arey Owner, Solar CenTex From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:27 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install Need more than this, we have amperage, we need distance, temp, # of wires per conduit, also at 480 you may want to verify cold temp for over the top voltage @ VOC, any RSD device(s) being used? Help to have total module count, as an example use a combiner to make 4 strings, 2 of equal voltage per input. For battery backup or off grid, Solark is the easiest you will get. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use three home run cables, one for each string. Ron Young earthRight Products - Solareagle.com Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 07:58:21 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 05:58:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: <207801d84f29$cae665a0$60b330e0$@solarcentex.com> References: <207801d84f29$cae665a0$60b330e0$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Hello Ron, I'll try to point you in the right direction here, but yes you want to move forward cautiously. Good training is easily available all over the place now. I will say that you can be an excellent and successful solar installer these days without any experience with string inverters like this. MLPE has made this possible recently. If this is on the roof, and you are on a 2014 NEC code or later, you will need some type of module level or string level rapid shutdown device. Tigo seems to work well with the Sol-Ark built in RSS system. As far as stringing, you need to apply your local climate's cold factor to the Voc of the string, or use the module nameplate to figure out the true Voc of each string and stay below the MPPT limit for Voc. If you haven't done this before, I would take a class. You can use Sol-Arks string calculator here: https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html I always check any calculator's output by hand and verify that the Voc goes up as temperature goes down. This step should not be overlooked because you can damage the MPPTs input. The cold temp factor here in Colorado can drive the Voc to 25% above the nameplate ratings, so don't ignore this. Once you have your maximum string length, you want to figure out how to wire this in as efficiently as possible. You can combine 2 strings per MPPT typically, but these parallel strings need to be the same number of modules. You also want the strings to face ~ same direction and have similar shading characteristics for the most efficient operation over time. Be careful and good luck! On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 5:29 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I agree with an earlier response…isn’t this a NABCEP PV Installation > Professional-only forum? The original question is DC-string design 101. > Jerry is spot on for coldest temp adjustments, RSD considerations if > required. But selecting a home run wire for separate string inputs to the > inverter??? How can this be asked here? > > Ron, are you NABCEP PV Installation Pro certified? > > > > Scot Arey > > Owner, Solar CenTex > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:27 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install > > > > Need more than this, we have amperage, we need distance, temp, # of wires > per conduit, also at 480 you may want to verify cold temp for over the top > voltage @ VOC, any RSD device(s) being used? Help to have total module > count, as an example use a combiner to make 4 strings, 2 of equal voltage > per input. For battery backup or off grid, Solark is the easiest you will > get. > > Jerry > > NABCEP PV Inspector > > > > On Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. > Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC > each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best > choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro > inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the > string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need > to use three home run cables, one for each string. > > > > Ron Young > > > > earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Apr 13 08:38:48 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 06:38:48 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 systems Message-ID: Good Morning Wrenches, I am working through the Enphase training for their battery system while simultaneously designing a backup system. Cart is in front of the horse just a bit! Does anyone know if you are using an IQ8 roof top micro, does its output capacity add to the battery output capacity for baseline power output when the sun is shining? Or is this a bad assumption? The fact you can do "solar only" backup suggests you can. For example, can I say (*during sunny conditions)*: Battery Output + AC solar output = nominal output wattage available for backup? How are these systems performing in the field? Thanks as always! -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 13 09:03:18 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 09:03:18 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 systems In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe that applies to all microinverters from the M215 to the IQ8. The available power is additive as long as there is battery capacity and the micro inverters are not off due to the battery being at full capacity. If the battery is at full capacity, the IQ8 should still be able to supplement heavy loads, but others will not react fast enough if they have already been commanded off. We always size our batteries alone to have sufficient power for the expected loads. Some people have asked if they can just use air conditioning during the day when the sun is shining and get a smaller battery. I decline to design systems that way. I believe it would be too unreliable. Jason Szumlanski On Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:39 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good Morning Wrenches, > > I am working through the Enphase training for their battery system while > simultaneously designing a backup system. Cart is in front of the horse > just a bit! > > Does anyone know if you are using an IQ8 roof top micro, does its output > capacity add to the battery output capacity for baseline power output when > the sun is shining? Or is this a bad assumption? The fact you can do > "solar only" backup suggests you can. > > For example, can I say (*during sunny conditions)*: > > Battery Output + AC solar output = nominal output wattage available for > backup? > > How are these systems performing in the field? > > Thanks as always! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Apr 13 11:42:54 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 11:42:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sharp ND-208U1 module Message-ID: Looking for one of these as a replacement. Please contact me off list if you can help. Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Wed Apr 13 14:25:53 2022 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 11:25:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install (Admin Post) In-Reply-To: <207801d84f29$cae665a0$60b330e0$@solarcentex.com> References: <207801d84f29$cae665a0$60b330e0$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: <1649874508255.148edd8420cefe62@re-wrenches.org> Hi gang, let's take any further discussion of Wrench List qualifications off-list, please email me directly with any questions or concerns. First, this is not a NABCEP-only list. If I had to guess, less than half of you have pro installer certifications. In fact, this list predates NABCEP and was helpful in the creation of NABCEP. There are plenty of solid installers who for whatever reasons have decided not to seek NABCEP certification. NABCEP PVIP certification IS an automatic qualification for this list, no questions asked. But for list applicants who aren't PVIP certified, I go by their stated experience. If I have any reason to doubt that experience, or it is on the edge, I have a long list of questions to help me determine pro status and experience. These are things I feel are necessary to keep the level of discussion fairly high. FYI, Ron has been active in this list since 2006, and qualified for the list based on his experience installing off-grid systems in British Columbia. From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Wed Apr 13 16:56:42 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 16:56:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question Message-ID: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high. An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A • Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V • Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V • Voc of the module is 40.7 V Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of the inverter or the Vmmp? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Apr 13 17:38:29 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:38:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question In-Reply-To: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> References: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: The VOC will start the microinverter, but I would pair a 365W module with the IQ7+. It depends on where you are and how.much clipping there might be based on temp, orientation, etc. But, the IQ7+ is now in short supply, so you might want to look at the IQ8+. I have never had an issue with a module voltage close to the microinverter specified startup voltage. Jason Szumlanski On Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:56 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified > by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to > the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high. > > An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A > > • Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V > • Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V > • Voc of the module is 40.7 V > > Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max > power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of > the inverter or the Vmmp? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarwindworks.com Wed Apr 13 20:02:33 2022 From: chris at solarwindworks.com (Chris Worcester) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 17:02:33 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question In-Reply-To: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Seems like heat is going to be a major player, a top of pole mount array might keep the modules cool enough to keep the 7As running. Tight to a roof, and all bets are off, imho.Chris Worcester chris at solarwindworks.com530-448-9692Sent from my Samsung Galaxy s9. -------- Original message --------From: Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches Date: 4/13/22 1:57 PM (GMT-08:00) To: RE-wrenches Cc: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high.An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A• Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V• Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V• Voc of the module is 40.7 VIs the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of the inverter or the Vmmp?Thanks,DrakeDrake ChamberlinAthens Electric LLCOhio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810CO Master Electrician’s License 4526NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional-- _______________________________________________List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Apr 13 21:19:49 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:19:49 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question In-Reply-To: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> References: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: I would say it’s likely okay, but to speak in the vernacular, “watch out sucka”. Vmp will be lower due to temperature coefficient, dirt on the panels and degradation over time. But, the inverter likely wakes up above the minimum Vmp as Voc has the voltage but the inverter can track below minimum Vmp after it wakes up and starts tracking. How far below official Vmp can it track? 18-58 is the tracking range. Inverter technical specs: https://www4.enphase.com/sites/default/files/IQ7A-DS-EN-US.pdf I saw an inverter comparison document but could only find this AU version just now. https://www4.enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/IQ7A_Vs_IQ7plus_in_Australia.pdf Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Apr 13, 2022, at 3:57 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high. > > An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A > > • Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V > • Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V > • Voc of the module is 40.7 V > > Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of the inverter or the Vmmp? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Apr 13 21:54:12 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2022 20:54:12 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> Ron The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for each MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire barely fits so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for 10AWG. I’m assuming you have a ground array The most common stringing method would be to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve a direct-burial cable into the ground. Calculate the voltage drop over the distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like a MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the right wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield device. If it’s a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at the inverter building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/ Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html Contact me off list with additional questions. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use three home run cables, one for each string. > > Ron Young > > earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Apr 14 07:58:04 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 05:58:04 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> References: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: <0897590A-1245-43D6-AD22-CB1F86C99010@solarwork.com> We have done one Solark installation & I was shocked as to the lack of ground wire landing terminals & space. We added a 12126 metal box below to ease the # of entrances to two 11/4”. I jumpered a # 8 to a second ground bar to allow for additional landing locations. I called Solark to question this & the response to the question was “yeah we have heard this from other installers “. End of call. Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Apr 13, 2022, at 8:21 PM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Ron > > The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for each MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire barely fits so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for 10AWG. > > I’m assuming you have a ground array The most common stringing method would be to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve a direct-burial cable into the ground. Calculate the voltage drop over the distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like a MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the right wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield device. If it’s a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at the inverter building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. > > https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/ > > Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. > > https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html > > Contact me off list with additional questions. > > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > • Solar Commander Remote Power > • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > >>> On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >> Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use three home run cables, one for each string. >> >> Ron Young >> >> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com >> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Apr 14 11:04:44 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:04:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: <0897590A-1245-43D6-AD22-CB1F86C99010@solarwork.com> References: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> <0897590A-1245-43D6-AD22-CB1F86C99010@solarwork.com> Message-ID: This problem is not limited to one manufacturer. One example is the Enphase smart controller. While the small holes are big enough for #6 ground and neutral, you have to strip the wires perfectly and have the hand of a heart surgeon to get them in there. And conduit entry is a royal pain because the enclosure is tapered on the bottom and sides. Fortunately, all of these manufacturers seem to be making strides to make the roof installation easier. A little more attention to the electrical enclosures would be appreciated. Jason Szumlanski On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 10:30 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We have done one Solark installation & I was shocked as to the lack of > ground wire landing terminals & space. We added a 12126 metal box below to > ease the # of entrances to two 11/4”. > I jumpered a # 8 to a second ground bar to allow for additional landing > locations. I called Solark to question this & the response to the question > was “yeah we have heard this from other installers “. > End of call. > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Apr 13, 2022, at 8:21 PM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Ron > > The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for > each MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire > barely fits so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for > 10AWG. > > I’m assuming you have a ground array The most common stringing method > would be to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve > a direct-burial cable into the ground. Calculate the voltage drop over the > distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like > a MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the > right wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield > device. If it’s a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at > the inverter building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. > > https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/ > > Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. > > https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html > > Contact me off list with additional questions. > > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. > Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC > each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best > choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro > inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the > string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need > to use three home run cables, one for each string. > > Ron Young > > earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Thu Apr 14 11:25:41 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 08:25:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 Message-ID: Aloha all, Was looking over the new IQ8 line-up. And couldn't find a model that's compatible with 96-cell mods (and the associated higher Vmp). Is there an IQ8 model that's a good match for 96-celled mods? Or is that model exclusive to the deal Enphase has with SunPower to provide micros for their Equinox AC mod line? Mahalo, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Apr 14 11:29:39 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 11:29:39 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> <0897590A-1245-43D6-AD22-CB1F86C99010@solarwork.com> Message-ID: I feel the same way about the Outback Radian GSLC box, once it's fully wired there's no room whatsoever, and sometimes you have to remove breakers and layers of wiring to re-access things for debug. Don't know how it meets code and ETL approval for wire space. On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 11:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This problem is not limited to one manufacturer. One example is the > Enphase smart controller. While the small holes are big enough for #6 > ground and neutral, you have to strip the wires perfectly and have the hand > of a heart surgeon to get them in there. And conduit entry is a royal pain > because the enclosure is tapered on the bottom and sides. > > Fortunately, all of these manufacturers seem to be making strides to make > the roof installation easier. A little more attention to the electrical > enclosures would be appreciated. > > Jason Szumlanski > > > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 10:30 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We have done one Solark installation & I was shocked as to the lack of >> ground wire landing terminals & space. We added a 12126 metal box below to >> ease the # of entrances to two 11/4”. >> I jumpered a # 8 to a second ground bar to allow for additional landing >> locations. I called Solark to question this & the response to the question >> was “yeah we have heard this from other installers “. >> End of call. >> Dana Orzel >> C: 208.721.7003 >> E- dana at solarwork.com >> >> On Apr 13, 2022, at 8:21 PM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Ron >> >> The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for >> each MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire >> barely fits so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for >> 10AWG. >> >> I’m assuming you have a ground array The most common stringing method >> would be to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve >> a direct-burial cable into the ground. Calculate the voltage drop over the >> distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like >> a MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the >> right wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield >> device. If it’s a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at >> the inverter building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. >> >> https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/ >> >> Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. >> >> https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html >> >> Contact me off list with additional questions. >> >> >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* >> * • Solar Commander Remote Power* >> >> * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com >> 512-460-9825 >> >> >> On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. >> Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC >> each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best >> choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro >> inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the >> string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need >> to use three home run cables, one for each string. >> >> Ron Young >> >> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com >> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Apr 14 12:15:01 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 09:15:01 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> <0897590A-1245-43D6-AD22-CB1F86C99010@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <0e20481f0b90a65bc034d5686d2559b2@mail.gmail.com> Kirk: I feel your pain. This is a big problem that we discovered with the first GSLC we installed. We ordered it prewired and it was a mess. We broke the tab off of one of the AC breakers by too much wire stress. We had to come up with a work-around for this problem. I will describe it below in hopes you find some use for this procedure. You can skip installing AC breakers in the GSLC and that frees up a lot of room. To make this work you need to supply an outboard breaker panel for Generator fed circuits and another for Inverter fed circuits. The AC leads run straight through the GSLC without landing. You can remove all of the AC buss bars. If you want bypass capabilities you need to provide for this in the inverter fed-panel. Most breaker manufacturers provide interlocks for two breakers. If you want more interlock capabilities you need to make a custom interlock. Let me know if you want more information on that process. For the PV leads, we cut off the bottom tab that holds the dead front and replace it with a hinge. We lower the dead-front for wiring. The PV leads all come up the back of the dead-front and hinge at the bottom. See attached photo. I hope this information helps. The Radian is a good product in my opinion and it is worth the effort to get around the limitation. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2022 8:30 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Kirk Herander *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install I feel the same way about the Outback Radian GSLC box, once it's fully wired there's no room whatsoever, and sometimes you have to remove breakers and layers of wiring to re-access things for debug. Don't know how it meets code and ETL approval for wire space. On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 11:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: This problem is not limited to one manufacturer. One example is the Enphase smart controller. While the small holes are big enough for #6 ground and neutral, you have to strip the wires perfectly and have the hand of a heart surgeon to get them in there. And conduit entry is a royal pain because the enclosure is tapered on the bottom and sides. Fortunately, all of these manufacturers seem to be making strides to make the roof installation easier. A little more attention to the electrical enclosures would be appreciated. Jason Szumlanski On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 10:30 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: We have done one Solark installation & I was shocked as to the lack of ground wire landing terminals & space. We added a 12126 metal box below to ease the # of entrances to two 11/4”. I jumpered a # 8 to a second ground bar to allow for additional landing locations. I called Solark to question this & the response to the question was “yeah we have heard this from other installers “. End of call. Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com On Apr 13, 2022, at 8:21 PM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Ron The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for each MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire barely fits so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for 10AWG. I’m assuming you have a ground array The most common stringing method would be to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve a direct-burial cable into the ground. Calculate the voltage drop over the distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like a MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the right wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield device. If it’s a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at the inverter building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/ Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html Contact me off list with additional questions. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* * • Solar Commander Remote Power* * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use three home run cables, one for each string. Ron Young earthRight Products - Solareagle.com Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_4899.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1981867 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Apr 14 13:08:30 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:08:30 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> <0897590A-1245-43D6-AD22-CB1F86C99010@solarwork.com> <0e20481f0b90a65bc034d5686d2559b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sorry, just noticed the photo, great idea! On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 12:58 PM Kirk Herander wrote: > Thanks, I'd love to see some photos if you have them online somewhere. I > was impressed by your multi-breaker bypass interlock. Too bad no OEM can > think it through like that. > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 12:51 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Kirk: >> >> >> >> I feel your pain. This is a big problem that we discovered with the >> first GSLC we installed. We ordered it prewired and it was a mess. We >> broke the tab off of one of the AC breakers by too much wire stress. We >> had to come up with a work-around for this problem. I will describe it >> below in hopes you find some use for this procedure. >> >> >> >> You can skip installing AC breakers in the GSLC and that frees up a lot >> of room. To make this work you need to supply an outboard breaker panel >> for Generator fed circuits and another for Inverter fed circuits. The AC >> leads run straight through the GSLC without landing. You can remove all of >> the AC buss bars. >> >> >> >> If you want bypass capabilities you need to provide for this in the >> inverter fed-panel. Most breaker manufacturers provide interlocks for two >> breakers. If you want more interlock capabilities you need to make a >> custom interlock. Let me know if you want more information on that process. >> >> >> >> For the PV leads, we cut off the bottom tab that holds the dead front and >> replace it with a hinge. We lower the dead-front for wiring. The PV leads >> all come up the back of the dead-front and hinge at the bottom. See >> attached photo. >> >> >> >> I hope this information helps. The Radian is a good product in my >> opinion and it is worth the effort to get around the limitation. >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2022 8:30 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Kirk Herander >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install >> >> >> >> I feel the same way about the Outback Radian GSLC box, once it's fully >> wired there's no room whatsoever, and sometimes you have to remove >> breakers and layers of wiring to re-access things for debug. Don't know how >> it meets code and ETL approval for wire space. >> >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 11:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> This problem is not limited to one manufacturer. One example is the >> Enphase smart controller. While the small holes are big enough for #6 >> ground and neutral, you have to strip the wires perfectly and have the hand >> of a heart surgeon to get them in there. And conduit entry is a royal pain >> because the enclosure is tapered on the bottom and sides. >> >> >> >> Fortunately, all of these manufacturers seem to be making strides to make >> the roof installation easier. A little more attention to the electrical >> enclosures would be appreciated. >> >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 10:30 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> We have done one Solark installation & I was shocked as to the lack of >> ground wire landing terminals & space. We added a 12126 metal box below to >> ease the # of entrances to two 11/4”. >> >> I jumpered a # 8 to a second ground bar to allow for additional landing >> locations. I called Solark to question this & the response to the question >> was “yeah we have heard this from other installers “. >> End of call. >> >> Dana Orzel >> >> C: 208.721.7003 >> >> E- dana at solarwork.com >> >> >> >> On Apr 13, 2022, at 8:21 PM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Ron >> >> >> >> The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for >> each MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire >> barely fits so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for >> 10AWG. >> >> >> >> I’m assuming you have a ground array The most common stringing method >> would be to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve >> a direct-burial cable into the ground. Calculate the voltage drop over the >> distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like >> a MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the >> right wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield >> device. If it’s a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at >> the inverter building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. >> >> >> >> https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/ >> >> >> >> Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. >> >> >> >> https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html >> >> >> >> Contact me off list with additional questions. >> >> >> >> >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* >> >> * • Solar Commander Remote Power* >> >> >> * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com >> 512-460-9825 >> >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark >> install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is >> 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be >> the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with >> micro inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable >> but the string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like >> I’ll need to use three home run cables, one for each string. >> >> >> >> Ron Young >> >> >> >> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com >> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Apr 14 12:58:21 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:58:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: <0e20481f0b90a65bc034d5686d2559b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <9A2E04C3-08F0-4966-8ED6-1FEC3EC0FA35@mavericksolar.com> <0897590A-1245-43D6-AD22-CB1F86C99010@solarwork.com> <0e20481f0b90a65bc034d5686d2559b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, I'd love to see some photos if you have them online somewhere. I was impressed by your multi-breaker bypass interlock. Too bad no OEM can think it through like that. On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 12:51 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Kirk: > > > > I feel your pain. This is a big problem that we discovered with the first > GSLC we installed. We ordered it prewired and it was a mess. We broke the > tab off of one of the AC breakers by too much wire stress. We had to come > up with a work-around for this problem. I will describe it below in hopes > you find some use for this procedure. > > > > You can skip installing AC breakers in the GSLC and that frees up a lot of > room. To make this work you need to supply an outboard breaker panel for > Generator fed circuits and another for Inverter fed circuits. The AC leads > run straight through the GSLC without landing. You can remove all of the > AC buss bars. > > > > If you want bypass capabilities you need to provide for this in the > inverter fed-panel. Most breaker manufacturers provide interlocks for two > breakers. If you want more interlock capabilities you need to make a > custom interlock. Let me know if you want more information on that process. > > > > For the PV leads, we cut off the bottom tab that holds the dead front and > replace it with a hinge. We lower the dead-front for wiring. The PV leads > all come up the back of the dead-front and hinge at the bottom. See > attached photo. > > > > I hope this information helps. The Radian is a good product in my opinion > and it is worth the effort to get around the limitation. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2022 8:30 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Kirk Herander > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install > > > > I feel the same way about the Outback Radian GSLC box, once it's fully > wired there's no room whatsoever, and sometimes you have to remove > breakers and layers of wiring to re-access things for debug. Don't know how > it meets code and ETL approval for wire space. > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 11:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > This problem is not limited to one manufacturer. One example is the > Enphase smart controller. While the small holes are big enough for #6 > ground and neutral, you have to strip the wires perfectly and have the hand > of a heart surgeon to get them in there. And conduit entry is a royal pain > because the enclosure is tapered on the bottom and sides. > > > > Fortunately, all of these manufacturers seem to be making strides to make > the roof installation easier. A little more attention to the electrical > enclosures would be appreciated. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 10:30 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > We have done one Solark installation & I was shocked as to the lack of > ground wire landing terminals & space. We added a 12126 metal box below to > ease the # of entrances to two 11/4”. > > I jumpered a # 8 to a second ground bar to allow for additional landing > locations. I called Solark to question this & the response to the question > was “yeah we have heard this from other installers “. > End of call. > > Dana Orzel > > C: 208.721.7003 > > E- dana at solarwork.com > > > > On Apr 13, 2022, at 8:21 PM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Ron > > > > The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for > each MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire > barely fits so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for > 10AWG. > > > > I’m assuming you have a ground array The most common stringing method > would be to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve > a direct-burial cable into the ground. Calculate the voltage drop over the > distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like > a MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the > right wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield > device. If it’s a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at > the inverter building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. > > > > https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/ > > > > Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. > > > > https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html > > > > Contact me off list with additional questions. > > > > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > > > > On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. > Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC > each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best > choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro > inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the > string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need > to use three home run cables, one for each string. > > > > Ron Young > > > > earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 13:00:09 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:00:09 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Ron, Yes, you must be careful of the MPPT inputs. You state Sol-Ark has an 18 amp max input, meaning you can not have more than 1 string supplying an MPPT if your 60 cell modules are 10 amps Isc. You state Sol-Ark has a maximum voltage per MPPT of 500 volts, this voltage is *not Voc x number of modules.* The Voc must be temperature corrected. find the lowest temperature for your region, check code book 690.7a table and there is a table of temperature correction factors, use these factors to correct Voc at STC to Voc at your lowest temperature. For example if your lowest temp is -10 F the code says (x1.2) so your 40 volts becomes 40 x 1.2 = 48 volts and the max number of modules is 10 per string On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. > Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a and the PV I’m using is 40v DC > each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best > choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro > inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the > string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need > to use three home run cables, one for each string. > > Ron Young > > earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Thu Apr 14 14:56:24 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 14:56:24 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I talked to SolArk about the input amperage limitation on a recent project. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but SolArk does automatically limit excess amperage.  We were very close on the limit and it made no sense to me that they would design something with parallel MPPT that limit one to one string.  In any case, I was informed by SolArk that they do current limit when in excess of 18.  Chris Warfel On 4/14/2022 1:00 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi, Ron, Yes, you must be careful of the MPPT inputs.  You state > Sol-Ark has an 18 amp max input, meaning you can not have more than 1 > string supplying an MPPT if your 60 cell modules are 10 amps Isc.  You > state Sol-Ark has a maximum voltage per MPPT of 500 volts, this > voltage is _not Voc x number of modules._  The Voc must be temperature > corrected.  find the lowest temperature for your region, check code > book 690.7a table and there is a table of temperature correction > factors, use these factors to correct Voc at STC to Voc at your lowest > temperature.   For example if your lowest temp is -10 F the code says > (x1.2) so your 40 volts becomes 40 x 1.2 = 48 volts and the max number > of modules is 10 per string > > On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark > install. Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a  and the PV I’m > using is 40v DC each I will have to create three strings each > 480v. What would be the best choice for a home run wire? I’ve > always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a combiner at > the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter > presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use > three home run cables, one for each string. > > Ron Young > > earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com Thu Apr 14 18:39:57 2022 From: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com (Nick Soleil) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 22:39:57 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question In-Reply-To: References: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: The start-up voltage is triggered by Voc, not Vmp. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2022 6:19 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Maverick Brown Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. I would say it’s likely okay, but to speak in the vernacular, “watch out sucka”. Vmp will be lower due to temperature coefficient, dirt on the panels and degradation over time. But, the inverter likely wakes up above the minimum Vmp as Voc has the voltage but the inverter can track below minimum Vmp after it wakes up and starts tracking. How far below official Vmp can it track? 18-58 is the tracking range. Inverter technical specs: https://www4.enphase.com/sites/default/files/IQ7A-DS-EN-US.pdf I saw an inverter comparison document but could only find this AU version just now. https://www4.enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/IQ7A_Vs_IQ7plus_in_Australia.pdf Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Apr 13, 2022, at 3:57 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high. An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A • Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V • Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V • Voc of the module is 40.7 V Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of the inverter or the Vmmp? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com Thu Apr 14 18:49:31 2022 From: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com (Nick Soleil) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 22:49:31 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My understanding is that Enphase does not currently have plans to release an IQ 8 variant that works with 96 cell modules. You will need to use IQ 7X microinverters for those applications. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2022 8:25 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Marco Mangelsdorf Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Aloha all, Was looking over the new IQ8 line-up. And couldn't find a model that's compatible with 96-cell mods (and the associated higher Vmp). Is there an IQ8 model that's a good match for 96-celled mods? Or is that model exclusive to the deal Enphase has with SunPower to provide micros for their Equinox AC mod line? Mahalo, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Thu Apr 14 20:04:52 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:04:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you for the clarification, Nick. Thing is, I know that Enphase is producing micros for 96-cell SPR mods as part of their Equinox line. For whatever reasons, Enphase is not making those micros available separately. marco On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:49 PM Nick Soleil wrote: > My understanding is that Enphase does not currently have plans to release > an IQ 8 variant that works with 96 cell modules. You will need to use IQ > 7X microinverters for those applications. > > Cordially, > > Nick Soleil > > Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager > > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > > (707) 321-2937 // cell > > *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System > > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2022 8:25 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Marco Mangelsdorf > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 > > *EXTERNAL EMAIL* - *Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or > downloading attachments.* > > > > > Aloha all, > Was looking over the new IQ8 line-up. And couldn't find a model that's > compatible with 96-cell mods (and the associated higher Vmp). > Is there an IQ8 model that's a good match for 96-celled mods? Or is that > model exclusive to the deal Enphase has with SunPower to provide micros for > their Equinox AC mod line? > Mahalo, > marco > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From welch.nicholas.r at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 20:55:26 2022 From: welch.nicholas.r at gmail.com (Nicholas Welch) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 20:55:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Marco, I have been hunting down the IQ7X for 96 cell mods recently. From our Enphase rep, the IQ7X is being phased out. I have an order in now and am being told ETA is around August and we won't be getting any more after that. Food for thought. Cheers, Nick Welch On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 8:05 PM Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Thank you for the clarification, Nick. > > Thing is, I know that Enphase is producing micros for 96-cell SPR mods as > part of their Equinox line. For whatever reasons, Enphase is not making > those micros available separately. > marco > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:49 PM Nick Soleil > wrote: > >> My understanding is that Enphase does not currently have plans to release >> an IQ 8 variant that works with 96 cell modules. You will need to use IQ >> 7X microinverters for those applications. >> >> Cordially, >> >> Nick Soleil >> >> Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager >> >> (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office >> >> (707) 321-2937 // cell >> >> *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System >> >> >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 >> >> California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* RE-wrenches on >> behalf of Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2022 8:25 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Marco Mangelsdorf >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 >> >> *EXTERNAL EMAIL* - *Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or >> downloading attachments.* >> >> >> >> >> Aloha all, >> Was looking over the new IQ8 line-up. And couldn't find a model that's >> compatible with 96-cell mods (and the associated higher Vmp). >> Is there an IQ8 model that's a good match for 96-celled mods? Or is that >> model exclusive to the deal Enphase has with SunPower to provide micros for >> their Equinox AC mod line? >> Mahalo, >> marco >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Apr 14 21:29:34 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 21:29:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The lack of clarity on the IQ7 line as a whole has been a bit disconcerting. There is a serious disconnect between what my distributors think and what Enphase reps say about the future. I know supply chain issues are tough these days, but come on... Just tell us the truth. Enphase hasn't done great on product rollouts recently (I point to the botched Encharge 10T fiasco). We need clarity to be able to keep our job pipelines full and inventories matched up. That said, how many residential 96 cell panels are really popular now that Panasonic bit the dust? I can see both the X variant and the IQ7 line as a whole disappearing. That would be unfortunate given the price premium with IQ8 and limited utility/advantage in many instances. Marco: I'd like to learn more about this Equinox development. I wasn't aware of a 96 cell AC module. I'm not Sunpower dealer, but like to keep tabs on all available options. Is there a spec sheet available? I couldn't find it. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 8:55 PM Nicholas Welch via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey Marco, > > I have been hunting down the IQ7X for 96 cell mods recently. From our > Enphase rep, the IQ7X is being phased out. I have an order in now and am > being told ETA is around August and we won't be getting any more after > that. Food for thought. > > Cheers, > > Nick Welch > > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 8:05 PM Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Thank you for the clarification, Nick. >> >> Thing is, I know that Enphase is producing micros for 96-cell SPR mods as >> part of their Equinox line. For whatever reasons, Enphase is not making >> those micros available separately. >> marco >> >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 3:49 PM Nick Soleil >> wrote: >> >>> My understanding is that Enphase does not currently have plans to >>> release an IQ 8 variant that works with 96 cell modules. You will need to >>> use IQ 7X microinverters for those applications. >>> >>> Cordially, >>> >>> Nick Soleil >>> >>> Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager >>> >>> (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office >>> >>> (707) 321-2937 // cell >>> >>> *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System >>> >>> >>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 >>> >>> California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* RE-wrenches on >>> behalf of Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2022 8:25 AM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* Marco Mangelsdorf >>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 >>> >>> *EXTERNAL EMAIL* - *Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or >>> downloading attachments.* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Aloha all, >>> Was looking over the new IQ8 line-up. And couldn't find a model that's >>> compatible with 96-cell mods (and the associated higher Vmp). >>> Is there an IQ8 model that's a good match for 96-celled mods? Or is >>> that model exclusive to the deal Enphase has with SunPower to provide >>> micros for their Equinox AC mod line? >>> Mahalo, >>> marco >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Apr 14 22:38:40 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 19:38:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question In-Reply-To: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> References: <5f7e3778e771a85c327d40fbe0621564@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Wrenches In the am it will latch up but in the hotter days the inverter may not reconnect in the event of corrected outage resulting in no production through the rest of the day, if the VMPPT falls below minimum tracking you might not get much production due to fixed power settings. I have seen this issue from other combo's. Suggest either a different inverter or module. Jerry On Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 1:56 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified > by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to > the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high. > > An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A > > • Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V > • Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V > • Voc of the module is 40.7 V > > Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max > power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of > the inverter or the Vmmp? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Apr 15 01:52:13 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 22:52:13 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water well telemetry Message-ID: Friends: Can anyone recommend manufacturers of equipment for remote telemetry for Ag wells? Thanks in advance. William Miller -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 09:01:24 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 07:01:24 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules Message-ID: Hi Wrenches, We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? Thanks! -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Fri Apr 15 09:28:54 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:28:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9B7458D9-D079-4C6C-855B-DD28045F9D50@mavericksolar.com> I’ve had good results from a combo of power washing and the Magic Eraser for paint dust in the texture of the glass. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Apr 15, 2022, at 8:01 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi Wrenches, > > We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? > > Thanks! > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cometenergysystems at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 10:17:59 2022 From: cometenergysystems at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:17:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a razor blade. I doubt you can take if off chemically. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 9:01 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Wrenches, > > We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) > the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were > using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you > might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? > > Thanks! > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Apr 15 10:44:25 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:44:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Razors & Removing paint from solar modules Message-ID: <002901d850d7$4dccfca0$e966f5e0$@solarwork.com> If your use a razor only use a fresh razor blades. The moment you feel burrs stop & replace the razor as the burrs will scratch the glass. Also keep the surface always wet with a soapy solution [surfactant] to keep the surface slick & this extends the short life of a razors edge. Use a razor handle to hold the blade & keep a first aid kit available. Soapy water & razor blades have interesting incidents. I owned a window tint shop 40 years ago & definitely had my share of razor cuts. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Chris Mason via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 8:18 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Chris Mason Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules Just a razor blade. I doubt you can take if off chemically. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 9:01 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi Wrenches, We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? Thanks! -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Apr 15 10:45:11 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:45:11 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002e01d850d7$694a0900$3bde1b00$@solarwork.com> Also Latex paint come off with Isopropyl Alcohol. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 7:01 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Mac Lewis Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules Hi Wrenches, We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? Thanks! -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garrison.rie at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 10:56:57 2022 From: garrison.rie at gmail.com (Garrison) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 09:56:57 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: <002e01d850d7$694a0900$3bde1b00$@solarwork.com> References: <002e01d850d7$694a0900$3bde1b00$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <33B3620E-F921-4F07-8CEB-4B056F67B1AC@gmail.com> Hi Mac, I second the isopropyl alcohol (diluted), a soft cloth, and razor blade if needed. Magic erasers would probably work too, but I believe they are made from very hard microscopic crystals. Good luck. Garrison Riegel Celestar Solar LLC > On Apr 15, 2022, at 9:45 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Also Latex paint come off with Isopropyl Alcohol. > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 7:01 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Mac Lewis > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules > > Hi Wrenches, > > We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? > > Thanks! > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Fri Apr 15 10:57:55 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 14:57:55 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: <33B3620E-F921-4F07-8CEB-4B056F67B1AC@gmail.com> References: <002e01d850d7$694a0900$3bde1b00$@solarwork.com> <33B3620E-F921-4F07-8CEB-4B056F67B1AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Tarps work great too! George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Garrison via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 7:57 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Garrison Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules Hi Mac, I second the isopropyl alcohol (diluted), a soft cloth, and razor blade if needed. Magic erasers would probably work too, but I believe they are made from very hard microscopic crystals. Good luck. Garrison Riegel Celestar Solar LLC On Apr 15, 2022, at 9:45 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote:  Also Latex paint come off with Isopropyl Alcohol. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 7:01 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Mac Lewis > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules Hi Wrenches, We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? Thanks! -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 15 10:59:58 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:59:58 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k Message-ID: I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? Jason Szumlanski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri Apr 15 12:05:04 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:05:04 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: <33B3620E-F921-4F07-8CEB-4B056F67B1AC@gmail.com> References: <002e01d850d7$694a0900$3bde1b00$@solarwork.com> <33B3620E-F921-4F07-8CEB-4B056F67B1AC@gmail.com> Message-ID: Not to sound like a commercial, but I've had good results with "Tub O'Towels" heavy duty wipes.   Its got a lemon base that seems easy on most surfaces, but it will take paint off with a few seconds of elbow grease.   Hoe Depot has them sometimes, or Northern Tool carries them too.  You'll use them for all sorts of stuff; good to keep on the truck. Monk Wipes Heavy Duty Hand Cleaner | Large 9.6″ x 12 ... Ray Remote Solar On 4/15/2022 8:56 AM, Garrison via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Mac, > > I second the isopropyl alcohol (diluted), a soft cloth, and razor > blade if needed. > > Magic erasers would probably work too, but I believe they are made > from very hard microscopic crystals. > > Good luck. > > Garrison Riegel > Celestar Solar LLC > >> On Apr 15, 2022, at 9:45 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> Also Latex paint come off with Isopropyl Alcohol. >> >> Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com* >> >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374 >> >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> >> >> _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" ___ >> >> *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Friday, April 15, 2022 7:01 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Mac Lewis >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules >> >> Hi Wrenches, >> >> We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of >> course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar >> modules.  They were using a latex water-based exterior paint.  Are >> there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up?  >> Or just elbow grease? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> >> Mac Lewis** >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates*** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Apr 15 12:44:38 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:44:38 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Legacy micro replacement Message-ID: I have been dealing with a legacy Enphase system ever since the installation about 11-12 years ago. And I stopped using Enphase after the massive failure rate of these first gen M190 inverters. Almost all of them have been replaced at least once, the good news is I only have about -15- of the originals waiting to fail out of -113-. As some of you know RMA replacements were at first the original M190 (i.e. the type daisy chained w/ "internal" trunk cable), then the M215 with a dedicated trunk cable, sent with adapters to mate with the M190, lastly the IQ7 w/ its own adapters to the M190 and M215. So my system is 208, 3-phase. I just swapped out -5- more of the M190's with newer generation models and am getting "ac out of range" errors on half of the micros that were working fine before the swap. The error is not unique to any one string. I wonder if all this replacing with multi-gen micros has created a phase imbalance. Enphase stresses keeping the phases balanced, but I don't see how they can follow their own advice mating all these different micros together. I am awaiting their response. Are the original M190s a true 3-phase output? Or are they smart enough internally to balance the phases through some sort of switching? The M215s and IQ7 series are 208 single phase, and the trunk cable is wired in a repeating connector-to-connector: Line A-B, A-C, B-C single phase arrangement for balancing. All thoughts welcome, thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 15 12:48:40 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:48:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Legacy micro replacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk, We have seen many of the conversion kits not work out of the box. I believe it is a firmware/software mismatch issue. If you call Enphase, ask them to make sure the Envoy software is compatible with the conversion kit microinverter and update all software. This should resolve the issue. Jason Szumlanski On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 12:45 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have been dealing with a legacy Enphase system ever since the > installation about 11-12 years ago. And I stopped using Enphase after the > massive failure rate of these first gen M190 inverters. Almost all of them > have been replaced at least once, the good news is I only have about -15- > of the originals waiting to fail out of -113-. > > As some of you know RMA replacements were at first the original M190 (i.e. > the type daisy chained w/ "internal" trunk cable), then the M215 with a > dedicated trunk cable, sent with adapters to mate with the M190, lastly the > IQ7 w/ its own adapters to the M190 and M215. > > So my system is 208, 3-phase. I just swapped out -5- more of the M190's > with newer generation models and am getting "ac out of range" errors on > half of the micros that were working fine before the swap. The error is not > unique to any one string. > > I wonder if all this replacing with multi-gen micros has created a phase > imbalance. Enphase stresses keeping the phases balanced, but I don't see > how they can follow their own advice mating all these different micros > together. I am awaiting their response. > > Are the original M190s a true 3-phase output? Or are they smart enough > internally to balance the phases through some sort of switching? The M215s > and IQ7 series are 208 single phase, and the trunk cable is wired in a > repeating connector-to-connector: Line A-B, A-C, B-C single phase > arrangement for balancing. All thoughts welcome, thanks. > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Apr 15 13:00:45 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:00:45 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Legacy micro replacement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks that is exactly my request to Enphase, that they verify software compatibility. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 12:48 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Kirk, > > We have seen many of the conversion kits not work out of the box. I > believe it is a firmware/software mismatch issue. If you call Enphase, ask > them to make sure the Envoy software is compatible with the conversion kit > microinverter and update all software. This should resolve the issue. > > Jason Szumlanski > > > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 12:45 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I have been dealing with a legacy Enphase system ever since the >> installation about 11-12 years ago. And I stopped using Enphase after the >> massive failure rate of these first gen M190 inverters. Almost all of them >> have been replaced at least once, the good news is I only have about -15- >> of the originals waiting to fail out of -113-. >> >> As some of you know RMA replacements were at first the original M190 >> (i.e. the type daisy chained w/ "internal" trunk cable), then the M215 with >> a dedicated trunk cable, sent with adapters to mate with the M190, lastly >> the IQ7 w/ its own adapters to the M190 and M215. >> >> So my system is 208, 3-phase. I just swapped out -5- more of the M190's >> with newer generation models and am getting "ac out of range" errors on >> half of the micros that were working fine before the swap. The error is not >> unique to any one string. >> >> I wonder if all this replacing with multi-gen micros has created a phase >> imbalance. Enphase stresses keeping the phases balanced, but I don't see >> how they can follow their own advice mating all these different micros >> together. I am awaiting their response. >> >> Are the original M190s a true 3-phase output? Or are they smart enough >> internally to balance the phases through some sort of switching? The M215s >> and IQ7 series are 208 single phase, and the trunk cable is wired in a >> repeating connector-to-connector: Line A-B, A-C, B-C single phase >> arrangement for balancing. All thoughts welcome, thanks. >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Fri Apr 15 15:11:56 2022 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:11:56 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Razors & Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: <002901d850d7$4dccfca0$e966f5e0$@solarwork.com> References: <002901d850d7$4dccfca0$e966f5e0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <4F8323F2-CBFD-4B99-A184-B5DE8712B67C@yahoo.com> We have seen cells shattered…kind of cracked… yet still functioning, when we have heard of clients using pressure washers on panels. Andrew Koyaanisqatsi President Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future. 503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > On Apr 15, 2022, at 7:44 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > If your use a razor only use a fresh razor blades. The moment you feel burrs stop & replace the razor as the burrs will scratch the glass. Also keep the surface always wet with a soapy solution [surfactant] to keep the surface slick & this extends the short life of a razors edge. > Use a razor handle to hold the blade & keep a first aid kit available. Soapy water & razor blades have interesting incidents. I owned a window tint shop 40 years ago & definitely had my share of razor cuts. > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Chris Mason via RE-wrenches > Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 8:18 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Chris Mason > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules > > Just a razor blade. I doubt you can take if off chemically. > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 9:01 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Wrenches, > > We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? > > Thanks! > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > Chris Mason > Solar systems designer > Generac Generators Industrial technician > > Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar > Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 > WhatsApp 264.235.5670 > Skype: netconcepts > www.cometsolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at hurshtown.com Fri Apr 15 15:22:38 2022 From: mark at hurshtown.com (Mark Downing) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 19:22:38 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Razors & Removing paint from solar modules In-Reply-To: <4F8323F2-CBFD-4B99-A184-B5DE8712B67C@yahoo.com> References: <002901d850d7$4dccfca0$e966f5e0$@solarwork.com> <4F8323F2-CBFD-4B99-A184-B5DE8712B67C@yahoo.com> Message-ID: That would likely happen of the pressure spray were used on the back side of the modules. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 3:12 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Solar Energy Solutions Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Razors & Removing paint from solar modules We have seen cells shattered…kind of cracked… yet still functioning, when we have heard of clients using pressure washers on panels. Andrew Koyaanisqatsi President Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future. 503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com On Apr 15, 2022, at 7:44 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote:  If your use a razor only use a fresh razor blades. The moment you feel burrs stop & replace the razor as the burrs will scratch the glass. Also keep the surface always wet with a soapy solution [surfactant] to keep the surface slick & this extends the short life of a razors edge. Use a razor handle to hold the blade & keep a first aid kit available. Soapy water & razor blades have interesting incidents. I owned a window tint shop 40 years ago & definitely had my share of razor cuts. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Chris Mason via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 15, 2022 8:18 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Chris Mason > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Removing paint from solar modules Just a razor blade. I doubt you can take if off chemically. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 9:01 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi Wrenches, We had some painters try to paint a house in 35 mph winds and (of course) the overspray got onto some recently installed solar modules. They were using a latex water-based exterior paint. Are there any mild solvents you might recommend to help clean this up? Or just elbow grease? Thanks! -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason Solar systems designer Generac Generators Industrial technician Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar Anguilla Cell 264.235.5670 WhatsApp 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts www.cometsolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 15 16:00:56 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:00:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A > pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then > it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. > > In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous > output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A > rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A > breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an > external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? > > Jason Szumlanski > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 16:27:52 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 14:27:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fronius primo grid settings Message-ID: I wonder if anyone can tell me which is the correct setting for 240v 60hz w/neutral on a fronius primo. The manual doesn’t have the same options as the inverter. I don’t need California or Hawaii settings. Thanks Jay From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 17:13:52 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:13:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Message-ID: <528EECB9-2536-45A4-B28F-F156EDBDF11A@gmail.com> I’ve been following the enphase thread. I’ve used AP systems before and so far reliable and much less expensive. Their new DS3 inverters are much less expensive and larger capacity But to the point of starting voltage MPPT range and watts DS3 voltage range: DS3 S/L 16-60v, DS3 26-60v MPPT range: DS3 -S 22-48v DS3-L 25-55v DS3. 32-55 Wattage -S 640 va -L 768 va DS3 880 va I’ve got a system for micros coming up and probably leaning this way. Curious what others think Jay From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 20:43:52 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 20:43:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jason, You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD of the unit? -Chris On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC coupled > capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < > jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > >> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A >> pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then >> it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >> >> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous >> output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A >> rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A >> breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an >> external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Apr 15 21:26:37 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:26:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be plus your margin. On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Jason, > > You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you > size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD > of the unit? > > -Chris > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A >>> pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then >>> it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>> >>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous >>> output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A >>> rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A >>> breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an >>> external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 15 21:41:50 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:41:50 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's a different scenario, as a 100A genny would have a 100A OCPD. I understand that the inverter output rating is limited, but what section of code allows a 200A breaker to protect a #4 wire? On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 9:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design and > operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected wiring is > rated for the max output of the protected source then you are good. A 200 > ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will never meet > that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be plus your > margin. > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> >> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you >> size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD >> of the unit? >> >> -Chris >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has >>>> 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But >>>> then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>> >>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous >>>> output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A >>>> rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A >>>> breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an >>>> external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.parrish at calsolareng.com Sat Apr 16 12:49:12 2022 From: peter.parrish at calsolareng.com (petertor@pobox.com) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? Message-ID: <906110126.1120768.1650127752413@email.ionos.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Sat Apr 16 15:39:37 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 15:39:37 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? Message-ID: Take a look at Cybo inverters-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: petertor--- via RE-wrenchesDate: Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PMTo: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org;Cc: petertor at pobox.com;Subject:[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in advance for my ignorance wrt product availability.  I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage. I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest. Does such an component exist? Thanks in advance for any help. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.President, California Solar Engineering1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351South Pasadena, CA 91030(323) 839-6108 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 18:34:46 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 17:34:46 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design and > operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected wiring is > rated for the max output of the protected source then you are good. A 200 > ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will never meet > that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be plus your > margin. > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Jason, >> >> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you >> size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD >> of the unit? >> >> -Chris >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has >>>> 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But >>>> then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>> >>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous >>>> output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A >>>> rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A >>>> breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an >>>> external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 18:59:29 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 17:59:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120 volts or 240 volts. The voltage out times the current out was equal to the voltage in times current in. This allowed me to operate a resistance load, like a water heater. On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Take a look at Cybo inverters > > -Glenn > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches > *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM > *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; > *Cc: *petertor at pobox.com; > *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) > Version of Microinverters? > > It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in > advance for my ignorance wrt product availability. > > I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied > microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such > as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a > microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is > preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters > and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage. > > I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest. > > Does such an component exist? > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > - Peter > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. > President, California Solar Engineering > 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Sat Apr 16 22:06:32 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 21:06:32 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in an off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. -Chris On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can put > any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. REmember > in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The DC best > example is solar modules connected in parallel, on > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design and >> operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected wiring is >> rated for the max output of the protected source then you are good. A 200 >> ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will never meet >> that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be plus your >> margin. >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jason, >>> >>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you >>> size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD >>> of the unit? >>> >>> -Chris >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has >>>>> 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But >>>>> then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>> >>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> -- >>> Chris Sparadeo >>> >>> >>> C_802-369-4458 >>> H_802-728-3059 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Apr 16 22:15:49 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:15:49 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. Jason On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jason, > > Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could allow > for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, load > output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously > depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. > > What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in an > off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to > integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused > disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the > integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. > > -Chris > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can put >> any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. REmember >> in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The DC best >> example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design >>> and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected >>> wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are >>> good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will >>> never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be >>> plus your margin. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Jason, >>>> >>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you >>>> size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD >>>> of the unit? >>>> >>>> -Chris >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has >>>>>> 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But >>>>>> then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>> >>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 11:28:59 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:28:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with multiple sources see 705 On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a > separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros > and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A > services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. > > Jason > > > > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Jason, >> >> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could >> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, >> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously >> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >> >> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in an >> off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to >> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused >> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the >> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >> >> -Chris >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can put >>> any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. REmember >>> in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The DC best >>> example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design >>>> and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected >>>> wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are >>>> good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will >>>> never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be >>>> plus your margin. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>> >>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do >>>>> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the >>>>> OCPD of the unit? >>>>> >>>>> -Chris >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>>>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has >>>>>>> 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But >>>>>>> then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sun Apr 17 11:39:21 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:39:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A. Jason On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet > and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with > multiple sources see 705 > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a >> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros >> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A >> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Jason, >>> >>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could >>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, >>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously >>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >>> >>> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in an >>> off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to >>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused >>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the >>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >>> >>> -Chris >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can >>>> put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. >>>> REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The >>>> DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design >>>>> and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected >>>>> wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are >>>>> good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will >>>>> never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be >>>>> plus your margin. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>> >>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do >>>>>> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the >>>>>> OCPD of the unit? >>>>>> >>>>>> -Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>>>>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has >>>>>>>> 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But >>>>>>>> then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.parrish at calsolareng.com Sun Apr 17 12:16:41 2022 From: peter.parrish at calsolareng.com (petertor@pobox.com) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1647943937.2648432.1650212201061@email.ionos.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sun Apr 17 14:08:24 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:08:24 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? In-Reply-To: <1647943937.2648432.1650212201061@email.ionos.com> References: <1647943937.2648432.1650212201061@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: Cybo is quite interesting. Makes me want to change my refusal to install solar DHW anymore. On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 12:16 PM petertor--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load > scenarios covered. > > I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the > Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four > DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs. > PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different > charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC. > > - Peter > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. > President, California Solar Engineering > 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > > On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most > familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120 > volts or 240 volts. The voltage out times the current out was equal to the > voltage in times current in. This allowed me to operate a resistance load, > like a water heater. > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Take a look at Cybo inverters > > -Glenn > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches > *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM > *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; > *Cc: *petertor at pobox.com; > *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) > Version of Microinverters? > > It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in > advance for my ignorance wrt product availability. > > I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied > microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such > as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a > microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is > preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters > and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage. > > I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest. > > Does such an component exist? > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > - Peter > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. > President, California Solar Engineering > 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood > Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List > Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email > address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List > rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or > update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. > President, SolarGnosis > 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 16:08:56 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:08:56 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? In-Reply-To: References: <1647943937.2648432.1650212201061@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: I presented a paper several years ago outlining a similar system using one thermal water heater and comparing it to a PV-based system. In my tests, the PV-system outperformed the solar thermal system in energy per square foot of collector. There were sometime the Solar Thermal would out perform at midday and bright sun. But not for the whole day the PV system would always win. The trick was operation of the thermostat, the Cybro made it possible to use the normal switch. The other method for switching was a capacitor across the terminals. On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 1:09 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Cybo is quite interesting. Makes me want to change my refusal to install > solar DHW anymore. > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 12:16 PM petertor--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load >> scenarios covered. >> >> I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the >> Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four >> DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs. >> PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different >> charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC. >> >> - Peter >> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. >> President, California Solar Engineering >> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 >> South Pasadena, CA 91030 >> (323) 839-6108 >> >> On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> >> yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most >> familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120 >> volts or 240 volts. The voltage out times the current out was equal to the >> voltage in times current in. This allowed me to operate a resistance load, >> like a water heater. >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Take a look at Cybo inverters >> >> -Glenn >> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. >> >> ------ Original message------ >> *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches >> *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM >> *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; >> *Cc: *petertor at pobox.com; >> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) >> Version of Microinverters? >> >> It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in >> advance for my ignorance wrt product availability. >> >> I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied >> microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such >> as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a >> microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is >> preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters >> and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage. >> >> I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest. >> >> Does such an component exist? >> >> Thanks in advance for any help. >> >> - Peter >> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. >> President, California Solar Engineering >> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 >> South Pasadena, CA 91030 >> (323) 839-6108 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood >> Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List >> Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email >> address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List >> rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or >> update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. >> President, SolarGnosis >> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 >> South Pasadena, CA 91030 >> (323) 839-6108 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 16:28:23 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:28:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? In-Reply-To: <1647943937.2648432.1650212201061@email.ionos.com> References: <1647943937.2648432.1650212201061@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: Hi Peter, My Cybro experience was from maybe 10 years ago; at that time, they did not have any 485 connection or Lithium connection. If the Li battery has a built-in BMS the Cybro has the standard charge profiles, of bulk, absorb, and float, I do not remember a refloat. The On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 11:16 AM petertor--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load > scenarios covered. > > I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the > Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four > DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs. > PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different > charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC. > > - Peter > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. > President, California Solar Engineering > 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > > On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most > familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120 > volts or 240 volts. The voltage out times the current out was equal to the > voltage in times current in. This allowed me to operate a resistance load, > like a water heater. > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Take a look at Cybo inverters > > -Glenn > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches > *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM > *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; > *Cc: *petertor at pobox.com; > *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) > Version of Microinverters? > > It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in > advance for my ignorance wrt product availability. > > I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied > microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such > as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a > microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is > preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters > and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage. > > I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest. > > Does such an component exist? > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > - Peter > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. > President, California Solar Engineering > 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood > Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List > Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email > address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List > rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or > update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. > President, SolarGnosis > 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sun Apr 17 16:49:27 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:49:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) Version of Microinverters? In-Reply-To: References: <1647943937.2648432.1650212201061@email.ionos.com> Message-ID: I'd be curious if they have any type of online monitoring, at least for the grie-tie versions. On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 4:28 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Peter, My Cybro experience was from maybe 10 years ago; at that time, > they did not have any 485 connection or Lithium connection. If the Li > battery has a built-in BMS the Cybro has the standard charge profiles, of > bulk, absorb, and float, I do not remember a refloat. The > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 11:16 AM petertor--- via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> This is great information folks. It looks like Cybo has most of the load >> scenarios covered. >> >> I have one last question before I call them on Monday morning: "Do the >> Cybo inverters support LiFePO4 batteries? That is, does one of their four >> DC inputs not only auto-detect batteries but does it recognize LiFePO4 vs. >> PbAcid? It is my understanding that LiFePO4 batteries need a different >> charging cycle compared to PbAcid to attain a 100% SOC. >> >> - Peter >> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. >> President, California Solar Engineering >> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 >> South Pasadena, CA 91030 >> (323) 839-6108 >> >> On 04/16/2022 3:59 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> >> yes, there are three versions of the cybo inverter, the one that I a most >> familiar with produced a 60 HZ AC signal; the voltage did not exceed 120 >> volts or 240 volts. The voltage out times the current out was equal to the >> voltage in times current in. This allowed me to operate a resistance load, >> like a water heater. >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 2:39 PM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Take a look at Cybo inverters >> >> -Glenn >> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. >> >> ------ Original message------ >> *From: *petertor--- via RE-wrenches >> *Date: *Sat, Apr 16, 2022 12:49 PM >> *To: *re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org; >> *Cc: *petertor at pobox.com; >> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Is There an "Off-grid" (i.e. constant voltage) >> Version of Microinverters? >> >> It has been a while since I installed a PV system, so I apologize in >> advance for my ignorance wrt product availability. >> >> I recently had need for the off-grid equivalent of a grid-tied >> microinverter. I have an assortment of new and not so new PV modules such >> as the Solaria mono, 400 Wp and the Jinko poly, 310 Wp. I would like a >> microinverter that makes available 120 Vac (or 240 Vac but 120 is >> preferable), 60 Hz. I would then take the output of these microinverters >> and combine them in a subpanel. I do not have a need for battery storage. >> >> I can explain more about the application to anyone who has an interest. >> >> Does such an component exist? >> >> Thanks in advance for any help. >> >> - Peter >> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. >> President, California Solar Engineering >> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 >> South Pasadena, CA 91030 >> (323) 839-6108 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood >> Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List >> Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email >> address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List >> rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or >> update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D. >> President, SolarGnosis >> 1107 Fair Oaks Blvd Ste. 351 >> South Pasadena, CA 91030 >> (323) 839-6108 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Apr 17 22:38:18 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 21:38:18 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere along a feeder" ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot rule ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum overcurrent'. Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of up to 10,000 amps withstand. Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2) On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. > > I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you > could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized > accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an > appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a > real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the > conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A. > > Jason > > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet >> and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with >> multiple sources see 705 >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a >>> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros >>> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A >>> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Jason, >>>> >>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could >>>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, >>>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously >>>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >>>> >>>> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in an >>>> off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to >>>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused >>>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the >>>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >>>> >>>> -Chris >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can >>>>> put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. >>>>> REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The >>>>> DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design >>>>>> and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected >>>>>> wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are >>>>>> good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will >>>>>> never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be >>>>>> plus your margin. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do >>>>>>> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the >>>>>>> OCPD of the unit? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>>>>>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It >>>>>>>>> has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. >>>>>>>>> But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 12:18:21 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 10:18:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW MPPT 80/600 rapid shut down In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> HI All I’ve got a project coming up that has specified a Schneider XW 80/600 controller. Its going to need RS. Is the only product still the Tigo TS4-A-F? thanks jay From bbassett2 at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 12:47:42 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:47:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW MPPT 80/600 rapid shut down In-Reply-To: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> References: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001FFE4E-5D85-422A-A072-1F001DFA89B0@gmail.com> AFAIK Or any of the variants of that like the dual input unit Brad Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 19, 2022, at 9:18 AM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > HI All > > I’ve got a project coming up that has specified a Schneider XW 80/600 controller. > > Its going to need RS. > > Is the only product still the Tigo TS4-A-F? > > thanks > > jay > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 15:20:48 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:20:48 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW MPPT 80/600 rapid shut down In-Reply-To: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> References: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: I understand the complete Tigo line and any sun-spec MLPE will work, however, it also requires the RSD box from Schneider I don't have experience with any other than the firestop tigo On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 11:42 AM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI All > > I’ve got a project coming up that has specified a Schneider XW 80/600 > controller. > > Its going to need RS. > > Is the only product still the Tigo TS4-A-F? > > thanks > > jay > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 18:06:14 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 15:06:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW MPPT 80/600 rapid shut down In-Reply-To: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> References: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: You may want to look at fire raptor as a RSD option. Jerry On Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 9:42 AM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI All > > I’ve got a project coming up that has specified a Schneider XW 80/600 > controller. > > Its going to need RS. > > Is the only product still the Tigo TS4-A-F? > > thanks > > jay > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 19:25:22 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 16:25:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW MPPT 80/600 rapid shut down In-Reply-To: References: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Schneider RSD switch has a Tigo transmitter, which is no longer SunSpec compliant. SunSpec devices do NOT work. I know for certain that the APsmart devices do not work. Fire Raptors are very robust and might be a good choice for off grid where reliability is paramount. But they come with 6ft cables for both control and string wires so you have to figure out what to do with all that nest of wire under the array. And you have to have a 24VC power source up to the roof to power them. The manual shows one FireRaptor for two modules, but unless you have very low voltage modules that is not going to meet code. One for each module is required to stay under the 80 VDC limit. Brad On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 3:06 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You may want to look at fire raptor as a RSD option. > Jerry > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 9:42 AM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> HI All >> >> I’ve got a project coming up that has specified a Schneider XW 80/600 >> controller. >> >> Its going to need RS. >> >> Is the only product still the Tigo TS4-A-F? >> >> thanks >> >> jay >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Tue Apr 19 19:28:38 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 18:28:38 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW MPPT 80/600 rapid shut down In-Reply-To: References: <70A5E38A-0590-47C1-A627-50B9788ED4DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes but how do you trigger fire raptor except by the fire raptor switch? It will take care of by manual control but what about 690.11? On Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 5:06 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You may want to look at fire raptor as a RSD option. > Jerry > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2022, 9:42 AM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> HI All >> >> I’ve got a project coming up that has specified a Schneider XW 80/600 >> controller. >> >> Its going to need RS. >> >> Is the only product still the Tigo TS4-A-F? >> >> thanks >> >> jay >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Fri Apr 22 14:40:57 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 11:40:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fronius in the game? Message-ID: Hi Wrenches, I recently had a friend install a Fronius Primo inverter in California. When he submitted for interconnection, PG&E said it didn't meet the current smart inverter requirements. Here is the response from Fronius tech support: "The Fronius Primo and Symo line are not compliant with Rule 21 Phase 3. With the lack of Phase 3 certification, these inverters can't be installed since June 22, 2020 in any territory of the big 3 IOUs (PG&E, SCE, SDGE) or where a listing on the CEC Grid Support (‘Smart’) Inverter list is required." Is anyone still using Fronius on this list? Is Fronius pulling out of the US market? Best, August *August Goers* Luminalt Energy Corporation www.luminalt.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Apr 22 15:17:35 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:17:35 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fronius in the game? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know the answer to your question specifically, but in Florida we are light years away from Smart Grid requirements. The latest net metering law debacle here carries us through the end of the decade. I don't think smart grid is a battle that anyone is going to fight here anytime soon, so there are plenty of sales opportunities for non-compliant inverter brands. What I can tell you is that I am going to diagnose a faulty Fronius IG Plus right now and customer support is answering the phone reasonably fast and is offering warranty support after some diagnostics. The brand is not popular around here, but I'm still seeing them pop up here and there. Jason On Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 2:41 PM August Goers via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Wrenches, > > I recently had a friend install a Fronius Primo inverter in California. > When he submitted for interconnection, PG&E said it didn't meet the current > smart inverter requirements. Here is the response from Fronius tech support: > > "The Fronius Primo and Symo line are not compliant with Rule 21 Phase 3. > With the lack of Phase 3 certification, these inverters can't be installed > since June 22, 2020 in any territory of the big 3 IOUs (PG&E, SCE, SDGE) or > where a listing on the CEC Grid Support (‘Smart’) Inverter list is > required." > > Is anyone still using Fronius on this list? Is Fronius pulling out of the > US market? > > Best, August > > *August Goers* > > Luminalt Energy Corporation > > www.luminalt.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Apr 22 16:08:52 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:08:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian, Blue Planet and SMA 21 series AC coupled Message-ID: <2e6d68d644f1f9e62fba8471b80ce501@mail.gmail.com> Friends: We are setting up our first Blue Planet system. It is AC coupled with an SMA SB7-21 back-feeding a Radian 8048. We followed all of the recommended settings when commissioning. The battery SOC is chronically stuck at 90% as displayed by the Blue Planet BMU. I think the problem is the grid sell setting is at 54 VDC. Blue Planet likes 55.2. I’m going to change that setting this afternoon but due to some mysterious Optics bug, I have to drive to the site to do so. If anyone has any experience with this kind of setup and can offer any advice, well I’d be mighty grateful. Thanks in advance. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Apr 22 16:13:21 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 13:13:21 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics will not accept remote programming Message-ID: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I installed a Radian AC coupled system a few months ago. We are trying to dial it in to work with a Blue Planet battery system. I cannot make any adjustments remotely through Optics. Once in a while if I reset the gateway I can change one setting, but rarely does it succeed. The little wheel turns for a couple of minutes and then I get a failure dialog box. I was told to power cycle the Mate. This did not solve the problem. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks for any input. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Fri Apr 22 16:53:43 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:53:43 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics will not accept remote programming In-Reply-To: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> References: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think if the MATE3S is left in the settings screen, OpticsRE can’t edit remotely. Exit the Settings section on the MATE3 (entered with the LOCK button) and you should be able to use OpticsRE to make changes. Since you might be rolling a truck, bring the latest MATE3S firmware with you, especially the newer AC coupling shift software. The get above 90%, you can force Bulk charge via the inverter charger and that will charge to the Bulk voltage helping the batteries get a to 90%. But, the next day, the inverter will just be idle unless ReBulk is triggered. The inverter will be in passthru and SunnyBoy does the selling. I added AC relays between the SunnyBoy and their breaker just in case the battery voltage got too high during off grid periods and other Radian charger events. Good luck and have fun! Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:13 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Friends: > > I installed a Radian AC coupled system a few months ago. We are trying to dial it in to work with a Blue Planet battery system. > > I cannot make any adjustments remotely through Optics. Once in a while if I reset the gateway I can change one setting, but rarely does it succeed. The little wheel turns for a couple of minutes and then I get a failure dialog box. > > I was told to power cycle the Mate. This did not solve the problem. > > Has anyone else experienced this? > > Thanks for any input. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Fri Apr 22 17:06:16 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 17:06:16 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fronius in the game? Message-ID: We continue to install Fronius inverters on our ground mounted systems here in southern VT and some of eastern NY.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: August Goers via RE-wrenches Date: Fri, Apr 22, 2022 2:41 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: August Goers;Subject:[RE-wrenches] Fronius in the game?Hi Wrenches,I recently had a friend install a Fronius Primo inverter in California. When he submitted for interconnection, PG&E said it didn't meet the current smart inverter requirements. Here is the response from Fronius tech support:"The Fronius Primo and Symo line are not compliant with Rule 21 Phase 3. With the lack of Phase 3 certification, these inverters can't be installed since June 22, 2020 in any territory of the big 3 IOUs (PG&E, SCE, SDGE) or where a listing on the CEC Grid Support (‘Smart’) Inverter list is required."Is anyone still using Fronius on this list? Is Fronius pulling out of the US market?Best, AugustAugust GoersLuminalt Energy Corporation www.luminalt.com   -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Apr 22 17:09:43 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 15:09:43 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fronius in the game? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008301d8568d$4a59db90$df0d92b0$@solarwork.com> Moving to Idaho I have inherited a valley full of Fronius & SMA The only failures have had to replace have been Fronius & I replaced with SMA. All were out of warranty according to Fronius. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 3:06 PM To: August Goers via RE-wrenches Cc: Glenn Burt Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius in the game? We continue to install Fronius inverters on our ground mounted systems here in southern VT and some of eastern NY. -Glenn Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. ------ Original message------ From: August Goers via RE-wrenches Date: Fri, Apr 22, 2022 2:41 PM To: RE-wrenches; Cc: August Goers; Subject:[RE-wrenches] Fronius in the game? Hi Wrenches, I recently had a friend install a Fronius Primo inverter in California. When he submitted for interconnection, PG&E said it didn't meet the current smart inverter requirements. Here is the response from Fronius tech support: "The Fronius Primo and Symo line are not compliant with Rule 21 Phase 3. With the lack of Phase 3 certification, these inverters can't be installed since June 22, 2020 in any territory of the big 3 IOUs (PG&E, SCE, SDGE) or where a listing on the CEC Grid Support (‘Smart’) Inverter list is required." Is anyone still using Fronius on this list? Is Fronius pulling out of the US market? Best, August August Goers Luminalt Energy Corporation www.luminalt.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 18:01:30 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 12:01:30 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics will not accept remote programming In-Reply-To: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> References: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I have only seen this if you have spotty signal strength to the inverter, are you hard lined out or a bridge Jerry On Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 10:31 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > I installed a Radian AC coupled system a few months ago. We are trying to > dial it in to work with a Blue Planet battery system. > > > > I cannot make any adjustments remotely through Optics. Once in a while if > I reset the gateway I can change one setting, but rarely does it succeed. > The little wheel turns for a couple of minutes and then I get a failure > dialog box. > > > > I was told to power cycle the Mate. This did not solve the problem. > > > > Has anyone else experienced this? > > > > Thanks for any input. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 23:43:00 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 20:43:00 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian, Blue Planet and SMA 21 series AC coupled In-Reply-To: <2e6d68d644f1f9e62fba8471b80ce501@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e6d68d644f1f9e62fba8471b80ce501@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William, You can can set the sell voltage to 54.4 and that will help force a fuller charge prior to selling. Has worked for me on a site that had the same symptoms. You will find that these batteries can be 100% at both 55.2 as well as 54.4....due to the flat-ish voltage/soc curve. Hope that helps. Happy Friday! Kirpal at oregonsolarworks On Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 1:31 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > We are setting up our first Blue Planet system. It is AC coupled with an > SMA SB7-21 back-feeding a Radian 8048. We followed all of the > recommended settings when commissioning. > > > > The battery SOC is chronically stuck at 90% as displayed by the Blue > Planet BMU. > > I think the problem is the grid sell setting is at 54 VDC. Blue Planet > likes 55.2. I’m going to change that setting this afternoon but due to > some mysterious Optics bug, I have to drive to the site to do so. > > > > If anyone has any experience with this kind of setup and can offer any > advice, well I’d be mighty grateful. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Apr 22 23:56:13 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 17:56:13 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian, Blue Planet and SMA 21 series AC coupled In-Reply-To: <2e6d68d644f1f9e62fba8471b80ce501@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e6d68d644f1f9e62fba8471b80ce501@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sure if the peak voltage is not getting to the battery then low SOC will result. Programming may be a result of comms issues poor or due to old firmware. Jerry On Fri, Apr 22, 2022, 10:31 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > We are setting up our first Blue Planet system. It is AC coupled with an > SMA SB7-21 back-feeding a Radian 8048. We followed all of the > recommended settings when commissioning. > > > > The battery SOC is chronically stuck at 90% as displayed by the Blue > Planet BMU. > > I think the problem is the grid sell setting is at 54 VDC. Blue Planet > likes 55.2. I’m going to change that setting this afternoon but due to > some mysterious Optics bug, I have to drive to the site to do so. > > > > If anyone has any experience with this kind of setup and can offer any > advice, well I’d be mighty grateful. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.harkins at energycraft.com Mon Apr 25 17:37:14 2022 From: ryan.harkins at energycraft.com (Ryan Harkins) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:37:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Unirac Sunframe Cap strips?? Message-ID: Hey Wrenches - Anyone out there have stock of Unirac Sunframe Cap Strips available in the “C” size for 35mm modules? Please reach me off-list. Looking for 6 @192”. Best, Ryan Harkins NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ / Project Manager Synergy Renewable Systems, LLC PO Box 58 Stoughton, WI 53589 PH: (608) 712-7862 See our new website! www.synergyrenewablesystems.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sunframe cap c.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 151879 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2013-04-12 at 2.33.51 PM.png Type: image/png Size: 15648 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryan.harkins at energycraft.com Tue Apr 26 11:21:06 2022 From: ryan.harkins at energycraft.com (Ryan Harkins) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:21:06 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Unirac Sunframe Cap Strips? Message-ID: <20D9DB69-E354-460B-B81F-858313D1211D@energycraft.com> Hey Wrenches - Anyone out there have stock of Unirac Sunframe Cap Strips available in the “C” size for 34-36mm modules? Please reach me off-list. Looking for 6 @192”. https://www.solaris-shop.com/content/202001C%20Diagram.pdf Best, Ryan Harkins NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ / Project Manager Synergy Renewable Systems, LLC PO Box 58 Stoughton, WI 53589 PH: (608) 712-7862 See our new website! www.synergyrenewablesystems.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2013-04-12 at 2.33.51 PM.png Type: image/png Size: 15648 bytes Desc: not available URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Tue Apr 26 22:28:05 2022 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 19:28:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Unirac Sunframe Cap Strips? In-Reply-To: <20D9DB69-E354-460B-B81F-858313D1211D@energycraft.com> References: <20D9DB69-E354-460B-B81F-858313D1211D@energycraft.com> Message-ID: <1651026515039.053b200b26c489f6@re-wrenches.org> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Apr 27 12:08:24 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:08:24 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply Message-ID: Hi All, The last SMA-41 inverter I commissioned, had the option for SunSpec rapid shutdown with Secure Power Supply. I just talked to a level one tech who was not particularly familiar, but told me that with a sunspec rapid shutdown device like the JMS-F, you can still use the Secure Power Supply as if there was no rapid shutdown. I had stopped installing the SPS on rooftop systems, because if losing grid power initiates rapid shutdown, then you clearly do not have the power to run a SPS. But it sounds like maybe the inverter has the smarts to wake the solar back up once you flip the switch to activate the SPS. Can anyone here verify this? Have you done this, and does it work as expected with no extra hardware needed? Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com Wed Apr 27 18:12:56 2022 From: maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:12:56 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics will not accept remote programming In-Reply-To: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> References: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've seen something similar if there was a firmware mismatch... the mate3s had a newer firmware and the inverters had an older firmware. As was stated before, make sure that everything has the latest firmware. Otherwise, I wouldn't know where to go after that. Cheers, Kienan Maxfield Solar maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of William Miller via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 2:13 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: William Miller Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics will not accept remote programming Friends: I installed a Radian AC coupled system a few months ago. We are trying to dial it in to work with a Blue Planet battery system. I cannot make any adjustments remotely through Optics. Once in a while if I reset the gateway I can change one setting, but rarely does it succeed. The little wheel turns for a couple of minutes and then I get a failure dialog box. I was told to power cycle the Mate. This did not solve the problem. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks for any input. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Apr 27 18:32:49 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:32:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Optics will not accept remote programming In-Reply-To: References: <84c4d42276a7a535cfbcd8bc9a1da64b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Kienan: Thanks for your response. All firmware was the latest. I think I figured it out. I swapped out the Mate3S and the problem appears to be resolved. The defective Mate was only about 6 months old. No one knows why or how the Mate3s caused the problem. Thanks to all who tried to help. William Miller On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 3:13 PM Kienan Maxfield via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I've seen something similar if there was a firmware mismatch... the mate3s > had a newer firmware and the inverters had an older firmware. As was stated > before, make sure that everything has the latest firmware. > > Otherwise, I wouldn't know where to go after that. > > Cheers, > Kienan > > > *Maxfield Solar* > *maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com* > * (801) 631-5584 (Cell) * > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of William Miller via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2022 2:13 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* William Miller > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Optics will not accept remote programming > > > Friends: > > > > I installed a Radian AC coupled system a few months ago. We are trying to > dial it in to work with a Blue Planet battery system. > > > > I cannot make any adjustments remotely through Optics. Once in a while if > I reset the gateway I can change one setting, but rarely does it succeed. > The little wheel turns for a couple of minutes and then I get a failure > dialog box. > > > > I was told to power cycle the Mate. This did not solve the problem. > > > > Has anyone else experienced this? > > > > Thanks for any input. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From don at energysolarnow.com Wed Apr 27 21:21:35 2022 From: don at energysolarnow.com (don energysolarnow.com) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 01:21:35 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:08:24 -0400 From: Dave Tedeyan To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi All, The last SMA-41 inverter I commissioned, had the option for SunSpec rapid shutdown with Secure Power Supply. I just talked to a level one tech who was not particularly familiar, but told me that with a sunspec rapid shutdown device like the JMS-F, you can still use the Secure Power Supply as if there was no rapid shutdown. I had stopped installing the SPS on rooftop systems, because if losing grid power initiates rapid shutdown, then you clearly do not have the power to run a SPS. But it sounds like maybe the inverter has the smarts to wake the solar back up once you flip the switch to activate the SPS. Can anyone here verify this? Have you done this, and does it work as expected with no extra hardware needed? Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 Hi Dave I just installed a pair of SB7.7-US41 inverters with the JMS-F Sunspec devices. The onboard software setup specifies that the Secure Power outlet will not work with the JMS-F devices. These are de-activated when the AC power is off, so even if you connected the Secure Power outlet there is no signal to turn on the JMS-F switches. Don Barch Energy Solar 707-483-4751 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com Thu Apr 28 12:11:25 2022 From: Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:11:25 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave - Unfortunately the SPS feature is not "back" fully. Choosing "yes" during commissioning for the SPS feature allows for it to work (with switch and outlet installed) but ONLY for the same solar day as an outage occurs. When the Sunny Boy goes to sleep, the sunspec transmitter will stop and the array will be in shutdown the next day. Apologies for any confusion, as this is not the "same" SPS that we have been talking about since 2013.... Please also note that choosing "yes" for the SPS feature during commissioning means the DC disconnect must be the Rapid Shutdown initiator, as the SunSpec signal must be disconnected from the array when the grid fails to trigger shutdown. If the AC breaker or other AC disconnect is to be used as the RSI, "no" should be chosen for that second menu choice after "Sunspec" is chosen for shutdown method on tab 4 of the Install Assistant. It is unlikely that this generation of Sunny Boy will improve the SPS situation, but SMA is working to fully reintroduce the SPS feature with the next gen Sunny Boy. Stay tuned... Best regards - Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 Mobile: +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish [cid:image001.jpg at 01D85AE8.4EAB6EC0] [Linkedin Logo] [cid:image003.jpg at 01D85AE8.4EAB6EC0] [Graphical user interface, text, website Description automatically generated] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2022 10:08 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Dave Tedeyan Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply Hi All, The last SMA-41 inverter I commissioned, had the option for SunSpec rapid shutdown with Secure Power Supply. I just talked to a level one tech who was not particularly familiar, but told me that with a sunspec rapid shutdown device like the JMS-F, you can still use the Secure Power Supply as if there was no rapid shutdown. I had stopped installing the SPS on rooftop systems, because if losing grid power initiates rapid shutdown, then you clearly do not have the power to run a SPS. But it sounds like maybe the inverter has the smarts to wake the solar back up once you flip the switch to activate the SPS. Can anyone here verify this? Have you done this, and does it work as expected with no extra hardware needed? Cheers, Dave -- [Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 717 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 731 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 480 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19823 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Apr 28 12:41:54 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:41:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4448d996-1c32-ab42-d72b-fc7ff6889d67@psln.com> Chalk it up as another reason Rapid Shutdown is a bummer. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 4/28/2022 9:11 AM, Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Dave – Unfortunately the SPS feature is not “back” fully.  Choosing > “yes” during commissioning for the SPS feature allows for it to work > (with switch and outlet installed) but ONLY for the same solar day as > an outage occurs. > > When the Sunny Boy goes to sleep, the sunspec transmitter will stop > and the array will be in shutdown the next day. > > Apologies for any confusion, as this is not the “same” SPS that we > have been talking about since 2013…. > > Please also note that choosing “yes” for the SPS feature during > commissioning means the DC disconnect must be the Rapid Shutdown > initiator, as the SunSpec signal must be disconnected from the array > when the grid fails to trigger shutdown.  If the AC breaker or other > AC disconnect is to be used as the RSI, “no” should be chosen for that > second menu choice after “Sunspec” is chosen for shutdown method on > tab 4 of the Install Assistant. > > It is unlikely that this generation of Sunny Boy will improve the SPS > situation, but SMA is working to fully reintroduce the SPS feature > with the next gen Sunny Boy.  Stay tuned… > > Best regards – > > Mike > > > Michael Mahon > Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy > *SMA America* > > 3925 Atherton Rd > > Rocklin, CA 95765 > Mobile:   +1 916 918 9412_ > www.SMA-America.com > _ > > Solar Academy website > > > Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English > > and Spanish > > > > Linkedin Logo > > > > > Graphical user interface, text, website Description automatically > generated > > > This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC > confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the > intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email > (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately > and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and > any attachments thereto. Thank you. > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2022 10:08 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Dave Tedeyan > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] SMA Rapid Shutdown and Secure Power Supply > > Hi All, > > The last SMA-41 inverter I commissioned, had the option for SunSpec > rapid shutdown with Secure Power Supply. I just talked to a level one > tech who was not particularly familiar, but told me that with a > sunspec rapid shutdown device like the JMS-F, you can still use the > Secure Power Supply as if there was no rapid shutdown. I had stopped > installing the SPS on rooftop systems, because if losing grid power > initiates rapid shutdown, then you clearly do not have the power to > run a SPS. But it sounds like maybe the inverter has the smarts to > wake the solar back up once you flip the switch to activate the SPS. > Can anyone here verify this? Have you done this, and does it work as > expected with no extra hardware needed? > > Cheers, > > Dave > > -- > > Logo > > > > > *Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar* > > *p: *he | him | his* > a: *1653 Slaterville Rd.| Ithaca, NY 14850 > *w:* www.sungineersolar.com > > *c:* (607) 288-2898 > > > > _______________________________________________ > L -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 731 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 480 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Apr 28 19:54:04 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 16:54:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupled Tesla system Message-ID: <8067334cd12de7d611b10faedbe9b510@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I have two questions about AC coupling Tesla systems: 1. Are there limits on how much power can be AC coupled through a Tesla gateway? Does it depend on the quantity of power-walls connected? 2. I understand a Tesla system does not have a separate generator input so if a generator is to be incorporated, a transfer switch is required upstream of the sole AC input. If the generator were to start on a sunny day, would the gateway protect the generator from receiving sell amps from the AC coupled inverters? Thanks in advance for any information that you are allowed to share. Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Thu Apr 28 21:02:34 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:02:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupled Tesla system In-Reply-To: <8067334cd12de7d611b10faedbe9b510@mail.gmail.com> References: <8067334cd12de7d611b10faedbe9b510@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Max rating of the Gateway2 is 200A. Regarding a generator input, you're correct, there's no means that I'm aware of to integrate a backup generator with the Tesla equipment that would interact with the solar and storage. marco On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:45 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > I have two questions about AC coupling Tesla systems: > > > > 1. Are there limits on how much power can be AC coupled through a Tesla > gateway? Does it depend on the quantity of power-walls connected? > > 2. I understand a Tesla system does not have a separate generator input > so if a generator is to be incorporated, a transfer switch is required > upstream of the sole AC input. If the generator were to start on a sunny > day, would the gateway protect the generator from receiving sell amps from > the AC coupled inverters? > > > > Thanks in advance for any information that you are allowed to share. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Thu Apr 28 21:26:34 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 21:26:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupled Tesla system In-Reply-To: References: <8067334cd12de7d611b10faedbe9b510@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi William, Each Powerwall can accept 5 kW of continuous charge and 7 kW peak for 10 seconds. These values increase respectively with additional units (i.e. 10kW continuous for 2 units, 15kW for 3 etc). It’s my understanding that each unit can accept 7.6 kW of AC coupled PV. If PV is generating more than 5 kW for greater than 10 seconds , the Powerwall will frequency shift and turn off PV output. IMO not ideal to oversized a PV array greater than 5kW per unit for this reason. No great solution for incorporating a generator to recharge batteries. Also, the last time I checked, the warranty for a system without internet connection is cut in half. I have never installed a Powerwall in an off-grid scenario and don’t see a real argument for it. However, the 200A transfer switch, stack-ability and generally lower cost do make it a reasonable option for grid-tied whole home back up. Kindly, Chris On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 9:02 PM Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Max rating of the Gateway2 is 200A. > > Regarding a generator input, you're correct, there's no means that I'm > aware of to integrate a backup generator with the Tesla equipment that > would interact with the solar and storage. > marco > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:45 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Friends: >> >> >> >> I have two questions about AC coupling Tesla systems: >> >> >> >> 1. Are there limits on how much power can be AC coupled through a >> Tesla gateway? Does it depend on the quantity of power-walls connected? >> >> 2. I understand a Tesla system does not have a separate generator >> input so if a generator is to be incorporated, a transfer switch is >> required upstream of the sole AC input. If the generator were to start on >> a sunny day, would the gateway protect the generator from receiving sell >> amps from the AC coupled inverters? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for any information that you are allowed to share. >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Fri May 6 13:58:36 2022 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 10:58:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin note In-Reply-To: <1622731539975.1cbc6e0020e0e005@re-wrenches.org> References: <1622731539975.1cbc6e0020e0e005@re-wrenches.org> Message-ID: <1651859940168.56da161e263362db@re-wrenches.org> Hi gang. Any questions or responses, please contact me off list. It's very unusual to not see any posts from Wrenches for a week, so I'm using this opportunity to test the system and to give you a reminder to: Please update your biography pages (link in footer below). From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat May 7 16:43:42 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 16:43:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian question Message-ID: Ok, time to break wrenches radio silence over the last week. My question concerns the Radian battery terminal connections. I don't need nor want to use the expensive GSLC box in a 23-y.o. off-grid upgrade to a Radian. That means the battery-to-inverter connections will be exposed, unless I find another way to enclose them. Do those OB snap-on terminal covers used with the FX series work with the Radian? Any other ideas? Thanks. Over and out. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat May 7 18:09:25 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 15:09:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk: You need a place to install OCPDs, Negative and other bussing, shunts , AC distribution and an FNDC if you want one. I recommend using all the matching BOS hardware. In the old days installs were far less robust or elegant without it. This is not a place to pinch pennies, in my opinion. William On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 1:44 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Ok, time to break wrenches radio silence over the last week. > > My question concerns the Radian battery terminal connections. I don't need > nor want to use the expensive GSLC box in a 23-y.o. off-grid upgrade to a > Radian. That means the battery-to-inverter connections will be exposed, > unless I find another way to enclose them. > > Do those OB snap-on terminal covers used with the FX series work with the > Radian? Any other ideas? > > Thanks. Over and out. > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat May 7 19:56:32 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 16:56:32 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just get an empty GSLC, at least it has the breakers Jerry On Sat, May 7, 2022, 1:44 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Ok, time to break wrenches radio silence over the last week. > > My question concerns the Radian battery terminal connections. I don't need > nor want to use the expensive GSLC box in a 23-y.o. off-grid upgrade to a > Radian. That means the battery-to-inverter connections will be exposed, > unless I find another way to enclose them. > > Do those OB snap-on terminal covers used with the FX series work with the > Radian? Any other ideas? > > Thanks. Over and out. > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat May 7 20:12:42 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 20:12:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Further Clarification, Overcurrent protection etc. already exists, i’m not about to spend another $1k or more to replace it. On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 7:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Just get an empty GSLC, at least it has the breakers > Jerry > > On Sat, May 7, 2022, 1:44 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Ok, time to break wrenches radio silence over the last week. >> >> My question concerns the Radian battery terminal connections. I don't >> need nor want to use the expensive GSLC box in a 23-y.o. off-grid upgrade >> to a Radian. That means the battery-to-inverter connections will be >> exposed, unless I find another way to enclose them. >> >> Do those OB snap-on terminal covers used with the FX series work with the >> Radian? Any other ideas? >> >> Thanks. Over and out. >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Sat May 7 20:57:40 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 00:57:40 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirk, Ilsco or Marathon power distribution blocks with snap on covers? Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 8:12:42 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Kirk Herander Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian question Further Clarification, Overcurrent protection etc. already exists, i’m not about to spend another $1k or more to replace it. On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 7:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: Just get an empty GSLC, at least it has the breakers Jerry On Sat, May 7, 2022, 1:44 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches > wrote: Ok, time to break wrenches radio silence over the last week. My question concerns the Radian battery terminal connections. I don't need nor want to use the expensive GSLC box in a 23-y.o. off-grid upgrade to a Radian. That means the battery-to-inverter connections will be exposed, unless I find another way to enclose them. Do those OB snap-on terminal covers used with the FX series work with the Radian? Any other ideas? Thanks. Over and out. -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:16:56 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 21:16:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. Is this your conclusion as well? On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:38 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere > along a feeder" ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot > rule ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum > overcurrent'. Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of > up to 10,000 amps withstand. Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2) > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. >> >> I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you >> could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized >> accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an >> appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a >> real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the >> conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A. >> >> Jason >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet >>> and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with >>> multiple sources see 705 >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a >>>> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros >>>> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A >>>> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jason, >>>>> >>>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could >>>>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, >>>>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously >>>>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >>>>> >>>>> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in >>>>> an off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to >>>>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused >>>>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the >>>>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >>>>> >>>>> -Chris >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can >>>>>> put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. >>>>>> REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The >>>>>> DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the >>>>>>> design and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and >>>>>>> connected wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then >>>>>>> you are good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as >>>>>>> it will never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output >>>>>>> can be plus your margin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do >>>>>>>> you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the >>>>>>>> OCPD of the unit? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >>>>>>>>> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It >>>>>>>>>> has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. >>>>>>>>>> But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>>>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>>>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat May 7 21:43:10 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 19:43:10 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E5D3C7E-7384-47E6-B446-2A0D400432D3@gmail.com> Get a section of 8” gutter. It will fit nicely under the inverter. Obviously cutting holes in the top for all the wire, inverter connections. I haven’t tried the vfx covers but it’s the same plastic insulated connectors, should fit. Jay > On May 7, 2022, at 6:12 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Further Clarification, Overcurrent protection etc. already exists, i’m not about to spend another $1k or more to replace it. > >> On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 7:56 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Just get an empty GSLC, at least it has the breakers >> Jerry >> >>> On Sat, May 7, 2022, 1:44 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> Ok, time to break wrenches radio silence over the last week. >>> >>> My question concerns the Radian battery terminal connections. I don't need nor want to use the expensive GSLC box in a 23-y.o. off-grid upgrade to a Radian. That means the battery-to-inverter connections will be exposed, unless I find another way to enclose them. >>> >>> Do those OB snap-on terminal covers used with the FX series work with the Radian? Any other ideas? >>> >>> Thanks. Over and out. >>> -- >>> Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar >>> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC >>> Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! >>> www.vermont.solar >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun May 8 08:57:07 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 06:57:07 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Hi Chris, Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? Jay > On May 7, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Jason, > > I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. > > Is this your conclusion as well? > >> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:38 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere along a feeder" ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot rule ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum overcurrent'. Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of up to 10,000 amps withstand. Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2) >> >>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. >>> >>> I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, you could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with multiple sources see 705 >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>> Jason, >>>>>> >>>>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in an off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Chris >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the design and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and connected wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then you are good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as it will never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output can be plus your margin. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD of the unit? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sun May 8 14:03:55 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 11:03:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> References: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: We cut out the bottom plate entirely with a die grinder/cut off wheel and then wrap the raw edge with vinyl "edge wrap" and set the inverters on top of 10 x 10 x whatever gutters. The layout and sizes of Sol-Arks knock-outs is screwy. Just need a bonding jumper between both enclosures. This is common practice in the industrial world when dealing with large VFDs and such. On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 6:47 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? > > Jay > > On May 7, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Jason, > > I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My > hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a > >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe > to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. > > Is this your conclusion as well? > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:38 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere >> along a feeder" ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot >> rule ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum >> overcurrent'. Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of >> up to 10,000 amps withstand. Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2) >> >> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. >>> >>> I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, >>> you could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized >>> accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an >>> appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a >>> real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the >>> conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 feet >>>> and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with >>>> multiple sources see 705 >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a >>>>> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros >>>>> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A >>>>> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jason, >>>>>> >>>>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could >>>>>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, >>>>>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously >>>>>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in >>>>>> an off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to >>>>>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused >>>>>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the >>>>>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you can >>>>>>> put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. >>>>>>> REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The >>>>>>> DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the >>>>>>>> design and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and >>>>>>>> connected wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then >>>>>>>> you are good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as >>>>>>>> it will never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output >>>>>>>> can be plus your margin. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k >>>>>>>>> do you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or >>>>>>>>> the OCPD of the unit? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and >>>>>>>>>> DC coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>>>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It >>>>>>>>>>> has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. >>>>>>>>>>> But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>>>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>>>>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>>>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>>>>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sun May 8 14:15:17 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 11:15:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Be carefull about modifying inverters or any cabinets with long term warranties because modifying may result in sending your unit for repair and not getting exchange units in the event of a warranty issue. Outback is served in parts so that may not be an issue, solark is too soon to tell. Fronius refused to warranty inverters because they say the shell was modified. But hey thats my luck On Sun, May 8, 2022, 11:04 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We cut out the bottom plate entirely with a die grinder/cut off wheel and > then wrap the raw edge with vinyl "edge wrap" and set the inverters on top > of 10 x 10 x whatever gutters. The layout and sizes of Sol-Arks knock-outs > is screwy. Just need a bonding jumper between both enclosures. This is > common practice in the industrial world when dealing with large VFDs and > such. > > > On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 6:47 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? >> >> Jay >> >> On May 7, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> Jason, >> >> I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My >> hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a >> >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe >> to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. >> >> Is this your conclusion as well? >> >> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:38 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Yes and no, I think this is a tap, "a tap shall be permitted anywhere >>> along a feeder" ' as long as it is less than a 10-foot rule or 25-foot >>> rule ending in a listed OCPD with a rating sufficient to handle the maximum >>> overcurrent'. Service equipment residential is rated for fault currents of >>> up to 10,000 amps withstand. Refer to 240.4.B and 240.21 (B) (1 & 2) >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:39 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> But this isn't a tap. It's a feeder conductor connected to an OCPD. >>>> >>>> I guess if you don't have a grid in or generator in or AC Coupled PV, >>>> you could just call it an inverter output circuit and it could be sized >>>> accordingly. But it would still need to be protected at it's source by an >>>> appropriately rated OCPD. Don't get me wrong... I don't think there is a >>>> real safety issue here, but I also don't see how the NEC allows the >>>> conductor to be sized for anything less than 200A. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 11:29 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The tap rule says you can reduce to 10% of the nominal size for 10 >>>>> feet and protect at the downstream OCPD or 25% for 25 feet for solar with >>>>> multiple sources see 705 >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 9:16 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's what I'm thinking. You would need to use a 200A conductor to a >>>>>> separate load out OCPD before downsizing the wire. I guess there are pros >>>>>> and cons, but it seems this is geared toward whole house backup for 200A >>>>>> services. I'm eager to get an opportunity to use it in that scenario. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022, 10:06 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any additional OCPD downstream of the 200A load output breaker could >>>>>>> allow for a smaller wire size to be used at these terminals. For example, >>>>>>> load output conductors run to a 100A main breaker panel board. Obviously >>>>>>> depending on circumstances, a #4 copper could fit the bill. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I’m not extremely excited about with the new design is that in >>>>>>> an off-grid scenario with a generator and smart load, we would now need to >>>>>>> integrate an AC disconnect for generator input (grid) and either a fused >>>>>>> disconnect or loads panel for any smart load output. With the 12K unit, the >>>>>>> integrated breakers help cut down on BOS and install time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 5:35 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, The overcurrent device is to protect the conductors. you >>>>>>>> can put any size wire, but you must protect with the overcurrent device. >>>>>>>> REmember in solar equipment; you may have more than one supply source. The >>>>>>>> DC best example is solar modules connected in parallel, on >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:26 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You must meet all expected source output potentials within the >>>>>>>>> design and operating limits, as long as the distribution panel and >>>>>>>>> connected wiring is rated for the max output of the protected source then >>>>>>>>> you are good. A 200 ATS connected to a 10 kW genny does not require 2/0 as >>>>>>>>> it will never meet that rating. Just remember its whatever the max output >>>>>>>>> can be plus your margin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 5:44 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Jason, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k >>>>>>>>>> do you size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or >>>>>>>>>> the OCPD of the unit? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -Chris >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and >>>>>>>>>>> DC coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>>>>>>> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It >>>>>>>>>>>> has 200A pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. >>>>>>>>>>>> But then it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max >>>>>>>>>>>> continuous output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be >>>>>>>>>>>> used with 80A rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection >>>>>>>>>>>> implemented if the 200A breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short >>>>>>>>>>>> piece of 2/0 to an external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Sun May 8 14:23:27 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 11:23:27 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've been using two gutters with multiple 12KW Sol-Arks Installs - one 4x4" that I mount immediately under the AC KOs using forward biased offset nipples (it's front face is just abouut 1/2" in front of front plane of Sol-Arks)  and then a 6x6" set back and down and reached with 4" nipples extending offset nipples so that I get an AC and DC gutter - not sure how others are dealing with need to separate AC and DC. For the PV  inputs on 12Kws I do two additional 1" KOs - one through the vertical mid-plate below the DC terminations and then one down through the bottom just to the rear of that plate.  That way using offsets I can reach the 6" DC gutter with both the Battery DC and the PV DC in one gutter.  I then use an LL to get the AC gutter back to the wall at one end.  Can send pics offlist if you are interested. I spoke to Sol-Ark a few times about the need to give us more room and better KOs - putting the DCs in one plane and the ACS in another - giving us 2" KOs for battery cables instead of forcing each cable through it's own 1" etc.  Unfortunately didn't get that message through before they had already designed the 15 KW. We have also just added KOs to the left side of the unit to bring in the PV inputs when that is more convenient. No better tool than our hydraulic KO punch! Hope that helps ~ Jeff ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater linkedin www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches > > May 8, 2022 at 11:03 AM > We cut out the bottom plate entirely with a die grinder/cut off wheel > and then wrap the raw edge with vinyl "edge wrap" and set the > inverters on top of 10 x 10 x whatever gutters. The layout and sizes > of Sol-Arks knock-outs is screwy. Just need a bonding jumper between > both enclosures. This is common practice in the industrial world when > dealing with large VFDs and such. > > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jay via RE-wrenches > May 8, 2022 at 5:57 AM > Hi Chris, > > Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? > > Jay > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches > May 7, 2022 at 6:16 PM > Jason, > > I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My > hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be > a >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a > fun pipe to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. > > Is this your conclusion as well? > > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 93349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Sun May 8 16:37:52 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 16:37:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Michael, interesting idea! Mind sharing a photo so I can conceptualize better? On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 2:23 PM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I've been using two gutters with multiple 12KW Sol-Arks Installs - one > 4x4" that I mount immediately under the AC KOs using forward biased offset > nipples (it's front face is just abouut 1/2" in front of front plane of > Sol-Arks) and then a 6x6" set back and down and reached with 4" nipples > extending offset nipples so that I get an AC and DC gutter - not sure how > others are dealing with need to separate AC and DC. > > For the PV inputs on 12Kws I do two additional 1" KOs - one through the > vertical mid-plate below the DC terminations and then one down through the > bottom just to the rear of that plate. That way using offsets I can reach > the 6" DC gutter with both the Battery DC and the PV DC in one gutter. I > then use an LL to get the AC gutter back to the wall at one end. Can send > pics offlist if you are interested. > > I spoke to Sol-Ark a few times about the need to give us more room and > better KOs - putting the DCs in one plane and the ACS in another - giving > us 2" KOs for battery cables instead of forcing each cable through it's own > 1" etc. Unfortunately didn't get that message through before they had > already designed the 15 KW. > > We have also just added KOs to the left side of the unit to bring in the > PV inputs when that is more convenient. > > No better tool than our hydraulic KO punch! > > Hope that helps ~ > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > linkedin > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches > May 8, 2022 at 11:03 AM > We cut out the bottom plate entirely with a die grinder/cut off wheel and > then wrap the raw edge with vinyl "edge wrap" and set the inverters on top > of 10 x 10 x whatever gutters. The layout and sizes of Sol-Arks knock-outs > is screwy. Just need a bonding jumper between both enclosures. This is > common practice in the industrial world when dealing with large VFDs and > such. > > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jay via RE-wrenches > May 8, 2022 at 5:57 AM > Hi Chris, > > Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? > > Jay > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches > May 7, 2022 at 6:16 PM > Jason, > > I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My > hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a > >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe > to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. > > Is this your conclusion as well? > > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 93349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Mon May 9 16:17:11 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 15:17:11 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello alk, i have caused confusion by not being complete. As i cited code says a tap can occure anywhere on a feeder, even at zero length, as long as the tap conductors are protected by ocpd. As long as the tap is less than 10 feet, 10% ampacity, or 25 feet 25% ampacity. The key is it is a tap and is over current protected. Similarly the feed to the Sol-Ark can be a tap if there is no posibility of overcurrent. To determine e this you must know the inverter characteristics. On Sun, May 8, 2022, 3:38 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Michael, interesting idea! Mind sharing a photo so I can conceptualize > better? > > > > On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 2:23 PM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I've been using two gutters with multiple 12KW Sol-Arks Installs - one >> 4x4" that I mount immediately under the AC KOs using forward biased offset >> nipples (it's front face is just abouut 1/2" in front of front plane of >> Sol-Arks) and then a 6x6" set back and down and reached with 4" nipples >> extending offset nipples so that I get an AC and DC gutter - not sure how >> others are dealing with need to separate AC and DC. >> >> For the PV inputs on 12Kws I do two additional 1" KOs - one through the >> vertical mid-plate below the DC terminations and then one down through the >> bottom just to the rear of that plate. That way using offsets I can reach >> the 6" DC gutter with both the Battery DC and the PV DC in one gutter. I >> then use an LL to get the AC gutter back to the wall at one end. Can send >> pics offlist if you are interested. >> >> I spoke to Sol-Ark a few times about the need to give us more room and >> better KOs - putting the DCs in one plane and the ACS in another - giving >> us 2" KOs for battery cables instead of forcing each cable through it's own >> 1" etc. Unfortunately didn't get that message through before they had >> already designed the 15 KW. >> >> We have also just added KOs to the left side of the unit to bring in the >> PV inputs when that is more convenient. >> >> No better tool than our hydraulic KO punch! >> >> Hope that helps ~ >> >> Jeff >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jeff Clearwater >> >> linkedin >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> cell - 413-559-9763 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> >> >> Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches >> May 8, 2022 at 11:03 AM >> We cut out the bottom plate entirely with a die grinder/cut off wheel and >> then wrap the raw edge with vinyl "edge wrap" and set the inverters on top >> of 10 x 10 x whatever gutters. The layout and sizes of Sol-Arks knock-outs >> is screwy. Just need a bonding jumper between both enclosures. This is >> common practice in the industrial world when dealing with large VFDs and >> such. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> >> Morningstar Electric >> >> PO Box 1494 >> >> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >> >> 530-921-0560 >> >> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Jay via RE-wrenches >> May 8, 2022 at 5:57 AM >> Hi Chris, >> >> Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches >> May 7, 2022 at 6:16 PM >> Jason, >> >> I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My >> hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a >> >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe >> to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. >> >> Is this your conclusion as well? >> >> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 93349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon May 9 16:41:43 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 13:41:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches The new solark 15 has a 200 amp rated contactor this is so if you want to have whole home pass through you can but if you only have an inverter then use that as your starting point and if the genny is contributing then add that is, you do not need 2/0 for a single 15 k off grid but you may grid tied. this opens up other issues that are not part of this conversation like multiple 15 and 3/0 grid tied remember KIS! On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 8:00 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A > pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then > it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. > > In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous > output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A > rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A > breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an > external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? > > Jason Szumlanski > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon May 9 17:21:31 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:21:31 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think the idea here is that 690.9 allows the inverter output conductors to be sized based on the maximum ampacity and an OCPD is actually not required is the conductor ampacity is sufficient. So in an off-grid scenario, the wires could be as small as #4. In a grid interconnected situation where there is potential pass-through current exceeding the inverter output current, the wire would need to be protected according to the available current on the grid input terminals. If there is a generator, the inverter output circuit would need to be protected based on the generator rating. The fixed 200A rating of the inverter load disconnect is the confusing part. It seems like it would be more functional if it were replaceable with various ratings of main breaker. You need additional circuit protection in most cases unless it's completely off-grid with no generator input it seems. Jason Szumlanski On Fri, Apr 15, 2022, 8:44 PM Chris Sparadeo wrote: > Hi Jason, > > You bring up a valid point….in an off-grid scenario with the 15k do you > size the conductors to the continuous capacity, surge capacity or the OCPD > of the unit? > > -Chris > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> P.S. ICYMI, this inverter has a massive combined AC coupled and DC >> coupled capacity. They allow 15kWdc plus 19.2kWac!!! Impressive. