[RE-wrenches] L feet no flashing in shingle roof

Bill Loesch solar1online at charter.net
Wed Jul 4 15:25:10 EDT 2012 

David,

Why does your editor put Todd's articles (and use him as a cover story)=20
in your magazines (more than once, I believe) if it is not for his=20
__experience__?

The fact that there is a prescribed product (more than one in this case)=20
that gets blessed when old fashioned, time tested, craftsmanship has=20
already solved the problem is a testament to what payola will buy. No=20
leak, no negligence, no claim. But then your magazines wouldn't garner=20
such a big advertizing budget without all those manufacturers with new=20
and "improved" products. Additionally, this List would perhaps have to=20
find alternative funding, too.

If you are really interested in eliminating the "irresponsible,=20
fly-by-night, subsidy chasers" one easy way may be to eliminate the=20
subsidy.

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar


On 04-Jul-12 10:07 AM, David Brearley wrote:
>  Todd,
>
> The issue isn't whether your approach works, but whether it is=20
> defensible in the event that something leaks. Most solar contractors=20
> receive public funds (rebate monies, ARRA program distributions,=20
> etc.). Some of those companies are installing systems in a manner that=20
> is not building code compliant. It just takes a high profile leaky=20
> roof at a VA hospital or a public housing project where a solar system=20
> was installed in a manner that does not meet the building code to lose=20
> years of goodwill and support for the industry. Modules prices have=20
> fallen quite a bit, but we all loose if State and Federal or public=20
> (opinion) support for the industry goes away.
>
> Obviously, that's the worst case scenario: That somehow the industry=20
> gets painted as being made up of a bunch of irresponsible,=20
> fly-by-night, subsidy chasers. Probably nothing to worry about,=20
> though. I'm pretty sure there's no precedence for that sort of thing=20
> actually happening. Right?
>
> What's more likely is that AHJs will get hip to the fact that they=20
> need to inspect the building code compliance of roof attachments. When=20
> they do, which side of the curve will your company be on? (Since your=20
> mind seems to be made up, Todd, that question is addressed to List at=20
> large.)
>
> Happy Independence Day,
>
> David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
> SolarPro magazine
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer =E2=84=A2
> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com=20
> <mailto:david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
> Direct: 541.261.6545
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 10:37 PM, toddcory at finestplanet.com=20
> <mailto:toddcory at finestplanet.com> wrote:
>
>> i wasn't going to enter into this discussion, but this posting=20
>> prompted me.
>>
>> my most recent job was done with the assistance of the customer. he=20
>> and i have a long working history, my being his employee some 25=20
>> years ago installing shw systems in the area, and now he hiring me to=20
>> do his personal home's pv system.
>>
>> he insisted on straight L foot mounting without flashings... and i=20
>> have to agree. in the 25 to 30 years since we did those shw systems,=20
>> not a single one has leaked. plus, the installation was at the roof=20
>> ridgeline, so pv quick mounts wouldn't have worked anyway. we put 2 X=20
>> 8 blocking in the attic between the trusses to acomodate the mounting=20
>> bolts and used a nice fattie gob of black silicone on each foot,=20
>> which gooshed out when tightened. the mount will easily outlast the=20
>> roof... leak free.
>>
>> honestly, i don't care what the ubc/ibs says. if done properly,these=20
>> kinds of mounts are bombproof. years of experience backs this up.=20
>> also, i have seen plenty of 'code compliant' oatey no-caulk sewer=20
>> vent flashings with rotten rubber leaking into homes to know flashed=20
>> penetrations are no panacea either.
>>
>> todd
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 2:53pm, "David Brearley"=20
>> <david.brearley at solarprofessional.com=20
>> <mailto:david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>> said:
>>
>> +1 on the use of structural screws. We ran an article about lag=20
>> screws a couple years ago:
>>
>> http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=3DSP3_4_pg70_Shelly
>>
>> One of the things that surprised me when I read this manuscript is=20
>> how variable lag screws are in terms of construction and quality.=20
>> Besides the convenience of being able to drive a structural screw=20
>> without a pilot hole, the engineering specs are likely better=20
>> documented and the manufacturing tolerances are probably tighter as=20
>> well.
>>
>> FWIW: I think that using unflashed attachments in these litigious=20
>> times is unwise. It's not consistent with best practices in the=20
>> construction industry. It does not meet building codes. It violates=20
>> the roof warranty. It makes your competition look good.
>>
>> We ran our first article on this topic 4 years ago, in our inaugural=20
>> issue of SolarPro magazine:
>>
>> http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=3DSP1_1_pg72_Fain
>>
>> The industry has come a long way since then, both in terms of=20
>> awareness and in terms of off-the-shelf flashed attachment options.=20
>> There are so many quality flashed attachment solutions to chose from=20
>> now that I'm not sure why anyone would knowingly expose themselves to=20
>> a possible construction negligence claim.
>>
>> Drive straight,
>>
>> David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor
>> SolarPro magazine
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer =E2=84=A2
>> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com=20
>> <mailto:david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
>> Direct: 541.261.6545
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Garrison Riegel wrote:
>>
>>     The EcoFasten GF1 flashing is easy to install on a retrofit and
>>     will not necessarily add any height to the rail. If you do need
>>     to trim the flashings installed around the skylight, then I would
>>     recommend adding sealant to these penetrations.  We ditch the
>>     included lag and use a 5/16=E2=80=9D GRK RSS (self tapping structural
>>     screw).  The combination works great and does not require a pilot
>>     hole.
>>
>>     RSS:
>>     http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/RSS_1_2_information.htm
>>
>>     GF1
>>     http://ecofastensolar.com/pdf/GF1%20Cutsheets.pdf
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Garrison Riegel
>>     Project Manager
>>
>>     *Solar Service Inc*
>>     [p] 847-677-0950
>>     [f] 847-647-9360
>>     www.solarserviceinc.com <http://www.solarserviceinc.com/>
>>
>>     NABCEP Certified Solar PV and Thermal Installer=E2=84=A2
>>
>>     =E2=80=9CThere is no room for flashings. The L feet will go very clo=
se to
>>     the skylights and the flashing would hit the edge of them. Plus
>>     there is an existing array that was done by another installer
>>     that is done with L feet only. The new array would be higher.=E2=80=
=9D
>>
>>     --------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
>>
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