<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Answers to your questions/comments:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">1. The same voltage in the panelboard would also apply to the junction box in which it would be located (as suggested by Enphase). You have to bring a 240V 3-wire circuit to the Envoy in its enclosure. I don't see the difference.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">2. Enphase's IQ combiner is only good for 52 IQ7+ micros. These systems are much larger.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">3.Yes. Tested. Successful.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">4.There isn't quite *that* much extra room, but ample room for the Envoy on a DIN rail.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">5. I ma hesitant as well. Absent some good answers from Enphase, it's a tough call because I don't consider their documented solution compliant given that you can't ground the DIN rail they provide.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:"helvetica neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2"><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/cd7ee5b8f72f9150cba39549b618d038dca6f767?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridasolardesigngroup.com%2F&userId=1613865&signature=a4cdfea4a151220f" target="_blank"><img alt="" src="https://i.imgur.com/UDMAhMR.png" style="padding-right:10px;width:100px;height:100px"></a></td><td rowspan="2"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(237,237,237);color:rgb(85,85,85);font-size:13px;padding-left:10px"><tbody><tr><td style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(51,51,51)"><strong>Jason Szumlanski</strong></td></tr><tr><td style="color:rgb(51,51,51)">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</td></tr><tr><td colspan="1"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="line-height:18px;padding-top:5px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-right:5px"><img alt="" src="https://i.imgur.com/Qq3VCBA.png" style="width:13px;height:13px"></td><td style="padding-right:5px"><a href="tel:(239)+491-8010" style="color:rgb(85,85,85)" target="_blank">(239) 491-8010</a></td><td style="padding-right:5px"><img alt="" src="https://i.imgur.com/CyWZJyo.png" style="width:13px;height:13px"></td><td><a style="color:rgb(85,85,85)">(239) 410-4985</a></td></tr><tr><td style="padding-right:5px"><img alt="" src="https://i.imgur.com/l7Y5iqe.png" style="width:13px;height:13px"></td><td colspan="3" rowspan="1" style="padding-right:5px"><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/c677689c3f678ffaffc928248903416b6527e0d4?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.FloridaSolarDesignGroup.com&userId=1613865&signature=51d821586fb66e26" style="color:rgb(85,85,85)" target="_blank">www.FloridaSolarDesignGroup.com</a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="1"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="padding-top:5px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding-right:5px"><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/f25733ecf11782bdea1c7a9b0b578bbd7b7e645d?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Ffloridasolardesigngroup&userId=1613865&signature=b9bf743399157a4f" target="_blank"><img alt="Facebook" src="https://i.imgur.com/WQQ7oax.png" style="width:20px;height:20px"></a></td><td style="padding-right:5px"><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/9db60e6983ff51be3465543c64d70f5ac39b5392?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FFloridaSolarDG&userId=1613865&signature=f0f6684ccf90f946" target="_blank"><img alt="Twitter" src="https://i.imgur.com/165gErD.png" style="width:20px;height:20px"></a></td><td style="padding-right:5px"><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/7e09bbb712d3ed6735c5bf2febabb0569a23e382?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fchannel%2FUCjnsYt5r7DNJD3ZnqI10j8g&userId=1613865&signature=6873b4330fbe90e3" target="_blank"><img alt="Youtube" src="https://i.imgur.com/aiz22xL.png" style="width:20px;height:20px"></a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><b><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 4:07 AM William Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-1986948502970317379WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Jason:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Several issues come to mind:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="gmail-m_-1986948502970317379MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>1.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I think the question that dictates is the insulation rating of the Envoy and associated wiring as possibly exposed to voltages within the panelboard. This is akin, but not identical, to the scenario described in NEC 300.3(C). Insulation rating matters if any low voltage equipment could in any odd-ball scenario contact an energized part. I don\u2019t imagine the Envoy assembly has an insulation rating. The insulation rating must also apply to any communications, CT or any other purposed conductors associated the Envoy. Indeed, this is the same problem regularly encountered when installing energy monitor equipment, such as E-gauge or similar, in panels.</span></p><p class="gmail-m_-1986948502970317379MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>2.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If there are any power line communications interference problems, you want your Enphase branch circuits to land in a separate sub-panel so you can apply filtering if needed. The Envoy must be connected to that sub-panel. Enphase makes some custom combiners for this specific purpose. Any reason you are not using a sub-panel or Enphase combiner to collect Enphase circuits?</span></p><p class="gmail-m_-1986948502970317379MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>3.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If the Envoy is in a metal can will the Wi-Fi work?</span></p><p class="gmail-m_-1986948502970317379MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>4.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If there is so much room, would you consider mounting an enclosure in the panel inside of which the Envoy could be mounted? A PVC pull box, as one option, would not diminish the Wi-Fi signal any more than it already is and would provide the insulation needed to keep energized parts away from the low voltage equipment that is the Envoy. I have even bent up some galvanized sheet metal partitions to install in breaker panels. If well fabricated and bonded, this has made me feel warm and fuzzy about the safety of same.</span></p><p class="gmail-m_-1986948502970317379MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>5.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Based on the above, I would not put a naked Envoy in a breaker panel unless it was my own house.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I hope these musings help you decide on a design strategy that you and the AHJ think is safe and legal.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sincerely,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">William Miller</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Miller Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/5dd283a39fd90538d788acedda94c8e99c05b474?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millersolar.com%2F&userId=1613865&signature=f5aaf0e548f4604a" target="_blank">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">CA Lic. 773985</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 1, 2020 2:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy Enclosures</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Can anyone point to any code issues with mounting an Envoy inside of a panelboard? For example, when installing a 3-phase commercial system with a large 400A AC combiner panelboard, there is often PLENTY of room to mount an Envoy inside on a DIN rail. Aside from the manufacturer's instructions not specifically listing this option, I can't see any reason that it would be prohibited. The only downside I can see would be slightly more difficult access to service buttons.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I would argue that it is better. The DIN rail would be bonded to the enclosure. The DIN rail that Enphase ships with the Envoy is too short to accept a DIN mounted grounding terminal. When mounting in a non-metallic enclosure I run an EGC to a grounding terminal on a longer DIN rail that I install, not the included one. I'm wondering how people handle the lack of a ground terminal on the Envoy and whether they even run an EGC along with the circuit conductors when mounting an Envoy in a non-metallic enclosure. I have not been able to get a good answer from Enphase on how they expect this to be accomplished. I suppose if the Envoy does not need an equipment ground because it is insulated, and the DIN rail is not exposed once the Envoy is mounted. Maybe it is their opinion that no EGC is required, but I see the DIN rail as needing an EGC.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Anyway, that's a lengthy side note. I'm mainly wondering if the Envoy can be mounted in a panelboard.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Jason Szumlanski</span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><b> </b></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" id="gmail-m_-1986948502970317379_x0000_i1025" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7"></p></div></div></div>
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