<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
Jay,<br>
<br>
My point is that even if the diversion load can handle all of the
watts and the PLC is fast enough to react to changes in the ac
voltage, the system will probably still be unstable because the
battery charger is in the control loop.<br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
Blue Mountain Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/4/2020 9:25 AM, Jay wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B10DE151-3755-4977-B96E-06BF17D13B5A@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Kent,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Johns diversion load/controller would take have to
take care of watts and ac voltage parameters. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 4, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Kent
Osterberg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kent@coveoregon.com"><kent@coveoregon.com></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
If using an ac battery charger to get power around the
inverter to the batteries it would have to be rated for the
full power of the PV array. Otherwise, you couldn't divert the
full power of the array on the dc side. For a 24-volt battery,
it would require a battery charger rated for over 80 amps.
That alone seems risky with a 100Ah battery. To add to the
difficulty of this approach the battery charger would add a
delay time in the control loop that would almost certainly
result in an unstable system. <br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/3/2020 7:53 PM, Jay wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DCB3538C-E68F-406E-B8AA-AEE8971EB597@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Or a charger such as Iota, or power max. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr">Peltz power. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:24 PM, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">don@energysolarnow.com</a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff<span style="font-family:Verdana;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt;">
<div>You wrote that you would connect the Exeltech to
just one of the service phases. </div>
<div>But most GT inverters are 240 and require both
phases. Is yours different? You did not mention
which model it is. </div>
<div>Also, as Kent Osterberg mentioned, the Exeltech
will not charge its batteries from the AC output. </div>
<div>Your scheme with the PLC controlling an SCR
leaves unaddressed how any charge current gets
directed into the batteries to allegedly raise their
voltage. Is there a charger somewhere in this
scheme?<br>
</div>
<div>You still need some way to charge batteries from
solar. How about connecting a charge controller to
some of the solar panels?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Don Barch</div>
<div>Energy Solar<br>
</div>
<blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1"
style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left:
8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black;
font-family:verdana;">
<div id="wmQuoteWrapper"> -------- Original Message
--------<br>
Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 13, Issue 59<br>
From: <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-request@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
Date: Sun, March 01, 2020 2:19 pm<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (Mark
Frye)<br>
2. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this...
(frenergy)<br>
3. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this...
(Kent Osterberg)<br>
4. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this...
(Jerry Shafer)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 15:27:32 -0800<br>
From: Mark Frye <<a
href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen
if I do this...<br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:93731c38-40b5-7c63-1d74-a879fbdd9d74@berkeleysolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">93731c38-40b5-7c63-1d74-a879fbdd9d74@berkeleysolar.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8;
format=flowed<br>
<br>
I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
<br>
Suppose I:<br>
<br>
- Open the main breaker to disconnect from the
grid<br>
<br>
- I open the PV breaker<br>
<br>
- I connect a small good quality inverter like an
Exeltech XP 500 to one <br>
of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
<br>
- I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on
the inverter<br>
<br>
OK so far, I could run some small loads for a
relatively short period of <br>
time before the batteries get low<br>
<br>
-I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On
the input I measure the <br>
battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR.
The SCR controls a 2kw <br>
immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of water.
The PLC has a scan <br>
time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the duty
cycle of the SCR as <br>
voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC.<br>
<br>
OK so far nothing has really changed from above.<br>
<br>
- I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the
battery inverter, <br>
sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
<br>
Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my
existing GT PV with <br>
the balance of energy dumped as needed to the
immersion heater.<br>
<br>
Right?<br>
<br>
Mark Frye<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 06:26:27 -0800<br>
From: frenergy <<a
href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">frenergy@psln.com</a>><br>
To: <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould
happen if I do this...<br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:c97234cd-4441-34d7-740c-51f07837b081@psln.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">c97234cd-4441-34d7-740c-51f07837b081@psln.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8;
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<br>
Mark,<br>
<br>
??? ??? ??? OR, you change-out your inverter to an
SMA with Secure <br>
Power Supply and during grid power outage, while
there is some sun on <br>
the panels, you would have up to 2KW of 120VAC
power on the SPS circuit <br>
by just flipping a switch. We usually install a 4X
outdoor box with a <br>
120 VAC outlet ganged with a switch right under
the inverter and let the <br>
customer run the power to the : frig, lights,
battery charger, TV or <br>
whatever during an outage, though some romex could
be run to close to <br>
the frig.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
Feather River Solar Electric<br>
Bill Battagin, Owner<br>
4291 Nelson St.<br>
Taylorsville, CA 95983<br>
530.284.7849<br>
CA Lic 874049<br>
<a href="http://www.frenergy.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.frenergy.net</a><br>
<br>
On 2/29/2020 3:27 PM, Mark Frye wrote:<br>
> I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
><br>
> Suppose I:<br>
><br>
> - Open the main breaker to disconnect from
the grid<br>
><br>
> - I open the PV breaker<br>
><br>
> - I connect a small good quality inverter
like an Exeltech XP 500 to <br>
> one of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
><br>
> - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24
VDC on the inverter<br>
><br>
> OK so far, I could run some small loads for a
relatively short period <br>
> of time before the batteries get low<br>
><br>
> -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output.
