<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'd look at 230.90, 230.91 and 230.94. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I don't think you can argue that the outside disconnect in this scenario is not the service disconnecting means when it is not service rated. you would have unprotected service conductors on the line and load side of the device. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I have just made it a practice to only allow service rated enclosures for all supply side interconnections. I think it is the most conservative approach. Not having enough physical space is definitely frustrating.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason Szumlanski</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:"helvetica neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif"><tbody></tbody></table><b><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 1:04 PM Dave Tedeyan <<a href="mailto:dtedeyan@taitem.com">dtedeyan@taitem.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Lloyd, <div>I see what you are saying. Although in 250.24, it seems that they are expecting this first disconnect to have overcurrent protection and be the service disconnecting means. So what if the first disconnect does not have overcurrent protection? I am assuming the "service disconnect" is the first point of overcurrent protection for the service. What I am thinking of is similar to the disconnect allowed on the line side of the meter (230.82 (3)), although this one is on the load side of the meter.</div><div>Cheers, </div><div>Dave<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><b><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Dave Tedeyan, PE</font></b></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC</font></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><img src="https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png"><br></font></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">110 South Albany Street</font><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"> | Ithaca, NY 14850</span></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">o. <u>607.277.1118 x121</u> f. 607.277.2119</font></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/bf5d06b319267be5a76641988d4606ca49838c57?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taitem.com&userId=1613865&signature=ba98d229bb3fbb14" target="_blank">www.taitem.com</a></font></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">Solar </span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">\u2022</span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:12.5pt;line-height:17.8333px"> </span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">Sustainability </span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">\u2022 </span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">Energy </span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">\u2022 </span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px">Design</span><br></div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;line-height:14.2667px"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px">Certified B-Corporation since 2013</span><span style="font-size:13.3333px"><br></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 12:03 PM Lloyd Hoffstatter <<a href="mailto:lloyd@sunstruckconsulting.com" target="_blank">lloyd@sunstruckconsulting.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div style="direction:ltr">Dave,</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Looking at 2014, NEC 250.24(B) FPN and exhibits tends to imply bonding at first means of disconnect. This also minimizes potential ground loops.</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Best regards,</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Lloyd Hoffstatter</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Sunstruck Consulting<span id="gmail-m_7218405212886945044gmail-m_-74301644754608408ms-outlook-ios-cursor"></span></div>
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<div id="gmail-m_7218405212886945044gmail-m_-74301644754608408divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> on behalf of Dave Tedeyan <<a href="mailto:dtedeyan@taitem.com" target="_blank">dtedeyan@taitem.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:56:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] unfused disconnect before service disconnect</font>
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<div dir="ltr">I'm looking to the hive mind here to see if others can weigh in on an issue I am having with an inspector. Grid tied PV system, with a line side tap in an automatic transfer switch. There is an outdoor utility required system disconnect right
next to the transfer switch. But there was not enough physical space to get something that was service rated with overcurrent protection. So we installed a QO200TR, which is a tiny switch that looks like a circuit breaker, is rated at 60A, but does not actually
have overcurrent protection. Then just inside the basement is the service disconnect with the neutral ground bond, etc. The inspector is telling me to bond the neutral and ground in the outdoor unfused disconnect, and remove it in the disconnect in the basement.
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<div>I am having trouble finding a code reference. Does anyone know of one showing that the unfused disconnect is not the service point even though it comes first? Or is this not something that is allowed? We are on NEC 2017 here in NY..</div>
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<div>Thanks!</div>
<div>-Dave<br clear="all">
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<div><b><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Dave Tedeyan, PE</font></b></div>
<div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC</font></div>
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