[RE-wrenches] AC couple - off grid and rapid Shutdown

Wed May 6 20:04:25 EDT 2020

J
If you are planning on using, enlarging or even replacing the ground mount,
RSD is not required on a ground mount that is unless your inspector is
requiring that. Arc fault is now built into the outback fm100  and AFCI is
most likely required.
AC Couping works differently with different GT inverters, the new SMA and
Outbacks play well together, older inverters dont do frequency shift and
it's all or nothing with them. I looking to upgrade a system similar to you
site. Contact Blueplanet energy for battery information, been very happy
with that product. Going Outback all the way with mine.
Jerry

On Wed, May 6, 2020, 1:41 PM J Troxell <jtrox23 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I’ve been tasked with updating an old FLA off-grid facility. I put one of
> those SMAPEEs in a sub panel last summer(see attached). We were surprised
> to see the calculated monthly consumption rate of ~1 MWh and that does not
> include the well pump and mechanical room.  There is currently; 4
> MS4448-paw, 4 sets of the HUP batteries, and 6kW of ground mount PV, with
> two FM80’s and one FM60.
> The generator at the pump house mechanical building  runs a lot.
>
>
> We will need to put PV on the roof of two buildings to get a production
> rate anywhere close to the consumption rate. So now we need rapid Shutdown.
>
> A simplified break down of a new system is,  does it make sense?
>
> SI6048 x 2 120/24
> 32kWh of Blue Ion Lithium
> SB7.7 x2
> ~12kW  of PV
>
> Hopefully this BOS can be duplicated and AC coupled. One in the pump house
> and one in the main building.
>
> Any wrenches out there work on something similar?
>
> Any words of advice?
>
> Jeremy Troxell
> Insource Renewables
> Pittsfield - Maine
>
>
>
>>  Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems (Chris Sparadeo)
>>    2. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>       (Jason Fisher (STC))
>>    3. Re: Recycling of LI vs Pb (Kirpal)
>>    4. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>       (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar)
>>    5. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems (Darryl Thayer)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Chris Sparadeo <sparadeo.chris at gmail.com>
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 19:00:19 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>> For AC coupled battery based systems it’s a pretty easy solution. Any run
>> of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work.
>> Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it
>> gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I
>> haven’t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a
>> great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:59 PM Chris Sparadeo <c2 at catamountsolar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For AC coupled battery based systems it’s a pretty easy solution. Any
>>> run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can
>>> work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were
>>> it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS,
>>> but I haven’t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems
>>> like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:21 PM Glenn Burt <Glenn.burt at glbcc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The difference in topologies is that when the Tigo devices are used
>>>> with an inverter driving the control is that it is relying on the Sunspec
>>>> Alliance standard to be implemented correctly between the inverter
>>>> manufacturer and Tigo.
>>>> When using the Tigo devices at the modules and the Togo RSS box for
>>>> control, the inverter is not involved and it removes a layer of possible
>>>> incompatibility and finger pointing if things go sideways.
>>>>
>>>> We have been told of such hiccups by our distributor, and they are
>>>> pushing the IMO Fire raptor solution. Unfortunately they sell the SMA
>>>> branded Tigo devices so have no feedback on their use with the RSS
>>>> controller, only with the SMA inverter control of the rooftop devices.
>>>> I have attended a couple of Tigo trainings, and the all Togo option
>>>> looks straightforward. We have quoted their use a couple of times now, but
>>>> have not yet done an install.
>>>>
>>>> -Glenn
>>>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original message------
>>>> *From: *Jerry Shafer
>>>> *Date: *Fri, Sep 27, 2019 1:40 PM
>>>> *To: *RE-wrenches;
>>>> *Cc: *
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>>>
>>>> Wrenches
>>>> Yes l am looking at the Tigo, they work with SMA and outback,
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 10:24 AM Lorenzo Ortiz <lorenzo at cal-solar.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wrenches,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid
>>>>> shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at
>>>>> least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven,
>>>>> *cost-effective* products yet.
