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<p>We've seen such poor reliability with the Ecogens, that we can't
recommend them anymore. We've seen as high as 50% failure rates
in full time off grid use as backup. Charging batteries for hours
is a very hard load and does not compare to biweekly exercise
mode. The failures have been fairly catastrophic, resulting in
blown motors. <br>
</p>
<p>The other issue with these types of pad mounted generators, as
Allan just mentioned, is that they need to be pulled and taken
into the shop for major repairs. This can quickly add another
$500 to $1000 to the cost, to have a tech with a crane pull it,
truck it in, and then reinstall it later. I'm actually just
recommending a good quality portable generator for this reason in
many cases. At least the customer can take it in themselves if
there's a problem.<br>
</p>
<p>The alternative is to get into the bigger (>20 kW) units with
water cooled motors and 1800 RPM operation. I was surprised when
I compared fuel consumption, the big units can actually use less
fuel than an Ecogen when charging with dual inverters. The
wildcat is interesting, but I'm not ready to recommend a
manufacturer I've not heard of before.</p>
<p>Another option I have not tried in cold weather, is diesels. I
have clients in warmer places with Kubotas that have offered
excellent service. I have clients in Alaska that love their
diesels, but I'm not sure what they've done to cold proof them.<br>
</p>
<p>Ray Walters</p>
<p>Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/19/2021 1:13 PM, Sindelar Solar
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6ce11681-e668-5f58-25f8-ccef78eca61b@sindelarsolar.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Gary,<br>
Interesting that you bring up Generac in response to my request.
The customer for whom I made this request for recommendations has
a dead Generac EcoGen 15kW at her property now. I don't know
what's wrong with it; it had failed before she bought the
property. But she had it checked out and was turned down for a
service call at her home, told instead that it would have to come
into the shop and that basically the cost of repairs was more than
replacement cost. So another EcoGen isn't likely at this point. <br>
<br>
Even on Generac's website, there are a surprising number of
'one-star' reviews for the EcoGen 15 (the EcoGen 6 is
discontinued). The one at my own home, an early EcoGen 6 that
Generac gave me around 2010 in return for evaluation and review,
had a throttle solenoid fail with relatively few hours on it. So I
remain cautious about Generac products.<br>
<br>
Thanks for your reply, though.<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/17/2021 8:58 AM, Gary F Willett
PE wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1634482702.8so2soihsg4w08so@webmail.aplus.net">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
Allan:<br>
<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size:
12pt; color: #000000;"> <br>
DISCLAIMER: I have no business or financial relationship with
any Generac dealer.<br>
<br>
I have owned two Generac EcoGens in the past 10 years and am
pleased with their performance. The EgoGen is configurable
using an option setting to use either LP or NG fuel. It is
warranteed for the off-grid environment, with a 500 hour
recommended interval for routine maintenance.<br>
<br>
Even though I live in an urban area, I setup my PV system in
the grid-tie battery backup configuration. I have always used
LP for fuel instead of natural gas because of some issues
we've had with natural gas reliability here in north Texas
under extreme winter weather conditions (last one here was in
mid-February).<br>
<br>
I use my EcoGen only as a battery charger in a grid-down
situation, it does not serve house loads directly. I'll admit
that most of the hours on my generator are the bi-weekly
exercise runs!<br>
<br>
I started with the 6kW 240V AC EcoGen as a field trial
participant in Generac's beta testing of the EcoGen in an
off-grid environment in 2010. Later I upgraded to the 15kW kW
240V AC model. I very pleased with this model too.<br>
<br>
So, consider Generac as an option too.<br>
<br>
Regards, Gary
<footer class="replyforwardcontainer"><br>
<br>
<span>On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 20:32:35 -0600, Allan Sindelar <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><allan@sindelarsolar.com></a>
wrote:</span><br>
<div dir="ltr">Mac, I appreciate your suggestion, thank you.
Indeed, I called a longtime regional independent generator
dealer about this before posting here. I was surprised
that he has Kohler 12s and 14s in stock and available.
I\u2019ll go that route if I don\u2019t hear better from our fellow
Wrenches. </div>
<div dir="ltr">Allan</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite">On Oct 16, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Mac
Lewis <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><maclewis1@gmail.com></a>
wrote:</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hi Allan,</div>
<div dir="auto">I suggest finding a local
long-standing generator technician and see if they
can help provide the generator. We see so many
generators bought online with no way to get service
because there are no local and qualified service
technicians to service that brand. If you buy from
a local technician, or at least ask for their
advise, it may allow you to get service in the
future (maybe). </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">We have had good success with Kohler
14 RESA or RCA machines, they do have off grid
warranties, but good luck getting them now. </div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Let us know what you decide.</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks<br>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct 15,
2021, 4:42 PM MD Electric & Solar <<a
href="mailto:mdelectricsolar@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mdelectricsolar@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">Check out Wildcat
Generators, hand built in Kansas.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">I just placed my
first order for one. 10KW LPG 1800RPM liquid
cooled, built to run 24/7. They even make a
DC (battery direct) generator.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small">You can purchase
through a master dealer in the Reno Nevada
area, Freds Mountain Electric:</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><a
href="https://fredsmountain.com/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://fredsmountain.com/</a></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small"><a
href="https://wildcatpowergen.com/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wildcatpowergen.com/</a></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Oct
15, 2021 at 3:37 PM Sindelar Solar <<a
href="mailto:Allan@sindelarsolar.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Wrenches,<br>
Generators have become a moving target,
especially for off grid applications. Most
are set up for grid backup, and I'm
assuming that many may simply be
unavailable, given that half of most
everything else is on back-order with no
expected delivery date... I'm seldom asked
to recommend a generator these days, but I
am today, so I'm requesting
recommendations from other off grid-savvy
Wrenches, please.<br>
<br>
I'm working with an older (2014?) existing
dual Outback VFX3524 system which will be
upgraded to dual VFXR-3648s to work with a
16kW Blue Ion LiFP battery bank; 4kW array
with upgrade infrastructure in place to
later add 2kW more if needed. Once the
upgrade is done I expect relatively little
generator runtime. The customer would
prefer LP fuel and 2-wire start (for
remote control). Pretty much any
well-regarded model in the 8-14 kW @240
VAC rating range could work.<br>
<br>
Thank you for your suggestions!<br>
Allan
<div>--
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal"><b><span>Allan
Sindelar</span></b><br>
<a
href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span>allan@sindelarsolar.com</span></a><br>
<span>NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman
Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span>Positive
Energy, Inc<span>.</span></span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b></span></p>
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<div><span
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D Nelson</span></div>
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<div><span
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">MD
Electric &
Solar Inc.</span></div>
<div><span
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"
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line-height:normal"><b><span
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Roman",serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">Allan Sindelar</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New
Roman""><br>
</span><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">allan@sindelarsolar.com</span></a><span
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Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New
Roman""><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman"">NABCEP Certified PV Installation
Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive Energy, Inc<span
class="GramE">.</span></span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b></span><span
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Roman",serif; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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