From michael.welch at homepower.com Fri Oct 15 12:57:21 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:57:21 -0700 Subject: Who else? [RE-Wrenches] Message-ID: <1700761680-1463792638-1081908972@boing.topica.com> The value of this list depends mightily on the number of EXPERIENCED installers that we get on board. Please send me your suggestions with email addresses on who we should invite to participate. Send to michael.welch at homepower.com rather than the entire list. And I apologize in advance because I don't really qualify as a "wrench" under the strict guidelines set up for participating ... but heck, somebody's got to get this going. Here's lists of the so-fars. Sorry that the software does not track names, only email addresses, so this might be a bit cryptic. The following are signed up on the list: michael.welch at homepower.com ben.root at homepower.com don.loweburg at homepower.com econnect at snowcrest.net joe.schwartz at homepower.com richard.perez at homepower.com aurora at toad.net ellison at gisco.net powersense at horizon.co.fk madownin at itt.com sunmountain at netstep.net jackwest at alaska.net microhydro at dplus.net ian.woofenden at homepower.com The following have been invited to sign up but have not yet responded: deandjh at halcyon.com frenergy at psln.com gosolar at bucky.win.bright.net solarvil at netpath.net karn at ka9q.ampr.org kootster at snowcrest.net wescowes at aol.com redwood at codecheck.com sharkey at mrsharkey.com engineering at continet.com jdailey at mtaonline.net sunwise at win.bright.net ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 From MADOWNIN at itt.com Fri Oct 15 13:38:37 1999 From: MADOWNIN at itt.com (Downing, Mark) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:38:37 -0500 Subject: Who else? [RE-Wrenches] Message-ID: <355520810-1463792638-1081909003@boing.topica.com> I have sent a couple of messages to this effect, so this may be redundant, but since the wrong address appears in your "signed up" list, I will reiterate. Please remove the address "madownin at itt.com" and replace it with "solarman1 at tk7.net". While either address will reach me, the "itt.com" is my day job and is not appropriate for this use. Please also invite: aaasolar at rt66.com Smitty/Chuck experts in solar DHW, pool heat and more swilley at nidlink.com Steve Willey at Backwoods Solar Thanks, Mark Downing Hurshtown Alternative Power > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Welch [mailto:michael.welch at homepower.com] > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 11:55 > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com > Subject: Who else? [RE-wrenches] > > > The value of this list depends mightily on the number of > EXPERIENCED installers that we get on board. Please send me > your suggestions with email addresses on who we should invite > to participate. Send to michael.welch at homepower.com rather > than the entire list. > > And I apologize in advance because I don't really qualify as > a "wrench" under the strict guidelines set up for > participating ... but heck, somebody's got to get this going. > > Here's lists of the so-fars. Sorry that the software does not > track names, only email addresses, so this might be a bit cryptic. > > The following are signed up on the list: > > michael.welch at homepower.com > ben.root at homepower.com > don.loweburg at homepower.com > econnect at snowcrest.net > joe.schwartz at homepower.com > richard.perez at homepower.com > aurora at toad.net > ellison at gisco.net > powersense at horizon.co.fk > madownin at itt.com > sunmountain at netstep.net > jackwest at alaska.net > microhydro at dplus.net > ian.woofenden at homepower.com > > The following have been invited to sign up but have not yet responded: > > deandjh at halcyon.com > frenergy at psln.com > gosolar at bucky.win.bright.net > solarvil at netpath.net > karn at ka9q.ampr.org > kootster at snowcrest.net > wescowes at aol.com > redwood at codecheck.com > sharkey at mrsharkey.com > engineering at continet.com > jdailey at mtaonline.net > sunwise at win.bright.net > > > ------------------------ > "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you > get a lot of scum on top." > > Edward Abbey > > Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com > Associate Editor, Home Power magazine > Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance > (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > > To unsubscribe > send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine > > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. > http://www.topica.com/t/4 From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Oct 25 16:48:36 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:48:36 -0700 Subject: neat trick [RE-Wrenches] Message-ID: <738820237-1463792126-1081909024@boing.topica.com> I helped out with a PV workshop installation this weekend. There was a utility line-worker at the workshop who showed us a neat trick. If you have some plastic conduit or carflex with cable or wire in it, you can still cut it VERY easily and with a lot more control than with blades by getting some thin nylon string, wrapping it part way around, and pulling it back and forth across the conduit or carflex. It works great and seemed just as fast as with a hack saw. The covering on the contained cables was not even nicked. ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 From econnect at snowcrest.net Mon Oct 25 19:49:33 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:49:33 -0700 Subject: neat trick [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.47336541-212058698-940895373@topica.com> >I helped out with a PV workshop installation this weekend. There was >a utility line-worker at the workshop who showed us a neat trick. > >If you have some plastic conduit or carflex with cable or wire in >it, you can still cut it VERY easily and with a lot more control >than with blades by getting some thin nylon string, wrapping it part >way around, and pulling it back and forth across the conduit or >carflex. > >It works great and seemed just as fast as with a hack saw. The >covering on the contained cables was not even nicked. > > >Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Michael etal, It is a neat trick, BUT you have to mind two things. First, the cord has to be strong yet pretty thin. I like standard "mason's string" Second, once you start, DON"T STOP! The dang plastic can melt around the string and it's a bitch to get it out! Best, Bob-O Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From jackwest at alaska.net Wed Nov 3 03:39:06 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 00:39:06 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.232984163-212058698-941618346@topica.com> Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod sine wave?? Jack West Talkeetna AE - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From econnect at snowcrest.net Wed Nov 3 11:08:47 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:08:47 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.771922424-212058698-941645327@topica.com> Hiya Jack, Haven't heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. It all depends on the type of power supply they are using. Some switching supply configurations will not lock on to the mod square wave at all. apparently your gets it some time. Some of the Apple Quadra and Performa series would do that as well. I'd get a sine wave. Probably the Exeltech XP250. Best, Bob-O >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 3 13:58:18 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:58:18 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1689607411-212058698-941655498@topica.com> Hello Jack I'm not surprised that you are having problems. In general, the later model Macs (since the Quadras) don't like mod sine power. Even if they do work, they don't last long. We have two iMacs but I haven't had the balls to plug them into mod sine power. I'd suggest a small sine wave inverter. Check out the Exeltechs. The XP1100 is an outstanding deal. They also make a 125 watt model. Richard Home Power >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 3 14:00:48 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:00:48 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1815152328-212058698-941655648@topica.com> I'll stick a Brand and a Fluke on the iMacs at the office and we'll see what they draw steady state and starting surge. I suspect not much. I think Bob-O's on to the problem. The switching power supply is having trouble syncing up with the mod sine waveform. Richard At 09:10 -0800 11/3/99, Michael Welch wrote: >Also, that little inverter might not be able to reliably handle the >surge of the monitor and other equipment all starting at once. > >At 08:08 AM 11/3/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >Hiya Jack, > >Haven't heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. It all depends >on the type of power supply they are using. Some switching supply >configurations will not lock on to the mod square wave at all. >apparently your gets it some time. Some of the Apple Quadra and >Performa series would do that as well. I'd get a sine wave. Probably >the Exeltech XP250. > >Best, Bob-O > > > >>Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt > >>mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot > >>at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a > >>sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod > >>sine wave?? > >> > >>Jack West > >>Talkeetna AE ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Wed Nov 3 16:27:52 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:27:52 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.249143006-212058698-941664472@topica.com> Jack and List; My first reaction was to pitch the damned Mack in the trash and get a PC, but that's not what you want to hear. I don't know what Richard means when he says that the Mack power supply won't "sync up" The very first component in any AC driven switching power supply is a full-wave rectifier. After that it's all DC until it goes into the MOSFET's to be chopped into high frequency square waves to be fed to the transformer for step-down. My hit on this is that the Mack isn't presenting a very attractive load to the mod wave inverter, so it's not broadening out the waveform, resulting in low RMS value and consequently a low DC voltage inside the switching supply. Try running another load (like a 25 or 50 watt incandescent lamp) while you try to boot it. Sine wave is the way to go, but my PC runs just fine on a Trace 812, so you should be able to run one of those little bitty think boxes from modified sine too. -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From sunwise at win.bright.net Wed Nov 3 20:49:02 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:49:02 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1302204044-212058698-941680142@topica.com> Hey and howdy, Try turning on a small incandescent light (20watt?) to load the inverter prior to booting the Mac. KGN At 12:39 AM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. >http://www.topica.com/t/4 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From sunwise at win.bright.net Wed Nov 3 20:50:15 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:50:15 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1379891242-212058698-941680215@topica.com> Hi again, Forgot to mention in my last message, you can shut the light off once you got the Mac's power button turned on. KGN At 12:39 AM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. >http://www.topica.com/t/4 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From jackwest at alaska.net Thu Nov 4 02:36:09 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 23:36:09 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1814697560-212058698-941700969@topica.com> Thanks for all the info. this is what I didn't tell you. This is a customers computer. I tried a starting load (compact flourescent!) and it didn't help. No incandescents on location. I'll have to try it though. Start up surge was measured at 168 watts, about 105 running. Once it does boot, everything seems fine. I'll keep you posted on future devolopements Jack West Talkeetna AE Kurt Nelson wrote: > Hi again, Forgot to mention in my last message, you can shut the light off > once you got the Mac's power button turned on. KGN > > At 12:39 AM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt > >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot > >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a > >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod > >sine wave?? > > > >Jack West > >Talkeetna AE > > > > > >- - - - - - - > >To send a message to the list use: > > > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: > > > >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > > >for info contact: > > > >_____________________________________________________________ > >Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. > >http://www.topica.com/t/4 > > > > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. > http://www.topica.com/t/4 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From jackwest at alaska.net Sun Nov 7 03:52:48 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:52:48 -0800 Subject: More i-Mac info [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1683495390-212058698-941964768@topica.com> The troublesome Mac is quite new, maybe just a few months old. Battery voltage was never below 12.5 while I was there. I'm going to try a UPG400 as soon as it arrives and if that doesn't work we'll go to the Exeltech250. Jack West - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ We've got email newsletters galore! Check 'em out at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/5 From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Nov 22 14:21:04 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:21:04 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.104888105-212058698-943298464@topica.com> Hello, gang. I have been getting subscription requests from folks that some of us would not consider "pro" wrenches. Yet I feel that they, you, and the industry as a whole may benefit from having these folks on the list. Can we work together to define more precisely who should be on this list. I would like to allow as many folks as possible to be on the list, but I do not want to compromise its value for the rest of you. If we let the definition range to wide, then it loses value for the hard core pros. If it is too narrow, then use can become stagnant and we might end up excluding some valuable folks. Two people came to mind while I was thinking about this. The first was someone who is mostly into HVAC but has on rare occasion built PV into his systems for uninterruptibility. The second is my partner Kelly, who has wrenched several systems, does not wrench for a living, yet does tech support for a big RE dealer. Home Power #74 will be out soon, and it mentions the Wrench mail list, so I expect to get a lot of requests to be added to the list soon. It would be great if I had a little more direction from you all to make sure the list is valuable, not too exclusive, and to make my job easier. We already have several folks from HP on the list that are not pros, myself included. How about this only as a starting point for the purpose of discussion: To be allowed to post to RE-Wrenches (keep in mind that ANYONE can read the posts archived at our list server www.topica.com), candidates must be included in one or more of the following categories: 1. Be a professional RE wrench focusing on the installing of home scale RE electric systems. 2. Be a professional RE installer whose focus is not RE electricity, but in the course of work must occasionally wrench on RE electric systems. (Can we get more specific about this one?) 3. Be an individual that has wrenched on a minimum of five RE electric systems. (This for non-pros that are WAY into it.) 4. Be a home scale RE electrical tech support person working for a dealer of RE products. (This for non-wrench pros that could benefit from our expertise, and who commonly help the public with problems in their systems.) 5. ????? (Anyone else we should consider?) Michael Welch ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From info at backwoodssolar.com Tue Nov 23 15:02:29 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:02:29 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.491098609-212058698-943387349@topica.com> Michael, I am new at reading this so don't count this to heavily. I thought you intended to start a group for any in the profession to discuss issues, technical problems, legal issues, equipment quality and suitability issues and help each other with stickier problems encountered in the field. In that case it perhaps would include those who are installing systems repetitively, and even such as I who am rarely wrenching anymore but am in contact to solve such customer problems 12 hours a day. But not individual customer help inquiries because there are places for that in home Power, and various dealer's like Charlie Collins and like my own email and website. To do that would get just swamped with mail every day, as I am now answering about 20 a day. I used to jump into those newsgroups for PV but have not had time for a year because my own email has turned busier than the newsgroups recently. Also perhaps not off topic, however you define that, like solar thermal or ?? Steve Willey info at backwoodssolar.