[RE-wrenches] Fwd: RE: Grid neutral

[Allan Sindelar]

Wrenches,
Is there such a thing as a "grid neutral"? I have been providing design=20
support to a client for a large off grid system; a prepper, rare in=20
these parts. He claims that utility current is carried in part through=20
the ground and in part through a neutral conductor, and such a "utility=20
neutral" is deliberately undersized. At first I pushed back (see below).=20
Now I just wonder what Wrenches more knowledgeable than I am will say.
Thank you,
Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
allan at sindelarsolar.com <mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Date: 	Thu, 24 Nov 2016 11:25:36 -0700


Allan

Happy thanksgiving. Sorry for the slow reply; overwhelmed here.

All wet sorry. If you look at the power lines you will see two or three=20
wires at top of pole and the one smaller one a little ways down the=20
pole. This is the power station neutral.

The hots bidirectional is an explanation that helps people understand=20
current but is not totally clear.

Even if you use that visualization in order for the electrons on the hot=20
to oscillate they heed a path to oscillate into and out of

That is the =E2=80=9Cneutral=E2=80=9D.

Bottom line is from the power station and in your home you have at least=20
one hot and one neutral.

You can actually use the hot to light up a lite bulb by connecting the=20
other side of the lite bulb to the earth.

This one way you can get electrocuted.

I touched the hot side of a 220 circuit and the current went thru me and=20
into the earth=E2=80=A6not much fun.

This has been openly publicly discussed and one of the electrical=20
association advised the power companies to increase the size of the=20
neutral to solve many issues, such as cows giving less milk and problems=20
with electric current in homes. The power companies even openly discuss=20
this.

In *remote rural areas* of Australia, I have seen electricity=20
distribution using SWER (Single-Wire Earth Return); just one wire is fed=20
to the property at a high voltage, with the current returning via the=20
ground.  At the property, a transformer turns the high voltage into=20
normal residential voltages on a pair of wires (230VAC in Australia vs=20
2x115V in some other countries). But this SWER system is inefficient,=20
and the supply voltage is poorly regulated; it is a rare exception - it=20
is only done because of the high cost of delivering two wires in remote=20
areas.

In *metropolitan areas*, you will typically see 4 wires passing down the=20
street. This consists of three phases of "Active", plus a "Neutral". You=20
could /imagine/ the Active carrying current "from" the power grid, and=20
the Neutral carrying the current "back to" the power grid (even though=20
the current flow is symmetrical).

There is lots of info online if you wish to learn more about this.

Take care, Robert

*From:*Allan Sindelar [mailto:allan at sindelarsolar.com]
*Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2016 10:18 PM

Robert,
I'm neither an electrical engineer or a utility employee, so I may be=20
all wet here, and if so please dry me off with a straight-up=20
explanation. But this whole argument seems specious to me, as it=20
addresses a "grid neutral".

My reasoning is this - there is no such animal as a "grid neutral" in=20
utility lines, so how is this issue even relevant? The "hots" are=20
bidirectional; only when the utility power is stepped down at the=20
transformer at the home is a reference neutral created. To say that the=20
current "cannot all go back thru the neutral since it is not large=20
enough BY DESIGN" seems to me an absurd concept since there is no=20
neutral in utility power distribution.

Am I missing something?
Allan

On 10/2/2016 7:51 PM, Robert wrote:

    Allan

    Here is the info I said I would send:
    _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DaJOB2FIqUiQ_. Listen about 20
    minutes at least.

    All current that goes =E2=80=9Cout=E2=80=9D on the two residential or t=
hree
    commercial hots goes back on the grid neutral

    AND thru the ground'. It cannot all go back thru the neutral since
    it is not large enough  BY DESIGN. So=E2=80=A6. That means we really do=
n=E2=80=99t
    have a clean ground anymore.

    Thank you for your time today. It is enjoyable to speak with you.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.=
org/attachments/20161125/088ac55e/attachment.htm>