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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>I have El-cids in stock & am selling them off.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>I have switched to the new AC technology that Grundfoss & TACO offer. They are called ECM pumps. Electronically Commutated Pump motors. AC-DC motors, soft start, variable speed, super-efficient, best of all very QUIET!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>C - 208.721.7003 dana@solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>NABCEP # 051112-136 <a href="http://www.solarwork.com/"><span style='color:blue'>www.solarwork.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span></u><u><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:green'>Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Howie Michaelson<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 16, 2020 11:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Dave Angelini <offgridsolar@sti.net>; RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Another pump quesiton<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>When my El Sids started failing years ago, I spoke with Dan and he recommended a voltage regulator to prevent the fluctuations and spikes. I installed one which seemed to help, but did not stop the failures. My memory is that he didn't have much else to say at the time other than there must have been a problem in the system. My impression was they were susceptible to voltage excursions more than the average. None-the-less, I need to find a different efficient pump that doesn't cost $300 a pop. I've seen some imported DC pumps that are very inexpensive - even if they don't last a long time, perhaps that may work for now.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Howie<br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:#783F04'>Howie Michaelson<br></span><span style='color:#6AA84F'>Sun Catcher</span></b><span style='color:#888888'><br></span><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:blue'>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer\u2122<br></span></i></b><b><span style='color:#783F04'><img border=0 width=147 height=68 style='width:1.5312in;height:.7083in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1MQF8aTcFNnBR59ia5JAm1DsPHCxzNkPx&export=download"></span></b><b><span style='color:#783F04'><br></span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#444444;background:white'>Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service<br></span></b><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#B45F06;background:white'>802-272-0004</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 12:13 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p>I have not seen electronics fail in an El Cid from Ivan labs fail. Probably only 4 installed. The one here is 15 years old on my domestic hot water. The others are still working, I think.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Talk to Dan at Ivan and see what he says. There was not a website really (last time I looked) but here is the number<o:p></o:p></p><p> ivan labs 561-747-5354 Talk with Dan<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>text 209 813 0060</span></strong><o:p></o:p></pre></div><p>On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:55:31 -0600, Ray <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p>I've always suspected that one of the issues was the variable voltage of DC systems. Batteries get low, and the current increases quite a bit, cold weather or EQing and the voltage can get really high and cause problems. The total variation just seems to take out a fair bit of both brushes and controls. This is just my long standing theory however, and I don't have Lab results.<o:p></o:p></p><p>I actually had similar problems on 120 vac, when I lived on the edge of the grid. Voltage varied from 90 to 145 vac, and cooked quite a few things like washing machine controls (every 3 months or so) Once I put in a backup power system to protect those circuits, the controls lasted for a decade. <o:p></o:p></p><pre>Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Remote Solar<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>303 505-8760<o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/15/20 10:29 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p>This has been my experience as well, although I can't give such specific rationale as to why the El Sids failed - the electronics just usually and eventually fail in my battery-based hydronic system. The Marches just eventually wear out.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Allan<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/15/2020 9:57 PM, Howie Michaelson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Dave,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I used to use El Sids a lot in SHW systems with direct PV drive for the glycol circulation. I've long stopped installing SHW, but have used them in off grid hydronic heat systems as well. The electronics have failed on many of these pumps over the years. They seem particularly intolerant of higher voltages, even small ones, which if they are being driven off battery voltage, is hard to avoid. None-the-less while I really liked the El Sids, they were too expensive to have as many failures as they did. I'm familiar with March pumps as well, but they always seem to fail prematurely as well, for even more money. I was hoping there might be a suitable replacement for a somewhat less expensive alternative.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Howie<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#783F04'>Howie Michaelson</span></strong><b><span style='color:#783F04'><br></span><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#6AA84F'>Sun Catcher</span></strong></b><span style='color:#888888'><br></span><em><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer\u2122</span></b></em><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:blue'><br></span></i><span style='color:#783F04'><br></span></b><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#444444;background:white'>Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service</span></strong><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#444444;background:white'><br></span></b><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#B45F06;background:white'>802-272-0004</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 10:29 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p>Why did the El Sid fail? The one way I have seen them fail, and any pump for that matter is rain water that has (for some reason) lower than a normal PH. Below from wiki.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Normal, clean rain has a <strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>pH</span></strong> value of between 5.0 and 5.5, which is slightly acidic. However, when rain combines with sulfur dioxide or nitrogen oxides\u2014produced from power plants and automobiles\u2014the rain becomes much more acidic. Typical acid rain has a <strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>pH</span></strong> value of 4.0.<o:p></o:p></p><div><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>text 209 813 0060</span></strong><o:p></o:p></pre></div><p>On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:49:35 -0400, Howie Michaelson <<a href="mailto:Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com" target="_blank">Howie.Michaelson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I need to replace 3-5 El Sid pumps I'm using in a low volume hydronic heating system. Other than laing pumps, are there any recommendations for 12, 24, or 48 vDC pumps? Having magnetic drives that mate with the impeller body of the El Sids, would be a bonus.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Howie<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#783F04'>Howie Michaelson</span></strong><b><span style='color:#783F04'><br></span><strong><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#6AA84F'>Sun Catcher</span></strong></b><span style='color:#888888'><br></span><em><b><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:blue'>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer\u2122</span></b></em><b><i><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:blue'><br></span></i><span style='color:#783F04'><br></span></b><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#444444;background:white'>Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service</span></strong><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#444444;background:white'><br></span></b><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#B45F06;background:white'>802-272-0004</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a 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