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    <p>PV System Disconnect, not RSS<br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/1/22 7:04 PM, Jeremy Rodriguez
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CY4PR19MB011744F93B2EE81FF09CB497CB279@CY4PR19MB0117.namprd19.prod.outlook.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      Just a rated disco at the ground mount?   Labeled as the rapid
      shutdown switch?  
      <div>That\u2019s  too simple!</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>In<br>
        <div><br>
          <div dir="ltr">Jeremy Rodriguez 
            <div>Solar Installation / <span style="font-size: 13pt;">Design
                Expert </span></div>
            <div>
              <div>All Solar, Inc.
                <div>1453 M St<br>
                  <div>Penrose Colorado 81240</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and
                    shorthand. </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div dir="ltr"><br>
            <blockquote type="cite">On Feb 1, 2022, at 6:49 PM, Lloyd
              Hoffstatter <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lloyd@sunstruckconsulting.com">&lt;lloyd@sunstruckconsulting.com&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div dir="ltr">\ufeff
              <div>
                <div>
                  <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
                    rgb(255, 255, 255);" dir="ltr">
                    We\u2019ve used multi-pole rated disconnects at the
                    array.</div>
                  <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
                    rgb(255, 255, 255);" dir="ltr">
                    Best regards,</div>
                  <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
                    rgb(255, 255, 255);" dir="ltr">
                    Lloyd</div>
                  <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
                    rgb(255, 255, 255);" dir="ltr">
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
                    rgb(255, 255, 255);" dir="ltr">
                    Lloyd Hoffstatter </div>
                  <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color:
                    rgb(255, 255, 255);" dir="ltr">
                    Sunstruck Consulting</div>
                </div>
                <div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">Outlook for iOS</a></div>
              </div>
              <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
              <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
                  style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
                  color="#000000"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">&lt;re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org&gt;</a> on
                  behalf of Jeremy Rodriguez
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:allsolarjeremy@msn.com">&lt;allsolarjeremy@msn.com&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 1, 2022 8:31:16 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">&lt;re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown for
                  Off-grid systems</font>
                <div> </div>
              </div>
              <div dir="auto">What about the PV circuits that leave the
                combiner and are ran on or in a building to the CC
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div><br>
                  <br>
                  <div dir="ltr">Jeremy Rodriguez 
                    <div>Solar Installation / <span
                        style="font-size:13pt">Design Expert </span></div>
                    <div>
                      <div>All Solar, Inc.
                        <div>1453 M St<br>
                          <div>Penrose Colorado 81240</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos
                            and shorthand. </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div dir="ltr"><br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">On Feb 1, 2022, at 4:07 PM,
                      Brian Mehalic <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian@solarenergy.org">&lt;brian@solarenergy.org&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
                      <br>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">\ufeff For a ground mount PV system with a
                      DC combiner, the PV source circuits are not in or
                      on a building so RS doesn\u2019t apply to them. And the
                      definition of a charge controller in Art. 100 is
                      in its relationship to batteries/storage, not
                      really the charging source - fundamentally it\u2019s
                      there to protect the storage/batteries, so it\u2019s
                      best considered part of that system, not the PV
                      system (and over the last several cycles nearly
                      all references to charge control/lers have been
                      moved out of 690). 
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div><br>
                            <br>
                            <div dir="ltr">Brian</div>
                            <div dir="ltr"><br>
                              <blockquote type="cite">On Feb 1, 2022, at
                                3:15 PM, Bradley Bassett
                                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bbassett2@gmail.com">&lt;bbassett2@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
                                <br>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr">\ufeff
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div>"A switch, outside of the
                                    building, <span
                                      style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">opening
                                      the PV circuit to the power
                                      electronics, and </span>functioning
                                    as the pv system disco and the rapid
                                    shutdown initiation device, should
                                    be all that is required."</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  That is what I have found most
                                  inspectors will accept, but not all. A
                                  strict reading of the code does come
                                  to the same conclusion that William
                                  comes to, and some inspectors will
                                  require that. The code is not very
                                  specific on where the PV system
                                  disconnect should go. It seems to be
                                  mostly accepted to be on the PV side
                                  of the charge control, but when I read
                                  the code strictly it seems to me it
                                  should be on the battery side of the
                                  charge control since it is only a PV
                                  device. Fortunately the PV side is
                                  more accepted because that makes
                                  things much easier. 
