[RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

Tue Oct 19 16:34:41 EDT 2021

Ray this is {again} what I have experienced  over my solar career with Generac, controls that burned, oil leaks, all in all gener-wreak. It is sad to see yet another unit dead & almost every offgrid time, “oh you need to bring it in for servicer” over & over. 

Dana Orzel                              Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003                       dana at solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765         Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136                        <http://www.greatsolarworks.com> www.greatsolarworks.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

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From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 1:37 PM
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

We've seen such poor reliability with the Ecogens, that we can't recommend them anymore.  We've seen as high as 50% failure rates in full time off grid use as backup.  Charging batteries for hours is a very hard load and does not compare to biweekly exercise mode.  The failures have been fairly catastrophic, resulting in blown motors.  

The other issue with these types of pad mounted generators, as Allan just mentioned, is that they need to be pulled and taken into the shop for major repairs.  This can quickly add another $500 to $1000 to the cost, to have a tech with a crane pull it, truck it in, and then reinstall it later.  I'm actually just recommending a good quality portable generator for this reason in many cases.  At least the customer can take it in themselves if there's a problem.

The alternative is to get into the bigger (>20 kW) units with water cooled motors and 1800 RPM operation.  I was surprised when I compared fuel consumption, the big units can actually use less fuel than an Ecogen when charging with dual inverters.  The wildcat is interesting, but I'm not ready to recommend a manufacturer I've not heard of before.

Another option I have not tried in cold weather, is diesels.  I have clients in warmer places with Kubotas that have offered excellent service.  I have clients in Alaska that love their diesels, but I'm not sure what they've done to cold proof them.

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

On 10/19/2021 1:13 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:

Gary,
Interesting that you bring up Generac in response to my request. The customer for whom I made this request for recommendations has a dead Generac EcoGen 15kW at her property now. I don't know what's wrong with it; it had failed before she bought the property. But she had it checked out and was turned down for a service call at her home, told instead that it would have to come into the shop and that basically the cost of repairs was more than replacement cost. So another EcoGen isn't likely at this point. 

Even on Generac's website, there are a surprising number of 'one-star' reviews for the EcoGen 15 (the EcoGen 6 is discontinued). The one at my own home, an early EcoGen 6 that Generac gave me around 2010 in return for evaluation and review, had a throttle solenoid fail with relatively few hours on it. So I remain cautious about Generac products.

Thanks for your reply, though.
Allan

On 10/17/2021 8:58 AM, Gary F Willett PE wrote:

Allan:

DISCLAIMER: I have no business or financial relationship with any Generac dealer.

I have owned two Generac EcoGens in the past 10 years and am pleased with their performance. The EgoGen is configurable using an option setting to use either LP or NG fuel. It is warranteed for the off-grid environment, with a 500 hour recommended interval for routine maintenance.

Even though I live in an urban area, I setup my PV system in the grid-tie battery backup configuration. I have always used LP for fuel instead of natural gas because of some issues we've had with natural gas reliability here in north Texas under extreme winter weather conditions (last one here was in mid-February).

I use my EcoGen only as a battery charger in a grid-down situation, it does not serve house loads directly. I'll admit that most of the hours on my generator are the bi-weekly exercise runs!

I started with the 6kW 240V AC EcoGen as a field trial participant in Generac's beta testing of the EcoGen in an off-grid environment in 2010. Later I upgraded to the 15kW kW 240V AC model. I very pleased with this model too.

So, consider Generac as an option too.

Regards, Gary 

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 20:32:35 -0600, Allan Sindelar  <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com> <allan at sindelarsolar.com> wrote:

Mac, I appreciate your suggestion, thank you. Indeed, I called a longtime regional independent generator dealer about this before posting here. I was surprised that he has Kohler 12s and 14s in stock and available. I’ll go that route if I don’t hear better from our fellow Wrenches. 

Allan

On Oct 16, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Mac Lewis  <mailto:maclewis1 at gmail.com> <maclewis1 at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Allan,

I suggest finding a local long-standing generator technician and see if they can help provide the generator.  We see so many generators bought online with no way to get service because there are no local and qualified service technicians to service that brand.  If you buy from a local technician, or at least ask for their advise, it may allow you to get service in the future (maybe). 

We have had good success with Kohler 14 RESA or RCA machines, they do have off grid warranties, but good luck getting them now. 

Let us know what you decide.

Thanks

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 4:42 PM MD Electric & Solar < <mailto:mdelectricsolar at gmail.com> mdelectricsolar at gmail.com> wrote:

Check out Wildcat Generators, hand built in Kansas.

I just placed my first order for one. 10KW LPG 1800RPM liquid cooled, built to run 24/7. They even make a DC (battery direct) generator.

You can purchase through a master dealer in the Reno Nevada area, Freds Mountain Electric:

 <https://fredsmountain.com/> https://fredsmountain.com/

 <https://wildcatpowergen.com/> https://wildcatpowergen.com/

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 3:37 PM Sindelar Solar < <mailto:Allan at sindelarsolar.com> Allan at sindelarsolar.com> wrote:

Wrenches,
Generators have become a moving target, especially for off grid applications. Most are set up for grid backup, and I'm assuming that many may simply be unavailable, given that half of most everything else is on back-order with no expected delivery date... I'm seldom asked to recommend a generator these days, but I am today, so I'm requesting recommendations from other off grid-savvy Wrenches, please.

I'm working with an older (2014?) existing dual Outback VFX3524 system which will be upgraded to dual VFXR-3648s to work with a 16kW Blue Ion LiFP battery bank; 4kW array with upgrade infrastructure in place to later add 2kW more if needed. Once the upgrade is done I expect relatively little generator runtime. The customer would prefer LP fuel and 2-wire start (for remote control). Pretty much any well-regarded model in the 8-14 kW @240 VAC rating range could work.

Thank you for your suggestions!
Allan 

-- 

Allan Sindelar
 <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com> allan at sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

-- 

Michael D Nelson

MD Electric & Solar Inc.

Office: 707-884-1862

Cell: 707-684-0064

 <http://www.mdelectricsolar.com/> www.mdelectricsolar.com

 <http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar

-- 

Allan Sindelar
 <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com> allan at sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

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