[RE-wrenches] Battery Charge Settings.
frenergy
frenergy at psln.com
Tue Jan 19 11:20:22 EST 2016
Steve,
So the message I am getting is even though we are always=20
installing a BTS, seasonal adjustments are still necessary...to both V=20
settings /and absorption times? /Definitely, a major part of my job in=20
off-grid is to assess as best as possible, the customer's system use=20
habits to be able to make the kinds of adjustment to which you speak. =20
I'm always dinking around with these settings because customers=20
'off-grid habits change and I don't fully trust the BTS to accurately do=20
its job in part because there is no perfect place to secure it...the=20
"best" place (the battery terminal?) leaves little space for the sensor,=20
plus its too far from the actual chemical reaction we are trying to=20
sense for accurate CC adjustments.
Please shed some light on how to deal with new batteries. My=20
experience is when we install a new set, they were not necessarily of=20
the same batch or age, sometimes I wonder how long they have been in the=20
"transit" chain. I've gotten into the habit of discharging the pack=20
~50% and adjusting up the absorb voltage and time several times to cook=20
them a little harder (watching temps) than settings 2-3 months down the=20
road.
Also, I'm curious when you say:"IEC testing requires the=20
batteries to come to full charge within the first 8-10 cycles" what is=20
their definition of "full charge"?...I can think of a few.
Thanks for your continued education on FLA batts.
Bill
On 1/19/2016 5:52 AM, Steve Higgins wrote:
>
> Good Morning Wrenches=E2=80=A6
>
> I=E2=80=99d like to take the recent Trojan thread to throw this out there!
>
> With the IEC certification, many battery manufactures are being forced=20
> to recommend higher settings to charge their batteries. The problem=20
> with off grid systems, or even some grid back up systems is the=20
> settings can/will vary from end user to end user and can be very=20
> difficult to determine. Try to avoid setting up a system and=20
> assuming that those settings will be good year round as settings in=20
> most systems need to adjusted at least twice, sometimes up to three=20
> times a year.
>
> For example, we are almost finished with IEC testing, the way they do=20
> this testing in short is they take a battery, charge it to full using=20
> mfg suggested settings, discharge it to 100% and they cycle the=20
> battery until it comes to full capacity. Don=E2=80=99t quote me, but I=
EC=20
> testing requires the batteries to come to full charge within the first=20
> 8-10 cycles. To do so, you need to be very aggressive on the=20
> charging settings.
>
> Now, most customers don=E2=80=99t cycle to 100% depth of discharge so end=
=20
> users don=E2=80=99t need to be so aggressive on charger settings, but we =
will=20
> be publishing revised charging parameters and instructions in the=20
> coming quarter. Bottom line, Bulk/Absorb Voltages @ 25 Deg C you=20
> will be advised to charge the Rolls Batteries at 2.45 to 2.5vpc. This=20
> number will vary based on how much the customer is using the system. =20
> A weekender cabin with a decent sized array (<10% of C20 Charge=20
> Current) will need closer to 2.4 to 2.45vpc, while a full timer (daily=20
> heavy cycles) will need a setting closer to the 2.5vpc rating.
>
> Remember, regardless of where you are in the world, unless the=20
> batteries are installed in a temperature controlled room where it=20
> fluctuates less than =C2=BD degree C, you should ALWAYS, ALWAYS use=20
> battery temperature compensation. Failure to do so, will always=20
> result in premature failure of the batteries.
>
> Settings are generally a suggestion, the problem is they (customers)=20
> should be looking at the SG=E2=80=99s at least on a quarterly basis and=20
> adjusting settings when necessary. Lower trending SG equal higher=20
> settings, higher SG equal lower settings. I find that too many people=20
> set up settings and forget them, until they have a problem. Normally=20
> I find with most customers they should have a bit lower settings from=20
> April to Sept, while settings should be higher from Oct thru March.
>
> Remember, the battery companies you are dealing with generally don=E2=80=
=99t=20
> have a lot of experience in solar=E2=80=A6 they are used to industrial=20
> applications where you see 8-12 hours of charging every single day. =20
> We all know that in most Off grid systems you are lucky to get 3-5=20
> hours, at best of decent charging a day.
