<div dir="ltr">Also keep in mind that the battery charge/discharge efficiency is much higher for lithium batteries compared to lead acid.<div><br></div><div>Richard</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 8:17 AM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">Hi William,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I dont do the math based on up front kwh cost, but on lifetime kWh based on the number of cycles per average DOD that are going to be used. I use this same formula to compare all batteries to each other. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jay</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Peltz power. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">For example, a Rolls L16 ex has 3500 cycles at 50% DOD, and it\u2019s a 371 amp hr at 6v or 2.226 kWh </div><div dir="ltr">Retail is $400 </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">3500 cycles x 1.1 kWh At 50 DOD=3850 kWh </div><div dir="ltr">$400 / 3850 kWh = $.10 kWh </div><div dir="ltr">10 years of 50% cycling daily </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Compared to say a mid grade US battery, 1400 cycles to 50%, 400 amp hr. 2.4 kWh </div><div dir="ltr">$325/1680 kWh = $.19 kWh. </div><div dir="ltr">3.8 yrs life</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Compare to say BI</div><div dir="ltr">$1000 kWh roughly. </div><div dir="ltr">If you get 10,000 cycles, that works out to same cost. $.10 per kWh. </div><div dir="ltr">27 yrs, but will the chemistry actually last that long?</div><div dir="ltr">However, you have a massive upfront money cost. </div><div dir="ltr">And for those of us off grid, you can\u2019t really cycle 100%. And many lithium in the fine print don\u2019t want you to charge to 100% daily. Let\u2019s assume you start the generator at 10% and charge to 95%, now your usable amount is actually 85%, not 100%. </div><div dir="ltr">Cost per kWh goes to $.12. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><blockquote type="cite">On Aug 11, 2020, at 6:04 AM, William Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank">william@millersolar.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">\ufeff<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Friends:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I am hoping y\u2019all can tell me I am doing something wrong with my arithmetic. I have registered to purchase Blue Planet batteries and priced the product. I come up with math that indicates that comparing usable amp/hours to usable amp/hours, that the Blue Planet is 5 times the cost of a flooded L-16 battery array on a cost per kilowatt/hour. Can this be true?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I am using these parameters:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p style="margin-left:0.75in"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>1.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">DOD for flooded L16s: 50%</span></p><p style="margin-left:0.75in"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>2.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">DOD for Blue Planet: 100%</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I hope I am wrong.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Also, we often install battery arrays that are upwards of 4,000 AH. For example, we installed 5,668 of East Penn flooded batteries on a couple of projects. To acquire the same capacity in Blue Planet would require 9 cabinets (again 50% DOD versus 100% DOD). Is this correct design? Is it practical to install 9 cabinets? Does the system detect and compensate for circulating currents in this many parallel strings?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks in advance.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">William Miller</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jerry Shafer<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 9, 2020 12:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Wrenchel have been very happy with all my Blue Planet battery systems, best battery you will install.</p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jerry</p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 11:19 AM <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" target="_blank">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">Hello Wrenches,<br><br>What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Drake<br>Athens Electric<br><br>-- <br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></p></blockquote></div></div>
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