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>What I'm still having trouble
                                    with is the requirement for
                                    breaking both pos and neg legs in
                                    the PV system disconnect unless
                                    solidly grounded which most systems
                                    are not (690.13(E)). I see that most
                                    installers do not break both poles,
                                    but only the positive leg, which is
                                    of course easier and less expensive.
                                    I've quoted the use of dual pole
                                    breakers when possible, but OutBack
                                    does not really call for that
                                    always, and if you ask about their 2
                                    pole 300V breakers they (and
                                    Carling) don't say they can be used
                                    that way. And if you do, you have to
                                    run the wires in opposite directions
                                    for polarity. I've asked for
                                    clarification but have not
                                    received it yet. Then there are the
                                    high voltage charge controls like
                                    Schneider, where often one uses the
                                    SqD HU361, which can be wired in
                                    various ways to meet the 600V
                                    requirement. It can be wired one
                                    pole for up to 18A Isc for PV, or up
                                    to 30A if two poles in series, or
                                    one pos and one neg pole in the
                                    circuit. The Schneider RS Disco does
                                    break both poles, one of the few
                                    devices that make it clear. I'm
                                    curious what others are doing.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Brad</div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div class="x_gmail_quote">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On
                                    Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:23 AM Brian
                                    Mehalic &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:brian@solarenergy.org"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">brian@solarenergy.org</a>&gt;
                                    wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote class="x_gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                    border-left:1px solid
                                    rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div dir="auto">Sorry, forgot to
                                      state my previous comment was in
                                      regards to a ground-mount. <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div dir="ltr">Brian</div>
                                      <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                        <blockquote type="cite">On Feb
                                          1, 2022, at 12:19 PM, William
                                          Miller &lt;<a
                                            href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>&gt;
                                          wrote:<br>
                                          <br>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote type="cite">
                                        <div dir="ltr">\ufeff
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)">Ray:</span></p>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)"> </span></p>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)">Thanks
                                                for that input.  I was
                                                hoping I was wrong.  I
                                                looked for that
                                                discussion in the
                                                archives but could not
                                                find it.</span></p>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)"> </span></p>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)">William</span></p>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)"> </span></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)">Miller
                                                  Solar</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)">17395
                                                  Oak Road, Atascadero,
                                                  CA 93422</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)">805-438-5600</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)"><a
                                                    href="http://www.millersolar.com/"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)">CA
                                                  Lic. 773985</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
                                                  style="font-size:11pt;
font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)"> </span></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(0,51,0)"> </span></p>
                                            <div>
                                              <div
                                                style="border-right:none;
                                                border-bottom:none;
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                                                rgb(181,196,223);
                                                padding:3pt 0in 0in">
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                                                    RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
                                                    <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray<br>
                                                    <b>Sent:</b>
                                                    Tuesday, February 1,
                                                    2022 10:11 AM<br>
                                                    <b>To:</b> <a
                                                      href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
                                                    <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                                    [RE-wrenches] Rapid
                                                    Shutdown for
                                                    Off-grid systems</span></p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
                                            <p> Ground mounts do NOT
                                              require RSS.  We hashed
                                              this out years ago on the
                                              Wrenches list, when NEC
                                              2017 came out.</p>
                                            <p>See Figure 690.1(B) Note
                                              (2): <i>" The PV system
                                                disconnect in these
                                                diagrams separates the
                                                PV system from all other
                                                systems".</i></p>
                                            <p>Thus, the PV disconnect
                                              is defined as the
                                              transition point from the
                                              PV system to all other
                                              systems, like battery or
                                              inverter systems. The
                                              installer/ designer
                                              decides where to put that
                                              disconnect.  I usually put
                                              it on the wall before it
                                              goes into the building,
                                              and I have never had an
                                              inspector question that. </p>
                                            <p>Thanks,</p>
                                            <pre>Ray Walters</pre>
                                            <pre>Remote Solar</pre>
                                            <pre>303 505-8760</pre>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal">On
                                                2/1/22 10:06 AM, William
                                                Miller wrote:</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <blockquote
                                              style="margin-top:5pt;
                                              margin-bottom:5pt">
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">Jay:</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">Here
                                                  is the text from 2017:</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">690.12
                                                    Rapid Shutdown of PV
                                                    Systems on
                                                    Buildings. PV</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">system
                                                    circuits installed
                                                    on or in buildings
                                                    shall include a
                                                    rapid</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">shutdown
                                                    function to reduce
                                                    shock hazard for
                                                    emergency</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">responders
                                                    in accordance with
                                                    690.12(A) through
                                                    (D).</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">Exception:
                                                    Ground mounted PV
                                                    system circuits that
                                                    enter buildings, of</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">which
                                                    the sole purpose is
