<html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Hey Jay,<br>
<br>
So at the 4:35 mark of this quick review of available LFP batteries on 
the market at the time (2019) - Will Prowess states that "they (Relion) 
are the only battery that has a built-in battery heater (I think he was 
implying as standard equipment and not an option).<br>
<br>
Is it possible the battery heater circuit stuck on?<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOqQp2Xjr6U&amp;t=372s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOqQp2Xjr6U&amp;t=372s</a><br>
<br>
Just a thought - not sure how you would go back and check that out 
though!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Jeff C.<br>
Village Power Design<br>
<span>

</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite" 
cite="mid:84eff0c0269d28f1b0a925443136ca16@127.0.0.1" style="border: 0px
 none ! important;">
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvHr" 
style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;"><div 
style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid #EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">   <div
 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
        <a style="color:#485664 
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none 
!important;" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Dave
 Angelini Offgrid Solar</a></div>   <div 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
 right;">     <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">June 
17, 2021 at 5:01 PM</span></font></div>    </div></div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvBody" 
__pbrmquotes="true" 
style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><p>I 
thought of a few more ways this could have happened. The installer over 
torqued the battery terminals. There was not SPD protection in the 
system and it got zapped and escalated. Working on SPD's now for a guy. 
He does not see the value and knows everything!  Pretty hot out here in 
the West!  5PM !  Take care! Cheers!</p>
<p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p>
<p> </p>
<div>Maybe the BMS was never tested by Relion for all of the possible 
failure<br>modes? Maybe it was tested and it got thru QC. </div>
<div>I know very little about<br>this company. Do they meet the 
standards like, <br><br>manufacturing facilities<br>are fully certified 
to ISO 9001/14001 and OSHA 18001 standards. <br><br>Meets UL<br>9540 <br><br>CERTIFICATION
 STANDARDS <br><br>        * IEC 62133<br>        * UL 1973<br>        *
 UL 2271<br>        *<br>CE<br>        * UN 38.3<br><br>Not trying to be
 a pain either Jay. You know the LFP I use!<br>Good Luck!</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<br>"we
 go where powerlines don't"<br><a 
href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><br>e-mail
  <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><br>text
 209 813 0060</span></strong></div>
</div>
<p>On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:55:35 -0600, jay <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">&lt;jay.peltz@gmail.com&gt;</a> 
wrote:</p>

<br><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><div>_______________________________________________<br>List
 sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>Pay optional member dues here: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List Address: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address
 &amp; settings:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>There
 are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
other:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List
 rules &amp; etiquette:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check
 out or update participant bios:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div>

  </div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvHr" 
style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;"><div 
style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid #EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">   <div
 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
        <a style="color:#485664 
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none 
!important;" href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">jay</a></div>
   <div 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
 right;">     <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">June 
17, 2021 at 10:55 AM</span></font></div>    </div></div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvBody" 
__pbrmquotes="true" 
style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"><meta 
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">HI All,<div
 class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The cover never got all the 
way off before it was blown off, it was just started to be opened, so no
 way there was an external ignition source.  If it was an explosion it 
was all from internal components except for possibly some O2 coming from
 the outside.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My 
other question still hasn\u2019t been answered.  </div><div class="">If the 
BMS isn\u2019t taking care of over/under voltage and over current what is it 
doing to prevent damage to the battery?</div><div class="">( this system
 was within the input PV or output inverter watts/amps of the battery 
specifications) And I just found out that on the day of failure, no one 
has been living there for months and only a grundfos SQFlex and a few 
lights were on, no big loads. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div
 class="">Now maybe I\u2019ve been under the false understanding that this is
 the primary job of the BMS? </div><div class="">Yes I know that there 
is also cell balancing, % monitoring, blue tooth, wifi etc that can be 
included in the BMS but to me thats all secondary.</div><div class=""><br
 class=""></div><div class="">Hopefully someone can clear this up for 
me.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">jay</div><div 
class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div 
class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div 
class=""><div><br class=""></div><br class=""></div>
<br><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><div>_______________________________________________<br>List
 sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>Pay optional member dues here: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List Address: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address
 &amp; settings:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>There
 are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
other:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List
 rules &amp; etiquette:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check
 out or update participant bios:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div>

