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<p>114F was just the temperature where the derate in the NEC goes
below the continuous amps rating. I had no idea what the
temperatures actually were. Normally I do just as you did, and
figure ambient temperature based on AHSRAE. However another read
of that part of the code seems to indicate it would be the highest
air temperature the conductor would be exposed to. So the section
of wiring in the attic at 140 F should be designed for that.
There is an exemption if its less than 10% of the total circuit,
though. <br>
</p>
<p>This is yet another thing I haven't been really paying enough
attention to, but now that someone else is having issues, its
probably time to include even more strenuous temperature
derating. How, for instance, would we calculate the temperature
inside that disconnect box when its in the sun? and it would
depend on the color.....<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/19/20 8:48 AM, Jason Szumlanski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE438R_qttfegTO_T17K_J_6TJn40nj43sNBUExe0=UxjwjtVw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">All good
info.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I plan to
take my FLIR One out next time. I can paint it white in both
cases I suppose. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">As for the
temps, the high ambient here is 93ºF per ASHRAE. Inside
attics, we can see temps exceeding 140ºF here. We don't
derate conductors for that. I'm not sure where 114ºF comes
from, but I get the point. The interior of the enclosure can
certainly get blazing hot. This definitely seems to be a
heat-related issue whether the NEC intent has been met or
not. Upping the tap conductors to #4 or larger would not be
difficult or expensive to accomplish. I will likely make
that our new standard for 50A and 60A calculated circuits
for supply-side interconnections made outdoors.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 8:13
PM Ray <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>What is the brand and model of the disconnect? Temp
ratings of the terminals? I've definitely had fuse
holders not make good contact with the fuses and burn
the fuses at one end, instead of in the middle. Have
you looked at it with a Thermal imaging camera when its
operating to see if its hot on one end of the fuse? <br>
</p>
<p>Second, depending on the temperature it would be
hitting inside the enclosure in the sun, you could be
exceeding the rating of the #6 conductor. Assuming
terminals rated at 75C, then from 310.16, a #6 is rated
65 A, but derate for temperature of 114F inside the
enclosure gets you to .82 x 65 = 53.3, which is a bit
less than the 54.45 that Dave just calculated for
continuous duty. <br>
</p>
<p>What color is the disconnect painted? any chance of
painting it white?<br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div>On 11/18/20 4:16 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Jason,
<div>Bright sunny days, disconnect on the west side of
house, maybe in the sun? 43.56A * 1.25 for
continuous duty = 54.45A. If these disconnects are
also baking in the sun, maybe the extra ambient heat
is enough to push it over the edge? Just a thought.</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Dave<br clear="all">
<div>
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<div><b><font
face="tahoma,
sans-serif">Dave
Tedeyan, PE</font></b></div>
<div><font
face="tahoma,
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Engineer | Taitem
Engineering, PC</font></div>
<div><font
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<div><br>
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<div><span
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">Solar </span><span
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">\u2022</span><span
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style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px"><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px">Certified
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 18, 2020
at 3:41 PM Jay <<a
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Jason</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Any chance for some photos?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Nov 18, 2020, at
12:18 PM, Jason Szumlanski <<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The
plot thickens on the fuse blowing issue.
Again, we tore the Enphase IQ system
apart looking for any reason for the
fuse to keep blowing. We reconfirmed
torque on all line side conductors to
the service (supply side interconnection
using Polaris taps).</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Low
and behold, I get a second client with
the exact same issue yesterday. The
circumstances are eerily alike. Both
disconnects are located on the west side
of the house and have 36 IQ7+
microinverters on an IQ
Combiner, requiring 60A fuses on the 60A
fusible disconnect. The combined
inverter output rating is 43.56A. The
interconnections are identical with #6
THHN 90ºC conductors and Polaris taps.
