[RE-wrenches] Conext SW 4024 with bad firmware

Thu Dec 29 18:00:28 EST 2016

Lou,
I would add that this problem could be solved by removing any auto gen=20
start function and controlling the generator manually. Then the default=20
start/stop procedure is user-controlled: check monitor/start=20
gennie/check operation; when done, turn off charging at SCP/cool=20
down/shut off gennie. Voila! no low-hertz glitches. I have long=20
discouraged auto-start in residential off grid systems, recommending=20
instead user involvement and manual operation of the gennie.

I have installed several SW Conext systems, so far without a single=20
issue after commissioning. I applaud Schneider's efforts to turn the=20
wreckage that they paid Xantrex way too much for into a decent product=20
line with good support.
Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

On 12/29/2016 1:35 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
> I've seen  similar weirdness with many systems of various brands. The=20
> issue seems to be having the generator shutting down while still under=20
> load, with as you noted, the frequency and voltage dropping, and the=20
> inverter not transferring quick enough.
> Basically I suggest to my customers having similar problems to:
> A) First, wait for the charge rate to come down, then
> B) shut down any other large loads, (ie wait for the water pump to=20
> finish pumping) then
> C) manually switch the generator Breaker off,  which allows a cleaner,=20
> quicker transfer.
>
> Some generators have a cool down period after being signaled to shut=20
> off, which solves the problem, too.  Having auto control just shut=20
> down the generator hard under load is always going to be rough. I=20
> wouldn't blame it all on Schneider, although it sounds like in your=20
> case the Conext is extending the low frequency time period, and making=20
> it even worse.
> A relay might fix the problem too: first have the relay transfer the=20
> loads, and then send the signal to shut down the generator after.
>
> Besides the firmware issue, I think you're noticing this problem more,=20
> because of all the new arc fault junk in the house.  IMHO, arc fault=20
> shouldn't even be required on off grid systems with less than 70 amps=20
> capacity.  Unless they've recently changed the UL testing, arc fault=20
> breakers need a min of 70 amp to even work properly.  Of course=20
> they're annoyingly easy to trip when the frequency and voltage get=20
> weird, so off grid all those arc fault breakers are Not going to trip=20
> when they should, but Will trip when they shouldn't.  More waste of=20
> time and money off grid. Again, just my opinion.
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 12/29/2016 12:27 PM, Lou Russo wrote:
>> Wrenches,
>>
>> I recently installed a Schneider Conext SW 4024, Schnieder's DC=20
>> Distribution panel, AC Distribution panel, SCP, and the AGS. It was=20
>> to be a straightforward inverter swap, Xantrex 4024 to the Conext SW=20
>> setup. The actual installation went fine. I did switch over the house=20
>> wiring from 120 to 240  as well as the diesel genset.
>>
>> After a steep learning curve with the client all seemed well. 1 week=20
>> later she called and says the power behaves oddly as the generator is=20
>> shutting down. Symptoms are some arc fault breakers trip and the=20
>> compressor on her fridge sounds like its bogging down. I make the 45=20
>> minute drive out and started my search. This is a site with 3=20
>> buildings on 3 acres. I double checked all my wiring at the inverter,=20
>> then moved onto the various buildings checking for redundant neutral=20
>> to grounds, proper bonding, etc=E2=80=A6 Surprisingly although not great=
=20
>> workmanship everything is where it is supposed to be. I decided to=20
>> give the AC input on the inverter it's own dedicated neutral as at=20
>> this point I was reaching for straws and the installation manual was=20
>> unclear about this detail. Still nothing. A call to Schnieder=20
>> confirmed that there was no setting I was missing.
>>
>> I placed another call to Schnieder tech support. They did and have=20
>> continued to answer the phone promptly. It did take a bit of chasing=20
>> them but I finally got a answer that there Level 3 folks can=20
>> reproduce the error. The inverter is following the frequency of the=20
>> genset as it winds down down to 40hrtz. This is after the AC transfer=20
>> inside the inverter has happened. During the cool down period=20
>> everything is fine. This happens as the genset is actual shutting off=20
>> and spinning down to a stop. They say this a firmware issue and that=20
>> it will take months to push out as is needs to be UL listed. In the=20
>> meantime I have a pissed off client, her oven went belly up on the=20
>> low frequency voltage, there is concern about possible unseen damage=20
>> to her new water pump, and I  wasted countless hours of my own time=20
>> attempting to make the situation right. All of this due to a firmware=20
>> that was released with a fatal flaw and can not be changed for months.
>>
>> I am extremely disappointed in Schneider. I have been hesitant use=20
>> them over the years as I was still scarred from the Xantrex days. My=20
>> =E2=80=9Cbeta=E2=80=9D test went will with a early version I installed 2=
 years ago so=20
>> I figured it was a safe move. Obviously I was wrong. Lesson learned=20
>> stick with Outback and SMA.
>>
>> So I have 2 questions for the list.
>>
>> 1.Has anybody else on the list seen this issue and corrected it=20
>> regardless of the firmware? I have installed one other conext sw=20
>> about 2 years ago when it first came out. The setup is very similar=20
>> except that it is 48V and has a very old firmware. I went out to this=20
>> old site to confirm all is well and it is fine.
>>
>> 2.Does anybody have a good contact at Schneider that could be of=20
>> help? I tried to contact Sandra Herrera as she was a great help years=20
>> ago, but her phone number no longer works.
>>
>> 3.Does anybody have an old version of the Conext firmware lying=20
>> around they could point me to? The website does not seem to have old=20
>> versions.
>>
>> Any input is greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Schnieder, if you have a presence here contact me.
>>
>>
>> Aloha,
>>
>> Lou Russo
>> lou at spreesolarsystems.com <mailto:lou at spreesolarsystems.com>
>> 440 345 6762
>> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>> CT-34322
>>
>>
>>
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