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</head><body style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: rgb(0,
0, 0);" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Dave A. - Sol-Arks'<span
style="font-weight: bold;"> "GEN"
breaker</span> can be used for 1 of 3 operations only - <span
style="font-weight: bold;">Generator, AC Coupling
OR Smart Load</span> (Load Shedding) So when you are grid-interactive
(which
takes up your GRID breaker) and you have PV and a Generator - the way to
go is to have no AC Coupling - put the Grid and Gen where they belong
and <span style="font-weight: bold;">enjoy the high efficiency and smart
control of DC Coupling, Time of Use control (for the Genny,the Grid
and the Batteries)</span> - all in the mid to high 90's efficiency that
the Sol-Ark provides.<br>
<br>
I know <span style="font-weight: bold;">Dave T</span> that you already
have an installed Enphase system that probably needs to be Rapid
Shutdown compliant as well AND that you have a whole house genny -
however - I still would take a strong look at the economic tradeoffs of
rewiring the array to DC - (could install Tigo RS) - and splitting the
whole house Gen output to the Sol-Ark and probably existing Transfer
switch. We are just saying - now you are utilizing your equipment to
the max! May not be economically feasible labor and additional hardware
wise in this situation. But I surely would do the math and look at
that tradeoff seriously - perhaps give that option to your customer to
make the economic decision - would result in long term happy customer
and most energy utilized with least fuel costs.<br>
<br>
I'll let that case rest! Gees! all you asked for was some relay
advice! See what you get with this List!? too much expertise! :)<br>
<br>
Have fun,<br>
<br>
Jeff C.<br>
Village Power Design<br>
<br>
<br>
<span>
</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:0efcaafb18792c8ea243c046c21737a5@127.0.0.1" style="border: 0px
none ! important;"><div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
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<a style="color:#485664
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:500;text-decoration:none
!important;" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Dave
Angelini Offgrid Solar</a></div> <div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">May
7, 2021 at 3:25 PM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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__pbrmquotes="true"
style="color:#909AA4;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><p>I
do not know much about Sol-Arc, but one can AC couple and DC couple with
a Radian or XW. The genset is on the genset input where it belongs.</p>
<p>For Offgrid AC coupling is just another way to damage a battery or
genset that does not need to be there. I suppose in a really large
microgrid with many houses and a skilled person on site, it could be
used as a second best method to DC coupling everything.</p>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<br>"we
go where powerlines don't"<br><a
href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><br>e-mail
<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><br>text
209 813 0060</span></strong></div>
</div>
<p>On Fri, 7 May 2021 12:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"><jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com></a>
wrote:</p>
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style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">May
7, 2021 at 9:21 AM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="auto">I like the idea of some small amount of AC Coupled PV for
off-grid systems when there is a known consistent daytime load. Around
here the worst case scenario involves afternoon air conditioning in
summer, so some WSW-facing AC coupled PV is an efficient way to cover
that load and go into darkness with full batteries. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">If I understand things correctly, with a Sol-Ark you can
simultaneously do AC coupling on the GEN input and DC coupling on the
MPPTs and use the GRID input for the generator. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">Jason</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">Dave Tedeyan</a></div> <div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">May
7, 2021 at 8:41 AM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="ltr">I would certainly agree with you all that AC coupled for
off-grid is not the best design choice. But just for clarification, this
is a grid-tied system where there is already an Enphase M215 system and
a whole house generator set up.<div>Cheers, </div><div>Dave</div></div><br><br
clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><b>Dave Tedeyan, PE</b></div><div
dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><img
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moz-do-not-send="true">Jerry Shafer</a></div> <div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">May
7, 2021 at 8:10 AM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="auto">I have to agree with Dave on this, complex and off grid
generally are not good together, l sugest backing up and you might
consider a redesign, dump enphase, go directly in to the inverter DC
side, now a gen set back up will work. Your spending more time and
effort going in a bad direction. AC coupling for resi is not a great
solution to start with and Solark even say that. KISS is better <div
