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</head><body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span>Yes LFP - the grid
is only on a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening and
even that is not reliable. Diesel is to be avoided as much as possible
as diesel prices are volatile now that Venezuela is closing the tap and
local maintenance is iffy. So I'm looking at buffering with as many
batteries as financing will allow. So PS and battery need to be sized
above power consumption. It's a small hospital so consumption varies
quite a bit daily - the more they have the more they use and can serve.
Solar roof space is limited to about 16 KW - so grid opportunity
charging could make all the difference for them. We are in the 24 KW (5
sec) peak, 8 KW typical, 60-100 KWHrs/day range. Doing more data
logging to pin that down more. Thanks for your input!<br>
<br>
Jeff Clearwater<br>
Village Power Design<br>
<br>
Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote on 3/16/20 10:05 AM:</span><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:BC49F76B-E578-46AC-9FBA-EF56CF93824E@starlightsolar.com"
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Did you mean to say LFP? It depends on who made the battery. LFP
batteries can be charged using CC/CV. Some, like the Elite PS/GBS
battery packages can accept a simple CV power supply of 3.65 Vpc.
<div class=""><br class=""></div>
<div class="">The inverter is always on and isolated from the grid so
it\u2019s not affected by poor power quality unless you allow ripple or
spikes to the battery system. That should be protected at the AC input
of your charger/PS and PS filtering. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div
class="">What is the daily power consumption? If the battery and PS are
sized to meet your loads, then it won\u2019t matter when the grid is
available. Grid Outages longer than you design for can be backed up with
a generator. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div
class=""><div class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
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none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
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class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
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class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Larry Crutcher</span><br
style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><span style="orphans: 2;
widows: 2;" class="">Starlight Solar Power Systems</span><br class=""></div></div></div><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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<br class=""><div><div class="">On Mar 13, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Jeff
Clearwater <<a href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>> wrote:</div><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><span class="">Thanks
All,<br class="">
<br class="">
Mick and Tump - I'll look into the Victron - good suggestion - Thanks!<br
class="">
<br class="">
Chris - I'm not sure a transformer will buffer the spikes and frequency
but just pass them on - others?<br class="">
<br class="">
Larry and Jerry - If I were to go with the separate battery charger/PS
approach - what specific 48 V LFeP battery Charger/PS might you
recommend
and how to protect it with what sort of surge and LV equipment? If
either the inverter or PS/Charger is protected within too narrow a range
then it might defeat the purpose - wanting to maximize pulling in as
much opportunity charging as we can get.<br class="">
<br class="">
Seems to me like there might be a market for a highly tolerant battery
charger between 160-260 VAC and frequency tolerant as well - something
bulletproof we could put on these systems - perhaps that is the Victron -
but I'd rather have it in a separate beefy battery charger then risk
the inverters - especially if we are going to buffer the customer from
the grid with the battery/inverter system.<br class="">
<br class="">
For instance we have a hospital that can only use the available grid for
the office but they can't risk it for their hospital equipment. But If
I could pull the grid into batteries safely and always power their
loads with the high reliability battery/inverter system - now we are
talking.<br class="">
<br class="">
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">So specific 48V battery
chargers that
can take it? Any equipment out there anyone is aware of?</span><br
class="">
<br class="">
Thanks!<br class="">
<br class="">
Jeff</span><br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="">Tump wrote on 3/13/20 2:47 PM:</span><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:7AD19D08-D0DC-4BAE-AAEC-38202CA63F49@swnl.net"
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http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
class="">
Check out the Victron line of Chargers as well as the inverter charger
units. AC in 187-265 45-65 Hz. for the inverters 230V/50Hz, inverter.
<div class="">Please feel free to e mail me 4 additional info. Great
BT support / internet access. well thought out product.<br class=""><div
class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 13,
2020, at 5:11 PM, Jerry
Shafer <<a href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Jeff<div
dir="auto" class="">I have been there too in most cases we have
programmed in the VAC max/mins with tighter setting so as the grid
starts to go we just disconnect. I did just do a charger instead of the
inverter because the grid was generally low on frequency but the charger
just charged and l see it on optics when that happens</div><div
dir="auto" class="">Jerry</div></div><br class=""><div
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 13,
2020, 12:03 PM Jeff Clearwater <<a
href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>> wrote:<br
class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,<br class="">
<br class="">
So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid is
super unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.<br class="">
<br class="">
So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7 PM each
day but often browns-out during those hours and comes on and off during
those hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180 periodically or go
above 260 in spikes.<br class="">
<br class="">
The present practice in many of these situations is for battery based
system designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system in parallel
to the mains but not relying on them - so the grid AC IN is not
connected. They just install a transfer switch and manually switch or
they wire a critical loads panel to the solar.<br class="">
<br class="">
This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the battery
inverter and protects it from burning out trying to handle the grid.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="">MY QUESTION:</span><br
class="">
<br class="">
I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for
opportunity charging of the batteries while at the same time not
subjecting our nice new battery inverters to constant brown-out tripping
and possibly long term damage.<br class="">
<br class="">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="">So question #1 </span>- Is
anyone
using existing battery inverters but succesfully navigating such a grid
variablity settings such that you are able to take advantage of the grid
even if browning out often?<br class="">
<br class="">
<span style="font-weight:bold" class="">or question #2</span> - Can we
add
some sort of high Voltage and Frequency tolerant battery charger to the
system - keep the battery inverter/charger off grid - but charge the
batteries from something able to handle the wonky grid without
constantly nuisance charging or burning itself up?<br class="">
<br class="">
Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!<br class="">
<br class="">
Best,<br class="">
<br class="">
Jeff<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">-- <br class=""><span class="">~~~~~~~~~~~<br class="">
</span>
<div class="">
<span class="">Jeff Clearwater</span><span class=""><span class=""><br
class="">
</span>Village Power Design<br class="">
</span><span class=""><span class=""><span class=""><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">linkedin</a>
</span></span></span><br class="">
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href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com/" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a></span><br
class="">
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class=""></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br><span>~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
</span>
<div class="moz-signature">
<span>Jeff Clearwater</span><span><span><br>
</span>Village Power Design<br>
</span><span><span><span><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/">linkedin</a>
</span></span></span><br>
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