>>>>> I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot
>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any input is appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Loren Ortiz
>>>>> Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid
>>>>>
>>>>> loren at cal-solar.com californiasolarco.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Main: 530-274-3671 <530-274-3671> ext: 311 * *Fax: 530-274-7518
>>>>> <530-274-7518>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> < /div>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> <https://californiasolarco.com/referral_form/>
>>>>> *Showroom located at: 149 E Main St. Grass Valley, CA 95945*
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>
>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> List-Archive:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>>
>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>
>>> *Chris Sparadeo*
>>>
>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652*
>>>
>>> Catamount Solar, LLC
>>>
>>> 4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060
>>>
>>> C_(802) 369-4458
>>>
>>> O_(802) 728-3600
>>>
>>> www.CatamountSolar.com <http://www.catamountsolar.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>>
>> C_802-369-4458
>> H_802-728-3059
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Jason Fisher (STC)" <stc.jason at gmail.com>
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 01:56:56 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>> Just a reminder to everyone struggling with this issue that only
>> building-attached circuits energized by PV sources require RSD. So ground
>> mounts generally don’t, or at least would only require a disconnect at the
>> building if sending dc circuits into buildings.
>>
>> Energy Storage is covered under article 706 in 2017 and does not require
>> any shutdown, just sensible disconnection requirements.
>>
>> Jason Fisher
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on
>> behalf of Chris Sparadeo <sparadeo.chris at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 27, 2019 5:00 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>
>> For AC coupled battery based systems it’s a pretty easy solution. Any run
>> of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work.
>> Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it
>> gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I
>> haven’t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a
>> great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:59 PM Chris Sparadeo <c2 at catamountsolar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For AC coupled battery based systems it’s a pretty easy solution. Any
>>> run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can
>>> work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were
>>> it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS,
>>> but I haven’t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems
>>> like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:21 PM Glenn Burt <Glenn.burt at glbcc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The difference in topologies is that when the Tigo devices are used
>>>> with an inverter driving the control is that it is relying on the Sunspec
>>>> Alliance standard to be implemented correctly between the inverter
>>>> manufacturer and Tigo.
>>>> When using the Tigo devices at the modules and the Togo RSS box for
>>>> control, the inverter is not involved and it removes a layer of possible
>>>> incompatibility and finger pointing if things go sideways.
>>>>
>>>> We have been told of such hiccups by our distributor, and they are
>>>> pushing the IMO Fire raptor solution. Unfortunately they sell the SMA
>>>> branded Tigo devices so have no feedback on their use with the RSS
>>>> controller, only with the SMA inverter control of the rooftop devices.
>>>> I have attended a couple of Tigo trainings, and the all Togo option
>>>> looks straightforward. We have quoted their use a couple of times now, but
>>>> have not yet done an install.
>>>>
>>>> -Glenn
>>>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original message------
>>>> *From: *Jerry Shafer
>>>> *Date: *Fri, Sep 27, 2019 1:40 PM
>>>> *To: *RE-wrenches;
>>>> *Cc: *
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>>>
>>>> Wrenches
>>>> Yes l am looking at the Tigo, they work with SMA and outback,
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 10:24 AM Lorenzo Ortiz <lorenzo at cal-solar.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wrenches,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid
>>>>> shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at
>>>>> least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven,
>>>>> *cost-effective* products yet.
>>>>> I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot
>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any input is appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Loren Ortiz
>>>>> Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid
>>>>>
>>>>> loren at cal-solar.com californiasolarco.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Main: 530-274-3671 <530-274-3671> ext: 311 **Fax: 530-274-7518
>>>>> <530-274-7518>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> < /div>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> <https://californiasolarco.com/referral_form/>
>>>>> *Showroom located at: 149 E Main St. Grass Valley, CA 95945*
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>
>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> List-Archive:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>>
>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>
>>> *Chris Sparadeo*
>>>
>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652*
>>>
>>> Catamount Solar, LLC
>>>
>>> 4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060
>>>
>>> C_(802) 369-4458
>>>
>>> O_(802) 728-3600
>>>
>>> www.CatamountSolar.com <http://www.catamountsolar.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>>
>> C_802-369-4458
>> H_802-728-3059
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Kirpal <solarworks at gmail.com>
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 20:14:14 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Recycling of LI vs Pb
>> Hi Jay....There are numerous articles.  Here are a few....I havn't
>> researched  much more than these articles...But it looks like
>> interesting...Not really sure if they are up to full speed yet....
