<div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"></blockquote><div dir="auto">I\u2019ve been tasked with updating an old FLA off-grid facility. I put one of those SMAPEEs in a sub panel last summer(see attached). We were surprised to see the calculated monthly consumption rate of ~1 MWh and that does not include the well pump and mechanical room. There is currently; 4 MS4448-paw, 4 sets of the HUP batteries, and 6kW of ground mount PV, with two FM80\u2019s and one FM60. <div><img src="cid:171eba8803ab0dcc1e71" style="max-width: 100%;"></div></div><div dir="auto">The generator at the pump house mechanical building runs a lot.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We will need to put PV on the roof of two buildings to get a production rate anywhere close to the consumption rate. So now we need rapid Shutdown. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">A simplified break down of a new system is, does it make sense? </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">SI6048 x 2 120/24</div><div dir="auto">32kWh of Blue Ion Lithium </div><div dir="auto">SB7.7 x2</div><div dir="auto">~12kW of PV</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Hopefully this BOS can be duplicated and AC coupled. One in the pump house and one in the main building.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Any wrenches out there work on something similar? </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Any words of advice?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jeremy Troxell </div><div dir="auto">Insource Renewables </div><div dir="auto">Pittsfield - Maine</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems (Chris Sparadeo)<br>
2. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems<br>
(Jason Fisher (STC))<br>
3. Re: Recycling of LI vs Pb (Kirpal)<br>
4. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems<br>
(Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar)<br>
5. Re: Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems (Darryl Thayer)<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Chris Sparadeo <<a href="mailto:sparadeo.chris@gmail.com" target="_blank">sparadeo.chris@gmail.com</a>><br>To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br>Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 19:00:19 -0400<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems<br><div><span style="word-spacing:1px;color:rgb(49,49,49)">For AC coupled battery based systems it\u2019s a pretty easy solution. Any run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I haven\u2019t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution. </span><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:59 PM Chris Sparadeo <<a href="mailto:c2@catamountsolar.com" target="_blank">c2@catamountsolar.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div><div><div dir="auto">For AC coupled battery based systems it\u2019s a pretty easy solution. Any run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I haven\u2019t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution. </div></div></div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:21 PM Glenn Burt <<a href="mailto:Glenn.burt@glbcc.com" target="_blank">Glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div style="margin-bottom:45px">
<div style="font-size:10pt"><div dir="auto">The difference in topologies is that when the Tigo devices are used with an inverter driving the control is that it is relying on the Sunspec Alliance standard to be implemented correctly between the inverter manufacturer and Tigo.</div><div dir="auto">When using the Tigo devices at the modules and the Togo RSS box for control, the inverter is not involved and it removes a layer of possible incompatibility and finger pointing if things go sideways.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We have been told of such hiccups by our distributor, and they are pushing the IMO Fire raptor solution. Unfortunately they sell the SMA branded Tigo devices so have no feedback on their use with the RSS controller, only with the SMA inverter control of the rooftop devices.</div><div dir="auto">I have attended a couple of Tigo trainings, and the all Togo option looks straightforward. We have quoted their use a couple of times now, but have not
yet done an install.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><div dir="auto">-Glenn</div><div dir="auto">Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.</div></div></div><div style="font-size:10pt"><div id="m_2472046856042801963m_1389516935193038521m_-1120750727274157646m_1312731662685385131m_3241194027713302498LGEmailHeader" dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">------ Original message------</div><div dir="auto"><b>From: </b>Jerry Shafer<u></u><u></u></div><div dir="auto"><b>Date: </b>Fri, Sep 27, 2019 1:40 PM</div><div dir="auto"><b>To: </b>RE-wrenches;</div><div dir="auto"><b>Cc: </b></div><div dir="auto"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems</div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><div dir="auto">Wrenches<div dir="auto">Yes l am looking at the Tigo, they work with SMA and outback, </div><div dir="auto">Jerry</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 10:24 AM Lorenzo Ortiz <<a href="mailto:lorenzo@cal-solar.com" target="_blank">lorenzo@cal-solar.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr">Wrenches,<div><br></div><div>Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven, <b>cost-effective</b> products yet. </div><div>I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot about it.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Any input is appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><u style="font-weight:bold"><span></span><span></span></u> <img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1SNW41qVSpfo_yQlKW9a9netwEMmohllF&revid=0B6l5VcsZgAv3TlU5UTJwVXFHMXlpR05jOE9ndlhoK3BwejA0PQ"><br></font></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Loren Ortiz </font></span></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(153,153,153)">Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid</font></span></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(153,153,153)"><br></font></span></span></div><div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,255)"><a href="mailto:loren@cal-solar.com" rel="noreferrer" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">loren@cal-solar.com</a> <a href="http://californiasolarco.com" rel="noreferrer" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">californiasolarco.com</a></font></span></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><br></span></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><b style="font-family:Arial"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">Main:</font></span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)"> </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a href="tel:530-274-3671" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">530-274-3671</a> ext: 311 </font><u style="font-family:Arial"></u></span></b></span></span><b style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)"> </font></span></b><b style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">Fax:</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)"> </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a href="tel:530-274-7518" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">530-274-7518</a></font></span></b></div></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(153,153,153)"><br></font></span></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><b> </b> </font></span></div> <br><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><
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</div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-weight:bold;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><em style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)">Chris Sparadeo</span></em></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><strong style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)"><em style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652</em></strong><span style="font-weight:bold;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><em style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)"><br></span></em></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-weight:bold;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)">Catamount Solar, LLC</span></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)">4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060</span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)">C_(802) 369-4458</span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)">O_(802) 728-3600</span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)"><span style="outline:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="http://www.catamountsolar.com/" style="outline:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,99,193)" target="_blank">www.CatamountSolar.com</a></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)"><br></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;line-height:1.25;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,51,0)"><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1mCW-PHFLHFPeXrjcdIFP9qCjgiGEUCvd&revid=0BygFB0YkoiNNR2JhWEE1cEhwUnhQNW5obHV2MjNibktmWFUwPQ" width="200" height="200" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></p></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Chris Sparadeo</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>C_802-369-4458</div><div>H_802-728-3059</div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Jason Fisher (STC)" <<a href="mailto:stc.jason@gmail.com" target="_blank">stc.jason@gmail.com</a>><br>To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 01:56:56 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems<br>
<div>
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr">
<div>
<div></div>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Just a reminder to everyone struggling with this issue that only building-attached circuits energized by PV sources require RSD. So ground mounts generally don\u2019t, or at least would only require a disconnect at the building if sending
dc circuits into buildings. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Energy Storage is covered under article 706 in 2017 and does not require any shutdown, just sensible disconnection requirements. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="direction:ltr">Jason Fisher</div>
<div></div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_2472046856042801963m_1389516935193038521divRplyFwdMsg" dir="dir="ltr""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> on behalf of Chris Sparadeo <<a href="mailto:sparadeo.chris@gmail.com" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank">sparadeo.chris@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</b> Friday, September 27, 2019 5:00 PM<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </div>
</font></div>
<div><span style="word-spacing:1px;color:rgb(49,49,49)">For AC coupled battery based systems it\u2019s a pretty easy solution. Any run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling
and this is were it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I haven\u2019t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution. </span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:59 PM Chris Sparadeo <<a href="mailto:c2@catamountsolar.com" target="_blank">c2@catamountsolar.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">For AC coupled battery based systems it\u2019s a pretty easy solution. Any run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it gets tricky. Outback
has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I haven\u2019t found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution. </div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:21 PM Glenn Burt <<a href="mailto:Glenn.burt@glbcc.com" target="_blank">Glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div style="margin-bottom:45px">
<div style="font-size:10pt">
<div dir="auto">The difference in topologies is that when the Tigo devices are used with an inverter driving the control is that it is relying on the Sunspec Alliance standard to be implemented correctly between the inverter manufacturer and Tigo.</div>
<div dir="auto">When using the Tigo devices at the modules and the Togo RSS box for control, the inverter is not involved and it removes a layer of possible incompatibility and finger pointing if things go sideways.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We have been told of such hiccups by our distributor, and they are pushing the IMO Fire raptor solution. Unfortunately they sell the SMA branded Tigo devices so have no feedback on their use with the RSS controller, only with the SMA inverter
control of the rooftop devices.</div>
<div dir="auto">I have attended a couple of Tigo trainings, and the all Togo option looks straightforward. We have quoted their use a couple of times now, but have not yet done an install.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">-Glenn</div>
<div dir="auto">Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-size:10pt">
<div id="m_2472046856042801963m_1389516935193038521m_-1120750727274157646m_1312731662685385131m_3241194027713302498LGEmailHeader" dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">------ Original message------</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>From: </b>Jerry Shafer<u></u><u></u></div>
<div dir="auto"><b>Date: </b>Fri, Sep 27, 2019 1:40 PM</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>To: </b>RE-wrenches;</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>Cc: </b></div>
<div dir="auto"><b>Subject:</b>Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Wrenches
<div dir="auto">Yes l am looking at the Tigo, they work with SMA and outback, </div>
<div dir="auto">Jerry</div>
</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 10:24 AM Lorenzo Ortiz <<a href="mailto:lorenzo@cal-solar.com" target="_blank">lorenzo@cal-solar.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div>Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven,
<b>cost-effective</b> products yet. </div>
<div>I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot about it.<br>
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<div>Any input is appreciated.</div>
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<div>Thanks</div>
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<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><u style="font-weight:bold"><span></span><span></span></u> <img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1SNW41qVSpfo_yQlKW9a9netwEMmohllF&revid=0B6l5VcsZgAv3TlU5UTJwVXFHMXlpR05jOE9ndlhoK3BwejA0PQ"><br>
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<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Loren Ortiz </font></span></span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(153,153,153)">Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid</font></span></span></div>
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<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,255)"><a href="mailto:loren@cal-solar.com" rel="noreferrer" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">loren@cal-solar.com</a>
<a href="http://californiasolarco.com" rel="noreferrer" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">californiasolarco.com</a></font></span></span></div>
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<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><b style="font-family:Arial"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">Main:</font></span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">
</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a href="tel:530-274-3671" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">530-274-3671</a> ext: 311
</font><u style="font-family:Arial"></u></span></b></span></span><b style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)"></font></span></b><b style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">Fax:</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">
</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a href="tel:530-274-7518" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">530-274-7518</a></font></span></b></div>
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<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Kirpal <<a href="mailto:solarworks@gmail.com" target="_blank">solarworks@gmail.com</a>><br>To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br>Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 20:14:14 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Recycling of LI vs Pb<br><div dir="ltr">Hi Jay....There are numerous articles. Here are a few....I havn't researched much more than these articles...But it looks like interesting...Not really sure if they are up to full speed yet....<div><br><div><a href="https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122631_tesla-launches-battery-recycling-at-nevada-gigafactory" target="_blank">https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122631_tesla-launches-battery-recycling-at-nevada-gigafactory</a></div><div><a href="https://electrek.co/2019/04/16/tesla-battery-recycling-system/" target="_blank">https://electrek.co/2019/04/16/tesla-battery-recycling-system/</a></div><div><a href="https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/07/yes-tesla-recycles-all-of-its-spent-batteries-wants-to-do-more-in-the-future/" target="_blank">https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/07/yes-tesla-recycles-all-of-its-spent-batteries-wants-to-do-more-in-the-future/</a></div><div><br></div><div>This one I found the most interesting:</div><div><a href="https://medium.com/tradr/teslas-approach-to-recycling-is-the-way-of-the-future-for-sustainable-production-5af99b62aa0e" target="_blank">https://medium.com/tradr/teslas-approach-to-recycling-is-the-way-of-the-future-for-sustainable-production-5af99b62aa0e</a><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br><div>Kirpal Khalsa</div><div>Oregon LRT#25<div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>Oregon Solarworks LLC<br><a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>541-299-0402</div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 1:27 PM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">Hi Kirpal,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Do you know of any information about this recycling at Tesla?</div><div dir="ltr">Links, etc</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Thx</div><div dir="ltr">Jay</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Sep 27, 2019, at 7:49 AM, Kirpal <<a href="mailto:solarworks@gmail.com" target="_blank">solarworks@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">\ufeff<div dir="ltr">Hi Mark. Great question! This is an important consideration. Tesla has a recycling facility at their Nevada plant for their batteries. Curious how other LFP manufacturers recommend end of life handling. <div>Speaking of waste, As you all are installing systems of all varieties, what are you finding with regard to non sustainable packaging in all your "clean" energy materials. I am troubled that after many of our installs we have a pile of plastic and styrofoam as big as the the balance of system installation. Sometimes bigger. It drives me crazy to have this blight on our installation. I am often embarrassed when the customer points out this dichotomy of the installation. Which manufacturers are you happiest with in regards to environmentally friendly packaging materials for inverters, other balance of system, and batteries (probably LFePho4)? Collectively we should have the ability to pressure them to use more sustainable packaging. </div><div>I have seen some improvements and some half way implemented changes, but a lot more can be done to improve this aspect of our industry. All of us can help....Together we have a big voice.</div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Sunny Regards,<br>Kirpal Khalsa</div><div dir="ltr">Oregon LRT#25<br>NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>Oregon Solarworks LLC<br><a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>541-299-0402</div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:34 AM Mark Frye <<a href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com" target="_blank">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">Folks,<br>
<br>
Has anyone done a good review of the current state of affairs re: <br>
recycling Li batteries?<br>
<br>
I am a bit in the past with a starry-eyed view of Pb with HUP, in <br>
particular, believing that Pb batteries have almost a closed cycle <br>
product life, ie, we already have infrastructure to recycle something <br>
like 95% of the material in Pb batteries.<br>
<br>
Taking a step back, has our industry become just as jaded by our shiny <br>
new technology as every other sector of our economy, focusing on <br>
impressive new short term outcomes that are not really embedded within <br>
the frame work of a sustainable future?<br>
<br>
This is why I ask about the recyclablility / sustainability of Li <br>
batteries? Some what agnostic here but wondering what the thinking <br>
around this is?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Mark Frye<br>
<br>
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<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>><br>To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 08:58:48 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems<br><p>Just another reminder that one should most always do what the AHJ or inspector wants. When they are done you can do what is sensible and very often safer. We have a new inspector here who is about 24 years old who is really good.</p>
<p>Over the years it has been interesting/amusing to watch the learning curve.</p>
<pre style="font-family:monospace"><strong style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:monospace">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
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<p>On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 01:56:56 +0000, "Jason Fisher (STC)" <<a href="mailto:stc.jason@gmail.com" target="_blank">stc.jason@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Just a reminder to everyone struggling with this issue that only building-attached circuits energized by PV sources require RSD. So ground mounts generally don't, or at least would only require a disconnect at the building if sending dc circuits into buildings. </div>
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<div style="direction:ltr">Energy Storage is covered under article 706 in 2017 and does not require any shutdown, just sensible disconnection requirements. </div>
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<div id="m_2472046856042801963m_1389516935193038521divRplyFwdMsg" dir="dir="><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><strong style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</strong> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> on behalf of Chris Sparadeo <<a href="mailto:sparadeo.chris@gmail.com" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank">sparadeo.chris@gmail.com</a>><br> <strong style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sent:</strong> Friday, September 27, 2019 5:00 PM<br> <strong style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">To:</strong> RE-wrenches<br> <strong style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Subject:</strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems</span></span>
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<div><span style="word-spacing:1px;color:rgb(49,49,49)">For AC coupled battery based systems it's a pretty easy solution. Any run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I haven't found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution. </span></div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:59 PM Chris Sparadeo <<a href="mailto:c2@catamountsolar.com" target="_blank">c2@catamountsolar.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">For AC coupled battery based systems it's a pretty easy solution. Any run of the mill module level RSD compliant grid tied inverter system can work. Obviously, there are major advantages to DC coupling and this is were it gets tricky. Outback has a nice string level RSD option with the ICS, but I haven't found a comparable solution for other products. This seems like a great opportunity for a company like MidNite to create a solution. </div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:21 PM Glenn Burt <<a href="mailto:Glenn.burt@glbcc.com" target="_blank">Glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">The difference in topologies is that when the Tigo devices are used with an inverter driving the control is that it is relying on the Sunspec Alliance standard to be implemented correctly between the inverter manufacturer and Tigo.</div>
<div dir="auto">When using the Tigo devices at the modules and the Togo RSS box for control, the inverter is not involved and it removes a layer of possible incompatibility and finger pointing if things go sideways.</div>
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<div dir="auto">We have been told of such hiccups by our distributor, and they are pushing the IMO Fire raptor solution. Unfortunately they sell the SMA branded Tigo devices so have no feedback on their use with the RSS controller, only with the SMA inverter control of the rooftop devices.</div>
<div dir="auto">I have attended a couple of Tigo trainings, and the all Togo option looks straightforward. We have quoted their use a couple of times now, but have not yet done an install.</div>
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<div dir="auto">-Glenn</div>
<div dir="auto">Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.</div>
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<div dir="auto"><strong>From: </strong>Jerry Shafer<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></div>
<div dir="auto"><strong>Date: </strong>Fri, Sep 27, 2019 1:40 PM</div>
<div dir="auto"><strong>To: </strong>RE-wrenches;</div>
<div dir="auto"><strong>Cc: </strong></div>
<div dir="auto"><strong>Subject:</strong>Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems</div>
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<div dir="auto">Wrenches
<div dir="auto">Yes l am looking at the Tigo, they work with SMA and outback, </div>
<div dir="auto">Jerry</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 10:24 AM Lorenzo Ortiz <<a href="mailto:lorenzo@cal-solar.com" target="_blank">lorenzo@cal-solar.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven, <strong>cost-effective</strong> products yet. </div>
<div>I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot about it.</div>
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<div>Any input is appreciated.</div>
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<div>Thanks</div>
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<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><span style="font-weight:bold;text-decoration:underline"><span></span><span></span></span> <img src="cid:17068ae1ed299522e431" alt="" style="width: 100px; max-width: 100%; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0) !important; border-color: rgb(139, 174, 234) !important; color: rgb(167, 199, 245) !important;"><br> </span></span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Loren Ortiz </span></span></span></div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153)">Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid</span></span></span></div>
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</div><br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Darryl Thayer <<a href="mailto:darylsolar1@gmail.com" target="_blank">darylsolar1@gmail.com</a>><br>To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Cc: <br>Bcc: <br>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:42:35 -0500<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems<br><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Fire raptor will provide rapid shutdown at module level. Midnight also has the SOB. FireRaptor requires a control cable two wire, which can be powered by a 24 volt AC or a DC source. The Midnight SOB uses PLC from an AC or DC source. Outback uses the FireRaptor the two wire cable daisy chains and the presence of voltage on the cable closes the series circuit. I asked after their webinar if a single raptor could open several modules in series, I was told yes but I do not belive it. Ibelieve it is a single module device. I was told the two wire cable is isloated for up to 600 Volts, (maybe they said 1,000 V.) such that I could use one raptor conrtroller on two strings. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Code requires shutdown at module level for arc fault also, 690.11, for all unintended arcs this will mandate module level for parallel arcs, To be code compliant the charge controller for DC coupled systems, must have arc fault and a way to connect to the Fire Raptor string</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">Perhaps for smaller off grid, go to low voltage where arc fault is not required. or use a classic CC which has Arc Fault, but I do not know how to get a shutdown signal from the classic. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 12:24 PM Lorenzo Ortiz <<a href="mailto:lorenzo@cal-solar.com" target="_blank">lorenzo@cal-solar.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr">Wrenches,<div><br></div><div>Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid shutdown for off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at least in my area) and I haven't found any reliable, proven, <b>cost-effective</b> products yet. </div><div>I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot about it.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Any input is appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><u style="font-weight:bold"><span></span><span></span></u> <img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1SNW41qVSpfo_yQlKW9a9netwEMmohllF&revid=0B6l5VcsZgAv3TlU5UTJwVXFHMXlpR05jOE9ndlhoK3BwejA0PQ"><br></font></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Loren Ortiz </font></span></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(153,153,153)">Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid</font></span></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(153,153,153)"><br></font></span></span></div><div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,255)"><a href="mailto:loren@cal-solar.com" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">loren@cal-solar.com</a> <a href="http://californiasolarco.com" style="font-family:Arial" target="_blank">californiasolarco.com</a></font></span></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><br></span></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><b style="font-family:Arial"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">Main:</font></span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)"> </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)">530-274-3671 ext: 311 </font></span></b></span></span><b style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)"> </font></span></b><b style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12.6667px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)">Fax:</span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(68,68,68)"> </span><span style="vertical-align:baseline;font-family:Arial"><font style="font-family:Arial;color:rgb(153,153,153)">530-274-7518</font></span></b></div></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-weight:bold"><font style="color:rgb(153,153,153)"><br></font></span></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><b> </b> </font></span></div> <br><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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</div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Talk with you soon <br>Jeremy</div>