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<p>Here's a page I put in my plan sets to make its clear for the
AHJ. I have not had this challenged, and we have never
implemented Rapid Shutdown on a ground mounted array. <br>
</p>
<p><img src="cid:part1.035BE8D4.84FB0E98@solarray.com" alt=""></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/20 2:57 PM, Christopher Warfel
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:adc9f7dd-e30d-6b7d-132e-2336a9f6ab3f@entech-engineering.com">
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<p>This points out the problem of inconsistent interpretation due
in part to conflicting or unclear language. I always like to ask
how many basements have protection around the NM conductors
running through and along the rafters. I know several people on
CMPs are on this listserv. I am hoping that they can add some
clear language, and not leave it to a footnote for implementing
this aspect of the NEC.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/2020 4:42 PM, Ray wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f8d8033e-4520-fad2-a2dc-d84347762fa3@solarray.com">
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<p>It all comes down to where you install the PV disconnect. We
put it on the wall before the conductors enter the building or
at the array, therefore 690 doesn't apply. Proper signage is
required indicating multiple power sources and listing the
locations of their disconnects. <br>
</p>
<p>Also, this isn't just my opinion, many others on the list
have said this, including folks involved in the code writing
process, and the code says this. The fact that your inspector
didn't catch the note on the figure is to be expected, as it
is not out in flashing neon lights. It is however a clear
statement of where 690 stops: at the PV disconnect. <br>
</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this is not further clarified in 2020 from
what I can tell, so we will all continue to suffer inspectors
incorrectly expecting 690.12 on ground mounted systems. I
would politely ask your inspector to review that ruling with
his higher ups. We can't start setting precedents that are
unreasonable and incorrect. The array wiring is already
required to be protected by either height, protective panels
or fencing. <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/20 1:56 PM, Christopher
Warfel wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:e7b0c1d2-c021-d5fb-7688-b20d0a0e2ede@entech-engineering.com">
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<p>Ray, I spent a bit of time today with a person who inspects
for several state renewable energy programs and to
summarize, this person said the opposite of what you said,
and finish saying "seems pretty clear cut". We did review
three sections of 690, and one from 705. I pointed out that
these are not controlled conductors as I interpret them but
they should have been defined. I did not see any earlier
posts regarding this, so I apologize for the redundancy. <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/2020 3:16 PM, Ray wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9d3305f0-5a60-28ee-696b-e292126d8ba4@solarray.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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<p>This has been discussed to death in previous Wrench
strings. Just to cut to the chase:</p>
<p>please review NEC 2017, Figure 690.1(b) Note:(2). <i>The
PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV
system from all other systems.</i><i><br>
</i></p>
<p>The inverter, charge controller, batteries etc are no
longer part of article 690, and are not subject to its
requirements. Look at articles 705, 706, and 480 for
guidance for those <u><i>other systems</i></u>.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72"><i>Ray Walters</i>
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/20 12:55 PM, Dave
Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e89e383931b76e89eeb3aa364eafea8a@127.0.0.1">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi Chris,
A few times and my back-up with a schneider system is their rapid
shutdown. In the end the inspector comes around and realizes there is
little gain for an offgrid ground mounted array for fireman. You do have to
educate them and if they are insistent on being a bonehead, install the RS
for the inspection and then use the box for the next one or sell it.
After almost 30 years offgrid the last thing I want is something that can
fault out the solar or worse when I am away. Networks can be the enemy at
times. Less is more offgrid in my opinion.
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 13:07:53 -0500, Christopher Warfel
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cwarfel@entech-engineering.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><cwarfel@entech-engineering.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I got involved in a long discussion on Rapid Shutdown compliance for
battery multimode, grid interconnect inverters that have a ground
mounted array. At one point, ground mounted array was not supposed to
be subject to Rapid Shutdown unless there were dc conductors on the
building. NEC 2017 seems to say it is if conductors are 3' in or on
buildings. The intent of Rapid Shutdown was supposed to protect fire
fighters from exposure to high dc voltage when the array was on a roof.
Every code cycle it morphs into something a little different. Has
anyone had to confront this situation, and was this type of project
subject to Rapid Shutdown? Thanks in advance for any clarity on this.
Chris
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