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    <p>What size Air Conditioners? Those seem like really small battery
      banks for that.  I suppose they just run in the day mostly when
      the sun is shinning?<br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/12/20 3:25 PM, Dave Angelini
      Offgrid Solar wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1ada6ca4e61ff4b7398f2a98180809fe@127.0.0.1">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p>I have 5 clients in Florida running mini-split heat pumps
        offgrid. The smallest is a 13 kwh useable and the rest running
        L16 2v cells @ 48v nominal.  Not trying to be a contrarian but
        with a 2,000 square foot house with great insulation and SEER
        numbers around 30, it is not that hard. Need alot of solar, and
        virtual tracking for the afternoon thunderstorms in the south
        also.</p>
      <div>
        <pre> </pre>
        <pre><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail  <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
      </div>
      <p>On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 12:54:39 -0400, Jason Szumlanski
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">&lt;jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com&gt;</a> wrote:</p>
      <blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
        border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --><!-- meta ignored -->
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:
            arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:
              arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">54kWh doesn't go far for air
              conditioning in September in Southwest Florida. Trust me.
              Most homes have $200+ electric bills at $0.10/kWh this
              time of year, sometimes substantially more.</div>
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:
              arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:
              arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Generator backup, even with 4
              Powerwalls, is necessary for mission-critical grid-tied
              backup situations. Sadly, you can't charge Powerwalls with
              a generator. You just bypass battery storage and run loads
              straight off the generator, which means the generator
              needs to be sized for the whole home. It would be nice to
              have a generator input for supplemental charging at least
              with a small portable unit.</div>
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:
              arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:
              arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">There is no perfect solution
              for this application. At least no cost-effective solution.</div>
            <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:
              arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at
              6:06 PM August Goers &lt;<a
                href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" moz-do-not-send="true">august@luminalt.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:</div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
              <div dir="ltr">Hi Bill -
                <div> </div>
                <div>I completely agree with your statement about all
                  off-grid applications. Most if not all need
                  generators. And, I do think there are some grid tied
                  applications where generators make sense too,
                  especially for folks who live way out in the woods as
                  you mention. I was speaking about the mass market in
                  CA in cities or towns where the grid is
                  typically fairly reliable. If you install four
                  Powerwalls, for example, you have up to 54 kWh of
                  storage available. There are applications where
                  generators make sense, and all these fires and smoke
                  and heat waves prove the point. I think AC is critical
                  for some parts of the country, and energy storage + PV
                  alone just won't cut it for those critical
                  applications.</div>
                <div> </div>
                <div>But, yes, good point.</div>
                <div> </div>
                <div>August
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <p> </p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 11, 2020
                  at 2:33 PM frenergy &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">frenergy@psln.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:</div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px
                  0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc;
                  padding-left: 1ex;">
                  <div>
                    <p>August,</p>
                    <p>            Quite frankly and with due respect
                      about the comment about more PV and battery to
                      forego the need for a generator, I disagree. Those
                      folks living off-grid in the sticks (um,er, myself
                      included), it would be a very bad thing not to
                      have Gen input.  The current situation here in
                      Plumas county  (and many other counties right now)
                      is another perfect example.  It is so smokey that
                      my daily KWhrs has been cut in half and of course
                      every other off-grid home is having the same
                      issue. This has been going on for almost a month
                      with only occasional breaks.  There are also CC
                      failures, FET board craps out, other excrement
                      occurs.</p>
                    <p>            We all know there are many critical
                      needs for power especially to run a pump for fire
                      protection, frig for food, communication to know
                      what the hell may coming your way during some
                      event (fire, flood, bad weather) medical needs,
                      etc.  In the winter there are at least a few times
                      when there is little or no sun for 1 maybe 2
                      weeks...that gets to be a spendy array and
                      battery.  Certainly, the idea of going that route
                      works for some scenarios but not off-grid. 
                      Generators are still a much needed necessary
                      evil.  Maybe its a big deal to incorporate that
                      feature in an inverter??  Sounds like bean
                      counting.</p>
                    <p>My $.02 worth</p>
                    <p>Bill</p>
                    <pre>Feather River Solar Electric            
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
<a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/e37b8134584cfc480c3ad6deab2b0b296c8da98a?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frenergy.net&amp;userId=1613865&amp;signature=057ab7bbd77fff54" moz-do-not-send="true">www.frenergy.net</a></pre>
                    <div>On 9/11/2020 1:01 PM, August Goers wrote:</div>
                    <blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;
                      border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
                      width:100%">
                      <div dir="ltr">In CA the market for ESS is
                        primarily grid tied support features driven by
                        SGIP + backup (public safety power shutoffs,
                        folks who live in less stable grid areas, folks
                        worried about natural disasters) so the ESS is
                        designed to replace generators. This might be a
                        little trickier for areas that need air
                        conditioning during a grid outage (or for all
                        electric homes), but one tactic is just to go
                        bigger with the ESS and PV system. I guess what
                        I'm saying is that the value proposition might
                        already be getting better just to skip the
                        generator and go bigger with the storage. Even
                        Generac might be going that route.
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>August<br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep
                          11, 2020 at 11:52 AM Jason Szumlanski &lt;<a
                            href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>&gt;
                          wrote:</div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:
                          0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid
                          #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div style="font-family:
                                arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">We are
                                seeing tons of companies in Florida
                                offering Generac/Pika now. They didn't
                                do it when it was Pika, so why would
                                they now that it has an orange label?
                                Crazy. </div>
                              <div style="font-family:
                                arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
                              <div style="font-family:
                                arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">No
                                generator input makes zero sense and
                                even less sense for a generator
                                manufacturer.</div>
                              <div style="font-family:
                                arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"> </div>
                              <div>
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div dir="ltr">
                                              <div dir="ltr">
                                                <div style="text-align:
                                                  center;"><br>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">
                              <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri,
                                Sep 11, 2020 at 12:58 PM Chris Schaefer
                                &lt;<a
                                  href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a>&gt;
                                wrote:</div>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                border-left: 1px solid #cccccc;
                                padding-left: 1ex;">
                                <div dir="ltr">Jeremy,
                                  <div>Pika was bought out by Generac
                                    and rebranded as their PWR cell.
                                    Most of the old crew from Pika are
                                    now working for Generac. It's beyond
                                    me that Generac bought them and yet
                                    they still don't have a generator
                                    input. That's why I could never sign
                                    on to the Pika product line. Good
                                    luck.</div>
                                  <div> </div>
                                  <div>Christopher</div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">
                                  <div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On
                                    Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 11:00 AM Jeremy
                                    Rodriguez &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:allsolarjeremy@msn.com"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">allsolarjeremy@msn.com</a>&gt;
                                    wrote:</div>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
                                    border-left: 1px solid #cccccc;
                                    padding-left: 1ex;">
                                    <div dir="auto">If anyone has any
                                      info on how to get a hold of The
                                      former PIKA ENERGY support group,
                                      please contact me off list. 
                                      <div>Or if anyone knows where one
                                        could get one of their inverters
                                        rebuilt/repaired let me know.<br>
                                        <div><br>
                                          <div dir="ltr">Jeremy
                                            Rodriguez 
                                            <div>Solar Installation / <span
                                                style="font-size: 13pt;">Design
                                                Expert </span></div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>All Solar, Inc.
                                                <div>1463 M St<br>
                                                  <div>Penrose Colorado
                                                    81240</div>
                                                  <div> </div>
                                                  <div>Sent by Jeremy's
                                                    iPhone. Sorry for
                                                    typos and
                                                    shorthand. </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
_______________________________________________</blockquote>
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