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If using an ac battery charger to get power around the inverter to
the batteries it would have to be rated for the full power of the PV
array. Otherwise, you couldn't divert the full power of the array on
the dc side. For a 24-volt battery, it would require a battery
charger rated for over 80 amps. That alone seems risky with a 100Ah
battery. To add to the difficulty of this approach the battery
charger would add a delay time in the control loop that would almost
certainly result in an unstable system. <br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/3/2020 7:53 PM, Jay wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DCB3538C-E68F-406E-B8AA-AEE8971EB597@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Or a charger such as Iota, or power max. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Jay</div>
<div dir="ltr">Peltz power. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:24 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:don@energysolarnow.com">don@energysolarnow.com</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">\ufeff<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000;
font-size:10pt;">
<div>You wrote that you would connect the Exeltech to just
one of the service phases. </div>
<div>But most GT inverters are 240 and require both phases.
Is yours different? You did not mention which model it
is. </div>
<div>Also, as Kent Osterberg mentioned, the Exeltech will
not charge its batteries from the AC output. </div>
<div>Your scheme with the PLC controlling an SCR leaves
unaddressed how any charge current gets directed into the
batteries to allegedly raise their voltage. Is there a
charger somewhere in this scheme?<br>
</div>
<div>You still need some way to charge batteries from solar.
How about connecting a charge controller to some of the
solar panels?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Don Barch</div>
<div>Energy Solar<br>
</div>
<blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1"
style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px;
padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black;
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 13, Issue 59<br>
From: <a
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (Mark Frye)<br>
2. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this...
(frenergy)<br>
3. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (Kent
Osterberg)<br>
4. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (Jerry
Shafer)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 15:27:32 -0800<br>
From: Mark Frye <<a
href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if I do
this...<br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:93731c38-40b5-7c63-1d74-a879fbdd9d74@berkeleysolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">93731c38-40b5-7c63-1d74-a879fbdd9d74@berkeleysolar.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
<br>
Suppose I:<br>
<br>
- Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid<br>
<br>
- I open the PV breaker<br>
<br>
- I connect a small good quality inverter like an
Exeltech XP 500 to one <br>
of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
<br>
- I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on the
inverter<br>
<br>
OK so far, I could run some small loads for a relatively
short period of <br>
time before the batteries get low<br>
<br>
-I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On the
input I measure the <br>
battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR. The SCR
controls a 2kw <br>
immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of water. The
PLC has a scan <br>
time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the duty cycle
of the SCR as <br>
voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC.<br>
<br>
OK so far nothing has really changed from above.<br>
<br>
- I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the
battery inverter, <br>
sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
<br>
Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my
existing GT PV with <br>
the balance of energy dumped as needed to the immersion
heater.<br>
<br>
Right?<br>
<br>
Mark Frye<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 06:26:27 -0800<br>
From: frenergy <<a href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">frenergy@psln.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if
I do this...<br>
Message-ID: <<a
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<br>
Mark,<br>
<br>
??? ??? ??? OR, you change-out your inverter to an SMA
with Secure <br>
Power Supply and during grid power outage, while there
is some sun on <br>
the panels, you would have up to 2KW of 120VAC power on
the SPS circuit <br>
by just flipping a switch. We usually install a 4X
outdoor box with a <br>
120 VAC outlet ganged with a switch right under the
inverter and let the <br>
customer run the power to the : frig, lights, battery
charger, TV or <br>
whatever during an outage, though some romex could be
run to close to <br>
the frig.<br>
<br>
Bill<br>
<br>
Feather River Solar Electric<br>
Bill Battagin, Owner<br>
4291 Nelson St.<br>
Taylorsville, CA 95983<br>
530.284.7849<br>
CA Lic 874049<br>
<a href="http://www.frenergy.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.frenergy.net</a><br>
<br>
On 2/29/2020 3:27 PM, Mark Frye wrote:<br>
> I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
><br>
> Suppose I:<br>
><br>
> - Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid<br>
><br>
> - I open the PV breaker<br>
><br>
> - I connect a small good quality inverter like an
Exeltech XP 500 to <br>
> one of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
><br>
> - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on
the inverter<br>
><br>
> OK so far, I could run some small loads for a
relatively short period <br>
> of time before the batteries get low<br>
><br>
> -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On
the input I measure <br>
> the battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR.
