<div dir="ltr">Hi Jason - I'm not familiar with the acronym AGS, but it will do solar curtailment via frequency shifting. The tech doc says that the generator will turn on once SOC reaches a lower threshold and remain on to power loads and charge the Powerwall(s). So, it is designed for automatic generator operation. I haven't personally installed an off grid Powerwall system although we do have one in the final permitting stage.<div><br></div><div>Yea, the ESS market in general is really heating up with lots of cool products hitting the market. The Microgrid Interconnect Device (MID) such as the Tesla Gateway, Enphase Empower smart switch, and SolarEdge Backup Interface is a particular game changer. For anyone who hasn't read this article by Bill Brooks, I highly recommend it:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/features/renewables/connection-of-normal-and-emergency-power-sources-for-homes/">https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/features/renewables/connection-of-normal-and-emergency-power-sources-for-homes/</a></div><div><br></div><div>August <br><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:15 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hi August,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">To clarify, will the Gateway do AGS, or is this for manual charging only? If they get this right, it could be a gamechanger for people who want a hybrid system with generator auxiliary (whether whole-house generator or portable perhaps). The big problem in Florida is after a storm you need air conditioning, but running that off Powerwalls can be a challenge due to cost and/or capacity. On the other hand, burning limited fuel for varying loads isn't a really efficient use of a generator. A hybrid system makes a lot of sense here, especially for clients that have natural gas at their home already.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Enphase has an edge I think because they can fire up a generator and have the Envoy tell the microinverters to cease production. Of course, this functionality is not yet released on the software, but they have generator lugs build into their Gateway, so you know they are thinking along these lines.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Things are getting very interesting with these "AC Batteries."</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason Szumlanski</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><b><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 5:30 PM August Goers <<a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" target="_blank">august@luminalt.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Tesla released new offgrid design and installation instructions April of this year. As a Powerwall dealer, we're under NDA not to share the document, but the Powerwall will now charge from the generator when it hits a certain SOC threshold if the PV is not running. I'm not sure about that caveat of not allowing the generator to run while the PV is running. It seems like there are plenty of times where there is low solar production and you want to fire up the generator to top off the batteries. They also have a low state of charge mode when SOC reaches 10%, that the Powerwall will turn on during the day for short periods of time just to test to see if the PV system will couple up to charge the battery. This AC-coupling method of reviving the battery may or not work depending on loads and PV sizing / production levels.<div><br></div><div>One limitation to the NMC battery technology is that it doesn't work well particularly in the cold, so offrige Powerwall batteries should be installed in the heated envelope of the home. </div><div><br></div><div>August<br><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:09 AM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The Powerwall 2 is now supported by Tesla in an off-grid configuration from what I heard. It is AC coupled. It cannot interact with generators whatsoever. You can't charge the battery with a generator and you can't AC couple a generator to it. If you want a generator, you put a transfer switch on the load side of the gateway device. If the battery dies, the generator starts. The generator powers loads, but does not recharge the battery because it becomes isolated via the transfer switch. The big downside I see with that is there would be a loss of power to the loads until the generator fires up. I don't see a way around that.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm not a Tesla certified installer, but I have seen some of these batteries out in the wild and that's just the way it is - it's an integrated unit. I'd call it an "AC Battery," kind of like an AC PV Module. To answer another point in this thread, if the battery reaches its LBCO it can only recharge with PV in an off-grid scenario. It reserves battery capacity to turn on occasionally to see if there is PV input. At least that's how I understand it to work. I don't know what would happen if the battery actually reached 0%. Seems risky. I'm not sure how you would "jump start" it. Publicly available details seem scant on this, but there are a few system owners talking about it if you dig deep on the Interwebs.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">It will be interesting to see what Enphase comes up with. There are generator inputs on their Ensemble system, but no software support for this yet. The concept is very similar to Tesla in that there is a gateway device, essentially a transfer switch with battery controls inside. The Gateway acts as the AC point of coupling for everything to tie in together. </div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm not sure why you couldn't use a generator to charge the Powerwall battery the same way you would charge with the grid. However, you would need a way to disable PV AC coupling when the generator is running. I can see how Enphase would be able to do this pretty easily. But Tesla is clear in that they do not allow a generator to interact with the Powerwall in any way.</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jason Szumlanski</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 11:43 AM Hilton Dier III <<a href="mailto:hiltondier@gmail.com" target="_blank">hiltondier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Greetings, Wrenches,</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I have an off-grid
client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla Powerwall
2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and
it appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input
version, but apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be
agnostic about technology, and I'd be willing to subcontract a
Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, this was the best
solution.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Does anybody have
experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV system? Is
it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing?
What is the lead time on these?<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Many Thanks,</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Hilton</font><br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">--
Hilton Dier III
Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design
</pre>
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