Both disconnects have conductors on the
right-hand side line-side terminal that
are discolored (the copper is silvery,
the insulation is not burned). The fuses
blow at peak current around 1:30 pm,
only on bright and sunny days.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm
starting to suspect a faulty fusible
disconnect switch. Maybe the blades are
not making proper contact with the line
side terminals.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">For
the client who is having
regular/frequent fuses blowing I plan to
replace the disconnect with a heavy-duty
version or possibly get a 100A
disconnect with fuse reducers. I'm not
sure which option would yield a better
test. I might also switch brands.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Currently,
we are using GE TG3222R. The fuses are
Bussman FRN-R Time Delay. I have to
believe a heavy-duty switch would be
less susceptible to this, but maybe a
higher rated one would be a better
option. I'm not a fan of fuse reducers,
however. </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason
Szumlanski</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Florida
Solar Design Group</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun,
Aug 30, 2020 at 5:54 PM Jason Szumlanski
<<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The
tripping breaker occurred at
random times, even at night. No
weather-related correlation.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
have more research to do to see
when this fuse issue is
happening, but previous visits
showed no water ingress. I'm not
sure about temperature.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><b>
<div
style="text-align:center"><br>
</div>
</b></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 8:51 PM Jay
<<a
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Jason</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">One thought I
have about the blowing fuse is
to check it with a IR tool. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I suspect a poor
connection of the fuse to
holder which during higher air
temp is causing it to fail. </div>
<div dir="ltr">I\u2019m assuming that
the correct amp size and slow
blow fuse Is installed and
that the wire connections are
done correctly. But again an
IR tool during peak heat would
be a good test. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">About the enphase
fix, wow what a head
scratcher. But given that it\u2019s
fixed it means that it\u2019s not a
short, but enough amps going
through over enough time to
trip it. I wonder if a
magnetic hydraulic vs thermal
breaker ( CBI vs CH etc)
would have worked?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Is that breaker
box ever in the sun? Is there
any Correlation between high
ambient temperatures and
tripping? </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">It sure would
keep me up at night too </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Aug
27, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Jason
Szumlanski <<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff
<div dir="auto">
<div>So the resolution to
this is in... But I
still have no idea what
was wrong. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The string
of 10 offending
microinverters was split
into 5 and 5. We had a
spare breaker in the IQ
Combiner so it was
relatively easy to run
another branch circuit.
It has been over two
months with no
recurrence. So the issue
seems to be resolved,
but again, no idea why.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So here we
go again... On another
system we have a similar
problem now. In this
case it is supply side
interconnected with a
fusible disconnect. The
same fuse (same line)
keeps blowing every few
to several weeks. We
can't find any home run
wiring issues or issues
with terminator caps.
There are no apparent
faults in the AC
Combiner. We have no
idea why this is
happening. But in this
system, just the fuse
blows, not one of the
individual branch
circuit breakers. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is
getting very
frustrating. And this is
way more serious because
fuses and service calls
are expensive and I
can't isolate the issue
to one branch circuit. I
don't even know where to
start. Leaving each
circuit disconnected for
several weeks to prove a
negative is an untenable
suggestion to make to a
client. But I don't see
any other good options. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Jason
Szumlanski </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"
dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On
Tue, Jun 9, 2020,
3:42 PM Jason
Szumlanski <<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Yes,
we
double-checked
that. I have
seen that
happen before
and it's one
of my early
diagnostic
steps for
something like
this.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
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<div dir="ltr">
<table
cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
</tbody>
</table>
<b>
<div
style="text-align:center"><br>
</div>
</b></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On
Tue, Jun 9,
2020 at 9:18
AM Mac Lewis
<<a
href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi
Jason,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are you
certain that
the branch
circuits
aren't
crisscrossed
somewhere,
meaning that
an L1 branch
1, isn't
connected to
an L2 branch
2? That could
explain two
different
breakers
tripping. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Good luck</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:07 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Undoubtedly,
the
termination
caps are the
second thing
we check after
the rooftop
junction box(es).