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: ________________________________________________________________________ Start an Email List For Free at Topica. http://www.topica.com/register From econnect at snowcrest.net Wed Nov 24 11:21:59 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:21:59 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1439075579-212058698-943460519@topica.com> Michael, It's a tough one. Certainly folks like Kelly and Steve Wiley should be included. Doug from Real Goods would be OK with me as well, but not all the "sales technicians" from RG and elsewhere. Then too, I have problems with someone like Charlie Collins who will just ask us to solve his customers problems because he is either too lazy or incompetent to do it himself. Where and how do we draw the line? I want to share my knowledge and sweat-drenched experiences with fellow wrenches, but I don't want to get ripped off by the folks whom I feel are trashing the business either. I also agree with Steve that we should cull solar thermal, steam, etc. What to do? Bestest, Bob-O - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From i2p at aol.com Wed Nov 24 12:13:33 1999 From: i2p at aol.com (i2p at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:13:33 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1761325499-212058698-943463613@topica.com> Michael, I trust your judgement on whom to include. Going down the path of defining membership in too much detail can get convoluted and unnecessarily complicated. I'm pretty open to the concept of self definition. IF someone considers themselves a wrench-then they are. Best, Don - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From steveahicks at yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 12:30:36 1999 From: steveahicks at yahoo.com (Steve Hicks) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:30:36 -0800 Subject: Who Else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1923921821-212058698-943464636@topica.com> Wrenches: I'd like to see the list stay just the way it is. Do-it-yourselfers have Home Power to turn to and their existing dealers. I have been burned too many times over the years providing free consulting advice to the feeloaders. Now for a technical item. Recently I lost a Tri-Metric meter. Bogart Engineering is happy to cover it under warranty. It most likely failed when I was testing a 1/4 HP shunt wound DC motor. The inductive load off the field may have done the meter in. I'll do more testing when I get the meter back. Bogart Engineering said a sure cure would be to install their $15 lightening protector. Steve Hicks Mountain Pass Wind Company P.O. Box 394 White Sulphur Springs, Montana 59645 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 24 15:33:10 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:33:10 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.2009894029-212058698-943475590@topica.com> Hello Bob-O and the Wrench Group I agree with Bob-O on this one. This list needs to have both give and take. Everyone who participates should have something to contribute, and hopefully everyone will learn something on a regular basis. I think we need to have biz persons who aren't specifically Wrenches on this list. Tech support folks, distributors, and folks who work with the OEMs are all part of this industry and certainly will have valuable contributions. I suggest a "situation ethic". Let's decide this on a person by person basis rather than trying to make up a hard and fast rule about who is allowed to participate. I'd hate to see this list become an "old boys' club" where we sit around and discuss what we already know. Richard >Michael, >It's a tough one. Certainly folks like Kelly and Steve Wiley should >be included. Doug from Real Goods would be OK with me as well, but >not all the "sales technicians" from RG and elsewhere. Then too, I >have problems with someone like Charlie Collins who will just ask us >to solve his customers problems because he is either too lazy or >incompetent to do it himself. Where and how do we draw the line? >I want to share my knowledge and sweat-drenched experiences with >fellow wrenches, but I don't want to get ripped off by the folks >whom I feel are trashing the business either. >I also agree with Steve that we should cull solar thermal, steam, etc. >What to do? >Bestest, Bob-O ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Wed Nov 24 15:36:07 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:36:07 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.554615015-212058698-943475767@topica.com> All; Well, I don't know, I probably don't have the right to an opinion, because according to the "guidelines" I've read so far, I probably don't have a right to be on the Wrenches list either. I guess it bothers me a little that this is turning out to be an "us-and-them" issue. Sure, denying access to the list will help force out less scrupulous dealers and installers, but in the process, you may also be turning your back on someone who is less capable because they need education. The very bottom line is that their customers will suffer, and THAT is bad for solar power in general. My local Library doesn't make value judgements based on their client's financial situation, clothing, intent for use of the information, hair style, or any other intangible reason of that sort. As long as they abide by the rules of social exchange (shirt, shoes, service), they can look at any of the books, and even check them out if they can provide a permanent street address. Even the homeless can at least sit and read. The reference desk is open to all. I'd rather live in an open society, wouldn't you? The only reason I can see to limit access to posting to the list is to keep the volume of e-mails from getting too large to be manageable, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been a problem so far.... But... that's just my opinion. -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 24 19:54:11 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:54:11 -0800 Subject: SW4024 question [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.946585734-212058698-943491251@topica.com> Hello Wilson You are not alone. Others are having exactly the same problem with the SW series in sell mode. It seems that the software is not up to the job of balancing both utility-intertie and battery maintenance. Currently, as far as I know, there is no real fix for this. With the current software, you must manually choose between SELL and LBX modes. Joe Schwartz and Michael Welch of Home Power are working on an article about this. They are in contact with Trace (Christopher Freitas) and various Wrenches concerning this. I'm also sending this message to the RE Wrench mail group. Perhaps there is someone who has solved this problem. Wrenches, please respond to both the Wrench Group and to Wilson on this message. Richard Home Power >Hi there, > Please help... My system consists of a Trace SW4024 inverter, a PC250 >charge controller and 16 (each), L-16 batteries wired series/parallel for >24VDC. I am grid-tied (net-metered and selling) to the local utility and >enjoy watching my meter spin backwards. > I would like to configure my system to sell power to the utility >(inverted from my panels' production when the sun shines or my batteries, >otherwise). When my batteries need charging, I would like to use the sun to >recharge them. The manual doesn't do a great job explaining how this might >be done, nor is it clear that the inverter/software will allow this to happen. > I think I'm missing something obvious or that I'm not configuring my >inverter correctly. Is this something that is easy to provide (a software >tweak)? My phone call(s) to Trace don't seem to answer my question unless >I'm willing to manually switch between SELL and LBX modes on the inverter. >Please help... >Thanks, >Wilson Reynolds >"dosbobos at aol.com" ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From deandjh at halcyon.com Wed Nov 24 23:21:51 1999 From: deandjh at halcyon.com (deandjh at halcyon.com) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:21:51 -0800 Subject: Automatcic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.485644192-212058698-943503711@topica.com> I have a SW4024 with 1.3KW of PV and sell to the local electric cooperative. My problem was if I left the inverter in sell mode, when the sun went down the inverter would consume power while continuing to maintain the sell voltage overnight until the sun appeared the next morning. Being an imbedded software engineer I knew there was a better way. I purchased a Z-world imbedded controller with built-in serial ports and analog to digital converter. The a serial port on the controller is connected to a Trace Comm interface. The controller reads the voltage off a 60-amp shunt connected to the PV supply. Using a simple histeresas algorithm the controller commands the inverter to "sell" mode after the PV current has be 5 amps or above for three minutes. Conversely when the PV current drops below 5 amps for six minutes the controller commands the inverter back to the "SLT", silent mode. While not an inexpensive solution, it has been working great for the last six months. Darren Emmons - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From ellison at gisco.net Thu Nov 25 06:30:32 1999 From: ellison at gisco.net (Bob Ellison) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 03:30:32 -0800 Subject: Automatcic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.611044542-212058698-943529432@topica.com> Interesting solution, What does it cost to assemble one of the controllers and would you be willing to do some more of them? It sounds like something Trace should be looking at. Have a good Thanksgiving, Bob Ellison RE. Ellison Alternative Energy Systems & Supplies 34642 Countryman Road Theresa, New York. USA. 13691-2076 -----Original Message----- From: deandjh at halcyon.com [mailto:deandjh at halcyon.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 11:22 PM To: DosBobos at aol.com; RE Wrenches Subject: Automatcic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] I have a SW4024 with 1.3KW of PV and sell to the local electric cooperative. My problem was if I left the inverter in sell mode, when the sun went down the inverter would consume power while continuing to maintain the sell voltage overnight until the sun appeared the next morning. Being an imbedded software engineer I knew there was a better way. I purchased a Z-world imbedded controller with built-in serial ports and analog to digital converter. The a serial port on the controller is connected to a Trace Comm interface. The controller reads the voltage off a 60-amp shunt connected to the PV supply. Using a simple histeresas algorithm the controller commands the inverter to "sell" mode after the PV current has be 5 amps or above for three minutes. Conversely when the PV current drops below 5 amps for six minutes the controller commands the inverter back to the "SLT", silent mode. While not an inexpensive solution, it has been working great for the last six months. Darren Emmons - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From powersense at horizon.co.fk Thu Nov 25 09:11:54 1999 From: powersense at horizon.co.fk (Clive Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 06:11:54 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches]/lightning protection Message-ID: <0.1300002502.848551476-212058698-943539114@topica.com> Hi guys! Being the only active wrench in the Falkland Islands, a lonesome situation, I was pleased to be asked to join this list. Great having something to tap into if needed, and hopefully contribute to - living way offroad, I am used to quick fixes. Bob-O (Hi!) has been/is a tower of strength but of course he's a busy busy man. My wife Rosemary is on a heap of craft lists, spinning etc. She says these usually have a ListMom (guess that makes you the ListDad Michael!) who rides herd. If folks get way off topic or unpleasant/argumentative the ListMom wields her cyberwhip and turns them back on track. If they keep being a pain in the rear end, they get bounced, being allowed to read but not post. My thoughts for what they're worth is that this list is so new, it's still in a suck-it-and-see stage. Why not be a bit more flexible, allow anyone installing/maintaining/troubleshooting RE 'normal' systems ie wind, sun, hydro to join. Not open it way up to people who are simply interested in RE. But keep a beady eye on things and issue a set of rules to everyone (also normal on most other lists). Point out in these rules that there is an archive for consultation before posting a question, to avoid endless questions about the same things - and if it's something basic they should first go ask the guy who sold them the equipment. Tell them this isn't a chat list, it's hands-on stuff. If the list is opened to all and sundry, without rules, there'll be a flood of mail and no-one will have time to read it all, never mind respond. And now to tap into the collective wisdom - Lightning. I install domestic size systems which include Trace SW inverters. How can I best protect the input and output of these from transient over voltage? I asked Trace, who said get in touch with the experts, Harger being one. Faxed Harger with typical system details and zilch since. We get a fair bit of lightning damage down here and Trace say this is a common problem. Am not interested in SOCs because you can't tell if they have taken a hit until they burst. You also need fast fuse protection with them. Any thoughts? Thanks! cheers for now Clive PowerSense Falkland Islands powersense at horizon.co.fk http://www.falklandwool.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Thu Nov 25 10:56:02 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:56:02 -0800 Subject: Automatic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1043108333-212058698-943545362@topica.com> For those of you who are not software engineers, there is a simple solution to this problem, which uses off-the-shelf hardware to accomplish the task. 1) Install a heavy duty contactor in the AC input of the trace. The coil should be operated by 12 (or 24) volts DC. It is only necessary to switch the "hot" leg of the AC. Just be sure that the contactor can handle the full current that the Trace is programmed to draw/backfeed. 2) Connect the coil of this relay through one of the programmable on-board auxillary relays, so that the normally open relay contacts supply voltage to the contactor (again 12 volts, dc) when the relay is energized. 3) Program the relay to be activated at the bulk charge voltage, and set the hysteresis so that the relay pull-out voltage is several tenths of a volt *below* your float voltage. 4) Program the grid usage timer for the time you want the Trace to shut down and go into search mode. This is "set end charge time" on menu #18. 5) Program the grid usage time to begin charging about a half-hour after the "set end charge time", or whenever you think there will be insufficient sun to bring the batteries up to bulk voltage at the end of the day. This is "set charge start time" on menu #18. This is important, as it "resets" the system and readies it for another cycle. This time can be anytime *before* your PV's start to supply current, but I always set it for right after I know I'm done charging for the day. 6) Program "set battery sell volts" in menu 17 to sell the battery voltage to several tenths of a volt *below* your relay hysteresis voltage. Also program "set sell amps" to something like 5 amps, enough to cause the battery terminal voltage to droop a bit below the "set battery sell volts" voltage. 7) Provide a small toggle switch to defeat the relay and energize the contactor for manual charging. Alternately, use the menus to lower the relay voltage programming until the relay pulls in, energizing the contactor. Here's how it works: Over night you consume ampere-hours from your battery bank. Next morning, the sun comes up and replenishes the batteries. When the batteries get full, the terminal voltage rises to the bulk charge level, and the relay supplies voltage to the contactor, which in turn, supplies AC power to the AC1 input of the Trace. The Trace syncs up to the grid and enters intertie mode, selling the excess PV power to the utility. After bulk charging, which is regulated by the Trace feeding power to the grid, float charging commences. The relay stays pulled in and AC continues to be connected to the Trace. Late in the day, where there is no further useful current from the PV's, the Trace tries to sell the batteries at the programmed time down to the programmed voltage. As there is insufficient PV current, the battery terminal voltage sags just a bit, the auxillary relay de-energizes, the contactor drops out, and the inverter goes into "search"mode, waiting for a load or for the terminal voltage to again rise to bulk levels. It may be necessary to adjust the relay hysteresis to prevent the relay from dropping out if you use high-current loads on the inverter while it is connected to the grid, as the batteries will try to take up the slack from the AC line during motor starting, etc. Here are my current settings: Menu Item # 10, Battery Charging "Set Bulk Volts DC" -14.6 "Set Float Volts DC" - 13.4 Menu Item #14, Auxillary Relays "Set Relay 9 Volts DC" - 14.6 "R 9 Hysteresis volts DC" - 1.5 (13.1 volts) Menu item #17, Battery Selling: "Set Battery Sell Volts" - 13.0 "Set Battery Sell Amps" - 5 Menu item 18, Grid Usage Timer "Set Charge Start Time" - 17:30 "Set End Charge Time" - 17:00 These values are for a 12 volt system, using a Trace SW2512. Obviously, you would need to adjust your programmed voltages to correspond to a 24 volt system, and use a 24 volt contactor. Disadvantages: Won't work with wind or other unpredictable sources of power input. Does not put the inverter in "silent mode" (This is an advantage to me!) Requires periodic adjustment of start and end charge times, seasonally. Does not shut down inverter during inclement weather after a sunny period. It's "stupid" and works only as a timer, not a PV current sensor. This solution has been working great for me for several years, and is quite inexpensive. Parts, including a proper enclosure for the contactor shouldn't cost more than $30.00. Now if I could just get Darren to start working on the serial interface program for Windows for the SW series.... -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From microhydro at dplus.net Thu Nov 25 11:26:08 1999 From: microhydro at dplus.net (Ron Macleod) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:26:08 -0800 Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1598664373-212058698-943547168@topica.com> Hello All- I like Clive's approach to the Wrench list - Richard had good ideas too - I'm a little concerned about the potential e-mail volume; so lets limit things to bone fide Wrenches and dealers (Good) - Maybe if the list Nanny (Michael) can devote the time - he could filter questions from regular folks and then pose them to the group where appropriate. A big job I admit - maybe HP could do that - a new Q&A column? "Ask The Wrenches" Yo we have to avoid a mutual admiration society here. Anyway - Last month I suggested to Michael - that we all introduce ourselves and our specialties - You guys may know each other - I'm not sure -but I don't know most of you and I'd like to. Michael suggested the intro was a good idea but I should wait 'til things got started - well they're started. I think as new members come on board they should do the same. So here goes - pick a format - who cares Name: Cameron MacLeod 111 Company: C. MacLeod & Co. Company Desc. Manufacturer of Micro Low Head Turbine Gen. Sets - Consulting Position: Owner - etc. - etc. - etc. Experience: 22 Years - hands on in Small and Micro Hydro Location : 2131 Harmonyville Rd., Pottstown, Pa 19465 , USA E-Mail microhydro at dplus.net Age: OLD Life Goal : Make a more consistent living from RE and create more than I destroy. Comments: I've been around a while - working mostly in the Northeast with a few trips overseas. I have a strong background in ultra low head reaction turbine work ( see HP#23)- some experience with Pelton and Turgo wheels and waterwheels. Electrical wrenching has been mostly conventional Ac and a lot of High Voltage (110-220 volt) DC. Pretty good at electro-mechanical stuff and control design. I'm pretty electronically illiterate, but I'm working at it . Battery experience is Lead acid - wet cell NiCad and Nickel Iron. Inverter experience - some but I need More. My current obsession is to manufacture an ultra low head reaction battery charger that folks can afford. I'm almost there! So Guys - I don't know about you yet - I'd like to - Please go for it - no more anonymity! Best - Ron - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Thu Nov 25 11:36:11 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:36:11 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches]/lightning protection Message-ID: <0.1300002502.708925315-212058698-943547771@topica.com> Hi Clive; I agree with you, too many rules and restrictions spoil the soup. As for your lightning problems. Be sure to ground the hell out of your equipment. You are probably already doing this, but I'm talking about several ground stakes in a circle, connected together with wide copper strap. This is called a ring ground, and it is usually installed outside the perimeter of the building the equipment is installed in. Copper straps radiate inward from all corners to the equipment racks. Ground your towers, PV arrays, and anything else that's metal. Copper strap ground radials buried about 6" deep and 10 meters long leading away from your ring ground system makes it even better. Now that you have produced the best ground in the neighborhood to attract all the lightning, let's concentrate on keeping it out of your equipment. Spark gaps are the first line of defense. Commercially made spark gaps are available, but I doubt that they are any more sophisticated than home made units which use automotive sparking plugs. The center conductor of the plug gets connected to your wiring and the shell is securely grounded. They must be mounted in a proper enclosure to prevent shorts, shocks, and bugs from building nests on them! Use brand-new ones, as used plugs will be worn and have oily deposits. Place spark gaps at each end of any run of wire that enters/exits the equipment building. More gaps = more protection. A very cheap and effective way of discouraging lightning is to place a 1 meter diameter loop in every wire that enters the equipment building. This loop should be in free air, and the ends of the loop should not touch each other physically. Lightning has a very fast rise time and behaves much like radio frequency energy. The inductance of the loop will help the lightning look for another path to ground. Ferrite cores can be very helpful for the same reason. Place ferrite torroids on all wiring entering or leaving the equipment building. Best of all (but not cheap) is to prevent lightning from striking you at all. Commercially made static dissipator arrays can protect your PV's and wind equipment from even being hit in the first place. These consist