<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">HI Vince,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I\u2019m still a bit confused as to exactly which way the radian is working or what exactly its job is?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Are the sol-arks sending power to the radian or is the radian sending power to the sol-arks?</div><div class="">It appears that there is no solar, only batteries on the Radian, so its got to charge them up some how, or maybe the grid is doing that?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If its actually installed so its trying to AC couple to the Sol-Ark outputs, that won\u2019t work for a number of reasons. 1. You can\u2019t regulate the output of the radian so it might to try fill the whole load, which will cause it to overload if its beyond the 8kw. ( heck its hard enough with same OEM equipment to get them to balance) 2. if the loads are small, then the Radian might battery charge from the Sol-arks, which I\u2019m guessing that relay is the high battery cut off device? Which means it\u2019ll be turned on/off randomly and not a very good battery charging for LA. 3. It will try to frequency shift if you have that feature turned on. 4. I\u2019m sure there are a few others that I can come up with. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Let us know exactly what this radian is trying to do so we can see if there is fix/work around without reinventing the wheel.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">jay</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 20, 2022, at 1:01 PM, Vince McClellan <<a href="mailto:vince@solarenergydesign.com" class="">vince@solarenergydesign.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Jay<div class="">Thanks for taking the time to read the schematic and look into the potential issues. Never again will I let a client drive the design on a project. My client is a high level architect with an amazing attention to detail and he drove the design by doing his own research and coming back to us with why don't we do this thing so that... fill in the details.</div><div class="">We did look into the interaction between the Radian inverter and the Sol-Ark inverters on the AC side before we built the system. Tech support thought that the Radian would see the power on the homes wiring as the grid and "sell" back to the Sol-Arks. However the question that you bring up has been a question in my mind this whole time. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The reason that we aren't connecting the Radian's AC output on the gen breakers on the Sol-Ark is complicated. Basically the techs at Sol-Ark told us that it wouldn't work properly with what we are trying to accomplish. Our client also wanted to be able to charge the Radian's batteries off of the Sol-Arks power in off grid mode for instance. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The Blue Ion's do seem to have good data connection to the Sol-Ark inverters though the Namaka, but I have seen the Sol-Arks display battery voltage instead of SOC for brief moments of time on the Sol-Ark display. I will check the Blue Ion battery voltage to check for a voltage spike from the solar arrays DC input the next time I'm on site as several folks have mentioned. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">These are all great questions and I really appreciate all the thought that has gone into dissecting this issue. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">Vince McClellan</font></div><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">Energy Design</font></div><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">NABCEP PV Installation Professional</font></div><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">p. <a href="tel:(541)%20485-8122" value="+15414858122" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" class="">(541) 485-8122</a> f. <a href="tel:(541)%20338-8202" value="+15413388202" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" class="">(541) 338-8202</a></font></div></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HcXK0FTsJsEFDvKv-POVulmqJD3Ikpz4&revid=0B2VUQDDTFCz_aVNUUUNDRkNRUCtjc1oyZ3JFY2NvNWlJVGpvPQ" width="420" height="79" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><span style="font-family:"arial narrow",sans-serif" class="">If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. </span></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Vince </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">It appears to me ( might be im not clear on what\u2019s happening) that the radian is powering a backed up load. </div><div dir="ltr" class="">You\u2019re calling it AC coupled?</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">What if you connected the sol ark to the radian ac input for battery charging. Then set the grid/generator input support of the radian so it doesn\u2019t overwhelm the input but powers the loads. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">It would be connected just like a generator or grid, but not AC coupled. You shouldn\u2019t have any dropouts. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Jay</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Peltz power. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:08 AM, Mac Lewis <<a href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">\ufeff<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Vince,<div class="">That is a very complex design, so many breaker interlocks but I think I understand the intent!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When you say that you have programmed the Radian for AC coupling, that really isn't programming it to be AC coupled on its AC input side, its saying that it can AC couple inverters on its AC load side. Remember the Radian is a grid forming inverter on the load side (controls voltage and freq) and a current source on the grid input (does not control voltage and freq). How you are connecting solar modules to the Radian will tell you how to set this setting. If you are using charge controllers, you don't want AC coupling here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Look closely at the grid settings in the Radian, this will control how it will interact with the Sol-Arks at its input. Its looking at the voltage, frequency, impedance etc. on the input and deciding if it should push current. Maybe there is a setting that needs opened up a bit? Be cautious here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Anyway, here is what I would try after looking closely at the grid settings in the Radian:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Measure DC buss voltage (Blue Ion voltage) throughout this process. Do you see any abrupt changes in the DC buss voltage? At what SOC? Do you have solid communication between Sol-Ark and Blue Ion (Namaka box)? Do you ever see it drop and go to voltage mode instead of SOC communication mode? Does the same issue occur if you use voltage control on the Sol-Ark?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Turn on your DC coupling, and slowly ramp up the AC coupled current (sell current setting on the Radian). Does any AC coupled current trip it off? I suspect if the sell current is lower than the load current, there should be no freq/watt shift.</div><div class="">If you discharge the batteries deeply, does this make a difference? </div><div class="">Since you have an open Gen Input Breaker, why not put the Radian GT connection on it?