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    Ray,<br>

    <br>

    I agree it is a kludgey way to accomplish a low battery cut off.

    But, it doesn't change the no load draw issue. No load draw is still

    a problem even if the normal low battery cut off adjustment has

    enough range. At least with most lithium batteries there is a

    secondary shutoff.<br>

    <br>

    Kent Osterberg<br>

    Blue Mountain Solar<br>

    <br>

    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/23/2020 9:13 AM, Ray wrote:<br>

    </div>

    <blockquote type="cite"

      cite="mid:708269a5-5576-fe72-6c4d-7d113725c2b9@solarray.com">

      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">

      <p>That was our kludgey plan, if Schneider can't do a firmware

        update.  The issue I have with that, is the no load draw of the

        inverter is still 25 watts, so eventually it could still pull

        the batteries into full shutdown.  <br>

      </p>

      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters

Remote Solar

303 505-8760</pre>

      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/23/20 10:30 AM, Kent Osterberg

        wrote:<br>

      </div>

      <blockquote type="cite"

        cite="mid:6ecef69f-9877-7784-b61c-f2606f75a575@coveoregon.com">

        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;

          charset=UTF-8">

        I like that approach, Jay. Great idea. It gets the job done and

        is self contained - using only the features of the inverter. The

        remote power off could still be used with another remote switch.

        If there aren't enough aux output ports in the system, one could

        add a Morningstar relay driver.<br>

        <br>

        None-the-less, considering that Scneider Electric has made a lot

        of firmware changes to make the inverter compatible with lithium

        batteries, it is baffling that the low battery cutout hasn't

        been addressed.<br>

        <br>

        Kent Osterberg<br>

        Blue Mountain Solar<br>

        <br>

        <br>

        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/22/2020 6:18 PM, Jay wrote:<br>

        </div>

        <blockquote type="cite"

          cite="mid:5C0B58E2-B138-43B3-8170-08B157787F0E@gmail.com">

          <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;

            charset=UTF-8">

          <div dir="ltr">Hi Kent,</div>

          <div dir="ltr"><br>

          </div>

          <div dir="ltr">Yes that\u2019s what I mean. </div>

          <div dir="ltr"><br>

          </div>

          <div dir="ltr">According to the manual I\u2019ve got, up to 52v for

            the low, 64 for the high. </div>

          <div dir="ltr">Which is high enough to do what the simpliphi

            needs. </div>

          <div dir="ltr"><br>

          </div>

          <div dir="ltr">Jay</div>

          <div dir="ltr"><br>

          </div>

          <div dir="ltr"><br>

          </div>

          <div dir="ltr"><br>

            <blockquote type="cite">On Mar 22, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Kent

              Osterberg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                href="mailto:kent@coveoregon.com" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;kent@coveoregon.com&gt;</a>

              wrote:<br>

              <br>

            </blockquote>

          </div>

          <blockquote type="cite">

            <div dir="ltr">\ufeff

              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;

                charset=UTF-8">

              Jay,<br>

              <br>

              Do you mean: use the Aux relay to activate the Remote

              Power Off? What is the low battery setting range for the

              Aux relay? I don't see it in the manual. <br>

              <br>

              Kent Osterberg<br>

              Blue Mountain Solar<br>

              <br>

              <br>

              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/22/2020 4:04 PM, Jay

                wrote:<br>

              </div>

              <blockquote type="cite"

                cite="mid:425C4E8F-4B92-4C2B-9B38-DC8D58CFAEC2@gmail.com">

                <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;

                  charset=UTF-8">

                <div dir="ltr">Ray, </div>

                <div dir="ltr">Have you heard bought about using the Aux

                  relay to control the AC output at what ever voltage

                  you want?</div>

                <div dir="ltr"><br>

                </div>

                <div dir="ltr">Jay</div>

                <div dir="ltr"><br>

                </div>

                <div dir="ltr"><br>

                </div>

                <div dir="ltr"><br>

                </div>

                <div dir="ltr"><br>

                  <blockquote type="cite">On Mar 22, 2020, at 3:13 PM,

                    Ray <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                      href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"