These are
prone to
installation
errors, even
when the right
parts are
used. And
given the
cost, I've
thought very
long and hard
about
abandoning
them
altogether and
terminating
strings in
small j-boxes
with
watertight
fittings. But
in this case,
there was no
evidence of
improper
installation
(we replaced
them) and it
was not
correlated to
rain events.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We
are well
equipped with
bare Q-cable
and field
wireables that
we could use
for
troubleshooting
to bypass
certain
sections, but
the
intermittent
nature of the
problem and
unpredictable
timeframe
between faults
is very
frustrating.
While this is
a
rare occurrence,
it is
definitely a
"con" to
consider when
comparing
string vs.
microinverters
that I had not
strongly
considered in
the past. I'm
intent on
getting to the
bottom of this
in order to
learn what to
look for in
the future and
how to
approach
diagnoses of
Enphase
branch circuit faults.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
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cellspacing="0"
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<tbody>
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style="text-align:center"><br>
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</b></div>
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</div>
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<br>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 2:31 PM Amos Post <<a
href="mailto:integrityenergy101@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">integrityenergy101@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>I was
just at a site
last week
where the
Enphase branch
circuit
breaker,
outside
utility
disconnect
breaker, and
feed breaker
in the main
panel all
tripped
simultaneously,
and it
happened about
1 hour before
I showed up
onsite. The
customer said
it had
happened 1
other time
last fall but
that time it
was just the 1
branch circuit
in the Enphase
combiner
panel.
Interestingly
the customer
mentioned that
he had just
washed off the
panels, also
about 1 hour
before I got
there. I went
on the roof
and found that
the installing
contractor had
not put on the
Enphase
termination
caps. 1
string was
wire-nutted
with regular
wire nuts and
sitting on the
roof, and the
roof was damp
right there.
This was a
fairly flat
roof. The
other micro
trunk cable
was just cut
with no
protection at
all, tied to
the rail\u2026
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div> <span>
<div><IE
LOGO
150x78.jpg></div>
</span><br
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
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<blockquote
type="cite">
<div>On Jun 3,
2020, at 2:05
PM, Jason
Szumlanski
<<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The
breaker in the
main panel IS
tripping
simultaneously
with one of
the branch
circuit
breakers each
time.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><b>
<div
style="text-align:center"><br>
</div>
<div
style="text-align:center"><br>
</div>
<div
style="text-align:center"><br>
</div>
<div
style="text-align:center"><br>
</div>
</b></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:43 PM Jay <<a
href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div
dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">A
question that
keeps nagging
me is why do
these breakers
trip and not
the breaker in
the main
panel? </div>
<div dir="ltr">Presuming
there is a 40
amp in the
main</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I
would have
thought that
given all the
times the
breakers have
tripped at
some point
that one would
have tripped
and I can\u2019t
understand why
not? </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote
type="cite">On
Jun 3, 2020,
at 8:27 AM,
Jerry Shafer
<<a
href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff
<div
dir="auto">Wrenches
<div
dir="auto">Looking
g at the
bigger breaker
tripping at
the same time
is very likely
do to response
time of the
breaker
nothing more.
As l suggested
in a previous
message. Use a
non bridged
breaker to see
if it is one
or both legs
that trip.
Also an eguage
will help to
see what if
anything leads
up to the
failure and
when. </div>
<div
dir="auto">Jerry</div>
<div
dir="auto">Jerry</div>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski <<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
wonder about
that. Of
course, it
could be the
"inverter
output
circuit"
having a fault
in the wiring
still (an
intermittent
issue
somewhere
within the IQ
cable or home
run wiring).
But internal
to the
microinverter,
is it possible
that a fault
could still
occur at
night? I had a
suggestion
from another
wrench that
there are film
capacitors on
the AC output
side, but are
these isolated
when there is
no DC input?
