<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr">Hi William</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">3 questions</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Did this system used to work?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The surging is happening even with no loads, just battery charging?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Lastly, did you find a charging/ ac amp size that stopped the surging? With 30 amps it\u2019s still charging full rate, if you set it down further does it stop?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jay</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Peltz Power. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:20 AM, William Miller <william@millersolar.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">\ufeff<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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--></style><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Mac:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I know well what the AC input mode is. This is the project that had the excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f). Here is a <a href="https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/25_GFI%20Tripping/GFI_Tripping.html">link</a> to the case study.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to Backup. After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations in the generator output. At one point we saw generator power range from 19kW to 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid. We tried lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians and switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped. Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case study.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So we can\u2019t use Generator because of THD, and we can\u2019t use Backup (or Support or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL. This should be a rock-solid match to a 24 kW Radian system.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Like I said, we tried lots of things. What stopped the surging was to open the AC input breaker to Inverter 1. It did not help to open the input to Inverters 2 or 3. I don\u2019t have a clue as to why this is so\u2026</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to Master and Inverter 3 to Slave 1. The generator still surged. So if anyone started to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be. We tripled checked this when chasing the THD problems. We also adjusted input AC from 30 to 50 (per port), no improvement.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these problems out. I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer. We are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and see if any other ideas come to us.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks everyone for the input. More soon.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William Miller</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mac Lewis<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi William,</p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Do you know what your AC input mode is? </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I'd try playing with this mode. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator", "support". You may quickly see a difference. There is a small diode symbol that shows up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging. I don't fully understand what that means but I know that it can affect how a generator works with the Radian.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator responds.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">What type of generator? Whats your AC input limits?</p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer <<a href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal">Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens</p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jerry</p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" target="_blank">william@millersolar.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Friends:</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up. The problem is when the generator is running, it surges. Voltage and power go up and down. We connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging. This makes me think the problem is in the Radian system.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Has anyone else experienced this?</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks in advance for any input.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">William Miller</p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Mac Lewis<b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ff9900"></span></b></p><p><span style="color:#305a78">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </span><b><span style="color:#686868">-Sócrates</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#ff9900"></span></b></p></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br><span></span><br><span>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</span><br><span></span><br><span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br><span>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br><span>www.members.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>