dir="auto">Jerry</div><div dir="auto">NABCEP PV Inspector </div></div><br>
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Angelini Offgrid Solar</a></div> <div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">May
6, 2021 at 7:33 AM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><p>I
would not do any of this for an offgrid client. It is against the rule
of less is more. The whole design is flawed in my opinion.</p>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<br>"we
go where powerlines don't"<br><a
href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><br>e-mail
<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><br>text
209 813 0060</span></strong></div>
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<p>On Tue, 4 May 2021 19:24:13 -0400, Dave Tedeyan
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave@sungineersolar.com"><dave@sungineersolar.com></a>
wrote:</p>
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moz-do-not-send="true">Dave Tedeyan</a></div> <div
style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">May
4, 2021 at 4:24 PM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="auto">I suppose the question here is - which is the worse failure
mode? <div dir="auto">A. Solar turning off until an electrician can fix
it.</div><div dir="auto">OR</div><div dir="auto">B. Not knowing the
contactor failed until it does not open when the generator turns on and
running the risk that the solar backfeeds the generator and breaks it.</div><div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For off-grid maybe A would be more
of a concern. But for grid tied, I would think option B would be worse.</div><div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Does anyone have a fail safe
method of doing this?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers,</div><div
dir="auto">Dave</div></div><br>
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style="display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:48%;text-align:
right;"> <font color="#909AA4"><span style="padding-left:6px">May
4, 2021 at 1:41 PM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="ltr">Jason,<div><br></div><div>A valid concern which is why I
always wire them as powered open so if there is a failure it would
transition closed or not open.</div><div><br></div><div>Christopher</div></div><br><br
clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="auto"><div>What happens when the contactor fails? I don't trust a
NC contactor that is supposed to open on 240Vac coil voltage from the
generator. It's not a failsafe solution. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">Jason</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><br><br></div></div>
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4, 2021 at 12:08 PM</span></font></div> </div></div>
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P.S. The contactor method is even mentioned somewhere in the Outback
literature. I've been using it for years. It is very simple and requires
no complex equipment. It will not interfere with rapid shutdown. 40 A,
240 V contactors with 240 V coils are readily available and not terribly
expensive. The 240 V output of the generator circuit provides the
signal.
<br><br>
At 10:02 AM 5/4/2021, you wrote:<br>
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<div id="signature">Get a contactor with a 240 VAC coil. Connect the
coil wire wires to the 240 V output circuit of the generator, so when
the generator comes on, the contactor opens. Run the current from the AC
coupled Enphase inverters through the contacts from common to N/C. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>---<br>
<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace"> </div>
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<p><br></p>
<p id="reply-intro">On 2021-05-03 10:26, Dave Tedeyan wrote:</p>
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<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div
dir="ltr">Hi All, <div><br><div>I am planning on using a Sol-Ark for the
first time for adding battery backup to an existing system. It is
Enphase, so clearly it will be AC coupled, and there is a whole house
generator. When I talked to Sol-Ark about it, they recommended putting
the generator on a time of use schedule to not allow it to come on
during the day so that we don't run into the issue of the solar
backfeeding the generator.</div><div><br></div><div>I was wondering
though if anyone has just used a contactor to cut out the solar when the
generator turns on? Something like Outback's GS-AC-Gen-Kit, although in
this case I will need something rated for just over 30A. This seems
like a better way to allow the generator to run at any time it is
needed, especially if it is a gloomy, snowy, winter day.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers, </div><div>Dave<br><div><br></div>--
<br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><b>Dave Tedeyan, PE</b></div><div
dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><img
src="http://sungineersolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Sungineer-Logo-1.png"
alt="Sungineer Solar" moz-do-not-send="true" width="200" height="50"><b><br></b><div>1653
Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850</div><div>Cell: 607-288-2898</div><div><a
href="http://www.sungineersolar.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.sungineersolar.com</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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