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    <p>To change this, we need to recognize we are "fighting City Hall",
      and I doubt the CMP will be motivated to make changes on their
      own.  Maybe this has always been more political than technical,
      but it seems that those who are opposed to the current
      requirements need to make it known through the formal processes. 
      The CMP is required to respond and in that response we can learn
      of their reasons for not accepting any changes, or the changes
      they would be willing to consider.  I just don't see things
      changing otherwise. <br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/7/2020 10:18 AM, James Jarvis
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFWEuYXatCXbpHHE8v6N+nX=zX3yQZFW9uab71q6Es-tFsjC1A@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">If first responders are the point of all the rapid
        shutdown, there needs to be better exemptions. I personally have
        a 20kW solar array on a 100 year old unused barn at my farm. The
        roof is at 50 degrees slope and needs a 60ft boom lift to
        access. There was significant extra expense and effort for the
        rapid shut down. And there is absolutely zero chance that a
        first responder would do anything other than watch the barn
        burn. And now I have an array that needs a $1,000 piece of
        rental equipment to get to the back of any module.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>There is a big difference between the stuff that is in big
          cities and what is in rural and what is in remote locations.
          For my telecom customers in Alaska and Antarctica, what is the
          point of decreasing reliability by putting module level
          electronics on solar arrays that require a multiple hour
          helicopter flight to get to. That's not protecting
          anybody other than the MLPE manufacturer's profit.<br>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
            <div>
              <div>
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
                  data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div>-James Jarvis<br>
                      APRS World, LLC<br>
                      +1-507-454-2727<br>
                    </div>
                    <a href="http://www.aprsworld.com/" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.aprsworld.com/</a><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
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      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 8:43 AM
          Christopher Warfel &lt;<a
            href="mailto:cwarfel@entech-engineering.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">cwarfel@entech-engineering.com</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div>
            <p>I believe Rapid Shutdown was mostly a solution looking
              for a problem.   The only way I see this becoming
              "reasonable" is to present "grievances" to the Code Making
              Panel WITH a solution for their consideration.  Based on
              experience from being part of an outreach program that
              taught approximately 10k firefighters over four years, I
              have asked that they add to the Directory, the language
              that states what type of solar electric system is on site
              (Microinverter, dc optimizer, string, multimode, grid
              isolated) so that First Responders don't have to guess.  I
              realize this is different than MLPE, but it targets the
              person who Rapid Shutdown came into being for, and that
              was the First Responder.   Chris<br>
            </p>
            <p><br>
            </p>
            <div>On 5/6/2020 10:37 PM, Ray wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <p>Spending more time on the roof, while putting more
                equipment and parts to meet MLPE, means more trips up
                the ladder, which increases, not decreases the #1 worker
                safety danger: Falls.  Please correct me if I have
                somehow misunderstood this, but MLPE is not making
                installers safer based on OSHA information provided.  
                Also after installation, which system is more likely to
                require workers to return to work on the roof, pulling
                up modules, trying to find problem equipment?  More
                connections is More safe?  Really?  I haven't had to
                climb back up on the roof on any of my older, lower
                voltage off grid work in almost a decade.<br>
              </p>
              <p>Once again, MLPE has its place, (larger systems,
                multiple subarrays, higher voltage) but we should have
                sensible exemptions as have been mentioned already.  We
                are endangering ourselves and our employees needlessly,
                to comply with 690.12.  <br>
              </p>
              <pre cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
              <div>On 5/6/20 8:41 PM, <a
                  href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <p>Interestingly enough, the data on the <a
href="https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/AccidentSearch.search?p_logger=1&amp;acc_description=&amp;acc_Abstract=solar&amp;acc_keyword=&amp;sic=&amp;naics=&amp;Office=All&amp;officetype=All&amp;endmonth=05&amp;endday=05&amp;endyear=2002&amp;startmonth=05&amp;startday=05&amp;startyear=2021&amp;InspNr="
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">link</a> provided
                  shows accidents from gas explosions, falls, health
                  problems and  industrial injuries. None of these
                  incidents could have been prevented by module level
                  power electronics. This is typical of the data that
                  I've seen so far. </p>
                <div id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033signature">---<br>
                  <div
                    style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"> </div>
                </div>
                <p><br>
                </p>
                <p id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033reply-intro">On
                  2020-05-06 17:22, Martin Herzfeld wrote:</p>
                <blockquote type="cite" style="padding:0px
                  0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
                  <div id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033replybody1">
                    <div dir="auto">
                      <div dir="auto">
                        <div dir="auto">There could be an issue of
                          encouraging MLPE for worker safety?</div>
                        <div dir="auto"> </div>
                        <div dir="auto">1.  This is data involving
                          incidents with workers in the OSHA Fatalities
                          and Catastrophe Investigation Summaries found
                          here:</div>
                        <div dir="auto"><a
href="https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/AccidentSearch.search?p_logger=1&amp;acc_description=&amp;acc_Abstract=solar&amp;acc_keyword=&amp;sic=&amp;naics=&amp;Office=All&amp;officetype=All&amp;endmonth=05&amp;endday=05&amp;endyear=2002&amp;startmonth=05&amp;startday=05&amp;startyear=2021&amp;InspNr="
                            rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/AccidentSearch.search?p_logger=1&amp;acc_description=&amp;acc_Abstract=solar&amp;acc_keyword=&amp;sic=&amp;naics=&amp;Office=All&amp;officetype=All&amp;endmonth=05&amp;endday=05&amp;endyear=2002&amp;startmonth=05&amp;startday=05&amp;startyear=2021&amp;InspNr=</a></div>
                        <div dir="auto"> </div>
                        <div dir="auto">2.  In the past I've observed an
                          arc fault at the module level with traditional
                          string systems without a listed arc-fault
                          circuit interrupter NEC/CEC 690.11. The
