[RE-wrenches] Outback inverter-generator question

[Sindelar Solar]

Ron,

I agree with Jerry here, and will add a bit more. I'll venture that 
neither generator is being seriously hurt, but neither is what's 
happening good for them.

This is a case where more specific info is needed to diagnose the 
problem remotely. VFX or VFXR? Which specific Honda generator? What is 
the site elevation for deration (looks like you're in BC, so maybe 2,000')?

This points out the importance of including a Mate in such a remote 
location, as that's your only diagnostic tool when something goes amiss. 
In that region with its short cloudy days the loss of generator charging 
in winter could be dangerous or worse.

I'm gonna guess that he has the Honda EM 5000is generator. I haven't 
seen or worked with that model, but I'm familiar with the older 3000is. 
These are inverter-based generators. The 3000 was a fair choice with the 
early Outback FX and VFX series, because the 120V output matched the 
input of the Outback. (The primary issue was overly-fast overload 
response, faster than the FX could control its surge input while 
charging batteries. The gennie would sometimes pop its output breaker if 
a pump or fridge came on; if the owner didn't hear the engine speed drop 
it could run for hours without doing anything.) The 5000 is 120/240, 
with a user-accessible *"120/240V Selector Switch: *Choose between using 
both 120 and 240 Volts, or 120 Volts only. This allows for the total 
generator output to be available through any of the 120 volt outlets, 
limited only by the capacity of the individual outlet."

My guess is the customer has accidentally set the switch on 120/240, so 
only one leg is feeding the FX. The FX is set to take the full 120V 
output, so is overloading the 1/2-output leg. The inverter can't hold 
acceptable voltage and unlatches, then repeats its input sequence. When 
the load drops out the gennie drops to idle. Have him check this switch 
first.

If not this you may have to do a call, bringing a Mate with you. (I 
don't know if a modern Mate3 will work with the non-R VFX, but an OB 
tech can likely tell you, if you can reach one.)

Good luck diagnosing at a distance - I hope that it's just the switch.

Allan

On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
> Ron
> A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill and
> only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen them with
> hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so it might be
> over throttling the little inverter. You did not say anything about the
> batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss match it is not
> surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type panel or anything
> besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see parts required to make
> this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit if there was no proper
> programming done. these can be fun to get all fixed up right and doing what
> they are designed to do.
> Jerry
> 255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with this
> as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the batteries
> were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l did not take
> any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not sealed AGM's
>
> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young <solareagle at solareagle.com>
> wrote:
>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter in
>> June. He’s using a Honda generator and has recently started having issues.
>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but I
>> believe this is because he doesn’t have good ventilation around it. He is
>> probably also running high on the loads. He doesn’t have a Mate so can’t
>> identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am currently unable to
>> travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major BC wildfires).
>>
>> Here is his recent email:
>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and throwing
>> an error.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since you
>> installed it.
>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes to
>> float, the generator goes into a high rpm.
>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a low
>> rpm, not putting out much power.  Will run a tool, but still won’t hold a
>> higher rpm.
>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be doing
>> fine for about 1.5 hours.
>> -Now it’s doing the same thing as the other generator.  The inverter
>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the generator
>> rpm go up.
>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then the
>> inverter re-engages.
>>
>> What the heck could this be?  I don’t want to fry the borrowed generator,
>> but we can’t systematically bypass the inverter, and the house requires the
>> power.
>>
>> Ron Young
>> earthRight - Solareagle

*Allan Sindelar*
allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*