It seems
unlikely that
this would be
an issue, but
I have seen
microinverters
reporting a
couple of
watts at night
(in
Enlighten).
I'm not sure
how real that
is.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The
overriding
question I
have is what
kind of fault
would cause
BOTH a branch
circuit and
the main solar
breaker to
trip
simultaneously?
That seems odd
to me. If any
normal load
branch circuit
has a fault,
you don't
often see
premises main
breakers
tripping, or
even feeder
circuit
breakers.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
got to
thinking that
maybe there is
some kind of
issue between
the BR220 and
CH240 breakers
not playing
nicely
together. But
I would think
this would be
a well-known
issue because
I'm sure there
are tons of CH
feeder
breakers in
the wild with
BR branch
circuits
downstream. </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM <<a
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
<p>If it trips
at night, we
know it is not
the output
from the
inverters
causing the
tripping. The
current must
be coming from
the grid.</p>
<div
id="gmail-m_-2761567396801542873gmail-m_-2069723750582363717gmail-m_-543445923422717358gmail-m_1044478832390607594m_2649556500485342876gmail-m_9219180041338812497gmail-m_-2593835731601265847gmail-m_-2056581339762963638gmail-m_-4394409340153391165m_-7145948492847024444gmail-m_-6641809747008533802signature">---<br>
<div
style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"> </div>
</div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p
id="gmail-m_-2761567396801542873gmail-m_-2069723750582363717gmail-m_-543445923422717358gmail-m_1044478832390607594m_2649556500485342876gmail-m_9219180041338812497gmail-m_-2593835731601265847gmail-m_-2056581339762963638gmail-m_-4394409340153391165m_-7145948492847024444gmail-m_-6641809747008533802reply-intro">On
2020-06-01
12:05, Jason
Szumlanski
wrote:</p>
<blockquote
type="cite"
style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div
id="gmail-m_-2761567396801542873gmail-m_-2069723750582363717gmail-m_-543445923422717358gmail-m_1044478832390607594m_2649556500485342876gmail-m_9219180041338812497gmail-m_-2593835731601265847gmail-m_-2056581339762963638gmail-m_-4394409340153391165m_-7145948492847024444gmail-m_-6641809747008533802replybody1">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">It's
not weather.
It's at all
times of the
day and night,
and I
confirmed that
there is no
correlation to
rain or high
winds. That
was my first
suspicion.</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="text-align:center"> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On
Mon, Jun 1,
2020 at 10:27
AM Ray <<a
href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Is it at
all weather
related?
Rain, or high
humidity?
High
temperatures?
Do you have
any indication
what time of
day it trips
off at?</p>
<pre>Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div>On 6/1/20
10:23 AM,
Jason
Szumlanski
wrote:</div>
<blockquote
type="cite"
style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
<div
dir="auto">Well,
that didn't
resolve it.
The main
breaker and a
branch circuit
breaker
tripped again
a few days
ago. It was
the same
branch this
time.
<div
dir="auto"> </div>
<div
dir="auto">As
my next
diagnostic
step I swapped
two circuits
(on which
breaker they
are landed).
If history is
a guide, it
will work for
about two
weeks and then
trip again.</div>
<div
dir="auto"> </div>
<div
dir="auto">I'm
dumbfounded. I
really don't
want to have
to tear this
whole system
apart. At this
point, if I
have to remove
all the
modules, I
feel that I
need to
replace all of
the trunk
cable which is
an expensive
proposition. I
really don't
know what else
to do at this
point.</div>
<div
dir="auto"> </div>
<div
dir="auto">Jason</div>
<div
dir="auto"> </div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On
Mon, May 25,
2020, 10:43 AM
Jason
Szumlanski
<<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
strongly
suspect the
CH240 combined
breaker was
compromised
(we will see).
