[RE-wrenches] lithium batteries

[Glenn Burt]

The sonnen eco series of products were available before the PW2, and are available today through distributors.
They also take AC in and out, with batteries and inverter internal in a sleek enclosure. They are programmable for exporting restrictions.

-Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Darryl Thayer
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 12:08 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] lithium battereis

Hello Jay and Larry.
As I mentioned I have had experience with only 3 systems,  I have another one coming up.  The charge controller problem has occurred in all of my systems,  But this is perhaps a misunderstanding on my part.  I used manufactures data, trying to attain maximum life.  As mentioned by others, I would not install a system without BMS built in.

I am interested in powerwall-2 AC as it seems to have some advantage in no export, and the glamour of LI.  I have not been able to get one, except through giving the project to a competitor.  Does anyone else make a similar product?  And does anyone have information on the actual product as far as pass-through and turn-down for no export systems?

Thanks to both of you and others for the information.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems < larry at starlightsolar.com> wrote:

> Hello Darryl,
>
> Quote "You must be careful of LI because if you are floating, the 
> voltage drops so little your CC will not necessarily pick-up.”
>
> We have sold hundreds of Li-ion batteries over the last 4 years. No 
> one has had a problem with a PV solar charge controller or battery 
> charger providing current when a load is applied. If the battery 
> voltage is at equilibrium with the charger, float mode and current 
> basically zero, the slightest load will be directed to the charge 
> source as it attempts to maintain voltage.
>
> Hey Jay,
>
> We sell Relion with cylindrical cells and prismatic cells from Elite 
> Power Solutions (GBS) and LiFeBlue Battery. We have never had a cell 
> failure with any battery yet so as for cell quality, all brands are 
> working well. The problems we have had are always with the EMS systems.
>
> My thoughts comparing the two battery types are one type has fewer 
> points of failure. In a 100AH 12 volt pack using cylindrical cells, 
> you have many dozens of batteries and connections compared to 4 to 16 
> prismatic cells. I know Tesla cars have worked extremely well with 
> 7000+ cylindrical cells but he has spent millions making it work. In 
> the Li battery market we are involved with, I’m not so sure the 
> manufacturers have provided the same level of QC.
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2017, at 8:05 PM, Darryl Thayer <darylsolar1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have only limited experience with Lithium batteries.  But in that 
> experience, a module of small cylindrical cells will have a higher 
> power, faster charge, and discharge.  For the same chemistry, the 
> prism cells will have a little higher energy density.  For long cycle 
> life and slow aging, the differences in battery additives meaning the 
> manufacturer are paramount.  In using Li-ion there are a few tricks.  
> The voltage is very stable, so you can not use voltage for the state 
> of charge. For LA you will float 13.4 forever, then when you draw 
> power, the voltage drops.  even at low draw, the voltage drops to the 
> 12.6 range.  You must be careful of LI because if you are floating, 
> the voltage drops so little your CC will not necessarily pick-up.  
> Some manufacturers give you instruction via mod bus or some form of 
> communication. So ask your CC supplier and your battery people good luck some do not even understand their own equipment.
>
> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 10:16 AM, jay <jay.peltz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > To follow along with the lithium questions,
> >
> > I’m wondering what thoughts/information people have on prismatic vs 
> > cylindrical lithium family batteries?
> >
> > My questions are quality,cycle life, pros/cons,recycling?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > jay
>
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