                                                    to house PV system
                                                    equipment, shall not
                                                    be</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">required
                                                    to comply with
                                                    690.12.</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">The
                                                  wording is
                                                  interesting.  The
                                                  requirement is
                                                  directed at \u201cPV system
                                                  circuits\u2026\u201d, not PV
                                                  arrays.  The passage
                                                  does not specify where
                                                  the PV feeding those
                                                  circuits is located,
                                                  it just addresses
                                                  where the circuits
                                                  are, specifically \u201cin
                                                  or on a building.\u201d</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">The
                                                  only circuits that are
                                                  exempt are those
                                                  feeding a building
                                                  that serves only one
                                                  purpose, to house PV
                                                  equipment.  For
                                                  circuits that enter
                                                  building with other
                                                  uses\u2014homes, garages,
                                                  barns, workshops,
                                                  etc.-- it would seem
                                                  there is a requirement
                                                  to have rapid shutdown
                                                  systems (RSS).</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">Reading
                                                  through the rest of
                                                  the section, I don\u2019t
                                                  see any language that
                                                  gets us out of the
                                                  requirement to reduce
                                                  voltages to less than
                                                  80 volts within 30
                                                  seconds inside the
                                                  array boundary, as in
                                                  module level shutdown,
                                                  regardless of roof-top
                                                  or ground-mount. 
                                                  Although the 2020 code
                                                  includes some
                                                  differing language, I
                                                  don\u2019t see it as
                                                  exempting ground mount
                                                  systems.</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">The
                                                  moral of the story is
                                                  this:  For
                                                  ground-mounts:  either
                                                  install RSS or put
                                                  your equipment
                                                  (inverters, charge
                                                  controllers,
                                                  batteries, BOS) in a
                                                  separate building
                                                  housing only that
                                                  equipment.</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">I
                                                  don\u2019t necessarily like
                                                  the requirement, but I
                                                  think it exists.  Jay,
                                                  or anyone, please,
                                                  please tell me I am
                                                  reading this
                                                  incorrectly. 
                                                </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">By
                                                  the way, regarding
                                                  battery circuits, here
                                                  is a quote from a post
                                                  by Bill Brooks on
                                                  March 16, 2016:</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">In
                                                    the 2017 NEC, we
                                                    were very careful to
                                                    carve out all
                                                    batteries and loads,</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">that
                                                    were previously part
                                                    of PV systems, and
                                                    place them in their
                                                    own</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)">articles.</span></i></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">I
                                                  have not read through
                                                  the battery sections
                                                  of the code to verify
                                                  this, I am taking Bill
                                                  at his word.</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)">William
                                                  Miller</span></p>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(153,51,102)">Miller
                                                    Solar</span></p>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(153,51,102)">17395
                                                    Oak Road,
                                                    Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(153,51,102)">805-438-5600</span></p>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(153,51,102)"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(153,51,102)">CA
                                                    Lic. 773985</span></p>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                    color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                  color:rgb(153,51,102)"> </span></p>
                                              <div>
                                                <div
                                                  style="border-right:none;
                                                  border-bottom:none;
                                                  border-left:none;
                                                  border-top:1pt solid
                                                  rgb(181,196,223);
                                                  padding:3pt 0in 0in">
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Jay
                                                      [mailto:<a
                                                        href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>]
                                                      <br>
                                                      <b>Sent:</b>
                                                      Tuesday, February
                                                      1, 2022 6:07 AM<br>
                                                      <b>To:</b> <a
                                                        href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>;
                                                      RE-wrenches<br>
                                                      <b>Subject:</b>
                                                      Re: [RE-wrenches]
                                                      Rapid Shutdown for
                                                      Off-grid systems</span></p>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal">2017
                                                  code has a specific
                                                  exception/clarification
                                                  for ground mount solar
                                                  that it does not need
                                                  RS. </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal">It\u2019s
                                                  in the first line
                                                  after 690.12</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal">Jay</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"
                                                  style="margin-bottom:12pt"> </p>
                                                <p class="x_MsoNormal"
                                                  style="margin-bottom:12pt">On
                                                  Feb 1, 2022, at 12:13
                                                  AM, William Miller
                                                  &lt;<a
                                                    href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
                                                    target="_blank"
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>&gt; wrote:</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <blockquote
                                                style="margin-top:5pt;
                                                margin-bottom:5pt">
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">\ufeff</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jerry:</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Yes
                                                      it is required. 
