<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>People need to contact me off list, and I will set up a process.
I am going to follow Brian's information as it is a great road map
for this to be effective. I would like to budget one week from
today for interested parties to contact me so we can get this
going. Chris<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/31/2021 10:08 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a4ba34af4a6411b6a6fb593c0104cfbc@redwoodalliance.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>That is a great offer. For the sake of our industry I hope it
succeeds. What is the next step? Please keep us in the loop. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Drake Chamberlin</p>
<p>Athens Electric LLC</p>
<p>Ohio Electrical Contractor\u2019s License 44810</p>
<p>CO Master Electrician\u2019s License 4526</p>
<p>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="signature">---</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em; border-left:
#1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div id="replybody1">
<div>
<p>I would like to suggest that interested WRENCHES form
their own "subcommittee" so that we can have an somewhat
organized approach to this issue. I do know Fronius has
been working on this, and we should seek them out. I will
volunteer to help organize the subcommittee. I have done
similar work on other issues. I think this will have to
be done by email so I will set up a process if there is
interest. Chris</p>
<div class="v1moz-cite-prefix">On 8/30/2021 2:40 PM, Brian
Mehalic wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em;
border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div dir="ltr">The process is very regimented. Here's a
link with the details: <a
href="https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/Standards-Development/How-the-process-works"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/Standards-Development/How-the-process-works</a>
<div> </div>
<div>A few things to note:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All submitted public inputs (PIs) are addressed by
the relevant Code Making Panel (CMP); the NFPA has
transitioned so that all this documentation is online
(there used to be a PDF) - it can be viewed on the
"Next Edition" tab of NFPA 70 here: <a
href="https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>The first draft of 2023, based on all the PIs
submitted, came out on 6/28/21; comments on that
document were due about 12 days ago, and the second
draft meeting is scheduled for late October. The
product of that meeting, which will post in March
2022, will be, for the most part, the 2023 NEC.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sooo, it is going to be tough to "repeal" or get
rid of RS based on the current state of things. There
is the NITMAM process (ugh, so many acronyms), which
you can read about here <a
href="https://www.nfpa.org/techsession"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.nfpa.org/techsession</a> and
which I'm not very familiar with.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please keep in mind that CMP-4 (which I am a
voting-alternate on, and which has jurisdiction over
690, 705, 710, and a few other Articles) is composed
of a wide range of folks, from the enforcement (AHJ)
community, the IBEW, various manufacturing trade
organizations, utility organizations, the fire
fighting/first responder community, and solar-specific
organizations. Folks have widely varying degrees of
interest in \u2013 and experience with \u2013 PV, but they all
bring technical expertise from across the electrical
industry. You may be surprised to hear it, but
requirements in regards to RS could have been a lot
more stringent, a lot more quickly, without key
representation from the panel members that are most
dedicated to the solar industry. Furthermore this is a
consensus process, and is often the case rarely does
anyone get exactly what they want.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Many of these same folks have been very active
participants in the PV Industry Forum, sponsored by
SEIA, and comprised of something like 60-80 industry
stakeholders that work together to craft and submit
consensus Public Inputs for the first draft. In this
latest cycle we submitted dozens of PIs, and the vast
majority of them were accepted and became part of the
first draft. This process is key to jump-starting the
new Code cycle - without a Public Input to address,
the code-making panel cannot "touch" a section of the
code. And of course there are plenty of PIs from
individuals and other organizations that are addressed
by the panel.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="v1gmail_signature" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div> </div>
<div>Brian Mehalic <br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
Installation
Professional\u2122 R031508-59</div>
<div>National Electrical Code®
CMP-4 Member</div>
<div>(520) 204-6639<br>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Solar Energy
International<br>
<a
href="http://www.solarenergy.org"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener
noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.solarenergy.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>SEI Professional Services</div>
<div><a
href="http://www.seisolarpros.com"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size: 12.8px;">http://www.s</span>eisolarpros.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="v1gmail_quote">
<div class="v1gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 29, 2021
at 5:28 AM Christopher Warfel <<a
href="mailto:cwarfel@entech-engineering.com"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">cwarfel@entech-engineering.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px
0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc;
padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<p>Brian, I think you serve on a CMP. (if not,
anyone with knowledge on the process would be
helpful.) What is the process for receiving and
acknowledging input from non CMP members? Every
time I submitted comment, I received no response
(as far as I can remember). Thank you, Chris</p>
<div>On 8/28/2021 11:09 AM, Brian Mehalic wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em;
border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">Movement?
Maybe, but as far as I can tell it's just a forum
to complain as I see no activity that could
actually impact the NEC® via the clearly defined
and delineated process. Also there are a few
flat-out false claims on the site, along with a
call to action to fix module level shutdown
by...having module level shutdown in the junction
box? Most of the complaints seem to come down to
connector standardization (which obviously was not
the issue with the APS meltdown that started this
thread).