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:59 AM Jason Szumlanski < >> jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm not following the wiring diagrams for this new inverter. It has 200A >>> pass-through capability with an integrated 200A load disconnect. But then >>> it says the wire gauge for the load out wiring can be #4 to 2/0. >>> >>> In an off-grid scenario where there is no generator, the max continuous >>> output is 62.5A, so I assume 80A circuit protection could be used with 80A >>> rated wire (#4), but how is that circuit protection implemented if the 200A >>> breaker is integrated? Do you have to run a short piece of 2/0 to an >>> external 80A rated OCPD and then step down to #4? >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Mon May 9 20:43:09 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 00:43:09 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery disconnect solution Message-ID: Does anyone have a solution for operating a remote trip MN battery breaker since the BDM is gone? We do have a birdhouse, so maybe someone has a BDM, but otherwise, what to do? Batteries in a dwelling Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Mon May 9 22:00:23 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 21:00:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery disconnect solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I want to comment, maybe without value. The breaker you mention is called a "shunt trip" breaker. This is common type breaker in the electrical industry. The MN breaker has a 24 volt solenoid that trips the breaker. Shunt Trip breakers have the solenoid voltage for the system voltage. BUT the way it works!! (load side of breaker is connected to one side of the trip solenoid the other side is connected to switch and then to (neutral). When the switch is closed current rushes through the solenoid, triping the breaker stoping the solenoid current. But what to do with solar equipment? Often when the bsttery is dis onnected the losd side of the breaker does not go to neutral and the solenoid can carry current and will fsil On Mon, May 9, 2022, 7:43 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Does anyone have a solution for operating a remote trip MN battery breaker > since the BDM is gone? > > We do have a birdhouse, so maybe someone has a BDM, but otherwise, > what to do? > > Batteries in a dwelling > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Mon May 9 23:06:40 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 20:06:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sure, We are putting together a system w/ (8) Sol-Arks, (2) 400A transfer Switches and (4) 400A load centers sitting on 10 x 10 gutters, No nipples or raceways between them, we just cut a large portion of the bottoms or tops out the enclosures with matching windows cut out of the gutters. Nipples (Chase, Short, conduit and offset) are only used when absolutely necessary. I will also use 2.5 x 2.5 wireways vertically in lieu of flex or raceways. Internal and external elbows too. I've always designed electrical rooms with the idea that the equipment will be swapped out in a decade or two. Also using a 20' long 10 x 10 gutter with 3/8 x 4" bussbars and 2.5 x 2.5" to connect 24 Discover AES's on this one. We'll have some pictures in a month. On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 1:38 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Michael, interesting idea! Mind sharing a photo so I can conceptualize > better? > > > > On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 2:23 PM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I've been using two gutters with multiple 12KW Sol-Arks Installs - one >> 4x4" that I mount immediately under the AC KOs using forward biased offset >> nipples (it's front face is just abouut 1/2" in front of front plane of >> Sol-Arks) and then a 6x6" set back and down and reached with 4" nipples >> extending offset nipples so that I get an AC and DC gutter - not sure how >> others are dealing with need to separate AC and DC. >> >> For the PV inputs on 12Kws I do two additional 1" KOs - one through the >> vertical mid-plate below the DC terminations and then one down through the >> bottom just to the rear of that plate. That way using offsets I can reach >> the 6" DC gutter with both the Battery DC and the PV DC in one gutter. I >> then use an LL to get the AC gutter back to the wall at one end. Can send >> pics offlist if you are interested. >> >> I spoke to Sol-Ark a few times about the need to give us more room and >> better KOs - putting the DCs in one plane and the ACS in another - giving >> us 2" KOs for battery cables instead of forcing each cable through it's own >> 1" etc. Unfortunately didn't get that message through before they had >> already designed the 15 KW. >> >> We have also just added KOs to the left side of the unit to bring in the >> PV inputs when that is more convenient. >> >> No better tool than our hydraulic KO punch! >> >> Hope that helps ~ >> >> Jeff >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Jeff Clearwater >> >> linkedin >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> cell - 413-559-9763 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> >> >> >> Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches >> May 8, 2022 at 11:03 AM >> We cut out the bottom plate entirely with a die grinder/cut off wheel and >> then wrap the raw edge with vinyl "edge wrap" and set the inverters on top >> of 10 x 10 x whatever gutters. The layout and sizes of Sol-Arks knock-outs >> is screwy. Just need a bonding jumper between both enclosures. This is >> common practice in the industrial world when dealing with large VFDs and >> such. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> >> Morningstar Electric >> >> PO Box 1494 >> >> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >> >> 530-921-0560 >> >> mjmorningstar at gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Jay via RE-wrenches >> May 8, 2022 at 5:57 AM >> Hi Chris, >> >> Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches >> May 7, 2022 at 6:16 PM >> Jason, >> >> I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My >> hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a >> >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe >> to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. >> >> Is this your conclusion as well? >> >> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 93349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bob at midnitesolar.com Tue May 10 01:36:39 2022 From: bob at midnitesolar.com (bob at midnitesolar.com) Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 22:36:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery disconnect solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0f2c1df9-8a0a-e11d-2790-3f940ed5dfa7@midnitesolar.com> I understand that MidNite is working on a new product to replace the BDM. Makes sense actually.   I don't know any more than that though. Robin Gudgel would know more. boB 🌜 boB Gudgel 🌜 On 5/9/2022 5:43 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > Does anyone have a solution for operating a remote trip MN battery > breaker since the BDM is gone? > > We do have a birdhouse, so maybe someone has a BDM, but otherwise, > what to do? > > Batteries in a dwelling > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Tue May 10 13:17:06 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 10:17:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark arc fault issues Message-ID: A general question for those who have installed Sol-Ark. We have a handful of systems that have consistently displayed arc-faults that, as best as we can determine, are false positives. Is this something others have experienced? We are trying to determine if this is a general problem with Sol-Ark or if we are having poor luck. Our other string inverter systems are not displaying this problem, which leads us to believe it isn't due to installer error. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roland at renewablenergy.com Tue May 10 13:23:14 2022 From: roland at renewablenergy.com (Roland Shackelford) Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 07:23:14 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark arc fault issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have had the same issues in the past, their newest firmware seems to have fixed the issue. Mahalo, Roland Shackelford President / Owner Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. | www.renewablenergy.com | Mobile: 808-938-9239 | Office: 808-775-7410 | Fax: 808-775-7756 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-162 " Where there is integrity, there will be trust. Where there is trust, there will be an atmosphere for success." - Sadhguru *Privileged And Confidential Communication. This electronic transmission, and any documents attached hereto, (a) are protected by the Electronic Privacy Act (18 USC ?? 2510-2521), (b) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information, and (c) are for the sole use of the intended recipient named above. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender and delete the electronic message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of the information received in error is strictly prohibited. On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 7:17 AM Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > A general question for those who have installed Sol-Ark. > We have a handful of systems that have consistently displayed arc-faults > that, as best as we can determine, are false positives. Is this something > others have experienced? We are trying to determine if this is a general > problem with Sol-Ark or if we are having poor luck. > Our other string inverter systems are not displaying this problem, which > leads us to believe it isn't due to installer error. > > *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> > T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> > *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * > > * * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue May 10 13:28:54 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 10:28:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark arc fault issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are your solark install with arcfaults have RSD, as not all RSD devices work well and can call faults. On Tue, May 10, 2022, 10:17 AM Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > A general question for those who have installed Sol-Ark. > We have a handful of systems that have consistently displayed arc-faults > that, as best as we can determine, are false positives. Is this something > others have experienced? We are trying to determine if this is a general > problem with Sol-Ark or if we are having poor luck. > Our other string inverter systems are not displaying this problem, which > leads us to believe it isn't due to installer error. > > *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> > T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> > *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * > > * * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue May 10 16:33:26 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 13:33:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark 15k In-Reply-To: References: <17C3D41E-1B2E-40B0-8E74-BA87AB60A3BF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Just so it is abundantly clear to all that wish to modify or cut open an inverter, SMA will not do any advanced replacements of any inverters that have been modified, Outback is not a problem as they are field serviceable, SolArk is a all in one unit and any modification to the cabinet will prevent you from getting an advance replacement and increasing down time from days to weeks if not months so this may be an decision maker why not to do, I have 1 to 5 solarks on gutters with no issues getting any cabling into the unit. Jerry On Sun, May 8, 2022 at 11:23 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I've been using two gutters with multiple 12KW Sol-Arks Installs - one > 4x4" that I mount immediately under the AC KOs using forward biased offset > nipples (it's front face is just abouut 1/2" in front of front plane of > Sol-Arks) and then a 6x6" set back and down and reached with 4" nipples > extending offset nipples so that I get an AC and DC gutter - not sure how > others are dealing with need to separate AC and DC. > > For the PV inputs on 12Kws I do two additional 1" KOs - one through the > vertical mid-plate below the DC terminations and then one down through the > bottom just to the rear of that plate. That way using offsets I can reach > the 6" DC gutter with both the Battery DC and the PV DC in one gutter. I > then use an LL to get the AC gutter back to the wall at one end. Can send > pics offlist if you are interested. > > I spoke to Sol-Ark a few times about the need to give us more room and > better KOs - putting the DCs in one plane and the ACS in another - giving > us 2" KOs for battery cables instead of forcing each cable through it's own > 1" etc. Unfortunately didn't get that message through before they had > already designed the 15 KW. > > We have also just added KOs to the left side of the unit to bring in the > PV inputs when that is more convenient. > > No better tool than our hydraulic KO punch! > > Hope that helps ~ > > Jeff > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > linkedin > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches > May 8, 2022 at 11:03 AM > We cut out the bottom plate entirely with a die grinder/cut off wheel and > then wrap the raw edge with vinyl "edge wrap" and set the inverters on top > of 10 x 10 x whatever gutters. The layout and sizes of Sol-Arks knock-outs > is screwy. Just need a bonding jumper between both enclosures. This is > common practice in the industrial world when dealing with large VFDs and > such. > > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Jay via RE-wrenches > May 8, 2022 at 5:57 AM > Hi Chris, > > Can’t you increase the size of the KO’s? > > Jay > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches > May 7, 2022 at 6:16 PM > Jason, > > I think I agree with your interpretation of the wiring diagram. My > hesitation is, with a 1-1/4” KO for AC inputs, only choice seems to be a > >24” stub conduit for 2/0 conductores to a fused disconnect. Not a fun pipe > to bend…and extra BOS seems like a less than ideal solution. > > Is this your conclusion as well? > > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 93349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Tue May 10 21:58:28 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 20:58:28 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hail Message-ID: We had a pretty serious weather event and one of my clients had hail broken glass. I advised him to request a replacement of the whole array or, if not, a module by module inspection for I-V curves and hot spots. I am wondering if should reach out to other clients. I don't want to be a storm chaser, but am concerned about micro-fractures. Waddayallthink? Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue May 10 22:17:10 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 21:17:10 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A85B92D-51D7-B24F-9075-D5F015F534CB@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Wed May 11 12:08:41 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 16:08:41 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good Morning; Microcracks are a serious concern. The damage has already occurred, but the results will not show up for a few years. You should contact your module manufacturer and see what their recommendations are. Based on the amount and size of hail, they recommend that the entire array be scrapped. Adios, George George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 6:58 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Kristopher Schmid Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hail We had a pretty serious weather event and one of my clients had hail broken glass. I advised him to request a replacement of the whole array or, if not, a module by module inspection for I-V curves and hot spots. I am wondering if should reach out to other clients. I don't want to be a storm chaser, but am concerned about micro-fractures. Waddayallthink? Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu May 12 07:33:05 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 07:33:05 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Roof Jack Message-ID: Has anyone used this product? I'm looking for feedback on installation ease and your impressions. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From autonomousenergies at gmail.com Thu May 12 07:47:47 2022 From: autonomousenergies at gmail.com (AE Solar) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 07:47:47 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Roof Jack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We just used a few of these recently. Seemed easy enough and plan on using more on an upcoming project. We had easy access to the vent in the attic which probably helped. Only complaint was that I was worried about the vent cap (provided) blowing off and eventually having debris get in there and get stuck in the horizontal run on the roof. I’m not a plumber though…so maybe I’m over thinking it. We put a screw into the cap just in case On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 7:33 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Has anyone used this product? I'm looking for feedback on installation > ease and your impressions. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danny at sesre.com Thu May 12 08:41:24 2022 From: danny at sesre.com (Daniel Young) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 12:41:24 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Roof Jack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just curious if there is a reason you don’t just cut the roof vent off above the flashing? It is allowed by the 2018 IRC and later in section P3103.1.3, solar modules are explicitly called out as a reason to cut the vents. https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2021P1/chapter-31-vents#IRC2021P1_Pt07_Ch31_SecP3103 Not all states adopt this of course. Ohio for example redacted this from the code version they have adopted. So maybe that is the reason. If not, there is your code reference if needed. -- Danny Young Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of AE Solar via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2022 7:48 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: AE Solar Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Roof Jack We just used a few of these recently. Seemed easy enough and plan on using more on an upcoming project. We had easy access to the vent in the attic which probably helped. Only complaint was that I was worried about the vent cap (provided) blowing off and eventually having debris get in there and get stuck in the horizontal run on the roof. I’m not a plumber though…so maybe I’m over thinking it. We put a screw into the cap just in case On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 7:33 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: Has anyone used this product? I'm looking for feedback on installation ease and your impressions. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu May 12 09:37:23 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 09:37:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Roof Jack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do not believe the Florida Building Code adopted this section. Vents must terminate at least 6 inches above the roof. Neither the 2017 code currently in effect nor the 2020 code includes the language of IBC P3103.1.3. Jason Szumlanski On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 8:41 AM Daniel Young via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Just curious if there is a reason you don’t just cut the roof vent off > above the flashing? > > > > It is allowed by the 2018 IRC and later in section P3103.1.3, solar > modules are explicitly called out as a reason to cut the vents. > > > > > https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2021P1/chapter-31-vents#IRC2021P1_Pt07_Ch31_SecP3103 > > > > Not all states adopt this of course. Ohio for example redacted this from > the code version they have adopted. So maybe that is the reason. If not, > there is your code reference if needed. > > > > -- > > > > Danny Young > > Engineering Team Lead > Solar Energy Solutions > > Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | > Indianapolis > > 513-448-5176 (mobile) > > 877-312-7456 (Main Office) > > danny at sesre.com > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *AE Solar via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, May 12, 2022 7:48 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* AE Solar > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Roof Jack > > > > We just used a few of these recently. Seemed easy enough and plan on using > more on an upcoming project. We had easy access to the vent in the attic > which probably helped. Only complaint was that I was worried about the vent > cap (provided) blowing off and eventually having debris get in there and > get stuck in the horizontal run on the roof. I’m not a plumber though…so > maybe I’m over thinking it. We put a screw into the cap just in case > > > > On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 7:33 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Has anyone used this product? I'm looking for feedback on installation > ease and your impressions. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Florida Solar Design Group > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > > Adam Katzman (he/him) > Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator > > www.AutonomousEnergies.com > (518) 567-1468 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu May 12 12:47:03 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 12:47:03 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Step up charge controllers? Message-ID: Looking to charge a 48 V battery bank from a 24 V old PV array. I guess I could use a DC to DC converter, but wondering is there any charge controller out there versatile enough to do it for me?-- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Thu May 12 13:45:23 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 12:45:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Step up charge controllers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22CDE654-2BFA-459D-B2EA-9554E43D1931@mavericksolar.com> See if the genasun gv8 can do what you want. They have several versions that can boost output voltage. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On May 12, 2022, at 11:47 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Looking to charge a 48 V battery bank from a 24 V old PV array. I guess I could use a DC to DC converter, but wondering is there any charge controller out there versatile enough to do it for me?-- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu May 12 14:57:25 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 11:57:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Step up charge controllers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have a pv combiner box, you may be able to restring from there and use a 48 vdc charger Jerry On Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:47 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Looking to charge a 48 V battery bank from a 24 V old PV array. I guess I > could use a DC to DC converter, but wondering is there any charge > controller out there versatile enough to do it for me?-- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu May 12 17:26:41 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 17:26:41 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Step up charge controllers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: it's just another issue I've had lately with older systems. The array is hardwired underneath on a 2+ story building @ 24v. An offgrid system being prepped to go ongrid w/ a new 240vac/48v inverter. 22 year-old Astropower 120w panels. El Sucko. On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 2:57 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > If you have a pv combiner box, you may be able to restring from there and > use a 48 vdc charger > Jerry > > On Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:47 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Looking to charge a 48 V battery bank from a 24 V old PV array. I guess I >> could use a DC to DC converter, but wondering is there any charge >> controller out there versatile enough to do it for me?-- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Thu May 12 20:05:00 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 20:05:00 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Step up charge controllers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just like Jerry mentioned, I’ve gotten out of similar situations by manipulating the multiple strings in the combiner box to conform to string voltage requirements. Instead of having 2 strings of 3 modules, with one well placed burndy connector, you now have a single string of 6. It can become more complicated with odd string numbers and fewer MPPT input options. On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 5:27 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > it's just another issue I've had lately with older systems. The array is > hardwired underneath on a 2+ story building @ 24v. An offgrid system being > prepped to go ongrid w/ a new 240vac/48v inverter. 22 year-old Astropower > 120w panels. El Sucko. > > On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 2:57 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> If you have a pv combiner box, you may be able to restring from there and >> use a 48 vdc charger >> Jerry >> >> On Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:47 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Looking to charge a 48 V battery bank from a 24 V old PV array. I guess >>> I could use a DC to DC converter, but wondering is there any charge >>> controller out there versatile enough to do it for me?-- >>> >>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>> >>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>> >>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>> >>> *www.vermont.solar* >>> >>> >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bjleininger at gmail.com Fri May 13 12:52:53 2022 From: bjleininger at gmail.com (Bruce Leininger) Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 09:52:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Plumbing/Mechanical Code for obstructions above plumbing vents Message-ID: Hello. I'm wondering if there is a code reference for the allowable clearance above a plumbing vent. I've run into several jurisdictions that ask for the clearance to be at least 2x the diameter of the vent pipe. I'm wondering if there are any code references to back this up or any code that specifically prohibits obstructions (like solar panels) above plumbing vents. Thanks all! Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Fri May 13 13:44:04 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 10:44:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Plumbing/Mechanical Code for obstructions above plumbing vents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The 2021 IPC (Section 903) requires vents to terminate at the height specified by the AHJ (in fact the text of the document literally says "not less than [NUMBER] inches (mm) above the roof" which I believe in general is based on 6 inches above anticipated snow cover. The 2021 IPC also specifically addresses things like PV modules over vents - when the vent is covered, like by a PV module, and thus cannot be covered by snow, the vent can terminate 2 inches above a sloped roof. There must be an "open area for the pipe to the outdoors" not less than the I.D. of the pipe, and there must be means to prevent birds/rodents from entering/blocking the pipe. Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member (520) 204-6639 Solar Energy International http://www.solarenergy.org SEI Professional Services http://www.seisolarpros.com On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 9:53 AM Bruce Leininger via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello. I'm wondering if there is a code reference for the allowable > clearance above a plumbing vent. I've run into several jurisdictions that > ask for the clearance to be at least 2x the diameter of the vent pipe. I'm > wondering if there are any code references to back this up or any code that > specifically prohibits obstructions (like solar panels) above plumbing > vents. > > Thanks all! > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rebekah.hren at gmail.com Fri May 13 14:12:46 2022 From: rebekah.hren at gmail.com (Rebekah Hren) Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 11:12:46 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Plumbing/Mechanical Code for obstructions above plumbing vents In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Note that CA adopts UPC not IPC and the last time I checked there was no exception to allow shorter vents under solar panels in the UPC, so it differed from IPC allowance. If this has changed, would be glad to be know about it! Cheers, Rebekah On Fri, May 13, 2022, 10:51 AM Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The 2021 IPC (Section 903) requires vents to terminate at the height > specified by the AHJ (in fact the text of the document literally says "not > less than [NUMBER] inches (mm) above the roof" which I believe in general > is based on 6 inches above anticipated snow cover. > > > The 2021 IPC also specifically addresses things like PV modules over vents > - when the vent is covered, like by a PV module, and thus cannot be > covered by snow, the vent can terminate 2 inches above a sloped roof. There > must be an "open area for the pipe to the outdoors" not less than the I.D. > of the pipe, and there must be means to prevent birds/rodents from > entering/blocking the pipe. > > > Brian Mehalic > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 > National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member > (520) 204-6639 > > Solar Energy International > http://www.solarenergy.org > > SEI Professional Services > http://www.seisolarpros.com > > > > On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 9:53 AM Bruce Leininger via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello. I'm wondering if there is a code reference for the allowable >> clearance above a plumbing vent. I've run into several jurisdictions that >> ask for the clearance to be at least 2x the diameter of the vent pipe. I'm >> wondering if there are any code references to back this up or any code that >> specifically prohibits obstructions (like solar panels) above plumbing >> vents. >> >> Thanks all! >> >> Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri May 13 20:13:42 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 17:13:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark arc fault issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What are you using for the RSD, I have found they all fault out except for fire raptor, dont go with any features, keep it simple Jerry Jerry On Tue, May 10, 2022, 10:17 AM Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > A general question for those who have installed Sol-Ark. > We have a handful of systems that have consistently displayed arc-faults > that, as best as we can determine, are false positives. Is this something > others have experienced? We are trying to determine if this is a general > problem with Sol-Ark or if we are having poor luck. > Our other string inverter systems are not displaying this problem, which > leads us to believe it isn't due to installer error. > > *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> > T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> > *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * > > * * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Mon May 16 11:26:15 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 11:26:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Availability of 320 watt modules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70e69e4a-9409-7bca-3524-96de17d18d80@entech-engineering.com> We had several projects on hold over the winter and now my usual sources of modules do not have any 320watt modules.  Can anyone provide to me a source for this size module.  Basically in some cases we are getting too close to the roof edge with the 360 watt ones, which are available. Thank you for any assistance. Chris --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From autonomousenergies at gmail.com Mon May 23 20:56:19 2022 From: autonomousenergies at gmail.com (AE Solar) Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 20:56:19 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunlight Backup Message-ID: Wrenches, Interested to hear if anyone has been using Sunlight Backup, and if so, how the experience has been (for you as well as for your clients). Thanks Adam Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue May 24 09:24:15 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 24 May 2022 08:24:15 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunlight Backup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01da01d86f71$912d91e0$b388b5a0$@solarcentex.com> We installed one early on. Love the concept – kind of like the SMA “Secure Power Supply” on steroids. But there was some confusion on exactly what I needed, specifically as it relates to the load controllers. The intent of the load controllers was to switch off heavy loads during early morning / late afternoon sunlight so that if “sunlight backup” was needed then, too big a load didn’t trip up the IQ8s. I was told I needed two load controllers but I’m starting to think we just needed one SKU which has two loads controllers in it. Would be nicer if they just gave the option for no load controllers as it was substantial effort to install and another bulky box to hang on wall. Al in all, love the concept but you literally put in every component necessary for battery storage, except for the battery, and in the future we just might tell folks, “just put in the battery” as it’s pretty nominal price after the system controller, load controller(s?), and the essential loads panel. My thoughts, Scot Arey Owner, Solar CenTex From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of AE Solar via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, May 23, 2022 7:56 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: AE Solar Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunlight Backup Wrenches, Interested to hear if anyone has been using Sunlight Backup, and if so, how the experience has been (for you as well as for your clients). Thanks Adam Adam Katzman (he/him) Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator www.AutonomousEnergies.com (518) 567-1468 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Mon May 30 07:17:18 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Mon, 30 May 2022 07:17:18 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Eguana Technologies ESS Message-ID: Hi Wrenches, Has anyone had experience with the Eguana Technologies Evolve LFP battery storage system? I have only every seen their cut sheet, but am aware that they are partnering (being acquired by?) GM. If anyone has first hand experience with Eguana I’d love to hear it! Kindly, Chris -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Wed Jun 1 00:15:42 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 04:15:42 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GJ 250 circuit breaker DC 250 Message-ID: Hello Does anyone have a good used 250A CB for the old DC250 by Xantrex? I believe they are a GJ250? Or does any of the new equipment work. Kind of looks like the Magnum Energy breakers in a MMP. Contact me off list If necessary. Regards, [cid:01CF3FE4-AB99-4225-AEC0-0BE703F2658B] Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8527 bytes Desc: image.jpg URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Wed Jun 1 01:06:24 2022 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Tue, 31 May 2022 22:06:24 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GJ 250 circuit breaker DC 250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6736c8d4-7839-a71b-c655-4efc86748c3e@coveoregon.com> I've seen a couple of those old Trace breakers with damaged set screw connectors. Its been a while back but I replaced one of the old Trace breakers with a Magnum breaker. Easy replacement, but you'll need to put lugs on the cables. That's a good improvement anyway. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 5/31/2022 9:15 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hello > Does anyone have a good used 250A CB for the old DC250 by  Xantrex? I > believe they are a GJ250? > Or does any of the new equipment work. Kind of looks like the Magnum > Energy breakers in a MMP. > Contact me off list If necessary. > Regards, > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8527 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Wed Jun 1 01:10:14 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Tue, 31 May 2022 23:10:14 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GJ 250 circuit breaker DC 250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <027e301e-f1f3-b682-1f90-27755817361a@sindelarsolar.com> I have one, Jeremy. The exact item - Heinemann GJ250 in good condition. You can have the Trace (pre-Xantrex) DC250 standoff bracket too if you want it. I see that it's missing both allen set screws for the 4/0 terminals. You'll have those, right? If not I can include a pair off of one of the two GJ175s that I found in the same box. What's a fair price to both of us for this bit of unobtainium? A new Midnite MNEDC250 is $142 from Backwoods, dealer price $97.76. I think that $100 plus shipping would be the most I'd ask for it, and I'm willing to consider a good argument that it's worth less. When it was new it was $195 from Trace Engineering, as I recall, and those were real dollars. Funny how far it's dropped over the decades. Let me know, mi amigo, Allan On 5/31/2022 10:15 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hello > Does anyone have a good used 250A CB for the old DC250 by  Xantrex? I > believe they are a GJ250? > Or does any of the new equipment work. Kind of looks like the Magnum > Energy breakers in a MMP. > Contact me off list If necessary. > Regards, > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8527 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed Jun 1 11:02:43 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 09:02:43 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GJ 250 circuit breaker DC 250 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002601d875c8$a60eb3c0$f22c1b40$@solarwork.com> Jeremy - I have several let me know if I can help. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2022 10:16 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Jeremy Rodriguez Subject: [RE-wrenches] GJ 250 circuit breaker DC 250 Hello Does anyone have a good used 250A CB for the old DC250 by Xantrex? I believe they are a GJ250? Or does any of the new equipment work. Kind of looks like the Magnum Energy breakers in a MMP. Contact me off list If necessary. Regards, Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8527 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Jun 1 17:30:43 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2022 17:30:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] dual channel charge controllers? Message-ID: All, I have an off-grid customer adding more PV to their 20 yr old array. It would be soooo convenient to find a dual channel controller to keep each array separate, instead of sourcing separate new controllers for each array. . The original controller is not mppt. Arrays are 2kw(old Astropowers on roof) and 5kw( bifacials on ground), respectively. Mixing and matching old and new will not work and is bad practice anyway. Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Jun 2 09:37:42 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:37:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module Message-ID: Hi All, I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what other people have done for these if they have used them or something similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just sit on the rail... I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Jun 2 09:47:32 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:47:32 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That's concerning. We just added these to our product offerings. I reviewed the QCell installation manual for this product and there doesn't seem to be any guidance on the subject. Are the DC leads tight enough when connected to the microinverter that they would not sag enough to touch the roof, or is the tape the only thing preventing the leads from touching the roof? Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 9:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase > microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell > type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. > The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you > remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage > those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the > module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what > other people have done for these if they have used them or something > similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just > sit on the rail... > > I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell > modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking > about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Jun 2 09:54:14 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:54:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just got a quick look at them on the pallet when they arrived on site yesterday. We will be starting this installation next week, so I can report back with more details then. Cheers, Dave On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 9:47 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > That's concerning. We just added these to our product offerings. I > reviewed the QCell installation manual for this product and there doesn't > seem to be any guidance on the subject. > > Are the DC leads tight enough when connected to the microinverter that > they would not sag enough to touch the roof, or is the tape the only thing > preventing the leads from touching the roof? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 9:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase >> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell >> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. >> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you >> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage >> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the >> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what >> other people have done for these if they have used them or something >> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just >> sit on the rail... >> >> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell >> modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking >> about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> [image: Logo] >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Jun 2 10:40:39 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2022 10:40:39 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider Inverter Unbalance Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, A pair of Schneider XW Pro inverters will not share the load. We had used a configuration tool, with the help of Jose at tech support, and temporarily got the pair to balance. We adjusted the output voltages so that the inverters would share the load. Later the inverters started drifting. At present, one will take all the load until it reaches a point around its maximum production limit. Then that inverter will stop production and the other will take over. Is there a defective inverter? Any ideas at all about what might be going on? Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From william at millersolar.com Thu Jun 2 10:21:18 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:21:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <826dabca729f737ac0999a5814c5ab56@mail.gmail.com> Wrenches: Consider the vector forces , even with just the weight of the wire itself. Suspended leads are going to strain the connection points. I suggest this approach is not a good solution. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 6:48 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module That's concerning. We just added these to our product offerings. I reviewed the QCell installation manual for this product and there doesn't seem to be any guidance on the subject. Are the DC leads tight enough when connected to the microinverter that they would not sag enough to touch the roof, or is the tape the only thing preventing the leads from touching the roof? Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 9:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Hi All, I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what other people have done for these if they have used them or something similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just sit on the rail... I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* *p: *he | him | his *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 *w:* www.sungineersolar.com *c:* (607) 288-2898 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Jun 2 10:16:25 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:16:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a108bccf503898c197d33a1868fcebd@mail.gmail.com> Dave: Could you send a photograph, please? Indeed this problem has been addressed before. The only solution presented was to add jumpers to lengthen the leads so they could be clipped to the module frames. This method is sub-optimal due to cost and the adding of potential failure points. I can’t answer your question about the tape being a lifetime solution from an experience or engineering standpoint, but consider this logic: Based on our understanding of the environment behind a solar panel, it seems highly unlikely any kind of tape would last the 25 years required. Think about the consequences if you rely on the tape and it fails: you have to remove the panels, lengthen the leads, wire manage correctly, and reinstall the panels. We tried mounting Enphase inverters to module frames but we aborted and went right back to rail-mounting the inverters. Wire management was much easier for us, especially with Snap-N-Rack rail. Fortunately for me my local Greentech dealer was willing to bring in a container of Mission 350 60 cell modules (MSE350SX5T) and I bought as many pallets as I could fit in my warehouse. These have both leads emanating from the short edge. The leads dress neatly and the panels combine well into the Outback FM100. Plus they are US made and an all-around good panel. I guess my purchase is a small example of market influence. Based on what you report we should boycott this product line. I hope you can return them. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 6:38 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Dave Tedeyan *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module Hi All, I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what other people have done for these if they have used them or something similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just sit on the rail... I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* *p: *he | him | his *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 *w:* www.sungineersolar.com *c:* (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 11:39:34 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 08:39:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Regarding the tape on the back sheet I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be used as a wire management system. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase > microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell > type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. > The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you > remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage > those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the > module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what > other people have done for these if they have used them or something > similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just > sit on the rail... > > I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell > modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking > about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Jun 2 11:44:13 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 11:44:13 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I didn't snap a photo yesterday, but next week I will certainly take some photos, and report back on what we figure out. Definitely sounds like tape is not a permanent solution. Cheers, Dave On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 11:39 AM Jerry Shafer wrote: > Regarding the tape on the back sheet > I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I > have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the > roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be > used as a wire management system. > Jerry > NABCEP PV Inspector > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase >> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell >> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. >> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you >> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage >> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the >> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what >> other people have done for these if they have used them or something >> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just >> sit on the rail... >> >> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell >> modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking >> about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> [image: Logo] >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 12:00:20 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 10:00:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] dual channel charge controllers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <559B9955-5688-46C1-96FA-88368BD344DB@gmail.com> Hi Kirk You didn’t give a lot of info but I don’t think there is a product that meets your requirements. I’m guessing its either 24v or 48v system with with a C40 controller. Personally I’d leave the old system as 20 year old modules are not cost effectively worth messing with. And if you did, you’d get what a couple hundred watts more at max maybe? And then use the CC that best fits your system for the 5kw new. 100 amp, midnite or OB or Schneider My 2 cents Jay > On Jun 1, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > All, > I have an off-grid customer adding more PV to their 20 yr old array. It would be soooo convenient to find a dual channel controller to keep each array separate, instead of sourcing separate new controllers for each array. . The original controller is not mppt. Arrays are 2kw(old Astropowers on roof) and 5kw( bifacials on ground), respectively. Mixing and matching old and new will not work and is bad practice anyway. Thanks. > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 11:51:30 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 09:51:30 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72F231F7-C5C1-4E47-AB78-DB48AEAD317D@gmail.com> These modules are designed for racking w/o MLPE and the rest of the world that doesn’t use MLPE. And code in both 300.11 and 330 ish say that wires need to be supported between 6” and 12” ( I’m not sure which is the correct one to use, I’ve always been told to use 12”) from any box or termination. Which means to me that wire extensions are required. Adapters might be needed anyway If the modules and MLPE don’t have same ends to meet both OEM, UL, and NEC requirements. Just the way it is, but boy did I wish they made those Junction boxes with wire mounting clips on them so we could easily go across the module in the middle and be supported. Jay > On Jun 2, 2022, at 9:39 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Regarding the tape on the back sheet > I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be used as a wire management system. > Jerry > NABCEP PV Inspector > >> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what other people have done for these if they have used them or something similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just sit on the rail... >> >> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> -- >> >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Thu Jun 2 12:08:39 2022 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 12:08:39 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: G'day All I rarely do roofs but I can tell you with my pole, ground or DAT projects it's nearly impossible to cover the modules with a screening product for safety reasons. I refuse to use the mid panel j-box modules. I'm not one for boycotts but just use the old school modules with the j-box mounted on the portrait end. Thus when the modules aren't moving perhaps the manufactures will reach out and ask us installers/engineers as to why. Yeah right, lol. Christopher On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 11:44 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I didn't snap a photo yesterday, but next week I will certainly take some > photos, and report back on what we figure out. Definitely sounds like tape > is not a permanent solution. > Cheers, > Dave > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 11:39 AM Jerry Shafer > wrote: > >> Regarding the tape on the back sheet >> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I >> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the >> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be >> used as a wire management system. >> Jerry >> NABCEP PV Inspector >> >> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase >>> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell >>> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. >>> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you >>> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage >>> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the >>> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what >>> other people have done for these if they have used them or something >>> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just >>> sit on the rail... >>> >>> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut >>> cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically >>> asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> -- >>> [image: Logo] >>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >>> Owner | Sungineer Solar >>> p: he | him | his >>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> w: www.sungineersolar.com >>> c: (607) 288-2898 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Jun 2 13:02:45 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 11:02:45 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find in the NEC :-] Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module Regarding the tape on the back sheet I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be used as a wire management system. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi All, I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what other people have done for these if they have used them or something similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just sit on the rail... I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. Cheers, Dave -- Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rebekah.hren at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 13:22:45 2022 From: rebekah.hren at gmail.com (Rebekah Hren) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 10:22:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> References: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Please note we updated 2020 NEC 690.31(C)(1) to allow 24" between securing/supporting points for PV cable, and removed the problematic reference to 334.30. The change was made because as you all know there is not always a way to secure wires within 12" of a box on the back of a PV module. Of course wires should definitely not be allowed to touch the roof but the hope is that 24" allows for proper wire management but with a little more freedom. 2023 NEC will update to 24" for ≤ 8awg, 54" for >8 awg. If you disagree, please let me know and we can work on a public input for 2026. Best, Rebekah Licensed Electrical Contractor NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ 091209-85 Tel: 336.266.8800 On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 10:02 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find in > the NEC :-] > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module > > > > Regarding the tape on the back sheet > > I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I > have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the > roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be > used as a wire management system. > > Jerry > > NABCEP PV Inspector > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase > microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell > type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. > The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you > remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage > those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the > module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what > other people have done for these if they have used them or something > similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just > sit on the rail... > > > > I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell > modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking > about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. > > > > Cheers, > > Dave > > > > -- > > [image: Logo] > > > *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* > > *p: *he | him | his > *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > *w:* www.sungineersolar.com > *c:* (607) 288-2898 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Jun 2 13:23:20 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 13:23:20 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> References: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Except if it is UL listed and tested as part of the assembly. Haha. I seriously don't that happened, but technically... Bottom line, a manufacturer should supply guidance on this. On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 1:02 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find in > the NEC :-] > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module > > > > Regarding the tape on the back sheet > > I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I > have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the > roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be > used as a wire management system. > > Jerry > > NABCEP PV Inspector > > > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase > microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell > type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. > The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you > remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage > those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the > module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what > other people have done for these if they have used them or something > similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just > sit on the rail... > > > > I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell > modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking > about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. > > > > Cheers, > > Dave > > > > -- > > [image: Logo] > > > *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* > > *p: *he | him | his > *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > *w:* www.sungineersolar.com > *c:* (607) 288-2898 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Jun 2 18:48:10 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2022 18:48:10 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] dual channel charge controllers? In-Reply-To: <559B9955-5688-46C1-96FA-88368BD344DB@gmail.com> References: <559B9955-5688-46C1-96FA-88368BD344DB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, It's a recently converted to 48 from 24v system with BI Hi LFP batteries. And I'd like to see all pv's online, hence my need for an up-to-date controller(s). Old controller (it replaced a Heliotrope PWM unit, man that's taking me back) Is actually an OB MX60, but too old for a hub port. New inverter is an OB Radian 4048. On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 12:06 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Kirk > > You didn’t give a lot of info but I don’t think there is a product that > meets your requirements. > > I’m guessing its either 24v or 48v system with with a C40 controller. > > Personally I’d leave the old system as 20 year old modules are not cost > effectively worth messing with. > And if you did, you’d get what a couple hundred watts more at max maybe? > > And then use the CC that best fits your system for the 5kw new. 100 amp, > midnite or OB or Schneider > > My 2 cents > Jay > > On Jun 1, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > All, > I have an off-grid customer adding more PV to their 20 yr old array. It > would be soooo convenient to find a dual channel controller to keep each > array separate, instead of sourcing separate new controllers for each > array. . The original controller is not mppt. Arrays are 2kw(old > Astropowers on roof) and 5kw( bifacials on ground), respectively. Mixing > and matching old and new will not work and is bad practice anyway. Thanks. > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Jun 3 09:24:29 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 08:24:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration is not on any near-term path to completion Message-ID: <030301d8774d$418a00e0$c49e02a0$@solarcentex.com> Wrenches, This more of a public service announcement. Many of us have installed Energy Hub inverters with Backup Interface Units (BIU). Based on SolarEdge marketing materiel, we have told customers that generator integration was on the way. Well, 4th quarter 2021 came and went and still no path forward. I had asked one of the SolarEdge Directors of Sales if SolarEdge could release a formal new release or updated tech note that installers could pass to customers who want to know, "when can I integrate the generator like you told me we could?" SolarEdge won't make any such announcement and the best I could get form the Director was to perhaps "get it removed from all marketing material." "Generator - we don't have an update. This is significantly harder than it might seem. The last thing we can do is have generators or inverters failing. It is not hard to get the generator to turn on/off. It is everything else that a homeowner is going to expect the systems to do together. The ask has been sent up the chain of command to get it removed from all marketing materials." But that still leaves installers holding the bag, as it was us at kitchen tables saying, "yes - this capability is coming." Without SolarEdge providing a formal release, it has in essence shifted its 'loss of goodwill' to us. I'm pretty fired up about it as it is one of many decisions where SolarEdge shifts costs back to the installers, to their benefit (consider the long queue for tech support and their response, "ok you have to be onsite for us to do something before we RMA it." Which would be fine if we were not forced to wait hour-plus for tech support. Would enjoy hearing what you are telling customers. Scot Arey Solar CenTex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Jun 3 10:04:07 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:04:07 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration is not on any near-term path to completion In-Reply-To: <030301d8774d$418a00e0$c49e02a0$@solarcentex.com> References: <030301d8774d$418a00e0$c49e02a0$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: FWIW, the Enphase generator integration rollout has been less than ideal as well. Their list of approved generators is highly restrictive and has obsolete units listed with no clear process for getting current models approved. How are we supposed to sell these systems without clear and confident answers for prospective clients? "That generator might work" doesn't instill confidence. I can't sell that. I understand there might be some technical reasons that the AC coupling is difficult to implement, but when I hear that, I don't hear "difficult." I hear "potentially problematic." It seems to me like a better approach would be to skip the AC coupling of the IQ microinverters, batteries, and generator and isolate the generator from the PV system. Just provide 200A of pass-through from the generator to the loads and use the generator to charge the batteries (if configured to do so, to the extent that capacity is available after powering loads). This would be similar to a traditional multimode inverter setup. The only benefit I see to AC coupling the generator is reducing fuel burn, but that would likely be very minimal and ambiguous as far as a selling point. The downside of course is the need to add another 200A transfer switch to the Smart Controller. And the Tesla Powerwall method of generator integration isn't exactly elegant. Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but the point is that the generator integration strategies for these new-school battery systems seem to be flawed. Jason Szumlanski On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 9:24 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > > > This more of a public service announcement. Many of us have installed > Energy Hub inverters with Backup Interface Units (BIU). Based on SolarEdge > marketing materiel, we have told customers that generator integration was > on the way. > > > > Well, 4th quarter 2021 came and went and still no path forward. I had > asked one of the SolarEdge Directors of Sales if SolarEdge could release a > formal new release or updated tech note that installers could pass to > customers who want to know, “when can I integrate the generator like you > told me we could?” > > > > SolarEdge won’t make any such announcement and the best I could get form > the Director was to perhaps “get it removed from all marketing material.” > > “Generator – we don’t have an update. This is significantly harder than > it might seem. The last thing we can do is have generators or inverters > failing. It is not hard to get the generator to turn on/off. It is > everything else that a homeowner is going to expect the systems to do > together. The ask has been sent up the chain of command to get it removed > from all marketing materials.” > > > > But that still leaves installers holding the bag, as it was us at kitchen > tables saying, “yes – this capability is coming.” Without SolarEdge > providing a formal release, it has in essence shifted its ‘loss of > goodwill’ to us. > > I’m pretty fired up about it as it is one of many decisions where > SolarEdge shifts costs back to the installers, to their benefit (consider > the long queue for tech support and their response, “ok you have to be > onsite for us to do something before we RMA it.” Which would be fine if we > were not forced to wait hour-plus for tech support. > > > > Would enjoy hearing what you are telling customers. > > > > Scot Arey > > Solar CenTex > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Jun 3 11:12:59 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:12:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration is not on any near-term path to completion In-Reply-To: References: <030301d8774d$418a00e0$c49e02a0$@solarcentex.com>, Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 11:41:26 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 08:41:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration is not on any near-term path to completion In-Reply-To: <030301d8774d$418a00e0$c49e02a0$@solarcentex.com> References: <030301d8774d$418a00e0$c49e02a0$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future, guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that anyone that is selling you on a gen set integration better be able to back it up with facts and if they can't, Well, now the customer will have more belief in you as a result. SE has some grand plans but until they are in place and actually working do yourself a favor and don't sell what is not available yet. You need to remember that you are a contractor or acting in behalf of a contractor and stating something that is not fact for being fact is a lie and that can get the contractor in hot water. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:24 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > > > This more of a public service announcement. Many of us have installed > Energy Hub inverters with Backup Interface Units (BIU). Based on SolarEdge > marketing materiel, we have told customers that generator integration was > on the way. > > > > Well, 4th quarter 2021 came and went and still no path forward. I had > asked one of the SolarEdge Directors of Sales if SolarEdge could release a > formal new release or updated tech note that installers could pass to > customers who want to know, “when can I integrate the generator like you > told me we could?” > > > > SolarEdge won’t make any such announcement and the best I could get form > the Director was to perhaps “get it removed from all marketing material.” > > “Generator – we don’t have an update. This is significantly harder than > it might seem. The last thing we can do is have generators or inverters > failing. It is not hard to get the generator to turn on/off. It is > everything else that a homeowner is going to expect the systems to do > together. The ask has been sent up the chain of command to get it removed > from all marketing materials.” > > > > But that still leaves installers holding the bag, as it was us at kitchen > tables saying, “yes – this capability is coming.” Without SolarEdge > providing a formal release, it has in essence shifted its ‘loss of > goodwill’ to us. > > I’m pretty fired up about it as it is one of many decisions where > SolarEdge shifts costs back to the installers, to their benefit (consider > the long queue for tech support and their response, “ok you have to be > onsite for us to do something before we RMA it.” Which would be fine if we > were not forced to wait hour-plus for tech support. > > > > Would enjoy hearing what you are telling customers. > > > > Scot Arey > > Solar CenTex > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Jun 3 12:30:10 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 11:30:10 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration is not on any near-term path to completion In-Reply-To: References: <030301d8774d$418a00e0$c49e02a0$@solarcentex.com>, Message-ID: <42BBAE81-0609-DC40-BB46-715D312894DC@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Jun 3 13:04:33 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 11:04:33 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] The Questions of product reliability Message-ID: <004301d8776b$ffffcd70$ffff6850$@solarwork.com> Having been in the solar biz since 1988 I can, but will not make a list of products that have come & gone; products that have been Guinea pigged on all of us, promises that have been made & not kept, equipment that has caught fire & individuals that have made unrealistic promises to clients that have really damaged the reputations of the balance of those of us who are trying to build a reliable & reputable reputations in a still growing now teen aged industry. That said I have held back on installing new product introductions & still do on say micro inverters: they get really hot & really cold & the long term reliability of a product that suffers that will suffer in the long run. I do not know of many 5-8 year old micro inverter systems that have not had at least some inverter components replaced. I remember the first micro inverter training class that I attended & the presenter kept using the term mean time to failure, & I questioned this term. The response was that the components used in similar situations should allow for a similar life span. I had this discussion today with a friend who has a unobstructed south facing roof with no shading, with a micro inverter system that is looking at expanding & wanted more micro inverters because he felt the information on what every inverter/module pair was doing was important. I asked him but what fails? The answer was: Not the Module but the inverter that was the weak link. So why use a micro invert in his application? String inverters? Less so but I have seen failure rashes of at least 1 Manu that have surfaced I have had to address multiple similar sized units replacement, at least I was standing on the ground to repair. New products for offgrid & grid tie continue to come online regularly. Today at least UL/ETL type testing awards some level of reliability & takes some of the concern out for us as installers. At this point you are wondering where the heck is I am going with this rant? * How many companies have really followed thru with their promises? * How many companies products really last as promised? * How many companies have available, accurate, & prompt/timely customer tech service? * How many companies get the replacement components out the door promptly? I really try to support manufacturers, wholesalers, & companies that meet these criteria. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 9:41 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration is not on any near-term path to completion When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future, guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that anyone that is selling you on a gen set integration better be able to back it up with facts and if they can't, Well, now the customer will have more belief in you as a result. SE has some grand plans but until they are in place and actually working do yourself a favor and don't sell what is not available yet. You need to remember that you are a contractor or acting in behalf of a contractor and stating something that is not fact for being fact is a lie and that can get the contractor in hot water. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:24 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wrenches, This more of a public service announcement. Many of us have installed Energy Hub inverters with Backup Interface Units (BIU). Based on SolarEdge marketing materiel, we have told customers that generator integration was on the way. Well, 4th quarter 2021 came and went and still no path forward. I had asked one of the SolarEdge Directors of Sales if SolarEdge could release a formal new release or updated tech note that installers could pass to customers who want to know, “when can I integrate the generator like you told me we could?” SolarEdge won’t make any such announcement and the best I could get form the Director was to perhaps “get it removed from all marketing material.” “Generator – we don’t have an update. This is significantly harder than it might seem. The last thing we can do is have generators or inverters failing. It is not hard to get the generator to turn on/off. It is everything else that a homeowner is going to expect the systems to do together. The ask has been sent up the chain of command to get it removed from all marketing materials.” But that still leaves installers holding the bag, as it was us at kitchen tables saying, “yes – this capability is coming.” Without SolarEdge providing a formal release, it has in essence shifted its ‘loss of goodwill’ to us. I’m pretty fired up about it as it is one of many decisions where SolarEdge shifts costs back to the installers, to their benefit (consider the long queue for tech support and their response, “ok you have to be onsite for us to do something before we RMA it.” Which would be fine if we were not forced to wait hour-plus for tech support. Would enjoy hearing what you are telling customers. Scot Arey Solar CenTex _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Jun 3 13:25:54 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 13:25:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] The Questions of product reliability In-Reply-To: <004301d8776b$ffffcd70$ffff6850$@solarwork.com> References: <004301d8776b$ffffcd70$ffff6850$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: My experience with microinverters is much different. Yes, there were lots of Enphase M190 replacements. But of the 40 M215s on my roof, only one has failed in 9 years. Each successive generation has been more reliable. I consider the failure rate at this point totally acceptable, even for the systems I installed 12 plus years ago. And this is in one of the most challenging environments of Southwest Florida. The answer to your four questions in my opinion is: Enphase, Enphase, Enphase, and Enphase. I'll put a little asterisk with "mostly" by each one. The promises have been largely met, with relative minor failure issues and performance that exceeds expectations. The products last, at least long enough so far that it's no worse than nightmares with some other manufacturers' failure rates. Customer service is world class, especially in relative terms. When they had a timeliness issue they recognized it and solved it. While there have been minor delays at times, the ease and low cost of stocking compatible models for advance replacement allows me to provide world class warranty support. I have voiced my complaints about Enphase here numerous times, but on balance I don't see anyone else doing it better. I will admit, the roofs we work on are typically 6 in 12 or less, so micro swaps are an easy job, more often than not with 1 person even. I'm sure that plays a part in the decisions of my northern colleagues with steeper roof pitches to contend with. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Fri, Jun 3, 2022, 1:04 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Having been in the solar biz since 1988 I can, but will not make a list of > products that have come & gone; products that have been Guinea pigged on > all of us, promises that have been made & not kept, equipment that has > caught fire & individuals that have made unrealistic promises to clients > that have really damaged the reputations of the balance of those of us who > are trying to build a reliable & reputable reputations in a still growing > now teen aged industry. > > > > That said I have held back on installing new product introductions & still > do on say micro inverters: they get really hot & really cold & the long > term reliability of a product that suffers that will suffer in the long > run. I do not know of many 5-8 year old micro inverter systems that have > not had at least some inverter components replaced. I remember the first > micro inverter training class that I attended & the presenter kept using > the term mean time to failure, & I questioned this term. The response was > that the components used in similar situations should allow for a similar > life span. I had this discussion today with a friend who has a unobstructed > south facing roof with no shading, with a micro inverter system that is > looking at expanding & wanted more micro inverters because he felt the > information on what every inverter/module pair was doing was important. I > asked him but what fails? The answer was: Not the Module but the inverter > that was the weak link. So why use a micro invert in his application? > > > > String inverters? Less so but I have seen failure rashes of at least 1 > Manu that have surfaced I have had to address multiple similar sized units > replacement, at least I was standing on the ground to repair. > > > > New products for offgrid & grid tie continue to come online regularly. > Today at least UL/ETL type testing awards some level of reliability & takes > some of the concern out for us as installers. > > > > At this point you are wondering where the heck is I am going with this > rant? > > > > - How many companies have really followed thru with their promises? > - How many companies products really last as promised? > - How many companies have available, accurate, & prompt/timely > customer tech service? > - How many companies get the replacement components out the door > promptly? > > > > I really try to support manufacturers, wholesalers, & companies that meet > these criteria. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2022 9:41 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration > is not on any near-term path to completion > > > > When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future, > guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is > mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many > obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well > be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no > good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use > this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that > anyone that is selling you on a gen set integration better be able to back > it up with facts and if they can't, Well, now the customer will have more > belief in you as a result. > > SE has some grand plans but until they are in place and actually working > do yourself a favor and don't sell what is not available yet. You need to > remember that you are a contractor or acting in behalf of a contractor and > stating something that is not fact for being fact is a lie and that can get > the contractor in hot water. > > Jerry > > NABCEP PV Inspector > > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:24 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Wrenches, > > > > This more of a public service announcement. Many of us have installed > Energy Hub inverters with Backup Interface Units (BIU). Based on SolarEdge > marketing materiel, we have told customers that generator integration was > on the way. > > > > Well, 4th quarter 2021 came and went and still no path forward. I had > asked one of the SolarEdge Directors of Sales if SolarEdge could release a > formal new release or updated tech note that installers could pass to > customers who want to know, “when can I integrate the generator like you > told me we could?” > > > > SolarEdge won’t make any such announcement and the best I could get form > the Director was to perhaps “get it removed from all marketing material.” > > “Generator – we don’t have an update. This is significantly harder than > it might seem. The last thing we can do is have generators or inverters > failing. It is not hard to get the generator to turn on/off. It is > everything else that a homeowner is going to expect the systems to do > together. The ask has been sent up the chain of command to get it removed > from all marketing materials.” > > > > But that still leaves installers holding the bag, as it was us at kitchen > tables saying, “yes – this capability is coming.” Without SolarEdge > providing a formal release, it has in essence shifted its ‘loss of > goodwill’ to us. > > I’m pretty fired up about it as it is one of many decisions where > SolarEdge shifts costs back to the installers, to their benefit (consider > the long queue for tech support and their response, “ok you have to be > onsite for us to do something before we RMA it.” Which would be fine if we > were not forced to wait hour-plus for tech support. > > > > Would enjoy hearing what you are telling customers. > > > > Scot Arey > > Solar CenTex > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 13:29:49 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 10:29:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] The Questions of product reliability In-Reply-To: <004301d8776b$ffffcd70$ffff6850$@solarwork.com> References: <004301d8776b$ffffcd70$ffff6850$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Dana and Wrenches I also have been around for quite awhile and Dana is spot on, we have been lied too to so many times, some from distributors, some manufactures. We still are in the wild west of renewables, Chinese module manufacturers with no clear contact information, inverter manufacturers that say they will alway be compatible with the new product lines up till they are not. We need to be the common sense for our customers, explain some design issues that they may want to avoid and give them solutions. Battery technology is what we will all have to understand and see through the mist for the facts not the hype. I will say that we are all out there to do good be good and help our customers make the best decision so when it sounds like an African Prince wants to make you a deal you all know what to do, we are in the same boat with solar separate the good from the bad and keep up the good fight. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 10:04 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Having been in the solar biz since 1988 I can, but will not make a list of > products that have come & gone; products that have been Guinea pigged on > all of us, promises that have been made & not kept, equipment that has > caught fire & individuals that have made unrealistic promises to clients > that have really damaged the reputations of the balance of those of us who > are trying to build a reliable & reputable reputations in a still growing > now teen aged industry. > > > > That said I have held back on installing new product introductions & still > do on say micro inverters: they get really hot & really cold & the long > term reliability of a product that suffers that will suffer in the long > run. I do not know of many 5-8 year old micro inverter systems that have > not had at least some inverter components replaced. I remember the first > micro inverter training class that I attended & the presenter kept using > the term mean time to failure, & I questioned this term. The response was > that the components used in similar situations should allow for a similar > life span. I had this discussion today with a friend who has a unobstructed > south facing roof with no shading, with a micro inverter system that is > looking at expanding & wanted more micro inverters because he felt the > information on what every inverter/module pair was doing was important. I > asked him but what fails? The answer was: Not the Module but the inverter > that was the weak link. So why use a micro invert in his application? > > > > String inverters? Less so but I have seen failure rashes of at least 1 > Manu that have surfaced I have had to address multiple similar sized units > replacement, at least I was standing on the ground to repair. > > > > New products for offgrid & grid tie continue to come online regularly. > Today at least UL/ETL type testing awards some level of reliability & takes > some of the concern out for us as installers. > > > > At this point you are wondering where the heck is I am going with this > rant? > > > > - How many companies have really followed thru with their promises? > - How many companies products really last as promised? > - How many companies have available, accurate, & prompt/timely > customer tech service? > - How many companies get the replacement components out the door > promptly? > > > > I really try to support manufacturers, wholesalers, & companies that meet > these criteria. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2022 9:41 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration > is not on any near-term path to completion > > > > When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future, > guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is > mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many > obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well > be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no > good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use > this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that > anyone that is selling you on a gen set integration better be able to back > it up with facts and if they can't, Well, now the customer will have more > belief in you as a result. > > SE has some grand plans but until they are in place and actually working > do yourself a favor and don't sell what is not available yet. You need to > remember that you are a contractor or acting in behalf of a contractor and > stating something that is not fact for being fact is a lie and that can get > the contractor in hot water. > > Jerry > > NABCEP PV Inspector > > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:24 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Wrenches, > > > > This more of a public service announcement. Many of us have installed > Energy Hub inverters with Backup Interface Units (BIU). Based on SolarEdge > marketing materiel, we have told customers that generator integration was > on the way. > > > > Well, 4th quarter 2021 came and went and still no path forward. I had > asked one of the SolarEdge Directors of Sales if SolarEdge could release a > formal new release or updated tech note that installers could pass to > customers who want to know, “when can I integrate the generator like you > told me we could?” > > > > SolarEdge won’t make any such announcement and the best I could get form > the Director was to perhaps “get it removed from all marketing material.” > > “Generator – we don’t have an update. This is significantly harder than > it might seem. The last thing we can do is have generators or inverters > failing. It is not hard to get the generator to turn on/off. It is > everything else that a homeowner is going to expect the systems to do > together. The ask has been sent up the chain of command to get it removed > from all marketing materials.” > > > > But that still leaves installers holding the bag, as it was us at kitchen > tables saying, “yes – this capability is coming.” Without SolarEdge > providing a formal release, it has in essence shifted its ‘loss of > goodwill’ to us. > > I’m pretty fired up about it as it is one of many decisions where > SolarEdge shifts costs back to the installers, to their benefit (consider > the long queue for tech support and their response, “ok you have to be > onsite for us to do something before we RMA it.” Which would be fine if we > were not forced to wait hour-plus for tech support. > > > > Would enjoy hearing what you are telling customers. > > > > Scot Arey > > Solar CenTex > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From don at energysolarnow.com Sat Jun 4 13:38:22 2022 From: don at energysolarnow.com (don energysolarnow.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2022 17:38:22 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module Message-ID: No you certainly cannot rely on that tape for long. We use stainless wire clips like Heyco SunRunner or RevRunner attached to the module frame. https://www.heyco.com/Solar_Power_Components/?sub=wire-management The QCells AC modules have the microinverters attached so they hang down past the module frame so that the support rails cannot be within 12" of the module edge. Also it makes attaching the Enphase trunk cable difficult. I find this inconvenient and no longer use the AC modules. DonBarch don at energysolarnow.com On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 9:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase > microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell > type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. > The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you > remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage > those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the > module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what > other people have done for these if they have used them or something > similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just > sit on the rail... > > I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell > modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking > about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > ____________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Mon Jun 6 10:41:45 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2022 08:41:45 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shurflo 9300 submersible alternative? Message-ID: <5cbbb3da-6a4f-54cb-b414-2dc75202bd2f@sindelarsolar.com> Wrenches, In years past I used to have more than a dozen clients with Shurflo 9325 ('9300') 12/24V DC submersible well pumps, and kept the parts to rebuild them. It's been at least ten years since I was asked to repair or replace one. In that time the price has risen enough that the retail price is now around $1,000. This morning my neighbor called to tell me that hers had failed and she wants a replacement. Please reply if you have found a less expensive replacement that will fit the same application: 24V array-direct; under 200' TDH with open discharge; around 200 watts of 40-year-old modules. It would pretty much have to be a Chinese copy of a diaphragm pump like the Shurflo. I'm not looking for a better pump solution; I know that there several good ones. My neighbor lives alone on a fixed income, on the homestead she built in the 1970s, and this approach has served her for decades. I'm just looking for a cheaper pump that will replace the Shurflo and has a decent track record for reliability. Thanks, Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Retired Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. Retired Founder, Sindelar Solar *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Wed Jun 8 00:51:25 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 21:51:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shurflo 9300 submersible alternative? In-Reply-To: <5cbbb3da-6a4f-54cb-b414-2dc75202bd2f@sindelarsolar.com> References: <5cbbb3da-6a4f-54cb-b414-2dc75202bd2f@sindelarsolar.com> Message-ID: <899BB56C-DA23-462F-8D9E-4B0C5A8466B7@me.com> Hey Allan, I see nobody knows of anything better/cheaper either. That’s a great little pump for what it is. You’re probably aware but last I knew Shurflo (Pentair I believe) would do a complete rebuild of the pump themselves for somewhere around $400-500. Takes away most of the responsibility and burden of repairing it for the client too. It’s been years since I’ve helped someone send one in but I imagine it’s something they still offer? Repaired and good as new, might fill some of the requirements you’re seeking? Good luck, Nick > On Jun 6, 2022, at 7:41 AM, Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Wrenches, > In years past I used to have more than a dozen clients with Shurflo 9325 ('9300') 12/24V DC submersible well pumps, and kept the parts to rebuild them. It's been at least ten years since I was asked to repair or replace one. In that time the price has risen enough that the retail price is now around $1,000. This morning my neighbor called to tell me that hers had failed and she wants a replacement. > > Please reply if you have found a less expensive replacement that will fit the same application: 24V array-direct; under 200' TDH with open discharge; around 200 watts of 40-year-old modules. It would pretty much have to be a Chinese copy of a diaphragm pump like the Shurflo. > > I'm not looking for a better pump solution; I know that there several good ones. My neighbor lives alone on a fixed income, on the homestead she built in the 1970s, and this approach has served her for decades. I'm just looking for a cheaper pump that will replace the Shurflo and has a decent track record for reliability. > > Thanks, Allan > -- > Allan Sindelar > allan at sindelarsolar.com > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Retired Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. > Retired Founder, Sindelar Solar > 505 780-2738 cell > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at greenwired.com Wed Jun 8 01:03:53 2022 From: andrew at greenwired.com (Andrew Perkins) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2022 22:03:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?=C2=A0_Shurflo_9300_submersible_alternat?= =?utf-8?q?ive=3F?= In-Reply-To: <5cbbb3da-6a4f-54cb-b414-2dc75202bd2f@sindelarsolar.com> References: <5cbbb3da-6a4f-54cb-b414-2dc75202bd2f@sindelarsolar.com> Message-ID: <18141b29aac.12b69d8e2280218.3561437375322994522@greenwired.com> I ran into the same problem and got sick of repairing 9300s only for them to fail right afterwords. So we switched over to the sunpump SDS-T 128 it's metal, quality parts and cheaper at like $750. They can also be rebuilt. I primarily sell these. Then China came along and now you can get a 9300 knockoff on Amazon called an ECO-WORTHY for a grand total of $90 bucks! It has the near same specs as a 9300, probably not able to repair it or maybe, I do not know. Hope that helps!Andrew PerkinsGreenwiredStore Manager/Service Tech​P: 707-923-2001 ext. 1001150 #1 Evergreen RdRedway, CA 95560www.greenwired.com ---- On Mon, 06 Jun 2022 07:41:45 -0700 re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org wrote ---- Wrenches, In years past I used to have more than a dozen clients with Shurflo 9325 ('9300') 12/24V DC submersible well pumps, and kept the parts to rebuild them. It's been at least ten years since I was asked to repair or replace one. In that time the price has risen enough that the retail price is now around $1,000. This morning my neighbor called to tell me that hers had failed and she wants a replacement. Please reply if you have found a less expensive replacement that will fit the same application: 24V array-direct; under 200' TDH with open discharge; around 200 watts of 40-year-old modules. It would pretty much have to be a Chinese copy of a diaphragm pump like the Shurflo. I'm not looking for a better pump solution; I know that there several good ones. My neighbor lives alone on a fixed income, on the homestead she built in the 1970s, and this approach has served her for decades. I'm just looking for a cheaper pump that will replace the Shurflo and has a decent track record for reliability. Thanks, Allan -- @font-face {font-family: "Cambria Math"} @font-face {font-family: Calibri} div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 p.MsoNormal, div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 li.MsoNormal, div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 div.MsoNormal { margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 8pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 107%; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif } div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 a:link, div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 span.x_-1339455445MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline } div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 a:visited, div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 span.x_-1339455445MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline } div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 span.x_-1339455445GramE { } div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 *.x_-1339455445MsoChpDefault { font-family: Calibri, sans-serif } div.zm_6071726129401007120_parse_-3461471377014957556 *.x_-1339455445MsoPapDefault { margin-bottom: 8pt; line-height: 107% }Allan Sindelar allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Retired Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. Retired Founder, Sindelar Solar 505 780-2738 cell   _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1596050015677007_1701277005.png Type: image/png Size: 16298 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed Jun 8 09:00:44 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 07:00:44 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for Offgrid designer/Installer Miranda CA area Message-ID: <001a01d87b37$c44c6bb0$4ce54310$@solarwork.com> Hey All, I am Looking for an local experienced Offgrid designer/Installer Miranda CA area. This is about 1.5 hours south or Eureka, CA. If you are local & interested or have a recommendation, please contact me off list. Thanks Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rekindaguy at yahoo.com Wed Jun 8 10:24:26 2022 From: rekindaguy at yahoo.com (Bob-O) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 07:24:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for Offgrid designer/Installer Miranda CA area In-Reply-To: <001a01d87b37$c44c6bb0$4ce54310$@solarwork.com> References: <001a01d87b37$c44c6bb0$4ce54310$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <73D69C04-9B52-4528-A666-E83201C70983@yahoo.com> Jay Peltz Bob-O On Jun 8, 2022, at 6:00 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:  Hey All, I am Looking for an local experienced Offgrid designer/Installer Miranda CA area. This is about 1.5 hours south or Eureka, CA. If you are local & interested or have a recommendation, please contact me off list. Thanks Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jun 8 16:48:30 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 14:48:30 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Best peal and stick zip tie anchor Message-ID: <6A230A46-F1C9-4D78-A017-A98474B7602B@gmail.com> I’m wondering if anyone has ever used a high quality VHB zip tie attachment base on the center “ junction” box of a mid junction box panel. I’m just looking for options to anchor the wire on that perfect location, which has no attachment. And if you have what are the best parts to get. Wiring for MLPE on Unirac RM10 Thx Jay From jj at aprsworld.com Wed Jun 8 17:24:54 2022 From: jj at aprsworld.com (James Jarvis) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 16:24:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Best peal and stick zip tie anchor In-Reply-To: <6A230A46-F1C9-4D78-A017-A98474B7602B@gmail.com> References: <6A230A46-F1C9-4D78-A017-A98474B7602B@gmail.com> Message-ID: We have been using VHB zip tie bases for at least 10 years. They are marginally better than the foam zip tie bases. Some material they fall right off of and some material they do quite well on. In all cases they do better than the foam tape bases. But that may not be good enough. We consider adhesive zip tie bases a temporary fastening. -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 http://www.aprsworld.com/ On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 4:07 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’m wondering if anyone has ever used a high quality VHB zip tie > attachment base on the center “ junction” box of a mid junction box panel. > > I’m just looking for options to anchor the wire on that perfect location, > which has no attachment. > > And if you have what are the best parts to get. > > Wiring for MLPE on Unirac RM10 > > Thx > > Jay > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at getpimby.com Fri Jun 10 07:08:10 2022 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matt Sherald) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 07:08:10 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch out a replacement plan. I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li electronics. Glad for any suggestions. Thanks in advance! The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V. The following electronics are installed: 2008 OB VFX 2012 OB VFX 2008 OB MX60 2012 MS Classic X2 2008 OB Mate 2010 Trimetric -Matt -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 www.getpimby.blogspot.com www.getpimby.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Fri Jun 10 07:59:51 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 11:59:51 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7113D200-3E0A-4615-A3CD-E7C0C345C5BB@foxfire-energy.com> I was told early MX charge controllers (pre-2011) would lose their mind if the BMS for lithium Batteries shut down under load.. something about they weren’t designed for that kind of surge.. but I think the issue was corrected in like 2012.. db Sent from my iPhone On Jun 10, 2022, at 7:08 AM, Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches wrote:  Hello Wrenches, I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch out a replacement plan. I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li electronics. Glad for any suggestions. Thanks in advance! The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V. The following electronics are installed: 2008 OB VFX 2012 OB VFX 2008 OB MX60 2012 MS Classic X2 2008 OB Mate 2010 Trimetric -Matt -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 www.getpimby.blogspot.com www.getpimby.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 08:17:21 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 08:17:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Matt, I have several systems with the same mix working ok except that the low battery cutoff can’t be set high enough to shut down the inverter before the BMS shuts off the battery. Have had to manually restart the batteries. Problem only occurs if generator doesn’t start as programmed or manually started. I install an iota 48v charger wired into the dc bus to jump start the system in worst case scenario where charge controllers are also shut down and generator can feed in bypass mode to provide a hot outlet for the IOTA. The IOTA charger also serves as a small backup generator input pathway without having to change any charger settings in the inverter. John B On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 7:08 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch > out a replacement plan. I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have > a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone > feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li > electronics. Glad for any suggestions. Thanks in advance! > > The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V. The following electronics are > installed: > 2008 OB VFX > 2012 OB VFX > 2008 OB MX60 > 2012 MS Classic X2 > > 2008 OB Mate > 2010 Trimetric > > -Matt > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 09:27:55 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 07:27:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E411273-45B9-47D3-9A94-CFB281EA5AF4@gmail.com> I agree with John A pretty simple fix is to install a relay on the AC side controlled by the AUX of the inverter. Jay > On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:17 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Matt, I have several systems with the same mix working ok except that the low battery cutoff can’t be set high enough to shut down the inverter before the BMS shuts off the battery. Have had to manually restart the batteries. Problem only occurs if generator doesn’t start as programmed or manually started. I install an iota 48v charger wired into the dc bus to jump start the system in worst case scenario where charge controllers are also shut down and generator can feed in bypass mode to provide a hot outlet for the IOTA. The IOTA charger also serves as a small backup generator input pathway without having to change any charger settings in the inverter. > > John B > >> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 7:08 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch out a replacement plan. I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li electronics. Glad for any suggestions. Thanks in advance! >> >> The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V. The following electronics are installed: >> 2008 OB VFX >> 2012 OB VFX >> 2008 OB MX60 >> 2012 MS Classic X2 >> >> 2008 OB Mate >> 2010 Trimetric >> >> -Matt >> >> -- >> Matt Sherald >> PIMBY Energy, LLC >> 304-704-5943 >> >> www.getpimby.blogspot.com >> www.getpimby.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Fri Jun 10 10:47:40 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 09:47:40 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F978E54-3145-4827-83B7-917BCFFD47E8@mavericksolar.com> For LBCO, you can wire the inverter AUX port to the inverter Enable port (there is a jumper installed by default). Then program AUX for a higher set point. It would be great if battery companies added an AUX port as a warning before shutting down. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:08 AM, Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hello Wrenches, > > I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch out a replacement plan. I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li electronics. Glad for any suggestions. Thanks in advance! > > The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V. The following electronics are installed: > 2008 OB VFX > 2012 OB VFX > 2008 OB MX60 > 2012 MS Classic X2 > > 2008 OB Mate > 2010 Trimetric > > -Matt > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2Q==.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7513 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 11:15:19 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 08:15:19 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Matt Look at the fortress Evault Max 18.5 BMS, display, battery enclosure all together and they work well better than the simplify parts and pieces, Jerry On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 4:08 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch > out a replacement plan. I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have > a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone > feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li > electronics. Glad for any suggestions. Thanks in advance! > > The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V. The following electronics are > installed: > 2008 OB VFX > 2012 OB VFX > 2008 OB MX60 > 2012 MS Classic X2 > > 2008 OB Mate > 2010 Trimetric > > -Matt > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jun 10 12:09:51 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 10:09:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Li Replacements for Lead-acid Bank In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4248EC05-5BAB-4A45-86A2-4D829A7E97B1@gmail.com> I would add that there is a big range in LVD in lithium batteries. Simpliphi has a really high one, others much lower which do work with older equipment and their LBCO settings. Jay > On Jun 10, 2022, at 9:15 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Matt > Look at the fortress Evault Max 18.5 BMS, display, battery enclosure all together and they work well better than the simplify parts and pieces, > Jerry > > >> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 4:08 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> I've got customers with an ailing battery bank and I'm working to sketch out a replacement plan. I'd like to offer them a Li option, but they have a suite of older electronics and I'm writing to ask the list if anyone feels like they've settled on a Li brand that works well with pre-Li electronics. Glad for any suggestions. Thanks in advance! >> >> The bank size is currently 1,110Ah/48V. The following electronics are installed: >> 2008 OB VFX >> 2012 OB VFX >> 2008 OB MX60 >> 2012 MS Classic X2 >> >> 2008 OB Mate >> 2010 Trimetric >> >> -Matt >> >> -- >> Matt Sherald >> PIMBY Energy, LLC >> 304-704-5943 >> >> www.getpimby.blogspot.com >> www.getpimby.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Sat Jun 11 12:33:51 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 11:33:51 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module search Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone happen to have 2 SW325XL solarworld modules collecting dust? Contact me off-list if so. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Tue Jun 14 19:07:58 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 23:07:58 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flex Power ONE FXR expansion Message-ID: Hello Does anyone have a solution for adding a second inverter to an single flex power pre wired panel, to achieve 120/240V ? I know it wouldn’t be on the same panel, but looking for an option here. Regards, Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 19:16:05 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 16:16:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flex Power ONE FXR expansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeremy I have and used a second PS1 and added a transformer to connect the two, worked fine was just parts that all needed to connected Jerry On Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:08 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello > Does anyone have a solution for adding a second inverter to an single flex > power pre wired panel, to achieve 120/240V ? > I know it wouldn’t be on the same panel, but looking for an option here. > > > Regards, > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Tue Jun 14 19:59:35 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:59:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Flex Power ONE FXR expansion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ee8b99b-ce83-e7f4-c214-d0b09cee4f88@sindelarsolar.com> Yes, but keep in mind that the X-240 autotransformer is only needed with the FX/VFX inverters, and shouldn't be used with the FX-R/VFX-R series. I learned this recently on a job where I replaced two older 24V VFX units with new 48V VFX-R units and had to remove the balancing X-240. Allan On 6/14/2022 5:16 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > Jeremy > I have and used a second PS1 and added a transformer to connect the > two, worked fine was just parts that all needed to connected > Jerry > > On Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 4:08 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hello > Does anyone have a solution for adding a second inverter to an > single flex power pre wired panel, to achieve 120/240V ? > I know it wouldn’t be on the same panel, but looking for an option > here. > Regards, > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > _______________________________________________ > -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Thu Jun 16 10:21:51 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 08:21:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV in Madagascar Message-ID: <000001d8818c$6cdfcb00$469f6100$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks: Does anyone know of a PV technician in Madagascar? If so, please contact me off list. I'm trying to help a fella who's moving there; he's also going to have an in-floor radiant heating system. Best, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 17:46:53 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 15:46:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wireless water tank level monitor In-Reply-To: References: <6A230A46-F1C9-4D78-A017-A98474B7602B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone have recommendations for a wireless water tank level monitor Looking for multiple levels, not just empty. It is strictly for monitoring, not control Could be cell service or internet ( which would be connected via wireless radio) and its offgrid Thanks in advance, jay From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Thu Jun 16 18:15:37 2022 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MDElectricSolar) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 15:15:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wireless water tank level monitor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F6E8360-1EBC-4A50-85E7-E29677C365EA@gmail.com> Check these guys out: https://www.scadalink.com/ I did a very similar project a few years ago with their product and it worked flawlessly, off grid as well. Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar, Inc. 707-684-0064 mobile 707-884-1862 office www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar > On Jun 16, 2022, at 2:50 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anyone have recommendations for a wireless water tank level monitor > > Looking for multiple levels, not just empty. > It is strictly for monitoring, not control > > Could be cell service or internet ( which would be connected via wireless radio) and its offgrid > > Thanks in advance, > > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cadams at sunrocksolar.com Fri Jun 17 10:11:58 2022 From: cadams at sunrocksolar.com (Carl Adams) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 10:11:58 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Direct to decking racking attachments Message-ID: I have an upcoming project with a pitched shingle roof. Trusses are 4' O.C. in one area and 8' O.C. in another. We intend to attach to the trusses to the extent possible but will need some direct to decking attachments in order to maintain maximum rail cantilever and 4' O.C. attachment interval. I am looking for suggestions on the best direct to decking attachment hardware for this. With Kind Regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ryan.harkins at energycraft.com Fri Jun 17 10:21:32 2022 From: ryan.harkins at energycraft.com (Ryan Harkins) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 09:21:32 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Direct to decking racking attachments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A2E0582-97BD-4D5E-88A8-DFCBFBFD9704@energycraft.com> Morning Carl, You might be able to upsize your rails and get that allowable span. Or deck attachments I like are the Ecofasten. https://ecofastensolar.com/system-attachment/44-r/ Ryan Harkins Synergy Solar Wisconsin > On Jun 17, 2022, at 9:12 AM, Carl Adams via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > I have an upcoming project with a pitched shingle roof. Trusses are 4' O.C. in one area and 8' O.C. in another. We intend to attach to the trusses to the extent possible but will need some direct to decking attachments in order to maintain maximum rail cantilever and 4' O.C. attachment interval. I am looking for suggestions on the best direct to decking attachment hardware for this. > > With Kind Regards > Carl Adams > SunRock Solar > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Fri Jun 17 10:22:11 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 08:22:11 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Direct to decking racking attachments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carl, We are fans of the Rooftech RT Mini product for applications that don't allow us to employ rafter attachments. We are primarily a SnapNrack installer and the RT Mini base works well with the SNR uppers. We have been using them for perhaps four years, maybe five and have seen no issue in that (albeit somewhat short) period of time. Another option might be looking into Ironridge XR1000 rails which have much higher spans than the normal 48" (up to 12' depending on snow loading). https://www.ironridge.com/component/xr-rails/ Sincerely, Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Fri Jun 17 11:09:26 2022 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 08:09:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Direct to decking racking attachments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We’ve been using these for about three years and I’ve not had a problem yet. https://spiderrax.com/ Andrew Koyaanisqatsi President Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future. 503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > On Jun 17, 2022, at 7:21 AM, Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Carl, > > We are fans of the Rooftech RT Mini product for applications that don't allow us to employ rafter attachments. We are primarily a SnapNrack installer and the RT Mini base works well with the SNR uppers. We have been using them for perhaps four years, maybe five and have seen no issue in that (albeit somewhat short) period of time. > > Another option might be looking into Ironridge XR1000 rails which have much higher spans than the normal 48" (up to 12' depending on snow loading). > > https://www.ironridge.com/component/xr-rails/ > > Sincerely, > Sam Haraldson > Installation & Service Manager > > | o. (406) 551-6135 > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com Fri Jun 17 17:31:35 2022 From: wlbryce at pineridgeproducts.com (William Bryce) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 17:31:35 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wireless water tank level monitor In-Reply-To: References: <6A230A46-F1C9-4D78-A017-A98474B7602B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay Don’t think anyone else chimed in on this so I will. Have use 2 different units. One is all China and works pretty good. But it’s using China hardware and China servers. Search on eBay for Konlen Smart Controller I have one and it’s been great. For a NA option you have Paremtech PTLevel WiFI. This it the best if you just need reliable monitoring. Expensive but I have install 2 of them with No issues. www.paremtech.com Hope this helps On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 5:50 PM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone have recommendations for a wireless water tank level monitor > > Looking for multiple levels, not just empty. > It is strictly for monitoring, not control > > Could be cell service or internet ( which would be connected via wireless > radio) and its offgrid > > Thanks in advance, > > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 18:25:14 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:25:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wireless water tank level monitor In-Reply-To: References: <6A230A46-F1C9-4D78-A017-A98474B7602B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay https://www.fuelminder.biz/waterminder%20collection/gallagher.html these guys have a variety of monitors, I am getting one myself Jerry On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 2:31 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Jay > > Don’t think anyone else chimed in on this so I will. > > Have use 2 different units. > > One is all China and works pretty good. But it’s using China hardware and > China servers. > > Search on eBay for Konlen Smart Controller I have one and it’s been great. > > For a NA option you have Paremtech PTLevel WiFI. This it the best if you > just need reliable monitoring. Expensive but I have install 2 of them with > No issues. > > www.paremtech.com > > Hope this helps > > On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 5:50 PM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Does anyone have recommendations for a wireless water tank level monitor >> >> Looking for multiple levels, not just empty. >> It is strictly for monitoring, not control >> >> Could be cell service or internet ( which would be connected via wireless >> radio) and its offgrid >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Jun 21 14:38:02 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 14:38:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements Message-ID: Has anyone heard of if these defective RESU units might ever be replaced by LG? They don't reply to me anymore. I have -3- RMAs and have been waiting months, as I know others have. And what might Solaredge's strategy be for an LG substitute with the Storedge 7600 inverter? I know they are replacing Storedge with the Energyhub model. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue Jun 21 15:44:22 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2022 14:44:22 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <015201d885a7$4e980d50$ebc827f0$@solarcentex.com> I have gotten some RMA replacement support for LG Resu10 primary units. As many might know, the use of a second battery requires a LG with “secondary” classification (firmware, I assume) and the two are not interchangeable. The secondary units won’t be available until September. Crazy, I know. My own personal secondary unit is bogged down in this. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 1:38 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Kirk Herander Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements Has anyone heard of if these defective RESU units might ever be replaced by LG? They don't reply to me anymore. I have -3- RMAs and have been waiting months, as I know others have. And what might Solaredge's strategy be for an LG substitute with the Storedge 7600 inverter? I know they are replacing Storedge with the Energyhub model. -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From matt at getpimby.com Wed Jun 22 06:53:20 2022 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matthew Sherald) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 06:53:20 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements In-Reply-To: <015201d885a7$4e980d50$ebc827f0$@solarcentex.com> References: <015201d885a7$4e980d50$ebc827f0$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: I have a customer who was told by LG that a replacement is available for her, but the return shipping box for the defective unit is not. LG said they’d ship the new unit if the installer (me) agreed to store the defective unit in the intervening weeks until the return boxes were ready. LGs estimate on box availability was five weeks at earliest - that was about four weeks ago. -Matt Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > I have gotten some RMA replacement support for LG Resu10 primary units. As many might know, the use of a second battery requires a LG with “secondary” classification (firmware, I assume) and the two are not interchangeable. The secondary units won’t be available until September. Crazy, I know. My own personal secondary unit is bogged down in this. > > > > > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 1:38 PM > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Cc: Kirk Herander > Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements > > Has anyone heard of if these defective RESU units might ever be replaced by LG? They don't reply to me anymore. I have -3- RMAs and have been waiting months, as I know others have. > And what might Solaredge's strategy be for an LG substitute with the Storedge 7600 inverter? I know they are replacing Storedge with the Energyhub model. > > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Wed Jun 22 07:45:58 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 06:45:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements In-Reply-To: References: <015201d885a7$4e980d50$ebc827f0$@solarcentex.com>, Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: processed-db1de523-5819-468d-b956-5e7120d3a79f_t5rMPwYO.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 888354 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Jun 22 08:02:25 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 08:02:25 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements In-Reply-To: References: <015201d885a7$4e980d50$ebc827f0$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Thanks. All, I will have to bug them again about my replacements. On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 7:46 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This is the box. Had no idea this might be more scarce than a replacement > battery. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > 254-300-1228 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Matthew Sherald via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2022, 5:53 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Matthew Sherald > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements > > I have a customer who was told by LG that a replacement is available for > her, but the return shipping box for the defective unit is not. LG said > they’d ship the new unit if the installer (me) agreed to store the > defective unit in the intervening weeks until the return boxes were ready. > LGs estimate on box availability was five weeks at earliest - that was > about four weeks ago. > > -Matt > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 21, 2022, at 3:49 PM, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > I have gotten some RMA replacement support for LG Resu10 primary units. As > many might know, the use of a second battery requires a LG with “secondary” > classification (firmware, I assume) and the two are not interchangeable. > The secondary units won’t be available until September. Crazy, I know. My > own personal secondary unit is bogged down in this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 21, 2022 1:38 PM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Kirk Herander > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] LG chem RESU battery replacements > > > > Has anyone heard of if these defective RESU units might ever be replaced > by LG? They don't reply to me anymore. I have -3- RMAs and have been > waiting months, as I know others have. > > And what might Solaredge's strategy be for an LG substitute with the > Storedge 7600 inverter? I know they are replacing Storedge with the > Energyhub model. > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toddcory at finestplanet.com Wed Jun 22 11:32:44 2022 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (toddcory at finestplanet.com) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 08:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [RE-wrenches] DC SHW pumps Message-ID: <1655911964.574616781@webmail.finestplanet.com> I have a customer with a (now obsolete) Hartell DC 1/2" X 1/2" MIP solar hot water circulation pump which is failing. Does anyone happen to have one of these in their inventory? Or can anyone suggest an alternate? I remember March and ElSid used to also make similar DC pumps. It would be best to find another Hartel unit to ease the plumbing, but any DC circulation pump would work. Thanks in advance, Todd Cory Mount Shasta Energy Services Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tom at solar-biz.com Wed Jun 22 12:06:44 2022 From: Tom at solar-biz.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 16:06:44 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] DC SHW pumps In-Reply-To: <1655911964.574616781@webmail.finestplanet.com> References: <1655911964.574616781@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: We have March pumps, the fellow who made Ivan pumps died Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer As the world focuses on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and every day Americans start feeling the impacts of this conflict, there is growing consensus that we can no longer rely on foreign adversaries for our energy needs. If we want to diversify our energy sources and reinforce American energy independence, encouraging solar and storage deployment and investing in domestic manufacturing is the best opportunity we have to double down on clean, and reliable energy. Congress is considering federal budget legislation that invests in clean energy and makes a major dent in President Biden’s decarbonization goals. While this is an important opportunity to create jobs and expand solar accessibility, it’s also an opportunity to eliminate U.S. reliance on energy from countries that do not align with our national interests. [cid:image001.png at 01D8861F.C7E76B10] tom at solar-biz.com MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 International: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 www.thesolarbiz.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Todd Cory via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 9:33 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: toddcory at finestplanet.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] DC SHW pumps I have a customer with a (now obsolete) Hartell DC 1/2" X 1/2" MIP solar hot water circulation pump which is failing. Does anyone happen to have one of these in their inventory? Or can anyone suggest an alternate? I remember March and ElSid used to also make similar DC pumps. It would be best to find another Hartel unit to ease the plumbing, but any DC circulation pump would work. Thanks in advance, Todd Cory Mount Shasta Energy Services Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 14016 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Wed Jun 22 12:22:59 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 12:22:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] DC SHW pumps In-Reply-To: <1655911964.574616781@webmail.finestplanet.com> References: <1655911964.574616781@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: <35c5034c-142c-1e4e-e9fa-3c59690aec95@entech-engineering.com> March pumps, Laing are all good dc pumps.  Chris On 6/22/2022 11:32 AM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I have a customer with a (now obsolete) Hartell DC 1/2" X 1/2" > MIP solar hot water circulation pump which is failing. > > Does anyone happen to have one of these in their inventory? Or can > anyone suggest an alternate? > > I remember March and ElSid used to also make similar DC pumps. It > would be best to find another Hartel unit to ease the plumbing, but > any DC circulation pump would work. > > Thanks in advance, > > Todd Cory > Mount Shasta Energy Services > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Wed Jun 22 20:09:22 2022 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:09:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] DC SHW pumps In-Reply-To: <35c5034c-142c-1e4e-e9fa-3c59690aec95@entech-engineering.com> References: <35c5034c-142c-1e4e-e9fa-3c59690aec95@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <66C25EFA-A63D-4E17-82B7-DAA8C19985AC@yahoo.com> We use the Andrew Koyaanisqatsi President Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future. 503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > On Jun 22, 2022, at 9:22 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > March pumps, Laing are all good dc pumps. Chris > > On 6/22/2022 11:32 AM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote: >> I have a customer with a (now obsolete) Hartell DC 1/2" X 1/2" MIP solar hot water circulation pump which is failing. >> >> Does anyone happen to have one of these in their inventory? Or can anyone suggest an alternate? >> >> I remember March and ElSid used to also make similar DC pumps. It would be best to find another Hartel unit to ease the plumbing, but any DC circulation pump would work. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Todd Cory >> Mount Shasta Energy Services >> >> >> >> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 56664 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sgsrenewables at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 11:48:44 2022 From: sgsrenewables at gmail.com (Luke Christy) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 09:48:44 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for consulting. Message-ID: <9D757B1F-C93D-4845-B17E-935C425AF0E8@gmail.com> Hi Wrenches, Like many of you, I have been in PV industry a long time. I have focused on design-build operations in the off-grid realm. In recent years I have started shifting toward doing more consulting work, and having picked up a few high value clients, I am feeling the need to revisit my insurance and add professional liability insurance in addition to my GL policy. This has proved a little more difficult than expected, as my current underwriter does not offer a professional liability policy for our class of business and, and our local insurance agent is kind of out of their depth with respect to this anyway. I am a solo practitioner and don’t really represent a large account for my insurance company, so there’s little incentive for them to work hard to find me a good solution. I suspect that many Wrenches are or have been in a similar situation, so I’m wondering if anyone has advice/or comments on their experience with these issues. If you’ve had positive experience with a particular underwriter or insurance company for solar consulting work, that would be information I’d love to hear. This is probably a reply-off-list topic. Thanks in advance. Luke Christy Renewable energy consultant. NABCEP Certified Solar Professional™: Solar Gain Services, LLC SGSRenewables at Gmail.com 719.588.3044 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Sat Jun 25 19:33:09 2022 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 23:33:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo Warranty Sanyo Blemish References: <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Folks, I have searched the archives but can't seem to find anything more current on the subject than 2015. Does anyone have info on how to process a warranty claim with Sanyo/Panasonic? We have a client that has a Sanyo panel that looks like... Thoughts?  Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1656199950007blob.jpg Type: image/png Size: 1008485 bytes Desc: not available URL: From palumbo131m at gmail.com Sun Jun 26 02:17:34 2022 From: palumbo131m at gmail.com (palumbo131m at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 07:17:34 +0100 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo Warranty Sanyo Blemish In-Reply-To: <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Andrew, We had a couple of Sanyo’s we tried to get warranty replacement on about 12 years ago with no success and this was on modules that were just a few years old. We spent too many hours trying to navigate the endless emails, phone calls and paperwork and ended up giving up. It seemed like the distributor and manufacture had a “rope-a-dope” strategy and it worked with us. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 26, 2022, at 12:33 AM, Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi Folks, > > I have searched the archives but can't seem to find anything more current on the subject than 2015. > > Does anyone have info on how to process a warranty claim with Sanyo/Panasonic? > > We have a client that has a Sanyo panel that looks like... > > > > Thoughts? > > > Andrew Koyaanisqatsi > President > Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. > The BRIGHT CHOICE > Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors > move towards an environmentally sustainable future. > 503-238-4502 > www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1656199950007blob.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34942 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1656199950007blob.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34942 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlee at roamsolar.com Sun Jun 26 03:00:55 2022 From: dlee at roamsolar.com (Dave Lee) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 00:00:55 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo Warranty Sanyo Blemish In-Reply-To: <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Andrew, I have worked on at least 2-3 issues like this. Key contact is Trevor Tufts who is with Panasonic ...... trevor.tufts at us.panasonic.com. I don't have a phone number for him. You will need to run an IV curve test on every panel that is under warranty and you have to submit the results. Panels can exhibit different IV Curve results when dry vs wet testing. Good results on all claims with the most recent in the last month down in Monterey. Dave On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 4:33 PM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I have searched the archives but can't seem to find anything more current > on the subject than 2015. > > Does anyone have info on how to process a warranty claim with > Sanyo/Panasonic? > > We have a client that has a Sanyo panel that looks like... > > [image: Inline image] > > Thoughts? > > > *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* > *President* > > > *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* > *Since 1987,* > * helping you and your Portland neighborsmove** towards an > environmentally sustainable future.* > > *503-238-4502www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1656199950007blob.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1008485 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Mon Jun 27 08:15:21 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 08:15:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for consulting. In-Reply-To: <9D757B1F-C93D-4845-B17E-935C425AF0E8@gmail.com> References: <9D757B1F-C93D-4845-B17E-935C425AF0E8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Try Brown and Brown. They are who we use.  Chris On 6/24/2022 11:48 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Wrenches, > Like many of you, I have been in PV industry a long time. I have > focused on design-build operations in the off-grid realm. In recent > years I have started shifting toward doing more consulting work, and > having picked up a few high value clients, I am feeling the need to > revisit my insurance and add professional liability insurance in > addition to my GL policy. This has proved a little more difficult than > expected, as my current underwriter does not offer a professional > liability policy for our class of business and, and our local > insurance agent is kind of out of their depth with respect to this > anyway. I am a solo practitioner and don’t really represent a large > account for my insurance company, so there’s little incentive for them > to work hard to find me a good solution. > > I suspect that many Wrenches are or have been in a similar situation, > so I’m wondering if anyone has advice/or comments on their experience > with these issues.  If you’ve had positive experience with a > particular underwriter or insurance company for solar consulting work, > that would be information I’d love to hear. > > This is probably a reply-off-list topic. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Luke Christy > > Renewable energy consultant. > > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional™: > Solar Gain Services, LLC > SGSRenewables at Gmail.com > 719.588.3044 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lee.bristol at globalsolace.org Mon Jun 27 20:36:34 2022 From: lee.bristol at globalsolace.org (Lee Bristol) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 20:36:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for consulting. In-Reply-To: References: <9D757B1F-C93D-4845-B17E-935C425AF0E8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Assured Partners Poulsbo, WA (800) 597-2612 Cassidy Arellano, (360) 626-2966 Professional Liability Insurance Lee Bristol Executive Director NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Global Solace Inc 20530 Beallsville Road Beallsville, MD 20839 (240) 479-1510 (c) lee.bristol at globalsolace.org www.globalsolace.org On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 8:15 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Try Brown and Brown. They are who we use. Chris > On 6/24/2022 11:48 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Wrenches, > Like many of you, I have been in PV industry a long time. I have focused > on design-build operations in the off-grid realm. In recent years I have > started shifting toward doing more consulting work, and having picked up a > few high value clients, I am feeling the need to revisit my insurance and > add professional liability insurance in addition to my GL policy. This has > proved a little more difficult than expected, as my current underwriter > does not offer a professional liability policy for our class of business > and, and our local insurance agent is kind of out of their depth with > respect to this anyway. I am a solo practitioner and don’t really represent > a large account for my insurance company, so there’s little incentive for > them to work hard to find me a good solution. > > I suspect that many Wrenches are or have been in a similar situation, so > I’m wondering if anyone has advice/or comments on their experience with > these issues. If you’ve had positive experience with a particular > underwriter or insurance company for solar consulting work, that would be > information I’d love to hear. > > This is probably a reply-off-list topic. > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Luke Christy > > Renewable energy consultant. > > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional™: > Solar Gain Services, LLC > SGSRenewables at Gmail.com > 719.588.3044 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 18:03:48 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:03:48 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot water heater Message-ID: Awhile back there was a thread about a micro inverter that could be used to connect directly to an electric hot water heater. Can someone steer me to that thread or the inverter manufacturer? John Blittersdorf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com Tue Jun 28 18:12:34 2022 From: jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com (Jeremy Coxon) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:12:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine Message-ID: <904C8BA9-951E-431B-8587-16B27B33B7F8@sunwindpowerinc.com> We have a customer who has a legacy off grid system which includes a SWWP whisper 200. They now have utility power to the property and so they want to go straight grid tie and ditch the batteries and off grid system (even though it’s all in perfect working order). Anyone know of an inverter that we could use to accomplish this goal? Jeremy Coxon NABCEP Certified MWBE Sent from my iPhone From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Tue Jun 28 19:22:52 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:22:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot water heater Message-ID: <7e1ssqiirr9a0k27c9gpn5dt.1656458415859@email.lge.com> Hi John, Cybo inverters.You hit a pet peeve in your post and I must comment as we really need to be leaders. We have water heaters and hot water tanks... Why would we have a 'hot water heater'?-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenchesDate: Tue, Jun 28, 2022 6:04 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: John Blittersdorf;Subject:[RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot water heaterAwhile back there was a thread about a micro inverter that could be used to connect directly to an electric hot water heater.  Can someone steer me to that thread or the inverter manufacturer?John Blittersdorf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 19:26:40 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:26:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine In-Reply-To: <904C8BA9-951E-431B-8587-16B27B33B7F8@sunwindpowerinc.com> References: <904C8BA9-951E-431B-8587-16B27B33B7F8@sunwindpowerinc.com> Message-ID: <90CCAD13-D817-4D55-B828-0AA0BCB1C332@gmail.com> Hi Jeremy, Sol ark and Outback skybox. Might be others. It might be tricky dealing with the wind machine w/o batteries. Jay > On Jun 28, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches wrote: > > We have a customer who has a legacy off grid system which includes a SWWP whisper 200. They now have utility power to the property and so they want to go straight grid tie and ditch the batteries and off grid system (even though it’s all in perfect working order). Anyone know of an inverter that we could use to accomplish this goal? > > Jeremy Coxon NABCEP > Certified MWBE > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 10:39:03 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 08:39:03 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Small Industrial Propane Generators Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Does anyone have a recommendation for a small, industrial propane generator? Something rated for prime power with reliable starting. I need it in the 12-20kW range. Hard to find them this small. Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 10:54:18 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:54:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Small Industrial Propane Generators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrico International Eugene,Or Expensive but top tier On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 7:39 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > Does anyone have a recommendation for a small, industrial propane > generator? Something rated for prime power with reliable starting. I need > it in the 12-20kW range. Hard to find them this small. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 15:44:42 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 13:44:42 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Small Industrial Propane Generators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03CB1E4F-47FC-449F-BACF-03C1E13E6F3E@gmail.com> Most of the other brands: Cummins/onan Kohler Seem to now start at 24kw for liquid cooled/1800 RPM, but really nice units, many options: To me the biggest reason to chose one is which has the closest/best service/warranty company. Jay > On Jun 29, 2022, at 8:54 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Wrico International Eugene,Or > Expensive but top tier > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 7:39 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > Does anyone have a recommendation for a small, industrial propane generator? Something rated for prime power with reliable starting. I need it in the 12-20kW range. Hard to find them this small. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > 530-921-0560 > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Jun 29 16:07:27 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 16:07:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I realize it has been a while, but I've been meaning to send out an update. With these modules in particular, one lead was long enough to get a clip on the side frame. We found that if we put the upper rail as low as possible allowed by the module (about 19.75" from the top) then it roughly split the distance from the junction box to the microinverter. It seems that even over time, there is not enough slack with the rail there for the wire to ever reach the roof. It is possible that it will eventually sag such that the wire is visible under the rails, but at least for now, you cannot see any wires under the array. Cheers, Dave On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 1:23 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Except if it is UL listed and tested as part of the assembly. Haha. I > seriously don't that happened, but technically... > > Bottom line, a manufacturer should supply guidance on this. > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 1:02 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find in >> the NEC :-] >> >> >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module >> >> >> >> Regarding the tape on the back sheet >> >> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I >> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the >> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be >> used as a wire management system. >> >> Jerry >> >> NABCEP PV Inspector >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase >> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell >> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. >> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you >> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage >> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the >> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what >> other people have done for these if they have used them or something >> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just >> sit on the rail... >> >> >> >> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut cell >> modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically asking >> about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> -- >> >> [image: Logo] >> >> >> *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* >> >> *p: *he | him | his >> *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> *w:* www.sungineersolar.com >> *c:* (607) 288-2898 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20220606_130543248.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 213268 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20220606_130923990.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 225994 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20220607_134458621.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 352523 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20220606_130909900.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 245020 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tump at swnl.net Wed Jun 29 20:37:57 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 20:37:57 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Small Industrial Propane Generators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wildcat Generators in Kansas, you can call Kandi, CCed here. Recently they said that the smaller air-cooled gen motors are impossible to get. But things may have changed. Kandi Roeser Director of Customer Service (480) 677-0737 Kandi.Roeser at wildcatpowergen.com > On Jun 29, 2022, at 10:39 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > Does anyone have a recommendation for a small, industrial propane generator? Something rated for prime power with reliable starting. I need it in the 12-20kW range. Hard to find them this small. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > "We must all learn to live together as brothers, or we all will perish as fools." MLK > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Wed Jun 29 23:02:15 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 17:02:15 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Power One/ABB micros Message-ID: Aloha all, I'm on the hunt for either Power One or ABB (which purchased Power One) 300HV (300-watt high voltage) micro inverters. Please contact me off-list if you have any or can provide any leads. Mahalo, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Jun 30 14:01:53 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 12:01:53 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Message-ID: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled - 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 18:59:58 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 15:59:58 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Dave Nothing should be attached to the back sheet as it can be an issue down the road, I might want to look at looping the cords to let them statically remain in location without the tape, the loop will prevent drooping and if properly located rest on the rail. Jerry On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 1:07 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all, > I realize it has been a while, but I've been meaning to send out an > update. With these modules in particular, one lead was long enough to get a > clip on the side frame. We found that if we put the upper rail as low as > possible allowed by the module (about 19.75" from the top) then it roughly > split the distance from the junction box to the microinverter. It seems > that even over time, there is not enough slack with the rail there for the > wire to ever reach the roof. It is possible that it will eventually sag > such that the wire is visible under the rails, but at least for now, you > cannot see any wires under the array. > > Cheers, > Dave > > On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 1:23 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Except if it is UL listed and tested as part of the assembly. Haha. I >> seriously don't that happened, but technically... >> >> Bottom line, a manufacturer should supply guidance on this. >> >> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 1:02 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find in >>> the NEC :-] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >>> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module >>> >>> >>> >>> Regarding the tape on the back sheet >>> >>> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I >>> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the >>> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be >>> used as a wire management system. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> NABCEP PV Inspector >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> >>> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase >>> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell >>> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. >>> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you >>> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage >>> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the >>> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what >>> other people have done for these if they have used them or something >>> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just >>> sit on the rail... >>> >>> >>> >>> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut >>> cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically >>> asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> [image: Logo] >>> >>> >>> *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* >>> >>> *p: *he | him | his >>> *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> *w:* www.sungineersolar.com >>> *c:* (607) 288-2898 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Thu Jun 30 20:12:17 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 19:12:17 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] HT I-V curve tracer Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone use an HT curve tracer? If so, I could use some help. The manual leaves much to be desired. Contact me off list, please and thanks! Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Jun 30 21:33:11 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 21:33:11 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Jerry, Sorry for any confusion there. With that first photo with the leads taped, I was showing how the module came from the factory. The other two photos of the backsheet show how far you can pull the leads when the tape is off. With the setup I explained above, that was with the tape removed from the modules. Cheers, Dave On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:00 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Dave > Nothing should be attached to the back sheet as it can be an issue down > the road, I might want to look at looping the cords to let them > statically remain in location without the tape, the loop will prevent > drooping and if properly located rest on the rail. > Jerry > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 1:07 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I realize it has been a while, but I've been meaning to send out an >> update. With these modules in particular, one lead was long enough to get a >> clip on the side frame. We found that if we put the upper rail as low as >> possible allowed by the module (about 19.75" from the top) then it roughly >> split the distance from the junction box to the microinverter. It seems >> that even over time, there is not enough slack with the rail there for the >> wire to ever reach the roof. It is possible that it will eventually sag >> such that the wire is visible under the rails, but at least for now, you >> cannot see any wires under the array. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 1:23 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Except if it is UL listed and tested as part of the assembly. Haha. I >>> seriously don't that happened, but technically... >>> >>> Bottom line, a manufacturer should supply guidance on this. >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 1:02 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find in >>>> the NEC :-] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >>>> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM >>>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>>> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer >>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regarding the tape on the back sheet >>>> >>>> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I >>>> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the >>>> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be >>>> used as a wire management system. >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> NABCEP PV Inspector >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase >>>> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell >>>> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. >>>> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you >>>> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage >>>> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the >>>> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what >>>> other people have done for these if they have used them or something >>>> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just >>>> sit on the rail... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut >>>> cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically >>>> asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> [image: Logo] >>>> >>>> >>>> *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* >>>> >>>> *p: *he | him | his >>>> *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>>> *w:* www.sungineersolar.com >>>> *c:* (607) 288-2898 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> [image: Logo] >> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >> Owner | Sungineer Solar >> p: he | him | his >> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >> w: www.sungineersolar.com >> c: (607) 288-2898 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 21:48:37 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 21:48:37 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot water heater In-Reply-To: <7e1ssqiirr9a0k27c9gpn5dt.1656458415859@email.lge.com> References: <7e1ssqiirr9a0k27c9gpn5dt.1656458415859@email.lge.com> Message-ID: Glen, You are correct. It is an electric tank water heater according to Home Depot. Thanks for Cybo. John On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 7:23 PM Glenn Burt wrote: > Hi John, > > Cybo inverters. > > You hit a pet peeve in your post and I must comment as we really need to > be leaders. We have water heaters and hot water tanks... Why would we have > a 'hot water heater'? > > -Glenn > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches > *Date: *Tue, Jun 28, 2022 6:04 PM > *To: *RE-wrenches; > *Cc: *John Blittersdorf; > *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot > water heater > > Awhile back there was a thread about a micro inverter that could be used > to connect directly to an electric hot water heater. Can someone steer me > to that thread or the inverter manufacturer? > > John Blittersdorf > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 12:49:45 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:49:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d876a2$9547a670$bfd6f350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Dave just loop the wires and leave them suspended and if they are over the rail even better you will never see them Jerry On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 6:33 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jerry, > Sorry for any confusion there. With that first photo with the leads taped, > I was showing how the module came from the factory. The other two photos of > the backsheet show how far you can pull the leads when the tape is off. > With the setup I explained above, that was with the tape removed from the > modules. > Cheers, > Dave > > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022, 7:00 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> >> Dave >> Nothing should be attached to the back sheet as it can be an issue down >> the road, I might want to look at looping the cords to let them >> statically remain in location without the tape, the loop will prevent >> drooping and if properly located rest on the rail. >> Jerry >> >> On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 1:07 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I realize it has been a while, but I've been meaning to send out an >>> update. With these modules in particular, one lead was long enough to get a >>> clip on the side frame. We found that if we put the upper rail as low as >>> possible allowed by the module (about 19.75" from the top) then it roughly >>> split the distance from the junction box to the microinverter. It seems >>> that even over time, there is not enough slack with the rail there for the >>> wire to ever reach the roof. It is possible that it will eventually sag >>> such that the wire is visible under the rails, but at least for now, you >>> cannot see any wires under the array. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 1:23 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Except if it is UL listed and tested as part of the assembly. Haha. I >>>> seriously don't that happened, but technically... >>>> >>>> Bottom line, a manufacturer should supply guidance on this. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, 1:02 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Tape is not approved as a wire retaining device as far as I can find >>>>> in the NEC :-] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >>>>> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:40 AM >>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>>>> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regarding the tape on the back sheet >>>>> >>>>> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I >>>>> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the >>>>> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be >>>>> used as a wire management system. >>>>> >>>>> Jerry >>>>> >>>>> NABCEP PV Inspector >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase >>>>> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell >>>>> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module. >>>>> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you >>>>> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage >>>>> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the >>>>> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what >>>>> other people have done for these if they have used them or something >>>>> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just >>>>> sit on the rail... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut >>>>> cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically >>>>> asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> [image: Logo] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solar* >>>>> >>>>> *p: *he | him | his >>>>> *a: *1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>>>> *w:* www.sungineersolar.com >>>>> *c:* (607) 288-2898 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> [image: Logo] >>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E. >>> Owner | Sungineer Solar >>> p: he | him | his >>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> w: www.sungineersolar.com >>> c: (607) 288-2898 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Fri Jul 1 14:08:50 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 14:08:50 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase production CT with Sunpower PVS5 Message-ID: Hi All, I am expanding on an existing Sunpower system, with non Sunpower equipment (SMA inverters). In order to get their consumption monitoring to work properly, I would like to install a production CT for the PVS5. Does anyone know whether you can use an Enphase production CT with a Sunpower PVS5? The Enphase CT is rated at 0.5V at 200A (at least that is what it says on the CT label). I would prefer to just get a Sunpower production CT, but I am not sure that I can being that we are no longer a Sunpower dealer. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com Fri Jul 1 14:31:36 2022 From: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com (Nick Soleil) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 18:31:36 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase production CT with Sunpower PVS5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6460143E-39B9-45DD-AB5A-C3D362882BFF@enphaseenergy.com> Hi Dave, I don’t know the specifications of the PVS6 production CT, but it is highly unlikely that it is a mA CT with 2000:1 winding ratio like the Enphase production CT. You should try to source a Sunpower CT. Nick Soleil Sr Product Manager Enphase Energy 707-321-2937 On Jul 1, 2022, at 11:09 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote:  EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Hi All, I am expanding on an existing Sunpower system, with non Sunpower equipment (SMA inverters). In order to get their consumption monitoring to work properly, I would like to install a production CT for the PVS5. Does anyone know whether you can use an Enphase production CT with a Sunpower PVS5? The Enphase CT is rated at 0.5V at 200A (at least that is what it says on the CT label). I would prefer to just get a Sunpower production CT, but I am not sure that I can being that we are no longer a Sunpower dealer. Cheers, Dave -- [Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!xfbmispbipwwbGA5cqaov_o3T6ufp_iOkF9tu8njTOReQkoULweV4n9N-D-suQAttzYLBrNXqbHIWsSnT-CxZ72uiHPK_vFxLA$ List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!xfbmispbipwwbGA5cqaov_o3T6ufp_iOkF9tu8njTOReQkoULweV4n9N-D-suQAttzYLBrNXqbHIWsSnT-CxZ72uiHNyGCVJwQ$ There are two list archives for searching. 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URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sat Jul 2 12:11:02 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 10:11:02 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <009b01d88e2e$5412fd00$fc38f700$@solarwork.com> I heard back Friday from the generator manufacturers executive board meeting Friday morning there is their response: ________ Hi Dana, I spoke with the executives this morning and we're very excited to hear what the demand is for this genset is. If it makes sense, we're all in. ------------ Please let me know if your interest in a 13KW - 1800 RPM genset - water cooled is of interest for you & your off grid clients. I see this as a big opportunity for replacing the oversized gensets that we have been forced to use for a long time now. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 12:02 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: Dana Orzel Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled - 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 13:58:06 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 10:58:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <009b01d88e2e$5412fd00$fc38f700$@solarwork.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <009b01d88e2e$5412fd00$fc38f700$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Very Cool. We install on the average about two dozen <15kw generators annually. Mostly diesel and a few Honda propane. The diesels are a hard sell for some reason. Would love to see the return of the quality smaller Kohler/Onans. On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:11 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I heard back Friday from the generator manufacturers executive board > meeting Friday morning there is their response: > > ________ > > Hi Dana, > > > > I spoke with the executives this morning and we’re very excited to hear > what the demand is for this genset is. If it makes sense, we’re all in. > > ------------ > > Please let me know if your interest in a 13KW – 1800 RPM genset – water > cooled is of interest for you & your off grid clients. I see this as a big > opportunity for replacing the oversized gensets that we have been forced to > use for a long time now. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2022 12:02 PM > *To:* 'RE-wrenches' > *Cc:* Dana Orzel > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > > > Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, > > > > I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for > the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I > explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler > dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. > > > > If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - > water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how > many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? > > > > *If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in > per year? *I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this > sized unit. > > > > If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a > possibility. > > > > Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us > know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & > available gensets for our off grid client systems. > > I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do > not want your name passed along let me know for now. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 **dana at solarwork.com* > > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sat Jul 2 16:23:59 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:23:59 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rolling Coal Message-ID: <00d601d88e51$aa4a2270$fede6750$@solarwork.com> Same here with the diesels & always have been. I have only had 3 diesels I have sold in 34 years of generator installations. Better unit, longer life, less fuel usage, higher efficiency, potential start issues in cold weather, & a bad reputation with diesel engines in general, before the addition of DEF. Not that a diesel genny would have DEF as an option. Look at the Rolling Coal crowd! Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 11:58 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Michael Morningstar Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Very Cool. We install on the average about two dozen <15kw generators annually. Mostly diesel and a few Honda propane. The diesels are a hard sell for some reason. Would love to see the return of the quality smaller Kohler/Onans. On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:11 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: I heard back Friday from the generator manufacturers executive board meeting Friday morning there is their response: ________ Hi Dana, I spoke with the executives this morning and we’re very excited to hear what the demand is for this genset is. If it makes sense, we’re all in. ------------ Please let me know if your interest in a 13KW – 1800 RPM genset – water cooled is of interest for you & your off grid clients. I see this as a big opportunity for replacing the oversized gensets that we have been forced to use for a long time now. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 12:02 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Dana Orzel > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Sat Jul 2 17:05:30 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 14:05:30 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <009b01d88e2e$5412fd00$fc38f700$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <7b867f0e-202a-ae4e-d430-c4f2a533c4d2@psln.com> As an aside, maybe I've been living under a rock but I have not heard of 1800 RPM gensets running on propane, but exclusive to diesel.  It sounds like that's a thing.  I'm small time off-grid here but I could easily see 3-4 units/year.  I'm assuming if this come to fruition, the manufacturer would be thinking off-grid durability, not home standby.  I like the water-cooled aspect of this proposal for less noise.             I would also hope for a manufacturer that has good on the ground coverage for service, warranty, maintenance. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 7/2/2022 10:58 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > Very Cool. We install on the average about two dozen <15kw generators > annually. Mostly diesel and a few Honda propane. The diesels are a > hard sell for some reason. Would love to see the return of the quality > smaller Kohler/Onans. > > On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:11 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > I heard back Friday from the generator manufacturers executive > board meeting Friday morning there is their response: > > ________ > > Hi Dana, > > I spoke with the executives this morning and we’re very excited to > hear what the demand is for this genset is. If it makes sense, > we’re all in. > > ------------ > > Please let me know if your interest in a 13KW – 1800 RPM genset – > water cooled is of interest for you & your off grid clients. I see > this as a big opportunity for replacing the oversized gensets that > we have been forced to use  for a long time now. > > Dana Orzel -  E - dana at solarwork.com -  C - 208.721.7003 // > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, June 30, 2022 12:02 PM > *To:* 'RE-wrenches' > *Cc:* Dana Orzel > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS > INQUIRY > > Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, > > I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name > withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with > UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in > the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime > power in this size range. > > If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 > RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac > genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with > oversized gensets? > > /_If this was available how many units would each of you be > interested in per year? _/I am not asking for a commitment just a > market survey for this sized unit. > > If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might > be a possibility. > > Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael > let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more > appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client > systems. > > I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If > you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. > > Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 **dana at solarwork.com* ** > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > > _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _ > > ** > > *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 19:42:12 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 17:42:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW+ Message-ID: <32899933-F0CA-4F8D-B5A2-8CD04C624C9C@gmail.com> Hi all A buddy called me with the following problem. He was given a 5548 XW manufactured in 2019 that doesn’t work. As best as we can figure it never worked. Still trying to get that info. In trying to diagnose, he noticed the transformer is rated at 0-28v and 0-120vac per leg out. I have photos. When he feeds the transformer with 48vac it produces 480vac out. 240vac per leg. But it’s a 48v unit? Anyone have a thought on this? Is it possible that the wrong transformer got put in it? I know they used to make 24v units? Thanks Jay From maverick at mavericksolar.com Sat Jul 2 21:52:42 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 20:52:42 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider XW+ In-Reply-To: <32899933-F0CA-4F8D-B5A2-8CD04C624C9C@gmail.com> References: <32899933-F0CA-4F8D-B5A2-8CD04C624C9C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like he has a 24V inverter. What does the serial number tag on the top of the unit say about that verses the silkscreen part numbers on the relay board and computer board(s) under the hood? Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jul 2, 2022, at 6:42 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all > > A buddy called me with the following problem. > > He was given a 5548 XW manufactured in 2019 that doesn’t work. As best as we can figure it never worked. Still trying to get that info. > In trying to diagnose, he noticed the transformer is rated at 0-28v and 0-120vac per leg out. I have photos. > > When he feeds the transformer with 48vac it produces 480vac out. 240vac per leg. > > But it’s a 48v unit? > > Anyone have a thought on this? Is it possible that the wrong transformer got put in it? > I know they used to make 24v units? > > Thanks > > Jay > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 21:48:31 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 21:48:31 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot water heater In-Reply-To: References: <7e1ssqiirr9a0k27c9gpn5dt.1656458415859@email.lge.com> Message-ID: Hi John, Check out Sun Bandit's offering: https://sunbandit.us/solutions/ -Chris On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 9:48 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Glen, You are correct. It is an electric tank water heater according to > Home Depot. > > Thanks for Cybo. > > John > > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 7:23 PM Glenn Burt wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> Cybo inverters. >> >> You hit a pet peeve in your post and I must comment as we really need to >> be leaders. We have water heaters and hot water tanks... Why would we have >> a 'hot water heater'? >> >> -Glenn >> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. >> >> ------ Original message------ >> *From: *John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches >> *Date: *Tue, Jun 28, 2022 6:04 PM >> *To: *RE-wrenches; >> *Cc: *John Blittersdorf; >> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot >> water heater >> >> Awhile back there was a thread about a micro inverter that could be used >> to connect directly to an electric hot water heater. Can someone steer me >> to that thread or the inverter manufacturer? >> >> John Blittersdorf >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 01:52:37 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 22:52:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot water heater In-Reply-To: References: <7e1ssqiirr9a0k27c9gpn5dt.1656458415859@email.lge.com> Message-ID: We used sun bandit years ago and it was a regular accurance to go out trouble shoot then go back with the part. No more of that! Just get an electric Rheem marathon and put it on a off peak timer, less parts from companies that don't respond. Jerry On Mon, Jul 4, 2022, 6:48 PM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi John, > > Check out Sun Bandit's offering: https://sunbandit.us/solutions/ > > > -Chris > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 9:48 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Glen, You are correct. It is an electric tank water heater according to >> Home Depot. >> >> Thanks for Cybo. >> >> John >> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 7:23 PM Glenn Burt wrote: >> >>> Hi John, >>> >>> Cybo inverters. >>> >>> You hit a pet peeve in your post and I must comment as we really need to >>> be leaders. We have water heaters and hot water tanks... Why would we have >>> a 'hot water heater'? >>> >>> -Glenn >>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. >>> >>> ------ Original message------ >>> *From: *John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches >>> *Date: *Tue, Jun 28, 2022 6:04 PM >>> *To: *RE-wrenches; >>> *Cc: *John Blittersdorf; >>> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Micro inverter module direct to electric hot >>> water heater >>> >>> Awhile back there was a thread about a micro inverter that could be used >>> to connect directly to an electric hot water heater. Can someone steer me >>> to that thread or the inverter manufacturer? >>> >>> John Blittersdorf >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgsrenewables at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 08:52:12 2022 From: sgsrenewables at gmail.com (Luke Christy) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 06:52:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Insurance for consulting. In-Reply-To: References: <9D757B1F-C93D-4845-B17E-935C425AF0E8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Chris. Appreciate the info. > On Jun 27, 2022, at 6:15 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Try Brown and Brown. They are who we use. Chris > On 6/24/2022 11:48 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Hi Wrenches, >> Like many of you, I have been in PV industry a long time. I have focused on design-build operations in the off-grid realm. In recent years I have started shifting toward doing more consulting work, and having picked up a few high value clients, I am feeling the need to revisit my insurance and add professional liability insurance in addition to my GL policy. This has proved a little more difficult than expected, as my current underwriter does not offer a professional liability policy for our class of business and, and our local insurance agent is kind of out of their depth with respect to this anyway. I am a solo practitioner and don’t really represent a large account for my insurance company, so there’s little incentive for them to work hard to find me a good solution. >> >> I suspect that many Wrenches are or have been in a similar situation, so I’m wondering if anyone has advice/or comments on their experience with these issues. If you’ve had positive experience with a particular underwriter or insurance company for solar consulting work, that would be information I’d love to hear. >> >> This is probably a reply-off-list topic. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> >> Luke Christy >> >> Renewable energy consultant. >> >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional™: >> Solar Gain Services, LLC >> SGSRenewables at Gmail.com >> 719.588.3044 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgsrenewables at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 09:20:43 2022 From: sgsrenewables at gmail.com (Luke Christy) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 07:20:43 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <7660A4D7-6173-4DCF-8855-BD791C7E00C1@gmail.com> Hi Dana, Following up on this, I would certainly be interested. We are a small shop but I typically sell and install 5-8 generators per year. These are almost always Kohler 3600rpm 14kW units, so a 13 kW low speed unit would be welcome as an option. Thanks! > On Jun 30, 2022, at 12:01 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, > > I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. > > If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? > > If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. > > If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. > > Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. > I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From integrityenergy101 at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 10:43:25 2022 From: integrityenergy101 at gmail.com (Amos Post) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 10:43:25 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <7660A4D7-6173-4DCF-8855-BD791C7E00C1@gmail.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <7660A4D7-6173-4DCF-8855-BD791C7E00C1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9B4A7CD4-E759-458A-98E5-04CF8D71F20F@gmail.com> I will second with 4-5 per year. The Kohlers are what we use currently also in the 8-14KW range for off-grid (mostly the 14KW size). Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 ienergyVT.com Facebook > On Jul 6, 2022, at 9:20 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Dana, > Following up on this, I would certainly be interested. > We are a small shop but I typically sell and install 5-8 generators per year. These are almost always Kohler 3600rpm 14kW units, so a 13 kW low speed unit would be welcome as an option. > > Thanks! > > >> On Jun 30, 2022, at 12:01 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> >> Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, >> >> I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. >> >> If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? >> >> If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. >> >> If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. >> >> Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. >> I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >> >> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE LOGO 150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kpegg at energyalternatives.ca Fri Jul 8 14:59:07 2022 From: kpegg at energyalternatives.ca (Kevin Pegg) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 18:59:07 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Thanks for this - there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying a 3-5 per year. Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? Kevin From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: June-30-22 11:02 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: Dana Orzel Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled - 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Jul 8 15:09:36 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 13:09:36 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> The question was - When might these units be available? The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many units might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly. Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that be & at that point they need to source & design. I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc. I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date we will do so. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Kevin Pegg Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Thanks for this - there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying a 3-5 per year. Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? Kevin From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: June-30-22 11:02 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Dana Orzel > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled - 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reellison at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 20:18:08 2022 From: reellison at gmail.com (RE Ellison) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 20:18:08 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum board repair Message-ID: <2F9C1E86-F610-4D37-A8D8-6A35005A06D5@gmail.com> Does anybody know of an individual or company that repairs boards for the Magnum 4024 inverters ? Seems that I’ve read there’s people doing outback boards But but I’d like to find somebody that could do them for the magnums Thanks Bob Ellison From tump at swnl.net Sun Jul 10 12:53:55 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:53:55 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> How many folks require UL listing to install, this may expedite delivery? > On Jul 8, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > The question was – When might these units be available? > > The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many units might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly. > Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that be & at that point they need to source & design. > I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc. > > I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date we will do so. > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches > Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM > To: RE-wrenches > > Cc: Kevin Pegg > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > Thanks for this – there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying a 3-5 per year. > > Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? > > Kevin > > From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > Sent: June-30-22 11:02 AM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > > Cc: Dana Orzel > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, > > I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. > > If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? > > If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. > > If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. > > Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. > I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 15:15:08 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:15:08 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> Message-ID: We typically do not require UL listing, but that is always good for insurance reasons... *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 12:53 PM Tump via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > How many folks require UL listing to install, this may expedite delivery? > > On Jul 8, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > The question was – When might these units be available? > > The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many units > might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly. > Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that be & > at that point they need to source & design. > I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment > choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc. > > I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date we > will do so. > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Kevin Pegg > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS > INQUIRY > > Thanks for this – there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying > a 3-5 per year. > > Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? > > Kevin > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* June-30-22 11:02 AM > *To:* 'RE-wrenches' > *Cc:* Dana Orzel > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, > > I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for > the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I > explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler > dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. > > If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - > water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how > many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? > > *If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in > per year? *I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this > sized unit. > > If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a > possibility. > > Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us > know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & > available gensets for our off grid client systems. > I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do > not want your name passed along let me know for now. > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > *C - 208.721.7003 **dana at solarwork.com* > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Sun Jul 10 16:02:42 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 14:02:42 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> Message-ID: <008201d89498$04ca5b60$0e5f1220$@OasisMontana.com> I think we could sell a couple a year. --Chris @ the Oasis Montana From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Tump via RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2022 10:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Tump Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY How many folks require UL listing to install, this may expedite delivery? On Jul 8, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: The question was – When might these units be available? The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many units might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly. Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that be & at that point they need to source & design. I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc. I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date we will do so. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Kevin Pegg > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Thanks for this – there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying a 3-5 per year. Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? Kevin From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: June-30-22 11:02 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Dana Orzel > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net Solarwinds Northernlights Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 Blair "TUMP" May ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solareagle at solareagle.com Sun Jul 10 17:10:41 2022 From: solareagle at solareagle.com (Ron Young) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 14:10:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Leakage of current Message-ID: <05B32D48-AEEE-47AC-B221-C5A366E218FE@solareagle.com> I have a customer that has self installed an array on a metal roof using APS Rapid shutdown devices. The roof rack is standard rails and L-feet. It is a high voltage system that will be connected to a Sol-Ark but it has yet to be connected, just MC cables from each set of 8 panels (3 altogether) run back to the location where the Sol-Ark will be installed. He raised a concern about what he described as leakage of current to the metal roof: "I did experience noticeable “leakage” of current to our roof prior to installation of the ground cable...Working around the metal roof one could definitely feel the tingle of the current, and it persisted until I had the ground cable connected.” My only guess is that possibly the APS devices are leaking at connection point but not sure how to check or he had an unprotected end of the MC cable touching the roof but that wouldn’t leak with the APS shutoff installed as it would need a signal from the transmitter that is not yet installed in the Sol-Ark. The panels are LG375’s. Ron earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 18:12:59 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:12:59 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Leakage of current In-Reply-To: <05B32D48-AEEE-47AC-B221-C5A366E218FE@solareagle.com> References: <05B32D48-AEEE-47AC-B221-C5A366E218FE@solareagle.com> Message-ID: <4B40BF17-92C4-4096-8564-CDCBAA7484E7@gmail.com> Hi Ron I would check via clamp on meter to see if/which string of modules has current on it. Jay > On Jul 10, 2022, at 3:10 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I have a customer that has self installed an array on a metal roof using APS Rapid shutdown devices. The roof rack is standard rails and L-feet. It is a high voltage system that will be connected to a Sol-Ark but it has yet to be connected, just MC cables from each set of 8 panels (3 altogether) run back to the location where the Sol-Ark will be installed. He raised a concern about what he described as leakage of current to the metal roof: > > "I did experience noticeable “leakage” of current to our roof prior to installation of the ground cable...Working around the metal roof one could definitely feel the tingle of the current, and it persisted until I had the ground cable connected.” > > My only guess is that possibly the APS devices are leaking at connection point but not sure how to check or he had an unprotected end of the MC cable touching the roof but that wouldn’t leak with the APS shutoff installed as it would need a signal from the transmitter that is not yet installed in the Sol-Ark. The panels are LG375’s. > > Ron > earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 18:17:27 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 15:17:27 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Leakage of current In-Reply-To: <05B32D48-AEEE-47AC-B221-C5A366E218FE@solareagle.com> References: <05B32D48-AEEE-47AC-B221-C5A366E218FE@solareagle.com> Message-ID: Is there any other power sources on this building, does the leak go away at night, what is the voltage of this tingle? Fun times! On Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 2:10 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have a customer that has self installed an array on a metal roof using > APS Rapid shutdown devices. The roof rack is standard rails and L-feet. It > is a high voltage system that will be connected to a Sol-Ark but it has yet > to be connected, just MC cables from each set of 8 panels (3 altogether) > run back to the location where the Sol-Ark will be installed. He raised a > concern about what he described as leakage of current to the metal roof: > > "I did experience noticeable “leakage” of current to our roof prior to > installation of the ground cable...Working around the metal roof one could > definitely feel the tingle of the current, and it persisted until I had the > ground cable connected.” > > My only guess is that possibly the APS devices are leaking at connection > point but not sure how to check or he had an unprotected end of the MC > cable touching the roof but that wouldn’t leak with the APS shutoff > installed as it would need a signal from the transmitter that is not yet > installed in the Sol-Ark. The panels are LG375’s. > > Ron > earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon Jul 11 08:13:51 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:13:51 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <008201d89498$04ca5b60$0e5f1220$@OasisMontana.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> <008201d89498$04ca5b60$0e5f1220$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <4a19d33125abd150e24ba76a2017dfcf@redwoodalliance.org> There is no regular pattern to our need for generators, but we could likely sell some. --- On 2022-07-10 16:02, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > I think we could sell a couple a year. > > --Chris @ the Oasis Montana > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Tump via RE-wrenches > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2022 10:54 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Tump > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > How many folks require UL listing to install, this may expedite delivery? > >> On Jul 8, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> The question was - When might these units be available? >> >> The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many units might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly. >> >> Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that be & at that point they need to source & design. >> >> I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc. >> >> I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date we will do so. >> >> Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 >> >> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches >> Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Cc: Kevin Pegg >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY >> >> Thanks for this - there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying a 3-5 per year. >> >> Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? >> >> Kevin >> >> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches >> Sent: June-30-22 11:02 AM >> To: 'RE-wrenches' >> Cc: Dana Orzel >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY >> >> Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, >> >> I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. >> >> If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled - 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? >> >> _If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? _I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. >> >> If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. >> >> Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. >> >> I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >> >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com [1] >> >> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >> >> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [2] >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [3] >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [4] >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [5] >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [6] >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [7] > >> Tump [8]3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net [9] >> >> Solarwinds Northernlights _ _ >> >> _ Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California_ >> _ 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 _ >> >> _ __Blair "TUMP" May_ >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> _ NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"_ >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> _ Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"_ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.greatsolarworks.com/ [2] http://re-wrenches.org/ [3] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [4] https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [5] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [6] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [7] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ [8] blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.net [9] blocked::http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Mon Jul 11 10:45:02 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 10:45:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> Message-ID: <42b69210-a905-3a78-084d-547a1e561351@entech-engineering.com> The more our local utility tries to suppress solar, the more we are taking people off grid, so I would estimate 3 a year for our small locale. On 7/10/2022 12:53 PM, Tump via RE-wrenches wrote: > How many folks require UL listing to install, this may expedite delivery? >> On Jul 8, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> The question was – When might these units be available? >> The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many >> units might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly. >> Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that >> be & at that point they need to source & design. >> I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment >> choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc. >> I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date >> we will do so. >> Dana Orzel -  E -dana at solarwork.com-  C - 208.721.7003 // >> *From:*RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of*Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:*Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM >> *To:*RE-wrenches >> *Cc:*Kevin Pegg >> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS >> INQUIRY >> Thanks for this – there is certainly demand. I could see my company >> buying a 3-5 per year. >> Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? >> Kevin >> *From:*RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of*Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:*June-30-22 11:02 AM >> *To:*'RE-wrenches' >> *Cc:*Dana Orzel >> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY >> Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, >> I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld >> for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas >> powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market >> since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this >> size range. >> If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM >> - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, >> how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? >> /_If this was available how many units would each of you be >> interested in per year?_/I am not asking for a commitment just a >> market survey for this sized unit. >> If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be >> a possibility. >> Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let >> us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately >> sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. >> I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you >> do not want your name passed along let me know for now. >> Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. >> *C - 208.721.7003 **dana at solarwork.com* ** >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374 >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com >> >> _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _ >> ** >> *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> *Tump >> 3391 at gmail.com* >> *www.SWNL.net* >> >> Solarwinds Northernlights *//* >> */       Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California/**/ >> /**/   207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401 /* >> *//**/Blair "TUMP" May/* >> >> */             ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> /**//**/  NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"/**/ >> /**/ >>               ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> /**/        Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"/* >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 12:16:15 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:16:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <42b69210-a905-3a78-084d-547a1e561351@entech-engineering.com> References: <008301d88cab$7b68c670$723a5350$@solarwork.com> <003601d892fe$443d5bd0$ccb81370$@solarwork.com> <3E5B6A4F-EA93-4410-A5F4-18A12B763FF7@swnl.net> <42b69210-a905-3a78-084d-547a1e561351@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: We are desperate for a dependable liquid cooled generator in the 12-16 kW range. If quality is there, I could see us installing 10+ a year. -Chris On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 10:45 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The more our local utility tries to suppress solar, the more we are taking > people off grid, so I would estimate 3 a year for our small locale. > On 7/10/2022 12:53 PM, Tump via RE-wrenches wrote: > > How many folks require UL listing to install, this may expedite delivery? > > On Jul 8, 2022, at 3:09 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > The question was – When might these units be available? > > The first request from the manu. was to get a survey of how many units > might get sold per year & responses are still trickling in slowly. > Next Tump & I will be in a zoom meeting with the company powers that be & > at that point they need to source & design. > I would bet it is out aways still depending on equipment > choices/availability, testing & UL certification etc. > > I would not even dare to guess but when we ca report back with a date we > will do so. > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Friday, July 8, 2022 12:59 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Kevin Pegg > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS > INQUIRY > > Thanks for this – there is certainly demand. I could see my company buying > a 3-5 per year. > > Is there any estimate of timeline when these might be available? > > Kevin > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* June-30-22 11:02 AM > *To:* 'RE-wrenches' > *Cc:* Dana Orzel > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, > > I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for > the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I > explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler > dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. > > If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - > water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how > many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? > > *If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in > per year? *I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this > sized unit. > > If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a > possibility. > > Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us > know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & > available gensets for our off grid client systems. > I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do > not want your name passed along let me know for now. > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > *C - 208.721.7003 **dana at solarwork.com* > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rich at solartechvt.com Mon Jul 11 14:13:06 2022 From: rich at solartechvt.com (rich at solartechvt.com) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:13:06 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solarworld Warranty Message-ID: <033f01d89551$df4c2a70$9de47f50$@solartechvt.com> Hello Wrenches Does anybody have a contact for whoever the 3rd party is that supposedly will honor Solarworld warranties? Also, have any of you pursued warranty assistance due to issues with the Amphenol connectors (melting/arc faults) I had thought the issue was only with Amphenol to MC4 connections but it seems that Amphenol to Amphenol connections are also problematic. Thank You! Rich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jul 12 14:38:27 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:38:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 Message-ID: I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in anything other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase batteries involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a straight grid tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same thing. You would not have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of course. I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the IQ8 in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly more, and you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using batteries that can be quite a pain in some scenarios. Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them better? P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model number and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I understand the 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From markf at berkeleysolar.com Tue Jul 12 17:15:18 2022 From: markf at berkeleysolar.com (Mark Frye) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:15:18 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you need the additional switch if you use the Enphase battery? From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 11:38 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in anything other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase batteries involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a straight grid tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same thing. You would not have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of course. I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the IQ8 in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly more, and you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using batteries that can be quite a pain in some scenarios. Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them better? P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model number and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I understand the 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jul 12 17:24:45 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:24:45 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, they require a proprietary rapid shutdown switch that connects to the smart controller. This would be in addition to a visible load break disconnect if the utility requires it. You cannot fulfill both requirements with one switch, and it requires a line voltage circuit be run from the smart controller to the rapid shutdown switch. On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 5:15 PM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Do you need the additional switch if you use the Enphase battery? > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2022 11:38 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 > > > > I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in anything > other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase batteries > involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a straight grid > tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same thing. You would not > have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of course. > > > > I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the IQ8 > in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly more, and > you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using batteries that can > be quite a pain in some scenarios. > > > > Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest > capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them better? > > > > P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model number > and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I understand the > 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 18:54:54 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:54:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <383B3318-06A4-4DAA-A0C3-7FE0ADDA7F34@gmail.com> Hi Jason And if you don’t have the smart controller/battery system then you do not need this proprietary rapid shut down switch correct? Jay > On Jul 12, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Yes, they require a proprietary rapid shutdown switch that connects to the smart controller. This would be in addition to a visible load break disconnect if the utility requires it. You cannot fulfill both requirements with one switch, and it requires a line voltage circuit be run from the smart controller to the rapid shutdown switch. > > > >> On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 5:15 PM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Do you need the additional switch if you use the Enphase battery? >> >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 11:38 AM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Cc: Jason Szumlanski >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 >> >> >> >> I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in anything other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase batteries involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a straight grid tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same thing. You would not have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of course. >> >> >> >> I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the IQ8 in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly more, and you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using batteries that can be quite a pain in some scenarios. >> >> >> >> Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them better? >> >> >> >> P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model number and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I understand the 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. >> >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com Tue Jul 12 19:03:10 2022 From: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com (Nick Soleil) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 23:03:10 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 In-Reply-To: <383B3318-06A4-4DAA-A0C3-7FE0ADDA7F34@gmail.com> References: <383B3318-06A4-4DAA-A0C3-7FE0ADDA7F34@gmail.com> Message-ID: That is correct, Jay. You only need the rapid shutdown switch if you have IQ 8s and an IQ System Controller. One of the big advantages of the IQ 8 over IQ 7 when paired with storage is that the 1.5 PV to storage ratio does not apply, so you can install larger PV systems with smaller battery systems. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 3:54 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jay Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Hi Jason And if you don’t have the smart controller/battery system then you do not need this proprietary rapid shut down switch correct? Jay On Jul 12, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:  Yes, they require a proprietary rapid shutdown switch that connects to the smart controller. This would be in addition to a visible load break disconnect if the utility requires it. You cannot fulfill both requirements with one switch, and it requires a line voltage circuit be run from the smart controller to the rapid shutdown switch. On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 5:15 PM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches > wrote: Do you need the additional switch if you use the Enphase battery? From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 11:38 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jason Szumlanski > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in anything other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase batteries involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a straight grid tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same thing. You would not have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of course. I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the IQ8 in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly more, and you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using batteries that can be quite a pain in some scenarios. Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them better? P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model number and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I understand the 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Jul 12 19:16:28 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 19:16:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: <383B3318-06A4-4DAA-A0C3-7FE0ADDA7F34@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Nick. That is definitely an advantage that I didn't consider I suppose. You're talking about the AC rating limit (microinverter combined output). I think it would be rare around here because small battery systems are not appropriate for central air conditioning backup. Most of the systems we install are 40kWh, and that's cutting it very close for most homes. If my math is right, that allows about 23kW of PV (AC) with the IQ7 series before you exceed the limit. We did one maxed out system with 66 x 415W panels with IQ7A. We would be hard pressed to find a scenario where more PV is necessary while 40kWh of battery capacity is sufficient. While on the subject, it is important to note that only 80A of PV OCPD can land on the smart controller busbar. In the application above, that meant 44 microinverters. The other 22 had to be feeder tapped on the load side of the smart controller. That is not exactly an elegant solution. Totally irrelevant to this conversation, but interesting to note. I'm finding a lot of competitors in my market offering the IQ8 series without sunlight backup and I have been scratching my head as to why. I have been explaining to clients that it is not necessary to incur the extra expense, but that is a hard sell when someone else is telling them they are getting the latest and greatest. I don't want to roll over and join them, but I also don't want to miss an important benefit that I haven't considered. Jason On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 7:03 PM Nick Soleil via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > That is correct, Jay. You only need the rapid shutdown switch if you have > IQ 8s and an IQ System Controller. > > One of the big advantages of the IQ 8 over IQ 7 when paired with storage > is that the 1.5 PV to storage ratio does not apply, so you can install > larger PV systems with smaller battery systems. > > Cordially, > > Nick Soleil > > Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager > > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > > (707) 321-2937 // cell > > *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System > > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jay via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2022 3:54 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jay > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 > > *EXTERNAL EMAIL* - *Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or > downloading attachments.* > > > > > Hi Jason > > And if you don’t have the smart controller/battery system then you do not > need this proprietary rapid shut down switch correct? > > Jay > > > > On Jul 12, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Yes, they require a proprietary rapid shutdown switch that connects to the > smart controller. This would be in addition to a visible load break > disconnect if the utility requires it. You cannot fulfill both requirements > with one switch, and it requires a line voltage circuit be run from the > smart controller to the rapid shutdown switch. > > > > On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 5:15 PM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Do you need the additional switch if you use the Enphase battery? > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2022 11:38 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 > > > > I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in anything > other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase batteries > involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a straight grid > tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same thing. You would not > have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of course. > > > > I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the IQ8 > in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly more, and > you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using batteries that can > be quite a pain in some scenarios. > > > > Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest > capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them better? > > > > P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model number > and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I understand the > 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. > > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Tue Jul 12 20:29:22 2022 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 00:29:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo Warranty Sanyo Blemish In-Reply-To: References: <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1959764312.4829540.1656199989492@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <915482649.398074.1657672162346@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Folks, I got a heartbeat!  Current Sanyo warranty stuff goes here: Ray Hammersley Photo Voltaic Customer Service (PVCS) Cell: 862-227-6082 Panasonic Eco Systems North America (PESNA) Division of Panasonic Corporation of North America *Company name has been changed since April 1, 2020 8755 Citizens Dr, Suite #206, Wilsonville, OR. 97070 Ray.hammersley at us.panasonic.com  Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 12:01:23 AM PDT, Dave Lee wrote: Hi Andrew, I have worked on at least 2-3 issues like this.  Key contact is Trevor Tufts who is with Panasonic ......  trevor.tufts at us.panasonic.com.  I don't have a phone number for him. You will need to run an IV curve test on every panel that is under warranty and you have to submit the results.  Panels can exhibit different IV Curve results when dry vs wet testing. Good results on all claims with the most recent in the last month down in Monterey. Dave On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 4:33 PM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi Folks, I have searched the archives but can't seem to find anything more current on the subject than 2015. Does anyone have info on how to process a warranty claim with Sanyo/Panasonic? We have a client that has a Sanyo panel that looks like... Thoughts?  Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1656199950007blob.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1008485 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue Jul 12 22:54:13 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:54:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: <383B3318-06A4-4DAA-A0C3-7FE0ADDA7F34@gmail.com> Message-ID: <034b01d89663$d61ec8a0$825c59e0$@solarcentex.com> When we do Enphase MIs, we exclusively use IQ8+ Primarily for reason that Nick lays out. If (when) customer comes back for storage, we don’t have to deconstruct a system to fit an Encharge 10. We have had some storage retrofit customers where we didn’t do the original install where we said, “go with the dual Encharge so we don’t have to partially deconstruct your system to fit a single 10kwh battery.” Like the concept of Daylight Backup (SMA Secure Power Supply on steroids) but since all the hardware there as for backup (minus the battery) we pretty much tell folks, “put the battery in – you’re almost there and you’ll gain energy management features.” From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 6:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 Thanks, Nick. That is definitely an advantage that I didn't consider I suppose. You're talking about the AC rating limit (microinverter combined output). I think it would be rare around here because small battery systems are not appropriate for central air conditioning backup. Most of the systems we install are 40kWh, and that's cutting it very close for most homes. If my math is right, that allows about 23kW of PV (AC) with the IQ7 series before you exceed the limit. We did one maxed out system with 66 x 415W panels with IQ7A. We would be hard pressed to find a scenario where more PV is necessary while 40kWh of battery capacity is sufficient. While on the subject, it is important to note that only 80A of PV OCPD can land on the smart controller busbar. In the application above, that meant 44 microinverters. The other 22 had to be feeder tapped on the load side of the smart controller. That is not exactly an elegant solution. Totally irrelevant to this conversation, but interesting to note. I'm finding a lot of competitors in my market offering the IQ8 series without sunlight backup and I have been scratching my head as to why. I have been explaining to clients that it is not necessary to incur the extra expense, but that is a hard sell when someone else is telling them they are getting the latest and greatest. I don't want to roll over and join them, but I also don't want to miss an important benefit that I haven't considered. Jason On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 7:03 PM Nick Soleil via RE-wrenches > wrote: That is correct, Jay. You only need the rapid shutdown switch if you have IQ 8s and an IQ System Controller. One of the big advantages of the IQ 8 over IQ 7 when paired with storage is that the 1.5 PV to storage ratio does not apply, so you can install larger PV systems with smaller battery systems. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 _____ From: RE-wrenches > on behalf of Jay via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 3:54 PM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jay > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Hi Jason And if you don’t have the smart controller/battery system then you do not need this proprietary rapid shut down switch correct? Jay On Jul 12, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote:  Yes, they require a proprietary rapid shutdown switch that connects to the smart controller. This would be in addition to a visible load break disconnect if the utility requires it. You cannot fulfill both requirements with one switch, and it requires a line voltage circuit be run from the smart controller to the rapid shutdown switch. On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 5:15 PM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches > wrote: Do you need the additional switch if you use the Enphase battery? From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 11:38 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jason Szumlanski > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in anything other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase batteries involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a straight grid tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same thing. You would not have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of course. I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the IQ8 in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly more, and you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using batteries that can be quite a pain in some scenarios. Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them better? P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model number and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I understand the 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jul 13 06:04:46 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 06:04:46 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LiPO with Trace SW5548 Message-ID: Any suggestions for LiPO batteries that play nice with the SW5548? This system also has an Outback CC for a pretty small PV array (rating TBD). Based on some pics I received from the client, the current lead acid battery appears to be around 40kWh and was slightly undersized, so I'd be looking for LiPO around 30kWh. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Wed Jul 13 07:14:53 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:14:53 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LiPO with Trace SW5548 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’d look at the Simpliphi brand We’ve had good luck, however they were smaller in size at 3.8KW Perhaps they make a larger battery for your needs. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Jul 13, 2022, at 4:05 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:  Any suggestions for LiPO batteries that play nice with the SW5548? This system also has an Outback CC for a pretty small PV array (rating TBD). Based on some pics I received from the client, the current lead acid battery appears to be around 40kWh and was slightly undersized, so I'd be looking for LiPO around 30kWh. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Wed Jul 13 08:57:28 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:57:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 In-Reply-To: References: <383B3318-06A4-4DAA-A0C3-7FE0ADDA7F34@gmail.com> Message-ID: Are the IQ-7 inverters going to remain available? The additional cost of the IQ-8 micros killed one project where I couldn't find a good source for IQ-7s. Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-07-12 19:03, Nick Soleil via RE-wrenches wrote: > That is correct, Jay. You only need the rapid shutdown switch if you > have IQ 8s and an IQ System Controller. > > One of the big advantages of the IQ 8 over IQ 7 when paired with > storage is that the 1.5 PV to storage ratio does not apply, so you can > install larger PV systems with smaller battery systems. > > Cordially, > > Nick Soleil > > Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager > > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > > (707) 321-2937 // cell > > Powering What's Next(tm)_ | _The Enphase Energy Management System > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > > ------------------------- > > From: RE-wrenches on behalf > of Jay via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 3:54 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jay > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 > > EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or > downloading attachments. > > Hi Jason > > And if you don't have the smart controller/battery system then you do > not need this proprietary rapid shut down switch correct? > > Jay > >> On Jul 12, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> wrote: > > Yes, they require a proprietary rapid shutdown switch that connects to > the smart controller. This would be in addition to a visible load break > disconnect if the utility requires it. You cannot fulfill both > requirements with one switch, and it requires a line voltage circuit be > run from the smart controller to the rapid shutdown switch. > > On Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 5:15 PM Mark Frye via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Do you need the additional switch if you use the Enphase battery? > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 11:38 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jason Szumlanski > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 versus IQ8 > > I am trying to figure out why it is a good idea we use the IQ8 in > anything other than a solar only backup scenario. If there are Enphase > batteries involved, wouldn't the IQ7 do the same job on the roof? In a > straight grid tied scenario, again the IQ7 would do the exact same > thing. You would not have an upgrade path to solar only backup, of > course. > > I'm just having a hard time understanding the value proposition of the > IQ8 in most of the situations I encounter. They cost significantly > more, and you need an additional rapid shutdown switch when using > batteries that can be quite a pain in some scenarios. > > Am I missing something about the switching speed, energy harvest > capability, or the way they interact with batteries that makes them > better? > > P.S. I am aware of the very small power output differences by model > number and I am referring exclusively to 240 volt applications. I > understand the 208 volt advantages of the IQ8. > > Jason Szumlanski > > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From frenergy at psln.com Wed Jul 13 09:52:28 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 06:52:28 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LiPO with Trace SW5548 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8e2b1b6f-8daf-c97c-0f45-667edf31e2a1@psln.com> Just stack 8 SimpliPhi 3.8's for your 30 Kwhrs. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 7/13/2022 4:14 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > I’d look at the Simpliphi brand > We’ve had good luck, however they were smaller in size at 3.8KW > Perhaps they make a larger battery for your needs. > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > >> On Jul 13, 2022, at 4:05 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> Any suggestions for LiPO batteries that play nice with the SW5548? >> This system also has an Outback CC for a pretty small PV array >> (rating TBD). >> >> Based on some pics I received from the client, the current lead acid >> battery appears to be around 40kWh and was slightly undersized, so >> I'd be looking for LiPO around 30kWh. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Wed Jul 13 10:54:20 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:54:20 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking to upgrade my presentation Message-ID: <002901d896c8$6f3f88d0$4dbe9a70$@solarwork.com> Hey all you solar computer wizards out there! My forte is not & never has been sales presentation & my current sales are reflecting my beyond simple presentation. My proposal presentation is a basic email. E-mail Simple, to the point, time consuming, not glossy, & again very time consuming. I have tried to use Open Solar but the last time Google shot our area was 2016 so most of what I am quoting is not on Google. My House that was started in 2016 still shows as sage & aspen on Google Earth. I am looking for a "fill in the particulars" type of form, plug in module size & # of modules, cost per watt with local utility , $ saved based on estimated production, with some degree of auto calculation for electrical production, cost, reflecting fed &state tax credits, trees saves, Co2 offset, etc... Any and all suggestion are welcome. Interested in selling the format you have generated for a reasonable fee? Thanks in advance all. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 11:36:57 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:36:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LiPO with Trace SW5548 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fortress Evault max, good form factor, simple Jerry On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:05 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Any suggestions for LiPO batteries that play nice with the SW5548? This > system also has an Outback CC for a pretty small PV array (rating TBD). > > Based on some pics I received from the client, the current lead acid > battery appears to be around 40kWh and was slightly undersized, so I'd be > looking for LiPO around 30kWh. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jul 13 12:04:12 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:04:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking to upgrade my presentation In-Reply-To: <002901d896c8$6f3f88d0$4dbe9a70$@solarwork.com> References: <002901d896c8$6f3f88d0$4dbe9a70$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: It's not the most elegant solution, but if you have another source of imagery you can import it into Open Solar. Once you have the imagery in there and scaled, it works quite well. Jason Szumlanski On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 10:54 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey all you solar computer wizards out there! > > > > My forte is not & never has been sales presentation & my current sales are > reflecting my beyond simple presentation. > > My proposal presentation is a basic email. E-mail Simple, to the point, > time consuming, not glossy, & again very time consuming. > > I have tried to use Open Solar but the last time Google shot our area was > 2016 so most of what I am quoting is not on Google. My House that was > started in 2016 still shows as sage & aspen on Google Earth. > > > > I am looking for a “fill in the particulars” type of form, plug in module > size & # of modules, cost per watt with local utility , $ saved based on > estimated production, with some degree of auto calculation for electrical > production, cost, reflecting fed &state tax credits, trees saves, Co2 > offset, etc.…. > > > > Any and all suggestion are welcome. Interested in selling the format you > have generated for a reasonable fee? > > > > Thanks in advance all. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Jul 13 12:05:04 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:05:04 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LiPO with Trace SW5548 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok, Fortress and Simplifi for the two that I was considering. As long as there are no issues with lack of closed loop communication, it sounds like those are the way to go. Jason Szumlanski On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 11:37 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Fortress Evault max, good form factor, simple > Jerry > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:05 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Any suggestions for LiPO batteries that play nice with the SW5548? This >> system also has an Outback CC for a pretty small PV array (rating TBD). >> >> Based on some pics I received from the client, the current lead acid >> battery appears to be around 40kWh and was slightly undersized, so I'd be >> looking for LiPO around 30kWh. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Wed Jul 13 15:49:43 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:49:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Growatt systems Message-ID: Does anyone have experience with Growatt systems? What do you think of them? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 22:48:13 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 20:48:13 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LiPO with Trace SW5548 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would consider a 15 cell (3.2 volts per cell) Lithium Iron Phosphate battery such as FNS (UL Listed 15 cell). This puts the LBCO at about 47.6-48.0V or so. A 15 series cell battery puts the voltage in line with the LBCO of the Trace inverter without an auxiliary contactor triggered by the charge controller or another device. EIther way works, but then you don't have to worry about tripping out the low battery at the BMS instead of the inverter. I will say that the Fortress is a nice quick install if you don't have to lift it but the 48V LBCO limit will need to be dealt with in a 16 cell battery. Let us know what you decide. Cheers On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 10:05 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Ok, Fortress and Simplifi for the two that I was considering. As long as > there are no issues with lack of closed loop communication, it sounds like > those are the way to go. > > Jason Szumlanski > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 11:37 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Fortress Evault max, good form factor, simple >> Jerry >> >> On Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:05 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Any suggestions for LiPO batteries that play nice with the SW5548? This >>> system also has an Outback CC for a pretty small PV array (rating TBD). >>> >>> Based on some pics I received from the client, the current lead acid >>> battery appears to be around 40kWh and was slightly undersized, so I'd be >>> looking for LiPO around 30kWh. >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Jul 15 13:24:34 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:24:34 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge generator integration - an update and my response. Not any further along Message-ID: <035401d8986f$c0f20d30$42d62790$@solarcentex.com> SolarEdge provide me a tech note on generator integration. The link is at end. Here is my response to SolarEdge - looks like they're trying an outside the Backup Interface Unit integration which might not be a big deal except the BUI has generator lugs! My response: "I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this tech note is horribly underwhelming, impractical and I'm afraid a tacit admission that SolarEdge cannot get its Generator integration properly designed and validated. The BUI has dedicated lugs for generator integration which clearly means, "plug the generator in here." But all the examples in this tech note have the generator integrated with a separate 3rd party transfer switch off the critical loads panel. Customers and installers aren't looking (or expecting) manual integration to the essential loads panel and necessary transfer switching; they are looking for (and expecting) more sophisticated integration to ensure that generators can provide seamless, no-man-in-loop generator charging of battery and the loads when PV production is limited. Look at the solutions in this note that require reprogramming. I highlighted two. In neither highlighted case is it practical to reprogram a site for "Net Zero Export" and "AC Grid charge" after the grid failure. In fact, in normal operations this programming would most decidedly not be programmed like this so to say that after the grid failure, the inverter would then be reprogrammed to these alternate settings to gain capability is nearly worthless. So I come back to the BUI design with the generator lugs that clearly are not used in any application of this tech note. Will anything be done to provide capability through the BUI directly? We both know the generator lugs were not included for no reason. Please do pass this back to management." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Mon Jul 18 07:37:45 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:37:45 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Felicity Solar Message-ID: Morning Folks.. anyone have any dealings with Felicity Solar ? TIA db -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Wed Jul 20 07:29:45 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 11:29:45 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters Message-ID: Does anyone have a source these days for Magnum Energy Inverters? Contact me off list if needed. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Wed Jul 20 08:26:55 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 06:26:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeremy, I have long and happily used Backwoods Solar, who carries Magnum, but I checked their website and see that all split-phase Magnums are shown as on backorder. I work with Erika Karnitz, 541 482-3439. Allan On 7/20/2022 5:29 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > Does anyone have a source these days for Magnum Energy Inverters? > Contact me off list if needed. > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Wed Jul 20 10:29:02 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:29:02 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002f01d89c45$0fb0ef80$2f12ce80$@OasisMontana.com> I’ve recently been told…likely 6 month lead time or more. :>( Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 6:27 AM To: Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches Cc: Sindelar Solar Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters Jeremy, I have long and happily used Backwoods Solar, who carries Magnum, but I checked their website and see that all split-phase Magnums are shown as on backorder. I work with Erika Karnitz, 541 482-3439. Allan On 7/20/2022 5:29 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: Does anyone have a source these days for Magnum Energy Inverters? Contact me off list if needed. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -- Allan Sindelar allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sgsrenewables at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 11:08:51 2022 From: sgsrenewables at gmail.com (Luke Christy) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 09:08:51 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jeremy, Check with Zonna Energy in PA. I use them for almost all of my off-grid equipment now and have been very happy with the service and pricing. They normally stock Magnum equipment but I have not checked on inverters in a while. Luke Christy 719-588-3044 sgsrenewables at gmail.com > On Jul 20, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Does anyone have a source these days for Magnum Energy Inverters? > Contact me off list if needed. > > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solareagle at solareagle.com Wed Jul 20 16:25:51 2022 From: solareagle at solareagle.com (Ron Young) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 13:25:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BBD3198-A95B-4038-95AF-92F855A6D249@solareagle.com> I have been waiting literally months for delivery of 4024 and 4448 PAE inverters both this year and 2021. It seems Magnum has dropped through the cracks in the floorboards. My supplier, the largest in Canada, has no idea of future shipments, they just show up without advance notice. I think Magnum is in trouble. Ron Young earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com > On Jul 20, 2022, at 8:08 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Jeremy, > Check with Zonna Energy in PA. I use them for almost all of my off-grid equipment now and have been very happy with the service and pricing. They normally stock Magnum equipment but I have not checked on inverters in a while. > > > Luke Christy > 719-588-3044 > sgsrenewables at gmail.com > > >> On Jul 20, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> >> Does anyone have a source these days for Magnum Energy Inverters? >> Contact me off list if needed. >> >> >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> Solar Installation / Design Expert >> All Solar, Inc. >> 1453 M St >> Penrose Colorado 81240 >> >> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 18:34:21 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:34:21 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: <4BBD3198-A95B-4038-95AF-92F855A6D249@solareagle.com> References: <4BBD3198-A95B-4038-95AF-92F855A6D249@solareagle.com> Message-ID: The Samlex EVO4248SP is a potential substitute. The only system panel is the MidNite E-panel. This is a 4.2 kW split phase inverter. Brad AEE Solar Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 20, 2022, at 1:25 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I have been waiting literally months for delivery of 4024 and 4448 PAE inverters both this year and 2021. It seems Magnum has dropped through the cracks in the floorboards. My supplier, the largest in Canada, has no idea of future shipments, they just show up without advance notice. I think Magnum is in trouble. > > Ron Young > earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com > >> On Jul 20, 2022, at 8:08 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Hi Jeremy, >> Check with Zonna Energy in PA. I use them for almost all of my off-grid equipment now and have been very happy with the service and pricing. They normally stock Magnum equipment but I have not checked on inverters in a while. >> >> >> Luke Christy >> 719-588-3044 >> sgsrenewables at gmail.com >> >> >>> On Jul 20, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone have a source these days for Magnum Energy Inverters? >>> Contact me off list if needed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jeremy Rodriguez >>> Solar Installation / Design Expert >>> All Solar, Inc. >>> 1453 M St >>> Penrose Colorado 81240 >>> >>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 08:39:28 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 06:39:28 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] lithium in cold weather/heating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14174B60-1AFA-4A9B-A495-26CC97B286D7@gmail.com> Hi Michael Do you know if Discover is coming out with larger Helios batteries? 30 amp hrs is pretty small. And thanks everyone for the answers. As to the blue planet, I don’t think they need heaters. I was working on a system with one and the battery housing was darn warm, much warmer than anything else in the inverter room. Surprising actually. Jay > On Jul 21, 2022, at 10:18 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > 1st line of defense: Agricultural seed tray heat mats w/ integral T-stat > 2nd LOD: Empire wall heater (no electronics) w/ industrial temperature controlled relay (TCR) (similar to a thermostat) set to 38 degrees > 3rd LOD: Battery side of charge controller circuits have TCR controlled contactors to break circuit if 1 and 2 fail > > Redundancy is key here. We learned the hard way when a system we designed relied on a common battery powered T-stat that controlled a propane wall heater. Brand new Energizer Lithium AA didn't last a winter. Ouch > > All of this will be moot soon. We are about to build a half dozen systems with Discover's Helios in the next few months. Internal heaters like Battleborns but with Discover's superior architecture and components. This is the future. > > This is for NorCal >6K elevation installations. In colder climates I'd insist on conditioned and supervised spaces > > > > >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 8:56 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Jay, >> >> With the SimpliPhi's we've been installing we require a >> shed on slab, walls R-21, roof, R-38 and then the smallest propane wall >> heater (they use zero power to operate) we can find and set it at 55 >> degrees. No need for the insulated box or fretting about toasting $20K+ >> in batteries. It would be nice to find one with a thermostat that goes >> down to 45 degrees. >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, Owner >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 >> CA Lic 874049 >> >> On 7/21/2022 2:30 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >> > HI All, >> > >> > As I get more calls for offgrid designs with lithium batteries I”m wondering what you all are doing to keep the batteries warm when it gets cold. For some of you 0 F will seem mild, others super cold. >> > >> > Doing a battery box and heating that or heating the whole inverter/battery shed? >> > >> > I’m definitely not looking at batteries like battle born with the built in heaters. >> > >> > Simpliphi, Discover, some of the newer server rack ones ( UL listed), etc. >> > >> > >> > Thanks in advance >> > >> > Jay >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > 530-921-0560 > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Jul 22 21:32:05 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:32:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR: Battery voltage exceeds settings Message-ID: <12d08a66e9b5d9f99c76ab34ea1c3a04@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I maintain a system with 16 AGM L-16 batteries. Eight were installed in September of 2021 and 8 were added in March of 2022. This is 5 months apart. I have understood that when you install a string of batteries you have one year in which to add another string before the first string ages to the point it is contraindicated. When I added the second 8 I put 4 new batteries and 4 old batteries in each string. About a third of the batteries are discovered to bulging on top. I assume this means the batteries are damaged. I checked the FXR and Outback Extreme Charge controller settings and all were set to absorb at 58.8, and float at 55.2, as the manufacturer recommends. I downloaded the charge controller log and got 129 days of data. In that log I see 68 days where the batteries exceeded 60 VDC. This is over half the days. I wonder this: 1. Why did the voltage go up above 58.8 on so many days even though it was set at 58.8. (I set the EQ voltage at 58.8 just in case, but EQ was never engaged.) 2. Did the excess voltage damage the batteries? Any input is appreciated. Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Fri Jul 22 22:49:51 2022 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 19:49:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR: Battery voltage exceeds settings In-Reply-To: <12d08a66e9b5d9f99c76ab34ea1c3a04@mail.gmail.com> References: <12d08a66e9b5d9f99c76ab34ea1c3a04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William, If the battery cases swelled, they saw over 52 degrees C temps for quite some time. While the swelling is usually only cosmetic, what's happening inside is the negative plates are starting to burn. This is where you will start to lose capacity and life cycle... Extended temps of just 35C will half the overall battery life. One of the issues with the Outback gear is they only temp compensate at 5mv/Degree/cell. For all the AGM batteries I know of, you need to temp compensate at 4mv. In hot temps, this should help, but cold temps could result in an overcharge. Did you check the BTS and make sure it was operating properly? Another issue is that BTSs are often placed on the top or lug of the battery, The top of the battery is about 5-10 deg C cooler than 1/2 way down the side of the battery, Which will also cause problems with proper temperature compensation, especially with warmer/colder extremes. Any kind of sulfation will cause an imbalance when you mix old and new batteries. I'm not a fan of mixing any age AGM batteries as there is no way to tell what the SOC of the old bank vs. the new bank is. They are not like flooded batteries; you can check SGs and dissipate heat much better than AGM or GEL batteries. I discourage doing this if you can. I probably wouldn't have mixed the old and new in the same strings. This way, you keep the higher resistance batteries in a single string, Lastly, bunching them together with no spacing between them is very bad. Batteries should be in a cool, dry environment. Most battery companies want to see 1-3 inches in between each battery to allow for effective cooling. When they are all bunched up together, that is a lot of thermal mass that doesn't have much chance of cooling. I have seen two parallel strings of AGMs take 24-36 hours with no charging or load to drop from 45c to 25C! Hope this helps! Have a good weekend. Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager t +1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840 f +1.902.597.8447 e steve at surrette.com <#SignatureSanitizer_SafeHtmlFilter_> ------------------------------ CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. ------------------------------ On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 6:48 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > I maintain a system with 16 AGM L-16 batteries. Eight were installed in > September of 2021 and 8 were added in March of 2022. This is 5 months > apart. I have understood that when you install a string of batteries you > have one year in which to add another string before the first string ages > to the point it is contraindicated. When I added the second 8 I put 4 new > batteries and 4 old batteries in each string. > > > > About a third of the batteries are discovered to bulging on top. I assume > this means the batteries are damaged. I checked the FXR and Outback > Extreme Charge controller settings and all were set to absorb at 58.8, and > float at 55.2, as the manufacturer recommends. > > > > I downloaded the charge controller log and got 129 days of data. In that > log I see 68 days where the batteries exceeded 60 VDC. This is over half > the days. > > > > I wonder this: > > > > 1. Why did the voltage go up above 58.8 on so many days even though it > was set at 58.8. (I set the EQ voltage at 58.8 just in case, but EQ was > never engaged.) > > 2. Did the excess voltage damage the batteries? > > Any input is appreciated. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 11:27:18 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 08:27:18 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR: Battery voltage exceeds settings In-Reply-To: References: <12d08a66e9b5d9f99c76ab34ea1c3a04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Most AGM's don't like voltage that high and it swells the battery and destroys its storage capability alot of the time Jerry On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 7:50 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > William, > > If the battery cases swelled, they saw over 52 degrees C temps for quite > some time. > > While the swelling is usually only cosmetic, what's happening inside is > the negative plates are starting to burn. This is where you will start to > lose capacity and life cycle... Extended temps of just 35C will half the > overall battery life. > > One of the issues with the Outback gear is they only temp compensate at > 5mv/Degree/cell. For all the AGM batteries I know of, you need to temp > compensate at 4mv. In hot temps, this should help, but cold temps could > result in an overcharge. Did you check the BTS and make sure it was > operating properly? > > Another issue is that BTSs are often placed on the top or lug of the > battery, The top of the battery is about 5-10 deg C cooler than 1/2 way > down the side of the battery, Which will also cause problems with proper > temperature compensation, especially with warmer/colder extremes. > > Any kind of sulfation will cause an imbalance when you mix old and new > batteries. I'm not a fan of mixing any age AGM batteries as there is no > way to tell what the SOC of the old bank vs. the new bank is. They are > not like flooded batteries; you can check SGs and dissipate heat > much better than AGM or GEL batteries. I discourage doing this if you > can. I probably wouldn't have mixed the old and new in the same strings. > This way, you keep the higher resistance batteries in a single string, > > Lastly, bunching them together with no spacing between them is very bad. > Batteries should be in a cool, dry environment. Most battery companies > want to see 1-3 inches in between each battery to allow for effective > cooling. When they are all bunched up together, that is a lot of thermal > mass that doesn't have much chance of cooling. I have seen two parallel > strings of AGMs take 24-36 hours with no charging or load to drop from 45c > to 25C! > > Hope this helps! Have a good weekend. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager > t +1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840 > f +1.902.597.8447 e steve at surrette.com > <#m_-3124562702126219588_SignatureSanitizer_SafeHtmlFilter_> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 6:48 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Friends: >> >> >> >> I maintain a system with 16 AGM L-16 batteries. Eight were installed in >> September of 2021 and 8 were added in March of 2022. This is 5 months >> apart. I have understood that when you install a string of batteries you >> have one year in which to add another string before the first string ages >> to the point it is contraindicated. When I added the second 8 I put 4 new >> batteries and 4 old batteries in each string. >> >> >> >> About a third of the batteries are discovered to bulging on top. I >> assume this means the batteries are damaged. I checked the FXR and Outback >> Extreme Charge controller settings and all were set to absorb at 58.8, and >> float at 55.2, as the manufacturer recommends. >> >> >> >> I downloaded the charge controller log and got 129 days of data. In that >> log I see 68 days where the batteries exceeded 60 VDC. This is over half >> the days. >> >> >> >> I wonder this: >> >> >> >> 1. Why did the voltage go up above 58.8 on so many days even though it >> was set at 58.8. (I set the EQ voltage at 58.8 just in case, but EQ was >> never engaged.) >> >> 2. Did the excess voltage damage the batteries? >> >> Any input is appreciated. >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 11:55:19 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:55:19 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR: Battery voltage exceeds settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Outback controllers have a tendency to be a bit slow. So they can definitely get higher than the set points but only for a second or two which is not going do damage anything. I’ve seen them do this. Especially if it’s a larger array, sealed batteries and when the batteries are full and a load turns on and then off. At the load off the CC is dumping watts, and the sudden loss means a short voltage spike. Jay > On Jul 23, 2022, at 9:43 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Most AGM's don't like voltage that high and it swells the battery and destroys its storage capability alot of the time > Jerry > >> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 7:50 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches wrote: >> William, >> >> If the battery cases swelled, they saw over 52 degrees C temps for quite some time. >> >> While the swelling is usually only cosmetic, what's happening inside is the negative plates are starting to burn. This is where you will start to lose capacity and life cycle... Extended temps of just 35C will half the overall battery life. >> >> One of the issues with the Outback gear is they only temp compensate at 5mv/Degree/cell. For all the AGM batteries I know of, you need to temp compensate at 4mv. In hot temps, this should help, but cold temps could result in an overcharge. Did you check the BTS and make sure it was operating properly? >> >> Another issue is that BTSs are often placed on the top or lug of the battery, The top of the battery is about 5-10 deg C cooler than 1/2 way down the side of the battery, Which will also cause problems with proper temperature compensation, especially with warmer/colder extremes. >> >> Any kind of sulfation will cause an imbalance when you mix old and new batteries. I'm not a fan of mixing any age AGM batteries as there is no way to tell what the SOC of the old bank vs. the new bank is. They are not like flooded batteries; you can check SGs and dissipate heat much better than AGM or GEL batteries. I discourage doing this if you can. I probably wouldn't have mixed the old and new in the same strings. This way, you keep the higher resistance batteries in a single string, >> >> Lastly, bunching them together with no spacing between them is very bad. Batteries should be in a cool, dry environment. Most battery companies want to see 1-3 inches in between each battery to allow for effective cooling. When they are all bunched up together, that is a lot of thermal mass that doesn't have much chance of cooling. I have seen two parallel strings of AGMs take 24-36 hours with no charging or load to drop from 45c to 25C! >> >> Hope this helps! Have a good weekend. >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager >> t +1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840 >> f +1.902.597.8447 e steve at surrette.com >> >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies. >> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 6:48 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> Friends: >>> >>> >>> >>> I maintain a system with 16 AGM L-16 batteries. Eight were installed in September of 2021 and 8 were added in March of 2022. This is 5 months apart. I have understood that when you install a string of batteries you have one year in which to add another string before the first string ages to the point it is contraindicated. When I added the second 8 I put 4 new batteries and 4 old batteries in each string. >>> >>> >>> >>> About a third of the batteries are discovered to bulging on top. I assume this means the batteries are damaged. I checked the FXR and Outback Extreme Charge controller settings and all were set to absorb at 58.8, and float at 55.2, as the manufacturer recommends. >>> >>> >>> >>> I downloaded the charge controller log and got 129 days of data. In that log I see 68 days where the batteries exceeded 60 VDC. This is over half the days. >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder this: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Why did the voltage go up above 58.8 on so many days even though it was set at 58.8. (I set the EQ voltage at 58.8 just in case, but EQ was never engaged.) >>> >>> 2. Did the excess voltage damage the batteries? >>> >>> Any input is appreciated. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From welch.nicholas.r at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 12:20:19 2022 From: welch.nicholas.r at gmail.com (Nicholas Welch) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:20:19 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback FXR: Battery voltage exceeds settings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there an FNDC on this system? I’ve experienced some of the same issues when the FNDC terminations were loose. On Sat, Jul 23, 2022 at 11:56 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Outback controllers have a tendency to be a bit slow. > > So they can definitely get higher than the set points but only for a > second or two which is not going do damage anything. I’ve seen them do > this. > > Especially if it’s a larger array, sealed batteries and when the batteries > are full and a load turns on and then off. > > At the load off the CC is dumping watts, and the sudden loss means a short > voltage spike. > > Jay > > > > > On Jul 23, 2022, at 9:43 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Most AGM's don't like voltage that high and it swells the battery and > destroys its storage capability alot of the time > Jerry > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2022, 7:50 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> William, >> >> If the battery cases swelled, they saw over 52 degrees C temps for quite >> some time. >> >> While the swelling is usually only cosmetic, what's happening inside is >> the negative plates are starting to burn. This is where you will start to >> lose capacity and life cycle... Extended temps of just 35C will half the >> overall battery life. >> >> One of the issues with the Outback gear is they only temp compensate at >> 5mv/Degree/cell. For all the AGM batteries I know of, you need to temp >> compensate at 4mv. In hot temps, this should help, but cold temps could >> result in an overcharge. Did you check the BTS and make sure it was >> operating properly? >> >> Another issue is that BTSs are often placed on the top or lug of the >> battery, The top of the battery is about 5-10 deg C cooler than 1/2 way >> down the side of the battery, Which will also cause problems with proper >> temperature compensation, especially with warmer/colder extremes. >> >> Any kind of sulfation will cause an imbalance when you mix old and new >> batteries. I'm not a fan of mixing any age AGM batteries as there is no >> way to tell what the SOC of the old bank vs. the new bank is. They are >> not like flooded batteries; you can check SGs and dissipate heat >> much better than AGM or GEL batteries. I discourage doing this if you >> can. I probably wouldn't have mixed the old and new in the same strings. >> This way, you keep the higher resistance batteries in a single string, >> >> Lastly, bunching them together with no spacing between them is very bad. >> Batteries should be in a cool, dry environment. Most battery companies >> want to see 1-3 inches in between each battery to allow for effective >> cooling. When they are all bunched up together, that is a lot of thermal >> mass that doesn't have much chance of cooling. I have seen two parallel >> strings of AGMs take 24-36 hours with no charging or load to drop from 45c >> to 25C! >> >> Hope this helps! Have a good weekend. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager >> t +1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840 >> f +1.902.597.8447 e steve at surrette.com >> >> <#m_-4178165466314050815_m_-3124562702126219588_SignatureSanitizer_SafeHtmlFilter_> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for >> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged >> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the >> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If >> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or >> destroy this message and all copies. >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 6:48 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Friends: >>> >>> >>> >>> I maintain a system with 16 AGM L-16 batteries. Eight were installed in >>> September of 2021 and 8 were added in March of 2022. This is 5 months >>> apart. I have understood that when you install a string of batteries you >>> have one year in which to add another string before the first string ages >>> to the point it is contraindicated. When I added the second 8 I put 4 new >>> batteries and 4 old batteries in each string. >>> >>> >>> >>> About a third of the batteries are discovered to bulging on top. I >>> assume this means the batteries are damaged. I checked the FXR and Outback >>> Extreme Charge controller settings and all were set to absorb at 58.8, and >>> float at 55.2, as the manufacturer recommends. >>> >>> >>> >>> I downloaded the charge controller log and got 129 days of data. In >>> that log I see 68 days where the batteries exceeded 60 VDC. This is over >>> half the days. >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder this: >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Why did the voltage go up above 58.8 on so many days even though >>> it was set at 58.8. (I set the EQ voltage at 58.8 just in case, but EQ was >>> never engaged.) >>> >>> 2. Did the excess voltage damage the batteries? >>> >>> Any input is appreciated. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Sat Jul 23 13:00:41 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 11:00:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] lithium in cold weather/heating In-Reply-To: <14174B60-1AFA-4A9B-A495-26CC97B286D7@gmail.com> References: <14174B60-1AFA-4A9B-A495-26CC97B286D7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jay, Well, yes, they do need heaters, and I tried the Utah installer's solution suggested by Nick and it worked perfectly. This was a job high up in the San Pedro Mountains. Shortly after I installed a single 16 kWh cabinet, a plumber set up an electric heater in an unheated space to protect pipes, which of course drained the batteries. This was an unoccupied home. The BMS shut off the batteries, which shut off the 24W (total) heating pads and allowed the batteries to drop below freezing, so that the array couldn't recharge them. It took running the heater on a portable generator to heat the batteries, and at 331/2 degrees they came back on. I have attached the pdf of a PowerPoint Kyle sent me that discusses doing this. The batteries haven't shut down due to temperature before or since this one occurrence. Allan On 7/22/2022 6:39 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Michael > ... > As to the blue planet, I don’t think they need heaters. I was working > on a system with one and the battery housing was darn warm, much > warmer than anything else in the inverter room. Surprising actually. > Jay On 7/22/2022 12:06 AM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote: > Greetings Jay, > > I’ve been using Blue Ions exclusively for the last 5 years almost. Most of my sites sit around 1800-3000’ and only had two shutdowns due to cold temps. Since it takes such significant periods of time for that much mass to get to get below the temps of concern it really just hasn’t been a problem. Of my two shutdowns, one was my own where I’ve intentionally left the cabinet in an unconditioned area where my old L-16’s sat and the power was only out from 5:00 am to 8:30 am a couple Februarys ago. My first site that had been effected was at a client’s where the cabinet sits in an unconditioned multi-use power shed and the door to the building had been left wide open by mistake throughout the evening and the temperature logger had recored 17 degrees by 4 AM. By 10 AM by the time I had made it to the site the power was back and we’ve not had a problem since. > > Back when Kyle was at Blue Planet he said there was a dealer in Utah that placed a small seedling or reptile heating mat in the cabinet along with lining the sides and bottom with Reflectix. From what I recall they had reported great success with that effort. I think they might have even crafted a little support document showing their strategy. I’ve been keeping that one in mind for any potential project that might push the limits but seems like for most of us the instances where it would be a problem will be rare. > > Best of luck, Nick >> >> On 7/21/2022 2:30 PM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >> > HI All, >> > As I get more calls for offgrid designs with lithium batteries >> I”m wondering what you all are doing to keep the batteries warm >> when it gets cold.  For some of you 0 F will seem mild, others >> super cold. >> > Doing a battery box and heating that or heating the whole >> inverter/battery shed? >> > I’m definitely not looking at batteries like battle born with >> the built in heaters. >> > Simpliphi, Discover, some of the newer server rack ones ( UL >> listed), etc.> >> > Thanks in advance >> > Jay >> -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Blue Planet Energy Insulated box.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 907975 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Sat Jul 23 15:23:23 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:23:23 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: References: <4BBD3198-A95B-4038-95AF-92F855A6D249@solareagle.com> Message-ID: <1d2cfb71-64c8-5378-9f29-3545d8160787@sindelarsolar.com> I have installed three of the Samlex EVO series in the last few years, all 24V units and all with Midnite E-Panels, and all have worked flawlessly. I've ordered all as preassembled units from Midnite. Allan On 7/20/2022 4:34 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: > The Samlex EVO4248SP is a potential substitute. The only system panel > is the MidNite E-panel. This is a 4.2 kW split phase inverter. > Brad > AEE Solar > -- > > *Allan Sindelar* > allan at sindelarsolar.com > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. > *505 780-2738 cell* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Sat Jul 23 17:33:16 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 21:33:16 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: <1d2cfb71-64c8-5378-9f29-3545d8160787@sindelarsolar.com> References: <4BBD3198-A95B-4038-95AF-92F855A6D249@solareagle.com> <1d2cfb71-64c8-5378-9f29-3545d8160787@sindelarsolar.com> Message-ID: We’ve ordered one to try since we cannot get the PAEs. I hope Magnum can resume shipping orders in the 38 weeks I was told! Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. On Jul 23, 2022, at 1:24 PM, Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:  I have installed three of the Samlex EVO series in the last few years, all 24V units and all with Midnite E-Panels, and all have worked flawlessly. I've ordered all as preassembled units from Midnite. Allan On 7/20/2022 4:34 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: The Samlex EVO4248SP is a potential substitute. The only system panel is the MidNite E-panel. This is a 4.2 kW split phase inverter. Brad AEE Solar -- Allan Sindelar allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allan at sindelarsolar.com Sat Jul 23 20:53:50 2022 From: allan at sindelarsolar.com (Allan Sindelar) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:53:50 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One caution, Jeremy. The EVOs that I used are only available in 120V input and output, and Magnum PAEs are split phase 120/240. Allan > On Jul 23, 2022, at 3:34 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  We’ve ordered one to try since we cannot get the PAEs. > I hope Magnum can resume shipping orders in the 38 weeks I was told! > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > >>> On Jul 23, 2022, at 1:24 PM, Sindelar Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>  I have installed three of the Samlex EVO series in the last few years, all 24V units and all with Midnite E-Panels, and all have worked flawlessly. I've ordered all as preassembled units from Midnite. >> Allan >> >>> On 7/20/2022 4:34 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> The Samlex EVO4248SP is a potential substitute. The only system panel is the MidNite E-panel. This is a 4.2 kW split phase inverter. >>> Brad >>> AEE Solar >> >>> -- >>> Allan Sindelar >>> allan at sindelarsolar.com >>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician >>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. >>> 505 780-2738 cell >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Mon Jul 25 14:07:17 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 12:07:17 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverter/generator integration problems In-Reply-To: <089b01d84396$2ce6aca0$86b405e0$@solarcentex.com> References: <089b01d84396$2ce6aca0$86b405e0$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: <00bf01d8a051$610285a0$230790e0$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks, I’m trying to help a fellow with two Magnum Systems; one of them will accept his Honda EG5000CL gen set, the other will not. After running for a bout 10~15 minutes the circuit breaker pops on the BMK. He will be rebooting his BMK this evening in the first attempt at getting his system back up. He has been powering this system with a Predator 3500w Gen set, along with his solar array. The system will not accept the Honda. Any ideas of clues to check out? Sincerely, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4321 www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 14:32:29 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 14:32:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverter/generator integration problems In-Reply-To: <00bf01d8a051$610285a0$230790e0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <089b01d84396$2ce6aca0$86b405e0$@solarcentex.com> <00bf01d8a051$610285a0$230790e0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Might sound simple, but I always start by verifying that the generator is NOT in Eco-mode and that it is correctly set to the desired voltage output (seems like in this case that would be 120/240VAC). If those check out, verify that the cord is properly made up and correctly seated in the unit. If all these things check out, monitor voltage and frequency for highs and lows. Cross reference with parameters set on inverter/charger. Kindly, Chris On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 2:08 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi folks, I’m trying to help a fellow with two Magnum Systems; one of them > will accept his Honda EG5000CL gen set, the other will not. > > After running for a bout 10~15 minutes the circuit breaker pops on the > BMK. He will be rebooting his BMK this evening in the first attempt at > getting his system back up. He has been powering this system with a > Predator 3500w Gen set, along with his solar array. > > The system will not accept the Honda. Any ideas of clues to check out? > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4321 > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Mon Jul 25 15:05:27 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 12:05:27 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverter/generator integration problems In-Reply-To: References: <089b01d84396$2ce6aca0$86b405e0$@solarcentex.com> <00bf01d8a051$610285a0$230790e0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Also check bonding and ground loops (e.g. genny neutral bonded and also bonded at main panel). This can cause voltage to bounce around and the inverter won't sync. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 at 11:32, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Might sound simple, but I always start by verifying that the generator is > NOT in Eco-mode and that it is correctly set to the desired voltage output > (seems like in this case that would be 120/240VAC). If those check out, > verify that the cord is properly made up and correctly seated in the unit. > If all these things check out, monitor voltage and frequency for highs and > lows. Cross reference with parameters set on inverter/charger. > > Kindly, > > Chris > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2022 at 2:08 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi folks, I’m trying to help a fellow with two Magnum Systems; one of >> them will accept his Honda EG5000CL gen set, the other will not. >> >> After running for a bout 10~15 minutes the circuit breaker pops on the >> BMK. He will be rebooting his BMK this evening in the first attempt at >> getting his system back up. He has been powering this system with a >> Predator 3500w Gen set, along with his solar array. >> >> The system will not accept the Honda. Any ideas of clues to check out? >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> >> Chris Daum >> >> Oasis Montana Inc. >> >> 406-777-4321 >> >> www.oasismontana.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com Mon Jul 25 15:29:21 2022 From: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com (Nick Soleil) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 19:29:21 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: HI Rick, The distance that our power line communications (PLC) signals travel will be impacted by the electrical noise on the site and the impedance of the wiring. I don't think we have published a max distance in any of our recent tech briefs or planning guides. That said, in some of our commercial design guides we had previously recommended up to 250 ft in a non-filtered environment and up to 600 ft when the IQ Gateway and microinverters are located on the load side of a power line filter or an isolation transformer (for example, on a dedicated 480V primary to 120/208V secondary transformer). Keep in mind that when the PLC signals are used for controlling the microinverters, such as sites that have power export limiting (PEL) profiles or when the microinverters are paired with IQ Storage systems, the communications must be more reliable than when used for monitoring alone. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of rick--- via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: rick at solshineenergy.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Wrenches, What is the furthest that anyone has placed their IQ-based system from the gateway? Enphase recommends up to 250’. We’ve done ~350’ without issue. Anyone gone further? Thanks in advance. rick brown SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC Electrical & Solar Contracting Services https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.SolShineEnergy.com__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3ylgVpW-A$ O: 540.235.3095 M: 540.808.9502 VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xVTL1p4g$ List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3zLF7HgKw$ There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yjYyCFjg$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xTOuecWw$ List rules & etiquette: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yK4wJwGw$ Check out or update participant bios: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.members.re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3wreX-7AQ$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 19:16:18 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 17:16:18 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverter/generator integration problems In-Reply-To: <00bf01d8a051$610285a0$230790e0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <00bf01d8a051$610285a0$230790e0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <02BCD88E-E7BF-4AA2-A9B0-3A9C1BF8C638@gmail.com> Hi Chris. I’m a bit confused about the breaker on the BMK. That’s the battery monitor? No breakers. If you mean the inverter, then check that both legs are working. I’ve had a similar issue in the past that turned out to be a bad 240v breaker. 1 side didn’t work, but because of how the magnum works if you check volts it will read right. Have to check with clamp on for current The inverter overloads with 120v input, and yeah takes about 10-15 minutes. Might give it a check. Jay > On Jul 25, 2022, at 12:08 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi folks, I’m trying to help a fellow with two Magnum Systems; one of them will accept his Honda EG5000CL gen set, the other will not. > After running for a bout 10~15 minutes the circuit breaker pops on the BMK. He will be rebooting his BMK this evening in the first attempt at getting his system back up. He has been powering this system with a Predator 3500w Gen set, along with his solar array. > The system will not accept the Honda. Any ideas of clues to check out? > > Sincerely, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4321 > www.oasismontana.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Mon Jul 25 23:08:02 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 21:08:02 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know your specific circumstance but the cellular modem option works really well for monitoring only. There are also many point to point networking systems that are solid and fairly easy to set up if you can do line of sight. Thanks! On Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 1:29 PM Nick Soleil via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI Rick, > > The distance that our power line communications (PLC) signals travel will > be impacted by the electrical noise on the site and the impedance of the > wiring. I don't think we have published a max distance in any of our > recent tech briefs or planning guides. That said, in some of our > commercial design guides we had previously recommended up to 250 ft in a > non-filtered environment and up to 600 ft when the IQ Gateway and > microinverters are located on the load side of a power line filter or an > isolation transformer (for example, on a dedicated 480V primary to 120/208V > secondary transformer). > > Keep in mind that when the PLC signals are used for controlling the > microinverters, such as sites that have power export limiting (PEL) > profiles or when the microinverters are paired with IQ Storage systems, the > communications must be more reliable than when used for monitoring alone. > > Cordially, > > Nick Soleil > > Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager > > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > > (707) 321-2937 // cell > > *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System > > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of rick--- via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:53 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* rick at solshineenergy.com > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance > > EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading > attachments. > > > > > > Wrenches, > > What is the furthest that anyone has placed their IQ-based system from the > gateway? Enphase recommends up to 250’. We’ve done ~350’ without issue. > Anyone gone further? > > Thanks in advance. > > rick brown > SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC > Electrical & Solar Contracting Services > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.SolShineEnergy.com__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3ylgVpW-A$ > O: 540.235.3095 > M: 540.808.9502 > > VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 > VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 > VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xVTL1p4g$ > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3zLF7HgKw$ > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yjYyCFjg$ > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xTOuecWw$ > > List rules & etiquette: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yK4wJwGw$ > > Check out or update participant bios: > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.members.re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3wreX-7AQ$ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at solshineenergy.com Tue Jul 26 08:07:20 2022 From: rick at solshineenergy.com (rick at solshineenergy.com) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 08:07:20 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mac, I was referring to the PLC between micros and gateway, not gateway and local router. > On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:08 PM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I don't know your specific circumstance but the cellular modem option works really well for monitoring only. There are also many point to point networking systems that are solid and fairly easy to set up if you can do line of sight. > > Thanks! > > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 1:29 PM Nick Soleil via RE-wrenches > wrote: > HI Rick, > > The distance that our power line communications (PLC) signals travel will be impacted by the electrical noise on the site and the impedance of the wiring. I don't think we have published a max distance in any of our recent tech briefs or planning guides. That said, in some of our commercial design guides we had previously recommended up to 250 ft in a non-filtered environment and up to 600 ft when the IQ Gateway and microinverters are located on the load side of a power line filter or an isolation transformer (for example, on a dedicated 480V primary to 120/208V secondary transformer). > > Keep in mind that when the PLC signals are used for controlling the microinverters, such as sites that have power export limiting (PEL) profiles or when the microinverters are paired with IQ Storage systems, the communications must be more reliable than when used for monitoring alone. > > Cordially, > Nick Soleil > Enphase Energy > Senior Product Manager > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > (707) 321-2937 // cell > Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > From: RE-wrenches > on behalf of rick--- via RE-wrenches > > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:53 PM > To: RE-wrenches > > Cc: rick at solshineenergy.com > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance > > EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. > > > > > > Wrenches, > > What is the furthest that anyone has placed their IQ-based system from the gateway? Enphase recommends up to 250’. We’ve done ~350’ without issue. Anyone gone further? > > Thanks in advance. > > rick brown > SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC > Electrical & Solar Contracting Services > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.SolShineEnergy.com__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3ylgVpW-A$ > O: 540.235.3095 > M: 540.808.9502 > > VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 > VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 > VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xVTL1p4g$ > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3zLF7HgKw$ > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yjYyCFjg$ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xTOuecWw$ > > List rules & etiquette: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yK4wJwGw$ > > Check out or update participant bios: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.members.re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3wreX-7AQ$ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > rick brown SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC Electrical & Solar Contracting Services www.SolShineEnergy.com Roanoke, VA Office: 540.235.3095 Mobile: 540.808.9502 VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solshine-01-18-17 copy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10151 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 08:36:25 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 06:36:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Right, but maybe you can locate the gateway near the array? Cheers On Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 6:07 AM rick--- via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Mac, > > I was referring to the PLC between micros and gateway, not gateway and > local router. > > > > On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:08 PM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I don't know your specific circumstance but the cellular modem option > works really well for monitoring only. There are also many point to point > networking systems that are solid and fairly easy to set up if you can do > line of sight. > > Thanks! > > > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 1:29 PM Nick Soleil via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> HI Rick, >> >> The distance that our power line communications (PLC) signals travel will >> be impacted by the electrical noise on the site and the impedance of the >> wiring. I don't think we have published a max distance in any of our >> recent tech briefs or planning guides. That said, in some of our >> commercial design guides we had previously recommended up to 250 ft in a >> non-filtered environment and up to 600 ft when the IQ Gateway and >> microinverters are located on the load side of a power line filter or an >> isolation transformer (for example, on a dedicated 480V primary to 120/208V >> secondary transformer). >> >> Keep in mind that when the PLC signals are used for controlling the >> microinverters, such as sites that have power export limiting (PEL) >> profiles or when the microinverters are paired with IQ Storage systems, the >> communications must be more reliable than when used for monitoring alone. >> >> Cordially, >> Nick Soleil >> Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager >> (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office >> (707) 321-2937 // cell >> *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System >> >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 >> California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* RE-wrenches on >> behalf of rick--- via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:53 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* rick at solshineenergy.com >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase Max Distance >> >> EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or >> downloading attachments. >> >> >> >> >> >> Wrenches, >> >> What is the furthest that anyone has placed their IQ-based system from >> the gateway? Enphase recommends up to 250’. We’ve done ~350’ without issue. >> Anyone gone further? >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> rick brown >> SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC >> Electrical & Solar Contracting Services >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.SolShineEnergy.com__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3ylgVpW-A$ >> O: 540.235.3095 >> M: 540.808.9502 >> >> VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 >> VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 >> VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xVTL1p4g$ >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3zLF7HgKw$ >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yjYyCFjg$ >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3xTOuecWw$ >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3yK4wJwGw$ >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.members.re-wrenches.org__;!!J0D89H32QIeNiQ!y2FyO_IVyHmKDxdB5GFdDdcdA_ytLdUN9Rc-Ii5yhMzfmUi_g7ZFJRpCD_Ky5QSqJreyrb2vIVhvV_Fqh9xtjzPVb3wreX-7AQ$ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > rick brown > SolShine Energy Alternatives, LLC > Electrical & Solar Contracting Services > www.SolShineEnergy.com > Roanoke, VA > Office: 540.235.3095 > Mobile: 540.808.9502 > > VA Class A Contractor Lic# 2705147660 > VA Master Electrician Lic# 2710062762 > VA Alternative Energy Systems Installer > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 110112-21 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solshine-01-18-17 copy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10151 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: solshine-01-18-17 copy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10151 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 21:58:33 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:58:33 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Starting Simpliphi PHI3.5 batteries Message-ID: Hi All, I was called into a job of a previously off-grid system that new owners had an electrician bring the grid to, but the batteries ( a pair of Simpliphi 3.5, which I have no experience with) have been dead for an unknown period of time previously. I am trying to figure out the easiest way to restart the system which has a VFX 3648 and FM60. I'm thinking the easiest way is to bring in a 48volt charger to get the battery voltage up high enough to start the FM60 and/or VFX, but that means purchasing a 48 volt charger, since I don't have any Iotas sitting around any more. If anyone has an easier way to restart the batteries I'd love to hear it. Thanks, Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wstahle at pacific.net Wed Jul 27 22:37:10 2022 From: wstahle at pacific.net (Wallace Stahle) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 19:37:10 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Starting Simpliphi PHI3.5 batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BAA6836-E93C-47A7-9621-3283BF4F6F6B@pacific.net> Hold off on that 48 volt charger Howie, I was called a while back with the same issue on a set of five of the same model battery. All shut off internally. Had the same inverter and CC too. I called Simpliphi which I recommend you do also and was told to turn off all inputs and outputs to battery, close the breaker on each unit individually and read the open circuit voltage. If 24 v or above simply close the 3 breakers before engaging the inverter breaker as the capacitor inrush can fool the BMS of the battery and shut it off which I found out when I first shop charged the new batteries individually. If battery shuts down upon inverter connection then toggling the battery breaker again the inverter will connect and you charge with generator as the inverter can now function with the small amount of reserve power present. And/or the solar as conditions dictate. In my case one of the batteries was 23.7 V but still accepted a charge and have apparently functioned well for the customer. Job was installed by others. I hope that helps. Wallace Stahle Future Electric Energy Co PO Box 236 Willits, CA 95490 707-459-0474 Lic.#C10-762093 future at pacific.net > On Jul 27, 2022, at 6:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > I was called into a job of a previously off-grid system that new owners had an electrician bring the grid to, but the batteries ( a pair of Simpliphi 3.5, which I have no experience with) have been dead for an unknown period of time previously. I am trying to figure out the easiest way to restart the system which has a VFX 3648 and FM60. I'm thinking the easiest way is to bring in a 48volt charger to get the battery voltage up high enough to start the FM60 and/or VFX, but that means purchasing a 48 volt charger, since I don't have any Iotas sitting around any more. If anyone has an easier way to restart the batteries I'd love to hear it. > Thanks, > Howie > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > > Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 22:46:17 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 22:46:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Starting Simpliphi PHI3.5 batteries In-Reply-To: <9BAA6836-E93C-47A7-9621-3283BF4F6F6B@pacific.net> References: <9BAA6836-E93C-47A7-9621-3283BF4F6F6B@pacific.net> Message-ID: Thanks Wallace. I will return to the site and check the voltage again, but I believe when I read it it was in the teens. However, I did run into the in rush and shut down issue you mentioned the first time I tried restarting, but when I tried it again, the batteries didn't put anything out. I will talk with simpliphi and see if we can get things going. Howie On Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 10:38 PM Wallace Stahle via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hold off on that 48 volt charger Howie, > > I was called a while back with the same issue on a set of five of the same > model battery. All shut off internally. Had the same inverter and CC too. > I called Simpliphi which I recommend you do also and was told to turn off > all inputs and outputs to battery, close the breaker on each unit > individually and read the open circuit voltage. If 24 v or above simply > close the 3 breakers before engaging the inverter breaker as the capacitor > inrush can fool the BMS of the battery and shut it off which I found out > when I first shop charged the new batteries individually. If battery shuts > down upon inverter connection then toggling the battery breaker again the > inverter will connect and you charge with generator as the inverter can now > function with the small amount of reserve power present. And/or the solar > as conditions dictate. > > In my case one of the batteries was 23.7 V but still accepted a charge and > have apparently functioned well for the customer. Job was installed by > others. > > I hope that helps. > Wallace Stahle > Future Electric Energy Co > PO Box 236 > Willits, CA 95490 > 707-459-0474 > Lic.#C10-762093 > future at pacific.net > > On Jul 27, 2022, at 6:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > I was called into a job of a previously off-grid system that new owners > had an electrician bring the grid to, but the batteries ( a pair of > Simpliphi 3.5, which I have no experience with) have been dead for an > unknown period of time previously. I am trying to figure out the easiest > way to restart the system which has a VFX 3648 and FM60. I'm thinking the > easiest way is to bring in a 48volt charger to get the battery voltage up > high enough to start the FM60 and/or VFX, but that means purchasing a 48 > volt charger, since I don't have any Iotas sitting around any more. If > anyone has an easier way to restart the batteries I'd love to hear it. > Thanks, > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich at solartechvt.com Thu Jul 28 07:01:29 2022 From: rich at solartechvt.com (Rich Nicol) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 07:01:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Starting Simpliphi PHI3.5 batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C4DF57C-4512-49FD-A30E-EE88FBCBA21F@solartechvt.com> Hi Howie You may just need to cycle the breaker on the top of each battery to wake up after bms shuts down for low voltage. If truly a dark start is required your welcome to borrow my 48v Iota if it’s worth your drive time back and forth to Sutton. Rich (cell 802-535-6191) Sent from my iPad > On Jul 27, 2022, at 9:59 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi All, > I was called into a job of a previously off-grid system that new owners had an electrician bring the grid to, but the batteries ( a pair of Simpliphi 3.5, which I have no experience with) have been dead for an unknown period of time previously. I am trying to figure out the easiest way to restart the system which has a VFX 3648 and FM60. I'm thinking the easiest way is to bring in a 48volt charger to get the battery voltage up high enough to start the FM60 and/or VFX, but that means purchasing a 48 volt charger, since I don't have any Iotas sitting around any more. If anyone has an easier way to restart the batteries I'd love to hear it. > Thanks, > Howie > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > > Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Jul 28 13:15:00 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 11:15:00 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 10 & 15 KW LPG generators Message-ID: <001901d8a2a5$927033c0$b7509b40$@solarwork.com> Hey All! I just got off the phone with the gen Manu. Tump & I have been in conversation with & they are hopeful that a 10 & 15 KW gaseous LPG gen will be available by the end of the year. UL Listing will NOT be on this unit immediately & they are still in consideration of the expense VS the # of unit that would require the UL listing. We did come up with a final count of 83 unit per year, thank you all for your responses Here is the wish list that Tump & I developed: 15 KW, UL listed, 1800 RPM, water cooled gen., 2 wire start. * Easy oil filter access & drain with hose. * Option - for open unit or rodent proof outdoor housing. * Hour meter. * Option - critical muffler. * Single point lift hook * Electronic ignition * LP gas * 1800 rpm * Water-cooled * Option - Either oil pan & or carb heater with timer or auto-controller. * UL or ETL listed * CA has its issues and yet other states do not have emissions standards possibly a CA model & other? * 2 wire start As we hear more I will pass along info. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Thu Jul 28 15:49:56 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 15:49:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Message-ID: Hi all, Does anyone have any experience with EG4 products? I am doing an off-grid consultation for someone who plans on getting EG4 inverter and lithium batteries. The equipment seems so cheap, yet appears to be somewhat legit. They do at least have UL1741 listing. But their 6500w inverter/charger also takes PV power directly and goes for $1250. And their 48V 100AH battery is only $1500. I am curious if anyone has used this stuff and if it is actually legit. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Thu Jul 28 17:21:11 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:21:11 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Starting Simpliphi PHI3.5 batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011501d8a2c7$f6139620$e23ac260$@mindspring.com> Howie 48 volt lithium battery charger. Signature solar sells one. Peter Giroux American Solar From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2022 9:59 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Howie Michaelson Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dark Starting Simpliphi PHI3.5 batteries Hi All, I was called into a job of a previously off-grid system that new owners had an electrician bring the grid to, but the batteries ( a pair of Simpliphi 3.5, which I have no experience with) have been dead for an unknown period of time previously. I am trying to figure out the easiest way to restart the system which has a VFX 3648 and FM60. I'm thinking the easiest way is to bring in a 48volt charger to get the battery voltage up high enough to start the FM60 and/or VFX, but that means purchasing a 48 volt charger, since I don't have any Iotas sitting around any more. If anyone has an easier way to restart the batteries I'd love to hear it. Thanks, Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD0003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Thu Jul 28 17:21:45 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 14:21:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <318F22B5-8FEE-4DF7-B6D4-8646B304BF6A@gmail.com> Check out YouTube videos by Will Prowse. He’s used them and taken them apart. It would be better if any wrenches have used them though Brad Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 28, 2022, at 12:49 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > > Does anyone have any experience with EG4 products? I am doing an off-grid consultation for someone who plans on getting EG4 inverter and lithium batteries. The equipment seems so cheap, yet appears to be somewhat legit. They do at least have UL1741 listing. But their 6500w inverter/charger also takes PV power directly and goes for $1250. And their 48V 100AH battery is only $1500. I am curious if anyone has used this stuff and if it is actually legit. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Thu Jul 28 16:39:21 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 14:39:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005001d8a2c2$1e90a260$5bb1e720$@solarwork.com> My first question is: are you willing to get blamed for his selection of the equipment ? Beware being the first kid on the block with the shiny new toy. Just saying how many times have we all been guinea pigged? The equipment looks like it is rack mounted audio gear. Not a bad thing possibly. 6500 watts at 120v? Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 1:50 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Dave Tedeyan Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Hi all, Does anyone have any experience with EG4 products? I am doing an off-grid consultation for someone who plans on getting EG4 inverter and lithium batteries. The equipment seems so cheap, yet appears to be somewhat legit. They do at least have UL1741 listing. But their 6500w inverter/charger also takes PV power directly and goes for $1250. And their 48V 100AH battery is only $1500. I am curious if anyone has used this stuff and if it is actually legit. Cheers, Dave -- Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Thu Jul 28 21:12:43 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 18:12:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] EG4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <72604F5A-3D28-449C-A44D-DAA72F46762F@villagepowerdesign.com> Hi All Yes I’ve been working with EG4s for some time now. I installed 30 (154KWH) on 4 Sunny Island’s in Feb and that system has been working flawlessly. I’ve also done a 4 (20.5KWWH) battery system and a 6 battery (30.7 kWH) on single SOl-ARKs. And I’ve consulted in amd been monitoring some multi Solark systems. All work great. I visited the factory in Texas for a few days and helped them think about designing a rack with built in OCP. I’m friendly with James Showalter the CEO and met amd worked with the tech department. . I offered to help rewrite their battery manual but then couldn’t find the time though I am providing input. Their published recommended settings for Absorb and float are a bit too high. ( they just copy from the Chinese manufacturer) but on the SI system it would force the BMS into overvoltage cutoff every cycle. No harm is done as the bms protects each time but I found that setting absorb to 55.8 (with absorb time set to 1-3 hours depending on ratio of PV to KWH) and float to 53.8 works well. I’ve found there is no reason to push LFPs past 14 v (56v) for any reason. And no reason to float much past 13.4 (54) LFPs are happiest between 15% and 95% charge (hence the 80% useable). Pushing them to 100% every time is non productive amd can lesson lifetime. Also I came on strong at first insisting like Will Prowess and many others that it was essential to keep battery cable lengths the same for all parallels batts amd racks. However bench testing and real world testing has shown otherwise which can translate to hundreds of dollars in saved copper. The BMS’s compensate for slight resistance differences. I find that individual paralleled 48V batteries may vary as much as 5-10% in SOC during any one point on a cycle but the ones showing lower at the top end of the cycle quickly make up for it at the lower end of the cycle. So in any one cycle every battery cycles between the same values even if some are pulling the weight at the higher SOCs - the others will then catch up due to the BMSs doing their thing. In fact we saw no correlation with battery cable length as differences in cell manufacture and perhaps temperature outweighed any effect causes by unequal cable lengths. ( like 3-4 feet more on 2/0 used for paralleled racks) I’ve also discovered you can monitor 14, 28, 42 batteries if you’ld like by running their battery software on multiple ports connected to multiple screens (running the same program on two different ports of a pc) so up to 14 batts per port. I then use remote viewer software to view the dedicated laptop I leave at each job. If you parallel more than one rack you should be providing OCP between racks and the bus bar you provide. I’ve been using Victron fused bus bar systems but they are expensive. Hence why I’m working with Signature Solar to provide OCP per rack. I find James amd the folks at Signature Solar to be great folks with a great vision amd devotion to bring the price of solar eat down while providing quality. That said I have yet to take the leap to the EG4 inverters (or any of the super cheap Chinese all-in-ones like MPP) I might try one in an RV but for now am sticking with SolArks. That said there are many companies working to bring the quality of the DIY all-in-ones up to speed. I’ve also installed StorzPower (Sol Arks with flashed ROM) and they are working on their own inverter to meet the need as well. I’ve been enjoying watching the original Hippy Tech meets Prepper tech meets DIY tech. Soon I think the right quality/ price point will be reached amd we’ll all be installing much less expensive systems. Sol Ark and SMA take note! Bit it’s up to us installers to make sure that quality is up to snuff. I ding the sever rack batteries (EG4, StorzPower,SOK,Jakiper, etc to be quality and reliable. They all use the same prismatic cells. Fortress, SimpliPhi, Discover take note! Less than $300/KWH is here on batts. Less than .50/watt or even lower on high surge -off grid capable all-in-one inverters is fast on its heels! Best, Jeff Clearwater CA license “#852360 C-46, C-10 Village Power Design 413-559-9763 Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 28, 2022, at 12:50 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi all, > > Does anyone have any experience with EG4 products? I am doing an off-grid consultation for someone who plans on getting EG4 inverter and lithium batteries. The equipment seems so cheap, yet appears to be somewhat legit. They do at least have UL1741 listing. But their 6500w inverter/charger also takes PV power directly and goes for $1250. And their 48V 100AH battery is only $1500. I am curious if anyone has used this stuff and if it is actually legit. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tom at solar-biz.com Fri Jul 29 17:19:15 2022 From: Tom at solar-biz.com (Tom Duffy) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 21:19:15 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters In-Reply-To: <4BBD3198-A95B-4038-95AF-92F855A6D249@solareagle.com> References: <4BBD3198-A95B-4038-95AF-92F855A6D249@solareagle.com> Message-ID: Magnum has told us 24 weeks lead time Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer As the world focuses on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and every day Americans start feeling the impacts of this conflict, there is growing consensus that we can no longer rely on foreign adversaries for our energy needs. If we want to diversify our energy sources and reinforce American energy independence, encouraging solar and storage deployment and investing in domestic manufacturing is the best opportunity we have to double down on clean, and reliable energy. Congress is considering federal budget legislation that invests in clean energy and makes a major dent in President Biden's decarbonization goals. While this is an important opportunity to create jobs and expand solar accessibility, it's also an opportunity to eliminate U.S. reliance on energy from countries that do not align with our national interests. [cid:image001.png at 01D8A366.F11F4660] tom at solar-biz.com MAIN TOLL FREE: 888-826-0939 DIRECT: 888-503-6772 International: 001-575-539-2111 PANAMA: 507-836-5588 X 122 FAX: 520-844-8442 www.thesolarbiz.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files contain information intended for the exclusive use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is proprietary, privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL TRANSMISSION IS CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any viewing, copying, disclosure or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited and may be subject to legal restriction or sanction. Please notify the sender immediately by electronic mail of any unintended recipients and delete the original message without making any copies. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Ron Young via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 3:26 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Ron Young Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Inverters I have been waiting literally months for delivery of 4024 and 4448 PAE inverters both this year and 2021. It seems Magnum has dropped through the cracks in the floorboards. My supplier, the largest in Canada, has no idea of future shipments, they just show up without advance notice. I think Magnum is in trouble. Ron Young earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com On Jul 20, 2022, at 8:08 AM, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi Jeremy, Check with Zonna Energy in PA. I use them for almost all of my off-grid equipment now and have been very happy with the service and pricing. They normally stock Magnum equipment but I have not checked on inverters in a while. Luke Christy 719-588-3044 sgsrenewables at gmail.com On Jul 20, 2022, at 5:29 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches > wrote: Does anyone have a source these days for Magnum Energy Inverters? Contact me off list if needed. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 14016 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat Jul 30 12:30:21 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:30:21 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility Message-ID: All, Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system? Advantages vs. pitfalls? In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional DC charge controllers for the new array. Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Jul 30 12:57:46 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:57:46 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kirk, I have not done this personally, and this does not pertain to your specific situation, but related to this subject is the Sol-Ark 15k has a massive AC coupling capability even with maximum DC connected PV. I really like this idea for people that want a huge PV array but only need the continuous AC output of a single inverter. You lose some redundancy compared to dual inverters, but this could be a cost effective strategy. Mixing DC and AC coupling does have its advantages. Jason Szumlanski On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 12:31 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > All, > Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system? > Advantages vs. pitfalls? > > In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter > AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy > now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. > > I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of > pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This > system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. > > This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional DC > charge controllers for the new array. > Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality > charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 15:29:28 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 15:29:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Kirk, This is something I've done a few times with success, although I've used an XW pro instead of the Radian, with OB charge controllers. Having the mix of DC and AC coupled is ideal, as the solaredge will do the bulk of the charging, but then charge controllers will do the finish taper charge instead of a relay switching the solaredge on and off (which as far as I know, solaredge removed frequency shifting for tapering the finish charge several years ago). It is also helpful in cases where the inverter shuts down on low voltage, as the DC coupled array will bring the battery voltage up enough to allow the inverter to turn on and start the solaredge again. >From my point of view, the combination of AC and DC coupling is the ideal off grid scenario. Howie On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 12:31 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > All, > Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system? > Advantages vs. pitfalls? > > In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter > AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy > now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. > > I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of > pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This > system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. > > This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional DC > charge controllers for the new array. > Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality > charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 15:58:02 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:58:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Its not clear to me if you will actually have a DC side coupled connection in talking about the pole mount. If so then it does work but if not then no, the big question is how would you restart the inverter to restart the SE to start the charging process on the AC side, answer, you can't in most cases. Example, SMA SI coupled with SMA 4K's, you have a dead battery, you need to bring up the VDC to wake up the inverter to wake up and count down the 4K's the trick here is to alter programming to instant start the 4K upon getting VAC and hertz instead of the 300 sec count down. Something else, LFP does not relax and get any parasitic voltage back to even start the SI so changing the timers may still not work. Best bet is to have at least some DC side PV to charge a dead battery without the inverters at all. I did ac coupling with Trace and SMA 20 plus years ago and SMA said then it was not possible. How the world has changed. fun times! On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 9:31 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > All, > Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system? > Advantages vs. pitfalls? > > In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter > AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy > now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. > > I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of > pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This > system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. > > This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional DC > charge controllers for the new array. > Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality > charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat Jul 30 16:36:43 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 16:36:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jerry- The pole mount does not exist for a few more weeks, so I have time to think about DC or AC coupling for it only. To clarify, the old roof 1.8 kw array is functional and has been charging the new blue ions through an old Outback pre-hub 60A controller(replacing it soon with a new FM60). So I do have existing dc-coupling already to get around dark start issues for the most part. Right now I'm starting to lean towards 100% DC coupling, hooking the new pole-mount array to an OB FM100 300vdc max 100A charge controller *IF* I can find one in time. At least then I can see everything on one dashboard (OpticsRE). Both Mate3s and hub 10.3 are already installed. One of the other things influencing my decision is the request from my customer to have it "grid-ready", which to them means the house is easier to sell when the time comes, if the buyer wants to bring in the grid power. I won't go into it, but it is a simpler solution (in terms of local hardware requirements) to AC-couple the new array with these utility rules in mind. So there is no fits-all solution to AC vs. DC coupling, as someone said. On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 3:58 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Its not clear to me if you will actually have a DC side coupled connection > in talking about the pole mount. If so then it does work but if not then > no, the big question is how would you restart the inverter to restart the > SE to start the charging process on the AC side, answer, you can't in most > cases. Example, SMA SI coupled with SMA 4K's, you have a dead battery, you > need to bring up the VDC to wake up the inverter to wake up and count down > the 4K's the trick here is to alter programming to instant start the 4K > upon getting VAC and hertz instead of the 300 sec count down. Something > else, LFP does not relax and get any parasitic voltage back to even start > the SI so changing the timers may still not work. Best bet is to have at > least some DC side PV to charge a dead battery without the inverters at > all. I did ac coupling with Trace and SMA 20 plus years ago and SMA said > then it was not possible. How the world has changed. fun times! > > On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 9:31 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> All, >> Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system? >> Advantages vs. pitfalls? >> >> In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter >> AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy >> now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. >> >> I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of >> pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This >> system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. >> >> This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional >> DC charge controllers for the new array. >> Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality >> charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 18:00:08 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 15:00:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An all DC side charging is preferred and will have the simplest charging system. Flex net DC shunts, easy to monitor. Last l heard FM 100 were pushed out till late in the year Fun times On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 1:37 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jerry- > The pole mount does not exist for a few more weeks, so I have time to > think about DC or AC coupling for it only. To clarify, the old roof 1.8 kw > array is functional and has been charging the new blue ions through an old > Outback pre-hub 60A controller(replacing it soon with a new FM60). So I do > have existing dc-coupling already to get around dark start issues for the > most part. > > Right now I'm starting to lean towards 100% DC coupling, hooking the new > pole-mount array to an OB FM100 300vdc max 100A charge controller *IF* I > can find one in time. At least then I can see everything on one dashboard > (OpticsRE). Both Mate3s and hub 10.3 are already installed. > > One of the other things influencing my decision is the request from my > customer to have it "grid-ready", which to them means the house is easier > to sell when the time comes, if the buyer wants to bring in the grid power. > I won't go into it, but it is a simpler solution (in terms of local > hardware requirements) to AC-couple the new array with these utility rules > in mind. > > So there is no fits-all solution to AC vs. DC coupling, as someone said. > > On Sat, Jul 30, 2022 at 3:58 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Its not clear to me if you will actually have a DC side coupled >> connection in talking about the pole mount. If so then it does work but if >> not then no, the big question is how would you restart the inverter to >> restart the SE to start the charging process on the AC side, answer, you >> can't in most cases. Example, SMA SI coupled with SMA 4K's, you have a dead >> battery, you need to bring up the VDC to wake up the inverter to wake up >> and count down the 4K's the trick here is to alter programming to instant >> start the 4K upon getting VAC and hertz instead of the 300 sec count down. >> Something else, LFP does not relax and get any parasitic voltage back to >> even start the SI so changing the timers may still not work. Best bet is to >> have at least some DC side PV to charge a dead battery without the >> inverters at all. I did ac coupling with Trace and SMA 20 plus years ago >> and SMA said then it was not possible. How the world has changed. fun times! >> >> On Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 9:31 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> All, >>> Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid >>> system? Advantages vs. pitfalls? >>> >>> In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter >>> AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy >>> now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. >>> >>> I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of >>> pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This >>> system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. >>> >>> This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional >>> DC charge controllers for the new array. >>> Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality >>> charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>> >>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>> >>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>> >>> *www.vermont.solar* >>> >>> >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Sun Jul 31 12:07:50 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 12:07:50 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f9f5a984e7c1e31a264fc575ac06887@redwoodalliance.org> Yes, we have a system with AC and DC coupled arrays on an off-grid system. Having DC coupled capacity is important for reasons given in other posts. We used AC coupling due to shade issues, so we could use Enphase inverters. In your case, if the house really is going to go on grid, I would think AC coupling makes sense. If not, I'd use high voltage DC charge controllers (like the Schneider 600 V units) and keep it DC. The main complaint I have with AC coupling off grid is that some lights tent to strobe in certain charging conditions. Another complaint is the 5 minute delay period after the micro-inverters shut down. The micros are phased, based on battery voltage, so they don't all shut down at once. Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 CO Master Electrician's License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-07-30 12:30, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > All, > Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system? Advantages vs. pitfalls? > > In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. > > I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. > > This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional DC charge controllers for the new array. > Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. > -- > > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > > _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ > > www.vermont.solar [1] > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645&sdata=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sun Jul 31 12:25:22 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 10:25:22 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] off-grid AC coupling feasibility In-Reply-To: <8f9f5a984e7c1e31a264fc575ac06887@redwoodalliance.org> References: <8f9f5a984e7c1e31a264fc575ac06887@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <7A74AFD5-CE51-49A9-9B3B-4C841DC0DA77@gmail.com> I also worry about getting the system to 64 hz. That is hard on motors and might be the cause of the Light pulsing you’re seeing drake. Jay > On Jul 31, 2022, at 10:08 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Yes, we have a system with AC and DC coupled arrays on an off-grid system. Having DC coupled capacity is important for reasons given in other posts. > > We used AC coupling due to shade issues, so we could use Enphase inverters. > > In your case, if the house really is going to go on grid, I would think AC coupling makes sense. If not, I'd use high voltage DC charge controllers (like the Schneider 600 V units) and keep it DC. > > The main complaint I have with AC coupling off grid is that some lights tent to strobe in certain charging conditions. Another complaint is the 5 minute delay period after the micro-inverters shut down. The micros are phased, based on battery voltage, so they don't all shut down at once. > > > > Drake Chamberlin > > Athens Electric LLC > > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > > > > --- > > > >> On 2022-07-30 12:30, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> All, >> Anyone out there successfully AC-coupled inverters in an off-grid system? Advantages vs. pitfalls? >> >> In my case I'm thinking of its practicality with a Solaredge inverter AC-coupled to an OB Radian inverter. OB firmware makes this pretty easy now. So effectively the Radian is always operating in a grid-backup mode. >> >> I already upgraded the system to the Radian, and soon to add 5kw of pole-mounted PV(currently only 1.8kw of 22-year old PV on the roof). This system also just got 16kwh of Blue Ion LFP batteries. >> >> This is a last-minute thought I have instead of investing in additional DC charge controllers for the new array. >> Cost-wise there's not much of a difference between several high-quality charge controllers and a smaller SE inverter w/optimisers. Thanks. >> >> -- >> Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar >> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC >> Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! >> www.vermont.solar >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> 802.863.1202 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Aug 4 14:11:39 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 14:11:39 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase String Breaker Heating Up Message-ID: I have a commercial 208 volt job where four of 11 fully populated strings of IQ7A had breakers that were tripped as reported by the client. They were able to reset two of them. They also reported that the two they were not able to reset we're very hot. The other two were warm. By the time I got to the site, all four breakers had permanently failed. Once I got replacements, I was able to install them and they turned on without any faults. I gave it about 15 minutes and then put my infrared camera on it. To my surprise, the breaker immediately above two of the failed breakers and across from the other two failed breakers was clearly hot. I'm thinking this might have been the bad breaker all along causing the heat issue on the bus bar which made adjacent breakers fail. But this hot breaker did not fail. Does this seem like a plausible scenario, and if so, any ideas on what might have caused it? All of the breaker bolts were tight, but a couple were not torqued to spec. I just find it strange that one breaker that didn't fail would cause other adjacent breakers to heat up enough to fail. Flir image attached. This was after I replaced the four failed breakers. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FLIR_20220804_020317_199.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1256366 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 22:07:43 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:07:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase String Breaker Heating Up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason Is the installation designed for 208 as you have greater limitations then 240, so now replace the buss and all the breakers, after that run currents tests and see what you have. I had a 3 phase that the tin cam off the buss and looked like a plazma cutter due to the exposed aluminum Fun times On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 11:12 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have a commercial 208 volt job where four of 11 fully populated strings > of IQ7A had breakers that were tripped as reported by the client. They were > able to reset two of them. They also reported that the two they were not > able to reset we're very hot. The other two were warm. By the time I got > to the site, all four breakers had permanently failed. > > Once I got replacements, I was able to install them and they turned on > without any faults. I gave it about 15 minutes and then put my infrared > camera on it. To my surprise, the breaker immediately above two of the > failed breakers and across from the other two failed breakers was clearly > hot. I'm thinking this might have been the bad breaker all along causing > the heat issue on the bus bar which made adjacent breakers fail. But this > hot breaker did not fail. > > Does this seem like a plausible scenario, and if so, any ideas on what > might have caused it? All of the breaker bolts were tight, but a couple > were not torqued to spec. I just find it strange that one breaker that > didn't fail would cause other adjacent breakers to heat up enough to fail. > > Flir image attached. This was after I replaced the four failed breakers. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 22:33:34 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 20:33:34 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase String Breaker Heating Up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66FEDC4D-462E-4924-9B47-5C0DE9780659@gmail.com> Seems to me this has come up before. With bad breakers as probable cause. I don’t know if the heat has caused buss damage Might go for CH or QO breakers instead BR style. Jay > On Aug 4, 2022, at 8:08 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Jason > Is the installation designed for 208 as you have greater limitations then 240, so now replace the buss and all the breakers, after that run currents tests and see what you have. I had a 3 phase that the tin cam off the buss and looked like a plazma cutter due to the exposed aluminum > Fun times > >> On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 11:12 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >> I have a commercial 208 volt job where four of 11 fully populated strings of IQ7A had breakers that were tripped as reported by the client. They were able to reset two of them. They also reported that the two they were not able to reset we're very hot. The other two were warm. By the time I got to the site, all four breakers had permanently failed. >> >> Once I got replacements, I was able to install them and they turned on without any faults. I gave it about 15 minutes and then put my infrared camera on it. To my surprise, the breaker immediately above two of the failed breakers and across from the other two failed breakers was clearly hot. I'm thinking this might have been the bad breaker all along causing the heat issue on the bus bar which made adjacent breakers fail. But this hot breaker did not fail. >> >> Does this seem like a plausible scenario, and if so, any ideas on what might have caused it? All of the breaker bolts were tight, but a couple were not torqued to spec. I just find it strange that one breaker that didn't fail would cause other adjacent breakers to heat up enough to fail. >> >> Flir image attached. This was after I replaced the four failed breakers. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 23:11:27 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2022 22:11:27 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase String Breaker Heating Up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, breakers are thermal-magnetic the current heats the breaker; if the current is high enough for long enough, a solder pot inside melts; this current and excessive heat causes other breakers to open Are you sure the string current is less than 80% of the breaker rating and the wire connecting to the breaker is ampacity 120 percent of the current? I have seen several of these events when the cabinet is in the sun or in other hot locations. Also, excessive breakers in a panel board can cause heat build-up and premature breaker tripping. If a breaker trips from heat several times, the bus bar clip can soften or distort, this can damage the bus. I hope this has some value. On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 1:12 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have a commercial 208 volt job where four of 11 fully populated strings > of IQ7A had breakers that were tripped as reported by the client. They were > able to reset two of them. They also reported that the two they were not > able to reset we're very hot. The other two were warm. By the time I got > to the site, all four breakers had permanently failed. > > Once I got replacements, I was able to install them and they turned on > without any faults. I gave it about 15 minutes and then put my infrared > camera on it. To my surprise, the breaker immediately above two of the > failed breakers and across from the other two failed breakers was clearly > hot. I'm thinking this might have been the bad breaker all along causing > the heat issue on the bus bar which made adjacent breakers fail. But this > hot breaker did not fail. > > Does this seem like a plausible scenario, and if so, any ideas on what > might have caused it? All of the breaker bolts were tight, but a couple > were not torqued to spec. I just find it strange that one breaker that > didn't fail would cause other adjacent breakers to heat up enough to fail. > > Flir image attached. This was after I replaced the four failed breakers. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Aug 5 04:29:40 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 04:29:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase String Breaker Heating Up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did visually inspect the bus and it appears like new. The current was well under 16A on all circuits when tested at peak conditions. I'm certain the circuits are not overloaded (I cut and installed the trunk cable personally). This enclosure is not located in direct sunlight. When I first got the call I expected to see melted wire insulation and loose wires connections causing the tripped breakers. I was surprised to find the load side of the breakers absolutely perfect. There are no visual indicators as the the cause. I'm thinking the hot breaker in the IR image has been failing internally but never tripped, and that heated up the bus and surrounding breakers enough for them to trip and ultimately fail after multiple resets. I'll replace the remaining hot breaker and see if that solves the issue. Thanks for all of the ideas. Jason On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 11:11 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello, breakers are thermal-magnetic the current heats the breaker; if the > current is high enough for long enough, a solder pot inside melts; this > current and excessive heat causes other breakers to open Are you sure the > string current is less than 80% of the breaker rating and the wire > connecting to the breaker is ampacity 120 percent of the current? I have > seen several of these events when the cabinet is in the sun or in other hot > locations. Also, excessive breakers in a panel board can cause heat > build-up and premature breaker tripping. If a breaker trips from heat > several times, the bus bar clip can soften or distort, this can damage the > bus. > I hope this has some value. > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 1:12 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I have a commercial 208 volt job where four of 11 fully populated strings >> of IQ7A had breakers that were tripped as reported by the client. They were >> able to reset two of them. They also reported that the two they were not >> able to reset we're very hot. The other two were warm. By the time I got >> to the site, all four breakers had permanently failed. >> >> Once I got replacements, I was able to install them and they turned on >> without any faults. I gave it about 15 minutes and then put my infrared >> camera on it. To my surprise, the breaker immediately above two of the >> failed breakers and across from the other two failed breakers was clearly >> hot. I'm thinking this might have been the bad breaker all along causing >> the heat issue on the bus bar which made adjacent breakers fail. But this >> hot breaker did not fail. >> >> Does this seem like a plausible scenario, and if so, any ideas on what >> might have caused it? All of the breaker bolts were tight, but a couple >> were not torqued to spec. I just find it strange that one breaker that >> didn't fail would cause other adjacent breakers to heat up enough to fail. >> >> Flir image attached. This was after I replaced the four failed breakers. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20220805-042554_Gallery.