</div><div class="">Do you really want the Radian to be able to discharge the Blue Ion battery bank at night?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Customer designs are tough, Good Luck!</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:16 PM Vince McClellan <<a href="mailto:vince@solarenergydesign.com" target="_blank" class="">vince@solarenergydesign.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">Thanks Pieter<div class="">We seem to have the opposite problem from what you are experiencing. Our freq-watt regulation of the Radian inverter by the Sol-Ark inverters seems to be actuated by the DC power from the solar array that is DC connected to the Sol-Ark inverters. It is supposed to be actuated by the SOC of the Blue Ion batteries, but that is inconsistent at best. We can turn the DC power from the solar array on on the master inverter, but when we try using the MPPT channels on the two other inverters it briefly actuates the freq-watt function of the Sol-Ark disconnecting the Radian inverter. </div><div class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">Vince McClellan</font></div><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">Energy Design</font></div><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">NABCEP PV Installation Professional</font></div><div class=""><font face="georgia, serif" class="">p. <a href="tel:(541)%20485-8122" value="+15414858122" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" class="">(541) 485-8122</a> f. <a href="tel:(541)%20338-8202" value="+15413388202" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank" class="">(541) 338-8202</a></font></div></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HcXK0FTsJsEFDvKv-POVulmqJD3Ikpz4&revid=0B2VUQDDTFCz_aVNUUUNDRkNRUCtjc1oyZ3JFY2NvNWlJVGpvPQ" width="420" height="79" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><span style="font-family:"arial narrow",sans-serif" class="">If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. Copying, or using any part, content, or attachment of this email is strictly prohibited. </span></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 8:20 PM Pieter Huebner <<a href="mailto:pieter@offgridenterprises.org" target="_blank" class="">pieter@offgridenterprises.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Vince, For what it is worth:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We have also been working on similar issues when using multiple Solark inverters connected in parallel. The issue has been that parallel Solark inverters don't seem to be able to properly regulate the battery charge voltage. Although Solark technical support has been outstanding, and with their help we have diminished the severity but not solved the issue. For the sites that we currently have deployed for the interim we had to resort to turning down the charge voltage set points in order to protect the Lithium batteries. and avoid BMS shutdowns. We have a client with an existing outback system and were planning to expand the existing system using AC bussed Solark 12K inverters with additional battery and solar capacity (the site is 100% off grid, and has evolved into a micro grid), but are now going a different direction. Although we have not yet attempted an AC bussed Solark system, I suspect that the issues you are having are related to the battery voltage regulation problem we have experienced.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Pieter<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span id="cid:17e78cc38cc4cff311"><image001.png></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" class="">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Vince McClellan<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 19, 2022 5:16 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" class="">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark AC Coupling Issues<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Is anyone on the list familiar with AC coupling Sol-Ark inverters?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">We haven't been able to AC couple an existing Outback Radian system to a new system that we built with 3, Sol-Ark 12K inverters and 3, Blue Ion batteries. Each time we have tested the system the Sol-Ark inverters accept the power from the Radian inverter until we turn on the DC power from the new solar array to the Sol-Ark inverters. As soon as there is significant DC power coming from the solar array the Sol-Ark inverters freq-watt turns on for a brief second and disconnects the Radian inverter even when the Blue Ion batteries are below the programmed state of charge threshold. If we don't turn on the DC power from the new solar array the Radian will connect and stay connected. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">We have been working with Sol-Ark for several months now to get this system to accept the incoming power from the Radian without freq-watt kicking in on the Sol-Ark inverters and disconnecting the Radian inverter. Sol-Ark has sent two software revisions to the Sol-Ark inverters and we are still experiencing the same problem. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Can anyone think of what we might be missing and where to direct our troubleshooting efforts next? <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Georgia,serif;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">Vince McClellan</span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Georgia,serif;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">Energy Design</span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Georgia,serif;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">NABCEP PV Installation Professional</span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Georgia,serif;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">p. <a href="tel:(541)%20485-8122" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" class="">(541) 485-8122</span></a> f. <a href="tel:(541)%20338-8202" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" class="">(541) 338-8202</span></a></span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class=""><img border="0" width="420" height="79" style="width: 4.375in; height: 0.8229in;" id="gmail-m_-5082926609748799956gmail-m_-5870291645863123814gmail-m_8617213698344152276gmail-m_-4520468909860770744_x0000_i1025" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HcXK0FTsJsEFDvKv-POVulmqJD3Ikpz4&revid=0B2VUQDDTFCz_aVNUUUNDRkNRUCtjc1oyZ3JFY2NvNWlJVGpvPQ" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow",sans-serif;color:rgb(80,0,80)" class="">If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient please delete this email. 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</blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div>Mac Lewis<br class=""><br class=""><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size: inherit; color: rgb(255, 153, 0);" class=""><b class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><p align="left" class=""><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:small" class=""><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)" class=""><font face="'times new roman', serif" class="">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)" class=""><font face="'times new roman', serif" class="">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p></font></b></span></div>
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