of a "crown of thorns" or straight rows of sharp metal spikes, much like large stainless steel thistle heads. Their job is to dissipate static buildup before a corona is formed and thus prevent the ionization of the surrounding air, resulting in a strike. One maker of this product is "Stati-Cat" by Cortana Corp. As a Broadcast Engineer, I have used all of these methods, and so far have been very lucky to have lost only a small bit of equipment to severe lightning striking our 415 foot tall tower. At our FM site, lightning has melted solder after hitting the radiating elements of our antenna, and fused de-icer wiring inside the conduits, but never so much as a damaged diode inside the building. Good luck, stay in touch. -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From powersense at horizon.co.fk Thu Nov 25 12:55:31 1999 From: powersense at horizon.co.fk (Clive Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:55:31 -0800 Subject: lightning protection/who's who [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1611033555-212058698-943552531@topica.com> Thanks for the advice, Sharkey. Much appreciated. Agree with Ron, good to have intros so we know who's talking. Name: Clive Wilkinson Company name: PowerSense. email etc - see sig lines Company profile: There's a heap of stuff on our website but takes a month to plough through it all. Lot of stuff about farm, crafts, islands etc. Basically - I'm a sheepfarmer (no jokes please, believe me I've heard 'em all). Turned to RE 10 years ago for own use, was asked by other farmers to advise them and eventually built up a business supplying and installing systems, most of them incorporating wind turbines. (PV is used for fencing vast areas of grazing land, up to 150 miles from one energiser, no serious use otherwise, not enough sun.) Systems often synchroneous with diesel gensets. (Try the PowerSense page for a quickish intro or check out HP #55 to see a typical system). I get my Trace inverters etc through Electron Connection, have visited the Trace plant, and done some hands-on stuff alongside Bob-O. This business has taken over from wool as our main income. Life here isn't easy due to remoteness. This is also the ultimate test site for wind turbines, strong gusty often 'dirty' winds. I use Proven turbines - work pretty closely with Proven Engineering (Scotland) on development. and think they have learned a lot from experiences here. Lead acid batteries are made to order for us by Chloride Motive Power (England). Age? fifty mumble mumble Life goal? to see everyone here enjoying 24 hour power (there's no national grid). Getting there slowly... cheers Clive Clive Wilkinson PowerSense Falkland Islands powersense at horizon.co.fk http://www.falklandwool.com tel +500 42202 fax +500 42203 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Thu Nov 25 15:44:32 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:44:32 -0800 Subject: Me's who, that's who! [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.281556144-212058698-943562672@topica.com> Who's who? Well, here is a rather long-winded episode that I wrote to introduce myself to the readers of a New Zealand magazine for which I write a monthly article regarding renewable enrgy as it pertains to mobile (RV) installations. For more information stop by my web site at The fascination of the workings of electricity haven't worn off after forty years, since that day when my Grandfather gave me a couple of telephone dry-cells and a low voltage tail lamp bulb to play with. I burnt my finger that day, shorting out the cells with a piece of wire, but the power lurking in the tall, cylindrical battery was enough to captivate my interest in spite of that small setback. My home for the last 24 years has been a Housetruck built in the body of a converted 1962 Chevrolet C-40 moving van. Shortly after setting up habitation in the truck, I moved to a remote 40 acre property that was ½ mile beyond the electrical grid. As candles and kerosene lamps were not sufficient for close work or reading, I invested in a pair of deep-cycle traction batteries to provide electric illumination and to power a small radio receiver. In order to charge the batteries, I installed a 100 watt Winco windcharger, which I rebuilt from scrap. Due to the nearby trees, and the shortness of the wind plant's tower, I mostly ended up hauling the 130 pound bulk of the batteries using a barrow to the nearest electrical outlet, sometimes in axle-deep mud! In those days, photovoltaic modules were quite expensive and hard to find. In 1982, I worked in Portland, OR, for a company which installed and serviced high-powered Jacobs wind machines. These 10Kw grid-inertied wind plants were mostly located in the Columbia River Gorge, which has some of the most constant high-velocity wind to be found in the Pacific-Northwest. Nearly every week, we went to repair a machine that had blown apart in a high wind, replacing the sitka spruce blades, each 12 feet long. I kept warn that winter by burning the old blades in the wood stove. I figured my fire wood that winter was worth about $30,000! It didn't burn very well, and barely put out any heat at all! I also became involved in the erection and testing of an experimental high efficiency down-wind plant that was underwritten by a grant from the U.S. Dept of Energy. My first electric vehicle was purchased in 1984, a used General Electric Electrak electric garden and lawn tractor. This 36 volt battery-powered tractor has a 15 horsepower motor, and is equipped with a three-blade, front mounted mower and a 48 inch wide rear mounted tiller. It made the task of mowing almost pleasurable, and is very handy for hauling, yarding, grading and a variety of other tasks. A well known renewable energy supply company organized a national "Off the Grid Day" in 1991, a day during which citizens concerned about this country's energy policies would consume no electricity as a political statement. At the end of the day, I decided that this was too easy and vowed to go a whole week with my main circuit breakers turned off. A week stretched into a month, during which time I constructed a flat-plate solar collector for heating bath water. Due to my access to a large set of storage batteries, and with the help of a very small photovoltaic panel and my antique wind machine, I was able to live comfortably for the entire period. When the electric company read my watt-hour meter, they sent out a technician to check it to see why it had malfunctioned and read no consumption since the last reading! Since that time, I have made a commitment to consume all energy more wisely, and invest whenever possible in renewable energy equipment that will allow me to produce at least a portion of my own electric power. Most recently, I purchased an electric-powered automobile, and installed a sizable photovoltaic module array to charge it from. On a more mundane note, my occupation is that of a Broadcast Engineer, responsible for the construction, maintenance and repair of radio broadcast facilities. I am a volunteer at the Oregon Country Fair, where I serve as a radio dispatch operator, telephone installer, and supply a sizable renewable energy system to power the staff kitchen and quartermaster offices. There is nothing I like better than lying asleep on a warm summer night in my solar-heated hot tub. - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From aurora at toad.net Sun Nov 28 09:54:19 1999 From: aurora at toad.net (Aurora Energy) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:54:19 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.677556472-212058698-943800859@topica.com> Hello Comrades, Some thoughts on the issue at hand of "who'll make the list" and a personal introduction. I guess I'd like to call myself a wrench, I've designed and installed 30+ home PV systems in MD/PA/VA/NY and have dabbled in wind. I make my living doing this now though for eight years I was an electrician mainly working in historic home renovation. I know I don't have as much experience or intimate knowledge of the idiosyncrasies of RE components as some of you guys, though I hope to contribute whatever I've learned in RE or in the trade. I am excited about this forum as I am confident it will help me produce better systems for my clients. The main concern I see in others responses to the list question, are the same as my own, namely will we come home from a long day in the field and find a huge list of emails from the list with no time to even read them let alone respond to them. This does bother me because I have that problem with all the lists I've tried to be a part of in the past. I'm afraid that if the volume gets too large, the most experienced (busy) people will drop out just from an annoyance factor. However, I firmly believe that no one can waste my time unless I give it to them and so, if we feel that there is a unnecessary question posted, we can simply delete it and not respond. I agree with others that we should not create a club (especially not a boy's only club) nor should we place full responsibility on Michael for the hard decisions of who'll make the cut. I guess I'm saying it's up to all of us to not encourage excessive listings, and to bring up any concerns that we have right away before it gets out of hand. Here are just a couple of specifics I'll suggest. 1. We all make ample use of the subject line to help readers identify whether or not the question fits their interest/ expertise. 2. We can send comments to Michael directly if we feel a particular person is being unhelpful to the group. 3. We take advantage of the personal intro to get to know each other and our levels of experience. 4. New members are alerted that this is a cantankerous bunch who do not take kindly to having their time wasted. 5. Michael works extra hours to make everyone happy. Final concern, can we assume that the list is not accessible to merchants to pedal there wares? Thanks for your time and I look forward to the interactions! -- Jason Fisher Aurora Energy 86 Conduit St. Annapolis, MD 21401 USA Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 email: aurora at toad.net - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From i2p at aol.com Mon Nov 29 16:36:23 1999 From: i2p at aol.com (i2p at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:36:23 -0800 Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1720667464-212058698-943911383@topica.com> Thanks Ron for getting the ball rolling. Don and Cynthia Loweburg Offline Independent Energy The majority of our work is residential PV -some on grid most offgrid. Our system here at Offline is hybrid (small harris hydro and 1500 w pv with propane gen backup), solar thermal water,and modest use of solar archetecture. We work the central Ca region - mostly foothill area. Been at this for 17 years and learning every day. I have a academic background and am an electrical contractor but the good stuff comes from hands on and I thank my custormers for the opportunity to play. Cynthia is very knowledgeable does lot of initial contact (screening) does all the money and handles the front office while I'm design and installation. We both see offgrid as the living laboratory for this technology and are very confident that it will diffuse into the grid world. Don Loweburg - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From aurora at toad.net Wed Dec 1 17:34:10 1999 From: aurora at toad.net (Aurora Energy) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:34:10 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.558033738-212058698-944087650@topica.com> Hello Comrades, Just a quick question, anyone got any tips for mounting a PV rack (simple, four foot type) to a slate roof? This is a new one for me, and I'm not too excited about it! -- Jason Fisher Aurora Energy 86 Conduit St. Annapolis, MD 21401 USA Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 email: aurora at toad.net - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Fri Dec 3 01:07:09 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:07:09 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.401731018-212058698-944201229@topica.com> If the slate cannot be used as a practical mounting surface, it is often possible to secure a top-of-pole mount to the edge of the roofing framework, and support the pole clear down to the ground at the bottom. I have seen some fairly large mounts like this beside the end of a building's roof, bracketed to the roof as it passes the edge, and extending 4 to 6 feet above the roof. Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: ________________________________________________________________________ Start an Email List For Free at Topica. http://www.topica.com/register From sunwise at win.bright.net Fri Dec 3 11:01:19 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:01:19 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1930357072-212058698-944236879@topica.com> Hey Jason, Do you really need to go roof mounted? Roof mounts can be problematic in general and by code require the addition of a GFI device. If you need the hight, a top of pole mount or tracker can gain additional support by attaching to the eve at the peak of the roof and is cemented in the ground at the base alongside the house. Also, south wall mounted PV's work well, and although there can be some sun lost during the summer months, most systems need all the gain they can get during the winter months, and the wall mounted panels preform fine at that time. My home has seasonally adjusted wall mounted pv's and I'm pretty happy with the set-up. The house is two story and the PV's are above the first story windows and provide shading to those windows from the high summer sun. During the winter, when the panels are lowered, the sun enters the passive solar windows making the arrangement nearly perfect. If you don't need the hight (good solar window), a pole mount within reasonable distance from the house is a good choice and limits your liabilailty cause you aren't drilling so many holes in the house and roof. Good luck -- Kurt Nelson, SOLutions At 02:34 PM 12/1/99 -0800, you wrote: >Hello Comrades, > >Just a quick question, anyone got any tips for mounting a PV rack >(simple, four foot type) to a slate roof? This is a new one for me, and >I'm not too excited about it! > >-- >Jason Fisher > >Aurora Energy >86 Conduit St. >Annapolis, MD 21401 >USA > >Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 >email: aurora at toad.net > > > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. >You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. >http://www.topica.com/t/9 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From michael.welch at homepower.com Fri Dec 3 14:02:42 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 11:02:42 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.2083097400-212058698-944247762@topica.com> At 10:07 PM 12/2/1999 -0800, you wrote: >If the slate cannot be used as a practical mounting surface, it is often >possible to secure a top-of-pole mount to the edge of the roofing framework, >and support the pole clear down to the ground at the bottom. I have seen >some fairly large mounts like this beside the end of a building's roof, >bracketed to the roof as it passes the edge, and extending 4 to 6 feet above >the roof. I ran just such a mount installation by the folks at Two Seas last spring. They said, "Don't do it" as the wind loads could easily tear away the facia boards. If you use this method, the pole mount should be free standing, that is, able to survive without being attached to the house. That means some serious engineering which may include guy wires just like a wind tower. If you use the facia, it will also have to be structural and engineered for the wind loads. That said, I had heard of a company that designed slate roof attachments. Quite awhile ago they submitted an article to Home Power, but neither Richard or I can recall the particulars. Michael Welch ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Sat Dec 4 16:12:06 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 13:12:06 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.326258739-212058698-944341926@topica.com> I was not suggesting connection to trim boards. I had assumed that a qualified solar installer would make good attachment to the frame of the house, perhaps I should have taken time to specify that much. There are some very huge arrays installed this way at Bill Gross Solar own home in Montana that I know of, larger than I would recommend, but they stay because of solid welded brackets and through bolt mount to the framing of the house. Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Welch To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 11:02 AM Subject: Re: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] > At 10:07 PM 12/2/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >If the slate cannot be used as a practical mounting surface, it is often > >possible to secure a top-of-pole mount to the edge of the roofing framework, > >and support the pole clear down to the ground at the bottom. I have seen > >some fairly large mounts like this beside the end of a building's roof, > >bracketed to the roof as it passes the edge, and extending 4 to 6 feet above > >the roof. > > I ran just such a mount installation by the folks at Two Seas last spring. They said, "Don't do it" as the wind loads could easily tear away the facia boards. If you use this method, the pole mount should be free standing, that is, able to survive without being attached to the house. That means some serious engineering which may include guy wires just like a wind tower. > > If you use the facia, it will also have to be structural and engineered for the wind loads. > > That said, I had heard of a company that designed slate roof attachments. Quite awhile ago they submitted an article to Home Power, but neither Richard or I can recall the particulars. > > Michael Welch > > ------------------------ > "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." > > Edward Abbey > > Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com > Associate Editor, Home Power magazine > Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance > (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 > > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. > You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. > http://www.topica.com/t/9 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Mon Dec 6 00:16:54 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:16:54 -0800 Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.845206898-212058698-944457414@topica.com> Per Ron Macleod's request, here is a summery of Who is for us: Backwoods solar was started back in 1978 or before as a hobby installing wind power, since we (Steve and Elizabeth Willey) were off grid and finding solutions as we went along. Soon solar became the main product, still for remote homes in the north woods. As our customer list grew we tried doing a newsletter which turned into a catalog business, and just grew 15 to 20% a year. I then had to quit the GTE town job, then Elizabeth quit her job, no regrets ever. Then we hired a helper, then another, finally Y2K business brought us to 5 total people. We rarely install anymore, referring that to local electricians, simply because we work 9 to 12 hours a day just doing the "make a million in mail order from home" trip. We do make some custom products and spend one full time person on answering mail and email and giving personal service. we try to follow-up and solve all problems, hence while no longer throwing many wrenches, we deal with the technology and field problems on a full time basis. Backwoods Solar wants to re-focus and slow down a little, to service the independent-stand-alone-owner built-off grid situation as our primary focus. Statistics: about 20,000 mailing list, one catalog and 2 or 3 newsletters mailed per year, website www.backwoodssolar.com, phone 263-4290, toll free fax 888-263-4290 (don't let the telemarketers get that one). Glad to see this functioning group. Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems A catalog business on a mountain 2 miles from utility lines, powered entirely by our catalog products. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Macleod To: Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 8:26 AM Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] > Hello All- > I like Clive's approach to the Wrench list - Richard had good ideas > too - I'm a little concerned about the potential e-mail volume; so lets > limit things to bone fide Wrenches and dealers (Good) - Maybe if the > list Nanny (Michael) can devote the time - he could filter questions > from regular folks and then pose them to the group where appropriate. A > big job I admit - maybe HP could do that - a new Q&A column? "Ask The > Wrenches" > > Yo we have to avoid a mutual admiration society here. > > Anyway - Last month I suggested to Michael - that we all introduce > ourselves and our specialties - You guys may know each other - I'm not > sure -but I don't know most of you and I'd like to. Michael suggested > the intro was a good idea but I should wait 'til things got started - > well they're started. I think as new members come on board they should > do the same. > > So here goes - pick a format - who cares > > Name: Cameron MacLeod 111 > Company: C. MacLeod & Co. > Company Desc. Manufacturer of Micro Low Head Turbine Gen. Sets - > Consulting > Position: Owner - etc. - etc. - etc. > Experience: 22 Years - hands on in Small and Micro Hydro > Location : 2131 Harmonyville Rd., Pottstown, Pa 19465 , USA > E-Mail microhydro at dplus.net > Age: OLD > Life Goal : Make a more consistent living from RE and create more than I > destroy. > > Comments: I've been around a while - working mostly in the Northeast > with a few trips overseas. I have a strong background in ultra low head > reaction turbine work ( see HP#23)- some experience with Pelton and > Turgo wheels and waterwheels. Electrical wrenching has been mostly > conventional Ac and a lot of High Voltage (110-220 volt) DC. Pretty good > at electro-mechanical stuff and control design. I'm pretty > electronically illiterate, but I'm working at it . Battery experience is > Lead acid - wet cell NiCad and Nickel Iron. Inverter experience - some > but I need More. My current obsession is to manufacture an ultra low > head reaction battery charger that folks can afford. I'm almost there! > > So Guys - I don't know about you yet - I'd like to - Please go for it - > no more anonymity! > > Best - Ron > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" > newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Mon Dec 20 10:43:28 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:43:28 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1493851982-212058698-945704608@topica.com> I wonder what folks are thinking about the PV ground fault interrupters. Trace seems to have one code accepted for power room installation, yet we have had no requests for this even for systems installed in tightly enforced areas. Mostly perhaps because people are favoring ground mounts over roof, nevertheless we have had NO requests at all from electricians. Question is, what is the future of this or like devices and what shall we do with stocking and cataloging it in this coming year? Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems A catalog business on a mountain 2 miles from utility lines, powered entirely by our catalog products. IF UTILITY POWER IS 1/2 MILE OR MORE FROM YOUR SITE, get our free 160 page solar-electric Planning Guide/Catalog. (Your postal address required - Our list is never given or sold). Phone(208)263-4290 Fax (208) 265-4788 in Idaho, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: Kurt Nelson To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 8:01 AM Subject: Re: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] > Hey Jason, > > Do you really need to go roof mounted? Roof mounts can be problematic in > general and by code require the addition of a GFI device. If you need the > hight, a top of pole mount or tracker can gain additional support by > attaching to the eve at the peak of the roof and is cemented in the ground > at the base alongside the house. Also, south wall mounted PV's work well, > and although there can be some sun lost during the summer months, most > systems need all the gain they can get during the winter months, and the > wall mounted panels preform fine at that time. My home has seasonally > adjusted wall mounted pv's and I'm pretty happy with the set-up. The house > is two story and the PV's are above the first story windows and provide > shading to those windows from the high summer sun. During the winter, when > the panels are lowered, the sun enters the passive solar windows making the > arrangement nearly perfect. If you don't need the hight (good solar > window), a pole mount within reasonable distance from the house is a good > choice and limits your liabilailty cause you aren't drilling so many holes > in the house and roof. Good luck -- Kurt Nelson, SOLutions > > At 02:34 PM 12/1/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Hello Comrades, > > > >Just a quick question, anyone got any tips for mounting a PV rack > >(simple, four foot type) to a slate roof? This is a new one for me, and > >I'm not too excited about it! > > > >-- > >Jason Fisher > > > >Aurora Energy > >86 Conduit St. > >Annapolis, MD 21401 > >USA > > > >Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 > >email: aurora at toad.net > > > > > > > > > >- - - - - - - > >To send a message to the list use: > > > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: > > > >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > > >for info contact: > > > >_____________________________________________________________ > >Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. > >You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. > >http://www.topica.com/t/9 > > > > > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. > You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. > http://www.topica.com/t/9 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: ________________________________________________________________________ Start an Email List For Free at Topica. http://www.topica.com/register From econnect at snowcrest.net Mon Dec 20 11:20:49 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:20:49 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.779378125-212058698-945706849@topica.com> Dear Steve ETAL, My basic feeling about the PV GFP is that it is a product developed to fill a Code requirement for which there is no need. A solution in search of a problem. Perhaps you could make a case for it in a high voltage array, but 12, 24, 48V? Naw. I've installed a couple to please inspectors, but the way you have to route the grounding is devious and I have NO idea whether the bugger even works. Trace doesn't even have a can to put it in unless you get it as part of a Power Module, but AEE does. Best, Bob-O >I wonder what folks are thinking about the PV ground fault interrupters. >Trace seems to have one code accepted for power room installation, yet we >have had no requests for this even for systems installed in tightly enforced >areas. Mostly perhaps because people are favoring ground mounts over roof, >nevertheless we have had NO requests at all from electricians. Question is, >what is the future of this or like devices and what shall we do with >stocking and cataloging it in this coming year? > >Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com >Backwoods Solar Electric Systems Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ You share a similar passion. You align with common interests. You connect over a favorite topic. You belong at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/10 From jackwest at alaska.net Tue Dec 21 02:39:09 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:39:09 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.157788044-212058698-945761949@topica.com> Steve, I have not installed any roof mounted PV's and stick stricktly to poles because of snow accumulation. I don't see a GFI for roof mounted PV's in my future. I highly recommend pole mounts for anyone in snow country. Like Bob-O says, a solution looking for a problem... Jack West Bob-O Schultze wrote: > Dear Steve ETAL, > My basic feeling about the PV GFP is that it is a product developed > to fill a Code requirement for which there is no need. A solution in > search of a problem. Perhaps you could make a case for it in a high > voltage array, but 12, 24, 48V? Naw. > I've installed a couple to please inspectors, but the way you have to > route the grounding is devious and I have NO idea whether the bugger > even works. Trace doesn't even have a can to put it in unless you get > it as part of a Power Module, but AEE does. > Best, Bob-O > > >I wonder what folks are thinking about the PV ground fault interrupters. > >Trace seems to have one code accepted for power room installation, yet we > >have had no requests for this even for systems installed in tightly enforced > >areas. Mostly perhaps because people are favoring ground mounts over roof, > >nevertheless we have had NO requests at all from electricians. Question is, > >what is the future of this or like devices and what shall we do with > >stocking and cataloging it in this coming year? > > > >Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com > >Backwoods Solar Electric Systems > > Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection > PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 > 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > You share a similar passion. You align with common interests. > You connect over a favorite topic. You belong at Topica. > http://www.topica.com/t/10 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From cvsolar at aol.com Tue Dec 21 06:19:54 1999 From: cvsolar at aol.com (cvsolar at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:19:54 -0800 Subject: Roof Mount/ GFI etc. [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.324888860-212058698-945775194@topica.com> Hi all, I think the roof mount/GFI issue has been covered but I'll put in my two cents. I agree roof mounts should be a last resort location and I was glad to hear others question the need for GFI's. I have been lucky with only asphalt and metal roofs to deal with so far and they are no fun. I had one job where we had to put the panels on the roof as it was the only place where they couldn't be seen from the road. The town had strict controls on everything people did to their properties. They can' t even run a conduit on the outside of the house! jJohn Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar and Wind cvsolar at aol.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From info at backwoodssolar.com Tue Dec 21 10:20:44 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:20:44 -0800 Subject: Roof Mount/ GFI etc. [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.73374981-212058698-945789644@topica.com> In the northwest we do have a problem that the rooftop in many cases is the only place where the sun shines in winter. This time of year sun is about 18 degrees off the horizon at noon, so any sort of forest will shadow a ground mount in December. But then it may be overcast all December anyway. In any case a lot of them do go on roofs for that reason, and even there few GFI's are ever requested for inspected jobs. I just wonder if this is something that we can ignore from our catalog listings one more year, and the replies are beginning to encourage ignoring it. Its always available by request I guess... Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems A catalog business on a mountain 2 miles from utility lines, powered entirely by our catalog products. IF UTILITY POWER IS 1/2 MILE OR MORE FROM YOUR SITE, get our free 160 page solar-electric Planning Guide/Catalog. (Your postal address required - Our list is never given or sold). Phone(208)263-4290 Fax (208) 265-4788 in Idaho, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 3:19 AM Subject: Roof Mount/ GFI etc. [RE-wrenches] > Hi all, > I think the roof mount/GFI issue has been covered but I'll put in my two > cents. I agree roof mounts should be a last resort location and I was glad > to hear others question the need for GFI's. I have been lucky with only > asphalt and metal roofs to deal with so far and they are no fun. I had one > job where we had to put the panels on the roof as it was the only place where > they couldn't be seen from the road. The town had strict controls on > everything people did to their properties. They can' t even run a conduit on > the outside of the house! > > jJohn Blittersdorf > Central Vermont Solar and Wind > cvsolar at aol.com > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get your favorite topic delivered daily. > http://www.topica.com/t/11 > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From cvsolar at aol.com Sun Dec 26 22:16:18 1999 From: cvsolar at aol.com (cvsolar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:16:18 -0800 Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.2017141863-212058698-946264578@topica.com> Does anyone have experience using the SW4024 SLT (silent) mode on a grid connected backup power system without renewable inputs? Does it reduce power consumption? Is there any particular reasons to use it or not to use it?.. Also I just had a customer call with a peculiar problem with his SW4024. It is a brand new system - grid connected backup power with 12 Trojan L16's. The circuit breaker from the grid kicked (I had the grid amps set too high), the house ran the batteries down to about 40% and during this time he reported intermittant flickering of his lights, not related to any big loads. Has anyone seen this? Today my "Y2K Lady" really panicked when her cable TV line failed and the grid quit at the same time. She thought something was wrong the the system I had installed and I was confused when the E-meter amps reading was -1 while supposedly the grid had failed. After driving 45 minutes to troubleshoot, she told me everything was working normally. It turned out that only one side of the grid had failed and the side to which I connected the inverter was ok while the other side feeding some of her main grid loads was off. Lesson learned: I need to have a chart of her circuits in her file so I could quickly determine if a one sided grid failure had happened by simply asking her what was working and what was not! One other question, has anyone had a problem with the furling cable on a Bergey 1500 sticking and holding the tail in furled position? Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar and Wind 200 West Road North Chittenden, VT 05763 cvsolar at aol.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From ellison at gisco.net Mon Dec 27 04:46:03 1999 From: ellison at gisco.net (Bob Ellison) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 01:46:03 -0800 Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.206795277-212058698-946287963@topica.com> John, I have run into a 1500 that behaved like that, I think that lightning had something to do with it. It only stuck when furled with the winch all the way. I was always able to loosen it by shaking a guy wire - sometimes violently. Thanks, Bob RE. Ellison Alternative Energy Systems & Supplies 34642 Countryman Road Theresa, New York. USA. 13691-2076 -----Original Message----- From: cvsolar at aol.com [mailto:cvsolar at aol.com] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 10:16 PM To: RE-wrenches at topica.com Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Does anyone have experience using the SW4024 SLT (silent) mode on a grid connected backup power system without renewable inputs? Does it reduce power consumption? Is there any particular reasons to use it or not to use it?.. Also I just had a customer call with a peculiar problem with his SW4024. It is a brand new system - grid connected backup power with 12 Trojan L16's. The circuit breaker from the grid kicked (I had the grid amps set too high), the house ran the batteries down to about 40% and during this time he reported intermittant flickering of his lights, not related to any big loads. Has anyone seen this? Today my "Y2K Lady" really panicked when her cable TV line failed and the grid quit at the same time. She thought something was wrong the the system I had installed and I was confused when the E-meter amps reading was -1 while supposedly the grid had failed. After driving 45 minutes to troubleshoot, she told me everything was working normally. It turned out that only one side of the grid had failed and the side to which I connected the inverter was ok while the other side feeding some of her main grid loads was off. Lesson learned: I need to have a chart of her circuits in her file so I could quickly determine if a one sided grid failure had happened by simply asking her what was working and what was not! One other question, has anyone had a problem with the furling cable on a Bergey 1500 sticking and holding the tail in furled position? Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar and Wind 200 West Road North Chittenden, VT 05763 cvsolar at aol.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From sunwise at win.bright.net Wed Dec 29 10:02:48 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 07:02:48 -0800 Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1408822546-212058698-946479768@topica.com> Greetings John, Don't know why you'd want to use the silent mode without a generator component. Regarding the flickering lights, probably the search watts set too high. Factory default at 60, I usually drop it down to 16 (minimium). KGN At 07:16 PM 12/26/99 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have experience using the SW4024 SLT (silent) mode on a grid >connected backup power system without renewable inputs? Does it reduce power >consumption? Is there any particular reasons to use it or not to use it?.. >Also I just had a customer call with a peculiar problem with his SW4024. It >is a brand new system - grid connected backup power with 12 Trojan L16's. >The circuit breaker from the grid kicked (I had the grid amps set too high), >the house ran the batteries down to about 40% and during this time he >reported intermittant flickering of his lights, not related to any big loads. > Has anyone seen this? > Today my "Y2K Lady" really panicked when her cable TV line failed and the >grid quit at the same time. She thought something was wrong the the system I >had installed and I was confused when the E-meter amps reading was -1 while >supposedly the grid had failed. After driving 45 minutes to troubleshoot, >she told me everything was working normally. It turned out that only one >side of the grid had failed and the side to which I connected the inverter >was ok while the other side feeding some of her main grid loads was off. >Lesson learned: I need to have a chart of her circuits in her file so I could >quickly determine if a one sided grid failure had happened by simply asking >her what was working and what was not! One other question, has anyone had a >problem with the furling cable on a Bergey 1500 sticking and holding the tail >in furled position? >Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. > >John Blittersdorf >Central Vermont Solar and Wind >200 West Road >North Chittenden, VT 05763 >cvsolar at aol.com > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Get your favorite topic delivered daily. >http://www.topica.com/t/11 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From michael.welch at homepower.com Fri Oct 15 12:57:21 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:57:21 -0700 Subject: Who else? [RE-Wrenches] Message-ID: <1700761680-1463792638-1081908972@boing.topica.com> The value of this list depends mightily on the number of EXPERIENCED installers that we get on board. Please send me your suggestions with email addresses on who we should invite to participate. Send to michael.welch at homepower.com rather than the entire list. And I apologize in advance because I don't really qualify as a "wrench" under the strict guidelines set up for participating ... but heck, somebody's got to get this going. Here's lists of the so-fars. Sorry that the software does not track names, only email addresses, so this might be a bit cryptic. The following are signed up on the list: michael.welch at homepower.com ben.root at homepower.com don.loweburg at homepower.com econnect at snowcrest.net joe.schwartz at homepower.com richard.perez at homepower.com aurora at toad.net ellison at gisco.net powersense at horizon.co.fk madownin at itt.com sunmountain