On the input I measure <br>
> the battery voltage, on the output I control
a SCR. The SCR controls a <br>
> 2kw immersion heater sitting in a big bucket
of water. The PLC has a <br>
> scan time of 2 mS and I program it to
increase the duty cycle of the <br>
> SCR as voltage of the battery rises above 24
VDC.<br>
><br>
> OK so far nothing has really changed from
above.<br>
><br>
> - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters
see the battery inverter, <br>
> sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
><br>
> Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw
with my existing GT PV with <br>
> the balance of energy dumped as needed to the
immersion heater.<br>
><br>
> Right?<br>
><br>
> Mark Frye<br>
><br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 08:58:45 -0800<br>
From: Kent Osterberg <<a
href="mailto:kent@coveoregon.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">kent@coveoregon.com</a>><br>
To: <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould
happen if I do this...<br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:9e32901e-c5d4-ff70-9c44-406cc6d48d50@coveoregon.com"
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<br>
Mark,<br>
<br>
I believe that your plan would fail because you
are forcing power to <br>
flow through the XP inverter backwards to charge
the batteries. I don't <br>
believe the XP inverter can do that. The grid tied
inverter would <br>
probably connect then immediately shut down, or
connect and immediately <br>
ruin the XP inverter. It would work if you had a
inverter with a <br>
bidirectional architecture like a Magnum, Outback,
or Schneider <br>
inverter. But even then you'd have a hazardous
situation because the <br>
cooling water is going to evaporate.<br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
Blue Mountain Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/29/2020 3:27 PM, Mark Frye wrote:<br>
> I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
><br>
> Suppose I:<br>
><br>
> - Open the main breaker to disconnect from
the grid<br>
><br>
> - I open the PV breaker<br>
><br>
> - I connect a small good quality inverter
like an Exeltech XP 500 to <br>
> one of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
><br>
> - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24
VDC on the inverter<br>
><br>
> OK so far, I could run some small loads for a
relatively short period <br>
> of time before the batteries get low<br>
><br>
> -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output.
On the input I measure <br>
> the battery voltage, on the output I control
a SCR. The SCR controls a <br>
> 2kw immersion heater sitting in a big bucket
of water. The PLC has a <br>
> scan time of 2 mS and I program it to
increase the duty cycle of the <br>
> SCR as voltage of the battery rises above 24
VDC.<br>
><br>
> OK so far nothing has really changed from
above.<br>
><br>
> - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters
see the battery inverter, <br>
> sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
><br>
> Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw
with my existing GT PV with <br>
> the balance of energy dumped as needed to the
immersion heater.<br>
><br>
> Right?<br>
><br>
> Mark Frye<br>
><br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
><br>
> List Address: <a
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 07:31:36 -1000<br>
From: Jerry Shafer <<a
href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a
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moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould
happen if I do this...<br>
Message-ID:<br>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Mark<br>
What you are saying is to AC couple but most
likely this would fail as your<br>
battery fills not enough loads HBCO or to much
loads and your battery does<br>
a LBCO, either way you would be better off
spending the money in a maybe a<br>
Outback Skybox easy install and is high voltage PV
input and even a small<br>
48 volt bank but think about storage<br>
Jerry<br>
<br>
On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 1:27 PM Mark Frye <<a
href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
><br>
> Suppose I:<br>
><br>
> - Open the main breaker to disconnect from
the grid<br>
><br>
> - I open the PV breaker<br>
><br>
> - I connect a small good quality inverter
like an Exeltech XP 500 to one<br>
> of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
><br>
> - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24
VDC on the inverter<br>
><br>
> OK so far, I could run some small loads for a
relatively short period of<br>
> time before the batteries get low<br>
><br>
> -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output.
On the input I measure the<br>
> battery voltage, on the output I control a
SCR. The SCR controls a 2kw<br>
> immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of
water. The PLC has a scan<br>
> time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the
duty cycle of the SCR as<br>
> voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC.<br>
><br>
> OK so far nothing has really changed from
above.<br>
><br>
> - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters
see the battery inverter,<br>
> sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
><br>
> Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw
with my existing GT PV with<br>
> the balance of energy dumped as needed to the
immersion heater.<br>
><br>
> Right?<br>
><br>
> Mark Frye<br>
><br>
>
_______________________________________________<br>
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
><br>
> List Address: <a
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</div>
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</span> <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
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List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
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Check out or update participant bios:
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</pre>
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<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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