[RE-wrenches] Trend away from roof flashings???

[Dave Tedeyan]

William, Jeremy,
I have been using Quickmount QMSE-Lag flashings for years. They have the
raised seal that does not rely on an EPDM bushing. It's more expensive than
most other flashings, but I figure this small added cost is definitely
worth the peace of mind.
Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 1:11 AM William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
wrote:

> Jeremy:
>
>
>
> It is amazing how we all exist in parallel universes.  We have had
> IDENTICAL experiences with leak claims and handled them EXACTLY as you
> did:  We meet with the roofer of choice and dissect the patient as a team.
> Our policy is:  If we caused the leak, we pay for everything.  If we did
> not cause the leak, we pay for nothing.
>
>
>
> In almost 40 years of solar contracting we have caused exactly one leak.
> I intend to keep it to that number.  We have to take roofing issues
> seriously and not let the manufacturer’s bean counters dictate how we do
> what we know how to do.  The new hardware is crap, in my opinion.
>
>
>
> Rant off…
>
>
>
> You bring up three important points:
>
>
>
> 1.   Flashings are essential.
>
> 2.   Valleys need to have a gap between shingles or tiles and kept clear
> of debris.
>
> 3.   Rain water can and will travel sideways.
>
>
>
> Thank you so much for bringing up this scenario.  It is a huge reality
> check for those of us that poke holes in roofs for a living.  Our liability
> exposure is huge.
>
>
>
> What will we be using?  I don’t know.  Snap-N-Rack has been marginalizing
> their product line for a while now, so I guess I am shopping for a new
> direction.  It’s a shame because I have a big inventory of SNR parts and
> pieces.  I am as keen as you are to learn where to turn for racking.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jeremy Coxon
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 3:48 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trend away from roof flashings???
>
>
>
> William you and I think a lot alike.  I had a job today where “the owner
> was told by a roofing company that those solar panels are making my roof
> leak”.  This was on an 11 yr old install over new shingles.  We used
> flashings and added flashing stock anywhere that was close to a shingle
> seam (just like always).  So instead of fighting the battle we scheduled to
> show up at the same time as the roofer (one of the top 2 roofers in town
> and the same company that laid the roof 11yrs ago).  Did the leak checks,
> ID’d the location, lifted panels and let them go to town.  Turns out that
> the leak was 3’ away from any of our penetrations and the leak was at a
> shingle nail.  The cause according to the roofers (lead guy and manager)
> was water running sideways from the adjacent gap between shingles.  Their
> comment-“we see this all the time on these 3D shingles on roofs that don’t
> have solar panels”.  Apparently, “if leaves build up or ice dams up then
> water shoots sideways and after a while the nail holes leak”.  Their
> warranty -2 years!  So, there ya go.  Crisis averted, solar not the
> culprit.  But can you imagine how that would have turned out if we had NOT
> used flashings?
>
>
>
> We will not be using unflashed attachments.  Besides, what happens when
> the new guy misses the rafter or what happens when the rafter spacing
> changes (we see that a LOT)?  Sealed L feet are a huge step backwards IMO.
>
>
>
> The problem now though is the flashings that I know work (SnapNRack old
> style) are no longer available.  It seems that all the new ones rely on a
> cone with EPDM seal and washered lags for sealing.  Hence the initial
> reason for this post- what are you guys using?
>
>
>
> Jeremy Coxon NABCEP
>
> Certified MWBE
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2021, at 2:57 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Jeremy:
>
>
>
> Good question.  I am with you in that I prefer that my pitched-roof
> rain-proofing relies on gravity.  This is the concept invented by the first
> roof thatcher and followed ever since as roofing technology progressed.
>
>
>
> When I spotted this regressive trend my first question was: What happens
> when the rafter connection you need falls under a seam in the roofing
> shingles?  This problem alone is a deal killer.  I am sure lesser
> installers will attempt to fill the seam with caulk.
>
>
>
> Adding to my discomfort is the reality that chemical solutions are not
> nearly as reliable as gravity.  Even the best caulk degrades with time,
> temperature and UV.  Roofing materials crack and become brittle and
> powdery.  Applying the new technology is iffy with a new comp roof and
> crazy on roofs a year or more old.
>
>
>
> We will not be using the new flashingless attachments on comp roofs.
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jeremy Coxon
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:40 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Trend away from roof flashings???
>
>
>
> I’m interested in what the group has to say about the trend, by the
> racking manufacturers, away from the use of flashings for asphalt/comp
> roofs?  We have long used SnapNRack flashings with much success.  I
> especially like the fact that the penetrations are fully flashed and do not
> rely on sealant.  I am NOT a fan of their new raised cone/epdm gasket
> flashing.  There are a number of these raised cone flashings in the
> marketplace and it’s my experience that they don’t hold up to the test of
> time and I wonder what the roofing manufacturers have to say about this.
>
>
>
> I see that Unirac, SnapNRack and others are now offering basically a
> sealed L-Foot which is essentially where we were 15-16yrs ago and met with
> a lot of opposition from the roofing industry.  Just interested to hear
> what you guys are using these days on asphalt shingle roofs for reliably
> dry attachments?
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21
> MWBE Certified
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>

-- 
*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
[image: Sungineer Solar]
1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850
Cell: 607-288-2898
www.sungineersolar.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20210423/db4f1cda/attachment.htm>