at netstep.net jackwest at alaska.net microhydro at dplus.net ian.woofenden at homepower.com The following have been invited to sign up but have not yet responded: deandjh at halcyon.com frenergy at psln.com gosolar at bucky.win.bright.net solarvil at netpath.net karn at ka9q.ampr.org kootster at snowcrest.net wescowes at aol.com redwood at codecheck.com sharkey at mrsharkey.com engineering at continet.com jdailey at mtaonline.net sunwise at win.bright.net ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 From MADOWNIN at itt.com Fri Oct 15 13:38:37 1999 From: MADOWNIN at itt.com (Downing, Mark) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:38:37 -0500 Subject: Who else? [RE-Wrenches] Message-ID: <355520810-1463792638-1081909003@boing.topica.com> I have sent a couple of messages to this effect, so this may be redundant, but since the wrong address appears in your "signed up" list, I will reiterate. Please remove the address "madownin at itt.com" and replace it with "solarman1 at tk7.net". While either address will reach me, the "itt.com" is my day job and is not appropriate for this use. Please also invite: aaasolar at rt66.com Smitty/Chuck experts in solar DHW, pool heat and more swilley at nidlink.com Steve Willey at Backwoods Solar Thanks, Mark Downing Hurshtown Alternative Power > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Welch [mailto:michael.welch at homepower.com] > Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 11:55 > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com > Subject: Who else? [RE-wrenches] > > > The value of this list depends mightily on the number of > EXPERIENCED installers that we get on board. Please send me > your suggestions with email addresses on who we should invite > to participate. Send to michael.welch at homepower.com rather > than the entire list. > > And I apologize in advance because I don't really qualify as > a "wrench" under the strict guidelines set up for > participating ... but heck, somebody's got to get this going. > > Here's lists of the so-fars. Sorry that the software does not > track names, only email addresses, so this might be a bit cryptic. > > The following are signed up on the list: > > michael.welch at homepower.com > ben.root at homepower.com > don.loweburg at homepower.com > econnect at snowcrest.net > joe.schwartz at homepower.com > richard.perez at homepower.com > aurora at toad.net > ellison at gisco.net > powersense at horizon.co.fk > madownin at itt.com > sunmountain at netstep.net > jackwest at alaska.net > microhydro at dplus.net > ian.woofenden at homepower.com > > The following have been invited to sign up but have not yet responded: > > deandjh at halcyon.com > frenergy at psln.com > gosolar at bucky.win.bright.net > solarvil at netpath.net > karn at ka9q.ampr.org > kootster at snowcrest.net > wescowes at aol.com > redwood at codecheck.com > sharkey at mrsharkey.com > engineering at continet.com > jdailey at mtaonline.net > sunwise at win.bright.net > > > ------------------------ > "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you > get a lot of scum on top." > > Edward Abbey > > Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com > Associate Editor, Home Power magazine > Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance > (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > > To unsubscribe > send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine > > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. > http://www.topica.com/t/4 From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Oct 25 16:48:36 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:48:36 -0700 Subject: neat trick [RE-Wrenches] Message-ID: <738820237-1463792126-1081909024@boing.topica.com> I helped out with a PV workshop installation this weekend. There was a utility line-worker at the workshop who showed us a neat trick. If you have some plastic conduit or carflex with cable or wire in it, you can still cut it VERY easily and with a lot more control than with blades by getting some thin nylon string, wrapping it part way around, and pulling it back and forth across the conduit or carflex. It works great and seemed just as fast as with a hack saw. The covering on the contained cables was not even nicked. ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 From econnect at snowcrest.net Mon Oct 25 19:49:33 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:49:33 -0700 Subject: neat trick [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.47336541-212058698-940895373@topica.com> >I helped out with a PV workshop installation this weekend. There was >a utility line-worker at the workshop who showed us a neat trick. > >If you have some plastic conduit or carflex with cable or wire in >it, you can still cut it VERY easily and with a lot more control >than with blades by getting some thin nylon string, wrapping it part >way around, and pulling it back and forth across the conduit or >carflex. > >It works great and seemed just as fast as with a hack saw. The >covering on the contained cables was not even nicked. > > >Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Michael etal, It is a neat trick, BUT you have to mind two things. First, the cord has to be strong yet pretty thin. I like standard "mason's string" Second, once you start, DON"T STOP! The dang plastic can melt around the string and it's a bitch to get it out! Best, Bob-O Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From jackwest at alaska.net Wed Nov 3 03:39:06 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 00:39:06 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.232984163-212058698-941618346@topica.com> Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod sine wave?? Jack West Talkeetna AE - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From econnect at snowcrest.net Wed Nov 3 11:08:47 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:08:47 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.771922424-212058698-941645327@topica.com> Hiya Jack, Haven't heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. It all depends on the type of power supply they are using. Some switching supply configurations will not lock on to the mod square wave at all. apparently your gets it some time. Some of the Apple Quadra and Performa series would do that as well. I'd get a sine wave. Probably the Exeltech XP250. Best, Bob-O >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 3 13:58:18 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:58:18 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1689607411-212058698-941655498@topica.com> Hello Jack I'm not surprised that you are having problems. In general, the later model Macs (since the Quadras) don't like mod sine power. Even if they do work, they don't last long. We have two iMacs but I haven't had the balls to plug them into mod sine power. I'd suggest a small sine wave inverter. Check out the Exeltechs. The XP1100 is an outstanding deal. They also make a 125 watt model. Richard Home Power >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 3 14:00:48 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:00:48 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1815152328-212058698-941655648@topica.com> I'll stick a Brand and a Fluke on the iMacs at the office and we'll see what they draw steady state and starting surge. I suspect not much. I think Bob-O's on to the problem. The switching power supply is having trouble syncing up with the mod sine waveform. Richard At 09:10 -0800 11/3/99, Michael Welch wrote: >Also, that little inverter might not be able to reliably handle the >surge of the monitor and other equipment all starting at once. > >At 08:08 AM 11/3/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >Hiya Jack, > >Haven't heard of that, but it wouldn't surprise me. It all depends >on the type of power supply they are using. Some switching supply >configurations will not lock on to the mod square wave at all. >apparently your gets it some time. Some of the Apple Quadra and >Performa series would do that as well. I'd get a sine wave. Probably >the Exeltech XP250. > >Best, Bob-O > > > >>Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt > >>mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot > >>at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a > >>sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod > >>sine wave?? > >> > >>Jack West > >>Talkeetna AE ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Wed Nov 3 16:27:52 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:27:52 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.249143006-212058698-941664472@topica.com> Jack and List; My first reaction was to pitch the damned Mack in the trash and get a PC, but that's not what you want to hear. I don't know what Richard means when he says that the Mack power supply won't "sync up" The very first component in any AC driven switching power supply is a full-wave rectifier. After that it's all DC until it goes into the MOSFET's to be chopped into high frequency square waves to be fed to the transformer for step-down. My hit on this is that the Mack isn't presenting a very attractive load to the mod wave inverter, so it's not broadening out the waveform, resulting in low RMS value and consequently a low DC voltage inside the switching supply. Try running another load (like a 25 or 50 watt incandescent lamp) while you try to boot it. Sine wave is the way to go, but my PC runs just fine on a Trace 812, so you should be able to run one of those little bitty think boxes from modified sine too. -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From sunwise at win.bright.net Wed Nov 3 20:49:02 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:49:02 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1302204044-212058698-941680142@topica.com> Hey and howdy, Try turning on a small incandescent light (20watt?) to load the inverter prior to booting the Mac. KGN At 12:39 AM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. >http://www.topica.com/t/4 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From sunwise at win.bright.net Wed Nov 3 20:50:15 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 17:50:15 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1379891242-212058698-941680215@topica.com> Hi again, Forgot to mention in my last message, you can shut the light off once you got the Mac's power button turned on. KGN At 12:39 AM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod >sine wave?? > >Jack West >Talkeetna AE > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. >http://www.topica.com/t/4 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From jackwest at alaska.net Thu Nov 4 02:36:09 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 23:36:09 -0800 Subject: I-Mac trouble [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1814697560-212058698-941700969@topica.com> Thanks for all the info. this is what I didn't tell you. This is a customers computer. I tried a starting load (compact flourescent!) and it didn't help. No incandescents on location. I'll have to try it though. Start up surge was measured at 168 watts, about 105 running. Once it does boot, everything seems fine. I'll keep you posted on future devolopements Jack West Talkeetna AE Kurt Nelson wrote: > Hi again, Forgot to mention in my last message, you can shut the light off > once you got the Mac's power button turned on. KGN > > At 12:39 AM 11/3/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Having trouble with an I-Mac starting reliably on an AC Genius 200 watt > >mod sine wave. Sometimes takes two tries to boot, sometimes won't boot > >at all. Sometimes works first try. Always works on genny. Is this a > >sine wave only computer? Anyone else have trouble with Mac's on mod > >sine wave?? > > > >Jack West > >Talkeetna AE > > > > > >- - - - - - - > >To send a message to the list use: > > > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: > > > >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > > >for info contact: > > > >_____________________________________________________________ > >Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. > >http://www.topica.com/t/4 > > > > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. > http://www.topica.com/t/4 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Got a Favorite Topic to Discuss? Start a List at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/4 From jackwest at alaska.net Sun Nov 7 03:52:48 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:52:48 -0800 Subject: More i-Mac info [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1683495390-212058698-941964768@topica.com> The troublesome Mac is quite new, maybe just a few months old. Battery voltage was never below 12.5 while I was there. I'm going to try a UPG400 as soon as it arrives and if that doesn't work we'll go to the Exeltech250. Jack West - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ We've got email newsletters galore! Check 'em out at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/5 From michael.welch at homepower.com Mon Nov 22 14:21:04 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:21:04 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.104888105-212058698-943298464@topica.com> Hello, gang. I have been getting subscription requests from folks that some of us would not consider "pro" wrenches. Yet I feel that they, you, and the industry as a whole may benefit from having these folks on the list. Can we work together to define more precisely who should be on this list. I would like to allow as many folks as possible to be on the list, but I do not want to compromise its value for the rest of you. If we let the definition range to wide, then it loses value for the hard core pros. If it is too narrow, then use can become stagnant and we might end up excluding some valuable folks. Two people came to mind while I was thinking about this. The first was someone who is mostly into HVAC but has on rare occasion built PV into his systems for uninterruptibility. The second is my partner Kelly, who has wrenched several systems, does not wrench for a living, yet does tech support for a big RE dealer. Home Power #74 will be out soon, and it mentions the Wrench mail list, so I expect to get a lot of requests to be added to the list soon. It would be great if I had a little more direction from you all to make sure the list is valuable, not too exclusive, and to make my job easier. We already have several folks from HP on the list that are not pros, myself included. How about this only as a starting point for the purpose of discussion: To be allowed to post to RE-Wrenches (keep in mind that ANYONE can read the posts archived at our list server www.topica.com), candidates must be included in one or more of the following categories: 1. Be a professional RE wrench focusing on the installing of home scale RE electric systems. 2. Be a professional RE installer whose focus is not RE electricity, but in the course of work must occasionally wrench on RE electric systems. (Can we get more specific about this one?) 3. Be an individual that has wrenched on a minimum of five RE electric systems. (This for non-pros that are WAY into it.) 4. Be a home scale RE electrical tech support person working for a dealer of RE products. (This for non-wrench pros that could benefit from our expertise, and who commonly help the public with problems in their systems.) 5. ????? (Anyone else we should consider?) Michael Welch ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From info at backwoodssolar.com Tue Nov 23 15:02:29 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:02:29 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.491098609-212058698-943387349@topica.com> Michael, I am new at reading this so don't count this to heavily. I thought you intended to start a group for any in the profession to discuss issues, technical problems, legal issues, equipment quality and suitability issues and help each other with stickier problems encountered in the field. In that case it perhaps would include those who are installing systems repetitively, and even such as I who am rarely wrenching anymore but am in contact to solve such customer problems 12 hours a day. But not individual customer help inquiries because there are places for that in home Power, and various dealer's like Charlie Collins and like my own email and website. To do that would get just swamped with mail every day, as I am now answering about 20 a day. I used to jump into those newsgroups for PV but have not had time for a year because my own email has turned busier than the newsgroups recently. Also perhaps not off topic, however you define that, like solar thermal or ?? Steve Willey info at backwoodssolar.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: ________________________________________________________________________ Start an Email List For Free at Topica. http://www.topica.com/register From econnect at snowcrest.net Wed Nov 24 11:21:59 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 08:21:59 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1439075579-212058698-943460519@topica.com> Michael, It's a tough one. Certainly folks like Kelly and Steve Wiley should be included. Doug from Real Goods would be OK with me as well, but not all the "sales technicians" from RG and elsewhere. Then too, I have problems with someone like Charlie Collins who will just ask us to solve his customers problems because he is either too lazy or incompetent to do it himself. Where and how do we draw the line? I want to share my knowledge and sweat-drenched experiences with fellow wrenches, but I don't want to get ripped off by the folks whom I feel are trashing the business either. I also agree with Steve that we should cull solar thermal, steam, etc. What to do? Bestest, Bob-O - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From i2p at aol.com Wed Nov 24 12:13:33 1999 From: i2p at aol.com (i2p at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:13:33 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1761325499-212058698-943463613@topica.com> Michael, I trust your judgement on whom to include. Going down the path of defining membership in too much detail can get convoluted and unnecessarily complicated. I'm pretty open to the concept of self definition. IF someone considers themselves a wrench-then they are. Best, Don - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From steveahicks at yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 12:30:36 1999 From: steveahicks at yahoo.com (Steve Hicks) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 09:30:36 -0800 Subject: Who Else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1923921821-212058698-943464636@topica.com> Wrenches: I'd like to see the list stay just the way it is. Do-it-yourselfers have Home Power to turn to and their existing dealers. I have been burned too many times over the years providing free consulting advice to the feeloaders. Now for a technical item. Recently I lost a Tri-Metric meter. Bogart Engineering is happy to cover it under warranty. It most likely failed when I was testing a 1/4 HP shunt wound DC motor. The inductive load off the field may have done the meter in. I'll do more testing when I get the meter back. Bogart Engineering said a sure cure would be to install their $15 lightening protector. Steve Hicks Mountain Pass Wind Company P.O. Box 394 White Sulphur Springs, Montana 59645 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 24 15:33:10 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:33:10 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.2009894029-212058698-943475590@topica.com> Hello Bob-O and the Wrench Group I agree with Bob-O on this one. This list needs to have both give and take. Everyone who participates should have something to contribute, and hopefully everyone will learn something on a regular basis. I think we need to have biz persons who aren't specifically Wrenches on this list. Tech support folks, distributors, and folks who work with the OEMs are all part of this industry and certainly will have valuable contributions. I suggest a "situation ethic". Let's decide this on a person by person basis rather than trying to make up a hard and fast rule about who is allowed to participate. I'd hate to see this list become an "old boys' club" where we sit around and