<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>The notes in the NEC 2020 Handbook for article 706 clearly state
that 706 only covers ESS which is an assembly of components, and
that the total assembly must be listed under UL 9540. <br>
</p>
<p>Further it states: "<i> A group of separate components that
includes storage batteries, that is provided with support
systems (racks), charge controllers, and inverters, and that
does NOT have an overall listing as an ESS is a storage battery
system and as such is subject to the requirements of article
480"</i></p>
<p>and just in case someone says the notes don't matter, 706.5 says:
"<i>Energy Storage systems shall be listed"</i>.</p>
<p>So, since I have never used an actual listed ESS, I'm back to
480. Specifically, 480.7 (A) says we need a disconnect for
batteries over 60 vdc (48v should be exempt) and then 480.7(B)
says houses need to have an outside disconnect for the batteries
labeled "Emergency Disconnect". <br>
</p>
<p>So here's the real question: Does 480.7(A) exempt us from
480.7(B)? <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/9/19 8:08 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPKGs9SPdqXJrXjSA9ZKycuer+cDDpDNyd-DdVN+-rRbABzjjw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Glenn, I don't completely agree with your
interpretation of ESS systems and the application of Article
706. Yes, an ESS <i>could</i> provide 120/240 VAC (e.g. the
Powerwall), but the figures in Article 690 show three different
configurations where the output of the ESS is not AC, and where
the ESS disconnect comes before any power electronics (like a
multimode inverter, as shown in the AC and DC coupled systems)
or loads (as shown in the stand-alone system). Are those ESS
connected to other systems which utilize stored energy to
provide AC power? Yes, but the key is "connected to other
systems" - in many cases the ESS only provides DC. In fact the
definition of ESS clearly states this - it <i>can</i> have AC
or DC output, and it <i>may</i> include power electronics (but
may not).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>My understanding is that the 60
volt limit (which is obviously
problematic in a world where 48 VDC
batteries and ESS are very common)
was inserted in order to exempt
other devices that store energy
(such as UPS, or battery backup in
fire alarms/exit signage/etc.) from
the 706 requirements.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian Mehalic <br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
Installation
Professional\u2122 R031508-59</div>
<div>National Electrical CodeŽ CMP-4
Member</div>
<div>(520) 204-6639<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Solar Energy International<br>
<a
href="http://www.solarenergy.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.solarenergy.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SEI Professional Services</div>
<div><a
href="http://www.seisolarpros.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">http://www.s</span>eisolarpros.com</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:07 PM
Glenn Burt <<a href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi
Ray,<br>
<br>
This is a conversation I have had some time ago with a number
of my fellow inspectors and code experts. When the 2017 NEC
came out, I agreed with Mike Holt and Bill Brooks' assessment
that the new article was poorly written and did not apply to
most systems being installed today. After much discussion
through my Cadmus network of authorities, it emerged that
indeed 706 apples to the typical residential systems.<br>
So Energy Storage Systems (ESS) are the point of article 706,
and I believe that the key point is that the SYSTEM is
generating AC voltage of 120VAC or 240VAC, making the system
fall under article 706.<br>
<br>
Batteries themselves are minimally covered by NEC 480, NFPA 1,
and the IFC as applicable locally.<br>
So, the bottom line is that the new article does cover the
work we do when systems provide or interface with 120VAC or
above (making the system operation exceeding the 60V AC
trigger).<br>
<br>
My initial problem was believing that the article applied to a
component (the battery bank), and not the system (all
components taken together as a generator/storage system). It
is an easy misunderstanding to make.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps!<br>
<br>
-Glenn Burt<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
On Behalf Of Ray<br>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2019 12:41 PM<br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Cc: Bill Brooks <<a href="mailto:billb@energy808.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">billb@energy808.com</a>>;
Bill Brooks <<a href="mailto:billbrooks7@yahoo.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">billbrooks7@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NEC for Batteries < 60v ??<br>
<br>
Hi Everyone;<br>
<br>
I'm updating all my verbage on plansets, and I just realized
that the newly created article 706 covering Energy Storage
Systems is only for Over 60 VDC (706.1) Also article 480 for
batteries only requires disconnecting means over 60 VDC ?!
(480.7). I'm not about to not have a disconnect, so now that
NEC pulled battery systems out of 690, where do we go for
guidance on normal battery systems: 12, 24, 48 VDC?<br>
<br>
Overall, I welcome most of the changes in NEC 2017, like
separating off grid systems into articles 706, and 710, but it
seems us off grid installers need some more clarification.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
--<br>
Ray Walters<br>
Remote Solar<br>
303 505-8760<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>