[RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown and January 1 2019 option?

Fri Jul 6 17:05:23 EDT 2018

Rebekah...Thank you for your work.....That was another HUGE improvement in
NEC 2017. Some AHJs using NEC 2014 were firm on the big DC battery bank
690.12 RS shunt trip breakers....nightmare of both cost and installation
for off-grid folks.

Dan Fink
Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
NABCEP Associate

970.672.4342

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 2:57 PM, Rebekah Hren <rebekah.hren at gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe there was a big improvement for off-grid systems as relates to
> RS in the 2017 NEC - the diagrams in 690.1(b) all show the PV system
> disconnect clearly now.  If you check out the diagrams you can see that
> energy storage/battery circuits, including the battery-based inverter
> whether AC or DC coupled, are outside the PV system boundary, thus not PV
> system circuits, thus not subject to RS.
>
> Also, the NEC 2020 1st draft report has been published
> <https://downloads.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition>,
> so get your comments submitted!
>
> Rebekah Hren
> Member, NEC CMP-4
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 2:22 PM Dan Fink <danbob88 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with you, Ray, as a purely off-grid solar installer and
>> troubleshooter. I think all that was accomplished in NEC 2017 on this issue
>> is that non-habitable structures, like the common off-grid 'power shed'
>> don't need 690.12 RS anymore.
>>
>> Dan Fink
>> Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
>> IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
>> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
>> NABCEP Associate
>>
>> 970.672.4342
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Ray <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Midnite has some string level and module level 690.12 disconnects that
>>> wire in like an optimizer or micro inverter, so those should be able to
>>> meet the 2019 requirements.  However beware:  they as of yet still don't
>>> have a reasonable disconnect system to disconnect the charge controller
>>> which has capacitors that back feed the PV line for up to 90 seconds.  They
>>> have a DC GFI breaker with remote trip capability but it takes 4 spaces, so
>>> with multiple charge controllers it turns into a wiring mess really fast.
>>>
>>> I actually wired in some 60 amp rated diodes on one system to get it to
>>> pass inspection; what a joke, going back to 1980s equipment to pass 2017
>>> code.    690.12 is an absolute nightmare for small off grid.  There really
>>> should be some exemptions for small arrays (under 3 kW) and under 100 vdc.
>>> Fire fighters are not going to get there till the structure is down
>>> anyway,  Response times are up to an hour for remote locations with
>>> volunteer fire departments.  Its not like in town at all;  no one is going
>>> to go on the roof on an off grid fire.
>>>
>>> On the flip side, there are real dangers created by nuisance tripping of
>>> 690.12 equipment.  Again, on grid it's a mere inconvenience, but off grid
>>> it could mean spoiled food, frozen water lines, shut down heating systems
>>> in subzero temperatures, and for the elderly: loss of their breathing
>>> machines.  I've already had a 74 year old customer climbing on their roof
>>> multiple times to reset the Rapid shutdown equipment after nuisance trips.
>>> Are we going to wait until we get someone killed in the name of "Safety"
>>> before we fix this?
>>>
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> 303 505-8760
>>>
>>> On 7/6/18 9:55 AM, cwarfel wrote:
>>>
>>> I am wondering about the experience installers have with a DC coupled
>>> multimode system design that will comply after January 1 with what I
>>> feel is the biggest mistake/poorly guided part of NEC 2017 690, and that
>>> is 690.12.  We are installing two Outback systems with the remote c
>>> ontrolled combiner and even that won't comply after January 1 unless we parallel
>>> more subarrays (There's safety for you, lower voltage-higher amperage!).
>>> Thanks for any insight.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>          Christopher Warfel, PE
>>>        ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
>>> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>>>                (401)466-8978
>>>
>>> [image: EEI logo] <http://entech-engineering.com>
>>>
>>>
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>
> --
> Tel: 336.266.8800
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ 091209-85
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