discuss what we already know. Richard >Michael, >It's a tough one. Certainly folks like Kelly and Steve Wiley should >be included. Doug from Real Goods would be OK with me as well, but >not all the "sales technicians" from RG and elsewhere. Then too, I >have problems with someone like Charlie Collins who will just ask us >to solve his customers problems because he is either too lazy or >incompetent to do it himself. Where and how do we draw the line? >I want to share my knowledge and sweat-drenched experiences with >fellow wrenches, but I don't want to get ripped off by the folks >whom I feel are trashing the business either. >I also agree with Steve that we should cull solar thermal, steam, etc. >What to do? >Bestest, Bob-O ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Wed Nov 24 15:36:07 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:36:07 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.554615015-212058698-943475767@topica.com> All; Well, I don't know, I probably don't have the right to an opinion, because according to the "guidelines" I've read so far, I probably don't have a right to be on the Wrenches list either. I guess it bothers me a little that this is turning out to be an "us-and-them" issue. Sure, denying access to the list will help force out less scrupulous dealers and installers, but in the process, you may also be turning your back on someone who is less capable because they need education. The very bottom line is that their customers will suffer, and THAT is bad for solar power in general. My local Library doesn't make value judgements based on their client's financial situation, clothing, intent for use of the information, hair style, or any other intangible reason of that sort. As long as they abide by the rules of social exchange (shirt, shoes, service), they can look at any of the books, and even check them out if they can provide a permanent street address. Even the homeless can at least sit and read. The reference desk is open to all. I'd rather live in an open society, wouldn't you? The only reason I can see to limit access to posting to the list is to keep the volume of e-mails from getting too large to be manageable, and from what I've seen, that hasn't been a problem so far.... But... that's just my opinion. -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From richard.perez at homepower.com Wed Nov 24 19:54:11 1999 From: richard.perez at homepower.com (Richard Perez, Home Power magazine) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:54:11 -0800 Subject: SW4024 question [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.946585734-212058698-943491251@topica.com> Hello Wilson You are not alone. Others are having exactly the same problem with the SW series in sell mode. It seems that the software is not up to the job of balancing both utility-intertie and battery maintenance. Currently, as far as I know, there is no real fix for this. With the current software, you must manually choose between SELL and LBX modes. Joe Schwartz and Michael Welch of Home Power are working on an article about this. They are in contact with Trace (Christopher Freitas) and various Wrenches concerning this. I'm also sending this message to the RE Wrench mail group. Perhaps there is someone who has solved this problem. Wrenches, please respond to both the Wrench Group and to Wilson on this message. Richard Home Power >Hi there, > Please help... My system consists of a Trace SW4024 inverter, a PC250 >charge controller and 16 (each), L-16 batteries wired series/parallel for >24VDC. I am grid-tied (net-metered and selling) to the local utility and >enjoy watching my meter spin backwards. > I would like to configure my system to sell power to the utility >(inverted from my panels' production when the sun shines or my batteries, >otherwise). When my batteries need charging, I would like to use the sun to >recharge them. The manual doesn't do a great job explaining how this might >be done, nor is it clear that the inverter/software will allow this to happen. > I think I'm missing something obvious or that I'm not configuring my >inverter correctly. Is this something that is easy to provide (a software >tweak)? My phone call(s) to Trace don't seem to answer my question unless >I'm willing to manually switch between SELL and LBX modes on the inverter. >Please help... >Thanks, >Wilson Reynolds >"dosbobos at aol.com" ------------------------------------ Richard Perez Home Power PO Box 520, Ashland, OR 97520 USA Tele: 530-475-3179 FAX: 530-475-0836 Subscriptions: 800-707-6585 mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com Web: http://www.homepower.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From deandjh at halcyon.com Wed Nov 24 23:21:51 1999 From: deandjh at halcyon.com (deandjh at halcyon.com) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:21:51 -0800 Subject: Automatcic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.485644192-212058698-943503711@topica.com> I have a SW4024 with 1.3KW of PV and sell to the local electric cooperative. My problem was if I left the inverter in sell mode, when the sun went down the inverter would consume power while continuing to maintain the sell voltage overnight until the sun appeared the next morning. Being an imbedded software engineer I knew there was a better way. I purchased a Z-world imbedded controller with built-in serial ports and analog to digital converter. The a serial port on the controller is connected to a Trace Comm interface. The controller reads the voltage off a 60-amp shunt connected to the PV supply. Using a simple histeresas algorithm the controller commands the inverter to "sell" mode after the PV current has be 5 amps or above for three minutes. Conversely when the PV current drops below 5 amps for six minutes the controller commands the inverter back to the "SLT", silent mode. While not an inexpensive solution, it has been working great for the last six months. Darren Emmons - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From ellison at gisco.net Thu Nov 25 06:30:32 1999 From: ellison at gisco.net (Bob Ellison) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 03:30:32 -0800 Subject: Automatcic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.611044542-212058698-943529432@topica.com> Interesting solution, What does it cost to assemble one of the controllers and would you be willing to do some more of them? It sounds like something Trace should be looking at. Have a good Thanksgiving, Bob Ellison RE. Ellison Alternative Energy Systems & Supplies 34642 Countryman Road Theresa, New York. USA. 13691-2076 -----Original Message----- From: deandjh at halcyon.com [mailto:deandjh at halcyon.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 11:22 PM To: DosBobos at aol.com; RE Wrenches Subject: Automatcic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] I have a SW4024 with 1.3KW of PV and sell to the local electric cooperative. My problem was if I left the inverter in sell mode, when the sun went down the inverter would consume power while continuing to maintain the sell voltage overnight until the sun appeared the next morning. Being an imbedded software engineer I knew there was a better way. I purchased a Z-world imbedded controller with built-in serial ports and analog to digital converter. The a serial port on the controller is connected to a Trace Comm interface. The controller reads the voltage off a 60-amp shunt connected to the PV supply. Using a simple histeresas algorithm the controller commands the inverter to "sell" mode after the PV current has be 5 amps or above for three minutes. Conversely when the PV current drops below 5 amps for six minutes the controller commands the inverter back to the "SLT", silent mode. While not an inexpensive solution, it has been working great for the last six months. Darren Emmons - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From powersense at horizon.co.fk Thu Nov 25 09:11:54 1999 From: powersense at horizon.co.fk (Clive Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 06:11:54 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches]/lightning protection Message-ID: <0.1300002502.848551476-212058698-943539114@topica.com> Hi guys! Being the only active wrench in the Falkland Islands, a lonesome situation, I was pleased to be asked to join this list. Great having something to tap into if needed, and hopefully contribute to - living way offroad, I am used to quick fixes. Bob-O (Hi!) has been/is a tower of strength but of course he's a busy busy man. My wife Rosemary is on a heap of craft lists, spinning etc. She says these usually have a ListMom (guess that makes you the ListDad Michael!) who rides herd. If folks get way off topic or unpleasant/argumentative the ListMom wields her cyberwhip and turns them back on track. If they keep being a pain in the rear end, they get bounced, being allowed to read but not post. My thoughts for what they're worth is that this list is so new, it's still in a suck-it-and-see stage. Why not be a bit more flexible, allow anyone installing/maintaining/troubleshooting RE 'normal' systems ie wind, sun, hydro to join. Not open it way up to people who are simply interested in RE. But keep a beady eye on things and issue a set of rules to everyone (also normal on most other lists). Point out in these rules that there is an archive for consultation before posting a question, to avoid endless questions about the same things - and if it's something basic they should first go ask the guy who sold them the equipment. Tell them this isn't a chat list, it's hands-on stuff. If the list is opened to all and sundry, without rules, there'll be a flood of mail and no-one will have time to read it all, never mind respond. And now to tap into the collective wisdom - Lightning. I install domestic size systems which include Trace SW inverters. How can I best protect the input and output of these from transient over voltage? I asked Trace, who said get in touch with the experts, Harger being one. Faxed Harger with typical system details and zilch since. We get a fair bit of lightning damage down here and Trace say this is a common problem. Am not interested in SOCs because you can't tell if they have taken a hit until they burst. You also need fast fuse protection with them. Any thoughts? Thanks! cheers for now Clive PowerSense Falkland Islands powersense at horizon.co.fk http://www.falklandwool.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Thu Nov 25 10:56:02 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 07:56:02 -0800 Subject: Automatic control of SW4024 [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1043108333-212058698-943545362@topica.com> For those of you who are not software engineers, there is a simple solution to this problem, which uses off-the-shelf hardware to accomplish the task. 1) Install a heavy duty contactor in the AC input of the trace. The coil should be operated by 12 (or 24) volts DC. It is only necessary to switch the "hot" leg of the AC. Just be sure that the contactor can handle the full current that the Trace is programmed to draw/backfeed. 2) Connect the coil of this relay through one of the programmable on-board auxillary relays, so that the normally open relay contacts supply voltage to the contactor (again 12 volts, dc) when the relay is energized. 3) Program the relay to be activated at the bulk charge voltage, and set the hysteresis so that the relay pull-out voltage is several tenths of a volt *below* your float voltage. 4) Program the grid usage timer for the time you want the Trace to shut down and go into search mode. This is "set end charge time" on menu #18. 5) Program the grid usage time to begin charging about a half-hour after the "set end charge time", or whenever you think there will be insufficient sun to bring the batteries up to bulk voltage at the end of the day. This is "set charge start time" on menu #18. This is important, as it "resets" the system and readies it for another cycle. This time can be anytime *before* your PV's start to supply current, but I always set it for right after I know I'm done charging for the day. 6) Program "set battery sell volts" in menu 17 to sell the battery voltage to several tenths of a volt *below* your relay hysteresis voltage. Also program "set sell amps" to something like 5 amps, enough to cause the battery terminal voltage to droop a bit below the "set battery sell volts" voltage. 7) Provide a small toggle switch to defeat the relay and energize the contactor for manual charging. Alternately, use the menus to lower the relay voltage programming until the relay pulls in, energizing the contactor. Here's how it works: Over night you consume ampere-hours from your battery bank. Next morning, the sun comes up and replenishes the batteries. When the batteries get full, the terminal voltage rises to the bulk charge level, and the relay supplies voltage to the contactor, which in turn, supplies AC power to the AC1 input of the Trace. The Trace syncs up to the grid and enters intertie mode, selling the excess PV power to the utility. After bulk charging, which is regulated by the Trace feeding power to the grid, float charging commences. The relay stays pulled in and AC continues to be connected to the Trace. Late in the day, where there is no further useful current from the PV's, the Trace tries to sell the batteries at the programmed time down to the programmed voltage. As there is insufficient PV current, the battery terminal voltage sags just a bit, the auxillary relay de-energizes, the contactor drops out, and the inverter goes into "search"mode, waiting for a load or for the terminal voltage to again rise to bulk levels. It may be necessary to adjust the relay hysteresis to prevent the relay from dropping out if you use high-current loads on the inverter while it is connected to the grid, as the batteries will try to take up the slack from the AC line during motor starting, etc. Here are my current settings: Menu Item # 10, Battery Charging "Set Bulk Volts DC" -14.6 "Set Float Volts DC" - 13.4 Menu Item #14, Auxillary Relays "Set Relay 9 Volts DC" - 14.6 "R 9 Hysteresis volts DC" - 1.5 (13.1 volts) Menu item #17, Battery Selling: "Set Battery Sell Volts" - 13.0 "Set Battery Sell Amps" - 5 Menu item 18, Grid Usage Timer "Set Charge Start Time" - 17:30 "Set End Charge Time" - 17:00 These values are for a 12 volt system, using a Trace SW2512. Obviously, you would need to adjust your programmed voltages to correspond to a 24 volt system, and use a 24 volt contactor. Disadvantages: Won't work with wind or other unpredictable sources of power input. Does not put the inverter in "silent mode" (This is an advantage to me!) Requires periodic adjustment of start and end charge times, seasonally. Does not shut down inverter during inclement weather after a sunny period. It's "stupid" and works only as a timer, not a PV current sensor. This solution has been working great for me for several years, and is quite inexpensive. Parts, including a proper enclosure for the contactor shouldn't cost more than $30.00. Now if I could just get Darren to start working on the serial interface program for Windows for the SW series.... -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From microhydro at dplus.net Thu Nov 25 11:26:08 1999 From: microhydro at dplus.net (Ron Macleod) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:26:08 -0800 Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1598664373-212058698-943547168@topica.com> Hello All- I like Clive's approach to the Wrench list - Richard had good ideas too - I'm a little concerned about the potential e-mail volume; so lets limit things to bone fide Wrenches and dealers (Good) - Maybe if the list Nanny (Michael) can devote the time - he could filter questions from regular folks and then pose them to the group where appropriate. A big job I admit - maybe HP could do that - a new Q&A column? "Ask The Wrenches" Yo we have to avoid a mutual admiration society here. Anyway - Last month I suggested to Michael - that we all introduce ourselves and our specialties - You guys may know each other - I'm not sure -but I don't know most of you and I'd like to. Michael suggested the intro was a good idea but I should wait 'til things got started - well they're started. I think as new members come on board they should do the same. So here goes - pick a format - who cares Name: Cameron MacLeod 111 Company: C. MacLeod & Co. Company Desc. Manufacturer of Micro Low Head Turbine Gen. Sets - Consulting Position: Owner - etc. - etc. - etc. Experience: 22 Years - hands on in Small and Micro Hydro Location : 2131 Harmonyville Rd., Pottstown, Pa 19465 , USA E-Mail microhydro at dplus.net Age: OLD Life Goal : Make a more consistent living from RE and create more than I destroy. Comments: I've been around a while - working mostly in the Northeast with a few trips overseas. I have a strong background in ultra low head reaction turbine work ( see HP#23)- some experience with Pelton and Turgo wheels and waterwheels. Electrical wrenching has been mostly conventional Ac and a lot of High Voltage (110-220 volt) DC. Pretty good at electro-mechanical stuff and control design. I'm pretty electronically illiterate, but I'm working at it . Battery experience is Lead acid - wet cell NiCad and Nickel Iron. Inverter experience - some but I need More. My current obsession is to manufacture an ultra low head reaction battery charger that folks can afford. I'm almost there! So Guys - I don't know about you yet - I'd like to - Please go for it - no more anonymity! Best - Ron - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Thu Nov 25 11:36:11 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 08:36:11 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches]/lightning protection Message-ID: <0.1300002502.708925315-212058698-943547771@topica.com> Hi Clive; I agree with you, too many rules and restrictions spoil the soup. As for your lightning problems. Be sure to ground the hell out of your equipment. You are probably already doing this, but I'm talking about several ground stakes in a circle, connected together with wide copper strap. This is called a ring ground, and it is usually installed outside the perimeter of the building the equipment is installed in. Copper straps radiate inward from all corners to the equipment racks. Ground your towers, PV arrays, and anything else that's metal. Copper strap ground radials buried about 6" deep and 10 meters long leading away from your ring ground system makes it even better. Now that you have produced the best ground in the neighborhood to attract all the lightning, let's concentrate on keeping it out of your equipment. Spark gaps are the first line of defense. Commercially made spark gaps are available, but I doubt that they are any more sophisticated than home made units which use automotive sparking plugs. The center conductor of the plug gets connected to your wiring and the shell is securely grounded. They must be mounted in a proper enclosure to prevent shorts, shocks, and bugs from building nests on them! Use brand-new ones, as used plugs will be worn and have oily deposits. Place spark gaps at each end of any run of wire that enters/exits the equipment building. More gaps = more protection. A very cheap and effective way of discouraging lightning is to place a 1 meter diameter loop in every wire that enters the equipment building. This loop should be in free air, and the ends of the loop should not touch each other physically. Lightning has a very fast rise time and behaves much like radio frequency energy. The inductance of the loop will help the lightning look for another path to ground. Ferrite cores can be very helpful for the same reason. Place ferrite torroids on all wiring entering or leaving the equipment building. Best of all (but not cheap) is to prevent lightning from striking you at all. Commercially made static dissipator arrays can protect your PV's and wind equipment from even being hit in the first place. These consist of a "crown of thorns" or straight rows of sharp metal spikes, much like large stainless steel thistle heads. Their job is to dissipate static buildup before a corona is formed and thus prevent the ionization of the surrounding air, resulting in a strike. One maker of this product is "Stati-Cat" by Cortana Corp. As a Broadcast Engineer, I have used all of these methods, and so far have been