  </div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvHr" 
style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;"><div 
style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid #EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">   <div
 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
        <a style="color:#485664 
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none 
!important;" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Dave
 Angelini Offgrid Solar</a></div>   <div 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
 right;">     <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">June 
17, 2021 at 7:01 AM</span></font></div>    </div></div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvBody" 
__pbrmquotes="true" 
style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><p>My
 .02 on this, and just a guess, the open loop charging parameters were 
not set right or charge limits for the battery were too high. The other 
way to kill LFP is large loads exceeding the battery max discharge 
current.</p>
<p>Closing the loop eliminates just about all of those issues. It brings
 the battery into the safety area of LA batteries that are still hard to
 beat offgrid. I am not saying you can't blow the top off a LA battery 
either<img title="Wink" 
src="cid:part7.9EA6BCF3.575CE0C3@villagepowerdesign.com" alt="Wink" 
name="image.png" border="0"></p>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<br>"we
 go where powerlines don't"<br><a 
href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><br>e-mail
  <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><br>text
 209 813 0060</span></strong></div>
</div>
<p>On Thu, 17 Jun 2021 07:23:07 -0400, John Blittersdorf 
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:john.blittersdorf@gmail.com">&lt;john.blittersdorf@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:</p>

<br><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><div>_______________________________________________<br>List
 sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>Pay optional member dues here: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List Address: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address
 &amp; settings:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>There
 are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
other:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List
 rules &amp; etiquette:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check
 out or update participant bios:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div>

  </div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvHr" 
style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;"><div 
style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid #EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">   <div
 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
        <a style="color:#485664 
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none 
!important;" href="mailto:john.blittersdorf@gmail.com" 
moz-do-not-send="true">John Blittersdorf</a></div>   <div 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
 right;">     <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">June 
17, 2021 at 4:23 AM</span></font></div>    </div></div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvBody" 
__pbrmquotes="true" 
style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div 
dir="auto">This just proves the weak link is the BMS.</div><div 
dir="auto">I had the honor of replacing the BMS in that exact model in a
 stack of 3 batteries.  Luckily it was on the bottom shelf so I could 
pull the monster out onto the floor to get access to the lid.  The lid 
is sealed shut but with persistence it opened.  I was working with their
 tech support and following their instructions.  I disconnected it from 
the other two that were in a parallel configuration before opening.  
Battery voltage was zero at the terminals. I did voltage checks at 
various checkpoints to confirm it was the BMS at fault. Relion sent a 
new BMS which I carefully installed and it has worked fine since.  Had I
 seen this photo first, I may have not been so eager to see the inside 
of that battery.  </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">John 
Blittersdorf</div><div><br></div>

<br><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><div>_______________________________________________<br>List
 sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>Pay optional member dues here: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List Address: 
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address
 &amp; settings:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>There
 are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
other:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List
 rules &amp; etiquette:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check
 out or update participant bios:<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div>

  </div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvHr" 
style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;"><div 
style="width:100%;border-top:2px solid #EDF1F4;padding-top:10px;">   <div
 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:49%;">
        <a style="color:#485664 
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none 
!important;" href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">jay</a></div>
   <div 
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
 right;">     <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">June 
16, 2021 at 12:22 PM</span></font></div>    </div></div>
  <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" class="__pbConvBody" 
__pbrmquotes="true" 
style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"><meta 
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">Hi Jeff,<div
 class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don\u2019t know if you saw the 
photo.  No cutting involved.</div><div class="">The top is removed with 
roughly 14 fasteners.  </div><div class="">No tools or prying was 
involved in the removal of the top cover.</div><div class=""><br 
class=""></div><div class="">jay</div><div class=""><div><br class=""></div><br
 class=""></div>


  </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body></html>