<div> </div>
<div>Brian<br>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0
0.4em; border-left: #1010ff 2px solid;
margin: 0">On Aug 28, 2021, at 7:07 AM, <a
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding: 0 0.4em;
border-left: #1010ff 2px solid; margin: 0">
<div dir="ltr">
<p>There is a movement to do away with
module level shutdown.</p>
<p><a
href="https://www.fixmlsd.com/?utm_campaign=solarbuilder_comment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=fixmlsd"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.fixmlsd.com/?utm_campaign=solarbuilder_comment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=fixmlsd</a></p>
<p>FixMLSD has convincing arguments that
MLSD is less safe than safe than an arc
fault protective device with a standard
string configuration. Given the many
problems with MLSD devices, it seems
likely that this is true.</p>
<p>Drake</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Drake Chamberlin</p>
<p>Athens Electric LLC</p>
<p>Ohio Electrical Contractor's License
44810</p>
<p>CO Master Electrician's License 4526</p>
<p>NABCEP Certified PV Installation
Professional</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div
id="v1gmail-m_3828551589625418623signature">---<br>
<div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;
font-family: monospace;"> </div>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p
id="v1gmail-m_3828551589625418623reply-intro">On
2021-08-27 09:02, Tump wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="padding: 0px 0.4em;
border-left: 2px solid #1010ff; margin:
0px;">
<div
id="v1gmail-m_3828551589625418623replybody1">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">I
would once again say that; we as an
industry can influence not only the
writing of the code but with what we
are <em>buying</em> OR <em>not
buying.</em>
<div>If the devices we are required to
install to make things "more safe
& reliable", at the cost of our
livelihoods & reputations, we
all need to make the folks that are
building the RSD crap and those who
require installation of questionably
safe & reliable crap aware of
these problems.</div>
<div>WE can thru either going to the
code development meetings AND NOT
buying or installing this stuff. Not
too easy when a huge amount of solar
is rooftop installs. As many of the
installers in the NE know its not a
single level ranch were installing
this stuff on, short season &
man lift required.</div>
<div>Tell your supplier why you are
not buying that brand, let your
supplier & folks on the list
what manufacture has good reliable
products AND tech support that we
can understand, who we can get in a
timely fashion, and get the
satisfaction of a prompt
replacement. IF we don't sell it
they won't have a job or a market.</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="padding: 0px
0.4em; border-left: 2px solid
#1010ff; margin: 0px;">
<div>On Aug 26, 2021, at 2:09
PM, Jeremy Coxon <<a
href="mailto:jcoxon@sunwindpowerinc.com"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">jcoxon@sunwindpowerinc.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="overflow-wrap:
break-word;">Carl,
<div> </div>
<div>Did you get any kind of
joy out of APSmart on that
failure? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I will say that their
tech support guy did at
least try to be helpful,
but the language barrier
was really really steep
and their distribution
channels are less than
ideal. Their response to
a request for compensation
was that they would not be
profitable if they had to
pay for truck rolls for
such a low cost item. I
really don't think they
GET IT. We've been in
business for over 16yrs
and this one failure could
easily have ended that
run.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I cannot imagine we're
alone here. I was told by
AP that their failure rate
was 0.2%. Now, I come from
a reliability engineering
background in petro
chemical/ big pharma where
a 0.2% failure rate would
be catastrophic. Can you
imagine that 2 out of
every 1000 pills made
could cause death? We
engineered secondary
systems and multiple
quality checks to contain
catastrophic consequences
for components that had
know failure rates higher
than acceptable values. A
simple solution to this
fire initiation issue
would be a metal enclosure
instead of plastic casing.
That still doesn't really
solve the problem of extra
connections though.<br>
<div>
<div style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style:
normal;
font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight:
normal;
letter-spacing:
normal; text-align:
start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform:
none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing:
0px; text-decoration:
none;"><br>
Best Regards,<br>
Jeremy Coxon NABCEP #
091308-21</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood
Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here:
<a
href="http://re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email
address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives
for searching. When one
doesn't work, try the other:<br>
<a
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update
participant bios:<br>
<a
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Pay optional member dues here: <a
href="http://re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Change listserver email address &
settings:</span><br>
<span><a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>There are two list archives for
searching. When one doesn't work, try the
other:</span><br>
<span><a
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a></span><br>
<span><a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br>
<span><a
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br>
<span><a
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br>
<span></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-family:
PMingLiU-ExtB;">
Christopher Warfel</span><br>
<span style="font-family:
PMingLiU-ExtB;">
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:
PMingLiU-ExtB;">PO Box 871, Block
Island, RI 02807</span><br>
<span style="font-family:
PMingLiU-ExtB;">
401-466-8978</span><br>
<span style="font-family:
PMingLiU-ExtB;"><a
href="http://entech-engineering.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"><img
src="cid:part31.26F59A3B.EEC0FF8C@entech-engineering.com" class=""
width="274" height="121"
border="0"></a><br>
</span><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a
href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one
doesn't work, try the other:<br>
<a
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="v1moz-signature">-- <br>
<div class="v1moz-signature">
<div class="v1moz-signature">
<div class="v1moz-signature">
<div class="v1moz-signature">
<div class="v1moz-signature"><span
style="font-family: PMingLiU-ExtB;">
Christopher
Warfel</span><br>
<span style="font-family: PMingLiU-ExtB;">
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.</span><br>
<span style="font-family: PMingLiU-ExtB;">PO Box
871, Block Island, RI 02807</span><br>
<span style="font-family: PMingLiU-ExtB;">
401-466-8978</span><br>
<span style="font-family: PMingLiU-ExtB;"><a
href="http://entech-engineering.com"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><img
src="cid:part31.26F59A3B.EEC0FF8C@entech-engineering.com"
class="" width="274" height="121"
border="0"></a><br>
</span><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family:
monospace">_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a
href="http://re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
work, try the other:<br>
<a
href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<div class="moz-signature">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<title></title>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB">
Christopher Warfel</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB"> ENTECH
Engineering, Inc.</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB">PO Box 871, Block Island, RI
02807</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB">
401-466-8978</font><br>
<font face="PMingLiU-ExtB"><a
href="http://entech-engineering.com"><img
moz-do-not-send="false"
src="cid:part31.26F59A3B.EEC0FF8C@entech-engineering.com"
alt="" width="274" height="121" border="0"></a><br>
</font><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>