[RE-wrenches] Trackers
Ray
ray at solarray.com
Fri Sep 7 01:12:32 EDT 2018
Allan;
That's the same math I've done, and tracking off grid just doesn't
pencil much of the time There is software that can model tracking vs
fixed. If you run these calcs and pay attention to the critical winter
months, its just not there. Also even when tracking might be a
consideration, most people do not have a dawn to dusk perfect solar
window, so shading starts reducing the benefits as well. I found it
hard enough to not shade a fixed array, so tracking is certainly not
adding much in a tight valley with trees.
Its funny how my designs have shifted from tracking back in the 80s and
90s, to fixed pole mounts set due south with adjustable tilt, to now I'm
running PV Watts and seeing that roof mounts at imperfect tilt and
azimuth can still have the most energy for the money: Just add more modules.
That's funny too, because if you had shown me a roof array like that 20
years ago, I would have been poo pooing it for days.(That's not even
close to south!!...) Our racking and tracking choices have changed
significantly now that PV is under $1/ watt.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 9/6/18 9:06 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
> What am I missing here, Bill? If the tracker costs $10,000 (plus
> installation) to carry 24 modules, that's $416 per module, which is
> more than the cost of the modules themselves. I don't get the point of
> doing this. It almost sounds like consumer vanity - "Folks do like to
> watch the slow dance of the modules".
> How can tracking be justified?
>
> Allan Sindelar
> Sindelar Solar
> 505 780-2738
>
> On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:26 PM, Bill Hennessy <bill at berkssolar.com
> <mailto:bill at berkssolar.com>> wrote:
>
>> Chris--
>>
>> We installed two 24-module AllEarth dual-axis trackers at the request
>> of a homeowner two years ago--"I like companies that are from Vermont."
>> inspite of a higher cost as compared to a ground mount equivalent w
>> Krinner groundscrews.
>>
>> You can buy either the tracker alone or complete kits. The 24-module
>> tracker is about $10,000. The concrete base was fairly easy to
>> install. I think the hole was 4x4x4 with rebar crosshatch. The frame
>> is assembled on the ground and lifted to the pole (you need about
>> a18-foot lift). Our mini excavator was barely tall enough. We did the
>> frame layout and assembly on the excavator trailer and it worked
>> well. If you go to Vermont, they have a free two-day training program
>> where you assemble a tracker.
>>
>> One of the trackers had an early issue with a stuck hydraulic valve.
>> Warranty service was prompt and knowledgeable and we haven't had
>> issues since. We did have to upsize the Fronius inverters. My design
>> mistake. I typically oversize the array to the inverter, but in the
>> spring, the arrays were always clipping.
>>
>> Folks do like to watch the slow dance of the modules.
>> Bill Hennessy
>> Berks Solar, LLC
>> 371 Centennial Rd
>> Mertztown, PA 19539
>>
>> o 610 682 4300
>> c 484 560 4666
>> NABCEP certified installer
>> PA contractor #44411
>> www.berkssolar.com <http://www.berkssolar.com>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* "chris at OasisMontana.com <mailto:chris at oasismontana.com>"
>> <chris at OasisMontana.com <mailto:chris at oasismontana.com>>
>> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 6, 2018 3:37 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>>
>> Hi Folks:I appreciate the input but I am looking for TYPES of
>> trackers that you may be selling (and yes, I told him about adding
>> more & cheaper solar modules than investing in a tracker, but it’s
>> the customer’s decision).Zomeworks is not what the client wants; I
>> would prefer dual axis; the customer’s in north central CA with a
>> good resource.I say go with Array Technologies but I would think
>> there must be something new and improved by now.
>> --Chris Daum/Oasis Montana
>> *From:*RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf Of *Dana
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:18 AM
>> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>> I second this observation.
>> I now live again off grid in a narrow N-S canyon in south central
>> Idaho. Having limited ground space [thanks to county regs] & not
>> wanting roof mounted arrays to have to clear snow from, trackers VS.
>> fix top of pole mounts enhance my output & they reduced the # of
>> modules required for my homes projected load design.