                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;ray@solarray.com&gt;</a>

                    wrote:<br>

                    <br>

                  </blockquote>

                </div>

                <blockquote type="cite">

                  <div dir="ltr">\ufeff

                    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;

                      charset=UTF-8">

                    <p>That's the whole point: we need the LBCO to be

                      higher than 48v to catch the beginning of that

                      steep drop off, so that there is still enough

                      reserve left to keep the monitoring and solar

                      charge controllers in operation, and avoid the

                      dreaded dark start.  With Simpliphi, we don't have

                      the dark start, but it still requires manual

                      reset.   This isn't theoretical, we have been

                      having serious trouble with a system because of

                      Schneider's inability to set the LVD above 48 v. 

                      Also setting the voltage higher (lower DOD)

                      extends the cycle life of these batteries. 

                      Otherwise, I love the stable 51 volts of Li+, even

                      under load.  <br>

                    </p>

                    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters

Remote Solar

303 505-8760</pre>

                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/22/20 4:15 PM,

                      Jerry Shafer wrote:<br>

                    </div>

                    <blockquote type="cite"

cite="mid:CAMUFgmXxjRX1rXZ86RhRJjawhuoD0pO1uf0h7v-1Em_T92F_2g@mail.gmail.com">

                      <meta http-equiv="content-type"

                        content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">

                      <div dir="auto">Wrenches

                        <div dir="auto">Don't let the LBCU scare you as

                          this battery has such a flat SOC line that

                          when it falls off there is not much left in

                          the tank. In addition set the flex net to low

                          SOC at 15% and critical to 10%.</div>

                      </div>

                      <br>

                      <div class="gmail_quote">

                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar

                          22, 2020, 12:15 PM Sindelar Solar &lt;<a

                            href="mailto:Allan@sindelarsolar.com"

                            target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"

                            moz-do-not-send="true">Allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>&gt;

                          wrote:<br>

                        </div>

                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0

                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc

                          solid;padding-left:1ex">

                          <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">

                            <p>Specifically with Blue Ion, the

                              installation manual recommends 48V as

                              LBCO, but also recommends setting it a bit

                              higher:</p>

                            <p>"Recommended Low Voltage Disconnect

                              Setting: 48 VDC (~2-10% State of Charge)<br>

                              BMU will power down the Blue Ion 2.0

                              cabinet at 44 VDC (&lt;1% State of Charge)<br>

                              Based on system discharge patterns, SoC

                              and voltage correlations will vary.<br>

                              We recommend you err on the side of

                              caution with a higher LVD setting and

                              adjust as necessary.<br>

                              To prevent a dark start event, we

                              recommend leaving a little reserve \u201cfuel

                              in the tank\u201d."</p>

                            <p>I have used 48VDC with success, and had

                              one system indeed shut down at 44V,

                              leaving 1% left to reboot.<br>

                            </p>

                            <p>Allan<br>

                            </p>

                            <div>On 3/22/2020 12:44 PM, Ray wrote:<br>

                            </div>

                            <blockquote type="cite">

                              <p>Blue Ion, and Simpliphi that I know of.<br>

                              </p>

                              <pre cols="72">Ray Walters

Remote Solar

303 505-8760</pre>

                              <div>On 3/21/20 2:48 PM, Dave Angelini

                                Offgrid Solar wrote:<br>

                              </div>

                              <blockquote type="cite">

                                <p>I see what you mean Ray. Sorry I

                                  misread your mail. There are not too

                                  many batteries out there that need

                                  LBCO above 48V. Which ones are you

                                  talking about please?</p>

                                <p><strong><span style="font-size:small">Dave

                                      Angelini Offgrid Solar</span></strong></p>

                                <div>

                                  <pre><strong><span style="font-size:small">"we go where powerlines don't"

<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>

e-mail  <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>

text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>

                                </div>

                                <p>On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 11:18:21 -0700,

                                  Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <a

                                    href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net"

