<p>I would not do any of this for an offgrid client. It is against the rule of less is more. The whole design is flawed in my opinion.</p>
<div>
<pre> </pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
</div>
<p>On Tue, 4 May 2021 19:24:13 -0400, Dave Tedeyan <dave@sungineersolar.com> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ignored -->
<div dir="auto">I suppose the question here is - which is the worse failure mode?
<div dir="auto">A. Solar turning off until an electrician can fix it.</div>
<div dir="auto">OR</div>
<div dir="auto">B. Not knowing the contactor failed until it does not open when the generator turns on and running the risk that the solar backfeeds the generator and breaks it.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">For off-grid maybe A would be more of a concern. But for grid tied, I would think option B would be worse.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Does anyone have a fail safe method of doing this?</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Cheers,</div>
<div dir="auto">Dave</div>
</div>
<br />
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, May 4, 2021, 4:41 PM Chris Schaefer <<a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">Jason,
<div> </div>
<div>A valid concern which is why I always wire them as powered open so if there is a failure it would transition closed or not open.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Christopher</div>
</div>
<br />
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 4:15 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="auto">
<div>What happens when the contactor fails? I don't trust a NC contactor that is supposed to open on 240Vac coil voltage from the generator. It's not a failsafe solution.
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div dir="auto">Jason</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<br /><br />
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, May 4, 2021, 3:15 PM Drake <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>P.S. The contactor method is even mentioned somewhere in the Outback literature. I've been using it for years. It is very simple and requires no complex equipment. It will not interfere with rapid shutdown. 40 A, 240 V contactors with 240 V coils are readily available and not terribly expensive. The 240 V output of the generator circuit provides the signal. <br /><br /> At 10:02 AM 5/4/2021, you wrote:<br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Get a contactor with a 240 VAC coil. Connect the coil wire wires to the 240 V output circuit of the generator, so when the generator comes on, the contactor opens. Run the current from the AC coupled Enphase inverters through the contacts from common to N/C. <br /> <br /> ---<br /> <br /><br /> <br /> On 2021-05-03 10:26, Dave Tedeyan wrote:<br />
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">Hi All, <br /><br /> I am planning on using a Sol-Ark for the first time for adding battery backup to an existing system. It is Enphase, so clearly it will be AC coupled, and there is a whole house generator. When I talked to Sol-Ark about it, they recommended putting the generator on a time of use schedule to not allow it to come on during the day so that we don't run into the issue of the solar backfeeding the generator.<br /> <br /> I was wondering though if anyone has just used a contactor to cut out the solar when the generator turns on? Something like Outback's GS-AC-Gen-Kit, although in this case I will need something rated for just over 30A. This seems like a better way to allow the generator to run at any time it is needed, especially if it is a gloomy, snowy, winter day.<br /> <br /> Cheers, <br /> Dave<br /> <br /> -- <br /> <strong>Dave Tedeyan, PE<br /> </strong> <img alt="Sungineer Solar" width="200" height="50" /> <br /> 1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850<br /> Cell: 607-288-2898<br /> <a href="http://www.sungineersolar.com/">www.sungineersolar.com</a><br /> <br /> _______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /><br /> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br /><br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /><br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a> <br /><br /> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br /> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /><br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></blockquote>
<br /><br /> _______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /><br /> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org/"> http://re-wrenches.org</a><br /><br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /><br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a> <br /><br /> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br /> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/"> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /><br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/"> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br /> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> </blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br /> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> </blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all" />
<div> </div>
-- <br />
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Chris Schaefer's<br /></span></span><a style="font-size: 12.8px;" href="http:www.solarandwindfx.com"><img style="color: #1f497d; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" src="cid:d9be3e9a6f8541dbf44e8b8f425f3199@sti.net" alt="" width="200" height="40" /></a><br /><em><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span style="font-size: 12px;"><br /></span></span></em><em style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br /></span></span></span></em><em style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com"><span style="color: blue;">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a> ~ E-mail: <span style="color: blue;"><a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></em></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><em><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><img src="cid:d9be3e9a6f8541dbf44e8b8f425f3199@sti.net" alt="" width="200" height="56" /><br /></span></em></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: black;">Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br /> <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> </blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>