>>
>>
>> https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122631_tesla-launches-battery-recycling-at-nevada-gigafactory
>> https://electrek.co/2019/04/16/tesla-battery-recycling-system/
>>
>> https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/07/yes-tesla-recycles-all-of-its-spent-batteries-wants-to-do-more-in-the-future/
>>
>> This one I found the most interesting:
>>
>> https://medium.com/tradr/teslas-approach-to-recycling-is-the-way-of-the-future-for-sustainable-production-5af99b62aa0e
>> Cheers
>>
>> Kirpal Khalsa
>> Oregon LRT#25
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>> 541-299-0402
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 1:27 PM Jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Kirpal,
>>>
>>> Do you know of any information about this recycling at Tesla?
>>> Links, etc
>>>
>>> Thx
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> On Sep 27, 2019, at 7:49 AM, Kirpal <solarworks at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Hi Mark.  Great question!  This is an important consideration.  Tesla
>>> has a recycling facility at their Nevada plant for their batteries.
>>> Curious how other LFP manufacturers recommend end of life handling.
>>> Speaking of waste,  As you all are installing systems of all varieties,
>>> what are you finding with regard to non sustainable packaging in all your
>>> "clean" energy materials.  I am troubled that after many of our installs we
>>> have a pile of plastic and styrofoam as big as the the balance of system
>>> installation.  Sometimes bigger.  It drives me crazy to have this blight on
>>> our installation.  I am often embarrassed when the customer points out this
>>> dichotomy of the installation.  Which manufacturers are you happiest with
>>> in regards to environmentally friendly packaging materials for inverters,
>>> other balance of system, and batteries  (probably LFePho4)?  Collectively
>>> we should have the ability to pressure them to use more sustainable
>>> packaging.
>>> I have seen some improvements and some half way implemented changes, but
>>> a lot more can be done to improve this aspect of our industry.  All of us
>>> can help....Together we have a big voice.
>>>
>>> Sunny Regards,
>>> Kirpal Khalsa
>>> Oregon LRT#25
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>>> 541-299-0402
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:34 AM Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone done a good review of the current state of affairs re:
>>>> recycling Li batteries?
>>>>
>>>> I am a bit in the past with a starry-eyed view of Pb with HUP, in
>>>> particular, believing that Pb batteries have almost a closed cycle
>>>> product life, ie, we already have infrastructure to recycle something
>>>> like 95% of the material in Pb batteries.
>>>>
>>>> Taking a step back, has our industry become just as jaded by our shiny
>>>> new technology as every other sector of our economy, focusing on
>>>> impressive new short term outcomes that are not really embedded within
>>>> the frame work of a sustainable future?
>>>>
>>>> This is why I ask about the recyclablility / sustainability of Li
>>>> batteries? Some what agnostic here but wondering what the thinking
>>>> around this is?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Mark Frye
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 08:58:48 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>
>> Just another reminder that one should most always do what the AHJ or
>> inspector wants. When they are done you can do what is sensible and very
>> often safer. We have a new inspector here who is about 24 years old who is
>> really good.
>>
>> Over the years it has been interesting/amusing to watch the learning
>> curve.
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 01:56:56 +0000, "Jason Fisher (STC)" <
>> stc.jason at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Just a reminder to everyone struggling with this issue that only
>> building-attached circuits energized by PV sources require RSD. So ground
>> mounts generally don't, or at least would only require a disconnect at the
>> building if sending dc circuits into buildings.
>>
>> Energy Storage is covered under article 706 in 2017 and does not require
>> any shutdown, just sensible disconnection requirements.
>>
>> Jason Fisher
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> on
>> behalf of Chris Sparadeo <sparadeo.chris at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 27, 2019 5:00 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>
>> For AC coupled battery based systems it's a pretty easy solution. Any run
>> of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work.
>> Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it
>> gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I
>> haven't found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a
>> great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:59 PM Chris Sparadeo <c2 at catamountsolar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For AC coupled battery based systems it's a pretty easy solution. Any
>>> run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can
>>> work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were
>>> it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS,
>>> but I haven't found a comparable solution for other products. This seems
>>> like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:21 PM Glenn Burt <Glenn.burt at glbcc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The difference in topologies is that when the Tigo devices are used
>>>> with an inverter driving the control is that it is relying on the Sunspec
>>>> Alliance standard to be implemented correctly between the inverter
>>>> manufacturer and Tigo.