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 933905 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Aug 5 11:29:41 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 08:29:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Temp compensation Message-ID: Friends: I am curious if any of you change the temperature compensation values for charge systems in lead-acid battery systems to comply with a battery manufacturer’s specifications. Doing this would require that you drill down into the technical literature to find that value and then have inverter and charge control systems that allow you to make such a change. I looked carefully through the Outback FXR and Mate 3s literature and found no such setting in the standard values (millivolts per Degree C per cell or per string). I did find that Conext XW systems have that capability in the custom battery menus. I am not sure about all of the other inverter and charge control systems out there but if you use any of them it is worth checking. This has become an issue for me in a warranty claim and I am just curious what others are doing in this regard. This is also a heads-up to all of you that deal with lead acid to make sure you pick batteries that are compatible with your electronics, particularly VRLA batteries. Thanks in advance. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Fri Aug 5 12:18:37 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 11:18:37 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Temp compensation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8B73CCA2-4B01-43D2-B0E1-A473FFEAEECE@mavericksolar.com> I second what you are saying. Even for LiFePO4 batteries on Outback, I’d love to be able to the battery temperature (I.e. room temperature) via OpticsRE and also be able to edit the temp comp to zero. Of the handful of other brands that I use, most have this setting as a direct editable setting. I do edit the value for different brands, sometimes it is hard to find the exact number for each brand, but it improves SOC accuracy and Specific Gravity vs Voltage readings when properly programmed. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Aug 5, 2022, at 10:38 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Friends: > > I am curious if any of you change the temperature compensation values for charge systems in lead-acid battery systems to comply with a battery manufacturer’s specifications. Doing this would require that you drill down into the technical literature to find that value and then have inverter and charge control systems that allow you to make such a change. > > I looked carefully through the Outback FXR and Mate 3s literature and found no such setting in the standard values (millivolts per Degree C per cell or per string). I did find that Conext XW systems have that capability in the custom battery menus. I am not sure about all of the other inverter and charge control systems out there but if you use any of them it is worth checking. > > This has become an issue for me in a warranty claim and I am just curious what others are doing in this regard. This is also a heads-up to all of you that deal with lead acid to make sure you pick batteries that are compatible with your electronics, particularly VRLA batteries. > > Thanks in advance. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cheezemanrich at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 13:23:07 2022 From: cheezemanrich at gmail.com (Richard Scott) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 10:23:07 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase String Breaker Heating Up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check the breaker screw length and threads of the bus bar. I have seen where either the screw is just slightly too long and bottoms out or the threads don't go all the way down. This causes the screw to be able to pass the torque test but in reality it's not fully applying pressure to the breaker tab to the bus bar. Richard On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 1:30 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I did visually inspect the bus and it appears like new. The current was > well under 16A on all circuits when tested at peak conditions. I'm certain > the circuits are not overloaded (I cut and installed the trunk cable > personally). This enclosure is not located in direct sunlight. > > When I first got the call I expected to see melted wire insulation and > loose wires connections causing the tripped breakers. I was surprised to > find the load side of the breakers absolutely perfect. There are no visual > indicators as the the cause. I'm thinking the hot breaker in the IR image > has been failing internally but never tripped, and that heated up the bus > and surrounding breakers enough for them to trip and ultimately fail after > multiple resets. > > I'll replace the remaining hot breaker and see if that solves the issue. > > Thanks for all of the ideas. > > Jason > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2022, 11:11 PM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello, breakers are thermal-magnetic the current heats the breaker; if >> the current is high enough for long enough, a solder pot inside melts; this >> current and excessive heat causes other breakers to open Are you sure the >> string current is less than 80% of the breaker rating and the wire >> connecting to the breaker is ampacity 120 percent of the current? I have >> seen several of these events when the cabinet is in the sun or in other hot >> locations. Also, excessive breakers in a panel board can cause heat >> build-up and premature breaker tripping. If a breaker trips from heat >> several times, the bus bar clip can soften or distort, this can damage the >> bus. >> I hope this has some value. >> >> On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 1:12 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> I have a commercial 208 volt job where four of 11 fully populated >>> strings of IQ7A had breakers that were tripped as reported by the client. >>> They were able to reset two of them. They also reported that the two they >>> were not able to reset we're very hot. The other two were warm. By the >>> time I got to the site, all four breakers had permanently failed. >>> >>> Once I got replacements, I was able to install them and they turned on >>> without any faults. I gave it about 15 minutes and then put my infrared >>> camera on it. To my surprise, the breaker immediately above two of the >>> failed breakers and across from the other two failed breakers was clearly >>> hot. I'm thinking this might have been the bad breaker all along causing >>> the heat issue on the bus bar which made adjacent breakers fail. But this >>> hot breaker did not fail. >>> >>> Does this seem like a plausible scenario, and if so, any ideas on what >>> might have caused it? All of the breaker bolts were tight, but a couple >>> were not torqued to spec. I just find it strange that one breaker that >>> didn't fail would cause other adjacent breakers to heat up enough to fail. >>> >>> Flir image attached. This was after I replaced the four failed breakers. >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon Aug 8 16:27:08 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 16:27:08 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bifacial Modules Message-ID: <2e0246813930e2270025a0fcee44f31b@redwoodalliance.org> Are bifacial modules good products? Do they really perform as advertised? We have a potential project where they would be used on a white roof. Would that be an ideal situation? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 17:25:41 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:25:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bifacial Modules In-Reply-To: <2e0246813930e2270025a0fcee44f31b@redwoodalliance.org> References: <2e0246813930e2270025a0fcee44f31b@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Drake This is an interesting topic, Q, do bi-facials really work? A, it depends, Solution, low profile on a roof may not so much its all about reflectivity so higher off the ground(roof) the better. A parking lot canopy might see a measurable improvement if the parking lot is a light reflective color, dark not so much, single rows vs large arrays also better, further north from the equator can help, snow on the ground will help, bottom line is, it is a real hard number to qualify until you can compare your actual location, I sell them and state very clearly what ever you get is a bonus that's all. I know some many differ from this but telling someone they will get X% back is going to spell disaster, it will be a hard sell to tell the property owner that he must keep his panels and roof clean to gain any additional results. Fun Times On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 1:27 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Are bifacial modules good products? Do they really perform as > advertised? > > We have a potential project where they would be used on a white roof. > Would that be an ideal situation? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Aug 9 13:05:49 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 11:05:49 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 10 & 15KW LPG generators 1800 RPM & Water cooled Message-ID: <001f01d8ac12$468834f0$d3989ed0$@solarwork.com> Hey All, The process of requesting 10KW & 15KW LP gas generators is yielding fruit. Units could be available as soon as early November to the end of this year. The more orders the sooner they will push for earlier availability. These initial units ARE NOT UL Listed. Wildcat is going to work on the 15KW to get UL listed. TBD. The prices I was quoted look fair & from back in the day. Kandi has been great to work with & super helpful. The products they build look very high quality & robust. https://www.wildcatpowergen.com/ Kandi Roeser kandi.roeser at wildcatpowergen.com Here is the wish list that Tump & I developed & contact them to see what is currently avaable: 15 KW, UL listed, 1800 RPM, water cooled gen., 2 wire start. * Easy oil filter access & drain with hose. * Option - for open unit or rodent proof outdoor housing. * Hour meter. * Option - critical muffler. * Single point lift hook * Electronic ignition * LP gas * 1800 rpm * Water-cooled * Option - Either oil pan & or carb heater with timer or auto-controller. * UL or ETL listed * CA has its issues and yet other states do not have emissions standards possibly a CA model & other? * 2 wire start Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 9844 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dana at solarwork.com Tue Aug 9 18:53:30 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 16:53:30 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Todays Mindbender Message-ID: <004901d8ac42$d8aff9a0$8a0fece0$@solarwork.com> Hey All, I have gone around the barn several times with the electrician & the owner on this & come up with several ideas but none have managed to hit the mark. Ok for those of you in the low country there are people that can afford to, & do melt snow in driveways/walkways with electric mats at least for the first couple of years till they get tired of the power bills and stop melting snow with the electricity and resort to paying for snow removal or actually do it themselves. Un fortunately I cannot fast forward my client there. I have a client with 2 roofs that can hold 7KW of PV each. 14KW. The Goal is to support the house with grid tied PV & backup battery power, and address the large snowmelt & summer AC loads. This was not thought out in the beginning of the design & construction process so at this point it is an addon. Currently there is 1 - 400 A service & they are looking at a second 400A service. The second service would address snow melt in winter & AC in summer We are looking at a SolarEdge 11.6KW inverter with 20 KW of battery backup. There is a hot tub - electric, AC in the summer with 2 condensers, several refrigerators, etc.. The snow melt pulls 200 amps so it exceeds the 160 amps available on a 200 amp service. There is a 400 amp service on the house now. 200 amps x .8 = 160 amp for the house. They are looking at a second 400 amp service to handle the snow melt In the winter & the AC in the summer. I can down size 1 - 200Amp main to 150A and tie in the 11.6KW SE inverter GT feed OR install 2 - 7.6KW inverters to each of 2 - 200 A mains @ 40 A each on 1 meter, OR feed each meter the production of each 7KW array thru a 7.6 KW SE inverter. Short of an 800 amp meter/service & if possible I & the client would like to keep all 14 KW on the one meter & I say this because when they get tired of the cost of running the snow melt the full PV capacity could be directed at the house, hot tub, AC. If you have addressed this kind of out of control & have thoughts I would love to hear your thoughts & suggestions. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 21:44:29 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 21:44:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?Today=E2=80=99s_mindbender?= Message-ID: <0274D4D2-7F80-4564-8B9A-DEA672CD0C9C@gmail.com> I just had an off grid client have his cousin install an electric water heater and wonder why his system went down overnight on low battery. But that was just typical newbie off grid mission creep. You have a full on disaster there, right from the get go. A client with unrealistic expectations that require extraordinary departures from normal practice. I mean, driveway melt, hot tub, AC, multiple refrigerators, zero planning; it sounds like an elaborate joke. I have learned and relearned the great truth that the most important client is the one you turn away. That demanding, picky, unrealistic, clueless, careless deadbeat that will eat your time, money, and emotional energy. This is one where you walk away. If you somehow manage to install 14 kW and surmount the amperage/ service entrance problem (Mo’ amps, mo’ problems) I will bet the rent that this client will be perpetually dissatisfied. He will crash his battery bank in the first outage. Call the client. Say “I’m sorry, but I can’t figure out a way to make this work that satisfies my standards. I don’t think I can make you a satisfied client.” Move on, happy in the knowledge that you dodged a tactical nuclear weapon. Best of luck, H Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From toddcory at finestplanet.com Wed Aug 10 22:17:53 2022 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (Todd Cory) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 19:17:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] =?utf-8?q?Today=E2=80=99s_mindbender?= In-Reply-To: <0274D4D2-7F80-4564-8B9A-DEA672CD0C9C@gmail.com> References: <0274D4D2-7F80-4564-8B9A-DEA672CD0C9C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1828ab1a068.27c7.4317fda5bda71af373de9c45c94f08a7@finestplanet.com> I 100% agree. When I read the post about foolish, incredibly wasteful pv powered snow melting systems, I was happy I'm retired. Walking away from such nonsense is the only way I could sleep at night. Todd On August 10, 2022 6:44:43 PM Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches wrote: > I just had an off grid client have his cousin install an electric water > heater and wonder why his system went down overnight on low battery. But > that was just typical newbie off grid mission creep. > > You have a full on disaster there, right from the get go. A client with > unrealistic expectations that require extraordinary departures from normal > practice. > > I mean, driveway melt, hot tub, AC, multiple refrigerators, zero planning; > it sounds like an elaborate joke. > > I have learned and relearned the great truth that the most important client > is the one you turn away. That demanding, picky, unrealistic, clueless, > careless deadbeat that will eat your time, money, and emotional energy. > > This is one where you walk away. If you somehow manage to install 14 kW and > surmount the amperage/ service entrance problem (Mo’ amps, mo’ problems) I > will bet the rent that this client will be perpetually dissatisfied. He > will crash his battery bank in the first outage. > > Call the client. Say “I’m sorry, but I can’t figure out a way to make this > work that satisfies my standards. I don’t think I can make you a satisfied > client.” Move on, happy in the knowledge that you dodged a tactical nuclear > weapon. > > Best of luck, > > H > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Sent with AquaMail for Android https://www.mobisystems.com/aqua-mail From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Aug 10 23:00:16 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 22:00:16 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine In-Reply-To: <90CCAD13-D817-4D55-B828-0AA0BCB1C332@gmail.com> References: <90CCAD13-D817-4D55-B828-0AA0BCB1C332@gmail.com> Message-ID: <62959145-F6B0-41BD-8049-D1C75B1CE501@mavericksolar.com> Jay Have you (or any Wrench willing to share) installed SkyBox? If so, can you share your experience good or bad? Can you compare it to Sol-Ark? I’ve installed a half-dozen Sol-Arks but no SkyBox yet. I think I have a customer where SkyBox would be a good fit, but not enough personal data. Thanks in advance. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Jun 28, 2022, at 6:26 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Jeremy, > > Sol ark and Outback skybox. > Might be others. > > It might be tricky dealing with the wind machine w/o batteries. > > Jay > >> On Jun 28, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> We have a customer who has a legacy off grid system which includes a SWWP whisper 200. They now have utility power to the property and so they want to go straight grid tie and ditch the batteries and off grid system (even though it’s all in perfect working order). Anyone know of an inverter that we could use to accomplish this goal? >> >> Jeremy Coxon NABCEP >> Certified MWBE >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cadams at sunrocksolar.com Thu Aug 11 10:49:23 2022 From: cadams at sunrocksolar.com (Carl Adams) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 10:49:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8+ max continuous output Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I am having an issue with a utility submission. We are using the IQ8+ on the project. The SolarEdge Spec sheet shows 0.290 kW as max continuous output. The utility rejected this saying they are using 0.298 kW based on the CA energy commission rating. Looking for clarification or if anyone else has run into this issue. Here is the link to the SC commission rating With Kind Regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar 513.290.9072 (mobile) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Thu Aug 11 12:39:54 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 09:39:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine In-Reply-To: <62959145-F6B0-41BD-8049-D1C75B1CE501@mavericksolar.com> References: <90CCAD13-D817-4D55-B828-0AA0BCB1C332@gmail.com> <62959145-F6B0-41BD-8049-D1C75B1CE501@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: Skybox is discontinued and tech support is limited. There are still significant software issues with them that make them unreliable for battery back-up. We are in the process of replacing the 3 Skyboxes we wish we had never installed. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 at 20:00, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jay > > Have you (or any Wrench willing to share) installed SkyBox? If so, can you > share your experience good or bad? > > Can you compare it to Sol-Ark? I’ve installed a half-dozen Sol-Arks but no > SkyBox yet. I think I have a customer where SkyBox would be a good fit, but > not enough personal data. > Thanks in advance. > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Jun 28, 2022, at 6:26 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi Jeremy, > > Sol ark and Outback skybox. > Might be others. > > It might be tricky dealing with the wind machine w/o batteries. > > Jay > > On Jun 28, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > We have a customer who has a legacy off grid system which includes a SWWP > whisper 200. They now have utility power to the property and so they want > to go straight grid tie and ditch the batteries and off grid system (even > though it’s all in perfect working order). Anyone know of an inverter that > we could use to accomplish this goal? > > > Jeremy Coxon NABCEP > > Certified MWBE > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich at solartechvt.com Thu Aug 11 12:47:43 2022 From: rich at solartechvt.com (rich at solartechvt.com) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 12:47:43 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine In-Reply-To: References: <90CCAD13-D817-4D55-B828-0AA0BCB1C332@gmail.com> <62959145-F6B0-41BD-8049-D1C75B1CE501@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: <01ea01d8ada2$15151500$3f3f3f00$@solartechvt.com> Same disastrous experience here as well with the Skyboxes. We installed three – I now own them as I replaced them at my expense with another competing product. Worse solar product I dealt with in the last 15 years. From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2022 12:40 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Eric Smiley Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine Skybox is discontinued and tech support is limited. There are still significant software issues with them that make them unreliable for battery back-up. We are in the process of replacing the 3 Skyboxes we wish we had never installed. Image removed by sender. Eric Smiley, Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 T: 888.386.0116 VIRIDIANENERGY.CA Image removed by sender. On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 at 20:00, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote: Jay Have you (or any Wrench willing to share) installed SkyBox? If so, can you share your experience good or bad? Can you compare it to Sol-Ark? I’ve installed a half-dozen Sol-Arks but no SkyBox yet. I think I have a customer where SkyBox would be a good fit, but not enough personal data. Thanks in advance. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Jun 28, 2022, at 6:26 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi Jeremy, Sol ark and Outback skybox. Might be others. It might be tricky dealing with the wind machine w/o batteries. Jay On Jun 28, 2022, at 4:12 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches wrote: We have a customer who has a legacy off grid system which includes a SWWP whisper 200. They now have utility power to the property and so they want to go straight grid tie and ditch the batteries and off grid system (even though it’s all in perfect working order). Anyone know of an inverter that we could use to accomplish this goal? Jeremy Coxon NABCEP Certified MWBE Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Thu Aug 11 14:26:22 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 13:26:22 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Current Transformers (CTs) paralleled for multiple panel measure? Message-ID: <006b01d8adaf$dbfd9220$93f8b660$@solarcentex.com> Good day, We have a 400-amp meter can with no external disconnect; through the back of the meter can, the conductors go through wall to two inside 200-amp panels. We installed a Sol-Ark 15 (love it!) and had the included 320-amp CTs in the meter box but the utility has had change of heart and said nothing could go in there. A you know, the Solar-Ark can accept a pair of CTs to perform its "Limit to Home" functionality, but it can't accept two. We're considering paralleling the two separate pairs of CTs from each panel though an appropriate CT-wire sized connector to parallel the two L1 CTs and the two L2 CTs into single wire outputs that can land in the inputs of the Solar-Ark. There is little possibility of extending the wires of the existing meter can to a new disconnect before it goes inside. Thoughts? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Aug 11 14:50:53 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 14:50:53 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Current Transformers (CTs) paralleled for multiple panel measure? In-Reply-To: <006b01d8adaf$dbfd9220$93f8b660$@solarcentex.com> References: <006b01d8adaf$dbfd9220$93f8b660$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: It will work from a technical standpoint, but you have to check if the inverter can handle the current. Of course the current coming out of the CTS will be a fraction of the actual current but there is going to be a limit. We do it on Enphase systems all the time for consumption monitoring. Jason On Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:26 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good day, > > > > We have a 400-amp meter can with no external disconnect; through the back > of the meter can, the conductors go through wall to two inside 200-amp > panels. > > > > We installed a Sol-Ark 15 (love it!) and had the included 320-amp CTs in > the meter box but the utility has had change of heart and said nothing > could go in there. > > > > A you know, the Solar-Ark can accept a pair of CTs to perform its “Limit > to Home” functionality, but it can’t accept two. > > > > We’re considering paralleling the two separate pairs of CTs from each > panel though an appropriate CT-wire sized connector to parallel the two L1 > CTs and the two L2 CTs into single wire outputs that can land in the inputs > of the Solar-Ark. There is little possibility of extending the wires of the > existing meter can to a new disconnect before it goes inside. > > Thoughts? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Thu Aug 11 15:10:08 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2022 14:10:08 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Current Transformers (CTs) paralleled for multiple panel measure? In-Reply-To: References: <006b01d8adaf$dbfd9220$93f8b660$@solarcentex.com>, Message-ID: <754BEA05-BC47-8542-9F6E-52AAD03F9DED@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Aug 12 06:47:54 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 06:47:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? Message-ID: As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on this timing. Thanks. I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but need some tangible proof. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Aug 12 06:54:04 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 06:54:04 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a trusted source here in Florida that read the Senate Bill text and said it would be retroactive to 2022. The way I am handling it is telling people my prices will surely be more than 4% more in 2023. They would be shooting themselves in the foot by delaying their project. Jason On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 6:48 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes > the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year > 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on > this timing. Thanks. > > I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but > need some tangible proof. > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Aug 12 07:51:02 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 05:51:02 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7480DA08-ED61-4F56-B275-1A2B68B0EFFF@solarwork.com> PV mag .02 on solar tax credit https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/07/28/solar-investment-tax-credit-to-be-extended-10-years-at-30/ Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Aug 12, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > I have a trusted source here in Florida that read the Senate Bill text and said it would be retroactive to 2022. The way I am handling it is telling people my prices will surely be more than 4% more in 2023. They would be shooting themselves in the foot by delaying their project. > > Jason > > > >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 6:48 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: >> As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on this timing. Thanks. >> >> I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but need some tangible proof. >> >> -- >> Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar >> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC >> Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! >> www.vermont.solar >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Fri Aug 12 08:05:54 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 06:05:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Current Transformers (CTs) paralleled for multiple panel measure? In-Reply-To: <754BEA05-BC47-8542-9F6E-52AAD03F9DED@hxcore.ol> References: <006b01d8adaf$dbfd9220$93f8b660$@solarcentex.com> <754BEA05-BC47-8542-9F6E-52AAD03F9DED@hxcore.ol> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I asked Sol-Ark about this a while ago. The Sol-Ark cannot handle the increase in current on the pins of the CT input (even though it's quite small). However, my info could be out-dated. Maybe you could source a CT with 1/2 the output ratio and make it work? Let us know if you find a good solution. Thanks On Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 1:10 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I knew it was Enphase that told me this! > > Let me say publicly your tech support team is marvelous. Thanks for note. > > Howard "Scot" Arey > Owner, Solar CenTex > 254-300-1228 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Fri Aug 12 08:19:45 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 07:19:45 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Current Transformers (CTs) paralleled for multiple panel measure? In-Reply-To: References: <006b01d8adaf$dbfd9220$93f8b660$@solarcentex.com> <754BEA05-BC47-8542-9F6E-52AAD03F9DED@hxcore.ol>, Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Fri Aug 12 12:51:06 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 09:51:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine In-Reply-To: <01ea01d8ada2$15151500$3f3f3f00$@solartechvt.com> References: <90CCAD13-D817-4D55-B828-0AA0BCB1C332@gmail.com> <62959145-F6B0-41BD-8049-D1C75B1CE501@mavericksolar.com> <01ea01d8ada2$15151500$3f3f3f00$@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: Interesting timing on this Skybox subject. Over the last few weeks I’ve been getting requests for help from a local individual that has been experiencing a lot of problems with his integration of Skyboxes and a Fortress Evault. I am too overwhelmed with my own work to jump right in but still trying to help him out in a limited manner as I feel bad for his situation. Sounds like the two main issues he’s experiencing are lack of success updating firmware in the Skyboxes and related miscommunication with SOC between the components and the charge being terminated once the batteries only reach 30% SOC. Is it worth the effort of believing once a successful firmware update is completed that the associated problems will be remedied or would those of you experiencing Skybox problems recommend swapping out the inverters before any additional labor expenses are wasted? Seems like he is willing to go for the latter but I’d rather not doom a decent product to e-waste if it’s not necessary. I always avoided the Skybox myself due to their high idle consumption so other than an afternoon training I have no experience with this particular Outback offering. Enjoy your weekend, Nick > On Aug 11, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Rich Nicol via RE-wrenches wrote: > > > Same disastrous experience here as well with the Skyboxes. > We installed three – I now own them as I replaced them at my expense with another competing product. > Worse solar product I dealt with in the last 15 years. > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org ] On Behalf Of Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2022 12:40 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Eric Smiley > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine > > Skybox is discontinued and tech support is limited. There are still significant software issues with them that make them unreliable for battery back-up. We are in the process of replacing the 3 Skyboxes we wish we had never installed. > <~WRD000.jpg> > > Eric Smiley, Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 > T: 888.386.0116 > VIRIDIANENERGY.CA > <~WRD000.jpg> > > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 at 20:00, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> Jay >> >> Have you (or any Wrench willing to share) installed SkyBox? If so, can you share your experience good or bad? >> >> Can you compare it to Sol-Ark? I’ve installed a half-dozen Sol-Arks but no SkyBox yet. I think I have a customer where SkyBox would be a good fit, but not enough personal data. >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. >> • Solar Commander Remote Power >> • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection >> maverick at mavericksolar.com >> 512-460-9825 >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Aug 15 07:58:16 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:58:16 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine In-Reply-To: References: <90CCAD13-D817-4D55-B828-0AA0BCB1C332@gmail.com> <62959145-F6B0-41BD-8049-D1C75B1CE501@mavericksolar.com> <01ea01d8ada2$15151500$3f3f3f00$@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: The Skybox, I only have one installed, AC-coupled with a Solaredge 5kw inverter, it's been working fine for 9 mos, fingers crossed. But obviously I'm not using many of its touted features. Probably I'm dodging a bullet for that reason. On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 12:52 PM Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Interesting timing on this Skybox subject. Over the last few weeks I’ve > been getting requests for help from a local individual that has been > experiencing a lot of problems with his integration of Skyboxes and a > Fortress Evault. I am too overwhelmed with my own work to jump right in but > still trying to help him out in a limited manner as I feel bad for his > situation. Sounds like the two main issues he’s experiencing are lack of > success updating firmware in the Skyboxes and related miscommunication with > SOC between the components and the charge being terminated once the > batteries only reach 30% SOC. > > Is it worth the effort of believing once a successful firmware update is > completed that the associated problems will be remedied or would those of > you experiencing Skybox problems recommend swapping out the inverters > before any additional labor expenses are wasted? Seems like he is willing > to go for the latter but I’d rather not doom a decent product to e-waste if > it’s not necessary. I always avoided the Skybox myself due to their high > idle consumption so other than an afternoon training I have no experience > with this particular Outback offering. > > Enjoy your weekend, Nick > > > > On Aug 11, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Rich Nicol via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > Same disastrous experience here as well with the Skyboxes. > We installed three – I now own them as I replaced them at my expense with > another competing product. > Worse solar product I dealt with in the last 15 years. > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Eric Smiley > via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2022 12:40 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Eric Smiley > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] GT inverter for SWWP turbine > > Skybox is discontinued and tech support is limited. There are still > significant software issues with them that make them unreliable for battery > back-up. We are in the process of replacing the 3 Skyboxes we wish we had > never installed. > > <~WRD000.jpg> > > *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> > T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> > *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * > > *<~WRD000.jpg> * > > > On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 at 20:00, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Jay > > Have you (or any Wrench willing to share) installed SkyBox? If so, can you > share your experience good or bad? > > Can you compare it to Sol-Ark? I’ve installed a half-dozen Sol-Arks but no > SkyBox yet. I think I have a customer where SkyBox would be a good fit, but > not enough personal data. > Thanks in advance. > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 13:27:35 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:27:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Abandoned equipment Message-ID: <4B0C1A3D-B2A3-4291-A25D-49767CBFA40D@gmail.com> Hi All A question. Panels were shipped to me, and literally dropped off the truck, 6’. About 1/2 broken, others with probable unknown future issues. Company I bought from sent me another pallet no charge. It’s been 3 months and the stack of broken/damaged panels is still in my yard and no updates or expected closure to this even after many phone calls. My question is, at what point are they considered abandoned? Or there might be some other legal name. For me to dispose of and or give away the probably damaged but unbroken ones? Thanks Jay From august at luminalt.com Mon Aug 15 16:32:09 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:32:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? In-Reply-To: <7480DA08-ED61-4F56-B275-1A2B68B0EFFF@solarwork.com> References: <7480DA08-ED61-4F56-B275-1A2B68B0EFFF@solarwork.com> Message-ID: This SEIA link has a PDF fact sheet you can download with info: https://www.seia.org/research-resources/inflation-reduction-act-solar-energy-and-energy-storage-provisions-summary August Luminalt On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 4:51 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > PV mag .02 on solar tax credit > > > https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/07/28/solar-investment-tax-credit-to-be-extended-10-years-at-30/ > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Aug 12, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > I have a trusted source here in Florida that read the Senate Bill text and > said it would be retroactive to 2022. The way I am handling it is telling > people my prices will surely be more than 4% more in 2023. They would be > shooting themselves in the foot by delaying their project. > > Jason > > > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 6:48 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes >> the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year >> 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on >> this timing. Thanks. >> >> I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but >> need some tangible proof. >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Aug 15 17:03:37 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 17:03:37 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? In-Reply-To: References: <7480DA08-ED61-4F56-B275-1A2B68B0EFFF@solarwork.com> Message-ID: I'm confused about the standalone battery provision. Does that mean that batteries will not be eligible for a tax credit in 2022? Or does standalone mean something different than battery backup with solar? Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 4:32 PM August Goers via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This SEIA link has a PDF fact sheet you can download with info: > > > https://www.seia.org/research-resources/inflation-reduction-act-solar-energy-and-energy-storage-provisions-summary > > August > Luminalt > > > > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 4:51 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> PV mag .02 on solar tax credit >> >> >> https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/07/28/solar-investment-tax-credit-to-be-extended-10-years-at-30/ >> >> Dana Orzel >> C: 208.721.7003 >> E- dana at solarwork.com >> >> On Aug 12, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> I have a trusted source here in Florida that read the Senate Bill text >> and said it would be retroactive to 2022. The way I am handling it is >> telling people my prices will surely be more than 4% more in 2023. They >> would be shooting themselves in the foot by delaying their project. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 6:48 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes >>> the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year >>> 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on >>> this timing. Thanks. >>> >>> I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but >>> need some tangible proof. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>> >>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>> >>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>> >>> *www.vermont.solar* >>> >>> >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Mon Aug 15 18:24:21 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 15:24:21 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? In-Reply-To: References: <7480DA08-ED61-4F56-B275-1A2B68B0EFFF@solarwork.com> Message-ID: The way I read it is that standalone means energy storage without PV. So, the 30% credit for storage without PV won't be available until next year. PV paired storage (where storage is charged from solar) at 30% should qualify back to the beginning of 2022. On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 2:04 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I'm confused about the standalone battery provision. Does that mean that > batteries will not be eligible for a tax credit in 2022? Or does standalone > mean something different than battery backup with solar? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 4:32 PM August Goers via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> This SEIA link has a PDF fact sheet you can download with info: >> >> >> https://www.seia.org/research-resources/inflation-reduction-act-solar-energy-and-energy-storage-provisions-summary >> >> August >> Luminalt >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 4:51 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> PV mag .02 on solar tax credit >>> >>> >>> https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/07/28/solar-investment-tax-credit-to-be-extended-10-years-at-30/ >>> >>> Dana Orzel >>> C: 208.721.7003 >>> E- dana at solarwork.com >>> >>> On Aug 12, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> I have a trusted source here in Florida that read the Senate Bill text >>> and said it would be retroactive to 2022. The way I am handling it is >>> telling people my prices will surely be more than 4% more in 2023. They >>> would be shooting themselves in the foot by delaying their project. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 6:48 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes >>>> the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year >>>> 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on >>>> this timing. Thanks. >>>> >>>> I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but >>>> need some tangible proof. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>>> >>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>>> >>>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>>> >>>> *www.vermont.solar* >>>> >>>> >>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>>> >>>> 802.863.1202 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Aug 15 19:55:03 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:55:03 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? Message-ID: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told - and I'm summarizing - oh, your installer didn't send in what we need. Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even after we called back for updates. The customer insists to SE, "send me new inverter" and SE sends this attached note to the customer. I almost fell over.I've put in hundreds and hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. Has this happened to anyone else? P.S. - I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was "116 minutes." This just isn't working. I can't be the only one. Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago - no retractions: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_ source=linkedin_share &utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Feliciano - from SolarEdge.jfif Type: image/jpeg Size: 245508 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Aug 15 20:22:38 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 20:22:38 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> References: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: call solaredge and IMMEDIATELY demand a level 2 tech, once you finally get a real person on the line. Most newby level 1's are reading off a debug sheet you can find online. Seriously. I know this for a fact, and the only reason I get a relatively quick response is for this reason. AND also tell the phone tree you are on site, even if you aren't, sorry if you are lying. Also call as soon as they open for service, that's 8am EST as I recall. it's ridiculous the level 1 problems go to headquarters in Israel, if you submit an online request for service. On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 7:55 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one > of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send > in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd > inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told – and > I’m summarizing – oh, your installer didn’t send in what we need. > > > > Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing > and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even > after we called back for updates. > > The customer insists to SE, “send me new inverter” and SE sends this > attached note to the customer. I almost fell over…I’ve put in hundreds and > hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and > to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. > > > > Has this happened to anyone else? > > > > P.S. – I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was “116 > minutes.” This just isn’t working. I can’t be the only one. > > Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago – no retractions: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Aug 15 20:21:46 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 17:21:46 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Abandoned equipment In-Reply-To: <4B0C1A3D-B2A3-4291-A25D-49767CBFA40D@gmail.com> References: <4B0C1A3D-B2A3-4291-A25D-49767CBFA40D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <990dd14c639ba012d2d81f23ddaf0af6@mail.gmail.com> Jay: I am sure you are regulated by the same laws that govern any repair shop. Check your state's consumer protection web site. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jay via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 10:28 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jay Subject: [RE-wrenches] Abandoned equipment Hi All A question. Panels were shipped to me, and literally dropped off the truck, 6’. About 1/2 broken, others with probable unknown future issues. Company I bought from sent me another pallet no charge. It’s been 3 months and the stack of broken/damaged panels is still in my yard and no updates or expected closure to this even after many phone calls. My question is, at what point are they considered abandoned? Or there might be some other legal name. For me to dispose of and or give away the probably damaged but unbroken ones? Thanks Jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Aug 15 20:26:29 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 17:26:29 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? In-Reply-To: References: <7480DA08-ED61-4F56-B275-1A2B68B0EFFF@solarwork.com> Message-ID: August: Could the term “standalone” refer to systems not connected to the grid? They are still out there. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *August Goers via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Monday, August 15, 2022 3:24 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* August Goers *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? The way I read it is that standalone means energy storage without PV. So, the 30% credit for storage without PV won't be available until next year. PV paired storage (where storage is charged from solar) at 30% should qualify back to the beginning of 2022. On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 2:04 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: I'm confused about the standalone battery provision. Does that mean that batteries will not be eligible for a tax credit in 2022? Or does standalone mean something different than battery backup with solar? Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 4:32 PM August Goers via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: This SEIA link has a PDF fact sheet you can download with info: https://www.seia.org/research-resources/inflation-reduction-act-solar-energy-and-energy-storage-provisions-summary August Luminalt On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 4:51 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: PV mag .02 on solar tax credit https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/07/28/solar-investment-tax-credit-to-be-extended-10-years-at-30/ Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com On Aug 12, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:  I have a trusted source here in Florida that read the Senate Bill text and said it would be retroactive to 2022. The way I am handling it is telling people my prices will surely be more than 4% more in 2023. They would be shooting themselves in the foot by delaying their project. Jason On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 6:48 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on this timing. Thanks. I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but need some tangible proof. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Mon Aug 15 20:59:57 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 20:59:57 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> References: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: <005001d8b10b$816a65e0$843f31a0$@mindspring.com> Scot Sadly, Solar Edge has been dropping the ball for years. They promised a Critical Loads service panel in which one could marry two store edges. Never saw it. They hitched their wagon to Tesla then LG for batteries. Have had customers with dead or removed batteries for coming on 14 months and no one will follow up with me at LG and when I ask for help at Solar edge they blow me off saying not their problem take it up with LG. Let's not even get into hold times. Thx Peter Giroux ASAE Roswell Ga From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Scot Arey via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 7:55 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: scot.arey at solarcentex.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told - and I'm summarizing - oh, your installer didn't send in what we need. Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even after we called back for updates. The customer insists to SE, "send me new inverter" and SE sends this attached note to the customer. I almost fell over.I've put in hundreds and hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. Has this happened to anyone else? P.S. - I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was "116 minutes." This just isn't working. I can't be the only one. Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago - no retractions: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_ source=linkedin_share &utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Aug 15 20:54:51 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 17:54:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> References: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: <8409c89f0ffc9b95c6cbf7aa0a48e60b@mail.gmail.com> Scott: I can’t help with advice on the particular technical issue. I can sympathize, however. This communication to the client is most unfortunate and really bad contractor relations. You can communicate with your customer to clear up misinformation, but it is hard to undo this kind of damage to your reputation. A retraction from the manufacturer is really the only remedy. I hope you can arrange that. I feel your pain. Fronious did the same thing to me a while ago and it killed a second large project on the same commercial property. This is another reason I quit using Fronious. Manufacturers' reps on this site, please take notice. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Scot Arey via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Monday, August 15, 2022 4:55 PM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Cc:* scot.arey at solarcentex.com *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told – and I’m summarizing – oh, your installer didn’t send in what we need. Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even after we called back for updates. The customer insists to SE, “send me new inverter” and SE sends this attached note to the customer. I almost fell over…I’ve put in hundreds and hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. Has this happened to anyone else? P.S. – I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was “116 minutes.” This just isn’t working. I can’t be the only one. Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago – no retractions: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 25021 bytes Desc: not available URL: From august at luminalt.com Mon Aug 15 21:03:24 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:03:24 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 26% to 30% ITC for 2022? In-Reply-To: References: <7480DA08-ED61-4F56-B275-1A2B68B0EFFF@solarwork.com> Message-ID: >From everything I’ve read, “stand alone energy storage” is intended to mean a battery system that is not paired with PV. Both on grid and off grid systems can qualify for the tax credit. I’m not a tax advisor, but this is my understanding. There will be a period of time in the coming months where the government folks actually work through the exact interpretations of this bill, so there will be more info coming I’m sure. On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 1:32 PM August Goers wrote: > This SEIA link has a PDF fact sheet you can download with info: > > > https://www.seia.org/research-resources/inflation-reduction-act-solar-energy-and-energy-storage-provisions-summary > > August > Luminalt > > > > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 4:51 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> PV mag .02 on solar tax credit >> >> >> https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/07/28/solar-investment-tax-credit-to-be-extended-10-years-at-30/ >> >> Dana Orzel >> C: 208.721.7003 >> E- dana at solarwork.com >> >> On Aug 12, 2022, at 4:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> I have a trusted source here in Florida that read the Senate Bill text >> and said it would be retroactive to 2022. The way I am handling it is >> telling people my prices will surely be more than 4% more in 2023. They >> would be shooting themselves in the foot by delaying their project. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022, 6:48 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> As we know, the FED tax credit will increase for 10 years (if it passes >>> the House and signed into law) to 30%. But is it retro to calendar year >>> 2022, or start in 2023? I have some customers making decisions based on >>> this timing. Thanks. >>> >>> I found one interpretation suggesting it will be effective in 2022 but >>> need some tangible proof. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >>> >>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >>> >>> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >>> >>> *www.vermont.solar* >>> >>> >>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >>> >>> 802.863.1202 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- August Goers Luminalt o: 415.792.6666 m: 415.559.1525 august at luminalt.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Aug 15 21:25:57 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 21:25:57 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> References: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: We never sold SE and never will. Their service has always been pretty poor and recently it's just bottom of the barrel. Blaming everything on installers and making you jump through asinine diagnostic hoops is the name of their service game. They don't seem to want to solve issues, or at least they want to avoid responsibility for defective products. This is in stark contrast to the big orange 'e' that recognizes they have defect issues from time to time, but resolves things routinely with mostly competent level 1 techs, and often without site visits. On Friday I got bounced around to three departments over 2 hours at SE only for the last guy to tell me he needed to send me to another department - except I recognized his name as someone who had emailed my client that he was taking personal responsibility for the issue. Busted! I demanded that he stay on the line and resolve the issue, which he ultimately did, to his credit. I can't remember the last time I was up against a SE proposal in Florida. Everyone has jumped ship apparently and only offer microinverters. It's very reminiscent of Fronius as another Wrench pointed out. Fronius used to dominate here until they started the same nonsense on-site diagnostic requirements. I'm not waiting on on hold, on site, for hours because you can't pick up the phone in a reasonable timeframe, only to be given the runaround for an obviously defective piece of hardware. Send pictures of my Fluke measurements? I think not. My client from Friday just signed a $9,000 contract with me to send her SolarEdge gear to the landfill and replace it with microinverters. Seriously. People are fed up (consumers and contractors). Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 7:55 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one > of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send > in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd > inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told – and > I’m summarizing – oh, your installer didn’t send in what we need. > > > > Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing > and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even > after we called back for updates. > > The customer insists to SE, “send me new inverter” and SE sends this > attached note to the customer. I almost fell over…I’ve put in hundreds and > hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and > to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. > > > > Has this happened to anyone else? > > > > P.S. – I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was “116 > minutes.” This just isn’t working. I can’t be the only one. > > Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago – no retractions: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 21:53:35 2022 From: spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com (No Name) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:53:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: References: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Very disappointing to say the least. My strategy has had to adapt at least a dozen times through the years as we are between a rock and a hard place out here on the left coast (between lack of equipment availability and cleaning up other's messes almost constantly). Scot, do you ever get the option for a "call back"? Usually with a wait time that long they give you an option to be called back in the same amount of time. But then you're not onsite, and many of their lame diagnostics require a tech to be onsite. I frequently use the chat (online) support, as you can choose an option to have your chat transcript emailed to you (make sure you check the box in chat) which at least lends supporting evidence to the conversation. I also encourage you to seek some sort of interaction from SE and a retraction of their error. Don't let the lower foot soldiers (lvl 1 tech support) stop you, politely keep insisting you speak with a higher lvl tech to resolve the issue. I am certain my face is on their dartboard as some days these issues required calling & chat support multiple times in one day. Be polite, but be unrelenting. Continued success will be increasingly difficult, as manufacturers "race to the bottom". ( I miss the days of old Xantrex and SunnyBoys). On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 6:26 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We never sold SE and never will. Their service has always been pretty poor > and recently it's just bottom of the barrel. Blaming everything on > installers and making you jump through asinine diagnostic hoops is the name > of their service game. They don't seem to want to solve issues, or at least > they want to avoid responsibility for defective products. This is in stark > contrast to the big orange 'e' that recognizes they have defect issues from > time to time, but resolves things routinely with mostly competent level 1 > techs, and often without site visits. > > On Friday I got bounced around to three departments over 2 hours at SE > only for the last guy to tell me he needed to send me to another department > - except I recognized his name as someone who had emailed my client that he > was taking personal responsibility for the issue. Busted! I demanded that > he stay on the line and resolve the issue, which he ultimately did, to his > credit. > > I can't remember the last time I was up against a SE proposal in Florida. > Everyone has jumped ship apparently and only offer microinverters. It's > very reminiscent of Fronius as another Wrench pointed out. Fronius used to > dominate here until they started the same nonsense on-site diagnostic > requirements. I'm not waiting on on hold, on site, for hours because you > can't pick up the phone in a reasonable timeframe, only to be given the > runaround for an obviously defective piece of hardware. Send pictures of my > Fluke measurements? I think not. > > My client from Friday just signed a $9,000 contract with me to send her > SolarEdge gear to the landfill and replace it with microinverters. > Seriously. People are fed up (consumers and contractors). > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 7:55 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one >> of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send >> in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd >> inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told – and >> I’m summarizing – oh, your installer didn’t send in what we need. >> >> >> >> Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing >> and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even >> after we called back for updates. >> >> The customer insists to SE, “send me new inverter” and SE sends this >> attached note to the customer. I almost fell over…I’ve put in hundreds and >> hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and >> to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. >> >> >> >> Has this happened to anyone else? >> >> >> >> P.S. – I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was >> “116 minutes.” This just isn’t working. I can’t be the only one. >> >> Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago – no retractions: >> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 21:56:45 2022 From: spaceshipnelson1 at gmail.com (No Name) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:56:45 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: References: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Apologies my Google keeps thinking I have no name lol, this is Joe Nelson over at Sustainable Energy Group.. (thank you Michael my apologies) On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 6:53 PM No Name wrote: > Very disappointing to say the least. > > My strategy has had to adapt at least a dozen times through the years as > we are between a rock and a hard place out here on the left coast (between > lack of equipment availability and cleaning up other's messes almost > constantly). > > Scot, do you ever get the option for a "call back"? Usually with a wait > time that long they give you an option to be called back in the same amount > of time. > > But then you're not onsite, and many of their lame diagnostics require a > tech to be onsite. > > I frequently use the chat (online) support, as you can choose an option to > have your chat transcript emailed to you (make sure you check the box in > chat) which at least lends supporting evidence to the conversation. > > I also encourage you to seek some sort of interaction from SE and a > retraction of their error. Don't let the lower foot soldiers (lvl 1 tech > support) stop you, politely keep insisting you speak with a higher lvl tech > to resolve the issue. I am certain my face is on their dartboard as some > days these issues required calling & chat support multiple times in one > day. Be polite, but be unrelenting. > > Continued success will be increasingly difficult, as manufacturers "race > to the bottom". ( I miss the days of old Xantrex and SunnyBoys). > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 6:26 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> We never sold SE and never will. Their service has always been pretty >> poor and recently it's just bottom of the barrel. Blaming everything on >> installers and making you jump through asinine diagnostic hoops is the name >> of their service game. They don't seem to want to solve issues, or at least >> they want to avoid responsibility for defective products. This is in stark >> contrast to the big orange 'e' that recognizes they have defect issues from >> time to time, but resolves things routinely with mostly competent level 1 >> techs, and often without site visits. >> >> On Friday I got bounced around to three departments over 2 hours at SE >> only for the last guy to tell me he needed to send me to another department >> - except I recognized his name as someone who had emailed my client that he >> was taking personal responsibility for the issue. Busted! I demanded that >> he stay on the line and resolve the issue, which he ultimately did, to his >> credit. >> >> I can't remember the last time I was up against a SE proposal in Florida. >> Everyone has jumped ship apparently and only offer microinverters. It's >> very reminiscent of Fronius as another Wrench pointed out. Fronius used to >> dominate here until they started the same nonsense on-site diagnostic >> requirements. I'm not waiting on on hold, on site, for hours because you >> can't pick up the phone in a reasonable timeframe, only to be given the >> runaround for an obviously defective piece of hardware. Send pictures of my >> Fluke measurements? I think not. >> >> My client from Friday just signed a $9,000 contract with me to send her >> SolarEdge gear to the landfill and replace it with microinverters. >> Seriously. People are fed up (consumers and contractors). >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 7:55 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one >>> of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send >>> in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd >>> inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told – and >>> I’m summarizing – oh, your installer didn’t send in what we need. >>> >>> >>> >>> Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing >>> and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even >>> after we called back for updates. >>> >>> The customer insists to SE, “send me new inverter” and SE sends this >>> attached note to the customer. I almost fell over…I’ve put in hundreds and >>> hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and >>> to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. >>> >>> >>> >>> Has this happened to anyone else? >>> >>> >>> >>> P.S. – I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was >>> “116 minutes.” This just isn’t working. I can’t be the only one. >>> >>> Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago – no retractions: >>> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garrison.rie at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 23:50:00 2022 From: garrison.rie at gmail.com (Garrison) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 22:50:00 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22C79604-DE42-4F71-9187-7ED6B719D879@gmail.com> Hi Scot, Do you know your local SolarEdge rep? If so maybe they can help. I have been having ongoing issues with SE “revenue grade meters” reporting inaccurate data for months, and my rep has been a good advocate. She is pretty new so doesn’t have a lot of clout, but to her credit has helped get some of my longstanding issues resolved. Maybe your rep can help get SolarEdge to apologize. If you want help finding your rep contact me off list. I’m sure mine can help connect you. SolarEdge does seem to have a policy to blame installers first and only offer support if you can prove it’s not your fault. I hope they change their attitude, but I’m not confident people at the top understand how bad support has become. The focus seems to be on marketing new products. Best, Garrison Riegel Celestar Solar (c) 773-515-5168 (e) garrison at celestarsolar.com > On Aug 15, 2022, at 10:32 PM, Garrison Riegel wrote: > >  > Hi Scot, > > Do you know your local SolarEdge rep? If so maybe they can help. I have been having ongoing issues with SE “revenue grade meters” reporting inaccurate data for months, and my rep has been a good advocate. She is pretty new so doesn’t have a lot of clout but to her credit has helped get some of my longstanding issues resolved. Maybe your rep can help get SolarEdge to apologize. If you want help finding your rep contact me off list. I’m sure mine can help connect you. > > SolarEdge does seem to have a policy to blame installers first and only offer support if you can prove it’s not your fault. I hope they change their attitude, but I’m not confident people at the top understand how bad support has become. > > Best, > > Garrison Riegel > Celestar Solar > (c) 773-515-5168 > (e) garrison at celestarsolar.com > >>> On Aug 15, 2022, at 8:57 PM, No Name via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>  >> Apologies my Google keeps thinking I have no name lol, this is Joe Nelson over at Sustainable Energy Group.. (thank you Michael my apologies) >> >>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 6:53 PM No Name wrote: >>> Very disappointing to say the least. >>> >>> My strategy has had to adapt at least a dozen times through the years as we are between a rock and a hard place out here on the left coast (between lack of equipment availability and cleaning up other's messes almost constantly). >>> >>> Scot, do you ever get the option for a "call back"? Usually with a wait time that long they give you an option to be called back in the same amount of time. >>> >>> But then you're not onsite, and many of their lame diagnostics require a tech to be onsite. >>> >>> I frequently use the chat (online) support, as you can choose an option to have your chat transcript emailed to you (make sure you check the box in chat) which at least lends supporting evidence to the conversation. >>> >>> I also encourage you to seek some sort of interaction from SE and a retraction of their error. Don't let the lower foot soldiers (lvl 1 tech support) stop you, politely keep insisting you speak with a higher lvl tech to resolve the issue. I am certain my face is on their dartboard as some days these issues required calling & chat support multiple times in one day. Be polite, but be unrelenting. >>> >>> Continued success will be increasingly difficult, as manufacturers "race to the bottom". ( I miss the days of old Xantrex and SunnyBoys). >>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 6:26 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>> We never sold SE and never will. Their service has always been pretty poor and recently it's just bottom of the barrel. Blaming everything on installers and making you jump through asinine diagnostic hoops is the name of their service game. They don't seem to want to solve issues, or at least they want to avoid responsibility for defective products. This is in stark contrast to the big orange 'e' that recognizes they have defect issues from time to time, but resolves things routinely with mostly competent level 1 techs, and often without site visits. >>>> >>>> On Friday I got bounced around to three departments over 2 hours at SE only for the last guy to tell me he needed to send me to another department - except I recognized his name as someone who had emailed my client that he was taking personal responsibility for the issue. Busted! I demanded that he stay on the line and resolve the issue, which he ultimately did, to his credit. >>>> >>>> I can't remember the last time I was up against a SE proposal in Florida. Everyone has jumped ship apparently and only offer microinverters. It's very reminiscent of Fronius as another Wrench pointed out. Fronius used to dominate here until they started the same nonsense on-site diagnostic requirements. I'm not waiting on on hold, on site, for hours because you can't pick up the phone in a reasonable timeframe, only to be given the runaround for an obviously defective piece of hardware. Send pictures of my Fluke measurements? I think not. >>>> >>>> My client from Friday just signed a $9,000 contract with me to send her SolarEdge gear to the landfill and replace it with microinverters. Seriously. People are fed up (consumers and contractors). >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 7:55 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>> We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told – and I’m summarizing – oh, your installer didn’t send in what we need. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even after we called back for updates. >>>>> >>>>> The customer insists to SE, “send me new inverter” and SE sends this attached note to the customer. I almost fell over…I’ve put in hundreds and hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Has this happened to anyone else? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> P.S. – I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was “116 minutes.” This just isn’t working. I can’t be the only one. >>>>> >>>>> Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago – no retractions: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 08:54:41 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 06:54:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar panel recycling Message-ID: <7D04D86A-5132-4FC5-8DBC-F0DE30D48D67@gmail.com> Hi All, Some asked me a question about recycling of panels and I can’t exactly find out the answer. The companies here in the US that “recycle”. If I understand it right, they are: 1. removing the aluminum frames 2. grinding up the panels 3. removing the wires Then I don’t know what happens, do they go to China for melting down or? thanks in advance Jay From bbassett2 at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 10:21:34 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 07:21:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar panel recycling In-Reply-To: <7D04D86A-5132-4FC5-8DBC-F0DE30D48D67@gmail.com> References: <7D04D86A-5132-4FC5-8DBC-F0DE30D48D67@gmail.com> Message-ID: Matt Ferrell gives a good summary of the issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JqzSsStwF4 Brad On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 5:55 AM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > Some asked me a question about recycling of panels and I can’t exactly > find out the answer. > > The companies here in the US that “recycle”. > If I understand it right, they are: > > 1. removing the aluminum frames > > 2. grinding up the panels > > 3. removing the wires > > Then I don’t know what happens, do they go to China for melting down or? > > thanks in advance > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Thu Aug 18 09:05:08 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 09:05:08 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Converting Enphase systems to ac coupled multimode systems Message-ID: <83ed8c79-400b-4b3c-1202-e7126286a366@entech-engineering.com> I have several Enphase system customers looking to add battery storage.   The Enphase system, which I got certified in, comes across to me as fairly complicated with several historical installation issues. The Outback Mojave looks pretty simple, and we have installed quite a few Radian, GVFX, etc systems and have had good experiences.  Would anyone care to share their experience with Mojave?  Thank you, Chris cwarfel at entech-engineering.com --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Aug 18 09:48:25 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 09:48:25 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Converting Enphase systems to ac coupled multimode systems In-Reply-To: <83ed8c79-400b-4b3c-1202-e7126286a366@entech-engineering.com> References: <83ed8c79-400b-4b3c-1202-e7126286a366@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: Enphase worked out a lot of kinks with their battery storage. Commissioning time is cut way down. I've been liking it (other than the price). One of the biggest problems I would say is the clunkiness of the conduit connections, especially to the Encharge 10T which only has conduit entry on the left and the Smart Switch which has a tapered enclosure. Other than that, I would say they've made huge progress with the technical issues that I ran into early on. The Enphase load management system suggestion is very poor in my opinion, but that's nothing that can't be solved with a different external load management system that you cobble together. I am working on a latching relay solution that doesn't hum and use so much energy with contactors that get their coil power from line voltage but allow dry contact connections that the Smart Switch provides. On balance, the simplicity of a single manufacturer and support team seems to make sense to me and is a consumer friendly solution. Jason On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 9:06 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have several Enphase system customers looking to add battery storage. > The Enphase system, which I got certified in, comes across to me as fairly > complicated with several historical installation issues. The Outback Mojave > looks pretty simple, and we have installed quite a few Radian, GVFX, etc > systems and have had good experiences. Would anyone care to share their > experience with Mojave? Thank you, Chris cwarfel at entech-engineering.com > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tump at swnl.net Thu Aug 18 11:46:42 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 11:46:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MPPT voltage changes Message-ID: <62A1FC63-EF2E-4880-9C91-B14A87F28945@swnl.net> Schnieder MPPT 100/600 charge controllers have in their menu a place to change the “MPPT” voltage setting from 600VDC down to 195VDC. In doing so all it seems to do is disable the controller and displays the screens; operating , not charging. I was trying to use this setting as I have a small array, (no room for any more then 5) 405 modules) a distance from my batteries. I am old enough to be quite aware of “VAPOR WARE” and old enough to know that there may be someone that has reset this setting and actually had it function. Manufacture alledges it “should work”………..NO white paper or any additional info from SE Solar either. Anyone? > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 12:38:02 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 09:38:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Converting Enphase systems to ac coupled multimode systems In-Reply-To: <83ed8c79-400b-4b3c-1202-e7126286a366@entech-engineering.com> References: <83ed8c79-400b-4b3c-1202-e7126286a366@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: You also might want to look at the solark 12 and 15 On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:06 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have several Enphase system customers looking to add battery storage. > The Enphase system, which I got certified in, comes across to me as fairly > complicated with several historical installation issues. The Outback Mojave > looks pretty simple, and we have installed quite a few Radian, GVFX, etc > systems and have had good experiences. Would anyone care to share their > experience with Mojave? Thank you, Chris cwarfel at entech-engineering.com > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Thu Aug 18 12:43:47 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 11:43:47 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] MPPT voltage changes In-Reply-To: <62A1FC63-EF2E-4880-9C91-B14A87F28945@swnl.net> References: <62A1FC63-EF2E-4880-9C91-B14A87F28945@swnl.net> Message-ID: Do you have 5 60-cell or 5 72-cell modules in series? I recall that active tracking has to have 230V to start and then can go down to 195V. I’m reading from an old manual, though. The new manual is here: https://solar.se.com/us/en/product/conext-mppt-100-600-6kw-solar-pv-charge-controller/#downloads Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Aug 18, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Tump via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Schnieder MPPT 100/600 charge controllers have in their menu a place to change the “MPPT” voltage setting from 600VDC down to 195VDC. In doing so all it seems to do is disable the controller and displays the screens; operating , not charging. > I was trying to use this setting as I have a small array, (no room for any more then 5) 405 modules) a distance from my batteries. I am old enough to be quite aware of “VAPOR WARE” and old enough to know that there may be someone that has reset this setting and actually had it function. Manufacture alledges it “should work”………..NO white paper or any additional info from SE Solar either. Anyone? >> Tump3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> Blair "TUMP" May >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Thu Aug 18 20:03:53 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 17:03:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar panel recycling In-Reply-To: References: <7D04D86A-5132-4FC5-8DBC-F0DE30D48D67@gmail.com> Message-ID: <118d4a86-9fdd-ba40-fbe0-da9329135230@psln.com> Its kinda fuzzy in my head now but about a year and a half ago we delivered a pallet of old PVs to some warehouse in Reno (Sparks) on Greg St.  It was supposed to be the beginning of recycling here on the west coast and was headed up by Sam Vanderhoof and a fellow named Lamar.  Hopefully this info is still all good as I haven't contacted these folks since and can't find how to contact them. Maybe Sam catches wind and can straighten out things here on the list. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049, C10 On 8/17/2022 7:21 AM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: > Matt Ferrell gives a good summary of the issues: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JqzSsStwF4 > > Brad > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 5:55 AM jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi All, > > Some asked me a question about recycling of panels and I can’t > exactly find out the answer. > > The companies here in the US that “recycle”. > If I understand it right, they are: > > 1. removing the aluminum frames > > 2. grinding up the panels > > 3. removing the wires > > Then I don’t know what happens, do they go to China for melting > down or? > > thanks in advance > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathanjstumpff at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 20:07:35 2022 From: nathanjstumpff at gmail.com (Nathan J. Stumpff) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 17:07:35 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar panel recycling In-Reply-To: <118d4a86-9fdd-ba40-fbe0-da9329135230@psln.com> References: <7D04D86A-5132-4FC5-8DBC-F0DE30D48D67@gmail.com> <118d4a86-9fdd-ba40-fbe0-da9329135230@psln.com> Message-ID: This is a good resource I was introduced to at the most recent NABCEP conference: https:\\www.solarrecycle.org On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 4:59 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Its kinda fuzzy in my head now but about a year and a half ago we > delivered a pallet of old PVs to some warehouse in Reno (Sparks) on Greg > St. It was supposed to be the beginning of recycling here on the west > coast and was headed up by Sam Vanderhoof and a fellow named Lamar. > Hopefully this info is still all good as I haven't contacted these folks > since and can't find how to contact them. Maybe Sam catches wind and can > straighten out things here on the list. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049, C10 > > On 8/17/2022 7:21 AM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Matt Ferrell gives a good summary of the issues: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JqzSsStwF4 > > Brad > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 5:55 AM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Some asked me a question about recycling of panels and I can’t exactly >> find out the answer. >> >> The companies here in the US that “recycle”. >> If I understand it right, they are: >> >> 1. removing the aluminum frames >> >> 2. grinding up the panels >> >> 3. removing the wires >> >> Then I don’t know what happens, do they go to China for melting down or? >> >> thanks in advance >> >> Jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > [image: width=] > > Virus-free.www.avast.com > > <#m_-2640827310067434843_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 21:23:42 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 18:23:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] HomeGrid batteries Message-ID: Hi Yall! Anyone used HomeGrid batteries? We are just getting ready to pair them with some Outback and Sol Ark systems.. They have a compelling price, form and feature set. Hoping to hear of any issues before we jump in too deep with them.. 100 thanks for any thoughts! Cheers. Kirpal Oregon Solarworks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarjon at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 22:29:40 2022 From: solarjon at gmail.com (Jonathan Hill) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 20:29:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar panel recycling In-Reply-To: <118d4a86-9fdd-ba40-fbe0-da9329135230@psln.com> References: <7D04D86A-5132-4FC5-8DBC-F0DE30D48D67@gmail.com> <118d4a86-9fdd-ba40-fbe0-da9329135230@psln.com> Message-ID: Call Sam at 530-559-5018. Tell him Solarjonny sent ya! > On Aug 18, 2022, at 6:03 PM, frenergy via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Its kinda fuzzy in my head now but about a year and a half ago we delivered a pallet of old PVs to some warehouse in Reno (Sparks) on Greg St. It was supposed to be the beginning of recycling here on the west coast and was headed up by Sam Vanderhoof and a fellow named Lamar. Hopefully this info is still all good as I haven't contacted these folks since and can't find how to contact them. Maybe Sam catches wind and can straighten out things here on the list. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049, C10 > On 8/17/2022 7:21 AM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Matt Ferrell gives a good summary of the issues: >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JqzSsStwF4 >> >> Brad >> >> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 5:55 AM jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> Some asked me a question about recycling of panels and I can’t exactly find out the answer. >> >> The companies here in the US that “recycle”. >> If I understand it right, they are: >> >> 1. removing the aluminum frames >> >> 2. grinding up the panels >> >> 3. removing the wires >> >> Then I don’t know what happens, do they go to China for melting down or? >> >> thanks in advance >> >> Jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > Virus-free.www.avast.com _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 22:45:31 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2022 19:45:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] HomeGrid batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The cycle life sounds good the warranty cycle for off grid is far less than blue planet and fortress. If you compare the fortress x 2, 18.5's with a better warranty it comes out cheaper. I do see a display but l only see volts. Pretty low surge, is there US warranty administration? Good luck, On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:24 PM Kirpal via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Yall! > Anyone used HomeGrid batteries? We are just getting ready to pair them > with some Outback and Sol Ark systems.. They have a compelling price, form > and feature set. > Hoping to hear of any issues before we jump in too deep with them.. > 100 thanks for any thoughts! > Cheers. > Kirpal > Oregon Solarworks > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From integrityenergy101 at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 12:23:52 2022 From: integrityenergy101 at gmail.com (Amos Post) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2022 12:23:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Has anyone ever had one of his customers get a note from SolarEdge like this one? In-Reply-To: References: <016901d8b102$70777ec0$51667c40$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: <66DA1CBC-AD0D-4C7A-9714-3864E7AD6415@gmail.com> I know everybody is experiencing supply chain problems and it’s over my head as to what’s going on… I have also recently had poor support from Solaredge. Support was good several years back when the company was young, but it’s been getting worse and worse the last couple of years. We have an 11.4KW where the customer is now on his 4th inverter in 4 years. We are still waiting for a replacement after 6 weeks. We also recently had a SE6k stop producing. SE did a firmware update on day one, and that didn’t help. Day #2 we did a “load test”, by turning off all of the house AC loads and leaving just the inverter on (per SE recommendation), still no dice. Day #3 I called in and they are going to send a replacement but no concrete timeframe. This is very frustrating for customers and us as installers when our customers have to wait this long for a replacement, especially during prime producing days of summer. Somehow they are able to maintain a good stock price and some inventory at local distributors(but not in their warranty department). Solaredge’s customer support needs to step up a notch (or two) if they are going to make it through this. The long wait times and level 1 techs are also not so good. Amos Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 ienergyVT.com Facebook > On Aug 15, 2022, at 9:56 PM, No Name via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Apologies my Google keeps thinking I have no name lol, this is Joe Nelson over at Sustainable Energy Group.. (thank you Michael my apologies) > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 6:53 PM No Name > wrote: > Very disappointing to say the least. > > My strategy has had to adapt at least a dozen times through the years as we are between a rock and a hard place out here on the left coast (between lack of equipment availability and cleaning up other's messes almost constantly). > > Scot, do you ever get the option for a "call back"? Usually with a wait time that long they give you an option to be called back in the same amount of time. > > But then you're not onsite, and many of their lame diagnostics require a tech to be onsite. > > I frequently use the chat (online) support, as you can choose an option to have your chat transcript emailed to you (make sure you check the box in chat) which at least lends supporting evidence to the conversation. > > I also encourage you to seek some sort of interaction from SE and a retraction of their error. Don't let the lower foot soldiers (lvl 1 tech support) stop you, politely keep insisting you speak with a higher lvl tech to resolve the issue. I am certain my face is on their dartboard as some days these issues required calling & chat support multiple times in one day. Be polite, but be unrelenting. > > Continued success will be increasingly difficult, as manufacturers "race to the bottom". ( I miss the days of old Xantrex and SunnyBoys). > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 6:26 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: > We never sold SE and never will. Their service has always been pretty poor and recently it's just bottom of the barrel. Blaming everything on installers and making you jump through asinine diagnostic hoops is the name of their service game. They don't seem to want to solve issues, or at least they want to avoid responsibility for defective products. This is in stark contrast to the big orange 'e' that recognizes they have defect issues from time to time, but resolves things routinely with mostly competent level 1 techs, and often without site visits. > > On Friday I got bounced around to three departments over 2 hours at SE only for the last guy to tell me he needed to send me to another department - except I recognized his name as someone who had emailed my client that he was taking personal responsibility for the issue. Busted! I demanded that he stay on the line and resolve the issue, which he ultimately did, to his credit. > > I can't remember the last time I was up against a SE proposal in Florida. Everyone has jumped ship apparently and only offer microinverters. It's very reminiscent of Fronius as another Wrench pointed out. Fronius used to dominate here until they started the same nonsense on-site diagnostic requirements. I'm not waiting on on hold, on site, for hours because you can't pick up the phone in a reasonable timeframe, only to be given the runaround for an obviously defective piece of hardware. Send pictures of my Fluke measurements? I think not. > > My client from Friday just signed a $9,000 contract with me to send her SolarEdge gear to the landfill and replace it with microinverters. Seriously. People are fed up (consumers and contractors). > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2022, 7:55 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: > We just had the second SE7600 Energy Hub internal error in a year at one of our sites. Our customer none too pleased as you might imagine. We send in pics to SolarEdge and they say they are assessing since this is 2nd inverter failure. Customer gets super upset and calls SE to be told – and I’m summarizing – oh, your installer didn’t send in what we need. > > > > Huh? We sent in the pics as requested and were told they were assessing and not once have we been asked for further details or better pics, even after we called back for updates. > > The customer insists to SE, “send me new inverter” and SE sends this attached note to the customer. I almost fell over…I’ve put in hundreds and hundreds of SolarEdge to include many dual-inverter/BUI/storage systems and to have a tech roll me and my company under the bus like this is stunning. > > > > Has this happened to anyone else? > > > > P.S. – I tried calling SE today for support and was told the wait was “116 minutes.” This just isn’t working. I can’t be the only one. > > Posted this on LinkedIn a month ago – no retractions: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6948389740500987904?utm_source=linkedin_share&utm_medium=member_desktop_share&utm_content=post > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE LOGO 150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Sat Aug 20 10:14:26 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2022 09:14:26 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Converting Enphase systems to ac coupled multimode systems In-Reply-To: References: <83ed8c79-400b-4b3c-1202-e7126286a366@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <04a001d8b49f$28496cd0$78dc4670$@solarcentex.com> Just retrofitted a Fronius 10KW legacy system of mine with a SolArk 15. AC-coupled solution and 31kwh of storage and seems to eb doing all the customer wants. BIG fan of the SolArk and their tech support is really well informed and proficient; different techs both helped me understand the nuances of different settings in an AC-coupled design. Actually considering the Enphase IQ8 / SolArk combo as my heavy duty storage solution when a pair of Encharge 10 won’t do it. The Enphase will get me my RSD without clunky 3rd party RSD device. Still doing the math. Call if you need anything. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2022 11:38 AM To: cwarfel ; RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Converting Enphase systems to ac coupled multimode systems You also might want to look at the solark 12 and 15 On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:06 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > wrote: I have several Enphase system customers looking to add battery storage. The Enphase system, which I got certified in, comes across to me as fairly complicated with several historical installation issues. The Outback Mojave looks pretty simple, and we have installed quite a few Radian, GVFX, etc systems and have had good experiences. Would anyone care to share their experience with Mojave? Thank you, Chris cwarfel at entech-engineering.com -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Sun Aug 21 13:32:59 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 12:32:59 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment Message-ID: Has anyone ever heard this from a tax advisor? Am I missing something? What our account said is, if we were audited, the dept. federal revenue would ask for a certificate from the manufacturer of the solar equipment showing that they qualify for the credit. He said not all manufacturers qualify. If you are certain that it qualifies, you could get the certificate from them for us. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Sun Aug 21 18:48:18 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 22:48:18 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kris; Yes, this is a popular request for the manufacturers at tax time. It is part of IRS code 25D. Here is what the doc looks like for REC. I’m not sure who your manufacturer is, but their documents team should be able to provide this. Adios, George McClellan George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8B575.6C92C9F0] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 10:33 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Kristopher Schmid Subject: [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment Has anyone ever heard this from a tax advisor? Am I missing something? What our account said is, if we were audited, the dept. federal revenue would ask for a certificate from the manufacturer of the solar equipment showing that they qualify for the credit. He said not all manufacturers qualify. If you are certain that it qualifies, you could get the certificate from them for us. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Manufacturers Certification Statement Dec 2021.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 59165 bytes Desc: Manufacturers Certification Statement Dec 2021.pdf URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Sun Aug 21 19:03:28 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 13:03:28 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So why wouldn’t any particular PV module qualify as “solar electric property”? marco On Sunday, August 21, 2022, George McClellan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Kris; Yes, this is a popular request for the manufacturers at tax time. > It is part of IRS code 25D. Here is what the doc looks like for REC. I’m > not sure who your manufacturer is, but their documents team should be able > to provide this. > > > > Adios, George McClellan > > > > George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC > > 330 James Way Ste 150 > | > > Pismo > Beach, CA 93449 > > | USA > > > Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 > > www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2022 10:33 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Kristopher Schmid > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment > > > > Has anyone ever heard this from a tax advisor? > > > > Am I missing something? > > > > What our account said is, if we were audited, the dept. federal revenue > would ask for a certificate from the manufacturer of the solar equipment > showing that they qualify for the credit. He said not all manufacturers > qualify. If you are certain that it qualifies, you could get the > certificate from them for us. > > > > > > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > > > ------------------------------ > > > This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any > unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this > message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please > notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. > > ------------------------------ > > This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any > unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this > message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please > notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: not available URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Sun Aug 21 19:11:51 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 23:11:51 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They all probably do. The IRS just wants to make sure it is documented. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8B578.B78661D0] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 4:03 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Marco Mangelsdorf Subject: [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment So why wouldn’t any particular PV module qualify as “solar electric property”? marco On Sunday, August 21, 2022, George McClellan via RE-wrenches > wrote: Kris; Yes, this is a popular request for the manufacturers at tax time. It is part of IRS code 25D. Here is what the doc looks like for REC. I’m not sure who your manufacturer is, but their documents team should be able to provide this. Adios, George McClellan George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8B578.B78661D0] From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 10:33 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Kristopher Schmid > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Qualifying equipment Has anyone ever heard this from a tax advisor? Am I missing something? What our account said is, if we were audited, the dept. federal revenue would ask for a certificate from the manufacturer of the solar equipment showing that they qualify for the credit. He said not all manufacturers qualify. If you are certain that it qualifies, you could get the certificate from them for us. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Aug 25 13:37:59 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 13:37:59 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] White Roof Temperature Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, A client installed a beautiful white standing seam roof. Suddenly their air conditioning loads dropped way down. We were planning to put an array on the roof, but she is concerned that the roof would become much hotter with dark colored solar modules over it. Is there any data on this issue? Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From larry at starlightsolar.com Thu Aug 25 13:46:21 2022 From: larry at starlightsolar.com (Starlight) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:46:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] White Roof Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps this: https://jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/news/release?id=1094 Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Aug 25, 2022, at 11:37 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: Hello Wrenches, A client installed a beautiful white standing seam roof. Suddenly their air conditioning loads dropped way down. We were planning to put an array on the roof, but she is concerned that the roof would become much hotter with dark colored solar modules over it. Is there any data on this issue? Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:10:28 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:10:28 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] White Roof Temperature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did some infrared tests years ago on metal vs comp,vs TPO this along with color, attic temps. As an example regular comp roof (Dark color non reflective) in clear sun, gable end vented rafters and plywood temps were 135 degrees and under the modules a foot away was 85 Degrees, so in short it will not really matter what is under the modules as long as there is ventilation AKA air gap between the array and the roof, the attic will be much cooler. As I am sure you all know steel gets colder in the winter then comp and hotter in the summer but when you shade the roof it basically does not matter what you are using. I do suggest going into customers' attic during the day with a IR camera or gun and you can see with good detail the shade of the modules, even the conduite on the roof, plus the attic temp being cooler under the modules. In 2017 we tested homes in Honolulu that were getting a white silicone coating over an asphalt roof, you could see in the attic where they were coating in real time and the results were incredible. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 10:39 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > A client installed a beautiful white standing seam roof. Suddenly their > air conditioning loads dropped way down. > > We were planning to put an array on the roof, but she is concerned that > the roof would become much hotter with dark colored solar modules over > it. > > Is there any data on this issue? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Thu Aug 25 16:07:15 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 14:07:15 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] White Roof Temperature References: <028301d8b8af$e87d8f40$b978adc0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <001a01d8b8be$4631b770$d2952650$@OasisMontana.com> You folks might find this of interest. Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Image (6).jpg Type: image/bmp Size: 80038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 13:10:36 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:10:36 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Do Sunny Islands and Fortress batteries play well together? Message-ID: Has anyone put Fortress batteries into a Sunny Island off grid system, either an E flex or an E vault? I have a client with older 2 volt Rolls batteries that need replacing. Currently about 55 kwhs. Or any experience with other LiFEPO4 batteries with Sunny Island off grid systems? Thanks Howie Sin barber -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at getpimby.com Fri Sep 2 14:31:46 2022 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matt Sherald) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:31:46 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li Message-ID: Hello Friends, I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some SimpliPhi 3.8kW batteries. This is an older system and it has a Trimetric battery monitor that the homeowners have used for years to keep an eye on their battery bank. The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but the homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that they are finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit. The voltage of the SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are getting fully charged and are doing so fairly early in the AM (solar is the primary power source). I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the Trimetric is not reporting correctly. They suggested that a Victron BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full etc... Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah in/out for Li batteries? Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I maybe just need to adjust the settings? Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at monitoring Li batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing what the group thinks. Thanks for your time! -Matt -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC 304-704-5943 www.getpimby.blogspot.com www.getpimby.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Sep 2 14:43:17 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:43:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’ve never installed simplify batteries. Do they make their own state of charge monitor? The trimetric has a perimeter called charge efficiency % You can tweak that to get it to match the any benchmark more closely. Also the trimetric should be reset to full on a regular basis, When you have confidence the batteries are full. All trimetrics drift off over time, especially given the unique charge characteristics of lithium-ion’s versus lead acid batteries. On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 2:32 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Friends, > > I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some SimpliPhi > 3.8kW batteries. This is an older system and it has a Trimetric battery > monitor that the homeowners have used for years to keep an eye on their > battery bank. > > The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but the > homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that they are > finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit. The voltage of the > SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are getting fully charged and are > doing so fairly early in the AM (solar is the primary power source). > > I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the > Trimetric is not reporting correctly. They suggested that a Victron > BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full etc... > > Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah in/out for Li > batteries? Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I maybe just need to adjust > the settings? > > Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at monitoring Li > batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing what the group thinks. > > Thanks for your time! > > -Matt > > > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Fri Sep 2 15:13:09 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 12:13:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am having the same problem - same situation. I am going to tweak the efficiency value and see if it helps. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 11:43, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’ve never installed simplify batteries. Do they make their own state of > charge monitor? > The trimetric has a perimeter called charge efficiency % You can tweak > that to get it to match the any benchmark more closely. > Also the trimetric should be reset to full on a regular basis, When you > have confidence the batteries are full. All trimetrics drift off over time, > especially given the unique charge characteristics of lithium-ion’s versus > lead acid batteries. > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 2:32 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello Friends, >> >> I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some SimpliPhi >> 3.8kW batteries. This is an older system and it has a Trimetric battery >> monitor that the homeowners have used for years to keep an eye on their >> battery bank. >> >> The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but the >> homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that they are >> finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit. The voltage of the >> SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are getting fully charged and are >> doing so fairly early in the AM (solar is the primary power source). >> >> I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the >> Trimetric is not reporting correctly. They suggested that a Victron >> BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full etc... >> >> Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah in/out for >> Li batteries? Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I maybe just need to >> adjust the settings? >> >> Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at monitoring Li >> batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing what the group thinks. >> >> Thanks for your time! >> >> -Matt >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Sherald >> PIMBY Energy, LLC >> 304-704-5943 >> >> www.getpimby.blogspot.com >> www.getpimby.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Fri Sep 2 15:29:54 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 13:29:54 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48790da0-6d6b-2c44-8138-40cd091f17d9@sindelarsolar.com> Matt, you didn't indicate whether this is a TM2020 or a newer TM-2030. The steps are the same, so it shouldn't matter. Set the charge efficiency to 99%. Set the voltage to a few tenths of a volt below the Simpliphi's BMS setpoint. Set the amps to off. Make sure that P01 for auto reset is on. Should work fine. Allan On 9/2/2022 12:43 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > I’ve never installed simplify batteries. Do they make their own state > of charge monitor? > The trimetric has a perimeter called charge efficiency % You can tweak > that to get it to match the any benchmark more closely. > Also the trimetric should be reset to full on a regular basis, When > you have confidence the batteries are full. All trimetrics drift off > over time, especially given the unique charge characteristics of > lithium-ion’s versus lead acid batteries. > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 2:32 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hello Friends, > I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some > SimpliPhi 3.8kW batteries.  This is an older system and it has a > Trimetric battery monitor that the homeowners have used for years > to keep an eye on their battery bank. > The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but > the homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that > they are finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit.  > The voltage of the SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are > getting fully charged and are doing so fairly early in the AM > (solar is the primary power source). > I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the > Trimetric is not reporting correctly.  They suggested that a > Victron BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full > etc... > Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah > in/out for Li batteries?  Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I > maybe just need to adjust the settings? > Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at > monitoring Li batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing > what the group thinks. > Thanks for your time! > -Matt > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. Founder (Retired), Sindelar Solar *505 780-2738 cell* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri Sep 2 15:55:41 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 13:55:41 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <905712b7-c82f-8b0b-fce3-920d1252d5a0@solarray.com> Default efficiency on the TriMet was 94%, needs to be quite a bit higher for Li+.  I'd try 98%. 2nd point:  Customers have always obsessed about meter readings: they need to take a chill pill, and accept its not going to be better than +/- 10% accuracy.  Or get a Fortress battery with built in SOC readings on the unit. On 9/2/2022 1:13 PM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches wrote: > I am having the same problem - same situation. I am going to tweak the > efficiency value and see if it helps. > > > *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 > T: 888.386.0116 > *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA *** > > **** > > > > On Fri, 2 Sept 2022 at 11:43, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > I’ve never installed simplify batteries. Do they make their own > state of charge monitor? > The trimetric has a perimeter called charge efficiency % You can > tweak that to get it to match the any benchmark more closely. > Also the trimetric should be reset to full on a regular basis, > When you have confidence the batteries are full. All trimetrics > drift off over time, especially given the unique charge > characteristics of lithium-ion’s versus lead acid batteries. > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 2:32 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some > SimpliPhi 3.8kW batteries.  This is an older system and it has > a Trimetric battery monitor that the homeowners have used for > years to keep an eye on their battery bank. > > The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, > but the homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting > that they are finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour > deficit.  The voltage of the SimpliPhi batteries indicate that > they are getting fully charged and are doing so fairly early > in the AM (solar is the primary power source). > > I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that > the Trimetric is not reporting correctly.  They suggested that > a Victron BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent > Full etc... > > Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah > in/out for Li batteries?  Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I > maybe just need to adjust the settings? > > Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at > monitoring Li batteries has me curious and I will enjoy > hearing what the group thinks. > > Thanks for your time! > > -Matt > > > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar* > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 16:43:26 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:43:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Matt, I typically like to keep battery monitors consistent with inverter manufacturers. Outback and Schneider Electric and Magnum offer good native battery monitors that, when tuned in correctly, work well with LFP. That being said, I have definitely used the Victron BMV 712 paired with SimpliPhi and hand full of times with great results. It’s a shunt based monitor with easy installation and Bluetooth connectivity. Accuracy is nowhere near closed loop, however if programmed correctly, it’s a helpful addition. I do wish that SimpliPhi would develop a plug in BMS display for their AmpliPHI series, similar to the Discover AES Link. This is where the Fortress eVault really gets it right. Kindly, Chris On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 2:32 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Friends, > > I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some SimpliPhi > 3.8kW batteries. This is an older system and it has a Trimetric battery > monitor that the homeowners have used for years to keep an eye on their > battery bank. > > The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but the > homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that they are > finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit. The voltage of the > SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are getting fully charged and are > doing so fairly early in the AM (solar is the primary power source). > > I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the > Trimetric is not reporting correctly. They suggested that a Victron > BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full etc... > > Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah in/out for Li > batteries? Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I maybe just need to adjust > the settings? > > Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at monitoring Li > batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing what the group thinks. > > Thanks for your time! > > -Matt > > > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 17:50:53 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 14:50:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This has been an issue with me, these batteries all have a basic BMS and then why does Simplify not support their own with a readable BMS, Fortress has a monitor, Blue planet has a BMS. Jerry On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:32 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Friends, > > I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some SimpliPhi > 3.8kW batteries. This is an older system and it has a Trimetric battery > monitor that the homeowners have used for years to keep an eye on their > battery bank. > > The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but the > homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that they are > finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit. The voltage of the > SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are getting fully charged and are > doing so fairly early in the AM (solar is the primary power source). > > I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the > Trimetric is not reporting correctly. They suggested that a Victron > BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full etc... > > Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah in/out for Li > batteries? Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I maybe just need to adjust > the settings? > > Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at monitoring Li > batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing what the group thinks. > > Thanks for your time! > > -Matt > > > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 18:15:21 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:15:21 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Do Sunny Islands and Fortress batteries play well together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Howie, I haven't done a Fortress paired with a Sunny Island, but I have done a large Blue Ion battery bank work a quad stack of Sunny Islands. You can use the Namaka box to aggregate battery bank data and select "external Li-ion BMS" and it will convey state of charge to the Sunny Island. Seems to work well. We ran it without the Namaka box for a while, and the Sunny Island SOC algorithm really couldn't effectively track the state of charge of the Blue Ion batteries. I suspect, unless Fortress has a way to "talk" to the Sunny Islands, you would struggle with programming the Sunny Island to properly track the state of charge. This really comes up with off grid sites where you are counting on starting a generator at the proper time. Let us know what you decide to do. Thanks On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, 11:11 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Has anyone put Fortress batteries into a Sunny Island off grid system, > either an E flex or an E vault? I have a client with older 2 volt Rolls > batteries that need replacing. Currently about 55 kwhs. Or any experience > with other LiFEPO4 batteries with Sunny Island off grid systems? > Thanks > Howie > Sin barber > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 18:23:17 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 18:23:17 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Do Sunny Islands and Fortress batteries play well together? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://learn.fortresspower.com/external/manual/sma/article/copy-of-unpacking-the-batteries?p=dc8b9a9c1b3f410556835193e66f2257c662403dfb3da4056e618e954e8381d2 According to Fortress, they have estables closed loop. However, I don’t have experience with this match up. On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 6:16 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Howie, > > I haven't done a Fortress paired with a Sunny Island, but I have done a > large Blue Ion battery bank work a quad stack of Sunny Islands. You can > use the Namaka box to aggregate battery bank data and select "external > Li-ion BMS" and it will convey state of charge to the Sunny Island. > > Seems to work well. > > We ran it without the Namaka box for a while, and the Sunny Island SOC > algorithm really couldn't effectively track the state of charge of the Blue > Ion batteries. I suspect, unless Fortress has a way to "talk" to the Sunny > Islands, you would struggle with programming the Sunny Island to properly > track the state of charge. This really comes up with off grid sites where > you are counting on starting a generator at the proper time. > > Let us know what you decide to do. > > Thanks > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, 11:11 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Has anyone put Fortress batteries into a Sunny Island off grid system, >> either an E flex or an E vault? I have a client with older 2 volt Rolls >> batteries that need replacing. Currently about 55 kwhs. Or any experience >> with other LiFEPO4 batteries with Sunny Island off grid systems? >> Thanks >> Howie >> Sin barber >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Sep 2 19:25:46 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 19:25:46 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Monitor for Li In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: But Blue Planet does not have a native SOC / voltage monitor. Egauge and Namaka, which I both have on several BI systems, do not correlate. Supposedly they are coming out with a native monitor soon. On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 5:51 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This has been an issue with me, these batteries all have a basic BMS and > then why does Simplify not support their own with a readable BMS, Fortress > has a monitor, Blue planet has a BMS. > Jerry > > On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 11:32 AM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello Friends, >> >> I have an off-grid customer for whom I recently installed some SimpliPhi >> 3.8kW batteries. This is an older system and it has a Trimetric battery >> monitor that the homeowners have used for years to keep an eye on their >> battery bank. >> >> The SimpliPhi batteries appear to be working fine at the site, but the >> homeowners feel uneasy b/c the Trimetric is reporting that they are >> finishing each charging cycle with an amp-hour deficit. The voltage of the >> SimpliPhi batteries indicate that they are getting fully charged and are >> doing so fairly early in the AM (solar is the primary power source). >> >> I've spoken with SimpliPhi tech folks and their hunch is that the >> Trimetric is not reporting correctly. They suggested that a Victron >> BMV-712 would be more accurate at tracking Percent Full etc... >> >> Do you folks think that the Victron is better at counting Ah in/out for >> Li batteries? Or is the Trimetric adequate - do I maybe just need to >> adjust the settings? >> >> Anyway, the implication that the Victron BMV was better at monitoring Li >> batteries has me curious and I will enjoy hearing what the group thinks. >> >> Thanks for your time! >> >> -Matt >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Sherald >> PIMBY Energy, LLC >> 304-704-5943 >> >> www.getpimby.blogspot.com >> www.getpimby.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Fri Sep 2 22:51:27 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:51:27 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Samlex EVO series and AGS Message-ID: Can anyone recommend a reliable AGS module that works well with the EVO series inverters? Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Sat Sep 3 00:35:05 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 21:35:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Samlex EVO series and AGS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <066faf40-0555-9a62-7f64-96f97f62ce85@psln.com> Doesn't the EVO have that capability? Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 Solar Powered since 1982 On 9/2/2022 7:51 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > Can anyone recommend a reliable AGS module that works well with the > EVO series inverters? > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Sat Sep 3 11:52:06 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:52:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Samlex EVO series and AGS In-Reply-To: <066faf40-0555-9a62-7f64-96f97f62ce85@psln.com> References: <066faf40-0555-9a62-7f64-96f97f62ce85@psln.com> Message-ID: The EVO has an AUX contact closure, either NO or NC that can be programmed for a two wire generator. If you need 3 or 4 wire start logic you can use the Atkinson GSCM. Brad On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 9:30 PM frenergy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Doesn't the EVO have that capability? > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > Solar Powered since 1982 > > > On 9/2/2022 7:51 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a reliable AGS module that works well with the EVO > series inverters? > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > [image: width=] > > Virus-free.www.avast.com > > <#m_8794352245291726173_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 08:59:23 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 08:59:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations Message-ID: Hi all, I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that would inform my decision. Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that might help? Thanks! -Chris -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Sep 6 09:19:41 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 09:19:41 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs. Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details. The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed. https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries > on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a > bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of > battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install > photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that would > inform my decision. > > Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that > might help? > > Thanks! > > -Chris > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 10:21:28 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 10:21:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Jason, I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover manual only states: “ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can result in death or serious injury.” Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall is rated to 4,500 lbs? On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs. > Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details. > The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting > factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed. > > > https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES >> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud >> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost >> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other >> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that >> would inform my decision. >> >> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that >> might help? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -Chris >> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> > _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Sep 6 10:29:44 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 10:29:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each when constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a limiting factor. But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting one would not be a bad idea. Jason On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo wrote: > Thanks Jason, > > I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover > manual only states: > > “ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted > onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of > 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can > result in death or serious injury.” > > Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall > is rated to 4,500 lbs? > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs. >> Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details. >> The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting >> factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed. >> >> >> https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES >>> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud >>> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost >>> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other >>> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that >>> would inform my decision. >>> >>> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that >>> might help? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> -Chris >>> -- >>> Chris Sparadeo >>> >>> >>> C_802-369-4458 >>> H_802-728-3059 >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jj at aprsworld.com Tue Sep 6 10:38:03 2022 From: jj at aprsworld.com (James Jarvis) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 09:38:03 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Buckling of the wall studs is most likely going to be the failure mode. You can use WebStructural to look at different designs. You'll find that accurately defining the constraints on the structural members is the most troublesome. https://webstructural.com/ Personally, I don't think that supporting a couple of thousand pounds of dead load hanging off the sides of $2 studs fastened with unknown fasteners into unknown top and bottom plates is a super great idea. I would do it on a poured concrete wall, but this sounds like it is asking for trouble. -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 http://www.aprsworld.com/ On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:30 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > 2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each when > constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a limiting > factor. But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting one would not be > a bad idea. > > > Jason > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo > wrote: > >> Thanks Jason, >> >> I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover >> manual only states: >> >> “ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted >> onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of >> 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can >> result in death or serious injury.” >> >> Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall >> is rated to 4,500 lbs? >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs. >>> Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details. >>> The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting >>> factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed. >>> >>> >>> https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Florida Solar Design Group >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES >>>> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud >>>> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost >>>> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other >>>> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that >>>> would inform my decision. >>>> >>>> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that >>>> might help? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> -Chris >>>> -- >>>> Chris Sparadeo >>>> >>>> >>>> C_802-369-4458 >>>> H_802-728-3059 >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Tue Sep 6 12:24:26 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 16:24:26 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Having witnessed the aftermath of others who have installed batteries by bolting brackets to wood stud walls, my advice is do not do it! You reinforce the structure prior to mounting the batteries but failing to do could result in a catastrophic failure. When in doubt consult with your friendly local engineer who can properly evaluate your plans. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of James Jarvis via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 9:38 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: James Jarvis Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations Buckling of the wall studs is most likely going to be the failure mode. You can use WebStructural to look at different designs. You'll find that accurately defining the constraints on the structural members is the most troublesome. https://webstructural.com/ Personally, I don't think that supporting a couple of thousand pounds of dead load hanging off the sides of $2 studs fastened with unknown fasteners into unknown top and bottom plates is a super great idea. I would do it on a poured concrete wall, but this sounds like it is asking for trouble. -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 http://www.aprsworld.com/ On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:30 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: 2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each when constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a limiting factor. But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting one would not be a bad idea. Jason On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo > wrote: Thanks Jason, I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover manual only states: “ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can result in death or serious injury.” Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall is rated to 4,500 lbs? On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs. Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details. The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed. https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi all, I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that would inform my decision. Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that might help? Thanks! -Chris -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Tue Sep 6 13:04:31 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 11:04:31 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <094b6824-8fed-dbda-4aee-844dc1d3107d@solarray.com> I agree with James here.  I will relate a "funny" story about a neighbor mounting a large Elk antler rack on his wall with lags. Worked fine, till one night they heard a big crash, and the antlers had pulled the wall stud right out of the wall into the living room. The 2x 4 came right out of  the rest of the wall, the couple of nails at the top plate were not enough. I'd say either you beef up all your stud to stud connections with serious reinforcing angle brackets, or just use a floor rack. That's way too much weight to hang on a wall.  I think its actually really bad design, and don't understand why battery manus would even make wall mounts.  It brings up a 2nd question, which is how to make all the connections without having exposed cables. I'd actually consider something like  the Fortress instead. On 9/6/2022 8:38 AM, James Jarvis via RE-wrenches wrote: > Buckling of the wall studs is most likely going to be the failure > mode. You can use WebStructural to look at different designs. You'll > find that accurately defining the constraints on the structural > members is the most troublesome. > https://webstructural.com/ > > Personally, I don't think that supporting a couple of thousand pounds > of dead load hanging off the sides of $2 studs fastened with unknown > fasteners into unknown top and bottom plates is a super great idea. I > would do it on a poured concrete wall, but this sounds like it is > asking for trouble. > > > -James Jefferson Jarvis > APRS World, LLC > +1-507-454-2727 > http://www.aprsworld.com/ > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:30 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > 2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each > when constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a > limiting factor. But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting > one would not be a bad idea. > > > Jason > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo > wrote: > > Thanks Jason, > > I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. > The Discover manual only states: > > “ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must > be mounted onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to > support a minimum of 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to > follow these instructions can result in death or serious injury.” > > Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure > that the wall is rated to 4,500 lbs? > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via > RE-wrenches wrote: > > That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across > several studs. Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the > installation manual for details. The shear and pull out > strength of the fasteners will be the limiting factor, not > the wall itself unless very poorly constructed. > > https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via > RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 > Discover AES batteries on a wall. Each battery is > around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a bulky > 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging > almost a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. > I’ve seen it done in other install photos, however I > can’t seem to find and good building code that would > inform my decision. > > Does anyone out there have a building code reference > or experience that might help? > > Thanks! > > -Chris > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one > doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one > doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Tue Sep 6 13:12:43 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 07:12:43 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] PID buggers Message-ID: Aloha all, For those of us solar peeps who have installed positive grounded SunPower mods years ago that require grounding in order to perform properly, I/we have been impatiently waiting for SunPower or *someone* to offer a device (see attached) to allow for the pairing of positively ground arrays to transformerless inverters (such as the SMA SB US-41). Has anyone out there had the opportunity to beta test this bugger in the field? If so, I'm very interested in feedback, please. Mahalo, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Datasheet-PIDbox-Mini-Indoor-Outdoor-EN.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 103367 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 15:20:53 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 12:20:53 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We hang a lot of AES on wooden stud walls. Our engineer prescribed the following: 1-5/8" strut bolted to every stud in the span. AES factory mounting brackets bolted with 3/8" grade 8 bolts and thick strut cone nuts. Then a support brace 3-1/4" strut which is (2) welded back to back 1-5/8" struts (think beam) supported by the same 3-1/4" strut (think legs) with strut post bases and plate connectors for connections. He said "now way" to relying on studs for anything beyond two batteries. On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 5:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries > on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a > bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of > battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install > photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that would > inform my decision. > > Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that > might help? > > Thanks! > > -Chris > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at solarandwindfx.com Tue Sep 6 15:31:14 2022 From: chris at solarandwindfx.com (Chris Schaefer) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 15:31:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael, Any pictures of that bracing system pre battery mount would be greatly appreciated. Christopher On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 3:21 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > We hang a lot of AES on wooden stud walls. Our engineer prescribed the > following: 1-5/8" strut bolted to every stud in the span. AES factory > mounting brackets bolted with 3/8" grade 8 bolts and thick strut cone nuts. > Then a support brace 3-1/4" strut which is (2) welded back to back 1-5/8" > struts (think beam) supported by the same 3-1/4" strut (think legs) with > strut post bases and plate connectors for connections. He said "now way" to > relying on studs for anything beyond two batteries. > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 5:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES >> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud >> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost >> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other >> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that >> would inform my decision. >> >> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that >> might help? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -Chris >> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Schaefer’s *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com * Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Wed Sep 7 16:40:10 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 13:40:10 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Birdhouse systems Message-ID: We have some older systems that used the MidNite Disco Combiners and Birdhouse. We have to install a new Rapid Shutdown system since these can't be replaced. My question is, can I quickly/easily disable the Rapid Shutdown in the Combiner and still use it as a combiner? What is the signal in the CAT5 cable anyway? *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 07:42:08 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 05:42:08 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3 phase off-grid UL listed Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, What inverter options are there for 3 phase, UL listed, off-grid inverter systems in the 30kW+ category? It's been quite a while since I dove into this... Thanks! -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 09:18:59 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 07:18:59 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3 phase off-grid UL listed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <991A23A3-DDBC-4AFF-8790-E63EF89FB817@gmail.com> Hi Mac Sol ark does, Schneider XWpro does, Outback vfxr does but only 9 which is 32kw That’s all I can think of Jay > On Sep 8, 2022, at 5:42 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hello Wrenches, > > What inverter options are there for 3 phase, UL listed, off-grid inverter systems in the 30kW+ category? > It's been quite a while since I dove into this... > Thanks! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 10:29:43 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 07:29:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3 phase off-grid UL listed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Outback FX R can be built to be 3 phase and solark also works, for 30 k l would look at solark, 3 12's or 15's. Jerry On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 4:42 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > What inverter options are there for 3 phase, UL listed, off-grid inverter > systems in the 30kW+ category? > It's been quite a while since I dove into this... > Thanks! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Thu Sep 8 11:49:40 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 08:49:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3 phase off-grid UL listed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DD7800B-843E-4340-8467-EADC262D334A@solarenergydesign.com> That’s a market segment that no inverter company that I know of really makes a product for. I would probably use 3 Sol-Ark 12K inverters. You’ll have to be careful with load balancing with any Sol-Ark inverter though. Schneider would also work but you will have a lot of individual components and you would need to be careful that the internal transfer switch is within its 60 amp capacity limit from a generator or other source. With multiple Schneider inverters there is the possibility that not all of the internal transfer switches will trip at exactly the same time causing the transfer switch in one inverter to take the whole load. I was originally a staunch Outback fan but we’ve stopped using their products after we had repeated Incidents of equipment not working right out of the box. Vince McClellan Energy Design > On Sep 8, 2022, at 07:30, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Outback FX R can be built to be 3 phase and solark also works, for 30 k l would look at solark, 3 12's or 15's. > Jerry > >> On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 4:42 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> What inverter options are there for 3 phase, UL listed, off-grid inverter systems in the 30kW+ category? >> It's been quite a while since I dove into this... >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Thu Sep 8 12:21:34 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 09:21:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3 phase off-grid UL listed In-Reply-To: <0DD7800B-843E-4340-8467-EADC262D334A@solarenergydesign.com> References: <0DD7800B-843E-4340-8467-EADC262D334A@solarenergydesign.com> Message-ID: I've worked with a few larger 3-phase Conext XW systems - 3 inverters and 6 inverters. The inverters' output capabilities are slightly reduced since they have to be converted to 120 V, effectively doubling the output current. Also,they required an external transfer switch. Even with 3 inverters configured for 3-phase, I would recommend an external transfer. The relays have a habit of welding. Once they were configured properly, there was no problem starting large HVAC loads and even large single phase loads were OK. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 08:49, Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > That’s a market segment that no inverter company that I know of really > makes a product for. > I would probably use 3 Sol-Ark 12K inverters. > You’ll have to be careful with load balancing with any Sol-Ark inverter > though. > Schneider would also work but you will have a lot of individual components > and you would need to be careful that the internal transfer switch is > within its 60 amp capacity limit from a generator or other source. With > multiple Schneider inverters there is the possibility that not all of the > internal transfer switches will trip at exactly the same time causing the > transfer switch in one inverter to take the whole load. > I was originally a staunch Outback fan but we’ve stopped using their > products after we had repeated Incidents of equipment not working right out > of the box. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > > On Sep 8, 2022, at 07:30, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Outback FX R can be built to be 3 phase and solark also works, for 30 k l > would look at solark, 3 12's or 15's. > Jerry > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 4:42 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> What inverter options are there for 3 phase, UL listed, off-grid inverter >> systems in the 30kW+ category? >> It's been quite a while since I dove into this... >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Thu Sep 8 14:29:38 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 11:29:38 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3 phase off-grid UL listed In-Reply-To: References: <0DD7800B-843E-4340-8467-EADC262D334A@solarenergydesign.com> Message-ID: <4ace1dbf03a3990d9e2c4e2db4758da2@sti.net> This is a new product from Schneider to solve a few of the issues. A recent webinar had the 3 phase issue brought up and this 200A pre wired panel. The 3 phase webinar is next, I heard..... https://solar.se.com/us/en/?s=865-BCS-2200 Whole home backup or subpanel backup with up to 200 A rating * Service entrance rated when installed with a main breaker * Top or bottom entry for grid input * Optional non-backup circuit, making it easy to backup an existing panel and remove select non-critical loads * Fast 50 ms transfer from grid connected to backup power operation * Reliable backup power and load starting performance with the compatible XW Pro inverters * Connect up to 4 XW Pro inverters for up to 27 kW continuous and 48 kW peak backup power capability Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net On 2022-09-08 9:21 am, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches wrote: > I've worked with a few larger 3-phase Conext XW systems - 3 inverters > and 6 inverters. > The inverters' output capabilities are slightly reduced since they have > to be converted to 120 V, effectively doubling the output current. > Also,they required an external transfer switch. Even with 3 inverters > configured for 3-phase, I would recommend an external transfer. The > relays have a habit of welding. > Once they were configured properly, there was no problem starting large > HVAC loads and even large single phase loads were OK. > > Eric Smiley, Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 [1] > T: 888.386.0116 [2] > VIRIDIANENERGY.CA [3] > > [3] > > On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 08:49, Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > That's a market segment that no inverter company that I know of really > makes a product for. > I would probably use 3 Sol-Ark 12K inverters. > You'll have to be careful with load balancing with any Sol-Ark inverter > though. > Schneider would also work but you will have a lot of individual > components and you would need to be careful that the internal transfer > switch is within its 60 amp capacity limit from a generator or other > source. With multiple Schneider inverters there is the possibility that > not all of the internal transfer switches will trip at exactly the > same time causing the transfer switch in one inverter to take the whole > load. > I was originally a staunch Outback fan but we've stopped using their > products after we had repeated Incidents of equipment not working right > out of the box. > > Vince McClellan > Energy Design > > On Sep 8, 2022, at 07:30, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Outback FX R can be built to be 3 phase and solark also works, for 30 k > l would look at solark, 3 12's or 15's. > Jerry > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 4:42 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > What inverter options are there for 3 phase, UL listed, off-grid > inverter systems in the 30kW+ category? > It's been quite a while since I dove into this... > Thanks! > -- > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] tel:+12507036004 [2] tel:+18883860116 [3] https://viridianenergy.ca/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: blocked.gif Type: image/gif Size: 118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 23:46:28 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 21:46:28 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Is anyone aware of a high current, (~3000A DC rated, 48Vdc nominal) battery combiner panel that would allow for ~36-48 x 4/0 cables to connect? Seems like nothing will be close to UL listed on this. How do you go about building a 60 kW off-grid system on the battery side of things? Do I need to increase battery voltage design? I have gotten a custom busbar fabricated by Storm Power rated for about 2kA before, but I'd love to have a UL Listed solution for large battery combining. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks! -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Sep 9 08:03:11 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 08:03:11 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <607C16C7-FBB1-49C1-B311-1EFC2859DE71@solarwork.com> Good morning all if you did not catch the last email on this project the manufacturer is Wildcat Generators and should be in the history I’m on vacation at the moment and operating from the phone with no Internet where we’re staying Wildcat was hoping by early November to EOY to have a 15 KW and possibly a 10 KW though not UL listed. The 15KW is slated to get UL listing down the road Time still to be determined Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Sep 9, 2022, at 12:52 AM, Kevin Pegg wrote: > >  > Hi Dana, > > Touching base to see how this project is going? I could definitely sell several units a year of this config. Very needed. > > Thanks, > > Kevin Pegg > EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. > 37471 Hwy 16 E > Telkwa, BC V0J 2X2 > 250-846-9888 > Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > Sent: July-02-22 9:11 AM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Dana Orzel > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > I heard back Friday from the generator manufacturers executive board meeting Friday morning there is their response: > ________ > Hi Dana, > > I spoke with the executives this morning and we’re very excited to hear what the demand is for this genset is. If it makes sense, we’re all in. > ------------ > Please let me know if your interest in a 13KW – 1800 RPM genset – water cooled is of interest for you & your off grid clients. I see this as a big opportunity for replacing the oversized gensets that we have been forced to use for a long time now. > > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 12:02 PM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Dana Orzel > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY > > Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, > > I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. > > If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? > > If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. > > If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. > > Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. > I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Fri Sep 9 18:54:09 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 22:54:09 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY In-Reply-To: <607C16C7-FBB1-49C1-B311-1EFC2859DE71@solarwork.com> References: <607C16C7-FBB1-49C1-B311-1EFC2859DE71@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Over the past year we have installed a handful of wildcat 15 kw generators. Lead times remain a challenge but so far no operational issues. https://www.wildcatpowergen.com/ PRH From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 7:03 AM To: Kevin Pegg ; re-wrenches-bounces Cc: Dana Orzel Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Good morning all if you did not catch the last email on this project the manufacturer is Wildcat Generators and should be in the history I’m on vacation at the moment and operating from the phone with no Internet where we’re staying Wildcat was hoping by early November to EOY to have a 15 KW and possibly a 10 KW though not UL listed. The 15KW is slated to get UL listing down the road Time still to be determined Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com On Sep 9, 2022, at 12:52 AM, Kevin Pegg > wrote:  Hi Dana, Touching base to see how this project is going? I could definitely sell several units a year of this config. Very needed. Thanks, Kevin Pegg EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. 37471 Hwy 16 E Telkwa, BC V0J 2X2 250-846-9888 Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: July-02-22 9:11 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Dana Orzel > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY I heard back Friday from the generator manufacturers executive board meeting Friday morning there is their response: ________ Hi Dana, I spoke with the executives this morning and we’re very excited to hear what the demand is for this genset is. If it makes sense, we’re all in. ------------ Please let me know if your interest in a 13KW – 1800 RPM genset – water cooled is of interest for you & your off grid clients. I see this as a big opportunity for replacing the oversized gensets that we have been forced to use for a long time now. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 12:02 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: Dana Orzel > Subject: [RE-wrenches] WATER COOLED - 1800 RPM - 13KW GENERATORS INQUIRY Hey now all you off grid designer/installers, I just had a conversation with generator manufacturer (name withheld for the moment), about 8-13KW water cooled gensets with UL & LP gas powered. I explained that there is a long time hole in the market since Onan & Kohler dropped their gensets for prime power in this size range. If they made the investment to produce & UL certify a 13KW - 1800 RPM - water cooled – 2 wire start, prime power rated - 120/240vac genset, how many off grid systems are being installed with oversized gensets? If this was available how many units would each of you be interested in per year? I am not asking for a commitment just a market survey for this sized unit. If there was 20-30 companies selling 4-5+ each per year this might be a possibility. Let me know either off list or on list (if this is OK ? Michael let us know) & I hope there is a possibility here for more appropriately sized & available gensets for our off grid client systems. I will be passing along this research to the OE manufacturer. If you do not want your name passed along let me know for now. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.greatsolarworks.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 13:15:15 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 11:15:15 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark 12kw question Message-ID: <421B2AA2-51BB-485F-A75E-893534001C77@gmail.com> HI All I”m trying to figure out exactly how much PV/CC there is for off grid on the sol ark 12kw or 9kw off grid The manual says 6,500 and 6,500 watts but that is grid connected. It looks like its 6,500 max for offgrid? Is that correct? thanks in advance jay From maclewis1 at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 13:29:22 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 11:29:22 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark 12kw question In-Reply-To: <421B2AA2-51BB-485F-A75E-893534001C77@gmail.com> References: <421B2AA2-51BB-485F-A75E-893534001C77@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, It can process 6500W of solar per input port of the MPPT, in the case of the 12kW, there are 2 of them. so around 13kW. As an off-grid inverter, it's a 9kW total if perfectly balanced, but perhaps better to think of as 37.5A per phase. I don't believe that 37.5A increases if the solar is available or not with the 12kW. However, in the new 15kW, there is a little bump in the off-grid inverter output when there is solar available. Cheers On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 11:15 AM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI All > > I”m trying to figure out exactly how much PV/CC there is for off grid on > the sol ark 12kw or 9kw off grid > > > The manual says 6,500 and 6,500 watts but that is grid connected. > It looks like its 6,500 max for offgrid? > > Is that correct? > > thanks in advance > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 14:57:12 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 14:57:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark phase imbalances Message-ID: Is there a white paper or a thorough explanation of the issue Sol-Ark had with large imbalances between phases. I am looking at a large residential off-grid system using potentially (2)15 kw Sol-Arks. What are the concerns specifically around unbalanced inductive loads. Also, I have not installed multiple Sol-Arks before. Any suggestions or issues it would be good to be aware of? Thanks, Howie Sun Catcher -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 15:31:04 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 13:31:04 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark phase imbalances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <593521ED-3C92-4EC3-9BEA-E2C739AE37E3@gmail.com> Hi Howie Here is an interesting youtube video about testing the sol ark vs XW pro. They use all sorts of loads and the sol ark does not come out well in my view, but I’ll let you decide. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ez4cbuy7IQ jay > On Sep 10, 2022, at 12:57 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Is there a white paper or a thorough explanation of the issue Sol-Ark had with large imbalances between phases. I am looking at a large residential off-grid system using potentially (2)15 kw Sol-Arks. What are the concerns specifically around unbalanced inductive loads. > Also, I have not installed multiple Sol-Arks before. Any suggestions or issues it would be good to be aware of? > Thanks, > Howie > Sun Catcher > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 15:33:48 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 12:33:48 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark phase imbalances In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches The 15 is not that similar to the 12, there is no OCP on most of the AC inputs, this means you need to add that in, connection to the grid will require a OPD maybe a traditional AC disco we used for years, you may need a 200 amp with fuses as required by your meter max. Off grid you would not need this but use of a genny would over 12 k or so you still do. Load out of balance has gotten better with firmware upgrades. Over 2 battery inputs will require a battery combiner, l have had no issues with solark on off grid usage. Fortress battery links up well with the solarks. Fun times On Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 11:57 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Is there a white paper or a thorough explanation of the issue Sol-Ark had > with large imbalances between phases. I am looking at a large residential > off-grid system using potentially (2)15 kw Sol-Arks. What are the concerns > specifically around unbalanced inductive loads. > Also, I have not installed multiple Sol-Arks before. Any suggestions or > issues it would be good to be aware of? > Thanks, > Howie > Sun Catcher > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Sep 10 17:58:16 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 14:58:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mac: Getting listing on something as specialized as you are talking about may be difficult. I would turn to the telecom industry for solutions. Here is one link I found. Their product line is pretty sexy and it is listed. If you are rolling your own, you can find ampacities for standard copper bar thicknesses someplace like here . You might fabricate something that looks like one of these but bigger. Threading is desirable so you can avoid wrangling nuts on the back sides, but tapping copper at a reasonable bolt size (likely 3/8-16) can be tricky. I am looking for any excuse to buy one of these drill presses which can automatically chip-clear. Basically at this point in my life my only reason for working is to support my tool addiction. Good luck. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, September 8, 2022 8:46 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Mac Lewis *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing Hello Wrenches, Is anyone aware of a high current, (~3000A DC rated, 48Vdc nominal) battery combiner panel that would allow for ~36-48 x 4/0 cables to connect? Seems like nothing will be close to UL listed on this. How do you go about building a 60 kW off-grid system on the battery side of things? Do I need to increase battery voltage design? I have gotten a custom busbar fabricated by Storm Power rated for about 2kA before, but I'd love to have a UL Listed solution for large battery combining. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks! -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 18:21:28 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:21:28 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches We have used the midnight box, both with and without OCP breakers, I dont think they are large enough for what you want, we have up to 80 kWhrs connected going to 5 Radians. Fun times On Thu, Sep 8, 2022, 8:47 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > Is anyone aware of a high current, (~3000A DC rated, 48Vdc nominal) > battery combiner panel that would allow for ~36-48 x 4/0 cables to connect? > > Seems like nothing will be close to UL listed on this. How do you go > about building a 60 kW off-grid system on the battery side of things? Do I > need to increase battery voltage design? > > I have gotten a custom busbar fabricated by Storm Power rated for about > 2kA before, but I'd love to have a UL Listed solution for large battery > combining. Any suggestions are appreciated. > > Thanks! > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat Sep 10 19:14:54 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 19:14:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: SolarBOS can possibly make one custom for you, it will be listed, and it will not be cheap. I was going to order a 2000A w/ multiple OCPDs on both inputs and outputs from them, but then Midnite came out with a 2000A combiner, and I don't need it listed for my application. On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 6:15 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Mac: > > > > Getting listing on something as specialized as you are talking about may > be difficult. I would turn to the telecom industry for solutions. Here is > one link > > I found. Their product line is pretty sexy and it is listed. > > > > If you are rolling your own, you can find ampacities for standard copper > bar thicknesses someplace like here > . > You might fabricate something that looks like one of these > > but bigger. Threading is desirable so you can avoid wrangling nuts on the > back sides, but tapping copper at a reasonable bolt size (likely 3/8-16) > can be tricky. I am looking for any excuse to buy one of these drill > presses > > which can automatically chip-clear. Basically at this point in my life my > only reason for working is to support my tool addiction. > > > > Good luck. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, September 8, 2022 8:46 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Mac Lewis > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing > > > > Hello Wrenches, > > > > Is anyone aware of a high current, (~3000A DC rated, 48Vdc nominal) > battery combiner panel that would allow for ~36-48 x 4/0 cables to connect? > > > > Seems like nothing will be close to UL listed on this. How do you go > about building a 60 kW off-grid system on the battery side of things? Do I > need to increase battery voltage design? > > > > I have gotten a custom busbar fabricated by Storm Power rated for about > 2kA before, but I'd love to have a UL Listed solution for large battery > combining. Any suggestions are appreciated. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sun Sep 11 07:49:23 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 07:49:23 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB3F059-0775-4342-8B56-9CF5CE891868@solarwork.com> You might possibly check with Northwest energy storage all of their hup solar one batteries come with solid copper bars lead plated I don’t know what the ampacities are but Rob might be able to assist you there Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Sep 10, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > SolarBOS can possibly make one custom for you, it will be listed, and it will not be cheap. I was going to order a 2000A w/ multiple OCPDs on both inputs and outputs from them, but then Midnite came out with a 2000A combiner, and I don't need it listed for my application. > >> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 6:15 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Mac: >> >> >> >> Getting listing on something as specialized as you are talking about may be difficult. I would turn to the telecom industry for solutions. Here is one link I found. Their product line is pretty sexy and it is listed. >> >> >> >> If you are rolling your own, you can find ampacities for standard copper bar thicknesses someplace like here. You might fabricate something that looks like one of these but bigger. Threading is desirable so you can avoid wrangling nuts on the back sides, but tapping copper at a reasonable bolt size (likely 3/8-16) can be tricky. I am looking for any excuse to buy one of these drill presses which can automatically chip-clear. Basically at this point in my life my only reason for working is to support my tool addiction. >> >> >> >> Good luck. >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches >> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2022 8:46 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Cc: Mac Lewis >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing >> >> >> >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> >> >> Is anyone aware of a high current, (~3000A DC rated, 48Vdc nominal) battery combiner panel that would allow for ~36-48 x 4/0 cables to connect? >> >> >> >> Seems like nothing will be close to UL listed on this. How do you go about building a 60 kW off-grid system on the battery side of things? Do I need to increase battery voltage design? >> >> >> >> I have gotten a custom busbar fabricated by Storm Power rated for about 2kA before, but I'd love to have a UL Listed solution for large battery combining. Any suggestions are appreciated. >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Sun Sep 11 22:00:42 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 19:00:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: <4AB3F059-0775-4342-8B56-9CF5CE891868@solarwork.com> References: <4AB3F059-0775-4342-8B56-9CF5CE891868@solarwork.com> Message-ID: We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer sign off on our designs. I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper. I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to thru-bolting. On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 4:49 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > You might possibly check with Northwest energy storage all of their hup > solar one batteries come with solid copper bars lead plated I don’t know > what the ampacities are but Rob might be able to assist you there > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Sep 10, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > SolarBOS can possibly make one custom for you, it will be listed, and it > will not be cheap. I was going to order a 2000A w/ multiple OCPDs on both > inputs and outputs from them, but then Midnite came out with a 2000A > combiner, and I don't need it listed for my application. > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 6:15 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Mac: >> >> >> >> Getting listing on something as specialized as you are talking about may >> be difficult. I would turn to the telecom industry for solutions. Here is >> one link >> >> I found. Their product line is pretty sexy and it is listed. >> >> >> >> If you are rolling your own, you can find ampacities for standard copper >> bar thicknesses someplace like here >> . >> You might fabricate something that looks like one of these >> >> but bigger. Threading is desirable so you can avoid wrangling nuts on the >> back sides, but tapping copper at a reasonable bolt size (likely 3/8-16) >> can be tricky. I am looking for any excuse to buy one of these drill >> presses >> >> which can automatically chip-clear. Basically at this point in my life my >> only reason for working is to support my tool addiction. >> >> >> >> Good luck. >> >> >> >> William Miller >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 8, 2022 8:46 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Mac Lewis >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing >> >> >> >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> >> >> Is anyone aware of a high current, (~3000A DC rated, 48Vdc nominal) >> battery combiner panel that would allow for ~36-48 x 4/0 cables to connect? >> >> >> >> Seems like nothing will be close to UL listed on this. How do you go >> about building a 60 kW off-grid system on the battery side of things? Do I >> need to increase battery voltage design? >> >> >> >> I have gotten a custom busbar fabricated by Storm Power rated for about >> 2kA before, but I'd love to have a UL Listed solution for large battery >> combining. Any suggestions are appreciated. >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates* >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From integrityenergy101 at gmail.com Mon Sep 12 10:28:34 2022 From: integrityenergy101 at gmail.com (Amos Post) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 10:28:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Solar Modules Message-ID: <616F7057-B5CD-498D-A2F6-852AE4A02162@gmail.com> Hi all, I have a few old modules I am trying to date best I can. One is an Photowatt (Arco?) 55Watt silver frame yellow backsheet, one is a Solarex 53Watt silver frame grey back sheet, and one Arco 50Watt black frame black back sheet. Looking for help with dates and if anyone knows of good websites for looking up specs and/or dates on these older modules? Thanks, Amos Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 ienergyVT.com Facebook -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE LOGO 150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Mon Sep 12 10:51:01 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 10:51:01 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Solar Modules In-Reply-To: <616F7057-B5CD-498D-A2F6-852AE4A02162@gmail.com> References: <616F7057-B5CD-498D-A2F6-852AE4A02162@gmail.com> Message-ID: <70206090-4de4-c56f-2fc6-2a2977fa143a@entech-engineering.com> If you can't find anything, I would think measuring Voc, adjusting for temperature,  and then dividing into the wattage would give you some reasonable approximations. Chris On 9/12/2022 10:28 AM, Amos Post via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a few old modules I am trying to date best I can.  