                                    rel="noreferrer noreferrer"

                                    target="_blank"

                                    moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;offgridsolar@sti.net&gt;</a>

                                  wrote:</p>

                                <blockquote type="cite"

                                  style="padding-left:5px;border-left:#1010ff

                                  2px solid;margin-left:5px;width:100%">

                                  <p>Hi Ray,</p>

                                  <p>Which XW? There are 3 now. The old

                                    graybox XW defaults at 44V LBCO and

                                    the range is 40 to 48V. There also

                                    was firmware back in its day that

                                    got older units updated. Schneider

                                    still has the firmware under

                                    discontinued products.</p>

                                  <p>XW+ is default 44V and adjustable

                                    36 to 44 vdc.</p>

                                  <p>XW pro is running downstairs and I

                                    will take a look. It would be my

                                    guess that it is the same as XW+. I

                                    think one needs to be sure they are

                                    in Advanced settings to tweak LBCO

                                    also.</p>

                                  <p>I am not plugging Schneider and

                                    have done work for both Outback and

                                    Schneider as well as my clients.

                                    Hope this helps. </p>

                                  <div>

                                    <pre><strong><span style="font-size:small">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>

e-mail  <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>

text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>

                                  </div>

                                  <p>On Sat, 21 Mar 2020 11:46:21 -0400,

                                    Ray <a

                                      href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"

                                      rel="noreferrer noreferrer"

                                      target="_blank"

                                      moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;ray@solarray.com&gt;</a>

                                    wrote:</p>

                                  <blockquote

                                    style="padding-left:5px;border-left:#1010ff

                                    2px

                                    solid;margin-left:5px;width:100%">

                                    <p>We've been having good luck with

                                      SImpliphi, the pricing has

                                      recently gotten much more

                                      competitive.  As it's names

                                      states, its simple.  Each 3.8 kWh

                                      unit has an 80 amp breaker built

                                      into the top, weigh about 75 lbs,

                                      and are a bit smaller than an L16

                                      but with carry handles.  We use an

                                      insulated 2 pole combiner block to

                                      run all the parallel conductors to

                                      the main 2/0 cable.  No

                                      monitoring, but they do have an

                                      handy setup guide with recommended

                                      settings, specific for each

                                      manufacturer (including Outback). </p>

                                    <p>Note to all:  Schneider XW can

                                      still not set its LVD above 48,

                                      which basically makes it

                                      incompatible with most Li+

                                      batteries.  Their tech support has

                                      been abysmal as well.   We're

                                      looking forward to them as one of

                                      the larger companies in the

                                      business, to put additional

                                      resources into their engineering,

                                      and come out with at least a

                                      firmware update to correct this

                                      problem.  </p>

                                    <pre>Ray Walters

Remote Solar

303 505-8760</pre>

                                    <div>On 3/20/20 3:59 PM, David Katz

                                      wrote:</div>

                                    <blockquote

                                      style="padding-left:5px;border-left:#1010ff

                                      2px

                                      solid;margin-left:5px;width:100%">

                                      <div dir="ltr">

                                        <div class="gmail_default"

                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hello

                                          Wrenches,</div>

                                        <div class="gmail_default"

                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I

                                          am working with some people

                                          that want to use a 20 kw-hour

                                          to 30 kw-hour 48 volt

                                          lithium-ion battery with an

                                          Outback Radian and Outback FM

                                          charge controllers.</div>

                                        <div class="gmail_default"

                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">They

                                          are considering using

                                          Discover, Blue-Ion, Battle

                                          Born or SimpliPhi batteries.</div>

                                        <div class="gmail_default"

                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Does

                                          any one have any

                                          recommendations of which

                                          battery functions best with

                                          the Outback system.</div>

                                        <div class="gmail_default"

                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thanks,</div>

                                        <div class="gmail_default"

                                          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">David

                                          Katz</div>

                                      </div>

                                      <br>

                                      <fieldset></fieldset>

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