Since it
happened that
two different
strings
tripped, I
doubt I have
two
microinverters
with internal
faults. It has
to be the
combined
breaker. I was
just surprised
that branch
circuit
breakers were
tripping
simultaneously with
the combined
output
breaker.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Of
all the supply
side connected
systems I have
installed, I
have never
seen a
combined
output fusible
disconnect
fuse blow, but
I have seen
many combined
output
breakers
tripped. I was
worried early
on that I
would be
replacing
fuses
constantly,
but that has
not been an
issue
whatsoever.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<table
cellspacing="0"
cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
rowspan="2"> </td>
<td
rowspan="2"> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div
style="text-align:center"> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On
Thu, May 21,
2020 at 11:15
AM <<a
href="mailto:scot.arey@solarcentex.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">scot.arey@solarcentex.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div
lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p>Actually,
we had a IQ7
string loaded
up to its max
panel size and
max string
length and in
the spring on
cool, clear
day, it
tripped the
string's
associated
breaker in the
Enphase
combiner.</p>
<div> <br>
</div>
<p>We reset
but of course
that breaker
was impaired
and it tripped
again. We
replaced and
never had an
issue going
forward. We
suspect the
breaker was
less than
perfect from
the start as
we've add
equally nice
days since.</p>
<div> <br>
</div>
<p>This almost
reminds me of
loading up
Outback FM80.
It says 4,000
watts but in
reality, 3,600
is the max
when amps
spike. I will
be extra
careful going
forward on IQ7
string length
when going to
the max
published...</p>
<div> <br>
</div>
<p>My story.</p>
<div> <br>
</div>
<p>Scot</p>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div
style="border-style:solid
none
none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt
0in 0in">
<p><strong>From:</strong><span> </span>RE-wrenches
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><span> </span><strong>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></strong>Jason
Szumlanski<br>
<strong>Sent:</strong><span> </span>Thursday,
May 21, 2020
8:57 AM<br>
<strong>To:</strong><span> </span>RE-wrenches
<<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong><span> </span>[RE-wrenches]
Enphase
intermittent
breaker
trippjng</p>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>
<p>I'm trying
to resolve an
intermittent
frustrating
problem with
and Enphase IQ
system. There
are three AC
Branch
circuits of 9
microinverters
each coming
into an
Enphase AC
combiner. </p>
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>What has
been happening
is one of the
BR220 branch
circuit
breakers and
the combine
CH240 breaker
in the main
backfed load
center have
been tripping
simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months.
It was always
the same
branch circuit
breaker, so we
kept
investigating
that string,
checking the
junction box,
trunk cable,
and cap, etc.
Finally we
swapped out
the BR220
breaker. </p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>Fast
forward 4
weeks, and we
got another
call. This
time a
different
branch circuit
breaker and
the main
breaker
tripped
simultaneously.
We checked
that branch
circuit and
could not find
any fault. It
seems unlikely
that two
branch circuit
breakers would
be faulty, so
we have now
switched out
the CH240 main
breaker in
hopes that it
is the
culprit. </p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>I'm not
totally
confident in
this
resolution and
I have my
fingers
crossed. If
that doesn't
work, does
anyone have
any
suggestions on
another
diagnostic
step? These
intermittent
problems are a
major hassle.
One thought I
had was to
switch to a
supply side
interconnection
with a fusible
disconnect.
Maybe the
intermittent
fault would
blow one of
the two line
fuses so at
least I could
narrow it down
to which line
the fault is
on if there is
in fact a
fault.</p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>I have
experienced
two other
tripping
breaker issues
with Enphase
systems in the
past. Neither
of them were
systems I
installed. One
turned out to
be branch
circuits that
were not
properly
paired up and
landed on
different
breakers.
Another time
we had an
inverter with
an internal
fault which
eventually"blew
up" with a
loud popping
noise and
smoke
billowing out
of it. That
happened after
resetting a
trip breaker
multiple
times. This
case seems to
be unrelated
to those
issues. I'm
perplexed. </p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p>Jason
Szumlanski</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Florida
Solar Design
Group</p>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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