<div dir="auto">Wrenches<div dir="auto">On the latest enphase issue withe fuses, swap leads L1 to L2 and to L1 and wait if its the same fuse or same leg.</div><div dir="auto">Jerry</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 4:29 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>So the resolution to this is in... But I still have no idea what was wrong. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The string of 10 offending microinverters was split into 5 and 5. We had a spare breaker in the IQ Combiner so it was relatively easy to run another branch circuit. It has been over two months with no recurrence. So the issue seems to be resolved, but again, no idea why.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So here we go again... On another system we have a similar problem now. In this case it is supply side interconnected with a fusible disconnect. The same fuse (same line) keeps blowing every few to several weeks. We can't find any home run wiring issues or issues with terminator caps. There are no apparent faults in the AC Combiner. We have no idea why this is happening. But in this system, just the fuse blows, not one of the individual branch circuit breakers. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is getting very frustrating. And this is way more serious because fuses and service calls are expensive and I can't isolate the issue to one branch circuit. I don't even know where to start. Leaving each circuit disconnected for several weeks to prove a negative is an untenable suggestion to make to a client. But I don't see any other good options. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason Szumlanski </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 3:42 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Yes, we double-checked that. I have seen that happen before and it's one of my early diagnostic steps for something like this.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:"helvetica neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif"><tbody></tbody></table><b><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:18 AM Mac Lewis <<a href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Jason,<div><br></div><div>Are you certain that the branch circuits aren't crisscrossed somewhere, meaning that an L1 branch 1, isn't connected to an L2 branch 2? That could explain two different breakers tripping. </div><div><br></div><div>Good luck</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:07 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Undoubtedly, the termination caps are the second thing we check after the rooftop junction box(es). These are prone to installation errors, even when the right parts are used. And given the cost, I've thought very long and hard about abandoning them altogether and terminating strings in small j-boxes with watertight fittings. But in this case, there was no evidence of improper installation (we replaced them) and it was not correlated to rain events.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We are well equipped with bare Q-cable and field wireables that we could use for troubleshooting to bypass certain sections, but the intermittent nature of the problem and unpredictable timeframe between faults is very frustrating. While this is a rare occurrence, it is definitely a "con" to consider when comparing string vs. microinverters that I had not strongly considered in the past. I'm intent on getting to the bottom of this in order to learn what to look for in the future and how to approach diagnoses of Enphase branch circuit faults.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:"helvetica neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif"><tbody></tbody></table><b><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 2:31 PM Amos Post <<a href="mailto:integrityenergy101@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">integrityenergy101@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>I was just at a site last week where the Enphase branch circuit breaker, outside utility disconnect breaker, and feed breaker in the main panel all tripped simultaneously, and it happened about 1 hour before I showed up onsite. The customer said it had happened 1 other time last fall but that time it was just the 1 branch circuit in the Enphase combiner panel. Interestingly the customer mentioned that he had just washed off the panels, also about 1 hour before I got there. I went on the roof and found that the installing contractor had not put on the Enphase termination caps. 1 string was wire-nutted with regular wire nuts and sitting on the roof, and the roof was damp right there. This was a fairly flat roof. The other micro trunk cable was just cut with no protection at all, tied to the rail\u2026<div><br></div><div><br><div>
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<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jun 3, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The breaker in the main panel IS tripping simultaneously with one of the branch circuit breakers each time.</div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><b><div style="text-align:center"><br></div><div style="text-align:center"><br></div><div style="text-align:center"><br></div><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:43 PM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">A question that keeps nagging me is why do these breakers trip and not the breaker in the main panel? </div><div dir="ltr">Presuming there is a 40 amp in the main</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I would have thought that given all the times the breakers have tripped at some point that one would have tripped and I can\u2019t understand why not? </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jay </div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 3, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Shafer <<a href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">\ufeff<div dir="auto">Wrenches<div dir="auto">Looking g at the bigger breaker tripping at the same time is very likely do to response time of the breaker nothing more. As l suggested in a previous message. Use a non bridged breaker to see if it is one or both legs that trip. Also an eguage will help to see what if anything leads up to the failure and when. </div><div dir="auto">Jerry</div><div dir="auto">Jerry</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output circuit" having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue somewhere within the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to the microinverter, is it possible that a fault could still occur at night? I had a suggestion from another wrench that there are film capacitors on the AC output side, but are these isolated when there is no DC input? It seems unlikely that this would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters reporting a couple of watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real that is.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? That seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you don't often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit breakers.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream. </div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif"><p>If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid.</p><div id="m_3884468757415385497m_2649556500485342876gmail-m_9219180041338812497gmail-m_-2593835731601265847gmail-m_-2056581339762963638gmail-m_-4394409340153391165m_-7145948492847024444gmail-m_-6641809747008533802signature">---<br><div style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"> </div></div><p><br></p><p id="m_3884468757415385497m_2649556500485342876gmail-m_9219180041338812497gmail-m_-2593835731601265847gmail-m_-2056581339762963638gmail-m_-4394409340153391165m_-7145948492847024444gmail-m_-6641809747008533802reply-intro">On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:</p><blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px 0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px"><div id="m_3884468757415385497m_2649556500485342876gmail-m_9219180041338812497gmail-m_-2593835731601265847gmail-m_-2056581339762963638gmail-m_-4394409340153391165m_-7145948492847024444gmail-m_-6641809747008533802replybody1"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my first suspicion.</div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:center"> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>Is it at all weather related? Rain, or high humidity? High temperatures? Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?</p><pre>Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre><div>On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px 0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px"><div dir="auto">Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time. <div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto">As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and then trip again.</div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto">I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point.</div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto">Jason</div><div dir="auto"> </div></div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping simultaneously with the combined output breaker.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2"> </td><td rowspan="2"> </td></tr></tbody></table><div style="text-align:center"> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM <<a href="mailto:scot.arey@solarcentex.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">scot.arey@solarcentex.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div><p>Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.</p><div> <br></div><p>We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.</p><div> <br></div><p>This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...</p><div> <br></div><p>My story.</p><div> <br></div><p>Scot</p><div> <br></div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p><strong>From:</strong><span> </span>RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><span> </span><strong>On Behalf Of<span> </span></strong>Jason Szumlanski<br><strong>Sent:</strong><span> </span>Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM<br><strong>To:</strong><span> </span>RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong><span> </span>[RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng</p></div><div> <br></div><div><p>I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each coming into an Enphase AC combiner. </p><div><div> <br></div></div><div><p>What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and cap, etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker. </p></div><div><div> <br></div></div><div><p>Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems unlikely that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit. </p></div><div><div> <br></div></div><div><p>I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a fusible disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if there is in fact a fault.</p></div><div><div> <br></div></div><div><p>I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing out of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed. </p></div><div><div> <br></div></div><div><p>Jason Szumlanski</p></div><div><p>Florida Solar Design Group</p></div><div><div> <br></div></div><div><div> <br></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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