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<p>I would like to suggest that interested WRENCHES form their own
"subcommittee" so that we can have an somewhat organized approach
to this issue. I do know Fronius has been working on this, and we
should seek them out. I will volunteer to help organize the
subcommittee. I have done similar work on other issues. I think
this will have to be done by email so I will set up a process if
there is interest. Chris<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/30/2021 2:40 PM, Brian Mehalic
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPKGs9Q05bvfJ=7Gm8kMpyTb8KcbFkowz61FZAr-2eLSPHyfFw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">The process is very regimented. Here's a link with
the details: <a
href="https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/Standards-Development/How-the-process-works"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/Standards-Development/How-the-process-works</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A few things to note:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All submitted public inputs (PIs) are addressed by the
relevant Code Making Panel (CMP); the NFPA has transitioned so
that all this documentation is online (there used to be a PDF)
- it can be viewed on the "Next Edition" tab of NFPA 70 here: <a
href="https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The first draft of 2023, based on all the PIs submitted,
came out on 6/28/21; comments on that document were due about
12 days ago, and the second draft meeting is scheduled for
late October. The product of that meeting, which will post in
March 2022, will be, for the most part, the 2023 NEC.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sooo, it is going to be tough to "repeal" or get rid of RS
based on the current state of things. There is the NITMAM
process (ugh, so many acronyms), which you can read about
here <a href="https://www.nfpa.org/techsession"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nfpa.org/techsession</a> and
which I'm not very familiar with.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please keep in mind that CMP-4 (which I am a
voting-alternate on, and which has jurisdiction over 690, 705,
710, and a few other Articles) is composed of a wide range of
folks, from the enforcement (AHJ) community, the IBEW, various
manufacturing trade organizations, utility organizations, the
fire fighting/first responder community, and solar-specific
organizations. Folks have widely varying degrees of interest
in \u2013 and experience with \u2013 PV, but they all bring technical
expertise from across the electrical industry. You may be
surprised to hear it, but requirements in regards to RS could
have been a lot more stringent, a lot more quickly, without
key representation from the panel members that are most
dedicated to the solar industry. Furthermore this is a
consensus process, and is often the case rarely does anyone
get exactly what they want.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Many of these same folks have been very active participants
in the PV Industry Forum, sponsored by SEIA, and comprised of
something like 60-80 industry stakeholders that work together
to craft and submit consensus Public Inputs for the first
draft. In this latest cycle we submitted dozens of PIs, and
the vast majority of them were accepted and became part of the
first draft. This process is key to jump-starting the new Code
cycle - without a Public Input to address, the code-making
panel cannot "touch" a section of the code. And of course
there are plenty of PIs from individuals and other
organizations that are addressed by the panel.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian Mehalic <br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation
Professional\u2122 R031508-59</div>
<div>National Electrical Code® CMP-4
Member</div>
<div>(520) 204-6639<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Solar Energy International<br>
<a
href="http://www.solarenergy.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.solarenergy.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SEI Professional Services</div>
<div><a
href="http://www.seisolarpros.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">http://www.s</span>eisolarpros.com</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 5:28
AM Christopher Warfel <<a
href="mailto:cwarfel@entech-engineering.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">cwarfel@entech-engineering.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Brian, I think you serve on a CMP. (if not, anyone with
knowledge on the process would be helpful.) What is the
process for receiving and acknowledging input from non CMP
members? Every time I submitted comment, I received no
response (as far as I can remember). Thank you, Chris<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/28/2021 11:09 AM, Brian Mehalic wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Movement? Maybe, but as far as I
can tell it\u2019s just a forum to complain as I see no
activity that could actually impact the NEC® via the
clearly defined and delineated process. Also there are a
few flat-out false claims on the site, along with a call
to action to fix module level shutdown by\u2026having module
level shutdown in the junction box? Most of the complaints
seem to come down to connector standardization (which
obviously was not the issue with the APS meltdown that
started this thread).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian<br>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Aug 28, 2021, at 7:07 AM, <a
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff
<p>There is a movement to do away with module level
shutdown. </p>
<p><a
href="https://www.fixmlsd.com/?utm_campaign=solarbuilder_comment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=fixmlsd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.fixmlsd.com/?utm_campaign=solarbuilder_comment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=fixmlsd</a></p>
<p>FixMLSD has convincing arguments that MLSD is
less safe than safe than an arc fault protective
device with a standard string configuration. Given
the many problems with MLSD devices, it seems
likely that this is true.</p>
<p>Drake</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Drake Chamberlin</p>
<p>Athens Electric LLC</p>
<p>Ohio Electrical Contractor\u2019s License 44810</p>
<p>CO Master Electrician\u2019s License 4526</p>
<p>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="gmail-m_3828551589625418623signature">---<br>
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"> </div>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p id="gmail-m_3828551589625418623reply-intro">On
2021-08-27 09:02, Tump wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid
rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div id="gmail-m_3828551589625418623replybody1">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">I would
once again say that; we as an industry can
influence not only the writing of the code but
with what we are <em>buying</em> OR <em>not
buying.</em>
<div>If the devices we are required to install
to make things "more safe & reliable",
at the cost of our livelihoods &
reputations, we all need to make the folks
that are building the RSD crap and those who
require installation of questionably safe
& reliable crap aware of these problems.</div>
<div>WE can thru either going to the code
development meetings AND NOT buying or
installing this stuff. Not too easy when a
huge amount of solar is rooftop installs. As
many of the installers in the NE know its
not a single level ranch were installing
this stuff on, short season & man lift
required.</div>
<div>Tell your supplier why you are not buying
that brand, let your supplier & folks
on the list what manufacture has good
reliable products AND tech support that we
can understand, who we can get in a timely
fashion, and get the satisfaction of a
prompt replacement. IF we don't sell it
they won't have a job or a market.</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid
rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div>On Aug 26, 2021, at 2:09 PM, Jeremy
Coxon <<a
href="mailto:jcoxon@sunwindpowerinc.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jcoxon@sunwindpowerinc.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="overflow-wrap:
break-word;">Carl,
<div> </div>
<div>Did you get any kind of joy out
of APSmart on that failure? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I will say that their tech
support guy did at least try to be
helpful, but the language barrier
was really really steep and their
distribution channels are less
than ideal. Their response to a
request for compensation was that
they would not be profitable if
they had to pay for truck rolls
for such a low cost item. I
really don't think they GET IT.
We've been in business for over
16yrs and this one failure could
easily have ended that run.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I cannot imagine we're alone
here. I was told by AP that their
failure rate was 0.2%. Now, I come
from a reliability engineering
background in petro chemical/ big
pharma where a 0.2% failure rate
would be catastrophic. Can you
imagine that 2 out of every 1000
pills made could cause death? We
engineered secondary systems and
multiple quality checks to contain
catastrophic consequences for
components that had know failure
rates higher than acceptable
values. A simple solution to this
fire initiation issue would be a
metal enclosure instead of plastic
casing. That still doesn't really
solve the problem of extra
connections though.<br>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br>
Best Regards,<br>
Jeremy Coxon NABCEP #
091308-21</div>
</div>
</div>
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