One is an > Photowatt (Arco?) 55Watt silver frame yellow backsheet, one is a > Solarex 53Watt silver frame grey back sheet, and one Arco 50Watt black > frame black back sheet.  Looking for help with dates and if anyone > knows of good websites for looking up specs and/or dates on these > older modules? > > Thanks, > Amos > > >        Amos Post > Integrity Energy >   W 802.763.7023 >    C 802.291.2188 > ienergyVT.com > Facebook > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE LOGO 150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From frenergy at psln.com Mon Sep 12 10:59:12 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 07:59:12 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: <4AB3F059-0775-4342-8B56-9CF5CE891868@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Michael,             Are you using kerosene as a cutting fluid?  We've had better luck with that in softer than steel metals. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 9/11/2022 7:00 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house > fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now > we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars > in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with > slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover > AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer > sign off on our designs. > > I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper. > I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to > thru-bolting. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com From allan at sindelarsolar.com Mon Sep 12 10:54:12 2022 From: allan at sindelarsolar.com (Allan Sindelar) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 16:54:12 +0200 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Solar Modules In-Reply-To: <616F7057-B5CD-498D-A2F6-852AE4A02162@gmail.com> References: <616F7057-B5CD-498D-A2F6-852AE4A02162@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Photowatt is French. Early 80s most likely. Windy Dankoff imported them for a few years, late 70s - early 80s. They’re remarkable modules. I had (before I retired) several clients still using them. Every one is still putting out at or close to rated output, 40 years later. The only problem I ever encountered is the output studs breaking off. And years ago I used to solder leads to the ribbons with Big Bertha - a 100w soldering iron. I made clear up front that I wouldn’t guarantee my repair work, but it worked every time, and never shattered the glass. The 50w Arco would likely be late 80s, as before that they were 32-35w. The Solarex is likely a VLX53 from the mid-late 90s. The VLX had a thin frame. Hope that helps. Other old timers can correct me if I’m wrong with any of this. Allan Sindelar Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2022, at 4:29 PM, Amos Post via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have a few old modules I am trying to date best I can. One is an Photowatt (Arco?) 55Watt silver frame yellow backsheet, one is a Solarex 53Watt silver frame grey back sheet, and one Arco 50Watt black frame black back sheet. Looking for help with dates and if anyone knows of good websites for looking up specs and/or dates on these older modules? > > Thanks, > Amos > > > Amos Post > Integrity Energy > W 802.763.7023 > C 802.291.2188 > ienergyVT.com > Facebook > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE LOGO 150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com Mon Sep 12 15:01:13 2022 From: solarenergysolutions at yahoo.com (Solar Energy Solutions) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 19:01:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [RE-wrenches] SUNPOWER Costumer Service References: <1577312314.1432258.1663009273356.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1577312314.1432258.1663009273356@mail.yahoo.com> Dear all those who know more than I, For 15 years I have been bragging about the GREAT SunPower customer service.  What has changed?  I have spent hours on the phone, often times being disconnected or left to perish on hold.  I don't seem to be able to get decent tech support or data recovery. Oh Great Spirits, Speak!  Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Mon Sep 12 15:05:14 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 09:05:14 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SUNPOWER Costumer Service In-Reply-To: <1577312314.1432258.1663009273356@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1577312314.1432258.1663009273356.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1577312314.1432258.1663009273356@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Over the past year there's been a dramatic changing of the guard at SunPower. Pretty much all the top people have left, from the CEO on down. And they've made interesting choices, including to completely exit the DC mods business selling only their AC Equinox products. The SunPower of old is no more. marco On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 9:01 AM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Dear all those who know more than I, > > For 15 years I have been bragging about the GREAT SunPower customer > service. > > What has changed? I have spent hours on the phone, often times being > disconnected or left to perish on hold. I don't seem to be able to get > decent tech support or data recovery. > > Oh Great Spirits, Speak! > > > *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi* > *President* > > > *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE* > *Since 1987,* > * helping you and your Portland neighborsmove** towards an > environmentally sustainable future.* > > *503-238-4502www.SolarEnergyOregon.com > * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Mon Sep 12 22:39:25 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 19:39:25 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: <4AB3F059-0775-4342-8B56-9CF5CE891868@solarwork.com> Message-ID: No, I haven't. I'll do some testing tomorrow as we have 60 holes/taps to do in the above mentioned bussing On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:54 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Michael, > > Are you using kerosene as a cutting fluid? We've had > better luck with that in softer than steel metals. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > > On 9/11/2022 7:00 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house > > fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now > > we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars > > in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with > > slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover > > AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer > > sign off on our designs. > > > > I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper. > > I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to > > thru-bolting. > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palumbo131m at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 19:15:24 2022 From: palumbo131m at gmail.com (palumbo131m at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 19:15:24 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rebuild/Replacement for Harris Hydro Message-ID: <00d501d8c959$09b26c30$1d174490$@gmail.com> Wrenches, I have one of my old high head micro-hydro sites that has worked well with a Harris Turbine for many years now needing a rebuilt alternator and a new pelton wheel, or, possibly a new PM turbine. I tried contacting Dennis Ledbetter who gave me a number of years of good service after Don Harris retired. Dennis is now also retired (as am I, except for work in my off-grid neighborhood). Dennis's email bounced over to Jerry Ostermeier at APM Hydro, Grants Pass, OR I have a couple of questions for the group. 1. If I was to go with purchasing a new APM turbine it looks like a Model 1400PM would be a possibility for the 185' net head at 25 GPM site. The APM Hydro web site mentions a pelton runner called DELRIN. Does anybody have any experience with this? 2. Anyone with experience with APM's products and servicers I would appreciate your comments with an email to me at palumbo131m at gmail.com Thanks, David Palumbo Formerly operating as "Independent Power" Hyde Park, VT (802) 888-4917 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 19:28:44 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 17:28:44 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rebuild/Replacement for Harris Hydro In-Reply-To: <00d501d8c959$09b26c30$1d174490$@gmail.com> References: <00d501d8c959$09b26c30$1d174490$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I’d recommend contacting derik from high power hydro. 707-923-3507 He might have a replacement brass or SS runners and definitely has brushless motors Jay > On Sep 15, 2022, at 5:15 PM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Wrenches, > > I have one of my old high head micro-hydro sites that has worked well with a Harris Turbine for many years now needing a rebuilt alternator and a new pelton wheel, or, possibly a new PM turbine. > I tried contacting Dennis Ledbetter who gave me a number of years of good service after Don Harris retired. Dennis is now also retired (as am I, except for work in my off-grid neighborhood). > Dennis’s email bounced over to Jerry Ostermeier at APM Hydro, Grants Pass, OR > I have a couple of questions for the group. > If I was to go with purchasing a new APM turbine it looks like a Model 1400PM would be a possibility for the 185’ net head at 25 GPM site. The APM Hydro web site mentions a pelton runner called DELRIN. Does anybody have any experience with this? > Anyone with experience with APM’s products and servicers I would appreciate your comments with an email to me at palumbo131m at gmail.com > > Thanks, > > David Palumbo > Formerly operating as “Independent Power” > Hyde Park, VT > (802) 888-4917 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 19:33:26 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 16:33:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rebuild/Replacement for Harris Hydro In-Reply-To: References: <00d501d8c959$09b26c30$1d174490$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I"ve been running one of Jerry's delrin turbines for ten years straight. No signs of wear at all. I've also replaced dozens of Harris turbines with APM units. They are pretty sweet. On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 4:29 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’d recommend contacting derik from high power hydro. > > 707-923-3507 > > He might have a replacement brass or SS runners and definitely has > brushless motors > > Jay > > > On Sep 15, 2022, at 5:15 PM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Wrenches, > > > > I have one of my old high head micro-hydro sites that has worked well with > a Harris Turbine for many years now needing a rebuilt alternator and a new > pelton wheel, or, possibly a new PM turbine. > > I tried contacting Dennis Ledbetter who gave me a number of years of good > service after Don Harris retired. Dennis is now also retired (as am I, > except for work in my off-grid neighborhood). > > Dennis’s email bounced over to Jerry Ostermeier at APM Hydro, Grants Pass, > OR > > I have a couple of questions for the group. > > 1. If I was to go with purchasing a new APM turbine it looks like a > Model 1400PM would be a possibility for the 185’ net head at 25 GPM site. > The APM Hydro web site mentions a pelton runner called DELRIN. Does anybody > have any experience with this? > 2. Anyone with experience with APM’s products and servicers I would > appreciate your comments with an email to me at palumbo131m at gmail.com > > > > Thanks, > > > > David Palumbo > > Formerly operating as “Independent Power” > > Hyde Park, VT > > (802) 888-4917 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Sep 15 19:43:02 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 19:43:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rebuild/Replacement for Harris Hydro In-Reply-To: <00d501d8c959$09b26c30$1d174490$@gmail.com> References: <00d501d8c959$09b26c30$1d174490$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey David, Good to hear from you. There is a local alternator shop in Essex Jct (VT of course) that has rewound an old 12vdc Harris for a customer of mine several times. I don't know the name, but hopefully they still exist and you can find them via a search. Can't help you on the wheel. Good luck. On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 7:15 PM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > > > I have one of my old high head micro-hydro sites that has worked well with > a Harris Turbine for many years now needing a rebuilt alternator and a new > pelton wheel, or, possibly a new PM turbine. > > I tried contacting Dennis Ledbetter who gave me a number of years of good > service after Don Harris retired. Dennis is now also retired (as am I, > except for work in my off-grid neighborhood). > > Dennis’s email bounced over to Jerry Ostermeier at APM Hydro, Grants Pass, > OR > > I have a couple of questions for the group. > > 1. If I was to go with purchasing a new APM turbine it looks like a > Model 1400PM would be a possibility for the 185’ net head at 25 GPM site. > The APM Hydro web site mentions a pelton runner called DELRIN. Does anybody > have any experience with this? > 2. Anyone with experience with APM’s products and servicers I would > appreciate your comments with an email to me at palumbo131m at gmail.com > > > > Thanks, > > > > David Palumbo > > Formerly operating as “Independent Power” > > Hyde Park, VT > > (802) 888-4917 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 20:33:35 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 18:33:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rebuild/Replacement for Harris Hydro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: His website is https://www.homehydro.com/ Jay > On Sep 15, 2022, at 5:28 PM, Jay wrote: > >  > I’d recommend contacting derik from high power hydro. > > 707-923-3507 > > He might have a replacement brass or SS runners and definitely has brushless motors > > Jay > > >>> On Sep 15, 2022, at 5:15 PM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>  >> Wrenches, >> >> I have one of my old high head micro-hydro sites that has worked well with a Harris Turbine for many years now needing a rebuilt alternator and a new pelton wheel, or, possibly a new PM turbine. >> I tried contacting Dennis Ledbetter who gave me a number of years of good service after Don Harris retired. Dennis is now also retired (as am I, except for work in my off-grid neighborhood). >> Dennis’s email bounced over to Jerry Ostermeier at APM Hydro, Grants Pass, OR >> I have a couple of questions for the group. >> If I was to go with purchasing a new APM turbine it looks like a Model 1400PM would be a possibility for the 185’ net head at 25 GPM site. The APM Hydro web site mentions a pelton runner called DELRIN. Does anybody have any experience with this? >> Anyone with experience with APM’s products and servicers I would appreciate your comments with an email to me at palumbo131m at gmail.com >> >> Thanks, >> >> David Palumbo >> Formerly operating as “Independent Power” >> Hyde Park, VT >> (802) 888-4917 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Fri Sep 16 14:09:01 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 08:09:01 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] old-style SunPower mods and surface polarization Message-ID: Aloha amigos y amigas, Those of you who have been SunPower dealers over the years know that the early style SPR mods required a positive grounding in order to operate properly as far as produce max power. As in, without being positively grounded, a surface polarization occurs which has a significant detrimental effect on the array's output. As the transformer-based inverters (SMA, PVP, Xantrex, etc.) have been failing over the years and the supply of new-in-the-box old stock and refurbished old-style models dwindling, I've been waiting not so patiently for someone somewhere to offer a Potential Induced Degradation (PID) device to be readily available to be used between the pre-Maxeon SPR mods and a new transformerless inverter (e.g., SMA SB US-41). Looks like that day has arrived. iLumen in Belgium is now producing such a device and is U.L. listed. Attached is the spec sheet. I've been in touch with iLumen and have confirmed that if one purchases a minimum of (12), they'll cover the shipping. The cost for the outdoor model (IP65) is about $700 considering the euro to dollar exchange rate...again assuming no shipping cost. Less, than (12), assume a not insignificant adder to ship. If you're interested in contacting iLumen, contact me offlist. Aloha, marco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PIDbox-Mini-Indoor-Outdoor-EN.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 103367 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon Sep 26 19:03:58 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 19:03:58 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Message-ID: Hello All, Looking into the Enphase Ensemble system, I'm not sure that is a direction I want to take. It seems that they are extremely complicated and require a 30 hour training course to commission. Once installed, are they reliable? Do they require on going tweaks and firmware upgrades? Will the IQ8 micro inverters taper charge with phase shift? I am considering the possibility of AC coupling some to a pair of Radians. What is the most reliable and economically feasible way to provide backup power today? Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Media & Communication Action Project https://m-cap.org/ -- From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Sep 26 19:30:02 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 19:30:02 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I should probably write this in 48 hours after Hurricane Ian passes by here. But I'll give you a couple of personal opinions. Complicated? No. It's pretty dead simple since there is no DC aspect to consider. But there are a lot of little things, I'll call them quirks, to learn and understand to make commissioning easier. A strong background in the Enphase ecosystem makes it all pretty intuitive. I'm not sure how someone new to Enphase in general would see it. >From an installer perspective, you're taken out of the loop on quite a bit. You become pretty reliant on customer support for some things that don't work out of the box sometimes. There are pros and cons to this. There is a lot of remote diagnostics, resetting, updating, etc. And communications can be absolutely infuriating. The WiFi radio in the data monitor is embarrassingly weak. They didn't learn that lesson, and the comms between the gateway and batteries is also extremely poor, which means proximity and line of sight are of paramount importance. Batteries seem to fail updates and require resets initially, but once everything is up and running it seems reliable, except, again, the wireless communications aspect which sometimes results in frustration. But all things considered, once it's all set up it seems reliable, but time will tell. Back to Hurricanes. The 40 kWh limit is pretty pathetic for our market where people can easily consume 100 kWH per day in September. The bulk of that is air conditioning, which is also the #1 or #2 thing people want to back up in the first place. A 40 kWh whole house solution, realistically, is really a partial home backup when so many sacrifices are required. There is also a serious limit on the ability to support the surge requirements of central air conditioning. A soft start kit is virtually required, even with a maxed out 40 kWh system. I hope to have nothing additional to report after Hurricane Ian. But if some systems go off-grid for any significant amount of time I will certainly learn a lot and share the results. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Mon, Sep 26, 2022, 7:04 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello All, > > Looking into the Enphase Ensemble system, I'm not sure that is a > direction I want to take. It seems that they are extremely complicated > and require a 30 hour training course to commission. > > Once installed, are they reliable? Do they require on going tweaks and > firmware upgrades? > > Will the IQ8 micro inverters taper charge with phase shift? I am > considering the possibility of AC coupling some to a pair of Radians. > > What is the most reliable and economically feasible way to provide > backup power today? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Media & Communication Action Project > https://m-cap.org/ > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 19:33:55 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:33:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sun selector omni meter manual Message-ID: <69AEF78B-C51E-48D8-97B3-F78506084483@gmail.com> Anyone have a manual for an ancient Sun Selector Omni Meter? I’ve got to go visit a site with one and it’s been about 20 years since I’ve worked on one and don’t have a manual, nor could I find on online Thanks in advance Jay From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Sep 26 20:03:56 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 20:03:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Get out of there dude, my brother lives in Tampa I told him to do the same thing. On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 7:30 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I should probably write this in 48 hours after Hurricane Ian passes by > here. But I'll give you a couple of personal opinions. > > Complicated? No. It's pretty dead simple since there is no DC aspect to > consider. But there are a lot of little things, I'll call them quirks, to > learn and understand to make commissioning easier. A strong background in > the Enphase ecosystem makes it all pretty intuitive. I'm not sure how > someone new to Enphase in general would see it. > > From an installer perspective, you're taken out of the loop on quite a > bit. You become pretty reliant on customer support for some things that > don't work out of the box sometimes. There are pros and cons to this. There > is a lot of remote diagnostics, resetting, updating, etc. And > communications can be absolutely infuriating. The WiFi radio in the data > monitor is embarrassingly weak. They didn't learn that lesson, and the > comms between the gateway and batteries is also extremely poor, which means > proximity and line of sight are of paramount importance. > > Batteries seem to fail updates and require resets initially, but once > everything is up and running it seems reliable, except, again, the wireless > communications aspect which sometimes results in frustration. But all > things considered, once it's all set up it seems reliable, but time will > tell. > > Back to Hurricanes. The 40 kWh limit is pretty pathetic for our market > where people can easily consume 100 kWH per day in September. The bulk of > that is air conditioning, which is also the #1 or #2 thing people want to > back up in the first place. A 40 kWh whole house solution, realistically, > is really a partial home backup when so many sacrifices are required. There > is also a serious limit on the ability to support the surge requirements of > central air conditioning. A soft start kit is virtually required, even with > a maxed out 40 kWh system. > > I hope to have nothing additional to report after Hurricane Ian. But if > some systems go off-grid for any significant amount of time I will > certainly learn a lot and share the results. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022, 7:04 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> Looking into the Enphase Ensemble system, I'm not sure that is a >> direction I want to take. It seems that they are extremely complicated >> and require a 30 hour training course to commission. >> >> Once installed, are they reliable? Do they require on going tweaks and >> firmware upgrades? >> >> Will the IQ8 micro inverters taper charge with phase shift? I am >> considering the possibility of AC coupling some to a pair of Radians. >> >> What is the most reliable and economically feasible way to provide >> backup power today? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> Media & Communication Action Project >> https://m-cap.org/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 20:44:41 2022 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MDElectricSolar) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:44:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2273D664-8E33-453C-A8CE-446B146E0DF0@gmail.com> After installing 4 or 5 of them I avoid them, too complicated, too many comm issues, too many hours on the phone with tech support, too many days wasted with no compensation. Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar, Inc. 707-684-0064 mobile 707-884-1862 office www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar > On Sep 26, 2022, at 4:04 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hello All, > > Looking into the Enphase Ensemble system, I'm not sure that is a direction I want to take. It seems that they are extremely complicated and require a 30 hour training course to commission. > > Once installed, are they reliable? Do they require on going tweaks and firmware upgrades? > > Will the IQ8 micro inverters taper charge with phase shift? I am considering the possibility of AC coupling some to a pair of Radians. > > What is the most reliable and economically feasible way to provide backup power today? > > Thank you, > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Media & Communication Action Project > https://m-cap.org/ > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Sep 26 20:56:42 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 20:56:42 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I only leave for Cat 5. Haha. In all seriousness, I feel some level of obligation to be here as an "essential worker" in situations like this. I'm 2 hours south of Tampa, we will get wet, but the winds shouldn't be anything close to Irma 5 years ago. I have confidence in the Enphase systems despite the "limited" capacity. I installed a soft start for a client this morning to be sure. We shall see. Jason On Mon, Sep 26, 2022, 8:04 PM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Get out of there dude, my brother lives in Tampa I told him to do the same > thing. > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 7:30 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I should probably write this in 48 hours after Hurricane Ian passes by >> here. But I'll give you a couple of personal opinions. >> >> Complicated? No. It's pretty dead simple since there is no DC aspect to >> consider. But there are a lot of little things, I'll call them quirks, to >> learn and understand to make commissioning easier. A strong background in >> the Enphase ecosystem makes it all pretty intuitive. I'm not sure how >> someone new to Enphase in general would see it. >> >> From an installer perspective, you're taken out of the loop on quite a >> bit. You become pretty reliant on customer support for some things that >> don't work out of the box sometimes. There are pros and cons to this. There >> is a lot of remote diagnostics, resetting, updating, etc. And >> communications can be absolutely infuriating. The WiFi radio in the data >> monitor is embarrassingly weak. They didn't learn that lesson, and the >> comms between the gateway and batteries is also extremely poor, which means >> proximity and line of sight are of paramount importance. >> >> Batteries seem to fail updates and require resets initially, but once >> everything is up and running it seems reliable, except, again, the wireless >> communications aspect which sometimes results in frustration. But all >> things considered, once it's all set up it seems reliable, but time will >> tell. >> >> Back to Hurricanes. The 40 kWh limit is pretty pathetic for our market >> where people can easily consume 100 kWH per day in September. The bulk of >> that is air conditioning, which is also the #1 or #2 thing people want to >> back up in the first place. A 40 kWh whole house solution, realistically, >> is really a partial home backup when so many sacrifices are required. There >> is also a serious limit on the ability to support the surge requirements of >> central air conditioning. A soft start kit is virtually required, even with >> a maxed out 40 kWh system. >> >> I hope to have nothing additional to report after Hurricane Ian. But if >> some systems go off-grid for any significant amount of time I will >> certainly learn a lot and share the results. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2022, 7:04 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> Looking into the Enphase Ensemble system, I'm not sure that is a >>> direction I want to take. It seems that they are extremely complicated >>> and require a 30 hour training course to commission. >>> >>> Once installed, are they reliable? Do they require on going tweaks and >>> firmware upgrades? >>> >>> Will the IQ8 micro inverters taper charge with phase shift? I am >>> considering the possibility of AC coupling some to a pair of Radians. >>> >>> What is the most reliable and economically feasible way to provide >>> backup power today? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Drake >>> >>> Drake Chamberlin >>> Media & Communication Action Project >>> https://m-cap.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Mon Sep 26 21:37:08 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 18:37:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We're still installing Tesla Powerwalls in the SF Bay with good results. I perform price and feature comparisons from time to time and find that most other manufacturers are still playing catchup with the Powerwall. We're also experimenting with the Powerwall+ system which is significantly cheaper than 3rd party PV AC coupled with Powerwalls and has some design and operational benefits. I have a Powerwall+ on my home and have been happy with it so far, albeit only for a few months since installation earlier this summer. I know that Powerwalls have been in major short supply but maybe that will change? All that said, we're still keeping our feelers out for different systems on the market. A colleague of mine is going to try the Enphase IQ8 Sunlight Backup system if all goes as planned. He has very low consumption, much different than folks who would like (or need) to run AC during outages. Best wishes to those of you in the path of Hurricane Ian! August Luminalt On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 4:30 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I should probably write this in 48 hours after Hurricane Ian passes by > here. But I'll give you a couple of personal opinions. > > Complicated? No. It's pretty dead simple since there is no DC aspect to > consider. But there are a lot of little things, I'll call them quirks, to > learn and understand to make commissioning easier. A strong background in > the Enphase ecosystem makes it all pretty intuitive. I'm not sure how > someone new to Enphase in general would see it. > > From an installer perspective, you're taken out of the loop on quite a > bit. You become pretty reliant on customer support for some things that > don't work out of the box sometimes. There are pros and cons to this. There > is a lot of remote diagnostics, resetting, updating, etc. And > communications can be absolutely infuriating. The WiFi radio in the data > monitor is embarrassingly weak. They didn't learn that lesson, and the > comms between the gateway and batteries is also extremely poor, which means > proximity and line of sight are of paramount importance. > > Batteries seem to fail updates and require resets initially, but once > everything is up and running it seems reliable, except, again, the wireless > communications aspect which sometimes results in frustration. But all > things considered, once it's all set up it seems reliable, but time will > tell. > > Back to Hurricanes. The 40 kWh limit is pretty pathetic for our market > where people can easily consume 100 kWH per day in September. The bulk of > that is air conditioning, which is also the #1 or #2 thing people want to > back up in the first place. A 40 kWh whole house solution, realistically, > is really a partial home backup when so many sacrifices are required. There > is also a serious limit on the ability to support the surge requirements of > central air conditioning. A soft start kit is virtually required, even with > a maxed out 40 kWh system. > > I hope to have nothing additional to report after Hurricane Ian. But if > some systems go off-grid for any significant amount of time I will > certainly learn a lot and share the results. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022, 7:04 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> Looking into the Enphase Ensemble system, I'm not sure that is a >> direction I want to take. It seems that they are extremely complicated >> and require a 30 hour training course to commission. >> >> Once installed, are they reliable? Do they require on going tweaks and >> firmware upgrades? >> >> Will the IQ8 micro inverters taper charge with phase shift? I am >> considering the possibility of AC coupling some to a pair of Radians. >> >> What is the most reliable and economically feasible way to provide >> backup power today? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Drake >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> Media & Communication Action Project >> https://m-cap.org/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- August Goers Luminalt o: 415.792.6666 m: 415.559.1525 august at luminalt.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Tue Sep 27 17:50:14 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 15:50:14 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Energy/Sensata issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00ea01d8d2bb$20b52790$621f76b0$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks: Anyone else having issues regarding a total lack of tech support of Magnum products? We have a failed MS2812 inverter a customer bought last September of 2021, and we’ve tried repeatedly since August 16 to get any response. All we hear back is their auto-responder saying ‘they will be in touch with us shortly’. Frustrating! Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Tue Sep 27 17:55:41 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 14:55:41 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Energy/Sensata issues In-Reply-To: <00ea01d8d2bb$20b52790$621f76b0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <00ea01d8d2bb$20b52790$621f76b0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: For what it is worth, I don't recall seeing a Magnum/Sensata booth at the show formerly known as SPI last week. Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member (520) 204-6639 Solar Energy International http://www.solarenergy.org SEI Professional Services http://www.seisolarpros.com On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 2:53 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi folks: > > > > Anyone else having issues regarding a total lack of tech support of Magnum > products? We have a failed MS2812 inverter a customer bought last > September of 2021, and we’ve tried repeatedly since August 16 to get any > response. All we hear back is their auto-responder saying ‘they will be > in touch with us shortly’. > > > > Frustrating! > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roy at four-winds-energy.com Tue Sep 27 19:01:44 2022 From: roy at four-winds-energy.com (Roy Butler) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 19:01:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Energy/Sensata issues In-Reply-To: References: <00ea01d8d2bb$20b52790$621f76b0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Brian....Magnum was at SPI, not sure why though. It was a very small both with their quad stack and not much else. Roy Butler Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747www.four-winds-energy.com Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t. “The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.” Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 9/27/2022 5:55 PM, Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches wrote: > For what it is worth, I don't recall seeing a Magnum/Sensata booth at > the show formerly known as SPI last week. > > Brian Mehalic > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 > National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member > (520) 204-6639 > > Solar Energy International > http://www.solarenergy.org > > SEI Professional Services > http://www.seisolarpros.com > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 2:53 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi folks: > > Anyone else having issues regarding a total lack of tech support > of Magnum products?We have a failed MS2812 inverter a customer > bought last September of 2021, and we’ve tried repeatedly since > August 16 to get any response.All we hear back is their > auto-responder saying ‘they will be in touch with us shortly’. > > Frustrating! > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 10:00:36 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:00:36 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question Message-ID: <092BD156-68EC-41C7-864F-89C3D117E152@gmail.com> Hi All, I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark products? the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with them. he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by them for the loads/solar etc. He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t fixable via the web. He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a warranty issue. Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... And the list goes on. But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime in about issues?, Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences Jay From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 10:36:06 2022 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MDElectricSolar) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 07:36:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: <092BD156-68EC-41C7-864F-89C3D117E152@gmail.com> References: <092BD156-68EC-41C7-864F-89C3D117E152@gmail.com> Message-ID: <94FA41ED-74F7-4BD2-9EAB-C4507E62EFC0@gmail.com> I’ve installed over 30 of them, not a single issue, tech support has been great! Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar, Inc. 707-684-0064 mobile 707-884-1862 office www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar > On Sep 29, 2022, at 7:01 AM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > > I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark products? > > the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with them. > > he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. > > each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by them for the loads/solar etc. > > He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. > He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t fixable via the web. > He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. > > Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a warranty issue. > Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. > > The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... > > And the list goes on. > > But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime in about issues?, > > Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From maclewis1 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 11:10:55 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 09:10:55 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: <94FA41ED-74F7-4BD2-9EAB-C4507E62EFC0@gmail.com> References: <092BD156-68EC-41C7-864F-89C3D117E152@gmail.com> <94FA41ED-74F7-4BD2-9EAB-C4507E62EFC0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, Generally, Sol-Ark has been very good to work with for us. We've done about a dozen of them. We did have an MCU swap for a parallel stacking glitch. I could tell it was a known issue because the diagnosis was remote, took about 10 seconds and the shipping was about 2 days and has fixed the issue. My only gripe with Sol-Ark is the general weirdness of the generator integration. Not really much you can do to adjust or optimize, so this could be better. I suspect they will get this better over time. I would also like them to work to add a little timing bubble as parameters are getting updated. I think its confusing when you can't tell if a parameter "stuck" or not. A little visual feedback would be great. Overall, very good to work with as a company, but Im still getting used to their tech. On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 8:36 AM MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’ve installed over 30 of them, not a single issue, tech support has been > great! > > Michael D Nelson > MD Electric & Solar, Inc. > 707-684-0064 mobile > 707-884-1862 office > www.mdelectricsolar.com > www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar > > > > On Sep 29, 2022, at 7:01 AM, jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark > products? > > > > the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( > well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with > them. > > > > he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. > > > > each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by > them for the loads/solar etc. > > > > He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. > > He’s been through a field call required because the over the air > firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason > that isn’t fixable via the web. > > He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They > charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. > > > > Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under > warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a > warranty issue. > > Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. > > > > The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU > firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure > that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... > > > > And the list goes on. > > > > But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else > chime in about issues?, > > > > Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his > experiences > > > > Jay > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 11:24:42 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:24:42 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: <092BD156-68EC-41C7-864F-89C3D117E152@gmail.com> References: <092BD156-68EC-41C7-864F-89C3D117E152@gmail.com> Message-ID: Wrenches Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help Jerry On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark > products? > > the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( > well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with > them. > > he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. > > each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by > them for the loads/solar etc. > > He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. > He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware > update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t > fixable via the web. > He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They > charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. > > Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under > warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a > warranty issue. > Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. > > The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware > so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out > then they had to send him a new MCU…... > > And the list goes on. > > But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime > in about issues?, > > Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 14:52:46 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 14:52:46 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA alternative? Message-ID: <1A7464FC-7D60-4D71-B079-8AC7C75BEC3A@gmail.com> Esteemed Wrenches, I am a long time fan and installer of SMA string inverters. I have a project right now which is a ground mounted array of 12 Trina 380s, so just over 4.5 kW. SMA inverters seem to be unavailable for the foreseeable future. What would be your recommendations for an alternative? I know it’s unfashionable, but I’m not a fan of micro inverters. Thanks, Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From sky at ecologicalsystems.biz Thu Sep 29 15:40:40 2022 From: sky at ecologicalsystems.biz (Sky Sims) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 15:40:40 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA alternative? In-Reply-To: <1A7464FC-7D60-4D71-B079-8AC7C75BEC3A@gmail.com> References: <1A7464FC-7D60-4D71-B079-8AC7C75BEC3A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1751EBEE-DE81-444F-AA11-EA1DB2D1D25E@ecologicalsystems.biz> Fronius is a quality string level inverter with strong tech support, warranty and service. Sky Sims Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > On Sep 29, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Esteemed Wrenches, > > I am a long time fan and installer of SMA string inverters. I have a project right now which is a ground mounted array of 12 Trina 380s, so just over 4.5 kW. > > SMA inverters seem to be unavailable for the foreseeable future. What would be your recommendations for an alternative? I know it’s unfashionable, but I’m not a fan of micro inverters. > > Thanks, > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From tump at swnl.net Thu Sep 29 18:49:47 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 18:49:47 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA alternative? In-Reply-To: <1751EBEE-DE81-444F-AA11-EA1DB2D1D25E@ecologicalsystems.biz> References: <1A7464FC-7D60-4D71-B079-8AC7C75BEC3A@gmail.com> <1751EBEE-DE81-444F-AA11-EA1DB2D1D25E@ecologicalsystems.biz> Message-ID: Id like to have your contact at Fronuis for tech support. Im not having much luck. Off list is fine. THANKS > On Sep 29, 2022, at 3:40 PM, Sky Sims via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Fronius is a quality string level inverter with strong tech support, warranty and service. > > Sky Sims > Https://EcologicalSystems.biz > >> On Sep 29, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Esteemed Wrenches, >> >> I am a long time fan and installer of SMA string inverters. I have a project right now which is a ground mounted array of 12 Trina 380s, so just over 4.5 kW. >> >> SMA inverters seem to be unavailable for the foreseeable future. What would be your recommendations for an alternative? I know it’s unfashionable, but I’m not a fan of micro inverters. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Hilton Dier III >> Renewable Energy Design >> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 19:08:06 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 16:08:06 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA alternative? In-Reply-To: <1A7464FC-7D60-4D71-B079-8AC7C75BEC3A@gmail.com> References: <1A7464FC-7D60-4D71-B079-8AC7C75BEC3A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hilton With all the inverters out there SMA has been far ahead of all the rest, which inverter are you looking for, Fronius has been an issue, power one has been problematic, Jerry On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 11:53 AM Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Esteemed Wrenches, > > I am a long time fan and installer of SMA string inverters. I have a > project right now which is a ground mounted array of 12 Trina 380s, so just > over 4.5 kW. > > SMA inverters seem to be unavailable for the foreseeable future. What > would be your recommendations for an alternative? I know it’s > unfashionable, but I’m not a fan of micro inverters. > > Thanks, > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pieter at offgridenterprises.org Thu Sep 29 23:48:54 2022 From: pieter at offgridenterprises.org (pieter offgridenterprises.org) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 03:48:54 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: References: <092BD156-68EC-41C7-864F-89C3D117E152@gmail.com> Message-ID: We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. Pieter Huebner Off Grid Enterprises From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question Wrenches Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help Jerry On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi All, I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark products? the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with them. he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by them for the loads/solar etc. He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t fixable via the web. He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a warranty issue. Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... And the list goes on. But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime in about issues?, Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences Jay _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Fri Sep 30 00:09:14 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 00:09:14 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a dozen Sol-Arks In the field and all systems have been giving solid performance . The MCU board upgrade is standard and super well supported and easy and usually done in a preventative context. I consider that a small price to pay for all the Sol-Ark can do and the overall performance and what the feature set provides. As others have mentioned best tech support around. The Time of Use features are brilliant as are the robust MPPTs and the programmability in general allows me to optimize hybrid systems like no other inverter I know. For us it has replaced the venerable Sunny Island as our go-to for large off-grid systems. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 29, 2022, at 11:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. > Pieter Huebner > Off Grid Enterprises > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jerry Shafer > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question > > Wrenches > Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, > Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help > Jerry > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi All, > > I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark products? > > the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with them. > > he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. > > each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by them for the loads/solar etc. > > He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. > He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t fixable via the web. > He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. > > Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a warranty issue. > Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. > > The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... > > And the list goes on. > > But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime in about issues?, > > Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 08:57:32 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 06:57:32 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80FE26F0-4F53-46ED-9FF6-1E54EFB2CEE2@gmail.com> Hi all and thanks for the input. I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware. In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of time with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been monitoring all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up correctly installed, wired, and loads. this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which worked fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion capabilities and newer tech. Weird > On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. > Pieter Huebner > Off Grid Enterprises > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jerry Shafer > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question > > Wrenches > Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, > Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help > Jerry > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi All, > > I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark products? > > the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with them. > > he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. > > each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by them for the loads/solar etc. > > He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. > He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t fixable via the web. > He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. > > Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a warranty issue. > Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. > > The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... > > And the list goes on. > > But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime in about issues?, > > Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri Sep 30 12:02:12 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 10:02:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: <80FE26F0-4F53-46ED-9FF6-1E54EFB2CEE2@gmail.com> References: <80FE26F0-4F53-46ED-9FF6-1E54EFB2CEE2@gmail.com> Message-ID: One thing I can say:  trouble shooting problems over the phone has its limitations.  I had a customer issue with a system we hadn't installed that was quite vexing.  Turned out to be a loose main DC connection to the inverter.  Bizarre behavior as the connection heated up and the resistance varied. Ray Walters On 9/30/2022 6:57 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi all and thanks for the input. > > I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade > switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware. > > In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of > time with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been > monitoring all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up > correctly installed, wired, and loads. > > this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which > worked fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion > capabilities and newer tech. > > Weird > > > > > > > > >> On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via >> RE-wrenches wrote: >> >>  >> >> We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent >> results. All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters >> and have operated with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had >> commissioning questions our experience with Solark technical support >> has been outstanding, they have by far the best technical support in >> the industry. Although Solark helped design the system in question I >> suspect that there must be some finer points that were not shared >> with Solark, a load side wiring problem or perhaps an installation >> error that is causing the repeated failures. I suggest that your >> friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look for that >> oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. >> >> Pieter Huebner >> >> Off Grid Enterprises >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question >> >> Wrenches >> >> Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied >> back up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms >> issue, does not seem to have any more issues than OB and less >> than Schnieder, all are connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet >> BMS interface seems hardy, >> >> Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help >> >> Jerry >> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with >> sol-ark products? >> >> the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent >> installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum)  who’s had >> continuing nightmares with them. >> >> he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both >> offgrid. >> >> each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was >> approved by them for the loads/solar etc. >> >> He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. >> He’s been through a field call required because the over the air >> firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some >> reason that isn’t fixable via the web. >> He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box.  >> They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. >> >> Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back >> under warranty.  Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they >> agreed was a warranty issue. >> Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. >> >> The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU >> firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long >> to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... >> >> And the list goes on. >> >> But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone >> else chime in about issues?, >> >> Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his >> experiences >> >> Jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 12:09:37 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 09:09:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: References: <80FE26F0-4F53-46ED-9FF6-1E54EFB2CEE2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ray. Understand but loose connections can be any product and troubleshooting loose intermittent issues are the hardest to correct J Funtimes On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 9:03 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > One thing I can say: trouble shooting problems over the phone has its > limitations. I had a customer issue with a system we hadn't installed that > was quite vexing. Turned out to be a loose main DC connection to the > inverter. Bizarre behavior as the connection heated up and the resistance > varied. > > Ray Walters > > On 9/30/2022 6:57 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi all and thanks for the input. > > I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade > switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware. > > In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of time > with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been monitoring > all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up correctly > installed, wired, and loads. > > this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which worked > fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion > capabilities and newer tech. > > Weird > > > > > > > > > On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via > RE-wrenches > wrote: > >  > > We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. > All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated > with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions > our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they > have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark > helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some > finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem > or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I > suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look > for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. > > Pieter Huebner > > Off Grid Enterprises > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer > via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question > > > > Wrenches > > Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up, > both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not > seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are > connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, > > Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help > > Jerry > > > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > > I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark > products? > > the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( > well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with > them. > > he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. > > each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by > them for the loads/solar etc. > > He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. > He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware > update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t > fixable via the web. > He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They > charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. > > Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under > warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a > warranty issue. > Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. > > The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware > so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out > then they had to send him a new MCU…... > > And the list goes on. > > But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime > in about issues?, > > Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences > > Jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Fri Sep 30 15:33:27 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 13:33:27 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] heating pads for batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011201d8d503$85d50ce0$917f26a0$@OasisMontana.com> Hello all you brilliant people: Does anyone have something new for lightly heating a battery bank in a cold climate? Something reliable and reasonably efficient? We’ve been selling LFP batteries for a while, but few to our northern customers who cannot keep them from freezing. I can give advise about insulated battery boxes (and have one myself), but surely there must be something new out there. Here we see low temps of -20F below – sometimes -40….. I recently spoke with a fellow who offers heaters for gutters to prevent ice creep that can ruin your shingles or roof, but there must be something more adaptable than that. Any suggestions? Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Fri Sep 30 16:42:38 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 16:42:38 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Vent fan for Conext MPPT 80-600 Message-ID: Hi All, I need to get some replacement vent fans for a Schneider CC. Tech support gave me the replacement part number as Sunon pf80251b1-0000-a99. Looking around online, I cannot find anything with that exact part number, but I have found a bunch that is off by one digit - Sunon pf80251b1-000*U*-a99 (the difference being a "U" rather than a "0" in the middle part. Does anyone know if this matters? I would hate to get fans that have a different connector or something like that and be incompatible with the charge controllers. Separately, the existing fan in there is an ADDA ad0812ub-f71. I found one seller on ebay who has a few of these, so maybe I should just get them? Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Fri Sep 30 16:44:03 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 14:44:03 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] heating pads for batteries In-Reply-To: <011201d8d503$85d50ce0$917f26a0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <011201d8d503$85d50ce0$917f26a0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <78DDE069-2E73-459B-843D-B39896107BC9@solarwork.com> Reptile heater pads? Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Sep 30, 2022, at 1:35 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hello all you brilliant people: > > Does anyone have something new for lightly heating a battery bank in a cold climate? Something reliable and reasonably efficient? We’ve been selling LFP batteries for a while, but few to our northern customers who cannot keep them from freezing. I can give advise about insulated battery boxes (and have one myself), but surely there must be something new out there. > > Here we see low temps of -20F below – sometimes -40….. > > I recently spoke with a fellow who offers heaters for gutters to prevent ice creep that can ruin your shingles or roof, but there must be something more adaptable than that. Any suggestions? > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 17:09:32 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 15:09:32 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] heating pads for batteries In-Reply-To: <78DDE069-2E73-459B-843D-B39896107BC9@solarwork.com> References: <78DDE069-2E73-459B-843D-B39896107BC9@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <2D3BFF23-725F-4135-8AD6-6F500AF2B4CB@gmail.com> I’m looking at agricultural seedling mats. They are super tough,come in many sizes many come with thermostats. Reasonable flexible. Jay > On Sep 30, 2022, at 2:45 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Reptile heater pads? > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > >>> On Sep 30, 2022, at 1:35 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>  >> Hello all you brilliant people: >> >> Does anyone have something new for lightly heating a battery bank in a cold climate? Something reliable and reasonably efficient? We’ve been selling LFP batteries for a while, but few to our northern customers who cannot keep them from freezing. I can give advise about insulated battery boxes (and have one myself), but surely there must be something new out there. >> >> Here we see low temps of -20F below – sometimes -40….. >> >> I recently spoke with a fellow who offers heaters for gutters to prevent ice creep that can ruin your shingles or roof, but there must be something more adaptable than that. Any suggestions? >> >> Chris Daum >> Oasis Montana Inc. >> 406-777-4309 or 4321 >> 406-777-4309 fax >> www.oasismontana.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Sep 30 17:17:44 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 17:17:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] heating pads for batteries In-Reply-To: <2D3BFF23-725F-4135-8AD6-6F500AF2B4CB@gmail.com> References: <78DDE069-2E73-459B-843D-B39896107BC9@solarwork.com> <2D3BFF23-725F-4135-8AD6-6F500AF2B4CB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Search for a thread on this forum for use of reptile aquarium pads to warm BI battery cabinets. Posted within the last several months. On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 5:11 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’m looking at agricultural seedling mats. > They are super tough,come in many sizes many come with thermostats. > Reasonable flexible. > > Jay > > On Sep 30, 2022, at 2:45 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Reptile heater pads? > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Sep 30, 2022, at 1:35 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Hello all you brilliant people: > > > > Does anyone have something new for lightly heating a battery bank in a > cold climate? Something reliable and reasonably efficient? We’ve been > selling LFP batteries for a while, but few to our northern customers who > cannot keep them from freezing. I can give advise about insulated > battery boxes (and have one myself), but surely there must be something new > out there. > > > > Here we see low temps of -20F below – sometimes -40….. > > > > I recently spoke with a fellow who offers heaters for gutters to prevent > ice creep that can ruin your shingles or roof, but there must be something > more adaptable than that. Any suggestions? > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 17:19:23 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 14:19:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] heating pads for batteries In-Reply-To: <2D3BFF23-725F-4135-8AD6-6F500AF2B4CB@gmail.com> References: <78DDE069-2E73-459B-843D-B39896107BC9@solarwork.com> <2D3BFF23-725F-4135-8AD6-6F500AF2B4CB@gmail.com> Message-ID: So, what I’ve been using are ag seed tray heat mats. I have been using almost exclusively Discover AES or Helios. We use the Lynk II gateway with all systems and utilize its temperature controlled relays to activate the mats. The battery calls for heat, Imagine that. With open loop systems we use the Lynk II to command AGS also. On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 2:10 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’m looking at agricultural seedling mats. > They are super tough,come in many sizes many come with thermostats. > Reasonable flexible. > > Jay > > On Sep 30, 2022, at 2:45 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Reptile heater pads? > > > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Sep 30, 2022, at 1:35 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Hello all you brilliant people: > > > > Does anyone have something new for lightly heating a battery bank in a > cold climate? Something reliable and reasonably efficient? We’ve been > selling LFP batteries for a while, but few to our northern customers who > cannot keep them from freezing. I can give advise about insulated > battery boxes (and have one myself), but surely there must be something new > out there. > > > > Here we see low temps of -20F below – sometimes -40….. > > > > I recently spoke with a fellow who offers heaters for gutters to prevent > ice creep that can ruin your shingles or roof, but there must be something > more adaptable than that. Any suggestions? > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Fri Sep 30 21:56:13 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 21:56:13 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Early Hurricane Ian Report Message-ID: Widespread devastation, but only a handful of reported PV failures. Sanibel Island was thrashed and nobody has installed more panels there than we have. Post-storm aerial imagery shows that almost all systems survived. A couple of flat roof pitched systems had about 20% of panels break free with mounts and rails still intact base on what I can see. Mainland systems are largely intact with some having single or few panels plucked from random areas of arrays. No word yet on FPL's utility scale systems in Charlotte County. Suspect no major damage. There will be lots of roofs that need replacement where the PV system is unscathed. 5 years after Hurricane Irma and results are similar, maybe even more successful. That doesn't comfort the affected. Sad stories everywhere. More to come. Triage mode now. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 21:57:01 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:57:01 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] heating pads for batteries In-Reply-To: <011201d8d503$85d50ce0$917f26a0$@OasisMontana.com> References: <011201d8d503$85d50ce0$917f26a0$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Wrenches It might sound cheap but I have incandescent lamps, also used reptile tank heaters, watered heaters work too. Funtimes On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 12:34 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello all you brilliant people: > > > > Does anyone have something new for lightly heating a battery bank in a > cold climate? Something reliable and reasonably efficient? We’ve been > selling LFP batteries for a while, but few to our northern customers who > cannot keep them from freezing. I can give advise about insulated > battery boxes (and have one myself), but surely there must be something new > out there. > > > > Here we see low temps of -20F below – sometimes -40….. > > > > I recently spoke with a fellow who offers heaters for gutters to prevent > ice creep that can ruin your shingles or roof, but there must be something > more adaptable than that. Any suggestions? > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat Oct 1 04:46:36 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 04:46:36 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Early Hurricane Ian Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wish you the best in your efforts of repair and replacement. Did you evacuate or end up toughing it out through the hurricane? On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:57 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Widespread devastation, but only a handful of reported PV failures. > Sanibel Island was thrashed and nobody has installed more panels there than > we have. Post-storm aerial imagery shows that almost all systems survived. > A couple of flat roof pitched systems had about 20% of panels break free > with mounts and rails still intact base on what I can see. > > Mainland systems are largely intact with some having single or few panels > plucked from random areas of arrays. > > No word yet on FPL's utility scale systems in Charlotte County. Suspect no > major damage. > > There will be lots of roofs that need replacement where the PV system is > unscathed. 5 years after Hurricane Irma and results are similar, maybe even > more successful. That doesn't comfort the affected. Sad stories everywhere. > > More to come. Triage mode now. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Sat Oct 1 07:25:50 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:25:50 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Early Hurricane Ian Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I stayed home. I'm close to the river, but on high enough ground that I was pretty certain storm surge would not be an issue. The hardest part is getting employees back to work because everyone is affected in one way or another, and trucks can't roll without reliable fuel sources.and I can't have guys waiting hours in line for fuel only for the station to run out before they get to the front. I really want to start helping the affected, but it's going to be slow going. I have two battery jobs half-installed that I really want to complete. Oh, and there's the hole in my own roof caused by a 6 inch branch that turned into a missile. Like a true solar contractor I got on the roof in gale winds, yanked it out, and slipped in some flashing fashioned out of a Rubbermaid bin that I cut up. I guess I have to deal with that at some point! Thanks for the best wishes and concern. Jason On Sat, Oct 1, 2022, 4:47 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I wish you the best in your efforts of repair and replacement. Did you > evacuate or end up toughing it out through the hurricane? > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:57 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Widespread devastation, but only a handful of reported PV failures. >> Sanibel Island was thrashed and nobody has installed more panels there than >> we have. Post-storm aerial imagery shows that almost all systems survived. >> A couple of flat roof pitched systems had about 20% of panels break free >> with mounts and rails still intact base on what I can see. >> >> Mainland systems are largely intact with some having single or few panels >> plucked from random areas of arrays. >> >> No word yet on FPL's utility scale systems in Charlotte County. Suspect >> no major damage. >> >> There will be lots of roofs that need replacement where the PV system is >> unscathed. 5 years after Hurricane Irma and results are similar, maybe even >> more successful. That doesn't comfort the affected. Sad stories everywhere. >> >> More to come. Triage mode now. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Florida Solar Design Group >> _______________________________________________ >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 19:04:57 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 19:04:57 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: References: <80FE26F0-4F53-46ED-9FF6-1E54EFB2CEE2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jay, We have 50+ Sol Ark’s deployed and have just recently RMA’d our first unit for a failed grid input relay. Only failure so far and tech support was awesome throughout the process. I have been very impressed with the 15K unit. We have dropped some serious inductive motor loads on it with no issue. My understanding is that the MCU glitch with paralleled units was a known issue with the 12K, and has since been resolved. Kindly, Chris On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 12:10 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Ray. Understand but loose connections can be any product and > troubleshooting loose intermittent issues are the hardest to correct > J > Funtimes > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 9:03 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> One thing I can say: trouble shooting problems over the phone has its >> limitations. I had a customer issue with a system we hadn't installed that >> was quite vexing. Turned out to be a loose main DC connection to the >> inverter. Bizarre behavior as the connection heated up and the resistance >> varied. >> >> Ray Walters >> >> On 9/30/2022 6:57 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Hi all and thanks for the input. >> >> I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade >> switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware. >> >> In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of >> time with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been >> monitoring all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up >> correctly installed, wired, and loads. >> >> this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which >> worked fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion >> capabilities and newer tech. >> >> Weird >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via >> RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. >> All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated >> with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions >> our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they >> have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark >> helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some >> finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem >> or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I >> suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look >> for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. >> >> Pieter Huebner >> >> Off Grid Enterprises >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches >> *On Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer >> via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> >> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question >> >> >> >> Wrenches >> >> Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back >> up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not >> seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are >> connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, >> >> Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help >> >> Jerry >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark >> products? >> >> the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( >> well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with >> them. >> >> he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. >> >> each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by >> them for the loads/solar etc. >> >> He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. >> He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware >> update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t >> fixable via the web. >> He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They >> charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. >> >> Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under >> warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a >> warranty issue. >> Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. >> >> The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware >> so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out >> then they had to send him a new MCU…... >> >> And the list goes on. >> >> But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime >> in about issues?, >> >> Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his >> experiences >> >> Jay >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 19:50:32 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 17:50:32 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29F76794-E4D9-439E-A58E-CA7F50C40494@gmail.com> Hi Chris The 1.1 MCU issue might have been known but they did a horrible job with my buddy. 7 x MCU 1.1 boards 1 replacement inverter to fix a failed inverter turned out to be a warranty unit that wasnt fixed and of course didn’t work. And again this system was designed with their approval, and the loads are exactly as he told them and web connected After months they finally coped to the issue with 1.1 and got him 2 new units with 1.2 boards after trying 1.2 boards in the older units which didn’t work probably due to other damage. They are still trying to get him to pay $1500 for the inverter failure which was under warranty, it’s been 2 months and still not resolved. Total time of the project and issues 6+ months. Number of field trips 15+ Hours per trip 5+ Payment for those trips 0 While it’s been good to hear all the positive reviews here, what my buddy has gone through gives me huge concern to give them my money. Jay > On Oct 4, 2022, at 5:05 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi Jay, > > We have 50+ Sol Ark’s deployed and have just recently RMA’d our first unit for a failed grid input relay. Only failure so far and tech support was awesome throughout the process. > > I have been very impressed with the 15K unit. We have dropped some serious inductive motor loads on it with no issue. > > My understanding is that the MCU glitch with paralleled units was a known issue with the 12K, and has since been resolved. > > Kindly, > > Chris > >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 12:10 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Ray. Understand but loose connections can be any product and troubleshooting loose intermittent issues are the hardest to correct >> J >> Funtimes >> >>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 9:03 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> One thing I can say: trouble shooting problems over the phone has its limitations. I had a customer issue with a system we hadn't installed that was quite vexing. Turned out to be a loose main DC connection to the inverter. Bizarre behavior as the connection heated up and the resistance varied. >>> >>> Ray Walters >>> >>>> On 9/30/2022 6:57 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>> Hi all and thanks for the input. >>>> >>>> I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware. >>>> >>>> In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of time with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been monitoring all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up correctly installed, wired, and loads. >>>> >>>> this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which worked fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion capabilities and newer tech. >>>> >>>> Weird >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>> >>>>>  >>>>> We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. >>>>> >>>>> Pieter Huebner >>>>> >>>>> Off Grid Enterprises >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM >>>>> To: RE-wrenches >>>>> Cc: Jerry Shafer >>>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Wrenches >>>>> >>>>> Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, >>>>> >>>>> Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help >>>>> >>>>> Jerry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark products? >>>>> >>>>> the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with them. >>>>> >>>>> he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. >>>>> >>>>> each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by them for the loads/solar etc. >>>>> >>>>> He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. >>>>> He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t fixable via the web. >>>>> He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. >>>>> >>>>> Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a warranty issue. >>>>> Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. >>>>> >>>>> The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... >>>>> >>>>> And the list goes on. >>>>> >>>>> But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime in about issues?, >>>>> >>>>> Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences >>>>> >>>>> Jay >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 20:15:48 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 17:15:48 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: <29F76794-E4D9-439E-A58E-CA7F50C40494@gmail.com> References: <29F76794-E4D9-439E-A58E-CA7F50C40494@gmail.com> Message-ID: Honest Question, what is an MCU board and how to tell what version it is? On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 4:51 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Chris > > The 1.1 MCU issue might have been known but they did a horrible job with > my buddy. > > 7 x MCU 1.1 boards > 1 replacement inverter to fix a failed inverter turned out to be a > warranty unit that wasnt fixed and of course didn’t work. > And again this system was designed with their approval, and the loads are > exactly as he told them and web connected > > After months they finally coped to the issue with 1.1 and got him 2 new > units with 1.2 boards after trying 1.2 boards in the older units which > didn’t work probably due to other damage. > > They are still trying to get him to pay $1500 for the inverter failure > which was under warranty, it’s been 2 months and still not resolved. > > Total time of the project and issues 6+ months. > Number of field trips 15+ > Hours per trip 5+ > Payment for those trips 0 > > While it’s been good to hear all the positive reviews here, what my buddy > has gone through gives me huge concern to give them my money. > > Jay > > > > > > On Oct 4, 2022, at 5:05 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Hi Jay, > > We have 50+ Sol Ark’s deployed and have just recently RMA’d our first unit > for a failed grid input relay. Only failure so far and tech support was > awesome throughout the process. > > I have been very impressed with the 15K unit. We have dropped some serious > inductive motor loads on it with no issue. > > My understanding is that the MCU glitch with paralleled units was a known > issue with the 12K, and has since been resolved. > > Kindly, > > Chris > > On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 12:10 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Ray. Understand but loose connections can be any product and >> troubleshooting loose intermittent issues are the hardest to correct >> J >> Funtimes >> >> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 9:03 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> One thing I can say: trouble shooting problems over the phone has its >>> limitations. I had a customer issue with a system we hadn't installed that >>> was quite vexing. Turned out to be a loose main DC connection to the >>> inverter. Bizarre behavior as the connection heated up and the resistance >>> varied. >>> >>> Ray Walters >>> >>> On 9/30/2022 6:57 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>> Hi all and thanks for the input. >>> >>> I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade >>> switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware. >>> >>> In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of >>> time with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been >>> monitoring all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up >>> correctly installed, wired, and loads. >>> >>> this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which >>> worked fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion >>> capabilities and newer tech. >>> >>> Weird >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via >>> RE-wrenches >>> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> >>> We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. >>> All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated >>> with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions >>> our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they >>> have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark >>> helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some >>> finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem >>> or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I >>> suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look >>> for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. >>> >>> Pieter Huebner >>> >>> Off Grid Enterprises >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* RE-wrenches >>> *On Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer >>> via RE-wrenches >>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM >>> *To:* RE-wrenches >>> >>> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question >>> >>> >>> >>> Wrenches >>> >>> Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back >>> up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not >>> seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are >>> connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, >>> >>> Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark >>> products? >>> >>> the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( >>> well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with >>> them. >>> >>> he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. >>> >>> each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by >>> them for the loads/solar etc. >>> >>> He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. >>> He’s been through a field call required because the over the air >>> firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason >>> that isn’t fixable via the web. >>> He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They >>> charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. >>> >>> Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under >>> warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a >>> warranty issue. >>> Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. >>> >>> The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU >>> firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure >>> that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... >>> >>> And the list goes on. >>> >>> But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else >>> chime in about issues?, >>> >>> Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his >>> experiences >>> >>> Jay >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 20:37:04 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 18:37:04 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18E750B7-161D-4713-BF97-1CA154459598@gmail.com> Here is what it looks like > On Oct 4, 2022, at 6:16 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Honest Question, what is an MCU board and how to tell what version it is? > > >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 4:51 PM Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Hi Chris >> >> The 1.1 MCU issue might have been known but they did a horrible job with my buddy. >> >> 7 x MCU 1.1 boards >> 1 replacement inverter to fix a failed inverter turned out to be a warranty unit that wasnt fixed and of course didn’t work. >> And again this system was designed with their approval, and the loads are exactly as he told them and web connected >> >> After months they finally coped to the issue with 1.1 and got him 2 new units with 1.2 boards after trying 1.2 boards in the older units which didn’t work probably due to other damage. >> >> They are still trying to get him to pay $1500 for the inverter failure which was under warranty, it’s been 2 months and still not resolved. >> >> Total time of the project and issues 6+ months. >> Number of field trips 15+ >> Hours per trip 5+ >> Payment for those trips 0 >> >> While it’s been good to hear all the positive reviews here, what my buddy has gone through gives me huge concern to give them my money. >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> >> >>>> On Oct 4, 2022, at 5:05 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>> >>>  >> >>> Hi Jay, >>> >>> We have 50+ Sol Ark’s deployed and have just recently RMA’d our first unit for a failed grid input relay. Only failure so far and tech support was awesome throughout the process. >>> >>> I have been very impressed with the 15K unit. We have dropped some serious inductive motor loads on it with no issue. >>> >>> My understanding is that the MCU glitch with paralleled units was a known issue with the 12K, and has since been resolved. >>> >>> Kindly, >>> >>> Chris >>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 12:10 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>> Ray. Understand but loose connections can be any product and troubleshooting loose intermittent issues are the hardest to correct >>>> J >>>> Funtimes >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022, 9:03 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>> One thing I can say: trouble shooting problems over the phone has its limitations. I had a customer issue with a system we hadn't installed that was quite vexing. Turned out to be a loose main DC connection to the inverter. Bizarre behavior as the connection heated up and the resistance varied. >>>>> >>>>> Ray Walters >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/30/2022 6:57 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>> Hi all and thanks for the input. >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess he’s just been unlucky with the problems ( firmware upgrade switching to 50hz) and possibly just some random bad hardware. >>>>>> >>>>>> In regards to your thoughts of a install issue, he has spent a lot of time with sol ark reviewing everything. Loads, wiring, they have been monitoring all the data, photos, video etc with everything coming up correctly installed, wired, and loads. >>>>>> >>>>>> this system is an upgrade for an older XW ( 6kw units) system which worked fine. The customer wanted better monitoring, more kw, expansion capabilities and newer tech. >>>>>> >>>>>> Weird >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 29, 2022, at 9:50 PM, pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>  >>>>>>> We have dozens of Solark based installs and have had excellent results. All of our system have multiple parallel Solark inverters and have operated with out issues. On the rare occasion that we had commissioning questions our experience with Solark technical support has been outstanding, they have by far the best technical support in the industry. Although Solark helped design the system in question I suspect that there must be some finer points that were not shared with Solark, a load side wiring problem or perhaps an installation error that is causing the repeated failures. I suggest that your friend gets a fresh set of eyes on the system and look for that oversite we have all made and just can’t seem to see it on our own. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pieter Huebner >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Off Grid Enterprises >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2022 10:25 AM >>>>>>> To: RE-wrenches >>>>>>> Cc: Jerry Shafer >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] sol ark reliability question >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wrenches >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Solark issues, I have them living off grid, 3 phase and grid tied back up, both AC and DC coupled with only one intermittent comms issue, does not seem to have any more issues than OB and less than Schnieder, all are connected to Fortress 18.5's or Blue Planet BMS interface seems hardy, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would be good to know what issues he is having to accurately help >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 7:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’ve got a question about how many folks are having issues with sol-ark products? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the reason i ask is that i’ve got a friend, a good competent installer ( well versed in OB, Schneider, magnum) who’s had continuing nightmares with them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> he’s got 2 systems each on is a stacked pair of 12kw units, both offgrid. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> each system was designed by sol-ark, meaning the design was approved by them for the loads/solar etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He’s been through 7 MCU swaps. >>>>>>> He’s been through a field call required because the over the air firmware update caused the inverters to go into 50hz and for some reason that isn’t fixable via the web. >>>>>>> He had an inverter that didn’t work correctly out of the box. They charged him $2500 deposit for a replacement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then they charged him $1500 to fix the inverter he sent back under warranty. Thats right $1500 to fix a warranty which they agreed was a warranty issue. >>>>>>> Hes not going to pay but this $1500 has been going on a while. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The inverter they sent to replace the broken one had a older MCU firmware so wouldn’t stack and it took tech support way to long to figure that out then they had to send him a new MCU…... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And the list goes on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But Im asking, is this poor guy just an anomaly or will anyone else chime in about issues?, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Because at this point I have no desire to install one given his experiences >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jay >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> -- >>> Chris Sparadeo >>> >>> >>> C_802-369-4458 >>> H_802-728-3059 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > 530-921-0560 > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_3126.HEIC Type: image/heic Size: 471432 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coresolar at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 03:00:19 2022 From: coresolar at gmail.com (Corey Shalanski) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 02:00:19 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Onboard PV Charging Kit for Electric Vehicle Message-ID: Wrenches, One of my friends converted his 1955 Ford F100 pickup truck into an electric vehicle. He also had a nifty (mechanized) racking assembly installed in the bed that can deploy a fold-out 3-module PV array at the push of a button. If you aren't yet salivating, please see the attached image. He would like to add an 'onboard off-grid' battery + inverter kit that would essentially allow the truck to *plug into itself* (or, more correctly, into the sun). My first question is if anyone has ever attempted anything like this? or knows of a similar project? I'm taking suggestions for your favorite off-grid kit components (make/model)—system specs as follows: - Inverter: preferably around 3–4 kW output rating, can be either 120 or 120/240 Vac output since the EV charger is rated for both - Batteries: we're thinking LFP for the chemistry, around 3–4 kWh @ 80% DOD, bank voltage would depend on inverter model (or the other way around, if you prefer) - Charge Controller: wiring the modules in series would give 900 W / 118 Voc / 10 A Isc - Battery SOC Meter: ideally can be mounted on dashboard Thanks in advance for any electrifying ideas the group can offer! -- Corey Shalanski Jah Light Solar Portland, Jamaica -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1955 Ford F100 EV+PV.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 848428 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 08:52:47 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 06:52:47 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Onboard PV Charging Kit for Electric Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C3EBF7F-E623-410E-8459-B6A9DAA6539B@gmail.com> Hi Cory What a beautiful truck. Would like to see the video of the solar extending My question, is it possible to go direct to the EV battery? he/she just wants to charge the ev right directly off the panels? And what voltage is the main battery. Jay > On Oct 5, 2022, at 1:01 AM, Corey Shalanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Wrenches, > > One of my friends converted his 1955 Ford F100 pickup truck into an electric vehicle. He also had a nifty (mechanized) racking assembly installed in the bed that can deploy a fold-out 3-module PV array at the push of a button. If you aren't yet salivating, please see the attached image. > > He would like to add an 'onboard off-grid' battery + inverter kit that would essentially allow the truck to *plug into itself* (or, more correctly, into the sun). My first question is if anyone has ever attempted anything like this? or knows of a similar project? > > I'm taking suggestions for your favorite off-grid kit components (make/model)—system specs as follows: > Inverter: preferably around 3–4 kW output rating, can be either 120 or 120/240 Vac output since the EV charger is rated for both > Batteries: we're thinking LFP for the chemistry, around 3–4 kWh @ 80% DOD, bank voltage would depend on inverter model (or the other way around, if you prefer) > Charge Controller: wiring the modules in series would give 900 W / 118 Voc / 10 A Isc > Battery SOC Meter: ideally can be mounted on dashboard > Thanks in advance for any electrifying ideas the group can offer! > > -- > Corey Shalanski > Jah Light Solar > Portland, Jamaica > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1955 Ford F100 EV+PV.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 24975 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 08:55:44 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 08:55:44 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Onboard PV Charging Kit for Electric Vehicle Message-ID: <1F501484-80E0-412D-8E8E-CB72CE5F70E9@gmail.com> My first question is the voltage of the truck’s battery pack. If it’s below the 118V of the array you should charge the pack directly with just a charge controller to minimize losses. There is absolutely no reason to add another battery pack separate from the drive pack. The drive pack is undoubtedly heavy enough without a second pack that doesn’t contribute to propulsion. The inefficiency of solar>controller>battery>inverter>charger>battery would be a significant loss. If the propulsion pack is higher than 118 volts you have a problem. You’ll need a 1kW DC to DC converter that will boost the voltage to some value well above the pack voltage. I’m imagining that this would be difficult to find. Then you would need a charge controller that would tolerate the output of the DC-DC converter. Maybe just a voltage tripped relay and a DC contractor. It’s a slick looking rig. Good luck. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From maclewis1 at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 11:13:57 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 09:13:57 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Complying with 690.9(B) Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I have an inspector who doesn't like my heavy duty square D disconnect loaded with 20A Littelfuse FLSR RK5 Littelfuses for use as a OCPD and disconnect on a PV circuit. I am operating below the 300Vdc rating for this fuse but I'm having trouble finding documentation that states that this fuse is listed for use in PV systems. Does anyone know if these fuses have this listing for PV specifically? Its not easy to find if they do. Or perhaps a solar listed fuse designed for this disconnect? If not, is there another disconnecting device that can work for this? I am looking closely at the MNPV6-250 DISCO but again, the 300Vdc breakers that come with this are listed to DC branch circuit protection (UL 489A, IEC / EN 60947-2) not necessarily calling out PV specifically. Any input is appreciated! Thanks -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Wed Oct 5 11:56:51 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 11:56:51 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Complying with 690.9(B) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83ea5d65-0256-855b-2b3f-9bc628cea121@entech-engineering.com> I've attached a 2009 product specification from Littlefuse.  Their phone number is:1-800-TEC-FUSE. Chris On 10/5/2022 11:13 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > I have an inspector who doesn't like my heavy duty square D disconnect > loaded with 20A Littelfuse FLSR RK5 Littelfuses for use as a OCPD and > disconnect on a PV circuit.  I am operating below the 300Vdc rating > for this fuse but I'm having trouble finding documentation that states > that this fuse is listed for use in PV systems. > Does anyone know if these fuses have this listing for PV > specifically?  Its not easy to find if they do. > Or perhaps a solar listed fuse designed for this disconnect? > > If not, is there another disconnecting device that can work for this?  > I am looking closely at the MNPV6-250 DISCO but again, the 300Vdc > breakers that come with this are listed to DC branch circuit > protection (UL 489A, IEC / EN 60947-2) not necessarily calling out PV > specifically. > > Any input is appreciated! > > Thanks > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > * > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > > * > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Littlefuse RevisedSolarLineup12-09.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 399658 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Wed Oct 5 11:58:54 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 15:58:54 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Complying with 690.9(B) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mac, Bussman PVS-R-20 should work. Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2022 11:13:57 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Mac Lewis Subject: [RE-wrenches] Complying with 690.9(B) Hello Wrenches, I have an inspector who doesn't like my heavy duty square D disconnect loaded with 20A Littelfuse FLSR RK5 Littelfuses for use as a OCPD and disconnect on a PV circuit. I am operating below the 300Vdc rating for this fuse but I'm having trouble finding documentation that states that this fuse is listed for use in PV systems. Does anyone know if these fuses have this listing for PV specifically? Its not easy to find if they do. Or perhaps a solar listed fuse designed for this disconnect? If not, is there another disconnecting device that can work for this? I am looking closely at the MNPV6-250 DISCO but again, the 300Vdc breakers that come with this are listed to DC branch circuit protection (UL 489A, IEC / EN 60947-2) not necessarily calling out PV specifically. Any input is appreciated! Thanks -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coresolar at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:22:05 2022 From: coresolar at gmail.com (Corey Shalanski) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 11:22:05 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Onboard PV Charging Kit for Electric Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For those wondering about the battery pack, it was pulled from a Nissan Leaf—nominal voltage is 360 Vdc. So I don't believe it will be possible to charge the EV battery directly from the PV (or from the 'off-grid' battery bank). It is understood that there will be some not-insignificant efficiency losses involved in pumping the electrons between the PV and the EV battery. Just to clarify, the PV was added mainly to *demonstrate the concept* that onboard charging (to a limited degree) is possible. The off-grid battery is not meant to be the primary charging source. Once parked, the idea would be to get as much juice out of that battery as possible and then just plug in to the nearest utility-fired receptacle for the remainder of the charge. It has been awhile since I have specced any off-grid components - as in before lithium-based batteries took center stage. So I am mainly seeking recommendations on which equipment Wrenches would install "on their own house" (or on their own PV-powered pickup truck!). -- Corey On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 2:00 AM wrote: > > Wrenches, > > One of my friends converted his 1955 Ford F100 pickup truck into an > electric vehicle. He also had a nifty (mechanized) racking assembly > installed in the bed that can deploy a fold-out 3-module PV array at the > push of a button. If you aren't yet salivating, please see the attached > image. > > He would like to add an 'onboard off-grid' battery + inverter kit that > would essentially allow the truck to *plug into itself* (or, more > correctly, into the sun). My first question is if anyone has ever attempted > anything like this? or knows of a similar project? > > I'm taking suggestions for your favorite off-grid kit components > (make/model)—system specs as follows: > > - Inverter: preferably around 3–4 kW output rating, can be either 120 > or 120/240 Vac output since the EV charger is rated for both > - Batteries: we're thinking LFP for the chemistry, around 3–4 kWh @ > 80% DOD, bank voltage would depend on inverter model (or the other way > around, if you prefer) > - Charge Controller: wiring the modules in series would give 900 W / > 118 Voc / 10 A Isc > - Battery SOC Meter: ideally can be mounted on dashboard > > Thanks in advance for any electrifying ideas the group can offer! > > -- > Corey Shalanski > Jah Light Solar > Portland, Jamaica > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Wed Oct 5 12:38:01 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 10:38:01 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Frequency converter? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008601d8d8d8$d689cbc0$839d6340$@OasisMontana.com> Hey folks: A would-be customer is building a home in the Caribbean, where they utilize 230V, 50 hz. But he cannot find the appliances he wants in that voltage & hertz range; is there some large frequency converter that he can hook to their (230V 50hz) grid that’ll convert it to 120/240V 60 hz? He’s not too efficient, peak loads are apt to be around 20kwh…. Location is Dominica, with a reliable utility. Thanks for any ideas you may have! Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From august at luminalt.com Wed Oct 5 12:40:03 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 09:40:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Onboard PV Charging Kit for Electric Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been happy with Victron charge controller / inverter equipment, they seem to be very popular in the RV space. Here is a potential 3000 VA inverter model that might work, other sizes and configurations are available as well: https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-ii#downloads Note Victron makes charge controllers as well. I don't have any experience working with Lithium batteries for this application type, so don't have any recommendations there. Simpliphi seems to be popular and might be worth checking out. August On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 9:23 AM Corey Shalanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > For those wondering about the battery pack, it was pulled from a Nissan > Leaf—nominal voltage is 360 Vdc. So I don't believe it will be possible to > charge the EV battery directly from the PV (or from the 'off-grid' battery > bank). It is understood that there will be some not-insignificant > efficiency losses involved in pumping the electrons between the PV and the > EV battery. > > Just to clarify, the PV was added mainly to *demonstrate the concept* that > onboard charging (to a limited degree) is possible. The off-grid battery is > not meant to be the primary charging source. Once parked, the idea would be > to get as much juice out of that battery as possible and then just plug in > to the nearest utility-fired receptacle for the remainder of the charge. > > It has been awhile since I have specced any off-grid components - as in > before lithium-based batteries took center stage. So I am mainly seeking > recommendations on which equipment Wrenches would install "on their own > house" (or on their own PV-powered pickup truck!). > > -- > Corey > > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 2:00 AM wrote: > >> >> Wrenches, >> >> One of my friends converted his 1955 Ford F100 pickup truck into an >> electric vehicle. He also had a nifty (mechanized) racking assembly >> installed in the bed that can deploy a fold-out 3-module PV array at the >> push of a button. If you aren't yet salivating, please see the attached >> image. >> >> He would like to add an 'onboard off-grid' battery + inverter kit that >> would essentially allow the truck to *plug into itself* (or, more >> correctly, into the sun). My first question is if anyone has ever attempted >> anything like this? or knows of a similar project? >> >> I'm taking suggestions for your favorite off-grid kit components >> (make/model)—system specs as follows: >> >> - Inverter: preferably around 3–4 kW output rating, can be either 120 >> or 120/240 Vac output since the EV charger is rated for both >> - Batteries: we're thinking LFP for the chemistry, around 3–4 kWh @ >> 80% DOD, bank voltage would depend on inverter model (or the other way >> around, if you prefer) >> - Charge Controller: wiring the modules in series would give 900 W / >> 118 Voc / 10 A Isc >> - Battery SOC Meter: ideally can be mounted on dashboard >> >> Thanks in advance for any electrifying ideas the group can offer! >> >> -- >> Corey Shalanski >> Jah Light Solar >> Portland, Jamaica >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Oct 6 09:32:45 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 09:32:45 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning Message-ID: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> Our electrical supplier seamlessly transitioned from crimp on butt end connectors, that were listed for CU and AL, to unmarked ones that were approved for copper only. I became concerned since there was no marking. Calling two electrical suppliers, the guys at the counter had to look up the device to learn that they were listed for copper only. Talking to one of the counter guys, he agreed that electricians were probably using these for aluminum. Since the barrels will be insulated, it is not likely that inspectors will see them. The connectors are made of coated copper. I wonder how much of a problem this will be. Drake -- From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Thu Oct 6 09:41:54 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 09:41:54 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning In-Reply-To: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> References: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: You cannot use them with Al. The connection will disintegrate over time. I have pictures somewhere of mismatching rail bonding connectors that were gone in a year. Chris On 10/6/2022 9:32 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > Our electrical supplier seamlessly transitioned from crimp on butt end > connectors, that were listed for CU and AL, to unmarked ones that were > approved for copper only. > > I became concerned since there was no marking. Calling two electrical > suppliers, the guys at the counter had to look up the device to learn > that they were listed for copper only. Talking to one of the counter > guys, he agreed that electricians were probably using these for aluminum. > > Since the barrels will be insulated, it is not likely that inspectors > will see them. The connectors are made of coated copper. I wonder how > much of a problem this will be. > > Drake > > > > > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 14:07:18 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 13:07:18 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Frequency converter? In-Reply-To: <008601d8d8d8$d689cbc0$839d6340$@OasisMontana.com> References: <008601d8d8d8$d689cbc0$839d6340$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, this a Darryl kluge approach. Get a 50 Hz battery charger, a LiFePO battery. And a off grid inverter. 20 kW is tough, maybe a 15 kW inverter woild surfice. The battery plus battery chsrger should be sized to handle 300 amps 48 volts. 15 kW / 50 volts= 300 A. If the battery can handle 2C and the charger is 100 A you need 200 Ah SORRY I AM JUST RATTLING On Wed, Oct 5, 2022, 11:39 AM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey folks: > > > > A would-be customer is building a home in the Caribbean, where they > utilize 230V, 50 hz. But he cannot find the appliances he wants in that > voltage & hertz range; is there some large frequency converter that he can > hook to their (230V 50hz) grid that’ll convert it to 120/240V 60 hz? He’s > not too efficient, peak loads are apt to be around 20kwh…. Location is > Dominica, with a reliable utility. > > > > Thanks for any ideas you may have! > > > > Best, > > > > Chris Daum > > Oasis Montana Inc. > > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > > 406-777-4309 fax > > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at gosolar.co.nz Thu Oct 6 15:51:13 2022 From: john at gosolar.co.nz (John) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 08:51:13 +1300 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning In-Reply-To: References: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <001501d8d9bc$fee529e0$fcaf7da0$@gosolar.co.nz> There used to be a chart – supplied years ago – that listed all the metals and showed what was compatible – or not compatible with different metals. Sadly I can’t seem to find it, but one of the older guys might still have a copy of that chart. Cheers – John Veix, N.Z. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, 7 October 2022 2:42 am To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Christopher Warfel Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning You cannot use them with Al. The connection will disintegrate over time. I have pictures somewhere of mismatching rail bonding connectors that were gone in a year. Chris On 10/6/2022 9:32 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: Our electrical supplier seamlessly transitioned from crimp on butt end connectors, that were listed for CU and AL, to unmarked ones that were approved for copper only. I became concerned since there was no marking. Calling two electrical suppliers, the guys at the counter had to look up the device to learn that they were listed for copper only. Talking to one of the counter guys, he agreed that electricians were probably using these for aluminum. Since the barrels will be insulated, it is not likely that inspectors will see them. The connectors are made of coated copper. I wonder how much of a problem this will be. Drake -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 16:01:18 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 14:01:18 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning In-Reply-To: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> References: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Hi drake Can you give us a part number or picture? Thx Jay > On Oct 6, 2022, at 7:33 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Our electrical supplier seamlessly transitioned from crimp on butt end connectors, that were listed for CU and AL, to unmarked ones that were approved for copper only. > > I became concerned since there was no marking. Calling two electrical suppliers, the guys at the counter had to look up the device to learn that they were listed for copper only. Talking to one of the counter guys, he agreed that electricians were probably using these for aluminum. > > Since the barrels will be insulated, it is not likely that inspectors will see them. The connectors are made of coated copper. I wonder how much of a problem this will be. > > Drake > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri Oct 7 11:26:26 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 11:26:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning In-Reply-To: References: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: <8cbab67f6d3b5c599046119393bf0b27@redwoodalliance.org> Hi Jay, Hopefully the attached photo will come through. The Burndy YS28 & YS26 are rated for copper only. For copper and aluminum, YS28 A1 AND YS26 A1 are needed. Ilsco has butt end connectors that are rated for both. Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-10-06 16:01, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi drake > > Can you give us a part number or picture? > > Thx > Jay > >> On Oct 6, 2022, at 7:33 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Our electrical supplier seamlessly transitioned from crimp on butt >> end connectors, that were listed for CU and AL, to unmarked ones that >> were approved for copper only. >> >> I became concerned since there was no marking. Calling two electrical >> suppliers, the guys at the counter had to look up the device to learn >> that they were listed for copper only. Talking to one of the counter >> guys, he agreed that electricians were probably using these for >> aluminum. >> >> Since the barrels will be insulated, it is not likely that inspectors >> will see them. The connectors are made of coated copper. I wonder how >> much of a problem this will be. >> >> Drake >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Butt End Connectors.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 85116 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ilsco Butt End.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 42781 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Fri Oct 7 11:42:47 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 11:42:47 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled grid tie only inverter Message-ID: Hi All, I've got someone who wants to tie their off-grid system with a Magnum inverter (which I think is a 4024 PAE inverter) to the grid. Since the Magnum inverter cannot be grid tied, I was wondering if there is some kind of simple grid tie inverter that can be the grid interface, while keeping the existing system in tact. Otherwise, I see two paths here. The less expensive path would be to ditch the batteries and connect the panels to a grid tie inverter. Otherwise it seems that we will need to get another battery based inverter that is meant to be grid connected to replace the Magnum. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri Oct 7 12:59:34 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 12:59:34 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled grid tie only inverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The grid tie inverter can sell through the Magnum relay. When the grid goes down, it will feed the batteries. Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 CO Master Electrician's License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-10-07 11:42, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi All, > > I've got someone who wants to tie their off-grid system with a Magnum inverter (which I think is a 4024 PAE inverter) to the grid. Since the Magnum inverter cannot be grid tied, I was wondering if there is some kind of simple grid tie inverter that can be the grid interface, while keeping the existing system in tact. > > Otherwise, I see two paths here. The less expensive path would be to ditch the batteries and connect the panels to a grid tie inverter. Otherwise it seems that we will need to get another battery based inverter that is meant to be grid connected to replace the Magnum. > > Cheers, > Dave > -- > > [1] > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com [2] > c: (607) 288-2898 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://www.sungineersolar.com/ [2] http://www.sungineersolar.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Fri Oct 7 13:57:05 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 10:57:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning In-Reply-To: <001501d8d9bc$fee529e0$fcaf7da0$@gosolar.co.nz> References: <0d213a63fd376928caf5dc01262f776f@redwoodalliance.org> <001501d8d9bc$fee529e0$fcaf7da0$@gosolar.co.nz> Message-ID: <9DA63A6D-A6B0-4FDA-B71B-122EF49EC2A7@me.com> Are you just speaking of a galvanic corrosion chart John? See here. Happy Friday everyone, Nick > On Oct 6, 2022, at 12:51 PM, John via RE-wrenches wrote: > > There used to be a chart – supplied years ago – that listed all the metals and showed what was compatible – or not compatible with different metals. > Sadly I can’t seem to find it, but one of the older guys might still have a copy of that chart. > Cheers – John Veix, N.Z. > > From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > Sent: Friday, 7 October 2022 2:42 am > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Cc: Christopher Warfel > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Butt End Connector Warning > > You cannot use them with Al. The connection will disintegrate over time. I have pictures somewhere of mismatching rail bonding connectors that were gone in a year. Chris > On 10/6/2022 9:32 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: >> Our electrical supplier seamlessly transitioned from crimp on butt end connectors, that were listed for CU and AL, to unmarked ones that were approved for copper only. >> >> I became concerned since there was no marking. Calling two electrical suppliers, the guys at the counter had to look up the device to learn that they were listed for copper only. Talking to one of the counter guys, he agreed that electricians were probably using these for aluminum. >> >> Since the barrels will be insulated, it is not likely that inspectors will see them. The connectors are made of coated copper. I wonder how much of a problem this will be. >> >> Drake >> >> >> >> >> > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Fri Oct 7 16:23:38 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 16:23:38 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled grid tie only inverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Drake, Just to make sure I understand you correctly, I could tie in a new grid tie inverter on the load side of the Magnum inverter. Then when the grid is up, the power will be able to backfeed through the MMP175-30D panel to the AC input (which will get rewired to the grid). And when the grid is down, the Magnum inverter will be able to take the power from the grid tie inverter on the load side of the Magnum inverter to charge the batteries? Cheers, Dave On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 1:00 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The grid tie inverter can sell through the Magnum relay. When the grid > goes down, it will feed the batteries. > > > > Drake Chamberlin > > Athens Electric LLC > > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > --- > > > > On 2022-10-07 11:42, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > > I've got someone who wants to tie their off-grid system with a Magnum > inverter (which I think is a 4024 PAE inverter) to the grid. Since the > Magnum inverter cannot be grid tied, I was wondering if there is some kind > of simple grid tie inverter that can be the grid interface, while keeping > the existing system in tact. > > Otherwise, I see two paths here. The less expensive path would be to ditch > the batteries and connect the panels to a grid tie inverter. Otherwise it > seems that we will need to get another battery based inverter that is meant > to be grid connected to replace the Magnum. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Sat Oct 8 11:04:05 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2022 11:04:05 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled grid tie only inverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7b3f8f04637b751de1e882003a255780@redwoodalliance.org> Hi Dave, Right. Attached is a Magnum AC coupled line diagram and also an instruction sheet. On the line diagram, they show a diversion load, but you will likely use a protective relay, set to trigger when voltage goes over absorption for the batteries. Since Magnum doesn't have a voltage sensitive relay, you will probably want to use a Morningstar Relay Driver (manual attached) to control the protective relay. Best, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 CO Master Electrician's License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-10-07 16:23, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Drake, > Just to make sure I understand you correctly, I could tie in a new grid tie inverter on the load side of the Magnum inverter. Then when the grid is up, the power will be able to backfeed through the MMP175-30D panel to the AC input (which will get rewired to the grid). And when the grid is down, the Magnum inverter will be able to take the power from the grid tie inverter on the load side of the Magnum inverter to charge the batteries? > Cheers, > Dave > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2022 at 1:00 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > The grid tie inverter can sell through the Magnum relay. When the grid goes down, it will feed the batteries. > > Drake Chamberlin > > Athens Electric LLC > > Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 > > CO Master Electrician's License 4526 > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > --- > > On 2022-10-07 11:42, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi All, > > I've got someone who wants to tie their off-grid system with a Magnum inverter (which I think is a 4024 PAE inverter) to the grid. Since the Magnum inverter cannot be grid tied, I was wondering if there is some kind of simple grid tie inverter that can be the grid interface, while keeping the existing system in tact. > > Otherwise, I see two paths here. The less expensive path would be to ditch the batteries and connect the panels to a grid tie inverter. Otherwise it seems that we will need to get another battery based inverter that is meant to be grid connected to replace the Magnum. > > Cheers, > Dave > -- > > [1] > > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com [2] > c: (607) 288-2898 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- [1] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com [2] c: (607) 288-2898 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://www.sungineersolar.com/ [2] http://www.sungineersolar.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Magnum AC Coupled Line Diagram (1-May-2010).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 257350 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AN 0002 AC Coupling (Rev 5-10).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 158919 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Relay Driver Manual.01.EN.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 942281 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Oct 8 11:45:31 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 09:45:31 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled grid tie only inverter In-Reply-To: <7b3f8f04637b751de1e882003a255780@redwoodalliance.org> References: <7b3f8f04637b751de1e882003a255780@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Hi Drake I remembered that they make this product or they did. https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagDocs/64-00062%20Rev%20A%20%28ACLD-40%29_web.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Sat Oct 8 13:34:34 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 10:34:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled grid tie only inverter In-Reply-To: References: <7b3f8f04637b751de1e882003a255780@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: The ACLD was long ago discontinued. The Morningstar relay driver would work fine. I think Magnum limited the size of the grid tie inverter to 90% of the Magnum inverter max power. So 3960W for a MS4448PAE. Brad On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 8:47 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Drake > > I remembered that they make this product or they did. > > > https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagDocs/64-00062%20Rev%20A%20%28ACLD-40%29_web.pdf > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jj at aprsworld.com Sat Oct 8 13:38:52 2022 From: jj at aprsworld.com (James Jarvis) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 12:38:52 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled grid tie only inverter In-Reply-To: References: <7b3f8f04637b751de1e882003a255780@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Why was ACLD discontinued? -James Jefferson Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 (Sent from my phone. My apologies for spelling errors and brevity.) On Sat, Oct 8, 2022, 12:35 PM Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The ACLD was long ago discontinued. The Morningstar relay driver would > work fine. I think Magnum limited the size of the grid tie inverter to 90% > of the Magnum inverter max power. So 3960W for a MS4448PAE. > > Brad > > > > > On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 8:47 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Drake >> >> I remembered that they make this product or they did. >> >> >> https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagDocs/64-00062%20Rev%20A%20%28ACLD-40%29_web.pdf >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coresolar at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 13:29:46 2022 From: coresolar at gmail.com (Corey Shalanski) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 12:29:46 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Onboard PV Charging Kit for Electric Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For Jay and anyone else interested in how the module deployment mechanism operates, please see this video (starting around the 2:50 mark): 1955 Ford F100 EV Conversion/test drive https://youtu.be/-MrNITun0uM?t=170 Thanks for your interest, Corey On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 6:52 AM wrote: > > Hi Cory > > What a beautiful truck. Would like to see the video of the solar extending > > My question, is it possible to go direct to the EV battery? > he/she just wants to charge the ev right directly off the panels? > > And what voltage is the main battery. > > Jay > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Oct 10 15:06:01 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 12:06:01 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs Message-ID: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> Friends: I am sure all of you are aware of the skyrocketing costs for shipping. I get it that fuel prices are up and I want truckers to all earn a fair wage. However I can help but feel there might be some gouging. For instance, a $900 order for rail was quoted at $4,200 for shipping from Oregon to the central coast of California. Fortunately the vendor allowed me to arrange my own shipping. I used a website called Shiply and got a quote for just over $600 for the same order. The company I engaged, Globaltranz has been great in communicating concisely and promptly with me and the vendor. I think the beauty of using a broker is you can connect with shippers that might be travelling the desired route already and can fit your order into an LTL rig already on the road. The order is not here yet but it is on the way and it appears the transit is on time. I hope this helps some of you in procuring the parts you need in a timely and cost efficient manner. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Mon Oct 10 16:37:48 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 14:37:48 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs In-Reply-To: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003c01d8dce8$29491b50$7bdb51f0$@solarwork.com> We have started using pirateship.com which travels on UPS but is basically half the price. You print out the UPS label & drop it off. I think you can arrange pickup too. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of William Miller via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 1:06 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: William Miller Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs Friends: I am sure all of you are aware of the skyrocketing costs for shipping. I get it that fuel prices are up and I want truckers to all earn a fair wage. However I can help but feel there might be some gouging. For instance, a $900 order for rail was quoted at $4,200 for shipping from Oregon to the central coast of California. Fortunately the vendor allowed me to arrange my own shipping. I used a website called Shiply and got a quote for just over $600 for the same order. The company I engaged, Globaltranz has been great in communicating concisely and promptly with me and the vendor. I think the beauty of using a broker is you can connect with shippers that might be travelling the desired route already and can fit your order into an LTL rig already on the road. The order is not here yet but it is on the way and it appears the transit is on time. I hope this helps some of you in procuring the parts you need in a timely and cost efficient manner. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Mon Oct 10 17:13:49 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:13:49 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs In-Reply-To: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C4F97E6-41FB-4668-B53F-57C55D5223C3@mavericksolar.com> William, $4200 sounds like “Expedited” Shipping and that usually means a Hot Shot driver with single pickup truck and trailer driving door to door for just your items. LTL should never be $4200 unless we are in dire conditions. I hope your items arrive in excellent condition!! Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Oct 10, 2022, at 2:06 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Friends: > > I am sure all of you are aware of the skyrocketing costs for shipping. I get it that fuel prices are up and I want truckers to all earn a fair wage. However I can help but feel there might be some gouging. For instance, a $900 order for rail was quoted at $4,200 for shipping from Oregon to the central coast of California. > > Fortunately the vendor allowed me to arrange my own shipping. I used a website called Shiply and got a quote for just over $600 for the same order. The company I engaged, Globaltranz has been great in communicating concisely and promptly with me and the vendor. > > I think the beauty of using a broker is you can connect with shippers that might be travelling the desired route already and can fit your order into an LTL rig already on the road. > > The order is not here yet but it is on the way and it appears the transit is on time. > > I hope this helps some of you in procuring the parts you need in a timely and cost efficient manner. > > William > > Miller Solar > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > 805-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > CA Lic. 773985 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Mon Oct 10 17:49:44 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 15:49:44 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs In-Reply-To: <1C4F97E6-41FB-4668-B53F-57C55D5223C3@mavericksolar.com> References: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> <1C4F97E6-41FB-4668-B53F-57C55D5223C3@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: <00bc01d8dcf2$36424a20$a2c6de60$@OasisMontana.com> Globaltranz is da bomb. I’ve always been treated fairly by them, and they have helped me move goods to the Caribbean, Africa, Japan, South Korea, as well as throughout North America. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 www.oasismontana.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 3:14 PM To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches Cc: Maverick Brown Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs William, $4200 sounds like “Expedited” Shipping and that usually means a Hot Shot driver with single pickup truck and trailer driving door to door for just your items. LTL should never be $4200 unless we are in dire conditions. I hope your items arrive in excellent condition!! Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Oct 10, 2022, at 2:06 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: Friends: I am sure all of you are aware of the skyrocketing costs for shipping. I get it that fuel prices are up and I want truckers to all earn a fair wage. However I can help but feel there might be some gouging. For instance, a $900 order for rail was quoted at $4,200 for shipping from Oregon to the central coast of California. Fortunately the vendor allowed me to arrange my own shipping. I used a website called Shiply and got a quote for just over $600 for the same order. The company I engaged, Globaltranz has been great in communicating concisely and promptly with me and the vendor. I think the beauty of using a broker is you can connect with shippers that might be travelling the desired route already and can fit your order into an LTL rig already on the road. The order is not here yet but it is on the way and it appears the transit is on time. I hope this helps some of you in procuring the parts you need in a timely and cost efficient manner. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Mon Oct 10 18:46:46 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:46:46 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs In-Reply-To: <1C4F97E6-41FB-4668-B53F-57C55D5223C3@mavericksolar.com> References: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> <1C4F97E6-41FB-4668-B53F-57C55D5223C3@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: <005401d8dcfa$2d8d2870$88a77950$@solarwork.com> Most of our hot shot deliveries have been running $2,400, Bay area - Central Idaho thru a broker for our thermal collectors. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 3:14 PM To: william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches Cc: Maverick Brown Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs William, $4200 sounds like “Expedited” Shipping and that usually means a Hot Shot driver with single pickup truck and trailer driving door to door for just your items. LTL should never be $4200 unless we are in dire conditions. I hope your items arrive in excellent condition!! Maverick Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 On Oct 10, 2022, at 2:06 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: Friends: I am sure all of you are aware of the skyrocketing costs for shipping. I get it that fuel prices are up and I want truckers to all earn a fair wage. However I can help but feel there might be some gouging. For instance, a $900 order for rail was quoted at $4,200 for shipping from Oregon to the central coast of California. Fortunately the vendor allowed me to arrange my own shipping. I used a website called Shiply and got a quote for just over $600 for the same order. The company I engaged, Globaltranz has been great in communicating concisely and promptly with me and the vendor. I think the beauty of using a broker is you can connect with shippers that might be travelling the desired route already and can fit your order into an LTL rig already on the road. The order is not here yet but it is on the way and it appears the transit is on time. I hope this helps some of you in procuring the parts you need in a timely and cost efficient manner. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russo.lou at gmail.com Mon Oct 10 22:04:42 2022 From: russo.lou at gmail.com (Lou Russo) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 16:04:42 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] HomeGrid batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aloha All, I am considering doing a job with one of these (14kWH) with a Sol-Ark 12kW for a client who is demanding them. Anyone have any recent experience with them? The price is good but all else is pretty mediocre. Aloha, Lou Russo (808) 345 6762 On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 4:46 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The cycle life sounds good the warranty cycle for off grid is far less > than blue planet and fortress. If you compare the fortress x 2, 18.5's with > a better warranty it comes out cheaper. I do see a display but l only see > volts. Pretty low surge, is there US warranty administration? Good luck, > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:24 PM Kirpal via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Yall! >> Anyone used HomeGrid batteries? We are just getting ready to pair them >> with some Outback and Sol Ark systems.. They have a compelling price, form >> and feature set. >> Hoping to hear of any issues before we jump in too deep with them.. >> 100 thanks for any thoughts! >> Cheers. >> Kirpal >> Oregon Solarworks >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 09:08:49 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 06:08:49 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] HomeGrid batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm curious what you consider mediocre about the HomeGrid? Brad On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:07 PM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Aloha All, > > I am considering doing a job with one of these (14kWH) with a Sol-Ark 12kW > for a client who is demanding them. Anyone have any recent experience with > them? > The price is good but all else is pretty mediocre. > > Aloha, > > Lou Russo > (808) 345 6762 > > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 4:46 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> The cycle life sounds good the warranty cycle for off grid is far less >> than blue planet and fortress. If you compare the fortress x 2, 18.5's with >> a better warranty it comes out cheaper. I do see a display but l only see >> volts. Pretty low surge, is there US warranty administration? Good luck, >> >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:24 PM Kirpal via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Yall! >>> Anyone used HomeGrid batteries? We are just getting ready to pair them >>> with some Outback and Sol Ark systems.. They have a compelling price, form >>> and feature set. >>> Hoping to hear of any issues before we jump in too deep with them.. >>> 100 thanks for any thoughts! >>> Cheers. >>> Kirpal >>> Oregon Solarworks >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 09:55:40 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 06:55:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs In-Reply-To: <005401d8dcfa$2d8d2870$88a77950$@solarwork.com> References: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> <1C4F97E6-41FB-4668-B53F-57C55D5223C3@mavericksolar.com> <005401d8dcfa$2d8d2870$88a77950$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: One down side to arranging your own shipping is that you are also usually shifting the responsibility for any damage upon yourself to deal with in case you need to make a claim.. Whereas if your distributor ships it they are responsible for the claim process. Chunks of metal like many racking systems might be less risky to ship as they are a bit harder to damage than solar modules or other electronics.You might choose which shipments you ship or choose to have shipped. But yes, shipping prices have gone wonky in some cases! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 3:48 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Most of our hot shot deliveries have been running $2,400, Bay area - > Central Idaho thru a broker for our thermal collectors. > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 3:14 PM > *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> > *Cc:* Maverick Brown > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs > > > > William, > > > > $4200 sounds like “Expedited” Shipping and that usually means a Hot Shot > driver with single pickup truck and trailer driving door to door for just > your items. LTL should never be $4200 unless we are in dire conditions. > > > > I hope your items arrive in excellent condition!! > > > > Maverick > > > > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > > On Oct 10, 2022, at 2:06 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > > > Friends: > > > > I am sure all of you are aware of the skyrocketing costs for shipping. I > get it that fuel prices are up and I want truckers to all earn a fair > wage. However I can help but feel there might be some gouging. For > instance, a $900 order for rail was quoted at $4,200 for shipping from > Oregon to the central coast of California. > > > > Fortunately the vendor allowed me to arrange my own shipping. I used a > website called Shiply and got a quote for just over $600 for the same > order. The company I engaged, Globaltranz has been great in communicating > concisely and promptly with me and the vendor. > > > > I think the beauty of using a broker is you can connect with shippers that > might be travelling the desired route already and can fit your order into > an LTL rig already on the road. > > > > The order is not here yet but it is on the way and it appears the transit > is on time. > > > > I hope this helps some of you in procuring the parts you need in a timely > and cost efficient manner. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Oct 11 10:51:17 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 07:51:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs In-Reply-To: References: <455d8090440465452e1ae7f4a93fd4e7@mail.gmail.com> <1C4F97E6-41FB-4668-B53F-57C55D5223C3@mavericksolar.com> <005401d8dcfa$2d8d2870$88a77950$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Kirpal: Rail is actually more likely to be damaged. It’s hard to find pallets long enough and the ends get dinged by forks. I got insurance for $50 and ordered a couple extra. William On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 6:56 AM Kirpal via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > One down side to arranging your own shipping is that you are also usually > shifting the responsibility for any damage upon yourself to deal with in > case you need to make a claim.. Whereas if your distributor ships it they > are responsible for the claim process. Chunks of metal like many racking > systems might be less risky to ship as they are a bit harder to damage than > solar modules or other electronics.You might choose which shipments you > ship or choose to have shipped. But yes, shipping prices have gone wonky > in some cases! > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 3:48 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Most of our hot shot deliveries have been running $2,400, Bay area - >> Central Idaho thru a broker for our thermal collectors. >> >> >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 3:14 PM >> *To:* william at millersolar.com; RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> >> *Cc:* Maverick Brown >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Shipping costs >> >> >> >> William, >> >> >> >> $4200 sounds like “Expedited” Shipping and that usually means a Hot Shot >> driver with single pickup truck and trailer driving door to door for just >> your items. LTL should never be $4200 unless we are in dire conditions. >> >> >> >> I hope your items arrive in excellent condition!! >> >> >> >> Maverick >> >> >> >> >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* >> >> * • Solar Commander Remote Power* >> >> >> * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com >> 512-460-9825 >> >> >> >> On Oct 10, 2022, at 2:06 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> Friends: >> >> >> >> I am sure all of you are aware of the skyrocketing costs for shipping. I >> get it that fuel prices are up and I want truckers to all earn a fair >> wage. However I can help but feel there might be some gouging. For >> instance, a $900 order for rail was quoted at $4,200 for shipping from >> Oregon to the central coast of California. >> >> >> >> Fortunately the vendor allowed me to arrange my own shipping. I used a >> website called Shiply and got a quote for just over $600 for the same >> order. The company I engaged, Globaltranz has been great in communicating >> concisely and promptly with me and the vendor. >> >> >> >> I think the beauty of using a broker is you can connect with shippers >> that might be travelling the desired route already and can fit your order >> into an LTL rig already on the road. >> >> >> >> The order is not here yet but it is on the way and it appears the transit >> is on time. >> >> >> >> I hope this helps some of you in procuring the parts you need in a timely >> and cost efficient manner. >> >> >> >> William >> >> >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Tue Oct 11 11:00:25 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:00:25 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Megger Recommendations Message-ID: Wrenches, In order to step up our commissioning and testing game and to take proactive steps to spot isolation faults and test insulation resistance prior to our systems getting PTO it is time to invest in a Megger. I am looking for your recommendations for being able to test both AC (single and three phase) and DC (600 to 1000 Vdc) conductors in a wide range of sizes typical to both residential and commercial systems. Ideally the equipment has the option to test to either bare copper or use MC4 leads. Am I foolish to look for a single unit that tests both AC and DC or should I focus on two pieces of equipment? What is your experience with insulation resistance testing through RSDs, MLPEs, and modules? Are there brands that specifically state this is a no-go? Are there testers that can assist in providing a percentage from + or - to help point out the trouble spot or am I only going to find string-level detail? Any recommendations Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager m. (406) 249-6841 | o. (406) 551-6135 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russo.lou at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 11:50:11 2022 From: russo.lou at gmail.com (Lou Russo) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 05:50:11 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] HomeGrid batteries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That was a bit of a cavalier statement on my part. On paper the tech specs look good. The warranty (60% after ten years or 3650 cycles) and initial track record is what I think is mediocre. . I guess in comparison to Blue Planet most battery warranties look mediocre. Aloha, Lou Russo (808) 345 6762 On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 3:09 AM Bradley Bassett wrote: > I'm curious what you consider mediocre about the HomeGrid? > > Brad > > On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 7:07 PM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Aloha All, >> >> I am considering doing a job with one of these (14kWH) with a Sol-Ark >> 12kW for a client who is demanding them. Anyone have any recent >> experience with them? >> The price is good but all else is pretty mediocre. >> >> Aloha, >> >> Lou Russo >> (808) 345 6762 >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 4:46 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> The cycle life sounds good the warranty cycle for off grid is far less >>> than blue planet and fortress. If you compare the fortress x 2, 18.5's with >>> a better warranty it comes out cheaper. I do see a display but l only see >>> volts. Pretty low surge, is there US warranty administration? Good luck, >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022, 6:24 PM Kirpal via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Yall! >>>> Anyone used HomeGrid batteries? We are just getting ready to pair them >>>> with some Outback and Sol Ark systems.. They have a compelling price, form >>>> and feature set. >>>> Hoping to hear of any issues before we jump in too deep with them.. >>>> 100 thanks for any thoughts! >>>> Cheers. >>>> Kirpal >>>> Oregon Solarworks >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Oct 11 11:54:52 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 11:54:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for remote controlled contactors Message-ID: Hi, I’m looking for suggestions on a remote control 60 amp contactor. It can either be true wireless or send a signal down an AC power line to open / close contact at the other end. I’m trying to figure out a non-wired way to turn an AC coupled inverter off when the generator is running, as advised by outback and others. All suggestions welcome thank you. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Tue Oct 11 13:46:50 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:46:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for remote controlled contactors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’ll usually use a 60 amp contactor with 240Vac coil. The generator powers the coil and opens the Normally Closed contacts disconnecting the grid tie inverter. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:26 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi, > I’m looking for suggestions on a remote control 60 amp contactor. It can either be true wireless or send a signal down an AC power line to open / close contact at the other end. > > I’m trying to figure out a non-wired way to turn an AC coupled inverter off when the generator is running, as advised by outback and others. > > All suggestions welcome thank you. > -- > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! > www.vermont.solar > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Oct 11 16:22:13 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 16:22:13 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for remote controlled contactors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not a fan of this strategy because it is not failsafe. Contactors fail. When the coil fails to open the contactor, you will have the PV AC coupled with the generator If he normally closed contactor is used in this manner. I think the question needs to be the converse: How do you turn the PV on remotely only when the generator is not running. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:45 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’ll usually use a 60 amp contactor with 240Vac coil. > > The generator powers the coil and opens the Normally Closed contacts > disconnecting the grid tie inverter. > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:26 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi, > I’m looking for suggestions on a remote control 60 amp contactor. It can > either be true wireless or send a signal down an AC power line to open / > close contact at the other end. > > I’m trying to figure out a non-wired way to turn an AC coupled inverter > off when the generator is running, as advised by outback and others. > > All suggestions welcome thank you. > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Wed Oct 12 07:42:52 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 07:42:52 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for remote controlled contactors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You are correct on this. The failure of any control hardware, IO's / relays / contactor logic along the way from generator sense to PV contactor should result in the coupled grid-tie PV inverter disconnected. Which means the contactor at the PV inverter should be energized "closed" (so PV AC connected normally open) under normal operation (genny off, PV on). Wired as such, It can be done with off the shelf components, and remotely by adding some controlbyweb.com controllers. On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 7:49 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I'm not a fan of this strategy because it is not failsafe. Contactors > fail. When the coil fails to open the contactor, you will have the PV AC > coupled with the generator If he normally closed contactor is used in this > manner. > > I think the question needs to be the converse: How do you turn the PV on > remotely only when the generator is not running. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:45 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I’ll usually use a 60 amp contactor with 240Vac coil. >> >> The generator powers the coil and opens the Normally Closed contacts >> disconnecting the grid tie inverter. >> >> Maverick Brown >> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 >> *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* >> * • Solar Commander Remote Power* >> >> * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com >> 512-460-9825 >> >> >> On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:26 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I’m looking for suggestions on a remote control 60 amp contactor. It can >> either be true wireless or send a signal down an AC power line to open / >> close contact at the other end. >> >> I’m trying to figure out a non-wired way to turn an AC coupled inverter >> off when the generator is running, as advised by outback and others. >> >> All suggestions welcome thank you. >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> _______________________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Wed Oct 12 11:06:12 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 11:06:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for remote controlled contactors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0d16bb048d45b5875db2a80f2592e8c0@redwoodalliance.org> I haven't had problems with contactors failing. I suspect that a lot of the problems on battery systems happen when contactors are controlled at battery voltage. The nominal voltage of the system is not what the coil will see. A 48 VDC coil might experience 63 VDC. A resistor needs to be put in series with the coil to prevent over voltage. It's value needs to be calculated so that it will function, within tolerance, at both the maximum high and minimum low voltages. A 240 V AC contactor coil, on the output of the generator, is quite reliable. The voltage it sees is within tolerance and the coil is generally not activated for extended periods (days or weeks or even years at a time). Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 CO Master Electrician's License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-10-12 07:42, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > You are correct on this. > > The failure of any control hardware, IO's / relays / contactor logic along the way from generator sense to PV contactor should result in the coupled grid-tie PV inverter disconnected. Which means the contactor at the PV inverter should be energized "closed" (so PV AC connected normally open) under normal operation (genny off, PV on). > > Wired as such, It can be done with off the shelf components, and remotely by adding some controlbyweb.com [1] controllers. > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 7:49 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > I'm not a fan of this strategy because it is not failsafe. Contactors fail. When the coil fails to open the contactor, you will have the PV AC coupled with the generator If he normally closed contactor is used in this manner. > > I think the question needs to be the converse: How do you turn the PV on remotely only when the generator is not running. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:45 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches wrote: > I'll usually use a 60 amp contactor with 240Vac coil. > > The generator powers the coil and opens the Normally Closed contacts disconnecting the grid tie inverter. > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > * Solar Commander Remote Power > * SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:26 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi, > I'm looking for suggestions on a remote control 60 amp contactor. It can either be true wireless or send a signal down an AC power line to open / close contact at the other end. > > I'm trying to figure out a non-wired way to turn an AC coupled inverter off when the generator is running, as advised by outback and others. > > All suggestions welcome thank you. -- > > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > > _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ > > www.vermont.solar [2] > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ www.vermont.solar [2] dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://controlbyweb.com [2] https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645&sdata=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Oct 12 11:18:46 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 11:18:46 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for remote controlled contactors In-Reply-To: <0d16bb048d45b5875db2a80f2592e8c0@redwoodalliance.org> References: <0d16bb048d45b5875db2a80f2592e8c0@redwoodalliance.org> Message-ID: Ask any HVAC tech how many 240V contractors they replaced this week alone on condenser units. They carry boxES on their trucks around here. Granted, those are engaged far more frequently than in a PV system application, enduring many cycles per day. But it's still not a failsafe solution. In my opinion, a PV shedding contactor must only be able to fail in the open position. Jason On Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 11:06 AM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I haven't had problems with contactors failing. I suspect that a lot of > the problems on battery systems happen when contactors are controlled at > battery voltage. > > The nominal voltage of the system is not what the coil will see. A 48 VDC > coil might experience 63 VDC. A resistor needs to be put in series with the > coil to prevent over voltage. It's value needs to be calculated so that it > will function, within tolerance, at both the maximum high and minimum low > voltages. > > A 240 V AC contactor coil, on the output of the generator, is quite > reliable. The voltage it sees is within tolerance and the coil is generally > not activated for extended periods (days or weeks or even years at a time). > > Drake > > > Drake Chamberlin > > Athens Electric LLC > > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > --- > > > > On 2022-10-12 07:42, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > > You are correct on this. > > The failure of any control hardware, IO's / relays / contactor logic > along the way from generator sense to PV contactor should result in the > coupled grid-tie PV inverter disconnected. Which means the contactor at the > PV inverter should be energized "closed" (so PV AC connected normally open) > under normal operation (genny off, PV on). > > Wired as such, It can be done with off the shelf components, and remotely > by adding some controlbyweb.com controllers. > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 7:49 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I'm not a fan of this strategy because it is not failsafe. Contactors > fail. When the coil fails to open the contactor, you will have the PV AC > coupled with the generator If he normally closed contactor is used in this > manner. > > I think the question needs to be the converse: How do you turn the PV on > remotely only when the generator is not running. > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 2:45 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I'll usually use a 60 amp contactor with 240Vac coil. > > The generator powers the coil and opens the Normally Closed contacts > disconnecting the grid tie inverter. > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:26 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi, > I'm looking for suggestions on a remote control 60 amp contactor. It can > either be true wireless or send a signal down an AC power line to open / > close contact at the other end. > > I'm trying to figure out a non-wired way to turn an AC coupled inverter > off when the generator is running, as advised by outback and others. > > All suggestions welcome thank you. > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Oct 12 19:26:04 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 16:26:04 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi with SW inverters Message-ID: Friends: I have an elderly client with a dual SW system and group 8 AM batteries. Due to a generator and charge control failure the AGMs failed after just 3 years. I don’t blame the batteries, they were likely chronically undercharged for some months. The client wants to consider using Simpliphi batteries. The new Schneider charge controllers will likely program readily for the battery parameters. I suspect the SW inverter charge settings will likely not be a problem, but I am open to comments. How about the generator auto-start? Will there be a problem finding settings that will accurately trigger a generator run when needed? Any insight on interfacing a set of SW inverters to Simpliphi batteries will be appreciated. Thanks, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 20:03:20 2022 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MD Electric & Solar) Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 17:03:20 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi with SW inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, They do have integration guides on their website, very helpful: https://simpliphipower.com/wp-content/uploads/documentation/phi-series/simpliphi-power-phi-battery-schneider-integration-guide.pdf On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 4:28 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > I have an elderly client with a dual SW system and group 8 AM batteries. > Due to a generator and charge control failure the AGMs failed after just 3 > years. I don’t blame the batteries, they were likely chronically > undercharged for some months. > > > > The client wants to consider using Simpliphi batteries. The new Schneider > charge controllers will likely program readily for the battery parameters. > I suspect the SW inverter charge settings will likely not be a problem, but > I am open to comments. > > > > How about the generator auto-start? Will there be a problem finding > settings that will accurately trigger a generator run when needed? > > > > Any insight on interfacing a set of SW inverters to Simpliphi batteries > will be appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar Inc. Office: 707-412-3181 Cell: 707-684-0064 www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Thu Oct 13 11:48:47 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 08:48:47 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi with SW inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Webinar tomorrow on SW inverters. Subscribe to our news [1] View this email in your browser [2] At Schneider Electric, we support you in your business. Read below our upcoming in-person and online events, as well as a new product we just launched. WEBINAR: SW INVERTER ADVANCED FEATURES Our SW hybrid inverters [3] are packed with features, which provide reliable backup and PV energy management for relatively small residences. Learn how the SW inverter might be a great fit for your next project, whether grid-tied or off-grid. For NABCEP-certified installers, this webinar will be eligible for NABCEP continuing education credits. Date: Thursday, October 13, 2022 Time: 11 a.m. PDT Presenter: Eric Bentsen Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Links: ------ [1] https://sesolar.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=850c7f73789358f810123d0f5&id=c657e8e8f9&e=2eb4a8e1cc [2] https://mailchi.mp/59bd803eddd5/xw-pro-and-gateway-firmware-version-1-7799377?e=2eb4a8e1cc [3] https://sesolar.