very lucky to have lost only a small bit of equipment to severe lightning striking our 415 foot tall tower. At our FM site, lightning has melted solder after hitting the radiating elements of our antenna, and fused de-icer wiring inside the conduits, but never so much as a damaged diode inside the building. Good luck, stay in touch. -S - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From powersense at horizon.co.fk Thu Nov 25 12:55:31 1999 From: powersense at horizon.co.fk (Clive Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 09:55:31 -0800 Subject: lightning protection/who's who [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1611033555-212058698-943552531@topica.com> Thanks for the advice, Sharkey. Much appreciated. Agree with Ron, good to have intros so we know who's talking. Name: Clive Wilkinson Company name: PowerSense. email etc - see sig lines Company profile: There's a heap of stuff on our website but takes a month to plough through it all. Lot of stuff about farm, crafts, islands etc. Basically - I'm a sheepfarmer (no jokes please, believe me I've heard 'em all). Turned to RE 10 years ago for own use, was asked by other farmers to advise them and eventually built up a business supplying and installing systems, most of them incorporating wind turbines. (PV is used for fencing vast areas of grazing land, up to 150 miles from one energiser, no serious use otherwise, not enough sun.) Systems often synchroneous with diesel gensets. (Try the PowerSense page for a quickish intro or check out HP #55 to see a typical system). I get my Trace inverters etc through Electron Connection, have visited the Trace plant, and done some hands-on stuff alongside Bob-O. This business has taken over from wool as our main income. Life here isn't easy due to remoteness. This is also the ultimate test site for wind turbines, strong gusty often 'dirty' winds. I use Proven turbines - work pretty closely with Proven Engineering (Scotland) on development. and think they have learned a lot from experiences here. Lead acid batteries are made to order for us by Chloride Motive Power (England). Age? fifty mumble mumble Life goal? to see everyone here enjoying 24 hour power (there's no national grid). Getting there slowly... cheers Clive Clive Wilkinson PowerSense Falkland Islands powersense at horizon.co.fk http://www.falklandwool.com tel +500 42202 fax +500 42203 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From sharkey at mrsharkey.com Thu Nov 25 15:44:32 1999 From: sharkey at mrsharkey.com (Sharkey) Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 12:44:32 -0800 Subject: Me's who, that's who! [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.281556144-212058698-943562672@topica.com> Who's who? Well, here is a rather long-winded episode that I wrote to introduce myself to the readers of a New Zealand magazine for which I write a monthly article regarding renewable enrgy as it pertains to mobile (RV) installations. For more information stop by my web site at The fascination of the workings of electricity haven't worn off after forty years, since that day when my Grandfather gave me a couple of telephone dry-cells and a low voltage tail lamp bulb to play with. I burnt my finger that day, shorting out the cells with a piece of wire, but the power lurking in the tall, cylindrical battery was enough to captivate my interest in spite of that small setback. My home for the last 24 years has been a Housetruck built in the body of a converted 1962 Chevrolet C-40 moving van. Shortly after setting up habitation in the truck, I moved to a remote 40 acre property that was ½ mile beyond the electrical grid. As candles and kerosene lamps were not sufficient for close work or reading, I invested in a pair of deep-cycle traction batteries to provide electric illumination and to power a small radio receiver. In order to charge the batteries, I installed a 100 watt Winco windcharger, which I rebuilt from scrap. Due to the nearby trees, and the shortness of the wind plant's tower, I mostly ended up hauling the 130 pound bulk of the batteries using a barrow to the nearest electrical outlet, sometimes in axle-deep mud! In those days, photovoltaic modules were quite expensive and hard to find. In 1982, I worked in Portland, OR, for a company which installed and serviced high-powered Jacobs wind machines. These 10Kw grid-inertied wind plants were mostly located in the Columbia River Gorge, which has some of the most constant high-velocity wind to be found in the Pacific-Northwest. Nearly every week, we went to repair a machine that had blown apart in a high wind, replacing the sitka spruce blades, each 12 feet long. I kept warn that winter by burning the old blades in the wood stove. I figured my fire wood that winter was worth about $30,000! It didn't burn very well, and barely put out any heat at all! I also became involved in the erection and testing of an experimental high efficiency down-wind plant that was underwritten by a grant from the U.S. Dept of Energy. My first electric vehicle was purchased in 1984, a used General Electric Electrak electric garden and lawn tractor. This 36 volt battery-powered tractor has a 15 horsepower motor, and is equipped with a three-blade, front mounted mower and a 48 inch wide rear mounted tiller. It made the task of mowing almost pleasurable, and is very handy for hauling, yarding, grading and a variety of other tasks. A well known renewable energy supply company organized a national "Off the Grid Day" in 1991, a day during which citizens concerned about this country's energy policies would consume no electricity as a political statement. At the end of the day, I decided that this was too easy and vowed to go a whole week with my main circuit breakers turned off. A week stretched into a month, during which time I constructed a flat-plate solar collector for heating bath water. Due to my access to a large set of storage batteries, and with the help of a very small photovoltaic panel and my antique wind machine, I was able to live comfortably for the entire period. When the electric company read my watt-hour meter, they sent out a technician to check it to see why it had malfunctioned and read no consumption since the last reading! Since that time, I have made a commitment to consume all energy more wisely, and invest whenever possible in renewable energy equipment that will allow me to produce at least a portion of my own electric power. Most recently, I purchased an electric-powered automobile, and installed a sizable photovoltaic module array to charge it from. On a more mundane note, my occupation is that of a Broadcast Engineer, responsible for the construction, maintenance and repair of radio broadcast facilities. I am a volunteer at the Oregon Country Fair, where I serve as a radio dispatch operator, telephone installer, and supply a sizable renewable energy system to power the staff kitchen and quartermaster offices. There is nothing I like better than lying asleep on a warm summer night in my solar-heated hot tub. - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From aurora at toad.net Sun Nov 28 09:54:19 1999 From: aurora at toad.net (Aurora Energy) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 06:54:19 -0800 Subject: Who else [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.677556472-212058698-943800859@topica.com> Hello Comrades, Some thoughts on the issue at hand of "who'll make the list" and a personal introduction. I guess I'd like to call myself a wrench, I've designed and installed 30+ home PV systems in MD/PA/VA/NY and have dabbled in wind. I make my living doing this now though for eight years I was an electrician mainly working in historic home renovation. I know I don't have as much experience or intimate knowledge of the idiosyncrasies of RE components as some of you guys, though I hope to contribute whatever I've learned in RE or in the trade. I am excited about this forum as I am confident it will help me produce better systems for my clients. The main concern I see in others responses to the list question, are the same as my own, namely will we come home from a long day in the field and find a huge list of emails from the list with no time to even read them let alone respond to them. This does bother me because I have that problem with all the lists I've tried to be a part of in the past. I'm afraid that if the volume gets too large, the most experienced (busy) people will drop out just from an annoyance factor. However, I firmly believe that no one can waste my time unless I give it to them and so, if we feel that there is a unnecessary question posted, we can simply delete it and not respond. I agree with others that we should not create a club (especially not a boy's only club) nor should we place full responsibility on Michael for the hard decisions of who'll make the cut. I guess I'm saying it's up to all of us to not encourage excessive listings, and to bring up any concerns that we have right away before it gets out of hand. Here are just a couple of specifics I'll suggest. 1. We all make ample use of the subject line to help readers identify whether or not the question fits their interest/ expertise. 2. We can send comments to Michael directly if we feel a particular person is being unhelpful to the group. 3. We take advantage of the personal intro to get to know each other and our levels of experience. 4. New members are alerted that this is a cantankerous bunch who do not take kindly to having their time wasted. 5. Michael works extra hours to make everyone happy. Final concern, can we assume that the list is not accessible to merchants to pedal there wares? Thanks for your time and I look forward to the interactions! -- Jason Fisher Aurora Energy 86 Conduit St. Annapolis, MD 21401 USA Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 email: aurora at toad.net - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From i2p at aol.com Mon Nov 29 16:36:23 1999 From: i2p at aol.com (i2p at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:36:23 -0800 Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1720667464-212058698-943911383@topica.com> Thanks Ron for getting the ball rolling. Don and Cynthia Loweburg Offline Independent Energy The majority of our work is residential PV -some on grid most offgrid. Our system here at Offline is hybrid (small harris hydro and 1500 w pv with propane gen backup), solar thermal water,and modest use of solar archetecture. We work the central Ca region - mostly foothill area. Been at this for 17 years and learning every day. I have a academic background and am an electrical contractor but the good stuff comes from hands on and I thank my custormers for the opportunity to play. Cynthia is very knowledgeable does lot of initial contact (screening) does all the money and handles the front office while I'm design and installation. We both see offgrid as the living laboratory for this technology and are very confident that it will diffuse into the grid world. Don Loweburg - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 From aurora at toad.net Wed Dec 1 17:34:10 1999 From: aurora at toad.net (Aurora Energy) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:34:10 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.558033738-212058698-944087650@topica.com> Hello Comrades, Just a quick question, anyone got any tips for mounting a PV rack (simple, four foot type) to a slate roof? This is a new one for me, and I'm not too excited about it! -- Jason Fisher Aurora Energy 86 Conduit St. Annapolis, MD 21401 USA Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 email: aurora at toad.net - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Fri Dec 3 01:07:09 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:07:09 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.401731018-212058698-944201229@topica.com> If the slate cannot be used as a practical mounting surface, it is often possible to secure a top-of-pole mount to the edge of the roofing framework, and support the pole clear down to the ground at the bottom. I have seen some fairly large mounts like this beside the end of a building's roof, bracketed to the roof as it passes the edge, and extending 4 to 6 feet above the roof. Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: ________________________________________________________________________ Start an Email List For Free at Topica. http://www.topica.com/register From sunwise at win.bright.net Fri Dec 3 11:01:19 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:01:19 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1930357072-212058698-944236879@topica.com> Hey Jason, Do you really need to go roof mounted? Roof mounts can be problematic in general and by code require the addition of a GFI device. If you need the hight, a top of pole mount or tracker can gain additional support by attaching to the eve at the peak of the roof and is cemented in the ground at the base alongside the house. Also, south wall mounted PV's work well, and although there can be some sun lost during the summer months, most systems need all the gain they can get during the winter months, and the wall mounted panels preform fine at that time. My home has seasonally adjusted wall mounted pv's and I'm pretty happy with the set-up. The house is two story and the PV's are above the first story windows and provide shading to those windows from the high summer sun. During the winter, when the panels are lowered, the sun enters the passive solar windows making the arrangement nearly perfect. If you don't need the hight (good solar window), a pole mount within reasonable distance from the house is a good choice and limits your liabilailty cause you aren't drilling so many holes in the house and roof. Good luck -- Kurt Nelson, SOLutions At 02:34 PM 12/1/99 -0800, you wrote: >Hello Comrades, > >Just a quick question, anyone got any tips for mounting a PV rack >(simple, four foot type) to a slate roof? This is a new one for me, and >I'm not too excited about it! > >-- >Jason Fisher > >Aurora Energy >86 Conduit St. >Annapolis, MD 21401 >USA > >Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 >email: aurora at toad.net > > > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. >You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. >http://www.topica.com/t/9 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From michael.welch at homepower.com Fri Dec 3 14:02:42 1999 From: michael.welch at homepower.com (Michael Welch) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 11:02:42 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.2083097400-212058698-944247762@topica.com> At 10:07 PM 12/2/1999 -0800, you wrote: >If the slate cannot be used as a practical mounting surface, it is often >possible to secure a top-of-pole mount to the edge of the roofing framework, >and support the pole clear down to the ground at the bottom. I have seen >some fairly large mounts like this beside the end of a building's roof, >bracketed to the roof as it passes the edge, and extending 4 to 6 feet above >the roof. I ran just such a mount installation by the folks at Two Seas last spring. They said, "Don't do it" as the wind loads could easily tear away the facia boards. If you use this method, the pole mount should be free standing, that is, able to survive without being attached to the house. That means some serious engineering which may include guy wires just like a wind tower. If you use the facia, it will also have to be structural and engineered for the wind loads. That said, I had heard of a company that designed slate roof attachments. Quite awhile ago they submitted an article to Home Power, but neither Richard or I can recall the particulars. Michael Welch ------------------------ "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." Edward Abbey Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com Associate Editor, Home Power magazine Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Sat Dec 4 16:12:06 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 13:12:06 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.326258739-212058698-944341926@topica.com> I was not suggesting connection to trim boards. I had assumed that a qualified solar installer would make good attachment to the frame of the house, perhaps I should have taken time to specify that much. There are some very huge arrays installed this way at Bill Gross Solar own home in Montana that I know of, larger than I would recommend, but they stay because of solid welded brackets and through bolt mount to the framing of the house. Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Welch To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 11:02 AM Subject: Re: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] > At 10:07 PM 12/2/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >If the slate cannot be used as a practical mounting surface, it is often > >possible to secure a top-of-pole mount to the edge of the roofing framework, > >and support the pole clear down to the ground at the bottom. I have seen > >some fairly large mounts like this beside the end of a building's roof, > >bracketed to the roof as it passes the edge, and extending 4 to 6 feet above > >the roof. > > I ran just such a mount installation by the folks at Two Seas last spring. They said, "Don't do it" as the wind loads could easily tear away the facia boards. If you use this method, the pole mount should be free standing, that is, able to survive without being attached to the house. That means some serious engineering which may include guy wires just like a wind tower. > > If you use the facia, it will also have to be structural and engineered for the wind loads. > > That said, I had heard of a company that designed slate roof attachments. Quite awhile ago they submitted an article to Home Power, but neither Richard or I can recall the particulars. > > Michael Welch > > ------------------------ > "Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of scum on top." > > Edward Abbey > > Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com www.homepower.com > Associate Editor, Home Power magazine > Office Coordinator, Redwood Alliance > (Not HP mag's #s) 707-822-7884 fax: 707-822-3481 > > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. > You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. > http://www.topica.com/t/9 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Mon Dec 6 00:16:54 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:16:54 -0800 Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.845206898-212058698-944457414@topica.com> Per Ron Macleod's request, here is a summery of Who is for us: Backwoods solar was started back in 1978 or before as a hobby installing wind power, since we (Steve and Elizabeth Willey) were off grid and finding solutions as we went along. Soon solar became the main product, still for remote homes in the north woods. As our customer list grew we tried doing a newsletter which turned into a catalog business, and just grew 15 to 20% a year. I then had to quit the GTE town job, then Elizabeth quit her job, no regrets ever. Then we hired a helper, then another, finally Y2K business brought us to 5 total people. We rarely install anymore, referring that to local electricians, simply because we work 9 to 12 hours a day just doing the "make a million in mail order from home" trip. We do make some custom products and spend one full time person on answering mail and email and giving personal service. we try to follow-up and solve all problems, hence while no longer throwing many wrenches, we deal with the technology and field problems on a full time basis. Backwoods Solar wants to re-focus and slow down a little, to service the independent-stand-alone-owner built-off grid situation as our primary focus. Statistics: about 20,000 mailing list, one catalog and 2 or 3 newsletters mailed per year, website www.backwoodssolar.com, phone 263-4290, toll free fax 888-263-4290 (don't let the telemarketers get that one). Glad to see this functioning group. Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems A catalog business on a mountain 2 miles from utility lines, powered entirely by our catalog products. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Macleod To: Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 8:26 AM Subject: Who is who? [RE-wrenches] > Hello All- > I like Clive's approach to the Wrench list - Richard had good ideas > too - I'm a little concerned about the potential e-mail volume; so lets > limit things to bone fide Wrenches and dealers (Good) - Maybe if the > list Nanny (Michael) can devote the time - he could filter questions > from regular folks and then pose them to the group where appropriate. A > big job I admit - maybe HP could do that - a new Q&A column? "Ask The > Wrenches" > > Yo we have to avoid a mutual admiration society here. > > Anyway - Last month I suggested to Michael - that we all introduce > ourselves and our specialties - You guys may know each other - I'm not > sure -but I don't know most of you and I'd like to. Michael suggested > the intro was a good idea but I should wait 'til things got started - > well they're started. I think as new members come on board they should > do the same. > > So here goes - pick a format - who cares > > Name: Cameron MacLeod 111 > Company: C. MacLeod & Co. > Company Desc. Manufacturer of Micro Low Head Turbine Gen. Sets - > Consulting > Position: Owner - etc. - etc. - etc. > Experience: 22 Years - hands on in Small and Micro Hydro > Location : 2131 Harmonyville Rd., Pottstown, Pa 19465 , USA > E-Mail microhydro at dplus.net > Age: OLD > Life Goal : Make a more consistent living from RE and create more than I > destroy. > > Comments: I've been around a while - working mostly in the Northeast > with a few trips overseas. I have a strong background in ultra low head > reaction turbine work ( see HP#23)- some experience with Pelton and > Turgo wheels and waterwheels. Electrical wrenching has been mostly > conventional Ac and a lot of High Voltage (110-220 volt) DC. Pretty good > at electro-mechanical stuff and control design. I'm pretty > electronically illiterate, but I'm working at it . Battery experience is > Lead acid - wet cell NiCad and Nickel Iron. Inverter experience - some > but I need More. My current obsession is to manufacture an ultra low > head reaction battery charger that folks can afford. I'm almost there! > > So Guys - I don't know about you yet - I'd like to - Please go for it - > no more anonymity! > > Best - Ron > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > What's hot at Topica? Sign up for our "Best New Lists" > newsletter and find out! http://www.topica.com/t/8 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. http://www.topica.com/t/9 From info at backwoodssolar.com Mon Dec 20 10:43:28 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:43:28 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1493851982-212058698-945704608@topica.com> I wonder what folks are thinking about the PV ground fault interrupters. Trace seems to have one code accepted for power room installation, yet we have had no requests for this even for systems installed in tightly enforced areas. Mostly perhaps because people are favoring ground mounts over roof, nevertheless we have had NO requests at all from electricians. Question is, what is the future of this or like devices and what shall we do with stocking and cataloging it in this coming year? Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems A catalog business on a mountain 2 miles from utility lines, powered entirely by our catalog products. IF UTILITY POWER IS 1/2 MILE OR MORE FROM YOUR SITE, get our free 160 page solar-electric Planning Guide/Catalog. (Your postal address required - Our list is never given or sold). Phone(208)263-4290 Fax (208) 265-4788 in Idaho, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: Kurt Nelson To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 8:01 AM Subject: Re: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] > Hey Jason, > > Do you really need to go roof mounted? Roof mounts can be problematic in > general and by code require the addition of a GFI device. If you need the > hight, a top of pole mount or tracker can gain additional support by > attaching to the eve at the peak of the roof and is cemented in the ground > at the base alongside the house. Also, south wall mounted PV's work well, > and although there can be some sun lost during the summer months, most > systems need all the gain they can get during the winter months, and the > wall mounted panels preform fine at that time. My home has seasonally > adjusted wall mounted pv's and I'm pretty happy with the set-up. The house > is two story and the PV's are above the first story windows and provide > shading to those windows from the high summer sun. During the winter, when > the panels are lowered, the sun enters the passive solar windows making the > arrangement nearly perfect. If you don't need the hight (good solar > window), a pole mount within reasonable distance from the house is a good > choice and limits your liabilailty cause you aren't drilling so many holes > in the house and roof. Good luck -- Kurt Nelson, SOLutions > > At 02:34 PM 12/1/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Hello Comrades, > > > >Just a quick question, anyone got any tips for mounting a PV rack > >(simple, four foot type) to a slate roof? This is a new one for me, and > >I'm not too excited about it! > > > >-- > >Jason Fisher > > > >Aurora Energy > >86 Conduit St. > >Annapolis, MD 21401 > >USA > > > >Voice/ Fax: 410-268-3088 > >email: aurora at toad.net > > > > > > > > > >- - - - - - - > >To send a message to the list use: > > > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: > > > >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > > >for info contact: > > > >_____________________________________________________________ > >Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. > >You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. > >http://www.topica.com/t/9 > > > > > > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Start the new year off right by referring a list to Topica. > You'll earn $300 and your list owner friends will thank you. > http://www.topica.com/t/9 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: ________________________________________________________________________ Start an Email List For Free at Topica. http://www.topica.com/register From econnect at snowcrest.net Mon Dec 20 11:20:49 1999 From: econnect at snowcrest.net (Bob-O Schultze) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:20:49 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.779378125-212058698-945706849@topica.com> Dear Steve ETAL, My basic feeling about the PV GFP is that it is a product developed to fill a Code requirement for which there is no need. A solution in search of a problem. Perhaps you could make a case for it in a high voltage array, but 12, 24, 48V? Naw. I've installed a couple to please inspectors, but the way you have to route the grounding is devious and I have NO idea whether the bugger even works. Trace doesn't even have a can to put it in unless you get it as part of a Power Module, but AEE does. Best, Bob-O >I wonder what folks are thinking about the PV ground fault interrupters. >Trace seems to have one code accepted for power room installation, yet we >have had no requests for this even for systems installed in tightly enforced >areas. Mostly perhaps because people are favoring ground mounts over roof, >nevertheless we have had NO requests at all from electricians. Question is, >what is the future of this or like devices and what shall we do with >stocking and cataloging it in this coming year? > >Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com >Backwoods Solar Electric Systems Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ You share a similar passion. You align with common interests. You connect over a favorite topic. You belong at Topica. http://www.topica.com/t/10 From jackwest at alaska.net Tue Dec 21 02:39:09 1999 From: jackwest at alaska.net (Jack D West) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:39:09 -0800 Subject: PV Rack on Slate Roof? [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.157788044-212058698-945761949@topica.com> Steve, I have not installed any roof mounted PV's and stick stricktly to poles because of snow accumulation. I don't see a GFI for roof mounted PV's in my future. I highly recommend pole mounts for anyone in snow country. Like Bob-O says, a solution looking for a problem... Jack West Bob-O Schultze wrote: > Dear Steve ETAL, > My basic feeling about the PV GFP is that it is a product developed > to fill a Code requirement for which there is no need. A solution in > search of a problem. Perhaps you could make a case for it in a high > voltage array, but 12, 24, 48V? Naw. > I've installed a couple to please inspectors, but the way you have to > route the grounding is devious and I have NO idea whether the bugger > even works. Trace doesn't even have a can to put it in unless you get > it as part of a Power Module, but AEE does. > Best, Bob-O > > >I wonder what folks are thinking about the PV ground fault interrupters. > >Trace seems to have one code accepted for power room installation, yet we > >have had no requests for this even for systems installed in tightly enforced > >areas. Mostly perhaps because people are favoring ground mounts over roof, > >nevertheless we have had NO requests at all from electricians. Question is, > >what is the future of this or like devices and what shall we do with > >stocking and cataloging it in this coming year? > > > >Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com > >Backwoods Solar Electric Systems > > Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection > PO Box 203, Hornbrook, CA 96044 > 800.945.7587 fax 530-475-3401 > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > You share a similar passion. You align with common interests. > You connect over a favorite topic. You belong at Topica. > http://www.topica.com/t/10 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From cvsolar at aol.com Tue Dec 21 06:19:54 1999 From: cvsolar at aol.com (cvsolar at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:19:54 -0800 Subject: Roof Mount/ GFI etc. [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.324888860-212058698-945775194@topica.com> Hi all, I think the roof mount/GFI issue has been covered but I'll put in my two cents. I agree roof mounts should be a last resort location and I was glad to hear others question the need for GFI's. I have been lucky with only asphalt and metal roofs to deal with so far and they are no fun. I had one job where we had to put the panels on the roof as it was the only place where they couldn't be seen from the road. The town had strict controls on everything people did to their properties. They can' t even run a conduit on the outside of the house! jJohn Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar and Wind cvsolar at aol.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From info at backwoodssolar.com Tue Dec 21 10:20:44 1999 From: info at backwoodssolar.com (Steve Willey - Backwoods Solar Electric) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:20:44 -0800 Subject: Roof Mount/ GFI etc. [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.73374981-212058698-945789644@topica.com> In the northwest we do have a problem that the rooftop in many cases is the only place where the sun shines in winter. This time of year sun is about 18 degrees off the horizon at noon, so any sort of forest will shadow a ground mount in December. But then it may be overcast all December anyway. In any case a lot of them do go on roofs for that reason, and even there few GFI's are ever requested for inspected jobs. I just wonder if this is something that we can ignore from our catalog listings one more year, and the replies are beginning to encourage ignoring it. Its always available by request I guess... Steve Willey www.backwoodssolar.com Backwoods Solar Electric Systems A catalog business on a mountain 2 miles from utility lines, powered entirely by our catalog products. IF UTILITY POWER IS 1/2 MILE OR MORE FROM YOUR SITE, get our free 160 page solar-electric Planning Guide/Catalog. (Your postal address required - Our list is never given or sold). Phone(208)263-4290 Fax (208) 265-4788 in Idaho, USA ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 3:19 AM Subject: Roof Mount/ GFI etc. [RE-wrenches] > Hi all, > I think the roof mount/GFI issue has been covered but I'll put in my two > cents. I agree roof mounts should be a last resort location and I was glad > to hear others question the need for GFI's. I have been lucky with only > asphalt and metal roofs to deal with so far and they are no fun. I had one > job where we had to put the panels on the roof as it was the only place where > they couldn't be seen from the road. The town had strict controls on > everything people did to their properties. They can' t even run a conduit on > the outside of the house! > > jJohn Blittersdorf > Central Vermont Solar and Wind > cvsolar at aol.com > > - - - - - - - > To send a message to the list use: > > To view an archive of previous messages go to: > To unsubscribe send an email message to: > > Hosted by Home Power magazine: > > for info contact: > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get your favorite topic delivered daily. > http://www.topica.com/t/11 > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From cvsolar at aol.com Sun Dec 26 22:16:18 1999 From: cvsolar at aol.com (cvsolar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:16:18 -0800 Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.2017141863-212058698-946264578@topica.com> Does anyone have experience using the SW4024 SLT (silent) mode on a grid connected backup power system without renewable inputs? Does it reduce power consumption? Is there any particular reasons to use it or not to use it?.. Also I just had a customer call with a peculiar problem with his SW4024. It is a brand new system - grid connected backup power with 12 Trojan L16's. The circuit breaker from the grid kicked (I had the grid amps set too high), the house ran the batteries down to about 40% and during this time he reported intermittant flickering of his lights, not related to any big loads. Has anyone seen this? Today my "Y2K Lady" really panicked when her cable TV line failed and the grid quit at the same time. She thought something was wrong the the system I had installed and I was confused when the E-meter amps reading was -1 while supposedly the grid had failed. After driving 45 minutes to troubleshoot, she told me everything was working normally. It turned out that only one side of the grid had failed and the side to which I connected the inverter was ok while the other side feeding some of her main grid loads was off. Lesson learned: I need to have a chart of her circuits in her file so I could quickly determine if a one sided grid failure had happened by simply asking her what was working and what was not! One other question, has anyone had a problem with the furling cable on a Bergey 1500 sticking and holding the tail in furled position? Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar and Wind 200 West Road North Chittenden, VT 05763 cvsolar at aol.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From ellison at gisco.net Mon Dec 27 04:46:03 1999 From: ellison at gisco.net (Bob Ellison) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 01:46:03 -0800 Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.206795277-212058698-946287963@topica.com> John, I have run into a 1500 that behaved like that, I think that lightning had something to do with it. It only stuck when furled with the winch all the way. I was always able to loosen it by shaking a guy wire - sometimes violently. Thanks, Bob RE. Ellison Alternative Energy Systems & Supplies 34642 Countryman Road Theresa, New York. USA. 13691-2076 -----Original Message----- From: cvsolar at aol.com [mailto:cvsolar at aol.com] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 1999 10:16 PM To: RE-wrenches at topica.com Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Does anyone have experience using the SW4024 SLT (silent) mode on a grid connected backup power system without renewable inputs? Does it reduce power consumption? Is there any particular reasons to use it or not to use it?.. Also I just had a customer call with a peculiar problem with his SW4024. It is a brand new system - grid connected backup power with 12 Trojan L16's. The circuit breaker from the grid kicked (I had the grid amps set too high), the house ran the batteries down to about 40% and during this time he reported intermittant flickering of his lights, not related to any big loads. Has anyone seen this? Today my "Y2K Lady" really panicked when her cable TV line failed and the grid quit at the same time. She thought something was wrong the the system I had installed and I was confused when the E-meter amps reading was -1 while supposedly the grid had failed. After driving 45 minutes to troubleshoot, she told me everything was working normally. It turned out that only one side of the grid had failed and the side to which I connected the inverter was ok while the other side feeding some of her main grid loads was off. Lesson learned: I need to have a chart of her circuits in her file so I could quickly determine if a one sided grid failure had happened by simply asking her what was working and what was not! One other question, has anyone had a problem with the furling cable on a Bergey 1500 sticking and holding the tail in furled position? Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar and Wind 200 West Road North Chittenden, VT 05763 cvsolar at aol.com - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11 From sunwise at win.bright.net Wed Dec 29 10:02:48 1999 From: sunwise at win.bright.net (Kurt Nelson) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 07:02:48 -0800 Subject: Trace SW4024 SLT mode [RE-wrenches] Message-ID: <0.1300002502.1408822546-212058698-946479768@topica.com> Greetings John, Don't know why you'd want to use the silent mode without a generator component. Regarding the flickering lights, probably the search watts set too high. Factory default at 60, I usually drop it down to 16 (minimium). KGN At 07:16 PM 12/26/99 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have experience using the SW4024 SLT (silent) mode on a grid >connected backup power system without renewable inputs? Does it reduce power >consumption? Is there any particular reasons to use it or not to use it?.. >Also I just had a customer call with a peculiar problem with his SW4024. It >is a brand new system - grid connected backup power with 12 Trojan L16's. >The circuit breaker from the grid kicked (I had the grid amps set too high), >the house ran the batteries down to about 40% and during this time he >reported intermittant flickering of his lights, not related to any big loads. > Has anyone seen this? > Today my "Y2K Lady" really panicked when her cable TV line failed and the >grid quit at the same time. She thought something was wrong the the system I >had installed and I was confused when the E-meter amps reading was -1 while >supposedly the grid had failed. After driving 45 minutes to troubleshoot, >she told me everything was working normally. It turned out that only one >side of the grid had failed and the side to which I connected the inverter >was ok while the other side feeding some of her main grid loads was off. >Lesson learned: I need to have a chart of her circuits in her file so I could >quickly determine if a one sided grid failure had happened by simply asking >her what was working and what was not! One other question, has anyone had a >problem with the furling cable on a Bergey 1500 sticking and holding the tail >in furled position? >Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. > >John Blittersdorf >Central Vermont Solar and Wind >200 West Road >North Chittenden, VT 05763 >cvsolar at aol.com > > >- - - - - - - >To send a message to the list use: > >To view an archive of previous messages go to: >To unsubscribe send an email message to: > >Hosted by Home Power magazine: > >for info contact: > >_____________________________________________________________ >Get your favorite topic delivered daily. >http://www.topica.com/t/11 > > - - - - - - - To send a message to the list use: To view an archive of previous messages go to: Hosted by Home Power magazine: for info contact: _____________________________________________________________ Get your favorite topic delivered daily. http://www.topica.com/t/11