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Ray,<br>
<br>
Per NEC 480 batteries below 48 volts didn't need a readily
accessible disconnect within site of the batteries. That's unchanged
in the 2020 Code, you don't have to have a readily accessible
disconnect within site of the batteries. That's a good thing
considering the environment near lead acid batteries. A disconnect
switch still isn't required in the 48-volt battery room.<br>
<br>
Yes, if you put a 48-volt battery in a one or two-family dwelling,
an outside (remote) emergency disconnect is required. That is going
to be a pain that may add hundreds of dollars to the cost of small
off-grid systems. You might get away with a mushroom switch and a
24-volt tap on the batteries to activate a remote trip breaker. But
considering that it is a fire-safety related circuit it is probably
best to spend the money for the bird box.<br>
<br>
At the very least 480.7(B) should make off-grid folks think about
using a power shed. The power shed is not a dwelling so 2020 NEC
480.7(B) doesn't apply. <br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
Blue Mountain Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/19/2020 8:34 PM, Ray wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e40934be-85dc-c624-4261-6d886b34a4ce@solarray.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>I've used Blue Planet, so I guess I have used an actual UL
listed ESS, even though they don't include the charge controller
or inverter. I knew they were UL, but I double checked and it
is the UL 9540 standard mentioned in 706. So in this case, we
could ignore 480, but are held to 706. Regardless of 480 or
706, both are possibly requiring the outside remote disconnect.
Besides Midnite's remote trip breakers, and the dreaded Bird
House, what other options are there to meet this new
requirement? Can the Blue Planet be tripped remotely?<br>
</p>
<p>and still my initial question: <br>
</p>
<p>Under 480.7, are batteries below 60v still required to have the
remote disconnect? They are exempted from having a disconnect
at all in 480.7(A)......quite confusing. <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/19/20 7:06 PM, Jerry Shafer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMUFgmV0cpB_PCN724mVZ+nsjsRH7ZW5n=M3o7EkH5SoKVGAyQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Wrenches
<div dir="auto">Blue planet are fire and UL listed systems
both on there 48 Volt and the LX flavors</div>
<div dir="auto">Jerry</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 5:51
PM Ray <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>The notes in the NEC 2020 Handbook for article 706
clearly state that 706 only covers ESS which is an
assembly of components, and that the total assembly must
be listed under UL 9540. <br>
</p>
<p>Further it states: "<i> A group of separate components
that includes storage batteries, that is provided with
support systems (racks), charge controllers, and
inverters, and that does NOT have an overall listing
as an ESS is a storage battery system and as such is
subject to the requirements of article 480"</i></p>
<p>and just in case someone says the notes don't matter,
706.5 says: "<i>Energy Storage systems shall be listed"</i>.</p>
<p>So, since I have never used an actual listed ESS, I'm
back to 480. Specifically, 480.7 (A) says we need a
disconnect for batteries over 60 vdc (48v should be
exempt) and then 480.7(B) says houses need to have an
outside disconnect for the batteries labeled "Emergency
Disconnect". <br>
</p>
<p>So here's the real question: Does 480.7(A) exempt us
from 480.7(B)? <br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div>On 3/9/19 8:08 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Glenn, I don't completely agree with
your interpretation of ESS systems and the application
of Article 706. Yes, an ESS <i>could</i> provide
120/240 VAC (e.g. the Powerwall), but the figures in
Article 690 show three different configurations where
the output of the ESS is not AC, and where the ESS
disconnect comes before any power electronics (like a
multimode inverter, as shown in the AC and DC coupled
systems) or loads (as shown in the stand-alone
system). Are those ESS connected to other systems
which utilize stored energy to provide AC power? Yes,
but the key is "connected to other systems" - in many
cases the ESS only provides DC. In fact the
definition of ESS clearly states this - it <i>can</i> have
AC or DC output, and it <i>may</i> include power
electronics (but may not).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>My understanding is
that the 60 volt limit
(which is obviously
problematic in a world
where 48 VDC batteries and
ESS are very common) was
inserted in order to
exempt other devices that
store energy (such as UPS,
or battery backup in fire
alarms/exit signage/etc.)
from the 706 requirements.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian Mehalic <br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
Installation
Professional\u2122 R031508-59</div>
<div>National Electrical
CodeŽ CMP-4 Member</div>
<div>(520) 204-6639<br>
<div><br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 9, 2019
at 4:07 PM Glenn Burt <<a
href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Ray,<br>
<br>
This is a conversation I have had some time ago with
a number of my fellow inspectors and code experts.
When the 2017 NEC came out, I agreed with Mike Holt
and Bill Brooks' assessment that the new article was
poorly written and did not apply to most systems
being installed today. After much discussion through
my Cadmus network of authorities, it emerged that
indeed 706 apples to the typical residential
systems.<br>
So Energy Storage Systems (ESS) are the point of
article 706, and I believe that the key point is
that the SYSTEM is generating AC voltage of 120VAC
or 240VAC, making the system fall under article 706.<br>
<br>
Batteries themselves are minimally covered by NEC
480, NFPA 1, and the IFC as applicable locally.<br>
So, the bottom line is that the new article does
cover the work we do when systems provide or
interface with 120VAC or above (making the system
operation exceeding the 60V AC trigger).<br>
<br>
My initial problem was believing that the article
applied to a component (the battery bank), and not
the system (all components taken together as a
generator/storage system). It is an easy
misunderstanding to make.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps!<br>
<br>
-Glenn Burt<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
On Behalf Of Ray<br>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2019 12:41 PM<br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Cc: Bill Brooks <<a
href="mailto:billb@energy808.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">billb@energy808.com</a>>;
Bill Brooks <<a
href="mailto:billbrooks7@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">billbrooks7@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NEC for Batteries < 60v ??<br>
<br>
Hi Everyone;<br>
<br>
I'm updating all my verbage on plansets, and I just
realized that the newly created article 706 covering
Energy Storage Systems is only for Over 60 VDC
(706.1) Also article 480 for batteries only
requires disconnecting means over 60 VDC ?!
(480.7). I'm not about to not have a disconnect,
so now that NEC pulled battery systems out of 690,
where do we go for guidance on normal battery
systems: 12, 24, 48 VDC?<br>
<br>
Overall, I welcome most of the changes in NEC 2017,
like separating off grid systems into articles 706,
and 710, but it seems us off grid installers need
some more clarification.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
--<br>
Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
303 505-8760<br>
<br>
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