<div dir="ltr">I would certainly agree with you all that AC coupled for off-grid is not the best design choice. But just for clarification, this is a grid-tied system where there is already an Enphase M215 system and a whole house generator set up.<div>Cheers, </div><div>Dave</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 11:10 AM Jerry Shafer <<a href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">I have to agree with Dave on this, complex and off grid generally are not good together, l sugest backing up and you might consider a redesign, dump enphase, go directly in to the inverter DC side, now a gen set back up will work. Your spending more time and effort going in a bad direction. AC coupling for resi is not a great solution to start with and Solark even say that. KISS is better <div dir="auto">Jerry</div><div dir="auto">NABCEP PV Inspector </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 6, 2021, 7:33 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>I would not do any of this for an offgrid client. It is against the rule of less is more. The whole design is flawed in my opinion.</p>
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<pre><strong><span style="font-size:small">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
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text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
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<p>On Tue, 4 May 2021 19:24:13 -0400, Dave Tedeyan <<a href="mailto:dave@sungineersolar.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dave@sungineersolar.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;width:100%">
<div dir="auto">I suppose the question here is - which is the worse failure mode?
<div dir="auto">A. Solar turning off until an electrician can fix it.</div>
<div dir="auto">OR</div>
<div dir="auto">B. Not knowing the contactor failed until it does not open when the generator turns on and running the risk that the solar backfeeds the generator and breaks it.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">For off-grid maybe A would be more of a concern. But for grid tied, I would think option B would be worse.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Does anyone have a fail safe method of doing this?</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Cheers,</div>
<div dir="auto">Dave</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, May 4, 2021, 4:41 PM Chris Schaefer <<a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Jason,
<div> </div>
<div>A valid concern which is why I always wire them as powered open so if there is a failure it would transition closed or not open.</div>
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<div>Christopher</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 4:15 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div>What happens when the contactor fails? I don't trust a NC contactor that is supposed to open on 240Vac coil voltage from the generator. It's not a failsafe solution.
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Jason</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, May 4, 2021, 3:15 PM Drake <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>P.S. The contactor method is even mentioned somewhere in the Outback literature. I've been using it for years. It is very simple and requires no complex equipment. It will not interfere with rapid shutdown. 40 A, 240 V contactors with 240 V coils are readily available and not terribly expensive. The 240 V output of the generator circuit provides the signal. <br><br> At 10:02 AM 5/4/2021, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;width:100%">Get a contactor with a 240 VAC coil. Connect the coil wire wires to the 240 V output circuit of the generator, so when the generator comes on, the contactor opens. Run the current from the AC coupled Enphase inverters through the contacts from common to N/C. <br> <br> ---<br> <br><br> <br> On 2021-05-03 10:26, Dave Tedeyan wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;width:100%">Hi All, <br><br> I am planning on using a Sol-Ark for the first time for adding battery backup to an existing system. It is Enphase, so clearly it will be AC coupled, and there is a whole house generator. When I talked to Sol-Ark about it, they recommended putting the generator on a time of use schedule to not allow it to come on during the day so that we don't run into the issue of the solar backfeeding the generator.<br> <br> I was wondering though if anyone has just used a contactor to cut out the solar when the generator turns on? Something like Outback's GS-AC-Gen-Kit, although in this case I will need something rated for just over 30A. This seems like a better way to allow the generator to run at any time it is needed, especially if it is a gloomy, snowy, winter day.<br> <br> Cheers, <br> Dave<br> <br> -- <br> <strong>Dave Tedeyan, PE<br> </strong> <img alt="Sungineer Solar" width="200" height="50"> <br> 1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850<br> Cell: 607-288-2898<br> <a href="http://www.sungineersolar.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.sungineersolar.com</a><br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br><br> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br> Change listserver email address & settings:<br> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a> <br><br> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br> <br> List rules & etiquette:<br> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br> Check out or update participant bios:<br> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></blockquote>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><b>Dave Tedeyan, PE</b></div><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><img src="http://sungineersolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Sungineer-Logo-1.png" alt="Sungineer Solar" width="200" height="50"><b><br></b><div>1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850</div><div>Cell: 607-288-2898</div><div><a href="http://www.sungineersolar.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">www.sungineersolar.com</a></div></div></div></div>