[RE-wrenches] Does SMA have a SGIP-compliant (i.e. Smart Storage) Product?

Fri Apr 5 16:31:34 EDT 2019

Wrenches – you are all correct about ensuring the surge rating. And now the battery + BMS must also be checked.  A few comments from SMA’s side:

The SBS must have the Automatic Backup Unit (ABU) accessory installed to function off-grid beyond the Secure Power Supply capability.
This unit includes (installed and internally wired): 200A contactor for grid isolation, control board to tell the SBS to become a grid former, a 5kVA autoformer, 50A breakers for 1 x PV AND 1 x SBS AC outputs, and Wattnode energy meter with CTS on conductors from 200A contactor.
Data sheet on webpage, listing** 60s and 100ms surge capability: https://files.sma.de/dl/30859/SBSABU-DUS185117.pdf

** Using a SBS 6.0 with battery whose BMS will allow that surge.  <-- Here the BYD Battery Box HV 10 would likely be best, as noted by many the battery BMS must also allow the DC power to meet this surge rating!  Eagle-eyed viewers will note this is slightly lower than one SI 4548-US surge.

The Sunny Boy Storage was built to be a grid-tied battery inverter, the Sunny Island to be an off-grid battery inverter.  Both CAN work well as grid-tied battery backup inverters, it depends on the customer needs.

Standard legal disclaimer – SMA never approves life-sustaining equipment be powered solely by our inverters.

Best-
Mike

From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2019 12:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Does SMA have a SGIP-compliant (i.e. Smart Storage) Product?

Definitely agree with Kienan. The LG 48V project with Schneider failed because LG could not handle the surge of an XW6848. LG Chem indicated to me that the second half of 2019, they may announce something. I am working on a project that is running 17 Discover AES and 3 XW+. It has some issues but surge is not one of them.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.sti.net%2Foffgridsolar%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C17f2ffecfc054139dfbe08d6b9ff2ddd%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C636900902981847670&sdata=kLTwHlLFfcT0ynA1fJlvjFICtNHWn8QVh6GkDk0xXYI%3D&reserved=0>

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On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 18:04:55 +0000, Kienan Maxfield <maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com<mailto:maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Peter,

Just a quick word of caution... If you are going to need backup power then just double check that the surge capabilities of these inverters will work for you. I know nothing about the Tesla, but I do know that most of the newer battery inverters like the SMA Sunny Boy Storage, the Solar Edge StorEdge, Outback's Skybox, and others, often have pathetic surge capabilities. If Arbitrage and/or very small backup is your game then it's not a big deal, but for my projects, this instantly counts them out. Fronius was going to bring in a battery inverter (I don't know if or when) but their product was going to have the same problem according to the techs at Fronius that I know.

Now if you're comparing these against the SB "Secure Power Supply" then yeah, they can handle a lot of loads, but once you pay out all that money for the batteries, then most of my customers are going to expect a more substantial backup capacity.

Thanks,
Kienan

Maxfield Solar
maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com<mailto:maxfieldsolar at hotmail.com>
(801) 631-5584 (Cell)

________________________________
From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> on behalf of Marco Mangelsdorf <marco at pvthawaii.com<mailto:marco at pvthawaii.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 10:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Does SMA have a SGIP-compliant (i.e. Smart Storage) Product?

Welcome back, Peter, to the Brave New World of grid-tie plus storage plus SGIP plus bulk services plus plus plus.

From my perspective, Tesla and LGC/SolarEdge are the furthest along in this new journey beyond the dinosaur designs and strategies of the 1980s to the early 2000s.  At least if you look at the installation data from the two cutting/bleeding edge states of Hawaii and California.

SMA is somewhat late to this particular dance. That said, I find your comments below kinda shocking.

Blair Reynolds....are you out there?  I've found him to be one of the most knowledgeable SMA guys on the Sunny Storage front. If he doesn't respond, let me know and I'll get you two together.

Aloha,
marco

On Wednesday, April 3, 2019, Peter Parrish <peter.parrish at calsolareng.com<mailto:peter.parrish at calsolareng.com>> wrote:

When I was a C-46 contractor in California from 2000 to 2012, I used to do about 1/3 of my business as grid-tied battery backup and off-grid. I came to focus on the Outback solutions in general, and later the Radian 8048 and 240 A-hr AGM batteries.

That was obviously a while ago. I became an educator and a consultant helping California K-12 school districts become more energy efficient and energy conserving.

Nonetheless, I had a left-over client that was working through a full-house "gut and rebuild". I recommended the most efficient lighting, A/C, fridges. I helped him create dedicated branch circuits should he want to back-up critical loads. I designed a SMA/LG 12.4 kW roof mount system together with a 400 A 240/120 V split phase service panel. We were ready for battery back up and also told him that there was a new program – California SGIP. One-half of his service panel remains untouched.

So with the SGIP Program, I put in a reservation to Southern California Edison for a 8 kW / 16 kWh (Sonnen ECO-16 -- based)  "smart storage" system. The guys at Sonnen made a number of faux pas, so we went looking elsewhere.

I really like the SMA SB inverters. The three MPP inputs, the secure power supply. So I thought since SMA claimed to have a "Sunny Boy Storage" system that was SGIP-compliant, and had taken this new product on a eight-city road show, we were "in like Flynn".

Fast forward: I have spoken to my sales rep at Wesco, and FIVE – count them FIVE -- people at SMA Sales and presales Tech Support , and not one person claimes to have knowledge of the Sunny Boy Storage system. Have I gone blind, dum and crazy?

I understand that StorEdge product has traction and I am ready to jump ship. What am I missing?

Peter Parrish

Peter T. Parrish
Calofornia Solar Engineering
1107 Fair Oaks Ave. Ste. 351<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2F%3Fq%3D1107%2BFair%2BOaks%2BAve.%2BSte.%2B351%2BSouth%2BPasadena%2C%2BCA%2B91030%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7C17f2ffecfc054139dfbe08d6b9ff2ddd%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C636900902981847670&sdata=ffMT0GSPik%2BbhGIqCjlgS7uDtl7kfZ%2Bdnw%2BNp8ziUgg%3D&reserved=0>
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