                          function in NEC/CEC 690.12 would be - to <u>reduce
                            the shock hazard </u>- for <em>emergency
                            responders</em> or <em>firefighters? (NEC
                            2020).</em>  However, <span
                            style="font-family:sans-serif">I've observed
                            thermal events in the panelboard with plans
                            and workmanship issues. </span></div>
                        <div dir="auto"><span
                            style="font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div>
                        <div dir="auto"><span
                            style="font-family:sans-serif">On the other
                            hand, falls are the #1 reason for incidents
                            in the construction industry. </span></div>
                        <div dir="auto"> </div>
                        <div dir="auto">
                          <div dir="auto">All the best, <br>
                            <br>
                            Martin Herzfeld, Interstate Renewable Energy
                            Council (IREC) Certified Master Trainer \u2122
                            for Photovoltaics (PV) Installation
                            Professional #IREC 10037<br>
                            Contract Training Provider (CTP)<br>
                            Adjunct Professor, Energy<br>
                            <br>
                            California Solar &amp; Electrical Contractor
                            License  #00833782  C46, C10, D56, D31, C-7
                            - Since 2004<br>
                            Solar, Electrical, Trenching, Pole
                            Installation &amp; Maintenance,
                            Instrumentation<br>
                            <br>
                            Contract Solar (PV) Technical Inspector -
                            3rd Party Inspections <br>
                            Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Certified PV
                            Installer #17, OSHA 30<br>
                            OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer
                            #32-0105338<br>
                            CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom
                            Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG<br>
                            <br>
                            * Professional Member, International
                            Association of Electrical Inspectors 
                            #7035507 - Since 2006<br>
                            * Accredited and Registered North American
                            Board of Certified Energy Practitioners
                            (NABCEP) Continuing Education (CE) Training
                            Provider<br>
                                </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 8:29 AM
                          &lt;<a
                            href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
                            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>&gt;
                          wrote:</div>
                        <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                          rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div
                            style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
                            <div
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419signature"><br>
                              <div>I would like to see real data on the
                                fire risk of string inverters. Anecdotal
                                problems are not data.</div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div>The industry is definitely heading
                                toward MLPE due to the rapid shutdown
                                requirements. In many cases MLPE makes
                                sense, in other cases it doesn't. </div>
                              <div> </div>
                              <div>Systems that are more cost effective
                                and reliable can often be built by using
                                string inverters.</div>
                              <div
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419v1signature">---</div>
                              <br>
                              <div
                                style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"> </div>
                            </div>
                            <p><br>
                            </p>
                            <p
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419reply-intro">On
                              2020-04-29 22:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:</p>
                            <blockquote style="padding:0px
                              0.4em;border-left:2px solid
                              rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
                              <div
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419replybody1">
                                <div dir="auto">
                                  <div><span
                                      style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif;font-size:13.3333px">"Rapid
                                      Shutdown does not prevent fires."</span><br>
                                    <br>
                                    Not true. If the effect of RS is to
                                    steer the market to MLPE, I believe
                                    it has a significant impact on
                                    reducing fire risk. As one who has
                                    watched a DC conductor fire smolder
                                    out of control, I am sold on an AC
                                    module or microinverter
                                    architecture. While RS on a DC array
                                    doesn't necessarily reduce fire risk
                                    within the array, it still has the
                                    potential to reduce severity and
                                    spread. Nothing is going to prevent
                                    all fires. I get that. We're talking
                                    about risk mitigation when it comes
                                    to RS. </div>
                                  <div dir="auto"> </div>
                                  <div dir="auto">As for "dependable
                                    string inverters," the one
                                    dependable feature is failure at
                                    least once in the module lifetime,
                                    accompanied by a shocking repair
                                    bill.</div>
                                  <div dir="auto"> </div>
                                  <div dir="auto">I'm not a shiny object
                                    following kind of guy, but the
                                    writing is on the wall. MLPE is the
                                    future. Modular, serviceable,
                                    disposable if you will. Like it or
                                    not, Edison is going to lose this
                                    battle to Tesla (Tom vs Nikola). And
                                    I live less than 5 minutes away from
                                    Tommy E's winter home in Fort Myers,
                                    FL. And I "grew up" in the industry
                                    living off-grid in DC power. But AC
                                    distribution wins for safety at
                                    various scales.</div>
                                  <div dir="auto"> </div>
                                  <div dir="auto"> </div>
                                  <div dir="auto"> </div>