>>
>> * 6400 watts rated output on 2 Array Tech tracking arrays. Fixed
>> would have required 3 arrays & 6-8 more modules. Trackers are
>> programed to full vertical in winter to shed overnight snow
>> dumps, this saves time & effort in the morning when it’s a Powder
>> day! Can’t miss those Powder mornings.
>> * 5400 watts per hour in the summer when hot.
>> * Up to 8400 watts per hour on a cold winter day. Exactly what I
>> needed 31+% additional output with a 4-hour window of sun at New
>> Year’s Day. So far, my generator has never started…
>>
>> *A repeat from a previous RE conversation years ago, I had to see for
>> myself &:
>> Last house in CO, I had [6] 250-watt mod on a tracker & [6] 250-watt
>> mod on a fixed roof array.
>> The tracker consistently outproduced the fixed array by 32% averaged
>> over the year.
>> Trackers have their place and advantages. That said, with todays
>> $/watt o modules if you have the space fixed is a more cost-effective
>> way to proceed.
>> Signed - A 25-year tracker advocate.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.
>> *C - 208.721.7003 dana at solarwork.com <mailto:dana at solarwork.com>*
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.biz/>
>> _"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" _
>> *P*Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>> *On Behalf Of
>> *Chris Schaefer
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 06, 2018 8:27 AM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>> To All,
>> Seen it first hand with existing Northeast offgrid clients that had
>> old pole mounts with lots of generator usage during the winter
>> months. Added a single 12 module DAT and generator usage was down to
>> as little as twice in the entire winter. Others usage was down to
>> just a handful of times required from genny. They are great at
>> shedding snow. Bottom line is generator usage was cut in most cases
>> by 75% or better. I'm a believer here in upstate NY.
>> Christopher
>> Chris Schaefer’s
>> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>
>> /Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
>> //5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
>> www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail:
>> //chris at solarandwindfx.com <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>/
>> //
>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
>> willing to work and give to those who would not."
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Andrew Truitt <atruitt at gmail.com
>> <mailto:atruitt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> These guys are new but I've heard good things:
>> http://www.sulasindustries.com/
>> *
>> Regards, *
>> *Andrew Truitt | DRV <http://dr.ventures/>*
>> www.dr.ventures <http://www.dr.ventures/>
>> d: 202.486.7507
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66
>> Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132
>>
>> "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I
>> prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an
>> enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from
>> us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8
>> minutes. And it's wireless!"
>>
>> ~William McDonough
>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:38 PM Sindelar Solar
>> <Allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:Allan at sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>> No, I'm with you on this.Given the the greatest boost (~+/-
>> 30%) of daily tracking is during the summer and most
>> stand-alone applications are winter-peak (where tracking adds
>> at best 10-15%), seasonal water pumping is about the only
>> time when small-scale tracking is justified over simply
>> adding array. Any pumping where the source is slow enough
>> that the length of the day becomes an important factor, like
>> drip irrigation or a very low yield well or spring, is worth
>> looking into. But that's about it in my experience.
>> Allan
>> --
>> *Allan Sindelar*
>> allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
>> *505 780-2738 cell*
>> On 9/5/2018 5:53 PM, solar1online at charter.net
>> <mailto:solar1online at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>> I thought since solar PV prices have come down
>> (understatement), is it not more cost effective to buy
>> more modules than a tracker? Are there scenarios that the
>> above would not ring true? (As I remember, off grid water
>> pumping for livestock ponds may still be an exception as
>> also, limited space.) Please advise.
>> Thanks,
>> Bill Loesch
>> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
>> 314 631 1094
>> ----------------------------------------
>> From: chris at OasisMontana.com <mailto:chris at OasisMontana.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday September 5 2018 3:45:25PM
>> Dear people:
>> What trackers are y’all using nowadays? I have a
>> customer (with a great site) who’s insisting on a pair.
>> We’ve sold Zomeworks and Array Technologies in the past,
>> but I know there are more offerings now.
>> Thanks for the input!
>> Chris Daum
>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>> 406-777-4309 fax
>> www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com/>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Chris Schaefer’s
>> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/>
>> /Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
>> //5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
>> www.solarandwindfx.com <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail:
>> //chris at solarandwindfx.com <mailto:chris at solarandwindfx.com>/
>> //
>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
>> willing to work and give to those who would not."
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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