>
> *Steve Higgins
> Technical Services Manager
> ***P: +1.902.597.4020
> M: +1.206.790.5840
> F: +1.902.597.8447
> *Surrette Battery Company
> *Exclusive manufacturer of
>
>
> *From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]=20
> *On Behalf Of *Theo Van
> *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 8:44 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16 charge settings
>
> No "settings recommend by Trojn"were shown.
> On Jan 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com=20
> <mailto:william at millersolar.com>> wrote:
>
> Colleagues:
>
> I have an off-grid customer for whom I replaced a set of 8 Trojan
> L-16s as well as upgrading her inverter and charge controller.=20
> Right after the job, we found several batteries with low specific
> gravity. We spoke with the local distributor and received two
> replacement batteries.
>
> The system continues to perform poorly. The customer EQs every 30
> days to 60 plus volts for 3 hours. They try to get a full bulk
> and absorption charge in every day but this time of year may not.
> The specific gravity readings continue to diverge and generally go
> lower.
>
> We contacted the distributor who told us they have had problems
> with Trojan batteries since the company was sold about two years
> ago. We were told they had a brand X battery that tested better
> than the Trojans. We agreed to try the Brand X but then were told
> that we had not charged the Trojans adequately. Below are the
> settings recommended directly by Trojan
>
> These settings are significantly higher than any I have used
> before. Also, I don=E2=80=99t recall it being possible to set differ=
ent
> bulk and absorption voltages with any of the equipment I use. I
> use Trace, Outback, Schneider default settings of 57.6 bulk, 54.4
> float and reprogram to 60.5 for equalization.
>
> I am curious about what charge settings you find successful for
> flooded lead-acid batteries and what any of you might think about
> the recommended settings as seen below. Do you feel it is
> practical to achieve these settings in an off-grid scenario?=20
> Would these high settings cause excessive water consumption?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> William Miller
>
> <image001.jpg>
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 805-438-5600
>
> I looked at the spreadsheet and the SG. readings across each
> battery are uniform which tells be that it is highly unlikely that
> anything is wrong with the batteries except for being
> under-charged. Take a look at our User=E2=80=99s Guide on the Trojan
> website on page 19 ( Recommended Charge Profile) or FLA batteries.
>
> The Bulk stage should be @ 59.3V, Absorb @ 58.8V, Float @ 54V and
> Equalization @ 64.8V. When the User notices drops in the SG such
> as in this document, an EQ charge should be performed in order to
> get the batteries back up to full charge (full charge SG being in
> the range of 1.270 to 1.280. When performing the EQ, the user
> should take SG reading for a =E2=80=9Cpilot=E2=80=9D battery every 30=
minutes
> until the voltages reach that range. Termination should happen
> when SG reaches full charge range or if battery temperature
> reaches 112 degrees F, which-ever comes first. SG readings can be
> taken during EQ, but you have to make sure that you bump the tiny
> gas bubbles off the Hydrometer float to prevent erroneous readings.
>
> Seeing the SG readings decreasing after each month is an
> indication that maybe the Absorb Time needs to be increased, maybe
> from 3 hours up to 4 or 5 hours.
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillis=
t.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
> This email and its attachments have been scanned by mailWatch E-Mail=20
> Firewall for viruses, spam, and malicious content. The information=20
> transmitted in this email is intended only for the entity or person to=20
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential/privileged=20
> material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and=20
> delete the material from any computer. Any review, retransmission,=20
> dissemination, or other use of this information by persons or entities=20
> other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.o=
rg/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.=
org/attachments/20160119/73f4f3ee/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: FRS_working_logo, 50%.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 8424 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.=
org/attachments/20160119/73f4f3ee/attachment.jpe>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/gif
Size: 564 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches_lists.re-wrenches.=
org/attachments/20160119/73f4f3ee/attachment.gif>
More information about the RE-Wrenches
mailing list