<div dir="ltr"><div>Jeff, this is the most recent document I have on the topic.</div><div><br></div><div>The video frame capture pic of the flying garage door hitting the fire chief is pretty dramatic. But yes some incidents were DIY lithium battery banks, some were EVs+chargers, etc. I don't think I've seen an official after-action incident report yet about any UL-9540 compliant lithium battery install causing a fire.</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.iaff.org/wp-content/uploads/IAFF_DOE_ResidentialESSConsiderations_Final.pdf">https://www.iaff.org/wp-content/uploads/IAFF_DOE_ResidentialESSConsiderations_Final.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12pt;line-height:inherit;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12.8px;line-height:inherit;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Dan Fink</span></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12pt;line-height:inherit;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12.8px;line-height:inherit;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC</span></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12.8px;line-height:inherit;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-size:12.8px">IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation</span></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12.8px;line-height:inherit;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span style="font-size:12.8px">NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector</span></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12.8px;line-height:inherit;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(34,34,34)">NABCEP PV Associate</div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12.8px;line-height:inherit;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="mailto:dan.fink@greendustrialtraining.com" target="_blank">d</a><a href="mailto:anbob88@gmail.com" target="_blank">anbob88@gmail.com</a></div><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:12.8px;line-height:inherit;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(34,34,34)">970-672-4342</div></div><br> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 2:20\u202fPM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Have there been any LFP catastrophic fires that weren\u2019t homemade packs or bicycle packs without quality BMSs? <div><br></div><div>All the fires I \u2018ve heard of are LiPo or LiNMC - not LFP.</div><div><br></div><div>Best </div><div><br></div><div>Jeff</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br id="m_7269802446853627514lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 12, 2025, at 12:55\u202fPM, Jay via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">\ufeff<div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">You guys are making my point. </div><div dir="ltr">Melting the cases is not a fire. And every melted agm case is due to incorrect charging mechanisms. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">But there have been some cases on this site of catastrophic lithium failures. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I am starting to see people asking about fires and lithium. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">These batteries are in the house. Not my design and not an easy fix to move them. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Thanks again</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jay </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 12, 2025, at 10:52\u202fAM, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">\ufeff<div dir="auto"><div>I had the exact same thing happen(even down to the crowbar) with the only set of full river 400 6's I've ever installed. I personally lean away from agm though we've had pretty good luck with the Outback and Northstar PLR platform over the year..</div><div><br></div><div><br> </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jan 12, 2025, 9:39\u202fAM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<p>The only thermal runaway event I've ever seen, was with AGM in an
over insulated battery box. Got so hot that the cases fused to
each other, and we had to pry the batteries apart with a crow
bar. She wants ZERO risk of fire? She needs to live in a
concrete bunker with no electricity at all. Every electrical
connection, every outlet, every appliance has a risk of fire.
Period.</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div>On 1/12/2025 9:39 AM, Tyrone Houck via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div>I hate to be the one to say it but LFP has arguably less
fire risk than agm. A short circuit in an agm could be
disastrous and AGM is not necessarily any safer or less prone
to thermal runaway events than modern LFP. I'd recommend a
cobalt free LFP like homegrid, simpliphi, or midnite if it
were me..</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 11, 2025, 3:38\u202fPM
jay via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>I was going to try
and steer her towards lithium but she wants zero, absolutely
zero chance of fire, so no lithium.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>great batteries though</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>jay<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br id="m_7269802446853627514m_-6779490390839839746m_5650226487739232990lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:35\u202fPM, MD Electric &
Solar via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">30KWH of LFP from
discover energy, fits in one enclosure, around
$14000.00</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Enclosure is
indoor/outdoor rated.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><a href="https://discoverenergysys.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://discoverenergysys.com/products/lithium-batteries/aes-rackmount</a></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><a href="https://discoverenergysys.com/products/accessories/slimline-enclosure" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://discoverenergysys.com/products/accessories/slimline-enclosure</a></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan
11, 2025 at 3:31\u202fPM jay via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">HI
Willam <br>
<br>
Thanks for the input.<br>
I didn\u2019t know that trojan was sold, and from
what you say, yeah scratch them off. <br>
<br>
It\u2019s currently at 30kwh. And thats probably a
good size. <br>
As always, cost and time is a factor. <br>
<br>
I\u2019ll check the others out.<br>
<br>
jay<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Jan 11, 2025, at 4:17\u202fPM, William
Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Jay:<br>
> <br>
> What AH or Kwh level are you looking for?<br>
> <br>
> Trojan was acquired by another company a
few years ago and quality had gone<br>
> downhill.<br>
> <br>
> Rolls is very sensitive to high
temperatures. They will deny a warranty<br>
> claim if all of your parameters are not
exactly right.<br>
> <br>
> For larger AH systems:<br>
> <br>
> I like the Full River DC-400-2. You
might be able to do a one string<br>
> installation.<br>
> <br>
> Unigy II is a great system. Very
robust. Hard to deliver but I can offer<br>
> tips. Lots of AH size options.<br>
> <br>
> William<br>
> <br>
> Miller Solar<br>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422<br>
> 805-438-5600<br>
> <a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.millersolar.com</a><br>
> CA Lic. 773985<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
On<br>
> Behalf Of jay via RE-wrenches<br>
> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2025 2:48 PM<br>
> To: RE-wrenches<br>
> Cc: jay<br>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] AGM battery
recommendations<br>
> <br>
> Hi All<br>
> <br>
> I have a customer what is set on AGM.<br>
> <br>
> It been so long since I\u2019ve bought any,
wondering if there are any<br>
> recommendations?<br>
> <br>
> The ones I\u2019m looking at:<br>
> <br>
> Rolls S6-460AGM-RE<br>
> <br>
> Full river DC-400-6<br>
> <br>
> Trojan SAES 06 375 6V<br>
> <br>
> sun Xtender brand.<br>
> <br>
> What\u2019s interesting is the trojan has
about 3000 cycles vs the others at<br>
> around 1250 cycles to 50%.<br>
> Im wondering if that is a marketing idea
or if its real.<br>
> <br>
> thanks in advance<br>
> <br>
> jay<br>
>
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<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br><span></span><br><span>Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br><span><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br><span><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br><span><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br><span></span><br><span>Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br><span><a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br><span><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br><span><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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