[RE-wrenches] Battery Box Construction

Fri Jan 29 13:04:44 EST 2016

Hi Shasta;

Sounds like you get the prize for battery box diligence. Lots of good=20
ideas there, although I've seen very bad things happen with steel bottom=20
trays for batteries.
I've also seen spray on bed liner get peeled right off by acid, so I=20
would go with all plastic or concrete on any inside battery surfaces. =20
The stepped concrete with floor drain sounds really good too.
This Pic is of a 10 year old coated steel battery pan.  Tyvek suit time.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 1/29/2016 10:08 AM, Shasta Daiku wrote:
> I have always been dismayed with wooden battery boxes used in=20
> professionally installed power systems. It seems vey=20
> DIYer/HomePoweresque. Where else is wood used in electrical=20
> installations? I have on occasion built some BB plywood core boxes,=20
> sheetmetal outer skin/ FRP inner skin/ raw edges and corners banded=20
> with SS angle/ rubber gaskets with lots of latches.
>
> I build boxes that are made of either plastic or metal depending on=20
> the environment and usage they=E2=80=99ll see. Plastic, that is HDPE or=20
> acrylics, I order online cut to size, or from a glass shop. 1/4=E2=80=9D =

> thickness. Metal, heavy gauge sheetmetal, I have cut by fabricators,=20
> and then coated with non-corrosive/conductive coatings by a cabinet shop.
>
> Here are some general guidelines
>
> -With either material, I keep the panels sized small. Less than 2=E2=80=
=99 x=20
> 2=E2=80=99 is nice, both for shipping and handling.
>
> -Panels can be attached to each other using H and U channel, and angle=20
> stock (which also gives rigidity). Lids are usually sectional rather=20
> than a heavy
>  single lid. Sometimes, on plastic lids I rout rabbets on the=20
> connecting seams so that the there is a half lap joint.
>
> -Plastic can be drilled and tapped. I generally avoid using adhesives=20
> because they are toxic as Hell and pieces want to slide out of alignment.
>
> -When batteries sit on metal racks, I enclose the racks with acrylic=20
> sheets using rare earth magnets. Magnets are attached to the acrylic=20
> with epoxy or the
>  magnet will have a counter sunk hole and machine screws can be used.
>
> -I seldom build a box with a back wall. Instead, I apply a sheet of=20
> FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) to the wall that the box sits=20
> against, smooth side out.
>  Side panels butt against, and are attached to the wall using U=20
> channel or angle stock. This accommodates a wall that may not be flat=20
> or a
>  wall/floor intersection that isn=E2=80=99t square. Corners, That is side=
s to=20
> front pieces are made with angle stock. They knock apart by using wing=20
> nuts or
>  magnets. That way the front of the box can be removed for=20
> placement/replacement.
>
> -I stopped using hinges for lids along time ago, when I started making=20
> lids that were sectional. Lately I run a length of U channel against=20
> the back wall, the
>  length of the box. The width of the channel is wider than the=20
> thickness of the sheet, so that the sheet will slide in easily. The=20
> lid section is removed rather
>  hinged up. You know the saying =E2=80=9CDon=E2=80=99t let the lid hit yo=
u in the head!"
>  -Over the years I have tried a lot of coatings in my metal boxes. All=20
> have held up well, but I have found that engine compartment type=20
> undercoatings to be
>   my favorite.
>
> -If I have a say in the power room/shed design, I will specify a=20
> concrete slab with a shallow basin for the batteries to sit in. The=20
> basin has a floor drain and is epoxy coated. Otherwise I have a=20
> sheetmetal tray fabricated and have it coated. The tray is separate=20
> from the enclosure.
>
>
> -In very hard use applications I have the box made by a company that=20
> outfits utility and work trucks with beds and boxes. These are just=20
> large custom
>  =E2=80=9Ctruck boxes=E2=80=9D
>
> -With smaller banks, I have successfully retrofitted both gang boxes=20
> and truck/utility boxes. The simplest setup being adding some cross=20
> members to a
>  $300.00 gang box so that the batteries sat elevated within. That=20
> makes a very nice servicing height! Again interiors are coated.
>
> Growing up, I had a lot of exposure to both industrial off-grid power=20
> systems (mining, oil/gas, research, telecomm) and Maritime systems and=20
> thats
> where my sensibilities originated. Lately I have found myself the sole=20
> off-grid specialist in a fairly vast area, and so what Im doing mostly=20
> is replacing battery banks. Lots of battery banks, and lots of rotten,=20