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=850c7f73789358f810123d0f5&id=47997894c4&e=2eb4a8e1cc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 11:57:48 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 09:57:48 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi with SW inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think we might have a naming issue I’m thinking William is talking about the Trace SW And I think Dave is talking about the Schneider SW Very different critters To Williams question you should be able to program it to meet their specifications. Jay > On Oct 13, 2022, at 9:49 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > > Webinar tomorrow on SW inverters. > > Subscribe to our news > View this email in your browser > > > At Schneider Electric, we support you in your business. Read below our upcoming in-person and online events, as well as a new product we just launched. > > Webinar: SW Inverter Advanced Features > > Our SW hybrid inverters are packed with features, which provide reliable backup and PV energy management for relatively small residences. Learn how the SW inverter might be a great fit for your next project, whether grid-tied or off-grid. For NABCEP-certified installers, this webinar will be eligible for NABCEP continuing education credits. > > Date: Thursday, October 13, 2022 > Time: 11 a.m. PDT > Presenter: Eric Bentsen > > > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Thu Oct 13 12:14:57 2022 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 09:14:57 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi with SW inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: With the Trace SW, you should be able to program it to charge LFP batteries. It'll probably take a bit of tinkering to make it work... Most LFP BMSs work better if you can set the inverter/charger into a 2 Stage charging mode. If I remember correctly, there isn't a setting that forces the inverter/charger into 2 stage charging. So you'll have to experiment with the Absorb timer and Float Voltage to keep the voltage high enough to charge. The voltage based 3 stage chargers will sometime record voltage surge errors with Lithium batteries., so you may also see the surging of voltage from the inverter, especially when the batteries are above 90% SOC. You may want to talk with Simplify and see if they have done any testing with the older Trace Sinewave inverters. They charge a lot like the Older Outback (VFX) inverters, so you use that as a comparison. On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 8:58 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I think we might have a naming issue > > I’m thinking William is talking about the Trace SW > And I think Dave is talking about the Schneider SW > > Very different critters > > To Williams question you should be able to program it > to meet their specifications. > > Jay > > On Oct 13, 2022, at 9:49 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > > Webinar tomorrow on SW inverters. > > Subscribe to our news > > View this email in your browser > > > > At Schneider Electric, we support you in your business. Read below our > upcoming in-person and online events, as well as a new product we just > launched. > *Webinar: SW Inverter Advanced Features* > > Our SW hybrid inverters > > are packed with features, which provide reliable backup and PV energy > management for relatively small residences. Learn how the SW inverter might > be a great fit for your next project, whether grid-tied or off-grid. For > NABCEP-certified installers, this webinar will be eligible for *NABCEP > continuing education credits*. > > Date: Thursday, October 13, 2022 > Time: 11 a.m. PDT > Presenter: Eric Bentsen > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 22:31:26 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 22:31:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Simpliphi with SW inverters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, I have paired a handful of Trace SW inverters with SimpliPhi batteries. I most often run into this with clients that have 24vdc systems and for whatever reason can’t/won’t make the leap to 48vdc. In my opinion, SimpliPhi’s 24 volt offering is the best in its class. With the older versions of the SW, settings can sometimes be erased by looking at the unit the wrong way. I don’t believe that SimpliPhi explicitly calls out the Trace SW as a compatible inverter, but they mostly play nice together. Just write your settings down and make sure the homeowner knows how to program in a pinch. I have seen a generator fail to start, the inverter shut off and when turned back on, charging voltages resets to 28.8vdc and LBCO to 22.0vdc, which isn’t a great change for these specific batteries. -Chris On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 12:15 PM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > With the Trace SW, you should be able to program it to charge LFP > batteries. It'll probably take a bit of tinkering to make it work... Most > LFP BMSs work better if you can set the inverter/charger into a 2 Stage > charging mode. If I remember correctly, there isn't a setting that forces > the inverter/charger into 2 stage charging. > > So you'll have to experiment with the Absorb timer and Float Voltage to > keep the voltage high enough to charge. The voltage based 3 stage chargers > will sometime record voltage surge errors with Lithium batteries., so you > may also see the surging of voltage from the inverter, especially when the > batteries are above 90% SOC. > > You may want to talk with Simplify and see if they have done any testing > with the older Trace Sinewave inverters. They charge a lot like the > Older Outback (VFX) inverters, so you use that as a comparison. > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2022 at 8:58 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> I think we might have a naming issue >> >> I’m thinking William is talking about the Trace SW >> And I think Dave is talking about the Schneider SW >> >> Very different critters >> >> To Williams question you should be able to program it >> to meet their specifications. >> >> Jay >> >> On Oct 13, 2022, at 9:49 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>  >> >> >> Webinar tomorrow on SW inverters. >> >> Subscribe to our news >> >> View this email in your browser >> >> >> >> At Schneider Electric, we support you in your business. Read below our >> upcoming in-person and online events, as well as a new product we just >> launched. >> *Webinar: SW Inverter Advanced Features* >> >> Our SW hybrid inverters >> >> are packed with features, which provide reliable backup and PV energy >> management for relatively small residences. Learn how the SW inverter might >> be a great fit for your next project, whether grid-tied or off-grid. For >> NABCEP-certified installers, this webinar will be eligible for *NABCEP >> continuing education credits*. >> >> Date: Thursday, October 13, 2022 >> Time: 11 a.m. PDT >> Presenter: Eric Bentsen >> >> >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net >> text 209 813 0060* >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Oct 14 11:04:27 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 11:04:27 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupling with backup generator in circuit Message-ID: >From an Outback application note: "Precautions Using a Generator When AC Coupling Most residential generators, and even some commercial grade generators, are not designed to synchronize with another AC source. They may experience catastrophic failure if the other AC source is a “stiffer” source and can overpower the weaker AC coupled generator. To prevent the backfeed from the GTI into the generator, a safety relay can be utilized that disconnects the GTI inputs from the Radian AC output bus bars when the generator is started, either using the MATE3s AGS generator start function, or some other method." I'm trying to wrap my head around this concept of a stiff AC source and its implications for both the GTI and backup generator. Is it merely a matter of which source (backup genny or PV inverter) has more kw? Is there any kw ratio of one to the other where the threat of damage to one or the other source is real? And I imagine real-time loads being powered has something to do with it also. This goes back to an inquiry I posted a few days ago on remote control disconnect means of the GTI. In this case, I've got a 11kw PV inverter coupled on the AC bus with a 20kw Kohler generator and 16kw of OB Radians. The system is grid-tied. I'm beginning to wonder if a disconnect means of the GTI is actually required in all cases as Outback infers. But without solid recommendation to the contrary, I will set it up anyway. *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Tue Oct 18 13:29:47 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 12:29:47 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Head scratcher Message-ID: Hi All, I am hoping that someone on the list can help me think this one through. I have a client that builds tiny portable homes. He is working on one where his client supplied the solar modules, charge controller, batteries, inverter, etc. They bought them through some dot com. The tiny home has a 240 volt mini split that they want to use when plugged into the grid. The inverter that they bought is a 120 volt. The inverter is not grid tied, but does have a 120 volt grid input for battery charging / pass thru. So, my issue is, how can I make this work? I am thinking of using a 50 amp automatic transfer switch like a Surge-Guard-40100 and connecting the solar inverter as primary and grid as backup but am not sure if that unit will disconnect the grid with only one leg energized. Physical space for components is very limited If anyone has some ideas here, I would sure appreciate it. (other than "just walk away" or buy a 240 volt inverter) Thanks, Kris Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at getpimby.com Tue Oct 18 14:05:28 2022 From: matt at getpimby.com (Matt Sherald) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 14:05:28 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Head scratcher In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kris, I think you want the "shore power" to feed into a 240V load center on the tiny home. You might have to add this panel as part of the power inlet equipment. I'd feed the minisplit off this 240V panel and subfeed 120V to the AC IN on the inverter. In turn, the inverter can supply a load center with 120V ONLY circuits. -Matt On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I am hoping that someone on the list can help me think this one through. > > I have a client that builds tiny portable homes. He is working on one > where his client supplied the solar modules, charge controller, batteries, > inverter, etc. They bought them through some dot com. The tiny home has a > 240 volt mini split that they want to use when plugged into the grid. The > inverter that they bought is a 120 volt. The inverter is not grid tied, > but does have a 120 volt grid input for battery charging / pass thru. > > So, my issue is, how can I make this work? I am thinking of using a 50 > amp automatic transfer switch like a Surge-Guard-40100 and connecting the > solar inverter as primary and grid as backup but am not sure if that unit > will disconnect the grid with only one leg energized. Physical space for > components is very limited > > If anyone has some ideas here, I would sure appreciate it. > (other than "just walk away" or buy a 240 volt inverter) > > Thanks, > Kris > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Matt Sherald PIMBY Energy, LLC NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® 304-704-5943 www.getpimby.blogspot.com www.getpimby.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Tue Oct 18 14:13:20 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 13:13:20 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Head scratcher In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That makes sense, Matt. Thanks. I was missing the easier solution. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 1:05 PM Matt Sherald via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Kris, > > I think you want the "shore power" to feed into a 240V load center on the > tiny home. You might have to add this panel as part of the power inlet > equipment. I'd feed the minisplit off this 240V panel and subfeed 120V to > the AC IN on the inverter. In turn, the inverter can supply a load center > with 120V ONLY circuits. > > -Matt > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I am hoping that someone on the list can help me think this one through. >> >> I have a client that builds tiny portable homes. He is working on one >> where his client supplied the solar modules, charge controller, batteries, >> inverter, etc. They bought them through some dot com. The tiny home has a >> 240 volt mini split that they want to use when plugged into the grid. The >> inverter that they bought is a 120 volt. The inverter is not grid tied, >> but does have a 120 volt grid input for battery charging / pass thru. >> >> So, my issue is, how can I make this work? I am thinking of using a 50 >> amp automatic transfer switch like a Surge-Guard-40100 and connecting the >> solar inverter as primary and grid as backup but am not sure if that unit >> will disconnect the grid with only one leg energized. Physical space for >> components is very limited >> >> If anyone has some ideas here, I would sure appreciate it. >> (other than "just walk away" or buy a 240 volt inverter) >> >> Thanks, >> Kris >> >> >> Shine On! >> >> Kris Schmid >> Legacy Solar, LLC >> 137 West 1st Avenue >> Luck, WI 54853 >> www.legacysolar.com >> 715-653-4295 >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician >> BSEE >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > Matt Sherald > PIMBY Energy, LLC > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® > 304-704-5943 > > www.getpimby.blogspot.com > www.getpimby.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Tue Oct 18 14:14:42 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 13:14:42 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Head scratcher In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <474D51E4-70CE-4A88-9B68-623FD67243A8@mavericksolar.com> I would install a main panel (outdoor surface mount?). The main panel is fed by an RV cord, 240 V 50 amp. The main panel has a double pole 20 amp breaker for the air conditioner. The main panel also has a 120V 30 amp breaker for the inverter loop. When the tiny house is plugged into the grid, the mini split and the inverter is fed grid power and the rest of the loads are on the grid via the inverter pass thru. And when the tiny houses is disconnected from the grid, the mini split does not operate and the inverter supplies loads. You can install a switch to take the inverter off grid when the main is connected to grid to utilize available solar production. Assumption: only power mini split on the grid. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Oct 18, 2022, at 12:30 PM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hi All, > > I am hoping that someone on the list can help me think this one through. > > I have a client that builds tiny portable homes. He is working on one where his client supplied the solar modules, charge controller, batteries, inverter, etc. They bought them through some dot com. The tiny home has a 240 volt mini split that they want to use when plugged into the grid. The inverter that they bought is a 120 volt. The inverter is not grid tied, but does have a 120 volt grid input for battery charging / pass thru. > > So, my issue is, how can I make this work? I am thinking of using a 50 amp automatic transfer switch like a Surge-Guard-40100 and connecting the solar inverter as primary and grid as backup but am not sure if that unit will disconnect the grid with only one leg energized. Physical space for components is very limited > > If anyone has some ideas here, I would sure appreciate it. > (other than "just walk away" or buy a 240 volt inverter) > > Thanks, > Kris > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pureenergysolar at hotmail.com Tue Oct 18 15:27:13 2022 From: pureenergysolar at hotmail.com (pureenergysolar at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 19:27:13 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery Message-ID: Hello All, Has anyone successfully coupled Outback with a 48V Lithium battery? We have only ever used Rolls FLA's. While we've "successfully" installed Enphase (tedious), we prefer Outback's VFXR series for a variety of reasons including commissioning and redundancy. Any experience/input on the Outback with Lithium subject would be greatly appreciated. Wayne Irwin President License #CVC56695 State Licensed Solar Contractor Pure Energy Solar International Inc. Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com PureEnergySolar.com SolarChargingStation.com 352 377-6527 Office 352 336-3299 Fax 352 316-1637 Cell The Sun Is Always Shining! The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Tue Oct 18 16:58:43 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 15:58:43 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’ve successfully paired a few different lithium brands with both Radian and FX. Outback has a white paper to get you started. Here’s a PDF that points to the different lithium brands. I’ve successfully paired other non-white listed lithium batteries following the same guideline. https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/productchangenotice/productchangenotice_li-ion.pdf Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Oct 18, 2022, at 2:28 PM, Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Hello All, > > Has anyone successfully coupled Outback with a 48V Lithium battery? > We have only ever used Rolls FLA's. > > While we've "successfully" installed Enphase (tedious), we prefer Outback's VFXR series for a variety of reasons including commissioning and redundancy. > > Any experience/input on the Outback with Lithium subject would be greatly appreciated. > > > Wayne Irwin > President > License #CVC56695 > State Licensed Solar Contractor > Pure Energy Solar International Inc. > Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com > PureEnergySolar.com > SolarChargingStation.com > 352 377-6527 Office > 352 336-3299 Fax > 352 316-1637 Cell > > The Sun Is Always Shining! > > The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Tue Oct 18 17:09:02 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 21:09:02 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Wayne Below is a link to the OBack website. There are several white papers at the link below. https://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/app-notes Thank you for using OutBack/. Take Care From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2022 12:27 PM To: Wrenches Cc: pureenergysolar at hotmail.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hello All, Has anyone successfully coupled Outback with a 48V Lithium battery? We have only ever used Rolls FLA's. While we've "successfully" installed Enphase (tedious), we prefer Outback's VFXR series for a variety of reasons including commissioning and redundancy. Any experience/input on the Outback with Lithium subject would be greatly appreciated. Wayne Irwin President License #CVC56695 State Licensed Solar Contractor Pure Energy Solar International Inc. Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com PureEnergySolar.com SolarChargingStation.com 352 377-6527 Office 352 336-3299 Fax 352 316-1637 Cell The Sun Is Always Shining! The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjmorningstar at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 18:11:26 2022 From: mjmorningstar at gmail.com (Michael Morningstar) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 15:11:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, many Radian systems with Discover AES and Helios using the Lynk II gateway. Lynk II takes care of AGS and activating heat pads. On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 12:27 PM Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello All, > > Has anyone successfully coupled Outback with a 48V Lithium battery? > We have only ever used Rolls FLA's. > > While we've "successfully" installed Enphase (tedious), we prefer > Outback's VFXR series for a variety of reasons including commissioning and > redundancy. > > Any experience/input on the Outback with Lithium subject would be greatly > appreciated. > > > Wayne Irwin > President > License #CVC56695 > State Licensed Solar Contractor > Pure Energy Solar International Inc. > Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com > PureEnergySolar.com > SolarChargingStation.com > 352 377-6527 Office > 352 336-3299 Fax > 352 316-1637 Cell > > The Sun Is Always Shining! > > The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are > not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use > or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail > and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vince at solarenergydesign.com Tue Oct 18 19:08:36 2022 From: vince at solarenergydesign.com (Vince McClellan) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 16:08:36 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Head scratcher In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kris I've successfully used a double pole double throw relay to handle this issue with a couple of solar power trailers that I've built over the years. You will need to bridge the inverter side of the transfer switch so that the 120V single-phase inverter powers both the L-1 and L-2 buses of your tiny home's electrical panel. Also if you use a relay or contactor make sure that it is rated for the amperage that you need at *continuous use*, or make sure that it is rated for way more amperage than you need. There are a whole series of electrical contactors and relays that will say they are rated at a much larger amperage than they can continuously handle. Your transfer switch idea may even work better if you have the physical space for it. Vince McClellan Energy Design NABCEP PV Installation Professional p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:30 AM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I am hoping that someone on the list can help me think this one through. > > I have a client that builds tiny portable homes. He is working on one > where his client supplied the solar modules, charge controller, batteries, > inverter, etc. They bought them through some dot com. The tiny home has a > 240 volt mini split that they want to use when plugged into the grid. The > inverter that they bought is a 120 volt. The inverter is not grid tied, > but does have a 120 volt grid input for battery charging / pass thru. > > So, my issue is, how can I make this work? I am thinking of using a 50 > amp automatic transfer switch like a Surge-Guard-40100 and connecting the > solar inverter as primary and grid as backup but am not sure if that unit > will disconnect the grid with only one leg energized. Physical space for > components is very limited > > If anyone has some ideas here, I would sure appreciate it. > (other than "just walk away" or buy a 240 volt inverter) > > Thanks, > Kris > > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rebekah.hren at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 19:22:42 2022 From: rebekah.hren at gmail.com (Rebekah Hren) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 17:22:42 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Head scratcher In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Also, it's unlikely in a tiny home, but double-check there are no multiwire branch circuits. Neutral could be overloaded once L1 and L2 are the same. There is a required label that states this in Article 710.15(C). On Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 5:09 PM Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Kris > I've successfully used a double pole double throw relay to handle this > issue with a couple of solar power trailers that I've built over the years. > You will need to bridge the inverter side of the transfer switch so that > the 120V single-phase inverter powers both the L-1 and L-2 buses of your > tiny home's electrical panel. Also if you use a relay or contactor make > sure that it is rated for the amperage that you need at *continuous use*, > or make sure that it is rated for way more amperage than you need. There > are a whole series of electrical contactors and relays that will say they > are rated at a much larger amperage than they can continuously handle. > > Your transfer switch idea may even work better if you have the physical > space for it. > > > > Vince McClellan > > Energy Design > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > > p. (541) 485-8122 f. (541) 338-8202 > > If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please > delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or attachment of > this email is strictly prohibited. > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 10:30 AM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I am hoping that someone on the list can help me think this one through. >> >> I have a client that builds tiny portable homes. He is working on one >> where his client supplied the solar modules, charge controller, batteries, >> inverter, etc. They bought them through some dot com. The tiny home has a >> 240 volt mini split that they want to use when plugged into the grid. The >> inverter that they bought is a 120 volt. The inverter is not grid tied, >> but does have a 120 volt grid input for battery charging / pass thru. >> >> So, my issue is, how can I make this work? I am thinking of using a 50 >> amp automatic transfer switch like a Surge-Guard-40100 and connecting the >> solar inverter as primary and grid as backup but am not sure if that unit >> will disconnect the grid with only one leg energized. Physical space for >> components is very limited >> >> If anyone has some ideas here, I would sure appreciate it. >> (other than "just walk away" or buy a 240 volt inverter) >> >> Thanks, >> Kris >> >> >> Shine On! >> >> Kris Schmid >> Legacy Solar, LLC >> 137 West 1st Avenue >> Luck, WI 54853 >> www.legacysolar.com >> 715-653-4295 >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician >> BSEE >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Tue Oct 18 19:46:22 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 16:46:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f207b3614b68fdd508b17ef52076ef0@sti.net> Lones, I did not see any batteries that were closed loop between outback and the battery BMS on your link. Did I missed something? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-10-18 2:09 pm, Tuss, Lones via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Wayne > > Below is a link to the OBack website. > > There are several white papers at the link below. > > https://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/app-notes > > Thank you for using OutBack/. > > Take Care > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2022 12:27 PM > To: Wrenches > Cc: pureenergysolar at hotmail.com > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not > click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and > know the content is safe. > > Hello All, > > Has anyone successfully coupled Outback with a 48V Lithium battery? > > We have only ever used Rolls FLA's. > > While we've "successfully" installed Enphase (tedious), we prefer > Outback's VFXR series for a variety of reasons including commissioning > and redundancy. > > Any experience/input on the Outback with Lithium subject would be > greatly appreciated. > > Wayne Irwin > President > License #CVC56695 > State Licensed Solar Contractor > Pure Energy Solar International Inc. > Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com > PureEnergySolar.com [1] > SolarChargingStation.com [2] > 352 377-6527 Office > 352 336-3299 Fax > 352 316-1637 Cell > > The Sun Is Always Shining! > > The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you > are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, > any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by > reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank > you. > > This email and any attachments may contain confidential information > that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this > email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your > system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those > of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or > its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct > transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally > binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully > signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any > attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss > or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient > and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future > then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before > printing. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501cfaeb-31313abf-454455535732-32f1a8fa7b4c7710&q=1&e=7febb660-9d3e-4dd1-8578-1591e758a25d&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpureenergysolar.com%2F [2] https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=31323334-501cfaeb-31313abf-454455535732-cdfbec8feef8fa5f&q=1&e=7febb660-9d3e-4dd1-8578-1591e758a25d&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsolarchargingstation.com%2F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frenergy at psln.com Tue Oct 18 22:15:37 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 19:15:37 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <339f7ad8-65c0-539c-4446-7e78a6a69741@psln.com> Hi Wayne,             We've done about a dozen Outback systems with SimpliPhi  batteries.  SimpliPhi has integration guides with well thought out  and complete settings to program OB Inverters and CC's the play properly with SimpliPhi batteries (24 and 48 volt). Straight-forward stuff. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 10/18/2022 12:27 PM, Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hello All, > > Has anyone successfully coupled Outback with a 48V Lithium battery? > We have only ever used Rolls FLA's. > > While we've "successfully" installed Enphase (tedious), we prefer > Outback's VFXR series for a variety of reasons including commissioning > and redundancy. > > Any experience/input on the Outback with Lithium subject would be > greatly appreciated. > > > Wayne Irwin > President > License #CVC56695 > State Licensed Solar Contractor > Pure Energy SolarInternational Inc. > Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com > PureEnergySolar.com > SolarChargingStation.com > 352 377-6527 Office > 352 336-3299 Fax > 352 316-1637 Cell > > The Sun Is Always Shining! > > The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you > are not the intended recipient and have received this message in > error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me > immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer > system. Thank you. > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: FRS_working_logo%2C%2050%25.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 8424 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Wed Oct 19 14:30:01 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2022 18:30:01 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery In-Reply-To: <2f207b3614b68fdd508b17ef52076ef0@sti.net> References: <2f207b3614b68fdd508b17ef52076ef0@sti.net> Message-ID: Hi Dave No direct communication as of yet. Sorry From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2022 4:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Lones, I did not see any batteries that were closed loop between outback and the battery BMS on your link. Did I missed something? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-10-18 2:09 pm, Tuss, Lones via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi Wayne Below is a link to the OBack website. There are several white papers at the link below. https://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/app-notes Thank you for using OutBack/. Take Care From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2022 12:27 PM To: Wrenches > Cc: pureenergysolar at hotmail.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with a 48V Lithium battery CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hello All, Has anyone successfully coupled Outback with a 48V Lithium battery? We have only ever used Rolls FLA's. While we've "successfully" installed Enphase (tedious), we prefer Outback's VFXR series for a variety of reasons including commissioning and redundancy. Any experience/input on the Outback with Lithium subject would be greatly appreciated. Wayne Irwin President License #CVC56695 State Licensed Solar Contractor Pure Energy Solar International Inc. Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com PureEnergySolar.com SolarChargingStation.com 352 377-6527 Office 352 336-3299 Fax 352 316-1637 Cell The Sun Is Always Shining! The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you. This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From will at solarenergy.org Thu Oct 20 09:28:22 2022 From: will at solarenergy.org (Will White) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 09:28:22 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Megger Recommendations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sam, I'll try and answer your question as best I can. AC or DC shouldn't matter when conducting insulation resistance testing (IRT) because the conductors shouldn't be connected to an AC or DC power source. You definitely can't conduct insulation resistance testing when the conductor is connected to any type of power electronics (inverter, MLPE, or RSD) because the high voltage can damage the electronics. The best practice is to run the IRT after the conductor has been run but before the ends have been terminated. I understand you can insulation resistance test a string of modules with the module manufacturer's approval. I'm partial to Fluke tools and have a 1503 IRT that's worked well for me. They have a site specifically dedicated to solar tools , and it looks like they recommend the 1587 FC. They're also coming out with a multi-function tool that will do IV Curve testing, IRT, and a few other measurements. It's not out yet, but it should be shortly. Thanks, Will On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 11:01 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > In order to step up our commissioning and testing game and to take > proactive steps to spot isolation faults and test insulation resistance > prior to our systems getting PTO it is time to invest in a Megger. I am > looking for your recommendations for being able to test both AC (single and > three phase) and DC (600 to 1000 Vdc) conductors in a wide range of sizes > typical to both residential and commercial systems. Ideally the equipment > has the option to test to either bare copper or use MC4 leads. > > Am I foolish to look for a single unit that tests both AC and DC or should > I focus on two pieces of equipment? What is your experience with > insulation resistance testing through RSDs, MLPEs, and modules? Are there > brands that specifically state this is a no-go? Are there testers that can > assist in providing a percentage from + or - to help point out the trouble > spot or am I only going to find string-level detail? > > Any recommendations > > Sam Haraldson > Installation & Service Manager > > > m. (406) 249-6841 | o. (406) 551-6135 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Thu Oct 20 12:43:38 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 09:43:38 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Lithium batteries with legacy inverters. Message-ID: <0ef2b11b307d68e2404b4e9330eb024a@mail.gmail.com> Friends: This is a follow up on the question I asked about anyone having actual experience integrating Simpliphi batteries with a Trace SW inverter system. I read the battery and integration manuals carefully and spoke with Simpliphi tech support. The systems are absolutely compatible but only if the inverter and charge controllers are programmed correctly. Therein is the problem: If the SW inverters lose DC power, the programming is erased and the inverters reset to factory defaults. These default settings are not acceptable for safe operation of the Simpliphi batteries. If the client is capable of determining when the settings have been reset and can reprogram the inverters when needed, then maybe the design is acceptable. In the case I am working on, the client does not have these capabilities. It was decided to replace the dead batteries with the same AGM style batteries currently in use, not the Simpliphi. Thanks for your input. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Thu Oct 20 21:33:23 2022 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 18:33:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Lithium batteries with legacy inverters. In-Reply-To: <0ef2b11b307d68e2404b4e9330eb024a@mail.gmail.com> References: <0ef2b11b307d68e2404b4e9330eb024a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: William, I think Right Hand Engineering still makes the device that will keep the SW memory alive. Batteries need to be changed every few years. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 10/20/2022 9:43 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Friends: > > This is a follow up on the question I asked about anyone having actual > experience integrating Simpliphi batteries with a Trace SW inverter > system. > > I read the battery and integration manuals carefully and spoke with > Simpliphi tech support.  The systems are absolutely compatible but > only if the inverter and charge controllers are programmed correctly. > > Therein is the problem:  If the SW inverters lose DC power, the > programming is erased and the inverters reset to factory defaults.  > These default settings are not acceptable for safe operation of the > Simpliphi batteries. > > If the client is capable of determining when the settings have been > reset and can reprogram the inverters when needed, then maybe the > design is acceptable.  In the case I am working on, the client does > not have these capabilities.  It was decided to replace the dead > batteries with the same AGM style batteries currently in use, not the > Simpliphi. > > Thanks for your input. > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 00:14:47 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 21:14:47 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Lithium batteries with legacy inverters. In-Reply-To: <0ef2b11b307d68e2404b4e9330eb024a@mail.gmail.com> References: <0ef2b11b307d68e2404b4e9330eb024a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Wrenches, William I have installed quite a few memory saver kits in the old SW Inverters, ask around if there are any kits still around. This is a viable solution to the Li batteries. Here is something else, the BMS's should protect the batteries anyway, in part of my testing we did this using cheap chargers, overdriving the CC's good BMS's disconnected to protect the cells. Bringing back fun memories of mayhem and destruction, On Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 9:51 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Friends: > > > > This is a follow up on the question I asked about anyone having actual > experience integrating Simpliphi batteries with a Trace SW inverter > system. > > > > I read the battery and integration manuals carefully and spoke with > Simpliphi tech support. The systems are absolutely compatible but only if > the inverter and charge controllers are programmed correctly. > > > > Therein is the problem: If the SW inverters lose DC power, the > programming is erased and the inverters reset to factory defaults. These > default settings are not acceptable for safe operation of the Simpliphi > batteries. > > > > If the client is capable of determining when the settings have been reset > and can reprogram the inverters when needed, then maybe the design is > acceptable. In the case I am working on, the client does not have these > capabilities. It was decided to replace the dead batteries with the same > AGM style batteries currently in use, not the Simpliphi. > > > > Thanks for your input. > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 14:13:26 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 14:13:26 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? Message-ID: Hi folks, I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss something here? Thanks, Howie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at solarenergy.org Fri Oct 21 14:16:40 2022 From: brian at solarenergy.org (Brian Mehalic) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:16:40 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would hope that the UL certification documentation for the products should suffice. Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member (520) 204-6639 Solar Energy International http://www.solarenergy.org SEI Professional Services http://www.seisolarpros.com On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 12:13 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi folks, > I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. > We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. > The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is > "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across > this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such > documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss > something here? > Thanks, > Howie > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Fri Oct 21 14:30:36 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 13:30:36 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Search the archives, Howie. I posted the same question this year and got a good response. The documents should be available from the manufacturer. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi folks, > I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. > We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. > The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is > "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across > this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such > documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss > something here? > Thanks, > Howie > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 14:44:59 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 11:44:59 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On the system size of batteries We have had several issues with resi and 80kWhr limitations, I dont know if this is an issue for you or not just want to through it out there. Jerry On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11:14 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi folks, > I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. > We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. > The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is > "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across > this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such > documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss > something here? > Thanks, > Howie > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 17:23:46 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 17:23:46 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is actually a corporate owned residence - a nice little tax write-off... Jerry, are you saying that from personal/professional experience there is a limitation to the size of the battery bank that a residence can take a credit on? I've never seen reference to anything like that before. Could you possibly elaborate? Thanks, Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:46 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > On the system size of batteries We have had several issues with resi and > 80kWhr limitations, I dont know if this is an issue for you or not just > want to through it out there. > Jerry > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11:14 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. >> We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. >> The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is >> "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across >> this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such >> documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss >> something here? >> Thanks, >> Howie >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 18:29:31 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 18:29:31 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kris, I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but not the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark and the sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter. Fortress didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer their phone. Do you still have the email response from George? Thanks, Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Search the archives, Howie. I posted the same question this year and got > a good response. The documents should be available from the manufacturer. > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. >> We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. >> The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is >> "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across >> this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such >> documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss >> something here? >> Thanks, >> Howie >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Fri Oct 21 18:36:47 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 22:36:47 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howie, I think he is referring to the tax language https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 6:29:31 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Howie Michaelson Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? Kris, I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but not the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark and the sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter. Fortress didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer their phone. Do you still have the email response from George? Thanks, Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ [https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1MQF8aTcFNnBR59ia5JAm1DsPHCxzNkPx&export=download] Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > wrote: Search the archives, Howie. I posted the same question this year and got a good response. The documents should be available from the manufacturer. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi folks, I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss something here? Thanks, Howie _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Tue Oct 25 12:10:12 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 10:10:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] partial data loss Mate 3s Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, I am trying to figure out a tricky problem. I have a customer with a Mate 3s, most current firmware 1.4.7 paired with a radian and a couple of FM60s and some Lithium batteries. We have experienced partial data loss, particularly of the Mate 3s generator start parameters. These parameters seem to go back to defaults and it defaults to an AGS disabled state. At first I thought it was due to electrical storms, because we've had quite a bit of lightning lately, but now I'm not sure. The Cat6 run is about 80' or something like that, so it could be some induction. Anyone seen anything like this? Same parameters were lost from first data loss to following data loss. Kind of strange. I haven't visited the site so I may not b getting the full picture. Thanks -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lones.tuss at enersys.com Tue Oct 25 13:46:12 2022 From: lones.tuss at enersys.com (Tuss, Lones) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 17:46:12 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] partial data loss Mate 3s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Mac Thanks for taking my phone call and providing the optics site name. In looking at the site there does seem to be strange things occurring. I am noticing missing fields on the optics site the Multiphase heading for the Mate3S on the Device Map is missing. Also, as I see the AGS information does seem to vary. I have not seen this behavior before. I would ask that you have the customer depower the Mate then repower it back up. Please let me know when the customer does this. If it keeps happening, I can only assume it was somehow damaged by the lightening. I am curious if the AGS setting as displayed on the Mate3S itself are changing. If they are not perhaps the Optics processor on the Mate3S is suspect. But I will continue to monitor. I will say once programmed I have never seen the AGS setting change in this manner. Interesting. I hope this helps. Thank you for using Optics it sure does help when situations arise. Take Care Sir From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2022 9:10 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Mac Lewis Subject: [RE-wrenches] partial data loss Mate 3s CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Company. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hello Wrenches, I am trying to figure out a tricky problem. I have a customer with a Mate 3s, most current firmware 1.4.7 paired with a radian and a couple of FM60s and some Lithium batteries. We have experienced partial data loss, particularly of the Mate 3s generator start parameters. These parameters seem to go back to defaults and it defaults to an AGS disabled state. At first I thought it was due to electrical storms, because we've had quite a bit of lightning lately, but now I'm not sure. The Cat6 run is about 80' or something like that, so it could be some induction. Anyone seen anything like this? Same parameters were lost from first data loss to following data loss. Kind of strange. I haven't visited the site so I may not b getting the full picture. Thanks -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates This email and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended only for the recipient(s). If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company or its affiliates. This email does not constitute an agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means and does not create any legally binding contract or enforceable obligation in the absence of a fully signed written contract. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for viruses. The company accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar email(s) from us in the future then please notify the sender. Please consider the environment before printing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Tue Oct 25 14:07:10 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 11:07:10 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] partial data loss Mate 3s In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mac: I’ve seen a Mate 3S reprogram stacking on its own. After firmware update it stopped happening. Make sure you set unique password or tech support will blame your customer. Good luck. William On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 9:12 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > I am trying to figure out a tricky problem. I have a customer with a Mate > 3s, most current firmware 1.4.7 paired with a radian and a couple of FM60s > and some Lithium batteries. We have experienced partial data loss, > particularly of the Mate 3s generator start parameters. These parameters > seem to go back to defaults and it defaults to an AGS disabled state. > > At first I thought it was due to electrical storms, because we've had > quite a bit of lightning lately, but now I'm not sure. The Cat6 run is > about 80' or something like that, so it could be some induction. > > Anyone seen anything like this? Same parameters were lost from first data > loss to following data loss. Kind of strange. I haven't visited the site > so I may not b getting the full picture. > > Thanks > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Wed Oct 26 12:44:14 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 09:44:14 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need two wire submersible cable Message-ID: Friends: I am looking for cable appropriate to connect a low water sensor. It is two wire, low current. 18 to 14 gauge would work. Does anyone know where I can source such an item? I need only 150’. Thanks in advance for your help. William -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Oct 26 12:45:16 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 10:45:16 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] utility scale BESS Message-ID: <43621513-4969-4D4C-882D-33FC04CDF390@gmail.com> HI All, I”m wondering if anyone has any direct information or can steer me towards actual information on 40’ BESS container systems. specifically the HVAC systems, number, size and sound from there. Thanks in advance. Jay From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Wed Oct 26 15:49:45 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 15:49:45 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need two wire submersible cable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6630a448-e5a5-eb77-5818-ed93b2a3d5b0@entech-engineering.com> Would SJO cord work? On 10/26/2022 12:44 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > Friends: > > I am looking for cable appropriate to connect a low water sensor. It > is two wire, low current. 18 to 14 gauge would work. > > Does anyone know where I can source such an item? I need only 150’. > > Thanks in advance for your help. > > William > -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Wed Oct 26 15:53:55 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 15:53:55 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6f4d47b2-7c34-2819-9fda-767349a4fd00@entech-engineering.com> I agree with Lloyd. It is qualified if listed I would have to believe. Chris On 10/21/2022 6:36 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote: > Howie, > I think he is referring to the tax language > https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers > Best regards, > Lloyd > Lloyd Hoffstatter > Sunstruck Consulting > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on > behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > > *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2022 6:29:31 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Howie Michaelson > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? > Kris, > I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but > not the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark > and the sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter.  > Fortress didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer > their phone. > Do you still have the email response from George? > Thanks, > Howie > *Howie Michaelson > **Sun Catcher* > *****/NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > /** > **Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004* > > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Search the archives, Howie.  I posted the same question this year > and got a good response.  The documents should be available from > the manufacturer. > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi folks, > I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery > upgrade. We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 > Fortress 18.5kwh units. The client is wanting manufacturer > certification that the equipment is "qualified solar electric > property". I don't know that I've ever run across this type of > request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such > documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? > Did I miss something here? > Thanks, > Howie > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Wed Oct 26 20:04:15 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 20:04:15 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian / Flexmax issue Message-ID: Hello All, Suzanne Csejtey of Design Energy contacted me with an Outback Radian / Flexmax 80 system problem. I don't know what is going on with this system. Below is her description of the problem. Any help would be appreciated. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- System installed 2014. 6.6kW PV, Outback Radian 8048 inverter, (2) x Midnite Classic 200 charge controllers, 600Ah Battery bank (12 x 12V 200Ah Outback Energycell ) for backup of 100A aux panel It worked great, but the customer was always disappointed that she couldn’t show her system online on one screen, because the Midnite charge controllers didn’t talk to the Outback Mate 3. In 2017 the charge controllers were changed to (2) x Outback Flexmax 80’s, and problems started a couple years after that. The system would shut down at least once a month, start up the next day, and the electrician couldn’t find the problem but suspected grid instability. Outback tech support couldn’t help until the system was on OpticsRE, late 2021. Tech support resolved the shutdown issue this year with 2 nd firmware upgrade and a few settings adjusted on Mate3. Radian GS8048 updated 2021, verified 8/2022 from tech support but I am not finding the firmware number. August 2022 tech support walked through our settings and verified all ok with batteries, CCs. Adjusted Mate3 to establish OpticsRE connection, verified not selling from battery/backup only. Worked very well until this September when a lightning storm apparently took out the internet modem and inverter comms with it. Solar and battery still working. Outback told us to replace the Mate3 and Hub, and then the FlexNet DC monitor. Latest firmware update attempted on new Mate3s when received, 001.004.007 but it was already installed and ready to go. Instead of setting everything up again from scratch after replacing Mate3 with Mate3S we decided to see if the charge controllers would repopulate the old information, as recommended in the Outback forum. Then tried to get help to verify settings from Outback support. Support had been very helpful in the past but this time we weren’t so lucky and the person just let us know that wasn’t their job and sent a link to the manual. But the batteries appeared to be at 100%, set not to sell, backup only, max PV self-consumption. The plan was to find more help to verify settings and keep an eye on the system. Seemed to be working very well until it went crazy last week, when the Mate showed alarm, batteries discharged down to 6%, then up to 100%, then everything shut down completely. Programming may be a big part of the issue. Also hearing that the age of the AGM batteries may have been a factor, 8 years. That sometimes dying batteries cause odd behavior? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks in advance. Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional -- From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Oct 26 21:08:29 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 20:08:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian / Flexmax issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1691181C-70BC-4140-A9F6-40D01ECA9950@mavericksolar.com> Sounds like a good system and has been through some growing pains. 8 years of software upgrades, internet connectivity and a lightning strike. I would say yes, an 8 year old battery bank might need to be replaced. I’d start with a load test looking for a particular battery issue. Also, I’d look at the OpticsRE to see what all the settings are that fit the philosophy of use. Now is a good time to switch to Lithium, if the environmental conditions are right and the customer is ready. Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maverick at mavericksolar.com 512-460-9825 > On Oct 26, 2022, at 7:05 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hello All, > > Suzanne Csejtey of Design Energy contacted me with an Outback Radian / Flexmax 80 system problem. I don't know what is going on with this system. Below is her description of the problem. Any help would be appreciated. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > System installed 2014. > > 6.6kW PV, Outback Radian 8048 inverter, (2) x Midnite Classic 200 charge controllers, 600Ah > Battery bank (12 x 12V 200Ah Outback Energycell ) for backup of 100A aux panel > > It worked great, but the customer was always disappointed that she couldn’t show her system > online on one screen, because the Midnite charge controllers didn’t talk to the Outback Mate 3. > In 2017 the charge controllers were changed to (2) x Outback Flexmax 80’s, and problems > started a couple years after that. The system would shut down at least once a month, start up > the next day, and the electrician couldn’t find the problem but suspected grid instability. Outback tech support couldn’t help until the system was on OpticsRE, late 2021. Tech support resolved the shutdown issue this year with 2 nd firmware upgrade and a few settings adjusted on Mate3. > > Radian GS8048 updated 2021, verified 8/2022 from tech support but I am not finding the > firmware number. August 2022 tech support walked through our settings and verified all ok with batteries, CCs. Adjusted Mate3 to establish OpticsRE connection, verified not selling from > battery/backup only. > > Worked very well until this September when a lightning storm apparently took out the internet > modem and inverter comms with it. Solar and battery still working. Outback told us to replace > the Mate3 and Hub, and then the FlexNet DC monitor. Latest firmware update attempted on > new Mate3s when received, 001.004.007 but it was already installed and ready to go. > > Instead of setting everything up again from scratch after replacing Mate3 with Mate3S we > decided to see if the charge controllers would repopulate the old information, as recommended > in the Outback forum. Then tried to get help to verify settings from Outback support. Support > had been very helpful in the past but this time we weren’t so lucky and the person just let us > know that wasn’t their job and sent a link to the manual. But the batteries appeared to be at > 100%, set not to sell, backup only, max PV self-consumption. The plan was to find more help to > verify settings and keep an eye on the system. > > Seemed to be working very well until it went > crazy last week, when the Mate showed alarm, batteries discharged down to 6%, then up to > 100%, then everything shut down completely. > > Programming may be a big part of the issue. Also hearing that the age of the AGM batteries may have been a factor, 8 years. That sometimes dying batteries cause odd behavior? > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks in advance. > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Wed Oct 26 21:14:28 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 20:14:28 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: <6f4d47b2-7c34-2819-9fda-767349a4fd00@entech-engineering.com> References: <6f4d47b2-7c34-2819-9fda-767349a4fd00@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: Yes, but I believe an accountant wants to know how they prove and document that it is "solar electric property". Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Wed, Oct 26, 2022, 2:55 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I agree with Lloyd. It is qualified if listed I would have to believe. > Chris > On 10/21/2022 6:36 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Howie, > I think he is referring to the tax language > https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers > Best regards, > Lloyd > Lloyd Hoffstatter > Sunstruck Consulting > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches > on behalf of Howie Michaelson > via RE-wrenches > > *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2022 6:29:31 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > > *Cc:* Howie Michaelson > > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? > > Kris, > I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but not > the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark and the > sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter. Fortress > didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer their phone. > Do you still have the email response from George? > Thanks, > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson **Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ * > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004* > > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Search the archives, Howie. I posted the same question this year and got > a good response. The documents should be available from the manufacturer. > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi folks, > I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. > We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. > The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is > "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across > this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such > documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss > something here? > Thanks, > Howie > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Wed Oct 26 21:18:04 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 01:18:04 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: <6f4d47b2-7c34-2819-9fda-767349a4fd00@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: For inverters use the NYPSC list or CE for other equipment Best, Lloyd Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 9:14:28 PM To: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com ; RE-wrenches Cc: Kristopher Schmid Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? Yes, but I believe an accountant wants to know how they prove and document that it is "solar electric property". Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Wed, Oct 26, 2022, 2:55 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > wrote: I agree with Lloyd. It is qualified if listed I would have to believe. Chris On 10/21/2022 6:36 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote: Howie, I think he is referring to the tax language https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 6:29:31 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Howie Michaelson Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? Kris, I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but not the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark and the sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter. Fortress didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer their phone. Do you still have the email response from George? Thanks, Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ [https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1MQF8aTcFNnBR59ia5JAm1DsPHCxzNkPx&export=download] Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > wrote: Search the archives, Howie. I posted the same question this year and got a good response. The documents should be available from the manufacturer. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi folks, I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss something here? Thanks, Howie _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 [cid:part1.qB2nMgrr.kfwtpeQ0 at entech-engineering.com] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Wed Oct 26 21:25:53 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 20:25:53 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: <6f4d47b2-7c34-2819-9fda-767349a4fd00@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: New York Public Service Commission and Conformité Européene listing, Lloyd? Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Wed, Oct 26, 2022, 8:18 PM Lloyd Hoffstatter < lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com> wrote: > For inverters use the NYPSC list or CE for other equipment > > Best, > Lloyd > > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 26, 2022 9:14:28 PM > *To:* cwarfel at entech-engineering.com ; > RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Kristopher Schmid > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? > > Yes, but I believe an accountant wants to know how they prove and document > that it is "solar electric property". > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022, 2:55 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I agree with Lloyd. It is qualified if listed I would have to believe. > Chris > On 10/21/2022 6:36 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Howie, > I think he is referring to the tax language > https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers > Best regards, > Lloyd > Lloyd Hoffstatter > Sunstruck Consulting > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches > on behalf of Howie Michaelson > via RE-wrenches > > *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2022 6:29:31 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > > *Cc:* Howie Michaelson > > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? > > Kris, > I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but not > the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark and the > sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter. Fortress > didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer their phone. > Do you still have the email response from George? > Thanks, > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson **Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ * > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004* > > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Search the archives, Howie. I posted the same question this year and got > a good response. The documents should be available from the manufacturer. > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi folks, > I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. > We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. > The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is > "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across > this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such > documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss > something here? > Thanks, > Howie > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Wed Oct 26 21:31:55 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 01:31:55 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? In-Reply-To: References: <6f4d47b2-7c34-2819-9fda-767349a4fd00@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: California Energy Commission energy.ca.gov All the best, Lloyd Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 9:25:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Kristopher Schmid Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? New York Public Service Commission and Conformité Européene listing, Lloyd? Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Wed, Oct 26, 2022, 8:18 PM Lloyd Hoffstatter > wrote: For inverters use the NYPSC list or CE for other equipment Best, Lloyd Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches > on behalf of Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2022 9:14:28 PM To: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com >; RE-wrenches > Cc: Kristopher Schmid > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? Yes, but I believe an accountant wants to know how they prove and document that it is "solar electric property". Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Wed, Oct 26, 2022, 2:55 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > wrote: I agree with Lloyd. It is qualified if listed I would have to believe. Chris On 10/21/2022 6:36 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches wrote: Howie, I think he is referring to the tax language https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter Sunstruck Consulting Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 6:29:31 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Howie Michaelson Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? Kris, I found your query in the archives and Marcos follow-up question, but not the reply, apparently from George McClellan. I just called Sol-Ark and the sales person I talked with knew nothing about such a letter. Fortress didn't have anything on their website and didn;'t answer their phone. Do you still have the email response from George? Thanks, Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ [https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1MQF8aTcFNnBR59ia5JAm1DsPHCxzNkPx&export=download] Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:32 PM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > wrote: Search the archives, Howie. I posted the same question this year and got a good response. The documents should be available from the manufacturer. Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:14 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi folks, I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss something here? Thanks, Howie _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 [X] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lars at cal-solar.com Thu Oct 27 11:21:40 2022 From: lars at cal-solar.com (Lars Ortegren) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:21:40 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues? Message-ID: Seemingly out of the blue we've had a number of installs (all IQ8) that are having Line Noise issues preventing the MIs from communicating from the Envoy. In both of our recent installs they are not in neighborhoods that have a number of systems, and the issue is not finding too many, but finding very few to none . Enphase has suggested purchasing a Q-LCF-064-1P line filter ($500), and I wanted to see if this is something that is "more common" on the IQ8 that we should plan on as part of our pricing. Any wrenches found cheaper alternatives that work? Lars -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonl at mendocinosolar.com Thu Oct 27 11:58:52 2022 From: jasonl at mendocinosolar.com (jasonl at mendocinosolar.com) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:58:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c9c1e3f2076c475cfcfb94b2274c880@mendocinosolar.com> Hi Lars, It is likely that the IQ8 micro's are more subject to line noise then previous models. We've had line noise and comm's issues in the past with IQ 7's as well. A cheap solution that we have had some success with is to put ferrite core snap together chokes around L1 and L2 PV input wiring. You can get these at Radio Shack for about $6-8 a piece. This would be a much cheaper solution then the Enphase filter. You can also try the solid core type, and your installers can just pass the conductors through them as they wire the combiner box. You can also get much less expensive in line filters that are similar to the Enphase filter on Amazon for $20-50 a piece. Good luck and happy solaring. Jason Lord Mendocino Solar Service On 2022-10-27 8:21 am, Lars Ortegren via RE-wrenches wrote: > Seemingly out of the blue we've had a number of installs (all IQ8) > that are having Line Noise issues preventing the MIs from > communicating from the Envoy. In both of our recent installs they are > not in neighborhoods that have a number of systems, and the issue is > not finding too many, but finding very few to none . > > Enphase has suggested purchasing a Q-LCF-064-1P line filter ($500), > and I wanted to see if this is something that is "more common" on the > IQ8 that we should plan on as part of our pricing. Any wrenches found > cheaper alternatives that work? > > Lars > > [1] > > Links: > ------ > [1] https://californiasolarco.com/quote/ > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Thu Oct 27 11:59:49 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:59:49 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Accuracy of Enphase consumption monitoring Message-ID: I received this question from a non-client: *On a daily basis, FPL [Florida Power and Light] (per their app) consistently shows a 20 to 40% (higher) difference in what they delivered and received vs what Enphase app shows as imported and exported. My installer can not explain why. Any ideas?* Incidentally, I have noticed issues with this. The import and export figures don't seem to match up. I'm wondering if it could be time zone issues or just the accuracy or sampling frequency. Even over longer timeframes the data does not line up with utility figures. (Yes, all circuits are being monitored in these cases) Any thoughts? Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Thu Oct 27 12:09:23 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 10:09:23 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues? In-Reply-To: <5c9c1e3f2076c475cfcfb94b2274c880@mendocinosolar.com> References: <5c9c1e3f2076c475cfcfb94b2274c880@mendocinosolar.com> Message-ID: > ...A cheap solution that we have had some success > with is to put ferrite core snap together chokes around L1 and L2 PV Lars, If your company installs SMA Core1 inverters you'll find these ferrite chokes inside every box of them in the bag with the amphenol connectors and other miscellaneous parts. I have a small collection of them for sites where I don't need to use the choke on an ethernet cable inside the inverter. Cheers, Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Thu Oct 27 12:53:09 2022 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 09:53:09 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Accuracy of Enphase consumption monitoring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9fd1d28a-901e-1611-1452-21e2c946afbc@coveoregon.com> Jason, Since the difference is not a consistent percentage, I'd look at the consumption meter settings. Make sure that the solar energy is accounted for correctly: either included or not included with the consumption metering. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 10/27/2022 8:59 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: > I received this question from a non-client: > > /On a daily basis, FPL [Florida Power and Light]  (per their app) > consistently shows a 20 to 40% (higher) difference in what they > delivered and received vs what Enphase app shows as imported and > exported. My installer can not explain why. Any ideas?/ > > > Incidentally, I have noticed issues with this. The import and export > figures don't seem to match up. I'm wondering if it could be time zone > issues or just the accuracy or sampling frequency. Even over longer > timeframes the data does not line up with utility figures. > > (Yes, all circuits are being monitored in these cases) > > Any thoughts? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > * > > > * > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danbob88 at gmail.com Thu Oct 27 13:07:12 2022 From: danbob88 at gmail.com (Dan Fink) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:07:12 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] IQ8 "line noise" issues? In-Reply-To: <5c9c1e3f2076c475cfcfb94b2274c880@mendocinosolar.com> References: <5c9c1e3f2076c475cfcfb94b2274c880@mendocinosolar.com> Message-ID: Ferrite beads, cores and rings are NOT all the same. The RFI frequency ranges they can suppress differ depending on the "mix" of powders used in their manufacture. I carry a variety of them in my truck, some of each type (ring, snap on core) and of Mix 31, 65 and 75. And a big cheap pack from Amazon of unknown mix (even the seller didn't know) which seems to be somewhere around Mix 43. It's also important to identify both the source and the victim of the RFI, as you can select ferrites to suppress either end or both. As in, is there a noisy appliance in the house (something with a VF drive maybe?) that's interfering with the microinverters, or are the microinverters interfering with something in the house? This document from Palomar Engineers goes into detail about the different available ferrite mixes. These are ham radio folk, and they are very helpful with tech support requests in diagnosing and mitigating RFI issues. https://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite-products/ferrite-cores/ferrite-mix-selection Dan Fink Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector NABCEP PV Associate d anbob88 at gmail.com 970-672-4342 On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 10:00 AM Jason Lord via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Lars, > > It is likely that the IQ8 micro's are more subject to line noise then > previous models. We've had line noise and comm's issues in the past > with IQ 7's as well. A cheap solution that we have had some success > with is to put ferrite core snap together chokes around L1 and L2 PV > input wiring. You can get these at Radio Shack for about $6-8 a piece. > This would be a much cheaper solution then the Enphase filter. You can > also try the solid core type, and your installers can just pass the > conductors through them as they wire the combiner box. You can also get > much less expensive in line filters that are similar to the Enphase > filter on Amazon for $20-50 a piece. Good luck and happy solaring. > > Jason Lord > Mendocino Solar Service > > > On 2022-10-27 8:21 am, Lars Ortegren via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Seemingly out of the blue we've had a number of installs (all IQ8) > > that are having Line Noise issues preventing the MIs from > > communicating from the Envoy. In both of our recent installs they are > > not in neighborhoods that have a number of systems, and the issue is > > not finding too many, but finding very few to none . > > > > Enphase has suggested purchasing a Q-LCF-064-1P line filter ($500), > > and I wanted to see if this is something that is "more common" on the > > IQ8 that we should plan on as part of our pricing. Any wrenches found > > cheaper alternatives that work? > > > > Lars > > > > [1] > > > > Links: > > ------ > > [1] https://californiasolarco.com/quote/ > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From louis at woofenden.net Thu Oct 27 15:13:12 2022 From: louis at woofenden.net (Louis Woofenden) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 12:13:12 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Accuracy of Enphase consumption monitoring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jason, I went back and forth  bunch of times with Enphase in late 2020 or early 2021 on this very issue. Maybe Nick can weigh in if my information is out of date, but what I found is that Enphase uses a 15 minute net data register for energy import/export in their Envoys system monitor, rather than properly recording imported and exported energy in separate registers. A strange engineering/software engineering choice! What this means is that for any 15-minute period where there is both imports and exports, only the net import/export is reflected in the consumption monitoring. For example, lets say a PV system is exporting 3,000 W above the base load of the house for the full 15-minute measurement period, but an air conditioner turns on drawing 7,000 W for 5 minutes (net import of 4,000W). Real exported energy is 3,000 W for 10 minutes, or 500 Wh. Real imported energy is 4,000 W for 5 minutes, or 333.3 Wh. But Enphase is just going to show 166.7 Wh exported for that time period, not reflecting the imported energy. So the only utility meter configuration where the Enphase consumption monitoring is actually accurate would be a meter that also uses a 15-minute net register for imports/exports. Here in Arizona, all our utilities use revenue meters with separate two instantaneous accumulating registers for both import and export, so we have seen discrepancies similar to what you're seeing. Back in 2020, I verified all this was the case by using eGauges on a couple of systems to measure import/export on a 1-second basis. If helpful, could dig back into that analysis--let me know off-list. If the customer has access to hourly energy use data from their utility to compare, they'll see that the Enphase consumption data is accurate at night, when there is no exports, or for periods where the system is continually exporting energy for a 15-minute period. We install Enphase pretty much exclusively, but it's still a bit of a thorn in my side that this hasn't been fixed, to my knowledge. Best, Louis Woofenden Engineering Director/Owner Net Zero Solar 945 W Silverlake Road, Tucson, AZ 85713 Arizona ROC #248710, 259756, 259521 Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote on 10/27/22 8:59 AM: > I received this question from a non-client: > > /On a daily basis, FPL [Florida Power and Light]  (per their app) > consistently shows a 20 to 40% (higher) difference in what they > delivered and received vs what Enphase app shows as imported and > exported. My installer can not explain why. Any ideas?/ > > > Incidentally, I have noticed issues with this. The import and export > figures don't seem to match up. I'm wondering if it could be time zone > issues or just the accuracy or sampling frequency. Even over longer > timeframes the data does not line up with utility figures. > > (Yes, all circuits are being monitored in these cases) > > Any thoughts? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > > * > > > * > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Fri Oct 28 07:53:22 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:53:22 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian / Flexmax issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ISOLATE ISOLATE ISOLATE. The first thing I would do id disable the Flex net DC, next isolate each 12 v battery, ck voltages, load test, use any automotive battery tester find 4 decent batteries and try again. Have you replaced all the com cables? Cheap and w/ the possibility of Lightning strike, its a no brainer. I have seen the FNDC cause all sorts of issues due to battery issues. We at one time installed quite a few only to have issues w/ batteries that were undercharged, customers restarting the system w/ batteries that were not fully charged. When rebooted the FNDC is assuming that the batteries ARE FULLY CHARGED and have the rated capacity, which usually NOT the case. Firmwares versions are easily found in the “system info” in the M3s > On Oct 26, 2022, at 8:04 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hello All, > > Suzanne Csejtey of Design Energy contacted me with an Outback Radian / Flexmax 80 system problem. I don't know what is going on with this system. Below is her description of the problem. Any help would be appreciated. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > System installed 2014. > > 6.6kW PV, Outback Radian 8048 inverter, (2) x Midnite Classic 200 charge controllers, 600Ah > Battery bank (12 x 12V 200Ah Outback Energycell ) for backup of 100A aux panel > > It worked great, but the customer was always disappointed that she couldn’t show her system > online on one screen, because the Midnite charge controllers didn’t talk to the Outback Mate 3. > In 2017 the charge controllers were changed to (2) x Outback Flexmax 80’s, and problems > started a couple years after that. The system would shut down at least once a month, start up > the next day, and the electrician couldn’t find the problem but suspected grid instability. Outback tech support couldn’t help until the system was on OpticsRE, late 2021. Tech support resolved the shutdown issue this year with 2 nd firmware upgrade and a few settings adjusted on Mate3. > > Radian GS8048 updated 2021, verified 8/2022 from tech support but I am not finding the > firmware number. August 2022 tech support walked through our settings and verified all ok with batteries, CCs. Adjusted Mate3 to establish OpticsRE connection, verified not selling from > battery/backup only. > > Worked very well until this September when a lightning storm apparently took out the internet > modem and inverter comms with it. Solar and battery still working. Outback told us to replace > the Mate3 and Hub, and then the FlexNet DC monitor. Latest firmware update attempted on > new Mate3s when received, 001.004.007 but it was already installed and ready to go. > > Instead of setting everything up again from scratch after replacing Mate3 with Mate3S we > decided to see if the charge controllers would repopulate the old information, as recommended > in the Outback forum. Then tried to get help to verify settings from Outback support. Support > had been very helpful in the past but this time we weren’t so lucky and the person just let us > know that wasn’t their job and sent a link to the manual. But the batteries appeared to be at > 100%, set not to sell, backup only, max PV self-consumption. The plan was to find more help to > verify settings and keep an eye on the system. > > Seemed to be working very well until it went > crazy last week, when the Mate showed alarm, batteries discharged down to 6%, then up to > 100%, then everything shut down completely. > > Programming may be a big part of the issue. Also hearing that the age of the AGM batteries may have been a factor, 8 years. That sometimes dying batteries cause odd behavior? > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks in advance. > > Drake > > Drake Chamberlin > Athens Electric LLC > Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 > CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > -- > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat Oct 29 13:08:12 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 13:08:12 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] "Qualified solar electric property"? RE: battery storage limitations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Howie - Unrelated to tax code, You had a question on Jerry's response referencing battery storage limitations. NFPA 855 (referenced in the 2021 NFPA 1 Fire safety rules), does put rules / limits on residential storage kwh size and layouts, amongst other things. An 80kwh storage limit is mentioned here. check out this link: https://www.mayfield.energy/blog/fire-codes-and-nfpa-855-for-energy-storage-systems This blog gives a good summary and history of both NFPA and IBC requirements in the newest versions. Note Vermont is still working off NFPA 2015 for state-permitted commercial work, so the restrictions should not apply at this time. That is of course unless a local municipality adopted 2021 on their own, which is how roof access pathway requirements came to be in many VT towns for residences, first required in NFPA 2009 or thereabouts. On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 5:24 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > This is actually a corporate owned residence - a nice little tax > write-off... Jerry, are you saying that from personal/professional > experience there is a limitation to the size of the battery bank that a > residence can take a credit on? I've never seen reference to anything like > that before. Could you possibly elaborate? > Thanks, > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* > > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 2:46 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> On the system size of batteries We have had several issues with resi and >> 80kWhr limitations, I dont know if this is an issue for you or not just >> want to through it out there. >> Jerry >> >> On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11:14 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi folks, >>> I have a client that I'm doing a larger inverter and battery upgrade. >>> We're are putting in 3Sol-Ark 15k inverters and 7 Fortress 18.5kwh units. >>> The client is wanting manufacturer certification that the equipment is >>> "qualified solar electric property". I don't know that I've ever run across >>> this type of request before or that I've seen manufacturers supply such >>> documentation. Is this something that anyone is familiar with? Did I miss >>> something here? >>> Thanks, >>> Howie >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Tue Nov 1 18:24:26 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 22:24:26 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA without WiFi Message-ID: Can anyone recommend the best Wi-Fi repeater to use with the new Sunny boys’ that do not have Wi-Fi capability? Mr. Mahon? Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St. Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. From william at millersolar.com Tue Nov 1 18:41:38 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 15:41:38 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA without WiFi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeremy: If the device you want to connect to does not have Wifi capability then you don’t need an extender, you need a station device. The unit will receive via wifi and convert to a wired Ethernet cable. I recommend the Ubiquiti nano-stations. https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-devices/products/2-4-ghz-loco You have to know a bit about wifi networking to set one up. There are tutorials out there to coach you. Contact me off-line if you want more information on setting one up. William On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 3:25 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Can anyone recommend the best Wi-Fi repeater to use with the new Sunny > boys’ that do not have Wi-Fi capability? > Mr. Mahon? > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St. > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Tue Nov 1 18:59:56 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 18:59:56 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA without WiFi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeremy, My vendor sent me the attached tech note. I tried the long range Vonets device on a recent project with two inverters. They were easy to set up with a laptop. And install is easy, since it is meant to get power from the USB port in the inverter. The initial install went well. Then the system was shut off for a few days until we got inspected and PTO. When it was turned back on, they no longer worked. One would just not even turn on anymore. The issue was the USB port in the inverter. If I swapped the Vonets devices the issue stayed with the inverter, and they both powered on just fine in the other inverter. I called tech support and the tech I talked to said you are not supposed to use the USB port to power anything and was not even aware of this tech note. So I avoided the issue by wiring the two inverters together. But Then the other device was being very flaky. I had previously installed a wireless access point on the outside of the house, so the WiFi signal was good, but maybe not so great behind the array and inside the inverter. I then finally installed a box with an outlet and one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Band-WiFi-Range-Extender/dp/B08DHCC8BN/ This is meant to be a range extender, but it also has a lan port. I ran a cable to both inverters and comms have been great since. I'd be curious to know if anyone else has had luck with the Vonets devices being powered off USB? I may try again on an upcoming project where the wifi will be coming from the back of the array rather than the front. Cheers, Dave On Tue, Nov 1, 2022, 6:42 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jeremy: > > If the device you want to connect to does not have Wifi capability then > you don’t need an extender, you need a station device. The unit will > receive via wifi and convert to a wired Ethernet cable. > > I recommend the Ubiquiti nano-stations. > > https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-devices/products/2-4-ghz-loco > > You have to know a bit about wifi networking to set one up. There are > tutorials out there to coach you. Contact me off-line if you want more > information on setting one up. > > William > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 3:25 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Can anyone recommend the best Wi-Fi repeater to use with the new Sunny >> boys’ that do not have Wi-Fi capability? >> Mr. Mahon? >> >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> Solar Installation / Design >> All Solar, Inc. >> 1453 M St. >> Penrose Colorado 81240 >> >> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SMA - Tech Note - Sunny Boy US-41 - 3rd Party WiFi Options_v1.6 (1).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 427541 bytes Desc: not available URL: From august at luminalt.com Tue Nov 1 19:01:08 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 16:01:08 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA without WiFi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Many WiFi range extenders on the market also include an ethernet port. This will allow you to hardwire your Sunnyboy to the extender via ethernet. First, you setup the extender to join the existing WiFi network. Then you just plug in your ethernet cable and should be good to go. Here is an example: https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Wi-Fi-Range-Extender-EX2700/dp/B00L0YLRUW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=IH1QL1JUAY99&keywords=wifi%2Bextender&qid=1667343447&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI2LjM3IiwicXNhIjoiNi4zOSIsInFzcCI6IjYuMDUifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=wifi%2Bextender%2Caps%2C358&sr=8-4&th=1 Best, August On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 3:42 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Jeremy: > > If the device you want to connect to does not have Wifi capability then > you don’t need an extender, you need a station device. The unit will > receive via wifi and convert to a wired Ethernet cable. > > I recommend the Ubiquiti nano-stations. > > https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airmax-devices/products/2-4-ghz-loco > > You have to know a bit about wifi networking to set one up. There are > tutorials out there to coach you. Contact me off-line if you want more > information on setting one up. > > William > > > On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 3:25 PM Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Can anyone recommend the best Wi-Fi repeater to use with the new Sunny >> boys’ that do not have Wi-Fi capability? >> Mr. Mahon? >> >> >> Jeremy Rodriguez >> Solar Installation / Design >> All Solar, Inc. >> 1453 M St. >> Penrose Colorado 81240 >> >> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Thu Nov 3 13:55:31 2022 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2022 10:55:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin: spam / illicit links coming to list members Message-ID: <1667498137514.411efe8231a4171d@re-wrenches.org> Hello Wrenches. If you have any questions about this, please contact me off list. Some of you have been emailed spam / links that look like they might be coming from the Wrench List. They are intended to deceive you into thinking they are legitimate messages. These emails are NOT coming from the list. I suspect that one of the Wrench members has an email account that has been compromised, and a nefarious person is emailing spam or links to people that the compromised member has in their email system or address book, and that could include many of you. One way to tell that the illicit messages are not coming from the list is that all email from the list comes from the official address: . The examples a couple of you have sent me are coming from, for example, "RE-wrenches " The illicit messages contain a link that, I assume, will put your email account also at risk. Most of you know that you shouldn't click links when you are not certain of the origination of the email. This admin message is intended to reinforce that basic email strategy. I normally consider messages to the list about spam or viruses to be off-topic. But I am making an exception for this admin note because I suspect that several of you are also getting the illicit messages that marginally appear like they are coming from the Wrench list. Again, if you'd like to discuss this further or want to let me know that you also are a recipient of these spam/virus messages, please contact me off list. Thanks for all you do, and I am sorry for any illicit messages you may receive. Just don't click, and the nefarious efforts will be nothing more than a nuisance. From roy at four-winds-energy.com Fri Nov 4 12:03:22 2022 From: roy at four-winds-energy.com (Roy Butler) Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2022 12:03:22 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Manufacturer's rep In-Reply-To: <1667498137514.411efe8231a4171d@re-wrenches.org> References: <1667498137514.411efe8231a4171d@re-wrenches.org> Message-ID: <9dbd586b-730e-0f4f-4565-e8a023ce473e@four-winds-energy.com> Hi Michael, I hope you're well! Steve Bell was the Morningstar mfgr's rep but he retired a few months ago, leaving me the senior (over 65!) tech here. I've been asked to take over Steve's position as the company rep for the List. What do you need from me or Morningstar to make this happen? Take care, Roy Butler Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t. “The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.” Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Nov 7 09:32:45 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:32:45 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wireless relays Message-ID: Recently there was a discussion about remotely controlled contactors to shed PV during generator operation I believe. I have a little bit of a different need for remote relays. I need to remotely disconnect air conditioning 24 volt control circuits using the dry contacts in the Enphase smart controller. In other words, I want to shed air conditioning loads when the system goes off grid and selectively turn them back on using the logic in the smart controller. So what I would need is something that detects a disconnection of the dry contacts and then sends a wireless signal to disconnect the 24 volt control circuit at the remote location in the house. Normally I would just hardwire this, but it is not an option in this case. Does anyone know of an elegant and cost effective way to accomplish this? Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Nov 7 09:44:13 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 09:44:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wireless relays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, I just successfully hooked up a a remote 915mhz RF circuit to accomplish GTI disconnect in a AC coupled system when the backup generator starts. I think this is the discussion you are referring to. I’m on the road right now but will post details including the source of the send/receive units when I get back to a computer. It’s been working for over two weeks now with no problems whatsoever. On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 9:34 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Recently there was a discussion about remotely controlled contactors to > shed PV during generator operation I believe. I have a little bit of a > different need for remote relays. I need to remotely disconnect air > conditioning 24 volt control circuits using the dry contacts in the Enphase > smart controller. In other words, I want to shed air conditioning loads > when the system goes off grid and selectively turn them back on using the > logic in the smart controller. So what I would need is something that > detects a disconnection of the dry contacts and then sends a wireless > signal to disconnect the 24 volt control circuit at the remote location in > the house. > > Normally I would just hardwire this, but it is not an option in this case. > Does anyone know of an elegant and cost effective way to accomplish this? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Tue Nov 8 07:19:13 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2022 07:19:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wireless relays In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jason, https://www.iohvaccontrols.com/category/wireless-solutions.html I used the IO-WRP model, with a range of about 1/4 mi. to remotely disconnect a GTI whenever the backup genny starts. The next model down, without antenna, has a range of about 100 ft. The IO-WRP was better suited to my app. I am going from the basement of the main house where the system / gen ATS is to a barn about 150' away where the array is mounted. These units are actually designed for hvac to be controlled remotely by T-stats or whatever. But basically if any of the 3 send channels have 24vac applied on the base unit, the corresponding receive channel on the satellite unit will output 24vac. So that signal in my case is holding a contactor closed to keep the GTI connected to grid AC unless the generator starts. What's nice about these RF units is that if the 24vac power is lost on either for any reason, connection will be lost and the action at the remote unit will be aborted. pretty failsafe by nature, at least for what I'm doing. I purchased it online from supplyhouse.com - no local distributor stocked them. On Mon, Nov 7, 2022 at 9:34 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Recently there was a discussion about remotely controlled contactors to > shed PV during generator operation I believe. I have a little bit of a > different need for remote relays. I need to remotely disconnect air > conditioning 24 volt control circuits using the dry contacts in the Enphase > smart controller. In other words, I want to shed air conditioning loads > when the system goes off grid and selectively turn them back on using the > logic in the smart controller. So what I would need is something that > detects a disconnection of the dry contacts and then sends a wireless > signal to disconnect the 24 volt control circuit at the remote location in > the house. > > Normally I would just hardwire this, but it is not an option in this case. > Does anyone know of an elegant and cost effective way to accomplish this? > > Jason Szumlanski > Florida Solar Design Group > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Wed Nov 9 10:30:50 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 10:30:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Locus to Vision meter swap Message-ID: Hi All, I have a service request to replace a Locus LGate120 with a Vision CatM1 meter. I have never used the Vision meters, and have not used an LGate120 in many years. Does anyone know if this will be a 1 to 1 swap? As in, is the meter specific to the meter enclosure, or can I just pull out the Locus meter and put in the Vision meter? Thanks! -Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Thu Nov 10 08:21:10 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 08:21:10 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian / Flexmax issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5787d93f3f398c9ec1d2c9f8b5712cb2@redwoodalliance.org> Suzanne finally did get the system working. The problem was in the programming of the Mate. This was discovered by Outback Tech support with Optics. So far, no word on the exact settings involved. The batteries were not damaged. Thank you for your help. Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 CO Master Electrician's License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-10-28 07:53, Tump via RE-wrenches wrote: > ISOLATE ISOLATE ISOLATE. The first thing I would do id disable the Flex > net DC, next isolate each 12 v battery, ck voltages, load test, use > any automotive battery tester find 4 decent batteries and try again. > Have you replaced all the com cables? Cheap and w/ the possibility of > Lightning strike, its a no brainer. I have seen the FNDC cause all > sorts of issues due to battery issues. We at one time installed quite a > few only to have issues w/ batteries that were undercharged, customers > restarting the system w/ batteries that were not fully charged. When > rebooted the FNDC is assuming that the batteries ARE FULLY CHARGED and > have the rated capacity, which usually NOT the case. > Firmwares versions are easily found in the "system info" in the M3s > >> On Oct 26, 2022, at 8:04 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Hello All, >> >> Suzanne Csejtey of Design Energy contacted me with an Outback Radian / >> Flexmax 80 system problem. I don't know what is going on with this >> system. Below is her description of the problem. Any help would be >> appreciated. >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> System installed 2014. >> >> 6.6kW PV, Outback Radian 8048 inverter, (2) x Midnite Classic 200 >> charge controllers, 600Ah >> Battery bank (12 x 12V 200Ah Outback Energycell ) for backup of 100A >> aux panel >> >> It worked great, but the customer was always disappointed that she >> couldn't show her system >> online on one screen, because the Midnite charge controllers didn't >> talk to the Outback Mate 3. >> In 2017 the charge controllers were changed to (2) x Outback Flexmax >> 80's, and problems >> started a couple years after that. The system would shut down at least >> once a month, start up >> the next day, and the electrician couldn't find the problem but >> suspected grid instability. Outback tech support couldn't help until >> the system was on OpticsRE, late 2021. Tech support resolved the >> shutdown issue this year with 2 nd firmware upgrade and a few settings >> adjusted on Mate3. >> >> Radian GS8048 updated 2021, verified 8/2022 from tech support but I am >> not finding the >> firmware number. August 2022 tech support walked through our settings >> and verified all ok with batteries, CCs. Adjusted Mate3 to establish >> OpticsRE connection, verified not selling from >> battery/backup only. >> >> Worked very well until this September when a lightning storm >> apparently took out the internet >> modem and inverter comms with it. Solar and battery still working. >> Outback told us to replace >> the Mate3 and Hub, and then the FlexNet DC monitor. Latest firmware >> update attempted on >> new Mate3s when received, 001.004.007 but it was already installed and >> ready to go. >> >> Instead of setting everything up again from scratch after replacing >> Mate3 with Mate3S we >> decided to see if the charge controllers would repopulate the old >> information, as recommended >> in the Outback forum. Then tried to get help to verify settings from >> Outback support. Support >> had been very helpful in the past but this time we weren't so lucky >> and the person just let us >> know that wasn't their job and sent a link to the manual. But the >> batteries appeared to be at >> 100%, set not to sell, backup only, max PV self-consumption. The plan >> was to find more help to >> verify settings and keep an eye on the system. >> >> Seemed to be working very well until it went >> crazy last week, when the Mate showed alarm, batteries discharged down >> to 6%, then up to >> 100%, then everything shut down completely. >> >> Programming may be a big part of the issue. Also hearing that the age >> of the AGM batteries may have been a factor, 8 years. That sometimes >> dying batteries cause odd behavior? >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Drake >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> Athens Electric LLC >> Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 >> CO Master Electrician's License 4526 >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> Tump3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net >> >> Solarwinds Northernlights _ _ >> _ Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California_ >> _ 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> _ >> _ __Blair "TUMP" May_ >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> _ __ NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"_ >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> _ Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"_ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From maclewis1 at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 11:05:02 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:05:02 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sonnen tech support Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Does anyone know a good contact for Sonnen customer support? I've tried online, calling etc with no response after many attempts. Not impressed! Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cadams at sunrocksolar.com Fri Nov 11 13:42:54 2022 From: cadams at sunrocksolar.com (Carl Adams) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 13:42:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sonnen tech support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hell Mac, I recently went through the same thing with Sonnen. I left a couple messages on the support line and never heard back. Finally reached out to Sales and got some results. Support is communicating with us now on service at sonnen-batterie.com For a service appointment you must schedule it online (with about 1 week lead time it seems) https://calendly.com/us-technical-services I hope that helps. With Kind Regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar 513.290.9072 (mobile) On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:06 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > Does anyone know a good contact for Sonnen customer support? I've tried > online, calling etc with no response after many attempts. Not impressed! > > Thanks in advance > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Mon Nov 14 09:30:38 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 09:30:38 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty Message-ID: All, Have any of you waiting for repair / replacement of these battery packs had any success in the last year? I have -3- deemed defective units. One was sent back, over a year ago, still no word from LG on replacement status. The other -2- have been awaiting return boxes for over 6 - 9 months. My many requests for status have gone without reply from LG - I have been using the latest contact info to my knowledge. Any thoughts / experiences on this nightmare subject? FYI - none of my failed units were on their recall lists!!! -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Nov 14 10:02:35 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 09:02:35 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02a301d8f83a$219abbd0$64d03370$@solarcentex.com> Quite honestly this has been a complete nightmare but progress has been made. We have 7 or so batteries under recall and 3 that needed warranty support. We waited for….nine months…until the first replacements and that was only because our office manager was a woman on a mission and incessantly calling and emailing. LG seems to have improved its position and has replaced in a more timely way some of the failed batteries. I’m hoping the LG Prime 16 is a better battery than the LG Resu10. Seems so and I like the high discharge capability that really pairs well with a SE11400 Energy Hub inverter. We’ve had one warranty of a Prime 16. Feel free to contact me offline to makew sure you have the right numbers and POCs. There have been some personnel changes made and I assume that was to make improvements. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 8:31 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Kirk Herander Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty All, Have any of you waiting for repair / replacement of these battery packs had any success in the last year? I have -3- deemed defective units. One was sent back, over a year ago, still no word from LG on replacement status. The other -2- have been awaiting return boxes for over 6 - 9 months. My many requests for status have gone without reply from LG - I have been using the latest contact info to my knowledge. Any thoughts / experiences on this nightmare subject? FYI - none of my failed units were on their recall lists!!! -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Mon Nov 14 11:24:27 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 08:24:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty In-Reply-To: <02a301d8f83a$219abbd0$64d03370$@solarcentex.com> References: <02a301d8f83a$219abbd0$64d03370$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: <1353ced22ef071d26160a93d9dc828a1@sti.net> I wish I shared your optimism Scott on the LG Prime 16 being better battery than the LG Resu10. When I field tested the Resu 10 with Schneider in 2017, the specs on the unleased 48VResu 16 were the same for charge and discharge as the Resu10. You would think the larger battery would be better but it was not. The same BMS I would guess. The fact that you can't use any of these LG batteries without the loop closed to the inverter is a serious flaw (they shut down without the heartbeat) that people like Discover AES learned from. Something very wrong that LG is still in the dark ages of a home battery, in my opinion. AES did not carry out this poor design policy and built the perfect LFP for my clients and my wife and I. LG is NMC and even advertised them installed in a Kitchen? We killed the Resu 10 with too much XW charge current BTW. The dead ones went out to the desert of California to be recycled. Another story..... Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-11-14 7:02 am, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches wrote: > Quite honestly this has been a complete nightmare but progress has been > made. > > We have 7 or so batteries under recall and 3 that needed warranty > support. We waited for....nine months...until the first replacements > and that was only because our office manager was a woman on a mission > and incessantly calling and emailing. > > LG seems to have improved its position and has replaced in a more > timely way some of the failed batteries. > > I'm hoping the LG Prime 16 is a better battery than the LG Resu10. > Seems so and I like the high discharge capability that really pairs > well with a SE11400 Energy Hub inverter. We've had one warranty of a > Prime 16. > > Feel free to contact me offline to makew sure you have the right > numbers and POCs. There have been some personnel changes made and I > assume that was to make improvements. > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 8:31 AM > To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > Cc: Kirk Herander > Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty > > All, > > Have any of you waiting for repair / replacement of these battery packs > had any success in the last year? > > I have -3- deemed defective units. One was sent back, over a year ago, > still no word from LG on replacement status. > > The other -2- have been awaiting return boxes for over 6 - 9 months. > > My many requests for status have gone without reply from LG - I have > been using the latest contact info to my knowledge. > > Any thoughts / experiences on this nightmare subject? > > FYI - none of my failed units were on their recall lists!!! > > -- > > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > > _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ > > www.vermont.solar [1] > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645&sdata=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Nov 14 12:32:59 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 11:32:59 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty In-Reply-To: <1353ced22ef071d26160a93d9dc828a1@sti.net> References: <02a301d8f83a$219abbd0$64d03370$@solarcentex.com> <1353ced22ef071d26160a93d9dc828a1@sti.net> Message-ID: <003201d8f84f$247d35c0$6d77a140$@solarcentex.com> I think we are discussing different batteries. The LG Prime 16 is a high voltage 400-volt battery compatible with SolarEdge that operates at that same nominal voltage. I have heard of a 48-volt LG but it is not out in large quantities, if at all, and is not the one I am referring to. The LG Prime 16 undoubtedly has higher charge/discharge rates than the LG Resu 10. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 10:24 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty I wish I shared your optimism Scott on the LG Prime 16 being better battery than the LG Resu10. When I field tested the Resu 10 with Schneider in 2017, the specs on the unleased 48VResu 16 were the same for charge and discharge as the Resu10. You would think the larger battery would be better but it was not. The same BMS I would guess. The fact that you can't use any of these LG batteries without the loop closed to the inverter is a serious flaw (they shut down without the heartbeat) that people like Discover AES learned from. Something very wrong that LG is still in the dark ages of a home battery, in my opinion. AES did not carry out this poor design policy and built the perfect LFP for my clients and my wife and I. LG is NMC and even advertised them installed in a Kitchen? We killed the Resu 10 with too much XW charge current BTW. The dead ones went out to the desert of California to be recycled. Another story..... Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-11-14 7:02 am, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches wrote: Quite honestly this has been a complete nightmare but progress has been made. We have 7 or so batteries under recall and 3 that needed warranty support. We waited for....nine months...until the first replacements and that was only because our office manager was a woman on a mission and incessantly calling and emailing. LG seems to have improved its position and has replaced in a more timely way some of the failed batteries. I'm hoping the LG Prime 16 is a better battery than the LG Resu10. Seems so and I like the high discharge capability that really pairs well with a SE11400 Energy Hub inverter. We've had one warranty of a Prime 16. Feel free to contact me offline to makew sure you have the right numbers and POCs. There have been some personnel changes made and I assume that was to make improvements. From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 8:31 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Kirk Herander > Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty All, Have any of you waiting for repair / replacement of these battery packs had any success in the last year? I have -3- deemed defective units. One was sent back, over a year ago, still no word from LG on replacement status. The other -2- have been awaiting return boxes for over 6 - 9 months. My many requests for status have gone without reply from LG - I have been using the latest contact info to my knowledge. Any thoughts / experiences on this nightmare subject? FYI - none of my failed units were on their recall lists!!! -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!! www.vermont.solar dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Mon Nov 14 14:17:29 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 11:17:29 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty In-Reply-To: <6a973447991df77cad9ba58125efb7cf@sti.net> References: <02a301d8f83a$219abbd0$64d03370$@solarcentex.com> <1353ced22ef071d26160a93d9dc828a1@sti.net> <003201d8f84f$247d35c0$6d77a140$@solarcentex.com> <6a973447991df77cad9ba58125efb7cf@sti.net> Message-ID: <834d57fa30d6f1c133a67095ecb8b1cc@sti.net> Check the charge rates ! It is from LG and I know they are different voltages. My experience is old and not on the new gear. They are from LG who after working directly with them...... Either way, there are too many good choices out there to be installing NMC batteries in or near a home these days. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-11-14 9:32 am, scot.arey at solarcentex.com wrote: I think we are discussing different batteries. The LG Prime 16 is a high voltage 400-volt battery compatible with SolarEdge that operates at that same nominal voltage. I have heard of a 48-volt LG but it is not out in large quantities, if at all, and is not the one I am referring to. The LG Prime 16 undoubtedly has higher charge/discharge rates than the LG Resu 10. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 10:24 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty I wish I shared your optimism Scott on the LG Prime 16 being better battery than the LG Resu10. When I field tested the Resu 10 with Schneider in 2017, the specs on the unleased 48VResu 16 were the same for charge and discharge as the Resu10. You would think the larger battery would be better but it was not. The same BMS I would guess. The fact that you can't use any of these LG batteries without the loop closed to the inverter is a serious flaw (they shut down without the heartbeat) that people like Discover AES learned from. Something very wrong that LG is still in the dark ages of a home battery, in my opinion. AES did not carry out this poor design policy and built the perfect LFP for my clients and my wife and I. LG is NMC and even advertised them installed in a Kitchen? We killed the Resu 10 with too much XW charge current BTW. The dead ones went out to the desert of California to be recycled. Another story..... Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-11-14 7:02 am, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches wrote: Quite honestly this has been a complete nightmare but progress has been made. We have 7 or so batteries under recall and 3 that needed warranty support. We waited for....nine months...until the first replacements and that was only because our office manager was a woman on a mission and incessantly calling and emailing. LG seems to have improved its position and has replaced in a more timely way some of the failed batteries. I'm hoping the LG Prime 16 is a better battery than the LG Resu10. Seems so and I like the high discharge capability that really pairs well with a SE11400 Energy Hub inverter. We've had one warranty of a Prime 16. Feel free to contact me offline to makew sure you have the right numbers and POCs. There have been some personnel changes made and I assume that was to make improvements. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 8:31 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Kirk Herander Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty All, Have any of you waiting for repair / replacement of these battery packs had any success in the last year? I have -3- deemed defective units. One was sent back, over a year ago, still no word from LG on replacement status. The other -2- have been awaiting return boxes for over 6 - 9 months. My many requests for status have gone without reply from LG - I have been using the latest contact info to my knowledge. Any thoughts / experiences on this nightmare subject? FYI - none of my failed units were on their recall lists!!! -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ www.vermont.solar [1] dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645&sdata=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solsierra1 at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 14:29:56 2022 From: solsierra1 at gmail.com (Vic Guillot) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 11:29:56 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty In-Reply-To: <02a301d8f83a$219abbd0$64d03370$@solarcentex.com> References: <02a301d8f83a$219abbd0$64d03370$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: I agree with Scot. This has been a total nightmare for our company. We are still trying to get all of our customers back where they should be. It has taken well over a year and we're not done yet. The original crew at LG Chem was able to pass off the entire Recall job to a group of newbies who had no idea what they were getting into or how to effectively run the Recall. I could go on for hours...They are presently trying, but the current crew haven't been there long enough to know what we have been dealing with. We made the decision to never sell another LG Chem product based on how they have treated the installer base. We just want to end the nightmare... Vic Guillot On Mon, Nov 14, 2022, 7:03 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Quite honestly this has been a complete nightmare but progress has been > made. > > > > We have 7 or so batteries under recall and 3 that needed warranty support. > We waited for….nine months…until the first replacements and that was only > because our office manager was a woman on a mission and incessantly calling > and emailing. > > > > LG seems to have improved its position and has replaced in a more timely > way some of the failed batteries. > > > > I’m hoping the LG Prime 16 is a better battery than the LG Resu10. Seems > so and I like the high discharge capability that really pairs well with a > SE11400 Energy Hub inverter. We’ve had one warranty of a Prime 16. > > > > Feel free to contact me offline to makew sure you have the right numbers > and POCs. There have been some personnel changes made and I assume that was > to make improvements. > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Monday, November 14, 2022 8:31 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Kirk Herander > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty > > > > All, > > Have any of you waiting for repair / replacement of these battery packs > had any success in the last year? > > I have -3- deemed defective units. One was sent back, over a year ago, > still no word from LG on replacement status. > > The other -2- have been awaiting return boxes for over 6 - 9 months. > > > > My many requests for status have gone without reply from LG - I have been > using the latest contact info to my knowledge. > > Any thoughts / experiences on this nightmare subject? > > > > FYI - none of my failed units were on their recall lists!!! > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 136365 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hiltondier at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 16:15:08 2022 From: hiltondier at gmail.com (Hilton Dier) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 16:15:08 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty Message-ID: <73714E07-DD8D-46C5-9FB9-62122C013FE9@gmail.com> Just as a bit of context, LG is in the middle of a gigantic warranty recall and replacement of every 2019-2022 Chevy Bolt battery pack. As far as I can tell the recall is overly cautious, but it’s good that they are stepping up. It’s not an excuse for bad service, but an explanation for why there might be a shortage of both batteries and attention. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Mon Nov 14 17:00:44 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 16:00:44 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty In-Reply-To: <73714E07-DD8D-46C5-9FB9-62122C013FE9@gmail.com> References: <73714E07-DD8D-46C5-9FB9-62122C013FE9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <047a01d8f874$8c0b1160$a4213420$@solarcentex.com> I agree. I also had a Bolt battery recall and we joked that GM probably got better priority than Solar CenTex for limited battery stock. Glad you added that important context. Scot -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 3:15 PM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Hilton Dier Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty Just as a bit of context, LG is in the middle of a gigantic warranty recall and replacement of every 2019-2022 Chevy Bolt battery pack. As far as I can tell the recall is overly cautious, but it’s good that they are stepping up. It’s not an excuse for bad service, but an explanation for why there might be a shortage of both batteries and attention. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From penobscotsolar at midmaine.com Tue Nov 15 15:32:58 2022 From: penobscotsolar at midmaine.com (penobscotsolar at midmaine.com) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2022 15:32:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU warranty In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <925db234da82267ff075318b8ee11029@midmaine.com> It literally took a year and constant pestering to get a shipping carton and finally replacement batteries. I had to monthly send "bordering on the insulting" email inquiries to them. Both batteries are finally back and performing well. On 2022-11-14 9:30 am, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > All, > Have any of you waiting for repair / replacement of these battery > packs had any success in the last year? > I have -3- deemed defective units. One was sent back, over a year ago, > still no word from LG on replacement status. > The other -2- have been awaiting return boxes for over 6 - 9 months. > > My many requests for status have gone without reply from LG - I have > been using the latest contact info to my knowledge. > Any thoughts / experiences on this nightmare subject? > > FYI - none of my failed units were on their recall lists!!! > > -- > > Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar > > Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC > > _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ > > www.vermont.solar [1] > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > Links: > ------ > [1] > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645&sdata=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D&reserved=0 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Wed Nov 16 09:33:09 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:33:09 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility Message-ID: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that. At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tigo Transmitter Powering.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 25665 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 09:52:47 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 06:52:47 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: Chris, Assuming there will be 48V batteries in the system - connect the Tigo transmitter via a 48V to 12V power supply and come off of the battery bussing. If there are no batteries now, use the 120V-12V power supply from the backed up loads panel - then when they get batteries that panel will remain live even during power outage and allow panels to remain on even with grid outage. You will need to install an additional rapid shutdown switch in line with power to the transmitter if rapid shutdown is required or desired.. If there are no batteries now, then solar can't stay on anyway during power outages.. Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is > SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me > a little bit walking in circles. > > I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for > connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they > ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker > which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main > service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them > that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery > charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC > source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and > emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for > RS. I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not > to do that. > > At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they > wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel > > > > > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From roland at renewablenergy.com Wed Nov 16 11:20:02 2022 From: roland at renewablenergy.com (Roland - RES) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 06:20:02 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tigo Transmitter Powering.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 25665 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 11:41:00 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:41:00 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve rapid shut down. Best, Chris On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Aloha Chris, > > We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the > transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date. > > Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse > shortcuts and typos. > > > Roland Shackelford > NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER > President > Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. > Mobile: *808-938-9239 * > www.renewablenergy.com > > On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is > SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me > a little bit walking in circles. > > I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for > connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they > ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker > which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main > service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them > that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery > charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC > source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and > emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for > RS. I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not > to do that. > > At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they > wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel > > > > > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Wed Nov 16 12:38:39 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:38:39 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <8801085B-0368-4CED-BAFB-A9E758533EC7@me.com> All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying- Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter) I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes have changed. Enjoy your day, Nick > On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Chris, > > I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve rapid shut down. > > Best, > > Chris > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches > wrote: > Aloha Chris, > > We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date. > >> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. >> > Roland Shackelford > NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER > President > Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. > Mobile: 808-938-9239 > www.renewablenergy.com > >> On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> >>  > >> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. >> >> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS. I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that. >> >> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Christopher Warfel >> ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >> 401-466-8978 >> >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kent at coveoregon.com Wed Nov 16 13:38:01 2022 From: kent at coveoregon.com (Kent) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 10:38:01 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: <8801085B-0368-4CED-BAFB-A9E758533EC7@me.com> References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> <8801085B-0368-4CED-BAFB-A9E758533EC7@me.com> Message-ID: <2220fd7c-c19f-5394-c0d3-e377827215ca@coveoregon.com> As of the March 2022 manuals there are contradictory statements: * (+15, -16) 12V power supply for RSD transmitters: such as TIGO and Midnite Rated for a maximum of 1.2W (100mA @12V) and * TIGO Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 8K (Do not use the built in 12V Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to Power the Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter) Why use Tigo as an example for the pins purpose in one location and then say don't use them do it in another? Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar On 11/16/2022 9:38 AM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote: > All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially > confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. > Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated > April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying- > > Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use > the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the > Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter) > > I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not > looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes > have changed. > > Enjoy your day, Nick > > > >> On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark >> suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS >> Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS >> transmitter to achieve rapid shut down. >> >> Best, >> >> Chris >> >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Aloha Chris, >> >> We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have >> the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no >> issues to date. >> >>> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please >>> excuse shortcuts and typos. >>> >> Roland Shackelford >> NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER >> President >> Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. >> Mobile: _808-938-9239 _ >> www.renewablenergy.com >> >>> On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches >>> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> >>> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The >>> inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is >>> the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. >>> >>> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output >>> terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the >>> attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter >>> connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They >>> told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so >>> the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is >>> exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the >>> battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I >>> wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After >>> about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to >>> use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a >>> screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that. >>> >>> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how >>> they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any >>> guidance, Chris Warfel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>>     Christopher Warfel >>>              ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >>> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >>> 401-466-8978 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>> work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Wed Nov 16 13:58:54 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 11:58:54 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems Message-ID: <8d28685f-f829-b3e9-377c-b85988eee4ca@solarray.com> Greetings Fellow Wrenches; Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues.  First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/ slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common buss with equal length 4/0 cables. I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket.  Now I can't even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries. Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support?  Does anyone have a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands. Thanks; Ray Walters Remote Solar From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 14:19:54 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 14:19:54 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <8d28685f-f829-b3e9-377c-b85988eee4ca@solarray.com> References: <8d28685f-f829-b3e9-377c-b85988eee4ca@solarray.com> Message-ID: Hi Ray, I have been having a difficult time communicating with Fortress as well. I filed a support ticket several times and only got a response a couple of days later asking another question that was easily answered, but then do not receive any reply to that without filing another support ticket, which again takes days for them to respond to. Very unsatisfactory and frustrating after having invested in 7 eVault Max for a long time client. Don't have any suggestions for you. *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:02 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Greetings Fellow Wrenches; > > Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a > battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a > better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues. > First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/ > slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have > SOC often 20% different. Batteries are connected to a common buss with > equal length 4/0 cables. > > I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've > called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to > anyone. Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had > a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket. Now I can't > even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email > back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries. > > Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support? Does anyone have > a direct contact? Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks > hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands. > > Thanks; > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 14:40:14 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 14:40:14 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: References: <8d28685f-f829-b3e9-377c-b85988eee4ca@solarray.com> Message-ID: Hi Ray, I would suggest pushing the latest firmware update to both units. https://www.fortresspower.com/firmware/ re: tech support… I have had good luck speaking directly to Tom: Thomas Honey Fortress Power Applications Engineering (215) 613-4318 x4318 tomh at fortresspower.com I agree that Fortress’ Discord, online ticketing system and phone support are subpar. Call me old school, but an answered phone call when on-site is a must have feature of any manufacturer. Hope this helps, -Chris On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:20 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi Ray, > I have been having a difficult time communicating with Fortress as well. > I filed a support ticket several times and only got a response a couple of > days later asking another question that was easily answered, but then do > not receive any reply to that without filing another support ticket, which > again takes days for them to respond to. Very unsatisfactory and > frustrating after having invested in 7 eVault Max for a long time client. > Don't have any suggestions for you. > > *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* > > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:02 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Greetings Fellow Wrenches; >> >> Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a >> battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a >> better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues. >> First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/ >> slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have >> SOC often 20% different. Batteries are connected to a common buss with >> equal length 4/0 cables. >> >> I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've >> called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to >> anyone. Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had >> a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket. Now I can't >> even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email >> back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries. >> >> Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support? Does anyone have >> a direct contact? Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks >> hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands. >> >> Thanks; >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Wed Nov 16 15:14:24 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 13:14:24 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: References: <8d28685f-f829-b3e9-377c-b85988eee4ca@solarray.com> Message-ID: <83a57e00-a2eb-87e9-abb1-82467bca5088@solarray.com> I finally heard back from Fortress, I'm going to try their suggestion of "equalizing" the batteries at 55.5 v, and adjust some settings.  I'll report back to the list on what I come up with.  This is an interesting application: quad stack of VFX inverters with Midnite CCs.   Using the aux out on the Classic to control a relay to turn on/off the inverters for LVD, since Outback programming (like Schneider) won't allow LVD settings above 48v. Ray On 11/16/2022 12:40 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Ray, > > I would suggest pushing the latest firmware update to both units. > > https://www.fortresspower.com/firmware/ > > re: tech support… > > I have had good luck speaking directly to Tom: > > Thomas Honey > Fortress Power > Applications Engineering > (215) 613-4318 x4318 > tomh at fortresspower.com > > I agree that Fortress’ Discord, online ticketing system and phone > support are subpar. Call me old school, but an answered phone call > when on-site is a must have feature of any manufacturer. > > Hope this helps, > > -Chris > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:20 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi Ray, > I have been having a difficult time communicating with Fortress as > well.  I filed a support ticket several times and only got a > response a couple of days later asking another question that was > easily answered, but then do not receive any reply to that without > filing another support ticket, which again takes days for them to > respond to. Very unsatisfactory and frustrating after having > invested in 7 eVault Max for a long time client. Don't have any > suggestions for you. > *Howie Michaelson > **Sun Catcher* > *****/NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > /** > **Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004* > > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:02 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Greetings Fellow Wrenches; > > Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used > Fortress for a > battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it > seems to be a > better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having > issues. > First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in > a master/ > slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, > and have > SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common > buss with > equal length 4/0 cables. > > I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. > First, I've > called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got > through to > anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well, > and I had > a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket. Now I > can't > even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received > one email > back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries. > > Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support? Does > anyone have > a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost > 2 weeks > hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands. > > Thanks; > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 15:36:35 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 12:36:35 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <8d28685f-f829-b3e9-377c-b85988eee4ca@solarray.com> References: <8d28685f-f829-b3e9-377c-b85988eee4ca@solarray.com> Message-ID: Wrenches and Ray So did you properly configuer the master slave battery config, I have several set up with no issues SOC is within1 to 2% and volatge is the same, what inverter/chargers are you using are you still connnected to bat temp sensors I assume there is no connection to the inverter(s) Jerry On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:02 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Greetings Fellow Wrenches; > > Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a > battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a > better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues. > First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/ > slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have > SOC often 20% different. Batteries are connected to a common buss with > equal length 4/0 cables. > > I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've > called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to > anyone. Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had > a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket. Now I can't > even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email > back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries. > > Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support? Does anyone have > a direct contact? Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks > hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands. > > Thanks; > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Wed Nov 16 16:18:47 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 16:18:47 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: <8801085B-0368-4CED-BAFB-A9E758533EC7@me.com> References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> <8801085B-0368-4CED-BAFB-A9E758533EC7@me.com> Message-ID: <8368220b-a4c6-bff7-dc5e-4fd9d2e8271a@entech-engineering.com> Hi Nick and List, that was my problem exactly. Chris On 11/16/2022 12:38 PM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote: > All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially > confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. > Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated > April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying- > > Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use > the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the > Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter) > > I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not > looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes > have changed. > > Enjoy your day, Nick > > > >> On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark >> suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS >> Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS >> transmitter to achieve rapid shut down. >> >> Best, >> >> Chris >> >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Aloha Chris, >> >> We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have >> the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no >> issues to date. >> >>> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please >>> excuse shortcuts and typos. >>> >> Roland Shackelford >> NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER >> President >> Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. >> Mobile: _808-938-9239 _ >> www.renewablenergy.com >> >>> On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches >>> wrote: >>> >>>  >>> >>> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The >>> inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is >>> the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. >>> >>> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output >>> terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the >>> attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter >>> connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They >>> told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so >>> the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is >>> exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the >>> battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I >>> wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After >>> about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to >>> use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a >>> screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that. >>> >>> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how >>> they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any >>> guidance, Chris Warfel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>>     Christopher Warfel >>>              ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >>> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >>> 401-466-8978 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>> work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- >> Chris Sparadeo >> >> >> C_802-369-4458 >> H_802-728-3059 >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dustin at sol-ark.com Wed Nov 16 18:55:24 2022 From: dustin at sol-ark.com (Dustin Douglas) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 17:55:24 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> <8801085B-0368-4CED-BAFB-A9E758533EC7@me.com> <8368220b-a4c6-bff7-dc5e-4fd9d2e8271a@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <18482de68ca.11c5794831381148.449726866359436269@sol-ark.com> Hello All, The utilization of the onboard 12v DC power supply is dependent on the Rapid Shutdown Device that you are using, whether Tigo/APSystems/Midnite. Tigo has many different solutions in their TS4 series of products. The devices that utilize the RSS Transmitter only, TS4-A-F and TS4-A-2F receivers, will be able to utilize the onboard 12v power supply to power the RSS Transmitter. It is possible to power the RSS Transmitter separately from the inverter if it makes the most sense for the project. However, if you are using any of the other TS4 series (TS4-A-O, TS4-A-M and TS4-A-S) these require the use of the CCA (Cloud Connect Advance) and the TAP (Tigo Access Point) kit provided by Tigo to provide the PTO (permission to operate) signal to the receivers. Both the CCA and TAP kit must be powered separately from the included 12vDC power supply in the Sol-Ark as this exceeds the power supply. We recommend that these items be powered by a 120vAC circuit connected to the "Load" breaker of the Sol-Ark so that the CCA and TAP kit are powered during a grid outage. Thank you and have a blessed day, Dustin Douglas ---- On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 16:37:57 -0600 Chris Sparadeo wrote --- @DustinDouglas do you mind confirming if the Tigo RSS Transmitter is compatible with the 12vdc power supply from Sol-Ark, and if not…what should we be doing to supply power without having to rely on 120VAC output of the inverter?  Thanks, -Chris  On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:22 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi Nick and List, that was my problem exactly.  Chris On 11/16/2022 12:38 PM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote: All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying- Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter) I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes have changed. Enjoy your day, Nick On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi Chris, I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve rapid shut down.  Best, Chris  On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches wrote: Aloha Chris, We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date. Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse shortcuts and typos.  Roland Shackelford NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER President  Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.  Mobile:  http://808-938-9239/ http://www.renewablenergy.com/ On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches wrote:  Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that. At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel --                                          Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                                             401-466-8978 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org/ List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org/ List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org --                                          Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                                             401-466-8978 http://entech-engineering.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 19:24:15 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 16:24:15 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: Wrenches, Christopher I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in the inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the output side it would do much the same work until it did not then shut off the modules. Fun times On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is > SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me > a little bit walking in circles. > > I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for > connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they > ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker > which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main > service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them > that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery > charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC > source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and > emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for > RS. I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not > to do that. > > At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they > wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel > > > > > > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maverick at mavericksolar.com Wed Nov 16 20:46:57 2022 From: maverick at mavericksolar.com (Maverick Brown) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 19:46:57 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <83a57e00-a2eb-87e9-abb1-82467bca5088@solarray.com> References: <83a57e00-a2eb-87e9-abb1-82467bca5088@solarray.com> Message-ID: <4A3A3175-0052-40E2-8EC5-4BB7ED0E2493@mavericksolar.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: preview.png Type: image/png Size: 227257 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 21:16:21 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 18:16:21 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <4A3A3175-0052-40E2-8EC5-4BB7ED0E2493@mavericksolar.com> References: <83a57e00-a2eb-87e9-abb1-82467bca5088@solarray.com> <4A3A3175-0052-40E2-8EC5-4BB7ED0E2493@mavericksolar.com> Message-ID: It seems best not to have a temp sensor installed and use the default of 75 degrees. SMA needs a resister to hold the temp. Fun times On Wed, Nov 16, 2022, 5:48 PM Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Ray > > I’ve installed eFlex and eVault MAX on Outback and Schnieder. Rock solid > so far. I’ve noticed the lower charge voltages cause or amplify a > variability in the SOC and bring up the Absorb a bit solves the issue. > > The fortress / Outback integration guide has values for charge controllers > and has Absorb at 55.2 for two hours. Some of the integration guides have a > lower Absorb setting. I’m not sure why. I’ve had to measure actual inverter > voltages and adjust the charger settings to over come any minor calibration > issues. The Classic can be calibrated quite easily from the tweaks menu. > Also, if using an FNDC, make sure that is calibrated to bus bar voltage > that batteries are producing. > > [image: preview.png] > > Fortress-Power-Outback-Inverter-Guide-Rev1.6_1.21.2022 > > PDF Document · 595 KB > > > > > > https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/fndc_field_cal_app_note.pdf > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > *Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.* > * • Solar Commander Remote Power* > > * • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection *maverick at mavericksolar.com > 512-460-9825 > > > On Nov 16, 2022, at 2:15 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > > I finally heard back from Fortress, I'm going to try their suggestion of > "equalizing" the batteries at 55.5 v, and adjust some settings. I'll > report back to the list on what I come up with. This is an interesting > application: quad stack of VFX inverters with Midnite CCs. Using the aux > out on the Classic to control a relay to turn on/off the inverters for LVD, > since Outback programming (like Schneider) won't allow LVD settings above > 48v. > > Ray > On 11/16/2022 12:40 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I would suggest pushing the latest firmware update to both units. > > https://www.fortresspower.com/firmware/ > > re: tech support… > > I have had good luck speaking directly to Tom: > > Thomas Honey > Fortress Power > Applications Engineering > (215) 613-4318 x4318 > tomh at fortresspower.com > > I agree that Fortress’ Discord, online ticketing system and phone support > are subpar. Call me old school, but an answered phone call when on-site is > a must have feature of any manufacturer. > > Hope this helps, > > -Chris > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:20 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi Ray, >> I have been having a difficult time communicating with Fortress as well. >> I filed a support ticket several times and only got a response a couple of >> days later asking another question that was easily answered, but then do >> not receive any reply to that without filing another support ticket, which >> again takes days for them to respond to. Very unsatisfactory and >> frustrating after having invested in 7 eVault Max for a long time client. >> Don't have any suggestions for you. >> >> *Howie Michaelson **Sun Catcher* >> >> *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ * >> >> *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004* >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:02 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Greetings Fellow Wrenches; >>> >>> Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a >>> battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a >>> better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues. >>> First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/ >>> slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have >>> SOC often 20% different. Batteries are connected to a common buss with >>> equal length 4/0 cables. >>> >>> I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've >>> called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to >>> anyone. Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had >>> a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket. Now I can't >>> even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email >>> back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries. >>> >>> Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support? Does anyone have >>> a direct contact? Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks >>> hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands. >>> >>> Thanks; >>> >>> Ray Walters >>> Remote Solar >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > Chris Sparadeo > > > C_802-369-4458 > H_802-728-3059 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: preview.png Type: image/png Size: 227257 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: preview.png Type: image/png Size: 227257 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 22:14:15 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 19:14:15 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the APsmart transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have used this successfully I suppose that means that either these transmitters don't really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark can actually handle more than that, or some combination of both. If I owned a Sol-Ark I'd test this to see what the answer is, but alas I do not. I design systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply (Online Components has a Mean-Well device for a reasonable price, sorry no link from here) and a fairly rare IMO shutdown button (we have that) that has both NO and NC contacts. This is needed because to shut down the Sol-Ark inverter requires a NO contact that closes on initiation which is quite rare in RSD initiators. And you do still need to shut down the inverter as well as the RSD devices so that it does not continue to feed voltage back into the PV circuits (I think). This also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which tends to make the inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the inverter, that limits the battery to its own circuits, does this count as a battery disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors calling out for battery disconnects which is much more problematic. Brad Bassett AEE Solar On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, Christopher > I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in the > inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the output side it > would do much the same work until it did not then shut off the modules. > Fun times > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is >> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me >> a little bit walking in circles. >> >> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for >> connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they >> ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker >> which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main >> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them >> that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery >> charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC >> source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and >> emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for >> RS. I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not >> to do that. >> >> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they >> wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Christopher Warfel >> ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >> 401-466-8978 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Thu Nov 17 00:58:06 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 00:58:06 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue Message-ID: Good Evening, I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. Thanks, Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Thu Nov 17 01:43:22 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2022 23:43:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Talk to Thomas Honey.  He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and knowledgeable wrench.   He has stepped in on my issue. Ray On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: > Good Evening, > > I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs > connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, > replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt > Rolls battery system.  Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to > the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup > closed loop, and things seemed fine.  The battery charged at around 95 > amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, > went through the procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary > settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. > > Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get > the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps.  Fortress has > pretty much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the > communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). > They say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to > that low, especially if the batteries were in a lower state of > charge.  We've talked to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more > than once.  We have changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, > and Battery Voltage multiple times.  We've tried dropping back to a > single battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one > (changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only > seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up to about > 40 amps total). > > This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested > that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the > generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per > Sol-Ark's recommendation.  Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the > moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they will > start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a lower SOC > along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I don't think it > will - it didn't the last several times. > > Has anybody seen this type of behavior before?  I don't think it is a > settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have > gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white > papers. Hoping to get higher level  tech involved ASAP, since I don't > feel like the lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. > > Thanks, > Howie > *Howie Michaelson > **Sun Catcher* > *****/NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > /** > **Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004* > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich at solartechvt.com Thu Nov 17 15:16:07 2022 From: rich at solartechvt.com (rich at solartechvt.com) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:16:07 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <024a01d8fac1$6e4cf900$4ae6eb00$@solartechvt.com> We’ve started to use Fortress batteries for off grid installations lately as well. The tech support has been very frustrating and the integration guides are ridiculous – the Magnum guide was the worst – absolute nonsense, I believe most of which has been pulled from the Fortress site now. The variation in charge parameters for the inverter vs the charge controller for the Outback guide doesn’t make sense either. Lack of generator start/stop parameters in the integration guides have resulted in trial and error programming on our part to zero in on what works best. Poor tech support on battery based systems is one of my biggest pet peeves in the industry………off grid customers rely on their equipment, unlike net metered installations it’s not just a matter of reducing their electrical bill it’s about keeping the lights on and the fridge working. From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:43 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Ray Walters Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue Talk to Thomas Honey. He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and knowledgeable wrench. He has stepped in on my issue. Ray On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: Good Evening, I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. Thanks, Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Image removed by sender. Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ray at solarray.com Thu Nov 17 17:14:16 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:14:16 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue In-Reply-To: <024a01d8fac1$6e4cf900$4ae6eb00$@solartechvt.com> References: <024a01d8fac1$6e4cf900$4ae6eb00$@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: <7505fa6a-23a1-c394-d761-14bba5e128e3@solarray.com> I really think that the Fortress battery could easily be the top battery choice right now, if......they could vastly improve their customer support.  Tom has been great now that he contacted me, but it was weeks of frustration and no communication before that. Completely unacceptable, especially for a new emerging technology that we are going to have extra issues integrating into old systems.  I second your assessment of the integration guides as well.   