>>>> When using the Tigo devices at the modules and the Togo RSS box for
>>>> control, the inverter is not involved and it removes a layer of possible
>>>> incompatibility and finger pointing if things go sideways.
>>>>
>>>> We have been told of such hiccups by our distributor, and they are
>>>> pushing the IMO Fire raptor solution. Unfortunately they sell the SMA
>>>> branded Tigo devices so have no feedback on their use with the RSS
>>>> controller, only with the SMA inverter control of the rooftop devices.
>>>> I have attended a couple of Tigo trainings, and the all Togo option
>>>> looks straightforward. We have quoted their use a couple of times now, but
>>>> have not yet done an install.
>>>>
>>>> -Glenn
>>>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>>>
>>>> ------ Original message------
>>>> *From: *Jerry Shafer
>>>> *Date: *Fri, Sep 27, 2019 1:40 PM
>>>> *To: *RE-wrenches;
>>>> *Cc: *
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>>>>
>>>> Wrenches
>>>> Yes l am looking at the Tigo, they work with SMA and outback,
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 10:24 AM Lorenzo Ortiz <lorenzo at cal-solar.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wrenches,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid
>>>>> shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at
>>>>> least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven,
>>>>> *cost-effective* products yet.
>>>>> I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot
>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any input is appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Loren Ortiz
>>>>> Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid
>>>>>
>>>>> loren at cal-solar.com californiasolarco.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Main: 530-274-3671 <530-274-3671> ext: 311 **Fax: 530-274-7518
>>>>> <530-274-7518>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> < /div>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> <https://californiasolarco.com/referral_form/>
>>>>> *Showroom located at: 149 E Main St. Grass Valley, CA 95945*
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>
>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> List-Archive:
>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>>
>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List-Archive:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Chris Sparadeo*
>>>
>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652*
>>>
>>> Catamount Solar, LLC
>>>
>>> 4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060
>>>
>>> C_(802) 369-4458
>>>
>>> O_(802) 728-3600
>>>
>>> www.CatamountSolar.com <http://www.catamountsolar.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>>
>> C_802-369-4458
>> H_802-728-3059
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Darryl Thayer <darylsolar1 at gmail.com>
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:42:35 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
>> Fire raptor will provide rapid shutdown at module level.  Midnight also
>> has the SOB.  FireRaptor  requires a control cable two wire, which can be
>> powered by a 24 volt AC or a DC source.  The Midnight SOB uses PLC from an
>> AC or DC source.  Outback uses the FireRaptor the two wire cable daisy
>> chains and the presence of voltage on the cable closes the series circuit.
>> I asked after their webinar if a single raptor could open several modules
>> in series, I was told yes but I do not belive it.  Ibelieve it is a single
>> module device.  I was told the two wire cable is isloated for up to 600
>> Volts, (maybe they said 1,000 V.)  such that I could use one raptor
>> conrtroller on two strings.
>>
>> Code requires shutdown at module level for arc fault also, 690.11, for
>> all unintended arcs this will mandate module level for parallel arcs,  To
>> be code compliant the charge controller for DC coupled systems, must have
>> arc fault and a way to connect to the Fire Raptor string
>>
>> Perhaps for smaller off grid, go to low voltage where arc fault is not
>> required.  or use a classic CC which has Arc Fault, but I do not know how
>> to get a shutdown signal from the classic.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 12:24 PM Lorenzo Ortiz <lorenzo at cal-solar.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wrenches,
>>>
>>> Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid
>>> shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at
>>> least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven,
>>> *cost-effective* products yet.
>>> I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot
>>> about it.
>>>
>>> Any input is appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Loren Ortiz
>>> Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid
>>>
>>> loren at cal-solar.com californiasolarco.com
>>>
>>> *Main: 530-274-3671 ext: 311 * *Fax: 530-274-7518*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://californiasolarco.com/referral_form/>
>>> *Showroom located at: 149 E Main St. Grass Valley, CA 95945*
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List-Archive:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
> --
> Talk with you soon
> Jeremy
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20200506/fb69f999/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20200215_160115.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2827566 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20200506/fb69f999/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 20200215_160115.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2827566 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.org/attachments/20200506/fb69f999/attachment-0001.jpg>