> corroded, nasty toxic boxes! A few weeks ago my helper and I donned=20
> Tyvex suits, rubber gloves,
> goggles, and respirators to Demo a box that was in a dilapidated and=20
> soon to be be razed structure. The general contractor and client stood=20
> by laughing and commented that it looked like a scene from Breaking Bad!
>
>
>> On Jan 28, 2016, at 9:18 PM, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com=20
>> <mailto:ray at solarray.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all the replies so far.  I've tried foundation=20
>> waterproofing membrane for a couple of years, but found it will=20
>> deteriorate in high acid concentrations.  IT gets all gooey and=20
>> begins to dissolve.  It had peel N stick adhesive, and seemed like a=20
>> good idea, until later.  (it was HDPE?)
>> I've seen construction 10 mil plastic sheeting hold a gal of acid for=20
>> many months, so I know that at least works for acid.
>>
>> The pond liner looks good as well as Roy's wall plastic, but the 1/8"=20
>> polypropylene would seem to be possibly more durable for about the=20
>> same $$.  Plastic welding looks relatively easy with a heat gun and=20
>> special tip on a soldering iron, too.  I'll report back on what we=20
>> actually do.
>>
>> As always thanks for the input, and I welcome all further comments. =20
>> I feel battery enclosures are a somewhat neglected part of off grid=20
>> design.
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> 303 505-8760
>> On 1/28/2016 7:06 PM, frenergy wrote:
>>> Add to the list...I've had good luck with Grace roofing=20
>>> underlayment: tough and to a degree, self-healing, sticks to itself=20
>>> (and anything it comes in contact with) very well making seams=20
>>> secure, easy to find at building supply store, sticks aggressively=20
>>> to battery box sides without mechanical fasteners, experience has=20
>>> shown it resists acid.  As with other solutions, something to=20
>>> uniformly distribute the weight and irregular bottoms of batteries=20
>>> should be employed.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>> Feather River Solar Electric
>>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>>> 4291 Nelson St.
>>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>>> 530.284.7849
>>> www.frenergy.net
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/28/2016 5:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>>>> Ray,
>>>> Just a couple of weeks ago we installed a 24V HUP set in an=20
>>>> existing installation. We had an existing plywood battery box made=20
>>>> of Baltic Birch (the 9-ply 12mm thick plywood typically used for=20
>>>> cabinet drawer carcases) with a liner made of 40(?)-mil pond liner=20
>>>> material. We removed the six cells from the steel case, set the=20
>>>> case in place in the plywood box and lowered the cells into it.=20
>>>> However, the box had a non-removable 5" wide strip across the top=20
>>>> rear, and we needed to slide the entire 1100 pound case back about=20
>>>> 8" in order to fit both steel cases.
>>>>
>>>> Before setting the steel case in the box I sprayed the floor of the=20
>>>> pond liner with a layer of the new spray pulling lube from Klein=20
>>>> Tools, then set the steel case in place and lowered the cells.=20
>>>> Using a Porta-Power and some blocking, we slid the case into place=20
>>>> with little effort.
>>>>
>>>> You might find that vinyl pond liner works well in a plywood box.=20
>>>> We found it at a Home Depot.
>>>> Allan
>>>>
>>>> *Allan Sindelar*
>>>> allan at sindelarsolar.com
>>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>>> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
>>>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>>>> Founder (Retired),Positive Energy, Inc.
>>>> *505 780-2738 cell*
>>>>
>>>> **
>>>> On 1/28/2016 3:25 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
>>>>> Hi All;
>>>>>
>>>>> We're looking to improve our battery box construction, and are=20
>>>>> considering using 1/8" think polypropylene sheeting.  I've used=20
>>>>> small premade boxes before, but this will be for a HUP install,=20
>>>>> and we would want to build the box around the batteries after. =20
>>>>> Does anyone have experience/ comments on welding plastic?  The=20
>>>>> alternative would be to just seal the seams with acid resistant=20
>>>>> caulking. (silicone, Geocell, ?)
>>>>> I've had good luck in the past just using 10 mil plastic sheeting=20
>>>>> stapled up on the inside of a plywood box, but we will be scooting=20
>>>>> 1000 lb batteries around on it, so I don't think the sheeting will=20
>>>>> hold up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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