I have a 4 hour round trip to change some voltage settings.................RETURN TRIPS is LOSING $$$!!! However, once they cure those issues, the product itself is way beyond others such as Simpliphi or Blue Ion. Blue Ion = half a day of assembly and cell wiring, monitoring is by E-gage (AC only) through the customer's router, price way too high Fortress = remove crating material from pallet and roll into place, with built in color touch screen for monitoring, price much better. Simpliphi = no monitoring at all, have to parallel ridiculous qty of batteries to do a normal off grid home, but integration guides are the best. Ray Walters On 11/17/2022 1:16 PM, rich at solartechvt.com wrote: > > We’ve started to use Fortress batteries for off grid installations > lately as well. The tech support has been very frustrating and the > integration guides are ridiculous – the Magnum guide was the worst – > absolute nonsense, I believe most of which has been pulled from the > Fortress site now. The variation in charge parameters for the inverter > vs the charge controller for the Outback guide doesn’t make sense > either. Lack of generator start/stop parameters in the integration > guides have resulted in trial and error programming on our part to > zero in on what works best. > > Poor tech support on battery based systems is one of my biggest pet > peeves in the industry………off grid customers rely on their equipment, > unlike net metered installations it’s not just a matter of reducing > their electrical bill it’s about keeping the lights on and the fridge > working. > > *From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] > *On Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:43 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Ray Walters > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue > > Talk to Thomas Honey.  He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and > knowledgeable wrench.   He has stepped in on my issue. > > Ray > > On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Good Evening, > > I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault > Maxs connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last > week, replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and > 2-volt Rolls battery system.  Initially, we connected one of the > eVaults to the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's > specs, setup closed loop, and things seemed fine.  The battery > charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we > connected the 2nd eVault, went through the procedures as Fortress > suggested, made the necessary settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and > that is when the issue started. > > Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to > get the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps.  > Fortress has pretty much said that it can't be anything on their > end (although the communication with them has been very much > limited and frustrating). They say that nothing on their side > would limit the charge rate to that low, especially if the > batteries were in a lower state of charge.  We've talked to at > least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once.  We have > changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery > Voltage multiple times.  We've tried dropping back to a single > battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one > (changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have > only seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up > to about 40 amps total). > > This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested > that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles > (the generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per > Sol-Ark's recommendation.  Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at > the moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they > will start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a > lower SOC along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I > don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. > > Has anybody seen this type of behavior before?  I don't think it > is a settings issue, as several technicians have gone through > them, I have gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark > integration white papers. Hoping to get higher level  tech > involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the lower level techs know > enough to provide useful ideas. > > Thanks, > > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson > **Sun Catcher* > */NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > /**Image removed by sender.** > **Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service > **802-272-0004* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Nov 17 17:36:06 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 17:36:06 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue In-Reply-To: <7505fa6a-23a1-c394-d761-14bba5e128e3@solarray.com> References: <024a01d8fac1$6e4cf900$4ae6eb00$@solartechvt.com> <7505fa6a-23a1-c394-d761-14bba5e128e3@solarray.com> Message-ID: I'm thinking of Fortress to replace older Lead acid batts for a customer right now. My LI - LFP experience is with Blue Planet - Blue Ion both high and low voltage. Yes they are expensive. And IMO they easily overlooked a simple, integrated display with just the basics for off-grid customers. Namaka and even egauge is way overkill for the average off-gridder. That said, I'm not encouraged by the Fortress comments I'm seeing here either. I'd rather just use them with an OB radian, which I know best. Thoughts on Radian with Fortress? Thanks. On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 5:15 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I really think that the Fortress battery could easily be the top battery > choice right now, if......they could vastly improve their customer > support. Tom has been great now that he contacted me, but it was weeks of > frustration and no communication before that. Completely unacceptable, > especially for a new emerging technology that we are going to have extra > issues integrating into old systems. I second your assessment of the > integration guides as well. I have a 4 hour round trip to change some > voltage settings.................RETURN TRIPS is LOSING $$$!!! > > However, once they cure those issues, the product itself is way beyond > others such as Simpliphi or Blue Ion. > > Blue Ion = half a day of assembly and cell wiring, monitoring is by E-gage > (AC only) through the customer's router, price way too high > > Fortress = remove crating material from pallet and roll into place, with > built in color touch screen for monitoring, price much better. > > Simpliphi = no monitoring at all, have to parallel ridiculous qty of > batteries to do a normal off grid home, but integration guides are the best. > > Ray Walters > On 11/17/2022 1:16 PM, rich at solartechvt.com wrote: > > We’ve started to use Fortress batteries for off grid installations lately > as well. The tech support has been very frustrating and the integration > guides are ridiculous – the Magnum guide was the worst – absolute nonsense, > I believe most of which has been pulled from the Fortress site now. The > variation in charge parameters for the inverter vs the charge controller > for the Outback guide doesn’t make sense either. Lack of generator > start/stop parameters in the integration guides have resulted in trial and > error programming on our part to zero in on what works best. > > > > Poor tech support on battery based systems is one of my biggest pet peeves > in the industry………off grid customers rely on their equipment, unlike net > metered installations it’s not just a matter of reducing their electrical > bill it’s about keeping the lights on and the fridge working. > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Ray Walters > via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:43 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Ray Walters > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue > > > > Talk to Thomas Honey. He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and knowledgeable > wrench. He has stepped in on my issue. > > Ray > > On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Good Evening, > > > > I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs > connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a > legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery > system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, > programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and > things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW > Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the > procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in > the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. > > > > Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the > charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty > much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the > communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They > say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, > especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked > to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have > changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage > multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the > first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup > and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase > in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). > > > > This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we > turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is > connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. > Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle > the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the > morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will > change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. > > > > Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a > settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone > over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. > Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the > lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. > > > > Thanks, > > Howie > > > *Howie Michaelson **Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ **[image: Image removed by sender.]* > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service **802-272-0004* > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Nov 17 17:36:17 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:36:17 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches, Howie As SOC climbs the rate of current will reduce current flow, what was the SOC when you had both connected and configured master slave with in the batteries Fun times On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:59 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good Evening, > > I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs > connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a > legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery > system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, > programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and > things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW > Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the > procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in > the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. > > Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the > charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty > much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the > communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They > say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, > especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked > to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have > changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage > multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the > first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup > and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase > in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). > > This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we > turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is > connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. > Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle > the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the > morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will > change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. > > Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a > settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone > over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. > Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the > lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. > > Thanks, > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From integrityenergy101 at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 09:28:50 2022 From: integrityenergy101 at gmail.com (Amos Post) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 09:28:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howie, Just to add, I have noticed this type of behavior with a Solark system with AGM batteries. It was very clear that the Solark was limiting the charge to the batteries (about 35-40AmpsDC) when the generator was running, but not clear as to why. This happened after a recent firmware update (maybe 2 months ago) on a Solark 12K Outdoor. The Solark tech looks things over, Enabled the “Activate Battery” setting (I do not know what this does), and he may have changed something else but I don’t think so. Anyways after that it started charging at a higher rate again and I believe has been good since. We also have had some ongoing trouble with the Generator turning on and turning off when it’s supposed to…and wishing their was more customization with the Gen settings, as I know others have mentioned before. Best, Amos Amos Post Integrity Energy W 802.763.7023 C 802.291.2188 ienergyVT.com Facebook > On Nov 17, 2022, at 5:36 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Wrenches, Howie > As SOC climbs the rate of current will reduce current flow, what was the SOC when you had both connected and configured master slave with in the batteries > Fun times > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:59 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches > wrote: > Good Evening, > > I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. > > Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). > > This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. > > Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. > > Thanks, > Howie > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > > Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service > 802-272-0004 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IE LOGO 150x78.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7516 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Fri Nov 18 10:14:52 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 10:14:52 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <1cc944b4-23ed-5496-741c-5d940416906a@entech-engineering.com> Thanks everyone, the person I started with a SolArk asked me to call them, so I've left a message.  I'll let everyone know what the determination is.  Bradley raises a good point about shutting down the back up loads panel. We would like to have an outdoor accessible disconnect switch between the back up loads panel and the inverter so that can happen more easily for first responders.  I have to go back and understand a few more things and will let you know.  Thanks again. Chris On 11/16/2022 10:14 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote: > The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the APsmart > transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC output of > the Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have used this > successfully I suppose that means that either these transmitters don't > really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark can > actually handle more than that, or some combination of both. If I > owned a Sol-Ark I'd test this to see what the answer is, but alas I do > not. I design systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply (Online > Components has a Mean-Well device for a reasonable price, sorry no > link from here) and a fairly rare IMO shutdown button (we have that) > that has both NO and NC contacts. This is needed because to shut down > the Sol-Ark inverter requires a NO contact that closes on initiation > which is quite rare in RSD initiators. And you do still need to shut > down the inverter as well as the RSD devices so that it does not > continue to feed voltage back into the PV circuits (I think). This > also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which tends to make the > inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the inverter, that limits > the battery to its own circuits, does this count as a battery > disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors calling out for battery > disconnects which is much more problematic. > > Brad Bassett > AEE Solar > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Wrenches, Christopher > I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in > the inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the > output side it would do much the same work until it did not then > shut off the modules. > Fun times > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The > inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS > is the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. > > I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output > terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the > attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the > transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they > supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main > service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I > told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that > would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of > utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the > back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I > got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for > RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual > that says not to do that. > > At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know > how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any > guidance, Chris Warfel > > > > > > -- >                             Christopher Warfel >      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >     401-466-8978 > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't > work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Fri Nov 18 10:47:02 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 15:47:02 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: <1cc944b4-23ed-5496-741c-5d940416906a@entech-engineering.com> References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> <1cc944b4-23ed-5496-741c-5d940416906a@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: Chris, For emergency shutoff switch i just used a lock pushbotton switch in a clear front lockable box with an led to indicate status. We did use an external power supply because we were using Tigo optimizers, CCA and TAP. Best regards, Lloyd Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 10:14:52 AM To: Bradley Bassett ; RE-wrenches Cc: Christopher Warfel Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility Thanks everyone, the person I started with a SolArk asked me to call them, so I've left a message. I'll let everyone know what the determination is. Bradley raises a good point about shutting down the back up loads panel. We would like to have an outdoor accessible disconnect switch between the back up loads panel and the inverter so that can happen more easily for first responders. I have to go back and understand a few more things and will let you know. Thanks again. Chris On 11/16/2022 10:14 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote: The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the APsmart transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have used this successfully I suppose that means that either these transmitters don't really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark can actually handle more than that, or some combination of both. If I owned a Sol-Ark I'd test this to see what the answer is, but alas I do not. I design systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply (Online Components has a Mean-Well device for a reasonable price, sorry no link from here) and a fairly rare IMO shutdown button (we have that) that has both NO and NC contacts. This is needed because to shut down the Sol-Ark inverter requires a NO contact that closes on initiation which is quite rare in RSD initiators. And you do still need to shut down the inverter as well as the RSD devices so that it does not continue to feed voltage back into the PV circuits (I think). This also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which tends to make the inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the inverter, that limits the battery to its own circuits, does this count as a battery disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors calling out for battery disconnects which is much more problematic. Brad Bassett AEE Solar On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wrenches, Christopher I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in the inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the output side it would do much the same work until it did not then shut off the modules. Fun times On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS. I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that. At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 [cid:part1.kvlyaN1Z.GZgWHIop at entech-engineering.com] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 [cid:part1.kvlyaN1Z.GZgWHIop at entech-engineering.com] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: EEIlogolong.jpg URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Fri Nov 18 11:12:13 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 11:12:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> <1cc944b4-23ed-5496-741c-5d940416906a@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: Hi Lloyd, Did you tie into the 12VDC of the SolArk with the lock pushbutton switch? On 11/18/2022 10:47 AM, Lloyd Hoffstatter wrote: > Chris, > For emergency shutoff switch i just used a lock pushbotton switch in a > clear front lockable box with an led to indicate status. We did use an > external power supply because we were using Tigo optimizers, CCA and TAP. > Best regards, > Lloyd > > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* RE-wrenches on > behalf of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > > *Sent:* Friday, November 18, 2022 10:14:52 AM > *To:* Bradley Bassett ; RE-wrenches > > *Cc:* Christopher Warfel > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility > > Thanks everyone, the person I started with a SolArk asked me to call > them, so I've left a message.  I'll let everyone know what the > determination is.  Bradley raises a good point about shutting down the > back up loads panel. We would like to have an outdoor accessible > disconnect switch between the back up loads panel and the inverter so > that can happen more easily for first responders.  I have to go back > and understand a few more things and will let you know. Thanks again. > Chris > > On 11/16/2022 10:14 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote: >> The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the >> APsmart transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC >> output of the Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have >> used this successfully I suppose that means that either these >> transmitters don't really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of >> the Sol-Ark can actually handle more than that, or some combination >> of both. If I owned a Sol-Ark I'd test this to see what the answer >> is, but alas I do not. I design systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power >> supply (Online Components has a Mean-Well device for a reasonable >> price, sorry no link from here) and a fairly rare IMO shutdown button >> (we have that) that has both NO and NC contacts. This is needed >> because to shut down the Sol-Ark inverter requires a NO contact that >> closes on initiation which is quite rare in RSD initiators. And you >> do still need to shut down the inverter as well as the RSD devices so >> that it does not continue to feed voltage back into the PV circuits >> (I think). This also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which >> tends to make the inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the >> inverter, that limits the battery to its own circuits, does this >> count as a battery disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors >> calling out for battery disconnects which is much more problematic. >> >> Brad Bassett >> AEE Solar >> >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches >> > > wrote: >> >> Wrenches, Christopher >> I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in >> the inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the >> output side it would do much the same work until it did not then >> shut off the modules. >> Fun times >> >> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via >> RE-wrenches > > wrote: >> >> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The >> inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS >> is the TS4F.  Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. >> >> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output >> terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the >> attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the >> transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they >> supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main >> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. >> I told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as >> that would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of >> utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the >> back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, >> I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals >> for RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk >> manual that says not to do that. >> >> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know >> how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for >> any guidance, Chris Warfel >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Christopher Warfel >>          ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >>             401-466-8978 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >> work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > -- >             Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >                                     401-466-8978 > > > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Fri Nov 18 11:11:38 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2022 11:11:38 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> <1cc944b4-23ed-5496-741c-5d940416906a@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <00be01d8fb68$7164c670$542e5350$@mindspring.com> Morning folks We have been using RSD with Sol-Arks for a few years now. Tigo and AP Smart. We use a breaker in the CL panel and wire it to a small disconnect next to the AC disconnect and wire it back to the Tigo or AP smart power supply / transmitter. Works well, no confusion though a bit more $$ for wire and the small 30 amp disconnect. Thx Peter Giroux ASAE From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Lloyd Hoffstatter via RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 10:47 AM To: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com; RE-wrenches ; Bradley Bassett Cc: Lloyd Hoffstatter Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility Chris, For emergency shutoff switch i just used a lock pushbotton switch in a clear front lockable box with an led to indicate status. We did use an external power supply because we were using Tigo optimizers, CCA and TAP. Best regards, Lloyd Get Outlook for iOS _____ From: RE-wrenches > on behalf of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2022 10:14:52 AM To: Bradley Bassett >; RE-wrenches > Cc: Christopher Warfel > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility Thanks everyone, the person I started with a SolArk asked me to call them, so I've left a message. I'll let everyone know what the determination is. Bradley raises a good point about shutting down the back up loads panel. We would like to have an outdoor accessible disconnect switch between the back up loads panel and the inverter so that can happen more easily for first responders. I have to go back and understand a few more things and will let you know. Thanks again. Chris On 11/16/2022 10:14 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote: The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the APsmart transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have used this successfully I suppose that means that either these transmitters don't really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark can actually handle more than that, or some combination of both. If I owned a Sol-Ark I'd test this to see what the answer is, but alas I do not. I design systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply (Online Components has a Mean-Well device for a reasonable price, sorry no link from here) and a fairly rare IMO shutdown button (we have that) that has both NO and NC contacts. This is needed because to shut down the Sol-Ark inverter requires a NO contact that closes on initiation which is quite rare in RSD initiators. And you do still need to shut down the inverter as well as the RSD devices so that it does not continue to feed voltage back into the PV circuits (I think). This also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which tends to make the inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the inverter, that limits the battery to its own circuits, does this count as a battery disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors calling out for battery disconnects which is much more problematic. Brad Bassett AEE Solar On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wrenches, Christopher I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in the inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the output side it would do much the same work until it did not then shut off the modules. Fun times On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles. I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for connecting the transmitter. I gave them the attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply. They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS. I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that. At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solman at legacysolar.com Sat Nov 19 07:31:45 2022 From: solman at legacysolar.com (Kristopher Schmid) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 06:31:45 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums Message-ID: Greetings all, I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping someone can shed some light on for me. One was a 48 volt pack of 12 volt Battle Bornes and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs. What happens is when reaching the end of the bulk charging stage, the battery voltage spikes and sends the inverter into an overvoltage error. Can anyone explain what is happening and a solution? Thanks, Kris Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 137 West 1st Avenue Luck, WI 54853 www.legacysolar.com 715-653-4295 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician BSEE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 08:05:21 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 06:05:21 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kris, When the BMS suddenly blocks charge, the voltage will spike up if the charger can't respond quickly enough. You may try to decrease charge voltage slightly. This same affect can cook an alternator in a vehicle as well. Higher end BMS systems can shunt current to mediate this. Good luck! On Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 5:32 AM Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Greetings all, > > I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping someone can > shed some light on for me. One was a 48 volt pack of 12 volt Battle Bornes > and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs. What happens is when reaching > the end of the bulk charging stage, the battery voltage spikes and sends > the inverter into an overvoltage error. Can anyone explain what is > happening and a solution? > > Thanks, > Kris > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 08:15:03 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 06:15:03 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Sat Nov 19 09:14:11 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 08:14:11 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kris What voltage do you have your charge settings at? I recommend that bulk or absorb voltage for lithium iron phosphate not be set above 56 V - there is no reason for it even though many manufactures suggest higher settings. In cases where total storage is sized generously enough I often use 55.6 or even 55.4 in order to target 95% as full instead of 100% in order to extend cycle life. and for float there’s no reason to ever go over 54 V and better maybe even to be in the mid-53s. See if that helps assuming you had it higher. The other thought is you have one bms that is perhaps not protecting overcharge and allowing a temporary spike when the others do limit. Hope that helps! Best Jeff C. Village Power Design Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 19, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Greetings all, > > I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping someone can shed some light on for me. One was a 48 volt pack of 12 volt Battle Bornes and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs. What happens is when reaching the end of the bulk charging stage, the battery voltage spikes and sends the inverter into an overvoltage error. Can anyone explain what is happening and a solution? > > Thanks, > Kris > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Sat Nov 19 12:05:31 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:05:31 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7476a7c6-76da-d627-b7cd-0ebac443c30b@solarray.com> To add to Jeff's suggestion of targeting 95%, many Li+ batteries have a spike in voltage as they reach 100%.  We just don't have to worry anymore about sulfate damage from under charging. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 11/19/2022 7:14 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi Kris > > What voltage do you have your charge settings at? > > I recommend that bulk or absorb voltage for lithium iron phosphate not > be set above 56 V  - there is no reason for it even though many > manufactures suggest higher settings.      In cases where total > storage is sized generously enough I  often use 55.6 or even 55.4 in > order to target 95% as full instead of 100% in order to extend cycle > life.   and for float there’s no reason to ever go over 54 V and > better maybe even to be in the mid-53s. > > See if that helps assuming you had it higher. > > The other thought is you have one bms that is perhaps not protecting > overcharge  and allowing a temporary spike when the others do limit. > > Hope that helps! > > Best Jeff C. > Village Power Design > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 19, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> Greetings all, >> >> I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping >> someone can shed some light on for me.  One was a 48 volt pack of 12 >> volt Battle Bornes and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs.  What >> happens is when reaching the end of the bulk charging stage, the >> battery voltage spikes and sends the inverter into an overvoltage >> error.  Can anyone explain what is happening and a solution? >> >> Thanks, >> Kris >> >> Shine On! >> >> Kris Schmid >> Legacy Solar, LLC >> 137 West 1st Avenue >> Luck, WI 54853 >> www.legacysolar.com >> 715-653-4295 >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician >> BSEE >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sat Nov 19 13:08:34 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:08:34 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another issue is what charge controller are you using? I know for me with Outback products I’ve had to switch from an FM 80 to the OB - FM 100 in order to have a more accurate high-voltage cut out voltage. The FM 100 has a much more accurate micro processor in it then the FM 60 or 80 per Brad Bassett with AEE. Dana Orzel C: 208.721.7003 E- dana at solarwork.com > On Nov 19, 2022, at 7:15 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Kris > > What voltage do you have your charge settings at? > > I recommend that bulk or absorb voltage for lithium iron phosphate not be set above 56 V - there is no reason for it even though many manufactures suggest higher settings. In cases where total storage is sized generously enough I often use 55.6 or even 55.4 in order to target 95% as full instead of 100% in order to extend cycle life. and for float there’s no reason to ever go over 54 V and better maybe even to be in the mid-53s. > > See if that helps assuming you had it higher. > > The other thought is you have one bms that is perhaps not protecting overcharge and allowing a temporary spike when the others do limit. > > Hope that helps! > > Best Jeff C. > Village Power Design > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Nov 19, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches wrote: >>> >>  >> Greetings all, >> >> I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping someone can shed some light on for me. One was a 48 volt pack of 12 volt Battle Bornes and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs. What happens is when reaching the end of the bulk charging stage, the battery voltage spikes and sends the inverter into an overvoltage error. Can anyone explain what is happening and a solution? >> >> Thanks, >> Kris >> >> Shine On! >> >> Kris Schmid >> Legacy Solar, LLC >> 137 West 1st Avenue >> Luck, WI 54853 >> www.legacysolar.com >> 715-653-4295 >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician >> BSEE >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 13:28:23 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 10:28:23 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On some LFP batteries the cell balancing only happens at full charge, so you do need to get to full every so often. Discover AES is one that needs this. Brad On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Another issue is what charge controller are you using? I know for me with > Outback products I’ve had to switch from an FM 80 to the OB - FM 100 in > order to have a more accurate high-voltage cut out voltage. > The FM 100 has a much more accurate micro processor in it then the FM 60 > or 80 per Brad Bassett with AEE. > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Nov 19, 2022, at 7:15 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hi Kris > > What voltage do you have your charge settings at? > > I recommend that bulk or absorb voltage for lithium iron phosphate not be > set above 56 V - there is no reason for it even though many manufactures > suggest higher settings. In cases where total storage is sized > generously enough I often use 55.6 or even 55.4 in order to target 95% as > full instead of 100% in order to extend cycle life. and for float there’s > no reason to ever go over 54 V and better maybe even to be in the mid-53s. > > See if that helps assuming you had it higher. > > The other thought is you have one bms that is perhaps not protecting > overcharge and allowing a temporary spike when the others do limit. > > Hope that helps! > > Best Jeff C. > Village Power Design > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 19, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Greetings all, > > I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping someone can > shed some light on for me. One was a 48 volt pack of 12 volt Battle Bornes > and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs. What happens is when reaching > the end of the bulk charging stage, the battery voltage spikes and sends > the inverter into an overvoltage error. Can anyone explain what is > happening and a solution? > > Thanks, > Kris > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 13:40:48 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 13:40:48 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great timely topic. I Have a new installation with 3 eFlex and radian system. Setting were per Outback and Fortress and we had a series of mid day hi voltage shut downs when our November sun returned. Luckily it has Optics and the unattended house is now happy with lowered top voltages. Ray, nice comment that we don't have any reason to charge full now. John Blittersdorf On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 1:10 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Another issue is what charge controller are you using? I know for me with Outback products I’ve had to switch from an FM 80 to the OB - FM 100 in order to have a more accurate high-voltage cut out voltage. > The FM 100 has a much more accurate micro processor in it then the FM 60 or 80 per Brad Bassett with AEE. > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Nov 19, 2022, at 7:15 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi Kris > > What voltage do you have your charge settings at? > > I recommend that bulk or absorb voltage for lithium iron phosphate not be set above 56 V - there is no reason for it even though many manufactures suggest higher settings. In cases where total storage is sized generously enough I often use 55.6 or even 55.4 in order to target 95% as full instead of 100% in order to extend cycle life. and for float there’s no reason to ever go over 54 V and better maybe even to be in the mid-53s. > > See if that helps assuming you had it higher. > > The other thought is you have one bms that is perhaps not protecting overcharge and allowing a temporary spike when the others do limit. > > Hope that helps! > > Best Jeff C. > Village Power Design > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 19, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > Greetings all, > > I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping someone can shed some light on for me. One was a 48 volt pack of 12 volt Battle Bornes and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs. What happens is when reaching the end of the bulk charging stage, the battery voltage spikes and sends the inverter into an overvoltage error. Can anyone explain what is happening and a solution? > > Thanks, > Kris > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From offgridsolar at sti.net Sat Nov 19 14:00:36 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:00:36 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage lithiums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Another reason as Bradley suggests to avoid all of these problems and only install a closed loop battery power system. Zero problems since Discover came out with the AES in 2018 or so. A 25% gain in charge time that genset users will love by closing the loop. Lot's more also! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-11-19 10:28 am, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: > On some LFP batteries the cell balancing only happens at full charge, > so you do need to get to full every so often. Discover AES is one that > needs this. > > Brad > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: > Another issue is what charge controller are you using? I know for me > with Outback products I've had to switch from an FM 80 to the OB - FM > 100 in order to have a more accurate high-voltage cut out voltage. > The FM 100 has a much more accurate micro processor in it then the FM > 60 or 80 per Brad Bassett with AEE. > > Dana Orzel > C: 208.721.7003 > E- dana at solarwork.com > > On Nov 19, 2022, at 7:15 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hi Kris > > What voltage do you have your charge settings at? > > I recommend that bulk or absorb voltage for lithium iron phosphate not > be set above 56 V - there is no reason for it even though many > manufactures suggest higher settings. In cases where total storage > is sized generously enough I often use 55.6 or even 55.4 in order to > target 95% as full instead of 100% in order to extend cycle life. and > for float there's no reason to ever go over 54 V and better maybe even > to be in the mid-53s. > > See if that helps assuming you had it higher. > > The other thought is you have one bms that is perhaps not protecting > overcharge and allowing a temporary spike when the others do limit. > > Hope that helps! > > Best Jeff C. > Village Power Design > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 19, 2022, at 6:32 AM, Kristopher Schmid via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Greetings all, > > I have seen an issue on two different systems that I am hoping someone > can shed some light on for me. One was a 48 volt pack of 12 volt > Battle Bornes and the other was a 24 volt pack of SOKs. What happens > is when reaching the end of the bulk charging stage, the battery > voltage spikes and sends the inverter into an overvoltage error. Can > anyone explain what is happening and a solution? > > Thanks, > Kris > > Shine On! > > Kris Schmid > Legacy Solar, LLC > 137 West 1st Avenue > Luck, WI 54853 > www.legacysolar.com [1] > 715-653-4295 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician > BSEE _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.legacysolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Nov 19 14:40:38 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:40:38 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need two wire submersible cable and water pump miscellany Message-ID: <7b9ab9de22da0139903aa34343f82825@mail.gmail.com> Friends: Thanks to all of you that offered suggestions. I found what I needed for this project: Nassau National Cable offered a two wire, 14 AWG CU tray cable. Attached is the data sheet if anyone is interested. The vendor can be found at: *www.nassaunationalcable.com *. They were very responsive. The cable mated quite nicely with the small gauge leads on the low water sensor and even with a very tough jacket was small enough to fit alongside the pump power cables in the conduit at the well-head. By the way, this installation used a Picocell 2000 pump controller which converts DC to single or three phase at 120 or 230 VAC. It is good up to 1 HP or a bit more. It is a nice product. I recommend an outboard DC switch and an adjacent J-box to hold service loops since the wiring compartment is quite small. The controller is set up with gland fittings to facilitate jacketed cables but we switched those out for NMLT. I have always preferred to protect wiring. As another aside, our local well technicians could not source a low water sensor for us. Thunderbird solar has them. Locally, the well technicians like using the Franklin pump-saver to protect a pump from dry running. I don’t prefer the pump-saver because they are fickle, expensive and require some duration of dry run before they shut down. We prefer a down-hole sensor. With the lowering of water tables here in the arid west, it is important to be able to protect well pumps from dry running and to provide for intermittent pumping to allow maximum production on slow-recharge wells. All of our wells will have low water sensors from now on. William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 14 AWG THHN Tray Cable TC-ER (2).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 80671 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Sat Nov 19 16:06:29 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 16:06:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need two wire submersible cable and water pump miscellany Message-ID: We recently installed a SunRotor pump and controller in a livestock and ag watering application. Pretty easy install and seems to be working well.The factory openings and glands didn't mate up well with the conduit and wire runs I used, but the aluminum cast case was moderately easy to modify.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: William Miller via RE-wrenchesDate: Sat, Nov 19, 2022 2:55 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: William Miller;Subject:[RE-wrenches] Need two wire submersible cable and water pump miscellanyFriends: Thanks to all of you that offered suggestions.  I found what I needed for this project:  Nassau National Cable offered a two wire, 14 AWG CU tray cable.  Attached is the data sheet if anyone is interested.   The vendor can be found at:  www.nassaunationalcable.com.  They were very responsive. The cable mated quite nicely with the small gauge leads on the low water sensor and even with a very tough jacket was small enough to fit alongside the pump power cables in the conduit at the well-head. By the way, this installation used a Picocell 2000 pump controller which converts DC to single or three phase at 120 or 230 VAC.  It is good up to 1 HP or a bit more.  It is a nice product.  I recommend an outboard DC switch and an adjacent J-box to hold service loops since the wiring compartment is quite small.  The controller is set up with gland fittings to facilitate jacketed cables but we switched those out for NMLT.  I have always preferred to protect wiring.  As another aside, our local well technicians could not source a low water sensor for us. Thunderbird solar has them.  Locally, the well technicians like using the Franklin pump-saver to protect a pump from dry running.  I don’t prefer the pump-saver because they are fickle, expensive and require some duration of dry run before they shut down.  We prefer a down-hole sensor.  With the lowering of water tables here in the arid west, it is important to be able to protect well pumps from dry running and to provide for intermittent pumping to allow maximum production on slow-recharge wells.  All of our wells will have low water sensors from now on. William Miller Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985   -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart at besolar.bm Tue Nov 22 07:17:29 2022 From: stuart at besolar.bm (Stuart Kriendler) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 08:17:29 -0400 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SunFix (SolarWorld's old rail system) clamps or potable lubricant/penetrant needed Message-ID: Good day Wrenches, Does anyone have any old SunFix hardware, specifically top clamps, or know of any installers/vendors who used to use/sell them? SunFix was a European product sold in the USA as a bundle with SolarWorld modules, they become corroded and get compromised when removing them for roof maintenance. Alternatively has anyone used a potable water grade penetrant/lubricant to use on them to free them up? Feel free to reply here or contact me off-list, many thanks. stuart at besolar.bm 441 599 2105 Sunniest & healthiest regards, Stuart -- *Stuart Kriendler | Managing Director * 48 St. Johns Road, Pembroke, HM 07, Bermuda C: 1.441.599.2105 <(441)%20599-2105> | O: 1.441.279.5907 <(441)%20279-5907> | www.BEsolar.bm [image: BE Solar.bm] *OUR VISION: An efficient Bermuda powered by affordable renewable energy. * *OUR MISSION: To provide the highest quality energy solutions accessible to all. * The information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly private and confidential and is intended solely for the i ndividual(s) or entity named above in the To and Copy fields. If you received this transmission in error, please delete it from your computer system and notify us immediately. If you are not an intended recipient, please be advised that any use, including viewing, printing, disseminating, distributing, copying and re-transmitting of the information contained in this transmission including any and all attached files is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screen Shot 2017-12-20 at 11.46.59 AM.png Type: image/png Size: 30112 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danny at sesre.com Tue Nov 22 13:33:46 2022 From: danny at sesre.com (Daniel Young) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 18:33:46 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just replace the array. Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with Sunpower? Don't want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) With Regards, -- Danny Young NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Tue Nov 22 13:49:44 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:49:44 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> I agree that the time to process warranty the module to a manufacturer's desires is cost-prohibitive. Of all the component's we use, this warranty almost seems the least valuable for this very reason. We stopped one case for this very reason as I didn't want to do a PhD dissertation for a single module. Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that bypass diodes were not an warranty defect even though the module was making half power. Good luck, look forward to hearing how your case goes. Scot Arey Solar CenTex From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Daniel Young via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 12:34 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Daniel Young Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Hello Wrenches, Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just replace the array. Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with Sunpower? Don't want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) With Regards, -- Danny Young NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Tue Nov 22 14:06:52 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 12:06:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> References: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: *> Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that bypass diodes were not an warranty defect * *> even though the module was making half power.* Forgive me if I'm daft but someone please tell me WHAT IS a module defect if a failed diode ISN'T?!? Unacceptable. Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Tue Nov 22 17:17:11 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:17:11 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> References: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: This is why I have an article on my website to explain to prospective clients why module warranties are mostly useless. The cost to evaluate most potential problems is prohibitive. Now if you have a major manufacturer failure and every module is obviously bad, that could be grounds for a warranty claim, but for a single module or two, or a minor deficiency in production - it just will never be worth it. And later in the life of a system, even a major issue might not be worth investigating. I can count the successful module warranty claims I have done in my career on a single hand. Modules warranties are mostly marketing nonsense, unfortunately, IMO. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I agree that the time to process warranty the module to a manufacturer’s > desires is cost-prohibitive. Of all the component’s we use, this warranty > almost seems the least valuable for this very reason. We stopped one case > for this very reason as I didn’t want to do a PhD dissertation for a single > module. > > > > Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that bypass > diodes were not an warranty defect even though the module was making half > power. > > > > Good luck, look forward to hearing how your case goes. > > > > Scot Arey > > Solar CenTex > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Daniel Young via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2022 12:34 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Daniel Young > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim > > > > Hello Wrenches, > > > > Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with > SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they > are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their > satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just > replace the array. > > > > Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with > Sunpower? > > > > Don’t want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V > traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than > anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as > well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the > array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% > lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) > > > > With Regards, > > > > -- > > > > Danny Young > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 > > Engineering Team Lead > Solar Energy Solutions > > Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | > Indianapolis > > 513-448-5176 (mobile) > > 877-312-7456 (Main Office) > > danny at sesre.com > > > _________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Tue Nov 22 18:48:13 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 23:48:13 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: References: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: I’m not sure that a PhD dissertation is required for a successful performance warranty claim. For most claims, the manufacturer needs to verify just a few things; 1. Is it one of their modules? (verified with a serial number) 2. Is the module broken? (verified by an image of the module) 3. Is the module shaded? (verified by an image of the array, indicating where the claimed module is), 4. Is the module not performing to spec? (verified with a Voc and Isc check, or module level info from the MLPE). A lot can be learned from the MLPE on a solar module. Many manufacturers will accept individual module voltage and current readings form the monitoring platform for warranty claims (free). Couple that with and image of the module to determine if it is broken, and a view of the array to understand if the module is not shaded and that can potentially be an inexpensive warranty claim. Where things go sideways is when a customer wants a module replaced because they see it is performing at less than the rest of the modules in the array, and does not want to investigate any further. Do just a minor amount of logical remote troubleshooting (individual modules voltage and current, compared to the spec sheet and neighboring modules) and you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules. Module manufacturers are very interested in warranty claims as they use the failure analyses to feed back into their product improvement program. So I’m not sure it is wise to lump all manufacturers in with one bad actor. But – as always – the best warranty out there is one that you don’t have to use. IMHO. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8FE87.1B8F5D10] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 2:17 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim This is why I have an article on my website to explain to prospective clients why module warranties are mostly useless. The cost to evaluate most potential problems is prohibitive. Now if you have a major manufacturer failure and every module is obviously bad, that could be grounds for a warranty claim, but for a single module or two, or a minor deficiency in production - it just will never be worth it. And later in the life of a system, even a major issue might not be worth investigating. I can count the successful module warranty claims I have done in my career on a single hand. Modules warranties are mostly marketing nonsense, unfortunately, IMO. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: I agree that the time to process warranty the module to a manufacturer’s desires is cost-prohibitive. Of all the component’s we use, this warranty almost seems the least valuable for this very reason. We stopped one case for this very reason as I didn’t want to do a PhD dissertation for a single module. Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that bypass diodes were not an warranty defect even though the module was making half power. Good luck, look forward to hearing how your case goes. Scot Arey Solar CenTex From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Daniel Young via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 12:34 PM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Daniel Young > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Hello Wrenches, Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just replace the array. Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with Sunpower? Don’t want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) With Regards, -- Danny Young NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com _________________________ ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From frenergy at psln.com Wed Nov 23 00:21:18 2022 From: frenergy at psln.com (frenergy) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 21:21:18 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: References: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: I have to agree its still a pretty major undertaking to go through the entire warranty claim.  If you haven't actually had to go through the entire process from truck roll(s) to waving the failed PVs good-bye on the loading dock, shipped at your expense, it may not seem so daunting and expensive.  But it is, many times complicated by not being supplied with matching (electrically and physically) PVs.  I am baffled by the statement:"/you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules/", maybe that's an assumption that there are no string inverters without MLPE's in the field anymore.             We'll be filing your contact info in the event we ever have to do a warranty claim with REC.  I too hope that day doesn't come, again. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St.(shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell CA Lic 874049 Solar powered since 1982 On 11/22/2022 3:48 PM, George McClellan via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I’m not sure that a PhD dissertation is required for a successful > performance warranty claim.  For most claims, the manufacturer needs > to verify just a few things;  1. Is it one of their modules? (verified > with a serial number) 2. Is the module broken?  (verified by an image > of the module)  3. Is the module shaded? (verified by an image of the > array, indicating where the claimed module is),  4.  Is the module not > performing to spec?  (verified with a Voc and Isc check, or module > level info from the MLPE). > > A lot can be learned from the MLPE on a solar module.  Many > manufacturers will accept individual module voltage and current > readings form the monitoring platform for warranty claims (free).  > Couple that with and image of the module to determine if it is broken, > and a view of the array to understand if the module is not shaded and > that can potentially be an inexpensive warranty claim.  Where things > go sideways is when a customer wants a module replaced because they > see it is performing at less than the rest of the modules in the > array, and does not want to investigate any further.  Do just a minor > amount of logical remote troubleshooting (individual modules voltage > and current, compared to the spec sheet and neighboring modules) and > you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a > minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules. > > Module manufacturers are very interested in warranty claims as they > use the failure analyses to feed back into their product improvement > program.  So I’m not sure it is wise to lump all manufacturers in with > one bad actor. > > But – as always – the best warranty out there is one that you don’t > have to use. > > IMHO. > > George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC > > 330 James Way Ste 150| Pismo Beach, CA 93449| USA > > Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 > > www.recgroup.com | > george.mcclellan at recgroup.com > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2022 2:17 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim > > This is why I have an article on my website to explain to prospective > clients why module warranties are mostly useless. > > The cost to evaluate most potential problems is prohibitive.  Now if > you have a major manufacturer failure and every module is obviously > bad, that could be grounds for a warranty claim, but for a single > module or two, or a minor deficiency in production - it just will > never be worth it. And later in the life of a system, even a major > issue might not be worth investigating. I can count the successful > module warranty claims I have done in my career on a single hand. > > Modules warranties are mostly marketing nonsense, unfortunately, IMO. > > > Jason Szumlanski > > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > > > On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > I agree that the time to process warranty the module to a > manufacturer’s desires is cost-prohibitive. Of all the component’s > we use, this warranty almost seems the least valuable for this > very reason. We stopped one case for this very reason as I didn’t > want to do a PhD dissertation for a single module. > > Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that > bypass diodes were not an warranty defect even though the module > was making half power. > > Good luck, look forward to hearing how your case goes. > > Scot Arey > > Solar CenTex > > *From:* RE-wrenches > *On Behalf Of *Daniel Young via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2022 12:34 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Daniel Young > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim > > Hello Wrenches, > > Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty > claim with SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to > Provide what they are asking for, we will likely spend more > time/money testing to their satisfaction than it would cost for us > to likely buy new modules and just replace the array. > > Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal > with Sunpower? > > Don’t want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to > say we I-V traced the array at the string level as a sanity check > (7-10 % lower than anticipated performance), and a random > selection of individual modules as well and we are seeing roughly > 8% lower performance than expected given the array age and listed > performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% lower than it > should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) > > With Regards, > > -- > > Danny Young > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 > > Engineering Team Lead > Solar Energy Solutions > > Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | > Indianapolis > > 513-448-5176 (mobile) > > 877-312-7456 (Main Office) > > danny at sesre.com > > _________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any > unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this > message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, > please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any > unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this > message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, > please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -- -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: not available URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Wed Nov 23 09:13:15 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 14:13:15 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: References: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Good Morning - “I am baffled by the statement: "you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules", maybe that's an assumption that there are no string inverters without MLPE's in the field anymore.” Not baffling at all. I’m just referring to recent residential installations where MLPE is reaching 90% (or more) implementation. And please keep my contact info handy if you ever need to file a claim. Happy to help out if you ever have a problem with a REC module. Have a great Thanksgiving. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8FF02.AA0C7430] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of frenergy via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 9:21 PM To: George McClellan via RE-wrenches Cc: frenergy Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim I have to agree its still a pretty major undertaking to go through the entire warranty claim. If you haven't actually had to go through the entire process from truck roll(s) to waving the failed PVs good-bye on the loading dock, shipped at your expense, it may not seem so daunting and expensive. But it is, many times complicated by not being supplied with matching (electrically and physically) PVs. I am baffled by the statement:"you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules", maybe that's an assumption that there are no string inverters without MLPE's in the field anymore. We'll be filing your contact info in the event we ever have to do a warranty claim with REC. I too hope that day doesn't come, again. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St.(shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell CA Lic 874049 Solar powered since 1982 On 11/22/2022 3:48 PM, George McClellan via RE-wrenches wrote: I’m not sure that a PhD dissertation is required for a successful performance warranty claim. For most claims, the manufacturer needs to verify just a few things; 1. Is it one of their modules? (verified with a serial number) 2. Is the module broken? (verified by an image of the module) 3. Is the module shaded? (verified by an image of the array, indicating where the claimed module is), 4. Is the module not performing to spec? (verified with a Voc and Isc check, or module level info from the MLPE). A lot can be learned from the MLPE on a solar module. Many manufacturers will accept individual module voltage and current readings form the monitoring platform for warranty claims (free). Couple that with and image of the module to determine if it is broken, and a view of the array to understand if the module is not shaded and that can potentially be an inexpensive warranty claim. Where things go sideways is when a customer wants a module replaced because they see it is performing at less than the rest of the modules in the array, and does not want to investigate any further. Do just a minor amount of logical remote troubleshooting (individual modules voltage and current, compared to the spec sheet and neighboring modules) and you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules. Module manufacturers are very interested in warranty claims as they use the failure analyses to feed back into their product improvement program. So I’m not sure it is wise to lump all manufacturers in with one bad actor. But – as always – the best warranty out there is one that you don’t have to use. IMHO. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8FF02.AA0C7430] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 2:17 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim This is why I have an article on my website to explain to prospective clients why module warranties are mostly useless. The cost to evaluate most potential problems is prohibitive. Now if you have a major manufacturer failure and every module is obviously bad, that could be grounds for a warranty claim, but for a single module or two, or a minor deficiency in production - it just will never be worth it. And later in the life of a system, even a major issue might not be worth investigating. I can count the successful module warranty claims I have done in my career on a single hand. Modules warranties are mostly marketing nonsense, unfortunately, IMO. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: I agree that the time to process warranty the module to a manufacturer’s desires is cost-prohibitive. Of all the component’s we use, this warranty almost seems the least valuable for this very reason. We stopped one case for this very reason as I didn’t want to do a PhD dissertation for a single module. Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that bypass diodes were not an warranty defect even though the module was making half power. Good luck, look forward to hearing how your case goes. Scot Arey Solar CenTex From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Daniel Young via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 12:34 PM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Daniel Young > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Hello Wrenches, Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just replace the array. Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with Sunpower? Don’t want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) With Regards, -- Danny Young NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com _________________________ ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free.www.avast.com ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From august at luminalt.com Wed Nov 23 09:35:45 2022 From: august at luminalt.com (August Goers) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 06:35:45 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Danny - We’ve been a SunPower dealer for close to 15 years and for the most part their modules have been solid. Thank goodness. However, we have a site installed in 2010 that is exhibiting “fern crack cell” and encapsulate browning. This is the first I’ve seen of this, so it is something I’m watching carefully. The modules are no longer within the original 10-yr product warranty range, but are still within the 25-yr power warranty range. In addition the SunnyBoy inverter is shot. So, our first step is to get them a running inverter which is tricky because the system requires positive grounding. On a side note, anyone find good inverter replacement options when positive grounding is required? It seems like either we find an old transformer based inverter or perhaps try one of the PID boxes on the market? I’m hesitant to try the PID box until we get official approval from SunPower. Once we accomplish getting them a running inverter, we’ll see how the system is running and do some basic production vs irradiance tests. SunPower indicated that Maxeon may replace the modules after we go through the IV curve testing and/or infrared camera hot spot testing procedure. It is interesting that now that SunPower and Maxeon are separate companies, that the warranty holder is actually Maxeon but is facilitated through SunPower. Anyway, I don’t have any special tips dealing with SunPower getting back to your question. What model modules are you dealing with on your warranty claim and when were they installed, roughly? Best, August Luminalt On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 10:34 AM Daniel Young via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > > > Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with > SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they > are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their > satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just > replace the array. > > > > Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with > Sunpower? > > > > Don’t want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V > traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than > anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as > well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the > array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% > lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) > > > > With Regards, > > > > -- > > > > Danny Young > > NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 > > Engineering Team Lead > Solar Energy Solutions > > Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | > Indianapolis > > 513-448-5176 (mobile) > > 877-312-7456 (Main Office) > > danny at sesre.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- August Goers Luminalt o: 415.792.6666 m: 415.559.1525 august at luminalt.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danny at sesre.com Wed Nov 23 09:44:04 2022 From: danny at sesre.com (Daniel Young) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 14:44:04 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: References: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Just as some background, this is the checklist we are being asked to fill out for each Sunpower module we wish to RMA based on performance warranty: To be fair, I believe some of these can be re used when RMAing multiple modules from a given installation. [Text Description automatically generated] -- Danny Young Engineering Team Lead NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of George McClellan via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 9:13 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: George McClellan Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Good Morning - “I am baffled by the statement: "you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules", maybe that's an assumption that there are no string inverters without MLPE's in the field anymore.” Not baffling at all. I’m just referring to recent residential installations where MLPE is reaching 90% (or more) implementation. And please keep my contact info handy if you ever need to file a claim. Happy to help out if you ever have a problem with a REC module. Have a great Thanksgiving. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8FF1F.A0BF72C0] From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of frenergy via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 9:21 PM To: George McClellan via RE-wrenches > Cc: frenergy > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim I have to agree its still a pretty major undertaking to go through the entire warranty claim. If you haven't actually had to go through the entire process from truck roll(s) to waving the failed PVs good-bye on the loading dock, shipped at your expense, it may not seem so daunting and expensive. But it is, many times complicated by not being supplied with matching (electrically and physically) PVs. I am baffled by the statement:"you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules", maybe that's an assumption that there are no string inverters without MLPE's in the field anymore. We'll be filing your contact info in the event we ever have to do a warranty claim with REC. I too hope that day doesn't come, again. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St.(shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell CA Lic 874049 Solar powered since 1982 On 11/22/2022 3:48 PM, George McClellan via RE-wrenches wrote: I’m not sure that a PhD dissertation is required for a successful performance warranty claim. For most claims, the manufacturer needs to verify just a few things; 1. Is it one of their modules? (verified with a serial number) 2. Is the module broken? (verified by an image of the module) 3. Is the module shaded? (verified by an image of the array, indicating where the claimed module is), 4. Is the module not performing to spec? (verified with a Voc and Isc check, or module level info from the MLPE). A lot can be learned from the MLPE on a solar module. Many manufacturers will accept individual module voltage and current readings form the monitoring platform for warranty claims (free). Couple that with and image of the module to determine if it is broken, and a view of the array to understand if the module is not shaded and that can potentially be an inexpensive warranty claim. Where things go sideways is when a customer wants a module replaced because they see it is performing at less than the rest of the modules in the array, and does not want to investigate any further. Do just a minor amount of logical remote troubleshooting (individual modules voltage and current, compared to the spec sheet and neighboring modules) and you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules. Module manufacturers are very interested in warranty claims as they use the failure analyses to feed back into their product improvement program. So I’m not sure it is wise to lump all manufacturers in with one bad actor. But – as always – the best warranty out there is one that you don’t have to use. IMHO. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image001.jpg at 01D8FF1F.A0BF72C0] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 2:17 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim This is why I have an article on my website to explain to prospective clients why module warranties are mostly useless. The cost to evaluate most potential problems is prohibitive. Now if you have a major manufacturer failure and every module is obviously bad, that could be grounds for a warranty claim, but for a single module or two, or a minor deficiency in production - it just will never be worth it. And later in the life of a system, even a major issue might not be worth investigating. I can count the successful module warranty claims I have done in my career on a single hand. Modules warranties are mostly marketing nonsense, unfortunately, IMO. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: I agree that the time to process warranty the module to a manufacturer’s desires is cost-prohibitive. Of all the component’s we use, this warranty almost seems the least valuable for this very reason. We stopped one case for this very reason as I didn’t want to do a PhD dissertation for a single module. Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that bypass diodes were not an warranty defect even though the module was making half power. Good luck, look forward to hearing how your case goes. Scot Arey Solar CenTex From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Daniel Young via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 12:34 PM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Daniel Young > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Hello Wrenches, Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just replace the array. Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with Sunpower? Don’t want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) With Regards, -- Danny Young NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com _________________________ ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free.www.avast.com ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 41390 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Wed Nov 23 11:39:18 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 11:39:18 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <2d121a01-aa58-cbaa-9ac3-496ac8f2df82@entech-engineering.com> <1cc944b4-23ed-5496-741c-5d940416906a@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <9ff2ff59-651a-42bb-fcb3-5b13a715f1ee@entech-engineering.com> Hi List, Tigo was hard to pin down on this issue and they told me to contact Sol-Ark. I did, and they called back and said the method I proposed was their recommended method.  So, I will reattach the drawing.  The one thing this does not do, is shut down the Critical Loads panel.  To do that would take three disconnects I think. One for the AC utility interconnection, one for the Tigo transmitter, and one for pin 11/12.  Thank you to everyone.  Have a peaceful Thanksgiving.  Chris --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tigo Transmitter Powering.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 25665 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cwarfel.vcf Type: text/vcard Size: 203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From George.McClellan at recgroup.com Wed Nov 23 11:46:55 2022 From: George.McClellan at recgroup.com (George McClellan) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2022 16:46:55 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim In-Reply-To: References: <011b01d8fea3$31b3f030$951bd090$@solarcentex.com> Message-ID: Yikes. That is a bunch. At REC we try to make it a bit easier. Granted – this is mostly for Resi and C&I; [cid:image003.png at 01D8FF18.2105B5F0] George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image004.jpg at 01D8FF18.2105B5F0] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Daniel Young via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 6:44 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Daniel Young Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Just as some background, this is the checklist we are being asked to fill out for each Sunpower module we wish to RMA based on performance warranty: To be fair, I believe some of these can be re used when RMAing multiple modules from a given installation. [Text Description automatically generated] -- Danny Young Engineering Team Lead NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of George McClellan via RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 9:13 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: George McClellan > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Good Morning - “I am baffled by the statement: "you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules", maybe that's an assumption that there are no string inverters without MLPE's in the field anymore.” Not baffling at all. I’m just referring to recent residential installations where MLPE is reaching 90% (or more) implementation. And please keep my contact info handy if you ever need to file a claim. Happy to help out if you ever have a problem with a REC module. Have a great Thanksgiving. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image004.jpg at 01D8FF18.2105B5F0] From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of frenergy via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 9:21 PM To: George McClellan via RE-wrenches > Cc: frenergy > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim I have to agree its still a pretty major undertaking to go through the entire warranty claim. If you haven't actually had to go through the entire process from truck roll(s) to waving the failed PVs good-bye on the loading dock, shipped at your expense, it may not seem so daunting and expensive. But it is, many times complicated by not being supplied with matching (electrically and physically) PVs. I am baffled by the statement:"you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules", maybe that's an assumption that there are no string inverters without MLPE's in the field anymore. We'll be filing your contact info in the event we ever have to do a warranty claim with REC. I too hope that day doesn't come, again. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St.(shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell CA Lic 874049 Solar powered since 1982 On 11/22/2022 3:48 PM, George McClellan via RE-wrenches wrote: I’m not sure that a PhD dissertation is required for a successful performance warranty claim. For most claims, the manufacturer needs to verify just a few things; 1. Is it one of their modules? (verified with a serial number) 2. Is the module broken? (verified by an image of the module) 3. Is the module shaded? (verified by an image of the array, indicating where the claimed module is), 4. Is the module not performing to spec? (verified with a Voc and Isc check, or module level info from the MLPE). A lot can be learned from the MLPE on a solar module. Many manufacturers will accept individual module voltage and current readings form the monitoring platform for warranty claims (free). Couple that with and image of the module to determine if it is broken, and a view of the array to understand if the module is not shaded and that can potentially be an inexpensive warranty claim. Where things go sideways is when a customer wants a module replaced because they see it is performing at less than the rest of the modules in the array, and does not want to investigate any further. Do just a minor amount of logical remote troubleshooting (individual modules voltage and current, compared to the spec sheet and neighboring modules) and you can often get a claim accepted without a site visit, or at a minimum a drive by to check the status of the modules. Module manufacturers are very interested in warranty claims as they use the failure analyses to feed back into their product improvement program. So I’m not sure it is wise to lump all manufacturers in with one bad actor. But – as always – the best warranty out there is one that you don’t have to use. IMHO. George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com [cid:image004.jpg at 01D8FF18.2105B5F0] From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 2:17 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jason Szumlanski Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim This is why I have an article on my website to explain to prospective clients why module warranties are mostly useless. The cost to evaluate most potential problems is prohibitive. Now if you have a major manufacturer failure and every module is obviously bad, that could be grounds for a warranty claim, but for a single module or two, or a minor deficiency in production - it just will never be worth it. And later in the life of a system, even a major issue might not be worth investigating. I can count the successful module warranty claims I have done in my career on a single hand. Modules warranties are mostly marketing nonsense, unfortunately, IMO. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches > wrote: I agree that the time to process warranty the module to a manufacturer’s desires is cost-prohibitive. Of all the component’s we use, this warranty almost seems the least valuable for this very reason. We stopped one case for this very reason as I didn’t want to do a PhD dissertation for a single module. Was surprised by one manufacturer who advised us to read that bypass diodes were not an warranty defect even though the module was making half power. Good luck, look forward to hearing how your case goes. Scot Arey Solar CenTex From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Daniel Young via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 12:34 PM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Daniel Young > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower Performance Warranty Claim Hello Wrenches, Any experience successfully submitting a performance warranty claim with SunPower on their solar modules? Right now, in order to Provide what they are asking for, we will likely spend more time/money testing to their satisfaction than it would cost for us to likely buy new modules and just replace the array. Anybody have a similar experience? Or suggestions on how to deal with Sunpower? Don’t want to bog this down with all the details but suffice to say we I-V traced the array at the string level as a sanity check (7-10 % lower than anticipated performance), and a random selection of individual modules as well and we are seeing roughly 8% lower performance than expected given the array age and listed performance warranty. (STC corrected I-V trace is 8% lower than it should be for an 8 year old solar module from SunPower) With Regards, -- Danny Young NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) danny at sesre.com _________________________ ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- [https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free.www.avast.com ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. ________________________________ This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 368153 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 90690 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.png Type: image/png Size: 256661 bytes Desc: image005.png URL: From jscwrenches at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 13:08:37 2022 From: jscwrenches at gmail.com (Tommy Jacoby) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 12:08:37 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA SB8000US-12 Message-ID: Hello Group I am looking for a replacement SB8000US-12. One unit. Please contact me if you have one you’d like to sell. Best, Tommy Jacoby From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Thu Dec 1 09:32:33 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 09:32:33 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? Message-ID: <1afe83d7-6b37-b157-05ce-94d86c3a0f73@villagepowerdesign.com> Hey Esteemed Wrenchies, Does anyone know if manufacturer's are using any common standard for AC Coupling frequency shift algorithms? Is it part of any UL standard?  Seems like since it's a battery charge control issue it needs some rigor?  Are manufacturer's just copying each other?  Did SMA's Sunny Island/Sunny Boy set that standard? Curious! Best Jeff C. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater linkedin www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VPDLogoMaster2.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com Thu Dec 1 10:55:58 2022 From: Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 15:55:58 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: <1afe83d7-6b37-b157-05ce-94d86c3a0f73@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <1afe83d7-6b37-b157-05ce-94d86c3a0f73@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: Jeff - THAT is a bunch of loaded questions! My thoughts.. Let's start at the end. NO, SMA did not create any "standard". Sunny Islands have been utilizing FSPC (now commonly called Frequency Watt control) for more than 15 years, and someone decided that the window of frequency to control Sunny Boy PV output would be 61-62Hz for 60Hz nominal SIs. Others on the list may have personal knowledge of the actual decision making process (Sam?); that is before my time at SMA. The SI FSPC was only used in off-grid or micro-grid mode (no utility grid present) when the SI was free to set AC grid frequency where it wanted. If the SI & SB were set up in grid-tied battery backup mode (where the Sunny Boy normally operated in grid-tied mode with no FSPC operational, 60.5 Hz seen as "bad grid (0 W output)" according to "old" UL 1741 testing), the SI would dynamically, via communications signal, change the SB into offgrid mode with "Freq-Watt" enabled, operating from 61Hz (no curtailment of output) to 62Hz (0 W output from SB). SB was kept in off-grid mode as long as SI was forming microgrid, and when the grid came back, the SB would be put back into grid-tied mode when the SI closed the connection to the grid 5 min later. This required two sets of operating parameters in the Sunny Boy and a method to switch between the two as Freq-Watt was not required for any grid interactive inverters in US until around 2017. Ensuring a normally grid tied inverter can recognize an external signal to switch to microgrid mode with new operating parameters is challenging, especially if AC coupling equipment from different manufacturers. But now some utilities want Freq-Watt operation in grid-interactive inverters, so it is conceptually possible to set Freq-Watt on the grid-interactive inverters, and have this function work BOTH in grid-tied and microgrid mode without needing any signal/mode/parameter change if the grid is lost. I believe pre-SA versions of UL 1741 had testing for grid-interactive inverters to support Freq-Watt (and this would be when grid-tied) but this function was not enabled. UL 1741 SA definitely tested inverters to ensure they supported this function. Buuuutttttt, it depends on which Source Requirement Document (SRD) the UTILITY (HECO, CA ISOs like PG&E, SCE and SDG&E, and those in ISO NE territory) decides to implement whether or not the Freq-Watt function is enabled when connecting to their grid AND what setpoints determine the operation (e.g. what freq the ramp starts at and how fast power goes down with increased frequency). So, there is not currently any "standard" for implementing this for grid-interactive inverters. Has anyone on this list activated Freq-Watt on an inverter where the utility does not require it (with the utility's blessing of course)? Even with all the noise around the impending requirement of UL 1741 SB, I don't think utilities will require Freq-Watt be enabled until PV penetration is noticeable. And then they still can choose their own setpoints. I think it will remain the discretion of manufacturers how their equipment operates in microgrid mode, but without a standard set of parameters for Freq-Watt operation required for grid-tied operation I don't see any "common standard" for microgrid Freq-Watt settings. Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:33 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jeff Clearwater Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? Hey Esteemed Wrenchies, Does anyone know if manufacturer's are using any common standard for AC Coupling frequency shift algorithms? Is it part of any UL standard? Seems like since it's a battery charge control issue it needs some rigor? Are manufacturer's just copying each other? Did SMA's Sunny Island/Sunny Boy set that standard? Curious! Best Jeff C. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater [cid:image001.jpg at 01D9055B.F230FD80] linkedin www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Thu Dec 1 12:21:39 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 12:21:39 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupling multiple OB Radian inverters Message-ID: When AC coupling using 2 or more OB radian inverters, it is only the master inverter(at least that's where ac-coupling status shows as "yes") which can be set to, and perform "ac-coupling", correct? The Mate3s option to enable AC-coupling does not specify individual ports(inverters) to select and enable. The other inverter(s) will pass their share of the GTI PV through to the grid regardless. I ask because I was talking to OB tech support today on another issue for a 2 Radian AC-coupled system. They told me that all Radians needed to be set to AC-coupling, but there is no option to do it in the Mate3s. When I mentioned that, he said the Mate had to be unplugged from the hub and into the slave inverter directly to do it. But I don't think that's correct. And besides, if the ac-coupling setting only enables a frequency shift, that's all we need to knock the GTI offline. -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Thu Dec 1 12:37:01 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 12:37:01 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <70045478-BA28-41F2-9AE0-DD19E4B868AB@villagepowerdesign.com> Wow. Now THAT was an education. So appreciate you Harry for taking the time to answer so thoroughly! It’ll take me a few to digest and come back with any follow ups. And so appreciate SMA for paving the way! Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Harry Mahon wrote: > >  > Jeff – THAT is a bunch of loaded questions! My thoughts.. > > Let’s start at the end. NO, SMA did not create any “standard”. Sunny Islands have been utilizing FSPC (now commonly called Frequency Watt control) for more than 15 years, and someone decided that the window of frequency to control Sunny Boy PV output would be 61-62Hz for 60Hz nominal SIs. Others on the list may have personal knowledge of the actual decision making process (Sam?); that is before my time at SMA. > > The SI FSPC was only used in off-grid or micro-grid mode (no utility grid present) when the SI was free to set AC grid frequency where it wanted. If the SI & SB were set up in grid-tied battery backup mode (where the Sunny Boy normally operated in grid-tied mode with no FSPC operational, 60.5 Hz seen as “bad grid (0 W output)” according to “old” UL 1741 testing), the SI would dynamically, via communications signal, change the SB into offgrid mode with “Freq-Watt” enabled, operating from 61Hz (no curtailment of output) to 62Hz (0 W output from SB). SB was kept in off-grid mode as long as SI was forming microgrid, and when the grid came back, the SB would be put back into grid-tied mode when the SI closed the connection to the grid 5 min later. > > This required two sets of operating parameters in the Sunny Boy and a method to switch between the two as Freq-Watt was not required for any grid interactive inverters in US until around 2017. Ensuring a normally grid tied inverter can recognize an external signal to switch to microgrid mode with new operating parameters is challenging, especially if AC coupling equipment from different manufacturers. > > But now some utilities want Freq-Watt operation in grid-interactive inverters, so it is conceptually possible to set Freq-Watt on the grid-interactive inverters, and have this function work BOTH in grid-tied and microgrid mode without needing any signal/mode/parameter change if the grid is lost. > > I believe pre-SA versions of UL 1741 had testing for grid-interactive inverters to support Freq-Watt (and this would be when grid-tied) but this function was not enabled. UL 1741 SA definitely tested inverters to ensure they supported this function. > > Buuuutttttt, it depends on which Source Requirement Document (SRD) the UTILITY (HECO, CA ISOs like PG&E, SCE and SDG&E, and those in ISO NE territory) decides to implement whether or not the Freq-Watt function is enabled when connecting to their grid AND what setpoints determine the operation (e.g. what freq the ramp starts at and how fast power goes down with increased frequency). > > So, there is not currently any “standard” for implementing this for grid-interactive inverters. Has anyone on this list activated Freq-Watt on an inverter where the utility does not require it (with the utility’s blessing of course)? > > Even with all the noise around the impending requirement of UL 1741 SB, I don’t think utilities will require Freq-Watt be enabled until PV penetration is noticeable. And then they still can choose their own setpoints. > > I think it will remain the discretion of manufacturers how their equipment operates in microgrid mode, but without a standard set of parameters for Freq-Watt operation required for grid-tied operation I don’t see any “common standard” for microgrid Freq-Watt settings. > > Michael Mahon > Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy > SMA America > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:33 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jeff Clearwater > Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? > > Hey Esteemed Wrenchies, > > Does anyone know if manufacturer's are using any common standard for AC Coupling frequency shift algorithms? > > Is it part of any UL standard? Seems like since it's a battery charge control issue it needs some rigor? Are manufacturer's just copying each other? Did SMA's Sunny Island/Sunny Boy set that standard? > > Curious! > > Best > > Jeff C. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > > > linkedin > www.villagepowerdesign.com > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com Thu Dec 1 18:21:44 2022 From: jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com (Jeremy Coxon) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 18:21:44 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems Message-ID: <01FC33B6-B37C-46AF-9509-85943704330A@sunwindpowerinc.com> HI Wrenches, A couple of weeks ago this thread came up - main topic was lack of tech support from Fortress. A few days later I was contacted by Marc Zeitlin, Fortress’s Regional sales manager Midwest. We haven’t used Fortress yet, but I basically reiterated the concerns that were expressed on this thread and said that I’d be interested once they had their Tech support issues ironed out. To my surprise Marc really took that feedback and ran with it all the way up to offering me and those of you that are interested a call with their CEO and anyone else we would like to talk to. I offered to send this note to the list and invite you all to join the call. I would think we’d want to keep the numbers manageable, but we can figure that out. I don’t have a horse in the race and have no association with Fortress, but I thought it might be a really good opportunity for those of you that have more experience with Fortress to get a direct line with their CEO and main tech folks so that we can hopefully improve things for all. Marc has proposed Thursday January 5th at 10am. Let me know directly at jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com if you’re interested and I’ll pass your name along so they can get this set up. Best Regards, Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21 MWBE Certified -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2022 Logo Blue Tagline 2x no phone - small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23571 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 18:29:12 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 15:29:12 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <01FC33B6-B37C-46AF-9509-85943704330A@sunwindpowerinc.com> References: <01FC33B6-B37C-46AF-9509-85943704330A@sunwindpowerinc.com> Message-ID: This is great to hear even as l have used fortress with no tech support issues but rather than a phone conversation a zoom might be better as you can hear and see from the horses mouth. Add in all the notes of all of the questions and get an answer back one time not a dozen. Just a thought Jerry On Thu, Dec 1, 2022, 3:22 PM Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI Wrenches, > > A couple of weeks ago this thread came up - main topic was lack of tech > support from Fortress. A few days later I was contacted by Marc Zeitlin, > Fortress’s > Regional sales manager Midwest. We haven’t used Fortress yet, but I > basically reiterated the concerns that were expressed on this thread and > said that I’d be interested once they had their Tech support issues ironed > out. To my surprise Marc really took that feedback and ran with it all the > way up to offering me and those of you that are interested a call with > their CEO and anyone else we would like to talk to. I offered to send this > note to the list and invite you all to join the call. I would think we’d > want to keep the numbers manageable, but we can figure that out. > > I don’t have a horse in the race and have no association with Fortress, > but I thought it might be a really good opportunity for those of you that > have more experience with Fortress to get a direct line with their CEO and > main tech folks so that we can hopefully improve things for all. Marc has > proposed Thursday January 5th at 10am. Let me know directly at > jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com if you’re interested and I’ll pass your name > along so they can get this set up. > > Best Regards, > Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21 > MWBE Certified > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2022 Logo Blue Tagline 2x no phone - small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23571 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2022 Logo Blue Tagline 2x no phone - small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23571 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mdelectricsolar at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 19:07:27 2022 From: mdelectricsolar at gmail.com (MD Electric & Solar) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 16:07:27 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: <70045478-BA28-41F2-9AE0-DD19E4B868AB@villagepowerdesign.com> References: <70045478-BA28-41F2-9AE0-DD19E4B868AB@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: And this is why we LOVE the RE-wrenches list. This is a question that all of us have had. Always good questions and answers! Thanks All! On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 9:39 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wow. Now THAT was an education. So appreciate you Harry for taking the > time to answer so thoroughly! It’ll take me a few to digest and come back > with any follow ups. And so appreciate SMA for paving the way! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Harry Mahon > wrote: > >  > > Jeff – THAT is a bunch of loaded questions! My thoughts.. > > > > Let’s start at the end. NO, SMA did not create any “standard”. Sunny > Islands have been utilizing FSPC (now commonly called Frequency Watt > control) for more than 15 years, and someone decided that the window of > frequency to control Sunny Boy PV output would be 61-62Hz for 60Hz nominal > SIs. Others on the list may have personal knowledge of the actual decision > making process (Sam?); that is before my time at SMA. > > > > The SI FSPC was only used in off-grid or micro-grid mode (no utility grid > present) when the SI was free to set AC grid frequency where it wanted. If > the SI & SB were set up in grid-tied battery backup mode (where the Sunny > Boy normally operated in grid-tied mode with no FSPC operational, 60.5 Hz > seen as “bad grid (0 W output)” according to “old” UL 1741 testing), the SI > would dynamically, via communications signal, change the SB into offgrid > mode with “Freq-Watt” enabled, operating from 61Hz (no curtailment of > output) to 62Hz (0 W output from SB). SB was kept in off-grid mode as long > as SI was forming microgrid, and when the grid came back, the SB would be > put back into grid-tied mode when the SI closed the connection to the grid > 5 min later. > > > > This required two sets of operating parameters in the Sunny Boy and a > method to switch between the two as Freq-Watt was not required for any grid > interactive inverters in US until around 2017. Ensuring a normally grid > tied inverter can recognize an external signal to switch to microgrid mode > with new operating parameters is challenging, especially if AC coupling > equipment from different manufacturers. > > > > But now some utilities want Freq-Watt operation in grid-interactive > inverters, so it is conceptually possible to set Freq-Watt on the > grid-interactive inverters, and have this function work BOTH in grid-tied > and microgrid mode without needing any signal/mode/parameter change if the > grid is lost. > > > > I believe pre-SA versions of UL 1741 had testing for grid-interactive > inverters to support Freq-Watt (and this would be when grid-tied) but this > function was not enabled. UL 1741 SA definitely tested inverters to ensure > they supported this function. > > > > Buuuutttttt, it depends on which Source Requirement Document (SRD) the > UTILITY (HECO, CA ISOs like PG&E, SCE and SDG&E, and those in ISO NE > territory) decides to implement whether or not the Freq-Watt function is > enabled when connecting to their grid AND what setpoints determine the > operation (e.g. what freq the ramp starts at and how fast power goes down > with increased frequency). > > > > So, there is not currently any “standard” for implementing this for > grid-interactive inverters. Has anyone on this list activated Freq-Watt on > an inverter where the utility does not require it (with the utility’s > blessing of course)? > > > > Even with all the noise around the impending requirement of UL 1741 SB, I > don’t think utilities will require Freq-Watt be enabled until PV > penetration is noticeable. And then they still can choose their own > setpoints. > > > > I think it will remain the discretion of manufacturers how their equipment > operates in microgrid mode, but without a standard set of parameters for > Freq-Watt operation required for grid-tied operation I don’t see any > “common standard” for microgrid Freq-Watt settings. > > > Michael Mahon > Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy > *SMA America* > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:33 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jeff Clearwater > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? > > > > Hey Esteemed Wrenchies, > > Does anyone know if manufacturer's are using any common standard for AC > Coupling frequency shift algorithms? > > Is it part of any UL standard? Seems like since it's a battery charge > control issue it needs some rigor? Are manufacturer's just copying each > other? Did SMA's Sunny Island/Sunny Boy set that standard? > > Curious! > > Best > > Jeff C. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Jeff Clearwater > > [image: image001.jpg] > linkedin > > www.villagepowerdesign.com > > cell - 413-559-9763 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar Inc. Office: 707-412-3181 Cell: 707-684-0064 www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Thu Dec 1 19:21:07 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 16:21:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: References: <70045478-BA28-41F2-9AE0-DD19E4B868AB@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: This raises a new question. Can the newer grid forming and grid following inverters be configured to have a tighter Freq/Watt response? We've run into a situation where some electronic loads behave erratically when the frequency goes to 62 Hz. Eric Smiley Project Manager, North Island E: eric at vecoop.ca T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) C: 250-703-6004 W: viridianenergy.ca On Thu., Dec. 1, 2022, 16:07 MD Electric & Solar via RE-wrenches, < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > And this is why we LOVE the RE-wrenches list. This is a question that all > of us have had. Always good questions and answers! Thanks All! > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 9:39 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wow. Now THAT was an education. So appreciate you Harry for taking the >> time to answer so thoroughly! It’ll take me a few to digest and come back >> with any follow ups. And so appreciate SMA for paving the way! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Harry Mahon >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> Jeff – THAT is a bunch of loaded questions! My thoughts.. >> >> >> >> Let’s start at the end. NO, SMA did not create any “standard”. Sunny >> Islands have been utilizing FSPC (now commonly called Frequency Watt >> control) for more than 15 years, and someone decided that the window of >> frequency to control Sunny Boy PV output would be 61-62Hz for 60Hz nominal >> SIs. Others on the list may have personal knowledge of the actual decision >> making process (Sam?); that is before my time at SMA. >> >> >> >> The SI FSPC was only used in off-grid or micro-grid mode (no utility grid >> present) when the SI was free to set AC grid frequency where it wanted. If >> the SI & SB were set up in grid-tied battery backup mode (where the Sunny >> Boy normally operated in grid-tied mode with no FSPC operational, 60.5 Hz >> seen as “bad grid (0 W output)” according to “old” UL 1741 testing), the SI >> would dynamically, via communications signal, change the SB into offgrid >> mode with “Freq-Watt” enabled, operating from 61Hz (no curtailment of >> output) to 62Hz (0 W output from SB). SB was kept in off-grid mode as long >> as SI was forming microgrid, and when the grid came back, the SB would be >> put back into grid-tied mode when the SI closed the connection to the grid >> 5 min later. >> >> >> >> This required two sets of operating parameters in the Sunny Boy and a >> method to switch between the two as Freq-Watt was not required for any grid >> interactive inverters in US until around 2017. Ensuring a normally grid >> tied inverter can recognize an external signal to switch to microgrid mode >> with new operating parameters is challenging, especially if AC coupling >> equipment from different manufacturers. >> >> >> >> But now some utilities want Freq-Watt operation in grid-interactive >> inverters, so it is conceptually possible to set Freq-Watt on the >> grid-interactive inverters, and have this function work BOTH in grid-tied >> and microgrid mode without needing any signal/mode/parameter change if the >> grid is lost. >> >> >> >> I believe pre-SA versions of UL 1741 had testing for grid-interactive >> inverters to support Freq-Watt (and this would be when grid-tied) but this >> function was not enabled. UL 1741 SA definitely tested inverters to ensure >> they supported this function. >> >> >> >> Buuuutttttt, it depends on which Source Requirement Document (SRD) the >> UTILITY (HECO, CA ISOs like PG&E, SCE and SDG&E, and those in ISO NE >> territory) decides to implement whether or not the Freq-Watt function is >> enabled when connecting to their grid AND what setpoints determine the >> operation (e.g. what freq the ramp starts at and how fast power goes down >> with increased frequency). >> >> >> >> So, there is not currently any “standard” for implementing this for >> grid-interactive inverters. Has anyone on this list activated Freq-Watt on >> an inverter where the utility does not require it (with the utility’s >> blessing of course)? >> >> >> >> Even with all the noise around the impending requirement of UL 1741 SB, I >> don’t think utilities will require Freq-Watt be enabled until PV >> penetration is noticeable. And then they still can choose their own >> setpoints. >> >> >> >> I think it will remain the discretion of manufacturers how their >> equipment operates in microgrid mode, but without a standard set of >> parameters for Freq-Watt operation required for grid-tied operation I don’t >> see any “common standard” for microgrid Freq-Watt settings. >> >> >> Michael Mahon >> Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy >> *SMA America* >> >> >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:33 AM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Cc:* Jeff Clearwater >> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? >> >> >> >> Hey Esteemed Wrenchies, >> >> Does anyone know if manufacturer's are using any common standard for AC >> Coupling frequency shift algorithms? >> >> Is it part of any UL standard? Seems like since it's a battery charge >> control issue it needs some rigor? Are manufacturer's just copying each >> other? Did SMA's Sunny Island/Sunny Boy set that standard? >> >> Curious! >> >> Best >> >> Jeff C. >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> Jeff Clearwater >> >> [image: image001.jpg] >> linkedin >> >> www.villagepowerdesign.com >> >> cell - 413-559-9763 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > Michael D Nelson > MD Electric & Solar Inc. > Office: 707-412-3181 > Cell: 707-684-0064 > www.mdelectricsolar.com > www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 19:39:11 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 19:39:11 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress support call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeremy, I would love to have an opportunity to talk with Fortress about their support process. I am just in the tail end of installing 2 Sol-Ark/Fortress off grid systems (one 15k with 2 eVaults and two 15ks with 5 eVaults). I've been very impressed with both pieces of equipment so far. However, I sent an email to Fortress expressing my distinct disappointment with the support I was getting. Particularly after they basically blew off my problems as being inverter issues, since they couldn't see how anything on their end could be causing the problems we were experiencing. I continued to make noise about my problems. Finally, it turned out there was some incompatibly between a firmware update Sol-Ark did recently and the eVault's communication protocol. After that was determined, I have been impressed with the support response I have been given by Fortress, consistently getting relatively quick return calls and follow up calls. They have dedicated lots of resources toward getting a new firmware rolled out in a very timely fashion and so far it has proven to be stable and functional. I will have more to say about this once we install the Fortress update on the larger system, as we are waiting to make sure it continues to work on the smaller system (we have only had this "beta" firmware on the system for 2 days now). I wish there were more online resources for programming and troubleshooting smaller issues. The wait time between contacting Fortress's support system and getting a live response is still problematic, especially for off grid systems, especially in more remote locations, since waiting for hours on site for a response to even simple issues is not sustainable. My sense is Fortress is working to improve the situation, but I'm the mean time... To be fair, I've found this to be pretty much common place with most manufacturers' support systems these days. I need to remember to build in more time on my installs, particularly when dealing with new (and/or new to me) equipment, as my learning curve speed is greatly improved when I can talk to a live, knowledgeable tech. Howie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com Thu Dec 1 19:47:18 2022 From: Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 00:47:18 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: References: <70045478-BA28-41F2-9AE0-DD19E4B868AB@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: Definitely it is possible for newer grid-interactive inverters. However, for grid-tied operation, the utility that runs the grid sets the rules (and sets the setpoints as it were), and it can be confusing.... Looking at PG&E’s Rule 21 tarriff (submitted Aug 12, 2022, effective Nov 4, 2022) Freq-Watt reuirements are: “When system frequency exceeds 60.036 Hz, the active power output produced by the Smart Inverter shall be reduced by 50% of real power nameplate rating per hertz (5% of real power nameplate rating reduction per 0.1 hertz)” Bottom of Sheet 207 of : https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_RULES_21.pdf So a 5kW inverter needs to ramp at 2.5kW/Hz. But if it is only producing 2.5kW, it has to be at 0W at 61.036Hz..... Mike This raises a new question. Can the newer grid forming and grid following inverters be configured to have a tighter Freq/Watt response? We've run into a situation where some electronic loads behave erratically when the frequency goes to 62 Hz. Eric Smiley Project Manager, North Island E: eric at vecoop.ca T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) C: 250-703-6004 W: viridianenergy.ca On Thu., Dec. 1, 2022, 16:07 MD Electric & Solar via RE-wrenches, > wrote: And this is why we LOVE the RE-wrenches list. This is a question that all of us have had. Always good questions and answers! Thanks All! On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 9:39 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wow. Now THAT was an education. So appreciate you Harry for taking the time to answer so thoroughly! It’ll take me a few to digest and come back with any follow ups. And so appreciate SMA for paving the way! Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Harry Mahon > wrote:  Jeff – THAT is a bunch of loaded questions! My thoughts.. Let’s start at the end. NO, SMA did not create any “standard”. Sunny Islands have been utilizing FSPC (now commonly called Frequency Watt control) for more than 15 years, and someone decided that the window of frequency to control Sunny Boy PV output would be 61-62Hz for 60Hz nominal SIs. Others on the list may have personal knowledge of the actual decision making process (Sam?); that is before my time at SMA. The SI FSPC was only used in off-grid or micro-grid mode (no utility grid present) when the SI was free to set AC grid frequency where it wanted. If the SI & SB were set up in grid-tied battery backup mode (where the Sunny Boy normally operated in grid-tied mode with no FSPC operational, 60.5 Hz seen as “bad grid (0 W output)” according to “old” UL 1741 testing), the SI would dynamically, via communications signal, change the SB into offgrid mode with “Freq-Watt” enabled, operating from 61Hz (no curtailment of output) to 62Hz (0 W output from SB). SB was kept in off-grid mode as long as SI was forming microgrid, and when the grid came back, the SB would be put back into grid-tied mode when the SI closed the connection to the grid 5 min later. This required two sets of operating parameters in the Sunny Boy and a method to switch between the two as Freq-Watt was not required for any grid interactive inverters in US until around 2017. Ensuring a normally grid tied inverter can recognize an external signal to switch to microgrid mode with new operating parameters is challenging, especially if AC coupling equipment from different manufacturers. But now some utilities want Freq-Watt operation in grid-interactive inverters, so it is conceptually possible to set Freq-Watt on the grid-interactive inverters, and have this function work BOTH in grid-tied and microgrid mode without needing any signal/mode/parameter change if the grid is lost. I believe pre-SA versions of UL 1741 had testing for grid-interactive inverters to support Freq-Watt (and this would be when grid-tied) but this function was not enabled. UL 1741 SA definitely tested inverters to ensure they supported this function. Buuuutttttt, it depends on which Source Requirement Document (SRD) the UTILITY (HECO, CA ISOs like PG&E, SCE and SDG&E, and those in ISO NE territory) decides to implement whether or not the Freq-Watt function is enabled when connecting to their grid AND what setpoints determine the operation (e.g. what freq the ramp starts at and how fast power goes down with increased frequency). So, there is not currently any “standard” for implementing this for grid-interactive inverters. Has anyone on this list activated Freq-Watt on an inverter where the utility does not require it (with the utility’s blessing of course)? Even with all the noise around the impending requirement of UL 1741 SB, I don’t think utilities will require Freq-Watt be enabled until PV penetration is noticeable. And then they still can choose their own setpoints. I think it will remain the discretion of manufacturers how their equipment operates in microgrid mode, but without a standard set of parameters for Freq-Watt operation required for grid-tied operation I don’t see any “common standard” for microgrid Freq-Watt settings. Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:33 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jeff Clearwater > Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? Hey Esteemed Wrenchies, Does anyone know if manufacturer's are using any common standard for AC Coupling frequency shift algorithms? Is it part of any UL standard? Seems like since it's a battery charge control issue it needs some rigor? Are manufacturer's just copying each other? Did SMA's Sunny Island/Sunny Boy set that standard? Curious! Best Jeff C. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater [image001.jpg] linkedin www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar Inc. Office: 707-412-3181 Cell: 707-684-0064 www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From windydankoff at mac.com Fri Dec 2 10:08:22 2022 From: windydankoff at mac.com (Windy Dankoff) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 08:08:22 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Mike, As co-author of upcoming book "The Handbook of Solar Water Pumping", we have expanded its definition to include micro and national grid-tied systems in which pumping is synchronized with power availability from PV. I had known about frequency-based load control for microgrids (from an SMA-based microgrid I toured in Israel). I had no idea it was a happening system on public grids until I read your response here. I love how it requires no communication lines or digital signals. It's a "natural" and logical concept from the old days of spinning generators under varying load. I see your PG&E reference, but is there also a reference text you can recommend that I can use in the book as a universal explanation of how this works? It can be SMA documentation, or other ref. You can reply here if it's useful to the list, and/or contact me off-line. Thanks! – Windy > On Dec 1, 2022, at 5:47 PM, re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: > > From: Harry Mahon > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? > Date: December 1, 2022 at 5:47:18 PM MST > To: RE-wrenches > > > > Definitely it is possible for newer grid-interactive inverters. However, for grid-tied operation, the utility that runs the grid sets the rules (and sets the setpoints as it were), and it can be confusing.... > > Looking at PG&E’s Rule 21 tarriff (submitted Aug 12, 2022, effective Nov 4, 2022) Freq-Watt reuirements are: > “When system frequency exceeds 60.036 Hz, the active power output produced by the Smart Inverter shall be reduced by 50% of real power nameplate rating per hertz (5% of real power nameplate rating reduction per 0.1 hertz)” > Bottom of Sheet 207 of : https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_RULES_21.pdf > > So a 5kW inverter needs to ramp at 2.5kW/Hz. But if it is only producing 2.5kW, it has to be at 0W at 61.036Hz..... > > Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Fri Dec 2 11:25:45 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 08:25:45 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Utilities have used and continue to use this method of control for their own generators, except they refer to it as Droop Control. In addition to Frequency/Watt response Voltage/VAR response is also used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droop_speed_control Building inverters that mimic the behaviour of spinning generators is a great development as some jurisdictions now require, for example, ride-through capability when brown-outs occur, rather than the older requirement for inverters to simply turn off when voltage or frequency dropped below certain limits, which just exacerbated brown-outs. Essentially an inverter can be programmed to have "inertia" just like a big spinning generator. Larger grid-interactive inverters have done this for a while, with very complex settings, but we are now seeing smaller residential and commercial inverters with similar capabilities. This industry keeps evolving and improving, which is great for keeping us on our toes and I find it very exciting. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 at 07:08, Windy Dankoff via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Dear Mike, > > As co-author of upcoming book "The Handbook of Solar Water Pumping", we > have expanded its definition to include micro and national grid-tied > systems in which pumping is synchronized with power availability from PV. I > had known about frequency-based load control for microgrids (from an > SMA-based microgrid I toured in Israel). I had no idea it was a happening > system on public grids until I read your response here. I love how it > requires no communication lines or digital signals. It's a "natural" and > logical concept from the old days of spinning generators under varying load. > > I see your PG&E reference, but is there also a reference text you can > recommend that I can use in the book as a universal explanation of how this > works? It can be SMA documentation, or other ref. You can reply here if > it's useful to the list, and/or contact me off-line. > > Thanks! – Windy > > On Dec 1, 2022, at 5:47 PM, re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org > wrote: > > *From: *Harry Mahon > *Subject: **Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard?* > *Date: *December 1, 2022 at 5:47:18 PM MST > *To: *RE-wrenches > > > Definitely it is possible for newer grid-interactive inverters. However, > for grid-tied operation, the utility that runs the grid sets the rules (and > sets the setpoints as it were), and it can be confusing.... > > Looking at PG&E’s Rule 21 tarriff (submitted Aug 12, 2022, effective Nov > 4, 2022) Freq-Watt reuirements are: > “When system frequency exceeds 60.036 Hz, the active power output produced > by the Smart Inverter shall be reduced by 50% of real power nameplate > rating per hertz (5% of real power nameplate rating reduction per 0.1 > hertz)” > Bottom of Sheet 207 of : > https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_RULES_21.pdf > > So a 5kW inverter needs to ramp at 2.5kW/Hz. But if it is only producing > 2.5kW, it has to be at 0W at 61.036Hz..... > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Fri Dec 2 15:39:00 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 12:39:00 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: <4AB3F059-0775-4342-8B56-9CF5CE891868@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <288a21e6480d7f372fb0af4556855e68@mail.gmail.com> Colleagues: I am gearing up to tap some more copper. I assume this is a pertinent subject since bus bars are going to be needed frequently for any storage work. I bought the fancy drill press with the tapping function and I am setting it up. I ran a few tests and the functionality of the tool is pretty amazing. I still need to work on programming it to reverse when needed. I am close. I also ordered a cross vise for part holding. I found this tutorial on line that has provided me with some valuable insight on different styles of taps. William Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2022 7:39 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Cc:* Michael Morningstar *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing No, I haven't. I'll do some testing tomorrow as we have 60 holes/taps to do in the above mentioned bussing On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:54 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: Michael, Are you using kerosene as a cutting fluid? We've had better luck with that in softer than steel metals. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 CA Lic 874049 On 9/11/2022 7:00 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house > fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now > we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars > in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with > slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover > AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer > sign off on our designs. > > I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper. > I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to > thru-bolting. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric PO Box 1494 Mount Shasta, CA 96067 530-921-0560 mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com Fri Dec 2 15:45:41 2022 From: Michael.Mahon at sma-america.com (Harry Mahon) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 20:45:41 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? In-Reply-To: References: <70045478-BA28-41F2-9AE0-DD19E4B868AB@villagepowerdesign.com> Message-ID: Wrenches - I have been informed that my response in prior email is not correct. Correction below --- Per PG&E Rule 21, the inverter is required to begin reducing its output if the line frequency is 60.036 Hz. At 60.136 Hz (0.1 Hz higher), power output must be reduced by 5% of the nameplate rated output. At 60.236 Hz (0.2 Hz higher), it must be down by 10%, and so forth. At 61.036 Hz (1.0 Hz higher), it must be down 50% from the nameplate rating. A 5.0 kW inverter that may happen to be generating only 2.5 kW already meets the 61.036 Hz (+ 1.0 Hz) requirement by being down 50% from its nameplate rating. If this reduction is due [say] to atmospherics, and the cause of the reduction (i.e. cloud cover) goes away, the inverter cannot increase its output above the power level allowed by Rule 21 for that frequency, even if more power is available from the PV. --- So it might be that such an inverter would still need to be pushed to slightly above 62Hz to be at close to zero output.... And another thing that was pointed out for clarification – I only included PG&Es Rule 21 requirements. SCE and SDG&E have their own versions of Rule 21 just to make everything as clear as possible. If you want to compare find links for these three utilities here (click on the “Rule 21 Tariff” links: https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/Rule21/ Best – Mike Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America 3925 Atherton Rd Rocklin, CA 95765 +1 916 918 9412 www.SMA-America.com Solar Academy website Upcoming SMA America Solar Academy webinars: English and Spanish [cid:image002.jpg at 01D90653.4D201260] This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Harry Mahon via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 5:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Harry Mahon Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? Definitely it is possible for newer grid-interactive inverters. However, for grid-tied operation, the utility that runs the grid sets the rules (and sets the setpoints as it were), and it can be confusing.... Looking at PG&E’s Rule 21 tarriff (submitted Aug 12, 2022, effective Nov 4, 2022) Freq-Watt reuirements are: “When system frequency exceeds 60.036 Hz, the active power output produced by the Smart Inverter shall be reduced by 50% of real power nameplate rating per hertz (5% of real power nameplate rating reduction per 0.1 hertz)” Bottom of Sheet 207 of : https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_RULES_21.pdf So a 5kW inverter needs to ramp at 2.5kW/Hz. But if it is only producing 2.5kW, it has to be at 0W at 61.036Hz..... Mike This raises a new question. Can the newer grid forming and grid following inverters be configured to have a tighter Freq/Watt response? We've run into a situation where some electronic loads behave erratically when the frequency goes to 62 Hz. Eric Smiley Project Manager, North Island E: eric at vecoop.ca T: 1-888-386-0116 ext 702 (toll free) C: 250-703-6004 W: viridianenergy.ca On Thu., Dec. 1, 2022, 16:07 MD Electric & Solar via RE-wrenches, > wrote: And this is why we LOVE the RE-wrenches list. This is a question that all of us have had. Always good questions and answers! Thanks All! On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 9:39 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wow. Now THAT was an education. So appreciate you Harry for taking the time to answer so thoroughly! It’ll take me a few to digest and come back with any follow ups. And so appreciate SMA for paving the way! Sent from my iPhone On Dec 1, 2022, at 10:56 AM, Harry Mahon > wrote:  Jeff – THAT is a bunch of loaded questions! My thoughts.. Let’s start at the end. NO, SMA did not create any “standard”. Sunny Islands have been utilizing FSPC (now commonly called Frequency Watt control) for more than 15 years, and someone decided that the window of frequency to control Sunny Boy PV output would be 61-62Hz for 60Hz nominal SIs. Others on the list may have personal knowledge of the actual decision making process (Sam?); that is before my time at SMA. The SI FSPC was only used in off-grid or micro-grid mode (no utility grid present) when the SI was free to set AC grid frequency where it wanted. If the SI & SB were set up in grid-tied battery backup mode (where the Sunny Boy normally operated in grid-tied mode with no FSPC operational, 60.5 Hz seen as “bad grid (0 W output)” according to “old” UL 1741 testing), the SI would dynamically, via communications signal, change the SB into offgrid mode with “Freq-Watt” enabled, operating from 61Hz (no curtailment of output) to 62Hz (0 W output from SB). SB was kept in off-grid mode as long as SI was forming microgrid, and when the grid came back, the SB would be put back into grid-tied mode when the SI closed the connection to the grid 5 min later. This required two sets of operating parameters in the Sunny Boy and a method to switch between the two as Freq-Watt was not required for any grid interactive inverters in US until around 2017. Ensuring a normally grid tied inverter can recognize an external signal to switch to microgrid mode with new operating parameters is challenging, especially if AC coupling equipment from different manufacturers. But now some utilities want Freq-Watt operation in grid-interactive inverters, so it is conceptually possible to set Freq-Watt on the grid-interactive inverters, and have this function work BOTH in grid-tied and microgrid mode without needing any signal/mode/parameter change if the grid is lost. I believe pre-SA versions of UL 1741 had testing for grid-interactive inverters to support Freq-Watt (and this would be when grid-tied) but this function was not enabled. UL 1741 SA definitely tested inverters to ensure they supported this function. Buuuutttttt, it depends on which Source Requirement Document (SRD) the UTILITY (HECO, CA ISOs like PG&E, SCE and SDG&E, and those in ISO NE territory) decides to implement whether or not the Freq-Watt function is enabled when connecting to their grid AND what setpoints determine the operation (e.g. what freq the ramp starts at and how fast power goes down with increased frequency). So, there is not currently any “standard” for implementing this for grid-interactive inverters. Has anyone on this list activated Freq-Watt on an inverter where the utility does not require it (with the utility’s blessing of course)? Even with all the noise around the impending requirement of UL 1741 SB, I don’t think utilities will require Freq-Watt be enabled until PV penetration is noticeable. And then they still can choose their own setpoints. I think it will remain the discretion of manufacturers how their equipment operates in microgrid mode, but without a standard set of parameters for Freq-Watt operation required for grid-tied operation I don’t see any “common standard” for microgrid Freq-Watt settings. Michael Mahon Senior Technical Trainer, Solar Academy SMA America From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:33 AM To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Jeff Clearwater > Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling Standard? Hey Esteemed Wrenchies, Does anyone know if manufacturer's are using any common standard for AC Coupling frequency shift algorithms? Is it part of any UL standard? Seems like since it's a battery charge control issue it needs some rigor? Are manufacturer's just copying each other? Did SMA's Sunny Island/Sunny Boy set that standard? Curious! Best Jeff C. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Jeff Clearwater [image001.jpg] linkedin www.villagepowerdesign.com cell - 413-559-9763 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar Inc. Office: 707-412-3181 Cell: 707-684-0064 www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 935714 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 198355 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: From Glenn.burt at glbcc.com Fri Dec 2 17:19:39 2022 From: Glenn.burt at glbcc.com (Glenn Burt) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2022 17:19:39 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing Message-ID: I recently found that Victron makes DC bus bars for battery work with studs already on them. Up to 600A models are available.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.------ Original message------From: William Miller via RE-wrenchesDate: Fri, Dec 2, 2022 3:42 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: William Miller;Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL ListingColleagues: I am gearing up to tap some more copper.  I assume this is a pertinent subject since bus bars are going to be needed frequently for any storage work. I bought the fancy drill press with the tapping function and I am setting it up.  I ran a few tests and the functionality of the tool is pretty amazing.  I still need to work on programming it to reverse when needed.  I am close.  I also ordered a cross vise for part holding. I found this tutorial on line that has provided me with some valuable insight on different styles of taps.   William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenchesSent: Monday, September 12, 2022 7:39 PMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: Michael MorningstarSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing No, I haven't. I'll do some testing tomorrow as we have 60 holes/taps to do in the above mentioned bussing On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:54 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches wrote:Michael,             Are you using kerosene as a cutting fluid?  We've had better luck with that in softer than steel metals.BillFeather River Solar ElectricBill Battagin, Owner4291 Nelson St.Taylorsville, CA 95983530.284.7849CA Lic 874049On 9/11/2022 7:00 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:> We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house > fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now > we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars > in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with > slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover > AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer > sign off on our designs.>> I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper. > I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to > thru-bolting.-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.www.avast.com_______________________________________________List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Michael Morningstar Morningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560mjmorningstar at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Fri Dec 2 17:51:11 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 14:51:11 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: <288a21e6480d7f372fb0af4556855e68@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AB3F059-0775-4342-8B56-9CF5CE891868@solarwork.com> <288a21e6480d7f372fb0af4556855e68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Wrenches, William I did a few back up systems for data hubs, we had 250+ kWhr systems. We had to have a firewall between the batteries and everything else. We used copper stock 1/2 x 2" and 20' long, each bank connected to the buss with its own 250 a breaker, the buss was above the batteries mounted to SS strut using 1000 volt insulators on both positive and negative. The power conditioners were on the opposite side of the wall again all connected to the buss going to each unit and again protected. Was very clean, no line loss, very clean and was duplicated in several locations. We also had a 125 k cummins genny outside that would take over to keep us all connected. Jerry PS, we did not tap and we used brass bolts and nuts, l dont recall why but it may have not been able to torg enough. On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, 12:42 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Colleagues: > > > > I am gearing up to tap some more copper. I assume this is a pertinent > subject since bus bars are going to be needed frequently for any storage > work. > > > > I bought the fancy drill press with the tapping function and I am setting > it up. I ran a few tests and the functionality of the tool is pretty > amazing. I still need to work on programming it to reverse when needed. I > am close. I also ordered a cross vise for part holding. > > > > I found this tutorial > > on line that has provided me with some valuable insight on different styles > of taps. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2022 7:39 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Michael Morningstar > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing > > > > No, I haven't. I'll do some testing tomorrow as we have 60 holes/taps to > do in the above mentioned bussing > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:54 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Michael, > > Are you using kerosene as a cutting fluid? We've had > better luck with that in softer than steel metals. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > > On 9/11/2022 7:00 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house > > fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now > > we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars > > in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with > > slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover > > AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer > > sign off on our designs. > > > > I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper. > > I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to > > thru-bolting. > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com Fri Dec 2 17:52:58 2022 From: jeffc at villagepowerdesign.com (Jeff Clearwater) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2022 17:52:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46075CD0-EDFC-44B3-A9D1-B4417BD40C5F@villagepowerdesign.com> Actually up to 1500 amps available including 1000 amp version as well. It’s hidden in the spec sheets under large fuse holders. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 2, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote: > >  > I recently found that Victron makes DC bus bars for battery work with studs already on them. Up to 600A models are available. > > -Glenn > Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors. > > ------ Original message------ > From: William Miller via RE-wrenches > Date: Fri, Dec 2, 2022 3:42 PM > To: RE-wrenches; > Cc: William Miller; > Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing > > Colleagues: > > > > I am gearing up to tap some more copper. I assume this is a pertinent subject since bus bars are going to be needed frequently for any storage work. > > > > I bought the fancy drill press with the tapping function and I am setting it up. I ran a few tests and the functionality of the tool is pretty amazing. I still need to work on programming it to reverse when needed. I am close. I also ordered a cross vise for part holding. > > > > I found this tutorial on line that has provided me with some valuable insight on different styles of taps. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 7:39 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Michael Morningstar > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Large current battery combiners, UL Listing > > > > No, I haven't. I'll do some testing tomorrow as we have 60 holes/taps to do in the above mentioned bussing > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:54 AM frenergy via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Michael, > > Are you using kerosene as a cutting fluid? We've had > better luck with that in softer than steel metals. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > > On 9/11/2022 7:00 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > We've gotten around needing UL listings for one-off in house > > fabrication by running things through a licensed engineer. Right now > > we are building a gutter bus which has two 1/2" x 4" x 20' copper bars > > in a 10" x 10" gutter. We are using 2" x 9" x 9" UDPM plates with > > slots routed out for the bars as insulators. This is for 24 Discover > > AES and 8 Sol-Ark's. It usually costs about 1K to have an engineer > > sign off on our designs. > > > > I'd be interested in learning tricks for tapping 3/8" in thick copper. > > I've never been able to get consistent results and resort to > > thru-bolting. > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > Morningstar Electric > PO Box 1494 > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > 530-921-0560 > mjmorningstar at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sun Dec 4 08:21:10 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 06:21:10 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning Message-ID: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> Hey Now All Wise ones! An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 watt 2 strings of 7 modules. Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ - 6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & full sun & 350watts solar input. He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or warning. My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. Thoughts & suggestions? Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparadeo.chris at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 09:04:19 2022 From: sparadeo.chris at gmail.com (Chris Sparadeo) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 09:04:19 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Hi Dana, If the battery is in closed loop with the inverter and the battery is cold, it might be limiting charge due to cold temps. Best, Chris On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 8:21 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey Now All Wise ones! > > > > An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting > only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 > watt 2 strings of 7 modules. > > > > Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ > -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate > consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & > full sun & 350watts solar input. > > > > He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW > charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or > warning. > > > > My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F > scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! > > > > I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a > colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did > not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. > > > > Thoughts & suggestions? > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maclewis1 at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 09:41:07 2022 From: maclewis1 at gmail.com (Mac Lewis) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 07:41:07 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Hi Dana, What type of batteries? What battery mode? If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are certain modes that the BMS is running the charging show. I've seen the Sol-Ark throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these circumstances. A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's on the battery management side or PV only side. It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at the correct QCell spec sheet. As far as the temperature theory. You can have temps on surfaces below ambient. This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and evaporation. The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky (very cold) is exchanging heat with a surface. This is why you can get ice on lakes above 32F. It's very complex to model this but I doubt you could come close to lowering the temperature far enough to drive the Voc out of the MPP range. Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that temperature back to ambient. For example if you had a lot of wind in a clear cold night, the convection heat exchange from the wind would actually warm up the surface. Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature below ambient as well. It will pull latent thermal energy from objects in order to change the phase of the molecules. This actually has a stabilizing effect on temperature typically because it takes a lot of energy to change phase. This is why people use large water barrels in greenhouses to release latent energy to prevent freezing. Please let us know what you find out. Thanks! On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey Now All Wise ones! > > > > An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting > only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 > watt 2 strings of 7 modules. > > > > Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ > -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate > consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & > full sun & 350watts solar input. > > > > He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW > charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or > warning. > > > > My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F > scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! > > > > I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a > colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did > not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. > > > > Thoughts & suggestions? > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Mac Lewis *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sun Dec 4 09:59:39 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 07:59:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <004101d907f1$08c71d80$1a555880$@solarwork.com> Dual - Discoverer LI battery bank not sure on battery mode setting (written down but cannot locate at the moment) & no backup generator. Very conservative & minimalist client. I over designed past his energy load evaluation request on purpose as he did not want to have to use a generator. He has built the entire house off of 2 - small 12 volt PV systems & battery charging cordless tools. Living on site in the garage… I am very impressed with his commitment to low impact & not a wackadoodle or survivalist either. Excellent classical, bluegrass, & jazz cellist. Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 7:41 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Mac Lewis Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning Hi Dana, What type of batteries? What battery mode? If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are certain modes that the BMS is running the charging show. I've seen the Sol-Ark throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these circumstances. A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's on the battery management side or PV only side. It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at the correct QCell spec sheet. As far as the temperature theory. You can have temps on surfaces below ambient. This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and evaporation. The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky (very cold) is exchanging heat with a surface. This is why you can get ice on lakes above 32F. It's very complex to model this but I doubt you could come close to lowering the temperature far enough to drive the Voc out of the MPP range. Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that temperature back to ambient. For example if you had a lot of wind in a clear cold night, the convection heat exchange from the wind would actually warm up the surface. Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature below ambient as well. It will pull latent thermal energy from objects in order to change the phase of the molecules. This actually has a stabilizing effect on temperature typically because it takes a lot of energy to change phase. This is why people use large water barrels in greenhouses to release latent energy to prevent freezing. Please let us know what you find out. Thanks! On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hey Now All Wise ones! An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 watt 2 strings of 7 modules. Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & full sun & 350watts solar input. He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or warning. My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. Thoughts & suggestions? Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 10:49:46 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 07:49:46 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: <004101d907f1$08c71d80$1a555880$@solarwork.com> References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> <004101d907f1$08c71d80$1a555880$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: If they are the AES 48-6650 batteries I think they do *not* have low temperature mode, and will be damaged if they are charged while they are below freezing. The AES 48-3000 I think *do* have a low temperature mode and would prevent charging if they are below freezing. Wind will tend to make any object closer to the ambient temperature, unless there is evaporation involved. So, if there is radiation to the sky making the object colder, the wind will warm it. If there is solar radiation making it warmer, wind will cool it off. Warm animal bodies of course will be cooled by wind if the ambient temperature is below body temperature, and cooled even more by evaporation. Brad On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 7:01 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Dual - Discoverer LI battery bank not sure on battery mode setting > (written down but cannot locate at the moment) & no backup generator. Very > conservative & minimalist client. I over designed past his energy load > evaluation request on purpose as he did not want to have to use a > generator. > > He has built the entire house off of 2 - small 12 volt PV systems & > battery charging cordless tools. Living on site in the garage… > > I am very impressed with his commitment to low impact & not a wackadoodle > or survivalist either. Excellent classical, bluegrass, & jazz cellist. > > > > > > *Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.* > *7003* > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Sunday, December 4, 2022 7:41 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Mac Lewis > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning > > > > Hi Dana, > > > > What type of batteries? What battery mode? > > > > If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are > certain modes that the BMS is running the charging show. I've seen the > Sol-Ark throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these > circumstances. > > A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's on > the battery management side or PV only side. > > > > It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at the > correct QCell spec sheet. > > > > As far as the temperature theory. You can have temps on surfaces below > ambient. This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and > evaporation. The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky (very > cold) is exchanging heat with a surface. This is why you can get ice on > lakes above 32F. It's very complex to model this but I doubt you could > come close to lowering the temperature far enough to drive the Voc out of > the MPP range. > > > > Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that > temperature back to ambient. For example if you had a lot of wind in a > clear cold night, the convection heat exchange from the wind would actually > warm up the surface. > > > > Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature below > ambient as well. It will pull latent thermal energy from objects in order > to change the phase of the molecules. This actually has a stabilizing > effect on temperature typically because it takes a lot of energy to change > phase. This is why people use large water barrels in greenhouses to > release latent energy to prevent freezing. > > > > Please let us know what you find out. > > > > Thanks! > > > > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hey Now All Wise ones! > > > > An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting > only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 > watt 2 strings of 7 modules. > > > > Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ > -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate > consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & > full sun & 350watts solar input. > > > > He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW > charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or > warning. > > > > My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F > scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! > > > > I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a > colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did > not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. > > > > Thoughts & suggestions? > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates* > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 12:10:58 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 12:10:58 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Dana, Sounds like potentially the same issue I've been dealing with in a new Sol-Ark 15 paired with Fortress eVault Maxs. Apparently, Sol-Ark did a recent firmware update that caused erratic closed loop communication between the inverter and batteries. I don't know if the Sol-Ark firmware update effected other inverter sizes. This Sol-Ark update resulted in weird charging behavior and odd generator run times. Apparently, Fortress was unaware of this communication issue until I and a few other installers started reporting the odd behaviors. Fortress sent me a "beta" firmware update which appears to have solved the problem. We're still waiting to update a larger system to make sure the new firmware is stable and fully effective. In any case, this may or may not be the issue in your case, but it may be worth raising the issue with AES and Sol-Ark. Howie On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 8:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey Now All Wise ones! > > > > An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting > only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 > watt 2 strings of 7 modules. > > > > Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ > -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate > consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & > full sun & 350watts solar input. > > > > He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW > charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or > warning. > > > > My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F > scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! > > > > I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a > colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did > not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. > > > > Thoughts & suggestions? > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Sun Dec 4 12:39:17 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2022 09:39:17 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> <004101d907f1$08c71d80$1a555880$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: That is not my experience with all of the xanbus model AES. Maybe the ones from 2018? All of the others will shut down the contactor and you will lose inverter to protect from charging at temps below 32F. There will be plenty of warnings and a fault event into the Conext Cloud devices or SCP. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-12-04 7:49 am, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches wrote: > If they are the AES 48-6650 batteries I think they do not have low > temperature mode, and will be damaged if they are charged while they > are below freezing. The AES 48-3000 I think do have a low temperature > mode and would prevent charging if they are below freezing. > > Wind will tend to make any object closer to the ambient temperature, > unless there is evaporation involved. So, if there is radiation to the > sky making the object colder, the wind will warm it. If there is solar > radiation making it warmer, wind will cool it off. Warm animal bodies > of course will be cooled by wind if the ambient temperature is below > body temperature, and cooled even more by evaporation. > > Brad > > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 7:01 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Dual - Discoverer LI battery bank not sure on battery mode setting > (written down but cannot locate at the moment) & no backup generator. > Very conservative & minimalist client. I over designed past his energy > load evaluation request on purpose as he did not want to have to use a > generator. > > He has built the entire house off of 2 - small 12 volt PV systems & > battery charging cordless tools. Living on site in the garage... > > I am very impressed with his commitment to low impact & not a > wackadoodle or survivalist either. Excellent classical, bluegrass, & > jazz cellist. > > Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf > Of Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches > Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 7:41 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Mac Lewis > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning > > Hi Dana, > > What type of batteries? What battery mode? > > If you have Lithium batteries with communication enabled, there are > certain modes that the BMS is running the charging show. I've seen the > Sol-Ark throttle back charge as instructed by the BMS under these > circumstances. > > A quick check of this would be to start the generator and see if it's > on the battery management side or PV only side. > > It seems like you are way below the MPPT upper limit if Im looking at > the correct QCell spec sheet. > > As far as the temperature theory. You can have temps on surfaces below > ambient. This can happen in two ways that I am aware of: radiation and > evaporation. The radiation effect occurs because the cold night sky > (very cold) is exchanging heat with a surface. This is why you can get > ice on lakes above 32F. It's very complex to model this but I doubt > you could come close to lowering the temperature far enough to drive > the Voc out of the MPP range. > > Also, there will be competing heat exchange trying to drive that > temperature back to ambient. For example if you had a lot of wind in a > clear cold night, the convection heat exchange from the wind would > actually warm up the surface. > > Evaporation (or any phase change) can drop an object's temperature > below ambient as well. It will pull latent thermal energy from objects > in order to change the phase of the molecules. This actually has a > stabilizing effect on temperature typically because it takes a lot of > energy to change phase. This is why people use large water barrels in > greenhouses to release latent energy to prevent freezing. > > Please let us know what you find out. > > Thanks! > > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 6:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Hey Now All Wise ones! > > An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting > only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell > 325 watt 2 strings of 7 modules. > > Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps > @ -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge > rate consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative > temps & full sun & 350watts solar input. > > He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW > charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm > or warning. > > My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F > scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! > > I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a > colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill > did not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being > driven off. > > Thoughts & suggestions? > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com [1] www.solarwor.com [2] > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- > > Mac Lewis > > "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.greatsolarworks.com/ [2] http://www.solarwor.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 13:10:58 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 10:10:58 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: This is interesting, set all aside temps, how its constructed, the power cycle is what changed it. Sounds like the inverter(s) were stuck in a finish charge, this may be a programming issue, is it available on line to watch remotely, has it done that again, next day? Fun times programming On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 5:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey Now All Wise ones! > > > > An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting > only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 > watt 2 strings of 7 modules. > > > > Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ > -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate > consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & > full sun & 350watts solar input. > > > > He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW > charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or > warning. > > > > My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F > scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! > > > > I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a > colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did > not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. > > > > Thoughts & suggestions? > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sun Dec 4 14:38:17 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2022 12:38:17 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: <000401d90817$f5dbc0f0$e19342d0$@solarwork.com> I will additionally call Solark Tech & see what they have to contribute. Thanks all for the real world first! Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 11:11 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Jerry Shafer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning This is interesting, set all aside temps, how its constructed, the power cycle is what changed it. Sounds like the inverter(s) were stuck in a finish charge, this may be a programming issue, is it available on line to watch remotely, has it done that again, next day? Fun times programming On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 5:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches > wrote: Hey Now All Wise ones! An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 watt 2 strings of 7 modules. Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & full sun & 350watts solar input. He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or warning. My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. Thoughts & suggestions? Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Mon Dec 5 17:14:05 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 17:14:05 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 to ESS Ratio Message-ID: I have seen in press releases that there is no limit to the number of IQ8 microinverters on the roof relative to the battery size. I can't remember if I saw this in Enphase marketing or directly in the documentation. But in reality, there is a limit. It's 64A of inverter output current since the Smart Controller only accepts an 80A PV breaker. This is a limitation of the rapid shutdown functionality. With IQ7 there is a 1.5x limit for PV to the battery inverter output rating. However, you can actually install 96A of inverter output. You can have up to 64A on the PV breaker and up to 32A on the load side of the smart controller (or any combination up to 96A inverter output rating as long as the PV breaker component does not exceed 80A). Am I missing something here? It seems like the IQ8 is very limiting if you need a lot of PV paired with a maxed-out battery system. That's a strong reason to use IQ7 over IQ8 in some scenarios. