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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, Mac.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Outback support was kind enough to call me on the phone and discuss. Thank you Outback \u2013 you\u2019re the best on knowledge of your product!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Back to where I\u2019m going with this. I\u2019m going to get in the installer menu to ensure there are not sell limits enabled that were not immediately apparent from the standard Mate views. In my mind, this corroborates my gut feel that the inverters seemed throttled back.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I will disable the GT mode on the charge controllers individually across all 12. I don\u2019t have a good feel as to what I think this will do going forward but that will be one of my last steps.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Before that, I\u2019m going to check that charging parameters (using the charger hard key) are not what are unsatisfied and perhaps preventing full Sell mode. Perhaps\u2026an unstable grid out there is constantly resetting the grid connection timer back to 5 minutes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>None of this an original thought \u2013 all from Outback.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Mac, I did calibrate the voltage across the charge controllers and the master inverter, via the Mate. I may go back and check calibration at the other inverters / ports too as I have not done that. Of note, the Mate will allow calibration up to .8 volts and this was just barely not enough to bring them to the charge controllers level but before I go down that rabbit hole\u2026I feel like I want all devices \u201cseeing\u201d the same voltage but I recognize, to your point below, that there may in fact be voltage deviations between devices as devices load and unload. So\u2026is \u201ccalibration\u201d brining each device to the true voltage measured at that particular device or is \u201ccalibration really a normalization of voltages across the system, with some voltage being the reference point?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>As for mode \u2013 in grid-tied mode. Remember there is no digital network connection between the inverters/Mate to the CCs. All the basic level settings (Sell enabled, sell voltage below float\u2026) have all been set.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Will keep all updated so we can learn on this one.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Scot<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mac Lewis<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:52 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Radians x 8 don't seem to sell back as much as they could in this microgrid<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Scot,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tell us much more about your set-points and entire set-up. Screen shots of OpticsRE can help if that's available. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Are your charge controllers dropping into float or float MPPT? Or constantly in bulk? <u>I can't recommend that you put them in grid-tied mode although that is supposed to work.</u><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What grid-input mode are you using? (Grid-tied, mini-grid, back-up, UPS, or ?) This will have significant impact on what will happen in various circumstances.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What's your offset? Is offset enabled?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>What's your sell voltage?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Is sell enabled?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The charge controllers should force power onto the DC buss, while the inverter should sell it away. There is a constant tug of war between devices. If we assume you can sell all of the solar available, then be aware that there are charge algorithms that take some time to equal out. For example, you may see the DC buss voltage increase while the inverter gears up to sell, after a bit of time, you may see the inverter overshoot the sell voltage a bit and back off to allow it to recover. Do the calculations and verify you are getting approximately what you expect over the course of a day, noting that there is a lot more inefficiencies in these systems than straight grid-tied. If the charge controllers are clipping power, be sure that the absorb time is long and the absorb voltage is well above the offset voltage. Here is a good article about what is happening <a href="http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/offset_tech_note_correc.pdf">http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/offset_tech_note_correc.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>There is a lot of programming that will need to be correct for optimization. <u>Be sure to calibrate voltage across devices.</u><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>These can work well, but are far from automatic or easy to program.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Good luck and more info will really help us help you. I highly recommend OpticsRE connection if possible<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 2:23 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I have had a hard time getting FM60s (not my install) to sell at the same rate even though they had identical PV on them. They were all on the same Hub and the voltages were the same. I never did explain that. It's been a while but I think that client just gave up because the cost to research and correct it became too high for the relatively small system.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I wouldn't install a DC Coupled grid interconnected system today if the primary purpose was grid selling. AC Coupling has so many advantages. DC Coupled systems always have to have me thinking that they could be selling more. They don't have adequate monitoring for selling. I'm even thinking about going to all AC Coupling even for off-grid. I don't do a ton of off-grid, but I have always been disappointed in the data monitoring and setup interfaces for the various brands of charge controller and how they interact with inverter/chargers. I'm willing to take the efficiency hit to just get good data on the PV output.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Jason Szumlanski<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:49 AM <<a href="mailto:scot.arey@solarcentex.com" target="_blank">scot.arey@solarcentex.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hello wrenches:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have a rural \u201cmicro-grid\u201d system with eight 8048 Radian, twelve FM80s, and paralleled RE2700 batteries. I\u2019ll spare you the details of how we got here (this started as half this size bt we doubled and enlarged to micrgrid support instead of single ranch dwelling.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Because of the increases, the ability to network all together with hubs is not possible. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It seemed as if the FM80s were not producing as much as they could. I\u2019ve checked the charging parameters and feel good about those. All voltages are calibrated across the FM80s as well as the Mate 3. The Mate 3 is connected to the eight inverters only. The FM80s are not networked together; I was concerned about that until I read an earlier post here. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Yesterday, I left with an impression that my challenge might be the inverters not selling to their maximum potential. It seemed like they certainly had more voltage \u201cspace\u201d before they hit the lower threshold for sell voltage but the inverters just were not making as much I expected them to make.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Only indication to give you is that the inverters, as seen on the Mate 3, would cycle up to a max about 11kw of selling back to the grid and then return back to 4KW of selling (while meeting minimal household loads on during home reconstruction. It would hit this peak and cycle down before it hit the sell voltage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Each port for each inverter is set for 50A. The charger for each port is set for 30A (even though to be quite honest I just do not know why/how the charger must be on for a grid-tied system with PV charging\u2026)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Any thoughts or recommendations? I waited for a return call form Outback but nothing yet and know somebody here will have some ideas.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><img border=0 width=294 height=116 style='width:3.0625in;height:1.2083in' id="gmail-m_8093685049580465302gmail-m_8204938277195322508Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.png@01D62F4B.608463B0"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/abed719dc5599e707fefc032c9f34f64372f8c4a?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=8ee9fc2f33cdf672" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/bba23446cad610beb50c0b9687529bef84c8a44f?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fre-wrenches%40lists.re-wrenches.org%2Fmaillist.html&userId=1613865&signature=441ad154a8e395a4" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/4272056687cf80a1205b3e0a80f75b4c6c654072?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm&userId=1613865&signature=e84cef9aa2c142a5" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/888a94a361d11c5db25e069607dad209f76350c3?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=4fd5fa0e01efc654" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/8d08b8714ef24b2f7335d23baa7338766bb93ac2.png?u=1613865"><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Mac Lewis<b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#FF9900'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#305A78'>"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </span><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#686868'>-Sócrates</span></b><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#FF9900'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></div></body></html>