                                  <div dir="auto"><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div dir="auto">
                                      <div dir="ltr">On Wed, Apr 29,
                                        2020, 9:42 PM &lt;<a
                                          href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
                                          rel="noreferrer"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>&gt;
                                        wrote:</div>
                                      <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px
                                        0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div
                                          style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
                                          <p>Rapid Shutdown does not
                                            prevent fires; it was
                                            originally drafted to allow
                                            firefighters to vent a roof
                                            without being hindered by
                                            energized PV arrays. This
                                            rule was expanded to include
                                            other DC wiring from PV
                                            sources.</p>
                                          <p>As for PV safety, I'd like
                                            to see some significant,
                                            statistical evidence that
                                            shows there is a major fire
                                            danger from PV relative to
                                            other sources. A fire from a
                                            solar array gets a lot more
                                            press than one from a gas
                                            leak, bad wiring or an ash
                                            tray emptied into a
                                            wastepaper basket.</p>
                                          <p>Large public buildings
                                            should have all the
                                            protection that is
                                            available. Does one size fit
                                            all?</p>
                                          <p>Would it be reasonable to
                                            allow residential
                                            installations under 12 kW,
                                            with 1/4 of the roof
                                            adjacent to the array
                                            available for venting, to be
                                            excepted from 690.12? What
                                            about sparsely occupied
                                            commercial buildings with
                                            ample roof area open for
                                            ventilation?  </p>
                                          <p>Many of us have chosen to
                                            work with renewable energy
                                            technology to lessen the
                                            harms caused by fossil fuel
                                            extraction and combustion.
                                            The need for non-carbon
                                            based energy sources has
                                            become extremely clear.</p>
                                          <p>The old string inverters
                                            still chug along year after
                                            year, with little or no
                                            maintenance. Someone must
                                            pay for the ongoing
                                            maintenance of module level
                                            electronics. Dependable
                                            string inverter systems
                                            should be allowed unless
                                            statically significant
                                            danger can be demonstrated.</p>
                                          <p>Drake</p>
                                          <div
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419v1m_8703790999668491827m_-4822667307395758786signature">---<br>
                                            <div
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                                          </div>
                                          <p><br>
                                          </p>
                                          <p
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419v1m_8703790999668491827m_-4822667307395758786reply-intro">On
                                            2020-04-29 16:01, Jason
                                            Szumlanski wrote:</p>
                                          <blockquote style="padding:0px
                                            0.4em;border-left:2px solid
                                            rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
                                            <div
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419v1m_8703790999668491827m_-4822667307395758786replybody1">
                                              <div dir="ltr">
                                                <div dir="ltr">
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
                                                    have been to several
                                                    PV fires for string
                                                    inverter systems,
                                                    both commercial and
                                                    residential, and
                                                    have seen many DC
                                                    systems at serious
                                                    risk of fires or in
                                                    various stages of
                                                    melted insulation
                                                    and connectors. Most
                                                    of these systems
                                                    have exhibited good
                                                    to excellent
                                                    workmanship. Things
                                                    just went wrong.
                                                    Some were traceable
                                                    to animal damage,
                                                    wind, or other
                                                    unmitigated factors,
                                                    and some were
                                                    unexplained. I
                                                    disagree that there
                                                    isn't
                                                    justification for
                                                    rapid shutdown. </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In
                                                    my opinion, what we
                                                    need is some
                                                    additional
                                                    innovation and
                                                    competition in the
                                                    MLPE space.
