[RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW 4048 grid tie mystery
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Fri Dec 20 18:01:31 EST 2019
The SWs were awesome for off grid in their day, but infamous for burning=20
up a couple of kW worth of array in inefficiency when grid tied.=C2=A0 I=20
actually saw several systems that consumed more power from the grid than=20
they produced.=C2=A0 Once the GTI box was added,=C2=A0 it just got worse.=
=C2=A0 I would=20
compare that system to an early 80s carbureted vehicle: partial design=20
solutions stacked on top of each other to meet emissions standards; then=20
we got computer controlled fuel injection.=C2=A0 Nobody ever went back.=C2=
=A0 I'd=20
suggest the same there: It never was a good GT solution.=C2=A0 The equipmen=
t=20
is beyond its usable life anyway, time to upgrade.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 12/20/19 3:37 PM, Tump wrote:
> With this set up the AC feed */into/* the grid is not constant. The=20
> current will ramp up then back down. Open the connection end of the=20
> inverters and you will see a small black (behind the cardboard)=20
> cord/plug that can be disconnected to confirm operation & disable=20
> ramping effect. As long as the inverters are connected to L1/L2=20
> respectfully as individual inverters then this should work. I do have=20
> the cable, but its really not the most efficient AC coupling design=20
> out there.
> The SWs still can be repaired using older boards but its pricy, =C2=A0the=
re=20
> is a market for them so =C2=A0you might be able to sell them and purchase=
=20
> something a bit more up to date. I have the cable & a refurbished=20
> XW5548 contact me off list if interested. Tump
>> On Dec 20, 2019, at 2:18 PM, Lloyd Hoffstatter=20
>> <lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com=20
>> <mailto:lloyd at sunstruckconsulting.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dave,
>> Guessing it=E2=80=99s a synchronization problem between the two inverter=
s.
>> Depending on the placement of the grid tie breakers, the two=20
>> inverters are presenting themselves as either in parallel (2 x 120v=20
>> sources on the same leg) or =E2=80=9Cseries=E2=80=9D (120 / 240 on two 1=
20V legs).
>> The attached manual excerpt and tech note talk about both.=C2=A0 Seems=20
>> that you need a synch cable in either case, recently did a rebuild on=20
>> an SW 5048 (pm for internals rebuilder info) and needed cable to get=20
>> both inverters to work properly.
>> Have at least one grid-tie / backup system that has been running for=20
>> years with dual SW / GTI=E2=80=99s =E2=80=93 time for battery replacemen=
t, rest of=20
>> system still going=E2=80=A6
>> Best regards,
>> Lloyd
>> Lloyd Hoffstatter
>> Sunstruck Consulting
>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986>for=20
>> Windows 10
>> *From:*Dave Tedeyan <mailto:dtedeyan at taitem.com>
>> *Sent:*Friday, December 20, 2019 1:03 PM
>> *To:*offgridsolar at sti.net <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>;RE-wrenches=20
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW 4048 grid tie mystery
>> Dave,
>> Sorry, misspeak on my part. It is DC negatives and grounds that are=20
>> tied together. No neutrals in the DC box.
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>> *Dave Tedeyan, PE*
>> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
>> 110 South Albany Street=C2=A0| Ithaca, NY 14850
>> o._607.277.1118 x121_ f. 607.277.2119
>> www.taitem.com <http://www.taitem.com/>
>> Solar=C2=A0=E2=80=A2Sustainability=C2=A0=E2=80=A2=C2=A0Energy=C2=A0=E2=
=80=A2=C2=A0Design
>> Certified B-Corporation since 2013
>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:57 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar=20
>> <offgridsolar at sti.net <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Why would neutral be in the DC conduit box? This just wrong but I
>> doubt this is the problem.
>>
>> Since this never worked properly or has not in 13 years, I would
>> suggest replacement with modern equipment. SW from xantrex has
>> been out of support for around 15 years and always was a headache
>> grid tied, in my opinion.
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>
>> *"we go where powerlines don't"*
>>
>> *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/*
>>
>> *e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net <mailto:offgridsolar at sti.net>*
>>
>> *text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 12:44:42 -0500, Dave Tedeyan
>> <dtedeyan at taitem.com <mailto:dtedeyan at taitem.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> I am someone's last ditch effort to get their system working
>> which has been non-functional since a few months after
>> installation, 13 years ago...
>> After getting=C2=A0some new batteries in there, I can at least
>> fire it up. It is a grid tie with battery backup situation
>> with two Xantrex SW4048 inverters. Each inverter is kind of
>> like its own system with two Outback MX60 CC's per inverter,
>> and each inverter powers its own 120V backed up loads panel.
>> They do not see each other until their 60A single pole
>> breakers in the main panel.
>> What seems to be happening is that after turning on the
>> inverters the AC1 in good light will flash for about 30
>> seconds, then it syncs up to the grid and the light stays on
>> solid. But then after a little bit, that light will start
>> flashing, indicating that the utility power has been dropped,
>> when it has not actually been dropped. Then at some point the
>> backed up loads would lose power. The customer says that
>> every 1-10 minutes, they would lose the backed up loads for
>> 10-90 seconds. This happened all night long until they
>> bypassed the inverters.
>> There are a few other things of note:
>> 1. There is a Xantrex GTI for each inverter.
>> 2. I see in the manual there is information about stacking
>> the inverters, but I am guessing in this setup this not
>> necessary or would even be counter productive to stack the
>> inverters. Not sure if the inverters not being stacked could
>> cause one of them to unsync with the utility?
>> 3. Neutrals and grounds are bonded in their main panel, but
>> also in each of the Xantrex DC breaker=C2=A0boxes. I was going to
>> separate them in the DC breaker boxes, but found that there
>> is no way to isolate the battery negative bus from the box
>> itself, and figured it would be dodgy to unground the
>> enclosure. So I am also not sure if the multiple N-G bonds
>> could be causing these issues.
>> Does anyone have any ideas?
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>> *Dave Tedeyan, PE*
>> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
>> <5DD17443B6814684BEA5BA6A3C5C2E3A.gif>
>> 110 South Albany Street=C2=A0| Ithaca, NY 14850
>> o._607.277.1118 x121_=C2=A0 f. 607.277.2119
>> www.taitem.com <http://www.taitem.com/>
>> Solar=C2=A0=E2=80=A2Sustainability=C2=A0=E2=80=A2=C2=A0Energy=C2=
=A0=E2=80=A2=C2=A0Design
>> Certified B-Corporation since 2013
>>
>> --
>>
>> =20
>>
>> =20
>>
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>> <SW Series Manual on multiple inverters.pdf><SWI PARALLEL SERIES=20
>> Stacking cable=20
>> instructions.pdf>_______________________________________________
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>> *Tump at swnl.net=20
>> <blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:Tump at swnl.=
net>**www.SWNL.net*=20
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et/>
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>>
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>
>
>
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