                                                      Rapid Shutdown: 
                                                      NEC 690.12.  All
                                                      buildings except
                                                      dedicated solar
                                                      buildings.  Read
                                                      it and weep.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">William</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller
                                                      Solar</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395
                                                      Oak Road,
                                                      Atascadero, CA
                                                      93422</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA
                                                      Lic. 773985</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                                                      color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Jerry
                                                      Shafer [mailto:<a
href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>]
                                                      <br>
                                                      <b>Sent:</b>
                                                      Monday, January
                                                      31, 2022 7:21 PM<br>
                                                      <b>To:</b> William
                                                      Miller;
                                                      RE-wrenches<br>
                                                      <b>Subject:</b>
                                                      Re: [RE-wrenches]
                                                      Rapid Shutdown for
                                                      Off-grid systems</span></p>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p
                                                      class="x_MsoNormal">William</p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="x_MsoNormal">Are
                                                        you sure RSD is
                                                        required on a
                                                        non habitable
                                                        building,
                                                        historically its
                                                        not required.
                                                        Now that being
                                                        said we use fire
                                                        raptor with the
                                                        best results,
                                                        yes it takes an
                                                        extra conduite
                                                        and might
                                                        require a button
                                                        and power supply
                                                        depending on
                                                        inverter
                                                        application.</p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="x_MsoNormal">Jerry</p>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <p class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="x_MsoNormal">On
                                                        Mon, Jan 31,
                                                        2022, 9:57 AM
                                                        William Miller
                                                        &lt;<a
                                                          href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">william@millersolar.com</a>&gt;
                                                        wrote:</p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      style="border-top:none;
                                                      border-right:none;
border-bottom:none; border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204); padding:0in
                                                      0in 0in 6pt;
                                                      margin:5pt 0in 5pt
                                                      4.8pt">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Friends:</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">It is quite rare for
                                                          us to install
                                                          off-grid
                                                          systems on
                                                          roof-tops.  We
                                                          have one
                                                          coming up with
                                                          about 20kW on
                                                          a large barn
                                                          roof.  This
                                                          will be our
                                                          first off-grid
                                                          with a
                                                          module-level
                                                          rapid shutdown
                                                          requirement. 
                                                          I see no
                                                          exemptions
                                                          from RSS for
                                                          off-grid
                                                          systems in the
                                                          code.  I have
                                                          looked at the
                                                          options and
                                                          this is what I
                                                          have found:</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></p>
                                                          <p><span
                                                          style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">1.</span><span
style="font-size:7pt">  
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Fire
                                                          Raptor</span></p>
                                                          <p><span
                                                          style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">2.</span><span
style="font-size:7pt">  
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Tigo
                                                          TS4-F</span></p>
                                                          <p><span
                                                          style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">3.</span><span
style="font-size:7pt">  
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">AC
                                                          coupling with
micro-inverters or optimizers</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">No one of these
                                                          approaches
                                                          seems ideal. 
                                                          The fire
                                                          raptor
                                                          requires extra
                                                          wiring for
                                                          control
                                                          leads.  The
                                                          Tigo requires
                                                          a wireless
                                                          control system
                                                          which worries
                                                          me about
                                                          reliability. 
                                                          With AC
                                                          Coupling
                                                          systems
                                                          floating the
                                                          proposed AGM
                                                          batteries may
                                                          be awkward. 
                                                          Furthermore,
                                                          with AC
                                                          coupled
                                                          systems one
                                                          cannot charge
                                                          batteries
                                                          unless the
                                                          mini-grid is
                                                          operational, a
                                                          big problem.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Have any of you
                                                          implemented
                                                          module-level
                                                          RSS on a
                                                          battery-based
                                                          inverter
                                                          system?  I
                                                          looked in the
                                                          archives and
                                                          found no
                                                          threads that
                                                          apply.  Thank
                                                          in advance.</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">William Miller</span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="x_MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </blockquote>
                                            </blockquote>
                                          </div>
                                          <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a>

List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>

Change listserver email address &amp; settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>

List rules &amp; etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>

Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>

</pre>
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