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 00:30:34 2022 From: Howie.Michaelson at gmail.com (Howie Michaelson) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 00:30:34 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning In-Reply-To: <000401d90817$f5dbc0f0$e19342d0$@solarwork.com> References: <000d01d907e3$470bda30$d5238e90$@solarwork.com> <000401d90817$f5dbc0f0$e19342d0$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Dana's troubles with the Sol-Ark reminded me that I wanted to write about my experience with Sol-Ark and Fortress as my troubles with that install were unfolding. I had made many calls and emails to both Sol-Ark and Fortress about the lack of charging and the odd generator behavior. Sol-Ark was more available for conversations and troubleshooting than Fortress, but after going through as much as they could think of, they decided the issues must have been on Fortress' end. Fortress was not being very helpful, being very short with their written responses and being difficult to get live on a phone call. They basically said nothing on their end could be causing the problems we were experiencing and threw it back into Sol-Ark's court. I wrote a note to Fortress complaining about what I was considering the unacceptable level of support I was getting primarily from Fortress. After a little back and forth, we finally got into a productive email and phone exchange where they eventually let me know that they were just beginning to see other problems with their closed loop pairing with Sol-Ark. At this point, it seems that Sol-Ark did a firmware revision a few weeks ago, which somehow caused just enough disruption to the Canbus communication with Fortress, that it caused erratic seemingly random behavior between the 2 pieces of equipment, which neither manufacturer initial recognized as a communication problem, but assumed must be a programming problem (which it essentially was). After the initial period of being largely blown off by Fortress, once they started to recognize what the issue might be, they kicked in and have been very responsive and helpful since. They quickly generated a new firmware which they had done internal testing on and then we updated one set of batteries a week ago. As best as I can tell, so far the closed loop communications and the system have operated well. I hope to update the larger system this week and switch it over to closed loop, as it has been operating in open loop for several days now. Once we switch it over, I will report back as to how it is working. I do want to reiterate that after Fortress' (in my opinion) initial delayed and less than helpful responses, I am pleased with the support I have since been given. I do think the way they've set up their support response needs some significant tweaking, but it sounds like they are at least open to getting feedback and suggestions from wrenches that are interested in doing so. Howie *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 2:39 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I will additionally call Solark Tech & see what they have to contribute. > > Thanks all for the real world first! > > > > > > *Dana Orzel - E - dana at solarwork.com - C - 208.721.* > *7003* > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Sunday, December 4, 2022 11:11 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sola-ark cold morning > > > > This is interesting, set all aside temps, how its constructed, the power > cycle is what changed it. Sounds like the inverter(s) were stuck in a > finish charge, this may be a programming issue, is it available on line to > watch remotely, has it done that again, next day? > > Fun times programming > > > > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022, 5:22 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Hey Now All Wise ones! > > > > An of gird client emailed yesterday that his Solark had been accepting > only 350 watts of a 4KW input from the array. The modules are Q-cell 325 > watt 2 strings of 7 modules. > > > > Sunrise, full sun, no clouds so no edge of cloud effect, negative temps @ > -6˚F, he waited all day with no improvement or change in the charge rate > consistent 350watts input & then same thing next morning. Negative temps & > full sun & 350watts solar input. > > > > He turned the Solark off for 10 minutes & then turned it back on & 4KW > charge input returned. The Solark did not turn off or deliver any alarm or > warning. > > > > My initial thought was over-voltage spike, we designed for a -25˚F > scenario & 110 PSF snow load. Beefy! > > > > I did not ask if it was windy additionally. Could this contribute to a > colder array temp? I have always been of the impression that wind chill did > not affect metal or glass that it has to do with moisture being driven off. > > > > Thoughts & suggestions? > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Mon Dec 5 11:52:05 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2022 08:52:05 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XWPro produces noise at low (<50 W Power) Message-ID: The inverter produces acceptable noise under no-load and at loads above 50 W or so. The noise (humming/buzzing) increases drastically at low power. So, essentially it makes a lot of noise at night. Has anyone else encountered this? We suspect it is the transformer vibrating - some kind of resonance with the inverter enclosure. But it's the first time we have encountered this. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Tue Dec 6 14:45:07 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 14:45:07 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XWPro produces noise at low (<50 W Power) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1117973F-2F28-4EC7-89AB-EAF6E100AF81@swnl.net> I have heard this too. Eric from SE has been cced here and the first thing I was told to due was: Set inverter to bypass (someone needs to be on site, as the inverter will shut off during reboot) Check & update firmware, RESET ALL factory defaults and reenter your grid code. If you find this a bit confusing, Tech support IS QUITE supportive. > On Dec 5, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches wrote: > > The inverter produces acceptable noise under no-load and at loads above 50 W or so. > The noise (humming/buzzing) increases drastically at low power. So, essentially it makes a lot of noise at night. > Has anyone else encountered this? We suspect it is the transformer vibrating - some kind of resonance with the inverter enclosure. But it's the first time we have encountered this. > > > Eric Smiley, Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 > T: 888.386.0116 > VIRIDIANENERGY.CA > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at vecoop.ca Tue Dec 6 15:03:49 2022 From: eric at vecoop.ca (Eric Smiley) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 12:03:49 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XWPro produces noise at low (<50 W Power) In-Reply-To: <1117973F-2F28-4EC7-89AB-EAF6E100AF81@swnl.net> References: <1117973F-2F28-4EC7-89AB-EAF6E100AF81@swnl.net> Message-ID: Thanks. That was the feedback we already received. I think it is SOP for Schneider to tell you to reinstall firmware and reset to factory - no matter what the problem. Fortunately, we have to go back to do some more wor - they are finally receiving their generator. That will give us a chance to recommission the system. *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager eric at vecoop.ca T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * * * On Tue, 6 Dec 2022 at 11:45, Tump via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I have heard this too. Eric from SE has been cced here and the first thing > I was told to due was: Set inverter to bypass (someone needs to be on site, > as the inverter will shut off during reboot) Check & update firmware, RESET > ALL factory defaults and reenter your grid code. > If you find this a bit confusing, Tech support IS QUITE supportive. > > On Dec 5, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > The inverter produces acceptable noise under no-load and at loads above 50 > W or so. > The noise (humming/buzzing) increases drastically at low power. So, > essentially it makes a lot of noise at night. > Has anyone else encountered this? We suspect it is the transformer > vibrating - some kind of resonance with the inverter enclosure. But it's > the first time we have encountered this. > > > *Eric Smiley,* Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 <+12507036004> > T: 888.386.0116 <+18883860116> > *VIRIDIANENERGY.CA * > > * * > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adirondackbattery at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 15:45:21 2022 From: adirondackbattery at gmail.com (Amanda Potter) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 15:45:21 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter Message-ID: Hello Wrenches, Has anyone received any support from Generac for repairs, programming information, or warranty issues? Since they own Pika, shouldn’t they support their products? Thank You ahead of time. Amanda Potter Energy Storage Specialist NABCEP PV Installation Professional ADIRONDACK BATTERY & SOLAR, LLC Potsdam, NY (315) 212-2114 call/ text Adirondackbatteryandsolar.com From pgiroux at mindspring.com Tue Dec 6 16:18:23 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 16:18:23 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> Amanda Got a call from a family in North Ga who had a Generac system installed by some company out of Knoxville ( who did not install it themselves ). It is not working, the company who sold it will not service it or correct the issues. They claim they have no one who can do that. Apparently Generac does not seem to be able to help them either and the Family has asked that I come up and work on the system. Does anyone have a # for someone at Generac that will step up?? Thx Peter Giroux ASAE -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Amanda Potter via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 3:45 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Amanda Potter Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter Hello Wrenches, Has anyone received any support from Generac for repairs, programming information, or warranty issues? Since they own Pika, shouldn’t they support their products? Thank You ahead of time. Amanda Potter Energy Storage Specialist NABCEP PV Installation Professional ADIRONDACK BATTERY & SOLAR, LLC Potsdam, NY (315) 212-2114 call/ text Adirondackbatteryandsolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From rich at solartechvt.com Tue Dec 6 17:00:51 2022 From: rich at solartechvt.com (rich at solartechvt.com) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 17:00:51 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter In-Reply-To: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> We've had a good experience thus far with the Generac Powercell systems and tech support has been reasonable. You are supposed to be certified to sell and install the systems and most importantly in this case, you need a dealer number and tech id number in order to work with tech support. (of course they're still listed for retail sale on the internet direct to consumers) Generac should be able to provide the name of a certified clean energy installer in that area. Doing a quick search on the Generac web site I found Abbot Electric, Maryville TN. 239-980-4764. https://www.generac.com/dealer-locator.aspx?category=1 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 4:18 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: pgiroux at mindspring.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter Amanda Got a call from a family in North Ga who had a Generac system installed by some company out of Knoxville ( who did not install it themselves ). It is not working, the company who sold it will not service it or correct the issues. They claim they have no one who can do that. Apparently Generac does not seem to be able to help them either and the Family has asked that I come up and work on the system. Does anyone have a # for someone at Generac that will step up?? Thx Peter Giroux ASAE -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Amanda Potter via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 3:45 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Amanda Potter Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter Hello Wrenches, Has anyone received any support from Generac for repairs, programming information, or warranty issues? Since they own Pika, shouldn’t they support their products? Thank You ahead of time. Amanda Potter Energy Storage Specialist NABCEP PV Installation Professional ADIRONDACK BATTERY & SOLAR, LLC Potsdam, NY (315) 212-2114 call/ text Adirondackbatteryandsolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Tue Dec 6 17:48:13 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 22:48:13 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter In-Reply-To: <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: The PIKA turbines are long gone and there are likely no parts available anywhere. Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St. Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > On Dec 6, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Rich Nicol via RE-wrenches wrote: > > We've had a good experience thus far with the Generac Powercell systems and tech support has been reasonable. You are supposed to be certified to sell and install the systems and most importantly in this case, you need a dealer number and tech id number in order to work with tech support. (of course they're still listed for retail sale on the internet direct to consumers) > > Generac should be able to provide the name of a certified clean energy installer in that area. Doing a quick search on the Generac web site I found Abbot Electric, Maryville TN. 239-980-4764. > https://www.generac.com/dealer-locator.aspx?category=1 > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 4:18 PM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Cc: pgiroux at mindspring.com > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter > > Amanda > > Got a call from a family in North Ga who had a Generac system installed by some company out of Knoxville ( who did not install it themselves ). It is not working, the company who sold it will not service it or correct the issues. They claim they have no one who can do that. Apparently Generac does not seem to be able to help them either and the Family has asked that I come up and work on the system. Does anyone have a # for someone at Generac that will step up?? > > Thx > Peter Giroux > ASAE > > -----Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Amanda Potter via RE-wrenches > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 3:45 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Amanda Potter > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter > > Hello Wrenches, > Has anyone received any support from Generac for repairs, programming information, or warranty issues? > Since they own Pika, shouldn’t they support their products? > > Thank You ahead of time. > > Amanda Potter > Energy Storage Specialist > NABCEP PV Installation Professional > ADIRONDACK BATTERY & SOLAR, LLC > Potsdam, NY > (315) 212-2114 call/ text > Adirondackbatteryandsolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From tump at swnl.net Tue Dec 6 18:18:04 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 18:18:04 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XWPro produces noise at low (<50 W Power) In-Reply-To: References: <1117973F-2F28-4EC7-89AB-EAF6E100AF81@swnl.net> Message-ID: <49FBE7BD-6714-497B-9728-7244C6CBDCFD@swnl.net> I will agree but despite my frustrations, as long as you update firmware on BOTH the insight & the XW PRO inverter it seemed to address at least that issue. Once FW updated you must, accessing the config menu on the inverter, go to the “control” menu, then go to the reset, select the bottom reset "ALL factory defaults”. Once updated reapply grid code & your settings. CYCLE the system to operating then back to standby twice to place your settings into the “non volatile” memory. I find there are a lot of menu settings and would really like to have a flow chart that describes settings according to the application of the inverter. Off grid uses a certain background color, your settings using an LiFe battery, uses a different color conflicting settings red or so etc. Paper works better for me as opposed to 2 computers and even then its way to easy to enter conflicting settings…. IMO. Im old & not to computer savy. > On Dec 6, 2022, at 3:03 PM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Thanks. That was the feedback we already received. I think it is SOP for Schneider to tell you to reinstall firmware and reset to factory - no matter what the problem. > Fortunately, we have to go back to do some more wor - they are finally receiving their generator. That will give us a chance to recommission the system. > > > Eric Smiley, Project Manager > eric at vecoop.ca > T: 250.703.6004 > T: 888.386.0116 > VIRIDIANENERGY.CA > > > > On Tue, 6 Dec 2022 at 11:45, Tump via RE-wrenches > wrote: > I have heard this too. Eric from SE has been cced here and the first thing I was told to due was: Set inverter to bypass (someone needs to be on site, as the inverter will shut off during reboot) Check & update firmware, RESET ALL factory defaults and reenter your grid code. > If you find this a bit confusing, Tech support IS QUITE supportive. >> On Dec 5, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches > wrote: >> >> The inverter produces acceptable noise under no-load and at loads above 50 W or so. >> The noise (humming/buzzing) increases drastically at low power. So, essentially it makes a lot of noise at night. >> Has anyone else encountered this? We suspect it is the transformer vibrating - some kind of resonance with the inverter enclosure. But it's the first time we have encountered this. >> >> >> Eric Smiley, Project Manager >> eric at vecoop.ca >> T: 250.703.6004 >> T: 888.386.0116 >> VIRIDIANENERGY.CA >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > >> Tump <>3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net <> >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> Blair "TUMP" May >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Tue Dec 6 19:17:03 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 19:17:03 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter In-Reply-To: <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: <000801d909d1$3c9ae7e0$b5d0b7a0$@mindspring.com> Thank you -----Original Message----- From: rich at solartechvt.com Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 5:01 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: pgiroux at mindspring.com Subject: RE: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter We've had a good experience thus far with the Generac Powercell systems and tech support has been reasonable. You are supposed to be certified to sell and install the systems and most importantly in this case, you need a dealer number and tech id number in order to work with tech support. (of course they're still listed for retail sale on the internet direct to consumers) Generac should be able to provide the name of a certified clean energy installer in that area. Doing a quick search on the Generac web site I found Abbot Electric, Maryville TN. 239-980-4764. https://www.generac.com/dealer-locator.aspx?category=1 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 4:18 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: pgiroux at mindspring.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter Amanda Got a call from a family in North Ga who had a Generac system installed by some company out of Knoxville ( who did not install it themselves ). It is not working, the company who sold it will not service it or correct the issues. They claim they have no one who can do that. Apparently Generac does not seem to be able to help them either and the Family has asked that I come up and work on the system. Does anyone have a # for someone at Generac that will step up?? Thx Peter Giroux ASAE -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Amanda Potter via RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 3:45 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Amanda Potter Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter Hello Wrenches, Has anyone received any support from Generac for repairs, programming information, or warranty issues? Since they own Pika, shouldn’t they support their products? Thank You ahead of time. Amanda Potter Energy Storage Specialist NABCEP PV Installation Professional ADIRONDACK BATTERY & SOLAR, LLC Potsdam, NY (315) 212-2114 call/ text Adirondackbatteryandsolar.com _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From atersol at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 20:44:16 2022 From: atersol at gmail.com (Antony Tersol) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2022 17:44:16 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pika T701 & X3001 GT Inverter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We've received support on all (repairs, programming information, and warranty issues). We had become certified dealers with Generac after they acquired Pika, and have continued to sell the systems now that they are Generac. Early on, we were speaking with the same support people from Pika, who were still in Maine. Others at my company speak with Generac support when necessary, and as far as I know, support is as good as ever. *Antony Tersol* *Solex / Applied Solar Energy* *319 Forest Ave.* *Pacific Grove CA 93950* *831-333-1919* *antony at applied.solar * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Thu Dec 8 16:13:23 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 14:13:23 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v Message-ID: Howdy Wrenches, Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount? It's a Xantrex displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v. I'm prepared to head out there and troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share with me prior to my visit next week. Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to replace it. If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for swaps please share that intel as well. I don't know how big the array is so all I'm looking for is brands and not models. Most appreciated, Sam Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bchurchill at energy-1.net Thu Dec 8 16:22:40 2022 From: bchurchill at energy-1.net (Barton Churchill) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 21:22:40 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I’ve seen services at the end of utility lines have wildly fluctuating voltage, especially during high demand winter months. When voltage goes below or above inverter set points the inverter will disconnect with a fault like you listed. Changing inverters will only help if the new one has a larger voltage window. Otherwise get the utility to install a meter for a month or two, if there is a problem, they have to fix it. Also, if load side mains are undersized for actual load the voltage can drop at the inverter (and everywhere else) causing the same thing. ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 2:13:23 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Sam Haraldson Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v Howdy Wrenches, Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount? It's a Xantrex displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v. I'm prepared to head out there and troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share with me prior to my visit next week. Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to replace it. If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for swaps please share that intel as well. I don't know how big the array is so all I'm looking for is brands and not models. Most appreciated, Sam Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/default/images/218965d24e62dbfc42.jpeg?override=1564075269] | o. (406) 551-6135 [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e8855c857.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e8856b4e0.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e88595af2.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/icons/5d39e885a04f2.png] [https://esr-storage.s3.amazonaws.com/images/21230/108433/default/images/218965d38dc2e92d70.jpeg?override=1564075295] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 16:28:00 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:28:00 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wrenches First of all confirm as it might well be the inverter, SMA is a great solution for a replacement however like much we deal with are in short supply, if it is a battery inverter then the Solark or Outback are good solutions. On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Howdy Wrenches, > > Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I > might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount? It's a Xantrex > displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v. I'm prepared to head out there and > troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not > post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share > with me prior to my visit next week. > > Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown > so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to > replace it. If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for > swaps please share that intel as well. I don't know how big the array is > so all I'm looking for is brands and not models. > > Most appreciated, > Sam > Sam Haraldson > Installation & Service Manager > > > > | o. (406) 551-6135 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From solareagle at solareagle.com Thu Dec 8 16:57:17 2022 From: solareagle at solareagle.com (Ron Young) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:57:17 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822D31EC-47E3-44F9-BAAA-23572BBE636E@solareagle.com> Back in the mid ’90’s one of my businesses used colour laser copiers worth $50k each. Located at the end of a long rural route the voltage would whiplash through a wild range depending on demand upstream (mostly low voltage). It kept blowing the $5,000 lasers out of the copiers until the techs realized the problem after installing a data meter. Problem was solved by installing an isolating voltage conditioner. Best Regards, Ron Young earthRight Products - Solareagle.com Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products 1-877-925-2929 Follow us!  Follow us! > On Dec 8, 2022, at 1:22 PM, Barton Churchill via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I’ve seen services at the end of utility lines have wildly fluctuating voltage, especially during high demand winter months. When voltage goes below or above inverter set points the inverter will disconnect with a fault like you listed. Changing inverters will only help if the new one has a larger voltage window. Otherwise get the utility to install a meter for a month or two, if there is a problem, they have to fix it. Also, if load side mains are undersized for actual load the voltage can drop at the inverter (and everywhere else) causing the same thing. > From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2022 2:13:23 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: Sam Haraldson > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v > > Howdy Wrenches, > > Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount? It's a Xantrex displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v. I'm prepared to head out there and troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share with me prior to my visit next week. > > Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to replace it. If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for swaps please share that intel as well. I don't know how big the array is so all I'm looking for is brands and not models. > > Most appreciated, > Sam > Sam Haraldson > Installation & Service Manager > > > | o. (406) 551-6135 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: e943ecc8-5be2-4768-a17e-1b829b908afe.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1317 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 17:03:51 2022 From: jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com (Jerry Shafer) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 14:03:51 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The xantrex had one fused line on some of the GT lines,as l recall its a 15 or 20, no this is not the GFI Fuse, old SMA's also had just one. On Thu, Dec 8, 2022, 1:14 PM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Howdy Wrenches, > > Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I > might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount? It's a Xantrex > displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v. I'm prepared to head out there and > troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not > post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share > with me prior to my visit next week. > > Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown > so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to > replace it. If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for > swaps please share that intel as well. I don't know how big the array is > so all I'm looking for is brands and not models. > > Most appreciated, > Sam > Sam Haraldson > Installation & Service Manager > > > > | o. (406) 551-6135 > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Fri Dec 9 08:58:50 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2022 08:58:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What modules does it have? If they are susceptible to PID (Potential Induced Degradation), you may need to find an inverter with a solid negative ground. I avoided the Xantrex grid tie inverters, but am assuming the are grounded. Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2022-12-08 16:13, Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches wrote: > Howdy Wrenches, > > Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I > might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount? It's a > Xantrex displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v. I'm prepared to head > out there and troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but > figured why not post a quick message here in case anyone has insight > they wish to share with me prior to my visit next week. > > Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid > shutdown so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent > options to replace it. If you've had good luck with a particular brand > to use for swaps please share that intel as well. I don't know how big > the array is so all I'm looking for is brands and not models. > > Most appreciated, > Sam > > Sam Haraldson > > Installation & Service Manager > > http://www.onsiteenergyinc.com/ > > | > > o. (406) 551-6135 > > https://www.facebook.com/onsiteenergysolar/ > > https://www.instagram.com/onsiteenergyinc/ > > https://twitter.com/onsiteenergyinc > > https://www.linkedin.com/company/onsite-energy-inc/ > > https://onsiteenergyinc.com/bcorp > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Fri Dec 9 16:02:51 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2022 14:02:51 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Barton, Jerry, Ron, and Drake, Thanks for adding your initial insight into this situation. It provided me a few perspectives I hadn't considered right off the bat. There were also questions that some of you posed that I don't have the answers to yet as I haven't visited the site nor spoken with the client. If what I encounter is something I think the group will find interesting (such as Barton's "end of the line scenario") then I'll write up a follow-up message to everyone. If it's just an old inverter that finally broke I'll consider sparing you all the story Sam Haraldson Installation & Service Manager | o. (406) 551-6135 On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 11:07 AM Sam Haraldson wrote: > That sounds like an expensive lesson! About six months ago I had really > good luck with NWE verifying a half dozen different transformers all the > way down a long dirt road in the foothills by the Crazies. I stood by my > guns that a wildly fluctuating voltage couldn't be the inverter's fault and > they ended up tracing the issue back to a malfunctioning part in a > substation. > Sam Haraldson > Installation & Service Manager > > > m. (406) 249-6841 | o. (406) 551-6135 > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 11:02 AM Barton Churchill > wrote: > >> Hi Sam, while the client name sounds vaguely familiar I was not involved >> in the project. The situation I described was known by Sarah, we wound up >> digging up the mains and installing a couple hundred feet of 250 kcmil to >> minimize voltage rise at the inverters. A lesson in wire size I’ve never >> forgotten. Hopefully it’s just the inverter! We installed loads of xantrex, >> at the time they weren’t worse than anything else available but are >> probably ageing out now. Good luck! >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Sam Haraldson >> *Sent:* Friday, December 9, 2022 10:23:10 AM >> *To:* Barton Churchill >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v >> >> Barton, >> >> In case you're curious the site in question is an IPS client, Brad Dirckx >> that Conor installed so you may have laid eyes on it at some point too. >> >> Sam Haraldson >> Installation & Service Manager >> >> >> >> m. (406) 249-6841 | o. (406) 551-6135 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roland at renewablenergy.com Mon Dec 12 01:20:46 2022 From: roland at renewablenergy.com (Roland - RES) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 20:20:46 -1000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <01FC33B6-B37C-46AF-9509-85943704330A@sunwindpowerinc.com> References: <01FC33B6-B37C-46AF-9509-85943704330A@sunwindpowerinc.com> Message-ID: <240C3C60-DCC0-4E9B-BBA5-DED88102A2C8@renewablenergy.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2022 Logo Blue Tagline 2x no phone - small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23571 bytes Desc: not available URL: From solarworks at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 10:23:07 2022 From: solarworks at gmail.com (Kirpal) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 07:23:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverterters with SPS Message-ID: Good morning folks! Been interesting to see that both SMA and Fronius inverters ar no longer available thru our normal distribution channels. All their residential models seem to be unavailable with our distributors not having any idea on return to availability. Anyone know why both of these string inverter options seem to have evaporated....are they gone for good? WE have a client looking to do a system with 3 - 5kW inverters with the SPS. The SPS being the feature they are after. Anyone have insight into this availability issue or know where to get some of those inverters? Mike Mahon? Would appreciate any insight. Thanks. Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Mon Dec 12 10:41:19 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 10:41:19 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverterters with SPS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26AECC49-5967-4975-8461-5A922E2388FD@swnl.net> Been waiting on a Fronius for a 3.8kW for 2 months have an older system that had a low voltage array that is below the strike voltages of their “replacement” inverters…… Ahhhn the joys of Solar installation. > On Dec 12, 2022, at 10:23 AM, Kirpal via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Good morning folks! > Been interesting to see that both SMA and Fronius inverters ar no longer available thru our normal distribution channels. All their residential models seem to be unavailable with our distributors not having any idea on return to availability. Anyone know why both of these string inverter options seem to have evaporated....are they gone for good? > WE have a client looking to do a system with 3 - 5kW inverters with the SPS. The SPS being the feature they are after. Anyone have insight into this availability issue or know where to get some of those inverters? Mike Mahon? > Would appreciate any insight. > > Thanks. > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Mon Dec 12 11:02:13 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 11:02:13 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverterters with SPS In-Reply-To: <26AECC49-5967-4975-8461-5A922E2388FD@swnl.net> References: <26AECC49-5967-4975-8461-5A922E2388FD@swnl.net> Message-ID: I have heard from my distributor that SMA is in the process of ending the -41 line and will be coming out with a new line of inverter that is UL1741-SB certified. I've been told SMA says Q2 next year is when the new line will be available, but my vendor says that it always slips. This is a bummer for anyone in NY where the utilities are going to require UL1741-SB starting Jan1. So it seems for most of next year, our options are basically Enphase and SolarEdge... Cheers, Dave On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 10:42 AM Tump via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Been waiting on a Fronius for a 3.8kW for 2 months have an older system > that had a low voltage array that is below the strike voltages of their > “replacement” inverters…… Ahhhn the joys of Solar installation. > > On Dec 12, 2022, at 10:23 AM, Kirpal via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Good morning folks! > Been interesting to see that both SMA and Fronius inverters ar no longer > available thru our normal distribution channels. All their residential > models seem to be unavailable with our distributors not having any idea on > return to availability. Anyone know why both of these string inverter > options seem to have evaporated....are they gone for good? > WE have a client looking to do a system with 3 - 5kW inverters with the > SPS. The SPS being the feature they are after. Anyone have insight into > this availability issue or know where to get some of those inverters? Mike > Mahon? > Would appreciate any insight. > > Thanks. > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Mon Dec 12 11:09:22 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 08:09:22 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <240C3C60-DCC0-4E9B-BBA5-DED88102A2C8@renewablenergy.com> References: <01FC33B6-B37C-46AF-9509-85943704330A@sunwindpowerinc.com> <240C3C60-DCC0-4E9B-BBA5-DED88102A2C8@renewablenergy.com> Message-ID: <340c016c6a138362ffddb3100d809981@sti.net> Fortress has been great for me/and my clients and they have webinars all the time. Not sure why you guy's are not going to them? Below is one this week..... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for registering for "Holly Jolly Webinar 2022". Join Fortress Power West Coast Sales Director, Alex Lepore, for a festive and informational Holly Jolly Webinar! This webinar will discuss the following topics: - Battery overview - Supply challenges and product availability - Fortress Power in 2023 and beyond Please send your questions, comments and feedback to: sales at fortresspower.com Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-12-11 10:20 pm, Roland - RES via RE-wrenches wrote: > Aloha Jeremy, > > I would like to join this call. > > We have numerous Fortress systems installed. > >> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse >> shortcuts and typos. > >> > Roland Shackelford > > NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER > President > > Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. > Mobile: 808-938-9239 [1] > www.renewablenergy.com [2] > >> On Dec 1, 2022, at 1:22 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches >> wrote: > >> HI Wrenches, >> >> A couple of weeks ago this thread came up - main topic was lack of >> tech support from Fortress. A few days later I was contacted by Marc >> Zeitlin, Fortress's Regional sales manager Midwest. We haven't used >> Fortress yet, but I basically reiterated the concerns that were >> expressed on this thread and said that I'd be interested once they had >> their Tech support issues ironed out. To my surprise Marc really took >> that feedback and ran with it all the way up to offering me and those >> of you that are interested a call with their CEO and anyone else we >> would like to talk to. I offered to send this note to the list and >> invite you all to join the call. I would think we'd want to keep the >> numbers manageable, but we can figure that out. >> >> I don't have a horse in the race and have no association with >> Fortress, but I thought it might be a really good opportunity for >> those of you that have more experience with Fortress to get a direct >> line with their CEO and main tech folks so that we can hopefully >> improve things for all. Marc has proposed Thursday January 5th at >> 10am. Let me know directly at jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com if you're >> interested and I'll pass your name along so they can get this set up. >> >> Best Regards, >> Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21 >> MWBE Certified >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://808-938-9239/ [2] http://www.renewablenergy.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2022 Logo Blue Tagline 2x no phone - small.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23571 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com Mon Dec 12 12:27:19 2022 From: lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com (Lloyd Hoffstatter) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 17:27:19 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverterters with SPS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirpal, Just a reminder that SPS does not work (past day 1) with Rapid Shutdown. Best regards, Lloyd Lloyd Hoffstatter, M.S. Applied Solar Energy NABCEP Inaugural Certified PV Installer Emeritus Director, Sunstruck Consulting Lloyd at SunstruckConsulting.com 845-657-8132 (office) 914-844-3404 (mobile) From: Kirpal via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 10:24 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: Kirpal Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA inverterters with SPS Good morning folks! Been interesting to see that both SMA and Fronius inverters ar no longer available thru our normal distribution channels. All their residential models seem to be unavailable with our distributors not having any idea on return to availability. Anyone know why both of these string inverter options seem to have evaporated....are they gone for good? WE have a client looking to do a system with 3 - 5kW inverters with the SPS. The SPS being the feature they are after. Anyone have insight into this availability issue or know where to get some of those inverters? Mike Mahon? Would appreciate any insight. Thanks. Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at OasisMontana.com Fri Dec 16 13:04:01 2022 From: chris at OasisMontana.com (chris at OasisMontana.com) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 11:04:01 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> Message-ID: <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> Hi folks: We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a MidNite Classic 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an array of Trina TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with the ME-RC50 and a HUP SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen Set’s GFCI outlets trip. Thus far we have verified the connections are secure, assured that the gen set is grounded, disconnected the jumper within the E-Panel between the ground buss and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed the MNSPD’s from the buss(s)… Stumped now on what an appropriate next step should be. How do we get the PFC to function properly? What are we missing? Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com From offgridsolar at sti.net Fri Dec 16 13:15:35 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 10:15:35 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: <76f08a8f0e57c9695502771d3ab23198@sti.net> The easy answer is try another genset ! You have to be more specific, did it ever work? Is it new? etc. Good Luck ! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-12-16 10:04 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi folks: > > We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a MidNite > Classic 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an array of Trina > TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with the ME-RC50 and a HUP > SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. > When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen Set's > GFCI outlets trip. Thus far we have verified the connections are > secure, assured that the gen set is grounded, disconnected the jumper > within the E-Panel between the ground buss and neutral, checked AC > voltages, removed the MNSPD's from the buss(s)… Stumped now on what an > appropriate next step should be. How do we get the PFC to function > properly? What are we missing? > > Best, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com [1] > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.oasismontana.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at onsiteenergyinc.com Fri Dec 16 13:30:39 2022 From: sam at onsiteenergyinc.com (Sam Haraldson) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 11:30:39 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex AC Fault 186.6v In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I visited this site this morning and found AC and DC voltages at the inverter terminals to be within expected range (432 Vdc and 246 Vac). Since the error code on the inverter specified it being an AC problem I removed the upper cover of the inverter and traced all the terminal and soldered connections "upward" as far as I could until the current path disappeared somewhere into the inverter's circuitry. My readings were 246 Vac the entire way. I verified continuity on both of the "buss" fuses in the machine and they tested properly. Unless someone has further suggestions troubleshooting this issue I of the opinion the equipment has reached the end of its life. Not bad considering it's been kicking away for 16 years of Montana summers and winters. Cheers, Sam [image: OnSite Energy] SAM HARALDSON Installation & Service Manager Office: (406) 551-6135 <+14065516135> 1515 N. Rouse Ave Bozeman, MT 59715 Locally owned and operated since 2012 [image: B Corporation] On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 2:13 PM Sam Haraldson wrote: > Howdy Wrenches, > > Any "old timers" here care to chime in with some basic info on what I > might be heading out to see at a 10+ year old ground mount? It's a Xantrex > displaying the message AC Fault 186.6v. I'm prepared to head out there and > troubleshoot blind if no one has anything to offer up but figured why not > post a quick message here in case anyone has insight they wish to share > with me prior to my visit next week. > > Subsequently since this is a ground mount it doesn't need rapid shutdown > so if the inverter has failed I probably have some decent options to > replace it. If you've had good luck with a particular brand to use for > swaps please share that intel as well. I don't know how big the array is > so all I'm looking for is brands and not models. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirkh at vermont.solar Fri Dec 16 13:35:33 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 13:35:33 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: <76f08a8f0e57c9695502771d3ab23198@sti.net> References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> <76f08a8f0e57c9695502771d3ab23198@sti.net> Message-ID: You may have neutral and ground connected at more than 1 location, meaning at the genset and in house panel, which means the ground is carrying current back to the generator in parallel with the neutral. I remember with some Honda portables we had to float the neutral at the genset or the inverter would trip the generator's GFI when trying to charge the batteries. On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > The easy answer is try another genset ! You have to be more specific, did it ever work? Is it new? etc. Good Luck ! > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2022-12-16 10:04 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi folks: > > We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a MidNite Classic > 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an array of Trina > TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with the ME-RC50 and a HUP > SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. > When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen Set’s > GFCI outlets trip. Thus far we have verified the connections are secure, > assured that the gen set is grounded, disconnected the jumper within the > E-Panel between the ground buss and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed > the MNSPD’s from the buss(s)… Stumped now on what an appropriate next step > should be. How do we get the PFC to function properly? What are we > missing? > > Best, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ray at solarray.com Fri Dec 16 14:44:58 2022 From: ray at solarray.com (Ray Walters) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 12:44:58 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> <76f08a8f0e57c9695502771d3ab23198@sti.net> Message-ID: Undoing the N-G bond at the E panel may not do it either.  Are you sure neutral isn't also bonded in the main distribution panel?  It usually is bonded at the generator, so you definitely have to unbond there.  I'd say 60 to 70% of off grid systems are not bonded correctly that I've seen.  Just what Kirk said: it should only be bonded N-G at one and only one spot.  Check sub panels too.  My record was seven N-G bonds on one site.  It caused the shower to be energized; the customer thought that was normal....(don't touch the shower head!?!).....That site even had a N-G bond in the well pump wiring!  Took 3 days of unF***ing that wiring to finally get it. It ain't safe, until it's right.  The GFCI is doing its job, and so is the Magnum.  Now the electrician has to do his job.  Unless you wired the whole house, you're On to fix it.  Especially off grid, I see an amazing bunch of DIY garbage.  Find out who did the original wiring.  Probably not a pro. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 12/16/2022 11:35 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > You may have neutral and ground connected at more than 1 location, > meaning at the genset and in house panel, which means the ground is > carrying current back to the generator in parallel with the neutral. > > I remember with some Honda portables we had to float the neutral at > the genset or the inverter would trip the generator's GFI when trying > to charge the batteries. > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via > RE-wrenches wrote: > > The easy answer is try another genset ! You have to be more > specific, did it ever work? Is it new? etc. Good Luck ! > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2022-12-16 10:04 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > >> Hi folks: >> >> We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a MidNite >> Classic 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an array of >> Trina TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with the >> ME-RC50 and a HUP SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. >> When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen >> Set’s GFCI outlets trip.  Thus far we have verified the >> connections are secure, assured that the gen set is grounded, >> disconnected the jumper within the E-Panel between the ground >> buss and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed the MNSPD’s from >> the buss(s)…  Stumped now on what an appropriate next step should >> be.  How do we get the PFC to function properly?  What are we >> missing? >> >> Best, >> >> Chris Daum >> Oasis Montana Inc. >> 406-777-4309 or 4321 >> 406-777-4309 fax >> www.oasismontana.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar* > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roy at four-winds-energy.com Fri Dec 16 14:56:50 2022 From: roy at four-winds-energy.com (Roy Butler) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 14:56:50 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> <76f08a8f0e57c9695502771d3ab23198@sti.net> Message-ID: <785aab40-aadc-7bd9-beeb-7f768b628867@four-winds-energy.com> My bet is on a neutral to ground bond inside the generator! Roy Butler Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747www.four-winds-energy.com Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t. “The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.” Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 12/16/2022 1:35 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > You may have neutral and ground connected at more than 1 location, > meaning at the genset and in house panel, which means the ground is > carrying current back to the generator in parallel with the neutral. > > I remember with some Honda portables we had to float the neutral at > the genset or the inverter would trip the generator's GFI when trying > to charge the batteries. > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via > RE-wrenches wrote: > > The easy answer is try another genset ! You have to be more > specific, did it ever work? Is it new? etc. Good Luck ! > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2022-12-16 10:04 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > >> Hi folks: >> >> We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a MidNite >> Classic 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an array of >> Trina TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with the >> ME-RC50 and a HUP SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. >> When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen >> Set’s GFCI outlets trip.  Thus far we have verified the >> connections are secure, assured that the gen set is grounded, >> disconnected the jumper within the E-Panel between the ground >> buss and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed the MNSPD’s from >> the buss(s)…  Stumped now on what an appropriate next step should >> be.  How do we get the PFC to function properly?  What are we >> missing? >> >> Best, >> >> Chris Daum >> Oasis Montana Inc. >> 406-777-4309 or 4321 >> 406-777-4309 fax >> www.oasismontana.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, > try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar* > > *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* > > */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* > > *www.vermont.solar* > > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > 802.863.1202 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Fri Dec 16 15:15:43 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2022 13:15:43 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> <76f08a8f0e57c9695502771d3ab23198@sti.net> Message-ID: <6b736cbb-054d-794a-095d-c062cff702bf@sindelarsolar.com> Chris, I also found Kirk's response to capture what I would've checked first. Ray is correct about multiple neutral-ground bonds, but there's a point that I think has been missed. You didn't identify the generator, and I'm going to assume that it's a portable gasoline unit. They have GFCIs on the AC output because they're almost never connected to a solid ground, and that's the safest they can make the output - they internally bond neutral to the chassis of the gennie and run the output through a GFCI. When they're connected to an off grid home there's always going to be a ground loop in a correctly wired installation, because the Powercenter is the first point of disconnect and is thus where the overall system neutral-ground bond should be made. In my experience there is no fully Code-compliant solution to this. At least, I never came up with one, and many years ago neither could John Wiles when I discussed it with him. You don't want to disconnect the bond in the E-Panel because if the gennie is the only bond point and it's disconnected (by unplugging it) your system ground becomes unbonded. Stationary generators generally separate the bond, or at least allow it to be separated (small Kohler units always allowed this), because of this very issue - for prime power (non-solar) applications the bond is made at the source, but where it's a secondary source it needs to be separated. Portable generators don't give this option. The best solution John and I came up with is to treat the gennie as a separately derived system: ground it to its own rod; put it far enough from the home that you can't touch it and anything grounded in the home at the same time; bond normally in the E-Panel; and eliminate or disconnect and tie off the bonding conductor between the gennie and the PV system. Only by treating it as a separately derived system can you get around the requirement that all service equipment must be bonded. And if the gennie has a separable neutral-ground bond that's been opened, I have no idea how to solve your issue... 😉 Allan -- *Allan Sindelar* allan at sindelarsolar.com (Former) NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. Founder (Retired), Sindelar Solar *505 780-2738 cell* On 12/16/2022 12:44 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Undoing the N-G bond at the E panel may not do it either.  Are you > sure neutral isn't also bonded in the main distribution panel?  It > usually is bonded at the generator, so you definitely have to unbond > there.  I'd say 60 to 70% of off grid systems are not bonded correctly > that I've seen.  Just what Kirk said: it should only be bonded N-G at > one and only one spot.  Check sub panels too.  My record was seven N-G > bonds on one site.  It caused the shower to be energized; the customer > thought that was normal....(don't touch the shower head!?!).....That > site even had a N-G bond in the well pump wiring!  Took 3 days of > unF***ing that wiring to finally get it. > > It ain't safe, until it's right.  The GFCI is doing its job, and so is > the Magnum.  Now the electrician has to do his job. Unless you wired > the whole house, you're On to fix it. Especially off grid, I see an > amazing bunch of DIY garbage. Find out who did the original wiring.  > Probably not a pro. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > > On 12/16/2022 11:35 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: >> You may have neutral and ground connected at more than 1 location, >> meaning at the genset and in house panel, which means the ground is >> carrying current back to the generator in parallel with the neutral. >> >> I remember with some Honda portables we had to float the neutral at >> the genset or the inverter would trip the generator's GFI when trying >> to charge the batteries. >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >> RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> The easy answer is try another genset ! You have to be more >> specific, did it ever work? Is it new? etc. Good Luck ! >> >> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net >> text 209 813 0060* >> >> On 2022-12-16 10:04 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >>> Hi folks: >>> >>> We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a >>> MidNite Classic 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an >>> array of Trina TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with >>> the ME-RC50 and a HUP SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. >>> When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen >>> Set’s GFCI outlets trip.  Thus far we have verified the >>> connections are secure, assured that the gen set is grounded, >>> disconnected the jumper within the E-Panel between the ground >>> buss and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed the MNSPD’s from >>> the buss(s)…  Stumped now on what an appropriate next step >>> should be.  How do we get the PFC to function properly?  What >>> are we missing? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Chris Daum >>> Oasis Montana Inc. >>> 406-777-4309 or 4321 >>> 406-777-4309 fax >>> www.oasismontana.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't >>> work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> -- >> >> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar* >> >> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* >> >> */Celebrating our 31^st  Anniversary 1991-2022!!/* >> >> *www.vermont.solar* >> >> >> dba Vermont Solar Engineering >> >> 802.863.1202 >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dana at solarwork.com Sat Dec 17 11:28:20 2022 From: dana at solarwork.com (Dana Orzel) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 09:28:20 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BACKUP system revival Message-ID: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> Hey All a Cheery Season to you all! I inherited a backup system that had "failed". It was unwired, & poorly labeled. 1200 AHR AGM Battery - 1 Radian 8KW inverter - 200 amp Generac transfer switch - No solar - Feeding a 200 amp house panel. First I explained the there were too many loads for an 8KW inverter. It could & may overload the 8KW inverter. They said "it had worked fine for 5 years & they were OK with it as is please get it back up". Replaced the existing Eaton transfer switch as the Generac controller was shot, with a Generac 200 amp Xfer switch complete with controller & transfer switch. Rewired & had to recharge the 48 volt battery from 20volt back up to full with a pair of IOTA chargers in series. The original trigger was 3 wires from the Radian to the 12 volt & AUX output to the input on the Generac controller. These were disconnected on the Generac end. So no clue or labeling there. I called Outback & they called it Redneck engineering & send me a few articles to read. Has anyone configured a backup in this manner? All suggestions appreciated, thanks & wishing you all a safe & sane season! Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sat Dec 17 12:15:12 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 09:15:12 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BACKUP system revival In-Reply-To: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> References: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Dana: I have never incorporated a transfer switch with a battery inverter. The inverter’s internal transfer relay with the smarts it provides has always been preferred. I have of course used a transfer switch for generator-only systems. In some cases the generator is rated smaller than the utility feed and the user needs to live within the capabilities of the generator on the rare occasion when the utility is down. So your scenario brings up an interesting option: using a full 200 amp transfer switch means the Radian is not a 50 amp bottleneck when the utility is up. The Radian would become an ersatz generator connected to the gen input on the transfer switch. The wrinkle is: how do you provide an AC input to the Radian to charge batteries when the grid is up without triggering the transfer switch? When the Radian sees AC input it wants to through-transfer. There must be some way to configure the transfer switch to not trigger when the grid is up. Then a breaker from the main panel feeds the Radian, the Radian charges batteries and the Radian output goes nowhere. However when the grid does go down and the transfer happens you have a power flow loop which will shut down the Radian. I imagine there is some scheme of running the Radian input through a contractor that would be opened when the transfer switch connects the Radian output to the load. I think if you solve that you may have a working option. This does add a layer of complexity, however. Good luck. William Miller PS: You could use an outboard battery charger, however that is a waste of the very good battery charger built into the Radian Wm On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:28 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey All a Cheery Season to you all! > > > > I inherited a backup system that had “failed”. It was unwired, & poorly > labeled. > > > > 1200 AHR AGM Battery – 1 Radian 8KW inverter – 200 amp Generac transfer > switch – No solar - Feeding a 200 amp house panel. > > > > First I explained the there were too many loads for an 8KW inverter. It > could & may overload the 8KW inverter. They said “it had worked fine for 5 > years & they were OK with it as is please get it back up”… > > Replaced the existing Eaton transfer switch as the Generac controller was > shot, with a Generac 200 amp Xfer switch complete with controller & > transfer switch. > > Rewired & had to recharge the 48 volt battery from 20volt back up to full > with a pair of IOTA chargers in series. > > > > The original trigger was 3 wires from the Radian to the 12 volt & AUX > output to the input on the Generac controller. These were disconnected on > the Generac end. So no clue or labeling there. > > > > I called Outback & they called it Redneck engineering & send me a few > articles to read. > > > > Has anyone configured a backup in this manner? > > > > All suggestions appreciated, thanks & wishing you all a safe & sane season! > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Sat Dec 17 13:43:51 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:43:51 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BACKUP system revival In-Reply-To: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> References: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Cheers to all ! I had this problem for years but my Canadian friends finally listened to me/others and built a smart 200A panel for my clients. Not going to help your situation Dana but an FYI. When paired with Schneider Electric XW Pro inverters [3], the Backup Control Switch (BCS) automatically disconnects from the grid during an outage, allowing the system to provide backup power to the home. Certified to UL standards for USA, the Backup Control Switch is used for larger XW Pro systems requiring up to 200 A rated MID or service entrance installation. Part number: 865-BCS-2200 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-12-17 8:28 am, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hey All a Cheery Season to you all! > > I inherited a backup system that had "failed". It was unwired, & poorly > labeled. > > 1200 AHR AGM Battery - 1 Radian 8KW inverter - 200 amp Generac transfer > switch - No solar - Feeding a 200 amp house panel. > > First I explained the there were too many loads for an 8KW inverter. It > could & may overload the 8KW inverter. They said "it had worked fine > for 5 years & they were OK with it as is please get it back up"… > > Replaced the existing Eaton transfer switch as the Generac controller > was shot, with a Generac 200 amp Xfer switch complete with controller & > transfer switch. > > Rewired & had to recharge the 48 volt battery from 20volt back up to > full with a pair of IOTA chargers in series. > > The original trigger was 3 wires from the Radian to the 12 volt & AUX > output to the input on the Generac controller. These were disconnected > on the Generac end. So no clue or labeling there. > > I called Outback & they called it Redneck engineering & send me a few > articles to read. > > Has anyone configured a backup in this manner? > > All suggestions appreciated, thanks & wishing you all a safe & sane > season! > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com [1] www.solarwor.com [2] > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.greatsolarworks.com/ [2] http://www.solarwor.com [3] https://solar.se.com/us/en/product/xw-pro-120-240v/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sat Dec 17 16:31:23 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 15:31:23 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BACKUP system revival In-Reply-To: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> References: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: Hello and happy holidays. About 10 years ago, I had a similar problem with a similar customer who wanted a similar problem solved. The Generac auto transfer switch needed a 12 volt source. When the grid went down the generac transfer switch disconnected and waited about 10 to 15 seconds then started the generator. The customer wanted shorter outage transfer time. I used the inverter driving a dedicated load panel picking up the priority loads. When the generator started it would, then after 3 minutes, the inverter would drop out letting the generator carry all loads, and the inverter would go back to battery charging. (note: 8 kW for 15 to 20 minutes is only 2.7 kWh, but the battery system has to be fast, a LiFe at C/2 requires 16 kWh/ 300 AH@ 48V and a LA at C/6 requires 48 kWh or 1000 AH) This job also had solar, and it was DC coupled using a charge controller. It has been working for years, but has never had a major outage. The generator better be a good clean signal. also the grid outage has to be longer than 10 to 15 seconds for the generator to take over, and the customer wants if the generator on propane runs out of fuel to go to solar in my case. Many years ago I had an off grid customer with a 200 amp service I supplied using two Outback FX and an auto transformer. It worked for years. Good luck. On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 10:28 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hey All a Cheery Season to you all! > > > > I inherited a backup system that had “failed”. It was unwired, & poorly > labeled. > > > > 1200 AHR AGM Battery – 1 Radian 8KW inverter – 200 amp Generac transfer > switch – No solar - Feeding a 200 amp house panel. > > > > First I explained the there were too many loads for an 8KW inverter. It > could & may overload the 8KW inverter. They said “it had worked fine for 5 > years & they were OK with it as is please get it back up”… > > Replaced the existing Eaton transfer switch as the Generac controller was > shot, with a Generac 200 amp Xfer switch complete with controller & > transfer switch. > > Rewired & had to recharge the 48 volt battery from 20volt back up to full > with a pair of IOTA chargers in series. > > > > The original trigger was 3 wires from the Radian to the 12 volt & AUX > output to the input on the Generac controller. These were disconnected on > the Generac end. So no clue or labeling there. > > > > I called Outback & they called it Redneck engineering & send me a few > articles to read. > > > > Has anyone configured a backup in this manner? > > > > All suggestions appreciated, thanks & wishing you all a safe & sane season! > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com > * > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com > > *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * > > > > *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbassett2 at gmail.com Sat Dec 17 17:18:42 2022 From: bbassett2 at gmail.com (Bradley Bassett) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 14:18:42 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] BACKUP system revival In-Reply-To: References: <005d01d91234$93de2970$bb9a7c50$@solarwork.com> Message-ID: The Radian grid AC in is connected to the utility side of the transfer switch. You may need a service rated fused disconnect on that line, probably 60A. Then you can feed the AC out to the generator input on the transfer switch to power the main house panel. It's best and usually required by code (depending on UL1741 or UL9540) to use a manual transfer switch or adequate load control, or total house loads that the Radian can handle. Getting the aux on the Radian to start/stop the generator involves tracing the signal wires in the transfer switch (if automatic) and using those. Brad On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:44 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Dana: > > I have never incorporated a transfer switch with a battery inverter. The > inverter’s internal transfer relay with the smarts it provides has always > been preferred. > > I have of course used a transfer switch for generator-only systems. In > some cases the generator is rated smaller than the utility feed and the > user needs to live within the capabilities of the generator on the rare > occasion when the utility is down. > > So your scenario brings up an interesting option: using a full 200 amp > transfer switch means the Radian is not a 50 amp bottleneck when the > utility is up. The Radian would become an ersatz generator connected to the > gen input on the transfer switch. > > The wrinkle is: how do you provide an AC input to the Radian to charge > batteries when the grid is up without triggering the transfer switch? > > When the Radian sees AC input it wants to through-transfer. There must be > some way to configure the transfer switch to not trigger when the grid is > up. Then a breaker from the main panel feeds the Radian, the Radian charges > batteries and the Radian output goes nowhere. > > However when the grid does go down and the transfer happens you have a > power flow loop which will shut down the Radian. > > I imagine there is some scheme of running the Radian input through a > contractor that would be opened when the transfer switch connects the > Radian output to the load. I think if you solve that you may have a working > option. This does add a layer of complexity, however. > > Good luck. > > William Miller > > PS: You could use an outboard battery charger, however that is a waste of > the very good battery charger built into the Radian > > Wm > > On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:28 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Hey All a Cheery Season to you all! >> >> >> >> I inherited a backup system that had “failed”. It was unwired, & poorly >> labeled. >> >> >> >> 1200 AHR AGM Battery – 1 Radian 8KW inverter – 200 amp Generac transfer >> switch – No solar - Feeding a 200 amp house panel. >> >> >> >> First I explained the there were too many loads for an 8KW inverter. It >> could & may overload the 8KW inverter. They said “it had worked fine for 5 >> years & they were OK with it as is please get it back up”… >> >> Replaced the existing Eaton transfer switch as the Generac controller was >> shot, with a Generac 200 amp Xfer switch complete with controller & >> transfer switch. >> >> Rewired & had to recharge the 48 volt battery from 20volt back up to full >> with a pair of IOTA chargers in series. >> >> >> >> The original trigger was 3 wires from the Radian to the 12 volt & AUX >> output to the input on the Generac controller. These were disconnected on >> the Generac end. So no clue or labeling there. >> >> >> >> I called Outback & they called it Redneck engineering & send me a few >> articles to read. >> >> >> >> Has anyone configured a backup in this manner? >> >> >> >> All suggestions appreciated, thanks & wishing you all a safe & sane >> season! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com >> * >> >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> >> www.greatsolarworks.com www.solarwor.com >> >> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * >> >> >> >> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> -- > > William Miller > Miller Solar.com > 895-438-5600 > www.millersolar.com > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Sat Dec 17 18:34:05 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 16:34:05 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar lease questions Message-ID: <03027E2D-7BF1-414F-AAD1-49F261306A66@gmail.com> HI All, I”ve got a friend in hawaii, big island near Kona that is looking at a sun run lease and she’s asking me questions. I’m not that familiar with the electric rates nor the games that Sun Run is doing. They are pushing a 20 yr lease with the following system: 38 x 400 watt panels 2 x SE 3.8kw 2 x power wall it will offset 120% of her load loan is $398 month/ 20 yrs which is $95,000 My first really big question is thats 15.2kw on 7.6kw of inverter? That doesn’t sound right, 2 x DC/AC ratio? Does it make sense to have the batteries? And if you paid for the system outright, what would that be in Hawaii? Any and all help and advice is welcome, or if there any installers near there, that would also be helpful. thx jay From kirkh at vermont.solar Sat Dec 17 18:57:46 2022 From: kirkh at vermont.solar (Kirk Herander) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 18:57:46 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar lease questions In-Reply-To: <03027E2D-7BF1-414F-AAD1-49F261306A66@gmail.com> References: <03027E2D-7BF1-414F-AAD1-49F261306A66@gmail.com> Message-ID: So the SE 3800 x 2 are AC coupled to Tesla power walls? I thought PWs had built-in ac coupling. And is it correct there is no AC sell back to the grid in HI? Then batteries are a must. Sorry if these are dumb questions. We are recovering from a heavy wet snow here. On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 6:35 PM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI All, > > I”ve got a friend in hawaii, big island near Kona that is looking at a > sun run lease and she’s asking me questions. > > I’m not that familiar with the electric rates nor the games that Sun Run > is doing. > > They are pushing a 20 yr lease with the following system: > 38 x 400 watt panels > 2 x SE 3.8kw > 2 x power wall > it will offset 120% of her load > loan is $398 month/ 20 yrs which is $95,000 > > My first really big question is thats 15.2kw on 7.6kw of inverter? That > doesn’t sound right, 2 x DC/AC ratio? > Does it make sense to have the batteries? > > And if you paid for the system outright, what would that be in Hawaii? > > > Any and all help and advice is welcome, > or if there any installers near there, that would also be helpful. > > > thx > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Kirk Herander / **kirkh at vermont.solar * *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC* *Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!* *www.vermont.solar* dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marco at pvthawaii.com Sat Dec 17 19:09:07 2022 From: marco at pvthawaii.com (Marco Mangelsdorf) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 07:09:07 +0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar lease questions In-Reply-To: <03027E2D-7BF1-414F-AAD1-49F261306A66@gmail.com> References: <03027E2D-7BF1-414F-AAD1-49F261306A66@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey Jay, I've been doing PV on the Big Island since 2000. 15 kW STC DC on 7.6 kW AC is ridiculous and not atypical typical of Sunrun's crank-out-the-design-by-some-computer-program approach. When said program calculates a 120 percent offset, does that factor in power output clipping? I think not. Especially on the Kona side, which is sunnier than the east side of the island, such a DC-AC ratio is pretty much sure to clip A LOT I'm thinking. Our current residential electric rates here on Hawaii Island are between 42.5 to 47 cents/kWh. Aloha, marco On Sunday, December 18, 2022, jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI All, > > I”ve got a friend in hawaii, big island near Kona that is looking at a > sun run lease and she’s asking me questions. > > I’m not that familiar with the electric rates nor the games that Sun Run > is doing. > > They are pushing a 20 yr lease with the following system: > 38 x 400 watt panels > 2 x SE 3.8kw > 2 x power wall > it will offset 120% of her load > loan is $398 month/ 20 yrs which is $95,000 > > My first really big question is thats 15.2kw on 7.6kw of inverter? That > doesn’t sound right, 2 x DC/AC ratio? > Does it make sense to have the batteries? > > And if you paid for the system outright, what would that be in Hawaii? > > > Any and all help and advice is welcome, > or if there any installers near there, that would also be helpful. > > > thx > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sat Dec 17 19:56:45 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 18:56:45 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] solar lease questions In-Reply-To: <03027E2D-7BF1-414F-AAD1-49F261306A66@gmail.com> References: <03027E2D-7BF1-414F-AAD1-49F261306A66@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, not enough information. Does her grid allow export? Does she have a period of poor sun? What is her daily or monthly consumption? Is there an AC or DC limit on connected solar power? Will her AHJ or Utility allow line side tap? The system seems to be poorly designed. Power Walls are AC coupled, the large array would clip all day and only have advantage in the shoulders, a smaller array and bigger inverters? This design depends upon Utility and AHJ thank you have a nice day. On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 5:35 PM jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > HI All, > > I”ve got a friend in hawaii, big island near Kona that is looking at a > sun run lease and she’s asking me questions. > > I’m not that familiar with the electric rates nor the games that Sun Run > is doing. > > They are pushing a 20 yr lease with the following system: > 38 x 400 watt panels > 2 x SE 3.8kw > 2 x power wall > it will offset 120% of her load > loan is $398 month/ 20 yrs which is $95,000 > > My first really big question is thats 15.2kw on 7.6kw of inverter? That > doesn’t sound right, 2 x DC/AC ratio? > Does it make sense to have the batteries? > > And if you paid for the system outright, what would that be in Hawaii? > > > Any and all help and advice is welcome, > or if there any installers near there, that would also be helpful. > > > thx > jay > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Sun Dec 18 13:25:05 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 13:25:05 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> <76f08a8f0e57c9695502771d3ab23198@sti.net> Message-ID: If all else fails, cut the equipment ground prong from the attachment plug to the generator. The generator is internally grounded. You appear to have an internal ground in your system somewhere. --- On 2022-12-16 13:35, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote: > You may have neutral and ground connected at more than 1 location, meaning at the genset and in house panel, which means the ground is carrying current back to the generator in parallel with the neutral. > > I remember with some Honda portables we had to float the neutral at the genset or the inverter would trip the generator's GFI when trying to charge the batteries. > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > > The easy answer is try another genset ! You have to be more specific, did it ever work? Is it new? etc. Good Luck ! > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > On 2022-12-16 10:04 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi folks: > > We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a MidNite Classic 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an array of Trina TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with the ME-RC50 and a HUP SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. > When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen Set's GFCI outlets trip. Thus far we have verified the connections are secure, assured that the gen set is grounded, disconnected the jumper within the E-Panel between the ground buss and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed the MNSPD's from the buss(s)... Stumped now on what an appropriate next step should be. How do we get the PFC to function properly? What are we missing? > > Best, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com [1] > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Kirk Herander / kirkh at vermont.solar Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC _Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!_ www.vermont.solar [2] dba Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.oasismontana.com [2] https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vermontsolarnow.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9f0330d75a244870112408d685311841%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636842843233477645&sdata=0NjyuKeQbEK6245SNnk8X4XnP9Q%2B%2BqtvcALkdDghvk4%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Dec 18 14:03:52 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 13:03:52 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum MS4024 grief In-Reply-To: <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> References: <002801d909b8$463e70f0$d2bb52d0$@mindspring.com> <007c01d909be$361851e0$a248f5a0$@solartechvt.com> <006f01d91178$c86e2670$594a7350$@OasisMontana.com> Message-ID: Hi, happy holidays to all. Of course it sounds like a dual bonding situation. Inverter generators are normally floating neutral, rotating generators are normally neutral bonded internally in the generator. The GFCI detects a neutral current on the ground wire. If the generator is bonded internally it may be simplest to unbond at the generator. However you should bond ie ground the neutral downstream and only one bond. On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 12:06 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi folks: > > We have a new Magnum MS4024 mounted on an E-Panel using a MidNite Classic > 150 and Whiz-Bang JR with power coming from an array of Trina > TSM365-De06X-05(II) (three strings of three) with the ME-RC50 and a HUP > SolarOne 6-85-14/24 battery. > When we attempt to use the PFC (Power Factored Charger), the Gen Set’s > GFCI outlets trip. Thus far we have verified the connections are secure, > assured that the gen set is grounded, disconnected the jumper within the > E-Panel between the ground buss and neutral, checked AC voltages, removed > the MNSPD’s from the buss(s)… Stumped now on what an appropriate next step > should be. How do we get the PFC to function properly? What are we > missing? > > Best, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 or 4321 > 406-777-4309 fax > www.oasismontana.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palumbo131m at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 10:21:45 2022 From: palumbo131m at gmail.com (palumbo131m at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 10:21:45 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. Message-ID: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> Wrenches, I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old do-it-yourself customers question. His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power instead of a back up generator. He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont winters. He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. Thanks in advance and happy holidays, Dave Palumbo Formerly > Independent Power & Light Hyde Park, VT 802-371-8678 voice or text -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chadwaits at netzerosolar.net Mon Dec 19 10:27:52 2022 From: chadwaits at netzerosolar.net (Chad Waits) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:27:52 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I thought the SW needed a Grid Tie Interface (GTI) to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to sell to them... Chad Waits President - Net Zero Solar 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 Cell: (520) 270-4873 On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > > > I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am > reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old > do-it-yourself customers question. > > His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power > instead of a back up generator. > > He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to > reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont > winters. > > > > He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding > maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran > a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power > into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see > terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. > > He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. > > > > Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and > noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out > where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. > Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. > > > > My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the > inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double > throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. > > > > Thanks in advance and happy holidays, > > > > Dave Palumbo > > Formerly > Independent Power & Light > > Hyde Park, VT > > 802-371-8678 voice or text > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Mon Dec 19 10:48:08 2022 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 07:48:08 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: It sounds to me like Sell Mode is Enabled without the GTI... But it's been a long time since I played with an SW and GTI... Steve Higgins On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 7:29 AM Chad Waits via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I thought the SW needed a Grid Tie Interface (GTI) > > to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to > sell to them... > > Chad Waits > President - Net Zero Solar > 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 > Cell: (520) 270-4873 > > > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, >> >> >> >> I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am >> reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old >> do-it-yourself customers question. >> >> His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power >> instead of a back up generator. >> >> He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to >> reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont >> winters. >> >> >> >> He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding >> maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran >> a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power >> into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see >> terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. >> >> He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. >> >> >> >> Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and >> noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out >> where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. >> Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. >> >> >> >> My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the >> inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double >> throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance and happy holidays, >> >> >> >> Dave Palumbo >> >> Formerly > Independent Power & Light >> >> Hyde Park, VT >> >> 802-371-8678 voice or text >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tump at swnl.net Mon Dec 19 10:50:48 2022 From: tump at swnl.net (Tump) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 10:50:48 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have neve heard that but I would connect the utility to the AC1 input as the window is quite narrow then the grid. The GTI was a piss poor way for trace to regulate “sell” current would ramp up & back down all day long. NOT necessary. BUT then again that old duffer; SH probably has more brain cells left then I do. > On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches wrote: > > I thought the SW needed a Grid Tie Interface (GTI) to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to sell to them... > > Chad Waits > President - Net Zero Solar > 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 > Cell: (520) 270-4873 > > > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches > wrote: > Wrenches, > > > > I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old do-it-yourself customers question. > > His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power instead of a back up generator. > > He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont winters. > > > > He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. > > He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. > > > > Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. > > > > My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. > > > > Thanks in advance and happy holidays, > > > > Dave Palumbo > > Formerly > Independent Power & Light > > Hyde Park, VT > > 802-371-8678 voice or text > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Tump 3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From toddcory at finestplanet.com Mon Dec 19 11:13:25 2022 From: toddcory at finestplanet.com (toddcory at finestplanet.com) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:13:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1671466405.59124439@webmail.finestplanet.com> If the grid is wired to AC2, then the inverter can charge off off that source but not sell to it. Todd On Monday, December 19, 2022 7:50am, "Tump via RE-wrenches" said: I have neve heard that but I would connect the utility to the AC1 input as the window is quite narrow then the grid. The GTI was a piss poor way for trace to regulate “sell” current would ramp up & back down all day long. NOT necessary. BUT then again that old duffer; SH probably has more brain cells left then I do. On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches <[ re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org )> wrote: I thought the SW needed a [ Grid Tie Interface (GTI) ]( https://www.altestore.com/store/media/pdfs/xantrex/Grid%20Tie%20Interface%20(GTI)%20Data%20Sheet.pdf ) to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to sell to them... Chad WaitsPresident - Net Zero Solar 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 Cell: (520) 270-4873 On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches <[ re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org )> wrote: Wrenches, I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old do-it-yourself customers question. His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power instead of a back up generator. He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont winters. He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. Thanks in advance and happy holidays, Dave Palumbo Formerly > Independent Power & Light Hyde Park, VT 802-371-8678 voice or text _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: [ http://re-wrenches.org ]( http://re-wrenches.org/ ) List Address: [ RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ) Change listserver email address & settings:[ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ]( http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ) There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:[ https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ ]( https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ )[ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ]( http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ) List rules & etiquette:[ http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm ]( http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm ) Check out or update participant bios:[ http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ]( http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ )_______________________________________________List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: [ http://re-wrenches.org ]( http://re-wrenches.org )List Address: [ RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org ]( mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org )Change listserver email address & settings:[ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org ]( http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org )There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [ Tump ]( blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.net )[ 3391 at gmail.com ]( mailto:3391 at gmail.com ) [ www.SWNL.net ]( blocked::http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/ ) Solarwinds Northernlights Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 Blair "TUMP" May ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Mon Dec 19 11:17:52 2022 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:17:52 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: <1671466405.59124439@webmail.finestplanet.com> References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> <1671466405.59124439@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: Great Point, Todd... Todd is correct. Wire the Utility to the AC2 Input (Generator), and it won't be able to sell at all. Steve Higgins. On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:14 AM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > If the grid is wired to AC2, then the inverter can charge off off that > source but not sell to it. > > Todd > > > > > > > > On Monday, December 19, 2022 7:50am, "Tump via RE-wrenches" < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> said: > > I have neve heard that but I would connect the utility to the AC1 input as > the window is quite narrow then the grid. The GTI was a piss poor way for > trace to regulate “sell” current would ramp up & back down all day long. > NOT necessary. BUT then again that old duffer; SH probably has more brain > cells left then I do. > > On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I thought the SW needed a Grid Tie Interface (GTI) > > to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to > sell to them... > Chad Waits > President - Net Zero Solar > 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 > Cell: (520) 270-4873 > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, >> >> >> >> I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am >> reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old >> do-it-yourself customers question. >> >> His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power >> instead of a back up generator. >> >> He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to >> reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont >> winters. >> >> >> >> He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding >> maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran >> a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power >> into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see >> terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. >> >> He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. >> >> >> >> Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and >> noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out >> where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. >> Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. >> >> >> >> My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the >> inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double >> throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance and happy holidays, >> >> >> >> Dave Palumbo >> >> Formerly > Independent Power & Light >> >> Hyde Park, VT >> >> 802-371-8678 voice or text >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 11:29:46 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 09:29:46 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03D186D8-8DA2-466A-B304-073163D9595C@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at surrette.com Mon Dec 19 11:37:31 2022 From: steve at surrette.com (Steve Higgins) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:37:31 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: <03D186D8-8DA2-466A-B304-073163D9595C@gmail.com> References: <03D186D8-8DA2-466A-B304-073163D9595C@gmail.com> Message-ID: The old "Pre-GTI" SWs could still sell... The reason that they temporarily lost their (Early 2000s) UL Rating, it was found that in the right conditiones they could "Leak" Current/Voltage when connected to the grid. Moving the Grid input to the Gen (AC2) input should prevent it from being able to sell. Steve Higgins. On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:30 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > The older versions of the SW didnt have the GTI plug or need it. > > What I find curious is what was said about the lineman that they measured > current. > If the lines were off, no way that inverter could power it up or even the > transformer. > > I’d recommend checking current just to confirm what’s going on. > > Jay > > > > On Dec 19, 2022, at 9:18 AM, Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  > Great Point, Todd... Todd is correct. Wire the Utility to the AC2 Input > (Generator), and it won't be able to sell at all. > > Steve Higgins. > > > > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:14 AM Todd Cory via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> If the grid is wired to AC2, then the inverter can charge off off that >> source but not sell to it. >> >> Todd >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, December 19, 2022 7:50am, "Tump via RE-wrenches" < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> said: >> >> I have neve heard that but I would connect the utility to the AC1 input >> as the window is quite narrow then the grid. The GTI was a piss poor way >> for trace to regulate “sell” current would ramp up & back down all day >> long. NOT necessary. BUT then again that old duffer; SH probably has more >> brain cells left then I do. >> >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> I thought the SW needed a Grid Tie Interface (GTI) >> >> to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to >> sell to them... >> Chad Waits >> President - Net Zero Solar >> 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 >> Cell: (520) 270-4873 >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Wrenches, >>> >>> >>> >>> I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am >>> reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old >>> do-it-yourself customers question. >>> >>> His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power >>> instead of a back up generator. >>> >>> He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to >>> reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont >>> winters. >>> >>> >>> >>> He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding >>> maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran >>> a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power >>> into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see >>> terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. >>> >>> He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. >>> >>> >>> >>> Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and >>> noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out >>> where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. >>> Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. >>> >>> >>> >>> My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the >>> inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double >>> throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks in advance and happy holidays, >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave Palumbo >>> >>> Formerly > Independent Power & Light >>> >>> Hyde Park, VT >>> >>> 802-371-8678 voice or text >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* >> * 207-832-7574 Cl. >> 610-517-8401 * >> *Blair "TUMP" May* >> >> >> * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* >> >> >> * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* >> >> >> >> >> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dan at foxfire-energy.com Mon Dec 19 12:20:35 2022 From: dan at foxfire-energy.com (Foxfire Energy) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 17:20:35 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <79D43457-F118-46F0-972B-E905CCEE01F8@foxfire-energy.com> I’m thinking the simple fix is to just make sure the breaker between the grid and inverter is off when you’re running the generator.. JMHO.. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Tump via RE-wrenches wrote:  I have neve heard that but I would connect the utility to the AC1 input as the window is quite narrow then the grid. The GTI was a piss poor way for trace to regulate “sell” current would ramp up & back down all day long. NOT necessary. BUT then again that old duffer; SH probably has more brain cells left then I do. On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches > wrote: I thought the SW needed a Grid Tie Interface (GTI) to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to sell to them... Chad Waits President - Net Zero Solar 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 Cell: (520) 270-4873 [https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4zMcUl5EhjemfzUnd46zPDuJwyFURzd7bNuklolvQ37rwiNtc0YPbqwUUg3S1lnCs0T7PyfxVg] On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wrenches, I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old do-it-yourself customers question. His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power instead of a back up generator. He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont winters. He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. Thanks in advance and happy holidays, Dave Palumbo Formerly > Independent Power & Light Hyde Park, VT 802-371-8678 voice or text _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Tump3391 at gmail.com www.SWNL.net Solarwinds Northernlights Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 Blair "TUMP" May ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.blittersdorf at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 13:03:47 2022 From: john.blittersdorf at gmail.com (John Blittersdorf) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 13:03:47 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: <79D43457-F118-46F0-972B-E905CCEE01F8@foxfire-energy.com> References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> <79D43457-F118-46F0-972B-E905CCEE01F8@foxfire-energy.com> Message-ID: Todd has the right answer. The AC2 input will not sell to the grid as you would not want to sell to the generator. On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 12:21 PM Foxfire Energy via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I’m thinking the simple fix is to just make sure the breaker between the > grid and inverter is off when you’re running the generator.. JMHO.. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Tump via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >  I have neve heard that but I would connect the utility to the AC1 input > as the window is quite narrow then the grid. The GTI was a piss poor way > for trace to regulate “sell” current would ramp up & back down all day > long. NOT necessary. BUT then again that old duffer; SH probably has more > brain cells left then I do. > > On Dec 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > I thought the SW needed a Grid Tie Interface (GTI) > > to keep current from leaking out to the grid even if you didn;t want to > sell to them... > > Chad Waits > President - Net Zero Solar > 945 W. Silverlake, Tucson, AZ 85713 > Cell: (520) 270-4873 > > > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> Wrenches, >> >> >> >> I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am >> reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old >> do-it-yourself customers question. >> >> His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power >> instead of a back up generator. >> >> He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to >> reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont >> winters. >> >> >> >> He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding >> maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran >> a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power >> into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see >> terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. >> >> He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. >> >> >> >> Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and >> noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out >> where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. >> Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. >> >> >> >> My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the >> inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double >> throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance and happy holidays, >> >> >> >> Dave Palumbo >> >> Formerly > Independent Power & Light >> >> Hyde Park, VT >> >> 802-371-8678 voice or text >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > *Tump3391 at gmail.com <3391 at gmail.com>* *www.SWNL.net* > Solarwinds Northernlights > * Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California* > * 207-832-7574 Cl. > 610-517-8401 * > *Blair "TUMP" May* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** * * > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer"* > > > * ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** ** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Allan at sindelarsolar.com Mon Dec 19 16:58:56 2022 From: Allan at sindelarsolar.com (Sindelar Solar) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 14:58:56 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: <1671466405.59124439@webmail.finestplanet.com> References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> <1671466405.59124439@webmail.finestplanet.com> Message-ID: <21d96a70-d663-ad42-d263-e87f1b39d806@sindelarsolar.com> Todd is correct. This solution is simple and works. You'll still want a switch or breaker on the input. Allan On 12/19/2022 9:13 AM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches wrote: > > If the grid is wired to AC2, then the inverter can charge off off that > source but not sell to it. > Todd > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 8:21 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Wrenches, > > I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now > and I am reaching out for help as to recommending a solution > to an old do-it-yourself customers question. > > His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using > grid power instead of a back up generator. > > He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just > trying to reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our > mostly sunless Vermont winters. > > He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their > expanding maple sugaring operation located next to their > house. At that time they ran a 115Vac circuit (grid power) > over to their house and connected grid power into AC Hot In > terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see > terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. > > He has the Trace programmed for float mode  not sell mode. > > Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main > road and noticed a small amount of current flowing into the > grid and figured out where it was coming from. The utility did > not immediately shut him down. Just told him to correct the > problem. He is asking me for advice. > > My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely > from the inverter power and to feed both power sources into a > double pole double throw transfer switch. What other options > should be considered. > > Thanks in advance and happy holidays, > > Dave Palumbo > > Formerly > Independent Power & Light > > Hyde Park, VT > > 802-371-8678 voice or text > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Mon Dec 19 18:47:20 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 15:47:20 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old Trace SW inverter connected to the grid. In-Reply-To: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> References: <017201d913bd$9b3a5ba0$d1af12e0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: David: I investigated a grid-connected SW system in 2017. There were no GTI units in place. The sell function was disabled. The utility reported that back-feed was occurring. Upon further investigation it turns out the SW inverters were selling about 1 amp 24/7. I can’t remember if it was 1 amp each or in total. Of course this unexpected back-feed is not acceptable. It is possibly the cause of the utility complaint in this case. I believe the GTI units were invented to prevent this uncontrollable back-feed. I hope this information is helpful. William Miller On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 7:22 AM David Palumbo via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenches, > > > > I have been retired from doing solar installs for 10 years now and I am > reaching out for help as to recommending a solution to an old > do-it-yourself customers question. > > His solar system that was formerly off-grid and is now using grid power > instead of a back up generator. > > He had/has no intention of doing a net-metered system. Just trying to > reduce dependance on a fossil fuel genset during our mostly sunless Vermont > winters. > > > > He says that he brought in power a few years ago to run their expanding > maple sugaring operation located next to their house. At that time they ran > a 115Vac circuit (grid power) over to their house and connected grid power > into AC Hot In terminal #! in their Trace SW 2512. This is correct as I see > terminal #2 is labeled for generator power. > > He has the Trace programmed for float mode not sell mode. > > > > Their local utility was working on the line nearby on the main road and > noticed a small amount of current flowing into the grid and figured out > where it was coming from. The utility did not immediately shut him down. > Just told him to correct the problem. He is asking me for advice. > > > > My first inclination is to separate the grid power completely from the > inverter power and to feed both power sources into a double pole double > throw transfer switch. What other options should be considered. > > > > Thanks in advance and happy holidays, > > > > Dave Palumbo > > Formerly > Independent Power & Light > > Hyde Park, VT > > 802-371-8678 voice or text > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- William Miller Miller Solar.com 895-438-5600 www.millersolar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at sungineersolar.com Tue Dec 20 16:17:52 2022 From: dave at sungineersolar.com (Dave Tedeyan) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2022 16:17:52 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase consumption data Message-ID: Hi All, I have a system where the solar panels (with Enphase IQ8) are on a detached garage and the IQ gateway is in the house. The gateway is in the house so that it can gather consumption data, and there is an internet connection there. There are other loads in the garage, so it is impossible to get a production CT to the gateway that will register only the solar production. When I go through the commissioning in the installer toolkit, I can verify that the consumption CT's are installed and working properly. I've been having a tough time getting consumption and production data to display correctly in Enlighten because the production meter is not enabled. After many calls to tech support we finally have it set up that the production meter is enabled, but Enlighten is displaying the measurements from the microinverters. Then when the solar is backfeeding, the CT's register a negative value (as it should) and flags an error message. I have finally been able to get Enphase to just make that message go away. The last piece of the puzzle, which I do not know yet is: Does anyone know whether the consumption data will properly take into account the production data from the microinverters, or will it try to use the production data from the production CT which is now enabled, even though Enlighten displays the microinverter production data. I hope that all made sense. I am surprised that this is such an issue with Enlighten, so was just wondering if others have had better experiences when there is consumption CT's but no production CT's. Cheers, Dave -- [image: Logo] Dave Tedeyan, P.E. Owner | Sungineer Solar p: he | him | his a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 w: www.sungineersolar.com c: (607) 288-2898 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at hurshtown.com Tue Dec 20 21:11:35 2022 From: mark at hurshtown.com (Mark Downing) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 02:11:35 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Conext Gateway question - need to reset to factory default Message-ID: I set the Admin password and promptly failed to write it down. I can't reset the password to default remotely unless I'm logged in as admin. I've tried the pinhole reset with no luck. The manual says to hold the power button 12 seconds; no luck. No beeps either. Any suggestions? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com Wed Dec 21 07:07:46 2022 From: jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com (Jason Szumlanski) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 07:07:46 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase consumption data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is my understanding that you cannot have the consumption CTs enabled without the production CT enabled. When the solar is connected on the load side of the consumption CTs as it is in this case, the production CTs are required to make the math work. It cannot use the microinverter readings for the purposes of negating the production from the consumption because the microinverter readings are simply averages of power production over time, not instantaneous/concurrent readings. Let me know if you find a workaround because I run into this scenario and we just decline to install consumption monitoring altogether. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Hi All, > > I have a system where the solar panels (with Enphase IQ8) are on a > detached garage and the IQ gateway is in the house. The gateway is in the > house so that it can gather consumption data, and there is an internet > connection there. There are other loads in the garage, so it is impossible > to get a production CT to the gateway that will register only the solar > production. When I go through the commissioning in the installer toolkit, I > can verify that the consumption CT's are installed and working properly. > I've been having a tough time getting consumption and production data to > display correctly in Enlighten because the production meter is not enabled. > > After many calls to tech support we finally have it set up that the > production meter is enabled, but Enlighten is displaying the measurements > from the microinverters. Then when the solar is backfeeding, the CT's > register a negative value (as it should) and flags an error message. I have > finally been able to get Enphase to just make that message go away. The > last piece of the puzzle, which I do not know yet is: Does anyone know > whether the consumption data will properly take into account the production > data from the microinverters, or will it try to use the production data > from the production CT which is now enabled, even though Enlighten displays > the microinverter production data. > > I hope that all made sense. I am surprised that this is such an issue with > Enlighten, so was just wondering if others have had better experiences when > there is consumption CT's but no production CT's. > > Cheers, > Dave > > -- > [image: Logo] > Dave Tedeyan, P.E. > Owner | Sungineer Solar > p: he | him | his > a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850 > w: www.sungineersolar.com > c: (607) 288-2898 > _______________________________________________ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allsolarjeremy at msn.com Wed Dec 21 08:23:36 2022 From: allsolarjeremy at msn.com (Jeremy Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 13:23:36 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW Grid Support or? Message-ID: I’ve inherited a XW. 6048 system that we just installed a LiFePO4 battery bank with. Has anyone successfully used Grid Support with Sell disabled? This system never had an Interconnection Agreement with the utility co so it cannot sell. Currently we have : AC charger on , Multi Stage PV input Sell disabled Grid Support disabled There is no TOU metering. Regards, Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / Design All Solar, Inc. 1453 M St. Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. From mark at hurshtown.com Wed Dec 21 09:33:40 2022 From: mark at hurshtown.com (Mark Downing) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 14:33:40 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Recall: Conext Gateway question - need to reset to factory default Message-ID: Mark Downing would like to recall the message, "Conext Gateway question - need to reset to factory default". From offgridsolar at sti.net Fri Dec 23 16:44:29 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2022 13:44:29 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW Grid Support or? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3046fc65bb43a3220fc46115550737d5@sti.net> It can be done but it is not an easy job. You are 2 generations of XW back. XW+ was good at this and XW pro was designed for this along with being able to charge based on Soc (from the BMS) as well as voltage. Is this an insured home? You might need a permit as this has to be legal for your area. Out west of you is what we do. Good Luck ! The main impact of Rule 21 for solar installers is that any of your installations in the state of California must now use Rule-compliant inverters. In effect, these are smart inverters that have been certified as UL 1741-SA or that are listed on the California Energy Commission's compliant inverter database. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-12-21 5:23 am, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > I've inherited a XW. 6048 system that we just installed a LiFePO4 > battery bank with. > Has anyone successfully used Grid Support with Sell disabled? > This system never had an Interconnection Agreement with the utility co > so it cannot sell. > Currently we have : > AC charger on , Multi Stage > PV input > Sell disabled > Grid Support disabled > There is no TOU metering. > > Regards, > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St. > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william at millersolar.com Sun Dec 25 13:58:23 2022 From: william at millersolar.com (William Miller) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 10:58:23 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations Message-ID: Wrenched: Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or substitute the winter festivity of your choice. I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his home. He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his building permit The day he got his final inspection the utility contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to Operate letter. Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get about 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW. How is it that the back-feed exceeds the transformer rating? I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and how to fight it. Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Dec 25 15:36:45 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 14:36:45 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW Grid Support or? In-Reply-To: <3046fc65bb43a3220fc46115550737d5@sti.net> References: <3046fc65bb43a3220fc46115550737d5@sti.net> Message-ID: Assuming this is a zero instantaneous no export, not on the daily or monthly. I have installed a few XW, and XW PRO inverters, however, I have never done an instantaneous no export project on the entire service. The problem is the load. Ideally you want to monitor the service entrance and control off the service current. This would mean the total current would have to pass through the XW. However, this would be a very limited electrical use household, like an off-grid house. For the No Export to work on a more normal load, you want maximum current possible to pass through the XW (where the control is) to the priority circuit panel, (you will want to measure these loads allowing for non-coincidence). You will want to charge the batteries from solar only and deplete the battery to about 15% SOC. What you want to do is sell all the solar that comes in, do not charge from the grid, to reduce the electric bill the maximum amount. I use an Egauge for measuring these loads. (PS) the XW has no monitoring of the LiFe battery so use the charge controller Voltage to maintain SOC. (PS) you may have to use the generator support mode input. I do not remember. Sorry about my poor writing ability, hope this helps. On Fri, Dec 23, 2022 at 3:45 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote: > It can be done but it is not an easy job. You are 2 generations of XW back. > > XW+ was good at this and XW pro was designed for this > along with being able to charge based on Soc (from the BMS) as well as voltage. > > Is this an insured home? You might need a permit as this has to be legal for your area. Out west of you is what we do. Good Luck ! > > The main impact of Rule 21 for solar installers is that *any of your installations in the state of California must now use Rule-compliant inverters*. > In effect, these are smart inverters that have been certified as UL 1741-SA or that are listed on the California Energy Commission's compliant inverter > database. > > > > > *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net > text 209 813 0060* > > > On 2022-12-21 5:23 am, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote: > > > I’ve inherited a XW. 6048 system that we just installed a LiFePO4 battery > bank with. > Has anyone successfully used Grid Support with Sell disabled? > This system never had an Interconnection Agreement with the utility co so > it cannot sell. > Currently we have : > AC charger on , Multi Stage > PV input > Sell disabled > Grid Support disabled > There is no TOU metering. > > > Regards, > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation / Design > All Solar, Inc. > 1453 M St. > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Sun Dec 25 16:14:00 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 15:14:00 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is common practice for the utility to overload the transformer a lot for the potential load. They expect no one will use their service at maximum, furthermore, they expect non coincidence of loads. Look at the transformer most have a label as to the kW or the unit, and the utility should give you that number along with the impedance. Note I have had area engineers not understand that solar reduces the load on the transformer. They have two concerns, you will overload and you will raise the voltage to other customers. Overload is ridiculous; the transformer must be at least 20 kW if a 15 kW concern is valid. However, raising the voltage is not. If all the customers shut off their power, the voltage would rise to the inverter limit,and/or feed current back on the distribution line raising up/downstream customers voltage. I have had this problem, on three occasions discussions with the utility upper engineering, not local engineer, i prevailed, one case I did not. In one cast utility allowed connection and put a voltage monitor on secondary voltage, then later allowed permanent connection.. Good luck On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Wrenched: > > > > Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or > substitute the winter festivity of your choice. > > > > I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his home. > He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his building permit > The day he got his final inspection the utility contacted him and claimed > "The aggregate generation exceeds the identified transformer rating" and > refused him a Permission to Operate letter. > > > > Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get about > 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems on his > secondary we get about 16.5 kW. How is it that the back-feed exceeds the > transformer rating? > > > > I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and how > to fight it. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scot.arey at solarcentex.com Sun Dec 25 17:13:58 2022 From: scot.arey at solarcentex.com (scot.arey at solarcentex.com) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 16:13:58 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <98B374C5-D551-444F-88DD-9672F305B5B3@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From garrison.rie at gmail.com Sun Dec 25 17:21:08 2022 From: garrison.rie at gmail.com (Garrison) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2022 16:21:08 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Mon Dec 26 08:17:15 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 08:17:15 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> Wouldn't the microinverters shut down if the voltage rose?  They wouldn't be able to raise voltage about PUC/DPU limits I would think. They would shut down on high voltage. I am saying this because of an experience this fall where our infamous Block Island Power Company raised the taps on a local xfmr due to their "secret heat pump program" that was dragging down local voltage. They claimed solar was a burden, but were quiet on the load building program they embarked upon without any disclosure.   When the cooling loads disappeared, the voltage went above our grid tied systems set points and they shut down.  We told the utility they had a high voltage problem and they adjusted the taps.  Of course they did not acknowledge or thank us.  It seems our little coop which is now head from a guy from the Vermont Electric Coop is taking an old utility approach instead of cooperation, integration and maximization of performance and economics. I'd think you be able to ask how the supply can raise the voltage when there is so much diversified load on the same device.   Electricians have to do a diversity calculation, and I know a utility has to conduct them as part of these studies. Worse case of no load and all generation is such a low probability that to design for it, when/if it occurred, is not a danger and of no material consequence makes little sense. But, we've been dealing with that ever since this person arrived in our neck of the woods. Chris Warfel On 12/25/2022 5:21 PM, Garrison via RE-wrenches wrote: > Hi William, > > One possible path forward would be to ask the utility co what AC > inverter capacity would be allowed. Maybe the solution would be to > unplug a micro or two if you are just over the limit. Even better, > maybe they would allow you set an export limit on the micros you have > installed. > > I had a recent situation where a 40kW DC system had exceeded a utility > transformer by only 2kW AC, so a simple redesign avoided an $8k > invoice from the utility. The utility was not transparent about this > option at first and only made it clear after some persistence. > > Good luck, > > Garrison Riegel > Celestar Solar > >> On Dec 25, 2022, at 3:14 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> It is common practice for the utility to overload the transformer a >> lot for the potential load.  They expect no one will use their >> service at maximum, furthermore, they expect non coincidence of >> loads.  Look at the transformer most have a label as to the kW or the >> unit, and the utility should give you that number along with the >> impedance.  Note I have had area engineers not understand that solar >> reduces the load on the transformer.  They have two concerns, you >> will overload and you will raise the voltage to other customers.  >> Overload is ridiculous; the transformer must be at least 20 kW if a >> 15 kW concern is valid.  However, raising the voltage is not.  If all >> the customers shut off their power, the voltage would rise to the >> inverter limit,and/or feed current back on the distribution line >> raising up/downstream customers voltage.  I have had this problem, on >> three occasions discussions with the utility upper engineering, not >> local engineer, i prevailed, one case I did not.   In one cast >> utility allowed connection and put a voltage monitor on secondary >> voltage, then later allowed permanent connection..   Good luck >> >> On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >> Wrenched: >> >> Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or >> substitute the winter festivity of your choice. >> >> I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his >> home.  He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his >> building permit  The day he got his final inspection the utility >> contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the >> identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to >> Operate letter. >> >> Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we >> get about 336 kW of potential consumption.  Adding the grid-tied >> systems on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW.  How is it that >> the back-feed exceeds the transformer rating? >> >> I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation >> and how to fight it. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> William Miller >> >> Miller Solar >> >> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >> >> 805-438-5600 >> >> www.millersolar.com >> >> CA Lic. 773985 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >> try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cwarfel.vcf Type: text/vcard Size: 203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Mon Dec 26 09:40:12 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:40:12 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> Message-ID: <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> Morning all. Just got a call from a customer with a radian and fortress battery that caught fire. Has anyone had any issues with either unit?? We have numerous systems with combos of both and no issues. System has been in place for well over a year, climate controlled garage and system has worked well. Did a BMS board replacement earlier this year. Any and all help appreciated. Thank you Peter Giroux ASAE From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 8:17 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Christopher Warfel Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations Wouldn't the microinverters shut down if the voltage rose? They wouldn't be able to raise voltage about PUC/DPU limits I would think. They would shut down on high voltage. I am saying this because of an experience this fall where our infamous Block Island Power Company raised the taps on a local xfmr due to their "secret heat pump program" that was dragging down local voltage. They claimed solar was a burden, but were quiet on the load building program they embarked upon without any disclosure. When the cooling loads disappeared, the voltage went above our grid tied systems set points and they shut down. We told the utility they had a high voltage problem and they adjusted the taps. Of course they did not acknowledge or thank us. It seems our little coop which is now head from a guy from the Vermont Electric Coop is taking an old utility approach instead of cooperation, integration and maximization of performance and economics. I'd think you be able to ask how the supply can raise the voltage when there is so much diversified load on the same device. Electricians have to do a diversity calculation, and I know a utility has to conduct them as part of these studies. Worse case of no load and all generation is such a low probability that to design for it, when/if it occurred, is not a danger and of no material consequence makes little sense. But, we've been dealing with that ever since this person arrived in our neck of the woods. Chris Warfel On 12/25/2022 5:21 PM, Garrison via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi William, One possible path forward would be to ask the utility co what AC inverter capacity would be allowed. Maybe the solution would be to unplug a micro or two if you are just over the limit. Even better, maybe they would allow you set an export limit on the micros you have installed. I had a recent situation where a 40kW DC system had exceeded a utility transformer by only 2kW AC, so a simple redesign avoided an $8k invoice from the utility. The utility was not transparent about this option at first and only made it clear after some persistence. Good luck, Garrison Riegel Celestar Solar On Dec 25, 2022, at 3:14 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:  It is common practice for the utility to overload the transformer a lot for the potential load. They expect no one will use their service at maximum, furthermore, they expect non coincidence of loads. Look at the transformer most have a label as to the kW or the unit, and the utility should give you that number along with the impedance. Note I have had area engineers not understand that solar reduces the load on the transformer. They have two concerns, you will overload and you will raise the voltage to other customers. Overload is ridiculous; the transformer must be at least 20 kW if a 15 kW concern is valid. However, raising the voltage is not. If all the customers shut off their power, the voltage would rise to the inverter limit,and/or feed current back on the distribution line raising up/downstream customers voltage. I have had this problem, on three occasions discussions with the utility upper engineering, not local engineer, i prevailed, one case I did not. In one cast utility allowed connection and put a voltage monitor on secondary voltage, then later allowed permanent connection.. Good luck On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wrenched: Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or substitute the winter festivity of your choice. I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his home. He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his building permit The day he got his final inspection the utility contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to Operate letter. Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get about 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW. How is it that the back-feed exceeds the transformer rating? I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and how to fight it. Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From darylsolar1 at gmail.com Mon Dec 26 11:31:24 2022 From: darylsolar1 at gmail.com (Darryl Thayer) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 10:31:24 -0600 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Hello, my first thought is the BMS board, on the battery reaching near full charge the BMS does a top balance where the board diverts the current around fully charged cells and continues to charge cells not fully charged. this diversion current generates heat. that the board must dissipate. When all cells are charged the heat depends upon charging voltage. Is the radian set at too high a charging voltage? Also, if a cell fails that cell will overheat and the board will overheat. . On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 8:40 AM Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Morning all. Just got a call from a customer with a radian and fortress > battery that caught fire. Has anyone had any issues with either unit?? We > have numerous systems with combos of both and no issues. System has been in > place for well over a year, climate controlled garage and system has worked > well. Did a BMS board replacement earlier this year. > > > > Any and all help appreciated. > > > > Thank you > > Peter Giroux > > ASAE > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2022 8:17 AM > *To:* re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Christopher Warfel > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations > > > > Wouldn't the microinverters shut down if the voltage rose? They wouldn't > be able to raise voltage about PUC/DPU limits I would think. They would > shut down on high voltage. I am saying this because of an experience this > fall where our infamous Block Island Power Company raised the taps on a > local xfmr due to their "secret heat pump program" that was dragging down > local voltage. They claimed solar was a burden, but were quiet on the load > building program they embarked upon without any disclosure. When the > cooling loads disappeared, the voltage went above our grid tied systems set > points and they shut down. We told the utility they had a high voltage > problem and they adjusted the taps. Of course they did not acknowledge or > thank us. It seems our little coop which is now head from a guy from the > Vermont Electric Coop is taking an old utility approach instead of > cooperation, integration and maximization of performance and economics. > > I'd think you be able to ask how the supply can raise the voltage when > there is so much diversified load on the same device. Electricians have > to do a diversity calculation, and I know a utility has to conduct them as > part of these studies. Worse case of no load and all generation is such a > low probability that to design for it, when/if it occurred, is not a danger > and of no material consequence makes little sense. But, we've been dealing > with that ever since this person arrived in our neck of the woods. > > > > Chris Warfel > > > > > > On 12/25/2022 5:21 PM, Garrison via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Hi William, > > > > One possible path forward would be to ask the utility co what AC inverter > capacity would be allowed. Maybe the solution would be to unplug a micro or > two if you are just over the limit. Even better, maybe they would allow you > set an export limit on the micros you have installed. > > > > I had a recent situation where a 40kW DC system had exceeded a utility > transformer by only 2kW AC, so a simple redesign avoided an $8k invoice > from the utility. The utility was not transparent about this option at > first and only made it clear after some persistence. > > > > Good luck, > > > > Garrison Riegel > > Celestar Solar > > > > On Dec 25, 2022, at 3:14 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches > > wrote: > >  > > It is common practice for the utility to overload the transformer a lot > for the potential load. They expect no one will use their service at > maximum, furthermore, they expect non coincidence of loads. Look at the > transformer most have a label as to the kW or the unit, and the utility > should give you that number along with the impedance. Note I have had area > engineers not understand that solar reduces the load on the transformer. > They have two concerns, you will overload and you will raise the voltage > to other customers. Overload is ridiculous; the transformer must be at > least 20 kW if a 15 kW concern is valid. However, raising the voltage is > not. If all the customers shut off their power, the voltage would rise to > the inverter limit,and/or feed current back on the distribution line > raising up/downstream customers voltage. I have had this problem, on three > occasions discussions with the utility upper engineering, not local > engineer, i prevailed, one case I did not. In one cast utility allowed > connection and put a voltage monitor on secondary voltage, then later > allowed permanent connection.. Good luck > > > > On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Wrenched: > > > > Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or > substitute the winter festivity of your choice. > > > > I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his home. > He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his building permit > The day he got his final inspection the utility contacted him and claimed > "The aggregate generation exceeds the identified transformer rating" and > refused him a Permission to Operate letter. > > > > Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get about > 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems on his > secondary we get about 16.5 kW. How is it that the back-feed exceeds the > transformer rating? > > > > I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and how > to fight it. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > William Miller > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -- > > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org Mon Dec 26 12:06:40 2022 From: drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org (drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 12:06:40 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: William, I ran into this once on an old transformer, which fortunately they changed at no cost. It was a 10 kW transformer on a 200 A (48 kW) service. They had some dimming of lights on heavy loads, and the transformer was changed out on that basis, at no charge. My questions for the utility would be? * Are there any other PV systems feeding the transformer? * If so, what is their maximum production. * What size is the transformer? * What percentage of transformer capacity is allowed to be back-fed. If the math comes out in your favor, you will have a good case to escalate to the next level. Good Luck, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810 CO Master Electrician's License 4526 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2022-12-25 13:58, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: > Wrenched: > > Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or substitute the winter festivity of your choice. > > I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his home. He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his building permit The day he got his final inspection the utility contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to Operate letter. > > Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get about 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW. How is it that the back-feed exceeds the transformer rating? > > I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and how to fight it. > > Sincerely, > > William Miller > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com [1] > > CA Lic. 773985 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://www.millersolar.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Dec 26 12:48:38 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 09:48:38 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73D4016D-C6EA-4247-B4C6-532124B819F7@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cwarfel at entech-engineering.com Mon Dec 26 13:10:53 2022 From: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com (Christopher Warfel) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 13:10:53 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: <73D4016D-C6EA-4247-B4C6-532124B819F7@gmail.com> References: <73D4016D-C6EA-4247-B4C6-532124B819F7@gmail.com> Message-ID: What happens if the study shows yes, that their no was wrong. Or does that never happen?😕 On 12/26/2022 12:48 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > If the utility is PG&E in my experience here is what happens > > They say yes or no to the interconnection. > If no you have the option to request an engineering study to determine > how much solar. That study is at your expense, paid in advance and the > exact cost isn’t known until the study is done. Could be $500 to > $15,000 or more. > > I’ll be curious to know what happens > > Jay > > > > > >> On Dec 26, 2022, at 9:07 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches >> wrote: >> >>  >> >> >> William, >> >> I ran into this once on an old transformer, which fortunately they >> changed at no cost. It was a 10 kW transformer on a 200 A (48 kW) >> service. They had some dimming of lights on heavy loads, and the >> transformer was changed out on that basis, at no charge. >> >> My questions for the utility would be? >> >> * Are there any other PV systems feeding the transformer? >> o If so, what is their maximum production. >> * What size is the transformer? >> * What percentage of transformer capacity is allowed to be back-fed. >> >> If the math comes out in your favor, you will have a good case to >> escalate to the next level. >> >> >> Good Luck, >> >> Drake >> >> >> Drake Chamberlin >> >> Athens Electric LLC >> >> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 >> >> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526 >> >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> On 2022-12-25 13:58, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >>> Wrenched: >>> >>> Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or >>> substitute the winter festivity of your choice. >>> >>> I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his >>> home.  He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his >>> building permit  The day he got his final inspection the utility >>> contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the >>> identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to >>> Operate letter. >>> >>> Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get >>> about 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems >>> on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW.  How is it that the back-feed >>> exceeds the transformer rating? >>> >>> I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and >>> how to fight it. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> Miller Solar >>> >>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 >>> >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> www.millersolar.com >>> >>> CA Lic. 773985 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, >>> try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >> the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > --             Christopher Warfel                      ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807                                 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EEIlogolong.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cwarfel.vcf Type: text/vcard Size: 203 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Mon Dec 26 13:37:58 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (Jay) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 10:37:58 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Mon Dec 26 15:49:25 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2022 15:49:25 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations In-Reply-To: <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <002801d9196b$8a89c4e0$9f9d4ea0$@mindspring.com> Hi again wrenches. Have a customer looking for a LG Resu 10 “B” battery in good working order. Wants to add it to his current Resu 10 for additional storage. Thx Peter Giroux ASAE From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 9:40 AM To: cwarfel at entech-engineering.com; 'RE-wrenches' Cc: pgiroux at mindspring.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations Morning all. Just got a call from a customer with a radian and fortress battery that caught fire. Has anyone had any issues with either unit?? We have numerous systems with combos of both and no issues. System has been in place for well over a year, climate controlled garage and system has worked well. Did a BMS board replacement earlier this year. Any and all help appreciated. Thank you Peter Giroux ASAE From: RE-wrenches > On Behalf Of Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 26, 2022 8:17 AM To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Christopher Warfel > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility transformer limitations Wouldn't the microinverters shut down if the voltage rose? They wouldn't be able to raise voltage about PUC/DPU limits I would think. They would shut down on high voltage. I am saying this because of an experience this fall where our infamous Block Island Power Company raised the taps on a local xfmr due to their "secret heat pump program" that was dragging down local voltage. They claimed solar was a burden, but were quiet on the load building program they embarked upon without any disclosure. When the cooling loads disappeared, the voltage went above our grid tied systems set points and they shut down. We told the utility they had a high voltage problem and they adjusted the taps. Of course they did not acknowledge or thank us. It seems our little coop which is now head from a guy from the Vermont Electric Coop is taking an old utility approach instead of cooperation, integration and maximization of performance and economics. I'd think you be able to ask how the supply can raise the voltage when there is so much diversified load on the same device. Electricians have to do a diversity calculation, and I know a utility has to conduct them as part of these studies. Worse case of no load and all generation is such a low probability that to design for it, when/if it occurred, is not a danger and of no material consequence makes little sense. But, we've been dealing with that ever since this person arrived in our neck of the woods. Chris Warfel On 12/25/2022 5:21 PM, Garrison via RE-wrenches wrote: Hi William, One possible path forward would be to ask the utility co what AC inverter capacity would be allowed. Maybe the solution would be to unplug a micro or two if you are just over the limit. Even better, maybe they would allow you set an export limit on the micros you have installed. I had a recent situation where a 40kW DC system had exceeded a utility transformer by only 2kW AC, so a simple redesign avoided an $8k invoice from the utility. The utility was not transparent about this option at first and only made it clear after some persistence. Good luck, Garrison Riegel Celestar Solar On Dec 25, 2022, at 3:14 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:  It is common practice for the utility to overload the transformer a lot for the potential load. They expect no one will use their service at maximum, furthermore, they expect non coincidence of loads. Look at the transformer most have a label as to the kW or the unit, and the utility should give you that number along with the impedance. Note I have had area engineers not understand that solar reduces the load on the transformer. They have two concerns, you will overload and you will raise the voltage to other customers. Overload is ridiculous; the transformer must be at least 20 kW if a 15 kW concern is valid. However, raising the voltage is not. If all the customers shut off their power, the voltage would rise to the inverter limit,and/or feed current back on the distribution line raising up/downstream customers voltage. I have had this problem, on three occasions discussions with the utility upper engineering, not local engineer, i prevailed, one case I did not. In one cast utility allowed connection and put a voltage monitor on secondary voltage, then later allowed permanent connection.. Good luck On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches > wrote: Wrenched: Merry Christmas to those of you that observe such traditions, or substitute the winter festivity of your choice. I helped a previous employee install an Enphase IQ8 system on his home. He applied for the utility approval concurrently with his building permit The day he got his final inspection the utility contacted him and claimed "The aggregate generation exceeds the identified transformer rating" and refused him a Permission to Operate letter. Adding up the service ratings of the homes on his secondary we get about 336 kW of potential consumption. Adding the grid-tied systems on his secondary we get about 16.5 kW. How is it that the back-feed exceeds the transformer rating? I would appreciate any insight on how to consider this situation and how to fight it. Sincerely, William Miller Miller Solar 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com CA Lic. 773985 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17117 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lucchesesolar at me.com Tue Dec 27 15:46:52 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 12:46:52 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian and Fortress incident In-Reply-To: <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Greetings Peter, I created a new subject line out William's previous “utility transformer” thread for your incident. Any more details surface about this installation? Eflex or Evault? Were all the settings programmed by yourself or someone else you trust? Installed to specifications provided by each manufacturer? Do you know if it was charging by PV controllers or the Radian at time of fire? One battery of an entire bank that failed? Physical connections appear to all be of full integrity? I’ve had a control board on a Radian completely melt and appear to have been on fire for a brief moment due to extended operation pushing current limits on the AC side but my experience with the Eflex has been great so far other than a minor firmware snag initially. Only reason I used it instead of Blue Ion was due to their lack of an exterior cabinet compared to the Eflex’s IP65 rating. Hope you can provide more details once you have time to fully investigate. Highly likely I will be responsible for both of these products on future projects. Nick > On Dec 26, 2022, at 6:40 AM, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Morning all. Just got a call from a customer with a radian and fortress battery that caught fire. Has anyone had any issues with either unit?? We have numerous systems with combos of both and no issues. System has been in place for well over a year, climate controlled garage and system has worked well. Did a BMS board replacement earlier this year. > > Any and all help appreciated. > > Thank you > Peter Giroux > ASAE > >>> >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > -- > Christopher Warfel > ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 > 401-466-8978 > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at mcfeeters.net Tue Dec 27 18:07:36 2022 From: ben at mcfeeters.net (Ben's Solar and Battery) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 18:07:36 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian and Fortress incident Message-ID: Adding to this, I've had one early Fortress Evault that had a mosfet on the BMS smoke during startup. We ended up replacing the BMS under warranty due to the fact that the unit was in a very difficult location, and removal of the whole unit would have been interesting. We've had no further incidents that that unit or any others in that capacity. I'd be very interested to see exactly what happened here. Ben Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian and Fortress incident Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Greetings Peter, I created a new subject line out William's previous ?utility transformer? thread for your incident. Any more details surface about this installation? Eflex or Evault? Were all the settings programmed by yourself or someone else you trust? Installed to specifications provided by each manufacturer? Do you know if it was charging by PV controllers or the Radian at time of fire? One battery of an entire bank that failed? Physical connections appear to all be of full integrity? I?ve had a control board on a Radian completely melt and appear to have been on fire for a brief moment due to extended operation pushing current limits on the AC side but my experience with the Eflex has been great so far other than a minor firmware snag initially. Only reason I used it instead of Blue Ion was due to their lack of an exterior cabinet compared to the Eflex?s IP65 rating. Hope you can provide more details once you have time to fully investigate. Highly likely I will be responsible for both of these products on future projects. Nick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgiroux at mindspring.com Tue Dec 27 18:34:10 2022 From: pgiroux at mindspring.com (pgiroux at mindspring.com) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2022 18:34:10 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian and Fortress incident In-Reply-To: References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <000001d91a4b$b9280f60$2b782e20$@mindspring.com> Nick Thank you for doing this. I have been able to learn more. I did the original install 5 + years ago. Ac coupled system, has run great since installed. Replaced customers wet cells 1.5 years ago with a fortress evault and had Outback help with all of the programing while on site. System has been flawless until two days ago when the customer smelled smoke at 2 am in the morning. We thought the battery got hot and melted the container on top of the battery which in turn melted the conduit ( only one section, the other was fine ) running into the Radian. Pulled the lid off the battery and the insides were fine, including the BMS board I replaced last summer. No damage to the underside of the lid Re heat or ?? so I had the customer pull off the cover to the radian and the wires were intact and undamaged. Turns out one of the transformers/ power stages was burnt with lots of black soot all over it. So as of today it looks like the culprit is the radian. Headed up there next week to go over the whole system Any thoughts or ideas are welcome, please and thank you. Peter ASAE From: Nick A Lucchese Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 3:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Cc: pgiroux at mindspring.com Subject: Radian and Fortress incident Greetings Peter, I created a new subject line out William's previous “utility transformer” thread for your incident. Any more details surface about this installation? Eflex or Evault? Were all the settings programmed by yourself or someone else you trust? Installed to specifications provided by each manufacturer? Do you know if it was charging by PV controllers or the Radian at time of fire? One battery of an entire bank that failed? Physical connections appear to all be of full integrity? I’ve had a control board on a Radian completely melt and appear to have been on fire for a brief moment due to extended operation pushing current limits on the AC side but my experience with the Eflex has been great so far other than a minor firmware snag initially. Only reason I used it instead of Blue Ion was due to their lack of an exterior cabinet compared to the Eflex’s IP65 rating. Hope you can provide more details once you have time to fully investigate. Highly likely I will be responsible for both of these products on future projects. Nick On Dec 26, 2022, at 6:40 AM, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches > wrote: Morning all. Just got a call from a customer with a radian and fortress battery that caught fire. Has anyone had any issues with either unit?? We have numerous systems with combos of both and no issues. System has been in place for well over a year, climate controlled garage and system has worked well. Did a BMS board replacement earlier this year. Any and all help appreciated. Thank you Peter Giroux ASAE List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From offgridsolar at sti.net Wed Dec 28 11:46:20 2022 From: offgridsolar at sti.net (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2022 08:46:20 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Radian and Fortress incident In-Reply-To: <000001d91a4b$b9280f60$2b782e20$@mindspring.com> References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> <000001d91a4b$b9280f60$2b782e20$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: My comment would be in a closed loop battery power system the BMS is in charge and feeds back into faults and warnings about the battery, Inverter/charger, and other devices. Open loop does not integrate all of the devices. Closed loop is all we should be using these days, in my opinion! Closed loop will also will do a sanity check and adjust charge/discharge settings based on Soc. Open loop systems can lose a setting from generator/grid surges. This could be the case here. It could also just be a Radian that has died. I would look in the Radian for history clues of what happened. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-12-27 3:34 pm, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches wrote: > Nick > > Thank you for doing this. I have been able to learn more. I did the > original install 5 + years ago. Ac coupled system, has run great since > installed. Replaced customers wet cells 1.5 years ago with a fortress > evault and had Outback help with all of the programing while on site. > System has been flawless until two days ago when the customer smelled > smoke at 2 am in the morning. > > We thought the battery got hot and melted the container on top of the > battery which in turn melted the conduit ( only one section, the other > was fine ) running into the Radian. Pulled the lid off the battery and > the insides were fine, including the BMS board I replaced last summer. > No damage to the underside of the lid Re heat or ?? so I had the > customer pull off the cover to the radian and the wires were intact and > undamaged. Turns out one of the transformers/ power stages was burnt > with lots of black soot all over it. So as of today it looks like the > culprit is the radian. Headed up there next week to go over the whole > system > > Any thoughts or ideas are welcome, please and thank you. > > Peter > > ASAE > > From: Nick A Lucchese > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 3:47 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Cc: pgiroux at mindspring.com > Subject: Radian and Fortress incident > > Greetings Peter, > > I created a new subject line out William's previous "utility > transformer" thread for your incident. Any more details surface about > this installation? Eflex or Evault? Were all the settings programmed by > yourself or someone else you trust? Installed to specifications > provided by each manufacturer? Do you know if it was charging by PV > controllers or the Radian at time of fire? One battery of an entire > bank that failed? Physical connections appear to all be of full > integrity? I've had a control board on a Radian completely melt and > appear to have been on fire for a brief moment due to extended > operation pushing current limits on the AC side but my experience with > the Eflex has been great so far other than a minor firmware snag > initially. Only reason I used it instead of Blue Ion was due to their > lack of an exterior cabinet compared to the Eflex's IP65 rating. Hope > you can provide more details once you have time to fully investigate. > Highly likely I will be responsible for both of these products on > future projects. > > Nick > > On Dec 26, 2022, at 6:40 AM, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches > wrote: > > Morning all. Just got a call from a customer with a radian and fortress > battery that caught fire. Has anyone had any issues with either unit?? > We have numerous systems with combos of both and no issues. System has > been in place for well over a year, climate controlled garage and > system has worked well. Did a BMS board replacement earlier this year. > > Any and all help appreciated. > > Thank you > > Peter Giroux > > ASAE > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [1] > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [2] > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [1] > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try > the other: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [2] -- Christopher Warfel ENTECH Engineering, Inc. PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 401-466-8978 [3] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org [1] List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [4] There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [5] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [6] List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [7] Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [2] _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org Links: ------ [1] http://re-wrenches.org/ [2] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ [3] http://entech-engineering.com/ [4] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [5] https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ [6] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [7] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.peltz at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 11:54:14 2022 From: jay.peltz at gmail.com (jay) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2022 08:54:14 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] blue planet battery voltage vs SOC In-Reply-To: References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> <000001d91a4b$b9280f60$2b782e20$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <148ED4B3-367F-4123-A04B-6FE03C5D3F1D@gmail.com> HI All, I’m trying to trouble shoot a remote system and wondering if anyone has a rough volts vs SOC for the the blue planet battery thx jay From lucchesesolar at me.com Wed Dec 28 12:50:55 2022 From: lucchesesolar at me.com (Nick A Lucchese) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2022 09:50:55 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] blue planet battery voltage vs SOC In-Reply-To: <148ED4B3-367F-4123-A04B-6FE03C5D3F1D@gmail.com> References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> <000001d91a4b$b9280f60$2b782e20$@mindspring.com> <148ED4B3-367F-4123-A04B-6FE03C5D3F1D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7B57BA70-EC1C-41F4-BE6D-507453A8BE34@me.com> Greetings Jay, Though the curve is obviously very flat with lithium and not very susceptible to Peukert’s law I do find that the delta between voltage and SOC can very a couple volts depending on how much current is being pushed in or out. But since you asked for a “rough” approximation here is what I observed on a couple systems I’ve got on HBX (while under load or charge). 48vdc seems to be pretty consistent at 5% but drops closer to 47% @ 1C. I just tell my clients it’s time to run the generator or conserve once at 50 or below. 51.2vdc = 21% SOC 51.6vdc = 33% SOC 52% = 45% SOC Obviously you can see a trend of about 12% for every .4vdc Of course when we receive a new lot of batteries and first install they are resting at 52.9vdc and are at 85% SOC. Also, I’ve got a “confidential” document I can send you directly as well. Good luck, Nick > On Dec 28, 2022, at 8:54 AM, jay via RE-wrenches wrote: > > > HI All, > > I’m trying to trouble shoot a remote system and wondering if anyone has a rough volts vs SOC for the the blue planet battery > > > > thx > jay > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > From michael.welch at re-wrenches.org Wed Dec 28 16:56:07 2022 From: michael.welch at re-wrenches.org (Michael Welch) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2022 13:56:07 -0800 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Admin post: Radian and Fortress incident In-Reply-To: References: <7cfef50c-b3d0-2c91-9e10-2588b8cc3b2d@entech-engineering.com> <000b01d91937$f6ea34a0$e4be9de0$@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <1672264628814.772fcc0b44c1631d@re-wrenches.org> Hi Peter, Nick, & other Wrenches. If you have any questions, please contact me off list. Changing the Subject line for that new topic was very helpful. But it's also important to start a brand new message to the list for a new topic, rather than just replying to an old message and changing the Subject header. That's because many email programs and our archives follow threads of discussion, which are based on other, usually hidden message headers that can't be properly edited. So changing the Subject line is a good first step but not usually enough to keep topic threads separate. >I created a new subject line out William's previous "utility transformer" thread for your incident. REJOICE! (The days are getting longer.) From maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com Fri Dec 30 22:13:24 2022 From: maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (Kienan Maxfield) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2022 03:13:24 +0000 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems In-Reply-To: <340c016c6a138362ffddb3100d809981@sti.net> References: <340c016c6a138362ffddb3100d809981@sti.net> Message-ID: Hey all, I really like Fortress and I’ve had amazingly good experiences with their support. I have had 3 different interactions with Fortress technical support. They’ve supported me very very well. They don’t have a good phone number for me to call, but I fill out an online ticket and then the appropriate support agent calls me. Sure, occasionally I’m in a place with no internet, but then, there’s probably no cell phone coverage either. Overall, their technical support was the most helpful team I’ve ever experienced. Outback Power has some really awesome techs (like Lones Tuss) but when you have to deal with the low level techs (which is most of the time), it’s pretty bad. I haven’t had good experiences with Schneider tech support or MidNite tech support. I’ve dealt with many other companies, and I felt like Fortress had the best tech support I’ve had to deal with. Cheers, Kienan Green-Go Solar Distribution LLC Maxfield Solar LLC (installation and consulting company) maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com (801) 631-5584 (Cell) On Dec 12, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:  Fortress has been great for me/and my clients and they have webinars all the time. Not sure why you guy's are not going to them? Below is one this week..... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for registering for "Holly Jolly Webinar 2022". Join Fortress Power West Coast Sales Director, Alex Lepore, for a festive and informational Holly Jolly Webinar! This webinar will discuss the following topics: - Battery overview - Supply challenges and product availability - Fortress Power in 2023 and beyond Please send your questions, comments and feedback to: sales at fortresspower.com Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net text 209 813 0060 On 2022-12-11 10:20 pm, Roland - RES via RE-wrenches wrote: Aloha Jeremy, I would like to join this call. We have numerous Fortress systems installed. Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. Roland Shackelford NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER President Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. Mobile: 808-938-9239 www.renewablenergy.com On Dec 1, 2022, at 1:22 PM, Jeremy Coxon via RE-wrenches wrote: HI Wrenches, A couple of weeks ago this thread came up - main topic was lack of tech support from Fortress. A few days later I was contacted by Marc Zeitlin, Fortress's Regional sales manager Midwest. We haven't used Fortress yet, but I basically reiterated the concerns that were expressed on this thread and said that I'd be interested once they had their Tech support issues ironed out. To my surprise Marc really took that feedback and ran with it all the way up to offering me and those of you that are interested a call with their CEO and anyone else we would like to talk to. I offered to send this note to the list and invite you all to join the call. I would think we'd want to keep the numbers manageable, but we can figure that out. I don't have a horse in the race and have no association with Fortress, but I thought it might be a really good opportunity for those of you that have more experience with Fortress to get a direct line with their CEO and main tech folks so that we can hopefully improve things for all. Marc has proposed Thursday January 5th at 10am. Let me know directly at jcoxon at sunwindpowerinc.com if you're interested and I'll pass your name along so they can get this set up. Best Regards, Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21 MWBE Certified <2022 Logo Blue Tagline 2x no phone - small.jpg> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: