<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">IF OFF grid is how you are sizing it, you might look at the Victron Quattro 5kW inverter. 100 A pass thru + AC assist, 45-65 hZ<br class=""><div>90-140 input range.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 20, 2020, at 10:56 AM, Mac Lewis <<a href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" class="">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">This is an example of where some code requirements bump up against logic. I believe the AC voltage will be quite usable at the site, just not for code requirements of the AHJ, and it may get pretty low during high usage times. They make the electrician size it for 100A minimum for an ADU, even though the loads are pretty minimal, and then require <5% VD from the main service entrance. That is the requirement for the certificate of occupancy. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> Luckily, off-grid buildings don't have these requirements at all. I'm going to size it as an off-grid and probably tie it in at some point in the future.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks for the input.</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:20 AM <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org" target="_blank" class="">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif" class=""><p class="">We had a similar situation, and are now feeding a battery bank with a pair of 48 V Iota chargers. Iota can run on very low voltages. We have one Iota on each leg of the the 120/240 split phase to balance the load. It works. </p>
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</div><p class=""><br class=""></p><p id="gmail-m_8568014601580466354gmail-m_-6662448293164808202reply-intro" class="">On 2020-04-18 21:25, Ray wrote:</p>
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<div class=""><p class="">When doing the volt drop calculation, be sure to correct for temperature, per the note after table 8, chapter 9 of the NEC. The table values default at 167 deg F (75 C). An underground cable will be operating closer to earth temperature. When I run volt drop for a 4/0 copper cable at 60 deg F, I'm seeing that you could go over 60 amps and maintain a volt drop of 3%. </p><p class="">Not sure what the requirements for the building are, but that exceeds most of my off grid systems. 60+ amps at a final voltage of 232 v is almost 14kW. Is there air conditioning? What are the calculated loads for this building? Is the inspector actually calling this a problem? </p><p class="">I would do a proof of concept: turn every light on in the place, along with some typical appliances (hair dryer, microwave) hit a circular saw to really make the point, with a DMM plugged in. I found long ago that actual measured volt drop was not as bad as Chapter 9 first predicts.</p><p class=""><br class=""></p>
<pre class="">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="">On 4/18/20 3:41 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:large" class="">Hi Mac, There are a few questions like is it Al or Cu wire, What makes it unusable? </div>
<div style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:large" class="">for Voltage drop, I use Vd=2KIL/CMA for your case the unknown is the current. The installation of an inverter with grid support. Many inverters have this, you want a multimode inverter such as a Schneider, Outback, SolArk and I could name at least 4 more. A normal house will run on 30 amps. So assume 30 amps, Vd=2x21.6x30x1100/211600 =6.7 volts</div>
<div style="font-family:"times new roman",serif;font-size:large" class="">So if the main house is at 240 Volts the remote house is at 233 Volts. The multimode inverter could be set at grid support beyond 30 Amps. For higher house loads the inverter can support up to 30 to 50 amps additional. (SolArk is 50 amp) I would add a balancing transformer at the end of the line to make the 120 loads balance. (an Autotransformer) such that 120 volts loads are balanced and the load is shared between 240-Volt conductors. Based on my customers' experiences I would use AGM LA batteries, as I expect low usage of the battery and quick recharge, but that is the customer's choice. I had one customer that had 10 years on the float-AGM battery set. </div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="">On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:15 AM Mac Lewis <<a href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="">Hi wrenches,
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<div class="">I've got a architect client with a sub-optimal power situation on one of the projects he is working on. I'm running through a couple of scenarios that may work. Its a ADU (accessory dwelling unit) that is about 1100' from power. The farmer had taken it upon himself to bury some 4/0 a few years ago to run power out there. Voltage drop is the big issue and its not going to pass the AHJ inspection. We could just ditch the grid and go off-grid, but it seems like a shame to not tap into the grid resource. Instead of dealing with the voltage drop, I was thinking it may make sense to rectify that low AC voltage input and parallel a smallish battery bank (size is yet to be determined), then use an off-grid inverter to serve the loads at good voltage.</div>
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<div class="">I am looking for feedback on this concept. What do you think?</div>
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<div class="">Also, are there any recommendations for good quality rectifiers with wide input voltage window? </div>
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<div class="">Thanks in advance for your help</div>
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Mac Lewis<br class=""><br class=""><p align="left" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size:small" class=""><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)" class=""><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif" class="">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:rgb(104,104,104)" class=""><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif" class="">-Sócrates</span></span></span></span></span></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div>Mac Lewis<br class=""><br class=""><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: inherit; color: rgb(255, 153, 0);" class=""><b class=""><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><p align="left" class=""><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:small" class=""><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)" class=""><font face="'times new roman', serif" class="">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)" class=""><font face="'times new roman', serif" class="">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p></font></b></span></div>
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