                                                    Reliability is
                                                    clearly a key
                                                    factor, but there is
                                                    no denying that MLPE
                                                    has added safety
                                                    benefits among other
                                                    benefits. And if you
                                                    do enough volume and
                                                    set up your business
                                                    for efficiency
                                                    (standardization of
                                                    product offerings),
                                                    MLPE isn't much more
                                                    expensive. It
                                                    becomes a negligible
                                                    cost relative to the
                                                    benefit. The value
                                                    proposition is easy
                                                    to convey. There are
                                                    limits to this, but
                                                    for the majority of
                                                    residential and
                                                    small commercial
                                                    installations, MLPE
                                                    has become the de
                                                    facto standard
                                                    around here. String
                                                    inverters are dinos,
                                                    and replacing 8-12
                                                    year old transformer
                                                    based inverters is
                                                    many times more
                                                    annoying than some
                                                    MLPE swaps. I will
                                                    admit that the roofs
                                                    around here are
                                                    pretty easy to walk,
                                                    so that is a factor
                                                    that might not apply
                                                    to you.</div>
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </div>
                                                  <div
                                                    style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
                                                    <div>If you go under
                                                      due to
                                                      manufacturer
                                                      product failures,
                                                      you are not
                                                      writing your
                                                      contracts right or
                                                      not charging
                                                      enough for service
                                                      issues beyond your
                                                      control. I believe
                                                      that's a red
                                                      herring. You might
                                                      suffer some
                                                      reputation damage,
                                                      but for someone
                                                      that has been
                                                      installing MLPE
                                                      for over a decade,
                                                      that is totally
                                                      manageable.
                                                      Consumers find a
                                                      service call to
                                                      replace MLPE a LOT
                                                      more palatable
                                                      than a surprise
                                                      inverter
                                                      replacement that
                                                      could cost
                                                      thousands of
                                                      dollars. People
                                                      just don't plan
                                                      for that.</div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <div>Regarding rapid
                                                      shutdown devices,
                                                      I have also come
                                                      across a few that
                                                      "someone" has
                                                      bypassed around
                                                      here. I don't know
                                                      if they were never
                                                      installed properly
                                                      or
                                                      disabled/bypassed
                                                      due to failure. It
                                                      seemed suspicious
                                                      to me at the time.
                                                      I remember that it
                                                      made me wonder
                                                      what good is a
                                                      rapid shutdown
                                                      device if it is
                                                      easily defeated?
                                                      That's another
                                                      argument for MLPE.
                                                      It has pretty
                                                      failsafe MLPE
                                                      functionality.</div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                    <div>Jason
                                                      Szumlanski</div>
                                                    <div>Florida Solar
                                                      Design Group</div>
                                                    <div> </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div
                                                          style="text-align:center"> </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div dir="ltr">On Wed,
                                                    Apr 29, 2020 at
                                                    10:59 AM &lt;<a
                                                      href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
                                                      rel="noreferrer"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>&gt;
                                                    wrote:</div>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    style="margin:0px
                                                    0px 0px
                                                    0.8ex;border-left:1px
                                                    solid
                                                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                                    <div
                                                      style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif">
                                                      <p>Clearly, rapid
                                                        shutdown
                                                        increases cost
                                                        and reduces
                                                        reliability.
                                                        Given the
                                                        excellent safety
                                                        record of PV,
                                                        prior to rapid
                                                        shutdown being
                                                        required, it is
                                                        unnecessary. The
                                                        few anecdotal
                                                        incidents of PV
                                                        fires were not
                                                        enough to
                                                        justify the
                                                        requirement,
                                                        especially on
                                                        smaller systems.</p>
                                                      <p>According to a
                                                        friend who
                                                        worked for a
                                                        local
                                                        installation
                                                        company that
                                                        went under, a
                                                        big part of the
                                                        reason for their
                                                        failure was the
                                                        chronic
                                                        replacement of
                                                        microinverters
                                                        and optimizers.</p>
                                                      <p>What steps can
                                                        be taken to
                                                        create some
                                                        balance in the
                                                        rapid shutdown
                                                        requirements
                                                        that are in the
                                                        NEC?</p>
                                                      <p><br>
                                                      </p>
                                                      <div
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419v1m_8703790999668491827m_-4822667307395758786v1gmail-m_1345399320785373203signature">---<br>
                                                        <div
                                                          style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:monospace"> </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <p><br>
                                                      </p>
                                                      <p
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419v1m_8703790999668491827m_-4822667307395758786v1gmail-m_1345399320785373203reply-intro">On
                                                        2020-04-29
                                                        07:27, Sky Sims
                                                        wrote:</p>
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
                                                        <div
id="gmail-m_-1291776225624998033v1m_2290657155954236750m_4502811265567478132m_3712700432789776903m_-6733482047517057893m_-3407248358338594000m_5945935475487622897m_5292728194858110127m_-7102267540490521419v1m_8703790999668491827m_-4822667307395758786v1gmail-m_1345399320785373203replybody1">
                                                          <div
                                                          dir="auto">So
                                                          far rapid
                                                          shutdown has
                                                          been a
                                                          nightmare.
                                                          It's added a
                                                          lot of cost
                                                          for no
                                                          measurable
                                                          benefit.
                                                          <div>Using
                                                          always off
                                                          devices like
                                                          midnight solar
                                                          and Tigo makes
                                                          it impossible
                                                          to test open
                                                          circuit
                                                          voltages.
                                                          Which opens
                                                          the door to
                                                          tons of
                                                          problems when
                                                          commissioning
                                                          systems. </div>
                                                          <div>Also
                                                          we've been
                                                          trying out
                                                          midnight
                                                          Solar's
                                                          product and
                                                          have had an
                                                          absurd failure
                                                          rate. Which
                                                          means lots of
                                                          truck rolls
                                                          and
                                                          troubleshooting
                                                          and system
                                                          downtime. They
                                                          send
                                                          replacement
                                                          product but
                                                          they aren't
                                                          paying for the
                                                          lost weeks of
                                                          productivity.</div>
                                                          <div>We have
                                                          Tigo product
                                                          in hand and
                                                          are deciding
                                                          which project
                                                          to try it on.
                                                          But our big
                                                          concern about
                                                          using it is
                                                          not only the
                                                          inability to
                                                          confirm open
                                                          circuit
                                                          voltage of the
                                                          strings but
                                                          also the way
                                                          panels bypass
                                                          if the device
                                                          doesn't allow
                                                          the panel to
                                                          connect
                                                          properly. Both
                                                          of these
                                                          features are a
                                                          recipe for
                                                          problems and
                                                          potential
                                                          troubleshooting
                                                          nightmares.
                                                          The warranty
                                                          from Tigo
                                                          doesn't cover
                                                          our expense if
                                                          the product
                                                          fails. And
                                                          that's really
                                                          what our
                                                          reservations
                                                          about the
                                                          product boil
                                                          down to right
                                                          now. If we're
                                                          on a job with
                                                          50 units and
                                                          one fails, the
                                                          contractor or
                                                          the homeowner
                                                          will be the
                                                          ones eating
                                                          the expense of
                                                          finding it and
                                                          replacing it.
                                                          There has to
                                                          be a better
                                                          option. </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Sky
                                                          Sims
                                                          <div><a
                                                          href="Https://EcologicalSystems.biz"
                                                          rel="noopener
                                                          noreferrer"
                                                          target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Https://EcologicalSystems.biz</a></div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">On Apr 28, 2020,
                                                          at 7:46 PM,
                                                          Corey
                                                          Shalanski &lt;<a
href="mailto:coresolar@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">coresolar@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="padding:0px
0.4em;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin:0px">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">Now
                                                          that 690.12 of
                                                          the <em>NEC</em> 2017
                                                          has been in
                                                          effect for
                                                          several years,
                                                          I am curious
                                                          how designers
                                                          and installers
                                                          are meeting
                                                          the associated
                                                          requirements
                                                          with string
                                                          inverter-based
                                                          systems (*not*
                                                          considering
                                                          microinverters
                                                          or DC
                                                          optimizers). I
                                                          am generally a
                                                          fan of the
                                                          KISS
                                                          principle, and
                                                          as best I can
                                                          determine the
                                                          <em>Tigo</em> TS4-F
                                                          device is one
                                                          of the
                                                          simplest
                                                          options
                                                          currently
                                                          available on
                                                          the market.
                                                          What are
                                                          others
                                                          finding?
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>I'd love
                                                          to hear about
                                                          favored
                                                          options for
                                                          complying with
                                                          rapid
                                                          shutdown. Any
                                                          success
                                                          stories? or
                                                          better yet,
                                                          any early
                                                          failures?</div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <div>--</div>
                                                          <div>Corey
                                                          Shalanski</div>
                                                          <div>Jah Light
                                                          Solar</div>
                                                          <div>Portland,
                                                          Jamaica</div>
                                                          </div>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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