The SCR controls a <br>
> 2kw immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of
water. The PLC has a <br>
> scan time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the
duty cycle of the <br>
> SCR as voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC.<br>
><br>
> OK so far nothing has really changed from above.<br>
><br>
> - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the
battery inverter, <br>
> sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
><br>
> Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my
existing GT PV with <br>
> the balance of energy dumped as needed to the
immersion heater.<br>
><br>
> Right?<br>
><br>
> Mark Frye<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 08:58:45 -0800<br>
From: Kent Osterberg <<a
href="mailto:kent@coveoregon.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">kent@coveoregon.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
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Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if
I do this...<br>
Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:9e32901e-c5d4-ff70-9c44-406cc6d48d50@coveoregon.com"
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<br>
Mark,<br>
<br>
I believe that your plan would fail because you are
forcing power to <br>
flow through the XP inverter backwards to charge the
batteries. I don't <br>
believe the XP inverter can do that. The grid tied
inverter would <br>
probably connect then immediately shut down, or connect
and immediately <br>
ruin the XP inverter. It would work if you had a
inverter with a <br>
bidirectional architecture like a Magnum, Outback, or
Schneider <br>
inverter. But even then you'd have a hazardous situation
because the <br>
cooling water is going to evaporate.<br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
Blue Mountain Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/29/2020 3:27 PM, Mark Frye wrote:<br>
> I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
><br>
> Suppose I:<br>
><br>
> - Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid<br>
><br>
> - I open the PV breaker<br>
><br>
> - I connect a small good quality inverter like an
Exeltech XP 500 to <br>
> one of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
><br>
> - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on
the inverter<br>
><br>
> OK so far, I could run some small loads for a
relatively short period <br>
> of time before the batteries get low<br>
><br>
> -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On
the input I measure <br>
> the battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR.
The SCR controls a <br>
> 2kw immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of
water. The PLC has a <br>
> scan time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the
duty cycle of the <br>
> SCR as voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC.<br>
><br>
> OK so far nothing has really changed from above.<br>
><br>
> - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the
battery inverter, <br>
> sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
><br>
> Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my
existing GT PV with <br>
> the balance of energy dumped as needed to the
immersion heater.<br>
><br>
> Right?<br>
><br>
> Mark Frye<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 07:31:36 -1000<br>
From: Jerry Shafer <<a
href="mailto:jerrysgarage01@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jerrysgarage01@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a
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Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if
I do this...<br>
Message-ID:<br>
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<br>
Mark<br>
What you are saying is to AC couple but most likely this
would fail as your<br>
battery fills not enough loads HBCO or to much loads and
your battery does<br>
a LBCO, either way you would be better off spending the
money in a maybe a<br>
Outback Skybox easy install and is high voltage PV input
and even a small<br>
48 volt bank but think about storage<br>
Jerry<br>
<br>
On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 1:27 PM Mark Frye <<a
href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house.<br>
><br>
> Suppose I:<br>
><br>
> - Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid<br>
><br>
> - I open the PV breaker<br>
><br>
> - I connect a small good quality inverter like an
Exeltech XP 500 to one<br>
> of the phases of the service (120 VAC)<br>
><br>
> - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on
the inverter<br>
><br>
> OK so far, I could run some small loads for a
relatively short period of<br>
> time before the batteries get low<br>
><br>
> -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On
the input I measure the<br>
> battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR. The
SCR controls a 2kw<br>
> immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of water.
The PLC has a scan<br>
> time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the duty
cycle of the SCR as<br>
> voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC.<br>
><br>
> OK so far nothing has really changed from above.<br>
><br>
> - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the
battery inverter,<br>
> sync and connect after five minutes.<br>
><br>
> Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my
existing GT PV with<br>
> the balance of energy dumped as needed to the
immersion heater.<br>
><br>
> Right?<br>
><br>
> Mark Frye<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
><br>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
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